WEBVTT 00:00:00.951 --> 00:00:04.457 Chris Anderson: Perhaps we could start by just telling us about your country. 00:00:04.457 --> 00:00:08.326 It's three dots there on the globe. Those dots are pretty huge. 00:00:08.326 --> 00:00:11.019 I think each one is about the size of California. 00:00:11.019 --> 00:00:12.900 Tell us about Kiribati. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:17.404 Anote Tong: Well, let me first begin by saying how deeply grateful I am 00:00:17.404 --> 00:00:21.560 for this opportunity to share my story with people who do care. 00:00:21.560 --> 00:00:26.941 I think I've been sharing my story with a lot of people who don't care too much. 00:00:26.941 --> 00:00:31.219 But Kiribati is comprised of three groups of islands: 00:00:31.219 --> 00:00:36.792 the Gilbert Group on the west, we have the Phoenix Islands in the middle, 00:00:36.792 --> 00:00:41.668 and the Line Islands in the east, 00:00:41.668 --> 00:00:44.036 and quite frankly, Kiribati is perhaps the only country 00:00:44.036 --> 00:00:46.939 that is actually in the four corners of the world, 00:00:46.939 --> 00:00:49.818 because we are in the Northern Hemisphere, in the Southern Hemisphere, 00:00:49.818 --> 00:00:53.213 but also in the east and the west of the International Dateline. 00:00:53.213 --> 00:00:59.993 These islands are entirely made up of coral atolls, 00:00:59.993 --> 00:01:04.860 and on average about two meters above sea level. 00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:07.229 And so this is what we have, 00:01:07.229 --> 00:01:13.219 usually, then, not more than two kilometers in width. 00:01:13.219 --> 00:01:16.145 And so, in many occasions, I've been asked by people, 00:01:16.145 --> 00:01:18.304 "You know, you're suffering, why don't you move back?" 00:01:18.304 --> 00:01:19.976 They don't understand. 00:01:19.976 --> 00:01:23.691 They have no concept of what it is that's involved. 00:01:23.691 --> 00:01:27.290 With the rising sea, they say, "Well, you can move back." 00:01:27.290 --> 00:01:29.240 And so this is what I tell them. 00:01:29.240 --> 00:01:33.257 If we move back, and we will fall off on the other side of the ocean. Okay? 00:01:33.257 --> 00:01:38.040 But these are the kinds of issues that people don't understand. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.336 CA: So certainly this is just a picture of fragility there. 00:01:42.336 --> 00:01:44.844 When was it that you yourself realized 00:01:44.844 --> 00:01:48.466 that there might be impending peril for your country? NOTE Paragraph 00:01:48.466 --> 00:01:51.554 AT: Well, the story of climate change has been one that has been going on 00:01:51.554 --> 00:01:53.620 for quite a number of decades, 00:01:53.620 --> 00:01:58.194 and when I came into office in 2003, 00:01:58.194 --> 00:02:02.490 I began talking about climate change at the United Nations General Assembly, 00:02:02.490 --> 00:02:05.259 but not with so much passion, 00:02:05.259 --> 00:02:08.886 because then there was still this controversy among the scientists 00:02:08.886 --> 00:02:13.530 whether it was human-induced, whether it was real or it wasn't. 00:02:13.530 --> 00:02:20.333 But I think that that debate was fairly much concluded in 2007 00:02:20.333 --> 00:02:26.161 with the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC, 00:02:26.161 --> 00:02:32.793 which made a categorical statement that it is real, it's human-induced, 00:02:32.793 --> 00:02:36.740 and it's predicting some very, very serious scenarios 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:39.387 for countries like mine. 00:02:39.387 --> 00:02:42.614 And so that's when I got very serious. 00:02:42.614 --> 00:02:46.581 In the past, I talked about it. 00:02:46.581 --> 00:02:48.457 We were worried. 00:02:48.457 --> 00:02:51.615 But when the scenarios, the predictions came in 2007, 00:02:51.615 --> 00:02:53.960 it became a real issue for us. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:59.602 CA: Now, those predictions are that, I think, that by 2100, 00:02:59.602 --> 00:03:02.394 sea levels are forecast to rise perhaps three feet. 00:03:02.394 --> 00:03:04.869 There's scenarios where it's higher than that, for sure, 00:03:04.869 --> 00:03:08.143 but what would you say to a skeptic who said, "What's three feet? 00:03:08.143 --> 00:03:10.651 You're on average six feet above sea level. 00:03:10.651 --> 00:03:12.392 What's the problem?" NOTE Paragraph 00:03:12.392 --> 00:03:14.682 AT: Well, I think it's got to be understood 00:03:14.682 --> 00:03:16.586 that the marginal rise in sea level 00:03:16.586 --> 00:03:19.140 would mean a loss of a lot of land, 00:03:19.140 --> 00:03:22.251 because much of the land is low. 00:03:22.251 --> 00:03:27.174 And quite apart from that, we are getting the swells at the moment. 00:03:27.174 --> 00:03:29.472 So it's not about getting two feet. 00:03:29.472 --> 00:03:32.584 I think what many people do not understand 00:03:32.584 --> 00:03:38.296 is they think climate change is something that is happening in the future. 00:03:38.296 --> 00:03:41.654 Well, we're at the very bottom end of the spectrum. 00:03:41.654 --> 00:03:43.279 It's already with us. 00:03:43.279 --> 00:03:46.762 We have communities who already have been dislocated. 00:03:46.762 --> 00:03:50.477 They have had to move, and every parliament session, 00:03:50.477 --> 00:03:52.892 I'm getting complaints from different communities 00:03:52.892 --> 00:03:55.933 asking for assistance to build seawalls, 00:03:55.933 --> 00:03:58.975 to see what we can do about the freshwater lakes 00:03:58.975 --> 00:04:00.986 because it's being destroyed, 00:04:00.986 --> 00:04:03.308 and so in my trips to the different islands, 00:04:03.308 --> 00:04:06.048 I'm seeing evidence of communities 00:04:06.048 --> 00:04:09.995 which are now having to cope with the loss of food crops, 00:04:09.995 --> 00:04:13.269 the contamination of the water lands, 00:04:13.269 --> 00:04:17.518 and I see these communities perhaps leaving, having to relocate, 00:04:17.518 --> 00:04:20.003 within five to 10 years. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:20.003 --> 00:04:23.941 CA: And then, I think the country suffered its first cyclone, 00:04:23.941 --> 00:04:27.517 and this is connected, yes? What happened here? NOTE Paragraph 00:04:27.517 --> 00:04:30.373 AT: Well, we're on the equator, 00:04:30.373 --> 00:04:34.436 and I'm sure many of you understand that when you're on the equator, 00:04:34.436 --> 00:04:37.570 it's supposed to be the doldrums. We're not supposed to get the cyclones. 00:04:37.570 --> 00:04:40.914 We create them, and then we send them either north or south. 00:04:40.914 --> 00:04:42.539 (Laughter) 00:04:42.539 --> 00:04:44.513 But they aren't supposed to come back. 00:04:44.513 --> 00:04:46.928 But for the first time, at the beginning of this year, 00:04:46.928 --> 00:04:50.527 the Cyclone Pam, which destroyed Vanuatu, 00:04:50.527 --> 00:04:54.126 and in the process, the very edges of it actually touched 00:04:54.126 --> 00:04:56.516 our two southernmost islands, 00:04:56.516 --> 00:05:01.926 and all of Tuvalu was underwater when Hurricane Pam struck. 00:05:01.926 --> 00:05:05.641 But for our two southernmost islands, 00:05:05.641 --> 00:05:08.999 we had waves come over half the island, 00:05:08.999 --> 00:05:11.623 and so this has never happened before. 00:05:11.623 --> 00:05:13.527 It's a new experience. 00:05:13.527 --> 00:05:18.333 And I've just come back from my own constituency, 00:05:18.333 --> 00:05:21.793 and I've seen these beautiful trees which have been there for decades, 00:05:21.793 --> 00:05:23.790 they've been totally destroyed. 00:05:23.790 --> 00:05:29.381 So this is what's happening, but when we talk about the rising sea level, 00:05:29.381 --> 00:05:32.502 we think it's something that happens gradually. 00:05:32.502 --> 00:05:35.590 It comes with the winds, it comes with the swells, 00:05:35.590 --> 00:05:37.564 and so they can be magnified, 00:05:37.564 --> 00:05:43.763 but what we are beginning to witness is the change in the weather pattern, 00:05:43.763 --> 00:05:46.503 which is perhaps the more urgent challenge 00:05:46.503 --> 00:05:51.092 that we will face sooner than perhaps the rising sea level. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:51.092 --> 00:05:54.366 CA: So the country is already seeing effects now. 00:05:54.366 --> 00:05:56.618 As you look forward, 00:05:56.618 --> 00:06:00.379 what are your options as a country, as a nation? NOTE Paragraph 00:06:00.379 --> 00:06:03.398 AT: Well, I've been telling this story every year. 00:06:03.398 --> 00:06:05.998 I think I visit a number, I've been traveling the world 00:06:05.998 --> 00:06:09.644 to try and get people to understand. 00:06:09.644 --> 00:06:12.260 We have a plan. We think we have a plan, 00:06:12.260 --> 00:06:14.527 and on one occasion, I think I spoke in Geneva 00:06:14.527 --> 00:06:19.761 and there was a gentleman who was interviewing me 00:06:19.761 --> 00:06:21.531 on something like this, 00:06:21.531 --> 00:06:23.871 and I said, "Yeah, we are looking at floating islands," 00:06:23.871 --> 00:06:25.966 and he thought it was funny, but somebody said, 00:06:25.966 --> 00:06:30.099 "No, this is not funny. These people are looking for solutions." 00:06:30.099 --> 00:06:33.326 And so I have been looking at floating islands. 00:06:33.326 --> 00:06:37.088 The Japanese are interested in building floating islands. 00:06:37.088 --> 00:06:40.153 But we have, as a country, we have made a commitment 00:06:40.153 --> 00:06:43.594 that no matter what happens, we will try as much as possible 00:06:43.594 --> 00:06:48.029 to stay and continue to exist as a nation. 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:49.980 What that will take, 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:53.277 it's going to be something quite significant, 00:06:53.277 --> 00:06:55.320 very, very substantial. 00:06:55.320 --> 00:06:57.201 Either we live on floating islands, 00:06:57.201 --> 00:07:01.102 or we have to build up the islands to continue to stay out of the water 00:07:01.102 --> 00:07:05.899 as the sea level rises and as the storms get more severe. 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:08.328 But even that, it's going to be very, very difficult 00:07:08.328 --> 00:07:11.184 to get the kind of resourcing that we would need. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:11.184 --> 00:07:15.015 CA: And then the only recourse is some form of forced migration. 00:07:15.015 --> 00:07:17.337 AT: Well, we are also looking at that, 00:07:17.337 --> 00:07:20.239 because in the event that nothing comes forward 00:07:20.239 --> 00:07:22.120 from the international community, 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:26.276 we are preparing, we don't want to be caught like what's happening in Europe. 00:07:26.276 --> 00:07:29.318 Okay? We don't want to mass migrate at some point in time. 00:07:29.318 --> 00:07:32.569 We want to be able to give the people the choice today, 00:07:32.569 --> 00:07:35.796 those who choose and want to do that, to migrate. 00:07:35.796 --> 00:07:41.508 We don't want something to happen that they are forced to migrate 00:07:41.508 --> 00:07:43.900 without having been prepared to do so. 00:07:43.900 --> 00:07:47.313 Of course, our culture is very different, our society is very different, 00:07:47.313 --> 00:07:49.728 and once we migrate into a different environment, 00:07:49.728 --> 00:07:51.515 and a different culture, 00:07:51.515 --> 00:07:53.930 there's a whole lot of adjustments that are required. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:53.930 --> 00:07:57.181 CA: Well, there's forced migration in your country's past, 00:07:57.181 --> 00:08:02.145 and I think just this week, just yesterday or the day before yesterday, 00:08:02.145 --> 00:08:04.463 you visited these people. 00:08:04.463 --> 00:08:06.669 What happened here? What's the story here? NOTE Paragraph 00:08:06.669 --> 00:08:09.107 AT: Yes, and I'm sorry, I think somebody was asking 00:08:09.107 --> 00:08:12.032 why we were sneaking off to visit that place. 00:08:12.032 --> 00:08:16.000 I had a very good reason because we have a community of Kiribati people 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.613 living in that part of the Solomon Islands, 00:08:19.613 --> 00:08:24.001 but these were people who were relocated from the Phoenix Islands, in fact, 00:08:24.001 --> 00:08:27.368 in the 1960s. 00:08:27.368 --> 00:08:30.108 There was serious drought, and the people could not continue to live on the island, 00:08:30.108 --> 00:08:33.451 and so they were moved to live here in the Solomon Islands, 00:08:33.451 --> 00:08:36.656 and so yesterday it was very interesting to meet with these people. 00:08:36.656 --> 00:08:39.174 They didn't know who I was. They had heard of me. 00:08:39.174 --> 00:08:41.704 Some of them later recognized me, 00:08:41.704 --> 00:08:45.327 but I think they were very happy. 00:08:45.327 --> 00:08:49.753 Later they really wanted to have the opportunity to welcome me formally. 00:08:49.753 --> 00:08:53.050 But I think what I saw yesterday was very interesting, 00:08:53.050 --> 00:08:54.954 because here I see our people. 00:08:54.954 --> 00:08:57.113 I spoke in our language, 00:08:57.113 --> 00:09:00.712 and of course they spoke back, they replied, 00:09:00.712 --> 00:09:05.425 but their accent, they are beginning not to be able to speak Kiribati properly. 00:09:05.425 --> 00:09:08.096 I saw them. There was this lady with red teeth. 00:09:08.096 --> 00:09:10.789 She was chewing betel nuts, 00:09:10.789 --> 00:09:14.342 and it's not something we do in Kiribati. We don't chew betel nuts. 00:09:14.342 --> 00:09:21.052 I met also a family who have married the local people here, 00:09:21.052 --> 00:09:23.699 and so this is what is happening. 00:09:23.699 --> 00:09:28.737 As you go into another community, there are bound to be changes. 00:09:28.737 --> 00:09:33.010 There is bound to be a certain loss of identity, 00:09:33.010 --> 00:09:36.655 and this is what we will be looking for in the future 00:09:36.655 --> 00:09:38.977 if and when we do migrate. 00:09:38.977 --> 00:09:41.043 CA: It must have been just an extraordinarily emotional day, 00:09:41.043 --> 00:09:43.992 because of these questions about identity, 00:09:43.992 --> 00:09:50.238 the joy of seeing you and perhaps an emphasized sense of what they had lost. 00:09:50.238 --> 00:09:53.164 And it's very inspiring to hear you say you're going to fight to the end 00:09:53.164 --> 00:09:58.040 to try to preserve the nation in a location. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:58.040 --> 00:09:59.828 AT: This is our wish. 00:09:59.828 --> 00:10:02.358 Nobody wants ever to leave their home, 00:10:02.358 --> 00:10:05.563 and so it's been a very difficult decision for me. 00:10:05.563 --> 00:10:10.531 As a leader, you don't make plans to leave your island, your home, 00:10:10.531 --> 00:10:12.589 and so I've been asked on a number of occasions, 00:10:12.589 --> 00:10:14.447 "So how do you feel?" 00:10:14.447 --> 00:10:17.628 And it doesn't feel good at all. 00:10:17.628 --> 00:10:21.250 It's an emotional thing, and I've tried to live with it, 00:10:21.250 --> 00:10:26.195 and I know that on occasions, I'm accused of not trying to solve the problem 00:10:26.195 --> 00:10:28.192 because I can't solve the problem. 00:10:28.192 --> 00:10:31.025 It's something that's got to be done collectively. 00:10:31.025 --> 00:10:36.905 Climate change is a global phenomenon, and as I've often argued, 00:10:36.905 --> 00:10:41.070 unfortunately, the countries, when we come to the United Nations, 00:10:41.070 --> 00:10:46.094 I was in a meeting with the Pacific Island Forum countries 00:10:46.094 --> 00:10:48.802 where Australia and New Zealand are also members, 00:10:48.802 --> 00:10:50.567 and we had an argument. 00:10:50.567 --> 00:10:53.283 There was a bit of a story in the news, 00:10:53.283 --> 00:10:57.602 because they were arguing that to cut emissions, 00:10:57.602 --> 00:10:59.529 it would be something that they're unable to do, 00:10:59.529 --> 00:11:03.105 because it would affect the industries. 00:11:03.105 --> 00:11:06.727 And so here I was saying, "Okay, I hear you, 00:11:06.727 --> 00:11:08.538 I understand what you're saying, 00:11:08.538 --> 00:11:10.883 but try also to understand what I'm saying, 00:11:10.883 --> 00:11:13.437 because if you do not cut your emissions, 00:11:13.437 --> 00:11:15.666 then our survival is on the line. 00:11:15.666 --> 00:11:19.335 And so it's a matter for you to weigh this, these moral issues. 00:11:19.335 --> 00:11:24.234 It's about industry as opposed to the survival of a people. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:24.234 --> 00:11:26.927 CA: You know, I ask you yesterday what made you angry, 00:11:26.927 --> 00:11:30.201 and you said, "I don't get angry." But then you paused. 00:11:30.201 --> 00:11:32.082 I think this made you angry. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:32.082 --> 00:11:37.005 AT: I'd refer you to my earlier statement at the United Nations. 00:11:37.005 --> 00:11:42.020 I was very angry, very frustrated, and then depressed. 00:11:42.020 --> 00:11:45.572 There was a sense of futility that we are fighting a fight 00:11:45.572 --> 00:11:49.443 that we have no hope of winning. 00:11:49.443 --> 00:11:51.647 I had to change my approach. 00:11:51.647 --> 00:11:53.737 I had to become more reasonable, 00:11:53.737 --> 00:11:56.825 because I thought people would listen to somebody who was rational, 00:11:56.825 --> 00:11:59.524 but I remain radically rational, whatever that is. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:59.524 --> 00:12:01.314 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:12:01.314 --> 00:12:04.901 CA: Now, a core part of your nation's identity is fishing. 00:12:04.901 --> 00:12:08.547 I think you said pretty much everyone is involved in fishing in some way. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:08.547 --> 00:12:11.255 AT: Well, we eat fish every day, every day, 00:12:11.255 --> 00:12:15.388 and I think there is no doubt that our rate of consumption of fish 00:12:15.388 --> 00:12:17.431 is perhaps the highest in the world. 00:12:17.431 --> 00:12:20.449 We don't have a lot of livestock, 00:12:20.449 --> 00:12:22.980 so it's fish that we depend on. 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.417 CA: So you're dependent on fish, both at the local level 00:12:26.417 --> 00:12:29.133 and for the revenues that the country receives 00:12:29.133 --> 00:12:31.711 from the global fishing business for tuna, 00:12:31.711 --> 00:12:36.494 and yet despite that, a few years ago you took a very radical step. 00:12:36.494 --> 00:12:38.351 Can you tell us about that? 00:12:38.351 --> 00:12:41.393 I think something happened right here in the Phoenix Islands. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:41.393 --> 00:12:46.710 AT: Let me give some of the background of what fish means for us. 00:12:46.710 --> 00:12:50.611 We have one of the largest tuna fisheries remaining in the world. 00:12:50.611 --> 00:12:54.767 In the Pacific, I think we own something like 60 percent 00:12:54.767 --> 00:12:56.671 of the remaining tuna fisheries, 00:12:56.671 --> 00:12:59.759 and it remains relatively healthy for some species, but not all. 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:07.343 And Kiribati is one of of the three major tuna resource owners. 00:13:07.343 --> 00:13:11.244 And at the moment, we have been getting 00:13:11.244 --> 00:13:14.169 something like 80 to 90 percent of our revenue 00:13:14.169 --> 00:13:16.723 from access fees, license fees. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:16.723 --> 00:13:20.345 CA: Of your national revenue. AT: National revenue, 00:13:20.345 --> 00:13:22.691 which drives everything that we do 00:13:22.691 --> 00:13:26.731 in governments, hospitals, schools, and what have you. 00:13:26.731 --> 00:13:32.494 But we decided to close this, and it was a very difficult decision. 00:13:32.494 --> 00:13:38.021 I can assure you, politically, locally, it was not easy, 00:13:38.021 --> 00:13:41.991 but I was convinced that we had to do this 00:13:41.991 --> 00:13:46.890 to ensure that the fishery remains sustainable. 00:13:46.890 --> 00:13:49.482 There had been some indications that some of the species, 00:13:49.482 --> 00:13:53.545 in particular the bigeye tuna, was under serious threat. 00:13:53.545 --> 00:13:56.958 The yellowfin was also heavily fished. 00:13:56.958 --> 00:13:58.723 Skipjack remains healthy. 00:13:58.723 --> 00:14:03.111 And so we had to do something like that, and so that was the reason I did that. 00:14:03.111 --> 00:14:07.500 Another reason why I did that 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:12.167 was because I had been asking the international community 00:14:12.167 --> 00:14:16.735 that in order to deal with climate change, in order to fight climate change, 00:14:16.735 --> 00:14:20.470 there has got to be sacrifice, there has got to be commitment. 00:14:20.470 --> 00:14:25.880 So in asking the international community to make a sacrifice, 00:14:25.880 --> 00:14:28.852 I thought we ourselves need to make that sacrifice. 00:14:28.852 --> 00:14:30.640 And so we made the sacrifice. 00:14:30.640 --> 00:14:38.070 And that, forgoing commercial fishing in the Phoenix Islands protected area 00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:40.323 would mean a loss of revenue. 00:14:40.323 --> 00:14:42.588 We are still trying to assess what that loss would be, 00:14:42.588 --> 00:14:47.743 because we actually closed it off at the beginning of this year, 00:14:47.743 --> 00:14:49.972 and so we will see by the end of this year 00:14:49.972 --> 00:14:53.408 what it means in terms of the lost revenue. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:53.408 --> 00:14:55.869 CA: so there's so many things playing into this. 00:14:55.869 --> 00:15:03.024 On the one hand, it may prompt healthier fisheries. 00:15:03.024 --> 00:15:05.287 I mean, how much are you able to move the price up 00:15:05.287 --> 00:15:07.958 that you charge for the remaining areas? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:07.958 --> 00:15:12.601 AT: The negotiations have been very difficult, 00:15:12.601 --> 00:15:16.479 but we have managed to raise the cost of a vessel day. 00:15:16.479 --> 00:15:19.196 For any vessel to come in to fish for a day, 00:15:19.196 --> 00:15:22.632 we have raised the fee from, it was $6,000 and $8,000, 00:15:22.632 --> 00:15:27.369 now to $10,000, $12,000 per vessel day. 00:15:27.369 --> 00:15:30.593 And so there's been that significant increase. 00:15:30.593 --> 00:15:35.171 But at the same time, what's important to note is, 00:15:35.171 --> 00:15:38.952 whereas in the past these fishing boats 00:15:38.952 --> 00:15:43.410 might be fishing in a day and maybe catch 10 tons, 00:15:43.410 --> 00:15:47.310 now they're catching maybe 100 tons because they've become so efficient. 00:15:47.310 --> 00:15:49.888 And so we've got to respond likewise. 00:15:49.888 --> 00:15:53.997 We've got to be very, very careful because the technology has so improved. 00:15:53.997 --> 00:15:59.431 There was a time when the Brazilian fleet moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific. 00:15:59.431 --> 00:16:03.471 They couldn't. They started experimenting if they could, per se. 00:16:03.471 --> 00:16:09.059 But now they've got ways of doing it, and they've become so efficient. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.604 CA: Can you give us just a sense of what it's like in those negotiations, 00:16:11.604 --> 00:16:13.415 because you're up against companies 00:16:13.415 --> 00:16:17.502 that have hundreds of millions of dollars at stake, essentially. 00:16:17.502 --> 00:16:20.079 How do you hold the line? 00:16:20.079 --> 00:16:24.955 Is there any advice you can give to other leaders who are dealing 00:16:24.955 --> 00:16:30.458 with the same companies about how to get the most for your country, 00:16:30.458 --> 00:16:33.082 get the most for the fish? 00:16:33.082 --> 00:16:36.645 What advice would you give? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:36.645 --> 00:16:41.358 AT: Well, I think we focus too often on licensing 00:16:41.358 --> 00:16:44.870 in order to get the rate of return, because what we are getting 00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:49.444 from license fees is about 10 percent of the landed value of the catch 00:16:49.444 --> 00:16:52.602 on the side of the wharf, not in the retail shops. 00:16:52.602 --> 00:16:56.519 And we only get about 10 percent. 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.242 What we have been trying to do over the years 00:16:59.242 --> 00:17:03.213 is actually to increase our participation in the industry, 00:17:03.213 --> 00:17:05.743 in the harvesting, in the processing, 00:17:05.743 --> 00:17:07.694 and eventually hopefully the marketing. 00:17:07.694 --> 00:17:10.921 They're not easy to penetrate, 00:17:10.921 --> 00:17:13.684 but we are working towards that, 00:17:13.684 --> 00:17:16.307 and yes, the answer would be to enhance. 00:17:16.307 --> 00:17:20.580 In order to increase our rate of return, we have to become more involved. 00:17:20.580 --> 00:17:23.761 And so we've started doing that, 00:17:23.761 --> 00:17:28.149 and we have to restructure the industry. 00:17:28.149 --> 00:17:31.446 We've got to tell these people that the world has changed. 00:17:31.446 --> 00:17:33.954 Now we want to produce the fish ourselves. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:33.954 --> 00:17:36.949 CA: And meanwhile, for your local fishermen, 00:17:36.949 --> 00:17:39.108 they are still able to fish, 00:17:39.108 --> 00:17:41.616 but what is business like for them? 00:17:41.616 --> 00:17:44.031 Is it getting harder? Are the waters depleted? 00:17:44.031 --> 00:17:47.003 Or is that being run on a sustainable basis? NOTE Paragraph 00:17:47.003 --> 00:17:49.116 AT: For the artisanal fishery, 00:17:49.116 --> 00:17:52.575 we do not participate in the commercial fishing activity 00:17:52.575 --> 00:17:55.246 except only to supply the domestic market. 00:17:55.246 --> 00:17:58.566 The tuna fishery is really entirely for the foreign market, 00:17:58.566 --> 00:18:03.953 mostly here in the US, Europe, Japan. 00:18:03.953 --> 00:18:09.130 So I am a fisherman, very much, 00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:12.335 and I used to be able to catch yellowfin. 00:18:12.335 --> 00:18:15.376 Now it's very, very rare to be able to catch yellowfin 00:18:15.376 --> 00:18:18.743 because they are being lifted out of the water by the hundreds of tons 00:18:18.743 --> 00:18:22.213 by these sailors. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:22.213 --> 00:18:27.334 CA: So here's a couple of beautiful girls from your country. 00:18:27.334 --> 00:18:30.422 I mean, as you think about their future, 00:18:30.422 --> 00:18:33.232 what message would you have for them 00:18:33.232 --> 00:18:36.459 and what message would you have for the world? NOTE Paragraph 00:18:36.459 --> 00:18:39.074 AT: Well, I've been telling the world that we really have to do something 00:18:39.074 --> 00:18:41.582 about what is happening to the climate, 00:18:41.582 --> 00:18:44.438 because for us, it's about the future of these children. 00:18:44.438 --> 00:18:46.365 I have 12 grandchildren, at least. 00:18:46.365 --> 00:18:48.385 I think I have 12. My wife knows. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:48.385 --> 00:18:50.637 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:18:50.637 --> 00:18:53.679 And I think I have eight children. 00:18:53.679 --> 00:18:55.467 It's about their future. 00:18:55.467 --> 00:18:58.717 Every day I see my grandchildren, about the same age as these young girls, 00:18:58.717 --> 00:19:01.155 and I do wonder, 00:19:01.155 --> 00:19:03.408 and I get angry sometimes, yes I do. 00:19:03.408 --> 00:19:05.497 I wonder what is to become of them. 00:19:05.497 --> 00:19:08.098 And so it's about them 00:19:08.098 --> 00:19:10.907 that we should be telling everybody, 00:19:10.907 --> 00:19:13.183 that it's not about their own national interest, 00:19:13.183 --> 00:19:16.387 because climate change, regrettably, unfortunately, 00:19:16.387 --> 00:19:20.775 is viewed by many countries as a national problem. It's not. 00:19:20.775 --> 00:19:23.701 And this is the argument we got into recently with our partners, 00:19:23.701 --> 00:19:25.582 the Australians and New Zealanders, 00:19:25.582 --> 00:19:28.043 because they said we can't cut any more. 00:19:28.043 --> 00:19:33.407 This is what one of the leaders, the Australian leader, said, 00:19:33.407 --> 00:19:37.075 that we've done our part, we are cutting back. 00:19:37.075 --> 00:19:40.465 I said, what about the rest? Why don't you keep it? 00:19:40.465 --> 00:19:43.066 If you could keep the rest of your emissions 00:19:43.066 --> 00:19:46.943 within your boundaries, within your borders, we'd have no question. 00:19:46.943 --> 00:19:49.404 You can go ahead as much as you like. 00:19:49.404 --> 00:19:51.378 But unfortunately, you're sending it our way, 00:19:51.378 --> 00:19:53.491 and it's affecting the future of our children, 00:19:53.491 --> 00:19:58.924 and so surely I think that is the heart of the problem of climate change today. 00:19:58.924 --> 00:20:01.548 We will be meeting in Paris at the end of this year, 00:20:01.548 --> 00:20:05.727 but until we can think of this as a global phenomenon, 00:20:05.727 --> 00:20:09.280 because we create it, individually, as nations, 00:20:09.280 --> 00:20:11.161 but it affects everybody else, 00:20:11.161 --> 00:20:14.217 and yet, we refuse to do anything about it, 00:20:14.217 --> 00:20:17.282 and we deal with it as a national problem, 00:20:17.282 --> 00:20:19.302 which it is not. It is a global issue, 00:20:19.302 --> 00:20:22.901 and it's got to be dealt with collectively. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:22.901 --> 00:20:26.546 CA: People are incredibly bad at responding to graphs 00:20:26.546 --> 00:20:31.027 and numbers, and we shut our minds to it. 00:20:31.027 --> 00:20:37.621 Somehow, to people, we're slightly better at responding to that sometimes. 00:20:37.621 --> 00:20:41.017 And it seems like it's very possible that your nation, despite, 00:20:41.017 --> 00:20:44.886 well actually because of the intense problems you face, 00:20:44.886 --> 00:20:49.878 you may yet be the warning light to the world that shines most visibly, 00:20:49.878 --> 00:20:51.921 most powerfully. 00:20:51.921 --> 00:20:54.777 I just want to thank you, I'm sure, on behalf of all of us, actually, 00:20:54.777 --> 00:20:57.354 for your extraordinary leadership and for being here. 00:20:57.354 --> 00:20:59.258 Mr. President, thank you. AT: Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:59.258 --> 00:21:02.120 (Applause)