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I want to talk about sex for money.

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I'm not like most of the people
you'll have heard speaking

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about prostitution before.

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I'm not a police officer
or a social worker.

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I'm not an academic,
a journalist or a politician.

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And as you'll probably have
picked up from Maryam's blurb,

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I'm not a nun, either.

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(Laughter)

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Most of those people would tell you
that selling sex is degrading;

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that no one would ever choose to do it;

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that it's dangerous;
women get abused and killed.

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In fact, most of those people would say,

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"There should be a law against it!"

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Maybe that sounds reasonable to you.

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It sounded reasonable to me
until the closing months of 2009,

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when I was working two dead-end,
minimum-wage jobs.

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Every month my wages would just
replenish my overdraft.

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I was exhausted and my life
was going nowhere.

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Like many others before me,

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I decided sex for money
was a better option.

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Now don't get me wrong --

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I would have loved
to have won the lottery instead.

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But it wasn't going
to happen anytime soon,

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and my rent needed paying.

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So I signed up for my first
shift in a brothel.

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In the years that have passed,

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I've had a lot of time to think.

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I've reconsidered the ideas
I once had about prostitution.

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I've given a lot of thought to consent

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and the nature of work under capitalism.

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I've thought about gender inequality

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and the sexual and reproductive
labor of women.

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I've experienced exploitation
and violence at work.

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I've thought about what's needed

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to protect other sex workers
from these things.

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Maybe you've thought about them, too.

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In this talk,

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I'll take you through
the four main legal approaches

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applied to sex work throughout the world,

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and explain why they don't work;

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why prohibiting the sex industry
actually exacerbates every harm

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that sex workers are vulnerable to.

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Then I'm going tell you about what we,
as sex workers, actually want.

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The first approach
is full criminalization.

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Half the world,

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including Russia, South Africa
and most of the US,

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regulates sex work by criminalizing
everyone involved.

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So that's seller, buyer and third parties.

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Lawmakers in these countries
apparently hope

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that the fear of getting arrested
will deter people from selling sex.

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But if you're forced to choose
between obeying the law

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and feeding yourself or your family,

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you're going to do the work anyway,

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and take the risk.

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Criminalization is a trap.

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It's hard to get a conventional job
when you have a criminal record.

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Potential employers won't hire you.

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Assuming you still need money,

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you'll stay in the more flexible,
informal economy.

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The law forces you to keep selling sex,

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which is the exact opposite
of its intended effect.

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Being criminalized leaves you exposed
to mistreatment by the state itself.

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In many places you may be coerced
into paying a bribe

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or even into having sex
with a police officer

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to avoid arrest.

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Police and prison guards
in Cambodia, for example,

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have been documented
subjecting sex workers

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to what can only be described as torture:

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threats at gunpoint,

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beatings, electric shocks, rape

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and denial of food.

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Another worrying thing:

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if you're selling sex in places
like Kenya, South Africa or New York,

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a police officer can arrest you
if you're caught carrying condoms,

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because condoms can legally be used
as evidence that you're selling sex.

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Obviously, this increases HIV risk.

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Imagine knowing if you're busted
carrying condoms,

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it'll be used against you.

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It's a pretty strong incentive
to leave them at home, right?

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Sex workers working in these places
are forced to make a tough choice

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between risking arrest
or having risky sex.

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What would you choose?

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Would you pack condoms to go to work?

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How about if you're worried

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the police officer would rape you
when he got you in the van?

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The second approach to regulating
sex work seen in these countries

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is partial criminalization,

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where the buying and selling
of sex are legal,

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but surrounding activities,

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like brothel-keeping or soliciting
on the street, are banned.

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Laws like these --

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we have them in the UK and in France --

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essentially say to us sex workers,

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"Hey, we don't mind you selling sex,

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just make sure it's done
behind closed doors

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and all alone."

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And brothel-keeping, by the way,

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is defined as just two or more
sex workers working together.

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Making that illegal means
that many of us work alone,

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which obviously makes us
vulnerable to violent offenders.

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But we're also vulnerable

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if we choose to break the law
by working together.

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A couple of years ago,

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a friend of mine was nervous
after she was attacked at work,

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so I said that she could see her clients
from my place for a while.

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During that time,

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we had another guy turn nasty.

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I told the guy to leave
or I'd call the police.

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And he looked at the two of us and said,

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"You girls can't call the cops.

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You're working together,
this place is illegal."

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He was right.

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He eventually left
without getting physically violent,

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but the knowledge
that we were breaking the law

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empowered that man to threaten us.

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He felt confident he'd get away with it.

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The prohibition of street prostitution
also causes more harm

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than it prevents.

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Firstly, to avoid getting arrested,

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street workers take risks
to avoid detection,

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and that means working alone

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or in isolated locations like dark forests

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where they're vulnerable to attack.

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If you're caught selling sex outdoors,

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you pay a fine.

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How do you pay that fine
without going back to the streets?

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It was the need for money
that saw you in the streets

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in the first place.

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And so the fines stack up,

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and you're caught in a vicious cycle

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of selling sex to pay the fines
you got for selling sex.

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Let me tell you about Mariana Popa
who worked in Redbridge, East London.

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The street workers on her patch
would normally wait for clients in groups

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for safety in numbers,

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and to warn each other about how
to avoid dangerous guys.

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But during a police crackdown
on sex workers and their clients,

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she was forced to work alone
to avoid being arrested.

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She was stabbed to death
in the early hours of October 29th, 2013.

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She had been working later than usual

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to try to pay off a fine
she had received for soliciting.

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So if criminalizing
sex workers hurts them,

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why not just criminalize
the people who buy sex?

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This is the aim of the third approach

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I want to talk about --

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the Swedish or Nordic
model of sex-work law.

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The idea behind this law

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is that selling sex
is intrinsically harmful

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and so you're, in fact, helping
sex workers by removing the option.

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Despite growing support

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for what's often described
as the "end-demand" approach,

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there's no evidence that it works.

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There's just as much prostitution
in Sweden as there was before.

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Why might that be?

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It's because people selling sex

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often don't have other options for income.

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If you need that money,

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the only effect that a drop
in business is going have

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is to force you to lower your prices

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or offer more risky sexual services.

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If you need to find more clients,

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you might seek the help of a manager.

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So you see, rather than putting a stop

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to what's often descried as pimping,

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a law like this actually gives oxygen

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to potentially abusive third parties.

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To keep safe in my work,

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I try not to take bookings from someone

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who calls me from a withheld number.

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If it's a home or a hotel visit,

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I try to get a full name and details.

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If I worked under the Swedish model,

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a client would be too scared
to give me that information.

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I might have no other choice

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but to accept a booking
from a man who is untraceable

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if he later turns out to be violent.

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If you need their money,

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you need to protect
your clients from the police.

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If you work outdoors,

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that means working alone
or in isolated locations,

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just as if you were criminalized yourself.

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It might mean getting into cars quicker,

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less negotiating time
means snap decisions.

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Is this guy dangerous or just nervous?

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Can you afford to take the risk?

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Can you afford not to?

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Something I'm often hearing is,

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"Prostitution would be fine

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if we made it legal and regulated it."

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We call that approach Legalization,

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and it's used by countries
like the Netherlands, Germany

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and Nevada in the US.

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But it's not a great
model for human rights.

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And in state-controlled prostitution,

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commercial sex can only happen

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in certain legally-designated
areas or venues,

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and sex workers are made to comply
with special restrictions,

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like registration
and forced health checks.

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Regulation sounds great on paper,

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but politicians deliberately make
regulation around the sex industry

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expensive and difficult to comply with.

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It creates a two-tiered system:
legal and illegal work.

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We sometimes call it
"backdoor criminalization."

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Rich, well-connected brothel owners
can comply with the regulations,

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but more marginalized people
find those hoops

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impossible to jump through.

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And even if it's possible in principle,

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getting a license or proper venue
takes time and costs money.

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It's not going to be an option

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for someone who's desperate
and needs money tonight.

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They might be a refugee
or fleeing domestic abuse.

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In this two-tiered system,

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the most vulnerable people
are forced to work illegally,

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so they're still exposed to all
the dangers of criminalization

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I mentioned earlier.

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So.

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It's looking like all attempts to control

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or prevent sex work from happening

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makes things more dangerous
for people selling sex.

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Fear of law enforcement makes them
work alone in isolated locations,

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and allows clients and even cops

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to get abusive in the knowledge
they'll get away with it.

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Fines and criminal records force
people to keep selling sex,

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rather than enabling them to stop.

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Crackdowns on buyers drive sellers
to take dangerous risks,

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and into the arms
of potentially abusive managers.

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These laws also reinforce stigma
and hatred against sex workers.

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When France temporarily brought in
the Swedish model two years ago,

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ordinary citizens took it as a cue

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to start carrying out vigilante attacks

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against people working on the street.

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In Sweden, opinion surveys show

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that significantly more people want
sex workers to be arrested now

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than before the law was brought in.

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If prohibition is this harmful,

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you might ask, why it so popular?

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Firstly, sex work is and always
has been a survival strategy

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for all kinds of unpopular
minority groups:

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people of color,

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migrants,

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people with disabilities,

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LGBTQ people,

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particularly trans women.

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These are the groups most heavily profiled

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and punished through prohibitionist law.

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I don't think this is an accident.

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These laws have political support

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precisely because they target people

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that voters don't want
to see or know about.

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Why else might people support prohibition?

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Well, lots of people have
understandable fears about trafficking.

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Folks think that foreign women
kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery

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can be saved by shutting
a whole industry down.

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So let's talk about trafficking.

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Forced labor does occur
in many industries,

255
00:10:24,763 --> 00:10:28,342
especially those where the workers
are migrants or otherwise vulnerable,

256
00:10:28,366 --> 00:10:30,047
and this needs to be addressed.

257
00:10:30,535 --> 00:10:34,814
But it's best addressed with legislation
targeting those specific abuses,

258
00:10:34,838 --> 00:10:36,354
not an entire industry.

259
00:10:36,791 --> 00:10:39,168
When 23 undocumented Chinese migrants

260
00:10:39,192 --> 00:10:42,109
drowned while picking cockles
in Morecambe Bay in 2004,

261
00:10:42,133 --> 00:10:45,069
there were no calls to outlaw
the entire seafood industry

262
00:10:45,093 --> 00:10:47,154
to save trafficking victims.

263
00:10:47,178 --> 00:10:50,533
The solution is clearly to give
workers more legal protections,

264
00:10:50,557 --> 00:10:52,326
allowing them to resist abuse

265
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:55,390
and report it to authorities
without fear of arrest.

266
00:10:55,414 --> 00:10:57,714
The way the term trafficking
is thrown around

267
00:10:57,738 --> 00:11:01,959
implies that all undocumented
migration into prostitution is forced.

268
00:11:02,423 --> 00:11:05,429
In fact, many migrants
have made a decision,

269
00:11:05,453 --> 00:11:06,707
out of economic need,

270
00:11:06,731 --> 00:11:09,514
to place themselves into the hands
of people smugglers.

271
00:11:09,538 --> 00:11:11,320
Many do this with the full knowledge

272
00:11:11,344 --> 00:11:14,547
that they'll be selling sex
when they reach their destination.

273
00:11:14,571 --> 00:11:16,324
And yes, it can often be the case

274
00:11:16,348 --> 00:11:19,593
that these people smugglers
demand exorbitant fees,

275
00:11:19,617 --> 00:11:22,521
coerce migrants into work
they don't want to do

276
00:11:22,545 --> 00:11:24,432
and abuse them when they're vulnerable.

277
00:11:24,456 --> 00:11:25,959
That's true of prostitution,

278
00:11:25,983 --> 00:11:27,930
but it's also true of agricultural work,

279
00:11:27,954 --> 00:11:30,105
hospitality work and domestic work.

280
00:11:30,653 --> 00:11:34,046
Ultimately, nobody wants
to be forced to do any kind of work,

281
00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:36,571
but that's a risk many migrants
are willing to take,

282
00:11:36,595 --> 00:11:38,465
because of what they're leaving behind.

283
00:11:38,489 --> 00:11:40,449
If people were allowed to migrate legally

284
00:11:40,473 --> 00:11:44,010
they wouldn't have to place their lives
into the hands of people smugglers.

285
00:11:44,034 --> 00:11:45,185
The problems arise

286
00:11:45,209 --> 00:11:47,034
from the criminalization of migration,

287
00:11:47,058 --> 00:11:49,019
just as they do from the criminalization

288
00:11:49,043 --> 00:11:50,194
of sex work itself.

289
00:11:50,218 --> 00:11:51,800
This is a lesson of history.

290
00:11:51,824 --> 00:11:55,470
If you try to prohibit something
that people want or need to do,

291
00:11:55,494 --> 00:11:59,069
whether that's drinking alcohol
or crossing borders

292
00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:00,382
or getting an abortion

293
00:12:00,406 --> 00:12:01,766
or selling sex,

294
00:12:02,371 --> 00:12:04,371
you create more problems than you solve.

295
00:12:04,395 --> 00:12:06,184
Prohibition barely makes a difference

296
00:12:06,208 --> 00:12:08,618
to the people actually doing those things.

297
00:12:08,642 --> 00:12:10,113
But it makes a huge difference

298
00:12:10,137 --> 00:12:13,056
as to whether or not
they're safe when they do them.

299
00:12:13,591 --> 00:12:15,890
Why else might people support prohibition?

300
00:12:16,787 --> 00:12:20,153
As a feminist, I know
that the sex industry is a site

301
00:12:20,177 --> 00:12:23,057
of deeply entrenched social inequality.

302
00:12:23,081 --> 00:12:26,133
It's a fact that most buyers of sex
are men with money,

303
00:12:26,157 --> 00:12:28,448
and most sellers are women without.

304
00:12:28,472 --> 00:12:30,772
You can agree with all that -- I do --

305
00:12:31,391 --> 00:12:34,102
and still think prohibition
is a terrible policy.

306
00:12:34,783 --> 00:12:36,921
In a better, more equal world,

307
00:12:36,945 --> 00:12:40,573
maybe there would be far fewer
people selling sex to survive,

308
00:12:40,597 --> 00:12:44,208
but you can't simply legislate
a better world into existence.

309
00:12:44,232 --> 00:12:46,718
If someone needs to sell sex
because they're poor

310
00:12:46,742 --> 00:12:48,184
or because they're homeless

311
00:12:48,208 --> 00:12:51,350
or because they're undocumented
and they can't find legal work,

312
00:12:51,374 --> 00:12:54,929
taking away that option
doesn't make them any less poor

313
00:12:54,953 --> 00:12:56,576
or house them

314
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,553
or change their immigration status.

315
00:12:58,577 --> 00:13:01,108
People worry that selling
sex is degrading.

316
00:13:01,634 --> 00:13:04,313
Ask yourself: is it more degrading
than going hungry

317
00:13:04,926 --> 00:13:06,853
or seeing your children go hungry?

318
00:13:07,366 --> 00:13:10,370
There's no call to ban rich people
from hiring nannies

319
00:13:10,394 --> 00:13:11,647
or getting manicures,

320
00:13:11,671 --> 00:13:15,297
even though most of the people
doing that labor are poor, migrant women.

321
00:13:15,321 --> 00:13:19,465
It's the fact of poor migrant women
selling sex specifically

322
00:13:19,489 --> 00:13:21,794
that has some feminists uncomfortable.

323
00:13:22,481 --> 00:13:23,634
And I can understand

324
00:13:23,658 --> 00:13:26,383
why the sex industry provokes
strong feelings.

325
00:13:26,407 --> 00:13:29,430
People have all kinds
of complicated feelings

326
00:13:29,454 --> 00:13:30,913
when it comes to sex.

327
00:13:31,546 --> 00:13:34,791
But we can't make policy
on the basis of mere feelings,

328
00:13:34,815 --> 00:13:36,877
especially not over
the heads of the people

329
00:13:36,901 --> 00:13:38,639
actually effected by those policies.

330
00:13:38,663 --> 00:13:41,282
If we get fixated on
the abolition of sex work,

331
00:13:41,306 --> 00:13:43,970
we end up worrying more
about a particular manifestation

332
00:13:43,994 --> 00:13:45,407
of gender and inequality,

333
00:13:45,431 --> 00:13:47,753
rather than about the underlying causes.

334
00:13:48,333 --> 00:13:50,764
People get really hung up on the question,

335
00:13:50,788 --> 00:13:53,256
"Well, would you want
your daughter doing it?"

336
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,790
That's the wrong question.

337
00:13:55,217 --> 00:13:57,885
Instead, imagine she is doing it.

338
00:13:58,542 --> 00:14:00,406
How safe is she at work tonight?

339
00:14:01,155 --> 00:14:02,684
Why isn't she safer?

340
00:14:04,497 --> 00:14:07,418
So we've looked at full criminalization,

341
00:14:07,442 --> 00:14:10,445
partial criminalization,
the Swedish or Nordic Model

342
00:14:10,469 --> 00:14:11,659
and legalization,

343
00:14:11,683 --> 00:14:13,335
and how they all cause harm.

344
00:14:13,359 --> 00:14:16,311
Something I never hear asked is:

345
00:14:16,839 --> 00:14:18,509
"What do sex workers want?"

346
00:14:19,573 --> 00:14:22,241
After all, we're the ones
most affected by these laws.

347
00:14:23,115 --> 00:14:25,995
New Zealand decriminalized
sex work in 2003.

348
00:14:26,532 --> 00:14:28,433
It's crucial to remember

349
00:14:28,457 --> 00:14:31,908
that decriminalization and legalization
are not the same thing.

350
00:14:31,932 --> 00:14:34,817
Decriminalization means
the removal of laws

351
00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,884
that punitively target the sex industry,

352
00:14:36,908 --> 00:14:40,330
instead treating sex work
much like any other kind of work.

353
00:14:40,354 --> 00:14:43,167
In New Zealand, people
can work together for safety,

354
00:14:43,191 --> 00:14:45,944
and employers of sex workers
are accountable to the state.

355
00:14:45,968 --> 00:14:48,651
A sex worker can refuse
to see a client at any time,

356
00:14:48,675 --> 00:14:50,135
for any reason,

357
00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:52,633
and 96 percent of street workers

358
00:14:52,657 --> 00:14:55,798
report that they feel the law
protects their rights.

359
00:14:55,822 --> 00:14:57,916
New Zealand hasn't actually
seen an increase

360
00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:00,051
in the amount of people doing sex work,

361
00:15:00,075 --> 00:15:02,699
but decriminalizing it
has made it a lot safer.

362
00:15:03,274 --> 00:15:04,851
But the lesson from New Zealand

363
00:15:04,875 --> 00:15:07,272
isn't just that its particular
legislation is good,

364
00:15:07,296 --> 00:15:08,447
but that crucially,

365
00:15:08,471 --> 00:15:10,790
it was written in collaboration
with sex workers;

366
00:15:10,814 --> 00:15:13,123
namely, the New Zealand
Prostitutes' Collective.

367
00:15:13,147 --> 00:15:15,476
When it came to making sex work safer,

368
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,689
they were ready to hear it straight
from sex workers themselves.

369
00:15:19,251 --> 00:15:20,401
Here in the UK,

370
00:15:20,425 --> 00:15:23,843
I'm part of sex worker-led groups
like the Sex Worker Open University

371
00:15:23,867 --> 00:15:25,962
and the English Collective of Prostitutes.

372
00:15:25,986 --> 00:15:27,781
And we form part of a global movement

373
00:15:27,805 --> 00:15:31,265
demanding decriminalization
and self-determination.

374
00:15:31,653 --> 00:15:34,393
The universal symbol of our movement
is the red umbrella.

375
00:15:34,417 --> 00:15:37,518
We're supported in our demands
by global bodies like UNAIDS,

376
00:15:37,542 --> 00:15:39,142
the World Health Organization

377
00:15:39,166 --> 00:15:40,552
and Amnesty International.

378
00:15:40,924 --> 00:15:42,762
But we need more allies.

379
00:15:43,181 --> 00:15:45,517
If you care about gender equality

380
00:15:45,541 --> 00:15:48,337
or poverty or migration or public health,

381
00:15:48,361 --> 00:15:50,865
then sex worker rights matter to you.

382
00:15:51,355 --> 00:15:53,378
Make space for us in your movements.

383
00:15:53,402 --> 00:15:56,638
That means not only listening
to sex workers when we speak,

384
00:15:56,662 --> 00:15:58,663
but amplifying our voices.

385
00:15:59,219 --> 00:16:01,340
Resist those who silence us,

386
00:16:01,364 --> 00:16:04,543
those who say that a prostitute
is either too victimized,

387
00:16:04,567 --> 00:16:07,213
too damaged to know
what's best for herself,

388
00:16:07,237 --> 00:16:08,973
or else too privileged

389
00:16:08,997 --> 00:16:11,185
and too removed from real hardship,

390
00:16:11,209 --> 00:16:14,589
not representative of the millions
of voiceless victims.

391
00:16:15,709 --> 00:16:20,512
This distinction between victim
and empowered is imaginary.

392
00:16:20,536 --> 00:16:22,989
It exists purely to discredit sex workers

393
00:16:23,013 --> 00:16:24,956
and make it easy to ignore us.

394
00:16:25,819 --> 00:16:28,011
No doubt many of you work for a living.

395
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,281
Well, sex work is work, too.

396
00:16:30,877 --> 00:16:32,033
Just like you,

397
00:16:32,057 --> 00:16:33,663
some of us like our jobs,

398
00:16:33,687 --> 00:16:35,088
some of us hate them.

399
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:38,413
Ultimately, most of us
have mixed feelings.

400
00:16:39,238 --> 00:16:41,644
But how we feel about our work

401
00:16:42,566 --> 00:16:43,740
isn't the point.

402
00:16:44,484 --> 00:16:47,502
And how others feel
about our work certainly isn't.

403
00:16:48,373 --> 00:16:51,121
What's important is that we have
the right to work safely

404
00:16:51,145 --> 00:16:52,453
and on our own terms.

405
00:16:52,477 --> 00:16:54,352
Sex workers are real people.

406
00:16:54,823 --> 00:16:57,003
We've had complicated experiences

407
00:16:57,655 --> 00:17:00,710
and complicated responses
to those experiences.

408
00:17:01,651 --> 00:17:04,427
But our demands are not complicated.

409
00:17:04,451 --> 00:17:07,248
You can ask expensive
escorts in New York City,

410
00:17:07,272 --> 00:17:10,210
brothel workers in Cambodia,
street workers in South Africa

411
00:17:10,234 --> 00:17:13,353
and every girl on the roster
at my old job in Soho,

412
00:17:13,377 --> 00:17:15,717
and they will all tell you the same thing.

413
00:17:15,741 --> 00:17:17,982
You can speak to millions of sex workers

414
00:17:18,006 --> 00:17:20,463
and countless sex work-led organizations.

415
00:17:20,487 --> 00:17:24,457
We want full decriminalization
and labor rights as workers.

416
00:17:24,985 --> 00:17:27,301
I'm just one sex worker
on the stage today,

417
00:17:27,325 --> 00:17:29,895
but I'm bringing a message
from all over the world.

418
00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:31,087
Thank you.

419
00:17:31,111 --> 00:17:37,484
(Applause)