WEBVTT 00:00:01.116 --> 00:00:05.869 Would you ever forgive a person who kills a member of your family? 00:00:07.027 --> 00:00:09.712 In September of 2019, 00:00:09.736 --> 00:00:14.447 Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was sentenced for murder, 00:00:15.558 --> 00:00:19.156 and then the brother of the victim 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:20.559 forgave her. 00:00:21.845 --> 00:00:24.560 Brandt Jean was 18 years old, 00:00:24.584 --> 00:00:30.253 and I joined the rest of the country watching on television in awe 00:00:30.277 --> 00:00:32.055 at that act of grace. 00:00:32.784 --> 00:00:34.379 But I also worried. 00:00:35.286 --> 00:00:40.034 I worried that people who are African American like Brandt Jean 00:00:40.058 --> 00:00:43.549 are expected to forgive more often than other people. 00:00:44.801 --> 00:00:48.535 And I worried that a white police officer like Amber Guyger 00:00:48.559 --> 00:00:50.864 receives a lesser sentence 00:00:50.888 --> 00:00:53.945 than other people who commit wrongful killings. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:54.841 --> 00:00:56.772 But because I'm a law professor, 00:00:57.750 --> 00:01:00.824 I also worried about the law itself. 00:01:01.764 --> 00:01:06.653 The law leans so severely towards punishment these days 00:01:06.677 --> 00:01:09.205 that it's part of the problem. 00:01:09.814 --> 00:01:11.984 And that's what I want to talk about here. 00:01:13.035 --> 00:01:17.527 The powerful example of one individual's forgiveness 00:01:17.551 --> 00:01:23.385 makes me worry that lawyers and officials too often overlook the tools 00:01:23.409 --> 00:01:27.975 that law itself creates to allow forgiveness, 00:01:27.999 --> 00:01:32.965 when the principle should be the cornerstone of a thriving society. 00:01:34.145 --> 00:01:40.304 I worry that lawyers and officials do not adequately use the tools of forgiveness, 00:01:40.328 --> 00:01:44.578 by which I mean letting go of justified grievance. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:44.990 --> 00:01:46.283 And those tools are many. 00:01:46.307 --> 00:01:51.369 They include pardons, commutations, expungement, 00:01:51.393 --> 00:01:53.389 bankruptcy for debt, 00:01:53.413 --> 00:01:57.786 and the discretion that's held by police and prosecutors and judges. 00:01:59.072 --> 00:02:01.335 But I also worry -- I worry a lot -- NOTE Paragraph 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:02.384 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:02.408 --> 00:02:08.806 I worry these tools, when used, replicate the disparities, 00:02:08.830 --> 00:02:12.666 the inequities along the lines of race and class and other markers 00:02:12.690 --> 00:02:14.612 of advantage and disadvantage. 00:02:15.025 --> 00:02:18.723 Biases or privileged access are at work 00:02:18.747 --> 00:02:24.602 when United States presidents pardon people charged with crimes. 00:02:25.027 --> 00:02:29.220 Historically, white people are pardoned four times as often 00:02:29.244 --> 00:02:34.461 as members of minority groups for the same crime, same sentence. 00:02:35.576 --> 00:02:41.462 Forgiveness between individuals is supported by every religious tradition, 00:02:41.486 --> 00:02:43.625 every philosophic tradition. 00:02:43.649 --> 00:02:46.217 And medical evidence now shows 00:02:46.241 --> 00:02:51.273 the health benefits of letting go of grievances and resentments. 00:02:52.193 --> 00:02:56.794 As Nelson Mandela led South Africa's transition 00:02:56.818 --> 00:02:58.506 from apartheid to democracy, 00:02:58.530 --> 00:03:00.290 he explained, 00:03:00.314 --> 00:03:06.654 "Resentment is like drinking a poison and hoping it will kill your enemies." NOTE Paragraph 00:03:08.352 --> 00:03:12.777 Law can remove the penalties for those who apologize and seek forgiveness. 00:03:12.801 --> 00:03:16.570 For example, in 39 states in the United States 00:03:16.594 --> 00:03:18.570 and the District of Columbia, 00:03:18.594 --> 00:03:22.152 there are laws that allow medical professionals to apologize 00:03:22.176 --> 00:03:23.383 when something goes wrong 00:03:23.407 --> 00:03:28.037 and not fear that that statement could later be used against them 00:03:28.061 --> 00:03:30.737 in an action for damages. 00:03:31.086 --> 00:03:35.903 More actively, bankruptcy law offers debtors, under some conditions, 00:03:35.927 --> 00:03:37.625 the chance to start anew. 00:03:38.196 --> 00:03:42.538 Pardons and expungements sealing criminal records can, too. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:49.800 I have been teaching law for almost 40 years, hard to believe, 00:03:49.824 --> 00:03:52.630 but recently, I realized 00:03:52.654 --> 00:03:56.917 that we don't teach law students about the tools of forgiveness 00:03:56.941 --> 00:03:58.545 that are within the legal system, 00:03:58.569 --> 00:04:02.227 and nor do law schools usually explore 00:04:02.251 --> 00:04:05.650 the potential for new avenues for forgiveness 00:04:05.674 --> 00:04:07.904 that law can adopt or assist. 00:04:08.564 --> 00:04:10.670 These are lost opportunities. 00:04:10.694 --> 00:04:13.464 These are lost obligations, even, 00:04:13.488 --> 00:04:16.948 because the students that I teach 00:04:16.972 --> 00:04:22.399 will become prosecutors, judges, governors, presidents. 00:04:23.063 --> 00:04:25.488 Barack Obama, my former student, 00:04:25.512 --> 00:04:31.434 used his power as the President of the United States to give pardons. 00:04:31.902 --> 00:04:36.993 That released several hundred people from prison after the law changed 00:04:37.017 --> 00:04:39.874 to provide shorter sentences for the same drug crimes 00:04:39.898 --> 00:04:41.554 for which they had been convicted. 00:04:41.578 --> 00:04:45.538 But if he hadn't used his pardon power, they would still be in prison. 00:04:46.752 --> 00:04:50.055 Legal tools of forgiveness should be used more, 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.539 but not without reason and not with bias. 00:04:53.563 --> 00:04:58.286 A "New Yorker" cartoon shows a judge with a big nose and a big mustache 00:04:58.310 --> 00:05:01.818 looking down at a defendant with the exact same nose 00:05:01.842 --> 00:05:03.306 and exact same mustache 00:05:03.330 --> 00:05:05.750 and says, "Obviously not guilty." NOTE Paragraph 00:05:05.774 --> 00:05:07.226 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:11.531 Forgiveness could undermine the commitment that law has 00:05:11.555 --> 00:05:15.778 to treat people the same under the same circumstances, 00:05:15.802 --> 00:05:17.707 to apply rules evenly. 00:05:17.731 --> 00:05:22.181 In this age of resentment, mass incarceration, 00:05:22.205 --> 00:05:24.776 widespread consumer debt, 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:29.182 we need more forgiveness, but we need a philosophy of forgiveness. 00:05:29.206 --> 00:05:31.389 We need to forgive fairly. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:32.928 --> 00:05:37.398 Contrast the treatment globally of child soldiers 00:05:37.422 --> 00:05:41.422 with the treatment of juvenile offenders in the United States. 00:05:42.072 --> 00:05:45.644 International human rights condemn and punish adults 00:05:45.668 --> 00:05:48.369 who involve children in armed conflict 00:05:48.393 --> 00:05:50.419 as those most responsible, 00:05:50.443 --> 00:05:54.053 but treat the children themselves quite differently. 00:05:54.640 --> 00:05:56.702 The International Criminal Court, 00:05:56.726 --> 00:06:00.113 now with 122 member nations, 00:06:00.137 --> 00:06:04.708 convicted Thomas Lubanga, warlord in the [Democratic Republic of the] Congo, 00:06:04.732 --> 00:06:11.627 for enlisting, recruiting and deploying children, teens, as soldiers. 00:06:12.096 --> 00:06:17.001 Many nations commit to ensuring that people under the age of 15 00:06:17.025 --> 00:06:18.926 do not become child soldiers, 00:06:18.950 --> 00:06:23.231 and most nations treat those who do become soldiers 00:06:23.255 --> 00:06:25.584 not as objects of punishment 00:06:25.608 --> 00:06:28.045 but as people deserving a fresh start. 00:06:28.901 --> 00:06:34.717 Compare and contrast how the United States treats juvenile offenders, 00:06:34.741 --> 00:06:37.171 where we severely punish minors, 00:06:37.195 --> 00:06:41.256 often moving them to adult courts, even adult prisons. 00:06:41.280 --> 00:06:44.068 And yet, like child soldiers, 00:06:44.092 --> 00:06:48.764 teens and children are drawn into violent activity in the United States 00:06:48.788 --> 00:06:50.954 when there are few options, 00:06:50.978 --> 00:06:52.232 when they are threatened 00:06:52.256 --> 00:06:56.389 or when adults induce them with money or ideology. 00:06:57.451 --> 00:07:03.625 The rhetoric of innocence is resonant when we talk about child soldiers, 00:07:03.649 --> 00:07:08.121 but not when we talk about teen gang members in the United States. 00:07:08.883 --> 00:07:13.084 Yet in both settings, youth are caught in worlds that are made by adults, 00:07:13.108 --> 00:07:16.839 and forgiveness can offer both accountability and fresh starts. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:17.914 --> 00:07:23.069 What if, instead, young people caught in criminal activity and violence 00:07:23.093 --> 00:07:26.675 could have chances to accept responsibility 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:31.863 while learning and rebuilding their lives and their own communities? 00:07:32.410 --> 00:07:36.121 Legal frameworks inviting youth to describe their conduct 00:07:36.145 --> 00:07:39.802 could also involve community members to hear and forgive. 00:07:40.365 --> 00:07:42.009 Called "restorative justice," 00:07:42.033 --> 00:07:46.401 such efforts emphasize accountability and service 00:07:46.425 --> 00:07:48.005 rather than punishment. 00:07:49.275 --> 00:07:54.440 Many schools in the United States have turned to use restorative justice methods 00:07:54.464 --> 00:07:57.628 to resolve conflicts and to prevent them, 00:07:57.652 --> 00:08:00.457 and to disrupt the school-to-prison pipeline. 00:08:01.467 --> 00:08:05.403 Some American high schools have replaced automatic suspensions 00:08:05.427 --> 00:08:08.999 with opportunities for victims to narrate their experiences 00:08:09.023 --> 00:08:12.415 and for offenders to take responsibility for their actions. 00:08:12.795 --> 00:08:17.436 As they describe their experiences and feelings about a theft 00:08:17.460 --> 00:08:21.777 or hateful graffiti or a verbal or physical assault, 00:08:21.801 --> 00:08:25.462 the victims and offenders often express strong emotions. 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.611 And other members of the community take turns 00:08:28.635 --> 00:08:31.413 describing the impact of the offense on them. 00:08:32.683 --> 00:08:38.807 The leader is often a student peer, who is trained to deescalate the conflict 00:08:38.831 --> 00:08:42.904 and orchestrate a conversation about what the offender can do 00:08:42.928 --> 00:08:44.691 that would help the victim. 00:08:44.715 --> 00:08:48.536 Together, they come to an agreement about how to move forward, 00:08:48.560 --> 00:08:51.505 what the wrongdoer can do to repair the injury, 00:08:51.529 --> 00:08:55.547 and what all could do to better avoid future conflicts. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:56.452 --> 00:08:59.819 Consider this example, recently in a publication. 00:09:00.359 --> 00:09:04.975 A young woman named Mercedes M. transferred, in California, 00:09:04.999 --> 00:09:06.768 from one high school to another 00:09:06.792 --> 00:09:10.292 after she was so repeatedly suspended in her old high school 00:09:10.316 --> 00:09:11.839 for getting into fights. 00:09:12.345 --> 00:09:14.053 And here in her new high school, 00:09:14.928 --> 00:09:19.526 two other young women accused her of lying 00:09:19.550 --> 00:09:22.583 and called her the b-word. 00:09:23.323 --> 00:09:27.047 A counselor came over and talked to her and earned enough trust 00:09:27.071 --> 00:09:32.179 that she acknowledged she had stolen the shoes of one of the other classmates. 00:09:33.104 --> 00:09:36.262 Turns out, the three of them had known each other for a long time, 00:09:36.286 --> 00:09:39.043 and they didn't know any other way to deal with each other 00:09:39.067 --> 00:09:40.344 other than to fight. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:40.942 --> 00:09:45.484 The facilitator invited them to participate in a circle, 00:09:45.508 --> 00:09:47.806 a confidential conversation about what happened, 00:09:47.830 --> 00:09:49.117 and they agreed. 00:09:49.141 --> 00:09:53.982 And initially, each of them expressed a lot of emotion. 00:09:55.107 --> 00:09:57.633 And then Mercedes apologized. 00:09:58.549 --> 00:10:01.169 And she said she had stolen the shoes 00:10:01.193 --> 00:10:04.768 but she did so because she wanted to sell them 00:10:04.792 --> 00:10:09.139 and take the money to pay for a drug test 00:10:09.163 --> 00:10:12.370 so that her mother could show she was clean 00:10:12.394 --> 00:10:15.887 and try to regain custody of two younger children 00:10:15.911 --> 00:10:18.956 who were then in state protective care. 00:10:20.829 --> 00:10:23.228 The other girls heard this, 00:10:23.252 --> 00:10:24.640 saw Mercedes crying, 00:10:24.664 --> 00:10:25.852 and they hugged her. 00:10:26.927 --> 00:10:29.622 They did not ask her to return what she'd stolen, 00:10:29.646 --> 00:10:32.226 but they did say they wanted a restart. 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:34.544 They wanted a reason they could trust her. 00:10:34.568 --> 00:10:36.804 Later, Mercedes explained 00:10:36.828 --> 00:10:39.167 that she was sure she would have been suspended 00:10:39.191 --> 00:10:40.797 if they hadn't had this process. 00:10:40.821 --> 00:10:44.559 And her high school has reduced suspensions by more than half 00:10:44.583 --> 00:10:47.654 through the use of this kind of restorative justice method. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:48.941 --> 00:10:53.235 Restorative justice alternatives involve offenders and victims 00:10:53.259 --> 00:10:54.831 in communicating in ways 00:10:54.855 --> 00:10:58.139 that an adversarial and defensive process does not allow, 00:10:58.163 --> 00:11:00.983 and it's become the go-to method 00:11:01.007 --> 00:11:04.726 in places like the District of Columbia juvenile justice system 00:11:04.750 --> 00:11:08.690 and innovations like Los Angeles's Teen Court. 00:11:09.834 --> 00:11:12.074 If tuned to fairness, 00:11:12.995 --> 00:11:16.809 forgiveness methods like bankruptcy would be available 00:11:16.833 --> 00:11:21.286 not only for the for-profit college that goes belly-up 00:11:21.310 --> 00:11:24.180 but also for the students stuck with the loans; 00:11:24.886 --> 00:11:27.710 pardons would not be given to campaign contributors; 00:11:27.734 --> 00:11:33.001 and black men would no longer have 20 percent longer criminal sentences 00:11:33.025 --> 00:11:34.255 than do white men, 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:37.345 due to how judges exercise discretion. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:38.452 --> 00:11:43.514 Forgiveness across the board is one way to avoid such biases. 00:11:44.035 --> 00:11:48.372 Sometimes, a society just needs a reset 00:11:48.396 --> 00:11:50.593 when it comes to punishment and debt. 00:11:51.384 --> 00:11:56.319 The Bible calls for periodic forgiveness of debts 00:11:56.343 --> 00:11:58.624 and freeing prisoners, 00:11:58.648 --> 00:12:02.064 and it recently helped to inspire a global movement. 00:12:02.923 --> 00:12:07.138 Jubilee 2000 joined Pope John Paul II 00:12:07.162 --> 00:12:09.838 and rock star Bono and over 60 nations 00:12:09.862 --> 00:12:14.731 in an effort to seek the cancellation and succeed in canceling 00:12:14.755 --> 00:12:17.034 the debt of developing countries, 00:12:17.058 --> 00:12:20.088 amounting to over 100 billion dollars 00:12:20.112 --> 00:12:21.724 of debt canceled, 00:12:23.956 --> 00:12:27.356 resulting in measurable reduction in poverty. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:28.747 --> 00:12:32.008 In a similar spirit, there are people who are copying the techniques 00:12:32.032 --> 00:12:33.522 of commercial debt collectors 00:12:33.546 --> 00:12:36.522 who purchase debt for pennies on the dollar 00:12:36.546 --> 00:12:38.611 and then seek to enforce it. 00:12:39.666 --> 00:12:43.492 Late-night television host John Oliver partnered with a nonprofit group 00:12:43.516 --> 00:12:46.487 called RIP Medical Debt, 00:12:47.769 --> 00:12:50.287 and for only 60,000 dollars, 00:12:50.311 --> 00:12:55.148 they purchased 15 million dollars' worth of medical debt, 00:12:55.172 --> 00:12:56.933 and then they forgave it. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:58.115 --> 00:13:02.114 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:13:04.469 --> 00:13:10.972 That allowed nearly 9,000 people to have a restart in their lives. 00:13:10.996 --> 00:13:15.515 This kind of precedent should trigger and encourage more such actions. 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.513 It's time for a reset, 00:13:17.537 --> 00:13:19.422 given mass incarceration, 00:13:19.446 --> 00:13:21.667 medical and consumer debt 00:13:21.691 --> 00:13:24.435 and given indigent criminal defendants 00:13:24.459 --> 00:13:26.929 who are charged and put in debt 00:13:26.953 --> 00:13:30.524 because they're expected to pay for their own probation officers 00:13:30.548 --> 00:13:32.722 and their own electronic monitors. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:34.335 --> 00:13:36.568 Forgiving violations of law 00:13:36.592 --> 00:13:38.986 or promises to pay back loans 00:13:39.010 --> 00:13:40.738 does pose risks. 00:13:41.216 --> 00:13:43.799 Forgiveness may encourage more violations. 00:13:43.823 --> 00:13:45.987 Economists even have a name for it. 00:13:46.011 --> 00:13:48.340 They call it "moral hazard." 00:13:49.507 --> 00:13:53.191 Should there be amnesty for immigration violations? 00:13:53.215 --> 00:13:56.674 Should a president offer pardons to protect himself 00:13:56.698 --> 00:13:58.580 or to induce lawbreaking? 00:13:59.038 --> 00:14:01.860 These are tough questions for our time. 00:14:02.934 --> 00:14:06.888 But escalating resentments hold their own dangers. 00:14:06.912 --> 00:14:10.094 So does attributing blame to individuals 00:14:10.118 --> 00:14:13.648 for circumstances largely outside their own control. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:14.476 --> 00:14:21.324 To ask how law may forgive is not to deny the fact of wrongdoing. 00:14:21.348 --> 00:14:24.547 Rather, it's to widen the lens, 00:14:24.571 --> 00:14:27.962 to enable glimpses of the larger patterns 00:14:27.986 --> 00:14:31.878 and to enable new choices that can go forward 00:14:31.902 --> 00:14:34.433 if we can wipe the slate clean. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:34.944 --> 00:14:36.196 Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:36.685 --> 00:14:40.337 (Applause)