0:00:00.350,0:00:11.410
Angel: Our speaker today is Evan Roth.

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He's a multi-disciplinary American artist[br]based in Paris.

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He's working with sculptures, prints,[br]videos and websites

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and in the upcoming hour during his talk[br]he'll take you on a journey about art,

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politics, culture,[br]the misuse of communication technologies

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and how all of these are connected[br]to each other.

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Please give a warm round of applause[br]for Evan Roth, our speaker today!

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Thank you very much!

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<i>Applause</i>

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Evan: Hi everybody, thanks so much for coming,[br]I'm really humbled and honoured to be here.

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It's my first time on this side of the internet[br]with you all, so thanks so much for joining.

0:00:53.949,0:00:59.030
Ya, my name is Evan. I'm an American,[br]I'm living in Paris at the moment.

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I'm an artist, and so I'm gonna talk a bit[br]about the art I've been making the last few

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years,

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how it's changed as the internet's changed,[br]and hopefully weave some threads through here.

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The work I'm making primarily shows up[br]in these three areas of the gallery,

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public space and the internet.

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The mediums I'm using are often quite different,[br]but historically the work I've been making

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has been connected by this relationship[br]between misuse and empowerment,

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and how misuse can kind of be this lens[br]that we, as we all know, look at technologies

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but lots of things in life around us[br]is sort of see things that have other

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sort of unintended uses, right.[br]Female voice in bg: Introducing the iRobot

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robot..

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Evan: To make things, like consumer domestic[br]products much more interesting, right,

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so this is the doomba,[br]this old old internet meme, right,

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<i>laughter</i>[br]but, so good, right,

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such a wonderful gift that the internet gave[br]us

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with the doomba,

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like I can't wait until.. I really feel like[br]this

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should be in the permanent collection

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of the Museum of Modern Arts,[br]this is one of my favourite sculptures

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I've seen in the last few years.

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But for me, I tried to have like doomba vision[br]when I'm doing activism

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or when I'm doing art[br]and thinking about like

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what else can I ducttape knifes onto[br]to make it more interesting than it was

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the way the manufacturer sort of[br]er, advertised it to me, right?

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Ahm, and so that's kind of a main inspiration[br]for a lot of the art work that I look at,

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that I'm a fan of[br]and that I'm trying to make in my own practice.

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And so two maybe more specific themes[br]I'm gonna try to show through different projects

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are 1) this idea of technological empowerment,[br]which is part of the reason I became an artist,

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and the other this idea of visualisation[br]through misuse.

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And my kind of .. my history with technological[br]empowerment went back to the ..

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when I was an architect.[br]I was at university and I was..

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I had one class about computers,[br]that my dad sort of forced me to take,

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and I didn't think[br]it was that interesting.

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This was back when I was literally still doing,[br]like, graphite with a straight edge on vellum,

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right?

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This was like the first class where they're[br]gonna

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do things like 3D modelling on Autocad,

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and there was one week about the internet.[br]And I had like this really vivid memory

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where the professor brought up[br]this fetch window on an old Mac,

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and like edited it in a little text document[br]and dragged it in and the dog

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ran it up to the internet and then[br]he'd refresh on the browser

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and it updated.[br]And of course this is like small news now,

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but for me this was huge.[br]I couldn't believe it,

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like I really just couldn't believe[br]that for free I could say anything to anybody

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and nobody could really censor it.[br]It just seemed like it was too good to be

0:03:29.360,0:03:30.070
true.

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And that was kind of the death[br]knell on my architectural career.

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Like I would go on to graduate[br]and work for a couple of years,

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but very quickly I was falling in love[br]with the internet in the early kind-of-like

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flash days,

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remember, that time was really fun.

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And so I was coming home from[br]my architecture job and sort of trying to

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learn code

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and trying .. kind of had my first introduction[br]to open source,

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like reading Joshua Davis' praystation FLA[br]files,

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if anybody remembers that day.

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But that was kind of my introduction to technology,[br]and it was really empowering,

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like, it was a feeling, that I still remember[br]and try to, like, hone in on

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when I'm getting more depressed these days.

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And so, how this shows up in some of my work,[br]I'm gonna start around, like, 2005

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with some projects that I've been doing[br]up to projects that I've been doing right

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now.

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Back in 2005/2006 I co-founded an organisation[br]called Graffiti Reseach Lab

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with a friend named James Powderly,[br]while we were in residency at IBM in New York.

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And the basic idea we had with[br]Graffiti Research Lab was that

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technologies were getting a lot cheaper[br]to the point where they're almost getting

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disposable,

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like LEDs, digital projectors were getting[br]really cheap, lasers were getting really cheap,

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and we were interested in trying to make projects[br]that would start to get graffiti writers and

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activists

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talking to the[br]free software movement more.

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Like have a common dialogue for[br]these two very different groups of toolbuilders.

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And so, with that as, like, a premise,[br]we sort of thought of ourselves

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as the Q branch for graffiti writers, right?

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I'll just show one quick project.[br]This was called 'Laser Tag'.

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This was a in retrospect very simple[br]computer vision project,

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but we would basically go out with[br]a digital projector

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and we'd invite activists and[br]we'd invite graffiti writers,

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and we'd set up on this sort of[br]biggest buildings that we could find in town.

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And we would just have this kind of open system,[br]like, the only rules that we had with the

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project

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was that there couldn't be a censor button.[br]People had to be allowed to say

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whatever they wanted.[br]Most of the times we did it without permission,

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which isn't saying much because[br]at the time there wasn't a lot of people

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projecting in public so there weren't a lot[br]of

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sort of laws in this sort of grey area.

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So even when the police usually came[br]it was more of a conversation than a ticket.

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And so we were making,[br]this is one example of lots of projects

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we were making where it was kind of about[br]amplifying free speech,

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like trying to use technologies[br]that were getting cheaper and cheaper and

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cheaper

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to level that playing field between people[br]who live in cities and people who advertise

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in cities,

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and what kind of visual language[br]and visual communication we have in both those

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places.

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So that was the work Graffiti Research Lab[br]was doing.

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At some point we realized with Graffiti Research[br]Lab

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that the sort of technical hacking we were[br]doing

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was much less interesting than the[br]more social hacking we were doing.

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And we also, we were getting much more[br]press than we deserved,

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and we were trying to figure out[br]why that was happening,

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and one thing we sorta came to was[br]we were sorta fulfilling this narrative

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that the media wants, which is[br]that we are living in the future now, right?

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Which is why everyone is reporting on[br]hoverboards now, like, ???

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we're here, you know?[br]And graffiti writers with lasers

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was one of those apparently, like,[br]monumental future points that we'd hit,

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and so the media was trying to write[br]about our projects,

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and we realized that this was sort of[br]a social hack where we could start to

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empower other people with maybe[br]more marginalized voices

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to get in the newspapers more often.

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And so, our mission changed slightly,[br]and so we kind of morphed the energy that

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we had

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with Graffiti Research Lab into this group[br]called the Free Art and Technology Lab,

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which didn't really have a sort of[br]set code or manifesto,

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but the basic idea was that we were gonna[br]use what even Franco called radical entertainment,

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This idea that you could make sort of engaging[br]media on the internet

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that people are gonna want to click on,[br]not because they agree with the politics,

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because they wanna see people[br]acting a fool in the streets, right?

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So I'll show, I'll show one project here.

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This was from a suite of projects[br]we did in Berlin, gosh, a few years ago now,

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called 'Fuck Google', where we came together[br]to make Fuck Google projects.

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So this was one where we rented a..[br]actually, Aram Bartholl was over here,

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you can see him seated there in the driver's[br]seat,

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rented this car for very cheap,

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bought a roof rack off of ebay i think,[br]for, like, 15 Euros,

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and then everything above the roof[br]was just cardboard, ducttape and wires.

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There was nothing technical in this project,[br]it was purely a social hack.

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And this was probably my second greatest[br]technological empowering moment.

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Driving the google car is fucking amazing.

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Here is what that looks like.

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<i>music</i>

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<i>laughter</i>

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So once we had the car,[br]we were just brainstorming,

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like, what are the little skits we could[br]play out, that would kind of put google

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in a compromised position.[br]And so, yeah, it was breaking down.

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This is the drinking and driving.[br]<i>Laughter</i>

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<i>applause</i>

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And if you wanna know how strong google's[br]brand is, this is a staged carjacking,

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where someone off the street[br]risks their life to save a corporate automobile

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engaged in spying practices.[br]<i>Laughter</i>

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And so the idea is that we were then leaking[br]these on the internet and

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this was a long time ago back when[br]we were not sure if google was evil or not,

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right?

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So this discussion was happening.

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It's happening more in Germany than in[br]other places, actually.

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But the idea was to get those conversations[br]happening outside of places like this,

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and outside of places like our gallery[br]and art institutions and more in, like,

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the mainstream press,[br]and, like, people over coffee

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picking up this story

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and starting to talk about these issues.

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That was kind of the idea behind[br]F.A.T. Lab function.

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I was also maintaining a solo practice[br]at the same time as I was doing these

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more collaborative projects.

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This is one called 'Free Speech' I did[br]in Vienna in 2000.. I don't know, like 3 or

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4 years ago now?

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This is again, like, a very simple technology,[br]this is another rented car with vinyl letters

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of a mobile phone number, mobile Viennese[br]phone number,

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and an arrow pointing to a loudspeaker[br]on the roof.

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And that's the only input you get[br]as the viewer.

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And we just drove this around Vienna[br]for three days,

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and people that were sort of curious[br]enough to call that would have their phone

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routed directly to the speaker,[br]and there was noone on the other line,

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so their first realisation that they were[br]sort of in the system when they would just

0:10:07.679,0:10:11.439
hear themselves, like,[br]'Hello?' echoing throughout the streets.

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I'll show a bit of that that looks like.

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<i>noise</i>[br]Female voice: Hallo? Hallo!

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Ich bin der Champion!

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Male voice: <i>Laughter</i>

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<i>noise</i>

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Children: Hallo! Fick dich!

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Male voice: Laura! Ich liebe dich!

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<i>Music</i>

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Group voices: Hallo? Niiiiice!

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So fresh, man. TschĂś.

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Evan: And so, like, that guy was maybe my[br]favourite,

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or maybe that guy who picked up

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and just started laughing,[br]even though when confronted

0:11:14.860,0:11:14.929
with this sort of

0:11:14.929,0:11:17.689
louder voice in public, and they were..[br]maybe thought that were gonna have,

0:11:17.689,0:11:21.350
when they set out, commute to work or[br]go to coffee,

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even though maybe they didn't choose[br]to say these more poignant points, you know?

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Maybe just the laughter to me was this[br]more pure feeling of what technological

0:11:30.980,0:11:33.519
empowerment feels like, right, like[br]just laughing on the streets

0:11:33.519,0:11:35.449
because you kind of have[br]this empowered voice.

0:11:35.449,0:11:37.689
Like, that, that's the feeling I wanna[br]get as an artist and so,

0:11:37.689,0:11:41.369
some of the work I was doing was trying[br]to sort of set up, set up these systems

0:11:41.369,0:11:45.709
that would allow other people[br]to have these sort of experiences.

0:11:45.709,0:11:48.269
So again, like very simple tools for[br]empowerment,

0:11:48.269,0:11:50.689
very low-tech tools for empowerment.

0:11:50.689,0:11:54.769
The other thread that I was doing throughout[br]that period and maybe more so

0:11:54.769,0:11:55.410
in the last 3 years

0:11:55.410,0:11:58.470
has to do with sort of this idea of visualizing[br]the invisible

0:11:58.470,0:12:01.989
which I think is something that artists wrestle[br]with quite a bit.

0:12:01.989,0:12:05.220
And specifically thinking about visualizing[br]the network,

0:12:05.220,0:12:08.009
thinking about visualizing the internet[br]and how the internet is sort of touching us

0:12:08.009,0:12:12.939
and we have this new connection culturally[br]to each other.

0:12:12.939,0:12:16.220
And so I did.. this was maybe 3 or 4 years[br]ago,

0:12:16.220,0:12:19.439
I did this sort of homage to wikipedia.

0:12:19.439,0:12:21.749
I still love surfing wikipedia.

0:12:21.749,0:12:25.679
For me as someone who sort of maybe has[br]a bit of nostalgia for the old days of the

0:12:25.679,0:12:25.929
internet,

0:12:25.929,0:12:29.100
I feel like wikipedia is one of these[br]few holdouts on the internet

0:12:29.100,0:12:32.470
where there is semi-egoless uploads[br]still happening.

0:12:32.470,0:12:33.709
You know?

0:12:33.709,0:12:36.489
It's not necessarily...[br]people are making uploads not because

0:12:36.489,0:12:41.389
they're trying to craft their own avatar online,[br]but they.. because they really want to explain

0:12:41.389,0:12:44.709
how a doroknot (?) functions,[br]or they really want to explain

0:12:44.709,0:12:50.610
how a boxer engine works, right,[br]it's content that if Konstant were here

0:12:50.610,0:12:53.660
he would call media with an alibi, right?

0:12:53.660,0:12:57.559
It's media that has reason for existing[br]beyond just sort of supporting our own

0:12:57.559,0:13:00.110
online visions of who we are[br]and who we aren't.

0:13:00.110,0:13:01.699
And so for this reason I really[br]love wikipedia.

0:13:01.699,0:13:06.329
It feels like this really sort of[br]free and honest place to surf sometimes.

0:13:06.329,0:13:11.139
And so, I made this series of eleven websites,[br]kind of as a monument to wikipedia,

0:13:11.139,0:13:15.209
where I spent a summer just surfing[br]for animated GIFs on wikipedia

0:13:15.209,0:13:17.879
which was a really awesome way[br]to spend the summer.

0:13:17.879,0:13:21.420
And then, when I found ones that[br]I would wanna kind of use as raw materials

0:13:21.420,0:13:24.499
I would just copy and paste it[br]a couple of hundred times

0:13:24.499,0:13:27.300
and rename the files so[br]that when the browser tries to load it in

0:13:27.300,0:13:31.679
it doesn't cache them all immediately.[br]It thinks they're all separate files.

0:13:31.679,0:13:33.300
And so what ends up happening[br]is..

0:13:33.300,0:13:36.470
And of course, it can't load them[br]all at once, right,

0:13:36.470,0:13:39.739
so it just starts loading them in[br]as the packets are sort of delivered

0:13:39.739,0:13:44.869
in this linear fashion, and..[br]so the pieces never quite look the same.

0:13:44.869,0:13:47.129
They're all...[br]in a sense these kind of unique views

0:13:47.129,0:13:50.399
were depending on your process,[br]your speed and what browser you're using

0:13:50.399,0:13:51.970
and how fast your internet connection is.

0:13:51.970,0:13:55.689
They're always gonna load in slightly different[br]as the packets sort of traverse the network

0:13:55.689,0:13:57.709
in this linear fashion.

0:13:57.709,0:14:00.829
And so what you get is.. are these compositions[br]that are very simple

0:14:00.829,0:14:03.749
but they're not, in this case,[br]like a perfect circle, right?

0:14:03.749,0:14:07.559
You kind of see this visualization[br]of the data kind of as it's going

0:14:07.559,0:14:08.399
through the network.

0:14:08.399,0:14:12.980
And if you view these same pieces[br]in the TOR browser,

0:14:12.980,0:14:15.059
which I don't have to explain[br]what it is in this audience,

0:14:15.059,0:14:18.610
which is really fun for the first time,[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:14:18.610,0:14:21.319
you get get a sense of how...[br]so this is the exact same website

0:14:21.319,0:14:24.139
just viewed through TOR.[br]And you can see in the piece

0:14:24.139,0:14:28.600
how the composition is altered, right,[br]because, as the pieces are moving around

0:14:28.600,0:14:31.170
and it's being rerouted to different nodes,[br]they kind of come back together

0:14:31.170,0:14:33.100
in a way that's very different[br]than the way it's happening

0:14:33.100,0:14:36.119
as a straight connection[br]through Firefox, and so

0:14:36.119,0:14:40.769
the resulting composition is less fluid,[br]it's more staggered and you can kind of..

0:14:40.769,0:14:47.429
There is some kind of visual clue[br]of how that piece went through the network.

0:14:47.429,0:14:51.019
Another series I've been doing[br]for several years now is..

0:14:51.019,0:14:54.549
I've been archiving my own browsing folder,[br]my cache directory,

0:14:54.549,0:14:57.949
I've been basically archiving that[br]every couple of weeks.

0:14:57.949,0:15:01.569
And then when I get invited to show a piece[br]from that series I just basically..

0:15:01.569,0:15:05.209
I use a image packing algorithm,[br]so just pack all these images

0:15:05.209,0:15:08.569
into the smallest amount of room possible,[br]and I'll make these prints

0:15:08.569,0:15:11.459
that are just straight print-outs of[br]my internet cache.

0:15:11.459,0:15:14.879
So this is what one month[br]of my internet cache looks like.

0:15:14.879,0:15:18.369
That is what 3 months looks like.

0:15:18.369,0:15:20.059
They're relatively uncensored.

0:15:20.059,0:15:23.480
I go through it to look and make sure,[br]'cause sometimes my wife will use the computer,

0:15:23.480,0:15:26.439
I'll make sure there is nothing of hers[br]she doesn't want on there,

0:15:26.439,0:15:29.379
and I check it for banking details,[br]but besides that it's pretty..

0:15:29.379,0:15:31.759
pretty much uncensored.

0:15:31.759,0:15:35.910
And so, it's meant to be..[br]I kind of think of them as self portraits.

0:15:35.910,0:15:39.449
They're.. I think of them actually more[br]like false self portraits,

0:15:39.449,0:15:43.579
'cause it's.. unless you truly think[br]that you are your browsing data,

0:15:43.579,0:15:46.529
it's not.. it does.. it's..[br]these prints aren't who I feel like I am.

0:15:46.529,0:15:50.309
But in.. I think over the long term[br]the idea is more they are meant

0:15:50.309,0:15:53.470
to be this sort of portrait of the internet[br]at this one moment in time, right?

0:15:53.470,0:15:59.459
And as sort of screen size has changed[br]and screens shift from our laps to our pockets,

0:15:59.459,0:16:02.929
and as browser resolutions[br]and all these standards change,

0:16:02.929,0:16:04.839
and the kind of fabric[br]of the web changes,

0:16:04.839,0:16:08.179
and these prints hopefully,[br]when someone digs out of my basement,

0:16:08.179,0:16:10.569
like, 20 years from now,[br]they'll have these sort of prints

0:16:10.569,0:16:13.029
of what the internet felt like[br]in this one moment in time.

0:16:13.029,0:16:16.089
That's the idea anyway.

0:16:16.089,0:16:20.959
Another related series has to do[br]again with this kind of shift from

0:16:20.959,0:16:21.929
the screen to the pocket.

0:16:21.929,0:16:24.679
Like, I'm really sort of fascinated[br]with this idea of casual computing

0:16:24.679,0:16:26.879
which I feel..[br]I feel like that move when we started

0:16:26.879,0:16:30.739
having computers in our pockets[br]every day was a really fundamental shift.

0:16:30.739,0:16:32.509
And so I had this series called[br]'Multi-touch Paintings',

0:16:32.509,0:16:36.749
that are created just from,[br]basically just take a piece of tracing paper

0:16:36.749,0:16:40.779
and put it over my phone and then[br]perform the sort of interface tasks

0:16:40.779,0:16:41.730
that it asked me to do.

0:16:41.730,0:16:46.209
So this one's called[br]'Slide to unlock'.

0:16:46.209,0:16:48.709
This is a.. this one's called[br]'Zoom in, zoom out'.

0:16:48.709,0:16:50.949
And they're literally just ink on paper.

0:16:50.949,0:16:54.290
So the capacitive touch still works[br]through the paper

0:16:54.290,0:16:58.069
and it's.. I'm kind of like a,[br]maybe a short term it's meant to be,

0:16:58.069,0:17:01.199
maybe purely a visualization[br]in a sense.

0:17:01.199,0:17:04.490
But I think maybe..[br]I hope that there's more, there is also

0:17:04.490,0:17:07.319
like kind of an artistic side of these too,[br]where they're also kind of commenting

0:17:07.319,0:17:09.019
on the way we're consuming media[br]right now.

0:17:09.019,0:17:11.250
So this one's called[br]'Next next next', right?

0:17:11.250,0:17:13.589
So this is..[br]and 'next next next' is the way

0:17:13.589,0:17:17.189
probably this piece will be consumed[br]in 99% of the time, right?

0:17:17.189,0:17:19.319
For the 10 people that see this[br]hanging on a wall,

0:17:19.319,0:17:22.388
the rest are just gonna 'next'[br]through this on instagram, right?

0:17:22.388,0:17:26.880
And so it's meant to sort of,[br]kind of archive, like, the bug in amber

0:17:26.880,0:17:29.250
a little bit, these moments that[br]we're going through right now,

0:17:29.250,0:17:31.179
where we're touching pixels[br]for the first time,

0:17:31.179,0:17:36.059
and these things that kind of feel,[br]sort of high-tech in a sense,

0:17:36.059,0:17:38.240
but quickly are feeling very blunt,[br]like to me this feels like

0:17:38.240,0:17:41.830
a very blunt way to consume media,[br]a very blunt way to have a relationship

0:17:41.830,0:17:43.860
with art.

0:17:43.860,0:17:48.340
So hopefully it's commenting[br]on that a bit too.

0:17:48.340,0:17:49.860
This is a related piece from the series.

0:17:49.860,0:17:52.470
This is.. this piece is called 'Level Cleared'.

0:17:52.470,0:17:56.029
This is me playing Angry Birds[br]from start to finish.

0:17:56.029,0:17:57.360
<i>Laughing</i> And so..[br]<i>Applause</i>

0:17:57.360,0:18:07.470
So the grid starts in the upper left corner[br]with level 1-1.

0:18:07.470,0:18:11.389
Whoever else has a Angry.. or had[br]at one point an Angry Birds addiction,

0:18:11.389,0:18:12.639
you know the level well.

0:18:12.639,0:18:13.980
And then I just played straight through.

0:18:13.980,0:18:17.299
It takes me full-time Angry Birds play,[br]like 8-10 hours a day for 3 days

0:18:17.299,0:18:18.350
to get through.

0:18:18.350,0:18:20.740
And they keep adding levels,[br]so when I have to remake the piece now

0:18:20.740,0:18:23.330
it's even more of a nightmare.

0:18:23.330,0:18:24.440
And it just marches straight through.

0:18:24.440,0:18:29.320
I have one sheet per level..[br]per attempted level,

0:18:29.320,0:18:31.370
and so again, this piece, like,[br]I've been thinking a lot about

0:18:31.370,0:18:35.370
how the art.. how art and the internet[br]relate in terms of the consumption of art

0:18:35.370,0:18:38.630
and how time is affected with[br]our consumption of art.

0:18:38.630,0:18:42.769
And I was, actually, I was thinking about[br]conversations we had earlier

0:18:42.769,0:18:43.090
on the F.A.T. days

0:18:43.090,0:18:46.659
where we were both kind of joking at one point[br]about how we felt like the internet was

0:18:46.659,0:18:50.470
sort of.. we always had to load projects up,[br]like, if we didn't release something in 2

0:18:50.470,0:18:50.630
weeks,

0:18:50.630,0:18:52.010
it was like we were[br]dead on the internet, right?

0:18:52.010,0:18:54.370
And we felt this kind of like push[br]from the internet

0:18:54.370,0:18:56.730
that we had to keep making and[br]keep making and keep making.

0:18:56.730,0:18:58.880
And there was something interesting about[br]participating in that culture,

0:18:58.880,0:19:00.799
but then more and more[br]I've been thinking about

0:19:00.799,0:19:04.230
how can you maybe still contribute[br]and participate in that kind of consumption

0:19:04.230,0:19:05.190
of media,

0:19:05.190,0:19:08.330
but then have the same piece[br]mean something slightly different

0:19:08.330,0:19:10.730
for people that are gonna invest[br]more amounts of time in it, right?

0:19:10.730,0:19:15.100
And how pieces, even if people consume it[br]in a blog post title and have one reaction,

0:19:15.100,0:19:17.510
which might be a familiar reaction[br]like laughter,

0:19:17.510,0:19:19.730
which I actually really like[br]from this piece.

0:19:19.730,0:19:23.510
I'm trying to embed in these[br]other kind of readings of the work,

0:19:23.510,0:19:26.159
where you come in and you sit[br]on this bench, right,

0:19:26.159,0:19:30.149
and this is maybe my interpretation[br]of the piece, right,

0:19:30.149,0:19:33.620
and you sit in front of these, like[br]1500 sheets of paper

0:19:33.620,0:19:36.380
and after the kind of wave of laughter[br]leaves you and you realize

0:19:36.380,0:19:39.419
like, all the things I could have done[br]at that time, right?

0:19:39.419,0:19:41.940
Like, I coulda learned French,[br]I coulda lost ten pounds,

0:19:41.940,0:19:46.080
I coulda learned how to cook more,[br]I could've read a whole bunch of books,

0:19:46.080,0:19:48.799
and instead I was like just flicking,[br]like, birds at pigs

0:19:48.799,0:19:51.279
over and over and over and over again.

0:19:51.279,0:19:53.630
And so it's.. I like both readings.

0:19:53.630,0:19:57.659
Like, I like the reading that..[br]it can be consumed in Instagram quickly.

0:19:57.659,0:20:01.100
I like the reading..[br]I.. if people are able to sit with it

0:20:01.100,0:20:05.240
and maybe contemplate these larger issues[br]I like it as well, but I think

0:20:05.240,0:20:08.750
in art-making right now there is this..[br]I'm trying to make work that isn't

0:20:08.750,0:20:12.059
just addressing the internet's drive[br]to have things faster and quicker

0:20:12.059,0:20:13.720
and in blogpost titles, right?

0:20:13.720,0:20:19.039
'Cause I felt it sort of affected[br]the art I was making.

0:20:19.039,0:20:21.860
And also the internet has like[br]fundamentally changed, right,

0:20:21.860,0:20:26.809
like I think.. I think the times[br]that we were at IBM and

0:20:26.809,0:20:29.299
we were doing F.A.T. Lab[br]and the times that we were

0:20:29.299,0:20:31.919
sort of wrestling with that work -[br]things really changed, like,

0:20:31.919,0:20:32.559
we all felt it.

0:20:32.559,0:20:34.990
And in this crowd I don't[br]really have to talk about it, right?

0:20:34.990,0:20:40.259
But for a while, the internet to me[br]felt like this, and shame on me, you know?

0:20:40.259,0:20:43.090
But as I've been making work and[br]the work's been changing,

0:20:43.090,0:20:46.730
and my relationship to the internet[br]has been changing,

0:20:46.730,0:20:49.299
and so I'm gonna into some things[br]that I know you all know,

0:20:49.299,0:20:51.649
but this is kind of like my personal take[br]on it, right?

0:20:51.649,0:20:55.029
My.. this is like how I came to think[br]about the situation that we're in now.

0:20:55.029,0:20:57.450
I used to think the internet[br]was the Big Bang, right?

0:20:57.450,0:20:58.539
That was how I was introduced to it.

0:20:58.539,0:21:01.049
Like, I thought, holy shit, this is[br]gonna happen

0:21:01.049,0:21:03.120
and it's just gonna keep multiplying,[br]getting bigger and bigger

0:21:03.120,0:21:05.669
and there'll be a server for every interest,[br]and everybody'll be a publisher,

0:21:05.669,0:21:07.730
everyone's gonna be empowered.

0:21:07.730,0:21:11.480
And I thought it was this[br]Big Bang model of what was gonna happen.

0:21:11.480,0:21:14.419
And I think more and more that, like,[br]it's actually the Big Crunch model,

0:21:14.419,0:21:16.700
which is when the universe expands[br]to a maximization point

0:21:16.700,0:21:19.049
and then at some point starts[br]contracting down, right?

0:21:19.049,0:21:23.490
And I think, I think that that middle point..[br]I think that middle point was when

0:21:23.490,0:21:24.450
we accepted Gmail.[br]<i>Laughter</i>

0:21:24.450,0:21:30.370
You know, I think once we, like,[br]culturally decided that

0:21:30.370,0:21:33.009
someone could read our emails[br]and advertise us to our inbox,

0:21:33.009,0:21:36.029
I really think people at Google[br]were just like, holy shit, like,

0:21:36.029,0:21:38.509
'They bought it.'[br]Like, from that point on it was just really

0:21:38.509,0:21:39.299
over.

0:21:39.299,0:21:43.380
And so now it's been of course[br]condensing into fewer and fewer servers,

0:21:43.380,0:21:46.159
and.. anyway, we all know this stuff, right.

0:21:46.159,0:21:50.470
And so this kind of like, this condensation[br]of the internet down to one point

0:21:50.470,0:21:52.950
feels like it's happening.

0:21:52.950,0:21:55.460
The kind of targeted marketing[br]that just was annoying at one point

0:21:55.460,0:21:59.090
now feels really more sinister, like,[br]I mean, it was kind of ok

0:21:59.090,0:22:00.769
to read our email and[br]advertise to us,

0:22:00.769,0:22:03.399
but then when you start, like,[br]kind of snitching on us,

0:22:03.399,0:22:06.230
that was just.. that was hard for me.

0:22:06.230,0:22:09.049
Like, we don't even need to talk about this,[br]'cause I know it gets addressed all the time

0:22:09.049,0:22:09.299
here.

0:22:09.299,0:22:13.100
But for me, as someone who is making art[br]that was engaged in the internet,

0:22:13.100,0:22:17.240
and a lot of the inspirations that I was taking[br]for, from the kind of free culture movement

0:22:17.240,0:22:20.740
and free software movement,[br]engaged with the internet, and like,

0:22:20.740,0:22:24.039
the convolution of these 3 things, of like,[br]monetization of the web,

0:22:24.039,0:22:27.000
the centralization of the web,[br]and then this kind of spying scandal.

0:22:27.000,0:22:30.850
They really left me in kind of like staggering[br]for ways to get back to making art

0:22:30.850,0:22:34.630
about an internet that didn't feel[br]funny to me any more, right, like,

0:22:34.630,0:22:36.820
the internet was ..[br]this is how I felt like.

0:22:36.820,0:22:40.330
I felt like the lolcats were just[br]this Trojan horse, you know,

0:22:40.330,0:22:44.340
and, and I.. after all this was sort of happening[br]I couldn't even see the cats

0:22:44.340,0:22:45.090
on the internet any more.

0:22:45.090,0:22:48.419
Like, I thought, the internet was[br]the land of the cats and unicorns,

0:22:48.419,0:22:53.159
and now, the fur has kind of been removed[br]and you see the terminator's shiny skull

0:22:53.159,0:22:55.679
and the red beady eye.

0:22:55.679,0:22:58.710
And so if.. and just like from a personal[br]standpoint it got hard

0:22:58.710,0:23:03.159
to get interested in making art[br]in that medium again.

0:23:03.159,0:23:06.600
And so, that was like all leading up[br]to this talk,

0:23:06.600,0:23:09.950
which maybe a lot of you[br]have seen either at transmediale last year,

0:23:09.950,0:23:12.960
or here, or, I mean, around the internet.

0:23:12.960,0:23:15.190
I thought it was in the internet[br]for a second there.

0:23:15.190,0:23:19.019
This was Peter's talk at transmediale,[br]where he gets on stage

0:23:19.019,0:23:21.200
and he basically says[br]'We've lost, and it's over.'

0:23:21.200,0:23:26.519
which is something I know that[br]we've heard here from Frank and Rop

0:23:26.519,0:23:27.549
10 years ago, right.

0:23:27.549,0:23:29.350
I know this isn't a new narrative.

0:23:29.350,0:23:33.169
But for me, Peter's talk came along[br]kind of at the right time,

0:23:33.169,0:23:37.149
where.. like, the Pirate Bay, for me,[br]and the work that Piratbyran had been

0:23:37.149,0:23:37.669
doing,

0:23:37.669,0:23:42.220
has been really one of my main, like,[br]heroes, one of the main reasons

0:23:42.220,0:23:43.379
I started making art.

0:23:43.379,0:23:46.779
Like, the Pirate Bay for me is still,[br]I think, one of the most amazing things made

0:23:46.779,0:23:47.519
during my lifetime.

0:23:47.519,0:23:51.799
And it was what really turned me,[br]kind of, from architecture to thinking about

0:23:51.799,0:23:53.990
how entertainment and activism[br]could overlap,

0:23:53.990,0:23:55.659
and how people could really[br]change things

0:23:55.659,0:23:59.570
and have kind of powerstructure-altering[br]things that we could contribute

0:23:59.570,0:24:00.559
to culture.

0:24:00.559,0:24:03.379
And when you have these kind of[br]personal heroes get on stage

0:24:03.379,0:24:06.019
and tell you that that's over..

0:24:06.019,0:24:08.899
When I happy to hear that[br]I had this kind of moment where I was like,

0:24:08.899,0:24:11.649
why am I feeling happy about[br]hearing that, you know?

0:24:11.649,0:24:13.490
And I realized that that was kind[br]of how I was feeling,

0:24:13.490,0:24:18.159
and have somebody else say that..[br]it felt really.. good's the wrong word,

0:24:18.159,0:24:22.299
but it felt.. strangely empowering[br]to sort of start to admit to myself

0:24:22.299,0:24:25.659
that maybe the kind of ship[br]was sinking, right?

0:24:25.659,0:24:30.879
And so, shortly after that we were also having[br]conversations within the F.A.T. Lab internally,

0:24:30.879,0:24:34.279
and, not by unanimous decision[br]but by majority we decided

0:24:34.279,0:24:36.919
that we were gonna shut the doors[br]at F.A.T. Lab.

0:24:36.919,0:24:39.960
And I won't speak for the group,[br]but my.. my personal thoughts on why

0:24:39.960,0:24:44.110
we.. they shut down, which maybe[br]isn't important in the greater sense,

0:24:44.110,0:24:47.269
but just, kind of again, like as[br]a.. kind of my personal take

0:24:47.269,0:24:50.960
on how I'm working through this stuff[br]was like.. I felt like F.A.T. Lab..

0:24:50.960,0:24:53.259
like the internet had sort of[br]outpaced us, like,

0:24:53.259,0:24:56.830
that idea of radical entertainment[br]had a moment when there was

0:24:56.830,0:25:00.710
a loophole in the media where[br]kind of companies and capitalism

0:25:00.710,0:25:02.460
hadn't really figured out viral[br]marketing yet,

0:25:02.460,0:25:06.129
and we had this.. this like big opening[br]where we could really speak to people

0:25:06.129,0:25:08.769
on a larger platform because[br]there weren't whole divisions

0:25:08.769,0:25:11.649
at Wieden+Kennedy that were just[br]trying to do this for the largest companies.

0:25:11.649,0:25:15.309
Like, it was.. we figured that out first,[br]and so we had this kind of weakness

0:25:15.309,0:25:16.809
that we could exploit.

0:25:16.809,0:25:20.059
But as that changed we kind of failed[br]as a group, I think, to keep up

0:25:20.059,0:25:23.009
with new modes of activism.

0:25:23.009,0:25:25.129
And the other thing that I was sort of[br]feeling was that we were kind of

0:25:25.129,0:25:30.190
providing this David and Goliath[br]narrative to people.

0:25:30.190,0:25:33.759
Both within the group, they were[br]getting closer to sort of Silicon Valley,

0:25:33.759,0:25:37.279
and our audience, which I felt like[br]was getting closer and closer to Silicon Valley,

0:25:37.279,0:25:40.159
that like... people that were getting[br]entrenched more into that way of thinking

0:25:40.159,0:25:44.049
were looking and enjoying our content[br]in a way that sort of felt uncomfortable in

0:25:44.049,0:25:45.279
a way.

0:25:45.279,0:25:49.500
And it felt like the kind of humorous pranks[br]that we were pulling was helping them cope,

0:25:49.500,0:25:54.350
in a way, with the fact that they were[br]supporting that system.

0:25:54.350,0:25:57.090
And... it kind of felt like we were[br]the comedian on the Titanic,

0:25:57.090,0:25:58.730
like telling jokes as it was sinking.

0:25:58.730,0:26:01.279
Or, it felt to me that way.

0:26:01.279,0:26:04.860
And so at some point it felt[br]more powerful to kind of just say

0:26:04.860,0:26:08.169
'Goodbye' and maybe put a message[br]in a bottle and jump off the ship

0:26:08.169,0:26:12.389
rather than sit there and keep[br]bailing out the ship, right?

0:26:12.389,0:26:16.080
And so that's where I was[br]at the beginning of this year.

0:26:16.080,0:26:17.850
And so the work that I'm gonna show[br]from this point on,

0:26:17.850,0:26:21.789
which I think I still have.. yeah, ok,[br]25 minutes or so,

0:26:21.789,0:26:24.500
is kind of the work I've been doing[br]to try to get back to that point

0:26:24.500,0:26:29.259
that I had when I first saw FETCH[br]and FTP and kind of understood,

0:26:29.259,0:26:31.250
in a very rudimentary way,[br]how the internet functions,

0:26:31.250,0:26:33.279
and what that empowering[br]moment felt like,

0:26:33.279,0:26:35.700
and trying to struggle to get back[br]to a point where I could make art

0:26:35.700,0:26:38.039
that was engaged in the internet again.

0:26:38.039,0:26:41.409
And so, one way.. one way I started[br]that search was to sort of start

0:26:41.409,0:26:44.789
from the beginning, and thinking about,[br]like, what is our cultural conception

0:26:44.789,0:26:46.450
of what the internet is,[br]what it looks like.

0:26:46.450,0:26:50.049
And we have generally a kind of[br]very poor visual metaphor

0:26:50.049,0:26:51.159
for what the internet is, right?

0:26:51.159,0:26:53.389
So this is just a google image search[br]for the word 'internet'

0:26:53.389,0:26:55.919
which doesn't, to me,[br]feel very representative

0:26:55.919,0:26:58.919
of what the network is[br]or what it feels like.

0:26:58.919,0:27:02.169
And so I started to get more[br]into thinking about

0:27:02.169,0:27:04.970
what it was, like,[br]it can't just be, you know,

0:27:04.970,0:27:08.230
blue-glowing logos in clouds,[br]it has to be something physical.

0:27:08.230,0:27:12.070
And so I started reading Andrew Blum's[br]book 'Tubes'.

0:27:12.070,0:27:15.820
I started reading Neal Stephenson's[br]'Mother Earth Mother Board',

0:27:15.820,0:27:18.809
which, if there is any sort of internet[br]infrastructure nerds,

0:27:18.809,0:27:20.450
is like an amazing primer,

0:27:20.450,0:27:23.440
kind of the first maybe seminal texts[br]about following internet cables

0:27:23.440,0:27:26.149
around the globe,[br]which is kind of understanding

0:27:26.149,0:27:29.570
what it looks like in these moments[br]of transition, when it sort of

0:27:29.570,0:27:33.499
enters the water and reaches the land.

0:27:33.499,0:27:36.440
And one thing that Andrew Blum[br]talks about in his book is this idea

0:27:36.440,0:27:40.629
of these kind of like.. there's no[br]monuments for this thing that's really

0:27:40.629,0:27:42.999
a major part of our sort of time[br]here on Earth,

0:27:42.999,0:27:44.929
and maybe our part of culture.

0:27:44.929,0:27:47.070
It seems like there's not[br]these places that we can kind of

0:27:47.070,0:27:49.309
go visit and commune with[br]in the same way there are other

0:27:49.309,0:27:50.179
architectural landmarks.

0:27:50.179,0:27:54.490
And so you get these kind of like[br]lonely manhole covers

0:27:54.490,0:27:58.549
on these very desolate beaches[br]in Nova Scotia.

0:27:58.549,0:28:03.230
And so, at the same time that[br]I was sort of doing that research,

0:28:03.230,0:28:07.049
and this is gonna sound like a big[br]left turn, but I'm gonna pull it back,

0:28:07.049,0:28:08.870
at the same time I was doing[br]that research I was also working

0:28:08.870,0:28:12.620
on another project that required[br]the use of an infra-red camera.

0:28:12.620,0:28:15.259
And so I was kind of spending my time[br]doing this research and looking

0:28:15.259,0:28:17.809
around the internet trying to find[br]really cheap infra-red cameras,

0:28:17.809,0:28:20.090
'cause of course I'm an artist[br]and I'm broke,

0:28:20.090,0:28:24.289
and I kept finding myself on these[br]websites of people selling technology

0:28:24.289,0:28:27.669
to ghost hunters, which is a community[br]that I had no interactions with,

0:28:27.669,0:28:32.620
no experience of, but they just had[br]really good cheap infra-red cameras.

0:28:32.620,0:28:34.289
<i>laughter</i>

0:28:34.289,0:28:37.220
And I was like, I was sitting there[br]in these online ghost hunting shops,

0:28:37.220,0:28:38.269
and they were amazing.

0:28:38.269,0:28:41.409
Like, I felt myself having one of those[br]moments with technology,

0:28:41.409,0:28:44.710
where.. that I hadn't felt in a long time,[br]it was just like a kid.

0:28:44.710,0:28:47.499
Like, looking at this technology,[br]I mean, like 'What the fuck is this,

0:28:47.499,0:28:50.749
like, why, I don't understand!'[br]and they..

0:28:50.749,0:28:53.649
But then I started to get interested in it[br]more on

0:28:53.649,0:28:55.570
kind of like a metaphorical or conceptual[br]level,

0:28:55.570,0:28:58.340
'cause what the ghost hunter..[br]ghost hunting community was..

0:28:58.340,0:29:01.899
is kind of interested in doing is, they're..[br]they talk about disembodied human energy

0:29:01.899,0:29:02.159
a lot,

0:29:02.159,0:29:06.399
and so they're making tech to try to[br]visualize disembodied human energy.

0:29:06.399,0:29:09.100
And in a sense this felt like what I was[br]trying to do with a lot of the work

0:29:09.100,0:29:12.639
that I was doing, which was trying[br]to take all this kind of invisible momentum

0:29:12.639,0:29:15.340
that's getting stored in servers and[br]going through the fibre-optic cables

0:29:15.340,0:29:19.200
and thinking about ways to kind of visualize[br]that work to come to some understanding

0:29:19.200,0:29:19.799
of it.

0:29:19.799,0:29:23.299
And the ghost hunting community had this[br]amazing tech to do that with.

0:29:23.299,0:29:26.669
And so then I started to go really deep[br]down this ghost hunting rabbit hole,

0:29:26.669,0:29:30.480
which was another fun way to spend[br]three months on the internet. <i>laughing</i>

0:29:30.480,0:29:34.549
I'll show just one clip.. 'cause I'd[br]never seen any of this,

0:29:34.549,0:29:36.370
so people that are familiar with[br]these communities, this is

0:29:36.370,0:29:39.179
maybe old hat, but to me this[br]was like just fascinating.

0:29:39.179,0:29:42.399
So this is.. they also come from where[br]I come from, so this is like,

0:29:42.399,0:29:46.139
the Mid-West Spirit Organisation,[br]like they're all from the midwest

0:29:46.139,0:29:46.720
in the US, right?

0:29:46.720,0:29:50.139
'Cause it's super boring there and[br]so apparently like.. <i>laughing</i>

0:29:50.139,0:29:53.480
you either do drugs or you[br]hunt for ghosts, and.. <i>laughing</i>

0:29:53.480,0:29:56.070
so this is one from the Mid-West[br]Spirit Group, and this is one of

0:29:56.070,0:29:57.529
many many clips on youtube.

0:29:57.529,0:30:01.539
So this is a video shot in full-spectrum[br]camera, which is just a camera

0:30:01.539,0:30:04.419
that has been modified you see[br]a little bit more of the ultra-violet spectrum

0:30:04.419,0:30:07.299
and a little bit more of the infrared[br]spectrum, and the audio you're gonna hear

0:30:07.299,0:30:11.159
is from what they call a spirit box,[br]which is essentially a hacked radio,

0:30:11.159,0:30:11.950
that just keeps scanning,

0:30:11.950,0:30:14.129
and I'll talk more about that in a bit.

0:30:14.129,0:30:21.860
Guy: This is a device that you guys[br]can come forward any spirits and speak with

0:30:21.860,0:30:22.350
me. (??)

0:30:22.350,0:30:49.070
Ah, so, if you have a message, please[br]come forward and speak to me into this device.

0:30:49.070,0:30:49.570
<i>noise</i>[br]Female voice: Hi.[br]Guy: Hi, tell me your name.[br]<i>noise</i>[br]<i>noise</i><i>boop</i>[br]<i>noiseboopnoise</i>

0:30:49.570,0:30:52.009
Evan: Ok, I'll let you do your own[br]youtube searching for that.

0:30:52.009,0:30:55.309
But even that idea, like, if you have[br]a message for me, come speak into this device,

0:30:55.309,0:30:57.220
like, I wanna use that for like the title[br]of

0:30:57.220,0:30:58.869
my next solo show, to me it's like sooo...

0:30:58.869,0:31:01.509
there is like something happening there[br]that seems like a statement that

0:31:01.509,0:31:03.440
is greater than the ghost hunting[br]community.

0:31:03.440,0:31:07.119
And also their relationship with technology[br]kind of feels very.. I mean it's strange to

0:31:07.119,0:31:07.419
say this

0:31:07.419,0:31:13.480
'cause for me as a sort of non-believer[br]in ghosts I find the technology maybe

0:31:13.480,0:31:17.659
inherently flawed, but I.. the approach[br]seems so honest to me in a way.

0:31:17.659,0:31:22.169
Like they're really setting out to make tools[br]in a very honest way, very little commercial

0:31:22.169,0:31:22.259
interest,

0:31:22.259,0:31:25.590
to try to satisfy this niche community.

0:31:25.590,0:31:27.580
So anyway, this is like a... it was really[br]getting

0:31:27.580,0:31:29.509
back to sort of, like, DIY culture

0:31:29.509,0:31:33.570
of people making technology[br]for their own needs.

0:31:33.570,0:31:36.059
And it's a relatively self-aware community[br]too,

0:31:36.059,0:31:37.309
like they talk about this idea

0:31:37.309,0:31:40.129
of matrixing a lot, which is the same as[br]apophenia, right.

0:31:40.129,0:31:45.340
It's this idea that our brains are kind of[br]hardwired to find patterns in randomness.

0:31:45.340,0:31:48.919
Like, they're aware of this.[br]And so scepticism is like a big badge,

0:31:48.919,0:31:53.049
that people, if you wanna rise the ranks[br]in the paranormal community,

0:31:53.049,0:31:57.529
you have to kind of debunk more[br]ghosts than you find, right?

0:31:57.529,0:31:59.149
And this to me is something that's[br]really interesting too,

0:31:59.149,0:32:02.320
'cause I think that they might actually[br]be more critical of the investigations

0:32:02.320,0:32:04.340
they're doing than we're doing, right?

0:32:04.340,0:32:08.700
And so then when we look and see[br]that we've got 5807 friend requests

0:32:08.700,0:32:12.190
it feels like this might be a matrixing[br]that we're doing with our own technology,

0:32:12.190,0:32:14.139
with social media rather than[br]the ghost hunting.

0:32:14.139,0:32:17.570
Or whether.. like, the kind of like popular[br]idea

0:32:17.570,0:32:19.389
that technology can solve our problems,

0:32:19.389,0:32:22.629
that we can explain all these complicated[br]problems in 13 minutes or less,

0:32:22.629,0:32:26.629
and 120 characters or less, it seems[br]like maybe our relationship technology

0:32:26.629,0:32:31.639
maybe isn't any more flawed than[br]their relationship with technology.

0:32:31.639,0:32:37.879
And so I decided to sort of set out[br]on my own kind of... pilgrimage

0:32:37.879,0:32:38.029
to the internet, right?

0:32:38.029,0:32:40.580
In the same way the ghost hunters..[br]this isn't something that ghost hunters do

0:32:40.580,0:32:42.769
kind of around the kitchen table[br]over coffee, right,

0:32:42.769,0:32:46.899
they go to what they call 'areas of[br]activity', which are actually not graveyards,

0:32:46.899,0:32:47.149
right.

0:32:47.149,0:32:51.460
This would be an area of inactivity.[br]It's more, like, abandoned hospitals,

0:32:51.460,0:32:55.470
or insane asylums, like areas where[br]activity happened.

0:32:55.470,0:32:58.749
And so the.. because I wasn't looking[br]for ghosts, I'm looking for more

0:32:58.749,0:33:04.309
of this, like, reforged relationship[br]with a.. an innocence lost of the internet.

0:33:04.309,0:33:07.289
The area that I decided to go to,[br]which is talked about a lot by

0:33:07.289,0:33:12.119
Stephenson's 'Mother Earth Mother Board'[br]article, is this Porthcurno beach,

0:33:12.119,0:33:15.330
which is.. if you're in the UK and you[br]just keep driving west as far as you can

0:33:15.330,0:33:19.899
until.. literally when the land ends[br]there's a hotel called Land's End,

0:33:19.899,0:33:25.450
and when you're there, you're[br]within, like, 3 km of really cool stuff.

0:33:25.450,0:33:31.669
So you're in.. you're where 15% of the global[br]internet flows through fibre-optic cables.

0:33:31.669,0:33:34.919
It's historically where the pirate ships[br]would hide in the coves.

0:33:34.919,0:33:38.350
2000 BC it was where all the standing-stone[br]circles..

0:33:38.350,0:33:41.119
there's all these standing stones in this[br]area.

0:33:41.119,0:33:44.919
It's where in 1870 the first telegraph came[br]out

0:33:44.919,0:33:46.440
of the ocean, the exact same beach

0:33:46.440,0:33:48.379
that the fibre-optic cables are at now.

0:33:48.379,0:33:53.480
2 km up the beach is where Marconi[br]was building these amazing structures

0:33:53.480,0:33:56.179
to send the first wireless transmissions[br]over the Atlantic,

0:33:56.179,0:34:01.360
all within this super-remote area[br]way out at the west of the UK.

0:34:01.360,0:34:06.249
And so, I made my map and I had[br]my little destinations I wanted to go to,

0:34:06.249,0:34:10.800
I rented a car, I got my gear.[br]I had a mix of, like, ghost-hunting gear

0:34:10.800,0:34:14.310
that I bought and some that I'd made,[br]and some just other devices that I'd thought

0:34:14.310,0:34:17.060
might come in handy.

0:34:17.060,0:34:20.550
And I started by doing something that[br]Neal Stephenson suggested to do

0:34:20.550,0:34:23.500
if you're hunting for the internet,[br]which is to follow the manholes.

0:34:23.500,0:34:26.150
And so I started just following[br]the manholes.

0:34:26.150,0:34:29.730
And.. it really.. it's.. so when you're on[br]these like surfer beaches,

0:34:29.730,0:34:33.420
where nobody is and you see[br]like 30 manholes in the parking lot

0:34:33.420,0:34:35.949
that's meant just to get to the beach[br]to go surfing,

0:34:35.949,0:34:38.719
you're probably getting close.

0:34:38.719,0:34:41.170
On these little farmroads that[br]were just out in the middle of nowhere

0:34:41.170,0:34:45.210
with just sheep kind of grazing,[br]every once in a while there'd be a driveway

0:34:45.210,0:34:49.290
that had these really large sort of[br]access covers,

0:34:49.290,0:34:52.460
and when you looked, they're designed[br]to look like these typical british country

0:34:52.460,0:34:53.000
houses,

0:34:53.000,0:34:56.880
but on closer inspection you can see[br]that there's all these extra security measures

0:34:56.880,0:35:02.690
and blacked-out windows,[br]and so this is a internet landing location.

0:35:02.690,0:35:06.810
Farms that have way more airconditioning[br]than they need for the .. <i>laughing</i> .. sheep.

0:35:06.810,0:35:09.860
That's probably a good sign[br]you're getting close.

0:35:09.860,0:35:15.130
But I wasn't.. I wasn't really interested[br]in.. as a sort of journalistic endeavour,

0:35:15.130,0:35:18.320
like, it was really more.. I wanted to[br]sort of step away from the computer

0:35:18.320,0:35:21.630
for a moment,[br]I wanted to get out into nature

0:35:21.630,0:35:24.600
and I wanted to sort of just see[br]what it felt like to stand on top of that

0:35:24.600,0:35:24.760
cable,

0:35:24.760,0:35:28.470
you know, what would it feel like to stand[br]on top of this cable where 25% of the traffic

0:35:28.470,0:35:30.720
was flowing through.

0:35:30.720,0:35:34.970
And so I started taking this series of[br]landscapes, like just landscape photography.

0:35:34.970,0:35:39.300
Sometimes.. sometimes the cable was[br]within the frame.

0:35:39.300,0:35:42.170
When I took this photo I actually didn't know[br]exactly what I was shooting,

0:35:42.170,0:35:46.040
but in this frame is both the cable and[br]the GCHQ-tapped cable,

0:35:46.040,0:35:50.490
which you can kind of see the dishes[br]up there in the background.

0:35:50.490,0:35:55.570
But it's.. it was less for me about, like,[br]those actual recording the cables, the dishes.

0:35:55.570,0:35:58.880
It was more about something that I read about[br]in Andrew Blum's book,

0:35:58.880,0:36:02.830
was there's this really interesting phenomena[br]that happens when you go hunting for the internet,

0:36:02.830,0:36:05.090
which is like you end up in these super-remote[br]locations,

0:36:05.090,0:36:08.330
like you're trying to go have this research[br]and

0:36:08.330,0:36:09.110
experience with telecommunications,

0:36:09.110,0:36:12.640
but you end up like on these really[br]lonely beaches which is by design

0:36:12.640,0:36:15.930
'cause they don't want cables and nets[br]around them.

0:36:15.930,0:36:19.460
Many times you don't have 3G or cellphone[br]service, and it's kind of just you and like,

0:36:19.460,0:36:19.610
you know,

0:36:19.610,0:36:22.760
this lonely beach.[br]It's.. this.. sort of interesting,

0:36:22.760,0:36:27.620
for me it was really beautiful, like,[br]It really felt.. it felt good.

0:36:27.620,0:36:30.470
So.. this is something I've been doing[br]more and more lately, and I just..

0:36:30.470,0:36:33.850
I go to these places as a way,[br]not to necessarily document

0:36:33.850,0:36:36.750
physical artifacts of the internet[br]but more just putting myself

0:36:36.750,0:36:41.330
in sort of a place where I wanna[br]make art about the internet.

0:36:41.330,0:36:44.090
And the internet manifests itself[br]in different ways in different countries.

0:36:44.090,0:36:48.850
In the UK, it's just these wooden signs,[br]this is.. it's just a yellow wooden sign

0:36:48.850,0:36:52.600
that says 'telephone cable' on it,[br]which is like the most beautiful

0:36:52.600,0:36:57.410
kind of, like, anticlimactic understated[br]monument you could have, right?

0:36:57.410,0:37:02.370
So this is one of the biggest global[br]internet connection points in the world

0:37:02.370,0:37:05.150
and it's just this little tiny sign, you know?

0:37:05.150,0:37:08.670
And to me that was really perfect[br]in a way, like, I was.. I was really..

0:37:08.670,0:37:11.100
it felt good that it was that, and[br]that something else.

0:37:11.100,0:37:15.560
And.. so at the same time I was taking that[br]photography, I was also taking readings

0:37:15.560,0:37:18.440
with this series of ghost-hunting devices.

0:37:18.440,0:37:22.060
This is probably my favourite one,[br]this is called the Ovilus 3.

0:37:22.060,0:37:25.560
This is by a company called 'Digital Dowsing',[br]which is a really great name for

0:37:25.560,0:37:31.550
a ghost-hunting tech company,[br]made by Bill Chappell.

0:37:31.550,0:37:35.300
And so the Ovilus 3 has this[br]kind of like old.. it's called visual draw

0:37:35.300,0:37:36.790
mode.

0:37:36.790,0:37:40.900
And based on kind of EMF and temperature[br]readings, it has this drawing system,

0:37:40.900,0:37:42.560
that it spits out.

0:37:42.560,0:37:46.020
And so at every place that I was taking[br]a photograph I was also taking this reading

0:37:46.020,0:37:48.860
with this ghost-hunting device.

0:37:48.860,0:37:53.150
And so, this manifested in different ways.[br]When I showed in the gallery one way was

0:37:53.150,0:37:58.730
in this series of essentially paired landscape[br]photography where on the top is just a photograph

0:37:58.730,0:38:01.790
from these various places and then on the[br]bottom

0:38:01.790,0:38:03.970
sort of laser-etched into the surface of the[br]print

0:38:03.970,0:38:07.490
are these readouts from the ghost-hunting[br]device.

0:38:07.490,0:38:10.510
Which is kind of.. even.. even if you didn't[br]know

0:38:10.510,0:38:12.170
that came to the piece and didn't know the[br]background

0:38:12.170,0:38:16.110
there's meant to be this kind of play between[br]analogue and digital and this play between

0:38:16.110,0:38:21.880
kind of the spiritual and the real,[br]and when you view these prints,

0:38:21.880,0:38:23.960
you kind of have the same interaction with[br]the print

0:38:23.960,0:38:25.640
that I was having when I was documenting them,

0:38:25.640,0:38:29.150
which was you.. you had this kind of natural[br]position when you're kind of viewing

0:38:29.150,0:38:29.910
the horizon line,

0:38:29.910,0:38:31.330
and then when we kind of check our phones,[br]right,

0:38:31.330,0:38:33.140
and it's kind of like this all day long.

0:38:33.140,0:38:35.030
And so the pieces are meant to have that as[br]well,

0:38:35.030,0:38:37.040
where you.. you kind of look at the horizon[br]line

0:38:37.040,0:38:40.950
on the photo and then you kind of bend down[br]to look at the little digital read-out.

0:38:40.950,0:38:46.350
So this was.. this was one of the series from[br]an exhibition I did in London last year.

0:38:46.350,0:38:52.720
6 months ago - no, 3 months ago[br]I got an invitation to come to New Zealand

0:38:52.720,0:38:58.090
which is a place that was on my kind of like[br]bucket list for internet exploratory research

0:38:58.090,0:38:58.560
purposes,

0:38:58.560,0:39:01.170
because New Zealand has this.. this.. they[br]have

0:39:01.170,0:39:02.970
more than 2 cables, but there is 1 cable

0:39:02.970,0:39:06.280
called the Southern Cross Network,[br]which is essentially its main connection

0:39:06.280,0:39:09.510
to the globe, and it comes in[br]on the West Coast and then

0:39:09.510,0:39:15.490
crosses, like, I don't... like 30 km maybe,[br]and then exits on the right.

0:39:15.490,0:39:18.240
So it comes over from Australia,[br]goes underground for a very short

0:39:18.240,0:39:22.270
amount of time, then bounces off[br]for essentially California.

0:39:22.270,0:39:28.120
And that's its main connection[br]to the world, these 2 very actually unguarded

0:39:28.120,0:39:31.500
connection points.[br]I.. maybe in the Q&amp;A I can talk about more..

0:39:31.500,0:39:31.960
about that.

0:39:31.960,0:39:36.760
But basically, on this trip I got..[br]I mean I got there and they were doing

0:39:36.760,0:39:37.210
construction work

0:39:37.210,0:39:41.510
and the cable was just really there, like,[br]it was dug up and in a puddle

0:39:41.510,0:39:43.790
and just sitting there next to this military[br]compound

0:39:43.790,0:39:45.750
with like this military airstrip

0:39:45.750,0:39:48.040
with like planes taking off.

0:39:48.040,0:39:51.100
And I was there for 2 hours with a ghost-hunting[br]device just kind of touching the cable

0:39:51.100,0:39:54.960
and nobody said anything.[br]It was amazing. <i>laughing</i>

0:39:54.960,0:39:58.770
And.. prior to this trip though I was doing[br]more kind of research to try and understand

0:39:58.770,0:40:03.210
what the internet really really was,[br]and.. there's a lot of people in the room

0:40:03.210,0:40:06.510
who are more, who have more technical[br]knowledge than I do, so if I'm..

0:40:06.510,0:40:10.050
if I'm misquoting things please tell me[br]afterwards so I can update this.

0:40:10.050,0:40:13.670
But my.. my current understanding is that[br]what's going through the fibre-optic

0:40:13.670,0:40:20.550
is essentially infrared.. infrared laser light[br]that's being modulated at different frequencies

0:40:20.550,0:40:25.350
that kind of centre around[br]this 1550 nm mark, right.

0:40:25.350,0:40:34.010
And so give or take a few nm, the internet[br]happens generally in this near-infrared spectrum.

0:40:34.010,0:40:40.470
Which is interesting to me as kind of an artmaker,[br]because most of our digital devices can sense

0:40:40.470,0:40:45.320
in that near-infrared spectrum, in that same[br]1550 nm range.

0:40:45.320,0:40:48.210
So most.. most digital cameras you can open[br]up

0:40:48.210,0:40:50.170
and .. if you go all the way down to the CCD

0:40:50.170,0:40:54.110
you can take off the infrared-blocking chip[br]and you get left with a camera that senses

0:40:54.110,0:40:55.930
that light, and you can put another lens[br]on top

0:40:55.930,0:40:58.140
that blocks everything but the infrared light,

0:40:58.140,0:40:59.730
and then you're left with a device that's[br]kind of

0:40:59.730,0:41:01.390
in my head anyway,

0:41:01.390,0:41:06.720
sensing the world in the same sort of spectrum[br]that's going through the fibre-optic cable.

0:41:06.720,0:41:10.180
So these tutorials are. have.. this presentation[br]I'm gonna have a link to at the end,

0:41:10.180,0:41:14.450
so the links are here but this is from a website[br]called Life Pixel which has really amazing

0:41:14.450,0:41:19.370
like screw-by-screw tutorials for how to do[br]this with most consumer and like prosumer

0:41:19.370,0:41:21.870
digital cameras.

0:41:21.870,0:41:24.710
And so then I started shooting these..[br]these are photographs from

0:41:25.230,0:41:32.590
this is from the West Coast of New Zealand,[br]shot with this modified Lumix GF1 camera.

0:41:32.590,0:41:36.400
And so it started like.. I had this feeling[br]where

0:41:36.400,0:41:38.670
the visuals that these cameras were giving,

0:41:38.670,0:41:42.040
like.. in.. there's like a technical connection[br]to the internet, but for me there was also

0:41:42.040,0:41:46.410
sort of a visual connection where[br]the photos had the sort of feeling

0:41:46.410,0:41:49.450
that I was having, they were sort of these[br]dark strange glimpses of the internet,

0:41:49.450,0:41:54.060
that wasn't Nyan cats and unicorns, right,[br]it was this kind of, like, darker stranger

0:41:54.060,0:41:54.510
view

0:41:54.510,0:41:57.910
of what the internet landscape looked like,[br]and the more I was taking photos

0:41:57.910,0:42:02.040
the sort of less and less interested I got[br]in actually shooting a cable

0:42:02.040,0:42:05.780
and the more and more interested I got[br]in just what these landscapes looked like.

0:42:05.780,0:42:10.060
And so in this example you can kind of see[br]the dirt that's kind of slowly growing over

0:42:10.060,0:42:15.700
from where the trench was dug,[br]or in this one.. from this distance

0:42:15.700,0:42:18.230
you can't see anything.[br]There's a small moment where like

0:42:18.230,0:42:21.030
an old coaxial cable kind of[br]comes out of that cliff.

0:42:21.030,0:42:24.810
But for me it's more about really[br]thinking about like an old-school artform,

0:42:24.810,0:42:26.810
of like the landscape, and trying to think[br]about

0:42:26.810,0:42:29.400
how I can make these landscape images

0:42:29.400,0:42:33.400
that are sort of reflective both of the[br]physical landscape and of our kind of like

0:42:33.400,0:42:35.690
network landscape and cultural landscape.

0:42:35.690,0:42:39.480
So these are just some of the kind of images[br]I was taking on this New Zealand trip.

0:42:39.480,0:42:43.240
And yeah, again, sometimes there is like[br]no visual evidence,

0:42:43.240,0:42:48.160
sometimes it's just.. just a tree that happens[br]to be growing on top of the internet.

0:42:48.160,0:42:50.340
And so I'm still.. this is stuff I'm still[br]going

0:42:50.340,0:42:51.840
through at the moment.

0:42:51.840,0:42:54.820
Now I'm kinda drifting into[br]works in progress,

0:42:54.820,0:43:00.450
but where I'm thinking this is going[br]in one way is a series of new websites

0:43:00.450,0:43:05.110
that I'm gonna be making that[br]are really boring.

0:43:05.110,0:43:07.370
I think there's like a really big[br]market in boring in the arts

0:43:07.370,0:43:08.140
that's coming up.

0:43:08.140,0:43:10.500
Like I think we've had enough[br]of this like really quick stuff,

0:43:10.500,0:43:13.780
so now I'm gonna take it back,[br]and so I'm making pieces that are..

0:43:13.780,0:43:16.170
I had these experiences..[br]so these are tripod shots.

0:43:16.170,0:43:19.170
I'm shooting usually like 10-15[br]minute tripod shots at these

0:43:19.170,0:43:24.100
different locations, and...[br]so these are really quiet moments,

0:43:24.100,0:43:28.390
essentially just video streaming[br]into a browser,

0:43:28.390,0:43:31.870
and part of the idea is like giving..[br]forcing people to have the experience

0:43:31.870,0:43:35.240
that I was having, so it's..[br]I would find myself in these amazing locations

0:43:35.240,0:43:38.400
and sometimes there'd even be like[br]whales breaching in the background

0:43:38.400,0:43:41.750
and like 7 minutes into the shot[br]I'd catch myself, like, you know,

0:43:41.750,0:43:45.770
bending down to the phone again,[br]and like, even in this like amazing environment

0:43:45.770,0:43:49.190
like I was having a hard time[br]breaking out of that really like rapid-phased

0:43:49.190,0:43:52.440
sort of click-bait mentality that I'm starting[br]to fall into as well,

0:43:52.440,0:43:55.590
and so I want these websites to be[br]super super boring,

0:43:55.590,0:43:59.520
like, more contemplative, more[br]on the timeline of what viewing nature is

0:43:59.520,0:43:59.570
like

0:43:59.570,0:44:02.760
rather than what viewing the web is like.

0:44:02.760,0:44:05.290
So this is.. this is the triangular sign here[br]is

0:44:05.290,0:44:07.610
what the cable signs look like in New Zealand,

0:44:07.610,0:44:11.230
which is, if there's any copy-me fans, like,[br]when I got out there and found

0:44:11.230,0:44:13.530
that there's this like beautiful triangle,[br]like, standing over the internet,

0:44:13.530,0:44:15.650
was like an amazing moment for me.

0:44:15.650,0:44:20.000
But the.. so these websites are gonna be[br]different websites.. each website will

0:44:20.000,0:44:26.240
just have one video flowing through it,[br]slow, infrared video shots with this sort

0:44:26.240,0:44:27.140
of audio

0:44:27.140,0:44:32.410
in the background. The audio is made[br]from my own ghost-hunting tech,

0:44:32.410,0:44:34.610
which I'll be releasing when I get finished[br]with all the stuff.

0:44:34.610,0:44:36.790
So this is my own version of the[br]spirit box,

0:44:36.790,0:44:39.280
where, instead of just scanning through[br]the radio, I have it hooked up

0:44:39.280,0:44:42.700
to a pulse sensor,[br]so it's skipping through the radio stations

0:44:42.700,0:44:43.760
based on my heart beat.

0:44:43.760,0:44:47.260
So every time my pulse goes[br]it switches radio stations.

0:44:47.260,0:44:52.140
And.. so the audio is like.. yah, it looked..[br]I looked rather strange like just kind of

0:44:52.140,0:44:52.410
sitting there

0:44:52.410,0:44:54.930
trying to commune with the internet, like,[br]hooked put to this heart monitor

0:44:54.930,0:44:57.090
and this infrared camera.

0:44:57.090,0:44:59.580
But the pieces are sort of meant to[br]kind of hopefully give

0:44:59.580,0:45:02.150
some of those feelings I was having[br]when I was there.

0:45:02.150,0:45:07.420
And the other idea is that these videos[br]are all gonna be located in servers

0:45:07.420,0:45:10.660
that are as close as possible to where[br]I shot them, so

0:45:10.660,0:45:13.990
I'm actually thinking of them less as websites[br]as kind of like network-specific videos.

0:45:13.990,0:45:18.980
And so, in the New Zealand example,[br]I have server space in New Zealand now,

0:45:18.980,0:45:22.850
where these videos are hosted,[br]so that when you view the video,

0:45:22.850,0:45:26.940
it loads into the browser and it's[br]streaming.. you know, chances are,

0:45:26.940,0:45:29.730
you have like kind of like a 50-50 chance[br]depending on what country you are in,

0:45:29.730,0:45:34.110
that the video, as it's being converted into[br]the same spectrum that it's shot in,

0:45:34.110,0:45:39.450
is also streaming kind of like just underneath[br]the frame there.

0:45:39.450,0:45:42.160
And so even though you can't kind of[br]witness this visually, the idea is like

0:45:42.160,0:45:45.410
trying to.. kind of like I was doing with[br]the

0:45:45.410,0:45:47.240
wikipedia series.. like trying to come up

0:45:47.240,0:45:50.440
with not just a piece that's kind of[br]a visual aesthetic of the internet,

0:45:50.440,0:45:54.540
but something that's really kind of about[br]an experience of the network.

0:45:54.540,0:45:57.310
And then the last sort of thing[br]I'm playing with is the..

0:45:57.310,0:46:01.610
they're gonna be all hosted at these URLs,[br]that when you copy and paste the URL

0:46:01.610,0:46:07.550
into a mapping application, the URL is[br]actually a GPS coordinate,

0:46:07.550,0:46:11.720
so if you paste the URL into Google Maps,[br]it'll take you to the exact location

0:46:11.720,0:46:12.940
where the camera was housed (?).

0:46:12.940,0:46:16.500
And so, in Google Earth you can[br]kind of see the triangular sign and the tree

0:46:16.500,0:46:22.480
that is the same sign and tree[br]from the image.

0:46:22.480,0:46:24.920
And so, I'm kind of playing with the idea[br]of the URL as being both

0:46:24.920,0:46:32.710
an address on the globe and the network,[br]and trying to tie again together these 2 things.

0:46:32.710,0:46:37.230
And part of this for me is again, like,[br]without being too nostalgic for the internet

0:46:37.230,0:46:37.900
of old,

0:46:37.900,0:46:43.470
allow the influences that I'm drawing from,[br]from the kind of earlier net art scene

0:46:43.470,0:46:49.150
was characterized with this kind of classic[br]net art diagram, where.. the art happens here,

0:46:49.150,0:46:49.360
right,

0:46:49.360,0:46:53.700
like it's not.. there was this big push[br]in the earlier net art wave that wasn't about

0:46:53.700,0:46:58.690
having kind of imagery that was sort of[br]quasi-antithetic(?) of the internet

0:46:58.690,0:47:01.830
coming on tumbler and being printed[br]in 3D printing into objects (?)

0:47:01.830,0:47:03.730
and showing up in a gallery,[br]but it was really thinking

0:47:03.730,0:47:07.470
more fundamentally about[br]the internet as a platform and a vehicle

0:47:07.470,0:47:13.460
for viewing art and art that can only[br]happen within that medium.

0:47:13.460,0:47:16.640
And so I'm kind of trying to take[br]that idea that's an old one,

0:47:16.640,0:47:19.950
and overlay that diagram on top[br]of something that's like one step removed

0:47:19.950,0:47:24.280
in terms of the metaphor, and thinking[br]about art that happens in a physical location

0:47:24.280,0:47:26.360
and in the network at the same time.

0:47:26.360,0:47:30.130
I could do one more project or we[br]could do Q&amp;A,

0:47:30.130,0:47:33.560
how much time do we have now,[br]5 more minutes?

0:47:33.560,0:47:35.930
Maybe I'll wrap it up there.[br]Angel: ... 10-15 minutes...

0:47:35.930,0:47:38.380
Evan: Ok, ok, I'll do one more project.[br]Ok.

0:47:38.380,0:47:42.790
So that was.. that's going up to like[br]yah, 3.. this is now 2 months ago..

0:47:42.790,0:47:46.430
3 months ago.[br]I got invited to do a piece in Paraguay

0:47:46.430,0:47:50.030
which is not one of the main[br]internet hubs, globally.

0:47:50.030,0:47:53.190
But I decided to kind of wrestle with a[br]different piece of the infrastructure of the

0:47:53.190,0:47:53.270
internet,

0:47:53.270,0:47:56.020
which is kind of the surface, right,[br]the place that we have this

0:47:56.020,0:47:58.930
more immediate contact with the network.

0:47:58.930,0:48:02.670
And.. 'cause I noticed when we.. when you[br]film

0:48:02.670,0:48:05.420
devices in infrared it has this interesting[br]scenario

0:48:05.420,0:48:10.310
where the visual spectrum is kind of inverted[br]in a way where.. the LEDs don't really

0:48:10.310,0:48:13.790
emit much infrared light at all,[br]and so the screen, to the viewer,

0:48:13.790,0:48:18.510
you see everything, but to the infrared camera[br]it's almost completely black.

0:48:18.510,0:48:21.040
And similarly the kind of infrared lights[br]that sort of shine from the top

0:48:21.040,0:48:23.540
of all of our iPhones at our faces[br]all the time,

0:48:23.540,0:48:26.400
which we can't see with the naked eye,[br]become more and more apparent

0:48:26.400,0:48:27.550
when you're shooting with the infrared.

0:48:27.550,0:48:32.340
And so, I started.. built this kind of contraption[br]that I set up in my hotel room

0:48:32.340,0:48:35.900
which looked really strange, and then[br]invited people to come up to the hotel room

0:48:35.900,0:48:40.430
and kind of put their device on top of[br]this camera rig, and then

0:48:40.430,0:48:43.550
the invitation was just to waste time,[br]like, again, trying to get back to this idea

0:48:43.550,0:48:46.600
of casual computing, like,[br]what do you do when you're in line

0:48:46.600,0:48:49.820
at the grocery store, waiting at the[br]doctor's office, like, what's your bag,

0:48:49.820,0:48:51.890
is it Angry Birds, is it checking facebook?

0:48:51.890,0:48:56.690
And I just said, 'here, waste 5 or 10 minutes'[br]and I would record them with this

0:48:56.690,0:49:01.610
infrared camera and it's kind of..[br]in a way it's connected

0:49:01.610,0:49:03.990
to the paranormal research,[br]but maybe it's more connected

0:49:03.990,0:49:06.150
to the multi-touch series[br]that has to do with sort of

0:49:06.150,0:49:09.690
backgrounding, the digital backgrounding,[br]the interface design and foreground

0:49:09.690,0:49:11.420
in the human movement.

0:49:11.420,0:49:15.510
And so, what you get left with is..[br]you see the way people are kind of moving

0:49:15.510,0:49:21.890
over these different devices without seeing[br]these designs that the..

0:49:21.890,0:49:23.530
that Apple and Google are designing for us.

0:49:23.530,0:49:24.030
So I'll play just a minute what[br]that looks like.

0:49:24.030,0:49:48.020
<i>electronic noises like birds and bass</i>

0:49:48.020,0:50:13.670
Evan: A little boring, right?

0:50:13.670,0:50:19.920
No, but that piece is meant to be this..[br]have this kind of..

0:50:19.920,0:50:22.240
these things that kind of feel so natural[br]and we get so into it,

0:50:22.240,0:50:24.330
and when you kind of remove[br]what's actually happening,

0:50:24.330,0:50:27.390
it kind of ends up looking and[br]sounding so alien, right?

0:50:27.390,0:50:30.780
The audio is actually just from[br]a contact mic that's placed in the back,

0:50:30.780,0:50:37.400
so it's not.. it's just an analog microphone[br]picking up the kind of soft fingertaps on

0:50:37.400,0:50:37.500
the screen.

0:50:37.500,0:50:39.540
And so the.. it became just this series of[br]people

0:50:39.540,0:50:41.460
that sort of agreed to meet with me

0:50:41.460,0:50:45.680
and give me 5 or 10 minutes of their[br]computing time, shown in the gallery

0:50:45.680,0:50:49.900
of this kind of series of again of like[br]portraits through technology.

0:50:49.900,0:50:53.540
It's called 'Dances for Mobile Phones'.[br]It's meant to be idea

0:50:53.540,0:50:55.020
that we're kind of dancing for them.

0:50:55.020,0:50:59.620
Anyway, so I'll leave it there.[br]So this is me, kind of struggling through,

0:50:59.620,0:51:03.820
trying again to make work and trying[br]to find these sort of optimistic paths

0:51:03.820,0:51:07.450
through a kind of increasingly dark[br]internet landscape

0:51:07.450,0:51:11.100
and get back to this kind of more[br]magical moment I first had

0:51:11.100,0:51:14.750
when we first kind of understood[br]what technological empowerment felt like.

0:51:14.750,0:51:17.050
So thank you so much for spending[br]the hour with me,

0:51:17.050,0:51:19.810
and if there's any Q&amp;A, I think we have[br]a couple of minutes now.

0:51:19.810,0:51:21.950
Thank you.

0:51:21.950,0:51:33.500
<i>applause</i>

0:51:33.500,0:51:37.080
<i>applause</i>

0:51:37.080,0:51:42.780
Angel: Thank you so much for your[br]phenomenal talk, Evan,

0:51:42.780,0:51:46.220
I think you can tell by the applause that[br]the people really really liked it.

0:51:46.220,0:51:47.770
Evan: Thank you.[br]Angel: It was really awesome.

0:51:47.770,0:51:51.130
Angel: So we have another 5-10 minutes[br]for questions and answers.

0:51:51.130,0:51:54.120
If you ask questions, please move to the[br]microphones.

0:51:54.120,0:51:58.780
We have 4 microphones here in the hall.[br]Do we have any question from the internet?

0:51:58.780,0:52:02.890
Internet? No? Alrighty. So we'll start[br]with this question from over there.

0:52:02.890,0:52:09.390
Question: I really liked your term 'disembodied[br]human energy'. I'm gonna start using that

0:52:09.390,0:52:09.850
"DHE".

0:52:09.850,0:52:12.580
Evan: It's not my term, but I like it too.

0:52:12.580,0:52:17.070
Q: I've been writing about that as well[br]from the dark side of how the internet

0:52:17.070,0:52:23.070
and digital culture is affecting our[br]behaviours and society, and was

0:52:23.070,0:52:28.010
kind of putting that into terms of[br]disembodying experience.. disembody..

0:52:28.010,0:52:35.240
disembodied information, and I'm really[br]going after that a lot in terms of

0:52:35.240,0:52:42.580
analyzing digital culture, and just[br]wondering what you think we might do

0:52:42.580,0:52:48.690
in order to reembody our culture more[br]and not get so lost in these

0:52:48.690,0:52:53.780
technological things that we can do,[br]but to, like, I just was covering

0:52:53.780,0:53:01.440
the failed Paris climate summit,[br]and I feel like the corporate agenda

0:53:01.440,0:53:05.810
is liking that we are going more[br]and more into a disembodied place,

0:53:05.810,0:53:10.540
because it can capture our energy more.[br]So I'd just like to ask you

0:53:10.540,0:53:15.440
if you have any ideas, what we can do[br]to be more reembodying our experiences.

0:53:15.440,0:53:21.450
Answer: Yah.. no, good question.[br]I mean, I can only talk about what I'm..

0:53:21.450,0:53:27.060
how I'm kind of wrestling with it.[br]In.. one sort of decision I made as an artist,

0:53:27.060,0:53:29.910
kind of, is like I feel like I make better[br]work when I'm optimistic

0:53:29.910,0:53:33.370
rather than pessimistic.[br]Like, I think, anyone who suffered

0:53:33.370,0:53:36.400
through depression, like, you know,[br]or had people around you with depression,

0:53:36.400,0:53:39.640
it's not a good place to be in when you[br]wanna make thin.. produce things, right?

0:53:39.640,0:53:43.050
And so, part of it is like just finding ways[br]to fall in love with it again.

0:53:43.050,0:53:45.950
And so, for me that was part of it,[br]it was just trying to find ways

0:53:45.950,0:53:49.840
to kind of fall in love with things again,[br]to the point where I really want to make them.

0:53:49.840,0:53:54.190
And the other one, for me, too, I mean[br]I know there's whole movements of people

0:53:54.190,0:53:56.470
who are doing these kind of digital retreat[br]things which is something I hadn't

0:53:56.470,0:54:01.710
participated in in a formal setting,[br]but for me just getting away for a moment

0:54:01.710,0:54:04.860
and having these excuses, even for just[br]a few days or a week, to sort of

0:54:04.860,0:54:09.740
exist by myself without connection..[br]I know it's nothing new, I know

0:54:09.740,0:54:12.320
that people are talking about this,[br]but it had a real effect on me.

0:54:12.320,0:54:15.340
I mean, one thing that i noticed was,[br]I was much more present, like,

0:54:15.340,0:54:18.320
especially on the UK trip, where..[br]these are like really cliffy regions,

0:54:18.320,0:54:21.340
you know, so a lot of the hiking trails[br]that I was shooting on were like

0:54:21.340,0:54:24.820
really steep drop-off on the other side[br]of this path, and so I couldn't even do

0:54:24.820,0:54:27.860
what I normally do, even when I'm away[br]from email, but I'm walking around the city

0:54:27.860,0:54:30.830
and I'm still thinking about.. 'Oh, I gotta[br]email this person, I gotta do that..'

0:54:30.830,0:54:34.560
I'm not really present, right.[br]And I noticed that I had to, like,

0:54:34.560,0:54:37.570
stop doing that because I kept[br]slipping and falling and, like,

0:54:37.570,0:54:40.110
I didn't wanna die.[br]And so I had this moment

0:54:40.110,0:54:43.290
being out in nature again, where,[br]not only was I away from the tech,

0:54:43.290,0:54:46.660
but mentally I had to step away from it too,[br]just to be really thinking about

0:54:46.660,0:54:50.900
'Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot'.[br]And being able to do that for a few days,

0:54:50.900,0:54:53.550
like, now, I'm lining up my schedule[br]throughout the year

0:54:53.550,0:54:56.360
where I'm setting up these moments,[br]where I have that time to do it.

0:54:56.360,0:54:58.560
And, I don't know if that's the answer or[br]not,

0:54:58.560,0:55:00.340
but for me it's been one way to deal with[br]it.

0:55:00.340,0:55:03.420
Angel: Thank you very much. Next question[br]from this microphone please.

0:55:03.420,0:55:06.360
Q: Thank you very much.I don't know, is it[br]on?

0:55:06.360,0:55:08.710
Angel: Yeah, it's on. Just speak into it.

0:55:08.710,0:55:11.810
Q: Thank you very much for your talk.[br]I'd actually, for me personally,

0:55:11.810,0:55:18.290
I've been also struggling a lot with the[br]thought about the dark sides of the internet

0:55:18.290,0:55:18.720
recently,

0:55:18.720,0:55:21.590
and your talk actually gave me back a lot[br]of

0:55:21.590,0:55:23.710
positive attitude about it, so

0:55:23.710,0:55:27.870
that you very much for that.[br]But one question that I have:

0:55:27.870,0:55:32.770
What is your 10-second definition of[br]what is art, for you?

0:55:32.770,0:55:35.460
Evan: Oh my god.[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:55:35.460,0:55:36.000
<i>laughing</i>

0:55:36.000,0:55:38.830
Evan: Alright, here's a short one I came up[br]with,

0:55:38.830,0:55:41.560
'cause the long one's hard, right?

0:55:41.560,0:55:46.830
I think design is creative work that is influenced[br]directly by money and art is creative work

0:55:46.830,0:55:51.510
that is influenced indirectly by money.[br]And that's kind of the only difference.

0:55:51.510,0:55:53.050
<i>laughing</i>[br]<i>applause</i>

0:55:53.050,0:55:55.360
Q: Thank you.

0:55:55.360,0:55:59.220
Angel: Thank you. Next question from that[br]microphone over there.

0:55:59.220,0:56:02.770
Q: Hi. So I wasn't familiar with your work..[br]I'm over here.

0:56:02.770,0:56:05.930
I'm not familiar with your work, and[br]I really like it.

0:56:05.930,0:56:09.620
And what I liked most about it is[br]really that sense of excitement and wonder

0:56:09.620,0:56:15.630
that you first had when you discovered..[br]what was it? SCP? No, it was..

0:56:15.630,0:56:18.080
Evan: Yeah, FETCH.[br]Q: Yeah, FETCH, right.

0:56:18.080,0:56:20.640
That's sort of.. that's still there in many[br]ways,

0:56:20.640,0:56:22.620
it's different, but it's still there.

0:56:22.620,0:56:26.800
So, you know, I.. I recently discovered[br]physics, and I've had sort of

0:56:26.800,0:56:30.040
the same thing where I am like,[br]wow, we're able to understand things

0:56:30.040,0:56:33.210
in a way that I didn't think it was[br]possible, because I hated physics

0:56:33.210,0:56:36.230
in school, and realized that[br]this way it was taught

0:56:36.230,0:56:39.620
that was really boring.[br]And so I'm thinking, ok,

0:56:39.620,0:56:43.570
if I were to do something[br]like that, it requires you to

0:56:43.570,0:56:46.280
sort of take that step away[br]from the technicality of it

0:56:46.280,0:56:49.240
to see the technicality of it.[br]And how do you, with the internet,

0:56:49.240,0:56:52.750
how are you able to keep that distance[br]and has that been a problem for you?

0:56:52.750,0:56:57.110
Evan: I mean, maybe it's easier for me[br]because I'm not all that smart technically.

0:56:57.110,0:57:00.910
I mean, it's not like I was ever so close,[br]like most of the code.. I had some

0:57:00.910,0:57:04.440
formal training when I got to[br]graduate school, but I was never..

0:57:04.440,0:57:06.400
I'm not a very happy programmer.

0:57:06.400,0:57:09.010
You know, it was never my kind of[br]native realm anyway,

0:57:09.010,0:57:11.650
like, I came more from the design field.

0:57:11.650,0:57:15.430
So it didn't feel like anything I was having[br]to turn off so much

0:57:15.430,0:57:19.190
'cause maybe I wasn't ever all that[br]close to it, in a sense.

0:57:19.190,0:57:22.570
I don't.. that's maybe a bad answer,[br]but it's probably the truth.

0:57:22.570,0:57:24.440
I've been trying to get closer to physics[br]too.

0:57:24.440,0:57:25.230
Q: Yeah?

0:57:25.230,0:57:28.510
Evan: Like for me, like, I'm super fascinated[br]by the electromagnetic spectrum right now.

0:57:28.510,0:57:31.680
Like the answer's in there, somewhere,[br]I feel like, you know? <i>laughing</i>

0:57:31.680,0:57:35.130
Q: Alright, thanks![br]Angel: Awesome. Next question from here.

0:57:35.130,0:57:41.050
Q: Ok, thanks. I just.. I mean, the idea[br]of understanding what's happening

0:57:41.050,0:57:44.280
in the internet is quite important,[br]and I think we're a bit biased here

0:57:44.280,0:57:50.470
because we all have that visualization[br]of the internet, and

0:57:50.470,0:57:54.200
my question now is:[br]Your visualization is of course very

0:57:54.200,0:57:59.570
very valid and very vivid, but[br]all those people that.. that do those

0:57:59.570,0:58:04.490
movements and they scroll facebook,[br]how can we make this visualization,

0:58:04.490,0:58:08.830
because your.. yours is quite complicated,[br]actually, and not as fast.

0:58:08.830,0:58:13.920
How could we.. how could we manage to[br]give.. give them some sort of visualization,

0:58:13.920,0:58:17.570
because what.. what they see is only[br]the apps, and they don't really

0:58:17.570,0:58:19.380
get to think about it more.

0:58:19.380,0:58:23.960
Evan: Yah. I don't know the answer to that.[br]I mean, it's.. for me, part of the reason

0:58:23.960,0:58:27.880
that the infrastructure side is so interesting,[br]is that I think that there's something

0:58:27.880,0:58:31.780
empowering about seeing what it is[br]and knowing how it works.

0:58:31.780,0:58:34.620
Like, when it seems less mystical and[br]magical, like the cloud, of course,

0:58:34.620,0:58:38.880
is this terrible metaphor that we all hate,[br]and I think once.. even when I'm explaining

0:58:38.880,0:58:43.510
my work to non-technical people,[br]the conversations I get into are actually

0:58:43.510,0:58:46.050
kind of interesting, 'cause they're interested[br]in knowing that too, 'cause people

0:58:46.050,0:58:48.510
don't really talk about it.[br]The media doesn't talk about it.

0:58:48.510,0:58:51.040
The companies that are trying to sell[br]them services don't talk that way

0:58:51.040,0:58:55.190
'cause it doesn't benefit them, right,[br]it's like... Apple, when your phone fills

0:58:55.190,0:58:55.350
up,

0:58:55.350,0:58:58.070
they just want you to click here to get[br]more cloud storage space, and

0:58:58.070,0:59:01.630
they don't want you to know how to[br]plug in a cable and get it off.

0:59:01.630,0:59:05.710
And so I think it's.. the question that[br]you're asking is one that I'm asking myself,

0:59:05.710,0:59:09.580
like, how do you communicate some of these[br]ideas to people that are..

0:59:09.580,0:59:12.870
I mean, I'm interested in both sides,[br]I'm interested in people that are

0:59:12.870,0:59:16.050
technically adapt, having interesting ideas[br]and conversations around this,

0:59:16.050,0:59:19.200
but then, how do you also communicate[br]to people that this is a new conversation

0:59:19.200,0:59:21.760
to?

0:59:21.760,0:59:24.320
I don't know the answer to that,[br]that's what I'm trying to kind of wrestle

0:59:24.320,0:59:24.410
with

0:59:24.410,0:59:25.230
in a sense.

0:59:25.230,0:59:32.160
But I have.. I recently did a show in Florida[br]at a university, and the docents there,

0:59:32.160,0:59:35.010
like the people that introduce people[br]to the work, were all like senior citizens

0:59:35.010,0:59:38.610
that were volunteering time to the museum,[br]and they were one of the most engaged

0:59:38.610,0:59:43.040
group of people I've ever had surrounding[br]my work, 'cause they.. they knew..

0:59:43.040,0:59:46.380
it's not like they never heard of this stuff[br]before, but they had a relationship with

0:59:46.380,0:59:49.850
technology, but they were more willing[br]to ask questions about it,

0:59:49.850,0:59:52.670
like they weren't.. they didn't.. they didn't[br]care if it sounded stupid,

0:59:52.670,0:59:56.220
and they were asking all those really[br]interesting questions, and

0:59:56.220,0:59:58.840
seeing that happen to a community[br]of people who were maybe

0:59:58.840,1:00:03.450
a further step removed from technology[br]than I even am, that..

1:00:03.450,1:00:05.960
it's not that it was successful, but[br]it felt to me that.. that they could

1:00:05.960,1:00:09.930
understand and have a relationship[br]to it as art pieces, meant that there

1:00:09.930,1:00:14.200
was something there that was consumable[br]by people that weren't.. aren't in this room,

1:00:14.200,1:00:15.060
you know?

1:00:15.060,1:00:18.810
Angel: Alright, thank you.[br]As time is almost up, guy in orange,

1:00:18.810,1:00:21.590
you got the honour of the last question.

1:00:21.590,1:00:26.600
Q: With your browser cache thing,[br]I did something similar with my computer.

1:00:26.600,1:00:30.650
I wrote a little script that runs in the[br]background and makes a screenshot

1:00:30.650,1:00:32.710
every.. random seconds,[br]Evan: Ok.

1:00:32.710,1:00:36.690
Q: And I had hoped about.. forgetting[br]about it, but actually the...

1:00:36.690,1:00:44.670
the counterpart happened, that I checked[br]the screenshots for every moment

1:00:44.670,1:00:47.620
I didn't have anything to do.[br]And my behaviour was extremely

1:00:47.620,1:00:51.330
affected by it. Was.. did you have the[br]same feeling about your browser cache?

1:00:51.330,1:00:53.000
Evan: Yeah.[br]Q: Ehm, work?

1:00:53.000,1:00:56.760
Evan: Maybe later we can trade notes,[br]I'd like to see your work.

1:00:56.760,1:01:00.020
Exactly, like one of the main things[br]about that piece was like, it's like

1:01:00.020,1:01:03.020
living with a security camera, right,[br]and you always know it's there,

1:01:03.020,1:01:07.690
like, I've gotten better and better about[br]forgetting, but I still know it's there,

1:01:07.690,1:01:11.050
I still think about it, and I tried to do[br]portraits of other people, like,

1:01:11.050,1:01:15.380
friends, like who else you're gonna ask[br]to give your internet cache browsing data

1:01:15.380,1:01:15.830
to,

1:01:15.830,1:01:18.180
right?[br]And it's..I recognized it was like a really

1:01:18.180,1:01:20.540
invasive question to ask people,[br]you know?

1:01:20.540,1:01:23.490
You're really asking people.. I mean,[br]usually the cache people give me

1:01:23.490,1:01:27.440
when I was making portraits of other people,[br]I would tell them and then they would surf

1:01:27.440,1:01:30.070
and give it to me.[br]Like, to just tell them, give me the cache

1:01:30.070,1:01:30.260
that

1:01:30.260,1:01:33.410
you didn't know I was gonna.. you didn't know[br]I was monitoring, is like a really

1:01:33.410,1:01:36.050
invasive question to ask.[br]But yeah, it's like essentially learning to

1:01:36.050,1:01:39.860
live with a security camera.[br]But that's meant to be kind of built into

1:01:39.860,1:01:43.170
the piece, too, 'cause maybe, getting[br]back to the last question, like,

1:01:43.170,1:01:46.320
one of the reactions I get from[br]when people see that work in the gallery is

1:01:46.320,1:01:51.110
like.. they're like, oh wow, that's a really..[br]maybe giving is the wrong word, but

1:01:51.110,1:01:55.040
that's a lot of.. it's a lot of.. you're sharing[br]a lot, right, is the common reaction

1:01:55.040,1:01:56.400
I get from people.

1:01:56.400,1:02:00.240
And.. but part of the idea is then..[br]we're all kind of sharing this

1:02:00.240,1:02:03.000
in different ways, right,[br]this print, just because I put it in the gallery

1:02:03.000,1:02:05.780
doesn't mean there's any more or less[br]eyeballs on that set of data

1:02:05.780,1:02:08.940
than your data, or your friend's data.

1:02:08.940,1:02:12.550
But yeah, of course, when you know[br]the camera is there, it definitely

1:02:12.550,1:02:16.923
affects behaviour.

1:02:16.923,1:02:26.000
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