0:00:16.310,0:00:18.360
>> [MUSIC] The[br]following program

0:00:18.360,0:00:20.265
is from NET,

0:00:20.265,0:00:23.910
the National Educational[br]Television Network.

0:00:24.010,0:00:27.575
>> Debate, James Baldwin,

0:00:27.575,0:00:29.525
versus William Buckley.

0:00:29.525,0:00:32.140
Subject, has the[br]American dream

0:00:32.140,0:00:33.740
been achieved[br]at the expense

0:00:33.740,0:00:35.280
of the American negro?

0:00:35.280,0:00:37.360
This debate was[br]held recently at

0:00:37.360,0:00:39.640
the Cambridge Union,[br]Cambridge University,

0:00:39.640,0:00:44.390
England, and was[br]recorded for use by NET.

0:00:44.390,0:00:45.800
>> Well, here we are in

0:00:45.800,0:00:49.120
the debating hall of[br]the Cambridge Union,

0:00:49.120,0:00:50.980
hundreds of[br]undergraduates and

0:00:50.980,0:00:53.660
myself waiting for[br]what could prove one

0:00:53.660,0:00:55.460
of the most[br]exciting debates in

0:00:55.460,0:00:59.200
the whole 150 years[br]of the Union history.

0:00:59.200,0:01:01.000
It really, I don't[br]think I've ever

0:01:01.000,0:01:03.120
seen the Union so[br]well attended.

0:01:03.120,0:01:04.320
They're undergraduates[br]everywhere.

0:01:04.320,0:01:05.100
They're on the benches,

0:01:05.100,0:01:06.860
and on the floor, but[br]in the galleries,

0:01:06.860,0:01:08.820
and there are a[br]lot more outside

0:01:08.820,0:01:10.540
clamoring to get in.

0:01:10.540,0:01:12.600
Well, the motion[br]that has drawn

0:01:12.600,0:01:15.480
this huge crowd[br]tonight is this that

0:01:15.480,0:01:17.240
the American[br]dream has been

0:01:17.240,0:01:18.980
achieved at the expense

0:01:18.980,0:01:20.900
of the American negro.

0:01:20.900,0:01:22.580
The debate will open with

0:01:22.580,0:01:24.140
two undergraduate[br]speakers,

0:01:24.140,0:01:25.220
one from each side.

0:01:25.220,0:01:26.280
And then we shall have

0:01:26.280,0:01:27.520
the first[br]distinguished guest,

0:01:27.520,0:01:28.920
Mr. James Baldwin,

0:01:28.920,0:01:30.800
the well known American

0:01:30.800,0:01:32.320
novelist who has achieved

0:01:32.320,0:01:33.980
a worldwide fame with

0:01:33.980,0:01:36.295
his novel,[br]Another Country.

0:01:36.295,0:01:38.440
Then opposing the[br]motion will be Mr.

0:01:38.440,0:01:40.820
William Buckley,[br]also an American,

0:01:40.820,0:01:43.060
very well known as[br]a conservative in

0:01:43.060,0:01:44.470
the United States[br]under stress

0:01:44.470,0:01:46.020
a conservative in[br]the American sense,

0:01:46.020,0:01:48.880
author of a book called[br]Up From Liberalism,

0:01:48.880,0:01:51.200
and editor of the[br]national review,

0:01:51.200,0:01:52.520
one of the earliest[br]supporters

0:01:52.520,0:01:54.155
of Senator Goldwater.

0:01:54.155,0:01:55.910
Well, this is the[br]setting of the debate,

0:01:55.910,0:01:57.110
and at any moment now,

0:01:57.110,0:01:59.290
the president[br]will be leading

0:01:59.290,0:02:01.810
in his officers and his[br]distinguished guests.

0:02:01.810,0:02:03.470
He'll take his chair, and

0:02:03.470,0:02:05.110
the debate will begin.

0:02:05.110,0:02:06.260
[APPLAUSE]

0:02:45.470,0:02:47.130
The motion before

0:02:47.130,0:02:48.410
the House tonight is

0:02:48.410,0:02:49.810
the American dream is at

0:02:49.810,0:02:51.750
the expense of the[br]American negro.

0:02:51.750,0:02:52.930
I propose of Mr. David

0:02:52.930,0:02:54.310
Haycock of[br]Pembroke College

0:02:54.310,0:02:55.630
and opposed Mr. Jeremy

0:02:55.630,0:02:57.330
Befort of[br]Emmanuel College.

0:02:57.330,0:02:59.315
Mr. James Baldwin[br]will speak first,

0:02:59.315,0:03:01.665
Mr. William Buckley[br]junior will speak forth.

0:03:01.665,0:03:02.940
Mr. Haycock is the heir

0:03:02.940,0:03:07.849
of the house.

0:03:07.849,0:03:15.780
[APPLAUSE]

0:03:15.780,0:03:17.560
>> Mr. President, sir, it

0:03:17.560,0:03:18.750
is the custom of[br]the House for

0:03:18.750,0:03:20.750
the first speaker[br]in any debate to

0:03:20.750,0:03:22.050
extend a formal welcome

0:03:22.050,0:03:23.570
to any visitors[br]to the house.

0:03:23.570,0:03:25.190
I can honestly[br]say, however,

0:03:25.190,0:03:26.670
that it is a very[br]great honor to be

0:03:26.670,0:03:28.290
able to welcome to the[br]house this evening,

0:03:28.290,0:03:31.250
Mr. William Buckley[br]and Mr. James Baldwin.

0:03:31.250,0:03:32.710
Mr. William Buckley has

0:03:32.710,0:03:34.330
the reputation of possibly

0:03:34.330,0:03:35.910
being the most[br]articulate conservative

0:03:35.910,0:03:37.750
in the United[br]States of America.

0:03:37.750,0:03:39.410
He was a graduate of Yale,

0:03:39.410,0:03:40.130
and he first gained

0:03:40.130,0:03:41.630
a reputation[br]for himself by

0:03:41.630,0:03:42.830
publishing a book entitled

0:03:42.830,0:03:44.930
God and Man and Yale.

0:03:46.300,0:03:48.070
[LAUGHTER] Since[br]then, he has

0:03:48.070,0:03:49.490
devoted himself[br]to the secular.

0:03:49.490,0:03:51.410
And this has included[br]Norman Mailer,

0:03:51.410,0:03:53.030
Kenneth Tyler and[br]Mary McCarthy,

0:03:53.030,0:03:54.730
and Fidel Castro,[br]none of whom

0:03:54.730,0:03:55.310
have come out of

0:03:55.310,0:03:57.630
their confrontations[br]unscathed.

0:03:57.630,0:03:59.110
[LAUGHTER] At present,

0:03:59.110,0:04:01.330
his principal[br]occupation is editing

0:04:01.330,0:04:02.770
a right wing newspaper in

0:04:02.770,0:04:03.590
the United States

0:04:03.590,0:04:05.330
entitle the[br]National Review.

0:04:05.330,0:04:06.770
Mr. James Baldwin is

0:04:06.770,0:04:07.890
hardly in need[br]of introduction.

0:04:07.890,0:04:09.570
His reputation,[br]both as a novelist,

0:04:09.570,0:04:10.590
and as an advocate of

0:04:10.590,0:04:12.990
civil rights is[br]international.

0:04:12.990,0:04:15.110
His third novel,[br]Another Country has

0:04:15.110,0:04:15.810
been published as

0:04:15.810,0:04:17.390
a paperback in[br]England today.

0:04:17.390,0:04:19.350
Mr. Baldwin and Mr.[br]Buckley are both

0:04:19.350,0:04:21.090
very welcome to the[br]house this evening.

0:04:21.090,0:04:22.250
[APPLAUSE]

0:04:40.260,0:04:42.540
Imagine, Mr. President,

0:04:42.540,0:04:43.900
a society which above

0:04:43.900,0:04:45.780
all values, freedom[br]and equality.

0:04:45.780,0:04:48.300
A society in which[br]artificial barriers to

0:04:48.300,0:04:50.920
fulfillment and achievement[br]are unheard of.

0:04:50.920,0:04:53.320
A society in which[br]a man may begin

0:04:53.320,0:04:54.820
his life as a[br]rail splitter

0:04:54.820,0:04:56.520
and end it as president,

0:04:56.520,0:04:58.500
a society in which all men

0:04:58.500,0:05:00.280
are free in every[br]sense of the word.

0:05:00.280,0:05:01.720
Free to live where[br]they choose,

0:05:01.720,0:05:03.380
free to work where[br]they choose,

0:05:03.380,0:05:04.540
equal in the[br]eyes of the law

0:05:04.540,0:05:05.940
and every public[br]authority,

0:05:05.940,0:05:07.320
and equal in the eyes of

0:05:07.320,0:05:09.040
their fellows, a society,

0:05:09.040,0:05:10.980
in fact, in which[br]intolerance and

0:05:10.980,0:05:13.460
prejudice are[br]meaningless terms.

0:05:13.460,0:05:15.540
Imagine, however,[br]Mr. President,

0:05:15.540,0:05:18.100
that a condition of[br]this utopia has been

0:05:18.100,0:05:19.380
the persistent and

0:05:19.380,0:05:21.180
quite deliberate[br]exploitation

0:05:21.180,0:05:23.360
of one ninth of[br]its inhabitants.

0:05:23.360,0:05:24.840
That one man in nine has

0:05:24.840,0:05:26.120
been denied those rights,

0:05:26.120,0:05:26.940
which the rest of

0:05:26.940,0:05:28.680
that society takes[br]for granted.

0:05:28.680,0:05:29.680
That one man in

0:05:29.680,0:05:31.240
nine does not have[br]the chance for

0:05:31.240,0:05:32.880
fulfillment or realization

0:05:32.880,0:05:34.020
of his innate[br]potentiality.

0:05:34.020,0:05:36.820
[NOISE] That one man[br]in nine cannot promise

0:05:36.820,0:05:38.640
his children a[br]secure future

0:05:38.640,0:05:40.480
and unlimited[br]opportunities.

0:05:40.480,0:05:42.140
Imagine this,[br]Mr. President,

0:05:42.140,0:05:43.980
and you have what[br]is in my opinion,

0:05:43.980,0:05:46.650
the bitter reality of[br]the American dream.

0:05:46.650,0:05:48.040
A few weeks ago,

0:05:48.040,0:05:49.900
Martin Luther[br]King had to hold

0:05:49.900,0:05:51.180
a non violent[br]demonstration in

0:05:51.180,0:05:53.040
Selma Alabama in his drive

0:05:53.040,0:05:54.700
to register negro voters.

0:05:54.700,0:05:56.740
By the end of the week[br]of his demonstrations,

0:05:56.740,0:05:58.820
he was able to write[br]quite accurately in

0:05:58.820,0:06:00.430
a national fund[br]raising letter

0:06:00.430,0:06:02.120
from Selma Alabama jail.

0:06:02.120,0:06:03.920
There are more[br]negroes in prison

0:06:03.920,0:06:06.260
with me than there are[br]on the voting rolls.

0:06:06.260,0:06:08.060
When King wrote[br]that letter,

0:06:08.060,0:06:11.705
335 out of 32,700

0:06:11.705,0:06:14.040
negroes in Dallas[br]had the vote,

0:06:14.040,0:06:17.140
1% of the Dallas[br]population.

0:06:17.140,0:06:19.770
After a mass march[br]to the courthouse,

0:06:19.770,0:06:23.450
237 negroes, King among[br]them were arrested.

0:06:23.450,0:06:25.550
The following day, 470

0:06:25.550,0:06:26.990
children who had deserted

0:06:26.990,0:06:28.770
their classrooms[br]to protest against

0:06:28.770,0:06:29.950
King's arrest were

0:06:29.950,0:06:31.950
charged with juvenile[br]delinquency.

0:06:31.950,0:06:34.420
[LAUGHTER] Thirty[br]six adults

0:06:34.420,0:06:36.050
on the same day[br]were charged with

0:06:36.050,0:06:37.810
contempt of court[br]for picketing

0:06:37.810,0:06:38.590
the courthouse while

0:06:38.590,0:06:40.450
state circuit court[br]was in session.

0:06:40.450,0:06:42.710
On the following[br]day, 111 people

0:06:42.710,0:06:44.270
were arrested on[br]the same charge,

0:06:44.270,0:06:45.870
despite their[br]claim that they

0:06:45.870,0:06:48.190
merely wanted to see[br]the voting registrar.

0:06:48.190,0:06:50.850
Four hundred students were

0:06:50.850,0:06:52.470
arrested and taken[br]to the armory,

0:06:52.470,0:06:54.150
where many of them[br]spent the night

0:06:54.150,0:06:55.810
on a cold cement floor.

0:06:55.810,0:06:57.610
The following day,[br]the demonstration

0:06:57.610,0:06:59.305
spread to Marion, Alabama.

0:06:59.305,0:07:01.935
In Marion, negroes[br]outnumber whites,

0:07:01.935,0:07:05.210
by 11 and a half thousands[br]to 6,000 people,

0:07:05.210,0:07:08.495
and yet only 300 are[br]registered to vote.

0:07:08.495,0:07:11.300
Negroes and Marion[br]were anxious to test

0:07:11.300,0:07:12.860
the public[br]accommodation section

0:07:12.860,0:07:14.300
of the civil rights law.

0:07:14.300,0:07:15.780
They entered a drug store,

0:07:15.780,0:07:17.020
and there they[br]were served with

0:07:17.020,0:07:18.800
coca cola laced with salt

0:07:18.800,0:07:20.860
and were told[br]that hamburgers

0:07:20.860,0:07:23.200
had risen to $5 each.

0:07:23.200,0:07:25.440
After the arrest[br]of 15 negroes

0:07:25.440,0:07:27.220
for protesting against[br]this treatment,

0:07:27.220,0:07:29.580
700 negroes boycotted[br]their classes

0:07:29.580,0:07:31.060
next day and marched

0:07:31.060,0:07:32.840
in orderly fashion[br]to the jail.

0:07:32.840,0:07:34.860
There, they sang[br]civil rights songs,

0:07:34.860,0:07:36.760
until they were warned by

0:07:36.760,0:07:38.520
a state trooper[br]that they would

0:07:38.520,0:07:40.460
be arrested if they[br]sang one more song.

0:07:40.460,0:07:42.100
Of course, they[br]sang another song,

0:07:42.100,0:07:44.535
and of course, all[br]700 were arrested.

0:07:44.535,0:07:46.350
American Society has felt

0:07:46.350,0:07:47.770
fit to use negro labor.

0:07:47.770,0:07:49.490
It has felt fit to use

0:07:49.490,0:07:51.435
the blood of the negro[br]in two world wars.

0:07:51.435,0:07:53.410
It felt fit to[br]listen to his music.

0:07:53.410,0:07:55.470
It has felt fit to[br]laugh at his jokes.

0:07:55.470,0:07:57.090
And yet, as far[br]as I'm concerned,

0:07:57.090,0:07:58.610
it has never felt fit to

0:07:58.610,0:08:00.510
give the American[br]negro a fair deal.

0:08:00.510,0:08:02.350
And for this reason,[br]Mr. President,

0:08:02.350,0:08:04.590
I would beg leave to[br]propose the motion that

0:08:04.590,0:08:05.790
the American dream is at

0:08:05.790,0:08:08.840
the expense of the[br]American negro. [APPLAUSE]

0:08:18.090,0:08:20.780
>> I now call Mr.[br]Jeremy Burford of

0:08:20.780,0:08:22.670
Emmanuel College to[br]oppose the motion.

0:08:22.670,0:08:23.860
[APPLAUSE]

0:08:28.750,0:08:32.440
>> Now I have Mr. Jeremy[br]Burford of Emmanuel College,

0:08:32.440,0:08:32.780
who is

0:08:32.780,0:08:36.130
the first undergraduate[br]opposing the motion.

0:08:36.710,0:08:40.690
>> James Baldwin is[br]well known as one of

0:08:40.690,0:08:43.030
the most vivid and[br]articulate writers

0:08:43.030,0:08:45.270
about the negro[br]problem in America.

0:08:45.270,0:08:47.710
Mr. Baldwin had a[br]difficult childhood,

0:08:47.710,0:08:50.430
and he has personally[br]himself suffered

0:08:50.430,0:08:52.330
discrimination[br]and ill treatment

0:08:52.330,0:08:53.890
in the South of America.

0:08:53.890,0:08:58.150
And I would like to[br]say at this time,

0:08:58.150,0:09:00.890
that it is not the[br]purpose of this side of

0:09:00.890,0:09:04.570
the House to condone[br]that in any way at all.

0:09:04.570,0:09:09.030
It is not our purpose[br]to oppose civil rights.

0:09:09.030,0:09:13.260
It is our purpose to[br]oppose this motion.

0:09:13.260,0:09:18.970
[LAUGHTER] Thank you, sir.

0:09:18.970,0:09:20.530
Come and collect[br]your fee afterwards.

0:09:20.530,0:09:28.360
[LAUGHTER][br][APPLAUSE] This side

0:09:28.360,0:09:30.140
of the House denies that

0:09:30.140,0:09:32.240
the American dream[br]has in any way been

0:09:32.240,0:09:34.560
helped by this[br]undoubted inequality

0:09:34.560,0:09:36.420
and suffering[br]of the negro.

0:09:36.420,0:09:37.880
We maintain that, in fact,

0:09:37.880,0:09:40.360
it has hindered the[br]American dream.

0:09:40.360,0:09:42.400
And if there had[br]been equity,

0:09:42.400,0:09:43.120
if there had been

0:09:43.120,0:09:44.740
true freedom of[br]opportunity,

0:09:44.740,0:09:46.240
the American dream[br]would be very

0:09:46.240,0:09:48.260
much more advanced[br]than it is now.

0:09:48.260,0:09:49.900
If the American dream has

0:09:49.900,0:09:51.940
made any progress,[br]and I think it has,

0:09:51.940,0:09:54.980
it has been made in[br]spite of the suffering

0:09:54.980,0:09:56.435
and inequality[br]of the American

0:09:56.435,0:09:58.775
negro and not[br]because of it.

0:09:58.775,0:10:02.170
Now, it is also implied[br]from this motion that

0:10:02.170,0:10:04.450
the American dream[br]is encouraging

0:10:04.450,0:10:06.130
and worsening[br]the suffering

0:10:06.130,0:10:07.510
of the American negro.

0:10:07.510,0:10:10.320
This is emphatically[br]not the case.

0:10:10.320,0:10:12.270
The American dream,

0:10:12.270,0:10:14.470
the American[br]economic prosperity

0:10:14.470,0:10:16.330
and respect for[br]civil liberties

0:10:16.330,0:10:19.050
has been the main factor[br]in bringing about

0:10:19.050,0:10:21.090
the undoubted[br]improvement in

0:10:21.090,0:10:22.710
race relations in America

0:10:22.710,0:10:24.430
in the last 20 years.

0:10:24.430,0:10:26.770
And Professor Arnold Rose,

0:10:26.770,0:10:28.950
who is the author of[br]the Negro in America,

0:10:28.950,0:10:29.590
which is perhaps

0:10:29.590,0:10:31.810
the definitive work[br]on the subject,

0:10:31.810,0:10:34.390
who is also a[br]contributor to

0:10:34.390,0:10:36.610
what was called a[br]freedom pamphlet.

0:10:36.610,0:10:37.610
So I should imagine that

0:10:37.610,0:10:39.210
if he has any bias at all,

0:10:39.210,0:10:40.745
it is in favor[br]of the negro.

0:10:40.745,0:10:44.020
He said that this[br]improvement in

0:10:44.020,0:10:45.740
race relations[br]will be seen

0:10:45.740,0:10:48.140
in years to come as[br]remarkably quick,

0:10:48.140,0:10:51.320
and he has put it down[br]to three main causes,

0:10:51.320,0:10:53.360
increased[br]industrialization

0:10:53.360,0:10:54.940
and technical advance,

0:10:54.940,0:10:56.900
the increased[br]social mobility

0:10:56.900,0:10:58.040
of the American people,

0:10:58.040,0:11:00.100
and the economic[br]prosperity.

0:11:00.100,0:11:01.940
And I would put[br]it to this house

0:11:01.940,0:11:04.120
that that[br]industrialization and

0:11:04.120,0:11:06.200
economic prosperity[br]are two of

0:11:06.200,0:11:09.000
the main ingredients[br]of the American dream.

0:11:09.000,0:11:10.980
And at the same[br]time, again,

0:11:10.980,0:11:12.790
I do not want to say that

0:11:12.790,0:11:14.780
the negro in America

0:11:14.780,0:11:17.160
is treated fairly,[br]but at the same time,

0:11:17.160,0:11:18.820
the average per capita

0:11:18.820,0:11:21.300
income of negroes[br]in America is

0:11:21.300,0:11:23.380
exactly the same[br]as the average

0:11:23.380,0:11:25.780
per capita income of[br]people in Great Britain.

0:11:25.780,0:11:26.060
Now,

0:11:26.060,0:11:30.780
[LAUGHTER] I found that[br]absolutely amazing,

0:11:30.780,0:11:32.830
and [LAUGHTER][br]I understand

0:11:33.870,0:11:36.230
that some of[br]you do as well,

0:11:36.230,0:11:38.190
so I have got the[br]reference here from

0:11:38.190,0:11:39.730
the United States News and

0:11:39.730,0:11:41.870
World Report of[br]July the 22nd,

0:11:41.870,0:11:44.350
1963, in which[br]it points out,

0:11:44.350,0:11:46.130
this will have to be[br]the last interruption

0:11:46.130,0:11:47.625
I take as time is running.

0:11:47.625,0:11:49.770
>> Mr. President, on a[br]point of information,

0:11:49.770,0:11:50.930
is the speaker talking of

0:11:50.930,0:11:53.030
real income or money[br]income? [APPLAUSE]

0:11:53.030,0:11:59.750
>> I'm talking[br]of money income.

0:11:59.750,0:12:01.590
I would not wish[br]to disguise that.

0:12:01.590,0:12:04.510
I would also say that[br]in terms of this,

0:12:04.510,0:12:06.470
there are only[br]five countries

0:12:06.470,0:12:07.210
in the world where

0:12:07.210,0:12:08.690
the income is higher than

0:12:08.690,0:12:10.170
that of the[br]American negro,

0:12:10.170,0:12:11.830
and they do not[br]include countries like

0:12:11.830,0:12:14.730
West Germany and[br]France and Japan.

0:12:14.730,0:12:17.160
Now, there are in America

0:12:17.160,0:12:19.965
35 negro millionaires.

0:12:19.965,0:12:21.840
There are negro $6,000

0:12:21.840,0:12:23.030
[inaudible][br][LAUGHTER] Now,

0:12:23.030,0:12:24.870
I do not by saying this,

0:12:24.870,0:12:26.190
wish to emphasize but

0:12:26.190,0:12:27.835
the negros fairly treated,

0:12:27.835,0:12:29.750
I merely wish to[br]try and convey

0:12:29.750,0:12:32.710
a more realistic and[br]objective account

0:12:32.710,0:12:35.585
of the situation[br]of the negro.

0:12:35.585,0:12:38.015
I agree that there are

0:12:38.015,0:12:40.100
negroes who are very poor,

0:12:40.100,0:12:41.150
indeed [LAUGHTER] such as

0:12:41.150,0:12:45.330
the old gentleman[br]in the south,

0:12:45.330,0:12:48.870
who was talking about

0:12:48.870,0:12:50.450
some of his[br]wealthier brethren,

0:12:50.450,0:12:51.810
and he was saying, yes,

0:12:51.810,0:12:54.010
some of these[br]rich negroes,

0:12:54.010,0:12:55.270
they put on airs day like

0:12:55.270,0:12:56.630
the bottom figure[br]of a fraction.

0:12:56.630,0:12:57.690
The bigger they try to be,

0:12:57.690,0:12:59.450
the smaller they[br]really are.

0:12:59.450,0:13:01.530
I would repeat,[br]Mr. President,

0:13:01.530,0:13:03.670
sir, in the last[br]minute I have,

0:13:03.670,0:13:05.510
that this debate[br]is not whether

0:13:05.510,0:13:06.910
civil rights[br]should be extended

0:13:06.910,0:13:08.370
to American[br]negroes or not.

0:13:08.370,0:13:10.710
If it were, it would[br]be a very easy motion

0:13:10.710,0:13:12.130
to argue for[br]and a very easy

0:13:12.130,0:13:13.640
motion to vote for.

0:13:13.640,0:13:17.290
The debate tonight[br]concerns whether

0:13:17.290,0:13:18.670
the American dream is at

0:13:18.670,0:13:20.830
the expense of the[br]American negro.

0:13:20.830,0:13:22.450
That is whether[br]the American negro

0:13:22.450,0:13:24.350
has paid for the[br]American dream with

0:13:24.350,0:13:25.870
his suffering or whether

0:13:25.870,0:13:27.230
the American dream has

0:13:27.230,0:13:28.950
furthered negro[br]inequality.

0:13:28.950,0:13:31.630
And I would deny both[br]those two precepts.

0:13:31.630,0:13:33.910
I would say that[br]negro inequality

0:13:33.910,0:13:35.870
has hindered the[br]American dream.

0:13:35.870,0:13:37.070
And I would say that the

0:13:37.070,0:13:38.910
American dream has[br]been very important

0:13:38.910,0:13:40.890
indeed in furthering[br]civil rights

0:13:40.890,0:13:42.090
and in furthering freedom

0:13:42.090,0:13:43.280
for the American negro.

0:13:43.280,0:13:44.610
Mr. President, sir, I

0:13:44.610,0:13:46.910
beg to oppose the[br]motion. [APPLAUSE]

0:13:57.350,0:13:59.820
>> It is now with[br]very great pleasure

0:13:59.820,0:14:01.060
and a very great[br]sense of honor

0:14:01.060,0:14:02.520
that I called Mr.[br]James Baldwin

0:14:02.520,0:14:04.940
to speak third to this[br]motion. [APPLAUSE]

0:14:11.360,0:14:14.380
>> Now we have Mr.[br]James Baldwin,

0:14:14.380,0:14:16.920
the star of the evening,

0:14:16.920,0:14:21.760
who has been sitting[br]listening attentively,

0:14:21.760,0:14:23.380
getting a wonderful[br]reception

0:14:23.380,0:14:25.440
here in the[br]Cambridge Union.

0:14:25.440,0:14:28.940
Tremendous enthusiasm[br]from all sides

0:14:28.940,0:14:30.720
of the house to[br]Mr. Baldwin,

0:14:30.720,0:14:33.120
who has been listening[br]to the arguments.

0:14:33.120,0:14:34.740
Now we'll bring the[br]voice of actual

0:14:34.740,0:14:35.850
experience to the debate.

0:14:35.850,0:14:37.670
>> Good evening.[br][LAUGHTER]

0:14:42.040,0:14:45.875
I find myself, not[br]for the first time

0:14:45.875,0:14:51.660
and the position[br]of a Jeremiah.

0:14:53.080,0:14:55.340
For example, I[br]don't disagree

0:14:55.340,0:14:56.390
with Mr. Burford that

0:14:56.390,0:15:01.160
the inequality suffered by

0:15:01.160,0:15:02.570
the American Negro[br]population of

0:15:02.570,0:15:03.650
the United States has

0:15:03.650,0:15:06.035
hindered the[br]American dream.

0:15:06.035,0:15:08.630
Indeed, it has. I quarrel

0:15:08.630,0:15:10.760
with some other[br]things he has to say.

0:15:10.760,0:15:14.900
The other deeper[br]element of

0:15:14.900,0:15:20.820
a certain awkwardness[br]I feel has to do with,

0:15:22.720,0:15:25.220
it has to do[br]with one's point

0:15:25.220,0:15:26.870
of view, I had to[br]put it that way.

0:15:26.870,0:15:30.170
One sense, one[br]system of reality,

0:15:30.170,0:15:31.610
it would seem to me

0:15:31.610,0:15:33.110
the proposition[br]before the house,

0:15:33.110,0:15:34.400
if I put it that way, is

0:15:34.400,0:15:36.050
the American dream at

0:15:36.050,0:15:37.250
the expense of the[br]American Negro,

0:15:37.250,0:15:38.645
or the American dream is

0:15:38.645,0:15:40.760
at the expense of[br]the American Negro?

0:15:40.760,0:15:44.615
Is a question[br]hideously loaded,

0:15:44.615,0:15:47.150
and that one's response[br]to that question,

0:15:47.150,0:15:49.145
or one's reaction[br]to that question,

0:15:49.145,0:15:51.020
has it depend on

0:15:51.020,0:15:52.940
effect on where you

0:15:52.940,0:15:54.680
find yourself[br]in the world,

0:15:54.680,0:15:57.380
what your sense[br]of reality is,

0:15:57.380,0:15:59.825
what your system[br]of reality is.

0:15:59.825,0:16:04.160
That is, it depends on[br]assumptions which we

0:16:04.160,0:16:06.770
hold so deeply as

0:16:06.770,0:16:08.915
to be scarcely[br]aware of them.

0:16:08.915,0:16:11.090
White South African or

0:16:11.090,0:16:12.380
Mississippi Share crop

0:16:12.380,0:16:13.775
or Mississippi Sheriff,

0:16:13.775,0:16:15.290
or a Frenchman[br]driven out of

0:16:15.290,0:16:19.145
Algeria all[br]have at bottom,

0:16:19.145,0:16:21.050
a system of reality

0:16:21.050,0:16:24.050
which compels them[br]to, for example,

0:16:24.050,0:16:26.435
in the case of the French[br]exile from Algeria,

0:16:26.435,0:16:27.860
to defend French reasons

0:16:27.860,0:16:29.570
for having ruled Algeria.

0:16:29.570,0:16:32.405
The Mississippi or[br]Alabama Sheriff,

0:16:32.405,0:16:34.400
who really does believe[br]when he's facing

0:16:34.400,0:16:36.500
a Negro boy or girl,[br]that this woman,

0:16:36.500,0:16:38.180
this man, this child,

0:16:38.180,0:16:40.520
must be insane to

0:16:40.520,0:16:41.900
attack the system to which

0:16:41.900,0:16:43.925
he owes his[br]entire identity.

0:16:43.925,0:16:46.115
Of course, for[br]such a person,

0:16:46.115,0:16:47.420
the proposition of which

0:16:47.420,0:16:48.080
which we're trying to

0:16:48.080,0:16:50.435
discuss here tonight[br]does not exist.

0:16:50.435,0:16:52.980
And on the other hand,

0:16:56.290,0:16:59.300
I have to speak as

0:16:59.300,0:17:03.200
one other people who've[br]been most attacked

0:17:03.200,0:17:06.460
by what they must[br]now here call the

0:17:06.460,0:17:10.255
Western or the European[br]system of reality.

0:17:10.255,0:17:13.960
What white people[br]in the world,

0:17:13.960,0:17:15.580
the of white supremacy,

0:17:15.580,0:17:18.315
I hate to say it here[br]comes from Europe.

0:17:18.315,0:17:20.525
That's how it[br]got to America.

0:17:20.525,0:17:24.290
Beneath then, whatever[br]one's reaction

0:17:24.290,0:17:26.270
to this proposition[br]is has to

0:17:26.270,0:17:28.730
be the question[br]or whether or

0:17:28.730,0:17:32.000
not civilizations can[br]be considered as such,

0:17:32.000,0:17:36.050
equal or whether one[br]civilization has

0:17:36.050,0:17:38.540
the right to overtake and

0:17:38.540,0:17:41.960
subjugate and in fact[br]to destroy another.

0:17:41.960,0:17:45.170
Now, what happens[br]when that happens,

0:17:45.170,0:17:48.740
leaving aside all[br]the physical facts

0:17:48.740,0:17:50.060
which one can quote,

0:17:50.060,0:17:53.330
leaving aside[br]rape or murder,

0:17:53.330,0:17:54.470
leaving aside the bloody

0:17:54.470,0:17:56.975
catalog of oppression,

0:17:56.975,0:17:58.520
which we are in one way

0:17:58.520,0:18:00.335
too familiar with already.

0:18:00.335,0:18:01.970
What this does to the

0:18:01.970,0:18:04.160
subjugated, the[br]most private,

0:18:04.160,0:18:05.420
the most serious thing

0:18:05.420,0:18:07.100
this does to[br]the subjugated,

0:18:07.100,0:18:09.755
is to destroy his[br]sense of reality.

0:18:09.755,0:18:12.050
It destroys, for example,

0:18:12.050,0:18:14.855
his father's[br]authority over him.

0:18:14.855,0:18:16.490
His father can[br]no longer tell

0:18:16.490,0:18:17.945
him anything because[br]the past has

0:18:17.945,0:18:20.030
disappeared and his father

0:18:20.030,0:18:22.280
has no power in the world.

0:18:22.280,0:18:25.355
This means in the case[br]of an American Negro,

0:18:25.355,0:18:28.250
born in that[br]glittering republic,

0:18:28.250,0:18:30.560
at the moment[br]you are born,

0:18:30.560,0:18:32.495
since you don't[br]know any better.

0:18:32.495,0:18:36.650
Every stick in stone and[br]every face is white,

0:18:36.650,0:18:38.930
and since you have not[br]yet seen a mirror,

0:18:38.930,0:18:41.150
you suppose that[br]you are too.

0:18:41.150,0:18:43.730
It comes as a great shock

0:18:43.730,0:18:45.860
around the age[br]of five or six

0:18:45.860,0:18:48.020
or seven to discover

0:18:48.020,0:18:49.100
the flag to which you have

0:18:49.100,0:18:50.435
pledged allegiance,

0:18:50.435,0:18:52.295
along with everybody else,

0:18:52.295,0:18:54.950
as not pledge[br]allegiance to you.

0:18:54.950,0:18:56.510
It comes as a[br]great shock to

0:18:56.510,0:18:57.890
discover that Gary[br]Cooper killing

0:18:57.890,0:18:59.210
off the Indians[br]when you were

0:18:59.210,0:19:01.400
rooting for Gary Cooper,

0:19:01.400,0:19:05.530
that the Indians[br]were you. [LAUGHTER]

0:19:05.530,0:19:07.180
It comes as a great shock

0:19:07.180,0:19:08.800
to discover that[br]the country,

0:19:08.800,0:19:10.705
which is your birthplace

0:19:10.705,0:19:12.890
and to which you[br]owe your life and

0:19:12.890,0:19:15.125
your identity has not

0:19:15.125,0:19:17.240
in its whole[br]system of reality,

0:19:17.240,0:19:20.150
evolved any place for you.

0:19:20.150,0:19:23.840
The disaffection,[br]the demoralization,

0:19:23.840,0:19:26.870
and the gap between[br]one person and

0:19:26.870,0:19:29.120
another only on the basis

0:19:29.120,0:19:30.170
of the color of[br]their skins,

0:19:30.170,0:19:34.080
begins there[br]and accelerates

0:19:34.080,0:19:36.280
throughout a[br]whole lifetime.

0:19:36.280,0:19:38.635
So the presently you[br]realize you're 30,

0:19:38.635,0:19:42.550
and are having a terrible[br]time managing to

0:19:42.550,0:19:49.400
trust your countrymen[br]By the time you are 30,

0:19:49.400,0:19:53.930
you have been through[br]a certain mill,

0:19:53.930,0:19:55.850
and the most[br]serious effect

0:19:55.850,0:19:56.450
of the mill you've

0:19:56.450,0:19:58.490
been through is again,

0:19:58.490,0:20:00.395
not the catalogue[br]of disaster.

0:20:00.395,0:20:03.335
The policemen,[br]the taxi drivers,

0:20:03.335,0:20:05.690
the waiters, the landlady,

0:20:05.690,0:20:08.165
the landlord, the banks,

0:20:08.165,0:20:09.560
the insurance companies,

0:20:09.560,0:20:11.585
the millions of details,

0:20:11.585,0:20:14.210
24 hours of every day,

0:20:14.210,0:20:15.680
which spell out to

0:20:15.680,0:20:18.890
you that you are a[br]worthless human being.

0:20:18.890,0:20:22.010
It is not that. Is by

0:20:22.010,0:20:23.420
that time you've[br]begun to see it

0:20:23.420,0:20:25.340
happening in[br]your daughter or

0:20:25.340,0:20:28.850
your son or your[br]niece or your nephew.

0:20:28.850,0:20:30.590
You are 30 by now,

0:20:30.590,0:20:32.225
and nothing you have done

0:20:32.225,0:20:35.150
has helped to[br]escape the trap.

0:20:35.150,0:20:37.280
But what is[br]worse than that

0:20:37.280,0:20:39.050
is that nothing[br]you have done,

0:20:39.050,0:20:41.510
and as far as you can[br]tell nothing you can

0:20:41.510,0:20:45.710
do will save your son or

0:20:45.710,0:20:49.175
your daughter from[br]meeting the same disaster

0:20:49.175,0:20:54.110
and not impossibly[br]coming to the same end.

0:20:54.110,0:20:59.495
Now, we're speaking about

0:20:59.495,0:21:04.310
expense and I suppose

0:21:04.310,0:21:05.120
there are several ways

0:21:05.120,0:21:07.430
to address oneself, too.

0:21:07.430,0:21:10.190
Some attempt to define

0:21:10.190,0:21:12.900
what that word means here.

0:21:14.050,0:21:17.090
Let me put it this way,

0:21:17.090,0:21:21.125
that from a very[br]literal point of view,

0:21:21.125,0:21:24.350
the harbors and[br]the ports and

0:21:24.350,0:21:28.350
the railroads[br]of the country.

0:21:29.170,0:21:31.655
The economy,

0:21:31.655,0:21:36.845
especially of the[br]southern states

0:21:36.845,0:21:40.310
could not conceivably[br]be what it has

0:21:40.310,0:21:43.400
become if they had

0:21:43.400,0:21:45.590
not had and do[br]not still have,

0:21:45.590,0:21:47.015
indeed, and for so long,

0:21:47.015,0:21:52.460
so many generations[br]cheap labor.

0:21:52.460,0:21:56.075
I am stating[br]very seriously,

0:21:56.075,0:21:59.250
and this is not[br]an overstatement.

0:21:59.740,0:22:03.150
That I picked the coffee,

0:22:03.430,0:22:09.590
and I carried it to[br]market and I built

0:22:09.590,0:22:13.190
the railroad under

0:22:13.190,0:22:20.510
someone else's[br]whip for nothing.

0:22:20.510,0:22:25.460
The southern Alagachi[br]which has until today,

0:22:25.460,0:22:28.490
so much power in[br]Washington, and therefore,

0:22:28.490,0:22:30.305
some power in the world

0:22:30.305,0:22:32.150
was created by[br]my labor and

0:22:32.150,0:22:35.540
my sweat and the violation

0:22:35.540,0:22:39.065
of my women and the[br]murder of my children.

0:22:39.065,0:22:44.300
This in the land of[br]the free and the home

0:22:44.300,0:22:46.910
of the brave and

0:22:46.910,0:22:48.770
no one can challenge[br]that statement,

0:22:48.770,0:22:51.360
it is a matter of[br]historical record.

0:22:52.030,0:22:57.215
In another way this dream,

0:22:57.215,0:22:58.940
and we'll get[br]to the dream in

0:22:58.940,0:23:01.910
a moment is at

0:23:01.910,0:23:04.700
the expense of the[br]American Negro.

0:23:04.700,0:23:05.990
You watch this in

0:23:05.990,0:23:08.400
the Deep South[br]in great relief,

0:23:08.440,0:23:11.760
but not only in[br]the Deep South.

0:23:12.400,0:23:14.825
In the Deep South,

0:23:14.825,0:23:17.210
you are dealing with a[br]sheriff or landlord or

0:23:17.210,0:23:18.260
landlady or the girl of

0:23:18.260,0:23:20.430
the Western Union desk.

0:23:21.640,0:23:24.900
And she doesn't know

0:23:25.270,0:23:28.955
quite who she's[br]dealing with,

0:23:28.955,0:23:30.440
by which I mean that

0:23:30.440,0:23:32.300
if you're not[br]part of the town,

0:23:32.300,0:23:36.080
and if you are a[br]northern nigger,

0:23:36.080,0:23:38.945
it shows in[br]millions of ways.

0:23:38.945,0:23:41.030
So she simply knows

0:23:41.030,0:23:42.950
that it's an[br]unknown quantity,

0:23:42.950,0:23:44.990
and she wants to have[br]nothing to do with it.

0:23:44.990,0:23:46.400
So she won't talk to you,

0:23:46.400,0:23:47.030
you have to wait for

0:23:47.030,0:23:48.365
a while to get[br]your telegram.

0:23:48.365,0:23:50.060
We all know this,[br]we've been through it,

0:23:50.060,0:23:52.175
and by the time you[br]get to be a man,

0:23:52.175,0:23:54.570
it's very easy[br]to deal with.

0:23:54.570,0:23:56.620
But what is happening[br]in the poor woman,

0:23:56.620,0:24:01.525
the poor man's[br]mind is this.

0:24:01.525,0:24:04.405
They have been[br]raised to believe,

0:24:04.405,0:24:07.230
and by now they[br]helplessly believe,

0:24:07.230,0:24:10.595
no matter how terrible[br]their lives may be,

0:24:10.595,0:24:13.100
and their lives have[br]been quite terrible.

0:24:13.100,0:24:15.605
No matter how[br]far they fall,

0:24:15.605,0:24:17.930
no matter what disaster[br]overtakes them,

0:24:17.930,0:24:19.190
they have one enormous

0:24:19.190,0:24:20.570
knowledge and consolation,

0:24:20.570,0:24:22.895
which is like a[br]heavenly revelation,

0:24:22.895,0:24:25.835
at least they[br]are not black.

0:24:25.835,0:24:29.750
Now, I suggest that of

0:24:29.750,0:24:32.780
all the terrible[br]things that

0:24:32.780,0:24:34.490
can happen to[br]a human being

0:24:34.490,0:24:36.200
that is one of the worst.

0:24:36.200,0:24:37.910
I suggest that what[br]has happened to

0:24:37.910,0:24:40.940
white southerners[br]is in some ways,

0:24:40.940,0:24:42.695
after all, much worse

0:24:42.695,0:24:46.110
than what has happened[br]to Negroes there.

0:24:46.390,0:24:51.845
Because Sheriff[br]Clark in Selma,

0:24:51.845,0:24:56.795
Alabama, cannot[br]be considered,

0:24:56.795,0:25:00.845
no one can be dismissed[br]as a total monster.

0:25:00.845,0:25:02.840
I'm sure he loves his[br]wife, his children.

0:25:02.840,0:25:04.115
I'm sure that[br][LAUGHTER] he

0:25:04.115,0:25:06.720
likes to get drunk.

0:25:07.570,0:25:10.070
After all, one's[br]got to assume and

0:25:10.070,0:25:12.630
he is visibly[br]a man like me.

0:25:13.320,0:25:16.960
He doesn't know[br]what drives

0:25:16.960,0:25:20.390
him to use the club,

0:25:20.390,0:25:21.935
to menace with the gun,

0:25:21.935,0:25:23.690
and to use the[br]cattle prod.

0:25:23.690,0:25:25.040
Something awful must have

0:25:25.040,0:25:26.690
happened to a human being,

0:25:26.690,0:25:28.580
to be able to put[br]a cattle prod

0:25:28.580,0:25:30.740
against a woman's[br]breast, for example.

0:25:30.740,0:25:33.095
What happens to the[br]woman is ghastly.

0:25:33.095,0:25:35.300
What happens to the[br]man who does it

0:25:35.300,0:25:38.885
is in some ways[br]much much worse.

0:25:38.885,0:25:41.645
This is being[br]done after all.

0:25:41.645,0:25:46.190
Not 100 years[br]ago, but in 1965,

0:25:46.190,0:25:48.140
in a country which[br]is blessed with

0:25:48.140,0:25:50.750
what we call prosperity,

0:25:50.750,0:25:53.750
where do you want to[br]examine too closely?

0:25:53.750,0:25:57.815
With a certain[br]social coherence,

0:25:57.815,0:25:59.330
which calls itself a

0:25:59.330,0:26:00.440
civilized nation and which

0:26:00.440,0:26:04.595
espouses the notion[br]of the freedom

0:26:04.595,0:26:08.600
of the world and

0:26:08.600,0:26:10.160
it is perfectly true[br]from the point of view

0:26:10.160,0:26:12.635
now simply of an[br]American Negro.

0:26:12.635,0:26:15.755
Any American Negro[br]watching this,

0:26:15.755,0:26:17.405
no matter where he is,

0:26:17.405,0:26:18.860
from the vantage[br]point of Holland,

0:26:18.860,0:26:20.660
which is another[br]terrible place,

0:26:20.660,0:26:22.775
has to say to himself,

0:26:22.775,0:26:24.530
in spite of what the[br]government says,

0:26:24.530,0:26:25.490
the government[br]says, we can't

0:26:25.490,0:26:27.510
do anything about it.

0:26:27.910,0:26:30.665
But those are white[br]people being murdered

0:26:30.665,0:26:33.290
in Mississippi work farms,

0:26:33.290,0:26:35.015
being carried off to jail,

0:26:35.015,0:26:36.440
those are white children,

0:26:36.440,0:26:38.300
running up and[br]down the streets,

0:26:38.300,0:26:40.100
the government[br]would find some way

0:26:40.100,0:26:41.705
of doing something[br]about it.

0:26:41.705,0:26:44.030
We have a Civil[br]Rights Bill now.

0:26:44.030,0:26:46.400
We had an amendment,[br]the 15th Amendment

0:26:46.400,0:26:48.230
nearly 100 years ago.

0:26:48.230,0:26:49.850
I hate to sound again like

0:26:49.850,0:26:51.260
an old Testament prophet

0:26:51.260,0:26:53.585
but if the amendment[br]was not honored then,

0:26:53.585,0:26:55.160
I don't have any[br]reason for believing

0:26:55.160,0:26:57.815
the Civil Rights Bill[br]will be honored now.

0:26:57.815,0:27:00.305
And after all,[br]one's been there,

0:27:00.305,0:27:01.715
since before,

0:27:01.715,0:27:03.560
a lot of other[br]people got there.

0:27:03.560,0:27:05.000
If one has got

0:27:05.000,0:27:09.140
to prove one's[br]title to the land,

0:27:09.140,0:27:11.975
isn't 400 years enough?

0:27:11.975,0:27:15.600
400 years, at[br]least three wars.

0:27:15.910,0:27:18.290
The American[br]soil is full of

0:27:18.290,0:27:20.705
the corpses of[br]my ancestors.

0:27:20.705,0:27:23.840
Why is my freedom[br]or my citizenship,

0:27:23.840,0:27:25.490
or my right to live there,

0:27:25.490,0:27:28.820
how is it conceivably[br]a question now?

0:27:28.820,0:27:32.180
And I suggest further[br]that in the same way,

0:27:32.180,0:27:34.250
the moral life of

0:27:34.250,0:27:35.960
Alabama Sheriffs and

0:27:35.960,0:27:38.960
poor Alabama white ladies,

0:27:38.960,0:27:40.610
their moral[br]lives have been

0:27:40.610,0:27:43.310
destroyed by the[br]plague called color.

0:27:43.310,0:27:45.200
That the American sense

0:27:45.200,0:27:48.020
of reality has been[br]corrupted by it.

0:27:48.020,0:27:51.050
At the risk of[br]sounding excesses.

0:27:51.050,0:27:53.000
What I always felt when

0:27:53.000,0:27:54.425
I finally left[br]the country.

0:27:54.425,0:27:57.350
Found myself abroad[br]in other places,

0:27:57.350,0:28:01.010
and watched Americans[br]abroad and these

0:28:01.010,0:28:04.490
are my countrymen and[br]I do care about them.

0:28:04.490,0:28:06.680
And even if I didn't,

0:28:06.680,0:28:09.170
there is something[br]between us,

0:28:09.170,0:28:10.925
we have the[br]same shorthand.

0:28:10.925,0:28:13.100
I know, when

0:28:13.100,0:28:14.840
I look at a girl or a[br]boy from Tennessee,

0:28:14.840,0:28:16.850
where they came[br]from in Tennessee,

0:28:16.850,0:28:18.500
and what that means.

0:28:18.500,0:28:20.450
No Englishman knows[br]that, no Frenchman,

0:28:20.450,0:28:21.860
no one in the world[br]knows that except

0:28:21.860,0:28:22.700
another black man who

0:28:22.700,0:28:24.545
comes from the same place.

0:28:24.545,0:28:28.730
The one watches[br]these lonely people

0:28:28.730,0:28:32.360
denying the only[br]kin they have.

0:28:32.360,0:28:34.340
We talk about integration

0:28:34.340,0:28:35.180
in America as though it

0:28:35.180,0:28:37.985
was some great[br]new conundrum.

0:28:37.985,0:28:39.860
The Parliament in America,[br]though we've been

0:28:39.860,0:28:42.110
integrated for[br]very long time.

0:28:42.110,0:28:43.520
Put me next to any

0:28:43.520,0:28:45.530
African and you[br]will see what I

0:28:45.530,0:28:49.740
mean and my grandmother[br]was not a rapist.

0:28:49.750,0:28:53.220
What we are not facing

0:28:54.010,0:28:58.025
is the results of[br]what we've done.

0:28:58.025,0:29:01.580
What one brags the[br]American people to do for

0:29:01.580,0:29:04.250
all our sakes is

0:29:04.250,0:29:07.205
simply to accept[br]our history.

0:29:07.205,0:29:09.950
I was there not[br]only as a slave,

0:29:09.950,0:29:11.945
but also as a concubine.

0:29:11.945,0:29:14.255
One knows the[br]power after all,

0:29:14.255,0:29:16.580
which can be used[br]against another person

0:29:16.580,0:29:19.740
who've got absolute[br]power over that person.

0:29:20.650,0:29:23.240
It seemed to me when I[br]watched Americans in

0:29:23.240,0:29:26.850
Europe but they didn't[br]know about Europeans.

0:29:28.260,0:29:31.255
Was what they didn't[br]know about me.

0:29:31.255,0:29:32.980
They weren't trying,[br]for example,

0:29:32.980,0:29:34.300
to be nasty to[br]the French girl

0:29:34.300,0:29:36.310
or rude to the[br]French waiter.

0:29:36.310,0:29:39.760
They didn't know, they[br]hurt their feelings.

0:29:39.760,0:29:41.905
They didn't have any sense

0:29:41.905,0:29:43.780
this particular woman,[br]this particular man,

0:29:43.780,0:29:45.040
though they spoke[br]another language

0:29:45.040,0:29:46.000
and had different[br]manners and

0:29:46.000,0:29:48.940
ways was a human being.

0:29:48.940,0:29:50.785
And they walked over them

0:29:50.785,0:29:55.525
the same bland ignorance,[br]condescension,

0:29:55.525,0:29:58.010
charming and cheerful,

0:29:58.140,0:30:00.310
with which they[br]had always patted

0:30:00.310,0:30:01.360
me on the head[br]and called me

0:30:01.360,0:30:05.960
shine and were upset[br]when I was upset.

0:30:06.650,0:30:13.225
What is relevant[br]about this is that,

0:30:13.225,0:30:16.520
whereas 40 years ago[br]when I was born,

0:30:16.830,0:30:19.390
the question of[br]having to deal

0:30:19.390,0:30:24.430
with what is unspoken[br]by the subjugated,

0:30:24.430,0:30:27.025
what is never said[br]to the master.

0:30:27.025,0:30:29.290
Having to deal with[br]this reality was

0:30:29.290,0:30:31.150
a very remote possibility,

0:30:31.150,0:30:32.680
I was in no one's mind.

0:30:32.680,0:30:34.930
When I was growing up, I

0:30:34.930,0:30:37.045
was taught in American[br]history books,

0:30:37.045,0:30:38.770
that Africa had[br]no history,

0:30:38.770,0:30:40.700
and neither did I,

0:30:40.700,0:30:43.790
that I was a savage

0:30:43.790,0:30:46.825
about who the less[br]said the better,

0:30:46.825,0:30:50.050
who had been[br]saved by Europe

0:30:50.050,0:30:52.970
and brought to America.

0:30:53.550,0:30:56.785
And of course,[br]I believed it,

0:30:56.785,0:30:59.320
I didn't have much choice

0:30:59.320,0:31:02.200
those are the only[br]books there were.

0:31:02.200,0:31:04.990
Everyone else[br]seem to agree

0:31:04.990,0:31:06.550
if you walk out of Harlem,

0:31:06.550,0:31:08.950
ride out of[br]Harlem, downtown,

0:31:08.950,0:31:11.350
the world agrees, what you

0:31:11.350,0:31:13.765
see is much[br]bigger, cleaner,

0:31:13.765,0:31:18.925
wider, richer, safer,[br]than where you are.

0:31:18.925,0:31:20.755
They collect the garbage,

0:31:20.755,0:31:21.490
people obviously can

0:31:21.490,0:31:22.600
pay their life insurance.

0:31:22.600,0:31:24.535
The children look[br]happy, safe,

0:31:24.535,0:31:27.760
you're not, and[br]you go back home.

0:31:27.760,0:31:30.475
And it would seem[br]then, of course,

0:31:30.475,0:31:33.730
that it's an act of[br]God that this is true,

0:31:33.730,0:31:36.160
that you belong,

0:31:36.160,0:31:39.560
where white people[br]have put you.

0:31:39.840,0:31:43.825
It is only since the[br]Second World War,

0:31:43.825,0:31:45.760
that there has[br]been a counter

0:31:45.760,0:31:47.305
image in the world.

0:31:47.305,0:31:48.610
And that image not come

0:31:48.610,0:31:50.320
about through any[br]legislation on

0:31:50.320,0:31:53.215
the part of any[br]American government,

0:31:53.215,0:31:55.940
but through the[br]fact that Africa

0:31:55.940,0:32:00.835
was suddenly on the[br]stage of the world,

0:32:00.835,0:32:02.260
and Africans[br]had to be dealt

0:32:02.260,0:32:03.610
with in a way

0:32:03.610,0:32:05.875
that never been[br]dealt with before.

0:32:05.875,0:32:07.660
This gave an American

0:32:07.660,0:32:08.830
Negro for the first time

0:32:08.830,0:32:10.120
a sense of himself beyond

0:32:10.120,0:32:12.410
a savage or a clown.

0:32:13.980,0:32:17.140
It is created and will

0:32:17.140,0:32:21.400
create a great[br]many conundrums.

0:32:21.400,0:32:23.620
One of the great things

0:32:23.620,0:32:24.730
that the white world does

0:32:24.730,0:32:28.075
not know but I[br]think I do know,

0:32:28.075,0:32:29.650
is that black[br]people are just

0:32:29.650,0:32:31.360
like everybody else.

0:32:31.360,0:32:33.790
One has used the[br]myths of Negro and

0:32:33.790,0:32:35.740
the myth of color to

0:32:35.740,0:32:37.720
pretend and to[br]assume that you are

0:32:37.720,0:32:40.450
dealing essentially[br]with something exotic,

0:32:40.450,0:32:43.060
bizarre, and[br]practically according

0:32:43.060,0:32:44.830
to human laws unknown.

0:32:44.830,0:32:47.125
Alas, that is not true.

0:32:47.125,0:32:50.575
We are also[br]mercenaries, dictators,

0:32:50.575,0:32:55.615
murderers, fliers.[br]We are human too.

0:32:55.615,0:32:58.345
What is crucial here,

0:32:58.345,0:33:01.180
is unless we can[br]manage to establish

0:33:01.180,0:33:05.890
some dialogue[br]between those people

0:33:05.890,0:33:08.680
whom I pretend has paid

0:33:08.680,0:33:12.145
for the American dream

0:33:12.145,0:33:13.660
and those other[br]people who have

0:33:13.660,0:33:15.800
not achieved it,

0:33:16.320,0:33:19.195
we will be in[br]terrible trouble.

0:33:19.195,0:33:21.385
I want to say at the end,

0:33:21.385,0:33:23.050
the last, is that

0:33:23.050,0:33:25.615
that is what[br]concerns me most.

0:33:25.615,0:33:27.760
We are sitting in[br]this room and we are

0:33:27.760,0:33:29.470
all we like to[br]think we are,

0:33:29.470,0:33:32.080
relatively civilized,[br]and we can

0:33:32.080,0:33:32.770
talk to each other at

0:33:32.770,0:33:34.850
least on certain levels.

0:33:35.310,0:33:39.820
So that we could walk[br]out of here assuming

0:33:39.820,0:33:42.670
that the measure of[br]our enlightenment or

0:33:42.670,0:33:44.080
at least our politeness

0:33:44.080,0:33:45.895
has some effect[br]on the world.

0:33:45.895,0:33:48.880
It may not. I remember,

0:33:48.880,0:33:52.495
for example, when the[br]ex Attorney General,

0:33:52.495,0:33:56.185
Mr. Robert Kennedy, said

0:33:56.185,0:33:58.900
that it was conceivable

0:33:58.900,0:34:00.910
that in 40 years[br]in America,

0:34:00.910,0:34:03.295
we might have a[br]Negro president.

0:34:03.295,0:34:05.200
And that sounded like

0:34:05.200,0:34:07.990
a very emancipated[br]statement,

0:34:07.990,0:34:10.060
I suppose, to[br]white people.

0:34:10.060,0:34:12.640
They were not in Harlem

0:34:12.640,0:34:15.730
when this statement[br]was first heard,

0:34:15.730,0:34:18.190
and did not hear and[br]possibly will never

0:34:18.190,0:34:19.930
hear the laughter and

0:34:19.930,0:34:21.070
the bitterness[br]and the scorn,

0:34:21.070,0:34:22.810
which the statement[br]was greeted.

0:34:22.810,0:34:24.400
From the point of[br]view of the man in

0:34:24.400,0:34:25.450
the N Harlem barbershop,

0:34:25.450,0:34:26.500
Bobby Kennedy[br]only got here

0:34:26.500,0:34:30.220
yesterday and now he's

0:34:30.220,0:34:32.680
already on his way[br]to the presidency.

0:34:32.680,0:34:34.810
We've been here[br]for 400 years,

0:34:34.810,0:34:38.515
and now he tells us[br]that maybe in 40 years,

0:34:38.515,0:34:40.960
if you're good, we

0:34:40.960,0:34:43.640
may let you[br]become president.

0:34:43.950,0:34:48.780
What is dangerous here[br]is the turning away

0:34:48.780,0:34:57.200
from anything any[br]white American says.

0:34:57.200,0:34:58.720
The reason for[br]the political

0:34:58.720,0:35:00.160
hesitation in spite of

0:35:00.160,0:35:02.710
the Johnson landslide[br]is the one who's been

0:35:02.710,0:35:06.130
betrayed by American[br]politicians for so long.

0:35:06.130,0:35:08.290
I'm a grown man,[br]and perhaps

0:35:08.290,0:35:10.135
I can be reasoned with,

0:35:10.135,0:35:12.895
I certainly hope I can be.

0:35:12.895,0:35:16.450
But I don't know and

0:35:16.450,0:35:17.590
neither does Martin[br]Luther King,

0:35:17.590,0:35:20.110
none of us know how to

0:35:20.110,0:35:21.550
deal with those[br]other people whom

0:35:21.550,0:35:23.260
the white world has[br]so long ignored,

0:35:23.260,0:35:24.910
who don't believe[br]anything the white world

0:35:24.910,0:35:29.395
says and don't entirely[br]believe anything

0:35:29.395,0:35:31.705
I or Martin say.

0:35:31.705,0:35:34.000
And one can't blame them,

0:35:34.000,0:35:35.110
you watch what[br]has happened to

0:35:35.110,0:35:37.280
them in less[br]than 20 years.

0:35:38.280,0:35:42.340
It seems to me that[br]the City of New York,

0:35:42.340,0:35:44.870
for example, this[br]is my last point.

0:35:46.770,0:35:48.730
We said Negroes[br]lived in it for

0:35:48.730,0:35:49.885
a very long time.

0:35:49.885,0:35:52.450
If the City of New York

0:35:52.450,0:35:54.625
were able as it has[br]indeed been able,

0:35:54.625,0:35:57.970
in the last 15 years[br]to reconstruct itself,

0:35:57.970,0:35:59.830
teared down buildings and

0:35:59.830,0:36:01.960
raise great new ones,

0:36:01.960,0:36:05.050
downtown and for money.

0:36:05.050,0:36:07.300
And it has done[br]nothing whatever

0:36:07.300,0:36:09.130
except build[br]housing projects in

0:36:09.130,0:36:13.540
the ghetto for the Negroes

0:36:13.540,0:36:15.850
and of course,[br]Negroes hate it.

0:36:15.850,0:36:16.960
Presently, the property

0:36:16.960,0:36:18.280
doesn't deteriorate[br]because

0:36:18.280,0:36:19.810
the children[br]cannot bear it.

0:36:19.810,0:36:22.550
They want to get[br]out of the ghetto.

0:36:23.370,0:36:26.830
If the American[br]pretensions

0:36:26.830,0:36:29.030
were based on more solid,

0:36:29.190,0:36:32.320
a more honest assessment

0:36:32.320,0:36:34.960
of life and of themselves,

0:36:34.960,0:36:37.345
it would not[br]mean for Negroes

0:36:37.345,0:36:38.455
when someone says

0:36:38.455,0:36:40.330
urban renewal that Negroes

0:36:40.330,0:36:40.780
simply going to be

0:36:40.780,0:36:41.710
thrown out into[br]the streets.

0:36:41.710,0:36:43.330
This is what it[br]does mean now.

0:36:43.330,0:36:44.770
This is not an act of God,

0:36:44.770,0:36:46.165
we're dealing with[br]a society made

0:36:46.165,0:36:48.550
and ruled by men.

0:36:48.550,0:36:50.725
If the American Negro

0:36:50.725,0:36:53.380
had not been[br]present in America,

0:36:53.380,0:36:55.570
I'm convinced that[br]the history of

0:36:55.570,0:36:57.040
the American labor[br]movement would

0:36:57.040,0:36:59.635
be much more[br]edifying than it is.

0:36:59.635,0:37:02.230
It is a terrible thing

0:37:02.230,0:37:05.050
for an entire people to

0:37:05.050,0:37:07.030
surrender to[br]the notion that

0:37:07.030,0:37:10.555
one ninth of its population[br]is beneath them.

0:37:10.555,0:37:12.415
And until that moment,

0:37:12.415,0:37:15.940
until the moment[br]comes, when we,

0:37:15.940,0:37:19.360
the American people are

0:37:19.360,0:37:21.040
able to accept the fact

0:37:21.040,0:37:22.300
that I have to accept,

0:37:22.300,0:37:23.440
for example, that[br]my ancestors are

0:37:23.440,0:37:25.405
both white and black.

0:37:25.405,0:37:27.205
That on that continent,

0:37:27.205,0:37:28.390
we are trying to forge

0:37:28.390,0:37:31.315
a new identity for which[br]we need each other,

0:37:31.315,0:37:34.945
and that I am not[br]a ward of America.

0:37:34.945,0:37:38.065
I'm not an object of[br]missionary charity.

0:37:38.065,0:37:41.845
I am one of the people[br]who built the country.

0:37:41.845,0:37:44.500
Until this[br]moment, there are

0:37:44.500,0:37:47.215
scarcely any hope for[br]the American dream

0:37:47.215,0:37:48.880
because the people who are

0:37:48.880,0:37:50.380
denied participation in

0:37:50.380,0:37:56.860
it by their very[br]presence will wreck it,

0:37:56.860,0:37:58.120
and if that happens,

0:37:58.120,0:37:59.965
it's a very grave[br]moment for the West.

0:37:59.965,0:38:22.660
Thank you. [APPLAUSE].

0:38:22.660,0:38:25.750
>> Tremendously[br]moving moment now.

0:38:25.750,0:38:28.570
The whole of the[br]Union standing and

0:38:28.570,0:38:30.970
applauding this[br]magnificent speech

0:38:30.970,0:38:32.920
of James Baldwin.

0:38:32.920,0:38:35.860
Never seen this[br]happen before in

0:38:35.860,0:38:37.510
the Union in all the years

0:38:37.510,0:38:39.505
that I have known it.

0:38:39.505,0:38:42.970
Baldwin smiling,[br]obviously,

0:38:42.970,0:38:44.995
delighted by[br]his reception,

0:38:44.995,0:38:47.510
tremendously moved by it.

0:39:04.230,0:39:06.490
>> I am now very[br]grateful and

0:39:06.490,0:39:07.780
very pleased to[br]be able to call

0:39:07.780,0:39:09.970
Mr. William F Buckley[br]junior to speak

0:39:09.970,0:39:19.960
forth to this[br]motion.[APPLAUSE]

0:39:19.960,0:39:21.670
>> Now, we have Mr.[br]William Buckley,

0:39:21.670,0:39:23.530
who will need[br]all his skill to

0:39:23.530,0:39:25.780
establish ascendency[br]over his audience,

0:39:25.780,0:39:28.510
which has clearly been[br]so deeply moved by the

0:39:28.510,0:39:30.670
eloquent and[br]personal experience,

0:39:30.670,0:39:31.825
the preceding speaker.

0:39:31.825,0:39:35.180
>> Take, Mr.[br]President, gentlemen.

0:39:38.850,0:39:42.280
It seems to me that of

0:39:42.280,0:39:45.970
all the indictments[br]Mr. Baldwin,

0:39:45.970,0:39:49.680
has made of America are

0:39:49.680,0:39:50.850
here tonight and in

0:39:50.850,0:39:54.880
his copious literature[br]of protest.

0:39:55.400,0:40:03.720
The one that is most[br]striking involves in

0:40:03.720,0:40:08.050
effect the refusal of

0:40:08.050,0:40:11.320
the American community to

0:40:11.320,0:40:15.170
treat him other[br]than as a Negro.

0:40:17.220,0:40:19.330
The American community has

0:40:19.330,0:40:21.380
refused to do this.

0:40:22.260,0:40:24.460
The American[br]community almost

0:40:24.460,0:40:26.470
everywhere he goes,

0:40:26.470,0:40:31.090
treats him with the[br]kind of unction.

0:40:31.090,0:40:34.060
The kind of satisfaction

0:40:34.060,0:40:38.035
at posturing carefully for

0:40:38.035,0:40:42.040
his flagellations of[br]our civilization,

0:40:42.040,0:40:46.240
that indeed, are[br]quite properly of

0:40:46.240,0:40:48.310
commands the[br]contempt which

0:40:48.310,0:40:51.080
he so eloquently[br]showers upon it.

0:40:51.510,0:40:53.620
It is impossible in

0:40:53.620,0:40:56.020
my judgment to deal

0:40:56.020,0:40:57.820
with the indictment[br]of Mr. Baldwin,

0:40:57.820,0:40:58.900
unless one is prepared to

0:40:58.900,0:41:01.330
deal with him[br]as a white man.

0:41:01.330,0:41:03.940
Unless one is prepared[br]to say to him,

0:41:03.940,0:41:06.280
the fact that your[br]skin is black

0:41:06.280,0:41:08.170
is utterly irrelevant to

0:41:08.170,0:41:10.300
the arguments[br]that you raise.

0:41:10.300,0:41:14.320
The fact that you[br]sit here as is

0:41:14.320,0:41:17.500
your rhetorical[br]device and lay

0:41:17.500,0:41:20.260
the entire weight of[br]the Negro ordeal on

0:41:20.260,0:41:23.170
your own shoulders[br]is irrelevant

0:41:23.170,0:41:27.140
to the argument that we[br]are here to discuss.

0:41:27.810,0:41:31.630
The gravamen of[br]Mr. Baldwin's

0:41:31.630,0:41:35.050
charges against[br]America are

0:41:35.050,0:41:37.870
not so much that our[br]civilization has failed

0:41:37.870,0:41:40.540
him and his people

0:41:40.540,0:41:43.135
that our ideals[br]are insufficient,

0:41:43.135,0:41:45.940
but that we[br]have no ideals.

0:41:45.940,0:41:48.265
That our ideals,

0:41:48.265,0:41:52.405
rather or some sort of[br]a superficial coating,

0:41:52.405,0:41:54.280
which we come up with at

0:41:54.280,0:41:57.910
any given moment in order[br]to justify whatever

0:41:57.910,0:42:00.340
commercial and[br]anoxious experiment

0:42:00.340,0:42:02.050
we are engaged in.

0:42:02.050,0:42:04.885
Thus, Mr. Baldwin[br]can write his book,

0:42:04.885,0:42:06.910
the fire next time,

0:42:06.910,0:42:09.820
in which he[br]threatens America.

0:42:09.820,0:42:12.190
He didn't in writing[br]that book speak with

0:42:12.190,0:42:13.570
the British accents that

0:42:13.570,0:42:15.670
he used exclusively[br]tonight.

0:42:15.670,0:42:17.710
In which he threatened[br]America with

0:42:17.710,0:42:21.340
necessity for us to

0:42:21.340,0:42:28.840
jettison our entire[br]civilization.

0:42:28.840,0:42:30.430
The only thing that

0:42:30.430,0:42:33.520
the white man has that[br]the Negro should want,

0:42:33.520,0:42:35.680
he said is power.

0:42:35.680,0:42:37.930
And he is treated from

0:42:37.930,0:42:40.300
coast to coast[br]United states

0:42:40.300,0:42:46.510
with anguish[br][BACKGROUND] goes

0:42:46.510,0:42:48.910
beyond anything that[br]was ever expected from

0:42:48.910,0:42:51.160
the most servile[br]Negro creature

0:42:51.160,0:42:52.570
by a southern family.

0:42:52.570,0:42:54.415
I propose to pay[br]him the honor

0:42:54.415,0:42:58.255
this night saying to[br]him, Mr. Baldwin,

0:42:58.255,0:43:00.700
I am going to speak[br]to you without

0:43:00.700,0:43:03.820
any reference whatever to

0:43:03.820,0:43:07.060
those surrounding[br]protections which you

0:43:07.060,0:43:08.650
are used to in virtue of

0:43:08.650,0:43:10.525
the fact that[br]you are a Negro.

0:43:10.525,0:43:12.685
And here we need to[br]ask the question.

0:43:12.685,0:43:14.830
What, in fact, shall[br]we do about it, Mr.

0:43:14.830,0:43:16.990
Present? What shall we in

0:43:16.990,0:43:20.260
America try to[br]do, for instance,

0:43:20.260,0:43:24.025
to eliminate those[br]psychic humiliation,

0:43:24.025,0:43:27.130
which I join Mr.[br]Baldwin in believing,

0:43:27.130,0:43:28.780
are the very worst aspects

0:43:28.780,0:43:30.220
of this discrimination?

0:43:30.220,0:43:32.590
Are you found[br]that a source of

0:43:32.590,0:43:34.750
considerable birth[br]to laugh away

0:43:34.750,0:43:37.360
the statistics of my[br]colleague, Mr. Burford.

0:43:37.360,0:43:39.835
I don't think they[br]are insignificant.

0:43:39.835,0:43:41.890
They are certainly[br]not insignificant,

0:43:41.890,0:43:43.945
or in a world[br]which attaches

0:43:43.945,0:43:45.535
a considerable importance

0:43:45.535,0:43:47.335
to material progress.

0:43:47.335,0:43:50.270
It is, in fact, the case,

0:43:50.520,0:43:53.110
that seven tenths[br]of the white income

0:43:53.110,0:43:54.445
of the United States

0:43:54.445,0:43:56.410
is equal to the[br]income that is

0:43:56.410,0:43:58.390
made by the average Negro.

0:43:58.390,0:43:59.950
I don't think this[br]is an irrelevant

0:43:59.950,0:44:02.215
statistic ladies[br]and gentlemen.

0:44:02.215,0:44:05.290
It takes a[br]capitalization of 15,16,

0:44:05.290,0:44:07.240
$17,000 per job in

0:44:07.240,0:44:09.145
the United States. This[br]is a capitalization.

0:44:09.145,0:44:10.855
That it was not created

0:44:10.855,0:44:13.885
exclusively as a result[br]of negro travail.

0:44:13.885,0:44:16.240
My great grandparents[br]worked too,

0:44:16.240,0:44:18.040
presumably yours[br]worked also.

0:44:18.040,0:44:19.720
I don't know if anything[br]that has ever been

0:44:19.720,0:44:22.270
created without the[br]expense of something,

0:44:22.270,0:44:23.860
all of you who hope for

0:44:23.860,0:44:25.240
a diploma here[br]are going to do

0:44:25.240,0:44:26.500
that at the expense

0:44:26.500,0:44:28.375
of a considerable[br]amount of effort.

0:44:28.375,0:44:29.710
And I would thank you.

0:44:29.710,0:44:32.260
Please [LAUGHTER] not[br]to belie the fact that

0:44:32.260,0:44:34.750
a considerable amount[br]of effort went into

0:44:34.750,0:44:36.460
the production of[br]a system which

0:44:36.460,0:44:38.830
grants a greater degree[br]of material well

0:44:38.830,0:44:40.345
being to the[br]American negro

0:44:40.345,0:44:41.290
other than that that is

0:44:41.290,0:44:42.640
enjoyed by 95% of

0:44:42.640,0:44:44.155
the other peoples[br]of the human race.

0:44:44.155,0:44:46.390
But even so, to

0:44:46.390,0:44:48.880
the extent that your[br]withering laughter

0:44:48.880,0:44:51.250
suggested here[br]that you found

0:44:51.250,0:44:54.925
this a contemptible[br]observation, I agree.

0:44:54.925,0:44:56.950
I don't think it[br]matters that there are

0:44:56.950,0:45:00.280
35 millionaires among[br]the negro community.

0:45:00.280,0:45:04.000
If there were 20[br]million millionaires

0:45:04.000,0:45:05.380
among the negro community

0:45:05.380,0:45:06.340
of the United States,

0:45:06.340,0:45:07.795
I would still[br]agree with you.

0:45:07.795,0:45:10.600
That we have a[br]dastardly situation.

0:45:10.600,0:45:14.770
But I'm asking you not[br]to make politics as

0:45:14.770,0:45:16.510
the pro flies to use

0:45:16.510,0:45:18.925
the fleeted phrase of[br]Professor Oakeshott,

0:45:18.925,0:45:20.890
but rather to[br]consider, what in

0:45:20.890,0:45:23.365
fact is it that we[br]Americans ought to do?

0:45:23.365,0:45:25.090
What are your[br]instructions that

0:45:25.090,0:45:26.980
I'm to take back to[br]the United States,

0:45:26.980,0:45:28.660
my friend [LAUGHTER] I

0:45:28.660,0:45:30.520
want to know what it[br]is that we should do,

0:45:30.520,0:45:32.365
and especially[br]I want to know

0:45:32.365,0:45:34.540
whether it is[br]time, in fact,

0:45:34.540,0:45:36.655
to abandon the[br]American dream,

0:45:36.655,0:45:38.260
as it has been defined

0:45:38.260,0:45:39.895
by Mr. Haycock,[br]Mr. Burford.

0:45:39.895,0:45:41.230
What in fact is it that

0:45:41.230,0:45:43.040
we ought to do[br]for instance?

0:45:43.040,0:45:47.890
To avoid do humiliations[br]mentioned by Mr.

0:45:47.890,0:45:50.620
Baldwin as being a part of

0:45:50.620,0:45:53.980
his own experience[br]during his lifetime.

0:45:53.980,0:45:56.050
At the age of 12, you

0:45:56.050,0:45:57.955
will find on[br]reading his book,

0:45:57.955,0:46:00.910
he trespassed[br]outside the ghetto

0:46:00.910,0:46:02.860
of Harlem and was

0:46:02.860,0:46:04.960
taken by the scruff[br]of the neck by

0:46:04.960,0:46:07.480
a policeman on 42nd Street

0:46:07.480,0:46:08.530
in Madison[br]Avenue and said,

0:46:08.530,0:46:09.925
here you nigger, go back

0:46:09.925,0:46:11.800
to where you belong.

0:46:11.800,0:46:14.020
Fifteen, 20 years later,

0:46:14.020,0:46:16.735
he goes in and asks[br]for a scotch whiskey

0:46:16.735,0:46:19.720
at the airport[br]at Chicago and

0:46:19.720,0:46:22.810
is told by the white[br]barman that he is

0:46:22.810,0:46:24.400
obviously underage[br]and under

0:46:24.400,0:46:27.110
the circumstances[br]cannot be served.

0:46:27.810,0:46:30.430
I know from your[br]faces that you

0:46:30.430,0:46:32.820
share with me[br]the feeling of

0:46:32.820,0:46:35.220
compassion and[br]the feeling of

0:46:35.220,0:46:37.650
outrage that this kind

0:46:37.650,0:46:39.060
of thing should[br]have happened.

0:46:39.060,0:46:40.440
What, in fact, are we

0:46:40.440,0:46:42.360
going to do to[br]this policeman?

0:46:42.360,0:46:43.860
And what in fact[br]are we going to

0:46:43.860,0:46:46.560
do to this barman?

0:46:46.560,0:46:49.790
How are we going to avoid?

0:46:49.790,0:46:52.320
The kind of[br]humiliations that are

0:46:52.320,0:46:55.255
perpetually[br]visited on members

0:46:55.255,0:46:57.095
of the minority race.

0:46:57.095,0:47:00.640
Obviously, the first[br]element is concern.

0:47:00.640,0:47:03.175
We've got the care[br]that it happens.

0:47:03.175,0:47:05.200
We have got to do what we

0:47:05.200,0:47:07.780
can to change the[br]warp and woof of

0:47:07.780,0:47:09.790
moral thought[br]in society in

0:47:09.790,0:47:11.290
such fashion as to try

0:47:11.290,0:47:13.570
to make it happen[br]less and less.

0:47:13.570,0:47:16.045
Let me urge this[br]point to you,

0:47:16.045,0:47:18.340
which I can do with[br]authority, my friends.

0:47:18.340,0:47:19.360
The only thing that I can

0:47:19.360,0:47:20.830
tonight and that is to

0:47:20.830,0:47:23.785
tell you that in[br]the United States,

0:47:23.785,0:47:27.025
there is a concern for[br]the negro problem.

0:47:27.025,0:47:27.910
Now [LAUGHTER][br][APPLAUSE] if you get

0:47:27.910,0:47:29.690
up to me and say,

0:47:34.110,0:47:37.255
well, now, is there[br]the kind of concern

0:47:37.255,0:47:40.120
that we students of[br]Cambridge would show,

0:47:40.120,0:47:41.605
if the problem[br]were our own?

0:47:41.605,0:47:43.780
All I can say is[br]I don't know.

0:47:43.780,0:47:45.880
It may very well be

0:47:45.880,0:47:47.770
that there has[br]been some sort of

0:47:47.770,0:47:51.100
a sunburst of moral[br]enlightenment

0:47:51.100,0:47:52.780
that has hit[br]this community.

0:47:52.780,0:47:54.730
[LAUGHTER] So[br]as to make it

0:47:54.730,0:47:55.930
predictable that[br]if you were

0:47:55.930,0:47:57.700
the governors of[br]the United States,

0:47:57.700,0:47:59.770
the situation would[br]change overnight.

0:47:59.770,0:48:01.255
I'm prepared to[br]grant this as

0:48:01.255,0:48:03.340
a form of courtesy,[br]Mr. President.

0:48:03.340,0:48:07.210
[LAUGHTER] But meanwhile,[br]I'm saying to you

0:48:07.210,0:48:09.580
that the engines[br]of concern

0:48:09.580,0:48:11.960
in the United[br]States are working.

0:48:11.960,0:48:14.935
The presence of Mr.[br]Baldwin here tonight is

0:48:14.935,0:48:17.920
in part a reflection[br]of that concern.

0:48:17.920,0:48:20.050
[LAUGHTER] You cannot go

0:48:20.050,0:48:23.500
to a university in[br]the United States.

0:48:23.500,0:48:24.760
A university in[br]the United States

0:48:24.760,0:48:25.985
presumably also

0:48:25.985,0:48:28.780
governed by the Lord[br]spiritual as you are,

0:48:28.780,0:48:30.730
in which Mr.[br]Baldwin is not

0:48:30.730,0:48:32.950
the toast of the town.

0:48:32.950,0:48:34.090
You cannot go to

0:48:34.090,0:48:35.645
a university of[br]the United States,

0:48:35.645,0:48:38.680
in which practically[br]all other problems

0:48:38.680,0:48:40.000
of public policy are

0:48:40.000,0:48:42.580
preempted by the[br]primary policy

0:48:42.580,0:48:45.085
of concern for the negro.

0:48:45.085,0:48:46.570
I challenge you to name

0:48:46.570,0:48:48.970
me another[br]civilization anytime,

0:48:48.970,0:48:51.085
anywhere in the[br]history of the world,

0:48:51.085,0:48:52.645
in which the problems of

0:48:52.645,0:48:55.000
a minority which[br]have been showing

0:48:55.000,0:48:56.410
considerable material

0:48:56.410,0:48:57.910
and political[br]advancement is

0:48:57.910,0:48:59.350
as much a subject of

0:48:59.350,0:49:00.670
dramatic concern as it

0:49:00.670,0:49:02.320
is in the United States.

0:49:02.320,0:49:04.120
Let me just say,

0:49:04.120,0:49:06.070
finally, ladies[br]and gentlemen,

0:49:06.070,0:49:09.700
this, there is

0:49:09.700,0:49:11.740
no instant cure for

0:49:11.740,0:49:14.635
the race problem[br]in America.

0:49:14.635,0:49:16.930
And anybody who tells[br]you that there is is

0:49:16.930,0:49:21.205
a charlatan and[br]ultimately a boring man,

0:49:21.205,0:49:23.800
a boring precisely because

0:49:23.800,0:49:25.600
he is then speaking in

0:49:25.600,0:49:27.700
the kind of[br]abstractions that do

0:49:27.700,0:49:30.635
not relate to the[br]human experience.

0:49:30.635,0:49:32.920
The trouble in America,

0:49:32.920,0:49:34.885
where the negro community[br]is concerned is

0:49:34.885,0:49:37.180
a very complicated one.

0:49:37.180,0:49:39.040
I urge those of you who

0:49:39.040,0:49:42.340
have an actual rather than

0:49:42.340,0:49:44.290
a purely ideologized[br]interest

0:49:44.290,0:49:46.180
in the problem to read

0:49:46.180,0:49:48.670
the book beyond[br]the melting part

0:49:48.670,0:49:50.575
by Professor Glazer,

0:49:50.575,0:49:52.915
also co author of[br]the Lonely Crowd,

0:49:52.915,0:49:56.215
a prominent Jewish[br]intellectual,

0:49:56.215,0:49:58.420
who points to[br]the fact that

0:49:58.420,0:50:01.400
the situation in America[br]where the negroes

0:50:01.400,0:50:04.630
are concerned is[br]extremely complex as

0:50:04.630,0:50:06.185
a result of

0:50:06.185,0:50:08.620
an unfortunate conjunction[br]of two factors.

0:50:08.620,0:50:12.040
One is the[br]dreadful efforts

0:50:12.040,0:50:14.320
to perpetuate[br]discrimination by

0:50:14.320,0:50:17.110
many individual[br]American citizens as

0:50:17.110,0:50:19.150
a result of their lack of

0:50:19.150,0:50:21.760
that final and[br]ultimate concern which

0:50:21.760,0:50:23.620
some people are truly[br]trying to agitate

0:50:23.620,0:50:25.780
the other is as

0:50:25.780,0:50:27.010
a result of the failure of

0:50:27.010,0:50:30.425
the negro community[br]itself to make

0:50:30.425,0:50:33.460
certain exertions[br]which were

0:50:33.460,0:50:35.110
made by other[br]minority groups

0:50:35.110,0:50:37.040
during the American[br]experience.

0:50:37.040,0:50:38.950
If you can stand[br]a statistic

0:50:38.950,0:50:40.435
not of my own making,

0:50:40.435,0:50:41.830
let me give you one which

0:50:41.830,0:50:44.815
Professor Glazer[br]considers as relevant.

0:50:44.815,0:50:47.660
He says, for[br]instance, in 1900,

0:50:47.660,0:50:50.890
there were 3,500 negro[br]doctors in America.

0:50:50.890,0:50:54.220
In 1960, there were 3,900,

0:50:54.220,0:50:56.015
an increase in 400.

0:50:56.015,0:50:58.585
Is this because there[br]were no opportunities,

0:50:58.585,0:51:00.220
as has been[br]suggested by Mr.

0:51:00.220,0:51:02.830
Haycock and also by Mr.[br]Baldwin implicitly?

0:51:02.830,0:51:04.930
No, says Professor Glazer.

0:51:04.930,0:51:07.285
There are a great[br]many medical schools

0:51:07.285,0:51:10.240
who are by no means[br]practice discrimination,

0:51:10.240,0:51:11.860
who are anxious[br]to receive,

0:51:11.860,0:51:13.900
to train negro doctors.

0:51:13.900,0:51:15.220
There are scholarships[br]available

0:51:15.220,0:51:16.220
to put them through.

0:51:16.220,0:51:18.875
But in fact, that[br]particular energy,

0:51:18.875,0:51:20.350
which he remarks was so

0:51:20.350,0:51:22.300
noticeable in the[br]Jewish community and to

0:51:22.300,0:51:23.830
a certain and[br]lesser extent in

0:51:23.830,0:51:25.210
the Italian[br]Irish community

0:51:25.210,0:51:27.310
for some reason[br]is not there.

0:51:27.310,0:51:29.110
We should focus on

0:51:29.110,0:51:30.340
the necessity to

0:51:30.340,0:51:32.710
animate this[br]particular energy,

0:51:32.710,0:51:34.390
but he comes to[br]the conclusion

0:51:34.390,0:51:35.830
which strikes me[br]as plausible.

0:51:35.830,0:51:37.330
That the people who[br]can best do it,

0:51:37.330,0:51:38.530
who can do it[br]most effectively

0:51:38.530,0:51:39.670
are negroes themselves.

0:51:39.670,0:51:42.760
Let me conclude[br]by reminding you,

0:51:42.760,0:51:45.580
ladies and gentlemen, that

0:51:45.580,0:51:47.800
where the negro[br]is concerned,

0:51:47.800,0:51:49.990
the dangers as far[br]as I can see at

0:51:49.990,0:51:52.810
this moment is[br]that they will

0:51:52.810,0:51:55.300
seek to reach out[br]for some sort of

0:51:55.300,0:51:57.850
radical solutions[br]on the basis of

0:51:57.850,0:52:00.880
which the true[br]problem is obscured.

0:52:00.880,0:52:04.360
They have done a great[br]deal to focus on

0:52:04.360,0:52:05.740
the fact of

0:52:05.740,0:52:08.320
white discrimination[br]against the negroes.

0:52:08.320,0:52:09.910
They have done[br]a great deal to

0:52:09.910,0:52:11.740
agitate a moral concern,

0:52:11.740,0:52:14.450
but where in fact,[br]do they go now?

0:52:14.450,0:52:15.940
They seem to be slipping.

0:52:15.940,0:52:17.920
If you will read[br]carefully, for instance,

0:52:17.920,0:52:20.740
the words of Mr.[br]Bayard Rustin towards

0:52:20.740,0:52:23.945
some sort of a[br]procrustan formulation

0:52:23.945,0:52:26.740
which ends up less urging

0:52:26.740,0:52:28.330
the advancement[br]of the negro

0:52:28.330,0:52:30.580
than the regression[br]of the white people.

0:52:30.580,0:52:32.950
Fourteen times as[br]many people in

0:52:32.950,0:52:34.775
New York City born of

0:52:34.775,0:52:37.360
negroes are illegitimate[br]as of whites.

0:52:37.360,0:52:39.430
This is a problem. How[br]shall we address it?

0:52:39.430,0:52:41.110
By seeking out laws that

0:52:41.110,0:52:43.435
encourage illegitimacy[br]in white people?

0:52:43.435,0:52:45.580
This unfortunately[br]tends to be

0:52:45.580,0:52:47.080
the rhetorical[br]momentum that

0:52:47.080,0:52:48.850
some of their[br]arguments are taken.

0:52:48.850,0:52:50.230
>> One thing you might do,

0:52:50.230,0:52:51.550
Mr. Buckley is let them

0:52:51.550,0:52:59.710
vote in Mississippi[br][APPLAUSE]

0:52:59.710,0:53:01.090
>> I couldn't agree[br]with you more

0:53:01.090,0:53:05.350
[LAUGHTER]

0:53:05.350,0:53:08.050
except unless I appear[br]too ingratiating,

0:53:08.050,0:53:09.955
which is hardly my[br]objective here tonight.

0:53:09.955,0:53:12.095
I think actually what

0:53:12.095,0:53:14.155
is wrong in[br]Mississippi, sir,

0:53:14.155,0:53:16.120
is not that not enough[br]negroes are voting,

0:53:16.120,0:53:17.545
but that too many[br]white people

0:53:17.545,0:53:30.660
are voting [LAUGHTER]

0:53:30.660,0:53:31.900
Booker T. Washington said

0:53:31.900,0:53:33.250
that the important[br]thing where negroes are

0:53:33.250,0:53:36.130
concerned is not that

0:53:36.130,0:53:37.300
they hold public office,

0:53:37.300,0:53:37.870
but that they be

0:53:37.870,0:53:39.400
prepared to hold[br]public office.

0:53:39.400,0:53:40.870
Not that they vote,

0:53:40.870,0:53:42.355
but that they be[br]prepared to vote.

0:53:42.355,0:53:43.180
What are we[br]going to do with

0:53:43.180,0:53:44.545
the negroes having taught

0:53:44.545,0:53:46.000
the negroes in Mississippi

0:53:46.000,0:53:48.040
to despise Rose Barnett?

0:53:48.040,0:53:51.010
Shall we then teach[br]them to emulate

0:53:51.010,0:53:52.895
their cousins in Harlem

0:53:52.895,0:53:55.120
and adore Adam Clayton[br]Powell Junior?

0:53:55.120,0:53:57.340
Well, it is much[br]more complicated,

0:53:57.340,0:53:58.870
sir, than simply[br]the question

0:53:58.870,0:54:00.515
of giving them the vote.

0:54:00.515,0:54:02.620
If I were myself[br]a constituent

0:54:02.620,0:54:03.340
of the community of

0:54:03.340,0:54:04.400
Mississippi at[br]this moment,

0:54:04.400,0:54:06.220
what I would do[br]is vote to lift

0:54:06.220,0:54:08.800
the standards of[br]the vote so as to

0:54:08.800,0:54:10.900
disqualify 65%

0:54:10.900,0:54:12.990
of the white people who[br]are presently voting

0:54:12.990,0:54:20.920
[LAUGHTER][br][APPLAUSE] I say

0:54:20.920,0:54:22.280
then that what we need

0:54:22.280,0:54:23.800
is a considerable[br]amount of

0:54:23.800,0:54:27.010
frankness that[br]acknowledges that

0:54:27.010,0:54:29.095
there are two sets[br]of difficulties.

0:54:29.095,0:54:31.780
The difficulties of[br]the white person

0:54:31.780,0:54:34.630
who acts as white[br]people and brown people

0:54:34.630,0:54:36.845
and black people[br]do all over

0:54:36.845,0:54:38.620
the world to protect

0:54:38.620,0:54:40.105
their own vested[br]interests,

0:54:40.105,0:54:41.320
who have, as all of

0:54:41.320,0:54:43.675
the races in the[br]entire world have,

0:54:43.675,0:54:46.000
and suffer from a kind of

0:54:46.000,0:54:48.350
a racial narcissism,

0:54:48.350,0:54:51.310
which tends[br]always to convert

0:54:51.310,0:54:53.110
every contingency[br]into such a way

0:54:53.110,0:54:54.650
as to maximize[br]their own power.

0:54:54.650,0:54:56.260
That, yes, we must do.

0:54:56.260,0:54:58.510
But we must also reach

0:54:58.510,0:55:00.985
through to the negro[br]people and tell them

0:55:00.985,0:55:02.500
that their best[br]chances are in

0:55:02.500,0:55:04.595
a mobile society and

0:55:04.595,0:55:07.120
the most mobile society[br]in the world today,

0:55:07.120,0:55:10.400
my friends, is the United[br]States of America.

0:55:10.400,0:55:11.950
The most mobile society of

0:55:11.950,0:55:13.270
the United States[br]in the world

0:55:13.270,0:55:14.290
is the United[br]States of America,

0:55:14.290,0:55:17.785
and it is precisely[br]that mobility,

0:55:17.785,0:55:19.270
which will give[br]opportunities

0:55:19.270,0:55:19.895
to the negroes,

0:55:19.895,0:55:21.550
which they must[br]be encouraged to

0:55:21.550,0:55:23.395
take, but they must not.

0:55:23.395,0:55:26.275
In the course of[br]their ordeal,

0:55:26.275,0:55:29.965
be encouraged to adopt[br]the kind of cynicism,

0:55:29.965,0:55:31.900
the kind of despair,

0:55:31.900,0:55:33.880
the kind of iconoclasm

0:55:33.880,0:55:35.140
that is urged upon them

0:55:35.140,0:55:38.455
by Mr. Baldwin in[br]his recent works,

0:55:38.455,0:55:41.080
because of one thing,[br]I can tell you,

0:55:41.080,0:55:43.690
I believe with[br]absolute authority,

0:55:43.690,0:55:46.345
that where the United[br]States is concerned,

0:55:46.345,0:55:49.900
if it ever becomes[br]a confrontation,

0:55:49.900,0:55:52.780
between a continuation of

0:55:52.780,0:55:56.560
our own sort of idealism.

0:55:56.560,0:55:58.630
The private stock[br]of which granted,

0:55:58.630,0:55:59.890
like most people[br]in the world,

0:55:59.890,0:56:02.375
we tend to lavish only[br]every now and then on

0:56:02.375,0:56:04.300
public enterprises[br]reserving it so

0:56:04.300,0:56:07.120
often for our own[br]irritations and pleasures.

0:56:07.120,0:56:10.030
But the fundamental[br]trend of

0:56:10.030,0:56:12.100
the negro people in

0:56:12.100,0:56:15.580
the United States is[br]the good nature and is

0:56:15.580,0:56:18.730
the generosity and is[br]the good wishes is

0:56:18.730,0:56:21.970
the fundamental[br]decency that do

0:56:21.970,0:56:23.950
lie at the reserves of

0:56:23.950,0:56:26.380
the spirit of the[br]American people.

0:56:26.380,0:56:28.970
These must not[br]be laughed at.

0:56:28.970,0:56:31.030
And under no circumstances

0:56:31.030,0:56:32.245
must they be laughed at,

0:56:32.245,0:56:34.930
and under no circumstances[br]must America be

0:56:34.930,0:56:37.000
addressed and hold that

0:56:37.000,0:56:39.865
the only alternative[br]to the status quo,

0:56:39.865,0:56:42.595
is to overthrow[br]that civilization,

0:56:42.595,0:56:43.840
which we consider to

0:56:43.840,0:56:46.120
be the faith of[br]our fathers,

0:56:46.120,0:56:48.730
the faith indeed[br]of your fathers.

0:56:48.730,0:56:50.515
This is what must animate

0:56:50.515,0:56:52.810
whatever meliorism[br]must come

0:56:52.810,0:56:55.805
because if it does[br]finally come to

0:56:55.805,0:56:58.660
a radical confrontation

0:56:58.660,0:56:59.800
between giving up what

0:56:59.800,0:57:01.030
we understand to be

0:57:01.030,0:57:02.710
the best features of

0:57:02.710,0:57:04.055
the American way of life,

0:57:04.055,0:57:05.315
which at that level is

0:57:05.315,0:57:06.820
indistinguishable[br]so far as

0:57:06.820,0:57:08.650
I can see from the[br]European way of life.

0:57:08.650,0:57:10.840
Then we will[br]fight the issue.

0:57:10.840,0:57:12.340
And we will fight[br]the issue, not

0:57:12.340,0:57:14.245
only in the[br]Cambridge Union,

0:57:14.245,0:57:15.490
but we will fight it as

0:57:15.490,0:57:16.970
you were once recently

0:57:16.970,0:57:18.280
called to do on beaches

0:57:18.280,0:57:19.690
and on hills and[br]on mountains,

0:57:19.690,0:57:21.520
and on landing grounds,

0:57:21.520,0:57:25.660
and we will be convinced[br]that just as you won

0:57:25.660,0:57:27.265
the war against

0:57:27.265,0:57:30.295
a particular threat[br]to civilization,

0:57:30.295,0:57:31.810
you were[br]nevertheless waging

0:57:31.810,0:57:33.670
a war in favor of than

0:57:33.670,0:57:37.180
for the benefit of[br]Germans, your own enemies,

0:57:37.180,0:57:39.520
just as we are convinced[br]that if it should

0:57:39.520,0:57:41.960
ever come to that kind[br]of a confrontation,

0:57:41.960,0:57:43.420
our own determination to

0:57:43.420,0:57:44.860
win the struggle will be

0:57:44.860,0:57:46.210
a determination to wage

0:57:46.210,0:57:48.010
a war not only for whites,

0:57:48.010,0:58:21.760
but also for[br]negroes [APPLAUSE]

0:58:21.760,0:58:22.390
>> Will the tellers

0:58:22.390,0:58:24.355
take their places, please?

0:58:24.355,0:58:26.890
They voted in favor[br]of the motion,

0:58:26.890,0:58:28.660
the motion being at[br]the American dreams

0:58:28.660,0:58:30.010
at the expense[br]of the negro.

0:58:30.010,0:58:31.450
They voted in favor[br]of that motion,

0:58:31.450,0:58:35.890
544 persons and[br]against 164 persons.

0:58:35.890,0:58:38.665
The motion is therefore[br]carried by 380 votes.

0:58:38.665,0:58:40.030
I declare the[br]House to stand

0:58:40.030,0:58:58.675
adjourned. [APPLAUSE]