0:00:05.351,0:00:06.936 I'm Solveig. 0:00:07.961,0:00:10.115 Here you have my contact info. 0:00:12.555,0:00:18.888 I use Free Software and especially Debian[br]since quite some time now 0:00:19.130,0:00:22.095 and I also contribute to Tails 0:00:22.502,0:00:28.640 so my interests are in privacy… 0:00:44.255,0:00:47.336 No? Yes? Do you hear me? 0:00:53.360,0:00:56.690 I do some non-developer things 0:00:56.690,0:01:03.401 and in Debian I found a way to contribute[br]without coding 0:01:03.881,0:01:07.147 or maintaining packages which is to[br]triage bugs. 0:01:11.703,0:01:14.582 Bug triaging, it helps, 0:01:15.484,0:01:21.999 it's kind of non visible but it helps[br]Debian as a whole 0:01:22.195,0:01:26.907 because maintainers don't always[br]have the time to deal 0:01:26.907,0:01:28.371 with all their bug reports, 0:01:28.614,0:01:31.499 some packages have a lot of[br]bug reports, 0:01:31.824,0:01:35.968 like the kernel or Xorg. 0:01:39.700,0:01:44.822 Also, it's a good way to improve the[br]package quality. 0:01:45.147,0:01:50.306 When some packages have a lot of[br]bugs open against them, 0:01:51.974,0:01:57.051 it can make it harder for the maintainers[br]to know which ones are 0:01:57.051,0:02:03.136 solvable, actionable, and they can get a bit[br]over their head. 0:02:04.483,0:02:10.541 So when you triage bugs, you help[br]everybody have a better experience 0:02:10.541,0:02:11.839 with Debian. 0:02:13.584,0:02:15.694 So, you want to do it. 0:02:17.406,0:02:18.856 First, it's easy. 0:02:19.028,0:02:22.966 You don't need to learn any new tool[br]supposing you already know 0:02:22.966,0:02:25.320 how to read and write e-mail. 0:02:26.552,0:02:32.029 So that's a low threshold to start. 0:02:33.288,0:02:38.290 It's very rewarding, the maintainers are[br]happy when you help them, 0:02:38.290,0:02:41.450 even if you don't touch their packages, 0:02:41.450,0:02:49.433 if you sort their bugs, they'll be happy[br]and the users who submitted them 0:02:49.433,0:02:51.382 will be happy that somebody looked[br]at them 0:02:51.993,0:02:55.613 so it can be very joyful. 0:02:57.526,0:03:03.451 Also, you search random bugs for packages[br]you don't necessarily know, 0:03:04.181,0:03:07.793 so you learn about a lot of software[br]in Debian and 0:03:07.793,0:03:12.069 some of them are really really surprising[br]and you… 0:03:12.759,0:03:16.457 "Wha? What does this do?" and that's kind[br]of fun. 0:03:17.836,0:03:19.868 And of course, it saves kittens. 0:03:25.747,0:03:29.244 On this page, there's a… 0:03:30.710,0:03:36.154 The bug triage page is a howto page[br]I made some years ago, with tips 0:03:36.968,0:03:43.148 and this part, especially, has a list[br]of teams that added themselves 0:03:43.148,0:03:47.170 so that they want you to help[br]sort their bugs. 0:03:48.873,0:03:51.956 Those are the teams I worked with,[br]they're really really nice, 0:03:52.884,0:03:54.270 they don't bite. 0:03:56.546,0:03:59.031 They will let you know if you did an error, 0:03:59.031,0:04:02.603 they will answer your questions,[br]you can work together. 0:04:04.831,0:04:07.763 I don't recommend closing random bugs. 0:04:08.164,0:04:12.840 If you go and touch packages from people[br]you have not warned 0:04:12.840,0:04:17.077 or who are not willing to have somebody[br]touch their bugs, 0:04:17.077,0:04:20.445 you might have backfire. 0:04:22.517,0:04:28.290 To start, I think it's good to go packages[br]that you know people are happy 0:04:28.290,0:04:29.419 if you help with. 0:04:35.230,0:04:38.479 The first tool to triage bugs is UDD. 0:04:39.660,0:04:47.294 I don't know if you've ever tried it,[br]the interface is really great. 0:04:55.801,0:04:57.777 Here, I can show you. 0:05:02.151,0:05:04.112 Here, that's UDD. 0:05:06.546,0:05:08.504 So it's a bit arid like this, but 0:05:13.561,0:05:21.687 it allows you to select many many[br]types of packages, 0:05:23.107,0:05:25.667 we can see that later. 0:05:26.114,0:05:31.595 Then you can choose a team or[br]other criteria 0:05:32.694,0:05:38.021 and when you're happy about[br]your criteria, you search. 0:05:39.403,0:05:45.049 It will give you a list of packages[br]corresponding to your criteria 0:05:46.556,0:05:51.306 and you can select some more info[br]you want listed here. 0:05:53.718,0:05:55.628 So, that's UDD search. 0:06:02.455,0:06:08.505 I usually ignore the bug reports that[br]somebody has searched in the last year. 0:06:11.874,0:06:14.147 Probably somebody else will look at them, 0:06:14.147,0:06:18.005 let's look at those that are lost[br]in the limbos. 0:06:19.225,0:06:23.694 I select wontfix, moreinfo, upstream or[br]unreproducible. 0:06:23.978,0:06:27.593 Those are those that probably you can do[br]something on. 0:06:29.708,0:06:33.774 And then you chose a team, preferably[br]one of those that is listed 0:06:33.774,0:06:35.890 in the page we saw before. 0:06:45.329,0:06:50.247 Once you'll have selected a bug and[br]something to do on it, 0:06:50.247,0:06:52.523 you'll have to document what you do. 0:06:57.072,0:07:00.399 Because you can change many many stuff[br]on the bug, 0:07:00.399,0:07:07.108 you send the commands to[br]control@bugs.debian.org 0:07:07.352,0:07:12.433 but it's always nice to put a small[br]a small sentence, or 2 or 3 0:07:12.433,0:07:17.547 to say what made you conclude that is[br]the right change. 0:07:21.935,0:07:26.161 Also make sure the e-mail where you do[br]the commands is sent 0:07:26.161,0:07:31.811 to everybody interested, because[br]by default it only sends it 0:07:31.811,0:07:35.995 to the maintainer and the submitter[br]in some cases. 0:07:36.889,0:07:39.897 So if other people answered the bug[br]report saying 0:07:39.897,0:07:47.612 "Hey, I have the bug too" or if upstream[br]came by to explain something, 0:07:47.612,0:07:52.811 it's good to see all of those who[br]interacted on the bug report and 0:07:52.811,0:07:55.448 put them all in copy. 0:08:01.225,0:08:08.050 Ideally, people can receive the e-mail,[br]read what you're saying and 0:08:08.050,0:08:11.788 don't have to go back to the bug page[br]to read it again. 0:08:12.716,0:08:19.958 So that you should sum up the thread[br]if it was long and have them know everything. 0:08:28.821,0:08:35.239 If you do massive triage, you should have[br]a few generic messages 0:08:35.239,0:08:40.605 so you keep the messages and just[br]replace the words as needed. 0:08:41.454,0:08:43.531 It saves you a lot of time. 0:08:44.827,0:08:50.519 Also, it allows you to put a lot of[br]nice things in your generic e-mail 0:08:50.519,0:08:53.724 that people are always happy to read[br]without more effort. 0:08:54.608,0:08:58.237 You know, add a little "Thanks for[br]submitting the bug" or 0:08:58.237,0:09:04.339 "That was a very interesting discussion"[br]or something like that. 0:09:06.084,0:09:10.153 Let's keep the positive energy flowing. 0:09:13.001,0:09:17.838 There are many ways to triage. 0:09:18.366,0:09:21.417 One of them is trying to reproduce[br]bug reports. 0:09:22.065,0:09:26.169 In the UDD we saw earlier, if you select[br]'unreproducible' 0:09:26.453,0:09:30.113 Oh no… those that don't have the tag[br]'confirmed', 0:09:30.878,0:09:36.526 these are bugs that one person submitted[br]but nobody knows if they're really 0:09:36.526,0:09:42.217 still up to date or if it's just, somebody[br]submitted it but… 0:09:43.755,0:09:48.158 If it's confirmed, there's more chance[br]that the maintainer will look at them. 0:09:50.344,0:09:54.092 If they're really old, maybe they have been[br]corrected and nobody bothered 0:09:54.092,0:09:55.434 to close the bug. 0:09:57.181,0:10:03.233 If they're new, maybe you should have[br]them too, so see if it's the case. 0:10:04.252,0:10:06.973 If it's the case, you write to this adress 0:10:06.973,0:10:15.755 the 'nnn' is the number of the bug and[br]you add the tag 'confirmed' 0:10:17.455,0:10:22.550 That's how we interact with control@b.d.o 0:10:23.883,0:10:29.825 All the bug tracking is on a e-mail[br]interface 0:10:31.247,0:10:33.764 'found bugnumber versionnumber' 0:10:36.164,0:10:40.102 that's a command that control will[br]recognize, 0:10:40.386,0:10:43.226 you give the bug number and what version[br]you're running. 0:10:44.361,0:10:47.696 You add the tag 'confirmed'. 0:10:48.267,0:10:50.666 Since you found it, you're 2, so it's[br]confirmed. 0:10:51.073,0:10:56.391 And 'thanks', you always have to end[br]your e-mails to control with 'thanks' 0:10:56.391,0:10:59.810 or 'thank you' or whatever variation[br]of it you want. 0:11:00.782,0:11:06.233 The control is a very very polite beast[br]and likes you to be the same. 0:11:07.861,0:11:11.928 If you don't put politeness, it won't work. 0:11:13.383,0:11:16.803 Actually it's to tell them that the commands[br]are done, but 0:11:16.803,0:11:19.969 let's be polite also with machines. 0:11:26.598,0:11:35.176 If the bug was not confirmed, you tried[br]to reproduce it and you couldn't. 0:11:37.450,0:11:44.280 You could add the tag 'unreproducible' or[br]'moreinfo' 0:11:44.598,0:11:49.891 So, depending if you're quite sure that…[br]if you're not the first saying 0:11:49.891,0:11:54.743 "I can't reproduce it" or if you're sure[br]you have exactly the same setup as 0:11:54.743,0:11:56.091 the original submitter, 0:11:56.091,0:11:58.556 then you should put 'unreproducible'. 0:11:59.624,0:12:05.230 If it might be reproducible for other[br]people, but just not you, 0:12:05.230,0:12:10.754 then you should ask 'moreinfo' so that[br]the original submitter gives 0:12:10.754,0:12:12.989 more details on how to reproduce their bug 0:12:15.111,0:12:19.339 And it also requires you to be polite[br]at the end of the command. 0:12:22.634,0:12:25.597 An other very useful thing is to forward[br]them upstream. 0:12:26.369,0:12:30.922 Some upstream follow the Debian bug tracker 0:12:30.922,0:12:32.971 but a lot of them don't. 0:12:35.762,0:12:39.099 Maybe somebody reported the issue in[br]the Debian bug tracker but 0:12:39.099,0:12:40.764 upstream is not aware of it 0:12:41.410,0:12:47.311 and most Debian maintainers are not[br]gonna solve the bug themselves, 0:12:47.595,0:12:50.847 they're more probably gonna wait for it[br]to be corrected upstream, 0:12:50.847,0:12:54.513 so we need the bug to go back to where[br]it will be corrected 0:13:00.853,0:13:07.448 In a lot of cases, it can be because[br]upstream considers it not a bug, 0:13:07.855,0:13:11.135 so won't fix it, so let's say it on the[br]Debian bug too 0:13:14.516,0:13:18.856 or maybe upstream is not aware of[br]the bug so… 0:13:22.935,0:13:27.318 Ok, that's very tiny… 0:13:30.486,0:13:32.109 At least you have all. 0:13:33.491,0:13:38.534 Here you have the command to add[br]the upstream bug tracker number. 0:13:38.901,0:13:43.742 "forwarded bugnumber", you put the URL[br]in the upstream's bug tracker 0:13:45.327,0:13:47.763 and then you say thanks again. 0:13:59.939,0:14:06.579 So that's what I was saying before, you[br]can also report it upstream 0:14:06.783,0:14:09.019 if it hasn't been already. 0:14:14.506,0:14:17.760 Sometimes, the upstream bug tracker[br]is more up to date, 0:14:18.452,0:14:23.327 so in upstream it's fixed, so it's good[br]to let know to the Debian bug tracker 0:14:24.142,0:14:27.106 and add the tag 'fixedupstream' 0:14:28.164,0:14:35.521 and it's good to say in which version[br]so that the maintainer may be 0:14:35.521,0:14:39.053 motivated to update to the new version. 0:14:52.641,0:14:58.090 In lot of cases, the bug reports are tagged[br]'moreinfo', which is 0:14:58.090,0:15:04.884 somebody said "It doesn't work", which,[br]sorry for you, but there's no chance 0:15:04.884,0:15:07.201 it's gonna be fixed with that. 0:15:08.096,0:15:12.727 So in lots of cases, the bug is tagged[br]'moreinfo' to say 0:15:12.727,0:15:16.670 "This bug does not give enough info[br]to be solved" 0:15:19.796,0:15:23.624 Or sometimes, the maintainer[br]packages a new version 0:15:23.624,0:15:26.842 and you think probably the bug is[br]solved, 0:15:27.573,0:15:31.601 and you also need to ask the original[br]submitter if they still have the bug 0:15:33.347,0:15:38.833 Or somebody said "Oh I'm gonna do some[br]test next weekend" and it's 2 years later 0:15:39.819,0:15:44.006 and you're not sure they actually did[br]the test they were saying they would do. 0:15:45.792,0:15:52.042 So, info were asked and it feels like[br]the bug is hanging. 0:15:55.620,0:16:03.945 In those cases, it's helpful, sometimes,[br]to send an e-mail to the person who said 0:16:03.945,0:16:09.586 "I'm gonna do something" or who needs to[br]answer if they still have the bug 0:16:11.091,0:16:15.683 and saying "Hey! that's a gentle ping" 0:16:16.617,0:16:19.544 "You said you would test" or "Can you still[br]reproduce a bug?" 0:16:20.842,0:16:24.866 so that you can update the status of the[br]bug on the bug tracker. 0:16:34.129,0:16:41.375 It's good to wait, like, a good amount of[br]time before bothering people 0:16:41.731,0:16:43.163 about this kind of thing. 0:16:43.852,0:16:48.400 I usually wait one year, like I told you,[br]probably shorter might be good, 0:16:48.684,0:16:53.973 but it's good also not to harass people,[br]they have a life. 0:16:58.237,0:17:03.969 Sometimes, the bugs have been tagged[br]'moreinfo' or 'wontfix' for a long time 0:17:07.673,0:17:17.416 The info is not given, or it's unlikely[br]that somebody else wants 0:17:17.416,0:17:19.938 this 'non-bug' fixed. 0:17:23.267,0:17:26.843 Different teams have different policies[br]but most of them will be happy 0:17:26.843,0:17:30.826 if you close the bugs that nobody is gonna[br]do anything about. 0:17:33.223,0:17:38.669 If the bug was tagged 'moreinfo' more than[br]a year ago and 0:17:38.669,0:17:43.686 nobody answered to give more info, or if[br]a major release came out and 0:17:43.686,0:17:48.889 probably the bug is fixed but the original[br]submitter doesn't answer 0:17:48.889,0:17:54.743 then it's good to close them, in most[br]cases, depending on the team. 0:17:56.603,0:17:58.609 But it's good to ping them before you[br]close 0:17:58.770,0:18:03.967 give them a reasonable amount of time[br]to try to test it again. 0:18:12.614,0:18:14.523 Ok, we don't have the bottom of the page. 0:18:16.345,0:18:18.431 The command to… 0:18:25.547,0:18:36.115 The command to close a bug is to write to[br]-done@control.b.d.o 0:18:38.788,0:18:41.017 Maybe I shouldn't have done that. 0:18:47.085,0:18:54.935 And closing the bugs is kind of one of[br]the most satisfying things to do. 0:18:59.120,0:19:04.729 Sometimes, I speak with my maintainer[br]friends and I say 0:19:04.729,0:19:08.393 "Hey, I closed 25 bugs today" and they're[br]kind of jealous because 0:19:08.466,0:19:11.798 when you have to actually work on the bugs[br]to close them, 0:19:11.798,0:19:14.628 you can rarely fix 25 in one day. 0:19:15.572,0:19:18.873 So it's kind of the perks of doing[br]bug triaging. 0:19:19.523,0:19:26.558 You know, "less bugs on the bug tracker,[br]I'm very efficient today." 0:19:28.229,0:19:32.416 But don't close random stuff, but when[br]you find useless stuff to close, 0:19:32.416,0:19:33.962 it feels good. 0:19:44.084,0:19:44.935 Where am I? 0:19:57.127,0:20:00.340 We missed the last sentence earlier. 0:20:01.318,0:20:06.477 When trying to reproduce a bug, you[br]should pay particularly attention to 0:20:06.477,0:20:07.939 the games team. 0:20:08.297,0:20:14.440 You know, like, people open bug reports[br]against the game team and then 0:20:14.440,0:20:19.599 Oh no, you have to install a bunch of[br]games to try to reproduce bugs, 0:20:20.166,0:20:26.058 you know, but for work, so you install[br]a lot of games and 0:20:26.058,0:20:32.475 you try to see if they're buggy, so that's[br]also another perk of triaging bugs, 0:20:32.719,0:20:36.784 you get to try all the latest games. 0:20:40.476,0:20:44.866 An other thing is when people open a bug[br]and didn't check if there was 0:20:44.866,0:20:46.047 already one open. 0:20:46.893,0:20:51.824 It ends up being 2 reports for the same bug. 0:20:52.765,0:20:59.635 It's good to merge them so that's clearer. 0:21:01.138,0:21:04.915 The 2 bug reports must be on the same[br]package, with the same severity 0:21:04.915,0:21:06.417 and the same state, 0:21:07.106,0:21:11.126 otherwise you can't merge, so you have[br]to send first the commands to do that, 0:21:11.411,0:21:17.388 like I showed before, and at the end you[br]tell the bug tracker to merge. 0:21:23.680,0:21:25.792 So, that we've seen. 0:21:39.649,0:21:41.068 You can… 0:21:51.844,0:21:55.508 Ok, you can't really see the… 0:21:57.413,0:22:05.064 So, I was giving an example of my standard[br]message I paste when I close a bug 0:22:06.004,0:22:09.300 and we don't see the end, but I'm gonna[br]do it from memory, it says 0:22:09.300,0:22:14.380 "Hi! I'm closing this bug, since it was[br]tagged 'moreinfo' for years 0:22:14.380,0:22:20.397 without answer. If you still experience[br]the issue, please feel free to reopen it 0:22:20.397,0:22:24.003 or ask me to do it" because some people[br]don't know how to reopen a bug 0:22:24.213,0:22:25.839 that has been archived. 0:22:28.600,0:22:33.148 So that's a very standard message,[br]no nothing, it's not very long. 0:22:34.092,0:22:42.630 That is good to have a model so that[br]you can just paste, with niceness in it. 0:22:45.344,0:22:47.305 If you're not sure about a bug report, 0:22:47.305,0:22:51.125 you read through it and you're still[br]not sure what to do 0:22:51.360,0:22:54.864 because, let's be clear, I don't always[br]understand what the issue is. 0:22:55.392,0:22:59.005 What you need to understand to triage[br]is what the status of the bug report is. 0:23:00.508,0:23:02.092 I triaged bugs for the kernel. 0:23:03.637,0:23:07.621 I don't understand anything about[br]the kernel, like most human beings 0:23:07.621,0:23:13.424 but, without understanding the bug report,[br]you can understand if somebody asks 0:23:13.424,0:23:15.219 for info and nobody provided it 0:23:15.708,0:23:22.316 or, for example, for the kernel, all the[br]bug reports that were for the nouveau driver 0:23:22.316,0:23:23.668 that is not supported anymore, 0:23:24.074,0:23:28.668 it was possible to close them because[br]nobody cared anymore. 0:23:30.092,0:23:33.223 So you don't necessarily need to understand[br]what the bug is about 0:23:33.223,0:23:35.339 to do something about the bug report 0:23:37.086,0:23:41.303 but sometimes it's a bit more complicated,[br]you're not sure 0:23:41.303,0:23:44.746 just close the bug report, move to the[br]next one 0:23:45.202,0:23:50.439 There's probably an other one that's,[br]you know, low hanging 0:23:50.439,0:23:52.266 take the easy stuff. 0:23:54.136,0:23:59.709 Because if you do something wrong, or[br]if you bother the maintainer to ask 0:23:59.709,0:24:03.371 what should be done, then you're not[br]really helping, 0:24:03.696,0:24:08.326 you might be taking time from them that[br]would be best invested somewhere else. 0:24:12.805,0:24:16.681 Small warning, there are some people who[br]really don't like you touching 0:24:16.926,0:24:18.186 their bug reports. 0:24:19.930,0:24:23.786 I wish you not to encounter them. 0:24:24.275,0:24:33.094 I you do, just either ignore them or ask[br]the maintainers of the package you're triaging 0:24:33.379,0:24:38.539 to step in and help or you can also[br]contact the anti-harassment team. 0:24:40.124,0:24:46.508 But it's very rare and most of Debian[br]people are very nice people 0:24:47.726,0:24:51.549 and they'll be happy to cooperate and[br]discuss with you 0:24:51.994,0:24:57.854 and bug triaging is fun and rewarding[br]and easy. 0:25:01.061,0:25:05.704 Those are the links to the things that[br]are useful to triage. 0:25:06.151,0:25:07.896 The first one is… 0:25:18.951,0:25:22.000 Ok, the first one is bad, I'll correct it. 0:25:24.843,0:25:30.450 The second one is how to triage with[br]all the different commands 0:25:30.450,0:25:32.358 that are useful. 0:25:32.967,0:25:36.908 The third one is server control, 0:25:40.801,0:25:44.502 a reminder of all the different instructions[br]you can send to server control 0:25:44.706,0:25:48.044 which is the way to interact with[br]a bug report. 0:25:48.644,0:25:55.626 The last one is about only closing and[br]you don't interact with control, 0:25:55.960,0:26:01.694 you write to bugnumber-done, so that's[br]a different e-mail destination. 0:26:07.190,0:26:14.059 So, the idea was to have a workshop,[br]so this was the explanation part and now 0:26:14.059,0:26:18.939 let's close some bugs, or sort them,[br]maybe.