0:00:00.951,0:00:04.457
Chris Anderson: Perhaps we could start[br]by just telling us about your country.

0:00:04.457,0:00:08.326
It's three dots there on the globe.[br]Those dots are pretty huge.

0:00:08.326,0:00:11.019
I think each one is about[br]the size of California.

0:00:11.019,0:00:12.900
Tell us about Kiribati.

0:00:12.900,0:00:17.404
Anote Tong: Well, let me first begin[br]by saying how deeply grateful I am

0:00:17.404,0:00:21.560
for this opportunity to share my story[br]with people who do care.

0:00:21.560,0:00:26.941
I think I've been sharing my story with[br]a lot of people who don't care too much.

0:00:26.941,0:00:31.219
But Kiribati is comprised[br]of three groups of islands:

0:00:31.219,0:00:36.792
the Gilbert Group on the west,[br]we have the Phoenix Islands in the middle,

0:00:36.792,0:00:41.668
and the Line Islands in the east,

0:00:41.668,0:00:44.036
and quite frankly, Kiribati[br]is perhaps the only country

0:00:44.036,0:00:46.939
that is actually[br]in the four corners of the world,

0:00:46.939,0:00:49.818
because we are in the Northern Hemisphere,[br]in the Southern Hemisphere,

0:00:49.818,0:00:53.213
but also in the east and the west[br]of the International Dateline.

0:00:53.213,0:00:59.993
These islands are entirely[br]made up of coral atolls,

0:00:59.993,0:01:04.860
and on average about[br]two meters above sea level.

0:01:04.860,0:01:07.229
And so this is what we have,

0:01:07.229,0:01:13.219
usually, then, not more[br]than two kilometers in width.

0:01:13.219,0:01:16.145
And so, in many occasions,[br]I've been asked by people,

0:01:16.145,0:01:18.304
"You know, you're suffering,[br]why don't you move back?"

0:01:18.304,0:01:19.976
They don't understand.

0:01:19.976,0:01:23.691
They have no concept[br]of what it is that's involved.

0:01:23.691,0:01:27.290
With the rising sea, they say,[br]"Well, you can move back."

0:01:27.290,0:01:29.240
And so this is what I tell them.

0:01:29.240,0:01:33.257
If we move back, and we will fall off[br]on the other side of the ocean. Okay?

0:01:33.257,0:01:38.040
But these are the kinds of issues[br]that people don't understand.

0:01:38.040,0:01:42.336
CA: So certainly this is[br]just a picture of fragility there.

0:01:42.336,0:01:44.844
When was it that you yourself realized

0:01:44.844,0:01:48.466
that there might be[br]impending peril for your country?

0:01:48.466,0:01:51.554
AT: Well, the story of climate change[br]has been one that has been going on

0:01:51.554,0:01:53.620
for quite a number of decades,

0:01:53.620,0:01:58.194
and when I came into office in 2003,

0:01:58.194,0:02:02.490
I began talking about climate change[br]at the United Nations General Assembly,

0:02:02.490,0:02:05.259
but not with so much passion,

0:02:05.259,0:02:08.886
because then there was still[br]this controversy among the scientists

0:02:08.886,0:02:13.530
whether it was human-induced,[br]whether it was real or it wasn't.

0:02:13.530,0:02:20.333
But I think that that debate[br]was fairly much concluded in 2007

0:02:20.333,0:02:26.161
with the Fourth Assessment[br]Report of the IPCC,

0:02:26.161,0:02:32.793
which made a categorical statement[br]that it is real, it's human-induced,

0:02:32.793,0:02:36.740
and it's predicting some very,[br]very serious scenarios

0:02:36.740,0:02:39.387
for countries like mine.

0:02:39.387,0:02:42.614
And so that's when I got very serious.

0:02:42.614,0:02:46.581
In the past, I talked about it.

0:02:46.581,0:02:48.457
We were worried.

0:02:48.457,0:02:51.615
But when the scenarios,[br]the predictions came in 2007,

0:02:51.615,0:02:53.960
it became a real issue for us.

0:02:53.960,0:02:59.602
CA: Now, those predictions are that,[br]I think, that by 2100,

0:02:59.602,0:03:02.394
sea levels are forecast to rise[br]perhaps three feet.

0:03:02.394,0:03:04.869
There's scenarios where[br]it's higher than that, for sure,

0:03:04.869,0:03:08.143
but what would you say to a skeptic[br]who said, "What's three feet?

0:03:08.143,0:03:10.651
You're on average six feet[br]above sea level.

0:03:10.651,0:03:12.392
What's the problem?"

0:03:12.392,0:03:14.682
AT: Well, I think it's got[br]to be understood

0:03:14.682,0:03:16.586
that the marginal rise in sea level

0:03:16.586,0:03:19.140
would mean a loss of a lot of land,

0:03:19.140,0:03:22.251
because much of the land is low.

0:03:22.251,0:03:27.174
And quite apart from that,[br]we are getting the swells at the moment.

0:03:27.174,0:03:29.472
So it's not about getting two feet.

0:03:29.472,0:03:32.584
I think what many people do not understand

0:03:32.584,0:03:38.296
is they think climate change is something[br]that is happening in the future.

0:03:38.296,0:03:41.654
Well, we're at the very[br]bottom end of the spectrum.

0:03:41.654,0:03:43.279
It's already with us.

0:03:43.279,0:03:46.762
We have communities who already[br]have been dislocated.

0:03:46.762,0:03:50.477
They have had to move,[br]and every parliament session,

0:03:50.477,0:03:52.892
I'm getting complaints[br]from different communities

0:03:52.892,0:03:55.933
asking for assistance to build seawalls,

0:03:55.933,0:03:58.975
to see what we can do[br]about the freshwater lakes

0:03:58.975,0:04:00.986
because it's being destroyed,

0:04:00.986,0:04:03.308
and so in my trips[br]to the different islands,

0:04:03.308,0:04:06.048
I'm seeing evidence of communities

0:04:06.048,0:04:09.995
which are now having to cope[br]with the loss of food crops,

0:04:09.995,0:04:13.269
the contamination of the water lands,

0:04:13.269,0:04:17.518
and I see these communities[br]perhaps leaving, having to relocate,

0:04:17.518,0:04:20.003
within five to 10 years.

0:04:20.003,0:04:23.941
CA: And then, I think the country[br]suffered its first cyclone,

0:04:23.941,0:04:27.517
and this is connected, yes?[br]What happened here?

0:04:27.517,0:04:30.373
AT: Well, we're on the equator,

0:04:30.373,0:04:34.436
and I'm sure many of you understand[br]that when you're on the equator,

0:04:34.436,0:04:37.570
it's supposed to be the doldrums.[br]We're not supposed to get the cyclones.

0:04:37.570,0:04:40.914
We create them, and then we send them[br]either north or south.

0:04:40.914,0:04:42.539
(Laughter)

0:04:42.539,0:04:44.513
But they aren't supposed to come back.

0:04:44.513,0:04:46.928
But for the first time,[br]at the beginning of this year,

0:04:46.928,0:04:50.527
the Cyclone Pam, which destroyed Vanuatu,

0:04:50.527,0:04:54.126
and in the process, the very[br]edges of it actually touched

0:04:54.126,0:04:56.516
our two southernmost islands,

0:04:56.516,0:05:01.926
and all of Tuvalu was underwater[br]when Hurricane Pam struck.

0:05:01.926,0:05:05.641
But for our two southernmost islands,

0:05:05.641,0:05:08.999
we had waves come over half the island,

0:05:08.999,0:05:11.623
and so this has never happened before.

0:05:11.623,0:05:13.527
It's a new experience.

0:05:13.527,0:05:18.333
And I've just come back[br]from my own constituency,

0:05:18.333,0:05:21.793
and I've seen these beautiful trees[br]which have been there for decades,

0:05:21.793,0:05:23.790
they've been totally destroyed.

0:05:23.790,0:05:29.381
So this is what's happening, but when[br]we talk about the rising sea level,

0:05:29.381,0:05:32.502
we think it's something[br]that happens gradually.

0:05:32.502,0:05:35.590
It comes with the winds,[br]it comes with the swells,

0:05:35.590,0:05:37.564
and so they can be magnified,

0:05:37.564,0:05:43.763
but what we are beginning to witness[br]is the change in the weather pattern,

0:05:43.763,0:05:46.503
which is perhaps the more urgent challenge

0:05:46.503,0:05:51.092
that we will face sooner[br]than perhaps the rising sea level.

0:05:51.092,0:05:54.366
CA: So the country is already[br]seeing effects now.

0:05:54.366,0:05:56.618
As you look forward,

0:05:56.618,0:06:00.379
what are your options[br]as a country, as a nation?

0:06:00.379,0:06:03.398
AT: Well, I've been telling[br]this story every year.

0:06:03.398,0:06:05.998
I think I visit a number,[br]I've been traveling the world

0:06:05.998,0:06:09.644
to try and get people to understand.

0:06:09.644,0:06:12.260
We have a plan. We think we have a plan,

0:06:12.260,0:06:14.527
and on one occasion,[br]I think I spoke in Geneva

0:06:14.527,0:06:19.761
and there was a gentleman[br]who was interviewing me

0:06:19.761,0:06:21.531
on something like this,

0:06:21.531,0:06:23.871
and I said, "Yeah, we are looking[br]at floating islands,"

0:06:23.871,0:06:25.966
and he thought it was funny,[br]but somebody said,

0:06:25.966,0:06:30.099
"No, this is not funny.[br]These people are looking for solutions."

0:06:30.099,0:06:33.326
And so I have been looking[br]at floating islands.

0:06:33.326,0:06:37.088
The Japanese are interested[br]in building floating islands.

0:06:37.088,0:06:40.153
But we have, as a country,[br]we have made a commitment

0:06:40.153,0:06:43.594
that no matter what happens,[br]we will try as much as possible

0:06:43.594,0:06:48.029
to stay and continue[br]to exist as a nation.

0:06:48.029,0:06:49.980
What that will take,

0:06:49.980,0:06:53.277
it's going to be something[br]quite significant,

0:06:53.277,0:06:55.320
very, very substantial.

0:06:55.320,0:06:57.201
Either we live on floating islands,

0:06:57.201,0:07:01.102
or we have to build up the islands[br]to continue to stay out of the water

0:07:01.102,0:07:05.899
as the sea level rises[br]and as the storms get more severe.

0:07:05.899,0:07:08.328
But even that, it's going to be[br]very, very difficult

0:07:08.328,0:07:11.184
to get the kind of resourcing[br]that we would need.

0:07:11.184,0:07:15.015
CA: And then the only recourse[br]is some form of forced migration.

0:07:15.015,0:07:17.337
AT: Well, we are also looking at that,

0:07:17.337,0:07:20.239
because in the event[br]that nothing comes forward

0:07:20.239,0:07:22.120
from the international community,

0:07:22.120,0:07:26.276
we are preparing, we don't want to be[br]caught like what's happening in Europe.

0:07:26.276,0:07:29.318
Okay? We don't want to mass migrate[br]at some point in time.

0:07:29.318,0:07:32.569
We want to be able to give the people[br]the choice today,

0:07:32.569,0:07:35.796
those who choose and want[br]to do that, to migrate.

0:07:35.796,0:07:41.508
We don't want something to happen[br]that they are forced to migrate

0:07:41.508,0:07:43.900
without having been prepared to do so.

0:07:43.900,0:07:47.313
Of course, our culture is very different,[br]our society is very different,

0:07:47.313,0:07:49.728
and once we migrate[br]into a different environment,

0:07:49.728,0:07:51.515
and a different culture,

0:07:51.515,0:07:53.930
there's a whole lot of adjustments[br]that are required.

0:07:53.930,0:07:57.181
CA: Well, there's forced migration[br]in your country's past,

0:07:57.181,0:08:02.145
and I think just this week, just yesterday[br]or the day before yesterday,

0:08:02.145,0:08:04.463
you visited these people.

0:08:04.463,0:08:06.669
What happened here?[br]What's the story here?

0:08:06.669,0:08:09.107
AT: Yes, and I'm sorry,[br]I think somebody was asking

0:08:09.107,0:08:12.032
why we were sneaking off[br]to visit that place.

0:08:12.032,0:08:16.000
I had a very good reason because we have[br]a community of Kiribati people

0:08:16.000,0:08:19.613
living in that part[br]of the Solomon Islands,

0:08:19.613,0:08:24.001
but these were people who were relocated[br]from the Phoenix Islands, in fact,

0:08:24.001,0:08:27.368
in the 1960s.

0:08:27.368,0:08:30.108
There was serious drought, and the people[br]could not continue to live on the island,

0:08:30.108,0:08:33.451
and so they were moved to live here[br]in the Solomon Islands,

0:08:33.451,0:08:36.656
and so yesterday it was very interesting[br]to meet with these people.

0:08:36.656,0:08:39.174
They didn't know who I was.[br]They had heard of me.

0:08:39.174,0:08:41.704
Some of them later recognized me,

0:08:41.704,0:08:45.327
but I think they were very happy.

0:08:45.327,0:08:49.753
Later they really wanted to have[br]the opportunity to welcome me formally.

0:08:49.753,0:08:53.050
But I think what I saw yesterday[br]was very interesting,

0:08:53.050,0:08:54.954
because here I see our people.

0:08:54.954,0:08:57.113
I spoke in our language,

0:08:57.113,0:09:00.712
and of course they spoke back,[br]they replied,

0:09:00.712,0:09:05.425
but their accent, they are beginning[br]not to be able to speak Kiribati properly.

0:09:05.425,0:09:08.096
I saw them. There was[br]this lady with red teeth.

0:09:08.096,0:09:10.789
She was chewing betel nuts,

0:09:10.789,0:09:14.342
and it's not something we do in Kiribati.[br]We don't chew betel nuts.

0:09:14.342,0:09:21.052
I met also a family who have married[br]the local people here,

0:09:21.052,0:09:23.699
and so this is what is happening.

0:09:23.699,0:09:28.737
As you go into another community,[br]there are bound to be changes.

0:09:28.737,0:09:33.010
There is bound to be[br]a certain loss of identity,

0:09:33.010,0:09:36.655
and this is what we will be[br]looking for in the future

0:09:36.655,0:09:38.977
if and when we do migrate.

0:09:38.977,0:09:41.043
CA: It must have been[br]just an extraordinarily emotional day,

0:09:41.043,0:09:43.992
because of these questions about identity,

0:09:43.992,0:09:50.238
the joy of seeing you and perhaps[br]an emphasized sense of what they had lost.

0:09:50.238,0:09:53.164
And it's very inspiring to hear you say[br]you're going to fight to the end

0:09:53.164,0:09:58.040
to try to preserve the nation[br]in a location.

0:09:58.040,0:09:59.828
AT: This is our wish.

0:09:59.828,0:10:02.358
Nobody wants ever to leave their home,

0:10:02.358,0:10:05.563
and so it's been a very[br]difficult decision for me.

0:10:05.563,0:10:10.531
As a leader, you don't make plans[br]to leave your island, your home,

0:10:10.531,0:10:12.589
and so I've been asked[br]on a number of occasions,

0:10:12.589,0:10:14.447
"So how do you feel?"

0:10:14.447,0:10:17.628
And it doesn't feel good at all.

0:10:17.628,0:10:21.250
It's an emotional thing,[br]and I've tried to live with it,

0:10:21.250,0:10:26.195
and I know that on occasions, I'm accused[br]of not trying to solve the problem

0:10:26.195,0:10:28.192
because I can't solve the problem.

0:10:28.192,0:10:31.025
It's something that's got[br]to be done collectively.

0:10:31.025,0:10:36.905
Climate change is a global phenomenon,[br]and as I've often argued,

0:10:36.905,0:10:41.070
unfortunately, the countries,[br]when we come to the United Nations,

0:10:41.070,0:10:46.094
I was in a meeting with[br]the Pacific Island Forum countries

0:10:46.094,0:10:48.802
where Australia and New Zealand[br]are also members,

0:10:48.802,0:10:50.567
and we had an argument.

0:10:50.567,0:10:53.283
There was a bit of a story in the news,

0:10:53.283,0:10:57.602
because they were arguing[br]that to cut emissions,

0:10:57.602,0:10:59.529
it would be something[br]that they're unable to do,

0:10:59.529,0:11:03.105
because it would affect the industries.

0:11:03.105,0:11:06.727
And so here I was saying,[br]"Okay, I hear you,

0:11:06.727,0:11:08.538
I understand what you're saying,

0:11:08.538,0:11:10.883
but try also to understand[br]what I'm saying,

0:11:10.883,0:11:13.437
because if you do not cut your emissions,

0:11:13.437,0:11:15.666
then our survival is on the line.

0:11:15.666,0:11:19.335
And so it's a matter for you[br]to weigh this, these moral issues.

0:11:19.335,0:11:24.234
It's about industry as opposed to[br]the survival of a people.

0:11:24.234,0:11:26.927
CA: You know, I ask you yesterday[br]what made you angry,

0:11:26.927,0:11:30.201
and you said, "I don't get angry."[br]But then you paused.

0:11:30.201,0:11:32.082
I think this made you angry.

0:11:32.082,0:11:37.005
AT: I'd refer you to my earlier[br]statement at the United Nations.

0:11:37.005,0:11:42.020
I was very angry, very frustrated,[br]and then depressed.

0:11:42.020,0:11:45.572
There was a sense of futility[br]that we are fighting a fight

0:11:45.572,0:11:49.443
that we have no hope of winning.

0:11:49.443,0:11:51.647
I had to change my approach.

0:11:51.647,0:11:53.737
I had to become more reasonable,

0:11:53.737,0:11:56.825
because I thought people would listen[br]to somebody who was rational,

0:11:56.825,0:11:59.524
but I remain radically rational,[br]whatever that is.

0:11:59.524,0:12:01.314
(Laughter)

0:12:01.314,0:12:04.901
CA: Now, a core part[br]of your nation's identity is fishing.

0:12:04.901,0:12:08.547
I think you said pretty much everyone[br]is involved in fishing in some way.

0:12:08.547,0:12:11.255
AT: Well, we eat fish[br]every day, every day,

0:12:11.255,0:12:15.388
and I think there is no doubt[br]that our rate of consumption of fish

0:12:15.388,0:12:17.431
is perhaps the highest in the world.

0:12:17.431,0:12:20.449
We don't have a lot of livestock,

0:12:20.449,0:12:22.980
so it's fish that we depend on.

0:12:22.980,0:12:26.417
CA: So you're dependent on fish,[br]both at the local level

0:12:26.417,0:12:29.133
and for the revenues[br]that the country receives

0:12:29.133,0:12:31.711
from the global fishing business for tuna,

0:12:31.711,0:12:36.494
and yet despite that, a few years ago[br]you took a very radical step.

0:12:36.494,0:12:38.351
Can you tell us about that?

0:12:38.351,0:12:41.393
I think something happened[br]right here in the Phoenix Islands.

0:12:41.393,0:12:46.710
AT: Let me give some of the background[br]of what fish means for us.

0:12:46.710,0:12:50.611
We have one of the largest[br]tuna fisheries remaining in the world.

0:12:50.611,0:12:54.767
In the Pacific, I think we own[br]something like 60 percent

0:12:54.767,0:12:56.671
of the remaining tuna fisheries,

0:12:56.671,0:12:59.759
and it remains relatively healthy[br]for some species, but not all.

0:12:59.759,0:13:07.343
And Kiribati is one of of the three[br]major tuna resource owners.

0:13:07.343,0:13:11.244
And at the moment, we have been getting

0:13:11.244,0:13:14.169
something like 80 to 90[br]percent of our revenue

0:13:14.169,0:13:16.723
from access fees, license fees.

0:13:16.723,0:13:20.345
CA: Of your national revenue.[br]AT: National revenue,

0:13:20.345,0:13:22.691
which drives everything that we do

0:13:22.691,0:13:26.731
in governments, hospitals,[br]schools, and what have you.

0:13:26.731,0:13:32.494
But we decided to close this,[br]and it was a very difficult decision.

0:13:32.494,0:13:38.021
I can assure you, politically,[br]locally, it was not easy,

0:13:38.021,0:13:41.991
but I was convinced[br]that we had to do this

0:13:41.991,0:13:46.890
to ensure that the fishery[br]remains sustainable.

0:13:46.890,0:13:49.482
There had been some indications[br]that some of the species,

0:13:49.482,0:13:53.545
in particular the bigeye tuna,[br]was under serious threat.

0:13:53.545,0:13:56.958
The yellowfin was also heavily fished.

0:13:56.958,0:13:58.723
Skipjack remains healthy.

0:13:58.723,0:14:03.111
And so we had to do something like that,[br]and so that was the reason I did that.

0:14:03.111,0:14:07.500
Another reason why I did that

0:14:07.500,0:14:12.167
was because I had been asking[br]the international community

0:14:12.167,0:14:16.735
that in order to deal with climate change,[br]in order to fight climate change,

0:14:16.735,0:14:20.470
there has got to be sacrifice,[br]there has got to be commitment.

0:14:20.470,0:14:25.880
So in asking the international community[br]to make a sacrifice,

0:14:25.880,0:14:28.852
I thought we ourselves[br]need to make that sacrifice.

0:14:28.852,0:14:30.640
And so we made the sacrifice.

0:14:30.640,0:14:38.070
And that, forgoing commercial fishing[br]in the Phoenix Islands protected area

0:14:38.070,0:14:40.323
would mean a loss of revenue.

0:14:40.323,0:14:42.588
We are still trying to assess[br]what that loss would be,

0:14:42.588,0:14:47.743
because we actually closed it off[br]at the beginning of this year,

0:14:47.743,0:14:49.972
and so we will see by the end of this year

0:14:49.972,0:14:53.408
what it means in terms[br]of the lost revenue.

0:14:53.408,0:14:55.869
CA: so there's so many things[br]playing into this.

0:14:55.869,0:15:03.024
On the one hand, it may prompt[br]healthier fisheries.

0:15:03.024,0:15:05.287
I mean, how much are you able[br]to move the price up

0:15:05.287,0:15:07.958
that you charge for the remaining areas?

0:15:07.958,0:15:12.601
AT: The negotiations[br]have been very difficult,

0:15:12.601,0:15:16.479
but we have managed to raise[br]the cost of a vessel day.

0:15:16.479,0:15:19.196
For any vessel to come in[br]to fish for a day,

0:15:19.196,0:15:22.632
we have raised the fee from,[br]it was $6,000 and $8,000,

0:15:22.632,0:15:27.369
now to $10,000, $12,000 per vessel day.

0:15:27.369,0:15:30.593
And so there's been[br]that significant increase.

0:15:30.593,0:15:35.171
But at the same time,[br]what's important to note is,

0:15:35.171,0:15:38.952
whereas in the past these fishing boats

0:15:38.952,0:15:43.410
might be fishing in a day[br]and maybe catch 10 tons,

0:15:43.410,0:15:47.310
now they're catching maybe 100 tons[br]because they've become so efficient.

0:15:47.310,0:15:49.888
And so we've got to respond likewise.

0:15:49.888,0:15:53.997
We've got to be very, very careful[br]because the technology has so improved.

0:15:53.997,0:15:59.431
There was a time when the Brazilian fleet[br]moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

0:15:59.431,0:16:03.471
They couldn't. They started experimenting[br]if they could, per se.

0:16:03.471,0:16:09.059
But now they've got ways of doing it,[br]and they've become so efficient.

0:16:09.059,0:16:11.604
CA: Can you give us just a sense[br]of what it's like in those negotiations,

0:16:11.604,0:16:13.415
because you're up against companies

0:16:13.415,0:16:17.502
that have hundreds of millions[br]of dollars at stake, essentially.

0:16:17.502,0:16:20.079
How do you hold the line?

0:16:20.079,0:16:24.955
Is there any advice you can give[br]to other leaders who are dealing

0:16:24.955,0:16:30.458
with the same companies about how[br]to get the most for your country,

0:16:30.458,0:16:33.082
get the most for the fish?

0:16:33.082,0:16:36.645
What advice would you give?

0:16:36.645,0:16:41.358
AT: Well, I think we focus[br]too often on licensing

0:16:41.358,0:16:44.870
in order to get the rate of return,[br]because what we are getting

0:16:44.870,0:16:49.444
from license fees is about 10 percent[br]of the landed value of the catch

0:16:49.444,0:16:52.602
on the side of the wharf,[br]not in the retail shops.

0:16:52.602,0:16:56.519
And we only get about 10 percent.

0:16:56.519,0:16:59.242
What we have been trying[br]to do over the years

0:16:59.242,0:17:03.213
is actually to increase[br]our participation in the industry,

0:17:03.213,0:17:05.743
in the harvesting, in the processing,

0:17:05.743,0:17:07.694
and eventually hopefully the marketing.

0:17:07.694,0:17:10.921
They're not easy to penetrate,

0:17:10.921,0:17:13.684
but we are working towards that,

0:17:13.684,0:17:16.307
and yes, the answer would be to enhance.

0:17:16.307,0:17:20.580
In order to increase our rate of return,[br]we have to become more involved.

0:17:20.580,0:17:23.761
And so we've started doing that,

0:17:23.761,0:17:28.149
and we have to restructure the industry.

0:17:28.149,0:17:31.446
We've got to tell these people[br]that the world has changed.

0:17:31.446,0:17:33.954
Now we want to produce the fish ourselves.

0:17:33.954,0:17:36.949
CA: And meanwhile,[br]for your local fishermen,

0:17:36.949,0:17:39.108
they are still able to fish,

0:17:39.108,0:17:41.616
but what is business like for them?

0:17:41.616,0:17:44.031
Is it getting harder?[br]Are the waters depleted?

0:17:44.031,0:17:47.003
Or is that being run[br]on a sustainable basis?

0:17:47.003,0:17:49.116
AT: For the artisanal fishery,

0:17:49.116,0:17:52.575
we do not participate[br]in the commercial fishing activity

0:17:52.575,0:17:55.246
except only to supply the domestic market.

0:17:55.246,0:17:58.566
The tuna fishery is really entirely[br]for the foreign market,

0:17:58.566,0:18:03.953
mostly here in the US, Europe, Japan.

0:18:03.953,0:18:09.130
So I am a fisherman, very much,

0:18:09.130,0:18:12.335
and I used to be able to catch yellowfin.

0:18:12.335,0:18:15.376
Now it's very, very rare[br]to be able to catch yellowfin

0:18:15.376,0:18:18.743
because they are being lifted[br]out of the water by the hundreds of tons

0:18:18.743,0:18:22.213
by these sailors.

0:18:22.213,0:18:27.334
CA: So here's a couple[br]of beautiful girls from your country.

0:18:27.334,0:18:30.422
I mean, as you think about their future,

0:18:30.422,0:18:33.232
what message would you have for them

0:18:33.232,0:18:36.459
and what message would you have[br]for the world?

0:18:36.459,0:18:39.074
AT: Well, I've been telling the world[br]that we really have to do something

0:18:39.074,0:18:41.582
about what is happening to the climate,

0:18:41.582,0:18:44.438
because for us, it's about[br]the future of these children.

0:18:44.438,0:18:46.365
I have 12 grandchildren, at least.

0:18:46.365,0:18:48.385
I think I have 12. My wife knows.

0:18:48.385,0:18:50.637
(Laughter)

0:18:50.637,0:18:53.679
And I think I have eight children.

0:18:53.679,0:18:55.467
It's about their future.

0:18:55.467,0:18:58.717
Every day I see my grandchildren,[br]about the same age as these young girls,

0:18:58.717,0:19:01.155
and I do wonder,

0:19:01.155,0:19:03.408
and I get angry sometimes, yes I do.

0:19:03.408,0:19:05.497
I wonder what is to become of them.

0:19:05.497,0:19:08.098
And so it's about them

0:19:08.098,0:19:10.907
that we should be telling everybody,

0:19:10.907,0:19:13.183
that it's not about[br]their own national interest,

0:19:13.183,0:19:16.387
because climate change,[br]regrettably, unfortunately,

0:19:16.387,0:19:20.775
is viewed by many countries[br]as a national problem. It's not.

0:19:20.775,0:19:23.701
And this is the argument we got into[br]recently with our partners,

0:19:23.701,0:19:25.582
the Australians and New Zealanders,

0:19:25.582,0:19:28.043
because they said we can't cut any more.

0:19:28.043,0:19:33.407
This is what one of the leaders,[br]the Australian leader, said,

0:19:33.407,0:19:37.075
that we've done our part,[br]we are cutting back.

0:19:37.075,0:19:40.465
I said, what about the rest?[br]Why don't you keep it?

0:19:40.465,0:19:43.066
If you could keep[br]the rest of your emissions

0:19:43.066,0:19:46.943
within your boundaries, within[br]your borders, we'd have no question.

0:19:46.943,0:19:49.404
You can go ahead as much as you like.

0:19:49.404,0:19:51.378
But unfortunately,[br]you're sending it our way,

0:19:51.378,0:19:53.491
and it's affecting the future[br]of our children,

0:19:53.491,0:19:58.924
and so surely I think that is the heart[br]of the problem of climate change today.

0:19:58.924,0:20:01.548
We will be meeting in Paris[br]at the end of this year,

0:20:01.548,0:20:05.727
but until we can think of this[br]as a global phenomenon,

0:20:05.727,0:20:09.280
because we create it,[br]individually, as nations,

0:20:09.280,0:20:11.161
but it affects everybody else,

0:20:11.161,0:20:14.217
and yet, we refuse to do[br]anything about it,

0:20:14.217,0:20:17.282
and we deal with it as a national problem,

0:20:17.282,0:20:19.302
which it is not. It is a global issue,

0:20:19.302,0:20:22.901
and it's got to be dealt with[br]collectively.

0:20:22.901,0:20:26.546
CA: People are incredibly bad[br]at responding to graphs

0:20:26.546,0:20:31.027
and numbers, and we shut our minds to it.

0:20:31.027,0:20:37.621
Somehow, to people, we're slightly better[br]at responding to that sometimes.

0:20:37.621,0:20:41.017
And it seems like it's very possible[br]that your nation, despite,

0:20:41.017,0:20:44.886
well actually because of[br]the intense problems you face,

0:20:44.886,0:20:49.878
you may yet be the warning light[br]to the world that shines most visibly,

0:20:49.878,0:20:51.921
most powerfully.

0:20:51.921,0:20:54.777
I just want to thank you, I'm sure,[br]on behalf of all of us, actually,

0:20:54.777,0:20:57.354
for your extraordinary leadership[br]and for being here.

0:20:57.354,0:20:59.258
Mr. President, thank you.[br]AT: Thank you.

0:20:59.258,0:21:02.120
(Applause)