WEBVTT

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I want to talk about sex for money.

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I'm not like most of the people
you'll have heard speaking

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about prostitution before.

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I'm not a police officer
or a social worker.

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I'm not an academic,
a journalist or a politician.

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And as you'll probably have
picked up from Maryam's blurb,

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I'm not a nun, either.

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(Laughter)

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Most of those people would tell you
that selling sex is degrading;

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that no one would ever choose to do it;

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that it's dangerous;
women get abused and killed.

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In fact, most of those people would say,

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"There should be a law against it!"

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Maybe that sounds reasonable to you.

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It sounded reasonable to me
until the closing months of 2009,

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when I was working two dead-end,
minimum-wage jobs.

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Every month my wages would just
replenish my overdraft.

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I was exhausted and my life
was going nowhere.

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Like many others before me,

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I decided sex for money
was a better option.

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Now don't get me wrong --

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I would have loved
to have won the lottery instead.

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But it wasn't going
to happen anytime soon,

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and my rent needed paying.

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So I signed up for my first
shift in a brothel.

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In the years that have passed,

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I've had a lot of time to think.

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I've reconsidered the ideas
I once had about prostitution.

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I've given a lot of thought to consent

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and the nature of work under capitalism.

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I've thought about gender inequality

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and the sexual and reproductive
labor of women.

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I've experienced exploitation
and violence at work.

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I've thought about what's needed

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to protect other sex workers
from these things.

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Maybe you've thought about them, too.

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In this talk,

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I'll take you through
the four main legal approaches

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applied to sex work throughout the world,

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and explain why they don't work;

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why prohibiting the sex industry
actually exacerbates every harm

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that sex workers are vulnerable to.

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Then I'm going tell you about what we,
as sex workers, actually want.

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The first approach
is full criminalization.

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Half the world,

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including Russia, South Africa
and most of the US,

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regulates sex work by criminalizing
everyone involved.

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So that's seller, buyer and third parties.

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Lawmakers in these countries
apparently hope

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that the fear of getting arrested
will deter people from selling sex.

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But if you're forced to choose
between obeying the law

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and feeding yourself or your family,

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you're going to do the work anyway,

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and take the risk.

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Criminalization is a trap.

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It's hard to get a conventional job
when you have a criminal record.

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Potential employers won't hire you.

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Assuming you still need money,

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you'll stay in the more flexible,
informal economy.

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The law forces you to keep selling sex,

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which is the exact opposite
of its intended effect.

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Being criminalized leaves you exposed
to mistreatment by the state itself.

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In many places you may be coerced
into paying a bribe

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or even into having sex
with a police officer

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to avoid arrest.

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Police and prison guards
in Cambodia, for example,

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have been documented
subjecting sex workers

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to what can only be described as torture:

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threats at gunpoint,

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beatings, electric shocks, rape

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and denial of food.

NOTE Paragraph

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Another worrying thing:

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if you're selling sex in places
like Kenya, South Africa or New York,

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a police officer can arrest you
if you're caught carrying condoms,

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because condoms can legally be used
as evidence that you're selling sex.

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Obviously, this increases HIV risk.

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Imagine knowing if you're busted
carrying condoms,

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it'll be used against you.

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It's a pretty strong incentive
to leave them at home, right?

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Sex workers working in these places
are forced to make a tough choice

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between risking arrest
or having risky sex.

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What would you choose?

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Would you pack condoms to go to work?

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How about if you're worried

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the police officer would rape you
when he got you in the van?

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The second approach to regulating
sex work seen in these countries

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is partial criminalization,

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where the buying and selling
of sex are legal,

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but surrounding activities,

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like brothel-keeping or soliciting
on the street, are banned.

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Laws like these --

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we have them in the UK and in France --

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essentially say to us sex workers,

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"Hey, we don't mind you selling sex,

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just make sure it's done
behind closed doors

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and all alone."

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And brothel-keeping, by the way,

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is defined as just two or more
sex workers working together.

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Making that illegal means
that many of us work alone,

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which obviously makes us
vulnerable to violent offenders.

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But we're also vulnerable

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if we choose to break the law
by working together.

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A couple of years ago,

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a friend of mine was nervous
after she was attacked at work,

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so I said that she could see her clients
from my place for a while.

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During that time,

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we had another guy turn nasty.

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I told the guy to leave
or I'd call the police.

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And he looked at the two of us and said,

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"You girls can't call the cops.

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You're working together,
this place is illegal."

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He was right.

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He eventually left
without getting physically violent,

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but the knowledge
that we were breaking the law

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empowered that man to threaten us.

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He felt confident he'd get away with it.

NOTE Paragraph

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The prohibition of street prostitution
also causes more harm

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than it prevents.

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Firstly, to avoid getting arrested,

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street workers take risks
to avoid detection,

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and that means working alone

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or in isolated locations like dark forests

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where they're vulnerable to attack.

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If you're caught selling sex outdoors,

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you pay a fine.

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How do you pay that fine
without going back to the streets?

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It was the need for money
that saw you in the streets

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in the first place.

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And so the fines stack up,

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and you're caught in a vicious cycle

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of selling sex to pay the fines
you got for selling sex.

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Let me tell you about Mariana Popa
who worked in Redbridge, East London.

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The street workers on her patch
would normally wait for clients in groups

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for safety in numbers

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and to warn each other about how
to avoid dangerous guys.

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But during a police crackdown
on sex workers and their clients,

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she was forced to work alone
to avoid being arrested.

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She was stabbed to death
in the early hours of October 29, 2013.

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She had been working later than usual

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to try to pay off a fine
she had received for soliciting.

NOTE Paragraph

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So if criminalizing
sex workers hurts them,

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why not just criminalize
the people who buy sex?

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This is the aim of the third approach

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I want to talk about --

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the Swedish or Nordic
model of sex-work law.

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The idea behind this law

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is that selling sex
is intrinsically harmful

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and so you're, in fact, helping
sex workers by removing the option.

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Despite growing support

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for what's often described
as the "end demand" approach,

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there's no evidence that it works.

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There's just as much prostitution
in Sweden as there was before.

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Why might that be?

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It's because people selling sex

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often don't have other options for income.

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If you need that money,

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the only effect that a drop
in business is going have

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is to force you to lower your prices

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or offer more risky sexual services.

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If you need to find more clients,

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you might seek the help of a manager.

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So you see, rather than putting a stop

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to what's often descried as pimping,

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a law like this actually gives oxygen

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to potentially abusive third parties.

NOTE Paragraph

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To keep safe in my work,

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I try not to take bookings from someone

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who calls me from a withheld number.

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If it's a home or a hotel visit,

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I try to get a full name and details.

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If I worked under the Swedish model,

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a client would be too scared
to give me that information.

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I might have no other choice

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but to accept a booking
from a man who is untraceable

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if he later turns out to be violent.

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If you need their money,

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you need to protect
your clients from the police.

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If you work outdoors,

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that means working alone
or in isolated locations,

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just as if you were criminalized yourself.

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It might mean getting into cars quicker,

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less negotiating time
means snap decisions.

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Is this guy dangerous or just nervous?

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Can you afford to take the risk?

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Can you afford not to?

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Something I'm often hearing is,

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"Prostitution would be fine

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if we made it legal and regulated it."

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We call that approach legalization,

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and it's used by countries
like the Netherlands, Germany

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and Nevada in the US.

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But it's not a great
model for human rights.

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And in state-controlled prostitution,

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commercial sex can only happen

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in certain legally-designated
areas or venues,

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and sex workers are made to comply
with special restrictions,

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like registration
and forced health checks.

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Regulation sounds great on paper,

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but politicians deliberately make
regulation around the sex industry

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expensive and difficult to comply with.

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It creates a two-tiered system:
legal and illegal work.

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We sometimes call it
"backdoor criminalization."

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Rich, well-connected brothel owners
can comply with the regulations,

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but more marginalized people
find those hoops

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impossible to jump through.

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And even if it's possible in principle,

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getting a license or proper venue
takes time and costs money.

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It's not going to be an option

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for someone who's desperate
and needs money tonight.

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They might be a refugee
or fleeing domestic abuse.

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In this two-tiered system,

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the most vulnerable people
are forced to work illegally,

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so they're still exposed to all
the dangers of criminalization

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I mentioned earlier.

NOTE Paragraph

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So.

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It's looking like all attempts to control

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or prevent sex work from happening

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makes things more dangerous
for people selling sex.

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Fear of law enforcement makes them
work alone in isolated locations,

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and allows clients and even cops

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to get abusive in the knowledge
they'll get away with it.

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Fines and criminal records force
people to keep selling sex,

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rather than enabling them to stop.

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Crackdowns on buyers drive sellers
to take dangerous risks

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and into the arms
of potentially abusive managers.

NOTE Paragraph

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These laws also reinforce stigma
and hatred against sex workers.

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When France temporarily brought in
the Swedish model two years ago,

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ordinary citizens took it as a cue

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to start carrying out vigilante attacks

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against people working on the street.

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In Sweden, opinion surveys show

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that significantly more people want
sex workers to be arrested now

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than before the law was brought in.

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If prohibition is this harmful,

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you might ask, why it so popular?

NOTE Paragraph

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Firstly, sex work is and always
has been a survival strategy

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for all kinds of unpopular
minority groups:

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people of color,

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migrants,

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people with disabilities,

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LGBTQ people,

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particularly trans women.

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These are the groups most heavily profiled

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and punished through prohibitionist law.

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I don't think this is an accident.

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These laws have political support

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precisely because they target people

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that voters don't want
to see or know about.

NOTE Paragraph

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Why else might people support prohibition?

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Well, lots of people have
understandable fears about trafficking.

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Folks think that foreign women
kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery

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can be saved by shutting
a whole industry down.

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So let's talk about trafficking.

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Forced labor does occur
in many industries,

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especially those where the workers
are migrants or otherwise vulnerable,

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and this needs to be addressed.

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But it's best addressed with legislation
targeting those specific abuses,

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not an entire industry.

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When 23 undocumented Chinese migrants

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drowned while picking cockles
in Morecambe Bay in 2004,

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there were no calls to outlaw
the entire seafood industry

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to save trafficking victims.

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The solution is clearly to give
workers more legal protections,

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allowing them to resist abuse

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and report it to authorities
without fear of arrest.

NOTE Paragraph

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The way the term trafficking
is thrown around

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implies that all undocumented
migration into prostitution is forced.

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In fact, many migrants
have made a decision,

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out of economic need,

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to place themselves into the hands
of people smugglers.

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Many do this with the full knowledge

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that they'll be selling sex
when they reach their destination.

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And yes, it can often be the case

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that these people smugglers
demand exorbitant fees,

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coerce migrants into work
they don't want to do

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and abuse them when they're vulnerable.

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That's true of prostitution,

00:11:25.983 --> 00:11:27.930
but it's also true of agricultural work,

00:11:27.954 --> 00:11:30.105
hospitality work and domestic work.

00:11:30.653 --> 00:11:34.046
Ultimately, nobody wants
to be forced to do any kind of work,

00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:36.571
but that's a risk many migrants
are willing to take,

00:11:36.595 --> 00:11:38.465
because of what they're leaving behind.

00:11:38.489 --> 00:11:40.449
If people were allowed to migrate legally

00:11:40.473 --> 00:11:44.010
they wouldn't have to place their lives
into the hands of people smugglers.

00:11:44.034 --> 00:11:45.185
The problems arise

00:11:45.209 --> 00:11:47.034
from the criminalization of migration,

00:11:47.058 --> 00:11:49.019
just as they do from the criminalization

00:11:49.043 --> 00:11:50.194
of sex work itself.

NOTE Paragraph

00:11:50.218 --> 00:11:51.800
This is a lesson of history.

00:11:51.824 --> 00:11:55.470
If you try to prohibit something
that people want or need to do,

00:11:55.494 --> 00:11:59.069
whether that's drinking alcohol
or crossing borders

00:11:59.093 --> 00:12:00.382
or getting an abortion

00:12:00.406 --> 00:12:01.766
or selling sex,

00:12:02.371 --> 00:12:04.371
you create more problems than you solve.

00:12:04.395 --> 00:12:06.184
Prohibition barely makes a difference

00:12:06.208 --> 00:12:08.638
to the amount of people
actually doing those things.

00:12:08.672 --> 00:12:10.143
But it makes a huge difference

00:12:10.177 --> 00:12:13.096
as to whether or not
they're safe when they do them.

NOTE Paragraph

00:12:13.591 --> 00:12:15.890
Why else might people support prohibition?

00:12:16.787 --> 00:12:20.153
As a feminist, I know
that the sex industry is a site

00:12:20.177 --> 00:12:23.057
of deeply entrenched social inequality.

00:12:23.081 --> 00:12:26.133
It's a fact that most buyers of sex
are men with money,

00:12:26.157 --> 00:12:28.448
and most sellers are women without.

00:12:28.472 --> 00:12:30.772
You can agree with all that -- I do --

00:12:31.391 --> 00:12:34.102
and still think prohibition
is a terrible policy.

00:12:34.783 --> 00:12:36.921
In a better, more equal world,

00:12:36.945 --> 00:12:40.573
maybe there would be far fewer
people selling sex to survive,

00:12:40.597 --> 00:12:44.208
but you can't simply legislate
a better world into existence.

00:12:44.232 --> 00:12:46.718
If someone needs to sell sex
because they're poor

00:12:46.742 --> 00:12:48.184
or because they're homeless

00:12:48.208 --> 00:12:51.350
or because they're undocumented
and they can't find legal work,

00:12:51.374 --> 00:12:54.929
taking away that option
doesn't make them any less poor

00:12:54.953 --> 00:12:56.576
or house them

00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:58.553
or change their immigration status.

NOTE Paragraph

00:12:58.577 --> 00:13:01.108
People worry that selling
sex is degrading.

00:13:01.634 --> 00:13:04.313
Ask yourself: is it more degrading
than going hungry

00:13:04.926 --> 00:13:06.853
or seeing your children go hungry?

00:13:07.366 --> 00:13:10.370
There's no call to ban rich people
from hiring nannies

00:13:10.394 --> 00:13:11.647
or getting manicures,

00:13:11.671 --> 00:13:15.297
even though most of the people
doing that labor are poor, migrant women.

00:13:15.321 --> 00:13:19.465
It's the fact of poor migrant women
selling sex specifically

00:13:19.489 --> 00:13:21.794
that has some feminists uncomfortable.

00:13:22.481 --> 00:13:23.634
And I can understand

00:13:23.658 --> 00:13:26.383
why the sex industry provokes
strong feelings.

00:13:26.407 --> 00:13:29.430
People have all kinds
of complicated feelings

00:13:29.454 --> 00:13:30.913
when it comes to sex.

00:13:31.546 --> 00:13:34.791
But we can't make policy
on the basis of mere feelings,

00:13:34.815 --> 00:13:36.877
especially not over
the heads of the people

00:13:36.901 --> 00:13:38.639
actually effected by those policies.

00:13:38.663 --> 00:13:41.282
If we get fixated on
the abolition of sex work,

00:13:41.306 --> 00:13:43.970
we end up worrying more
about a particular manifestation

00:13:43.994 --> 00:13:45.407
of gender inequality,

00:13:45.431 --> 00:13:47.753
rather than about the underlying causes.

NOTE Paragraph

00:13:48.333 --> 00:13:50.764
People get really hung up on the question,

00:13:50.788 --> 00:13:53.256
"Well, would you want
your daughter doing it?"

00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:54.790
That's the wrong question.

00:13:55.217 --> 00:13:57.885
Instead, imagine she is doing it.

00:13:58.542 --> 00:14:00.406
How safe is she at work tonight?

00:14:01.155 --> 00:14:02.684
Why isn't she safer?

NOTE Paragraph

00:14:04.497 --> 00:14:07.418
So we've looked at full criminalization,

00:14:07.442 --> 00:14:10.445
partial criminalization,
the Swedish or Nordic Model

00:14:10.469 --> 00:14:11.659
and legalization,

00:14:11.683 --> 00:14:13.335
and how they all cause harm.

00:14:13.359 --> 00:14:16.311
Something I never hear asked is:

00:14:16.839 --> 00:14:18.509
"What do sex workers want?"

00:14:19.573 --> 00:14:22.241
After all, we're the ones
most affected by these laws.

NOTE Paragraph

00:14:23.115 --> 00:14:25.995
New Zealand decriminalized
sex work in 2003.

00:14:26.532 --> 00:14:28.433
It's crucial to remember

00:14:28.457 --> 00:14:31.908
that decriminalization and legalization
are not the same thing.

00:14:31.932 --> 00:14:34.817
Decriminalization means
the removal of laws

00:14:34.841 --> 00:14:36.884
that punitively target the sex industry,

00:14:36.908 --> 00:14:40.330
instead treating sex work
much like any other kind of work.

00:14:40.354 --> 00:14:43.167
In New Zealand, people
can work together for safety,

00:14:43.191 --> 00:14:45.944
and employers of sex workers
are accountable to the state.

00:14:45.968 --> 00:14:48.651
A sex worker can refuse
to see a client at any time,

00:14:48.675 --> 00:14:50.135
for any reason,

00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.633
and 96 percent of street workers

00:14:52.657 --> 00:14:55.798
report that they feel the law
protects their rights.

00:14:55.822 --> 00:14:57.916
New Zealand hasn't actually
seen an increase

00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:00.051
in the amount of people doing sex work,

00:15:00.075 --> 00:15:02.699
but decriminalizing it
has made it a lot safer.

00:15:03.274 --> 00:15:04.851
But the lesson from New Zealand

00:15:04.875 --> 00:15:07.272
isn't just that its particular
legislation is good,

00:15:07.296 --> 00:15:08.447
but that crucially,

00:15:08.471 --> 00:15:10.790
it was written in collaboration
with sex workers;

00:15:10.814 --> 00:15:13.123
namely, the New Zealand
Prostitutes' Collective.

00:15:13.147 --> 00:15:15.476
When it came to making sex work safer,

00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.689
they were ready to hear it straight
from sex workers themselves.

NOTE Paragraph

00:15:19.251 --> 00:15:20.401
Here in the UK,

00:15:20.425 --> 00:15:23.843
I'm part of sex worker-led groups
like the Sex Worker Open University

00:15:23.867 --> 00:15:25.962
and the English Collective of Prostitutes.

00:15:25.986 --> 00:15:27.781
And we form part of a global movement

00:15:27.805 --> 00:15:31.265
demanding decriminalization
and self-determination.

00:15:31.653 --> 00:15:34.393
The universal symbol of our movement
is the red umbrella.

00:15:34.417 --> 00:15:37.518
We're supported in our demands
by global bodies like UNAIDS,

00:15:37.542 --> 00:15:39.142
the World Health Organization

00:15:39.166 --> 00:15:40.552
and Amnesty International.

00:15:40.924 --> 00:15:42.762
But we need more allies.

00:15:43.181 --> 00:15:45.517
If you care about gender equality

00:15:45.541 --> 00:15:48.337
or poverty or migration or public health,

00:15:48.361 --> 00:15:50.865
then sex worker rights matter to you.

00:15:51.355 --> 00:15:53.378
Make space for us in your movements.

00:15:53.402 --> 00:15:56.638
That means not only listening
to sex workers when we speak

00:15:56.662 --> 00:15:58.663
but amplifying our voices.

00:15:59.219 --> 00:16:01.340
Resist those who silence us,

00:16:01.364 --> 00:16:04.543
those who say that a prostitute
is either too victimized,

00:16:04.567 --> 00:16:07.213
too damaged to know
what's best for herself,

00:16:07.237 --> 00:16:08.973
or else too privileged

00:16:08.997 --> 00:16:11.185
and too removed from real hardship,

00:16:11.209 --> 00:16:14.589
not representative of the millions
of voiceless victims.

00:16:15.709 --> 00:16:20.512
This distinction between victim
and empowered is imaginary.

00:16:20.536 --> 00:16:22.989
It exists purely to discredit sex workers

00:16:23.013 --> 00:16:24.956
and make it easy to ignore us.

NOTE Paragraph

00:16:25.819 --> 00:16:28.011
No doubt many of you work for a living.

00:16:28.560 --> 00:16:30.281
Well, sex work is work, too.

00:16:30.877 --> 00:16:32.033
Just like you,

00:16:32.057 --> 00:16:33.663
some of us like our jobs,

00:16:33.687 --> 00:16:35.088
some of us hate them.

00:16:35.770 --> 00:16:38.413
Ultimately, most of us
have mixed feelings.

00:16:39.238 --> 00:16:41.644
But how we feel about our work

00:16:42.566 --> 00:16:43.740
isn't the point.

00:16:44.484 --> 00:16:47.502
And how others feel
about our work certainly isn't.

00:16:48.373 --> 00:16:51.121
What's important is that we have
the right to work safely

00:16:51.145 --> 00:16:52.453
and on our own terms.

NOTE Paragraph

00:16:52.477 --> 00:16:54.352
Sex workers are real people.

00:16:54.823 --> 00:16:57.003
We've had complicated experiences

00:16:57.655 --> 00:17:00.710
and complicated responses
to those experiences.

00:17:01.651 --> 00:17:04.427
But our demands are not complicated.

00:17:04.451 --> 00:17:07.248
You can ask expensive
escorts in New York City,

00:17:07.272 --> 00:17:10.210
brothel workers in Cambodia,
street workers in South Africa

00:17:10.234 --> 00:17:13.353
and every girl on the roster
at my old job in Soho,

00:17:13.377 --> 00:17:15.717
and they will all tell you the same thing.

00:17:15.741 --> 00:17:17.982
You can speak to millions of sex workers

00:17:18.006 --> 00:17:20.463
and countless sex work-led organizations.

00:17:20.487 --> 00:17:24.457
We want full decriminalization
and labor rights as workers.

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:24.985 --> 00:17:27.301
I'm just one sex worker
on the stage today,

00:17:27.325 --> 00:17:29.895
but I'm bringing a message
from all over the world.

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:29.919 --> 00:17:31.087
Thank you.

NOTE Paragraph

00:17:31.111 --> 00:17:37.484
(Applause)