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[This talk contains mature content
Viewer discretion is advised]

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My specialty, as a sex educator,
is I bring the science.

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But my first and most important job
is that I stay neutral

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when I talk about anything sex-related,

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no embarrassment, no titillation,
no judgment, no shame,

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no matter where I am.

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No matter what question you ask me.

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At the end of a conference
in a hotel lobby once,

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I'm literally on my way out the door
and a colleague chases me down.

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"Emily, I just have
a really quick question.

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A friend of mine --

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(Laughter)

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wants to know if it's possible
to get addicted to her vibrator."

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The answer is no,
but it is possible to get spoiled.

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A different conference,
this one in an outdoor tropical paradise,

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I'm at the breakfast buffet,
and a couple approaches me.

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"Hi, Emily, we're sorry to interrupt you

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but we just wanted to ask a quick question
about premature ejaculation."

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"Sure, let me tell you
about the stop/start technique."

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That is my life.

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I stay neutral when
other people might "squick."

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Squick is an emotion
that combines surprise

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with embarrassment plus some disgust

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and like, not knowing
what to do with your hands.

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So, it's a product.

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The reason you experience it

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is because you spent
the first two decades of your life

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learning that sex is a dangerous
and disgusting source of everlasting shame

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and if you're not really good at it,
no one will ever love you.

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(Laughter)

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So you might squick,
hearing me talk about sex

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while you're sitting in a room
full of strangers -- that is normal.

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I invite you to breathe.

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Feelings are tunnels.

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We make our way through the darkness
to get to the light at the end.

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And I promise it's worth it.

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Because I want to share with you
today a piece of science

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that has changed
how I think about everything,

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from the behavior of neurotransmitters
in our emotional brain,

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to the dynamics of our
interpersonal relationships.

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To our judicial system.

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And it starts with our brain.

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There's an area of your brain
you've probably heard referred to

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as the "reward center."

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I think calling it the reward center

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is a little bit like calling
your face your nose.

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That is one prominent feature,

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but it ignores some other parts
and will leave you really confused

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if you're trying to understand
how faces work.

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It's actually three intertwined
but separable systems.

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The first system is liking.

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Which is like reward,

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so this is the opioid hotspots
in your emotional brain.

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It assesses hedonic impact --

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"Does this stimulus feel good?

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How good?

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Does this stimulus feel bad?

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How bad?"

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If you drop sugar water
on the tongue of a newborn infant,

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the opioid-liking system
sets off fireworks.

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And then there's the wanting system.

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Wanting is mediated
by this vast dopaminergic network

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in and beyond the emotional brain.

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It motivates us to move toward
or away from a stimulus.

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Wanting is more like your toddler,
following you around,

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asking for another cookie.

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So wanting and liking are related.

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They are not identical.

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And the third system is learning.

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Learning is Pavlov's dogs.

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You remember Pavlov?

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He makes dogs salivate
in response to a bell.

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It's easy, you give a dog food,
salivates automatically,

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and you ring a bell.

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Food, salivate, bell.

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Food, bell, salivate.

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Bell, salivate.

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Does that salivation mean
that the dog wants to eat the bell?

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Does it mean that the dog
finds the bell delicious?

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No.

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What Pavlov did
was make the bell food-related.

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When we see this separateness
of wanting, liking and learning,

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this is where we find
an explanatory framework

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for understanding what researchers call
arousal nonconcordance.

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Nonconcordance, very simply,

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is when there is a lack
of predictive relationship

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between your physiological
response, like salivation,

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and your subjective experience
of pleasure and desire.

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That happens in every emotional
and motivational system that we have,

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including sex.

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Research over the last 30 years

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has found that genital
blood flow can increase

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in response to sex-related stimuli

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even if those sex-related stimuli
are not also associated

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with the subjective experience
of wanting and liking.

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In fact, the predictive relationship

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between genital response
and subjective experience

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is between 10 and 50 percent.

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Which is an enormous range.

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You just can't predict necessarily

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how a person feels
about that sex-related stimulus

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just by looking
at their genital blood flow.

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When I explained this to my husband,
he gave me the best possible example.

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He was like,

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"So, that could explain this one time,
when I was in high school, I ...

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I got an erection in response
to the phrase 'doughnut hole.'"

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(Laughter)

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Did he want to have sex with the doughnut?

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No.

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He was a teenage boy
flooded with testosterone,

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which makes everything
a little bit sex-related.

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And it can go in both directions.

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A person with a penis may struggle
to get an erection one evening,

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and then wake up the very next
morning with an erection,

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when it's nothing but a hassle.

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I got a phone call from
a 30-something friend, a woman,

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she said, "So, my partner and I
were in the middle of doing some things

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and I was like, 'I want you right now.'

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And he said, 'No, you're still dry,
you're just being nice.'

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And I was so ready.

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So what's the matter, is it hormonal,
should I talk to a doctor,

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what's going on?"

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Answer?

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It's arousal nonconcordance.

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If you're experiencing unwanted pain,
talk to a medical provider.

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Otherwise -- arousal nonconcordance.

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Your genital behavior
just doesn't necessarily predict

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your subjective experience
of liking and wanting.

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Another friend, back in college,

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told me about her first experiences
of power play in a sexual relationship.

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She told me that her partner tied her up

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with her arms over her head like this,
she's standing up and he positions her

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so she's straddling a bar, presses up
against her clitoris, like this.

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So there's my friend, standing there,
and the guy leaves.

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It's a power play.

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Leaves her alone.

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So there's my friend, and she goes,

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"I'm bored."

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(Laughter)

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And the guy comes back
and she says, "I am bored."

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And he looks at her
and he looks at the bar

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and he says, "Then why are you wet?"

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Why was she wet?

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Is it sex-related to have pressure
directly against your clitoris?

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Yeah.

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Does that tell him whether
she wants or likes what's happening?

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Nope.

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What does tell him whether
she wants or likes what's happening?

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She does!

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She recognized and articulated
what she wanted and liked.

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All he had to do was listen to her words.

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My friend on the phone --
what's the solution?

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You tell your partner,
"Listen to your words."

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Also, buy some lube.

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(Laughter)

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(Applause)

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Applause for lube, absolutely.

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(Applause)

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Everyone, everywhere.

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But I want to tell you a darker
listen-to-her-words story.

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This one comes from a note
that a student sent me

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after I gave a lecture
about arousal nonconcordance.

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She was with a partner,
a new partner, glad to be doing things,

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and they reached a point

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where that was as far
as she was interested in going

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and so she said no.

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And the partner said, "No, you're wet,
you're so ready, don't be shy."

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Shy?

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As if it hadn't taken all the courage
and confidence she had

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to say no to someone she liked.

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Whose feelings she did not want to hurt.

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But she said it again.

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She said no.

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Did he listen to her words?

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In the age of Me Too
and Time's Up, people ask me,

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"How do I even know
what my partner wants and likes?

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Is all consent to be verbal
and contractual now?"

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There are times when consent is ambiguous

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and we need a large-scale
cultural conversation about that.

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But can we make sure we're noticing
how clear consent is

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if we eliminate this myth?

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In every example I've described so far,

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one partner recognized and articulated
what they wanted and liked:

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"I want you right now."

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"No."

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And their partner told them
they were wrong.

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It's gaslighting.

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Profound and degrading.

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You say you feel one way,

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but your body proves
that you feel something else.

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And we only do this around sexuality,

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because arousal nonconcordance

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happens with every emotional
and motivational system we have.

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If my mouth waters
when I bite into a wormy apple,

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does anybody say to me,

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"You said no, but your body said yes?"

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(Laughter)

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And it's not only our partners
who get it wrong.

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The National Judicial Education Program
published a document

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called "Judges Tell: What I Wish
I Had Known Before I Presided

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in a Case of an Adult Victim
of Sexual Assault."

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Number 13:

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On occasion, the victim, female or male,
may experience a physical response,

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but this is not a sexual response
in the sense of desire or mutuality."

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This brings me one step closer
into the darkness,

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and then I promise
we will find our way into the light.

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I'm thinking of a recent court case
involving multiple instances

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of non-consensual sexual contact.

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Imagine you're on the jury

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and you learn that the victim had orgasms.

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Does it change how your gut
responds to the case?

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Let me remind you,
orgasm is physiological;

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it is a spontaneous,
involuntary release of tension,

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generated in response
to sex-related stimuli.

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But the perpetrator’s lawyer made sure
the jury knew about those orgasms

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because he thought the orgasms
could be construed as consent.

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I will also add that this was a child
being abused by an adult in the family.

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I invite you to breathe.

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That kind of story can give a person
all kind of feelings,

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from rage to shame to confused arousal

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because it is sex-related,

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even though it is appalling.

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But even though I know it's difficult

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to sit with those feelings
in a room full of strangers,

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if we can find our way through
all of the messy feelings,

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I believe we will find our way
to the light of compassion

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for that child,

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whose relationship
with her body was damaged

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by an adult whose job it was
to protect it.

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And we'll find hope
that there was a trustworthy adult

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who could say, "Genital response

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just means it was a sex-related stimulus;
doesn't mean it was wanted or liked,

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certainly doesn't mean
it was consented to.

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(Applause)

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That compassion and that hope
are why I travel all over,

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talking about this
to anyone who will listen.

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I can see it helping people,
even as I say the words.

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I invite you to say the words.

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You don't have to say "clitoris"
in front of 1000 strangers.

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But do have one brave conversation.

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Tell this to someone you know
who has experienced sexual violence --

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you definitely know someone.

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In the US it's one in three women.

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One in six men.

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Almost half of transgender folks.

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Say "Genital response means
it's a sex-related stimulus.

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It doesn't mean it was wanted or liked."

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Say it to a judge you know
or a lawyer you know,

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or a cop or anyone who might sit
on a jury in a sexual assault case.

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Say "Some people think
that your body doesn't respond

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if you don't want
or like what's happening,

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if only that were true.

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Instead, arousal nonconcordance.

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Say this to the confused
teenager in your life

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who is just trying to figure out
what, even, what?

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Say, if you bite this moldy fruit
and your mouth waters,

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nobody would say to you,

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"Well, you just don't want to admit
how much you like it."

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Same goes for down below,
arousal nonconcordance.

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Say it to your partner.

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My genitals do not tell you
what I want or like.

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I do.

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(Applause)

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The roots of this myth are deep

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and they are entangled with some
very dark forces in our culture.

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But with every brave conversation we have,

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we make the world
that little bit better, a little simpler

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for the confused teenager.

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A little easier for your friend
on the phone, worried that she's broken.

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A little easier and safer

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for the survivors, one in three women.

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One in six men.

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Half of trans folks.

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Me too.

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So for every brave conversation you have,

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thank you.

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(Applause)

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Thank you.

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Thanks.

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(Applause)

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Helen Walters: Emily, come up here.

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Thank you so much.

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I know that you do this all the time,

284
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and yet, still, I'm so grateful to you
for having the courage

285
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to come and talk about that on this stage.

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It really took a lot
and we're very grateful to you.

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So thank you.

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Emily Nagoski: I am grateful to be here.

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HW: So in your regular day job,

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I imagine, as you put
at the top of the talk,

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you get asked a lot of questions.

292
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But what's the one question
that you get asked all the time

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that you can share with everyone here
so you don't have to answer it 1000 times

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throughout the rest of the week?

295
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EN: The question I get asked most often

296
00:13:41,815 --> 00:13:45,220
is actually the question underneath
pretty much all the other questions,

297
00:13:45,244 --> 00:13:47,283
so, can you get addicted to your vibrator,

298
00:13:47,307 --> 00:13:49,387
please help me
with my erectile dysfunction?

299
00:13:49,411 --> 00:13:52,513
Underneath every question is actually
the question, "Am I normal?"

300
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To which my answer in my mind is,

301
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what even is normal and why is that
what you want your sexuality to be?

302
00:13:59,942 --> 00:14:02,283
Why do we only want to be normal
around sexuality?

303
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Don't we want to be extraordinary?

304
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Like, do you just want normal sex
or do you want awesome sex in your life?

305
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I think, though, there's a lot of fear

306
00:14:10,498 --> 00:14:12,665
around being too different sexually.

307
00:14:12,689 --> 00:14:14,228
When people are asking me,

308
00:14:14,252 --> 00:14:16,173
"Is this thing I'm experiencing normal,"

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what they're actually
asking me is, "Do I belong?"

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Do I belong in this relationship,

311
00:14:21,943 --> 00:14:24,418
do I belong in this community of people,

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do I belong on earth as a sexual person?

313
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To which the answer is always
a resounding yes.

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The only barrier there is,
the only limit there is, there are two:

315
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one, if you're experiencing
unwanted sexual pain,

316
00:14:38,370 --> 00:14:39,672
talk to a medical provider.

317
00:14:39,696 --> 00:14:44,045
And two: As along as everybody involved
is free and glad to be there,

318
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and free to leave whenever they want to,

319
00:14:46,015 --> 00:14:48,704
you're allowed to do
anything that you want to.

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There is no script,
there is no box you have to fit into,

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00:14:51,577 --> 00:14:55,127
you're allowed, as long as there is
consent and no unwanted pain,

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you're totally free to do
whatever you want.

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HW: Amazing. Thank you so much.

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EN: Thank you.

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HW: Thank you, you're incredible.

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00:15:02,286 --> 00:15:03,436
(Applause)