0:00:10.071,0:00:16.020
All right!

0:00:16.020,0:00:19.579
Good evening everybody!

0:00:19.579,0:00:21.691
This hall is pretty full.

0:00:21.691,0:00:24.132
So I guess this is gonna be an interesting talk.

0:00:24.132,0:00:26.103
We are on a tight schedule. Our speaker Jake Applebaum

0:00:26.103,0:00:30.576
is gonna be joined by Julian Assange via, by a videostream

0:00:31.422,0:00:35.543
I really hope that's gonna work.

0:00:35.543,0:00:41.406
So without further do, please welcome our speaker and have fun!

0:00:47.636,0:00:53.974
So! We have a surprise guest. Some of you might know her.

0:00:55.522,0:01:34.480
She saved Edward Snowdens life. Her name is Sarah Harrison.

0:01:57.186,0:02:04.570
Thank You!

0:02:04.570,0:02:10.020
Good evening my name is Sarah Harrison, as you all appear to know.

0:02:10.020,0:02:12.247
I'm a journalist working for WikiLealks.

0:02:12.247,0:02:18.098
This Year I was part, as Jacob just said, of the WikiLeaks-team that saved Snowden from a life in prison.

0:02:18.098,0:02:24.418
This act and my job has meant that our legal advice is that I do not return to my home, the UK,

0:02:24.418,0:02:29.796
due to the ongoing terrorism investigation there in relation to movements of Eward Snowden documents.

0:02:29.796,0:02:33.653
The UK Government has chosen to define disclosing classified documents

0:02:33.653,0:02:37.382
with an intent to influence government behavior as terrorism.

0:02:37.382,0:02:41.708
I’m therefore currently remaining in Germany.

0:02:41.708,0:02:44.254
But it’s not just myself personally that has legal issues at WikiLeaks.

0:02:44.254,0:02:49.377
For a fourth Christmas arrested, Julian Assange continues to be detained without charge in the UK.

0:02:49.377,0:02:52.175
He’s been granted formal political asylum by Ecuador

0:02:52.175,0:02:54.178
due to the threat from the United States.

0:02:54.178,0:02:56.048
But in breach of international law,

0:02:56.048,0:02:59.799
the UK continues to refuse to allow him his legal right to take up this asylum.

0:02:59.799,0:03:02.880
In November of this year,

0:03:02.880,0:03:07.407
a US Government official confirmed that the enormous grand jury investigation,

0:03:07.407,0:03:09.880
which commenced in 2010, into WikiLeaks,

0:03:09.880,0:03:15.128
its staff, and specifically Julian Assange, continues.

0:03:15.128,0:03:20.046
This was then confirmed by the spokesperson of the prosecutor’s office in Virginia.

0:03:20.046,0:03:21.204
The Icelandic Parliament held an inquiry earlier this year,

0:03:21.204,0:03:28.285
where it found that the FBI had secretly and unlawfully sent nine agents to Iceland

0:03:28.285,0:03:31.129
to conduct an investigation into WikiLeaks there.

0:03:31.129,0:03:35.765
Further secret interrogations took place in Denmark and Washington.

0:03:35.765,0:03:38.606
The informant they were speaking with has been charged with fraud

0:03:38.606,0:03:42.156
and convicted on other charges in Iceland.

0:03:42.156,0:03:46.990
In the Icelandic Supreme Court, we won a substantial victory over the extralegal US financial blockade

0:03:46.990,0:03:54.055
that was erected against us in 2010 by VISA, MasterCard, PayPal, and other US financial giants.

0:03:54.055,0:03:57.900
Subsequently, MasterCard pulled out of the blockade.

0:03:57.900,0:04:02.448
We’ve since filed a $77 million legal case against VISA for the damages.

0:04:02.448,0:04:06.368
We filed a suit against VISA in Denmark as well.

0:04:06.368,0:04:10.572
And in response to questions about how PayPal’s owner can

0:04:10.572,0:04:14.320
start a free press outlet whilst blocking another media organisation,

0:04:14.320,0:04:17.967
he’s announced that the PayPal blockade of WikiLeaks has ended.

0:04:17.967,0:04:28.016
Sorry! That wasn't meant to be pause for a clap. I just needed some water, sorry.

0:04:28.016,0:04:30.489
We filed criminal cases in Sweden

0:04:30.489,0:04:33.299
and Germany in relation to the unlawful intelligence activity against us there,

0:04:33.299,0:04:38.006
including at the CCC in 2009.

0:04:38.006,0:04:41.744
Together with the Center for Constitutional Rights we filed a suit against the US military

0:04:41.744,0:04:44.922
against the unprecedented secrecy applied to Chelsea Manning’s trial.

0:04:44.922,0:04:49.570
Yet through these attacks we’ve continued our publishing work.

0:04:49.570,0:04:52.366
In April of this year, we launched the Public Library of US Diplomacy,

0:04:52.366,0:04:57.287
the largest and most comprehensible searchable database of US diplomatic cables in the world.

0:04:57.287,0:05:02.046
This coincided with our release of 1.7 million US cables

0:05:02.046,0:05:05.935
from the Kissinger period. We launched our third Spy Files,

0:05:05.935,0:05:09.206
239 documents from 92 global intelligence contractors

0:05:09.206,0:05:12.897
exposing their technology, methods, and contracts.

0:05:12.897,0:05:15.571
We completed releasing the Global Intelligence Files, over five million emails

0:05:15.571,0:05:17.900
from US intelligence firm Stratfor, the revelations from which included

0:05:17.900,0:05:24.530
documenting their spying on activists around the globe.

0:05:24.530,0:05:30.416
We published the primary negotiating positions for fourteen countries of the Trans-Pacific Partnership,

0:05:30.416,0:05:33.965
a new international legal regime that would control

0:05:33.965,0:05:37.069
40% of the world’s GDP.

0:05:37.069,0:05:40.148
As well as getting Snowden asylum, we set up Mr Snowden’s defence fund,

0:05:40.148,0:05:44.045
part of a broader endeavor, the Journalistic Source Protection Defence Fund,

0:05:44.045,0:05:47.655
which aims to protect and fund sources in trouble.

0:05:47.655,0:05:50.239
This will be an important fund for future sources, especially when we look at the US crackdown on whistleblowers

0:05:50.239,0:06:01.299
like Snowden and alleged WikiLeaks source Chelsea Manning,

0:06:01.299,0:06:03.464
who was sentenced this year to 35 years in prison, and another

0:06:03.464,0:06:05.321
alleged WikiLeaks source Jeremy Hammond, who was sentenced to ten years in prison

0:06:05.321,0:06:08.732
this November.[br]These men, Snowden, Manning, and Hammond,

0:06:08.732,0:06:13.326
are prime examples of a politicized youth who have grown up

0:06:13.326,0:06:16.710
with a free internet and want to keep it that way. It is this

0:06:16.710,0:06:19.218
class of people that we are here to discuss this evening, the powers they

0:06:19.218,0:06:24.465
and we all have, and can have, and the good that we can do with it.

0:06:24.465,0:06:27.167
I am joined here tonight for this discussion by two men I admire hugely.

0:06:27.167,0:06:31.448
Hopefully one of them will appear soon.

0:06:31.448,0:06:34.160
WikiLeaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange and Jacob Appelbaum, both who

0:06:34.160,0:06:39.800
have had a long history in defending our right to knowledge, despite political

0:06:39.800,0:06:59.732
and legal pressure. There He is...

0:06:59.732,0:07:04.165
So Julian, seeing as I haven’t seen you for quite awhile,

0:07:04.165,0:07:07.800
what’s been happening in this field this year, what’s

0:07:07.800,0:07:11.248
what’s your strategic view about it, this fight for freedom of knowledge, are we winning

0:07:11.248,0:07:13.131
or are we losing?

0:07:13.131,0:07:15.845
I have an 18-page speech

0:07:15.845,0:07:18.494
on the strategic vision, but I think I’ve got about five minutes, right?

0:07:18.494,0:07:21.571
At the most.

0:07:21.571,0:07:23.257
No, less?

0:07:23.257,0:07:26.963
Okay. Well. First off, it’s very

0:07:26.963,0:07:30.885
interesting to see the CCC has grown by 30%

0:07:30.885,0:07:32.411
over the last year.

0:07:32.411,0:07:36.575
And we can see the CCC

0:07:36.575,0:07:41.246
as a type a very important type

0:07:41.246,0:07:45.656
of institution which does have analogues.

0:07:45.656,0:07:49.246
The CCC is a paradox in that it has the vibrancy

0:07:49.246,0:07:53.334
of a young movement, but also now has been going nearly

0:07:53.334,0:08:03.717
30 years since its founding in 1981 by Wau Holland

0:08:03.717,0:08:08.613
Great point, great point.

0:08:08.613,0:08:10.963
Blame the NSA?

0:08:10.963,0:08:12.876
Blame the NSA?

0:08:12.876,0:08:15.404
It’s the new ‘blame Canada’.

0:08:15.404,0:08:18.094
Is it here or the embassy they’re spying on the most?

0:08:18.094,0:08:36.406
Such a good talk, isn’t it guys?

0:08:36.406,0:08:44.631
I wish Bruce Willis (Assange’s Skype name) would pick up the phone.

0:08:44.631,0:08:49.773
Should we move over while we’re waiting to you, Jake.

0:08:49.773,0:08:53.883
As I saying, I think it’s quite interesting, it does seem to be a trend that there are these young

0:08:53.883,0:08:56.085
technical people. We look at Manning, Snowden, Hammond…

0:08:56.085,0:09:01.007
often sysadmins. Why are they playing such an important role

0:09:01.007,0:09:03.379
in this fight for freedom of information?

0:09:03.379,0:09:05.716
Well, So, I think there are

0:09:05.716,0:09:08.130
a couple important points. The first important point is to understand that

0:09:08.130,0:09:11.312
ll of us have agency, but some of us actually have literally

0:09:11.312,0:09:14.811
have more agency than others in the sense that you have access to systems

0:09:14.811,0:09:20.375
that give you access to information that helps to found knowledge

0:09:20.375,0:09:24.870
that you have in your own head.[br]So someone like Manning

0:09:24.870,0:09:27.717
or someone like Snowden who has access to these documents in the course of their work,

0:09:27.717,0:09:31.798
they will simply have a better understanding of what is actually happening. They have access

0:09:31.798,0:09:34.769
to the primary source documents as part of their job.

0:09:34.769,0:09:37.884
This, I think, fundamentally is a really critical,

0:09:37.884,0:09:44.327
I would say a formative thing.[br]When you start to read these

0:09:44.327,0:09:47.551
original source documents you start to understand the way that organisations

0:09:47.551,0:09:47.882
actually think internally. And, this is one of the things that Julian Assange has said quite

0:09:47.882,0:09:54.257
quite a lot, it’s that when you read the internal documents of an organisation,

0:09:54.257,0:10:01.383
that’s how they really think about a thing. This is different than a press release.

0:10:01.383,0:10:03.881
And people who have grown up on the internet, and they’re essentially natives on the internet, and that’s all of us,

0:10:03.881,0:10:06.875
I think, for the most part. It’s definitely me. That

0:10:06.875,0:10:11.642
essentially forms a way of thinking about organisations where the official

0:10:11.642,0:10:15.178
thing that they say is not interesting. You know that there’s an agenda behind that

0:10:15.178,0:10:18.051
and you don’t necessarily know what that true agenda is.[br]And so people

0:10:18.051,0:10:20.803
who grow up in this and see these documents, they realise the agency

0:10:20.803,0:10:27.250
that they have. They understand it, they see that power, and they want to do something about it.

0:10:27.250,0:10:31.970
In some cases, some people do it in small starts and fits.

0:10:31.970,0:10:34.332
o there are lots of sources for lots of newspapers that are inside

0:10:34.332,0:10:38.614
of defense organisations or really, really large companies, and they share

0:10:38.614,0:10:43.302
this information. But in the case of Chelsea Manning,

0:10:43.302,0:10:44.846
in the case of Snowden, they went big.

0:10:44.846,0:10:49.697
And I presume that this is because of the scale of the wrongdoing that they saw,

0:10:49.697,0:10:53.481
in addition to the amount of agency that was provided by their access

0:10:53.481,0:10:59.546
and by their understanding of the actual information that they were able to have in their possession.

0:10:59.546,0:11:03.003
And do you think that it’s something to do

0:11:03.003,0:11:06.406
with being technical; they have a potential ability to

0:11:06.406,0:11:09.654
find a way to do this safer than other people, perhaps? Or?

0:11:09.654,0:11:13.046
I mean, it’s clearly the case that this helps.

0:11:13.046,0:11:19.461
There’s no question that understanding how to use those computer systems and

0:11:19.461,0:11:23.166
being able to navigate them, that that is going to be a helpful skill.

0:11:23.166,0:11:26.375
ut I think what it really is is that these are people who grew up in an era,

0:11:26.375,0:11:29.161
and I myself am one of these people, where we grew up in an era where

0:11:29.161,0:11:33.404
we are overloaded by information but we still are able to absorb a great deal of it

0:11:33.404,0:11:36.926
And we really are constantly going through this.

0:11:36.926,0:11:42.258
And if we look to the past, we see that it’s not just technical people, it’s actually people who have an analytical mind.

0:11:42.258,0:11:45.850
So, for example, Daniel Ellsberg, who’s famous for the ‘Ellsberg Paradox’.

0:11:45.850,0:11:48.210
So, for example, Daniel Ellsberg, who’s famous for the ‘Ellsberg Paradox’.

0:11:48.210,0:11:50.336
He was of course a very seriously embedded person in the US military,

0:11:50.336,0:11:53.933
he was in the RAND corporation, he worked with McNamara,

0:11:53.933,0:11:59.045
and during the Vietnam War he had access to huge amounts of information.

0:11:59.045,0:12:01.542
And it was the ability to analyse this information and to understand

0:12:01.542,0:12:06.008
in this case how the US Government during the Vietnam War was lying to the entire world.

0:12:06.008,0:12:10.711
And it was the magnitude of those lies combined

0:12:10.711,0:12:16.687
with the ability to prove that they were lies that I believe,

0:12:16.687,0:12:22.875
ombined with his analytical skill… It was clear what the action might be,

0:12:22.875,0:12:24.017
but it wasn’t clear what the outcome would be.

0:12:24.017,0:12:26.207
And with Ellsberg, the outcome was a very positive one. In fact it’s the most positive

0:12:26.207,0:12:30.446
outcome for any whistleblower so far that I know of in the history of the United States

0:12:30.446,0:12:32.654
and maybe even in the world.

0:12:32.654,0:12:34.298
What we see right now with Snowden

0:12:34.298,0:12:37.712
and what we’ve now seen with Chelsea Manning is unfortunately a very different outcome,

0:12:37.712,0:12:39.420
at least for Manning.

0:12:39.420,0:12:43.006
So this is also a hugely important point

0:12:43.006,0:12:48.900
which is that Ellsberg did this in the context of resistance against the Vietnam War.

0:12:48.900,0:12:52.008
And when Ellsberg did this, there were huge support networks,

0:12:52.008,0:12:56.454
there were gigantic things that split across all political spectrums of society.

0:12:56.454,0:12:59.413
And so it is the analytical framework

0:12:59.413,0:13:03.167
that we find ourselves with still, but additionally with the internet.

0:13:03.167,0:13:06.564
And so every single person here that works as a sysadmin,

0:13:06.564,0:13:10.406
could you raise your hand?

0:13:10.406,0:13:11.496
Right.

0:13:11.496,0:13:16.373
You represent, and I’m sorry to steal Julian’s thunder, but he was using Skype and well…

0:13:16.373,0:13:26.325
We all know Skype has interception and man-in-the-middle problems,

0:13:26.325,0:13:29.375
so I’m going to take advantage of that fact. You see, it’s not just the NSA.

0:13:29.375,0:13:35.404
Everyone that raised their hand, you should raise your hand again.

0:13:35.404,0:13:38.722
If you work at a company

0:13:38.722,0:13:42.096
where you think that they might be involved in something that is a little bit scary,

0:13:42.096,0:13:44.257
keep your hand up.

0:13:44.257,0:13:48.462
Right.

0:13:48.462,0:13:49.534
So here’s the deal:

0:13:49.534,0:13:54.294
everybody else in the room lacks the information that you probably have access to.

0:13:54.294,0:13:58.539
And if you were to make a moral judgment,

0:13:58.539,0:14:01.337
if you were to make an ethical consideration about these things,

0:14:01.337,0:14:04.324
t would be the case that as a political class you would be able to inform all of the political classes in this room,

0:14:04.324,0:14:10.895
all of the other people in this room, in a way that only you have the agency to do.

0:14:10.895,0:14:15.538
And those that benefit from you never doing that are the other people that have that.

0:14:15.538,0:14:18.788
Those people are also members of other classes as well.

0:14:18.788,0:14:22.336
And so the question is, if you were to unite as a political class,

0:14:22.336,0:14:26.164
and we are to unite with you in that political class, we can see that there’s a contextual way

0:14:26.164,0:14:31.497
to view this through a historical lens, essentially.

0:14:31.497,0:14:34.115
Which is to say when the industrialized workers of the world decided

0:14:34.115,0:14:37.722
that race and gender were not lines that we should split on,

0:14:37.722,0:14:40.721
but instead we should look at workers and owners,

0:14:40.721,0:14:48.084
then we started to see real change in the way that workers were treated and in the way the world itself was organizing labor.

0:14:48.084,0:14:50.488
And this was a hugely important change

0:14:50.488,0:14:52.125
during the industrial revolution.

0:14:52.125,0:14:54.204
And we are going through a very similar time now

0:14:54.204,0:14:57.093
with regard to information politics and with regard to the value of information in the information age.

0:14:57.093,0:15:26.885
Fantastic, Bruce Willis.

0:15:26.885,0:15:34.686
Jesus Christ, Julian, use Jitsi already.

0:15:34.686,0:15:38.973
And so, we’ve identified the potential

0:15:38.973,0:15:42.456
people that you’re talking about and you’ve spoken about how it’s good

0:15:42.456,0:15:44.039
for them to unite.

0:15:44.039,0:15:45.538
What are the next steps?

0:15:45.538,0:15:47.535
How do they come forth? How do they share this information?

0:15:47.535,0:15:49.167
Well, let’s consider a couple of things.

0:15:49.167,0:15:50.699
First is that

0:15:50.699,0:15:55.165
Bradley Manning, now Chelsea Manning; Daniel Ellsberg, still Daniel Ellsberg;

0:15:55.165,0:16:01.035
Edward Snowden, living in exile in Russia unfortunately.

0:16:01.035,0:16:03.288
Still Edward Snowden.

0:16:03.288,0:16:07.122
Still Edward Snowden, hopefully.

0:16:07.122,0:16:11.883
These are people who have taken great actions where they did not even set out to sacrifice themselves.

0:16:11.883,0:16:14.893
But once when I met Daniel Ellsberg he said,

0:16:14.893,0:16:18.289
‘Wouldn’t you go to prison for the rest of your life to end this war?’

0:16:18.289,0:16:21.370
This is something he asked to me, and he asked it quite seriously.

0:16:21.370,0:16:25.617
And it’s very incredible to be able to ask a hypothetical question

0:16:25.617,0:16:31.206
of someone that wasn’t a hypothetical question.

0:16:31.206,0:16:35.293
What he was trying to say is that right now you can make a choice

0:16:35.293,0:16:36.687
in which you actually have a huge impact,

0:16:36.687,0:16:38.366
should you choose to take on that risk.

0:16:38.366,0:16:40.759
But the point is not to set out to martyr yourself.

0:16:40.759,0:16:42.248
The point is to set out...

0:16:42.248,0:16:45.194
Are you going to stick around this time, Julian?

0:16:45.194,0:16:46.206
I don’t know, I’m waiting for the quantum hand of fate.

0:16:46.206,0:16:49.787
The quantum hand that wants to strangle you?

0:16:49.787,0:16:55.335
Yeah.

0:16:55.335,0:16:58.125
Yeah. So we were just discussing right now the previous context,

0:16:58.125,0:17:02.932
hat is Daniel Ellsberg, the Edward Snowdens, the Chelsea Mannings,

0:17:02.932,0:17:04.625
how they have done an honorable, a good thing

0:17:04.625,0:17:06.962
where they’ve shown a duty to a greater humanity,

0:17:06.962,0:17:08.799
a thing that is more important than loyalty,

0:17:08.799,0:17:11.968
for example, to a bureaucratic oath, but rather loyalty to universal principles.

0:17:11.968,0:17:16.217
So the next question is, how does that relate to the people that are here in the audience?

0:17:16.217,0:17:19.881
How is it the case that people who have access to systems

0:17:19.881,0:17:24.884
where they have said themselves they think the companies they work for are sort of questionable

0:17:24.884,0:17:27.404
or doing dangerous things in the world?

0:17:27.404,0:17:30.936
Where do we go from people who have done these things previously to these people in the audience?

0:17:30.936,0:17:36.207
Well, I don’t know how much ground you’ve covered,

0:17:36.207,0:17:40.796
but I think it’s important that we recognize what we are

0:17:40.796,0:17:44.606
and what we have become.

0:17:44.606,0:17:48.128
And that high tech workers are... ...a class.

0:17:48.128,0:17:52.129
In fact, very often... ... a position

0:17:52.129,0:17:58.108
to in fact prompt the leaders of society...

0:17:58.108,0:18:04.927
...cease operating...

0:18:04.927,0:18:15.633
Should we just leave him like that and continue?

0:18:15.633,0:18:32.298
Am I back?

0:18:32.298,0:18:36.132
Yeah. You’ve got three minutes to say something.

0:18:36.132,0:18:38.491
Make it good.

0:18:38.491,0:18:41.929
Those high tech workers, we are a particular class

0:18:41.929,0:18:44.709
and it’s time that we recognized that we are a class

0:18:44.709,0:18:46.650
and look back in history and understood

0:18:46.650,0:18:49.213
that the great gains in human rights and education

0:18:49.213,0:18:53.163
and so on that were gained through powerful industrial workers

0:18:53.163,0:18:56.323
which formed the backbone of the economy of the 20th century,

0:18:56.323,0:18:59.852
and that we have that same ability

0:18:59.852,0:19:04.380
but even more so because of the greater interconnection

0:19:04.380,0:19:07.494
that exists now economically and politically.

0:19:07.494,0:19:10.323
Which is all underpinned by system administrators.

0:19:10.323,0:19:18.216
And we should understand that system administrators are not just those people who administer one UNIX system or another.

0:19:18.216,0:19:21.379
They are the people who administer systems.

0:19:21.379,0:19:24.769
And the system that exists globally now

0:19:24.769,0:19:28.690
is created by the interconnection of many individual systems.

0:19:28.690,0:19:36.793
And we are all, or many of us, are part of administering that system

0:19:36.793,0:19:38.700
and have extraordinary power

0:19:38.700,0:19:43.813
in a way that is really an order of magnitude

0:19:43.813,0:19:48.814
different to the power industrial workers had in the 20th century.

0:19:48.814,0:19:52.167
And we can see that in the cases of the famous leaks

0:19:52.167,0:19:56.285
that WikiLeaks has done or the recent Edward Snowden revelations,

0:19:56.285,0:20:02.034
it is possible now for even single systems administrators to have a very significant change,

0:20:02.034,0:20:07.368
or rather apply very significant constructive constraint

0:20:07.368,0:20:10.533
to the behavior of these organizations.

0:20:10.533,0:20:12.615
Not merely wrecking or disabling them,

0:20:12.615,0:20:15.866
not merely going out on strikes to change policy,

0:20:15.866,0:20:21.790
but rather shifting information from an information apartheid system

0:20:21.790,0:20:25.326
which we’re developing from those with extraordinary power and extraordinary information

0:20:25.326,0:20:30.948
into the knowledge commons, where it can be used not only as a disciplining force,

0:20:30.948,0:20:33.095
but it can be used to construct and understand the new world that we’re entering into.

0:20:33.095,0:20:36.487
Now, Hayden, the former director of the CIA and NSA,

0:20:36.487,0:20:48.287
is terrified of this. In “Cypherpunks” we called for this directly last year.

0:20:48.287,0:20:57.615
But to give you an interesting quote from Hayden,

0:20:57.615,0:21:02.408
possibly following up on those words of mine and others,

0:21:02.408,0:21:07.122
“We need to recruit from Snowden’s generation”

0:21:07.122,0:21:08.292
says Hayden.

0:21:08.292,0:21:11.117
“We need to recruit from this group because they have the skills that we require.

0:21:11.117,0:21:15.621
So the challenge is how to recruit this talent while also protecting ourselves

0:21:15.621,0:21:20.487
from the small fraction of the population that has this romantic attachment

0:21:20.487,0:21:24.207
to absolute transparency at all costs.”

0:21:24.207,0:21:27.815
And that’s us, right?

0:21:27.815,0:21:32.524
So, what we need to do is spread that message and go into all those organisations.

0:21:32.524,0:21:34.201
In fact, deal with them.

0:21:34.201,0:21:37.498
I’m not saying, ‘Don’t join the CIA’.

0:21:37.498,0:21:38.723
No, go and join the CIA. Go in there.

0:21:38.723,0:21:41.871
Go into the ballpark and get the ball and bring it out,

0:21:41.871,0:21:44.846
with the understanding, with the paranoia,

0:21:44.846,0:21:50.285
that all those organizations will be infiltrated by this generation,

0:21:50.285,0:21:53.537
by an ideology that is spread across the internet.

0:21:53.537,0:21:56.617
And every young person is educated on the internet.

0:21:56.617,0:22:00.086
There will be no person that has not been exposed to this ideology

0:22:00.086,0:22:07.462
of transparency and understanding and wanting to keep the internet which we were born into free.

0:22:07.462,0:22:11.532
This is the last free generation.

0:22:11.532,0:22:16.007
The coming together of the systems of governments,

0:22:16.007,0:22:17.652
the new information apartheid, across the world,

0:22:17.652,0:22:20.691
linking together in such that none of us will be able to escape it in just a decade.

0:22:20.691,0:22:30.933
Our identities will be coupled to the information sharing

0:22:30.933,0:22:33.203
such that none of us will be able to escape it.

0:22:33.203,0:22:36.488
We are all becoming part of the state,

0:22:36.488,0:22:38.206
whether we like it or not.

0:22:38.206,0:22:46.653
So our only hope is to determine what sort of state it is that we are going to become part of.

0:22:46.653,0:22:48.703
nd we can do that by looking and being inspired

0:22:48.703,0:22:52.483
by some of the actions that produced human rights and free education and so on

0:22:52.483,0:22:55.578
by people recognizing that they were part of the state, recognizing their own power

0:22:55.578,0:23:02.687
and taking concrete and robust action to make sure

0:23:02.687,0:23:06.974
they lived in the sort of society they wanted to and not in a hell-hole dystopia.

0:23:06.974,0:23:08.367
Thank you.

0:23:08.367,0:23:26.090
So basically all those poor people Jake just made identify themselves,

0:23:26.090,0:23:29.595
you have the power to change more systems than the one you’re working on right now.

0:23:29.595,0:23:34.848
And I think it’s time to take some questions because we don’t have long left.

0:23:34.848,0:23:40.374
if there are any? What's the...

0:23:40.374,0:23:44.281
If you do have Questions, please line up in the middle of the room. we have microphones there.

0:23:44.281,0:23:50.537
If you cannot reach one please put your hand up, we try to get one to you.

0:23:50.537,0:23:53.651
While we wait for the first question.

0:23:53.651,0:23:56.815
I’d like to say, it looks like there’s quite a lot of people there..

0:23:56.815,0:23:59.812
Start going to the mic even while he's talking if you do have a question.

0:23:59.812,0:24:03.788
Cause otherwise we won't know that you have one and we just keep on going.

0:24:03.788,0:24:09.498
Alternatively just raise your hand... ...quite a lot of people there.

0:24:09.498,0:24:14.122
but you should all know that due to the various sorts of proximity measures

0:24:14.122,0:24:17.805
that are now employed by NSA, GCHQ, and Five Eyes Alliance,

0:24:17.805,0:24:21.621
if you’ve come there with a telephone,

0:24:21.621,0:24:24.794
or if you’ve been even in Hamburg with a telephone,

0:24:24.794,0:24:27.891
you are all now coupled to us.

0:24:27.891,0:24:29.337
You are coupled to this event.

0:24:29.337,0:24:31.576
You are coupled to this speech in an irrevocable way.

0:24:31.576,0:24:33.890
And that is now true for many people.

0:24:33.890,0:24:41.094
So either we have to take command of the position that we have,

0:24:41.094,0:24:44.538
, understand the position we have, understand that we are the last free people,

0:24:44.538,0:24:46.246
and the last people essentially with an ability to act in this situation.

0:24:46.246,0:24:53.205
Or we are the group that will be crushed

0:24:53.205,0:25:08.170
because of this association.

0:25:08.170,0:25:11.577
So you were talking about the sysadmins here.

0:25:11.577,0:25:15.400
What about those people who are not sysadmins?

0:25:15.400,0:25:21.561
Not only joining CIA and those companies, what else can we do?

0:25:21.561,0:25:25.033
Jake, do you want to have a go at that one?

0:25:25.033,0:25:27.116
Sure. This is a question of agency.

0:25:27.116,0:25:27.955
Good timing.

0:25:27.955,0:25:29.890
It’s a question in which one has to ask very simply,

0:25:29.890,0:25:31.934
what is it that you feel like you can do?

0:25:31.934,0:25:35.014
And many of the people in this audience I’ve had this discussion with them.

0:25:35.014,0:25:38.497
For example, Edward Snowden did not save himself.

0:25:38.497,0:25:41.534
I mean, he obviously had some ideas, but Sarah, for example,

0:25:41.534,0:25:45.620
not as a system administrator, but as someone who was willing to risk her person.

0:25:45.620,0:25:49.247
She helped, specifically for source protection, she took actions to protect him.

0:25:49.247,0:25:53.121
So there are plenty of things that can be done.

0:25:53.121,0:25:57.408
To give you some ideas, Edward Snowden, still sitting in Russia now,

0:25:57.408,0:25:59.922
there are things that can be done to help him even now.

0:25:59.922,0:26:06.117
And there are things to show, that if we can succeed

0:26:06.117,0:26:07.648
in saving Edward Snowden’s life and to keep him free,

0:26:07.648,0:26:09.538
that the next Edward Snowden will have that to look forward to.

0:26:09.538,0:26:12.248
And if we look also to what has happened to Chelsea Manning,

0:26:12.248,0:26:17.688
we see additionally that Snowden has clearly learned,

0:26:17.688,0:26:20.488
just as Thomas Drake and Bill Binney set an example

0:26:20.488,0:26:24.561
for every single person about what to do and what not to do.

0:26:24.561,0:26:26.486
It’s not just about systems administrators,

0:26:26.486,0:26:31.767
it’s about all of us actually recognizing that positive contribution that each of us can make.

0:26:31.767,0:26:35.403
OK our next question will be microphone 4 ..2 please

0:26:35.403,0:26:41.605
Hi Julian, I’m wondering,

0:26:41.605,0:26:42.087
do you believe that transparency alone is enough to inject some form of conscience into evil organizations,

0:26:42.087,0:26:52.335
quote and quote “evil” organizations?

0:26:52.335,0:26:58.285
And if not, what do you believe the next step after transparency is?

0:26:58.285,0:27:02.038
It’s not about injecting conscience,

0:27:02.038,0:27:04.656
it’s about providing two things:

0:27:04.656,0:27:08.451
one, an effective deterrent to particular forms of behavior

0:27:08.451,0:27:17.168
and two, finding that information which allows us to construct an order in the world around us,

0:27:17.168,0:27:20.682
to educate ourselves in how the world works

0:27:20.682,0:27:25.765
and therefore be able to manage the world that we are a part of.

0:27:25.765,0:27:28.700
The restriction of information,

0:27:28.700,0:27:33.407
the restriction of those bits of information, colors it.

0:27:33.407,0:27:37.563
It gives off an economic signal that information is important when it’s released,

0:27:37.563,0:27:41.405
because otherwise why would you spend so much work in restricting it?

0:27:41.405,0:27:44.090
So the people that know it best restrict it.

0:27:44.090,0:27:46.805
We should take their measurements of that information

0:27:46.805,0:27:52.285
as a guide and use that to pull it out where it can achieve some kind of reform.

0:27:52.285,0:27:55.033
That, in itself, is not enough.

0:27:55.033,0:27:59.485
It creates an intellectual commons which is part of our mutual education.

0:27:59.485,0:28:05.455
But we need to understand, say, if we look at the Occupy event,

0:28:05.455,0:28:08.487
a very interesting political event,

0:28:08.487,0:28:17.246
where revelations and perhaps destabilization led to a very large group wanting to do something

0:28:17.246,0:28:23.894
However, there was no organizational scaffold for these people to attach themselves to,

0:28:23.894,0:28:29.615
no nucleus for these people to crystallize onto.

0:28:29.615,0:28:31.978
And it is that problem,

0:28:31.978,0:28:36.287
which is an endemic problem of the anarchist left, actually.

0:28:36.287,0:28:39.573
The CCC. Why are we having this right now?

0:28:39.573,0:28:43.039
Because the CCC is an organized structure.

0:28:43.039,0:28:50.957
It’s a structure which has been able to grow to accommodate the 30% of extra people that have occurred this year.

0:28:50.957,0:28:55.244
To shift and change and act like one of the better workers’ universities that are around.

0:28:55.244,0:29:01.564
So we have to form unions and networks

0:29:01.564,0:29:05.735
and create programs and organizational structures.

0:29:05.735,0:29:10.039
And those organizational structures can also be written in code.

0:29:10.039,0:29:13.486
Bitcoin, for example, is an organizational structure

0:29:13.486,0:29:19.290
that creates an intermediary between people, it sets up rules between people.

0:29:19.290,0:29:23.698
It may end up as a quite totalitarian system one day,

0:29:23.698,0:29:26.938
who knows, but at the moment it provides some kind of balancing.

0:29:26.938,0:29:29.813
So code and human structures do things.

0:29:29.813,0:29:37.561
WikiLeaks was able to rescue Edward Snowden because we are an organized institution with collective experience.

0:29:37.561,0:29:42.701
Okay, I think there’s one question left that’s coming from the internet.

0:29:42.701,0:29:50.785
On IRC there was the question, what was the most difficult part on getting Snowden out of the US?

0:29:50.785,0:29:56.654
That’s quite a loaded question.

0:29:56.654,0:30:01.042
Yeah, that’s interesting to think whether we can actually answer that question at all.

0:30:01.042,0:30:06.792
I’ll give a variant of the answer because of the legal situation it is a little bit difficult.

0:30:06.792,0:30:12.958
As some of you may know, the UK Government has admitted to

0:30:12.958,0:30:19.851
spending £6 million a year approximately surveilling this embassy in the police forces alone.

0:30:19.851,0:30:21.869
So you can imagine the difficulty in communicating with various people in different countries

0:30:21.869,0:30:34.884
in relation to his diplomatic asylum and into logistics in Hong Kong in a situation like that.

0:30:34.884,0:30:37.176
And the only reason we were able to succeed is because of extemely dilligent…

0:30:37.176,0:30:48.541
Perfectly timed.

0:30:48.541,0:30:49.795
And we didn’t use Skype.

0:30:49.795,0:30:54.486
Do we have time for one more question?

0:30:54.486,0:30:57.880
I think we run out of the time.

0:30:57.880,0:30:59.333
That was such a fantastic, perfect way to make sure that you didn’t learn the answer to that question.

0:30:59.333,9:59:59.000
Unfortunately that is all the time we have for this talk