WEBVTT
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[music]
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Narrator: The following program is from NET:
The National Educational Television Network.
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Debate, James Baldwin Vs William Buckley.
Subject, "Has the American Dream Been
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Achieved at the Expense of the American
Negro?"
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This debate was held recently at the
Cambridge Union, Cambridge University
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England, and was recorded for use by NET.
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Norman St. John Stevas, M.P:
Well, here we are in the debating hall
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of the Cambridge Union, hundreds of
undergraduates and myself waiting for what
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could prove one of the most exciting
debates in the whole 150 years of the
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union history.
It really... I don't think I have ever
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seen the union so well attended.
There are undergraduates everywhere.
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They're on the benches and on the floor
and on the galleries. And there are a lot
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more outside clambering to get in.
Well, the motion that has drawn this huge
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crowd tonight is this: That the American
Dream has been achieved at the expense
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of the American negro. The debate will
open with two undergraduate speakers,
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one from each side, and then we shall
have the first distinguished guest,
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Mr James Baldwin. The well-known American
novelist who has achieved a world wide
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fame with his novel "Another Country."
Then opposing the motion will be
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Mr. William Buckley, also an American.
Very well-known as a conservative in the
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United States. I must stress a conservative
in the American sense. Author of a book
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called "Up from Liberalism" and editor of
the National Review. One of the earliest
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reporters of Senator Goldwater.
Well, this is the setting of the debate,
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and at any moment now, the president
will be leading in his officers and his
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distinguished guests. He will take his
chair, and the debate will begin.
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[applause]
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President: The motion before the house
tonight is "The American Dream at the
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Expense of the American Negro." The proposer,
Mr. David Haycock of Pembroke College,
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and our opposer, Mr. Jeremy Burford of
Emmanuel College. Mr. James Baldwin
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will speak third. Mr William F. Buckley Jr.
will speak fourth. Mr. Heycock has the
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ear of the house.
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[applause]
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David Heycock: Mr. President, sir, it is
the custom of the house for the first
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speaker in any debate to extend a
formal welcome to any visitors to the
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house. I can honestly say, however, it is
a very great honor to be able to welcome
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to the house this evening Mr. William
Buckley and Mr. James Baldwin.
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Mr. William Buckley has the reputation
of possibly being the most articulate
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conservative in the United States of
America. He was a graduate of Yale,
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and he first gained a reputation for
himself by publishing a book entitled
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"God and Man at Yale."
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[laughter]
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Since then, he has devoted himself to
the secular, and this has included
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Norman Mailer, Kenneth Tynan, Mary McCarthy,
and Fidel Castro, none of whom have come
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out of their confrontations unscathed.
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[laughter]
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At present, his principle occupation is
editing a right-wing newspaper in the
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United States entitled
"The National Review."
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Mr. James Baldwin is hardly in need of
introduction. His reputation both as a
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novelist and as an advocate of civil rights
is international. His third novel
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"Another Country" has been published as
a paperback in England today. Mr. Baldwin
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and Mr. Buckley are both very welcome to
the house this evening.
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[applause]
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Imagine Mr. President, a society which
above all values freedom and equality.
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A society in which artificial barriers to
fulfillment and achievement are unheard
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of. A society in which a man may begin his
life as a rail splitter and end it as president.
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A society in which all men are free in
every sense of the word. Free to live
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where they choose. Free to work where they
choose. Equal in the eyes of the law and
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every public authority. And equal in the eyes
of their fellows. A society in fact which
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intollerence and prejudice are meaningless
terms. Imagine; however, Mr. President, a
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condition of this utopia has been a
persistent and quite deliberate
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exploitation of one ninth of its
inhabitants. That one man in nine has
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been denied those rights, which the rest
of that society takes for granted.
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That one man in nine does not have
a chance for fulfillment or realization
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of his innate potentiality. That one
man in nine cannot promise his
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children a secure future and unlimited
opportunities. Imagine this Mr. President
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and you have, what is in my opinion,
the bitter reality of the American Dream.
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A few weeks ago Martin Luther King had
to hold a non-violent demonstration in
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Selma, Alabama in his drive to register
negro voters. By the end of the week
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of his demonstrations, he was able to
write quite accurately in a national
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fundraising letter from Selma, Alabama
jail, "There are more negros in prison
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with me than there are on the voting
roles." When King wrote that letter,
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three-hundred and thirty-five out of
thirty-two-thousand-seven-hundred
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negros in Dallas had the vote.
One percent of the Dallas population.
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After a mass march to the court house,
two-hundred-and-thirty-seven negros,
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King among them, were arrested.
The following day, four-hundred-and
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seventy children, who had deserted
their classrooms to protest against
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King's arrest, were charged with juvenile
delinquency.
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[laughter]
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Thirty-six adults on the same day were
charged with contempt of court for
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picketing the court house while
state circuit court was in session.
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On the following day, a hundred-and
eleven people were arrested on the
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same charge despite their claim that
they merely wanted to see the voting
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registrar. Four-hundred students were
arrested and taken to the armory,
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where many of them spent the night
on a cold cement floor. The following
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date the demonstrations spread to
Marion, Alabama. In Marion, negros
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outnumbered whites by eleven-and
a-half thousand to six-thousand people
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and yet, only three hundred are registered
to vote. Negros in Marion were anxious
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to test the public accommodations section
of the civil rights law. They entered a
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drug store and there they were served
with Coca Cola laced with salt and were
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told that hamburgers had risen to five
dollars each. After the arrest of fifteen
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negros for protesting against this
treatment, seven hundred negros
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boycotted their classes the next day
and marched in orderly fashion to the
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jail. There, they sang civil rights songs
until they were warned by a state trooper
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that they would be arrested if they sung
one more song. Of course, they sung
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another song, and of course, all seven
hundred were arrested. American
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society has felt fit to use negro labor.
It has felt fit to use the blood of the
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negro in two world wars. It has felt fit to
listen to his music. It has felt fit to laugh
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at his jokes, and yet, as far as I am
concerned, it has never felt fit to
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give the American negro a fair deal;
and for this reason Mr. President,
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I will beg leave to propose the motion
that the American dream is at the expense
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of the American negro.
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[applause]
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President: I now call Mr. Jeremy Burford of Emmanuel College to oppose the motion.
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[applause]
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Narrator: Now, we have Mr. Jeremy
Burford of Emmanuel College who
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is the first undergraduate opposing
the motion.
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Jeremy Burford: James Baldwin is well
known as one of the most vivid and
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articulate writers about the negro
problem in America. Mr. Baldwin
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had a difficult childhood, and he
has personally himself suffered
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discrimination and ill treatment
of a sort in America, and I would
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like to say at this time that it is
not the purpose of this side of
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the house to condone that in any
way at all. It is not our purpose to
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oppose civil rights. It is our purpose
to oppose this motion. [audience: here here]
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[laughter]
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Thank you, sir. Come and collect
your fee afterwards.
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[laughter and applause]
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This side of the house denies that the
American dream has in any way been
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helped by this undoubted inequality
and suffering of the negro.
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We maintain that in fact this has hindered
the American Dream, and if there had
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been equality, if there had been true
freedom of opportunity, the American
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dream would be very much more advance
than it is now. If the American dream has
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made any progress, and I think it has,
it has been made in spite of the suffering
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and inequality of the American negro and
not because of it. Now it is also implied
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in this motion that the American Dream is
encouraging and worsening the suffering
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of the American negro. This is emphatically
not the case. The American Dream,
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the American economic prosperity and
respect for civil liberties has been the
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main factor in bringing about the undoubted
improvement in race relations in America
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in the last twenty years; and Professor
Arnold Rose who was the author of the "Negro
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in America," which is perhaps the definitive
work on the subject, who is also a
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contributor of what is called "The Freedom
Pamphlet". So I should imagine if he has
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any bias at all, it is in favor of the negro.
He's said that this improvement in race
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relations will be seen in years to come as
remarkably quick, and he has put it down
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to three main causes: increased
industrialization and technical advance,
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the increased social mobility of the
American people, and the economic
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prosperity. And I would put it to this
house that that industrialization and
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economic prosperity are two of the main
ingredients of the American dream and
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at the same time--again, I do not want to
say that the negro in America is treated
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fairly--but at the same time, the average
per capita income of negros in America
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is exactly the same as the average per
capita income of people in Great Britain.
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Now, I found that absolutely amazing.
[laughter]
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[laughter]
I understand that some of you do as well;
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So I've got the reference here from the
United States News and World Report
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of July the 22nd 1963, in which it points
out- [Man in the audience interrupts]
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This will have to be the last interruption
I take because time is running short.
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Audience member: Mr. President. Now a
point of information, is this being a talking
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of real income or money income?
[Audience: here here, applause.]
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I am talking of money income. I would not
wish to disguise that. I would also say that
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in terms of this, there are only five
countries in the world where the income
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is higher than that of the American negro,
and they do not include countries like
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West Germany and France and Japan.
Now, there are in America thirty-five
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negro millionaires. There are negro six thousand
doctors and so on. Now I do not by saying
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this wish to emphasize that the negro is
fairly treated. I merely wish to try and
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convey a more realistic and objective
account of the situation of the negro.
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I agree that there are negros who are
very poor indeed, such as the old
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gentlemen in the south who was talking
about some of his wealthier brethren and
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he was saying "Yes. Some of these rich
negros they put on airs like the bottom
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figure of a fetch, and the bigger they try
to be, the smaller they really are."
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I would repeat Mr. President, sir, in the
last minute that I have that this debate
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is not whether civil rights should be
extended to American negros or not;
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if it were it would be a very easy
motion to argue for and a very easy
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motion to vote for. The debate tonight
concerns whether the American Dream
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is at the expense of the American negro.
That is where the American negro has paid
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for the American dream with a suffering
or whether the American dream has
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furthered the negro inequality, and
I would deny those things to precept.
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I would say that negro inequality has
hindered the American dream, and
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I would say that the American dream
has been very important indeed in
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furthering civil rights and in furthering
freedom for the American negro.
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Mr. President, sir, I beg to oppose
the motion.
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[applause]
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President: It is now with very
great pleasure and a very great sense of
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honor that I call Mr. James Baldwin
to speak third to this motion.
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[applause]
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Narrator: Now we have Mr. James Baldwin,
the star of the evening, who has been
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sitting, listening attentively and getting
a wonderful reception here in the
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Cambridge Union. From members, enthusiasm from all sides of the house for
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Mr. Baldwin, who has been listening to the arguments. Now will bring the voice of actual
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experience to the debate.
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James Baldwin: Good evening.
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[laughter]
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I find myself, not for the first time, in
the position of a kind of Jeremiah.
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For example, I don’t disagree with
Mr. Burford that the inequality
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suffered by the American Negro
population of the United States has hindered
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the American dream. Indeed, it has.
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I quarrell with some other things he
has to say. The other, deeper, element of
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a certain awkwardness I feel has to do
with one’s point of view.
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I have to put it that way – one’s sense,
one’s system of reality.
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It would seem to me the proposition
before the House, and I would put it
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that way, is the American Dream at the
expense of the American Negro,
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or the American Dream is at
the expense of the American Negro.
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Is the question hideously loaded,
and then one’s response to that question
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– one’s reaction to that question –
has to depend on effect and, in effect,
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where you find yourself in the world,
what your sense of reality is,
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what your system of reality is.
That is, it depends on assumptions which
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we hold so deeply so as to
be scarcely aware of them.
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Are white South African or
Mississippi sharecropper, or
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Mississippi sheriff, or a Frenchman
driven out of Algeria, all have, at bottom,
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a system of reality which compels
them to, for example, in the case of the
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French exile from Algeria, to offend
French reasons from having ruled Algeria.
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The Mississippi or Alabama sheriff,
who really does believe, when he’s facing
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a Negro boy or girl, that this woman,
this man, this child must be insane to
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attack the system to which he owes
his entire identity. Of course, to
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such a person, the proposition which
we are trying to discuss here tonight
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does not exist. And on the other hand,
I, have to speak as one of the people
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who’ve been most attacked by what
we now must here call the Western or
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European system of reality. What white
people in the world, what we call
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white supremacy – I hate to say it here
– comes from Europe.
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That's how it got to America. Beneath
then, whatever one’s reaction to this
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proposition is, has to be the question
of whether or not civilizations can
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be considered, as such, equal, or
whether one’s civilization has the right
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to overtake and subjugate, and, in fact,
to destroy another.
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Now, what happens when that happens.
Leaving aside all the physical facts that
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one can quote. Leaving aside, rape
or murder. Leaving aside the bloody
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catalog of oppression, which we
are in one way too familiar with already,
00:17:59.651 --> 00:18:04.816
what this does to the subjugated,
the most private, the most serious
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thing this does to the subjugated,
is to destroy his sense of reality.
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It destroys, for example, his father’s
authority over him. His father can no
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longer tell him anything, because
the past has disappeared, and his
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father has no power in the world.
This means, in the case of an
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American Negro, born in that
glittering republic, and the moment you
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are born, since you don’t
know any better,
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every stick and stone and
every face is white.
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And since you have not yet seen
a mirror, you suppose that you
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are, too. It comes as a great shock
around the age of 5, or 6, or 7, to
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discover that the flag to which
you have pledged allegiance, along with
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everybody else, has not pledged
allegiance to you. It comes as a
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great shock to discover that Gary
Cooper killing off the Indians, when you
00:18:59.229 --> 00:19:06.499
were rooting for Gary Cooper,
that the Indians were you. It comes as a
00:19:06.499 --> 00:19:11.172
great shock to discover that the
country which is your birthplace and to
00:19:11.172 --> 00:19:17.078
which you owe your life and your identity,
has not, in its whole system of reality,
00:19:17.078 --> 00:19:24.594
evovled any place for you. The
disaffection, the demoralization, and the
00:19:24.594 --> 00:19:29.794
gap between one person and another
only on the basis of the color of their
00:19:29.794 --> 00:19:35.977
skin, begins there and accelerates
– accelerates throughout a whole lifetime
00:19:35.977 --> 00:19:40.338
– to the present when you realize
you’re thirty and are having a terrible
00:19:40.338 --> 00:19:48.176
time managing to trust your
countrymen. By the time you are thirty,
00:19:48.176 --> 00:19:55.654
you have been through a certain
kind of mill. And the most serious effect
00:19:55.654 --> 00:19:59.839
of the mill you’ve been through is,
again, not the catalog of disaster,
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:07.137
the policemen, the taxi drivers,
the waiters, the landlady, the landlord,
00:20:07.137 --> 00:20:12.354
the banks, the insurance companies,
the millions of details, twenty four
00:20:12.448 --> 00:20:17.492
hours of every day, which spell
out to you that you are a worthless
00:20:17.492 --> 00:20:23.185
human being. It is not that. It’s by
that time that you’ve begun to see
00:20:23.185 --> 00:20:28.373
it happening, in your daughter or your
son, or your niece or your nephew.
00:20:28.373 --> 00:20:33.370
You are thirty by now and nothing you
have done has helped to
00:20:33.370 --> 00:20:38.134
escape the trap. But what is worse
than that, is that nothing you
00:20:38.134 --> 00:20:44.076
have done, and as far as you can tell,
nothing you can do, will save your
00:20:44.076 --> 00:20:49.721
son or your daughter from meeting
the same disaster and not
00:20:49.721 --> 00:20:58.956
impossibly coming to the same
end. Now, we’re speaking about
00:20:58.956 --> 00:21:06.189
expense. I suppose there are
several ways to address oneself,
00:21:06.189 --> 00:21:15.707
to some attempt to find what that
word means here. Let me put it
00:21:15.707 --> 00:21:23.042
this way, that from a very literal
point of view, the harbors and the
00:21:23.042 --> 00:21:30.992
ports, and the railroads of the
country–the economy,
00:21:30.992 --> 00:21:39.966
especially of the Southern
states–could not conceivably be
00:21:39.966 --> 00:21:45.639
what it has become, if they had
not had, and do not still have,
00:21:45.639 --> 00:21:55.215
indeed for so long, for many generations,
cheap labor. I am stating very
00:21:55.215 --> 00:22:02.754
seriously, and this is not an
overstatement: I picked the cotton,
00:22:02.754 --> 00:22:13.254
I carried it to the market,
and I built the railroads under
00:22:13.254 --> 00:22:19.737
someone else’s whip for nothing.
For nothing.
00:22:19.737 --> 00:22:26.815
The Southern oligarchy, which has
still today so very much power in
00:22:26.815 --> 00:22:31.384
Washington, and therefore some
power in the world, was created
00:22:31.384 --> 00:22:37.217
by my labor and my sweat, and the
violation of my women and the murder of
00:22:37.217 --> 00:22:45.359
my children. This, in the land of
the free, and the home of the brave.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:50.604
And no one can challenge that statement.
It is a matter of historical record.
00:22:50.604 --> 00:22:59.645
In another way, this dream, and we’ll
get to the dream in a moment,
00:22:59.645 --> 00:23:06.581
is at the expense of the American
Negro. You watched this in the Deep South
00:23:06.581 --> 00:23:15.426
in great relief. But not only in the
Deep South. In the Deep South, you
00:23:15.426 --> 00:23:17.997
are dealing with a sheriff or a
landlord, or a landlady or the
00:23:17.997 --> 00:23:28.204
girl of the Western Union desk, and
she doesn’t know quite who she’s
00:23:28.204 --> 00:23:31.666
dealing with, by which I mean,
that if you’re not a part of the town,
00:23:31.666 --> 00:23:38.514
and if you are a Nothern Nigger,
it shows in millions of ways.
00:23:38.514 --> 00:23:43.550
So she simply knows that it’s an
unknown quantity, and she wants to
00:23:43.550 --> 00:23:46.730
have nothing to do with it because
she won’t talk to you, you have
00:23:46.730 --> 00:23:49.790
to wait for a while to get your telegram.
OK, we all know this. We’ve all
00:23:49.790 --> 00:23:54.005
been through it and, by the time you
get to be a man, it’s very easy to deal with.
00:23:54.005 --> 00:23:57.683
But what is happening in the poor
woman, the poor man’s mind is
00:23:57.683 --> 00:24:06.474
this: they’ve been raised to believe,
and by now they helplessly believe,
00:24:06.474 --> 00:24:11.743
that no matter how terrible their lives
may be, and their lives have been
00:24:11.743 --> 00:24:17.154
quite terrible, and no matter how
far they fall, no matter what disaster
00:24:17.154 --> 00:24:19.986
overtakes them, they have one
enormous knowledge in
00:24:19.986 --> 00:24:24.856
consolation, which is like a heavenly
revelation: at least, they are not Black.
00:24:24.856 --> 00:24:33.504
Now, I suggest that of all the terrible
things that can happen to a
00:24:33.504 --> 00:24:37.840
human being, that is one of the worst.
I suggest that what has happened
00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:42.045
to white Southerners is in some ways,
after all, much worse than
00:24:42.045 --> 00:24:51.624
what has happened to Negroes
there because Sheriff Clark in
00:24:51.624 --> 00:24:58.932
Selma, Alabama, cannot be considered
– you know, no one can be
00:24:58.932 --> 00:25:00.728
dismissed as a total monster.
00:25:00.728 --> 00:25:05.498
I’m sure he loves his wife, his children.
I’m sure, you know, he likes to
00:25:05.498 --> 00:25:11.577
get drunk. You know, after all, one’s got
to assume he is visibly a man like me.
00:25:11.577 --> 00:25:21.348
But he doesn’t know what drives
him to use the club, to menace with the
00:25:21.348 --> 00:25:25.224
gun and to use the cattle prod.
Something awful must have happened to
00:25:25.224 --> 00:25:28.793
a human being to be able to put
a cattle prod against a
00:25:28.793 --> 00:25:32.464
woman’s breasts, for example.
What happens to the woman is ghastly.
00:25:32.464 --> 00:25:37.933
What happens to the man who
does it is in some ways much, much worse.
00:25:37.933 --> 00:25:47.352
This is being done, after all, not a hundred
years ago, but in 1965, in a country
00:25:47.473 --> 00:25:51.884
which is blessed with what we call
prosperity, a word we won’t examine
00:25:51.884 --> 00:25:59.194
too closely; with a certain kind of
social coherence, which calls itself a
00:25:59.194 --> 00:26:04.658
civilized nation, and which espouses
the notion of the freedom of the
00:26:04.658 --> 00:26:10.466
world. And it is perfectly true from
the point of view now
00:26:10.466 --> 00:26:16.335
simply of an American Negro. Any American
Negro watching this, no matter
00:26:16.335 --> 00:26:19.504
where he is, from the vantage point of
Harlem, which is another terrible
00:26:19.504 --> 00:26:24.494
place, has to say to himself, in spite of
what the government says
00:26:24.494 --> 00:26:29.488
– the government says we can’t do
anything about it – but if those were
00:26:29.488 --> 00:26:33.962
white people being murdered in
Mississippi work farms, being carried
00:26:33.962 --> 00:26:37.784
off to jail, if those were white children
running up and down the streets,
00:26:37.784 --> 00:26:41.303
the government would find some
way of doing something about it.
00:26:41.303 --> 00:26:45.464
We have a civil rights bill now
where an amendment, the
00:26:45.464 --> 00:26:49.444
fifteenth amendment, nearly a hundred
years ago – I hate to sound again
00:26:49.444 --> 00:26:52.438
like an Old Testament prophet –
but if the amendment was not
00:26:52.438 --> 00:26:55.646
honored then, I would have any
reason to believe in the civil rights
00:26:55.646 --> 00:26:57.286
bill will be honored now.
00:26:57.286 --> 00:27:02.424
And after all one’s been there, since
before, you know, a lot of other
00:27:02.424 --> 00:27:10.122
people got there. If one has got to
prove one’s title to the land, isn’t
00:27:10.122 --> 00:27:15.440
four hundred years enough? Four
hundred years? At least three wars?
00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:20.372
The American soil is full of the
corpses of my ancestors.
00:27:20.633 --> 00:27:25.772
Why is my freedom or my citizenship,
or my right to live there, how
00:27:25.772 --> 00:27:31.741
is it conceivably a question now?
And I suggest further, and in the
00:27:31.741 --> 00:27:37.328
same way, the moral life of Alabama
sheriffs and poor Alabama ladies
00:27:37.328 --> 00:27:41.729
– white ladies – their moral lives
have been destroyed by the
00:27:41.729 --> 00:27:47.322
plague called color, that the American
sense of reality has been corrupted by it.
00:27:47.322 --> 00:27:53.366
At the risk of sounding excessive,
what I always felt, when I finally
00:27:53.366 --> 00:27:58.369
left the country, and found myself abroad,
in other places, and watched
00:27:58.369 --> 00:28:03.409
the Americans abroad – and these are
my countrymen – and I do
00:28:03.409 --> 00:28:08.115
care about them, and even if I didn’t,
there is something between us.
00:28:08.115 --> 00:28:14.823
We have the same shorthand, I know,
if I look at a boy or a girl from Tennessee,
00:28:14.823 --> 00:28:18.162
where they came from in Tennessee
and what that means.
00:28:18.162 --> 00:28:21.962
No Englishman knows that. No Frenchmen.
No one in the world knows that except
00:28:21.962 --> 00:28:24.342
another black man who comes
from the same place.
00:28:25.262 --> 00:28:32.852
One watches these lonely people.
Denying the only kin they have.
00:28:32.852 --> 00:28:36.432
We talk about integration in America
as thought it were some great new
00:28:36.432 --> 00:28:40.622
conundrum. The problem in America
is that we have been integrated for
00:28:40.622 --> 00:28:46.717
a very long time. Put me next to any
African and you will see what I mean.
00:28:46.717 --> 00:28:52.607
My grandmother was not a racist.
What we are not facing ...
00:28:54.647 --> 00:28:58.732
is the results of what we've done.
00:28:58.732 --> 00:29:04.952
What one begs the American people to do
for all our sakes is simply to
00:29:04.952 --> 00:29:07.542
accept our history.
00:29:07.542 --> 00:29:12.052
I was there not only as a slave
but also as a concubine.
00:29:12.072 --> 00:29:16.792
One knows the power afterall which
can be used against another person
00:29:16.792 --> 00:29:18.922
who has got absolute power over
that person.
NOTE Paragraph
00:29:21.872 --> 00:29:24.602
It seemed to me when I watched
Americans in Europe what they
00:29:24.778 --> 00:29:30.863
didn’t know about Europeans was
what they didn’t know about me.
00:29:30.863 --> 00:29:34.545
They weren’t trying, for example, to be
nasty to the French girl, or
00:29:34.545 --> 00:29:39.312
rude to the French waiter. They
didn’t know they hurt their feelings.
00:29:39.312 --> 00:29:43.715
They didn’t have any sense this
particular woman, this particular man,
00:29:43.715 --> 00:29:46.246
though they spoke another language
and had different manners
00:29:46.246 --> 00:29:51.284
and ways, was a human being. And
they walked over them, the same kind
00:29:51.284 --> 00:29:59.628
of bland ignorance, condescension,
charming and cheerful with which
00:29:59.628 --> 00:30:03.833
they’ve always pat me on the head
and called me Shine and were upset
00:30:03.833 --> 00:30:14.739
when I was upset. What is relevant
about this is that whereas forty years ago
00:30:14.739 --> 00:30:22.549
when I was born, the question of having
to deal with what is unspoken
00:30:22.549 --> 00:30:28.049
by the subjugated, what is never said
to the master, of ever
00:30:28.049 --> 00:30:31.456
having to deal with this reality
was a very remote possibility.
00:30:31.456 --> 00:30:35.403
It was in no one’s mind. When I was growing up, I was taught in
00:30:35.403 --> 00:30:39.665
American history books, that Africa had no history, and neither did I.
00:30:39.665 --> 00:30:47.902
That I was a savage about whom the less said, the better, who had been
00:30:47.902 --> 00:30:55.587
saved by Europe and brought to America. And, of course, I believed it.
00:30:55.587 --> 00:31:01.293
I didn’t have much choice.
Those were the only books there were.
00:31:01.293 --> 00:31:05.322
Everyone else seemed to agree.
00:31:05.322 --> 00:31:09.842
If you walk out of Harlem, ride out
of Harlem, downtown, the world
00:31:09.842 --> 00:31:15.402
agrees what you see is much bigger,
cleaner, whiter, richer, safer
00:31:15.402 --> 00:31:21.621
than where you are. They collect
the garbage. People obviously can
00:31:21.621 --> 00:31:25.312
pay their life insurance. Their children
look happy, safe. You’re not.
00:31:25.312 --> 00:31:31.289
And you go back home, and it would
seem that, of course, that it’s an act
00:31:31.289 --> 00:31:38.527
of God that this is true! That you
belong where white people have put you.
00:31:38.527 --> 00:31:45.403
It is only since the Second World War
that there’s been a
00:31:45.403 --> 00:31:48.872
counter-image in the world. And that
image did not come about through
00:31:48.872 --> 00:31:53.807
any legislation or part of any
American government, but through
00:31:53.807 --> 00:32:01.776
the fact that Africa was suddenly
on the stage of the world, and Africans
00:32:01.776 --> 00:32:05.196
had to be dealt with in a way they’d
never been dealt with before.
00:32:05.196 --> 00:32:09.688
This gave an American Negro for
the first time a sense of himself
00:32:09.688 --> 00:32:19.728
beyond the savage or a clown. It has
created and will create a great
00:32:19.728 --> 00:32:24.810
many conundrums. One of the great
things that the white world
00:32:24.810 --> 00:32:29.615
does not know, but I think I do know,
is that Black people are just like
00:32:29.615 --> 00:32:34.386
everybody else. One has used the
myth of Negro and the myth of color
00:32:34.386 --> 00:32:39.288
to pretend and to assume that you
were dealing with, essentially,
00:32:39.288 --> 00:32:43.755
with something exotic, bizarre,
and practically, according to human laws,
00:32:43.755 --> 00:32:49.074
unknown. Alas, it is not true.
We’re also mercenaries,
00:32:49.074 --> 00:32:54.662
dictators, murderers, liars.
We are human too.
00:32:54.662 --> 00:33:01.279
What is crucial here is that unless
we can manage to accept, establish
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:08.420
some kind of dialog between those
people whom I pretend have paid
00:33:08.420 --> 00:33:14.790
for the American dream and those
other people who have not achieved it,
00:33:14.790 --> 00:33:23.362
we will be in terrible trouble. I want
to say, at the end, the last, is that is
00:33:23.362 --> 00:33:28.335
that is what concerns me most. We are
sitting in this room, and we are all,
00:33:28.335 --> 00:33:32.347
at least I’d like to think we are,
relatively civilized, and we can talk to
00:33:32.347 --> 00:33:38.717
each other at least on certain levels
so that we could walk out of here
00:33:38.717 --> 00:33:43.213
assuming that the measure of our
enlightenment, or at least, our
00:33:43.213 --> 00:33:46.655
politeness, has some effect on
the world. It may not.
00:33:46.655 --> 00:33:53.298
I remember, for example, when the
ex Attorney General, Mr. Robert Kennedy,
00:33:53.298 --> 00:34:01.239
said that it was conceivable that in
forty years, in America, we might have
00:34:01.239 --> 00:34:08.079
a Negro president. That sounded
like a very emancipated statement,
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:14.008
I suppose, to white people. They were
not in Harlem when this statement
00:34:14.008 --> 00:34:19.648
was first heard. And they’re not here,
and possibly will never hear the laughter
00:34:19.648 --> 00:34:22.129
and the bitterness, and the scorn
with which this statement was greeted.
00:34:22.129 --> 00:34:25.860
From the point of view of the man
in the Harlem barber shop, Bobby Kennedy
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:32.506
only got here yesterday, and he’s
already on his way to the presidency.
00:34:32.506 --> 00:34:36.837
We’ve been here for four hundred
years and now he tells us that maybe
00:34:36.837 --> 00:34:42.541
in forty years, if you’re good,
we may let you become president.
00:34:42.541 --> 00:34:52.922
What is dangerous here is the turning
away from – the turning away from
00:34:52.922 --> 00:34:59.499
– anything any white American says.
The reason for the political hesitation,
00:34:59.499 --> 00:35:03.694
in spite of the Johnson landslide is
that one has been betrayed by American
00:35:03.694 --> 00:35:08.707
politicians for so long. And I am a
grown man and perhaps I can be
00:35:08.707 --> 00:35:16.767
reasoned with. I certainly hope I can be.
But I don’t know, and neither does
00:35:16.767 --> 00:35:21.254
Martin Luther King, none of us know
how to deal with those other people
00:35:21.254 --> 00:35:24.191
whom the white world has so long
ignored, who don’t believe anything
00:35:24.191 --> 00:35:30.688
the white world says and don’t entirely
believe anything I or Martin is saying.
00:35:30.688 --> 00:35:34.891
And one can’t blame them. You watch
what has happened to
00:35:34.891 --> 00:35:42.247
them in less than twenty years.
It seems to me that the City of New York,
00:35:42.247 --> 00:35:49.744
for example – this is my last point –
It’s had Negroes in it for a very long time.
00:35:49.744 --> 00:35:55.886
If the city of New York were able, as it
has indeed been able, in the last fifteen
00:35:55.886 --> 00:36:01.029
years to reconstruct itself, tear down
buildings and raise great new ones,
00:36:01.029 --> 00:36:07.829
downtown and for money, and has
done nothing whatever except build
00:36:07.829 --> 00:36:15.299
housing projects in the ghetto for the
Negroes. And of course, Negroes hate it.
00:36:15.299 --> 00:36:18.843
Presently the property does indeed
deteriorate because the children
00:36:18.843 --> 00:36:24.941
cannot bear it. They want to get out
of the ghetto. If the American pretensions
00:36:24.941 --> 00:36:33.617
were based on more solid, a more
honest assessment of life and of
00:36:33.617 --> 00:36:39.094
themselves, it would not mean for Negroes
when someone says “Urban Renewal”
00:36:39.094 --> 00:36:41.859
that Negroes can simply are going
to be thrown out into the streets.
00:36:41.859 --> 00:36:45.345
This is just what it does mean now. This is
not an act of God. We’re dealing with
00:36:45.345 --> 00:36:52.490
a society made and ruled by men.
Had the American Negro had not
00:36:52.490 --> 00:36:56.239
been present in America, I am convinced
the history of the American labor
00:36:56.396 --> 00:36:59.181
movement would be much
more edifying than it is.
00:36:59.181 --> 00:37:05.783
It is a terrible thing for an entire
people to surrender to the notion
00:37:05.783 --> 00:37:12.061
that one-ninth of its population is beneath
them. And until that moment,
00:37:12.061 --> 00:37:18.277
until the moment comes when we, the
Americans, we, the American people,
00:37:18.277 --> 00:37:23.305
are able to accept the fact, that I have
to accept, for example, that my ancestors
00:37:23.305 --> 00:37:28.617
are both white and Black. That on that
continent we are trying to forge a new
00:37:28.617 --> 00:37:34.814
identity for which we need each other
and that I am not a ward of America.
00:37:34.814 --> 00:37:40.512
I am not an object of missionary charity. I am
one of the people who built the
00:37:40.512 --> 00:37:46.772
country–until this moment there is scarcely
any hope for the American dream,
00:37:46.772 --> 00:37:54.498
because the people who are denied
participation in it, by their very presence,
00:37:54.498 --> 00:37:59.876
will wreck it. And if that happens it is a
very grave moment for the West.
00:37:59.876 --> 00:38:00.898
Thank you.
00:38:00.898 --> 00:38:22.267
[standing ovation, loud applause]
00:38:22.267 --> 00:38:28.720
Narrator: Members. Moving moment now.
The whole of the union standing and
00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:34.945
applauding this magnificent speech of
James Baldwin. Never seen this happen
00:38:34.945 --> 00:38:41.017
before in the union in all the years
that I have known it. Baldwin smiling,
00:38:41.017 --> 00:38:46.493
obviously delighted by his reception,
tremendously moved by it.
00:38:46.493 --> 00:39:05.103
[applause]
00:39:05.103 --> 00:39:07.785
President: I am now very grateful
and very pleased to be able to call a
00:39:07.785 --> 00:39:11.239
Mr. William F Buckley Jr. to speak forth
to this motion.
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:20.254
[applause]
00:39:20.379 --> 00:39:24.126
Narrator: Now we have Mr. William Buckley,
who will need all his skill to establish a
00:39:24.126 --> 00:39:27.856
a ascendancy over his audience, which
has clearly been deeply moved by
00:39:27.856 --> 00:39:31.564
the eloquence and personal experience
of the preceding speaker.
00:39:31.564 --> 00:39:34.381
William Buckley: Thank you Mr. President,
Baldwin, Heycock, Burford, gentlemen.
00:39:39.391 --> 00:39:47.316
It seems to me that of all the indictments
Mr. Baldwin has made of America
00:39:47.402 --> 00:39:58.894
here tonight and in his copious literature
of protest, the one that is of most
00:39:58.894 --> 00:40:11.508
striking involves in effect the refusal
of the American community to treat
00:40:11.508 --> 00:40:19.647
him other than as a negro. The
American community has refused to
00:40:19.647 --> 00:40:27.534
do this. The American community
almost everywhere he goes treats
00:40:27.534 --> 00:40:36.061
him with the kind of unction, of
a kind of satisfaction at posturing
00:40:36.061 --> 00:40:44.648
carefully for his flagellation of
our civilization. That indeed our
00:40:44.648 --> 00:40:51.210
white populi commands the contempt
which he so eloquently showers upon us.
00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:57.883
It is impossible in my judgment to deal
with the indictment of Mr. Baldwin
00:40:57.961 --> 00:41:03.489
unless one is prepared to deal with him as
a white man. Unless one is prepared to
00:41:03.489 --> 00:41:08.425
say to him the fact that your skin is
black is utterly irrelevant to the
00:41:08.425 --> 00:41:14.304
arguments that you raised or the
fact that you sit here as is your
00:41:14.304 --> 00:41:20.367
rhetorical devise and lay the entire
waves of the negro ordeal on your
00:41:20.367 --> 00:41:26.410
own shoulders is irrelevant to the
argument we are here to discuss.
00:41:29.070 --> 00:41:36.242
The bravanmon of Mr. Baldwin's charges
against America are not so much that our
00:41:36.298 --> 00:41:41.737
civilization has failed him or/and his
people. That our ideals are
00:41:41.737 --> 00:41:48.772
insufficient or that we have no
ideals. That our ideals are rather
00:41:48.772 --> 00:41:54.372
some sort of a superficial coating
of which we come up with at any
00:41:54.372 --> 00:41:58.756
given moment in order to justify
our whatever commercial and
00:41:58.756 --> 00:42:04.442
agnoxious experiment we are engaged
in. Of us, Mr. Baldwin can write his
00:42:04.442 --> 00:42:10.362
book "The Fire Next Time" in which
he threatens America. He didn't
00:42:10.379 --> 00:42:14.060
in writing that book speak with a
British accent that he used
00:42:14.193 --> 00:42:17.700
exclusively tonight, in which he
threatened America with a
00:42:17.700 --> 00:42:27.434
necessity for us to jettison...
for us to jettison our entire
00:42:27.434 --> 00:42:32.945
civilization, the only thing that the
white man has that the negro should
00:42:33.001 --> 00:42:36.015
want he said is power.
00:42:36.525 --> 00:42:42.060
And he is treated from coast to coast of
the United States with a kind of unctuous
00:42:42.060 --> 00:42:46.664
[Narrator speaking over him: inaudible]
00:42:46.664 --> 00:42:49.850
... that goes beyond anything that was
ever expected from some of the most
00:42:49.850 --> 00:42:54.100
servile negro creature by a southern
family. I propose to pay him the honor
00:42:54.100 --> 00:43:00.711
this night of saying to him, Mr. Baldwin,
I am going to speak to you without any
00:43:00.711 --> 00:43:08.035
reference whatever to those surrounding
protections which you are used to
00:43:08.035 --> 00:43:12.673
in virtue of the fact that you are a negro.
Here we need to ask the question,
00:43:12.673 --> 00:43:17.132
what in fact shall we do about it,
Mr. President? What shall we in America
00:43:17.132 --> 00:43:25.320
try to do for instance to eliminate
those psychic humiliations which I join
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:30.052
Mr. Baldwin in believing are the very
worst aspects of this discrimination?
00:43:30.052 --> 00:43:35.344
You found it a source of considerable
merth to laugh away these statistics
00:43:35.344 --> 00:43:39.820
of my colleague, Mr. Burford. I don't
think they are insignificant. They
00:43:39.820 --> 00:43:45.010
certainly are not insignificant in a world
that attaches a considerable importance
00:43:45.010 --> 00:43:53.252
to material progress. It is in fact the case
that seven-tenths of the white income
00:43:53.252 --> 00:43:57.359
in the United States is equal to the
income that is made by the average
00:43:57.359 --> 00:44:02.865
negro. I don't think this is an irrelevant
statistic, ladies and gentleman. It takes
00:44:02.865 --> 00:44:06.796
the capitalization of fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen thousand dollars per job in the
00:44:06.796 --> 00:44:12.317
United States. This is capitalization that
was not created exclusively as a result
00:44:12.387 --> 00:44:17.627
of negro travail. My great grand parents
worked too, presumably yours worked
00:44:17.665 --> 00:44:21.185
also. I don't know of anything that has
ever been created without the expense
00:44:21.343 --> 00:44:25.529
of something. All of you who hope for a
diploma here are going to do that at the
00:44:25.529 --> 00:44:30.108
expense of a considerable amount of
effort. And I would thank you to please
00:44:30.108 --> 00:44:35.130
not to deny the fact that a considerable
amount of effort went into the production
00:44:35.130 --> 00:44:40.026
of a system which grants a greater degree
of material well being to the American negro
00:44:40.026 --> 00:44:44.129
other than that in which is enjoyed by 95%
of the other peoples' of the human race.
00:44:44.129 --> 00:44:51.403
But even so, to the extent of your withering
laughter suggested here that you found this
00:44:51.403 --> 00:44:56.969
a contemptible observation. I agree.
I don't think it matters that there are
00:44:56.969 --> 00:45:01.532
thirty-five millionaires among the negro
community if there were thirty-five, if
00:45:01.532 --> 00:45:05.777
there were twenty million millionaires
among the negro community of the
00:45:05.777 --> 00:45:10.277
United States, I would still agree with
you that we have a dastardly situation.
00:45:10.277 --> 00:45:16.931
But I am asking you not to make politics
as the crow flies, to use the fleeted
00:45:16.931 --> 00:45:22.514
phrase of Professor Oakshock. Rather
consider what in fact is that we Americans
00:45:22.514 --> 00:45:26.927
ought to do? What are your instructions
that I am to take back to the United States
00:45:26.927 --> 00:45:31.228
my friend? I want to know what it is
that we should do and especially,
00:45:31.228 --> 00:45:37.283
I want to know whether it is time in fact
to abandon the American Dream as it has
00:45:37.283 --> 00:45:41.037
been defined by Mr. Heycock and
Mr. Burford or what in fact is it we
00:45:41.037 --> 00:45:48.189
ought to do; for instance, to avoid
two humiliations mentioned by Mr. Baldwin
00:45:48.189 --> 00:45:55.206
as being a part of his own experience
during his lifetime. At the age of twelve,
00:45:55.206 --> 00:46:00.870
you will find on reading his book,
he trespassed outside the ghetto
00:46:00.870 --> 00:46:06.923
of Harlem and was taken by the scruff
of the neck by a policeman on forty-second
00:46:06.923 --> 00:46:11.137
street, Madison Avenue and said,
"Here, you nigger, go back to where you belong."
00:46:11.137 --> 00:46:17.453
Fifteen, twenty years later he goes in and
asks for a scotch whiskey at the airport
00:46:17.453 --> 00:46:24.470
at Chicago and is told by the white woman
that he is obviously under-aged and under
00:46:24.470 --> 00:46:30.330
the circumstances, cannot be served.
I know. I know from your faces that
00:46:30.330 --> 00:46:35.023
you share with me the feeling of
compassion and the feeling of
00:46:35.023 --> 00:46:39.905
outraged that this kind of thing should
have happened. What in fact are we
00:46:39.905 --> 00:46:44.181
going to do to this policeman and what
in fact are we going to do to this
00:46:44.181 --> 00:46:52.128
barman? How are we going to avoid
the kind of humiliations that are
00:46:52.128 --> 00:46:58.413
perpetually visited on members of the
minority race. Obviously, the first
00:46:58.413 --> 00:47:03.952
element is concern. We've got to
care that it happens. We've got to
00:47:03.952 --> 00:47:09.387
do what we can to change the warp
and woof of moral thought in society
00:47:09.387 --> 00:47:15.930
in such fashion as to try to make it happen
less and less. Let me urge this point to you
00:47:15.930 --> 00:47:19.870
which I can do with authority, my friends.
The only thing that I can tonight,
00:47:19.951 --> 00:47:25.830
and that is to tell you that in the
United States there is a concern for
00:47:25.830 --> 00:47:28.743
the negro problem. Now if you get
up to me and say-
00:47:28.743 --> 00:47:32.847
[laughter]
00:47:32.847 --> 00:47:36.558
If you get up to me and say,
"Well is there now the kind of
00:47:36.558 --> 00:47:40.920
concern that we students of Cambridge
would show if the problem were our
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:47.045
own?" All I can say is I don't know. It may
very well be that there has been some
00:47:47.045 --> 00:47:54.602
sort of a sunburst of moral enlightenment
that has hit this community so as to make
00:47:54.602 --> 00:47:57.681
it predictable that if you were the
governors of the United States,
00:47:57.681 --> 00:48:01.216
the situation would change overnight.
I am prepared to grant this as a
00:48:01.216 --> 00:48:07.717
form of curtesy, Mr. President, but
meanwhile I am saying to you that the
00:48:07.717 --> 00:48:13.791
engines of concern in the United States
are working. The presence of Mr. Baldwin
00:48:13.791 --> 00:48:19.997
here tonight is in part a reflection of
that concern. [audience members yells out]
00:48:19.997 --> 00:48:24.396
You cannot go to a university in the
United States, a university in the
00:48:24.396 --> 00:48:29.351
United States presumably also governed
by the lord spiritual as you are, in which
00:48:29.351 --> 00:48:34.983
Mr. Baldwin is not the toast of the town.
You cannot go to a university of the
00:48:34.983 --> 00:48:40.010
United States in which practically all
other problems of public policy are
00:48:40.193 --> 00:48:46.116
preempted by the primary policy of
concern for the negro. I challenge you
00:48:46.116 --> 00:48:50.766
to name another civilization any time
anywhere in the history of the world
00:48:50.766 --> 00:48:55.468
in which the problems of the minority,
which have been showing considerable
00:48:55.468 --> 00:49:00.567
material and political advancement as
much a subject of dramatic concern as it
00:49:00.567 --> 00:49:06.475
is in the United States, but let me just say
finally, ladies and gentlemen, this.
00:49:06.475 --> 00:49:15.520
There is no instant cure for the race
problem in America and anybody
00:49:15.520 --> 00:49:21.763
who tells you there is is a charlatan and
ultimately a boring man, a boring
00:49:21.763 --> 00:49:27.743
precisely because he is then speaking
in the kind of abstractions that do not
00:49:27.743 --> 00:49:33.430
relate to the human experience.
The trouble in America where the negro
00:49:33.430 --> 00:49:38.706
community is concerned is a very
complicated one. I urge those of you
00:49:38.706 --> 00:49:44.431
who have an actual rather than a
purely ideologized interest in the
00:49:44.431 --> 00:49:50.514
problem to read the book "Beyond
the Melting Pot" by Professor Glazer,
00:49:50.514 --> 00:49:56.830
also co-author of the "The Lonely Proud"
a prominent Jewish intellectual who
00:49:56.830 --> 00:50:02.164
points at the fact that the situation in
America where the negros are concerned
00:50:02.164 --> 00:50:08.619
is extremely complex as the result of an
unfortunate conjunction of two factors.
00:50:08.619 --> 00:50:15.928
One is the dreadful efforts to perpetuate
discrimination by many individual American
00:50:15.928 --> 00:50:21.910
citizens as a result of their lack of that
final and ultimate concern which some
00:50:21.910 --> 00:50:27.317
people are truly find agitate the other
or is as a result of a failure of the negro
00:50:27.317 --> 00:50:35.034
community itself to make certain exertions
which were made by other minority groups
00:50:35.034 --> 00:50:40.434
during the American experience. If you can
stand a statistic not of my own making,
00:50:40.434 --> 00:50:45.514
let me give you one which Professor
Glazer considers as relevant. He says
00:50:45.514 --> 00:50:51.747
for instance in 1900 there were thirty-five
hundred negro doctors in America. In 1960
00:50:51.747 --> 00:50:57.200
there were thirty-nine hundred. An increase
in four hundred. Is this because there were
00:50:57.200 --> 00:51:02.164
no opportunities, as has been suggested
by Mr. Heycock and also by Mr. Baldwin
00:51:02.164 --> 00:51:07.324
implicitly. "No," says Professor Glazer. There
are great many medical schools who are
00:51:07.324 --> 00:51:13.296
by no means practice discrimination who
are anxious to receieve the trained negro
00:51:13.296 --> 00:51:17.074
doctors. There are scholarships available
to put them through, but in fact that
00:51:17.074 --> 00:51:21.908
particular energy which he remarks was
so noticeable in the Jewish community
00:51:21.908 --> 00:51:25.895
to a certain and lesser extent in the
Italian and Irish community for some reason
00:51:25.895 --> 00:51:31.586
is not there. We should focus on the
necessity to animate this particular
00:51:31.586 --> 00:51:36.094
energy but he comes to the conclusion
which strikes me as plausible. To the
00:51:36.094 --> 00:51:39.716
people who can best do who can do it
most effectively are negros themselves.
00:51:39.716 --> 00:51:45.922
Let me conclude that by reminding you,
ladies and gentlemen that where the
00:51:45.922 --> 00:51:52.577
negro is concerned the dangers are as
far as I can see it this moment is that they
00:51:52.577 --> 00:51:57.884
will seek to reach out for some sort of
radical solutions on the basis of which
00:51:57.884 --> 00:52:04.727
the true problem is obscured. They have
done a great deal to focus on the fact
00:52:04.727 --> 00:52:10.169
of white discrimination against negros.
They have done a great deal to agitate
00:52:10.169 --> 00:52:15.694
a moral concern but where in fact
do they go now? They seem to be slipping,
00:52:15.694 --> 00:52:21.037
if you read carefully for instance the words
of Mr. Bayard Rustin, toward some sort of
00:52:21.037 --> 00:52:28.144
a procrustean formulation which ends up
less urging the advancement of the negro
00:52:28.144 --> 00:52:32.848
than the regression of the white people.
Fourteen times as many people in
00:52:32.848 --> 00:52:38.364
New York City born of negros are illegitimate
as of whites. This is a problem. How should
00:52:38.364 --> 00:52:43.694
be address this? By seeking out laws that
encourage the illlegitimacy in white people?
00:52:43.694 --> 00:52:48.984
This unfortunately tends to be the rhetorical
momentum of some of the arguments are taking.
00:52:49.194 --> 00:52:52.860
Audience member: One thing you might
do Mr. Buckley is let them vote in Mississippi.
00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:57.120
[applause]
00:52:57.120 --> 00:53:07.244
Buckley: I couldn't agree with you more
and for, except, lest I appear too
00:53:07.244 --> 00:53:12.452
ingratiating which is hardly my objective
here tonight. I think actually what is wrong
00:53:12.452 --> 00:53:16.750
in Mississippi, sir, is not that not enough
negros are voting but there are too many
00:53:16.750 --> 00:53:18.659
white people are voting.
00:53:18.659 --> 00:53:25.661
[laughter]
00:53:25.661 --> 00:53:33.316
Booker T. Washington said, "That the
important thing where negros are
00:53:33.316 --> 00:53:37.989
concerned is not that they hold
public office but they be prepared
00:53:37.989 --> 00:53:42.417
to hold public office. Not that they vote
but that they be prepared to vote.
00:53:42.417 --> 00:53:44.898
What are we going to do with the
negros having taught the negros
00:53:44.898 --> 00:53:49.929
in Mississippi to despise Barnett,
Ross Barnett, shall we then teach
00:53:49.929 --> 00:53:53.720
them to emulate their cousins
in Harlem and adore Adam
00:53:53.720 --> 00:53:58.538
Clayton Powell Jr. It is much more
complicated, sir, then simply the
00:53:58.538 --> 00:54:02.829
question of giving them the vote.
If I were myself a constituent of the
00:54:02.829 --> 00:54:06.810
community of Mississippi at this moment
what I would do is vote to lift the standards
00:54:06.810 --> 00:54:12.124
of the vote so as to disqualify sixty-five
percent of the white people who are
00:54:12.124 --> 00:54:14.444
presently voting, not simply...
00:54:14.444 --> 00:54:19.784
[applause]
00:54:19.784 --> 00:54:26.373
I say then what we need is a considerable
amount of frankness that acknowledges
00:54:26.373 --> 00:54:31.624
there are two sets of difficulties,
the difficulties of the white person who
00:54:31.624 --> 00:54:38.122
acts as white people, as brown people
and black people do all over the world to
00:54:38.122 --> 00:54:42.709
protect their own vested interests, who
have as all the races in the entire world
00:54:42.709 --> 00:54:50.349
have and suffer from a kind of racial
narcissism to which tend to always
00:54:50.349 --> 00:54:55.139
convert every contingency in such a way
to maximize their own power. That yes
00:54:55.139 --> 00:55:00.620
we must do, but we must also reach
through to the negro people and tell them
00:55:00.620 --> 00:55:05.982
that their best chances are in a mobile
society and the most mobile society
00:55:05.982 --> 00:55:11.048
in the world today my friends is the
United States of America. The most
00:55:11.048 --> 00:55:14.717
mobile society in the world is the
United States of America, and it is
00:55:14.717 --> 00:55:19.817
precisely that mobility which will give
opportunities to the negros which
00:55:19.817 --> 00:55:24.778
they must be encouraged to take, but
they must not in the course of their
00:55:24.778 --> 00:55:32.235
ordeal be encouraged to adopt the kind
of cynicism, the kind of despair, the kind
00:55:32.235 --> 00:55:38.266
of iconoclasm that is urged upon them
by Mr. Baldwin in his recent works because
00:55:38.266 --> 00:55:44.516
one thing I can tell you I believe with
absolute authority that where the
00:55:44.516 --> 00:55:50.654
United States is concerned if it ever
becomes a confrontation between a
00:55:50.654 --> 00:55:58.814
continuation of our own sort of idealism,
the private start of, which granted like
00:55:58.814 --> 00:56:02.285
most people in the world, we tend to
lavish only every now and then on
00:56:02.285 --> 00:56:06.694
public enterprises reserving it so often
for our own irritations and pleasures,
00:56:06.694 --> 00:56:13.761
but the fundamental friend of the negro
people in the United States is the good
00:56:13.761 --> 00:56:21.002
nature and is the generosity and is the
good wishes, is the decency, the fundamental
00:56:21.002 --> 00:56:26.908
decency that do lie at the preserves of the
spirit of the American people. These must
00:56:26.908 --> 00:56:31.726
not be laughed at and under no
circumstances must they be laughed
00:56:31.726 --> 00:56:36.723
at and under no circumstances must
America be addressed and told that
00:56:36.723 --> 00:56:42.090
the only alternative to the status
quo is to overthrow that civilization
00:56:42.090 --> 00:56:47.074
which we consider to be the faith
of our fathers, the faith indeed of
00:56:47.074 --> 00:56:52.435
your fathers. This is what must
animate whatever meliorism that must
00:56:52.435 --> 00:56:58.316
come because if it does finally come to
confrontation, a radical confrontation,
00:56:58.316 --> 00:57:02.991
between giving up what we understand
to be the best features of the American
00:57:02.991 --> 00:57:06.975
way of life, which at that level is
indistinguishable as far as I can see
00:57:06.975 --> 00:57:11.324
from the European way of life then
we will fight the issue and we will
00:57:11.324 --> 00:57:15.561
fight the issue not only in the Cambridge
Union but we will fight it as you were
00:57:15.561 --> 00:57:19.882
once recently called to do on beaches
and on hills and on mountains and
00:57:19.882 --> 00:57:24.665
on landing grounds and we will be
convinced that just as you won the
00:57:24.665 --> 00:57:31.132
war against a particular threat to
civilization, you were nevertheless
00:57:31.132 --> 00:57:36.186
waging a war in favor of and for
the benefit of Germans, your own
00:57:36.186 --> 00:57:40.549
enemies, just as we are convinced that if
it should ever come to that kind of a
00:57:40.549 --> 00:57:45.276
confrontation, our own determination
to win the struggle will be a determination
00:57:45.276 --> 00:57:49.314
to wage a war not only for whites but
also for negros.
00:57:49.314 --> 00:58:20.893
[long applause]
00:58:20.893 --> 00:58:26.451
President: Will the tellers take
their places please. Voted in favor of the
00:58:26.451 --> 00:58:29.715
motion, the motion being the American
Dream at the expense of the negro
00:58:29.715 --> 00:58:33.989
voted in favor of that motion five-hundred
and-forty-four persons and against,
00:58:33.989 --> 00:58:37.212
one hundred-and-sixty-four persons.
The motion is therefore carried by
00:58:37.212 --> 00:58:40.374
three-hundred-eighty-votes and I declare
the house to stand adjourned.
00:58:40.374 --> 00:58:47.884
[applause]