WEBVTT

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-["Frida" VO] There's nothing worse than the word

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"art appreciation."

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It implies that you're
just there awestruck,

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and whatever you're
being fed, you appreciate.

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Art really is about
discourse and about discussion.

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-["Frida"] Do you have any
ideas what museums could be?

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-Decolonizing museums.

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Like, not having stolen things.

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-If your art is for the public,
then the public should have a

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right to express
their opinions and views.

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-As a young artist, like,
sometimes I see things and,

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like, get so frustrated and
feel like nothing has changed.

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♪♪♪

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-["Frida" VO]
From the very beginning,

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we have been
fighting against sexism,

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racism, and the death
hold that wealthy people

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and wealthy institutions
have on art and culture.

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-40 million dollars, 1-5-0-6.

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-The Guerrilla Girls will
complain about anything that

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pisses them off, and they always
do it in an unexpected way.

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-[Coco VO] What the artist has
to say about things other than

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his or her art has not always
been considered that important

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by the arbiters
of the art world.

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And the Guerrilla Girls were
at the forefront of doing that

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starting in the 1980s.

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-[Frances] The power of the Guerrilla
Girls' work was that whenever I

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looked at their
material, I felt implicated.

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It wasn't somebody else's
problem, it was my problem.

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♪♪♪

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-["Frida"] I'm one of
the founding members of the

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Guerrilla Girls, and I've
been involved in just about

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everything the Guerrilla
Girls have done since 1985.

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I'm kind of a lifer.

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But I am, in my
real life, an artist.

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-["Käthe"] And I'm also a
founder of the Guerrilla Girls

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and also a lifelong
political artist.

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♪elegant orchestral music♪

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In fall of 1984, the Museum of
Modern Art did this exhibition

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– an international survey
of painting and sculpture.

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There were 169
artists in the show,

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and only 17 women, and
very few artists of color.

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And women artists in New
York were really pissed off.

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♪aggressive rock music♪

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-["Frida"] We were educated
to sort of respect all

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the institutions and the people
that were making decisions and

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the people who were
writing art history,

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but it dawned on us that it was
filled with its own biases and

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limitations.

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-["Käthe"] We're marching
in a picket line in front of

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the Museum of Modern Art, and
we realize not one person going

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into the museum cares.

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[music slows to a stop]

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And that was the "aha" moment.

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It was so clear that
there had to be a better way

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to convince people and
make them understand how much

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discrimination there really was
– both racism and sexism –

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in the art world.

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♪moody synth music♪

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-Most of the women who are doing
all the bitching are completely talentless.

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For example, like,
the top women artists,

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you don't hear them making these
embarrassing feminist pleas.

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-["Frida"] The more we
looked at the numbers,

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we realized that there was a
systematic elimination of women

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and artists of color from the
so-called mainstream of the art world.

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-[Guerrilla Girl] What does it
mean that museums are getting

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subsidies and have no
obligations to be ethnically diverse?

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-["Frida"] We thought it
would be really important to

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just state the facts

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and see what people
did with the facts.

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We met at my loft, and we were
just a hodgepodge of artists.

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We called ourselves "the
Guerrilla Girls" because we had

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to become anonymous to
say what was obvious.

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♪♪♪

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Kathë and I came up
with the two first posters.

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The very first poster was this
list of male artists who allowed

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their work to be shown in
galleries that showed fewer than

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10 percent women or none at all.

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-[Kathë VO] When one
worked, we would do another.

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When another worked,
we would do another.

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The facts are a hugely
important part of it.

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But also, we had this
kind of outrageous,

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in-your-face design and crazy
headlines that you couldn't

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totally ignore.

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We passed the hat
around to pay for printing.

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We were sneaking around New
York in the middle of the night

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putting these things up.

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And people saw them
and all hell broke loose.

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♪energizing
electronic music♪

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We mostly did them in
SoHo and the East Village,

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which were the big art
neighborhoods of that time.

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So we put these posters up on
the gallery windows right below

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the name of the gallery.

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♪♪♪

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-["Frida" VO] It was so 
exciting to go out the next day

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and to see a
dialogue being ignited.

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♪♪♪

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I remember a gallery director
came by with her son,

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and he singsong-edly sang,

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"Mommy, why is
your name up there?"

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[laughs]

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-If you look at the art schools,
at least half of them are women.

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So what happens to these women?

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Where do they go?

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But that's not the art
world discriminating,

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that's their choices.

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♪ethereal synth music♪

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-["Frida" VO] The advantages
of being a woman artist:

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Working without
the pressure of success.

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Not having to be
in shows with men.

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Having a relief from the art
world with your four freelance jobs.

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Being reassured
that whatever work you make,

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it will be labeled "feminine."

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Knowing your career might
pick up after you're 80.

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Over the years, about 60 people
were in and out of the group.

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Collaboration was
wonderful when it worked.

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It was painful
when it didn't work.

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We didn't understand
where it would go,

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but we knew that
what we were saying,

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moment to moment,

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was something
that was irrefutable.

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♪♪♪

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-I'm kind of new on the 
scene here but I love it.

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-["Frida"] Well, do you ever
think to count how many women,

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how many artists of color?

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-[woman] Oh, absolutely.
-["Frida"] Yeah.

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And does that change
your attitude or your idea?

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-[woman] It has a
lot, and the idea,

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I think that's
why maybe my

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mother and grandmother were
never really that interested.

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Because they didn't see anything
that was done by people that

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looked like them.

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♪sparse ethereal music♪

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-["Frida" VO] I always
felt distance from the

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socioeconomics in the art world.

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I grew up in Pittsburgh
in a working-class family.

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There was a lot of trauma in
my family with parents dying

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and getting sick, and I
had a lot to take care of,

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so I really never felt
the freedom to rebel

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in my adolescence.

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-["Käthe" VO] I grew
up in New York City.

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I was an activist in my teens,

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and I got kicked out of college
for being in a demonstration,

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and that kind of
pushing the envelope

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has always been my life, and
it's always been the kind of art

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I do.

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♪♪♪

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-["Frida"] I was always
uncomfortable with this idea

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that there was a
level playing field,

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because it was not my experience
in life or in the art world.

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So the minute I felt
the freedom to criticize it,

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it was wonderful, it was great,
it opened up a whole part of my brain.

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♪quirky upbeat music♪

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-["Käthe"] I couldn't stop.

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I can't explain why,
but I couldn't stop.

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And it became as important to
me as anything else I did in my life.

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♪♪♪

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-["Käthe"] Those of us who
were unfairly left out of

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the system, it was like
a breath of fresh air.

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It was so-- it seemed
daring, it seemed exciting,

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and the people on the
posters were really pissed off.

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-[Guerrilla Girl] They now feel
they have to contend with us as

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a power.

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And it's very bizarre to be at a
point where I get more respect

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with a gorilla mask on
than I get with it off.

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♪energetic percussion♪

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-[Frances VO] In 2006, we
had, at The Tate Modern,

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a small room with a group of
the Guerrilla Girls' posters.

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But I was put on the back foot
by journalists grilling me about

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precisely what the Guerrilla
Girls were charging us with –

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lack of representation
of women artists,

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lack of diversity –

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and I had no way
of responding.

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My inability to respond was
published in The Guardian.

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I felt profoundly
exposed, profoundly embarrassed.

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And in that moment, the
Guerrilla Girls' wonderful pink

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letter really resonated with me
-- that idea that I had agency

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in this and I had to
take some responsibility.

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-["Frida" VO]
[echoing] Dearest art collector,

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it has come to our
attention that your collection,

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like most, does not
contain enough art by women.

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We know that you feel
terrible about this

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and will rectify the
situation immediately.

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All our love, Guerrilla Girls.

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-[Frances VO] About a year later, I took over
the leadership of building the

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international collection,
and I presented a strategy to

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massively broaden the
diversity of the collection,

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and to really address the
representation of women.

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That moment with the
Guerrilla Girls was profoundly influential.

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♪♪♪

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-["Frida" VO] There are
wonderful individuals on the

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inside trying to change things.

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But there is a
corporate, capitalist,

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institutional structure that's
connected to much larger forces.

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-["Zubeida"] Right now, art
institutions do not get enough

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government funding, and so
they're reliant on individuals

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to donate to them to make
art exhibitions happen.

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A lot of the people are very
wealthy individuals for whom art

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is an investment asset, and so
they will support exhibitions

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that raise the value of
their art collection.

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I feel like in
any other industry,

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that would be considered
insider trading or something,

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but it's not.

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-["Frida" VO] [echoing]
Guerrilla Girls' Code of Ethics

00:11:45.660 --> 00:11:47.497
for Art Museums:

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Thou shalt not give more than
three retrospectives to any

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artist whose dealer is the
brother of the chief curator.

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Thou shalt provide lavish
funerals for women and artists

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of color, who thou planneth to
exhibit only after their death.

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-[Käthe VO] We did a whole
series of these posters.

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After many years, we thought it
would be great to do an updated

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version and build
the actual monument

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and drag it around to every
museum we could possibly get to.

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-["Frida" VO] [echoing] Thou
shalt honor all thine employees,

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never undermine
their efforts to unionize,

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and pay them a living wage.

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Thou shalt banish board members
who make the world a worse place.

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If thou exhibiteth
super-expensive art bought at

00:12:42.443 --> 00:12:46.500
super-fancy galleries and
donated by super-rich collectors

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for super-big tax deductions,
thou must renameth thyself

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The Museum of
Super-Rich People's Art.

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-[Käthe] Everybody,
this is a monument we think

00:13:00.540 --> 00:13:03.360
needs to be outside
every single museum.

00:13:03.913 --> 00:13:05.840
So who wants to talk?

00:13:06.729 --> 00:13:08.760
-The public has
no say whatsoever;

00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:10.620
they just go and
look at the art.

00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:14.160
What these museums are doing is
they've basically turned it into

00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:15.200
a business.

00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:19.381
-[Käthe] You are now
an honorary Guerrilla Girl.

00:13:19.381 --> 00:13:20.507
-[man] Oh, really?
-[Käthe] Yes.

00:13:20.507 --> 00:13:21.060
-Thank you.

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-Now, I think, in a lot
of these institutions,

00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:27.240
they've, like, clung onto the
fact that it's trendy to be,

00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.380
like, putting art out there that
is promoting social justice,

00:13:31.380 --> 00:13:33.300
but when you look at what
they're actually doing in

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practice, it doesn't
support those ideals.

00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:36.660
-["Frida"] Oh, I agree.

00:13:36.660 --> 00:13:40.343
We think that trustees should
be chosen who make the world a

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better place.

00:13:43.260 --> 00:13:45.060
What did you see in
the museum today?

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-Oh, we didn't go in.
-We are yet to go in.

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-We came to meet you first.
-["Frida"] [gasps]

00:13:47.533 --> 00:13:48.868
-Yeah.
-["Frida"] Oh, that's so great!

00:13:48.868 --> 00:13:49.752
-[woman] Yeah, we saw
it on your Instagram!

00:13:49.752 --> 00:13:50.765
-["Frida"]
Thank you so much!

00:13:50.876 --> 00:13:53.040
-I consider my
art Guerrilla art.

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Well, like, I, like, put a
poster up in my city in India

00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:57.180
and stuff like that
about mental health.

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-["Frida"] That's wonderful!
-["Käthe"] Fantastic.

00:13:59.151 --> 00:13:59.608
-This is great.
Oh my gosh.

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-[woman] Thank you,
thank you so much!

00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:03.888
-I took, like, 15.
-Aw, thank you.

00:14:03.888 --> 00:14:05.940
-["Käthe"] We've been so
lucky that people all over the

00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:07.693
world want our work.

00:14:07.693 --> 00:14:12.000
♪ambient
oscillating synths♪

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:13.500
-["Zubeida" VO] The
Guerrilla Girls' work has always

00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:14.820
been statistics.

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People don't believe you unless
you show them the numbers.

00:14:17.616 --> 00:14:23.340
♪♪♪

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Without the numbers, you really
have a false sense of diversity.

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-["Frida" VO] For the
last 20, 25, 30 years,

00:14:32.004 --> 00:14:34.320
we get people saying to us,

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.973
"I never knew this before."

00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:39.878
Our stuff is easy to understand,

00:14:39.878 --> 00:14:42.080
and then you take off with it on your own.

00:14:43.728 --> 00:14:46.045
-I've been teaching
now for almost 30 years.

00:14:46.045 --> 00:14:51.126
I make sure that my students are
aware of the Guerrilla Girls' contributions.

00:14:51.270 --> 00:14:53.448
They get museum
shows in Europe,

00:14:53.448 --> 00:14:55.356
not so much in
the United States.

00:14:55.356 --> 00:14:59.340
I think that that's an
indication of the resistance

00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:03.900
still to the practice and to the
message of the Guerrilla Girls,

00:15:03.900 --> 00:15:06.540
despite the fact that
there are probably, you know,

00:15:06.540 --> 00:15:10.020
200 art history majors writing
papers on them right now.

00:15:11.078 --> 00:15:13.560
-["Zubeida" VO] One of the
most exciting things for me has

00:15:13.560 --> 00:15:17.268
been the shift where the younger
generation are learning about

00:15:17.268 --> 00:15:19.800
the Guerrilla Girls earlier
and earlier -- in high school,

00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:22.020
or they saw the
work on social media.

00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:24.000
It gives me a lot of hope.

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.460
It gives me a lot of hope.

00:15:26.501 --> 00:15:27.600
-["Frida"] Bye-bye!

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.724
And I hope you find things
that you love to look at!

00:15:30.662 --> 00:15:33.780
Can't we think about
art as not being about

00:15:33.780 --> 00:15:37.320
winners, but about something
that we all need in our lives?

00:15:37.334 --> 00:15:40.044
Thank you so much, and good
luck with your own work!

00:15:40.044 --> 00:15:41.501
-[man] This is a big
moment in my life!

00:15:41.501 --> 00:15:42.712
Yay!

00:15:42.712 --> 00:15:45.240
-["Frida"] There are so
many cultural traditions where

00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.985
art is collective, and
it's done in a community,

00:15:48.985 --> 00:15:50.700
and artists work together.

00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:52.633
They might do individual work,

00:15:52.633 --> 00:15:57.360
but they somehow present a
kinder idea of what it means

00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.680
to have a creative life.

00:15:58.680 --> 00:16:03.861
♪♪♪

00:16:03.861 --> 00:16:05.686
["Käthe"] Come over!

00:16:15.233 --> 00:16:24.780
♪ ethereal ambient music ♪