9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I'm Solveig. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Here you have my contact info. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I use Free Software and especially Debian[br]since quite some time now 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I also contribute to Tails 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so my interests are in privacy… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 No? Yes? Do you hear me? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I do some non-developer things 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and in Debian I found a way to contribute[br]without coding 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or maintaining packages which is to[br]triage bugs. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Bug triaging, it helps, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's kind of non visible but it helps[br]Debian as a whole 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because maintainers don't always[br]have the time to deal 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with all their bug reports, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 some packages have a lot of[br]bug reports, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like the kernel or Xorg. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also, it's a good way to improve the[br]package quality. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When some packages have a lot of[br]bugs open against them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it can make it harder for the maintainers[br]to know which ones are 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 solvable, actionable, and they can get a bit[br]over their head. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So when you triage bugs, you help[br]everybody have a better experience 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with Debian. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, you want to do it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 First, it's easy. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You don't need to learn any new tool[br]supposing you already know 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 how to read and write e-mail. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So that's a low threshold to start. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's very rewarding, the maintainers are[br]happy when you help them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 even if you don't touch their packages, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you sort their bugs, they'll be happy[br]and the users who submitted them 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 will be happy that somebody looked[br]at them 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so it can be very joyful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also, you search random bugs for packages[br]you don't necessarily know, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so you learn about a lot of software[br]in Debian and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 some of them are really really surprising[br]and you… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Wha? What does this do?" and that's kind[br]of fun. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And of course, it saves kittens. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 On this page, there's a… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The bug triage page is a howto page[br]I made some years ago, with tips 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and this part, especially, has a list[br]of teams that added themselves 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so that they want you to help[br]sort their bugs. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Those are the teams I worked with,[br]they're really really nice, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they don't bite. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They will let you know if you did an error, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they will answer your questions,[br]you can work together. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I don't recommend closing random bugs. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you go and touch packages from people[br]you have not warned 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or who are not willing to have somebody[br]touch their bugs, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you might have backfire. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 To start, I think it's good to go packages[br]that you know people are happy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you help with. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The first tool to triage bugs is UDD. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I don't know if you've ever tried it,[br]the interface is really great. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Here, that's UDD. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So it's a bit arid like this, but 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it allows you to select many many[br]types of packages, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we can see that later. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then you can choose a team or[br]other criteria 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and when you're happy about[br]your criteria, you search. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It will give you a list of packages[br]corresponding to your criteria 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you can select some more info[br]you want listed here. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, that's UDD search. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I usually ignore the bug reports that[br]somebody has searched in the last year. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Probably somebody else will look at them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 let's look at those that are lost[br]in the limbos. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I select wontfix, moreinfo, upstream or[br]unreproducible. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Those are those that probably you can do[br]something on. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And then you chose a team, preferably[br]one of those that is listed 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the page we saw before. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Once you'll have selected a bug and[br]something to do on it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you'll have to document what you do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because you can change many many stuff[br]on the bug, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you send the commands to[br]control@bugs.debian.org 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but it's always nice to put a small[br]a small sentence, or 2 or 3 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to say what made you conclude that is[br]the right change. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also make sure the e-mail where you do[br]the commands is sent 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to everybody interested, because[br]by default it only sends it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to the maintainer and the submitter[br]in some cases. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So if other people answered the bug[br]report saying 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Hey, I have the bug too" or if upstream[br]came by to explain something, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's good to see all of those who[br]interacted on the bug report and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 put them all in copy. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Ideally, people can receive the e-mail,[br]read what you're saying and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 don't have to go back to the bug page[br]to read it again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So that you should sum up the thread[br]if it was long and have them know everything. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you do massive triage, you should have[br]a few generic messages 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so you keep the messages and just[br]replace the words as needed. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It saves you a lot of time. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also, it allows you to put a lot of[br]nice things in your generic e-mail 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that people are always happy to read[br]without more effort. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, add a little "Thanks for[br]submitting the bug" or 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "That was a very interesting discussion"[br]or something like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Let's keep the positive energy flowing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are many ways to triage. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 One of them is trying to reproduce[br]bug reports. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In the UDD we saw earlier, if you select[br]'unreproducible' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Oh no… those that don't have the tag[br]'confirmed', 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 these are bugs that one person submitted[br]but nobody knows if they're really 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 still up to date or if it's just, somebody[br]submitted it but… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If it's confirmed, there's more chance[br]that the maintainer will look at them. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If they're really old, maybe they have been[br]corrected and nobody bothered 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to close the bug. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If they're new, maybe you should have[br]them too, so see if it's the case. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If it's the case, you write to this adress 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the 'nnn' is the number of the bug and[br]you add the tag 'confirmed' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That's how we interact with control@b.d.o 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 All the bug tracking is on a e-mail[br]interface 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 'found bugnumber versionnumber' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's a command that control will[br]recognize, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you give the bug number and what version[br]you're running. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You add the tag 'confirmed'. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Since you found it, you're 2, so it's[br]confirmed. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And 'thanks', you always have to end[br]your e-mails to control with 'thanks' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or 'thank you' or whatever variation[br]of it you want. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The control is a very very polite beast[br]and likes you to be the same. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you don't put politeness, it won't work. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Actually it's to tell them that the commands[br]are done, but 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 let's be polite also with machines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If the bug was not confirmed, you tried[br]to reproduce it and you couldn't. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You could add the tag 'unreproducible' or[br]'moreinfo' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, depending if you're quite sure that…[br]if you're not the first saying 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "I can't reproduce it" or if you're sure[br]you have exactly the same setup as 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the original submitter, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then you should put 'unreproducible'. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If it might be reproducible for other[br]people, but just not you, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then you should ask 'moreinfo' so that[br]the original submitter gives 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more details on how to reproduce their bug 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And it also requires you to be polite[br]at the end of the command. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 An other very useful thing is to forward[br]them upstream. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Some upstream follow the Debian bug tracker 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but a lot of them don't. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Maybe somebody reported the issue in[br]the Debian bug tracker but 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 upstream is not aware of it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and most Debian maintainers are not[br]gonna solve the bug themselves, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they're more probably gonna wait for it[br]to be corrected upstream, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so we need the bug to go back to where[br]it will be corrected 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In a lot of cases, it can be because[br]upstream considers it not a bug, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so won't fix it, so let's say it on the[br]Debian bug too 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or maybe upstream is not aware of[br]the bug so… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Ok, that's very tiny… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 At least you have all. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Here you have the command to add[br]the upstream bug tracker number. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "forwarded bugnumber", you put the URL[br]in the upstream's bug tracker 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and then you say thanks again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So that's what I was saying before, you[br]can also report it upstream 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if it hasn't been already. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sometimes, the upstream bug tracker[br]is more up to date, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so in upstream it's fixed, so it's good[br]to let know to the Debian bug tracker 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and add the tag 'fixedupstream' 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it's good to say in which version[br]so that the maintainer may be 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 motivated to update to the new version. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In lot of cases, the bug reports are tagged[br]'moreinfo', which is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 somebody said "It doesn't work", which,[br]sorry for you, but there's no chance 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's gonna be fixed with that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So in lots of cases, the bug is tagged[br]'moreinfo' to say 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "This bug does not give enough info[br]to be solved" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or sometimes, the maintainer[br]packages a new version 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you think probably the bug is[br]solved, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you also need to ask the original[br]submitter if they still have the bug 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or somebody said "Oh I'm gonna to some[br]fix next weekend" and it's 2 years later 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you're not sure they actually did[br]the test they were saying they would do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, info were asked and it feels like[br]the bug is hanging. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In those cases, it's helpful, sometimes,[br]to send an e-mail to the person who said 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "I'm gonna do something" or who needs to[br]answer if they still have the bug 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and saying "Hey! that's a gentle ping" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "You said you would test" or "Can you still[br]reproduce a bug?" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so that you can update the status of the[br]bug on the bug tracker. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's good to wait, like, a good amount of[br]time before bothering people 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 about this kind of thing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I usually wait one year, like I told you,[br]probably shorter might be good, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but it's good also not to harass people,[br]they have a life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sometimes, the bugs have been tagged[br]'moreinfo' or 'wontfix' for a long time 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The info is not given, or it's unlikely[br]that somebody else wants 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this 'non-bug' fixed. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Different teams have different policies[br]but most of them will be happy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you close the bugs that nobody is gonna[br]do anything about. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If the bug was tagged 'moreinfo' more than[br]a year ago and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nobody answered to give more info, or if[br]a major release came out and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 probably the bug is fixed but the original[br]submitter doesn't answer 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then it's good to close them, in most[br]cases, depending on the team. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But it's good to ping them before you[br]close 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 give them a reasonable amount of time[br]to try to test it again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Ok, we don't have the bottom of the page. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The command to… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The command to close a bug is to write to[br]-done@control.b.d.o 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Maybe I shouldn't have done that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And closing the bugs is kind of one of[br]the most satisfying things to do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sometimes, I speak with my maintainer[br]friends and I say 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Hey, I closed 25 bugs today" and they're[br]kind of jealous because 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when you have to actually work on the bugs[br]to close them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you can rarely fix 25 in one day. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So it's kind of the perks of doing[br]bug triaging. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, less bugs on the bug tracker,[br]I'm very efficient today. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But don't close random stuff, but when[br]you find useless stuff to close, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it feels good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Where am I? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We missed the last sentence earlier. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When trying to reproduce a bug, you[br]should pay particularly attention to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the games team. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, like, people open bug reports[br]against the game team and then 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Oh no, you have to install a bunch of[br]games to try to reproduce bugs, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you know, but for work, so you install[br]a lot of games and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you try to see if they're buggy, so that's[br]also another perk of triaging bugs, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you get to try all the latest games. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 An other thing is when people open a bug[br]and didn't check if there was 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 already one open. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It ends up being 2 reports for the same bug. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's good to merge them so that's clearer. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The 2 bug reports must be on the same[br]package, with the same severity 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and the same state, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 otherwise you can't merge, so you have[br]to send first the commands to do that, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like I showed before, and at the end you[br]tell the bug tracker to merge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, that we've seen. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Ok, you can't really see the… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, I was giving an example of my standard[br]message I paste when I close a bug 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and we don't see the end, but I'm gonna[br]do it from memory, it says 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Hi! I'm closing this bug, since it was[br]tagged 'moreinfo' for years 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 without answer. If you still experience[br]the issue, please feel free to reopen it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or ask me to do it" because some people[br]don't know how to reopen a bug 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that has been archived. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So that's a very standard message,[br]no nothing, it's not very long. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That is good to have a model so that[br]you can just paste, with niceness in it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you're not sure about a bug report, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you read through it and you're still[br]not sure what to do 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because, let's be clear, I don't always[br]understand what the issue is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What you need to understand to triage[br]is what the status of the bug report is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I triaged bugs for the kernel. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I don't understand anything about[br]the kernel, like most human beings 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but, without understanding the bug report,[br]you can understand if somebody asks 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for info and nobody provided it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or, for example, for the kernel, all the[br]bug reports that were for the nouveau driver 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that is not supported anymore, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it was possible to close them because[br]nobody cared anymore. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So you don't necessarily need to understand[br]what the bug is about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to do something about the bug report 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but sometimes it's a bit more complicated,[br]you're not sure 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 just close the bug report, move to the[br]next one 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There's probably an other one that's,[br]you know, low hanging 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 take the easy stuff. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because if you do something wrong, or[br]if you bother the maintainer to ask 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what should be done, then you're not[br]really helping, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you might be taking time from them that[br]would be best invested somewhere else. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Small warning, there are some people who[br]really don't like you touching 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 their bug reports. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I wish you not to encounter them. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I you do, just either ignore them or ask[br]the maintainers of the package you're triaging 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to step in and help or you can also[br]contact the anti-harassment team. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But it's very rare and most of Debian[br]people are very nice people 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and they'll be happy to cooperate and[br]discuss with you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and bug triaging is fun and rewarding[br]and easy. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Those are the links to the things that[br]are useful to triage. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The first one is… 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Ok, the first one is bad, I'll correct it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The second one is how to triage with[br]all the different commands 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that are useful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The third one is server control, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a reminder of all the different instructions[br]you can send to server control 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which is the way to interact with[br]a bug report. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The last one is about only closing and[br]you don't interact with control, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you write to bugnumber-done, so that's[br]a different e-mail destination. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, the idea was to have a workshop,[br]so this was the explanation part and now 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 let's close some bugs, or sort them,[br]maybe.