WEBVTT 00:00:02.320 --> 00:00:03.040 Hi 00:00:04.730 --> 00:00:07.290 thanks to be here and 00:00:07.290 --> 00:00:10.460 I hope some of you will find it interesting but 00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:13.050 most of you already 00:00:13.050 --> 00:00:14.400 know it, probably 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:16.350 So, that's a talk about 00:00:16.350 --> 00:00:19.370 bug triaging and closing. 00:00:19.530 --> 00:00:23.120 I'm Solveig, here are my contact info. 00:00:27.240 --> 00:00:29.540 I use free software since 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:32.250 ten years and 00:00:33.300 --> 00:00:35.580 I focus especially on 00:00:35.580 --> 00:00:37.580 privacy issues 00:00:39.980 --> 00:00:42.080 I contribute to Tails 00:00:42.270 --> 00:00:44.580 which is a Debian derivative 00:00:45.770 --> 00:00:47.370 and 00:00:48.580 --> 00:00:52.540 I went to last DebConf and enjoyed it very much 00:00:52.540 --> 00:00:54.540 and started triaging bugs 00:00:54.540 --> 00:00:56.200 because I'm no 00:00:56.570 --> 00:00:58.200 coder, but 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.890 there are many ways to contribute to Debian 00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:05.110 So, bug triaging 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.590 It's 00:01:07.140 --> 00:01:11.210 a very small task but it helps Debian as a whole 00:01:12.080 --> 00:01:13.910 So, on the 00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:19.030 So, that's where you can see 00:01:20.110 --> 00:01:24.090 the Debian bug tracking system, where, here 00:01:25.110 --> 00:01:29.740 you can enter a bug number and search for it by number 00:01:32.830 --> 00:01:37.440 Lots of maintainers have lots of work and don't 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:40.040 deal with all their bug reports 00:01:41.740 --> 00:01:45.270 Some high popularity 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:47.430 packages 00:01:47.430 --> 00:01:49.740 get a lot of bug reports 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:52.330 like the kernel, or 00:01:52.330 --> 00:01:53.740 firefox (iceweasel) 00:01:54.450 --> 00:01:55.670 and 00:01:56.270 --> 00:01:57.840 sometimes 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.560 maintainers, for any reason, don't have time to deal with all their bug reports 00:02:02.890 --> 00:02:05.870 So, some of them just 00:02:05.870 --> 00:02:09.430 hang out in the bug tracking system without 00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:13.720 being dealt with 00:02:15.150 --> 00:02:16.130 So, 00:02:16.130 --> 00:02:18.130 when you 00:02:18.130 --> 00:02:20.130 triage them, 00:02:20.130 --> 00:02:23.800 you make sure that they are in a state where 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:26.500 something can be done with them 00:02:27.410 --> 00:02:29.130 It's 00:02:30.990 --> 00:02:34.500 The maintainers are sure they have up to date 00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:37.070 bug reports, so that they 00:02:37.990 --> 00:02:39.740 see better what they can do 00:02:39.930 --> 00:02:41.160 and 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:44.500 the users searching for 00:02:44.500 --> 00:02:46.500 bugs similar to theirs 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:48.190 can find them 00:02:48.970 --> 00:02:52.130 and so the maintainers have more time to 00:02:53.480 --> 00:02:56.320 fix actually those that they can fix 00:02:58.500 --> 00:02:59.330 and 00:02:59.620 --> 00:03:02.370 you want to triage bugs 00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:03.890 because it's easy 00:03:03.890 --> 00:03:04.990 you don't need to code 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:08.340 you don't need to do system administration 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:10.990 you just need to know how to read 00:03:10.990 --> 00:03:12.460 and write e-mails 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:14.460 [laughter] 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.040 It's rewarding, because 00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:19.770 maintainers, most of them, 00:03:19.770 --> 00:03:21.770 are really happy when you help them 00:03:24.570 --> 00:03:27.280 Submitters also 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:31.190 are glad to be pinged about their bugs, so 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.190 you got lots of nice feedback 00:03:36.050 --> 00:03:37.420 and it's fun 00:03:37.420 --> 00:03:39.420 you read about 00:03:39.420 --> 00:03:42.940 software you have no idea it did exist 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.610 you don't get, 00:03:45.610 --> 00:03:48.300 even after reading, what they're supposed to do 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:51.030 and you really don't undersand while somebody 00:03:51.230 --> 00:03:52.030 coded them 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:53.110 That's 00:03:54.890 --> 00:03:56.270 crazy, that's 00:03:56.270 --> 00:03:58.270 [laughter] 00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:01.490 and, of course, it saves kittens 00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:09.240 [applause] 00:04:10.130 --> 00:04:12.540 There are many different 00:04:12.540 --> 00:04:14.540 operations you can perform 00:04:14.540 --> 00:04:16.540 on the bug reports 00:04:19.670 --> 00:04:22.390 Those are two of the 00:04:22.390 --> 00:04:24.390 most useful 00:04:24.390 --> 00:04:26.390 documentation pages 00:04:27.320 --> 00:04:29.830 the wiki page about bug triage 00:04:29.830 --> 00:04:32.570 and the server control commands 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:35.030 which are quite 00:04:35.030 --> 00:04:37.540 exotic, I mean, that's a huge page 00:04:37.810 --> 00:04:40.210 with many commands to send to the 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:43.240 server control and 00:04:44.650 --> 00:04:47.190 really lots of things to do, to tell them 00:04:48.070 --> 00:04:52.400 the most useful for the 00:04:52.400 --> 00:04:54.400 Well, those are highly used 00:04:55.950 --> 00:04:56.980 You can 00:04:56.980 --> 00:04:59.340 try to reproduce bug reports 00:05:00.610 --> 00:05:02.530 I'm going to detail afterwards 00:05:02.850 --> 00:05:07.750 You can tag bug reports when they are unreproducible 00:05:08.050 --> 00:05:09.750 you can merge bugs 00:05:10.280 --> 00:05:11.870 forward them upstream 00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:14.800 and deal with upstream 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:17.750 and deal with submitters 00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:21.360 and, I nearly forgot, you can 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.310 close bugs, which is really the best part 00:05:25.690 --> 00:05:27.930 So, reproducing them 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:33.040 Sometimes, you get bug reports that have not been touched in years 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:34.190 and 00:05:36.460 --> 00:05:39.450 probably they are fixed, or maybe not, but 00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:41.140 in doubt 00:05:41.490 --> 00:05:44.310 it will probably just wait there and nobody will 00:05:44.830 --> 00:05:46.950 touch the bug report because 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.430 there's a high probability it doesn't apply anymore 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:52.750 so you can test if it still applies 00:05:56.130 --> 00:05:58.120 There are also new bug reports 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.050 that are only one person reported 00:06:01.050 --> 00:06:03.050 so, if they're not tagged 00:06:03.810 --> 00:06:05.420 "confirmed" 00:06:05.970 --> 00:06:07.910 or "pending" 00:06:07.910 --> 00:06:09.910 and if you can 00:06:09.910 --> 00:06:11.910 [mic out of battery] 00:06:34.140 --> 00:06:37.440 If new bug reports have been confirmed yet, 00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:38.660 you can 00:06:39.030 --> 00:06:41.600 try and see if you can reproduce them 00:06:42.580 --> 00:06:44.730 and if yes, confirm them 00:06:46.300 --> 00:06:48.050 If you can reproduce 00:06:48.050 --> 00:06:49.810 old bugs or new bugs 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:51.810 not confirmed yet 00:06:51.810 --> 00:06:53.810 then you write to "nnn" 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:56.540 so, that's for the bug number 00:06:57.270 --> 00:06:59.850 @bugs.debian.org 00:06:59.850 --> 00:07:01.240 and tag them 00:07:01.630 --> 00:07:04.730 That's the first of the strange commands 00:07:04.730 --> 00:07:07.270 So, "found" the number of the bug 00:07:13.940 --> 00:07:15.040 version number 00:07:17.610 --> 00:07:19.900 you confirm which version 00:07:20.470 --> 00:07:22.330 and you tag it 00:07:22.330 --> 00:07:24.370 "confirmed", and "thanks", because 00:07:24.370 --> 00:07:26.370 server control is very polite 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:28.370 so if you don't thank it 00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:29.980 each time you 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:32.170 make a command, it's upset 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:40.840 Another way to 00:07:41.220 --> 00:07:43.200 triage a bug is to 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:46.290 try to reproduce it 00:07:46.500 --> 00:07:49.200 and, let's say it didn't work 00:08:00.070 --> 00:08:03.740 If you can't reproduce it and it's fixed 00:08:04.020 --> 00:08:06.880 then we'll see later you can close it 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.830 If you can't reproduce it but 00:08:09.830 --> 00:08:10.850 you're not sure it's fixed 00:08:10.850 --> 00:08:12.850 because maybe it's because you don't have the same 00:08:12.850 --> 00:08:15.150 configuration as the submitter 00:08:15.190 --> 00:08:15.780 or 00:08:16.470 --> 00:08:18.110 maybe you didn't 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:20.950 you're not sure you followed the same steps 00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:22.470 to 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:24.030 try it 00:08:24.030 --> 00:08:26.100 If you're not sure, then you 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:28.100 tag "unreproducible" 00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:30.100 or "moreinfo" 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:33.390 and it 00:08:33.390 --> 00:08:35.390 lets the submitter know 00:08:35.390 --> 00:08:37.390 and the maintainer that 00:08:38.230 --> 00:08:40.320 not everybody finds the bug 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:42.850 which can be an information 00:08:45.460 --> 00:08:47.670 Sometimes, you could have to merge them 00:08:47.670 --> 00:08:50.870 that's especially true for the new bugs because 00:08:53.280 --> 00:08:56.060 it's where they stay forever 00:08:56.060 --> 00:08:58.060 duplicates 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:01.730 That's 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:06.840 Putting them on the same package 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.160 and with the same severity and state is 00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:10.400 different operations 00:09:10.400 --> 00:09:13.070 it's detailed in the documentation 00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:15.440 and, at the end, you 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:16.620 merge 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:17.980 That's funny 00:09:19.170 --> 00:09:21.850 All the messages are gonna be 00:09:22.550 --> 00:09:24.290 put together, so 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:27.490 sometimes you have to search for a while, and 00:09:27.700 --> 00:09:29.920 there can be more than two bugs 00:09:30.790 --> 00:09:31.470 fusionned 00:09:31.470 --> 00:09:33.290 So, sometimes it's really 00:09:33.290 --> 00:09:35.020 not fusionned, merged 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:37.230 After a while, sometimes there can be 00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:38.730 three or four 00:09:38.730 --> 00:09:40.390 if people 00:09:40.390 --> 00:09:42.390 keep opening the same one 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:44.580 So, that's sometimes funny 00:09:46.430 --> 00:09:48.680 An other way is to report, 00:09:48.680 --> 00:09:51.540 to forward reports upstream 00:09:51.690 --> 00:09:52.680 because 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.130 Debian is mainly packages 00:09:56.670 --> 00:09:59.690 that are not developped for Debian but upstream 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:02.430 and only Debian packaged 00:10:02.430 --> 00:10:04.270 so, if there's a bug 00:10:04.270 --> 00:10:06.080 occurring in Debian, 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.080 in most cases it occurs 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:09.360 upstream 00:10:10.230 --> 00:10:11.620 so you can search 00:10:11.620 --> 00:10:13.820 the upstream bug tracker to see 00:10:13.820 --> 00:10:15.820 if they have similar reports 00:10:18.350 --> 00:10:19.360 If they do 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:21.360 sometimes they also have 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.360 a workaround or 00:10:23.980 --> 00:10:26.190 sometimes 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.150 upstream says they won't fix it 00:10:29.150 --> 00:10:31.590 because they don't consider it a bug or 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:38.270 When it's the case, then 00:10:40.230 --> 00:10:42.220 the information should be 00:10:42.370 --> 00:10:45.190 put in the Debian 00:10:45.190 --> 00:10:47.190 bugtracker 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:48.720 and 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:56.920 if 00:10:57.110 --> 00:11:00.620 the bug already exists in upstream, then 00:11:01.050 --> 00:11:02.620 Debian bug tracker should know it 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:05.280 so you have to tell it to the BTS 00:11:09.750 --> 00:11:12.160 That's also a command, I 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:14.470 fucked my 00:11:16.140 --> 00:11:17.670 the way to show it, but, ok 00:11:17.670 --> 00:11:18.790 that's the command 00:11:18.790 --> 00:11:21.540 so, "forwarded", the bug number 00:11:21.540 --> 00:11:22.980 in Debian 00:11:23.110 --> 00:11:26.160 and the bug number upstream 00:11:26.660 --> 00:11:29.830 and "thanks" again, because it's always polite 00:11:31.260 --> 00:11:34.580 There are other things you can do with upstream 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:36.580 Sometimes 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:38.880 they don't have the bug report 00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:40.320 but it's 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.320 obviously a bug of them 00:11:43.050 --> 00:11:44.320 so 00:11:44.800 --> 00:11:46.320 if you can reproduce 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.100 the bug, you should 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:50.100 open a bug upstream 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:51.650 which is 00:11:52.030 --> 00:11:54.030 most of the time a pain in the ass 00:11:54.030 --> 00:11:56.680 because you have to register an account 00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:58.680 or find 00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:00.680 their bug tracker or any way 00:12:02.530 --> 00:12:03.490 That's fun 00:12:09.020 --> 00:12:11.710 So, it saves time to the maintainer 00:12:11.710 --> 00:12:13.710 and the submitter 00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:18.520 sees more chances to see it solved at some point also 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:21.740 If you open 00:12:21.740 --> 00:12:24.690 the bug in the upstream bug tracker and you 00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:25.780 have to do 00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:29.760 to mark it as forwarded as we just saw 00:12:32.050 --> 00:12:34.820 Sometimes, upstream says it's fixed 00:12:35.430 --> 00:12:37.280 and then you should 00:12:37.910 --> 00:12:41.330 say to Debian bug tracker that it's fixed upstream 00:12:43.990 --> 00:12:47.110 you have to say in which version 00:12:47.780 --> 00:12:48.890 and 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:52.130 maybe the maintainer will update 00:12:52.130 --> 00:12:54.130 his package to 00:12:54.790 --> 00:12:58.010 give the fixed version 00:13:01.900 --> 00:13:04.030 and sometimes there's a patch upstream 00:13:04.030 --> 00:13:05.490 that has not been applied 00:13:05.490 --> 00:13:07.390 so you can also review 00:13:07.390 --> 00:13:09.600 and/or test it 00:13:11.250 --> 00:13:13.910 and tell them if it works 00:13:14.470 --> 00:13:15.620 or not 00:13:18.550 --> 00:13:19.630 If it works 00:13:19.630 --> 00:13:21.630 you can also 00:13:23.290 --> 00:13:26.610 bring it to the Debian bug tracking system and 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:29.100 tag the bug "patch" 00:13:31.730 --> 00:13:34.720 There's also work with submitters 00:13:38.420 --> 00:13:40.950 there's a high percentage of bugs 00:13:40.950 --> 00:13:42.620 that are tagged "moreinfo" 00:13:43.390 --> 00:13:44.620 Somebody 00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:46.130 told us 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.610 "It doesn't work" and 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:52.310 we need to know how it doesn't work 00:13:54.870 --> 00:13:56.050 Sometimes 00:13:58.290 --> 00:14:01.050 there has been a new version packaged 00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:04.650 and maybe the bug occurs, maybe not 00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:05.890 you have to know 00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:08.330 or somebody said 00:14:08.330 --> 00:14:11.460 "I'll test with this version or this setup" 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:14.880 and/or say "I'll report it upstream" and 00:14:16.130 --> 00:14:17.180 nothing happened 00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:27.770 and sometimes 00:14:27.770 --> 00:14:29.770 it stays in this 00:14:29.830 --> 00:14:32.150 "waiting for information" situation 00:14:32.150 --> 00:14:34.150 for a long time 00:14:34.150 --> 00:14:35.590 I wrote 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:37.590 a year or a release 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:39.590 because that's what I consider 00:14:39.590 --> 00:14:41.180 starting being a long time 00:14:41.180 --> 00:14:43.800 I found some, I closed some that were 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:46.650 not touched since more than ten years, that's 00:14:48.110 --> 00:14:49.300 record 00:14:51.260 --> 00:14:52.220 You can help 00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:55.160 you can send an e-mail to the 00:14:55.570 --> 00:14:57.270 person whose input is needed 00:14:57.270 --> 00:14:58.690 so, sometimes 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:00.690 the submitter, sometimes the 00:15:01.250 --> 00:15:03.690 maintainer, sometimes upstream 00:15:04.150 --> 00:15:05.200 sometimes 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:07.240 somebody else 00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:10.530 saying 00:15:10.530 --> 00:15:12.140 "You said you would do that" or 00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:13.900 "Can you still reproduce it?" 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:16.540 because 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:19.960 so that the bug report become 00:15:21.150 --> 00:15:23.520 gets in a state where we see 00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:25.230 what's the current status and 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:27.230 what should be done 00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:30.700 So, the tricky part is 00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:31.790 don't 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.210 close random bugs 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:39.050 As we'll see later, it can be dangerous 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:45.580 You can search for packages 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:47.580 that have a lot of bug reports 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:50.840 and ask the maintainer if 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.160 help is welcome, or 00:15:53.330 --> 00:15:55.400 you can find a nice team 00:15:56.330 --> 00:15:58.590 Debian is centered with 00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:01.650 composed of plenty of teams 00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:04.180 Most of them are really welcoming 00:16:04.180 --> 00:16:05.590 to new contributors 00:16:05.590 --> 00:16:07.190 because they need help 00:16:07.610 --> 00:16:09.000 and 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.720 those I met are nice 00:16:15.040 --> 00:16:16.990 and in a team, you're sure there's 00:16:16.990 --> 00:16:18.660 plenty of packages, so 00:16:18.660 --> 00:16:20.660 plenty of bugs to triage 00:16:20.660 --> 00:16:22.660 and people to answer questions 00:16:24.640 --> 00:16:25.740 I've 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:27.590 triaged bugs from 00:16:27.590 --> 00:16:29.590 perl team, games team 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:31.030 X strike force 00:16:31.030 --> 00:16:32.270 they're all very nice 00:16:32.270 --> 00:16:33.850 I recommend them to you 00:16:36.050 --> 00:16:37.490 I 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.260 tried, but I didn't get 00:16:40.260 --> 00:16:42.260 really understood anything, but 00:16:42.260 --> 00:16:43.960 if you do understand anything 00:16:44.570 --> 00:16:45.740 kernel bugs 00:16:45.740 --> 00:16:47.350 need work too 00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:55.450 On the documentation about bug triage 00:16:55.450 --> 00:16:57.450 I added a section about 00:16:57.450 --> 00:16:58.900 teams that welcome help 00:16:58.900 --> 00:17:00.520 So, if you're in a team 00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:03.130 that needs triaging, add yourself there 00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:06.250 If you want to triage 00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:07.619 look there 00:17:08.410 --> 00:17:10.079 who wants help 00:17:11.010 --> 00:17:13.240 and you don't need to understand 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.240 anything about what they do to 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:16.380 triage there bugs 00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:17.440 I mean, 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.440 Perl... I don't code 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.170 so Perl is... and 00:17:21.170 --> 00:17:22.780 X strike force is like 00:17:22.780 --> 00:17:25.230 not really written in english 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:26.119 but 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:28.240 Ok, games, I could 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.240 try to reproduce them 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.520 some of them 00:17:31.520 --> 00:17:33.440 the others, really not, but 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.440 sometime, you really can see the status 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.370 of a bug without understanding what it's about 00:17:39.970 --> 00:17:41.500 You see that if somebody asked 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:43.210 for info a year ago, 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:44.580 it has to be pinged 00:17:44.580 --> 00:17:46.030 or 00:17:46.460 --> 00:17:48.560 considered that there's not gonna be any 00:17:48.560 --> 00:17:51.020 even if you don't understand what the bug is 00:17:51.060 --> 00:17:52.680 you can see what the status 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:54.000 of the bug is 00:17:57.450 --> 00:17:58.970 A fabulous tool 00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:03.380 is ultimate Debian database bug search 00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:10.100 It looks like this 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:16.210 Please ignore that 00:18:16.840 --> 00:18:18.220 So, you select 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.220 which version 00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:24.720 you can add many filters 00:18:26.010 --> 00:18:27.040 bug types 00:18:27.040 --> 00:18:29.690 Well, actually it also includes the teams here 00:18:31.840 --> 00:18:34.470 and when you're done, you search 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:36.750 That's 00:18:37.290 --> 00:18:38.750 really useful 00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:48.090 As you see, my 00:18:48.090 --> 00:18:50.090 it doesn't look like it should 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:59.070 Criteria for bugs that have been lost 00:18:59.810 --> 00:19:02.140 If you ignore those that have been touched 00:19:02.140 --> 00:19:04.350 or created in the last year 00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:06.500 and you select 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:08.770 either "wontfix" or "moreinfo" 00:19:08.770 --> 00:19:11.330 or "upstream" or "unreproducible" 00:19:15.330 --> 00:19:16.900 then you choose a team 00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:18.090 and 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:21.180 you're gonna find lots of lost bugs 00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:23.340 then you can start reading them 00:19:23.340 --> 00:19:24.850 and see what's their status 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:33.360 If they are unreproducible 00:19:38.030 --> 00:19:39.100 if the bug 00:19:40.360 --> 00:19:42.240 has been fixed, actually 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:43.250 Well, 00:19:43.250 --> 00:19:46.160 either the new version fixes the bug or 00:19:47.590 --> 00:19:49.480 Anyway, the bug has been fixed 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.340 because it's a configuration thing anyway 00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:54.340 it doesn't happen anymore 00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:58.220 you can close it 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.000 So, that's the bug number again 00:20:01.730 --> 00:20:04.320 "done@bugs.debian.org" 00:20:04.860 --> 00:20:07.060 and you have to put 00:20:07.060 --> 00:20:09.060 in which version it has been fixed 00:20:09.060 --> 00:20:11.330 so, maybe it has been fixed 00:20:11.330 --> 00:20:13.330 in the meantime 00:20:13.330 --> 00:20:15.330 but, at least, say 00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:18.190 "this current version, I'm sure it's fixed" 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:21.820 so that the BTS knows 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.280 which version it affects and 00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:27.430 most of all, which versions are not affected 00:20:29.530 --> 00:20:32.790 There's a nice documentation page about that 00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:36.950 closing bug reports is only 00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:38.400 sending one e-mail to 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.400 "done@bugs.debian.org" 00:20:45.820 --> 00:20:49.550 That was for "unreproducible" 00:20:49.550 --> 00:20:51.550 Ok, "moreinfo" or "wontfix" 00:20:52.750 --> 00:20:53.670 For those 00:20:53.670 --> 00:20:55.670 you have to make sure with a team 00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:57.250 or the maintainer what 00:20:57.250 --> 00:20:58.980 is there policy, because 00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:01.180 some people want to keep them all 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:03.730 open forever 00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:09.820 and some "wontfix" should 00:21:09.820 --> 00:21:11.770 anyway stay open because 00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:14.110 if there are functionalities or 00:21:14.110 --> 00:21:16.110 bugs that are 00:21:16.110 --> 00:21:18.370 often requested, then 00:21:18.370 --> 00:21:20.320 it would be silly to close it 00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:22.730 then have somebody reopen it soon 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:25.230 but, lots of 00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:27.890 bugs that are tagged "moreinfo" 00:21:27.890 --> 00:21:30.100 and never got info back 00:21:30.100 --> 00:21:32.100 or are tagged "wontfix" 00:21:34.190 --> 00:21:36.550 should just be closed because there's no work 00:21:36.870 --> 00:21:39.260 that's gonna happen to them 00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:44.260 There are no 00:21:44.260 --> 00:21:46.900 guidelines on the documentation about that 00:21:46.900 --> 00:21:48.900 so I decided arbitrarily 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:51.130 one year after 00:21:51.130 --> 00:21:53.910 the submitter was pinged and didn't answer 00:21:57.530 --> 00:21:59.490 we could maybe consider that 00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:01.490 missing submitter 00:22:01.490 --> 00:22:04.300 Maybe it could be shorter, but 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.860 People could be angry also because it's also 00:22:08.410 --> 00:22:11.010 great contribution to report bugs and that should 00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:13.010 not be deleted 00:22:13.010 --> 00:22:14.140 lightly 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.600 If you're sure that the bug is 00:22:18.600 --> 00:22:20.600 really no use to anyone 00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:22.960 then, just the same 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:25.180 number "-done" 00:22:26.260 --> 00:22:29.040 with the explanation, of course 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:31.340 So, an example 00:22:32.730 --> 00:22:34.960 We're gonna do the search 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.470 "wontfix" 00:22:37.810 --> 00:22:39.970 not touched in the last year, perl 00:22:46.650 --> 00:22:48.200 Include "wontfix" 00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:56.150 ignore 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.430 created or modified in the last 00:23:00.430 --> 00:23:02.430 year or so 00:23:03.260 --> 00:23:06.180 and let's see those of the perl team 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:25.370 All those bugs 00:23:25.370 --> 00:23:27.630 from different packages 00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:28.930 but they're all 00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:32.690 they all respond to the same criteria 00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:36.040 and we can sort them 00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:38.040 by the last time they were modified 00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:43.790 lots of them have been forgotten for some years 00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:48.010 and, well, the 00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:51.750 next step is to start reading the reports 00:23:53.610 --> 00:23:55.710 since I did prepare a little bit 00:23:55.710 --> 00:23:57.350 even if not much 00:23:57.530 --> 00:23:59.560 I selected one, so 00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:01.970 there's one that can be read 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:05.160 and I won't read it 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.160 completely with you today, but 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.370 you see that 00:24:11.370 --> 00:24:13.370 the conclusion is 00:24:13.370 --> 00:24:15.900 upstream considered it's not a bug 00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:18.270 it was told in 00:24:18.270 --> 00:24:19.850 2010 00:24:19.850 --> 00:24:20.930 so 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.380 there has been time 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.380 to let people know 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:29.470 [laughter] 00:24:30.280 --> 00:24:32.930 and it's closed upstream 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:35.680 so, that's the bug report upstream 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.680 where upstream says 00:24:38.380 --> 00:24:41.230 "It does according to the man page" 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:42.640 "closing" 00:24:43.130 --> 00:24:45.070 So, upstream closed it 00:24:46.070 --> 00:24:47.550 we should do the same 00:24:48.410 --> 00:24:49.550 So, I did it 00:24:49.550 --> 00:24:51.550 and I 00:24:51.550 --> 00:24:54.180 won't show you now, so I 00:24:58.170 --> 00:24:59.880 sent this e-mail 00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:01.880 just before I came in 00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:06.910 to -done 00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:08.290 subject: 00:25:10.530 --> 00:25:13.000 we use a bug 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.000 report 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.000 subject, so that people 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.000 know what it's about 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.000 and I precise that I'm closing it 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.820 and then, that's my standard message 00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:30.070 "Hi, I'm closing this bug since it was 00:25:30.070 --> 00:25:32.070 tagged unreproducible for some 00:25:32.070 --> 00:25:33.450 years without answer 00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:35.450 If you have new reasons to point 00:25:35.450 --> 00:25:37.570 out this problem, please feel free 00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:39.570 to reopen or ask me to do it" 00:25:41.300 --> 00:25:43.360 That's because not all submitters 00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:45.500 know all the subtleties 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:48.480 of the control server 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.480 and not all of them 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.480 know how to reopen a bug 00:25:53.510 --> 00:25:56.990 so asking them to reopen 00:25:56.990 --> 00:25:58.990 a bug can be 00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:00.990 a little bit to much, so 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.540 if I closed it 00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:05.440 and it was not a good idea, they can 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.440 ask me to reopen it, so 00:26:08.870 --> 00:26:12.650 nobody becomes lost in the way 00:26:17.230 --> 00:26:20.270 Sometimes, there are bug reports where 00:26:20.270 --> 00:26:22.380 probably it should be 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:24.280 closed or merged 00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:25.870 or something, but you're not 00:26:25.870 --> 00:26:27.870 completely sure 00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:32.800 There no hurry, most of them 00:26:32.800 --> 00:26:34.800 are waiting since a while anyway 00:26:34.800 --> 00:26:36.800 so just take 00:26:36.800 --> 00:26:38.800 some days, weeks, months 00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:40.800 or years 00:26:41.270 --> 00:26:42.980 as it happens, and 00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:46.070 maybe next time you 00:26:46.070 --> 00:26:48.300 open this bug report, it will be 00:26:48.300 --> 00:26:50.300 way clearer what you should do with it 00:26:50.300 --> 00:26:53.370 because more experience or 00:26:54.610 --> 00:26:56.180 clearer mind that day 00:26:57.190 --> 00:26:58.470 You can also 00:26:58.470 --> 00:27:00.470 ask for opinions from 00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:03.210 the maintainers if they are 00:27:04.090 --> 00:27:06.760 willing to help or to 00:27:07.520 --> 00:27:09.380 other friends or 00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:11.380 team members 00:27:13.810 --> 00:27:14.940 Warning 00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:18.290 that's the point 00:27:18.290 --> 00:27:20.820 earlier about not closing random bugs 00:27:20.820 --> 00:27:22.820 if the maintainer doesn't have 00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:24.820 time to triage his bugs 00:27:24.820 --> 00:27:26.820 or her bugs, they don't 00:27:26.820 --> 00:27:28.820 necessarily have time to 00:27:29.710 --> 00:27:31.250 explain to you 00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:33.540 in which case they want it closed or not 00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:36.660 That's why it's good to 00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:38.900 work in a team because 00:27:38.900 --> 00:27:41.260 that's more likely you have somebody available 00:27:41.260 --> 00:27:43.740 to help you, in doubt 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.250 Another important part is 00:27:48.250 --> 00:27:50.250 say what you're doing 00:27:50.560 --> 00:27:51.890 because 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:54.660 if people don't understand what 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:56.660 you're doing, they 00:27:56.660 --> 00:27:58.060 might react badly 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:01.660 Make sure everybody 00:28:01.660 --> 00:28:03.360 get the information they need 00:28:03.360 --> 00:28:05.630 because if you're closing a bug 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:07.890 then the submitter gets 00:28:07.890 --> 00:28:09.890 the information 00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:11.890 but if you add a 00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:13.890 tag, they don't, and 00:28:13.890 --> 00:28:15.890 other people that answered the 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:17.730 bug report saying they 00:28:17.730 --> 00:28:19.730 also got the problem, don't 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:21.730 get the information 00:28:22.310 --> 00:28:24.490 so sometimes 00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:29.000 sometimes you have to check who 00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:32.490 provided input to the bug report 00:28:32.490 --> 00:28:37.200 and make sure you copy them to the 00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:39.910 mails you're sending so that they 00:28:39.910 --> 00:28:41.910 get information 00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:47.630 Don't write a novel 00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:49.630 when you close or triage bugs 00:28:49.630 --> 00:28:52.130 but give all information 00:28:52.130 --> 00:28:54.130 so that people can understand 00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:56.130 what you're doing, so that they have 00:28:56.130 --> 00:28:58.130 a little bit of context and don't need 00:28:58.130 --> 00:29:00.130 to read the whole thread 00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:03.150 to know why you're doing it, so 00:29:03.730 --> 00:29:05.990 in the example I gave earlier 00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:07.990 I copy the subject 00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:10.660 of the bug report so that they know 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:13.040 what was a bug report and I say 00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:15.050 its status 00:29:15.050 --> 00:29:17.330 that's why I take this decision, so 00:29:17.860 --> 00:29:20.120 they have an idea what's happening 00:29:21.090 --> 00:29:22.070 and 00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:26.510 you can have generic messages 00:29:26.510 --> 00:29:28.510 you don't need to innovate 00:29:28.510 --> 00:29:30.510 each time so that you just copy and 00:29:30.510 --> 00:29:32.510 paste and 00:29:32.510 --> 00:29:34.510 maybe change a few words 00:29:35.110 --> 00:29:36.090 and 00:29:37.810 --> 00:29:39.180 since you just copy-paste 00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:41.180 it doesn't take more time, so 00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:43.430 write a few nice words 00:29:43.560 --> 00:29:45.920 it helps 00:29:50.640 --> 00:30:02.480 [laughter and applause] 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:04.590 Beware, there be dragons 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.680 I stopped closing bugs the last 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:10.570 two months because I closed one from 00:30:10.570 --> 00:30:12.570 Ian Jackson 00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:14.570 and it was a bad idea 00:30:14.570 --> 00:30:15.670 and 00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:17.970 it was such a bad idea 00:30:17.970 --> 00:30:19.840 I lost my enthusiasm 00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:21.460 for a few months 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.340 if you meet a bug by Ian Jackson 00:30:25.340 --> 00:30:27.340 if everything seems 00:30:27.340 --> 00:30:28.950 like it should be closed 00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:31.450 or tagged, maybe 00:30:31.730 --> 00:30:34.120 just close your tab 00:30:34.320 --> 00:30:36.510 ignore it 00:30:36.510 --> 00:30:38.510 just, it doesn't exist 00:30:38.510 --> 00:30:39.920 you know 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:41.830 you certainly have 00:30:41.830 --> 00:30:43.830 better things to do with you life 00:30:43.830 --> 00:30:45.830 you do, really 00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:53.290 I have to be frank, that's 00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:55.620 that's him, but 00:30:55.620 --> 00:30:58.210 there are probably others out there 00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:03.550 but keep on 00:31:03.550 --> 00:31:06.330 There are also very very nice people 00:31:06.330 --> 00:31:08.520 in Debian, some that 00:31:08.520 --> 00:31:10.520 with whom you can work 00:31:10.520 --> 00:31:12.930 and talk and that are 00:31:13.310 --> 00:31:15.140 helpful and nice 00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:17.830 and welcoming 00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:20.310 and remember: bug triaging is fun 00:31:20.310 --> 00:31:22.600 and rewarding and easy 00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:24.780 Well, once you started 00:31:26.850 --> 00:31:27.860 That's it. 00:31:27.860 --> 00:31:41.250 [applause] 00:31:41.250 --> 00:31:43.250 Do you have questions? 00:31:43.250 --> 00:31:45.250 I guess not, but 00:31:58.360 --> 00:32:00.290 [Q] Hi, do you have 00:32:00.290 --> 00:32:02.220 some other real life stories 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.220 of your adventures in bug fixing? 00:32:04.220 --> 00:32:09.510 [laughter] 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:11.620 [A] Ok, I didn't 00:32:11.620 --> 00:32:14.170 I should have open them, I 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:16.850 closed a bug that was 00:32:16.850 --> 00:32:18.850 more than ten years old 00:32:18.850 --> 00:32:20.850 That was something fun 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.410 Some submitters wrote 00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:27.410 to me, asking for me to reopen 00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:29.410 them, so it's not just a 00:32:29.410 --> 00:32:32.140 technical proposition 00:32:32.140 --> 00:32:34.690 It does 00:32:34.690 --> 00:32:37.700 It is useful to propose to reopen for them 00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:43.340 Lots of people thanked me, actually, which 00:32:44.260 --> 00:32:45.920 is always nice 00:32:48.790 --> 00:32:51.390 My maintainer friends are sometimes 00:32:51.390 --> 00:32:53.760 jealous when I can say 00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:55.840 "I closed 20 bugs today" 00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:59.150 [laughter] 00:32:59.280 --> 00:33:03.940 and they painfully closed one 00:33:08.260 --> 00:33:11.010 I'll keep you... up to date 00:33:11.010 --> 00:33:14.820 with new bug triaging stories 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.750 [Q] From IRC, from Peyaro 00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:33.500 What to do with bugs tagged "patch" with a 00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:35.600 patch sent as last message but 00:33:35.600 --> 00:33:38.250 no response from the maintainer? 00:33:41.020 --> 00:33:43.980 [A] You watch if the maintainer is active 00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:45.980 in his packages 00:33:46.340 --> 00:33:48.320 if he is, then 00:33:49.690 --> 00:33:51.480 try to ping him again 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.140 and again 00:33:53.140 --> 00:33:55.710 if he's not responsive 00:33:55.710 --> 00:33:57.710 to anything, then 00:33:57.710 --> 00:33:59.910 you should declare him 00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:01.910 "missing in action" 00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.110 You have to write to them 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.510 Well if they don't do their job properly 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.150 you can propose to help 00:34:26.150 --> 00:34:28.150 or find somebody else to 00:34:28.150 --> 00:34:30.150 make a non-maintainer upload 00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:32.150 I guess 00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:34.889 but 00:34:35.510 --> 00:34:37.790 triaging is meant 00:34:37.790 --> 00:34:39.790 to help maintainers so 00:34:39.790 --> 00:34:41.230 you don't 00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:45.100 It's not the right place to 00:34:45.100 --> 00:34:47.100 start nagging them about the fact that 00:34:47.100 --> 00:34:49.100 they don't do their work properly 00:34:49.100 --> 00:34:51.100 They probably have reasons to 00:35:06.110 --> 00:35:11.660 [Indistinctible question] 00:35:13.930 --> 00:35:17.020 [Q] In the games team if there's a game with a bug 00:35:17.020 --> 00:35:19.020 you send it to the mailing list, you send it to 00:35:19.020 --> 00:35:21.020 the latest 00:35:21.020 --> 00:35:23.020 uploader 00:35:23.020 --> 00:35:25.020 ??? 00:35:25.020 --> 00:35:25.930 contact with 00:35:25.930 --> 00:35:27.930 [A] When I want to do what? 00:35:27.930 --> 00:35:29.930 [Q] When you find a bug 00:35:29.930 --> 00:35:33.430 in a package that is 00:35:33.430 --> 00:35:35.430 maintained by a team 00:35:35.430 --> 00:35:37.430 by a person 00:35:37.430 --> 00:35:39.430 Can you hear me? 00:35:39.430 --> 00:35:41.430 What a difference! 00:35:42.590 --> 00:35:45.090 [Q] When you 00:35:45.090 --> 00:35:47.090 are dealing with a bug that is not 00:35:47.090 --> 00:35:49.090 maintained by just one person 00:35:49.090 --> 00:35:51.090 but by a team 00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:53.090 what do you usually do, you 00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:57.900 you contact the mailing list of that 00:35:57.900 --> 00:36:01.210 team, you contact the last uploader 00:36:01.210 --> 00:36:03.210 [A] I put the team 00:36:03.210 --> 00:36:05.210 in copy and not just 00:36:05.210 --> 00:36:06.790 the uploader because 00:36:06.790 --> 00:36:08.790 the uploader, if 00:36:08.790 --> 00:36:10.790 the uploader belongs to a team 00:36:10.790 --> 00:36:12.790 then they're gonna 00:36:12.790 --> 00:36:14.990 see the e-mail on the team list 00:36:15.610 --> 00:36:19.080 and sometimes, other are 00:36:19.080 --> 00:36:21.460 dealing with a package also, so 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:24.230 [Q] Would it make sense to have 00:36:24.230 --> 00:36:26.030 at least in some teams 00:36:26.030 --> 00:36:28.030 some person 00:36:28.030 --> 00:36:31.080 devolute to interfacing with the bugs and stuff 00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:35.040 [A] I think 00:36:35.040 --> 00:36:37.040 it's useful if teams 00:36:37.040 --> 00:36:40.290 list themselves as welcoming 00:36:40.290 --> 00:36:42.070 bug triagers 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:44.740 and if they can provide a 00:36:44.740 --> 00:36:46.740 reference person it might 00:36:46.740 --> 00:36:48.280 be helpful too 00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.740 That's how I 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:53.950 started in each team, because I 00:36:53.950 --> 00:36:56.030 was sure I had one person who would 00:36:56.030 --> 00:36:58.030 answer my question and 00:36:58.030 --> 00:37:00.300 tell me nicely if I fucked up 00:37:02.680 --> 00:37:05.050 I was kind of scared to be 00:37:06.730 --> 00:37:08.760 beaten 00:37:10.430 --> 00:37:13.090 Yeah, it's probably useful for teams to say 00:37:13.680 --> 00:37:16.830 "We welcome triagers and here's the person who's 00:37:16.830 --> 00:37:18.830 willing to deal with them" 00:37:18.830 --> 00:37:20.830 [Q] How do you do that? In a web page? 00:37:20.830 --> 00:37:21.910 In the wiki? 00:37:23.170 --> 00:37:26.360 just maybe a wiki page or something like that 00:37:35.810 --> 00:37:38.230 On the bug triage documentation 00:37:38.230 --> 00:37:40.380 I added the 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.630 teams that welcome help, so that 00:37:43.450 --> 00:37:45.270 but games is already listed there 00:37:46.660 --> 00:37:48.810 I listed the ones 00:37:48.810 --> 00:37:51.620 I had experimented 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.440 But, yeah 00:37:54.990 --> 00:37:58.280 I haven't written a contact person 00:37:58.990 --> 00:37:59.720 because 00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:02.420 [Q] I was thinking that maybe 00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:05.060 thinking aloud 00:38:05.060 --> 00:38:08.150 that maybe it would be a good entry point 00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:11.840 for someone who wanted to join the games team 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.840 and wasn't a developer 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.840 to help triaging 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.840 bugs in that 00:38:18.260 --> 00:38:20.670 I mean, we have a lot of games, and 00:38:21.970 --> 00:38:25.200 [A] I have a good excuse to install 00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:27.200 all the games on my computer because I 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:29.200 was trying to reproduce bugs 00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:31.200 [Q] Exactly! 00:38:33.250 --> 00:38:35.320 [A] I think, well 00:38:35.580 --> 00:38:37.750 I didn't want to join teams 00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:40.120 I'm glad to help from outside 00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:41.860 but I think it's a good way because 00:38:41.860 --> 00:38:43.860 you get to see 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:45.860 very different packages 00:38:45.860 --> 00:38:48.360 [Q] I would mean someone more specialized 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.360 I'm talking about the games team 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.280 I could be talking about the ??? team 00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.280 or the perl team 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:57.280 someone who's 00:38:58.160 --> 00:39:00.300 who knows more or less 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:02.200 who's more specialized in the kind of 00:39:02.200 --> 00:39:04.200 packaging the team is doing 00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:06.680 but also is not a developer or it's not 00:39:06.680 --> 00:39:09.480 working that closely as a developer 00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:12.500 but could be, I mean, the place where a specialized 00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:16.110 I don't mean as part of the 00:39:16.110 --> 00:39:17.730 bug triaging team 00:39:17.730 --> 00:39:20.100 I could be speaking about the fonts team 00:39:20.100 --> 00:39:22.710 Someone inside a team that 00:39:22.710 --> 00:39:24.710 wants to work on that 00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.210 [A] That's also funny because when you do 00:39:27.210 --> 00:39:29.210 bug triaging you also get to 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.470 read all the exchange 00:39:31.470 --> 00:39:33.470 on the bug, so you also 00:39:34.120 --> 00:39:36.370 kind of discover the 00:39:36.670 --> 00:39:38.370 developers of the team 00:39:38.370 --> 00:39:40.370 You see how they react, how they 00:39:40.370 --> 00:39:42.370 answer to bug reports 00:39:42.720 --> 00:39:44.720 what information they want 00:39:45.200 --> 00:39:47.160 their level of patience 00:39:48.890 --> 00:39:51.280 So, if you want to start contributing to 00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.280 a team, that's also a good way to get 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.280 to know the people you're gonna 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.380 work with 00:40:03.350 --> 00:40:05.200 Last one? 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.320 No. Then, there's time for a pause 00:40:11.110 --> 00:40:16.180 [applause]