[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.84,0:00:03.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(piano music)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.77,0:00:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, I could share another\Nstory of a lay person
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.71,0:00:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I guided also some years\Nago in a different country.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.30,0:00:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was this married woman who was
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.22,0:00:39.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that country she was a foreigner.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.74,0:00:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And she was going through,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.52,0:00:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she was this very, very spiritual,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.61,0:00:49.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very devoted person,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.82,0:00:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also very committed to her faith.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.22,0:01:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She had many times she had difficult,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.44,0:01:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or she just suffered from deep,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.98,0:01:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's say, feelings of\Ninsecurity and anxiety
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.59,0:01:10.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that somehow had to do\Nwith this whole fact
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.42,0:01:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being a foreigner\Nin that country and of,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.81,0:01:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yeah, having had not few experiences of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.49,0:01:29.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not being fully accepted\Nor integrated or whatever.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.18,0:01:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I remember that she would
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.70,0:01:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many times blame herself
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.30,0:01:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for those feelings maybe of insecurity,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.98,0:01:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes of anger, sometimes of anxiety
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.20,0:01:54.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as something that she was lacking faith
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.38,0:01:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she was lacking hope,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.45,0:02:01.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she should rely more on the Lord,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.22,0:02:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if she did, she would\Nnot have all these feelings
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.45,0:02:09.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all these emotions or all\Nthis anger sometimes, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.15,0:02:16.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there comes what I\Nwould like to refer also
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.91,0:02:20.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and connected with what\NFather Shawn said before.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.70,0:02:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The sense of guilt, I think there,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.11,0:02:29.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's such an important area,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.47,0:02:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I have seen in my own\Nstory and accompanying others,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.54,0:02:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that many times there is a sense of guilt
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.81,0:02:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is put on the level of sin and virtue
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.24,0:02:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or is given a moral weight\Nwhere it actually doesn't.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.19,0:02:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's what with\Nthis particular woman,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.60,0:03:01.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we talked through the situations
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.17,0:03:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where she would have these\Nemotions of anger or of anxiety,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.77,0:03:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they would be connected\Nwith certain situations
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.26,0:03:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which she experienced fear,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.31,0:03:17.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which she experienced a\Nsense of not being respected,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.39,0:03:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then would come the\Nmoral conscience, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.28,0:03:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're a Christian,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.32,0:03:29.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should not have feelings of hatred,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.41,0:03:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you should not.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.29,0:03:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To understand that in\Nthe emotions that arise,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.16,0:03:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is no moral weight.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.94,0:03:43.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where the moral conscience comes in is
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.40,0:03:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what do I do with these emotions?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.31,0:03:48.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do I nourish them?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.88,0:03:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah.\N- Do I give myself
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.61,0:03:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reason to condemn the other person?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.52,0:04:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in the fact of\Nexperiencing all of that,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.87,0:04:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is no moral guilt.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.41,0:04:09.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that I think is so important,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.05,0:04:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it illustrates, I think, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.75,0:04:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how important those human sciences are
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.06,0:04:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand how, yeah,\Nhow our emotions work,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.44,0:04:28.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how a psychological guilt can come in
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.72,0:04:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which doesn't have a moral weight
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.96,0:04:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that has to be distinguished.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.76,0:04:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there I have experienced or seen
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.99,0:04:44.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how it brings an interior\Nfreedom, an interior relief,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.86,0:04:52.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which actually has to do with\Nthe way that we envision God.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.76,0:04:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because if I see God that reproaches me
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.77,0:04:59.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for having these emotions of anger
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.57,0:05:04.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or of having this nervousness or whatever,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.36,0:05:09.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very different than\Nwhen I can see a God
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.72,0:05:14.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually embraces\Nme in all these emotions,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.49,0:05:16.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who understands me.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.53,0:05:18.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As Father Shawn was saying, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.17,0:05:22.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is a God who has embraced our humanity,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.66,0:05:26.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who has embraced also the\Nexperience of rejection,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.63,0:05:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of not being understood.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.55,0:05:33.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there is a very deep connection
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.55,0:05:38.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in how we interpret our\Nown interior emotions,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.05,0:05:47.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also the image of God that we have
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.90,0:05:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how we let God into\Nthat interior world
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.48,0:06:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a redeemer that embraces\Nme or as a hard judge.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.37,0:06:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And sometimes I see that\Nthere is a transition
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.39,0:06:11.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that needs to happen from\Nthat image of a judge
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.12,0:06:14.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually increases\Nthat sense of guilt,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.59,0:06:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that understanding redeemer
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.67,0:06:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is with me, that walks with me,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.56,0:06:26.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that helps me to see the truth,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.45,0:06:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the truth that I am wounded,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.32,0:06:31.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the truth that there is anger in me,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.80,0:06:33.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but\N- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.71,0:06:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But he's there to help me through it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.27,0:06:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And if I could maybe make\None comment about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.69,0:06:49.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It strikes me how much our\Nown experience of humanity
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.88,0:06:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often becomes the image we have of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.89,0:06:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We put that image on him,\Nright, not realizing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.21,0:07:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That I'm feeling rejected\Nor I'm feeling guilty,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.91,0:07:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so then God is somebody who abandons me
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.59,0:07:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or God is somebody who is angry with me.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.10,0:07:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very powerful, very powerful.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.16,0:07:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, exactly.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.65,0:07:13.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So Steve, one of the\Nthings we have noticed
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.01,0:07:19.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,increasing over the last I'd say 10 years
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.37,0:07:24.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been an increase in narcissism.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.29,0:07:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not just within the legion,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.33,0:07:29.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I've been watching articles
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.55,0:07:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are talking about\Nthe church in general
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.30,0:07:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is society in general,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.61,0:07:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that more and more of our young people
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.03,0:07:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are developing narcissistic tendencies
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.75,0:07:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that then create blind spots
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.80,0:07:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for being able to read the\Nfeelings of other people,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.55,0:07:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to actually care about the\Nfeelings of other people,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.91,0:07:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to recognize one's own weaknesses
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.49,0:07:54.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to be able to admit
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.51,0:07:56.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one's own weaknesses and limitations.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.13,0:08:02.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think couple that with\Npossibly the male psychology
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.96,0:08:05.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the preparation for the priesthood,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.67,0:08:06.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes there's a pressure
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.84,0:08:08.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that thinks you can make mistakes,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.50,0:08:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to be always the one leading,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.10,0:08:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the one charging the hill,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.92,0:08:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the one that is not without mistakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.45,0:08:25.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so one of the things\NI think we're learning,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.33,0:08:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or I've been learning at least,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.56,0:08:30.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to tell our younger priests\Nwhen they're coming in is
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.51,0:08:32.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't be afraid to make mistakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.05,0:08:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact give yourself the\Nfreedom to make mistakes,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.83,0:08:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if you don't have that freedom,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.33,0:08:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're gonna create a stress\Nwithin yourself that over time,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.85,0:08:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trauma can come in a one-time experience,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.05,0:08:50.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it can come in a series\Nof little experiences,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.24,0:08:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but something that's sustained,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.68,0:08:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a sustained pressure over time
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.37,0:08:55.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can actually become a traumatic experience
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.22,0:08:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually produces
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.64,0:09:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,results that a person really doesn't want
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.87,0:09:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and can become a disorder\Nif they're not careful,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.30,0:09:05.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or narcissistic disorder.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.59,0:09:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that incapacity to actually recognize
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.11,0:09:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that willingness to say, okay,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.38,0:09:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually I have limitations
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.76,0:09:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I do make mistakes,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.62,0:09:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm okay with my mistakes
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.95,0:09:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they don't define me,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.69,0:09:17.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's hard.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.85,0:09:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, and it's hard when you know
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.19,0:09:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're going to be\Noftentimes in the limelight
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.30,0:09:25.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or you're gonna be in front of people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.30,0:09:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people look to you for guidance.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.22,0:09:28.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's been one of the areas
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.40,0:09:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I see that it's been a challenge
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.32,0:09:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where at times we will\Nhave individuals with much,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.66,0:09:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually have developed\Nnarcissistic disorders.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.63,0:09:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it makes it very difficult\Nfor them to work in team,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.64,0:09:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work with others,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.64,0:09:47.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,okay, because they actually\Nend up hurting people,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.68,0:09:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running people over.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.65,0:09:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even when you bring\Nthings to their attention,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.93,0:09:53.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's always somebody else's fault.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.71,0:09:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's always\N(Stephen laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.38,0:09:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some other reason as to why--
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.92,0:09:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Stephen] Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.88,0:10:01.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- This exists but it's not them.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.01,0:10:05.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so to be able to confront\Nthat and to be able to,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.45,0:10:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the things that has helped
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.32,0:10:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the capacity to have group therapy.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.60,0:10:15.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That has actually been one of\Nthe areas that in real-time
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.29,0:10:20.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being able to have assessments\Nof input from others
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.52,0:10:22.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when at times they have the blind spots
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.91,0:10:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are not allowing for them to see.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.90,0:10:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also just the growth and the humility
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.44,0:10:31.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just says it's okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.47,0:10:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't always have to\Nhave the right answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.18,0:10:37.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can make mistakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.64,0:10:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think one of the things,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.57,0:10:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's a great freedom in that,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.48,0:10:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'cause our Lord is not limited\Nby our limitations, okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.66,0:10:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very important\Nthat we understand that.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.19,0:10:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And something that Lorli said very earlier
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.41,0:10:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is extremely important is
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.86,0:10:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my weaknesses, not even\Nmy sins, define me.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.82,0:11:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.06,0:11:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My relationship with God defines me.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.44,0:11:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So on the other end of the spectrum,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.05,0:11:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not even my gifts and\Nmy talents define me.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.72,0:11:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And very often we can seek our identity
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.74,0:11:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the things we do well.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.13,0:11:15.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can try and hide the weaknesses
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.33,0:11:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that others don't see them,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.65,0:11:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we can sometimes try\Nand hide them from ourselves
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.45,0:11:22.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a cause of shame
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.17,0:11:27.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or just exposing all my limitations.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.96,0:11:29.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the reality is,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.45,0:11:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going back to your very first\Nquestion at the beginning,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.65,0:11:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's the relationship\Nwith God that defines me
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.76,0:11:42.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and precisely the way he sees\Nme and the way he loves me.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.03,0:11:44.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And from there it becomes a freedom.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.30,0:11:45.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you're dealing with a disorder
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.62,0:11:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a narcissistic\Ndisorder as an example,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.42,0:11:53.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's a process of being\Nable to get to that freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.33,0:11:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the capacity to\Ncontrol the environment,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.31,0:11:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to control circumstances, situations
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.36,0:12:00.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so nothing gets out of my control
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.56,0:12:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that I don't have to worry about
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.24,0:12:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people seeing my\Nweaknesses or limitations,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.75,0:12:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that creates its own stress,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.90,0:12:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's the freedom that comes from
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.26,0:12:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being able to say it's\Nokay to have the weaknesses
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.16,0:12:16.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and God's gonna work with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.27,0:12:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we found that both a group therapy
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.30,0:12:22.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and an ongoing therapy\Ncan help an individual
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.23,0:12:25.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both recognize those, be okay with those,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.19,0:12:27.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and open the space for\Na deeper spiritual life.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.89,0:12:33.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- As you're talking,\Nthat's a good illustration,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.51,0:12:35.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just reflecting.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.38,0:12:39.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of us God has given brother priests
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.21,0:12:44.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or sister consecrated to be in a group,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.01,0:12:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a family setting\Nwhere we are who we are
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.54,0:12:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we learn to be accepted\Nand we make our mistakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.62,0:12:52.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was reflecting that some of us
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.77,0:12:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he gives families and wives
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.20,0:12:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be that person who says into your ear,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.52,0:13:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the old Roman generals,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.98,0:13:03.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they used to get a parade in their chariot
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.61,0:13:05.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they came back from their victory,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.01,0:13:05.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they were always assigned
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.84,0:13:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some older wizened male servant
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.93,0:13:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be right there on the\Nchariot in their ear saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.15,0:13:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're just a man, you're not a god.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.91,0:13:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't forget you're not.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.22,0:13:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need that.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.10,0:13:19.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need somebody reminding us
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.65,0:13:22.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our mortality and our limitations.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.13,0:13:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think often living\Nin some community,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.21,0:13:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever that community\Nis that we're called to,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.83,0:13:29.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is part of God's plan for that I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.47,0:13:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so much does he love us, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.73,0:13:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Amen, amen.\N- Yeah, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.27,0:13:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- There's a healing attribute
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.68,0:13:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to doing dishes on a frequent basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.08,0:13:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Stephen and Lorli laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.60,0:13:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Indeed, indeed.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.24,0:13:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So maybe as a closing direction
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.88,0:13:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this beautiful interview
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.23,0:13:50.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've been having here,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.24,0:13:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sharing very freely for our students
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.32,0:13:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they're on their pathway
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.68,0:13:57.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to becoming spiritual directors themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.00,0:13:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or honing their own skills,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.61,0:14:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you could go back in time
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.90,0:14:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say 20 years ago to your younger self,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.36,0:14:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and maybe just in 30 seconds, right,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.02,0:14:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what advice might you\Ngive your younger self
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.60,0:14:14.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around this topic of the\Nvalue of the human sciences
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.99,0:14:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for spiritual direction?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.87,0:14:21.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lorli, would you like to go first?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.70,0:14:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Okay, I can go first, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.15,0:14:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two things.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.27,0:14:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One, I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.67,0:14:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yeah the most important\NI think I would tell myself
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.32,0:14:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure I don't rush\Ninto judgments too fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.50,0:14:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To remember that every\Nperson is a mystery.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.01,0:14:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I see from the person now,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.44,0:14:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from what she has expressed so far,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.16,0:14:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see a little part.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.14,0:14:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And sometimes we can be very fast in,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.63,0:15:02.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's say, making a diagnosis or
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.94,0:15:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interpreting what is happening.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.31,0:15:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course you have\Nto try and interpret,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.78,0:15:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but always knowing there is a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.08,0:15:17.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I don't know about the person.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.13,0:15:21.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there can be so many\Ncircumstantial elements also
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.89,0:15:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that influence the person right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.83,0:15:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the person is complex, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.37,0:15:33.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that on one hand, to give yourself time
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.89,0:15:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to really get to know the person,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.14,0:15:40.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yeah, not to rush judgments
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.17,0:15:41.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are too categorical
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.67,0:15:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or too simplistic actually.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.70,0:15:46.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.54,0:15:49.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also a challenge, yes.\N- Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.01,0:15:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Very good.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.84,0:15:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And the second one would actually be
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.87,0:15:56.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an invitation not to give myself
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.35,0:15:58.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too much importance as a guide.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.67,0:16:02.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The guide of each person is God.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.44,0:16:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.67,0:16:11.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yeah, to make sure I don't give myself
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.25,0:16:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an importance or a role\Nin the life of the guidee
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.16,0:16:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that really I don't have\Nas a spiritual guide.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.35,0:16:26.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think those two things are\Nthe ones that come to mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.69,0:16:30.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Very good, thank you,\Nthank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.14,0:16:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Father Shawn.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.60,0:16:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Well, I have to agree with\NLorli on that one in fact.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.00,0:16:36.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Stephen and Lorli laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.50,0:16:38.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just those exact two.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.95,0:16:41.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is not jumping to the conclusions.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.57,0:16:46.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again I think even\Ncoming into a situation
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.57,0:16:48.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where like, well, clearly\Nthey're doing this
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.32,0:16:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is the reason and it's not,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.74,0:16:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or having especially in the confessional
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.55,0:16:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I get to hear circumstances at times
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.21,0:16:59.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what led to a person to\Nactually have an abortion,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.94,0:17:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's not cut and dry,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.56,0:17:05.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's led individuals to\Npractice birth control,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.73,0:17:10.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and realize, okay, there\Nis more to the situation
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.64,0:17:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than just a black and white answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.28,0:17:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the same will apply to\Nthe psychological at times
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.24,0:17:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's been something\Nthat's happened in the past,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.06,0:17:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's producing things now
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.48,0:17:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the person actually\Ndoesn't have full control over.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.56,0:17:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's extremely important
Dialogue: 0,0:17:30.70,0:17:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first to listen and listen to the story
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.82,0:17:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as opposed to just jump\Nto the conclusions.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.62,0:17:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And second, I can't agree with Lorli more
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.55,0:17:44.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than just from my own mistakes of actually
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.08,0:17:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinking too much depended on myself
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.34,0:17:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or trying to do too much\Nof the whole package
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.92,0:17:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and realizing that's not,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.93,0:17:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one, that's not what our Lord is asking,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.21,0:17:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two, our Lord, I think,\Ngives us limitations
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.35,0:18:02.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we learn how to work in team,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.23,0:18:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including the capacity to let others help.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.96,0:18:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not the sole guide of an individual.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.07,0:18:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just happened to play a part,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.21,0:18:13.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a small part really,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.87,0:18:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the spiritual side,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.88,0:18:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but because of the complexity
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.36,0:18:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the totality of the person,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.34,0:18:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are too many angles\Nto that person that need
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.43,0:18:24.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,help from all those different angles.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.71,0:18:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the last thing,\NI would add one, third one,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.25,0:18:34.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is there is no circumstance
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.29,0:18:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that God can't get into.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:38.26,0:18:42.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no brokenness\Nthat is beyond his remedy
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.40,0:18:47.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use it both for the good of the person
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.32,0:18:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and into his glory.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.10,0:18:51.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's extremely important
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.98,0:18:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that even in the worst of scenarios,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.37,0:18:57.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've seen a few that\Nhave been very difficult,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.07,0:19:01.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that God is present,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.67,0:19:06.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that God, even in that brokenness,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.18,0:19:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is doing something great\Nin helping the person
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.05,0:19:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see that and to trust that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.43,0:19:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,despite what seems to be\Nlike a very dark situation
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.43,0:19:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that with very few options of hope.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.92,0:19:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Wow.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.75,0:19:23.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.59,0:19:26.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Makes a lot of sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.14,0:19:28.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.07,0:19:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with our future spiritual directors.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.00,0:19:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're discerning and\Npreparing for this calling
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.95,0:19:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of helping in that little\Nway that you talk about
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.40,0:19:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help other souls on their\Njourney get closer to God.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.89,0:19:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So thank you so much.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.66,0:19:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Thank you, Steve.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.66,0:19:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Thank you, Steve.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.52,0:19:52.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(piano music)