WEBVTT
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Angel: Our speaker today is Evan Roth.
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He's a multi-disciplinary American artist
based in Paris.
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He's working with sculptures, prints,
videos and websites
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and in the upcoming hour during his talk
he'll take you on a journey about art,
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politics, culture,
the misuse of communication technologies
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and how all of these are connected
to each other.
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Please give a warm round of applause
for Evan Roth, our speaker today!
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Thank you very much!
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Applause
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Evan: Hi everybody, thanks so much for coming,
I'm really humbled and honoured to be here.
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It's my first time on this side of the internet
with you all, so thanks so much for joining.
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Ya, my name is Evan. I'm an American,
I'm living in Paris at the moment.
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I'm an artist, and so I'm gonna talk a bit
about the art I've been making the last few
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years,
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how it's changed as the internet's changed,
and hopefully weave some threads through here.
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The work I'm making primarily shows up
in these three areas of the gallery,
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public space and the internet.
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The mediums I'm using are often quite different,
but historically the work I've been making
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has been connected by this relationship
between misuse and empowerment,
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and how misuse can kind of be this lens
that we, as we all know, look at technologies
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but lots of things in life around us
is sort of see things that have other
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sort of unintended uses, right.
Female voice in bg: Introducing the iRobot
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robot..
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Evan: To make things, like consumer domestic
products much more interesting, right,
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so this is the doomba,
this old old internet meme, right,
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laughter
but, so good, right,
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such a wonderful gift that the internet gave
us
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with the doomba,
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like I can't wait until.. I really feel like
this
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should be in the permanent collection
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of the Museum of Modern Arts,
this is one of my favourite sculptures
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I've seen in the last few years.
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But for me, I tried to have like doomba vision
when I'm doing activism
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or when I'm doing art
and thinking about like
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what else can I ducttape knifes onto
to make it more interesting than it was
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the way the manufacturer sort of
er, advertised it to me, right?
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Ahm, and so that's kind of a main inspiration
for a lot of the art work that I look at,
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that I'm a fan of
and that I'm trying to make in my own practice.
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And so two maybe more specific themes
I'm gonna try to show through different projects
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are 1) this idea of technological empowerment,
which is part of the reason I became an artist,
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and the other this idea of visualisation
through misuse.
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And my kind of .. my history with technological
empowerment went back to the ..
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when I was an architect.
I was at university and I was..
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I had one class about computers,
that my dad sort of forced me to take,
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and I didn't think
it was that interesting.
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This was back when I was literally still doing,
like, graphite with a straight edge on vellum,
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right?
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This was like the first class where they're
gonna
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do things like 3D modelling on Autocad,
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and there was one week about the internet.
And I had like this really vivid memory
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where the professor brought up
this fetch window on an old Mac,
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and like edited it in a little text document
and dragged it in and the dog
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ran it up to the internet and then
he'd refresh on the browser
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and it updated.
And of course this is like small news now,
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but for me this was huge.
I couldn't believe it,
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like I really just couldn't believe
that for free I could say anything to anybody
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and nobody could really censor it.
It just seemed like it was too good to be
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true.
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And that was kind of the death
knell on my architectural career.
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Like I would go on to graduate
and work for a couple of years,
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but very quickly I was falling in love
with the internet in the early kind-of-like
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flash days,
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remember, that time was really fun.
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And so I was coming home from
my architecture job and sort of trying to
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learn code
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and trying .. kind of had my first introduction
to open source,
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like reading Joshua Davis' praystation FLA
files,
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if anybody remembers that day.
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But that was kind of my introduction to technology,
and it was really empowering,
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like, it was a feeling, that I still remember
and try to, like, hone in on
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when I'm getting more depressed these days.
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And so, how this shows up in some of my work,
I'm gonna start around, like, 2005
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with some projects that I've been doing
up to projects that I've been doing right
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now.
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Back in 2005/2006 I co-founded an organisation
called Graffiti Reseach Lab
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with a friend named James Powderly,
while we were in residency at IBM in New York.
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And the basic idea we had with
Graffiti Research Lab was that
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technologies were getting a lot cheaper
to the point where they're almost getting
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disposable,
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like LEDs, digital projectors were getting
really cheap, lasers were getting really cheap,
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and we were interested in trying to make projects
that would start to get graffiti writers and
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activists
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talking to the
free software movement more.
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Like have a common dialogue for
these two very different groups of toolbuilders.
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And so, with that as, like, a premise,
we sort of thought of ourselves
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as the Q branch for graffiti writers, right?
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I'll just show one quick project.
This was called 'Laser Tag'.
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This was a in retrospect very simple
computer vision project,
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but we would basically go out with
a digital projector
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and we'd invite activists and
we'd invite graffiti writers,
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and we'd set up on this sort of
biggest buildings that we could find in town.
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And we would just have this kind of open system,
like, the only rules that we had with the
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project
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was that there couldn't be a censor button.
People had to be allowed to say
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whatever they wanted.
Most of the times we did it without permission,
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which isn't saying much because
at the time there wasn't a lot of people
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projecting in public so there weren't a lot
of
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sort of laws in this sort of grey area.
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So even when the police usually came
it was more of a conversation than a ticket.
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And so we were making,
this is one example of lots of projects
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we were making where it was kind of about
amplifying free speech,
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like trying to use technologies
that were getting cheaper and cheaper and
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cheaper
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to level that playing field between people
who live in cities and people who advertise
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in cities,
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and what kind of visual language
and visual communication we have in both those
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places.
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So that was the work Graffiti Research Lab
was doing.
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At some point we realized with Graffiti Research
Lab
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that the sort of technical hacking we were
doing
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was much less interesting than the
more social hacking we were doing.
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And we also, we were getting much more
press than we deserved,
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and we were trying to figure out
why that was happening,
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and one thing we sorta came to was
we were sorta fulfilling this narrative
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that the media wants, which is
that we are living in the future now, right?
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Which is why everyone is reporting on
hoverboards now, like, ???
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we're here, you know?
And graffiti writers with lasers
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was one of those apparently, like,
monumental future points that we'd hit,
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and so the media was trying to write
about our projects,
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and we realized that this was sort of
a social hack where we could start to
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empower other people with maybe
more marginalized voices
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to get in the newspapers more often.
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And so, our mission changed slightly,
and so we kind of morphed the energy that
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we had
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with Graffiti Research Lab into this group
called the Free Art and Technology Lab,
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which didn't really have a sort of
set code or manifesto,
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but the basic idea was that we were gonna
use what even Franco called radical entertainment,
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This idea that you could make sort of engaging
media on the internet
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that people are gonna want to click on,
not because they agree with the politics,
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because they wanna see people
acting a fool in the streets, right?
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So I'll show, I'll show one project here.
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This was from a suite of projects
we did in Berlin, gosh, a few years ago now,
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called 'Fuck Google', where we came together
to make Fuck Google projects.
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So this was one where we rented a..
actually, Aram Bartholl was over here,
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you can see him seated there in the driver's
seat,
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rented this car for very cheap,
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bought a roof rack off of ebay i think,
for, like, 15 Euros,
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and then everything above the roof
was just cardboard, ducttape and wires.
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There was nothing technical in this project,
it was purely a social hack.
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And this was probably my second greatest
technological empowering moment.
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Driving the google car is fucking amazing.
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Here is what that looks like.
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music
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laughter
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So once we had the car,
we were just brainstorming,
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like, what are the little skits we could
play out, that would kind of put google
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in a compromised position.
And so, yeah, it was breaking down.
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This is the drinking and driving.
Laughter
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applause
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And if you wanna know how strong google's
brand is, this is a staged carjacking,
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where someone off the street
risks their life to save a corporate automobile
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engaged in spying practices.
Laughter
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And so the idea is that we were then leaking
these on the internet and
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this was a long time ago back when
we were not sure if google was evil or not,
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right?
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So this discussion was happening.
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It's happening more in Germany than in
other places, actually.
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But the idea was to get those conversations
happening outside of places like this,
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and outside of places like our gallery
and art institutions and more in, like,
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the mainstream press,
and, like, people over coffee
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picking up this story
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and starting to talk about these issues.
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That was kind of the idea behind
F.A.T. Lab function.
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I was also maintaining a solo practice
at the same time as I was doing these
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more collaborative projects.
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This is one called 'Free Speech' I did
in Vienna in 2000.. I don't know, like 3 or
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4 years ago now?
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This is again, like, a very simple technology,
this is another rented car with vinyl letters
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of a mobile phone number, mobile Viennese
phone number,
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and an arrow pointing to a loudspeaker
on the roof.
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And that's the only input you get
as the viewer.
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And we just drove this around Vienna
for three days,
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and people that were sort of curious
enough to call that would have their phone
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routed directly to the speaker,
and there was noone on the other line,
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so their first realisation that they were
sort of in the system when they would just
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hear themselves, like,
'Hello?' echoing throughout the streets.
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I'll show a bit of that that looks like.
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noise
Female voice: Hallo? Hallo!
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Ich bin der Champion!
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Male voice: Laughter
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noise
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Children: Hallo! Fick dich!
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Male voice: Laura! Ich liebe dich!
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Music
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Group voices: Hallo? Niiiiice!
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So fresh, man. TschĂś.
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Evan: And so, like, that guy was maybe my
favourite,
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or maybe that guy who picked up
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and just started laughing,
even though when confronted
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with this sort of
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louder voice in public, and they were..
maybe thought that were gonna have,
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when they set out, commute to work or
go to coffee,
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even though maybe they didn't choose
to say these more poignant points, you know?
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Maybe just the laughter to me was this
more pure feeling of what technological
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empowerment feels like, right, like
just laughing on the streets
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because you kind of have
this empowered voice.
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Like, that, that's the feeling I wanna
get as an artist and so,
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some of the work I was doing was trying
to sort of set up, set up these systems
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that would allow other people
to have these sort of experiences.
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So again, like very simple tools for
empowerment,
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very low-tech tools for empowerment.
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The other thread that I was doing throughout
that period and maybe more so
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in the last 3 years
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has to do with sort of this idea of visualizing
the invisible
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which I think is something that artists wrestle
with quite a bit.
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And specifically thinking about visualizing
the network,
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thinking about visualizing the internet
and how the internet is sort of touching us
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and we have this new connection culturally
to each other.
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And so I did.. this was maybe 3 or 4 years
ago,
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I did this sort of homage to wikipedia.
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I still love surfing wikipedia.
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For me as someone who sort of maybe has
a bit of nostalgia for the old days of the
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internet,
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I feel like wikipedia is one of these
few holdouts on the internet
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where there is semi-egoless uploads
still happening.
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You know?
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It's not necessarily...
people are making uploads not because
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they're trying to craft their own avatar online,
but they.. because they really want to explain
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how a doroknot (?) functions,
or they really want to explain
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how a boxer engine works, right,
it's content that if Konstant were here
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he would call media with an alibi, right?
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It's media that has reason for existing
beyond just sort of supporting our own
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online visions of who we are
and who we aren't.
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And so for this reason I really
love wikipedia.
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It feels like this really sort of
free and honest place to surf sometimes.
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And so, I made this series of eleven websites,
kind of as a monument to wikipedia,
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where I spent a summer just surfing
for animated GIFs on wikipedia
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which was a really awesome way
to spend the summer.
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And then, when I found ones that
I would wanna kind of use as raw materials
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I would just copy and paste it
a couple of hundred times
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and rename the files so
that when the browser tries to load it in
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it doesn't cache them all immediately.
It thinks they're all separate files.
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And so what ends up happening
is..
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And of course, it can't load them
all at once, right,
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so it just starts loading them in
as the packets are sort of delivered
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in this linear fashion, and..
so the pieces never quite look the same.
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They're all...
in a sense these kind of unique views
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were depending on your process,
your speed and what browser you're using
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and how fast your internet connection is.
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They're always gonna load in slightly different
as the packets sort of traverse the network
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in this linear fashion.
00:13:57.709 --> 00:14:00.829
And so what you get is.. are these compositions
that are very simple
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but they're not, in this case,
like a perfect circle, right?
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You kind of see this visualization
of the data kind of as it's going
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:08.399
through the network.
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:12.980
And if you view these same pieces
in the TOR browser,
00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:15.059
which I don't have to explain
what it is in this audience,
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:18.610
which is really fun for the first time,
laughing
00:14:18.610 --> 00:14:21.319
you get get a sense of how...
so this is the exact same website
00:14:21.319 --> 00:14:24.139
just viewed through TOR.
And you can see in the piece
00:14:24.139 --> 00:14:28.600
how the composition is altered, right,
because, as the pieces are moving around
00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.170
and it's being rerouted to different nodes,
they kind of come back together
00:14:31.170 --> 00:14:33.100
in a way that's very different
than the way it's happening
00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:36.119
as a straight connection
through Firefox, and so
00:14:36.119 --> 00:14:40.769
the resulting composition is less fluid,
it's more staggered and you can kind of..
00:14:40.769 --> 00:14:47.429
There is some kind of visual clue
of how that piece went through the network.
00:14:47.429 --> 00:14:51.019
Another series I've been doing
for several years now is..
00:14:51.019 --> 00:14:54.549
I've been archiving my own browsing folder,
my cache directory,
00:14:54.549 --> 00:14:57.949
I've been basically archiving that
every couple of weeks.
00:14:57.949 --> 00:15:01.569
And then when I get invited to show a piece
from that series I just basically..
00:15:01.569 --> 00:15:05.209
I use a image packing algorithm,
so just pack all these images
00:15:05.209 --> 00:15:08.569
into the smallest amount of room possible,
and I'll make these prints
00:15:08.569 --> 00:15:11.459
that are just straight print-outs of
my internet cache.
00:15:11.459 --> 00:15:14.879
So this is what one month
of my internet cache looks like.
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.369
That is what 3 months looks like.
00:15:18.369 --> 00:15:20.059
They're relatively uncensored.
00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:23.480
I go through it to look and make sure,
'cause sometimes my wife will use the computer,
00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.439
I'll make sure there is nothing of hers
she doesn't want on there,
00:15:26.439 --> 00:15:29.379
and I check it for banking details,
but besides that it's pretty..
00:15:29.379 --> 00:15:31.759
pretty much uncensored.
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.910
And so, it's meant to be..
I kind of think of them as self portraits.
00:15:35.910 --> 00:15:39.449
They're.. I think of them actually more
like false self portraits,
00:15:39.449 --> 00:15:43.579
'cause it's.. unless you truly think
that you are your browsing data,
00:15:43.579 --> 00:15:46.529
it's not.. it does.. it's..
these prints aren't who I feel like I am.
00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:50.309
But in.. I think over the long term
the idea is more they are meant
00:15:50.309 --> 00:15:53.470
to be this sort of portrait of the internet
at this one moment in time, right?
00:15:53.470 --> 00:15:59.459
And as sort of screen size has changed
and screens shift from our laps to our pockets,
00:15:59.459 --> 00:16:02.929
and as browser resolutions
and all these standards change,
00:16:02.929 --> 00:16:04.839
and the kind of fabric
of the web changes,
00:16:04.839 --> 00:16:08.179
and these prints hopefully,
when someone digs out of my basement,
00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:10.569
like, 20 years from now,
they'll have these sort of prints
00:16:10.569 --> 00:16:13.029
of what the internet felt like
in this one moment in time.
00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:16.089
That's the idea anyway.
00:16:16.089 --> 00:16:20.959
Another related series has to do
again with this kind of shift from
00:16:20.959 --> 00:16:21.929
the screen to the pocket.
00:16:21.929 --> 00:16:24.679
Like, I'm really sort of fascinated
with this idea of casual computing
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:26.879
which I feel..
I feel like that move when we started
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.739
having computers in our pockets
every day was a really fundamental shift.
00:16:30.739 --> 00:16:32.509
And so I had this series called
'Multi-touch Paintings',
00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:36.749
that are created just from,
basically just take a piece of tracing paper
00:16:36.749 --> 00:16:40.779
and put it over my phone and then
perform the sort of interface tasks
00:16:40.779 --> 00:16:41.730
that it asked me to do.
00:16:41.730 --> 00:16:46.209
So this one's called
'Slide to unlock'.
00:16:46.209 --> 00:16:48.709
This is a.. this one's called
'Zoom in, zoom out'.
00:16:48.709 --> 00:16:50.949
And they're literally just ink on paper.
00:16:50.949 --> 00:16:54.290
So the capacitive touch still works
through the paper
00:16:54.290 --> 00:16:58.069
and it's.. I'm kind of like a,
maybe a short term it's meant to be,
00:16:58.069 --> 00:17:01.199
maybe purely a visualization
in a sense.
00:17:01.199 --> 00:17:04.490
But I think maybe..
I hope that there's more, there is also
00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:07.319
like kind of an artistic side of these too,
where they're also kind of commenting
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.019
on the way we're consuming media
right now.
00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:11.250
So this one's called
'Next next next', right?
00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:13.589
So this is..
and 'next next next' is the way
00:17:13.589 --> 00:17:17.189
probably this piece will be consumed
in 99% of the time, right?
00:17:17.189 --> 00:17:19.319
For the 10 people that see this
hanging on a wall,
00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:22.388
the rest are just gonna 'next'
through this on instagram, right?
00:17:22.388 --> 00:17:26.880
And so it's meant to sort of,
kind of archive, like, the bug in amber
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.250
a little bit, these moments that
we're going through right now,
00:17:29.250 --> 00:17:31.179
where we're touching pixels
for the first time,
00:17:31.179 --> 00:17:36.059
and these things that kind of feel,
sort of high-tech in a sense,
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.240
but quickly are feeling very blunt,
like to me this feels like
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.830
a very blunt way to consume media,
a very blunt way to have a relationship
00:17:41.830 --> 00:17:43.860
with art.
NOTE Paragraph
00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:48.340
So hopefully it's commenting
on that a bit too.
00:17:48.340 --> 00:17:49.860
This is a related piece from the series.
00:17:49.860 --> 00:17:52.470
This is.. this piece is called 'Level Cleared'.
00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:56.029
This is me playing Angry Birds
from start to finish.
00:17:56.029 --> 00:17:57.360
Laughing And so..
Applause
00:17:57.360 --> 00:18:07.470
So the grid starts in the upper left corner
with level 1-1.
00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:11.389
Whoever else has a Angry.. or had
at one point an Angry Birds addiction,
00:18:11.389 --> 00:18:12.639
you know the level well.
00:18:12.639 --> 00:18:13.980
And then I just played straight through.
00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:17.299
It takes me full-time Angry Birds play,
like 8-10 hours a day for 3 days
00:18:17.299 --> 00:18:18.350
to get through.
00:18:18.350 --> 00:18:20.740
And they keep adding levels,
so when I have to remake the piece now
00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:23.330
it's even more of a nightmare.
00:18:23.330 --> 00:18:24.440
And it just marches straight through.
00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:29.320
I have one sheet per level..
per attempted level,
00:18:29.320 --> 00:18:31.370
and so again, this piece, like,
I've been thinking a lot about
00:18:31.370 --> 00:18:35.370
how the art.. how art and the internet
relate in terms of the consumption of art
00:18:35.370 --> 00:18:38.630
and how time is affected with
our consumption of art.
00:18:38.630 --> 00:18:42.769
And I was, actually, I was thinking about
conversations we had earlier
00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:43.090
on the F.A.T. days
00:18:43.090 --> 00:18:46.659
where we were both kind of joking at one point
about how we felt like the internet was
00:18:46.659 --> 00:18:50.470
sort of.. we always had to load projects up,
like, if we didn't release something in 2
00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:50.630
weeks,
00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:52.010
it was like we were
dead on the internet, right?
00:18:52.010 --> 00:18:54.370
And we felt this kind of like push
from the internet
00:18:54.370 --> 00:18:56.730
that we had to keep making and
keep making and keep making.
00:18:56.730 --> 00:18:58.880
And there was something interesting about
participating in that culture,
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:00.799
but then more and more
I've been thinking about
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.230
how can you maybe still contribute
and participate in that kind of consumption
00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:05.190
of media,
00:19:05.190 --> 00:19:08.330
but then have the same piece
mean something slightly different
00:19:08.330 --> 00:19:10.730
for people that are gonna invest
more amounts of time in it, right?
00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:15.100
And how pieces, even if people consume it
in a blog post title and have one reaction,
00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:17.510
which might be a familiar reaction
like laughter,
00:19:17.510 --> 00:19:19.730
which I actually really like
from this piece.
00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:23.510
I'm trying to embed in these
other kind of readings of the work,
00:19:23.510 --> 00:19:26.159
where you come in and you sit
on this bench, right,
00:19:26.159 --> 00:19:30.149
and this is maybe my interpretation
of the piece, right,
00:19:30.149 --> 00:19:33.620
and you sit in front of these, like
1500 sheets of paper
00:19:33.620 --> 00:19:36.380
and after the kind of wave of laughter
leaves you and you realize
00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:39.419
like, all the things I could have done
at that time, right?
00:19:39.419 --> 00:19:41.940
Like, I coulda learned French,
I coulda lost ten pounds,
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:46.080
I coulda learned how to cook more,
I could've read a whole bunch of books,
00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:48.799
and instead I was like just flicking,
like, birds at pigs
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.279
over and over and over and over again.
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.630
And so it's.. I like both readings.
00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.659
Like, I like the reading that..
it can be consumed in Instagram quickly.
00:19:57.659 --> 00:20:01.100
I like the reading..
I.. if people are able to sit with it
00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:05.240
and maybe contemplate these larger issues
I like it as well, but I think
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:08.750
in art-making right now there is this..
I'm trying to make work that isn't
00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:12.059
just addressing the internet's drive
to have things faster and quicker
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:13.720
and in blogpost titles, right?
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:19.039
'Cause I felt it sort of affected
the art I was making.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.860
And also the internet has like
fundamentally changed, right,
00:20:21.860 --> 00:20:26.809
like I think.. I think the times
that we were at IBM and
00:20:26.809 --> 00:20:29.299
we were doing F.A.T. Lab
and the times that we were
00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:31.919
sort of wrestling with that work -
things really changed, like,
00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:32.559
we all felt it.
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.990
And in this crowd I don't
really have to talk about it, right?
00:20:34.990 --> 00:20:40.259
But for a while, the internet to me
felt like this, and shame on me, you know?
00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:43.090
But as I've been making work and
the work's been changing,
00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:46.730
and my relationship to the internet
has been changing,
00:20:46.730 --> 00:20:49.299
and so I'm gonna into some things
that I know you all know,
00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:51.649
but this is kind of like my personal take
on it, right?
00:20:51.649 --> 00:20:55.029
My.. this is like how I came to think
about the situation that we're in now.
00:20:55.029 --> 00:20:57.450
I used to think the internet
was the Big Bang, right?
00:20:57.450 --> 00:20:58.539
That was how I was introduced to it.
00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:01.049
Like, I thought, holy shit, this is
gonna happen
00:21:01.049 --> 00:21:03.120
and it's just gonna keep multiplying,
getting bigger and bigger
00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:05.669
and there'll be a server for every interest,
and everybody'll be a publisher,
00:21:05.669 --> 00:21:07.730
everyone's gonna be empowered.
00:21:07.730 --> 00:21:11.480
And I thought it was this
Big Bang model of what was gonna happen.
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.419
And I think more and more that, like,
it's actually the Big Crunch model,
00:21:14.419 --> 00:21:16.700
which is when the universe expands
to a maximization point
00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:19.049
and then at some point starts
contracting down, right?
00:21:19.049 --> 00:21:23.490
And I think, I think that that middle point..
I think that middle point was when
00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:24.450
we accepted Gmail.
Laughter
00:21:24.450 --> 00:21:30.370
You know, I think once we, like,
culturally decided that
00:21:30.370 --> 00:21:33.009
someone could read our emails
and advertise us to our inbox,
00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:36.029
I really think people at Google
were just like, holy shit, like,
00:21:36.029 --> 00:21:38.509
'They bought it.'
Like, from that point on it was just really
00:21:38.509 --> 00:21:39.299
over.
00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:43.380
And so now it's been of course
condensing into fewer and fewer servers,
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:46.159
and.. anyway, we all know this stuff, right.
00:21:46.159 --> 00:21:50.470
And so this kind of like, this condensation
of the internet down to one point
00:21:50.470 --> 00:21:52.950
feels like it's happening.
00:21:52.950 --> 00:21:55.460
The kind of targeted marketing
that just was annoying at one point
00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:59.090
now feels really more sinister, like,
I mean, it was kind of ok
00:21:59.090 --> 00:22:00.769
to read our email and
advertise to us,
00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:03.399
but then when you start, like,
kind of snitching on us,
00:22:03.399 --> 00:22:06.230
that was just.. that was hard for me.
00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:09.049
Like, we don't even need to talk about this,
'cause I know it gets addressed all the time
00:22:09.049 --> 00:22:09.299
here.
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:13.100
But for me, as someone who is making art
that was engaged in the internet,
00:22:13.100 --> 00:22:17.240
and a lot of the inspirations that I was taking
for, from the kind of free culture movement
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:20.740
and free software movement,
engaged with the internet, and like,
00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:24.039
the convolution of these 3 things, of like,
monetization of the web,
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.000
the centralization of the web,
and then this kind of spying scandal.
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.850
They really left me in kind of like staggering
for ways to get back to making art
00:22:30.850 --> 00:22:34.630
about an internet that didn't feel
funny to me any more, right, like,
00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:36.820
the internet was ..
this is how I felt like.
00:22:36.820 --> 00:22:40.330
I felt like the lolcats were just
this Trojan horse, you know,
00:22:40.330 --> 00:22:44.340
and, and I.. after all this was sort of happening
I couldn't even see the cats
00:22:44.340 --> 00:22:45.090
on the internet any more.
00:22:45.090 --> 00:22:48.419
Like, I thought, the internet was
the land of the cats and unicorns,
00:22:48.419 --> 00:22:53.159
and now, the fur has kind of been removed
and you see the terminator's shiny skull
00:22:53.159 --> 00:22:55.679
and the red beady eye.
00:22:55.679 --> 00:22:58.710
And so if.. and just like from a personal
standpoint it got hard
00:22:58.710 --> 00:23:03.159
to get interested in making art
in that medium again.
00:23:03.159 --> 00:23:06.600
And so, that was like all leading up
to this talk,
00:23:06.600 --> 00:23:09.950
which maybe a lot of you
have seen either at transmediale last year,
00:23:09.950 --> 00:23:12.960
or here, or, I mean, around the internet.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.190
I thought it was in the internet
for a second there.
00:23:15.190 --> 00:23:19.019
This was Peter's talk at transmediale,
where he gets on stage
00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:21.200
and he basically says
'We've lost, and it's over.'
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:26.519
which is something I know that
we've heard here from Frank and Rop
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:27.549
10 years ago, right.
00:23:27.549 --> 00:23:29.350
I know this isn't a new narrative.
00:23:29.350 --> 00:23:33.169
But for me, Peter's talk came along
kind of at the right time,
00:23:33.169 --> 00:23:37.149
where.. like, the Pirate Bay, for me,
and the work that Piratbyran had been
00:23:37.149 --> 00:23:37.669
doing,
00:23:37.669 --> 00:23:42.220
has been really one of my main, like,
heroes, one of the main reasons
00:23:42.220 --> 00:23:43.379
I started making art.
00:23:43.379 --> 00:23:46.779
Like, the Pirate Bay for me is still,
I think, one of the most amazing things made
00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:47.519
during my lifetime.
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:51.799
And it was what really turned me,
kind of, from architecture to thinking about
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:53.990
how entertainment and activism
could overlap,
00:23:53.990 --> 00:23:55.659
and how people could really
change things
00:23:55.659 --> 00:23:59.570
and have kind of powerstructure-altering
things that we could contribute
00:23:59.570 --> 00:24:00.559
to culture.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.379
And when you have these kind of
personal heroes get on stage
00:24:03.379 --> 00:24:06.019
and tell you that that's over..
00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:08.899
When I happy to hear that
I had this kind of moment where I was like,
00:24:08.899 --> 00:24:11.649
why am I feeling happy about
hearing that, you know?
00:24:11.649 --> 00:24:13.490
And I realized that that was kind
of how I was feeling,
00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:18.159
and have somebody else say that..
it felt really.. good's the wrong word,
00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:22.299
but it felt.. strangely empowering
to sort of start to admit to myself
00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:25.659
that maybe the kind of ship
was sinking, right?
00:24:25.659 --> 00:24:30.879
And so, shortly after that we were also having
conversations within the F.A.T. Lab internally,
00:24:30.879 --> 00:24:34.279
and, not by unanimous decision
but by majority we decided
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.919
that we were gonna shut the doors
at F.A.T. Lab.
00:24:36.919 --> 00:24:39.960
And I won't speak for the group,
but my.. my personal thoughts on why
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:44.110
we.. they shut down, which maybe
isn't important in the greater sense,
00:24:44.110 --> 00:24:47.269
but just, kind of again, like as
a.. kind of my personal take
00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:50.960
on how I'm working through this stuff
was like.. I felt like F.A.T. Lab..
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.259
like the internet had sort of
outpaced us, like,
00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:56.830
that idea of radical entertainment
had a moment when there was
00:24:56.830 --> 00:25:00.710
a loophole in the media where
kind of companies and capitalism
00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:02.460
hadn't really figured out viral
marketing yet,
00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:06.129
and we had this.. this like big opening
where we could really speak to people
00:25:06.129 --> 00:25:08.769
on a larger platform because
there weren't whole divisions
00:25:08.769 --> 00:25:11.649
at Wieden+Kennedy that were just
trying to do this for the largest companies.
00:25:11.649 --> 00:25:15.309
Like, it was.. we figured that out first,
and so we had this kind of weakness
00:25:15.309 --> 00:25:16.809
that we could exploit.
00:25:16.809 --> 00:25:20.059
But as that changed we kind of failed
as a group, I think, to keep up
00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:23.009
with new modes of activism.
00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:25.129
And the other thing that I was sort of
feeling was that we were kind of
00:25:25.129 --> 00:25:30.190
providing this David and Goliath
narrative to people.
00:25:30.190 --> 00:25:33.759
Both within the group, they were
getting closer to sort of Silicon Valley,
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.279
and our audience, which I felt like
was getting closer and closer to Silicon Valley,
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.159
that like... people that were getting
entrenched more into that way of thinking
00:25:40.159 --> 00:25:44.049
were looking and enjoying our content
in a way that sort of felt uncomfortable in
00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:45.279
a way.
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:49.500
And it felt like the kind of humorous pranks
that we were pulling was helping them cope,
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:54.350
in a way, with the fact that they were
supporting that system.
00:25:54.350 --> 00:25:57.090
And... it kind of felt like we were
the comedian on the Titanic,
00:25:57.090 --> 00:25:58.730
like telling jokes as it was sinking.
00:25:58.730 --> 00:26:01.279
Or, it felt to me that way.
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.860
And so at some point it felt
more powerful to kind of just say
00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:08.169
'Goodbye' and maybe put a message
in a bottle and jump off the ship
00:26:08.169 --> 00:26:12.389
rather than sit there and keep
bailing out the ship, right?
00:26:12.389 --> 00:26:16.080
And so that's where I was
at the beginning of this year.
00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:17.850
And so the work that I'm gonna show
from this point on,
00:26:17.850 --> 00:26:21.789
which I think I still have.. yeah, ok,
25 minutes or so,
00:26:21.789 --> 00:26:24.500
is kind of the work I've been doing
to try to get back to that point
00:26:24.500 --> 00:26:29.259
that I had when I first saw FETCH
and FTP and kind of understood,
00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:31.250
in a very rudimentary way,
how the internet functions,
00:26:31.250 --> 00:26:33.279
and what that empowering
moment felt like,
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.700
and trying to struggle to get back
to a point where I could make art
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:38.039
that was engaged in the internet again.
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.409
And so, one way.. one way I started
that search was to sort of start
00:26:41.409 --> 00:26:44.789
from the beginning, and thinking about,
like, what is our cultural conception
00:26:44.789 --> 00:26:46.450
of what the internet is,
what it looks like.
00:26:46.450 --> 00:26:50.049
And we have generally a kind of
very poor visual metaphor
00:26:50.049 --> 00:26:51.159
for what the internet is, right?
00:26:51.159 --> 00:26:53.389
So this is just a google image search
for the word 'internet'
00:26:53.389 --> 00:26:55.919
which doesn't, to me,
feel very representative
00:26:55.919 --> 00:26:58.919
of what the network is
or what it feels like.
00:26:58.919 --> 00:27:02.169
And so I started to get more
into thinking about
00:27:02.169 --> 00:27:04.970
what it was, like,
it can't just be, you know,
00:27:04.970 --> 00:27:08.230
blue-glowing logos in clouds,
it has to be something physical.
00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:12.070
And so I started reading Andrew Blum's
book 'Tubes'.
00:27:12.070 --> 00:27:15.820
I started reading Neal Stephenson's
'Mother Earth Mother Board',
00:27:15.820 --> 00:27:18.809
which, if there is any sort of internet
infrastructure nerds,
00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:20.450
is like an amazing primer,
00:27:20.450 --> 00:27:23.440
kind of the first maybe seminal texts
about following internet cables
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.149
around the globe,
which is kind of understanding
00:27:26.149 --> 00:27:29.570
what it looks like in these moments
of transition, when it sort of
00:27:29.570 --> 00:27:33.499
enters the water and reaches the land.
00:27:33.499 --> 00:27:36.440
And one thing that Andrew Blum
talks about in his book is this idea
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.629
of these kind of like.. there's no
monuments for this thing that's really
00:27:40.629 --> 00:27:42.999
a major part of our sort of time
here on Earth,
00:27:42.999 --> 00:27:44.929
and maybe our part of culture.
00:27:44.929 --> 00:27:47.070
It seems like there's not
these places that we can kind of
00:27:47.070 --> 00:27:49.309
go visit and commune with
in the same way there are other
00:27:49.309 --> 00:27:50.179
architectural landmarks.
00:27:50.179 --> 00:27:54.490
And so you get these kind of like
lonely manhole covers
00:27:54.490 --> 00:27:58.549
on these very desolate beaches
in Nova Scotia.
00:27:58.549 --> 00:28:03.230
And so, at the same time that
I was sort of doing that research,
00:28:03.230 --> 00:28:07.049
and this is gonna sound like a big
left turn, but I'm gonna pull it back,
00:28:07.049 --> 00:28:08.870
at the same time I was doing
that research I was also working
00:28:08.870 --> 00:28:12.620
on another project that required
the use of an infra-red camera.
00:28:12.620 --> 00:28:15.259
And so I was kind of spending my time
doing this research and looking
00:28:15.259 --> 00:28:17.809
around the internet trying to find
really cheap infra-red cameras,
00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:20.090
'cause of course I'm an artist
and I'm broke,
00:28:20.090 --> 00:28:24.289
and I kept finding myself on these
websites of people selling technology
00:28:24.289 --> 00:28:27.669
to ghost hunters, which is a community
that I had no interactions with,
00:28:27.669 --> 00:28:32.620
no experience of, but they just had
really good cheap infra-red cameras.
00:28:32.620 --> 00:28:34.289
laughter
00:28:34.289 --> 00:28:37.220
And I was like, I was sitting there
in these online ghost hunting shops,
00:28:37.220 --> 00:28:38.269
and they were amazing.
00:28:38.269 --> 00:28:41.409
Like, I felt myself having one of those
moments with technology,
00:28:41.409 --> 00:28:44.710
where.. that I hadn't felt in a long time,
it was just like a kid.
00:28:44.710 --> 00:28:47.499
Like, looking at this technology,
I mean, like 'What the fuck is this,
00:28:47.499 --> 00:28:50.749
like, why, I don't understand!'
and they..
00:28:50.749 --> 00:28:53.649
But then I started to get interested in it
more on
00:28:53.649 --> 00:28:55.570
kind of like a metaphorical or conceptual
level,
00:28:55.570 --> 00:28:58.340
'cause what the ghost hunter..
ghost hunting community was..
00:28:58.340 --> 00:29:01.899
is kind of interested in doing is, they're..
they talk about disembodied human energy
00:29:01.899 --> 00:29:02.159
a lot,
00:29:02.159 --> 00:29:06.399
and so they're making tech to try to
visualize disembodied human energy.
00:29:06.399 --> 00:29:09.100
And in a sense this felt like what I was
trying to do with a lot of the work
00:29:09.100 --> 00:29:12.639
that I was doing, which was trying
to take all this kind of invisible momentum
00:29:12.639 --> 00:29:15.340
that's getting stored in servers and
going through the fibre-optic cables
00:29:15.340 --> 00:29:19.200
and thinking about ways to kind of visualize
that work to come to some understanding
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:19.799
of it.
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.299
And the ghost hunting community had this
amazing tech to do that with.
00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:26.669
And so then I started to go really deep
down this ghost hunting rabbit hole,
00:29:26.669 --> 00:29:30.480
which was another fun way to spend
three months on the internet. laughing
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.549
I'll show just one clip.. 'cause I'd
never seen any of this,
00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:36.370
so people that are familiar with
these communities, this is
00:29:36.370 --> 00:29:39.179
maybe old hat, but to me this
was like just fascinating.
00:29:39.179 --> 00:29:42.399
So this is.. they also come from where
I come from, so this is like,
00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:46.139
the Mid-West Spirit Organisation,
like they're all from the midwest
00:29:46.139 --> 00:29:46.720
in the US, right?
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:50.139
'Cause it's super boring there and
so apparently like.. laughing
00:29:50.139 --> 00:29:53.480
you either do drugs or you
hunt for ghosts, and.. laughing
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.070
so this is one from the Mid-West
Spirit Group, and this is one of
00:29:56.070 --> 00:29:57.529
many many clips on youtube.
00:29:57.529 --> 00:30:01.539
So this is a video shot in full-spectrum
camera, which is just a camera
00:30:01.539 --> 00:30:04.419
that has been modified you see
a little bit more of the ultra-violet spectrum
00:30:04.419 --> 00:30:07.299
and a little bit more of the infrared
spectrum, and the audio you're gonna hear
00:30:07.299 --> 00:30:11.159
is from what they call a spirit box,
which is essentially a hacked radio,
00:30:11.159 --> 00:30:11.950
that just keeps scanning,
00:30:11.950 --> 00:30:14.129
and I'll talk more about that in a bit.
00:30:14.129 --> 00:30:21.860
Guy: This is a device that you guys
can come forward any spirits and speak with
00:30:21.860 --> 00:30:22.350
me. (??)
00:30:22.350 --> 00:30:49.070
Ah, so, if you have a message, please
come forward and speak to me into this device.
00:30:49.070 --> 00:30:49.570
noise
Female voice: Hi.
Guy: Hi, tell me your name.
noise
noiseboop
noiseboopnoise
00:30:49.570 --> 00:30:52.009
Evan: Ok, I'll let you do your own
youtube searching for that.
00:30:52.009 --> 00:30:55.309
But even that idea, like, if you have
a message for me, come speak into this device,
00:30:55.309 --> 00:30:57.220
like, I wanna use that for like the title
of
00:30:57.220 --> 00:30:58.869
my next solo show, to me it's like sooo...
00:30:58.869 --> 00:31:01.509
there is like something happening there
that seems like a statement that
00:31:01.509 --> 00:31:03.440
is greater than the ghost hunting
community.
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.119
And also their relationship with technology
kind of feels very.. I mean it's strange to
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:07.419
say this
00:31:07.419 --> 00:31:13.480
'cause for me as a sort of non-believer
in ghosts I find the technology maybe
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.659
inherently flawed, but I.. the approach
seems so honest to me in a way.
00:31:17.659 --> 00:31:22.169
Like they're really setting out to make tools
in a very honest way, very little commercial
00:31:22.169 --> 00:31:22.259
interest,
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:25.590
to try to satisfy this niche community.
00:31:25.590 --> 00:31:27.580
So anyway, this is like a... it was really
getting
00:31:27.580 --> 00:31:29.509
back to sort of, like, DIY culture
00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:33.570
of people making technology
for their own needs.
00:31:33.570 --> 00:31:36.059
And it's a relatively self-aware community
too,
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:37.309
like they talk about this idea
00:31:37.309 --> 00:31:40.129
of matrixing a lot, which is the same as
apophenia, right.
00:31:40.129 --> 00:31:45.340
It's this idea that our brains are kind of
hardwired to find patterns in randomness.
00:31:45.340 --> 00:31:48.919
Like, they're aware of this.
And so scepticism is like a big badge,
00:31:48.919 --> 00:31:53.049
that people, if you wanna rise the ranks
in the paranormal community,
00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:57.529
you have to kind of debunk more
ghosts than you find, right?
00:31:57.529 --> 00:31:59.149
And this to me is something that's
really interesting too,
00:31:59.149 --> 00:32:02.320
'cause I think that they might actually
be more critical of the investigations
00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:04.340
they're doing than we're doing, right?
00:32:04.340 --> 00:32:08.700
And so then when we look and see
that we've got 5807 friend requests
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:12.190
it feels like this might be a matrixing
that we're doing with our own technology,
00:32:12.190 --> 00:32:14.139
with social media rather than
the ghost hunting.
00:32:14.139 --> 00:32:17.570
Or whether.. like, the kind of like popular
idea
00:32:17.570 --> 00:32:19.389
that technology can solve our problems,
00:32:19.389 --> 00:32:22.629
that we can explain all these complicated
problems in 13 minutes or less,
00:32:22.629 --> 00:32:26.629
and 120 characters or less, it seems
like maybe our relationship technology
00:32:26.629 --> 00:32:31.639
maybe isn't any more flawed than
their relationship with technology.
00:32:31.639 --> 00:32:37.879
And so I decided to sort of set out
on my own kind of... pilgrimage
00:32:37.879 --> 00:32:38.029
to the internet, right?
00:32:38.029 --> 00:32:40.580
In the same way the ghost hunters..
this isn't something that ghost hunters do
00:32:40.580 --> 00:32:42.769
kind of around the kitchen table
over coffee, right,
00:32:42.769 --> 00:32:46.899
they go to what they call 'areas of
activity', which are actually not graveyards,
00:32:46.899 --> 00:32:47.149
right.
00:32:47.149 --> 00:32:51.460
This would be an area of inactivity.
It's more, like, abandoned hospitals,
00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:55.470
or insane asylums, like areas where
activity happened.
00:32:55.470 --> 00:32:58.749
And so the.. because I wasn't looking
for ghosts, I'm looking for more
00:32:58.749 --> 00:33:04.309
of this, like, reforged relationship
with a.. an innocence lost of the internet.
00:33:04.309 --> 00:33:07.289
The area that I decided to go to,
which is talked about a lot by
00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:12.119
Stephenson's 'Mother Earth Mother Board'
article, is this Porthcurno beach,
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:15.330
which is.. if you're in the UK and you
just keep driving west as far as you can
00:33:15.330 --> 00:33:19.899
until.. literally when the land ends
there's a hotel called Land's End,
00:33:19.899 --> 00:33:25.450
and when you're there, you're
within, like, 3 km of really cool stuff.
00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:31.669
So you're in.. you're where 15% of the global
internet flows through fibre-optic cables.
00:33:31.669 --> 00:33:34.919
It's historically where the pirate ships
would hide in the coves.
00:33:34.919 --> 00:33:38.350
2000 BC it was where all the standing-stone
circles..
00:33:38.350 --> 00:33:41.119
there's all these standing stones in this
area.
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:44.919
It's where in 1870 the first telegraph came
out
00:33:44.919 --> 00:33:46.440
of the ocean, the exact same beach
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:48.379
that the fibre-optic cables are at now.
00:33:48.379 --> 00:33:53.480
2 km up the beach is where Marconi
was building these amazing structures
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:56.179
to send the first wireless transmissions
over the Atlantic,
00:33:56.179 --> 00:34:01.360
all within this super-remote area
way out at the west of the UK.
00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:06.249
And so, I made my map and I had
my little destinations I wanted to go to,
00:34:06.249 --> 00:34:10.800
I rented a car, I got my gear.
I had a mix of, like, ghost-hunting gear
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.310
that I bought and some that I'd made,
and some just other devices that I'd thought
00:34:14.310 --> 00:34:17.060
might come in handy.
00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:20.550
And I started by doing something that
Neal Stephenson suggested to do
00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:23.500
if you're hunting for the internet,
which is to follow the manholes.
00:34:23.500 --> 00:34:26.150
And so I started just following
the manholes.
00:34:26.150 --> 00:34:29.730
And.. it really.. it's.. so when you're on
these like surfer beaches,
00:34:29.730 --> 00:34:33.420
where nobody is and you see
like 30 manholes in the parking lot
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:35.949
that's meant just to get to the beach
to go surfing,
00:34:35.949 --> 00:34:38.719
you're probably getting close.
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.170
On these little farmroads that
were just out in the middle of nowhere
00:34:41.170 --> 00:34:45.210
with just sheep kind of grazing,
every once in a while there'd be a driveway
00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:49.290
that had these really large sort of
access covers,
00:34:49.290 --> 00:34:52.460
and when you looked, they're designed
to look like these typical british country
00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:53.000
houses,
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:56.880
but on closer inspection you can see
that there's all these extra security measures
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:02.690
and blacked-out windows,
and so this is a internet landing location.
00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:06.810
Farms that have way more airconditioning
than they need for the .. laughing .. sheep.
00:35:06.810 --> 00:35:09.860
That's probably a good sign
you're getting close.
00:35:09.860 --> 00:35:15.130
But I wasn't.. I wasn't really interested
in.. as a sort of journalistic endeavour,
00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:18.320
like, it was really more.. I wanted to
sort of step away from the computer
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.630
for a moment,
I wanted to get out into nature
00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:24.600
and I wanted to sort of just see
what it felt like to stand on top of that
00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:24.760
cable,
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.470
you know, what would it feel like to stand
on top of this cable where 25% of the traffic
00:35:28.470 --> 00:35:30.720
was flowing through.
00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.970
And so I started taking this series of
landscapes, like just landscape photography.
00:35:34.970 --> 00:35:39.300
Sometimes.. sometimes the cable was
within the frame.
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:42.170
When I took this photo I actually didn't know
exactly what I was shooting,
00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:46.040
but in this frame is both the cable and
the GCHQ-tapped cable,
00:35:46.040 --> 00:35:50.490
which you can kind of see the dishes
up there in the background.
00:35:50.490 --> 00:35:55.570
But it's.. it was less for me about, like,
those actual recording the cables, the dishes.
00:35:55.570 --> 00:35:58.880
It was more about something that I read about
in Andrew Blum's book,
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.830
was there's this really interesting phenomena
that happens when you go hunting for the internet,
00:36:02.830 --> 00:36:05.090
which is like you end up in these super-remote
locations,
00:36:05.090 --> 00:36:08.330
like you're trying to go have this research
and
00:36:08.330 --> 00:36:09.110
experience with telecommunications,
00:36:09.110 --> 00:36:12.640
but you end up like on these really
lonely beaches which is by design
00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:15.930
'cause they don't want cables and nets
around them.
00:36:15.930 --> 00:36:19.460
Many times you don't have 3G or cellphone
service, and it's kind of just you and like,
00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:19.610
you know,
00:36:19.610 --> 00:36:22.760
this lonely beach.
It's.. this.. sort of interesting,
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.620
for me it was really beautiful, like,
It really felt.. it felt good.
00:36:27.620 --> 00:36:30.470
So.. this is something I've been doing
more and more lately, and I just..
00:36:30.470 --> 00:36:33.850
I go to these places as a way,
not to necessarily document
00:36:33.850 --> 00:36:36.750
physical artifacts of the internet
but more just putting myself
00:36:36.750 --> 00:36:41.330
in sort of a place where I wanna
make art about the internet.
00:36:41.330 --> 00:36:44.090
And the internet manifests itself
in different ways in different countries.
00:36:44.090 --> 00:36:48.850
In the UK, it's just these wooden signs,
this is.. it's just a yellow wooden sign
00:36:48.850 --> 00:36:52.600
that says 'telephone cable' on it,
which is like the most beautiful
00:36:52.600 --> 00:36:57.410
kind of, like, anticlimactic understated
monument you could have, right?
00:36:57.410 --> 00:37:02.370
So this is one of the biggest global
internet connection points in the world
00:37:02.370 --> 00:37:05.150
and it's just this little tiny sign, you know?
00:37:05.150 --> 00:37:08.670
And to me that was really perfect
in a way, like, I was.. I was really..
00:37:08.670 --> 00:37:11.100
it felt good that it was that, and
that something else.
00:37:11.100 --> 00:37:15.560
And.. so at the same time I was taking that
photography, I was also taking readings
00:37:15.560 --> 00:37:18.440
with this series of ghost-hunting devices.
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:22.060
This is probably my favourite one,
this is called the Ovilus 3.
00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:25.560
This is by a company called 'Digital Dowsing',
which is a really great name for
00:37:25.560 --> 00:37:31.550
a ghost-hunting tech company,
made by Bill Chappell.
00:37:31.550 --> 00:37:35.300
And so the Ovilus 3 has this
kind of like old.. it's called visual draw
00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:36.790
mode.
00:37:36.790 --> 00:37:40.900
And based on kind of EMF and temperature
readings, it has this drawing system,
00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:42.560
that it spits out.
00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:46.020
And so at every place that I was taking
a photograph I was also taking this reading
00:37:46.020 --> 00:37:48.860
with this ghost-hunting device.
00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:53.150
And so, this manifested in different ways.
When I showed in the gallery one way was
00:37:53.150 --> 00:37:58.730
in this series of essentially paired landscape
photography where on the top is just a photograph
00:37:58.730 --> 00:38:01.790
from these various places and then on the
bottom
00:38:01.790 --> 00:38:03.970
sort of laser-etched into the surface of the
print
00:38:03.970 --> 00:38:07.490
are these readouts from the ghost-hunting
device.
00:38:07.490 --> 00:38:10.510
Which is kind of.. even.. even if you didn't
know
00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:12.170
that came to the piece and didn't know the
background
00:38:12.170 --> 00:38:16.110
there's meant to be this kind of play between
analogue and digital and this play between
00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:21.880
kind of the spiritual and the real,
and when you view these prints,
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:23.960
you kind of have the same interaction with
the print
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:25.640
that I was having when I was documenting them,
00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:29.150
which was you.. you had this kind of natural
position when you're kind of viewing
00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:29.910
the horizon line,
00:38:29.910 --> 00:38:31.330
and then when we kind of check our phones,
right,
00:38:31.330 --> 00:38:33.140
and it's kind of like this all day long.
00:38:33.140 --> 00:38:35.030
And so the pieces are meant to have that as
well,
00:38:35.030 --> 00:38:37.040
where you.. you kind of look at the horizon
line
00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:40.950
on the photo and then you kind of bend down
to look at the little digital read-out.
00:38:40.950 --> 00:38:46.350
So this was.. this was one of the series from
an exhibition I did in London last year.
00:38:46.350 --> 00:38:52.720
6 months ago - no, 3 months ago
I got an invitation to come to New Zealand
00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:58.090
which is a place that was on my kind of like
bucket list for internet exploratory research
00:38:58.090 --> 00:38:58.560
purposes,
00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:01.170
because New Zealand has this.. this.. they
have
00:39:01.170 --> 00:39:02.970
more than 2 cables, but there is 1 cable
00:39:02.970 --> 00:39:06.280
called the Southern Cross Network,
which is essentially its main connection
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.510
to the globe, and it comes in
on the West Coast and then
00:39:09.510 --> 00:39:15.490
crosses, like, I don't... like 30 km maybe,
and then exits on the right.
00:39:15.490 --> 00:39:18.240
So it comes over from Australia,
goes underground for a very short
00:39:18.240 --> 00:39:22.270
amount of time, then bounces off
for essentially California.
00:39:22.270 --> 00:39:28.120
And that's its main connection
to the world, these 2 very actually unguarded
00:39:28.120 --> 00:39:31.500
connection points.
I.. maybe in the Q&A I can talk about more..
00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:31.960
about that.
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:36.760
But basically, on this trip I got..
I mean I got there and they were doing
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:37.210
construction work
00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:41.510
and the cable was just really there, like,
it was dug up and in a puddle
00:39:41.510 --> 00:39:43.790
and just sitting there next to this military
compound
00:39:43.790 --> 00:39:45.750
with like this military airstrip
00:39:45.750 --> 00:39:48.040
with like planes taking off.
00:39:48.040 --> 00:39:51.100
And I was there for 2 hours with a ghost-hunting
device just kind of touching the cable
00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:54.960
and nobody said anything.
It was amazing. laughing
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.770
And.. prior to this trip though I was doing
more kind of research to try and understand
00:39:58.770 --> 00:40:03.210
what the internet really really was,
and.. there's a lot of people in the room
00:40:03.210 --> 00:40:06.510
who are more, who have more technical
knowledge than I do, so if I'm..
00:40:06.510 --> 00:40:10.050
if I'm misquoting things please tell me
afterwards so I can update this.
00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:13.670
But my.. my current understanding is that
what's going through the fibre-optic
00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:20.550
is essentially infrared.. infrared laser light
that's being modulated at different frequencies
00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:25.350
that kind of centre around
this 1550 nm mark, right.
00:40:25.350 --> 00:40:34.010
And so give or take a few nm, the internet
happens generally in this near-infrared spectrum.
00:40:34.010 --> 00:40:40.470
Which is interesting to me as kind of an artmaker,
because most of our digital devices can sense
00:40:40.470 --> 00:40:45.320
in that near-infrared spectrum, in that same
1550 nm range.
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:48.210
So most.. most digital cameras you can open
up
00:40:48.210 --> 00:40:50.170
and .. if you go all the way down to the CCD
00:40:50.170 --> 00:40:54.110
you can take off the infrared-blocking chip
and you get left with a camera that senses
00:40:54.110 --> 00:40:55.930
that light, and you can put another lens
on top
00:40:55.930 --> 00:40:58.140
that blocks everything but the infrared light,
00:40:58.140 --> 00:40:59.730
and then you're left with a device that's
kind of
00:40:59.730 --> 00:41:01.390
in my head anyway,
00:41:01.390 --> 00:41:06.720
sensing the world in the same sort of spectrum
that's going through the fibre-optic cable.
00:41:06.720 --> 00:41:10.180
So these tutorials are. have.. this presentation
I'm gonna have a link to at the end,
00:41:10.180 --> 00:41:14.450
so the links are here but this is from a website
called Life Pixel which has really amazing
00:41:14.450 --> 00:41:19.370
like screw-by-screw tutorials for how to do
this with most consumer and like prosumer
00:41:19.370 --> 00:41:21.870
digital cameras.
00:41:21.870 --> 00:41:24.710
And so then I started shooting these..
these are photographs from
00:41:25.230 --> 00:41:32.590
this is from the West Coast of New Zealand,
shot with this modified Lumix GF1 camera.
00:41:32.590 --> 00:41:36.400
And so it started like.. I had this feeling
where
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:38.670
the visuals that these cameras were giving,
00:41:38.670 --> 00:41:42.040
like.. in.. there's like a technical connection
to the internet, but for me there was also
00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:46.410
sort of a visual connection where
the photos had the sort of feeling
00:41:46.410 --> 00:41:49.450
that I was having, they were sort of these
dark strange glimpses of the internet,
00:41:49.450 --> 00:41:54.060
that wasn't Nyan cats and unicorns, right,
it was this kind of, like, darker stranger
00:41:54.060 --> 00:41:54.510
view
00:41:54.510 --> 00:41:57.910
of what the internet landscape looked like,
and the more I was taking photos
00:41:57.910 --> 00:42:02.040
the sort of less and less interested I got
in actually shooting a cable
00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:05.780
and the more and more interested I got
in just what these landscapes looked like.
00:42:05.780 --> 00:42:10.060
And so in this example you can kind of see
the dirt that's kind of slowly growing over
00:42:10.060 --> 00:42:15.700
from where the trench was dug,
or in this one.. from this distance
00:42:15.700 --> 00:42:18.230
you can't see anything.
There's a small moment where like
00:42:18.230 --> 00:42:21.030
an old coaxial cable kind of
comes out of that cliff.
00:42:21.030 --> 00:42:24.810
But for me it's more about really
thinking about like an old-school artform,
00:42:24.810 --> 00:42:26.810
of like the landscape, and trying to think
about
00:42:26.810 --> 00:42:29.400
how I can make these landscape images
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:33.400
that are sort of reflective both of the
physical landscape and of our kind of like
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:35.690
network landscape and cultural landscape.
00:42:35.690 --> 00:42:39.480
So these are just some of the kind of images
I was taking on this New Zealand trip.
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:43.240
And yeah, again, sometimes there is like
no visual evidence,
00:42:43.240 --> 00:42:48.160
sometimes it's just.. just a tree that happens
to be growing on top of the internet.
00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:50.340
And so I'm still.. this is stuff I'm still
going
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:51.840
through at the moment.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.820
Now I'm kinda drifting into
works in progress,
00:42:54.820 --> 00:43:00.450
but where I'm thinking this is going
in one way is a series of new websites
00:43:00.450 --> 00:43:05.110
that I'm gonna be making that
are really boring.
00:43:05.110 --> 00:43:07.370
I think there's like a really big
market in boring in the arts
00:43:07.370 --> 00:43:08.140
that's coming up.
00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:10.500
Like I think we've had enough
of this like really quick stuff,
00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:13.780
so now I'm gonna take it back,
and so I'm making pieces that are..
00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:16.170
I had these experiences..
so these are tripod shots.
00:43:16.170 --> 00:43:19.170
I'm shooting usually like 10-15
minute tripod shots at these
00:43:19.170 --> 00:43:24.100
different locations, and...
so these are really quiet moments,
00:43:24.100 --> 00:43:28.390
essentially just video streaming
into a browser,
00:43:28.390 --> 00:43:31.870
and part of the idea is like giving..
forcing people to have the experience
00:43:31.870 --> 00:43:35.240
that I was having, so it's..
I would find myself in these amazing locations
00:43:35.240 --> 00:43:38.400
and sometimes there'd even be like
whales breaching in the background
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:41.750
and like 7 minutes into the shot
I'd catch myself, like, you know,
00:43:41.750 --> 00:43:45.770
bending down to the phone again,
and like, even in this like amazing environment
00:43:45.770 --> 00:43:49.190
like I was having a hard time
breaking out of that really like rapid-phased
00:43:49.190 --> 00:43:52.440
sort of click-bait mentality that I'm starting
to fall into as well,
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.590
and so I want these websites to be
super super boring,
00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:59.520
like, more contemplative, more
on the timeline of what viewing nature is
00:43:59.520 --> 00:43:59.570
like
00:43:59.570 --> 00:44:02.760
rather than what viewing the web is like.
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.290
So this is.. this is the triangular sign here
is
00:44:05.290 --> 00:44:07.610
what the cable signs look like in New Zealand,
00:44:07.610 --> 00:44:11.230
which is, if there's any copy-me fans, like,
when I got out there and found
00:44:11.230 --> 00:44:13.530
that there's this like beautiful triangle,
like, standing over the internet,
00:44:13.530 --> 00:44:15.650
was like an amazing moment for me.
00:44:15.650 --> 00:44:20.000
But the.. so these websites are gonna be
different websites.. each website will
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:26.240
just have one video flowing through it,
slow, infrared video shots with this sort
00:44:26.240 --> 00:44:27.140
of audio
00:44:27.140 --> 00:44:32.410
in the background. The audio is made
from my own ghost-hunting tech,
00:44:32.410 --> 00:44:34.610
which I'll be releasing when I get finished
with all the stuff.
00:44:34.610 --> 00:44:36.790
So this is my own version of the
spirit box,
00:44:36.790 --> 00:44:39.280
where, instead of just scanning through
the radio, I have it hooked up
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.700
to a pulse sensor,
so it's skipping through the radio stations
00:44:42.700 --> 00:44:43.760
based on my heart beat.
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.260
So every time my pulse goes
it switches radio stations.
00:44:47.260 --> 00:44:52.140
And.. so the audio is like.. yah, it looked..
I looked rather strange like just kind of
00:44:52.140 --> 00:44:52.410
sitting there
00:44:52.410 --> 00:44:54.930
trying to commune with the internet, like,
hooked put to this heart monitor
00:44:54.930 --> 00:44:57.090
and this infrared camera.
00:44:57.090 --> 00:44:59.580
But the pieces are sort of meant to
kind of hopefully give
00:44:59.580 --> 00:45:02.150
some of those feelings I was having
when I was there.
00:45:02.150 --> 00:45:07.420
And the other idea is that these videos
are all gonna be located in servers
00:45:07.420 --> 00:45:10.660
that are as close as possible to where
I shot them, so
00:45:10.660 --> 00:45:13.990
I'm actually thinking of them less as websites
as kind of like network-specific videos.
00:45:13.990 --> 00:45:18.980
And so, in the New Zealand example,
I have server space in New Zealand now,
00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:22.850
where these videos are hosted,
so that when you view the video,
00:45:22.850 --> 00:45:26.940
it loads into the browser and it's
streaming.. you know, chances are,
00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:29.730
you have like kind of like a 50-50 chance
depending on what country you are in,
00:45:29.730 --> 00:45:34.110
that the video, as it's being converted into
the same spectrum that it's shot in,
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:39.450
is also streaming kind of like just underneath
the frame there.
00:45:39.450 --> 00:45:42.160
And so even though you can't kind of
witness this visually, the idea is like
00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.410
trying to.. kind of like I was doing with
the
00:45:45.410 --> 00:45:47.240
wikipedia series.. like trying to come up
00:45:47.240 --> 00:45:50.440
with not just a piece that's kind of
a visual aesthetic of the internet,
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:54.540
but something that's really kind of about
an experience of the network.
00:45:54.540 --> 00:45:57.310
And then the last sort of thing
I'm playing with is the..
00:45:57.310 --> 00:46:01.610
they're gonna be all hosted at these URLs,
that when you copy and paste the URL
00:46:01.610 --> 00:46:07.550
into a mapping application, the URL is
actually a GPS coordinate,
00:46:07.550 --> 00:46:11.720
so if you paste the URL into Google Maps,
it'll take you to the exact location
00:46:11.720 --> 00:46:12.940
where the camera was housed (?).
00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:16.500
And so, in Google Earth you can
kind of see the triangular sign and the tree
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:22.480
that is the same sign and tree
from the image.
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:24.920
And so, I'm kind of playing with the idea
of the URL as being both
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:32.710
an address on the globe and the network,
and trying to tie again together these 2 things.
00:46:32.710 --> 00:46:37.230
And part of this for me is again, like,
without being too nostalgic for the internet
00:46:37.230 --> 00:46:37.900
of old,
00:46:37.900 --> 00:46:43.470
allow the influences that I'm drawing from,
from the kind of earlier net art scene
00:46:43.470 --> 00:46:49.150
was characterized with this kind of classic
net art diagram, where.. the art happens here,
00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:49.360
right,
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:53.700
like it's not.. there was this big push
in the earlier net art wave that wasn't about
00:46:53.700 --> 00:46:58.690
having kind of imagery that was sort of
quasi-antithetic(?) of the internet
00:46:58.690 --> 00:47:01.830
coming on tumbler and being printed
in 3D printing into objects (?)
00:47:01.830 --> 00:47:03.730
and showing up in a gallery,
but it was really thinking
00:47:03.730 --> 00:47:07.470
more fundamentally about
the internet as a platform and a vehicle
00:47:07.470 --> 00:47:13.460
for viewing art and art that can only
happen within that medium.
00:47:13.460 --> 00:47:16.640
And so I'm kind of trying to take
that idea that's an old one,
00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:19.950
and overlay that diagram on top
of something that's like one step removed
00:47:19.950 --> 00:47:24.280
in terms of the metaphor, and thinking
about art that happens in a physical location
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.360
and in the network at the same time.
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:30.130
I could do one more project or we
could do Q&A,
00:47:30.130 --> 00:47:33.560
how much time do we have now,
5 more minutes?
00:47:33.560 --> 00:47:35.930
Maybe I'll wrap it up there.
Angel: ... 10-15 minutes...
00:47:35.930 --> 00:47:38.380
Evan: Ok, ok, I'll do one more project.
Ok.
00:47:38.380 --> 00:47:42.790
So that was.. that's going up to like
yah, 3.. this is now 2 months ago..
00:47:42.790 --> 00:47:46.430
3 months ago.
I got invited to do a piece in Paraguay
00:47:46.430 --> 00:47:50.030
which is not one of the main
internet hubs, globally.
00:47:50.030 --> 00:47:53.190
But I decided to kind of wrestle with a
different piece of the infrastructure of the
00:47:53.190 --> 00:47:53.270
internet,
00:47:53.270 --> 00:47:56.020
which is kind of the surface, right,
the place that we have this
00:47:56.020 --> 00:47:58.930
more immediate contact with the network.
00:47:58.930 --> 00:48:02.670
And.. 'cause I noticed when we.. when you
film
00:48:02.670 --> 00:48:05.420
devices in infrared it has this interesting
scenario
00:48:05.420 --> 00:48:10.310
where the visual spectrum is kind of inverted
in a way where.. the LEDs don't really
00:48:10.310 --> 00:48:13.790
emit much infrared light at all,
and so the screen, to the viewer,
00:48:13.790 --> 00:48:18.510
you see everything, but to the infrared camera
it's almost completely black.
00:48:18.510 --> 00:48:21.040
And similarly the kind of infrared lights
that sort of shine from the top
00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:23.540
of all of our iPhones at our faces
all the time,
00:48:23.540 --> 00:48:26.400
which we can't see with the naked eye,
become more and more apparent
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:27.550
when you're shooting with the infrared.
00:48:27.550 --> 00:48:32.340
And so, I started.. built this kind of contraption
that I set up in my hotel room
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:35.900
which looked really strange, and then
invited people to come up to the hotel room
00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:40.430
and kind of put their device on top of
this camera rig, and then
00:48:40.430 --> 00:48:43.550
the invitation was just to waste time,
like, again, trying to get back to this idea
00:48:43.550 --> 00:48:46.600
of casual computing, like,
what do you do when you're in line
00:48:46.600 --> 00:48:49.820
at the grocery store, waiting at the
doctor's office, like, what's your bag,
00:48:49.820 --> 00:48:51.890
is it Angry Birds, is it checking facebook?
00:48:51.890 --> 00:48:56.690
And I just said, 'here, waste 5 or 10 minutes'
and I would record them with this
00:48:56.690 --> 00:49:01.610
infrared camera and it's kind of..
in a way it's connected
00:49:01.610 --> 00:49:03.990
to the paranormal research,
but maybe it's more connected
00:49:03.990 --> 00:49:06.150
to the multi-touch series
that has to do with sort of
00:49:06.150 --> 00:49:09.690
backgrounding, the digital backgrounding,
the interface design and foreground
00:49:09.690 --> 00:49:11.420
in the human movement.
00:49:11.420 --> 00:49:15.510
And so, what you get left with is..
you see the way people are kind of moving
00:49:15.510 --> 00:49:21.890
over these different devices without seeing
these designs that the..
00:49:21.890 --> 00:49:23.530
that Apple and Google are designing for us.
00:49:23.530 --> 00:49:24.030
So I'll play just a minute what
that looks like.
00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:48.020
electronic noises like birds and bass
00:49:48.020 --> 00:50:13.670
Evan: A little boring, right?
00:50:13.670 --> 00:50:19.920
No, but that piece is meant to be this..
have this kind of..
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.240
these things that kind of feel so natural
and we get so into it,
00:50:22.240 --> 00:50:24.330
and when you kind of remove
what's actually happening,
00:50:24.330 --> 00:50:27.390
it kind of ends up looking and
sounding so alien, right?
00:50:27.390 --> 00:50:30.780
The audio is actually just from
a contact mic that's placed in the back,
00:50:30.780 --> 00:50:37.400
so it's not.. it's just an analog microphone
picking up the kind of soft fingertaps on
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:37.500
the screen.
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:39.540
And so the.. it became just this series of
people
00:50:39.540 --> 00:50:41.460
that sort of agreed to meet with me
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:45.680
and give me 5 or 10 minutes of their
computing time, shown in the gallery
00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:49.900
of this kind of series of again of like
portraits through technology.
00:50:49.900 --> 00:50:53.540
It's called 'Dances for Mobile Phones'.
It's meant to be idea
00:50:53.540 --> 00:50:55.020
that we're kind of dancing for them.
00:50:55.020 --> 00:50:59.620
Anyway, so I'll leave it there.
So this is me, kind of struggling through,
00:50:59.620 --> 00:51:03.820
trying again to make work and trying
to find these sort of optimistic paths
00:51:03.820 --> 00:51:07.450
through a kind of increasingly dark
internet landscape
00:51:07.450 --> 00:51:11.100
and get back to this kind of more
magical moment I first had
00:51:11.100 --> 00:51:14.750
when we first kind of understood
what technological empowerment felt like.
00:51:14.750 --> 00:51:17.050
So thank you so much for spending
the hour with me,
00:51:17.050 --> 00:51:19.810
and if there's any Q&A, I think we have
a couple of minutes now.
00:51:19.810 --> 00:51:21.950
Thank you.
00:51:21.950 --> 00:51:33.500
applause
00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:37.080
applause
00:51:37.080 --> 00:51:42.780
Angel: Thank you so much for your
phenomenal talk, Evan,
00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:46.220
I think you can tell by the applause that
the people really really liked it.
00:51:46.220 --> 00:51:47.770
Evan: Thank you.
Angel: It was really awesome.
00:51:47.770 --> 00:51:51.130
Angel: So we have another 5-10 minutes
for questions and answers.
00:51:51.130 --> 00:51:54.120
If you ask questions, please move to the
microphones.
00:51:54.120 --> 00:51:58.780
We have 4 microphones here in the hall.
Do we have any question from the internet?
00:51:58.780 --> 00:52:02.890
Internet? No? Alrighty. So we'll start
with this question from over there.
00:52:02.890 --> 00:52:09.390
Question: I really liked your term 'disembodied
human energy'. I'm gonna start using that
00:52:09.390 --> 00:52:09.850
"DHE".
00:52:09.850 --> 00:52:12.580
Evan: It's not my term, but I like it too.
00:52:12.580 --> 00:52:17.070
Q: I've been writing about that as well
from the dark side of how the internet
00:52:17.070 --> 00:52:23.070
and digital culture is affecting our
behaviours and society, and was
00:52:23.070 --> 00:52:28.010
kind of putting that into terms of
disembodying experience.. disembody..
00:52:28.010 --> 00:52:35.240
disembodied information, and I'm really
going after that a lot in terms of
00:52:35.240 --> 00:52:42.580
analyzing digital culture, and just
wondering what you think we might do
00:52:42.580 --> 00:52:48.690
in order to reembody our culture more
and not get so lost in these
00:52:48.690 --> 00:52:53.780
technological things that we can do,
but to, like, I just was covering
00:52:53.780 --> 00:53:01.440
the failed Paris climate summit,
and I feel like the corporate agenda
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.810
is liking that we are going more
and more into a disembodied place,
00:53:05.810 --> 00:53:10.540
because it can capture our energy more.
So I'd just like to ask you
00:53:10.540 --> 00:53:15.440
if you have any ideas, what we can do
to be more reembodying our experiences.
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:21.450
Answer: Yah.. no, good question.
I mean, I can only talk about what I'm..
00:53:21.450 --> 00:53:27.060
how I'm kind of wrestling with it.
In.. one sort of decision I made as an artist,
00:53:27.060 --> 00:53:29.910
kind of, is like I feel like I make better
work when I'm optimistic
00:53:29.910 --> 00:53:33.370
rather than pessimistic.
Like, I think, anyone who suffered
00:53:33.370 --> 00:53:36.400
through depression, like, you know,
or had people around you with depression,
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.640
it's not a good place to be in when you
wanna make thin.. produce things, right?
00:53:39.640 --> 00:53:43.050
And so, part of it is like just finding ways
to fall in love with it again.
00:53:43.050 --> 00:53:45.950
And so, for me that was part of it,
it was just trying to find ways
00:53:45.950 --> 00:53:49.840
to kind of fall in love with things again,
to the point where I really want to make them.
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:54.190
And the other one, for me, too, I mean
I know there's whole movements of people
00:53:54.190 --> 00:53:56.470
who are doing these kind of digital retreat
things which is something I hadn't
00:53:56.470 --> 00:54:01.710
participated in in a formal setting,
but for me just getting away for a moment
00:54:01.710 --> 00:54:04.860
and having these excuses, even for just
a few days or a week, to sort of
00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:09.740
exist by myself without connection..
I know it's nothing new, I know
00:54:09.740 --> 00:54:12.320
that people are talking about this,
but it had a real effect on me.
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.340
I mean, one thing that i noticed was,
I was much more present, like,
00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:18.320
especially on the UK trip, where..
these are like really cliffy regions,
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:21.340
you know, so a lot of the hiking trails
that I was shooting on were like
00:54:21.340 --> 00:54:24.820
really steep drop-off on the other side
of this path, and so I couldn't even do
00:54:24.820 --> 00:54:27.860
what I normally do, even when I'm away
from email, but I'm walking around the city
00:54:27.860 --> 00:54:30.830
and I'm still thinking about.. 'Oh, I gotta
email this person, I gotta do that..'
00:54:30.830 --> 00:54:34.560
I'm not really present, right.
And I noticed that I had to, like,
00:54:34.560 --> 00:54:37.570
stop doing that because I kept
slipping and falling and, like,
00:54:37.570 --> 00:54:40.110
I didn't wanna die.
And so I had this moment
00:54:40.110 --> 00:54:43.290
being out in nature again, where,
not only was I away from the tech,
00:54:43.290 --> 00:54:46.660
but mentally I had to step away from it too,
just to be really thinking about
00:54:46.660 --> 00:54:50.900
'Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot'.
And being able to do that for a few days,
00:54:50.900 --> 00:54:53.550
like, now, I'm lining up my schedule
throughout the year
00:54:53.550 --> 00:54:56.360
where I'm setting up these moments,
where I have that time to do it.
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:58.560
And, I don't know if that's the answer or
not,
00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:00.340
but for me it's been one way to deal with
it.
00:55:00.340 --> 00:55:03.420
Angel: Thank you very much. Next question
from this microphone please.
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:06.360
Q: Thank you very much.I don't know, is it
on?
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:08.710
Angel: Yeah, it's on. Just speak into it.
00:55:08.710 --> 00:55:11.810
Q: Thank you very much for your talk.
I'd actually, for me personally,
00:55:11.810 --> 00:55:18.290
I've been also struggling a lot with the
thought about the dark sides of the internet
00:55:18.290 --> 00:55:18.720
recently,
00:55:18.720 --> 00:55:21.590
and your talk actually gave me back a lot
of
00:55:21.590 --> 00:55:23.710
positive attitude about it, so
00:55:23.710 --> 00:55:27.870
that you very much for that.
But one question that I have:
00:55:27.870 --> 00:55:32.770
What is your 10-second definition of
what is art, for you?
00:55:32.770 --> 00:55:35.460
Evan: Oh my god.
laughing
00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:36.000
laughing
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.830
Evan: Alright, here's a short one I came up
with,
00:55:38.830 --> 00:55:41.560
'cause the long one's hard, right?
00:55:41.560 --> 00:55:46.830
I think design is creative work that is influenced
directly by money and art is creative work
00:55:46.830 --> 00:55:51.510
that is influenced indirectly by money.
And that's kind of the only difference.
00:55:51.510 --> 00:55:53.050
laughing
applause
00:55:53.050 --> 00:55:55.360
Q: Thank you.
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:59.220
Angel: Thank you. Next question from that
microphone over there.
00:55:59.220 --> 00:56:02.770
Q: Hi. So I wasn't familiar with your work..
I'm over here.
00:56:02.770 --> 00:56:05.930
I'm not familiar with your work, and
I really like it.
00:56:05.930 --> 00:56:09.620
And what I liked most about it is
really that sense of excitement and wonder
00:56:09.620 --> 00:56:15.630
that you first had when you discovered..
what was it? SCP? No, it was..
00:56:15.630 --> 00:56:18.080
Evan: Yeah, FETCH.
Q: Yeah, FETCH, right.
00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:20.640
That's sort of.. that's still there in many
ways,
00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:22.620
it's different, but it's still there.
00:56:22.620 --> 00:56:26.800
So, you know, I.. I recently discovered
physics, and I've had sort of
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:30.040
the same thing where I am like,
wow, we're able to understand things
00:56:30.040 --> 00:56:33.210
in a way that I didn't think it was
possible, because I hated physics
00:56:33.210 --> 00:56:36.230
in school, and realized that
this way it was taught
00:56:36.230 --> 00:56:39.620
that was really boring.
And so I'm thinking, ok,
00:56:39.620 --> 00:56:43.570
if I were to do something
like that, it requires you to
00:56:43.570 --> 00:56:46.280
sort of take that step away
from the technicality of it
00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:49.240
to see the technicality of it.
And how do you, with the internet,
00:56:49.240 --> 00:56:52.750
how are you able to keep that distance
and has that been a problem for you?
00:56:52.750 --> 00:56:57.110
Evan: I mean, maybe it's easier for me
because I'm not all that smart technically.
00:56:57.110 --> 00:57:00.910
I mean, it's not like I was ever so close,
like most of the code.. I had some
00:57:00.910 --> 00:57:04.440
formal training when I got to
graduate school, but I was never..
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:06.400
I'm not a very happy programmer.
00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.010
You know, it was never my kind of
native realm anyway,
00:57:09.010 --> 00:57:11.650
like, I came more from the design field.
00:57:11.650 --> 00:57:15.430
So it didn't feel like anything I was having
to turn off so much
00:57:15.430 --> 00:57:19.190
'cause maybe I wasn't ever all that
close to it, in a sense.
00:57:19.190 --> 00:57:22.570
I don't.. that's maybe a bad answer,
but it's probably the truth.
00:57:22.570 --> 00:57:24.440
I've been trying to get closer to physics
too.
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:25.230
Q: Yeah?
00:57:25.230 --> 00:57:28.510
Evan: Like for me, like, I'm super fascinated
by the electromagnetic spectrum right now.
00:57:28.510 --> 00:57:31.680
Like the answer's in there, somewhere,
I feel like, you know? laughing
00:57:31.680 --> 00:57:35.130
Q: Alright, thanks!
Angel: Awesome. Next question from here.
00:57:35.130 --> 00:57:41.050
Q: Ok, thanks. I just.. I mean, the idea
of understanding what's happening
00:57:41.050 --> 00:57:44.280
in the internet is quite important,
and I think we're a bit biased here
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:50.470
because we all have that visualization
of the internet, and
00:57:50.470 --> 00:57:54.200
my question now is:
Your visualization is of course very
00:57:54.200 --> 00:57:59.570
very valid and very vivid, but
all those people that.. that do those
00:57:59.570 --> 00:58:04.490
movements and they scroll facebook,
how can we make this visualization,
00:58:04.490 --> 00:58:08.830
because your.. yours is quite complicated,
actually, and not as fast.
00:58:08.830 --> 00:58:13.920
How could we.. how could we manage to
give.. give them some sort of visualization,
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.570
because what.. what they see is only
the apps, and they don't really
00:58:17.570 --> 00:58:19.380
get to think about it more.
00:58:19.380 --> 00:58:23.960
Evan: Yah. I don't know the answer to that.
I mean, it's.. for me, part of the reason
00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:27.880
that the infrastructure side is so interesting,
is that I think that there's something
00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:31.780
empowering about seeing what it is
and knowing how it works.
00:58:31.780 --> 00:58:34.620
Like, when it seems less mystical and
magical, like the cloud, of course,
00:58:34.620 --> 00:58:38.880
is this terrible metaphor that we all hate,
and I think once.. even when I'm explaining
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:43.510
my work to non-technical people,
the conversations I get into are actually
00:58:43.510 --> 00:58:46.050
kind of interesting, 'cause they're interested
in knowing that too, 'cause people
00:58:46.050 --> 00:58:48.510
don't really talk about it.
The media doesn't talk about it.
00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:51.040
The companies that are trying to sell
them services don't talk that way
00:58:51.040 --> 00:58:55.190
'cause it doesn't benefit them, right,
it's like... Apple, when your phone fills
00:58:55.190 --> 00:58:55.350
up,
00:58:55.350 --> 00:58:58.070
they just want you to click here to get
more cloud storage space, and
00:58:58.070 --> 00:59:01.630
they don't want you to know how to
plug in a cable and get it off.
00:59:01.630 --> 00:59:05.710
And so I think it's.. the question that
you're asking is one that I'm asking myself,
00:59:05.710 --> 00:59:09.580
like, how do you communicate some of these
ideas to people that are..
00:59:09.580 --> 00:59:12.870
I mean, I'm interested in both sides,
I'm interested in people that are
00:59:12.870 --> 00:59:16.050
technically adapt, having interesting ideas
and conversations around this,
00:59:16.050 --> 00:59:19.200
but then, how do you also communicate
to people that this is a new conversation
00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:21.760
to?
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.320
I don't know the answer to that,
that's what I'm trying to kind of wrestle
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:24.410
with
00:59:24.410 --> 00:59:25.230
in a sense.
00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:32.160
But I have.. I recently did a show in Florida
at a university, and the docents there,
00:59:32.160 --> 00:59:35.010
like the people that introduce people
to the work, were all like senior citizens
00:59:35.010 --> 00:59:38.610
that were volunteering time to the museum,
and they were one of the most engaged
00:59:38.610 --> 00:59:43.040
group of people I've ever had surrounding
my work, 'cause they.. they knew..
00:59:43.040 --> 00:59:46.380
it's not like they never heard of this stuff
before, but they had a relationship with
00:59:46.380 --> 00:59:49.850
technology, but they were more willing
to ask questions about it,
00:59:49.850 --> 00:59:52.670
like they weren't.. they didn't.. they didn't
care if it sounded stupid,
00:59:52.670 --> 00:59:56.220
and they were asking all those really
interesting questions, and
00:59:56.220 --> 00:59:58.840
seeing that happen to a community
of people who were maybe
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:03.450
a further step removed from technology
than I even am, that..
01:00:03.450 --> 01:00:05.960
it's not that it was successful, but
it felt to me that.. that they could
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:09.930
understand and have a relationship
to it as art pieces, meant that there
01:00:09.930 --> 01:00:14.200
was something there that was consumable
by people that weren't.. aren't in this room,
01:00:14.200 --> 01:00:15.060
you know?
01:00:15.060 --> 01:00:18.810
Angel: Alright, thank you.
As time is almost up, guy in orange,
01:00:18.810 --> 01:00:21.590
you got the honour of the last question.
01:00:21.590 --> 01:00:26.600
Q: With your browser cache thing,
I did something similar with my computer.
01:00:26.600 --> 01:00:30.650
I wrote a little script that runs in the
background and makes a screenshot
01:00:30.650 --> 01:00:32.710
every.. random seconds,
Evan: Ok.
01:00:32.710 --> 01:00:36.690
Q: And I had hoped about.. forgetting
about it, but actually the...
01:00:36.690 --> 01:00:44.670
the counterpart happened, that I checked
the screenshots for every moment
01:00:44.670 --> 01:00:47.620
I didn't have anything to do.
And my behaviour was extremely
01:00:47.620 --> 01:00:51.330
affected by it. Was.. did you have the
same feeling about your browser cache?
01:00:51.330 --> 01:00:53.000
Evan: Yeah.
Q: Ehm, work?
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.760
Evan: Maybe later we can trade notes,
I'd like to see your work.
01:00:56.760 --> 01:01:00.020
Exactly, like one of the main things
about that piece was like, it's like
01:01:00.020 --> 01:01:03.020
living with a security camera, right,
and you always know it's there,
01:01:03.020 --> 01:01:07.690
like, I've gotten better and better about
forgetting, but I still know it's there,
01:01:07.690 --> 01:01:11.050
I still think about it, and I tried to do
portraits of other people, like,
01:01:11.050 --> 01:01:15.380
friends, like who else you're gonna ask
to give your internet cache browsing data
01:01:15.380 --> 01:01:15.830
to,
01:01:15.830 --> 01:01:18.180
right?
And it's..I recognized it was like a really
01:01:18.180 --> 01:01:20.540
invasive question to ask people,
you know?
01:01:20.540 --> 01:01:23.490
You're really asking people.. I mean,
usually the cache people give me
01:01:23.490 --> 01:01:27.440
when I was making portraits of other people,
I would tell them and then they would surf
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.070
and give it to me.
Like, to just tell them, give me the cache
01:01:30.070 --> 01:01:30.260
that
01:01:30.260 --> 01:01:33.410
you didn't know I was gonna.. you didn't know
I was monitoring, is like a really
01:01:33.410 --> 01:01:36.050
invasive question to ask.
But yeah, it's like essentially learning to
01:01:36.050 --> 01:01:39.860
live with a security camera.
But that's meant to be kind of built into
01:01:39.860 --> 01:01:43.170
the piece, too, 'cause maybe, getting
back to the last question, like,
01:01:43.170 --> 01:01:46.320
one of the reactions I get from
when people see that work in the gallery is
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:51.110
like.. they're like, oh wow, that's a really..
maybe giving is the wrong word, but
01:01:51.110 --> 01:01:55.040
that's a lot of.. it's a lot of.. you're sharing
a lot, right, is the common reaction
01:01:55.040 --> 01:01:56.400
I get from people.
01:01:56.400 --> 01:02:00.240
And.. but part of the idea is then..
we're all kind of sharing this
01:02:00.240 --> 01:02:03.000
in different ways, right,
this print, just because I put it in the gallery
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.780
doesn't mean there's any more or less
eyeballs on that set of data
01:02:05.780 --> 01:02:08.940
than your data, or your friend's data.
01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:12.550
But yeah, of course, when you know
the camera is there, it definitely
01:02:12.550 --> 01:02:16.923
affects behaviour.
01:02:16.923 --> 01:02:26.000
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