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[music]
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Narrator: The following program is from NET: [br]The National Educational Television Network.
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Debate, James Baldwin Vs William Buckley.[br]Subject, "Has the American Dream Been
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Achieved at the Expense of the American [br]Negro?"
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This debate was held recently at the [br]Cambridge Union, Cambridge University
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England, and was recorded for use by NET.[br]
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Norman St. John Stevas, M.P: [br]Well, here we are in the debating hall
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of the Cambridge Union, hundreds of[br]undergraduates and myself waiting for what
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could prove one of the most exciting [br]debates in the whole 150 years of the
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union history. [br]It really... I don't think I have ever
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seen the union so well attended.[br]There are undergraduates everywhere.
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They're on the benches and on the floor[br]and on the galleries. And there are a lot
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more outside clambering to get in.[br]Well, the motion that has drawn this huge
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crowd tonight is this: That the American[br]Dream has been achieved at the expense
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of the American negro. The debate will [br]open with two undergraduate speakers,
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one from each side, and then we shall[br]have the first distinguished guest,
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Mr James Baldwin. The well-known American[br]novelist who has achieved a world wide
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fame with his novel "Another Country."[br]Then opposing the motion will be
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Mr. William Buckley, also an American.[br]Very well-known as a conservative in the
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United States. I must stress a conservative[br]in the American sense. Author of a book
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called "Up from Liberalism" and editor of[br]the National Review. One of the earliest
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reporters of Senator Goldwater.[br]Well, this is the setting of the debate,
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and at any moment now, the president[br]will be leading in his officers and his
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distinguished guests. He will take his [br]chair, and the debate will begin.
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[applause]
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President: The motion before the house [br]tonight is "The American Dream at the
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Expense of the American Negro." The proposer,[br]Mr. David Haycock of Pembroke College,
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and our opposer, Mr. Jeremy Burford of [br]Emmanuel College. Mr. James Baldwin
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will speak third. Mr William F. Buckley Jr. [br]will speak fourth. Mr. Heycock has the
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ear of the house.
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[applause]
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David Heycock: Mr. President, sir, it is[br]the custom of the house for the first
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speaker in any debate to extend a[br]formal welcome to any visitors to the
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house. I can honestly say, however, it is[br]a very great honor to be able to welcome
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to the house this evening Mr. William[br]Buckley and Mr. James Baldwin.
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Mr. William Buckley has the reputation[br]of possibly being the most articulate
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conservative in the United States of[br]America. He was a graduate of Yale,
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and he first gained a reputation for[br]himself by publishing a book entitled
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"God and Man at Yale."
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[laughter]
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Since then, he has devoted himself to[br]the secular, and this has included
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Norman Mailer, Kenneth Tynan, Mary McCarthy,[br]and Fidel Castro, none of whom have come
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out of their confrontations unscathed.
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[laughter]
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At present, his principle occupation is[br]editing a right-wing newspaper in the
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United States entitled [br]"The National Review."
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Mr. James Baldwin is hardly in need of[br]introduction. His reputation both as a
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novelist and as an advocate of civil rights[br]is international. His third novel
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"Another Country" has been published as[br]a paperback in England today. Mr. Baldwin
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and Mr. Buckley are both very welcome to [br]the house this evening.
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[applause]
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Imagine Mr. President, a society which[br]above all values freedom and equality.
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A society in which artificial barriers to[br]fulfillment and achievement are unheard
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of. A society in which a man may begin his[br]life as a rail splitter and end it as president.
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A society in which all men are free in[br]every sense of the word. Free to live
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where they choose. Free to work where they[br]choose. Equal in the eyes of the law and
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every public authority. And equal in the eyes[br]of their fellows. A society in fact which
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intollerence and prejudice are meaningless[br]terms. Imagine; however, Mr. President, a
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condition of this utopia has been a [br]persistent and quite deliberate
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exploitation of one ninth of its [br]inhabitants. That one man in nine has
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been denied those rights, which the rest [br]of that society takes for granted.
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That one man in nine does not have[br]a chance for fulfillment or realization
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of his innate potentiality. That one [br]man in nine cannot promise his
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children a secure future and unlimited[br]opportunities. Imagine this Mr. President
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and you have, what is in my opinion,[br]the bitter reality of the American Dream.
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A few weeks ago Martin Luther King had[br]to hold a non-violent demonstration in
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Selma, Alabama in his drive to register [br]negro voters. By the end of the week
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of his demonstrations, he was able to[br]write quite accurately in a national
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fundraising letter from Selma, Alabama[br]jail, "There are more negros in prison
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with me than there are on the voting[br]roles." When King wrote that letter,
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three-hundred and thirty-five out of [br]thirty-two-thousand-seven-hundred
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negros in Dallas had the vote. [br]One percent of the Dallas population.
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After a mass march to the court house,[br]two-hundred-and-thirty-seven negros,
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King among them, were arrested.[br]The following day, four-hundred-and
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seventy children, who had deserted [br]their classrooms to protest against
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King's arrest, were charged with juvenile[br]delinquency.
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[laughter]
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Thirty-six adults on the same day were[br]charged with contempt of court for
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picketing the court house while [br]state circuit court was in session.
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On the following day, a hundred-and[br]eleven people were arrested on the
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same charge despite their claim that [br]they merely wanted to see the voting
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registrar. Four-hundred students were[br]arrested and taken to the armory,
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where many of them spent the night[br]on a cold cement floor. The following
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date the demonstrations spread to [br]Marion, Alabama. In Marion, negros
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outnumbered whites by eleven-and[br]a-half thousand to six-thousand people
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and yet, only three hundred are registered[br]to vote. Negros in Marion were anxious
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to test the public accommodations section[br]of the civil rights law. They entered a
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drug store and there they were served [br]with Coca Cola laced with salt and were
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told that hamburgers had risen to five [br]dollars each. After the arrest of fifteen
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negros for protesting against this[br]treatment, seven hundred negros
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boycotted their classes the next day[br]and marched in orderly fashion to the
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jail. There, they sang civil rights songs[br]until they were warned by a state trooper
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that they would be arrested if they sung[br]one more song. Of course, they sung
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another song, and of course, all seven [br]hundred were arrested. American
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society has felt fit to use negro labor.[br]It has felt fit to use the blood of the
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negro in two world wars. It has felt fit to[br]listen to his music. It has felt fit to laugh
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at his jokes, and yet, as far as I am[br]concerned, it has never felt fit to
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give the American negro a fair deal;[br]and for this reason Mr. President,
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I will beg leave to propose the motion[br]that the American dream is at the expense
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of the American negro.
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[applause]
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President: I now call Mr. Jeremy Burford of Emmanuel College to oppose the motion.
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[applause]
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Narrator: Now, we have Mr. Jeremy [br]Burford of Emmanuel College who
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is the first undergraduate opposing[br]the motion.
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Jeremy Burford: James Baldwin is well [br]known as one of the most vivid and
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articulate writers about the negro[br]problem in America. Mr. Baldwin
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had a difficult childhood, and he [br]has personally himself suffered
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discrimination and ill treatment [br]of a sort in America, and I would
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like to say at this time that it is[br]not the purpose of this side of
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the house to condone that in any[br]way at all. It is not our purpose to
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oppose civil rights. It is our purpose[br]to oppose this motion. [audience: here here]
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[laughter]
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Thank you, sir. Come and collect [br]your fee afterwards.
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[laughter and applause]
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This side of the house denies that the[br]American dream has in any way been
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helped by this undoubted inequality [br]and suffering of the negro.
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We maintain that in fact this has hindered[br]the American Dream, and if there had
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been equality, if there had been true [br]freedom of opportunity, the American
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dream would be very much more advance[br]than it is now. If the American dream has
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made any progress, and I think it has, [br]it has been made in spite of the suffering
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and inequality of the American negro and[br]not because of it. Now it is also implied
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in this motion that the American Dream is[br]encouraging and worsening the suffering
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of the American negro. This is emphatically[br]not the case. The American Dream,
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the American economic prosperity and[br]respect for civil liberties has been the
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main factor in bringing about the undoubted[br]improvement in race relations in America
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in the last twenty years; and Professor [br]Arnold Rose who was the author of the "Negro
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in America," which is perhaps the definitive[br]work on the subject, who is also a
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contributor of what is called "The Freedom[br]Pamphlet". So I should imagine if he has
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any bias at all, it is in favor of the negro.[br]He's said that this improvement in race
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relations will be seen in years to come as[br]remarkably quick, and he has put it down
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to three main causes: increased[br]industrialization and technical advance,
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the increased social mobility of the[br]American people, and the economic
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prosperity. And I would put it to this[br]house that that industrialization and
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economic prosperity are two of the main[br]ingredients of the American dream and
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at the same time--again, I do not want to[br]say that the negro in America is treated
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fairly--but at the same time, the average[br]per capita income of negros in America
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is exactly the same as the average per[br]capita income of people in Great Britain.
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Now, I found that absolutely amazing.[br][laughter]
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[laughter][br]I understand that some of you do as well;
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So I've got the reference here from the[br]United States News and World Report
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of July the 22nd 1963, in which it points[br]out- [Man in the audience interrupts]
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This will have to be the last interruption [br]I take because time is running short.
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Audience member: Mr. President. Now a[br]point of information, is this being a talking
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of real income or money income? [br][Audience: here here, applause.]
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I am talking of money income. I would not[br]wish to disguise that. I would also say that
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in terms of this, there are only five [br]countries in the world where the income[br]
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is higher than that of the American negro,[br]and they do not include countries like
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West Germany and France and Japan.[br]Now, there are in America thirty-five
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negro millionaires. There are negro six thousand[br]doctors and so on. Now I do not by saying
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this wish to emphasize that the negro is[br]fairly treated. I merely wish to try and
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convey a more realistic and objective[br]account of the situation of the negro.
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I agree that there are negros who are[br]very poor indeed, such as the old
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gentlemen in the south who was talking[br]about some of his wealthier brethren and
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he was saying "Yes. Some of these rich [br]negros they put on airs like the bottom
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figure of a fetch, and the bigger they try[br]to be, the smaller they really are."
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I would repeat Mr. President, sir, in the [br]last minute I have that this debate
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is not whether civil rights should be[br]extended to American negros or not;
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if it were, it would be a very easy [br]motion to argue for and a very easy
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motion to vote for. The debate tonight[br]concerns whether the American Dream
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is at the expense of the American negro.[br]That is where the American negro has paid
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for the American dream with a suffering[br]or whether the American dream has
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furthered negro inequality, and[br]I would deny those things to precept.
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I would say that negro inequality has[br]hindered the American dream, and
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I would say that the American dream[br]has been very important indeed in
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furthering civil rights and in furthering[br]freedom for the American negro.
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Mr. President, sir, I beg to oppose [br]the motion.
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[applause]
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President: It is now with very[br]great pleasure and a very great sense of
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honor that I call Mr. James Baldwin[br]to speak third to this motion.
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[applause]
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Narrator: Now we have Mr. James Baldwin,[br]the star of the evening, who has been [br]
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sitting, listening attentively and getting[br]a wonderful reception here in the
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Cambridge Union. From members, enthusiasm from all sides of the house for
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Mr. Baldwin, who has been listening to the arguments. Now will bring the voice of actual
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experience to the debate.
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James Baldwin: Good evening.
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[laughter]
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I find myself, not for the first time, in [br]the position of a kind of Jeremiah.
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For example, I don’t disagree with [br]Mr. Burford that the inequality
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suffered by the American Negro [br]population of the United States has hindered
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the American dream. Indeed, it has.
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I quarrell with some other things he [br]has to say. The other, deeper, element of
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a certain awkwardness I feel has to do [br]with one’s point of view.
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I have to put it that way – one’s sense, [br]one’s system of reality.
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It would seem to me the proposition [br]before the House, and I would put it
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that way, is the American Dream at the [br]expense of the American Negro,
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or the American Dream is at [br]the expense of the American Negro.
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Is a question hideously loaded, [br]and then one’s response to that question
0:15:46.506,0:15:52.515
– one’s reaction to that question – [br]has to depend on effect and, in effect,
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where you find yourself in the world, [br]what your sense of reality is,
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what your system of reality is. [br]That is, it depends on assumptions which
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we hold so deeply as to [br]be scarcely aware of them.
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Are white South African or [br]Mississippi sharecropper, or
0:16:12.812,0:16:18.572
Mississippi sheriff, or a Frenchman [br]driven out of Algeria, all have, at bottom,
0:16:18.572,0:16:24.616
a system of reality which compels [br]them to, for example, in the case of the
0:16:24.616,0:16:30.096
French exile from Algeria, to offend [br]French reasons from having ruled Algeria.
0:16:30.096,0:16:34.401
The Mississippi or Alabama sheriff, [br]who really does believe, when he’s facing
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a Negro boy or girl, that this woman, [br]this man, this child must be insane to
0:16:40.600,0:16:45.027
attack the system to which he owes [br]his entire identity. Of course, to
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such a person, the proposition which [br]we are trying to discuss here tonight
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does not exist. And on the other hand, [br]I, have to speak as one of the people
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who’ve been most attacked by what [br]we must now here call the Western or
0:17:07.285,0:17:14.634
European system of reality. What white [br]people in the world, what we call
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white supremacy – I hate to say it here [br]– comes from Europe.
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That's how it got to America. Beneath [br]then, whatever one’s reaction to this
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proposition is, has to be the question [br]of whether or not civilizations can
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be considered, as such, equal, or [br]whether one’s civilization has the right
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to overtake and subjugate, and, in fact, [br]to destroy another.
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Now, what happens when that happens. [br]Leaving aside all the physical facts which
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one can quote. Leaving aside rape [br]or murder. Leaving aside the bloody
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catalog of oppression, which we [br]are in one way too familiar with already,
0:17:59.651,0:18:04.816
what this does to the subjugated, [br]the most private, the most serious
0:18:04.816,0:18:09.994
thing this does to the subjugated, [br]is to destroy his sense of reality.
0:18:09.994,0:18:16.124
It destroys, for example, his father’s [br]authority over him. His father can no
0:18:16.285,0:18:19.792
longer tell him anything, because [br]the past has disappeared, and his
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father has no power in the world. [br]This means, in the case of an
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American Negro, born in that [br]glittering republic, and the moment you
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are born, since you don’t [br]know any better,
0:18:32.076,0:18:36.013
every stick and stone and [br]every face is white.
0:18:36.013,0:18:39.614
And since you have not yet seen [br]a mirror, you suppose that you
0:18:39.614,0:18:47.535
are, too. It comes as a great shock [br]around the age of 5, or 6, or 7, to
0:18:47.535,0:18:51.158
discover the flag to which [br]you have pledged allegiance, along with
0:18:51.158,0:18:56.006
everybody else, has not pledged [br]allegiance to you. It comes as a
0:18:56.006,0:18:59.229
great shock to discover that Gary [br]Cooper killing off the Indians, when you
0:18:59.229,0:19:06.499
were rooting for Gary Cooper, [br]that the Indians were you. It comes as a
0:19:06.499,0:19:11.172
great shock to discover the [br]country which is your birthplace and to
0:19:11.172,0:19:17.078
which you owe your life and your identity,[br]has not, in its whole system of reality,
0:19:17.078,0:19:24.594
evovled any place for you. The [br]disaffection, the demoralization, and the
0:19:24.594,0:19:29.794
gap between one person and another [br]only on the basis of the color of their
0:19:29.794,0:19:35.977
skin, begins there and accelerates [br]– accelerates throughout a whole lifetime
0:19:35.977,0:19:40.338
– to the present when you realize [br]you’re thirty and are having a terrible
0:19:40.338,0:19:48.176
time managing to trust your [br]countrymen. By the time you are thirty,
0:19:48.176,0:19:55.654
you have been through a certain [br]kind of mill. And the most serious effect
0:19:55.654,0:19:59.839
of the mill you’ve been through is, [br]again, not the catalog of disaster,
0:19:59.839,0:20:07.137
the policemen, the taxi drivers, [br]the waiters, the landlady, the landlord,
0:20:07.137,0:20:12.354
the banks, the insurance companies, [br]the millions of details, twenty four
0:20:12.448,0:20:17.492
hours of every day, which spell [br]out to you that you are a worthless
0:20:17.492,0:20:23.185
human being. It is not that. It’s by [br]that time you’ve begun to see
0:20:23.185,0:20:28.373
it happening, in your daughter or your [br]son, or your niece or your nephew.
0:20:28.373,0:20:33.370
You are thirty by now and nothing you [br]have done has helped you to
0:20:33.370,0:20:38.134
escape the trap. But what is worse [br]than that, is that nothing you
0:20:38.134,0:20:44.076
have done, and as far as you can tell, [br]nothing you can do, will save your
0:20:44.076,0:20:49.721
son or your daughter from meeting [br]the same disaster and not
0:20:49.721,0:20:58.956
impossibly coming to the same [br]end. Now, we’re speaking about
0:20:58.956,0:21:06.189
expense. I suppose there are [br]several ways to address oneself,
0:21:06.189,0:21:15.707
to some attempt to find what that [br]word means here. Let me put it
0:21:15.707,0:21:23.042
this way, that from a very literal [br]point of view, the harbors and the
0:21:23.042,0:21:30.992
ports, and the railroads of the [br]country–the economy,
0:21:30.992,0:21:39.966
especially of the Southern [br]states–could not conceivably be
0:21:39.966,0:21:45.639
what it has become, if they had [br]not had, and do not still have,
0:21:45.639,0:21:55.215
indeed, for so long, for many generations,[br]cheap labor. I am stating very
0:21:55.215,0:22:02.754
seriously, and this is not an [br]overstatement: I picked the cotton,
0:22:02.754,0:22:13.254
and I carried it to the market, [br]and I built the railroads under
0:22:13.254,0:22:19.737
someone else’s whip for nothing. [br]For nothing.
0:22:19.737,0:22:26.815
The Southern oligarchy, which has [br]still today so much power in
0:22:26.815,0:22:31.384
Washington, and therefore some [br]power in the world, was created
0:22:31.384,0:22:37.217
by my labor and my sweat, and the [br]violation of my women and the murder of
0:22:37.217,0:22:45.359
my children. This, in the land of [br]the free, and the home of the brave.
0:22:45.359,0:22:50.604
And no one can challenge that statement. [br]It is a matter of historical record.
0:22:50.604,0:22:59.645
In another way, this dream, and we’ll [br]get to the dream in a moment,
0:22:59.645,0:23:06.581
is at the expense of the American [br]Negro. You watched this in the Deep South
0:23:06.581,0:23:15.426
in great relief. But not only in the [br]Deep South. In the Deep South, you
0:23:15.426,0:23:17.997
are dealing with a sheriff or a [br]landlord, or a landlady or the
0:23:17.997,0:23:28.204
girl of the Western Union desk, and [br]she doesn’t know quite who she’s
0:23:28.204,0:23:31.666
dealing with, by which I mean, [br]that if you’re not a part of the town,
0:23:31.666,0:23:38.514
and if you are a Nothern Nigger, [br]it shows in millions of ways.
0:23:38.514,0:23:43.550
So she simply knows that it’s an [br]unknown quantity, and she wants to
0:23:43.550,0:23:46.730
have nothing to do with it because [br]she won’t talk to you, you have
0:23:46.730,0:23:49.790
to wait for a while to get your [br]telegram. OK, we all know this.
0:23:49.790,0:23:54.005
We've been through it and, by the [br]time you get to be a man, it’s very easy
0:23:54.005,0:23:57.683
to deal with. But what is happening in [br]the poor woman, the poor man’s mind is
0:23:57.683,0:24:06.474
this: they’ve been raised to believe, [br]and by now they helplessly believe,
0:24:06.474,0:24:11.743
that no matter how terrible their lives [br]may be, and their lives have been
0:24:11.743,0:24:17.154
quite terrible, and no matter how [br]far they fall, no matter what disaster
0:24:17.154,0:24:19.986
overtakes them, they have one [br]enormous knowledge in
0:24:19.986,0:24:24.856
consolation, which is like a heavenly [br]revelation: at least, they are not Black.
0:24:24.856,0:24:33.504
Now I suggest that of all the terrible [br]things that can happen to a
0:24:33.504,0:24:37.840
human being, that is one of the worst. [br]I suggest that what has happened
0:24:37.840,0:24:42.045
to white Southerners, is in some ways, [br]after all, much worse than
0:24:42.045,0:24:51.624
what has happened to Negroes [br]there, because Sheriff Clark in
0:24:51.624,0:24:58.932
Selma, Alabama, cannot be considered [br]– you know, no one can be
0:24:58.932,0:25:00.728
dismissed as a total monster.
0:25:00.728,0:25:05.498
I’m sure he loves his wife, his children. [br]I’m sure, you know, he likes to
0:25:05.498,0:25:11.577
get drunk. You know, after all, one’s got [br]to assume he is visibly a man like me.
0:25:11.577,0:25:21.348
But he doesn’t know what drives [br]him to use the club, to menace with the
0:25:21.348,0:25:25.224
gun, and to use the cattle prod. [br]Something awful must have happened to
0:25:25.224,0:25:28.793
a human being to be able to put [br]a cattle prod against a
0:25:28.793,0:25:32.464
woman’s breasts, for example. [br]What happens to the woman is ghastly.
0:25:32.464,0:25:37.933
What happens to the man who [br]does it is in some ways much, much worse.
0:25:37.933,0:25:47.352
This is being done, after all, not a [br]hundred years ago, but in 1965, in a
0:25:47.473,0:25:51.884
country which is blessed with what we call[br]prosperity, a word we won’t examine
0:25:51.884,0:25:59.194
too closely; with a certain kind of [br]social coherence, which calls itself a
0:25:59.194,0:26:04.658
civilized nation, and which espouses [br]the notion of the freedom of the
0:26:04.658,0:26:10.466
world. And it is perfectly true from [br]the point of view now
0:26:10.466,0:26:16.335
simply of an American Negro. Any American [br]Negro watching this, no matter
0:26:16.335,0:26:19.504
where he is, from the vantage point of [br]Harlem, which is another terrible
0:26:19.504,0:26:24.494
place, has to say to himself, in spite of [br]what the government says
0:26:24.494,0:26:29.488
– the government says we can’t do [br]anything about it – but if those were
0:26:29.488,0:26:33.962
white people being murdered in [br]Mississippi work farms, being carried
0:26:33.962,0:26:37.784
off to jail, if those were white children [br]running up and down the streets,
0:26:37.784,0:26:41.303
the government would find some [br]way of doing something about it.
0:26:41.303,0:26:45.464
We have a civil rights bill now [br]where an amendment, the
0:26:45.464,0:26:49.444
fifteenth amendment, nearly a hundred [br]years ago – I hate to sound again
0:26:49.444,0:26:52.438
like an Old Testament prophet – [br]but if the amendment was not
0:26:52.438,0:26:55.646
honored then, I would have any [br]reason to believe in the civil rights
0:26:55.646,0:26:57.286
bill will be honored now.
0:26:57.286,0:27:02.424
And after all one’s been there, since [br]before, you know, a lot of other
0:27:02.424,0:27:10.122
people got there. If one has got to [br]prove one’s title to the land, isn’t
0:27:10.122,0:27:15.440
four hundred years enough? Four [br]hundred years? At least three wars?
0:27:17.040,0:27:20.372
The American soil is full of the [br]corpses of my ancestors.
0:27:20.633,0:27:25.772
Why is my freedom or my citizenship, [br]or my right to live there, how
0:27:25.772,0:27:31.741
is it conceivably a question now? [br]And I suggest further, and in the
0:27:31.741,0:27:37.328
same way, the moral life of Alabama [br]sheriffs and poor Alabama ladies
0:27:37.328,0:27:41.729
– white ladies – their moral lives [br]have been destroyed by the
0:27:41.729,0:27:47.322
plague called color, that the American [br]sense of reality has been corrupted by it.
0:27:47.322,0:27:53.366
At the risk of sounding excessive, [br]what I always felt, when I finally
0:27:53.366,0:27:58.369
left the country, and found myself abroad, [br]in other places, and watched
0:27:58.369,0:28:03.409
the Americans abroad – and these are [br]my countrymen – and I do
0:28:03.409,0:28:08.115
care about them, and even if I didn’t, [br]there is something between us.
0:28:08.115,0:28:14.823
We have the same shorthand, I know, [br]if I look at a boy or a girl from
0:28:14.823,0:28:18.162
Tennessee, where they came from in [br]Tennessee, and what that means.
0:28:18.162,0:28:21.962
No Englishman knows that. No Frenchmen.[br]No one in the world knows that except
0:28:21.962,0:28:24.342
another black man who comes [br]from the same place.
0:28:25.262,0:28:32.852
One watches these lonely people.[br]Denying the only kin they have.
0:28:32.852,0:28:36.432
We talk about integration in America[br]as thought it were some great new [br]
0:28:36.432,0:28:40.622
conundrum. The problem in America[br]is that we have been integrated for
0:28:40.622,0:28:46.717
a very long time. Put me next to any [br]African and you will see what I mean.
0:28:46.717,0:28:52.607
My grandmother was not a racist.[br]What we are not facing ...
0:28:54.647,0:28:58.732
is the results of what we've done.
0:28:58.732,0:29:04.952
What one begs the American people to do[br]for all our sakes is simply to
0:29:04.952,0:29:07.542
accept our history.
0:29:07.542,0:29:12.052
I was there not only as a slave[br]but also as a concubine. [br]
0:29:12.072,0:29:16.792
One knows the power afterall which [br]can be used against another person
0:29:16.792,0:29:18.922
who has absolute power over [br]that person.
0:29:21.872,0:29:24.602
It seemed to me when I watched [br]Americans in Europe what they
0:29:24.778,0:29:30.863
didn’t know about Europeans was [br]what they didn’t know about me.
0:29:30.863,0:29:34.545
They weren’t trying, for example, to be [br]nasty to the French girl, or
0:29:34.545,0:29:39.312
rude to the French waiter. They [br]didn’t know they hurt their feelings.
0:29:39.312,0:29:43.715
They didn’t have any sense this [br]particular woman, this particular man,
0:29:43.715,0:29:46.246
though they spoke another language [br]and had different manners
0:29:46.246,0:29:51.284
and ways, was a human being. And [br]they walked over them, the same kind
0:29:51.284,0:29:59.628
of bland ignorance, condescension, [br]charming and cheerful with which
0:29:59.628,0:30:03.833
they’ve always patted me on the head [br]and called me Shine and were upset
0:30:03.833,0:30:14.739
when I was upset. What is relevant [br]about this is that whereas forty years ago
0:30:14.739,0:30:22.549
when I was born, the question of having [br]to deal with what is unspoken
0:30:22.549,0:30:28.049
by the subjugated, what is never said [br]to the master, of ever
0:30:28.049,0:30:31.456
having to deal with this reality [br]was a very remote possibility.
0:30:31.456,0:30:35.403
It was in no one’s mind. When I was[br]growing up, I was taught in
0:30:35.403,0:30:39.665
American history books, that Africa had[br]no history, and neither did I.
0:30:39.665,0:30:47.902
That I was a savage about whom the less [br]said, the better, who had been
0:30:47.902,0:30:55.587
saved by Europe and brought to America. [br]And, of course, I believed it.
0:30:55.587,0:31:01.293
I didn’t have much choice. [br]Those were the only books there were.
0:31:01.293,0:31:05.322
Everyone else seemed to agree.
0:31:05.322,0:31:09.842
If you walk out of Harlem, ride out [br]of Harlem, downtown, the world
0:31:09.842,0:31:15.402
agrees what you see is much bigger, [br]cleaner, whiter, richer, safer
0:31:15.402,0:31:21.621
than where you are. They collect [br]the garbage. People obviously can
0:31:21.621,0:31:25.312
pay their life insurance. Their children [br]look happy, safe. You’re not.
0:31:25.312,0:31:31.289
And you go back home, and it would [br]seem that, of course, that it’s an act
0:31:31.289,0:31:38.527
of God that this is true! That you [br]belong where white people have put you.
0:31:38.527,0:31:45.403
It is only since the Second World War, [br]that there’s been a
0:31:45.403,0:31:48.872
counter-image in the world. And that [br]image did not come about through
0:31:48.872,0:31:53.807
any legislation or part of any[br]American government, but through
0:31:53.807,0:32:01.776
the fact that Africa was suddenly [br]on the stage of the world, and Africans
0:32:01.776,0:32:05.196
had to be dealt with in a way they’d [br]never been dealt with before.
0:32:05.196,0:32:09.688
This gave an American Negro for [br]the first time a sense of himself
0:32:09.688,0:32:19.728
beyond the savage or a clown. It has [br]created and will create a great
0:32:19.728,0:32:24.810
many conundrums. One of the great [br]things that the white world
0:32:24.810,0:32:29.615
does not know, but I think I do know, [br]is that Black people are just like
0:32:29.615,0:32:34.386
everybody else. One has used the [br]myth of Negro and the myth of color
0:32:34.386,0:32:39.288
to pretend and to assume that you [br]were dealing with, essentially,
0:32:39.288,0:32:43.755
with something exotic, bizarre, [br]and practically, according to human laws,
0:32:43.755,0:32:49.074
unknown. Alas, it is not true. [br]We’re also mercenaries,
0:32:49.074,0:32:54.662
dictators, murderers, liars. [br]We are human too.
0:32:54.662,0:33:01.279
What is crucial here is that unless [br]we can manage to accept, establish
0:33:01.279,0:33:08.420
some kind of dialog between those [br]people whom I pretend have paid
0:33:08.420,0:33:14.790
for the American dream and those [br]other people who have not achieved it,
0:33:14.790,0:33:23.362
we will be in terrible trouble. I want [br]to say, at the end, the last, is that is
0:33:23.362,0:33:28.335
that is what concerns me most. We are [br]sitting in this room, and we are all,
0:33:28.335,0:33:32.347
at least I’d like to think we are, [br]relatively civilized, and we can talk to
0:33:32.347,0:33:38.717
each other at least on certain levels [br]so that we could walk out of here
0:33:38.717,0:33:43.213
assuming that the measure of our [br]enlightenment, or at least, our
0:33:43.213,0:33:46.655
politeness, has some effect on [br]the world. It may not.
0:33:46.655,0:33:53.298
I remember, for example, when the [br]ex Attorney General, Mr. Robert Kennedy,
0:33:53.298,0:34:01.239
said that it was conceivable that in [br]forty years, in America, we might have
0:34:01.239,0:34:08.079
a Negro president. That sounded [br]like a very emancipated statement,
0:34:08.079,0:34:14.008
I suppose, to white people. They were [br]not in Harlem when this statement
0:34:14.008,0:34:19.648
was first heard. And did not hear, [br]and possibly will never hear the laughter
0:34:19.648,0:34:22.129
and the bitterness, and the scorn [br]with which this statement was greeted.
0:34:22.129,0:34:25.860
From the point of view of the man [br]in the Harlem barber shop, Bobby Kennedy
0:34:25.860,0:34:32.506
only got here yesterday, and he’s [br]already on his way to the presidency.
0:34:32.506,0:34:36.837
We’ve been here for four hundred [br]years and now he tells us that maybe
0:34:36.837,0:34:42.541
in forty years, if you’re good, [br]we may let you become president.
0:34:42.541,0:34:52.922
What is dangerous here is the turning [br]away from – the turning away from
0:34:52.922,0:34:59.499
– anything any white American says. [br]The reason for the political hesitation,
0:34:59.499,0:35:03.694
in spite of the Johnson landslide is [br]that one has been betrayed by American
0:35:03.694,0:35:08.707
politicians for so long. And I am a [br]grown man and perhaps I can be
0:35:08.707,0:35:16.767
reasoned with. I certainly hope I can be. [br]But I don’t know, and neither does
0:35:16.767,0:35:21.254
Martin Luther King, none of us know [br]how to deal with those other people
0:35:21.254,0:35:24.191
whom the white world has so long [br]ignored, who don’t believe anything
0:35:24.191,0:35:30.688
the white world says and don’t entirely [br]believe anything I or Martin is saying.
0:35:30.688,0:35:34.891
And one can’t blame them. You watch [br]what has happened to them in less than
0:35:34.891,0:35:42.247
twenty years. It seems to me that the[br]City of New York, for example- this is
0:35:42.247,0:35:49.744
my last point – It’s had Negroes[br]in it for a very long time.
0:35:49.744,0:35:55.886
If the city of New York were able, as it [br]has indeed been able, in the last fifteen
0:35:55.886,0:36:01.029
years to reconstruct itself, tear down [br]buildings and raise great new ones,
0:36:01.029,0:36:07.829
downtown and for money, and has [br]done nothing whatever except build
0:36:07.829,0:36:15.299
housing projects in the ghetto for the [br]Negroes. And of course, Negroes hate it.
0:36:15.299,0:36:18.843
Presently the property does indeed [br]deteriorate because the children
0:36:18.843,0:36:24.941
cannot bear it. They want to get out [br]of the ghetto. If the American pretensions
0:36:24.941,0:36:33.617
were based on more solid, a more [br]honest assessment of life and of
0:36:33.617,0:36:39.094
themselves, it would not mean for Negroes [br]when someone says “Urban Renewal,”
0:36:39.094,0:36:41.859
that Negroes can simply be thrown[br]out into the streets.
0:36:41.859,0:36:45.345
This is just what it does mean now. [br]This is not an act of God. We’re
0:36:45.345,0:36:52.490
dealing with a society made and ruled [br]by men. Had the American Negro had not
0:36:52.490,0:36:56.239
been present in America, I am convinced [br]the history of the American labor
0:36:56.396,0:36:59.181
movement would be much [br]more edifying than it is.
0:36:59.181,0:37:05.783
It is a terrible thing for an entire [br]people to surrender to the notion
0:37:05.783,0:37:12.061
that one-ninth of its population is [br]beneath them. And until that moment,
0:37:12.061,0:37:18.277
until the moment comes when we, the [br]Americans, we, the American people,
0:37:18.277,0:37:23.305
are able to accept the fact, that I have [br]to accept, for example, that my ancestors
0:37:23.305,0:37:28.617
are both White and Black. That on that [br]continent we are trying to forge a new
0:37:28.617,0:37:34.814
identity for which we need each other [br]and that I am not a ward of America.
0:37:34.814,0:37:40.512
I am not an object of missionary[br]charity. I am one of the people who built
0:37:40.512,0:37:46.772
the country–until this moment, there is [br]scarcely any hope for the American dream,
0:37:46.772,0:37:54.498
because the people who are denied [br]participation in it, by their very
0:37:54.498,0:37:59.876
presence, will wreck it. And if that [br]happens, it is a very grave moment for
0:37:59.876,0:38:00.898
the West. Thank you.
0:38:00.898,0:38:22.267
[standing ovation, loud applause]
0:38:22.267,0:38:28.720
Narrator: Members. Moving moment now.[br]The whole of the union standing and[br]
0:38:28.720,0:38:34.945
applauding this magnificent speech of[br]James Baldwin. Never seen this happen
0:38:34.945,0:38:41.017
before in the union in all the years[br]that I have known it. Baldwin smiling,
0:38:41.017,0:38:46.493
obviously delighted by his reception,[br]tremendously moved by it.
0:38:46.493,0:39:05.103
[applause]
0:39:05.103,0:39:07.785
President: I am now very grateful [br]and very pleased to be
0:39:07.785,0:39:11.239
able to call Mr. William F Buckley Jr. to [br]speak forth to this motion.
0:39:11.239,0:39:20.254
[applause]
0:39:20.379,0:39:24.126
Narrator: Now we have Mr. William [br]Buckley, who will need all his skill to
0:39:24.126,0:39:27.856
establish ascendancy over his audience, [br]which has clearly been so deeply
0:39:27.856,0:39:31.564
moved by the eloquence and personal [br]experience of the preceding speaker.
0:39:31.564,0:39:34.381
William Buckley: Thank you Mr. President, [br]Baldwin, Heycock, Burford, gentlemen.
0:39:39.391,0:39:47.316
It seems to me that of all the indictments[br]Mr. Baldwin has made of America[br]
0:39:47.402,0:39:58.894
here tonight and in his copious literature[br]of protest, the one that is of most
0:39:58.894,0:40:11.508
striking, involves in effect, the refusal[br]of the American community to treat
0:40:11.508,0:40:19.647
him other than as a negro. The [br]American community has refused to
0:40:19.647,0:40:27.534
do this. The American community[br]almost everywhere he goes treats
0:40:27.534,0:40:36.061
him with a kind of unction, of[br]a kind of satisfaction at posturing
0:40:36.061,0:40:44.648
carefully for his flagellation of [br]our civilization. That indeed, our
0:40:44.648,0:40:51.210
white populi commands the contempt[br]which he so eloquently showers upon us.
0:40:52.100,0:40:57.883
It is impossible in my judgment to deal[br]with the indictment of Mr. Baldwin
0:40:57.961,0:41:03.489
unless one is prepared to deal with him as[br]a white man. Unless one is prepared to
0:41:03.489,0:41:08.425
say to him the fact that your skin is [br]black is utterly irrelevant to the
0:41:08.425,0:41:14.304
arguments that you raised or the [br]fact that you sit here as is your
0:41:14.304,0:41:20.367
rhetorical devise and lay the entire[br]waves of the negro ordeal on your
0:41:20.367,0:41:26.410
own shoulders is irrelevant to the[br]argument that we are here to discuss.
0:41:29.070,0:41:36.242
The bravanmon of Mr. Baldwin's charges [br]against America are not so much that our
0:41:36.298,0:41:41.737
civilization has failed him or/and his [br]people. That our ideals are
0:41:41.737,0:41:48.772
insufficient or that we have no [br]ideals. That our ideals are rather
0:41:48.772,0:41:54.372
some sort of a superficial coating[br]of which we come up with at any
0:41:54.372,0:41:58.756
given moment in order to justify[br]our whatever commercial and
0:41:58.756,0:42:04.442
agnoxious experiment we are engaged[br]in. Of us, Mr. Baldwin can write his
0:42:04.442,0:42:10.362
book "The Fire Next Time," in which[br]he threatens America. He didn't
0:42:10.379,0:42:14.060
in writing that book speak with a[br]British accent that he used
0:42:14.193,0:42:17.700
exclusively tonight, in which he [br]threatened America with a
0:42:17.700,0:42:27.434
necessity for us to jettison...[br]for us to jettison our entire
0:42:27.434,0:42:32.945
civilization, the only thing that the[br]white man has that the negro should
0:42:33.001,0:42:36.015
want, he said is power.
0:42:36.525,0:42:42.060
And he is treated from coast to coast of [br]the United States with a kind of unctuous
0:42:42.060,0:42:46.664
[Narrator speaking over him: inaudible]
0:42:46.664,0:42:49.850
... that goes beyond anything that was[br]ever expected from some of the most
0:42:49.850,0:42:54.100
servile negro creature by a southern[br]family. I propose to pay him the honor
0:42:54.100,0:43:00.711
this night of saying to him, Mr. Baldwin,[br]I am going to speak to you without any
0:43:00.711,0:43:08.035
reference whatever to those surrounding[br]protections which you are used to
0:43:08.035,0:43:12.673
in virtue of the fact that you are a[br]negro. Here we need to ask the question,
0:43:12.673,0:43:17.132
what in fact shall we do about it,[br]Mr. President? What shall we in America
0:43:17.132,0:43:25.320
try to do? For instance, to eliminate [br]those psychic humiliations which I join
0:43:25.320,0:43:30.052
Mr. Baldwin in believing are the very[br]worst aspects of this discrimination.
0:43:30.052,0:43:35.344
You found it a source of considerable[br]merth to laugh away these statistics
0:43:35.344,0:43:39.820
of my colleague, Mr. Burford. I don't [br]think they are insignificant. They
0:43:39.820,0:43:45.010
certainly are not insignificant in a world[br]which attaches a considerable importance
0:43:45.010,0:43:53.252
to material progress. It is in fact the case[br]that seven-tenths of the white income
0:43:53.252,0:43:57.359
of the United States is equal to the [br]income that is made by the average
0:43:57.359,0:44:02.865
negro. I don't think this is an irrelevant [br]statistic, ladies and gentleman. It takes
0:44:02.865,0:44:06.796
the capitalization of fifteen, sixteen,[br]seventeen thousand dollars per job in the
0:44:06.796,0:44:12.317
United States. This is capitalization that[br]was not created exclusively as a result
0:44:12.387,0:44:17.627
of negro travail. My great grand parents[br]worked too, presumably yours worked
0:44:17.665,0:44:21.185
also. I don't know of anything that has [br]ever been created without the expense
0:44:21.343,0:44:25.529
of something. All of you who hope for a[br]diploma here are going to do that at the
0:44:25.529,0:44:30.108
expense of a considerable amount of [br]effort. And I would thank you to please
0:44:30.108,0:44:35.130
not to deny the fact that a considerable[br]amount of effort went into the production
0:44:35.130,0:44:40.026
of a system which grants a greater degree[br]of material well being to the American
0:44:40.026,0:44:44.129
negro. Other than that, that is enjoyed[br]by 95% of the other peoples' of the human
0:44:44.129,0:44:51.403
race. But even so, to the extent that [br]your withering laughter suggested that
0:44:51.403,0:44:56.969
you found this a contemptible [br]observation.I agree. I don't think it
0:44:56.969,0:45:01.532
matters that there are thirty-five [br]millionaires among the negro community
0:45:01.532,0:45:05.777
if there were thirty-five, if there were [br]twenty million millionaires among
0:45:05.777,0:45:10.277
the negro community of the United States,[br]I would still agree with you that we
0:45:10.277,0:45:16.931
have a dastardly situation. But I am [br]asking you not to make politics as
0:45:16.931,0:45:22.514
the crow flies, to use the fleeted phrase [br]of Professor Oakshock. Rather consider
0:45:22.514,0:45:26.927
what in fact is that we Americans ought [br]to do? What are your instructions that
0:45:26.927,0:45:31.228
I am to take back to the United States[br]my friend? I want to know what it is
0:45:31.228,0:45:37.283
that we should do and especially, I want [br]to know whether it is time in fact
0:45:37.283,0:45:41.037
to abandon the American Dream as it [br]has been defined by Mr. Heycock and
0:45:41.037,0:45:48.189
Mr. Burford. What in fact is it we[br]ought to do; for instance, to avoid
0:45:48.189,0:45:55.206
two humiliations mentioned by Mr. Baldwin [br]as being a part of his own experience
0:45:55.206,0:46:00.870
during his lifetime. At the age of twelve,[br]you will find on reading his book,
0:46:00.870,0:46:06.923
he trespassed outside the ghetto of [br]Harlem and was taken by the scruff of the
0:46:06.923,0:46:11.137
neck by a policeman on forty-second [br]street, Madison Avenue and said, "Here,
0:46:11.137,0:46:17.453
you nigger, go back to where you belong.[br]"Fifteen, twenty years later he goes in
0:46:17.453,0:46:24.470
and asks for a scotch whiskey at the [br]airport at Chicago and is told by the
0:46:24.470,0:46:30.330
white woman that he is obviously under-age[br]and under the circumstances, can't be [br]
0:46:30.330,0:46:35.023
served. I know. I know from your faces [br]that you share with me the feeling of
0:46:35.023,0:46:39.905
compassion and the feeling of outraged[br]that this kind of thing should have
0:46:39.905,0:46:44.181
happened. What in fact are we going to [br]do to this policeman and what in fact are
0:46:44.181,0:46:52.128
we going to do to this barman? How are we [br]going to avoid the kind of humiliations
0:46:52.128,0:46:58.413
that are perpetually visited on members[br]of the minority race. Obviously, the first
0:46:58.413,0:47:03.952
element is concern. We've got to[br]care that it happens. We've got to
0:47:03.952,0:47:09.387
do what we can to change the warp[br]and woof of moral thought in society
0:47:09.387,0:47:15.930
in such fashion as to try to make it [br]happen less and less. Let me urge this
0:47:15.930,0:47:19.870
point to you which I can do with [br]authority, my friends. The only thing that
0:47:19.951,0:47:25.830
I can tonight, and that is to tell you [br]that in the United States there is a
0:47:25.830,0:47:28.743
concern for the negro problem. Now[br]if you get up to me and
0:47:28.743,0:47:32.847
say- [laughter]
0:47:32.847,0:47:36.558
If you get up to me and say, [br]"Well is there now the kind of
0:47:36.558,0:47:40.920
concern that we, students of Cambridge, [br]would show if the problem were our
0:47:40.920,0:47:47.045
own?" All I can say is I don't know. [br]It may very well be that there has
0:47:47.045,0:47:54.602
been some sort of a sunburst of [br]moral enlightenment that has hit this
0:47:54.602,0:47:57.681
community so as to make it predictable [br]that if you were the
0:47:57.681,0:48:01.216
governors of the United States,[br]the situation would change overnight.
0:48:01.216,0:48:07.717
I am prepared to grant this as a [br]form of courtesy, Mr. President, but
0:48:07.717,0:48:13.791
meanwhile, I am saying to you that the [br]engines of concern in the United States
0:48:13.791,0:48:19.997
are working. The presence of Mr. Baldwin [br]here tonight is in part a reflection of
0:48:19.997,0:48:24.396
that concern. [audience members [br]yells out] You cannot go to a
0:48:24.396,0:48:29.351
university in the United States, a [br]university in the United States presumably
0:48:29.351,0:48:34.983
also governed by the lord spiritual as [br]you are, in which Mr. Baldwin is not the
0:48:34.983,0:48:40.010
toast of the town. You cannot go to a [br]university of the United States in which
0:48:40.193,0:48:45.116
practically all other problems of public[br]preempted by the primary policy of concern
0:48:46.116,0:48:49.766
for the negro. I challenge you to name[br]another civilization any time
0:48:50.766,0:48:55.468
anywhere in the history of the world [br]in which the problems of the minority,
0:48:55.468,0:49:00.567
which have been showing considerable[br]material and political advancement is as
0:49:00.567,0:49:06.475
much a subject of dramatic concern as it [br]is in the United States, but let me just
0:49:06.475,0:49:15.520
say finally, ladies and gentlemen, this. [br]There is no instant cure for the race
0:49:15.520,0:49:21.763
problem in America and anybody who tells[br]there is, is a charlatan and a boring man
0:49:21.763,0:49:27.743
Boring precisely because he is then[br]speaking the kind of abstractions that
0:49:27.743,0:49:33.430
do not relate to the human experience.[br]The trouble in America where the negro
0:49:33.430,0:49:38.706
community is concerned is a very[br]complicated one. I urge those of you
0:49:38.706,0:49:44.431
who have an actual rather than a [br]purely ideologized interest in the
0:49:44.431,0:49:50.514
problem to read the book "Beyond[br]the Melting Pot" by Professor Glazer,
0:49:50.514,0:49:56.830
also co-author of the "The Lonely Proud"[br]a prominent Jewish intellectual who
0:49:56.830,0:50:02.164
points at the fact that the situation in[br]America where the negros are concerned
0:50:02.164,0:50:08.619
is extremely complex as the result of an[br]unfortunate conjunction of two factors.
0:50:08.619,0:50:15.928
One is the dreadful efforts to perpetuate[br]discrimination by many individual American
0:50:15.928,0:50:21.910
citizens as a result of their lack of that[br]final and ultimate concern which some
0:50:21.910,0:50:27.317
people truly find agitate the other or is[br]as a result of a failure of the negro
0:50:27.317,0:50:35.034
community itself to make certain exertions[br]which were made by other minority groups
0:50:35.034,0:50:40.434
during the American experience. If you can[br]stand a statistic not of my own making,
0:50:40.434,0:50:45.514
let me give you one which Professor [br]Glazer considers as relevant. He says
0:50:45.514,0:50:51.747
for instance, in 1900 there were thirty-[br]five hundred negro doctors in America. In
0:50:51.747,0:50:57.200
1960, there were thirty-nine hundred. An [br]increase in four hundred. Is this because
0:50:57.200,0:51:02.164
there were no opportunities, as has been [br]suggested by Mr. Heycock and also by
0:51:02.164,0:51:07.324
Mr. Baldwin implicitly. "No," says[br]Professor Glazer. There are a great many
0:51:07.324,0:51:13.296
medical schools who by no means practice [br]discrimination, who are anxious to recieve
0:51:13.296,0:51:17.074
the trained negro doctors. There are [br]scholarships available to put them
0:51:17.074,0:51:21.908
through, but in fact that particular [br]energy which he remarks was so noticeable
0:51:21.908,0:51:25.895
in the Jewish community and to a certain [br]and lesser extent in the Italian and
0:51:25.895,0:51:31.586
Irish community for some reason is [br]not there. We should focus on the
0:51:31.586,0:51:36.094
necessity to animate this particular [br]energy, but he comes to the conclusion
0:51:36.094,0:51:39.716
which strikes me as plausible. The people [br]who can best do it most effectively
0:51:39.716,0:51:45.922
are negros themselves. Let me conclude[br]by reminding you, ladies and gentlemen
0:51:45.922,0:51:52.577
that where the negro is concerned, the [br]dangers are as far as I can see in this
0:51:52.577,0:51:57.884
moment is that they will seek to[br]reach out for some sort of radical
0:51:57.884,0:52:04.727
solutions on the basis of which the true [br]problem is obscured. They have done a
0:52:04.727,0:52:10.169
great deal to focus on the fact of white [br]discrimination against negros. They have
0:52:10.169,0:52:15.694
done a great deal to agitate a moral [br]concern, but where in fact do they go
0:52:15.694,0:52:21.037
now? They seem to be slipping, if you read[br]carefully for instance the words of Mr.
0:52:21.037,0:52:28.144
Bayard Rustin, toward some sort of a [br]procrustean formulation which ends up
0:52:28.144,0:52:32.848
less urging the advancement of the negro[br]than the regression of the white people.
0:52:32.848,0:52:38.364
Fourteen times as many people in New[br]York City born of negros are illegitimate
0:52:38.364,0:52:43.694
as of whites. This is a problem. How[br]should we address it? By seeking out laws
0:52:43.694,0:52:48.984
that encourage illegitimacy in white [br]people? This unfortunately tends to be[br]
0:52:49.194,0:52:52.860
the rhetorical momentum of some of the [br]arguments are taking. Audience member:[br]
0:52:52.860,0:52:57.120
One thing you might do Mr. Buckley is let[br]them vote in Mississippi. [applause]
0:52:57.120,0:53:07.244
Buckley: I couldn't agree with you more[br]and for, except, lest I appear too
0:53:07.244,0:53:12.452
ingratiating which is hardly my objective[br]here tonight. I think actually what is
0:53:12.452,0:53:16.750
wrong in Mississippi, sir, is not that not[br]enough negros are voting but there are
0:53:16.750,0:53:18.659
too many white people are voting.
0:53:18.659,0:53:25.661
[laughter]
0:53:25.661,0:53:33.316
Booker T. Washington said, "That the[br]important thing where negros are
0:53:33.316,0:53:37.989
concerned is not that they hold[br]public office, but they be prepared
0:53:37.989,0:53:42.417
to hold public office. Not that they vote,[br]but that they be prepared to vote.
0:53:42.417,0:53:44.898
What are we going to do with the[br]negros having taught the negros
0:53:44.898,0:53:49.929
in Mississippi to despise Barnett, [br]Ross Barnett, shall we then teach
0:53:49.929,0:53:53.720
them to emulate their cousins [br]in Harlem and adore Adam
0:53:53.720,0:53:58.538
Clayton Powell Jr.? It is much more[br]complicated, sir, then simply the
0:53:58.538,0:54:02.829
question of giving them the vote.[br]If I were myself a constituent of the
0:54:02.829,0:54:06.810
community of Mississippi at this moment,[br]what I would do is vote to lift the
0:54:06.810,0:54:12.124
standards of the vote so as to disqualify [br]sixty-five percent of the white people who
0:54:12.124,0:54:14.444
are presently voting, not simply...
0:54:14.444,0:54:19.784
[applause]
0:54:19.784,0:54:26.373
I say then what we need is a considerable[br]amount of frankness that acknowledges
0:54:26.373,0:54:31.624
there are two sets of difficulties, [br]the difficulties of the white person who
0:54:31.624,0:54:38.122
acts as white people, as brown people[br]and black people do all over the world to
0:54:38.122,0:54:42.709
protect their own vested interests, who[br]have as all the races in the entire world
0:54:42.709,0:54:50.349
have and suffer from a kind of racial [br]narcissism which tends always to
0:54:50.349,0:54:55.139
convert every contingency in such a way[br]to maximize their own power. That yes
0:54:55.139,0:55:00.620
we must do, but we must also reach [br]through to the negro people and tell them
0:55:00.620,0:55:05.982
that their best chances are in a mobile [br]society and the most mobile society
0:55:05.982,0:55:11.048
in the world today, my friends, is the [br]United States of America. The most
0:55:11.048,0:55:14.717
mobile society in the world is the [br]United States of America, and it is [br]
0:55:14.717,0:55:19.817
precisely that mobility which will give[br]opportunities to the negros which
0:55:19.817,0:55:24.778
they must be encouraged to take, but[br]they must not in the course of their
0:55:24.778,0:55:32.235
ordeal be encouraged to adopt the kind[br]of cynicism, the kind of despair, the kind
0:55:32.235,0:55:38.266
of iconoclasm that is urged upon them[br]by Mr. Baldwin in his recent works because
0:55:38.266,0:55:44.516
one thing I can tell you, I believe with [br]absolute authority that where the
0:55:44.516,0:55:50.654
United States is concerned, if it ever[br]becomes a confrontation between a
0:55:50.654,0:55:58.814
continuation of our own sort of idealism,[br]the private start of, which granted like
0:55:58.814,0:56:02.285
most people in the world, we tend to [br]lavish only every now and then on
0:56:02.285,0:56:06.694
public enterprises reserving it so often[br]for our own irritations and pleasures,
0:56:06.694,0:56:13.761
but the fundamental friend of the negro[br]people in the United States, is the good
0:56:13.761,0:56:21.002
nature and is the generosity and is the[br]good wishes, is the decency, the
0:56:21.002,0:56:26.908
fundamental decency that do lie at the [br]preserves of the spirit of the American
0:56:26.908,0:56:31.726
people. These must not be laughed at [br]and under no circumstances must they
0:56:31.726,0:56:36.723
be laughed at and under no circumstances[br]must America be addressed and told that
0:56:36.723,0:56:42.090
the only alternative to the status [br]quo is to overthrow that civilization
0:56:42.090,0:56:47.074
which we consider to be the faith[br]of our fathers, the faith indeed of
0:56:47.074,0:56:52.435
your fathers. This is what must[br]animate whatever meliorism that must
0:56:52.435,0:56:58.316
come because if it does finally come to [br]confrontation, a radical confrontation,
0:56:58.316,0:57:02.991
between giving up what we understand[br]to be the best features of the American
0:57:02.991,0:57:06.975
way of life, which at that level is [br]indistinguishable as far as I can see
0:57:06.975,0:57:11.324
from the European way of life, then[br]we will fight the issue and we will
0:57:11.324,0:57:15.561
fight the issue not only in the Cambridge[br]Union, but we will fight it as you were
0:57:15.561,0:57:19.882
once recently called to do on beaches[br]and on hills and on mountains and
0:57:19.882,0:57:24.665
on landing grounds and we will be [br]convinced that just as you won the
0:57:24.665,0:57:31.132
war against a particular threat to[br]civilization, you were nevertheless
0:57:31.132,0:57:36.186
waging a war in favor of and for [br]the benefit of Germans, your own
0:57:36.186,0:57:40.549
enemies, just as we are convinced that if [br]it should ever come to that kind of a
0:57:40.549,0:57:45.276
confrontation, our own determination [br]to win the struggle will be a
0:57:45.276,0:57:49.314
determination to wage a war not only for [br]whites but also for negros.
0:57:49.314,0:58:20.893
[long applause]
0:58:20.893,0:58:26.451
President: Will the tellers take [br]their places please. Voted in favor of the
0:58:26.451,0:58:29.715
motion, the motion being the American[br]Dream at the expense of the
0:58:29.715,0:58:33.989
negro voted in favor of that motion [br]five-hundred and-forty-four persons
0:58:33.989,0:58:37.212
and against, one hundred-and-sixty-four [br]persons. The motion is
0:58:37.212,0:58:40.374
therefore carried by three-hundred-eighty[br]votes and I declare the house
0:58:40.374,0:58:47.884
to stand adjourned. [applause]