[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.32,0:00:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're very happy to have digital minister\Nof Taiwan, who's come to our DebConf '18.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.56,0:00:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't even have to tell him what to say,\Nbecause he knows what to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.36,0:00:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.36,0:00:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, everyone, happy to be here.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.12,0:00:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To somewhat compensate the lack of Q&A time\Nin the previous session, we will start with
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.41,0:00:43.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Q&A.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.79,0:00:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have any device connected to the Internet,\Nplease go to this website.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.64,0:00:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called slido.com, S-L-I-D-O.com.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.88,0:00:57.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once you're on this website, you will be asked\Nto enter a number.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.03,0:01:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Without the hash, it's just seven two eight,\Nor today's date.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.26,0:01:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once you enter the three digits, you can press\Njoin or a small, green button.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.14,0:01:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you will be dropped into this anonymous\Nor pseudonymous chat channel.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.89,0:01:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here, feel free to ask me anything, like literally\Nanything.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.86,0:01:20.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you see other people's questions that you\Nwould also like to see me answer, you can
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.81,0:01:22.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just press like.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.86,0:01:29.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The questions with the most number of likes\Nwill float to the top on this projection here.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.17,0:01:36.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the rest of this hour, I guess, the next\N15 minutes, I'll begin with a short introduction,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.58,0:01:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes, about\Nmy work in the Taiwan administration in the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.72,0:01:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public digital innovation space, the PDIS,\Nas we're seeing here.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.43,0:01:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Meanwhile, as I'm talking, feel free to ask\Nme any and all questions, which will show
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.17,0:01:53.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up on the phone here.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.06,0:01:57.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once there's sufficient number of questions,\Nthen I will switch right back to Slido.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.97,0:02:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My current favorite programming language is\Ntext/plain character set UTF-8.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.65,0:02:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] It's one of the most versatile programming\Nlanguage there is.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.45,0:02:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll explore that more in my talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.51,0:02:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sure it's your favorite programming language\Ntoo.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.93,0:02:25.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] Let's get started.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.08,0:02:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unlike many people working on democracy today,\NI'm an optimist when it comes to democracy
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.88,0:02:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and especially Internet democracy.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.54,0:02:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This strange condition began when I was 15\Nyears old.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.87,0:02:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was 1996.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.72,0:02:43.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I discovered that the future of human knowledge\Nand indeed future of democracy is happening
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.72,0:02:48.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the web and my education in school is a\Nlittle out of date.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.07,0:02:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I told my teachers that I found this wonderful\Nconstitutional democracy called Debian -- no,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.51,0:02:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really, I did -- on the Internet, where people\Nuse Condorcet voting methods and these very
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.72,0:03:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,advanced algorithms and policy development\Nprocess and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.50,0:03:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to quit school and begin my education\Non the World Wide Web.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.04,0:03:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Surprisingly, my teachers were very reasonable\Npeople and they all agreed with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.77,0:03:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After that, I just dropped out of high school\Nand started a few web startups and just participated
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.21,0:03:25.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this wonderful community of the Internet\NSociety and the open-source and free software
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.86,0:03:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities to basically see that how people\Ncan at least come to consensus or at least
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.85,0:03:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consent through radical transparency and rough\Nconsensus and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.97,0:03:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today I'm Taiwan's digital minister for a\Nyear-and-a-half now.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.02,0:03:44.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm applying the lessons that I learned when\NI was 15 years old, civic participation, rough
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.46,0:03:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consensus, radical transparency to the representative\Ndemocratic system here.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.09,0:03:59.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Surprisingly, it's working \Nand it's changing, gradually, our society.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.44,0:04:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two years ago, when President Tsai Ing-wen\Nfirst became inaugurated as our president,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.70,0:04:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she said an inspiring statement in her inauguration\Nspeech.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.97,0:04:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She said, "Before, when we think of democracy,\Nwe think about the opposition between two
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.80,0:04:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opposing values.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.80,0:04:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But now, from now on, Taiwan's democracy need\Nto become a conversation between many diverse
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.03,0:04:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,values."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.03,0:04:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The key point here is the plural of this word\N"value."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.02,0:04:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's many values in Taiwan and we're going\Nto build a conversational, deliberative democracy
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.25,0:04:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of those very different but diverse values.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.58,0:04:43.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Indeed, previously, when people think about\Nthe government or the state, or things like
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.21,0:04:47.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, people tend to have this picture, like\Nwe have different departments.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.56,0:04:48.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have different ministries.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.65,0:04:52.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have different council within the parliament,\Nwho talk to, for example, the environmental
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.64,0:04:55.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agency may talk to the environmentalist groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.19,0:05:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The minister of economy may talk to developmental,\Nmore capitalistic groups and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.87,0:05:05.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's different nodes within the government\Nto talk to the different sides of stakeholders.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.27,0:05:10.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People imagined that the government is what\Nbrings people together and who arbitrates
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.91,0:05:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between those conflicting or opposing forces.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.37,0:05:19.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This model of governance, as all of you know,\Nhas become bankrupt within the previous decade
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.65,0:05:24.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or so with the advent of the social web and\Nthe Internet activism.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.97,0:05:31.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason is that people can organize now\Nperfectly fine without a representative organizer
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.53,0:05:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the mainstream media or from the representative\Ndemocracy.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.56,0:05:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, because there's so many emerging issues,\Nwe can't have a different ministry or a different
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.82,0:05:42.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agency for each of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.03,0:05:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the government insists on being still this\Nkind of rope in between, not only is its organizational
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.97,0:05:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,value much lower than before, it would be\Ntorn between so many different interests that
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.38,0:05:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it become paralyzed.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.96,0:05:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The distance between the government and people,\Nwhile not increasing...The distance between
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.54,0:06:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people and people have much shortened.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.14,0:06:06.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It leads to a recession or a distrust to the\Ndemocratic institutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.15,0:06:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way we're working on this is basically\Nreimagine the questions governance systems
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.18,0:06:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.18,0:06:19.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of asking who we need to represent\Nor what is fair arbitration, we ask instead
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.15,0:06:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what is the due process in which that the\Nvarious different stakeholders can find common
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.47,0:06:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,values, and given the common values, can we\Ncome up with solutions that works for everyone,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.95,0:06:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everyone can live with.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.32,0:06:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the idea of civic tech or, basically,\Ntechnology that enables people to listen to
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.27,0:06:39.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one another.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.16,0:06:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This has, basically, a lot of international\Nmetrics measuring this, like the diversity
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.84,0:06:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of gender and participation in the Internet,\Nlike the rank of open data and accessibility,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.93,0:06:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the access to e-participation platforms.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.81,0:07:05.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Since 2015, Taiwan has been consistently ranked\Nnumber one or number two in all of those metrics
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.09,0:07:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worldwide.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.09,0:07:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason is that at the end of 2014, there\Nis a radical U-turn of national direction
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.50,0:07:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by embracing the wisdom of the crowd and open\Ngovernment as the national direction.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.75,0:07:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was catalyzed and epitomized by Occupy\Nmovement back in 2014 where people occupied
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.40,0:07:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the parliament for 22 days in a nonviolent\Ndemonstration.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.44,0:07:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we say demonstration, we mean it in like\Nthe demo day sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.73,0:07:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a demo.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.61,0:07:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the time, the members of the parliament\Nin Taiwan refused to deliberate a cross-strait
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.03,0:07:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,service trade agreement because they think\Nconstitutionally Beijing is part of Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.03,0:07:49.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In any case they refuse to deliberate a statement,\Na treaty.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.87,0:07:55.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People occupied the parliament and did the\NMPs work for them by basically deliberating
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.46,0:07:59.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,line by line what the service trade pact entails.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.08,0:08:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's more than 20 different NGOs in all\Nthe different streets around the parliament,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.29,0:08:10.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a non-violent way, just deliberating aspects\Nof this cross-strait service agreement.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.47,0:08:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was part of the movement that supported\Nthe logistics and the ICT communication for
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.86,0:08:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this movement.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.94,0:08:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called g0v.tw or just g0v.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.33,0:08:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea of g0v is very simple.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.63,0:08:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For any Taiwan government services that all\Nend in gov.tw, we just register this domain
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.74,0:08:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,g0v.tw so that people, whenever they see a\Ngovernment service or website that's not to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.19,0:08:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people's liking, they can just fork that\Nwebsite and build a more interactive, open
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.37,0:08:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,version that just changes the O to a zero\Non your URL.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.80,0:08:47.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very easy to discover.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.35,0:08:49.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It solves the discoverability problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.77,0:08:54.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like for the legislation, legislative yuan\Ngov.tw, the corresponding shadow government
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.63,0:08:55.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is just ly.g0v.tw.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.84,0:08:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very easy to remember.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.42,0:09:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a very neat hack. [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.40,0:09:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first project of the g0v movement, back\Nin 2012, before I joined, was called budget.g0v.tw.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.06,0:09:16.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's essentially interactive platform that\Nshows a visualization of the national budget.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.11,0:09:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody can just look on the part, the specific\Nproject that they are interested in, have
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.73,0:09:26.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a real-time discussion on the discussion forum\Ncenter on that budget item as the social object
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.23,0:09:28.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of on the budget as a whole.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.69,0:09:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea is forking the government.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.49,0:09:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Usually, the g0v projects are under a free\Nsoftware license or really the Creative Commons
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.29,0:09:38.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Zero license, which is not a license.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.32,0:09:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just a declaration of donation to the\Npublic domain.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.14,0:09:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The result is that when the state-level government,\Nat the end of 2014, want to incorporate this
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.88,0:09:51.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the participatory budget program and\Nthings, they don't have to ask anyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.15,0:09:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just take the g0v forked versions and\Nmerge it back to the state-level governments.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.11,0:09:59.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So far, there's like seven different cities\Nadopting this.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.21,0:10:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As of this year, the national government also\Nmerged this in.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.51,0:10:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today, in join.gov.tw, you can see all the\N1,300 national projects and all its KPIs,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.75,0:10:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its deliverables, and have a real-time discussion\Nwith the career public servants in charge
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.40,0:10:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that governmental project, essentially\Nbypassing the representative democratic system.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.56,0:10:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It enables a real discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.78,0:10:29.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why are there so many civic hackers in Taiwan,\Nwho, during the Sunflower Movement, just a
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.95,0:10:36.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot like me...I just talk to my clients that\NI need to take a three-week leave because
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.08,0:10:37.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,democracy needs me.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.50,0:10:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's hundreds of people who did that back\Nin 2014.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.56,0:10:42.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is that?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.07,0:10:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm 37 now.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.57,0:10:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're the first generation in Taiwan that\Ncan actually do democracy after three decades
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.08,0:10:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of martial law, which was lifted in 1989,\Naround the time of personal computers.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.39,0:11:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We only had our first presidential election\Nin 1996 which is about the year of the popularization
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.93,0:11:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the World Wide Web.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.56,0:11:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Internet and democracy, they're not two things.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.94,0:11:07.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not two different branches of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.94,0:11:09.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same generation of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.53,0:11:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same thing in Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.33,0:11:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The advent of democracy and the advent of\NInternet and direct democracy is the same
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.14,0:11:17.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time in Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.14,0:11:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't have 200 or 300 years of a representative\Ndemocracy tradition.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.96,0:11:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we had democracy, we had also the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.16,0:11:31.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Taiwan, when we see or when we talk about\Nfree software, we translate it as [Mandarin]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.25,0:11:37.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,. It's always free as in freedom to assemble,\Nfreedom of speech, freedom to express, and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.95,0:11:39.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never free of cost.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.46,0:11:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know that freedom is never free of costs.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.71,0:11:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our parents' generation, our grandparents'\Ngeneration fought very hard to get those freedoms.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.15,0:11:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's up to us to use the software freedoms\Nto keep the society free.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.68,0:11:59.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the end of 2014 and after the Occupy, there's\Nmany mayors, mayor candidates who were Occupy
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.13,0:12:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supporters or Occupyers themselves, who very\Nsurprisingly found themselves elected mayors
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.44,0:12:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they did not expect.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.16,0:12:13.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's something that also happen in Spain also\N[laughs] and in many other Occupys in that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.47,0:12:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.47,0:12:19.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the time, the premier during the Occupy\Nresigned, saying, "I don't understand you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.57,0:12:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.57,0:12:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He just resigned.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.68,0:12:27.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A new premier, an engineer, said, "OK, so\Nfrom now on, crowdsourcing and open governance
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.09,0:12:30.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is just going to be the national direction."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.01,0:12:35.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Occupyers and us, the supporters of the\NOccupys, the facilitators and the ICT experts,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.75,0:12:43.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were then hired into the national government\Nin early 2015 to help designing systems to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.25,0:12:48.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collaboratively solve issues, such as Uber,\Nat the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.44,0:12:54.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uber, in 2015, has entered Taiwan and operated\Nlegally using rental cars and professional
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.69,0:12:57.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drivers for a while.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.47,0:13:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2015, they also introduced a new line of\Nservice called uberX.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.92,0:13:07.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is using unlicensed drivers and unlicensed\Ncars and without insurance.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.25,0:13:13.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The PR idea of Uber at the time is to use\Nthis meme, which is a virus of the mind, this
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.54,0:13:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meme called "sharing economy."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.38,0:13:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This meme means very different thing to very\Ndifferent people.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.87,0:13:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the Uber PR department at the time, it\Nmeans very specifically that code dispatch
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.78,0:13:29.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cars better than laws, so we obey code not\Nlaws.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.18,0:13:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very simple message that spreads around\Nthe world.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.16,0:13:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not just in Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.76,0:13:38.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like epidemic of the mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.40,0:13:43.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People, after becoming a driver for a couple\Nweeks, maybe they feel that there's no protection,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.01,0:13:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they didn't actually earn that much.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.65,0:13:48.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They quit driving for uberX, but during that\Ntwo weeks' time, just like the common flu,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.66,0:13:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would have spread through apps to their\Npassengers and to other drivers and to other
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.32,0:13:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,passengers.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.32,0:14:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's impossible, actually, at the time, for\Nus to negotiate with an app or with a virus
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.78,0:14:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the mind like the "sharing economy" because\Nit's in a different category.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.05,0:14:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's impossible to argue with the common flu\Neither.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.27,0:14:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the time, many state governments try use\NOld World methods such as confiscating.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.31,0:14:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Paris, they confiscated office, confiscated\Nmachines, put people to jail.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.88,0:14:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then the next morning, Uber still operates.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.15,0:14:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't really work in the old governmental\Nmethods.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.49,0:14:26.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We thought about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.89,0:14:32.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We thought that during the Occupy, where people\Nlisten to each other's positions deeply and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.35,0:14:38.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feel each other's feelings around the CSSTA,\Nmaybe we can reuse some of that technique
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.20,0:14:40.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to work on the Uber issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.71,0:14:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, we think that deliberation is a\Nvaccine of the mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.19,0:14:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once people have really felt and empathized\Nwith different sides' positions and come up
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.49,0:14:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with common values, people become immune to\Nspecific virus of the mind in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.16,0:14:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I promise to check the questions at this point.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.36,0:15:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just going to do it right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.75,0:15:11.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's 17 questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.38,0:15:17.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll finish this section and then switch right\Nback to questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.13,0:15:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A proper deliberation involves four different\Nstages.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.10,0:15:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We used a system invented in Canada, in 2005.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.92,0:15:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called the focused conversation method,\Nor FCM.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.43,0:15:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's known as the ORID method also because\Nit separates the discussion into four different
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.27,0:15:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stages.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.27,0:15:37.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is objective or facts, where people\Nask each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.98,0:15:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like the government publishes open data, all\Nwe know about uberX.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.24,0:15:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also ask all the private sector and civil\Nsociety to donate data into this shared, fact-checked
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.16,0:15:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,database.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.46,0:15:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once people check the facts on the timeline\Nand we can all agree with the facts, the various
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.54,0:15:56.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stakeholders then express their feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.23,0:15:58.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the same fact, you may feel angry, and\NI may feel happy.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.98,0:16:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's all OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.27,0:16:05.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not until we checked everybody's feelings\Nthat we find that there are some resonating
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.85,0:16:10.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feelings that people all feel as important\Nconcerns to ideate on.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.95,0:16:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After the facts, the feelings is the ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.12,0:16:17.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The best ideas are the ideas that takes care\Nof the most people's feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.24,0:16:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once we uncover those ideas, we then translate\Nit into legalese.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.22,0:16:27.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Using the old governmental method, the main\Nbarrier is the language barrier.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.92,0:16:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The professional public servants, the private\Nsector lobbyists, and the independent academics,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.18,0:16:39.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so on use a professional language, while\Npeople on the street using a different language.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.86,0:16:46.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Under this situation, when people say the\Nsame thing but mean very different things,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.32,0:16:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the facts and the feelings gets clouded.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.34,0:16:51.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ideas in this environment become ideologies.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.92,0:16:56.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ideologies are an even more potent virus of\Nmind that blinds people to new facts and to
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.48,0:16:58.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,each other's feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.98,0:17:04.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After we get everybody on the same page, checking\Nthe facts that by itself is important, we
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.39,0:17:09.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,use a free software system under AGPL called\NPol.is.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.31,0:17:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pol.is is a so-called AI-powered conversation\Nthat basically just provides a face to the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.60,0:17:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crowd.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.60,0:17:22.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We ask everybody to basically look at one\Nstatement that their friends or just a random
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.01,0:17:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person on the Internet propose about their\Nfeeling, their [Mandarin] something.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.98,0:17:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that, or I feel that passenger liability\Ninsurance is important.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.95,0:17:39.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you agree or disagree with the statements,\Nyour avatar will move among your social media
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.97,0:17:44.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,friends -- or you don't have to login -- among\Nwell-known people on social media.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:44.14,0:17:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can discover that your friends and your\Nfamily actually think about this in a very
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.71,0:17:49.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.71,0:17:51.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are still your friends and family.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.58,0:17:53.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You just didn't talk about this over dinner.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.48,0:17:59.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It makes it difficult for people to antagonize,\Nto treat people with different viewpoints
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.30,0:18:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as enemies.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.30,0:18:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rather it enables people to say that OK, after\Nanswering a few yes or no questions, I can
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.09,0:18:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also contribute my feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.58,0:18:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People compete on feelings that resonates\Nwith the most number of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.84,0:18:18.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say if your ideas or if your feelings resonates\Nwith a supermajority amount of people -- that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.73,0:18:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, across all the groups, every group has\Nmore than majority agreeing with you -- then
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.34,0:18:29.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the feelings and proposals with the most resonance,\Nwith the most consensus, we use that as the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.35,0:18:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agenda to talk with the stakeholders, with\Nthe taxi unions, with the Uber people and
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.16,0:18:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.38,0:18:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In this way, we send the same URL to everybody,\Nand then spread it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.16,0:18:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the key interface design decisions\Nduring a Pol.is discussion, unlike many other
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.32,0:18:49.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social media venues, is that you don't see\Nthe reply button here.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.15,0:18:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no reply.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.63,0:18:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we discovered is if you have reply, people\Nfocus their energy on discrediting the person
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.23,0:19:00.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who posted a comment that they don't agree\Nwith.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.97,0:19:04.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like Slido, Pol.is, basically, if you see\Nsomething that you don't agree with, your
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.42,0:19:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,best recourse is to prepare something more\Nnuanced, that other people can agree with.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.22,0:19:14.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After a few weeks, in all the Pol.is discussions,\Nwhat we see is that people recognize their
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.63,0:19:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,differences in those divisive statements,\Nbut they don't spend more time on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.54,0:19:25.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People instead spend a lot of time refining\Nthe nuanced consensus, so that people can
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.24,0:19:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resonate, kind of compete, with the most resonance\Nacross the different groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.64,0:19:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We use a live consultation method, where all\Nthe stakeholders are invited.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.64,0:19:38.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The taxi company, Uber, union people, and\Nso on, the co-ops and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.59,0:19:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We just checked with them all the agenda set\Nby this Pol.is conversation, one by one.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.28,0:19:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Saying, "Do you agree?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.54,0:19:46.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you don't, why?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.56,0:19:47.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you do, why?"
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.79,0:19:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because it's live streamed, with thousands\Nof people watching, people become bound to
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.85,0:19:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever they have said.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.30,0:19:58.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uber, at the time, said, "OK, so we work with\Nour drivers, to help them obtain a professional
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.51,0:19:59.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,driver's license."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.51,0:20:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're bound by the words they spoke at this\Nlive stream meeting.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.73,0:20:09.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After this, we then worked on ratifying the\Nnew what we call the diversification of taxi.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.51,0:20:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the highest score is actually contributed\Nby the free software community, by Irvin Chen,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.58,0:20:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Mozilla community here.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.69,0:20:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who said that we should take this opportunity\Nto upgrade the taxi regulations, so that the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.15,0:20:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,best practices from Uber, for example, taxi\Ndoesn't have to be painted yellow, and there's
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.85,0:20:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the two-way rating system, and so on, could\Nbe used to facilitate better taxi qualities
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.13,0:20:32.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here in Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.13,0:20:38.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Led by that consensus and six other consensus\Nitems, we then created a law so that now Uber
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.82,0:20:43.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is operating legally in Taiwan, but only with\Nregistered driver's licensed cars.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.89,0:20:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You also get email about your rides, insurance,\Nevery Uber ride, and you can also call taxi
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.57,0:20:52.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Uber, and vice versa.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.44,0:20:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what we call a multi-stakeholder consultation,\Nafter which people's consensus set the agenda
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.14,0:21:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the politicians to talk about.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.43,0:21:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's take some questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.69,0:21:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's 13 people, I think, 15 now, would\Nlike to know, "How can we help other governments
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.83,0:21:16.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enable open standards?"
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.32,0:21:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is an excellent question.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.86,0:21:27.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Taiwan, we have this idea of the GDSP,\Nor the Government Digital Service Principal.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.54,0:21:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is modeled, loosely, after the Government\NDigital Service in the UK, who also published
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.91,0:21:36.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their digital standards.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.46,0:21:42.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The GDS is a thought leader in this area,\Nand they pioneered a lot of digital standards
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.22,0:21:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are not just open, as in open source,\Nor open as in open protocol, or format, but
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.77,0:21:51.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,open as in open innovation, where people,\Neverybody can contribute.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.95,0:21:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of their key principles is being user-centric,\Nwhich we here expanded in Taiwan, meaning
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.35,0:22:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the users here not only include citizens\Nbut also people working in the front line
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.94,0:22:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the public service.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.65,0:22:14.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second thing that the UK GDS also advocates\Nis that when you build a digital service,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.38,0:22:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need not to only test with people, and\Nthe frontline staff, but also test with the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.76,0:22:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ministry and the cabinet from the beginning\Nto the end.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.91,0:22:27.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ultimately, they're accountable for this digital\Nservice, and they can then solicit more idea
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.48,0:22:30.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of innovation from this service.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.75,0:22:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We adopted this spirit, and also call for\Nleader to be basically cross-disciplinary.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.62,0:22:46.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the person who asked this question\Nis maybe most interested in our GDSP number
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.60,0:22:54.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eight, which says, "Open first," basically,\Nopen is the priority.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:54.38,0:23:02.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To reduce the time spent on developing services,\Nand the total cost of ownership, open should
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.50,0:23:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be the foremost principal when designing and\Nbuilding services.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.31,0:23:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By open we mean specifically that all the\Nmachine-to-machine data built by this system
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.98,0:23:20.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need to be available under an open license,\Nmost commonly the Creative Comments Attribution
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.01,0:23:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4.0 license, which is the default license\Nfor all the ICT systems built in Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.84,0:23:28.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, we prioritize open source.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.97,0:23:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the service component reuses existing open\Nsource components, we recommend people to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.56,0:23:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,use Linux Foundation's SPDX, or S-P-D-X, manifest\Nto solve this warranty issue for the system
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.87,0:23:45.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,integrators.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.07,0:23:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once they declare their reusable free software\Ncomponents under SPDX, the warranty in the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.28,0:23:55.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal perspective has a clear delineation.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.03,0:24:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By this, we want to encourage people to innovate\Nbased on what the government has delivered,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.85,0:24:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and improve on existing government services\Nby forking the government, occasionally getting
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.72,0:24:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it right, and getting governments merging\Nit back.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.02,0:24:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not only open data and open source, we also\Nsay that it need to conform with open standards,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.29,0:24:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that it could be reused and also, it builds\Non common API and common components.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.90,0:24:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All this is so that we can quickly reiterate\Nand improve the services.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.09,0:24:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a support group of all the governments\Nwho endorse this standard.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.98,0:24:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called Digital Nations, and previously\Nknown as Digital Five, or Digital Seven, depending
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.20,0:24:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the number of people in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.36,0:24:41.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a chat channel.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:41.15,0:24:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We share GitHub repositories.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.76,0:24:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We communicate very regularly, so that the\Ngovernments who embrace open by default have
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.34,0:24:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this venue.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.80,0:25:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think our next meeting is Forward 50, in\NOttawa in Canada this November.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.03,0:25:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the governments are solving very much\Nsimilar issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.25,0:25:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the components that we deliver, it's not\Njust for improvement of our citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.28,0:25:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, offering it, so that it could be reused\Nby the government and people building their
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.37,0:25:18.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,own self-governance system, not necessarily\Nstate government or representative governments
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.46,0:25:19.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worldwide.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.87,0:25:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The short answer to this is to develop and\Nadhere to a clear government digital service
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.13,0:25:29.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,principle, to publish and circulate this widely.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.03,0:25:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To encourage this in the procurement laws,\Nand to encourage this in the accountability,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.21,0:25:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the auditing laws, in the statistics laws,\Nwhich we all have done.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.49,0:25:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then participate internationally in support\Ngroups in the democratic and open governance
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.74,0:25:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,governments and basically share these best\Npractice, or at least better practices, as
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.91,0:25:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,open toolkits.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:50.42,0:25:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the thing that we're doing.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.03,0:26:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,12 people would like me to answer, "What do\NI wish from Debian?"
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.89,0:26:05.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wish that Debian would live long and prosper.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:05.18,0:26:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:07.22,0:26:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[applause]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.26,0:26:17.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Really, along with other large endeavors,\Nlike the Mozilla Foundation, and the Linux
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.66,0:26:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Foundation, which I just mentioned, Wikimedia\NFoundation, you folks are the foundation upon
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.77,0:26:29.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which that we are advocating to the representative\Ndemocratic system that, "Hey there is some
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.46,0:26:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,merit in this kind of radical transparency,\Nand that kind of radical participation."
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.80,0:26:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a conservative anarchist minister, I have\Nthree conditions going into cabinet.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:41.12,0:26:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is that I don't issue a command\Nto anyone, nor do I take a command.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.61,0:26:50.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything is by voluntary association.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.25,0:26:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is straight from the Debian Constitution,\Nwhere, by constitution, nobody can really
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.19,0:26:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be forced into doing any non-voluntary work.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.58,0:27:05.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second one is that I get to work anywhere\Non the planet, and it still counts as working.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.24,0:27:10.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's teleworking, and it also enabled a lot\Nof e-government imperatives, when people discovered
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.63,0:27:14.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that by a paper-based delivery they can't\Nreally reach me.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:14.56,0:27:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can reach me after a week or so.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.16,0:27:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is far easier if you just use email.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.38,0:27:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The third thing, also very important, is that\Nwhen I develop those voluntary co-creation
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.60,0:27:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,methodologies, it is important for me to be\Nradically transparent.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.95,0:27:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By radical transparency I mean not just meeting\Nwith lobbyists and journalists, are all published
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.72,0:27:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,online, even internal meetings that I chair,\Nwe also publish everything as a transcript
Dialogue: 0,0:27:46.08,0:27:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two weeks after every internal meeting.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:48.74,0:27:54.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It looks like this, it's also using a free\Nsoftware system, called SayIt developed by,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.100,0:27:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, mySociety, in the UK.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.28,0:28:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When David Plouffe, speaking for Uber at the\Ntime, come to a lobby and have a conversation,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.08,0:28:07.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only is our discussion on the record,\Nit's on 360 Record.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.63,0:28:11.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can put it on VR or Cardboard or something,\Nand relive the conversation.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.86,0:28:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] Every utterance has a permanent URL.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.87,0:28:20.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can get full accountability of who said\Nwhat, where.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:20.71,0:28:25.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is important for the government service,\Nbecause the public servants in this situation
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.37,0:28:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they become very innovative, contrary to popular\Nbelief.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.29,0:28:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Previously, when something gets right, and\Npeople like it, the minister always takes
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.36,0:28:39.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the credit, and if something gets wrong,\Nit's always the career public servants who
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.74,0:28:45.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,didn't execute well, or something and the\Nnetizens has a way to blame the people in
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.51,0:28:47.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,charge for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.18,0:28:50.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In that situation, there is no motivation\Nfor them to innovate.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.14,0:28:55.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, with this radically transparent system,\Nnot only is the civil society more understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.65,0:29:02.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the context before making a decision, but\Nalso all the credit gets shared to the actual
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.36,0:29:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,career public servants who proposed something\Ninnovative in the first place.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.46,0:29:10.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If anything goes wrong, well, because as far\Nas I know, I'm the only minister in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.49,0:29:13.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing this, it's all Audrey's fault.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.51,0:29:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can absorb that blame, while people share\Nthe credit.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.60,0:29:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We get a lot of very innovative ideas, frankly,\Nfrom the public service, such as adopting
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.04,0:29:29.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a thoroughly free software system called sandstorm.io\Nfor our entire public service, in all the
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.06,0:29:33.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different branches of government, not just\Nthe administration.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.14,0:29:37.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We use only free software on this sandstorm.io\Nsystem.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.07,0:29:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Davros replaces Dropbox, EtherCalc replaces\NGoogle Spreadsheet, Etherpad replaces Google
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.72,0:29:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Doc, Wekan replaces Trello, and there's also\NRocket.Chat.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.54,0:29:49.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sure you know the other tools that the\Nfree software people uses.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.09,0:29:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, we say any public servants, as\Nlong as they have a gov.tw email address,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.57,0:29:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can enjoy this for free, and even develop\Nnew applications on it, because it's cyber
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.84,0:30:00.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,security hardened.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.60,0:30:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We ask our best white hat hackers to attack\Nit, and they filed a few CVEs, so that we're
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.46,0:30:10.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] reasonably sure that it's very secure\Nnow, so that people can develop applications
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.31,0:30:16.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by themselves, which is free software, and\Nplanning travels together, ordering lunch
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.15,0:30:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,boxes together.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.29,0:30:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unleash innovation within the government,\Nbecause they know that this system can absorb
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.19,0:30:26.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cybersecurity risk, and I can absorb the\Npolitical risk.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:26.63,0:30:32.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,17 people would like to know, "It's good that\Nyou discovered Debian, and what makes it interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.31,0:30:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at such a young age, do you run Debian yourself?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.54,0:30:36.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have you contributed to Debian?"
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.81,0:30:45.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Personally, my desktop environment when I\Nstarted learning -- I think it's around 1999
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.31,0:30:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- system-level programming -- I'm sorry -- has\Nalways been FreeBSD.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.80,0:30:49.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.87,0:30:54.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've never actually...I used the Debian compatibility\Nlayer.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.97,0:30:57.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know whether that counts or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.59,0:31:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] I've always been a FreeBSD developer\Nand contributed to also driver support in
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.58,0:31:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FreeBSD.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:04.58,0:31:10.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, most of my contributions in the Perl\Ncommunity and in OpenFoundry, here in Taiwan,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.84,0:31:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in early 2000s, were first committed to the\NFreeBSD port system.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:15.35,0:31:16.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a different culture.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.82,0:31:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not copyleft.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:17.91,0:31:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not copyright.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.91,0:31:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's copy center.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.91,0:31:22.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You go to the copy center and make many copies.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.30,0:31:26.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a [laughs] very permissive [laughs]\Ncommunity.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.18,0:31:29.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's my primary community, the FreeBSD community.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.100,0:31:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's various efforts within Debian to reconcile\Nwith, for example, the module signing system.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:37.74,0:31:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I piloted the module signing system in CPAN,\Nin the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:44.68,0:31:47.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a lot of packaging issues and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.50,0:31:49.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I basically chime in from here to there.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.100,0:31:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did not participate in the Debian democracy,\Nbut I really admired from afar, in the FreeBSD
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.81,0:31:57.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,camp.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.84,0:31:58.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.87,0:32:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Does Taiwan has an open-source strategy?"
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.61,0:32:02.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.61,0:32:04.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm glad you asked.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.85,0:32:05.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called DIGI+.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.88,0:32:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know how much of this is translated\Ninto English.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.84,0:32:13.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, all of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.70,0:32:14.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's good.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:14.70,0:32:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go to smart.taiwan.gov.tw...We tend\Nto have one web page for each major government
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.96,0:32:23.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policies.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.96,0:32:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's smart.taiwan.gov.tw.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.23,0:32:27.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's AI Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.51,0:32:28.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's bio Taiwan.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:28.94,0:32:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's also CI Taiwan -- I think that's not\Nyet translated -- where the CI stands for
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.24,0:32:42.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,civil IoT, which is the shared open data and\Nalso open algorithm platform for all the different
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.69,0:32:48.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,environmental data aggregated in a supercomputing\Ncenter that combines the people's, the g0v
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.13,0:32:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,site of air sensors and also the government\Nsite of government sensors.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.23,0:33:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can all talk with the same fact-based or\Nevidence-based policy-making process.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.33,0:33:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I encourage you to check out Smart Taiwan\Nand also links to Asia Silicon Valley.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.39,0:33:13.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we talk about open society here and also\Nabout the education, like interdisciplinary
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.09,0:33:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,digital talents, in the DIGI+ plan, we specifically\Nsaid especially in the basic education level,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:18.87,0:33:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is to say K-12 level...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.94,0:33:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also because in the next five years all the\Ncollege-level students also need to learn
Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.06,0:33:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,computational thinking and programming, half\Nof it, I think, by the year 2021 or something.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:34.38,0:33:37.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of it needs to be based on free software.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.69,0:33:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the student graduates and joins the private\Nsector and choose to use proprietary software,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.10,0:33:44.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is their choice.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.43,0:33:48.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, the government can't do much about\Nit, but while they're still children, while
Dialogue: 0,0:33:48.13,0:33:54.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're still in the schools, it is very important\Nfor us to not let the children or the students
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.10,0:33:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be subject to vendor lock-in.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.80,0:34:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the time they graduate, maybe the vendor\Nhas already moved somewhere else.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.53,0:34:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe the vendor lose interest in that product\Nline.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:02.84,0:34:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We see a lot of that dynamic.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.60,0:34:11.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At least in the education system, we're very\Nfirm that we prefer free software for education.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.22,0:34:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When teaching computational thinking, when\Nteaching artificial intelligence, when teaching
Dialogue: 0,0:34:15.06,0:34:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all those different DIGI+ powered smart machinery,\Ngreen energy technology, and so on, we prefer
Dialogue: 0,0:34:22.70,0:34:25.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free software when it's in the school.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.24,0:34:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the DIGI+, there is a strategy to raise\Nawareness and have talents in school.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.03,0:34:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's also twoss.io, I think -- I hope I\Nremember this right -- which is not yet translated
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.92,0:34:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in English.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.58,0:34:46.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's somewhat translated to English.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.39,0:34:54.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In any case, what this tries to do is basically\Nby getting people sufficient education materials,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.55,0:34:59.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so people working on any level of education\Ncan point to existing communities and introduce
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.75,0:35:02.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their students to such community.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:02.09,0:35:08.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even people working in like city-level government\Nor national-level government can also point
Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.05,0:35:17.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the success cases of incorporating PostgreSQL\Nor OpenStack or Docker Ecosystem and/or TensorFlow
Dialogue: 0,0:35:17.10,0:35:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever and which is the success story.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.91,0:35:23.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're replacing proprietary systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.45,0:35:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not about procurement anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.23,0:35:29.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We already change our procurement regulations\Nand the government digital service principle.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.89,0:35:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All that people need now is a boost of confidence\Nof [Mandarin] , basically, [laughs] by people
Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.91,0:35:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,keep telling them it's OK to use free software.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.53,0:35:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the twoss.io.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.41,0:35:46.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you find anything wrong with it or anything\Nyou can contribute, please feel free to let
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.51,0:35:48.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,us know in twoss.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.26,0:35:54.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Why is Taiwan so restrictive on Internet\Naccess, captive portals, register with ID
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.33,0:35:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for iTaiwan WiFi access, etc.?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:56.50,0:36:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there the reason, bad experiences or not?"
Dialogue: 0,0:36:00.04,0:36:07.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason is usually cited as "cybersecurity,"\Nbut it is not a very strong reason.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.37,0:36:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are actively looking, actually, like in\Nthe Taiwan high-speed rails, to relax the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:13.06,0:36:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,captive portal.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.58,0:36:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Especially when you're on a high-speed moving\Ntrain, it is very difficult to actually resume
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.07,0:36:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from hotspot to hotspots if you need to go\Nthrough like five or three screens to register.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:27.67,0:36:32.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the first place where we will relax\Nthis captive portal thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.94,0:36:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once this is done and piloted and proven that\Nit really doesn't need two more cybersecurity
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.56,0:36:43.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guards, that we can put other cybersecurity\Nguards elsewhere on the stack, not necessarily
Dialogue: 0,0:36:43.70,0:36:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the personal identification level, then\Nwe will also relax the internal.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.00,0:36:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Within the government agencies, we often provide\Ntwo WiFis, one for employees of the government
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.40,0:36:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one called iTaiwan, also for visitors.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:59.54,0:37:03.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The visitor WiFi, we then will also look to\Nrelax more.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.78,0:37:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's because those two venues, in the high-speed\Nrails and also in visitors to government agencies,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.60,0:37:13.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you already did your registration somewhere\Nelse.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.56,0:37:17.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't physically actually need you to register\Nagain.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.22,0:37:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm less sure about the city-level public\NWiFi, like TPE-Free, or other city-level WiFi
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.02,0:37:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they have a certain level of autonomy.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.51,0:37:27.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't actually dictate what they do.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.97,0:37:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We just pilot this relaxed login portal thing\Nand also establish corresponding cybersecurity
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.72,0:37:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.72,0:37:39.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe the city-level people will also get\Nenlightened.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.51,0:37:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll see.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.13,0:37:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's eleven people who want to know, "Is\Nit possible to be a citizen in Taiwan and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.08,0:37:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interact fully with the government without\Nusing any proprietary software?"
Dialogue: 0,0:37:49.34,0:37:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm glad you asked because that's one of the\Ncases that I'd like to show.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.28,0:37:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.28,0:37:59.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It used to be very, very difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.84,0:38:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just last May actually, there was a petition\Nthat talks explicitly about it, very explicit.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.11,0:38:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] Last May, there was an e-petition\Nor a national e-petition system.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.73,0:38:20.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After 5,000 people participate online...You\Ncan use email or SMS.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.59,0:38:22.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not a real-name basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.86,0:38:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, after 5,000 people counter-signed\Na petition, the government is obliged to respond
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.60,0:38:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.60,0:38:37.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This petition is by this user experience designer\N卓志遠, which says that our tax filing
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.17,0:38:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system is explosively hostile to users.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.97,0:38:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's negative energy in that petition.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:44.68,0:38:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's more negative energy in the body,\Nwhich I will spare you the quote.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.98,0:38:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, at the time, about 80 percent of\Ncomments in that petition discussion area
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.96,0:38:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is very negative.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.39,0:38:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It caused for the resignation of the minister\Nof finance.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:59.64,0:39:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It caused...there's a lot of accusations to\Nthe vendors who provide the system, and all
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.66,0:39:11.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because in Windows there is a proprietary\NWindows-based application for tax filing.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:11.77,0:39:17.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For Linux and for Mac and basically non-Windows\Nsystems, there is a Java applet.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.55,0:39:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because last year Oracle Inc. deprecated Java\Napplets, the user experience become very,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.16,0:39:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.16,0:39:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People will see that "Please wait.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.79,0:39:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's still installing some applet components."
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.44,0:39:34.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the pop-up is by default blocked,\Nso nothing happens.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.87,0:39:37.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After 40 minutes, people are still waiting.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.17,0:39:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It really is very, very difficult to use.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:40.16,0:39:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After the e-petition, basically there's a\Nparticipation officer team in each ministry.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.12,0:39:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each participation office, or POs, is responsible.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:49.21,0:39:54.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just like media officer who talk to journalists\Nor a parliamentary officer who talk to MPs,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.04,0:39:57.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,POs talk to such emergent petitions.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.39,0:40:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By basically saying, I think, not only very\Nquick, like 36 hours after this petition,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:03.76,0:40:09.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our PO 楊金亨 just posted publicly that\Neverybody who complained about our tax filing
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.41,0:40:15.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experience on non-Windows systems is cordially\Ninvited to a co-creation workshop, some Friday,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:15.91,0:40:18.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Ministry of finance.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.05,0:40:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is very interesting because just by proposing\Nthis invitation...Previously, like 80 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.80,0:40:24.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people were just flaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:24.75,0:40:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,20 percent of people were saying, "Well, we're\Nusing Windows.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:27.56,0:40:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It works kind of OK."
Dialogue: 0,0:40:28.75,0:40:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody really took heed to them.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.44,0:40:36.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After this invitation is sent, 80 percent\Nof people started proposing useful suggestions,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:36.42,0:40:37.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,useful recommendations.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:37.82,0:40:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Only less than 20 percent still remained trolling\Nor flaming people, but people don't pay attention
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.75,0:40:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to them anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.96,0:40:50.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, what we did was inviting the trolls,\Nwho turns out to be not trolls.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:50.55,0:40:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were just fed up with the tax filing\Nsystem.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:52.89,0:40:55.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They had to vent their feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.31,0:40:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After they vent their feelings, we all then\Nsolicit ideas from them.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.14,0:41:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who can make it to Taipei, make it\Nto Taipei.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:01.76,0:41:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, people can still participate using\Nlive-streaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:06.24,0:41:11.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the key thing here is radical transparency\Nand also accountability, meaning that people
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.69,0:41:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who say that the words are explosively crowded,\Nwe just put that, post it as words are explosively
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.45,0:41:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crowded, that it is so brilliantly written\Nthat people are confused.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:24.47,0:41:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then we just post it.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:26.36,0:41:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People say instead of designing a system makes\Npeople feel better, people don't feel good
Dialogue: 0,0:41:31.81,0:41:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at all when they think about filing taxes,\Nso we should shorten the experience instead
Dialogue: 0,0:41:36.59,0:41:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of trying to make people feel better and so\Non.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:39.93,0:41:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, people who proposed such ideations\Nonline, we just use service design methodologies
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.81,0:41:51.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and hold five co-creation workshops with all\Nthe different stakeholders involved in the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.45,0:41:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tax filing experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:53.49,0:41:59.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This year, the tax filing experience for non-Windows\Nsystems is entirely HTML5-based.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.38,0:42:02.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It adheres to the open standards.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.16,0:42:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People can just using any platform that can\Nrun a browser to access the tax filing system.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.35,0:42:16.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The short answer to this question is that\Nit has become more and more possible while
Dialogue: 0,0:42:16.26,0:42:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we translate or transform existing desktop-oriented\Nor Windows-specific or Java applets into web-based
Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.16,0:42:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,situations.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.16,0:42:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if you insist that all the JavaScript\Nlibraries and CSS libraries that government
Dialogue: 0,0:42:32.62,0:42:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system use has also to be open source or free\Nsoftware, that would take a little bit more
Dialogue: 0,0:42:38.01,0:42:39.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.01,0:42:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will need the current generation of system\Nto be wholly replaced by post-government digital
Dialogue: 0,0:42:44.49,0:42:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,service principle, post-GDSP, systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.31,0:42:51.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are focusing on reducing the load on the\Nclient side first.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:51.21,0:42:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the time, I think you can complete most\Nof the interactions of the governmental issues
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.05,0:43:02.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like filing taxes and so on if you're OK with\Nusing a free software browser, but there's
Dialogue: 0,0:43:02.21,0:43:04.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still some proprietary JavaScript code.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:04.57,0:43:07.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the compromise situation we're in\Nat the moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:07.66,0:43:12.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With the rollout of GDSP, we're also looking\Nto make the JavaScript and CSS and also the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.59,0:43:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,backend systems more non-proprietary.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.64,0:43:26.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anonymous would like to know the shared objects\Nin the tax filing plugin is not open source.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:26.37,0:43:27.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why?
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.37,0:43:33.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the copyright belongs to, I think,\Nthe vendor Chunghwa Telecom.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.72,0:43:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Back when we signed the agreement with the\NChunghwa Telecom, the GDSP was not in effect.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:41.69,0:43:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The contract, basically, attributed the copyright\Nto the vendor, who only conferred usage right
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.17,0:43:48.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the government and the citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:48.73,0:43:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a mistake that we will not repeat.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.22,0:43:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the moment, we don't have the legal recourse\Nfor the current generation of plugin systems
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.19,0:43:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be relicensed as free software.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:59.54,0:44:00.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I tried.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:00.54,0:44:01.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:44:01.54,0:44:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The easiest way is just for the next version\Nof identification methods, such as the national
Dialogue: 0,0:44:07.76,0:44:11.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,healthcare card, which, by the way, is currently\Nin public consultation.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.72,0:44:20.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you want to contribute, like you demand\Nfree software stack for the entire Medicare
Dialogue: 0,0:44:20.93,0:44:27.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system, please feel free to go to join.gov.tw,\Nwhere we are now asking for consultation on
Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.38,0:44:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are looking to virtualize their\Nuniversal Medicare card and/or to use NFC-based
Dialogue: 0,0:44:34.36,0:44:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authentication.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:36.17,0:44:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want to know about people's preference\Nwhen it comes to the technology, to the regulations,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:41.68,0:44:45.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as to the total cost of ownership,\Nand also of usage.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:45.02,0:44:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you feel strongly about it, please do contribute\Nonline on Join platform, so that we can say
Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.67,0:44:56.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the people writing the contracts that people\Nreally feel that it is very important for
Dialogue: 0,0:44:56.69,0:45:01.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our next-generation authentication methods\Nto be nonproprietary.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:01.65,0:45:07.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eight people would like to know, "What is\Nyour opinion on e-commerce application refusing
Dialogue: 0,0:45:07.11,0:45:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to operating on restriction-free devices like\Nrooted Androids and jailbroken iDevices.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:12.69,0:45:14.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it fair?"
Dialogue: 0,0:45:14.33,0:45:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mostly, I think they do this with the call\Nto "fraud prevention."
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.33,0:45:27.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs] It's not about fairness.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:27.03,0:45:33.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it is about the choice or the freedom\Nof choice or the liberty of users.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:33.62,0:45:38.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason why GDSP prefers free software\Nis because when it comes to healthcare or
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.80,0:45:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tax filing, there really is no choice.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:41.61,0:45:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To be a citizen in Taiwan, you have to go\Nthrough some government-sponsored API endpoints
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.25,0:45:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to produce some government-sponsored form\Ndata and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.39,0:45:58.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because there is no choice, we really need\Nto be open so that people can hold us to account
Dialogue: 0,0:45:58.16,0:46:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be more transparent and also innovate on\Nexisting solutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.14,0:46:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For e-commerce applications where there are\Nno de facto monopolies, when people still
Dialogue: 0,0:46:07.22,0:46:14.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a choice, the government, at the moment,\Ndoes not take a stance against the e-commerce
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.07,0:46:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apps who uses fraud detection or prevention\Nmethods that result in incompatibility with
Dialogue: 0,0:46:21.20,0:46:24.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rooted Androids and jailbroken iDevices.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:24.98,0:46:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think one of the possible direction out\Nof this dilemma is to basically talk to people
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.03,0:46:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who work on "fraud prevention," just like\Nhow we talked with the high-speed rails and
Dialogue: 0,0:46:38.57,0:46:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government agencies providing iTaiwan\Nsoftware and WiFi for free.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:44.31,0:46:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We basically said, "You can do your fraud\Nprevention or cybersecurity on another layer
Dialogue: 0,0:46:49.41,0:46:55.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this system and not in the particular layer\Nof requiring a captive portal and the MAC
Dialogue: 0,0:46:55.01,0:46:58.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,address, which is very easy to spoof anyway."
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.82,0:47:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think just by talking to people like this,\Nor we talk to people who advocate copyright
Dialogue: 0,0:47:06.26,0:47:08.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protection through blocking of the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.74,0:47:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say with IPv6, it's getting more and more\Nimpossible.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:13.22,0:47:19.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Watermarking or real-time watermarking methodologies,\Nit infringes on the consumers' or customers'
Dialogue: 0,0:47:19.48,0:47:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experience is less.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:21.10,0:47:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is actually a better solution overall than\Njust banning entire websites.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:26.27,0:47:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People have legitimate interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.74,0:47:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are legitimate stakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:29.58,0:47:35.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said, often we think of it as like a\Ntug of war, but in many different cases, it
Dialogue: 0,0:47:35.87,0:47:40.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is possible actually with some what we call\Nsocial innovation, an innovation that basically
Dialogue: 0,0:47:40.70,0:47:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,takes care of all the different sides of interest\Nand leaves nobody worse off.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:45.64,0:47:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would encourage people who feel strongly\Nabout it to contact your local, friendly e-commerce
Dialogue: 0,0:47:53.70,0:48:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,association like [Mandarin] , who does have\Na forum to talk about things like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:00.70,0:48:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We use that forum to talk about fraud detection\Nand prevention of people selling counterfeit
Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.06,0:48:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goods on Facebook to pretty good effect.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:10.08,0:48:14.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would also encourage you to contact your\Nlocal association about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.35,0:48:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Can we see any legislator supporting free\Nsoftware in the government movement, like
Dialogue: 0,0:48:19.91,0:48:23.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Public Money, Public Code from the EFF?"
Dialogue: 0,0:48:23.70,0:48:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Taiwan, when you see this government, the\NGDSP, we already say this.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:33.00,0:48:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is public code.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.55,0:48:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is open data.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:36.27,0:48:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is open standards and also common APIs.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.58,0:48:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We used also a Linux Foundation project called\NOAS 3.0, which was Swagger, to state that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.21,0:48:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the different systems built, as long as\Nit has a machine-to-machine component, need
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.46,0:48:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to adhere to this machine-to-machine open\NAPI specification.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:57.52,0:49:05.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason why we put an equal amount of attention\Non the source code license versus the machine-to-machine
Dialogue: 0,0:49:05.50,0:49:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,integration is that if we only talk about\Npublic code or the license, it is very often
Dialogue: 0,0:49:09.93,0:49:15.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a system integrator will deliver something\Nthat is technically free software, but it
Dialogue: 0,0:49:15.44,0:49:22.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depends on, for example, expensive Oracle\Nsystems or even more expensive DB2 systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:22.13,0:49:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That basically still restricts the reuse across\Ndifferent ministries and agencies.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.22,0:49:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By saying for all the import and export, for\Nall the batch-level access, by basically treating
Dialogue: 0,0:49:33.84,0:49:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,machine-to-machine accessibility the same\Nway we treat universal access, like for blind
Dialogue: 0,0:49:39.03,0:49:40.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people...
Dialogue: 0,0:49:40.03,0:49:44.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We basically say while you may still depend\Non Oracle or DB2 at a point, the next vendor
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.66,0:49:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can just build on your API and even batch\Nexport what's in this public money-paid database
Dialogue: 0,0:49:51.38,0:49:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and rebuild a service without depending on\Nany proprietary technological stack.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:56.31,0:50:01.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would argue that the freedom of portability\Nis as important as freedom to fork and freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:50:01.77,0:50:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reuse.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:02.77,0:50:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Both are of course very important.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.69,0:50:12.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Constitutionally, I am not supposed to speculate\Non legislators, but [laughs] there is various
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.30,0:50:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,younger legislators in all the different parties\Nwho are also interested in this area.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.92,0:50:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there any chance, eight people would like\Nto know, that I can urge deans of higher education
Dialogue: 0,0:50:24.57,0:50:28.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,facilities like NCTU to deploy IP version\N6.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:28.55,0:50:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a bootstrapping problem, isn't it? [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.41,0:50:40.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This year, we see a surge of IPv6 adoption,\Nactually, after TWNIC changed hands and [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.63,0:50:44.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embrace a very IPv6-first roadmap.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.55,0:50:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We see, for example, Chunghwa Telecom has\Ndrastically increased the IPv6 connectivity
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.23,0:50:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of their mobile clients.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:52.22,0:50:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also see other telecoms and other peering\Ninstitutions and ISPs starting to adopt this
Dialogue: 0,0:50:58.88,0:51:00.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trend.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:00.06,0:51:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once there's sufficient amount of people using\Nthe clients that are IPv6-enabled and even
Dialogue: 0,0:51:06.31,0:51:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IPv6-preferred, there will be sufficient pressure\Nthen for the service providers to provide
Dialogue: 0,0:51:12.46,0:51:16.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as good, if not better, service over IPv6.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:16.95,0:51:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel your QQ.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:18.12,0:51:23.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I help you, your QQ. [laughs] 幫 QQ, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:23.85,0:51:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think really, it is up to the students,\Nthe clients, and the users of the Internet,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:28.81,0:51:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the last-mile providers to first build a useful\Nand usable IPv6 environment before we can
Dialogue: 0,0:51:35.40,0:51:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then demand the service providers to do so.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:38.57,0:51:41.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are seeing pretty good trends as of this\Nyear.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.95,0:51:47.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you come back next year, I think there\Nwill be sufficient demand from the user side
Dialogue: 0,0:51:47.50,0:51:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have the institutional Internet service\Nproviders to provide IPv6 also.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:56.07,0:52:02.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm technically out of time, so I'll just\Ntake one last question.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.23,0:52:08.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is my opinion of the European Union General\NData Protection Regulation, or the GDPR?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:08.94,0:52:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My opinion is that the GDPR is a much-needed\Nconversation that translates the idea of data
Dialogue: 0,0:52:16.80,0:52:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from what people will confuse with assets,\Nintellectual properties, which are leaky abstractions
Dialogue: 0,0:52:23.67,0:52:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't mean anything to a, what we call,\Ndata agency a relationship-based worldview.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:30.84,0:52:35.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, as a government institution, if\NI hold your data, this is a beginning of a
Dialogue: 0,0:52:35.37,0:52:40.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,relationship where you can ask what happens\Nto the data, who can update the data, so it
Dialogue: 0,0:52:40.21,0:52:41.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reflects the purpose.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:41.55,0:52:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I try to use the data in any other way\Nother than pure statistics, I need to check
Dialogue: 0,0:52:46.66,0:52:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with you first, so that you can know what's\Ngoing on, and provide the most up-to-date
Dialogue: 0,0:52:51.40,0:52:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:52.40,0:52:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of leaving just a shadow digital trail\Nthat's five years out of date, that results
Dialogue: 0,0:52:56.68,0:52:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in more bias.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:58.06,0:53:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think data agency, data as a relationship,\Nand also data accountability.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:03.87,0:53:08.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Accountability interestingly only translate\Nin Mandarin as three different words.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:08.39,0:53:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For people who ask for accountability, it's\Ncalled 問責.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:11.80,0:53:15.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For us who are held accountable, it's called\N當責.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:15.97,0:53:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A system within it that holds both sides together,\Nthe relationship, is called 課責機制,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:22.46,0:53:24.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or an accountability mechanism.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:24.49,0:53:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So 課責 is a relational concept.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:27.80,0:53:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not a one-time transactional concept.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:31.13,0:53:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think GDPR is a much-needed wake-up call\Nfor everybody to see data as a relationship,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:37.38,0:53:40.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as not as some digital asset or intellectual\Nproperty.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:40.70,0:53:41.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:41.70,0:53:41.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[applause]