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Nothing quite kills the mood at a dinner party[br]like discussions of religion, politics, abortion,

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or veganism. So I thought it would be a bang-up[br]idea if in THIS video, we discuss all four!

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(I don’t have much of a social life…)

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Hi it's Emily from Bite Size Vegan and welcome[br]to another vegan nugget. Among the litany

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of objections to and arguments against veganism,[br]from your standard “plants have feelings”

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and “but lions eat meat,” lies an area[br]of discourse not so easily answered or discounted:

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the vegan stance on abortion.

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The topics of abortion and veganism do share[br]common ground. Both are decidedly polarizing

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issues quick to spark heated debate, have[br]passionately outspoken individuals on either

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side of the issue, often utilize similar tactics[br]within their outreach, education, and demonstrations,

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and involve a strong focus on the concepts[br]of sentience, individuality, pain perception

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and consciousness.

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Before we dive into this moralistic minefield,[br]let me first state that I will not be settling

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the abortion debate in this video. Sorry to[br]disappoint. What I will do is present the

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various arguments posed, along with perceived[br]logical inconsistencies, and scientific insights.

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I will also be using the common terms of pro-life[br]and pro-choice though I realize that either

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side has issues with these and have their[br]own terminology. This is merely to simplify

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the rhetoric in order to address the topic[br]at hand. You can find complete citations and

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a full bibliography for everything discussed[br]today on the blog post for this video linked

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below.

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I’d like to add that there is no vegan consensus[br]or official doctrine on abortion. Vegans,

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like the rest of the world’s population,[br]hold very different beliefs outside of their

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refusal to participate in the exploitation[br]of non-human animals. Views on abortion are

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often, but not always, heavily influenced[br]by ones religious or spiritual practice and

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morals, which vary as wildly amongst vegans[br]as non.

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In fact the issue of whether abortion is even[br]relevant to veganism itself is hotly debated.

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While the abortion issue is, at least from[br]my personal experience, most often thrown

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out as a diversion tactic intended to invalidate[br]veganism as a whole, there remain a few very

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real and valid intersections to explore.

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The disconnect most often perceived within[br]the veganism and abortion debate is the pro-choice

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vegan. Let’s start at the surface and the[br]most basic argument against pro-choice veganism:

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if vegans are against killing, then we have[br]to be against all killing. The fallacy in

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this position is what’s called a false dilemma,[br]posing a black and white reality when ample

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grey exists.

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Even most peace-loving pacifists would defend[br]themselves against an attacker and find no

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moral fault in the death of a perpetrator[br]during a true kill-or-be-killed situation.

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On the other side of the coin lies the most[br]basic defense for pro-choice veganism: abortion

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is dealing with a fetus in utero, of which[br]the sentience, consciousness and pain perception

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continues to be hotly debated, while veganism[br]deals with beings who are undeniably sentient,

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conscious, and pain-perceiving. However, as[br]we will soon see, this oversimplification

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fails to account for countless complex nuances,[br]though it is without doubt the most striking

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divergence, and one to take into account.

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When we start delving deeper into the abortion[br]debate, the lines begin to blur even further.

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The ability of a fetus to feel pain is a primary[br]argument of the pro-life camp. Seeing as how

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the prevention of pain and suffering is a[br]pillar of vegan ethics as well, it would appear

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that pro-choice vegans are left with quite[br]the conundrum. If, in fact, a fetus can feel

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pain, then the born vs. unborn moral distinction[br]fails. The key word being “if.”

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Here’s one of the places the abortion debate[br]lacks the clarity of veganism. Scientists

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still do not agree on fetal pain perception.[br]A 2005 meta-analysis concluded that, “fetal

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perception of pain is unlikely before the[br]third trimester.” A 2010 review by Britain’s

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Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists,[br]stated that, “the fetus cannot experience

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pain in any sense prior [to 24 weeks].”[br]The earliest estimate comes from Dr. Kanwaljeet

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S. Anand, something of an outlier in the field[br]and oft-quoted by the pro-life cause. Anand

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proposes a window of 18-24 weeks, though he’s[br]emphasized that, “fetal pain does not have

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much relevance for abortion, since most abortions[br]are performed before the fetus is capable

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of experiencing pain,” with only 1.5% of[br]abortions occurring after 20 weeks in the

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United States.[br]One element clouding the issue is the difference

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between nociception and pain, something I[br]discuss more in-depth in my video “Can Fish

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Feel Pain.” In short, there can be reaction[br]to potentially painful or harmful stimuli

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without the experience of pain, and nociceptors,[br]which appear as early as 7 weeks, are not

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in and of themselves capable of relaying pain.[br]Of course, this uncertainty doesn’t exactly

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place pro-choice veganism in the clear. Many[br]vegans believe that the ability of non-human

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animals to feel pain shouldn’t have to be[br]scientifically proven to our satisfaction

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before we stop abusing them. Why conduct cruel[br]studies when they make it glaringly obvious

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with crying out, trying to escape, flinching,[br]struggling, and showing indicators of psychological

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stress? We should operate on the assumption[br]that they can feel pain. So why then, does

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this courtesy not extend to a human fetus?[br]If pain alone were the issue, vegans would

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support the killing of unconscious animals[br]and pro-lifers wouldn’t protest the abortion

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of fetuses prior to the development of pain[br]perception. But both issues have additional

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layers, such as conscious awareness or sentience,[br]and future life interests.

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Vegans see the sentience of non-human animals,[br]meaning their ability to feel, perceive and

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experience life subjectively, as a solid grounds[br]for their protection. Often interchanged with

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“consciousness,” sentience in non-human[br]animals is widely accepted among scientists,

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with over 2,500 studies and the release of[br]an international Declaration of Consciousness

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in 2012.

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Similar to the variances in pain-perception[br]development, the certainty of sentience is

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lacking within the abortion debate. Still,[br]as vegan activist Gary Yourofsky has stated,

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“sentience [isn’t] the only factor when[br]deciding how we should treat other beings.

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(Even though trees, mountains, air and water[br]are insentient life forces, I think they have

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a right NOT to be exploited and polluted and[br]destroyed.)”

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Where the argument against pro-choice veganism[br]really gains some ground is the discussion

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of life potential. Vegans, including myself,[br]often argue that even if we could somehow,

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someway actually kill a non-human animal without[br]any pain or awareness, it would still be unethical

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as we could be choosing to end their life[br]prematurely. We do not see such an action

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as our choice, as personal choice is no longer[br]personal when it involves the welfare of another.

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How, then, can a vegan possibly support the[br]choice to abort the potential life of a human?

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The argument that the fetus is not aware of[br]a future won’t stand unless vegans also

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condone the killing of animals who are unaware[br]or unconscious at the time of death. So have

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we circled back to the born vs. unborn divide?[br]Again this becomes hazy with the uncertainty

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of pain and sentience.

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There exists an element of self-defense congruent[br]with vegan ideals that can be applied to abortion

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in the cases of rape and incest or when the[br]life of the mother is at stake. But what about

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abortion out of inconvenience or financial[br]strain? Or sex-selective abortions wherein

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female fetuses are aborted due to male cultural[br]preference, a practice most often associated

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with China and India, but prevalent in many[br]other countries where males increasingly outnumber

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females. Is choosing to stop the potential[br]life of a fetus for what could be termed one’s

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own comfort a parallel to meat eaters ending[br]the lives of non-human animals for their own

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comfort?

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Even more direct parallels exist. In my video[br]“Is Lab Meat Vegan,” I discussed the harvesting

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methods for bovine fetal serum, a growth medium[br]used within a wide range of laboratory experiments,

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along with fetal pig and fetal sheep serums.[br]Bovine fetal serum is obtained by piercing

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and draining the beating heart of fetal calves[br]who’ve been cut from their mothers’ wombs

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in slaughterhouses.

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This practice was understandably met with[br]horror and disgust from vegan viewers and

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even non-vegans. Were any of these vegans[br]pro-choice, would this reaction be an indication

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of dissonance or hypocrisy? The study I cited[br]went on in length about the potential pain-perception

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of the bovine fetuses and referenced a general[br]acceptance of 24 weeks for human fetus pain

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perception, and presented a figure of roughly[br]12 weeks, or 3 months for cows, who are more

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fully developed at birth than humans.

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Again the variances in situation may create[br]a buffer for the pro-choice vegan given that

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bovine fetuses must be at least 3 months old[br]to provide enough serum and are often 6 months

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or older when put through this procedure without[br]any anesthesia, well beyond the point of pain

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perception. Additionally, it’s readily evident[br]that a human mother procuring an abortion

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differs dramatically from cutting a living[br]fetus from the body of a mother cow slaughtered

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against her will in order to drain the heart[br]for profit.

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I would like to bring up another wrinkle.[br]While vegans believe in the rights of non-human

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animals, the majority, from what I have found,[br]which is by no means conclusive, do seem to

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support the spaying and neutering of companion[br]animals. While this is most certainly a violation

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of their rights, it is not, as Gary Yourofsky[br]has written, a cruel practice when performed

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properly. He, along with many activists, argues[br]that since the domestication of dogs and cats

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will not be undone anytime soon, spaying and[br]neutering is a better alternative than the

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current cruel and needless deaths of millions[br]of abandoned, unwanted companion animals due

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to overbreeding.

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Once again the parallel is by no means ideal,[br]as our animal companions have no ability to

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make this choice for themselves, and spaying[br]and neutering prevents a pregnancy while abortion

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ends one. I present this simply as an example[br]of vegans being faced with an ethical ambiguity

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and supporting the restriction of animals’[br]reproductive rights.

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At the more misanthropic end of the spectrum,[br]since humanity continues to murder trillions

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of innocent beings every year, decimate the[br]planet, and grow in population and demand

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for meat, could it be argued that stemming[br]this proliferation at its root would actually

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be perfectly inline with vegan principles?

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Any attempt to present a singular vegan view[br]on abortion negates the diversity and variance

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of vegans themselves. Many vegans reject the[br]aforementioned “animals vs. humans” dichotomy,

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seeing human and animal rights as inextricable[br]– to be protected and fought for concurrently.

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Something I personally find fascinating in[br]this whole debate is the focus on whether

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vegans can be pro-choice. With all of the[br]uncertainties inherent in fetal pain-perception

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and sentience and the absolute certainties[br]of non-human animal c pain-perception and

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sentience it’s interesting that the more[br]concrete question usually remains unasked:

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can someone non-vegans be pro-life?

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As I said in the opener, I’m not going to[br]settle the abortion debate, or even the veganism

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and abortion debate. Even with my attempts[br]at simplifications, it’s evident how complex

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this dialogue can easily become.

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I’d love to hear your thoughts on the debate[br]in the comments below. It’s gonna be fun

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down there. If you’d like to help support[br]Bite Size Vegan so I can keep putting in these

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long hours to bring you this educational resource,[br]please check out the support links in the

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video description below where you can give[br]a one-time donation or receive perks and rewards

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by joining the Nugget Army on Patreon. I’d[br]like to give a special thanks my $50 and above

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patrons and my whole Patreon family for making[br]this and all of my videos possible.

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If you enjoyed this video, please give it[br]a thumbs-up and share it around to spark debate.

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If you’re new, I’d love to have you as[br]a subscriber. I put out fresh vegan content

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every Monday, Wednesday, and some Fridays.[br]Now go live vegan, be sure to show this video

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at your next dinner party, and I’ll see[br]you soon.