[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.61,0:00:13.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) [inaudible] \Nyour commitment to this case.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.01,0:00:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Ross was on the stand \NFriday afternoon,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.36,0:00:26.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you recall,\Nand I don't think we finished
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.09,0:00:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her examination on the State's case.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.89,0:00:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I'll let you all proceed.\N- (female attorney) Thank you, Your Honor.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.83,0:00:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Ross, when we broke on Friday,\Nwe had been discussing, basically,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.92,0:00:44.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your first steps in this case\Nand what you were asked to do
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.48,0:00:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I believe you testified \Nthat in September, you had received
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.95,0:00:50.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the remains of Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.85,0:00:52.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Dr. Ross) That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.35,0:00:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And at that time,\Nyou had been asked to undergo
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.50,0:00:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to render an opinion with regard\Nto a trauma examination
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.99,0:01:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of her skeletal remains.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.61,0:01:03.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Is that correct?\N- That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.81,0:01:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And you had \Ntestified about observing
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.88,0:01:12.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,various dismemberment sites\Nbased on the remains that you received.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.80,0:01:13.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.38,0:01:18.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) May I bring\Nthe skeleton around and ask Dr. Ross
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.08,0:01:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a few questions?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.10,0:01:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (Judge) Sure, you can do that.\N- (female attorney) And may she step down?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.16,0:01:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) She may. Certainly.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.01,0:01:44.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) At this time,\NIf I could also have published
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.06,0:01:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the screen, State's exhibit A509,\Nwhich is Dr. Ross' reports
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.49,0:01:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (Judge) Sure.\N- which have obviously been reduced.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.46,0:01:55.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Dr. Ross, you stand\Nbefore the jury now with the skeleton,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.18,0:01:59.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also this part of your report that's up\Non the screen-- this is what you prepared
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.93,0:02:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to illustrate what you observed\Nwith regard to the dismemberment sites.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.76,0:02:04.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that correct?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.77,0:02:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is correct and that was meant\Nto illustrate exactly
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.31,0:02:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the sites of dismemberment\Nwere conducted on Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.38,0:02:16.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what we can see here,\Nbased on that diagram as well,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.29,0:02:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that both her arms were removed\Nat the site of the upper aspect
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.96,0:02:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the humerus, which is \Nyour upper arm bone right here.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.56,0:02:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Her head was also taken off\Nat the fifth cervical vertebra,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.36,0:02:32.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the fifth neck bone\Non the way down
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.16,0:02:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around this area right here.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.69,0:02:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was also dismembered--\Nthe lumbar vertebra in this area, as well,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.33,0:02:47.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as in the upper aspect\Nof her femoral bone.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.44,0:02:53.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the picture that we saw also\Non Friday, this is the area
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.04,0:02:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we were looking\Nat with the cut marks here.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.72,0:03:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, she was bilaterally dismembered here,\Nand she was also bilaterally dismembered
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.05,0:03:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the lower part of the leg bone\Nright here as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.02,0:03:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And those conclusions\Nthat you reached were all as a result
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.24,0:03:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being able to examine\Nthe skeletal remains that you received,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.62,0:03:17.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which had cuttings that had been performed\Nby the medical examiner's office in Texas.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.35,0:03:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.35,0:03:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.36,0:03:22.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And so you again\Nwere able to distinguish in the areas
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.53,0:03:26.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you described the difference between\Nwhere the medical examiner had made a cut
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.65,0:03:29.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the difference between\Nthe dismemberment site itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.59,0:03:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.60,0:03:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, that is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.61,0:03:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And you've pointed out\Nthat the photograph that you testified
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.10,0:03:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,earlier on Friday about where we saw\Nthe 14 teeth prints.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.41,0:03:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes.\N- Would you point out again the area?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.82,0:03:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was in this area.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.93,0:03:49.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can't remember what side it was,\Nbut it was in this area right in here.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.47,0:03:54.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see that?\NAnd then you see the femoral head here.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.73,0:03:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it was at the point\Nwhere she was dismembered up here
Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.78,0:03:59.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the greater trochanter is.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.71,0:04:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And, again,\Nthat was a larger bone that was not
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.28,0:04:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as fragile, that you were able \Nto make some conclusions?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.16,0:04:10.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it has a thicker cortical bone,\Nwhich is what we need--
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.28,0:04:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the compact bone versus\Nthat spongy bone we talked about.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.12,0:04:18.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And at some point\Nlater in this investigation,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.54,0:04:25.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as far as your report, you used\Na particular bone to make some comparison
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.83,0:04:27.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using a pig proxy.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.19,0:04:28.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.19,0:04:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) While we have \Nthe skeleton here,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.36,0:04:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can you point out that area?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.19,0:04:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes. We use the pig proxy,\Nbecause, No. 1, it's the best proxy
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.04,0:04:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a human model that we have\Nand that's both in clinical settings
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.69,0:04:45.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in non-clinical settings,\Nso it's been well known to use--
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.19,0:04:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pigs are the best proxy for us.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.76,0:04:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the one we received\Nfrom Miss Ackerson, we had received
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.11,0:04:58.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a femur-- and, again, \Nthis is your femur right here--
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.08,0:05:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after we had initially investigated,\Nafter this report, and that femur
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.48,0:05:09.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been retained I believe\Nby the medical examiner in Texas.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.64,0:05:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then we received that later,\Nand it had some really good markings
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.46,0:05:14.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on it that we were able to compare.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.10,0:05:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those striations-- remember\Nthat we talked about,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.76,0:05:22.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you can actually see the etchings\Nof the saw on the bone--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.90,0:05:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we were able to examine those\Non Laura Ackerson
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.74,0:05:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then what we did was \Nwe were provided by Detective Faulk
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.35,0:05:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Skil reciprocating saw \Nwith various blades in there,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.35,0:05:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we tested those blades\Non the pig proxies and then compared
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.39,0:05:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those marks to those found\Non Miss Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.99,0:05:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (female attorney) And which bone?\N- It's on the femur.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.42,0:05:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (female attorney) Okay.\N- Yes, it's on the femur.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.46,0:05:52.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And as part\Nof this initial submission
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.99,0:05:56.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the examination\Nthat you conducted initially,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.26,0:06:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've also indicated that you observed\Nan injury to the bone in the neck.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.92,0:06:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, I did.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.92,0:06:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Can you describe\Nthe injury that you observed in that area?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.96,0:06:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The injury was on \Nthe fourth cervical vertebra,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.70,0:06:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you count from the top,\Nit would be right in here,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.38,0:06:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was on the anterior aspect\Nof the body of that vertebra
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.65,0:06:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was right in the middle\Nof that body
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.71,0:06:22.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was what we call\Na "stab wound."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.87,0:06:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it was a stab mark to the body\Nof that vertebra.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.47,0:06:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) When you use\Nthe term "stab wound," what distinction
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.77,0:06:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are you making when you use\Nthat terminology.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.96,0:06:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That terminology is based\Non when we have sharp force trauma.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.87,0:06:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, a cut wound would be a wound longer\Nthan it is deep
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.61,0:06:44.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it would be cutting action,\Ncutting motion.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.92,0:06:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A stab wound is deeper than it is long.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.09,0:06:49.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, meaning you were stabbing.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.68,0:06:54.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the depth would be deeper\Nthan it is long based on a cutting motion.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.11,0:06:57.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And you indicated\Nthat you observed
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.37,0:06:59.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that on the fourth cervical vertebra.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.09,0:07:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the fourth cervical vertebra, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.61,0:07:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And the vertebra\Nthat were present with the head
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.48,0:07:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the skull went down\Nto the fifth cervical vertebra.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.16,0:07:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, and at the fifth cervical vertebra,\Nyou could tell that it had been cut
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.24,0:07:16.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at that point and that's where the head\Nhad been removed -
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.79,0:07:18.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the fifth cervical vertebra.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.62,0:07:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) The cut\Nyou observed with regard
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.64,0:07:23.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the fifth cervical vertebra,\Nhow is it different than the stab wound
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.59,0:07:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the fourth cervical vertebra?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.52,0:07:30.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Multiple fracturing, cuts versus stabs,\Nand, because these bones
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.21,0:07:32.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are relatively small\Nin the upper neck area,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.66,0:07:35.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those fractured quite a bit.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.46,0:07:38.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that was the distinction between\Nthe stab and the cutting.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.31,0:07:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And explain\Nthe stab in terms of the cutting,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.72,0:07:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that wider than it is long?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.15,0:07:50.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it is longer or wider\Nthan it is deep.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.62,0:07:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Thank you.\NYou can return to the stand.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.12,0:07:58.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) Okay, sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.33,0:08:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) With regard \Nto the stab wound that you observed
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.03,0:08:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the fourth cervical vertebra,\Ndid you take a photograph
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.45,0:08:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that particular area\Nof Laura Ackerson's remains?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.39,0:08:25.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.65,0:08:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And did you include\Nthat as part of your report
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.32,0:08:30.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to illustrate your findings\Nand what you observed?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.66,0:08:31.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, I did.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.99,0:08:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) With regard\Nto that stab wound, is this the photograph
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.60,0:08:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's up on the screen now\Nfrom your report illustrating
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.11,0:08:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the stab wound?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.28,0:08:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.30,0:08:56.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And do you have\Nthe laser pointer up there?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.92,0:08:58.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think you've got it boxed off,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.57,0:08:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but is that...?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.97,0:09:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it's this area right here\Nwhere you can see
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.69,0:09:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is a stab wound right here,\Nand this is using
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.95,0:09:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a high-powered microscope, \Nso you can see the morphology
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.87,0:09:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that stab wound.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.83,0:09:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And can you explain
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.48,0:09:18.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why you would use\Nthe high-powered microscope?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.37,0:09:21.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Well, one of the reasons\Nwhy we use it is to look
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.75,0:09:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the morphology and also to see\Nif we can establish
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.74,0:09:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it was a single-bladed knife,\Na serrated knife, or a double-bladed knife
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.32,0:09:35.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we were able to establish here--\Nif you see this area right here
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.86,0:09:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you see this right here--\Nbased on the current literature
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.73,0:09:46.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on types of instruments used,\Nit is consistent with a serrated knife.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.36,0:09:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) With regard\Nto the stab wound--
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.72,0:10:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you've indicated\Nthat this was consistent
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.73,0:10:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a serrated knife--\Ndid you see any other areas
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.95,0:10:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the skeletal remains that showed\Nany stabs or stabbing
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.87,0:10:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from what you were seeing?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.04,0:10:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Not on the remains\Nthat I received. I did not.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.41,0:10:18.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Did you undertake\Nto kind of examine the cut marks
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.56,0:10:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you observed on the various remains\Nor various bones
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.34,0:10:25.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Laura Ackerson's remains\Nand make any conclusions
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.55,0:10:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with regard to the cut marks\Nthat were different from the stab wounds?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.41,0:10:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (Ross) Yes.\N- (female attorney) Can you describe that?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.94,0:10:36.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) We went through, as the one\Nthat we observed on Friday, we tried
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.10,0:10:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to establish the teeth per inch\Nthat was used
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.34,0:10:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cut the remains of Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.07,0:10:49.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also there was on the tibia,\Nthe anterior proximal portion,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.83,0:10:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I believe is the following image\Nafter this, you have this right here,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.56,0:10:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is generally called \Na "persistence mark."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.52,0:11:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We call them "persistence mark,"\Nbecause the perpetrator is persisting
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.16,0:11:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on cutting, they're not hesitating.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.95,0:11:11.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, "hesitation marks" would refer\Nto an individual that's hesitating.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.95,0:11:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when we're dealing with issues\Nof dismemberment,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.16,0:11:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're called "persistence marks."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.87,0:11:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these kind of marks\Nwill tell you a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.75,0:11:25.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we look at is the wall of each bone\Nand the base of that cut
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.19,0:11:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't go all the way\Nthrough the bone.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.43,0:11:33.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is called a "kerf," K-E-R-F,\Nand that kerf will give us information
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.17,0:11:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as to if it's a saw-- for example,\Nthe squared off edge at the bottom,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.89,0:11:42.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that tells us that it is a saw\Nthat was used versus, let's say, a knife.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.33,0:11:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A knife would have \Na V-shaped bottom or kerf wall.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.33,0:11:48.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, those are the types of things\Nthat we utilize.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.16,0:11:52.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And so the kerf wall\Nis actually a kerf--
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.01,0:11:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've used here "kerf floor"--
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.52,0:11:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.52,0:11:56.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) That refers\Nto the mark in the bone itself?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.98,0:12:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) That refers to the mark in the bone\Nand the floor is the bottom of that mark
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.20,0:12:03.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the walls would be the sides\Nof those marks.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.14,0:12:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) That gives\Nyou information with regard to,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.64,0:12:11.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you just testified, the type\Nof instrument that would've been used
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.15,0:12:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make those tool marks \Nor markings on the bone?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.28,0:12:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.62,0:12:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) You describe\Nthe persistence mark
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.04,0:12:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I believe you have "false starts"--
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.61,0:12:27.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) "False starts"\Nis also another term to use, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.37,0:12:32.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) What about these marks\Nleads you to be able to make conclusions
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.74,0:12:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with regard to hesitation or persistence?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.26,0:12:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Generally, hesitation marks\Nare referred
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.58,0:12:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to in situations of suicide,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.24,0:12:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when you're dealing with situations\Nof dismemberment, the perpetrator is,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.27,0:12:55.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, attempting to either conceal\Nor dispose of the remains
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.72,0:12:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a certain way, so their persisting \Nor they're called "false starts,"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.28,0:13:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they attempt one form\Nto dismember the body, it doesn't work,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.62,0:13:05.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they attempt in a different spot.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.35,0:13:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Based\Non what you observed,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.14,0:13:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did you see multiple false starts?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.29,0:13:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) My recollection\Nis that I didn't see that many.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.68,0:13:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then again, we did not have\Nthe complete set of remains
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.52,0:13:26.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.76,0:13:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) With regard\Nto the information that you did have
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.19,0:13:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that you were able to glean \Nfrom the examination
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.64,0:13:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Laura Ackerson's remains,\Ndid you make some conclusions
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.14,0:13:45.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with regard to the type of instrument\Nthat would have made the saw marks?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.54,0:13:46.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.55,0:13:49.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Can you describe\Nwhat conclusions you reached?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.77,0:13:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) I discussed it was based\Non the kerf floor--
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.60,0:13:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was based on all the TPI
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.48,0:14:01.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and based on the conclusions\Nthat we had,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.16,0:14:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had initially observed\Nthat it could have been
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.22,0:14:09.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a hand-powered versus\Na mechanical-powered, however,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.62,0:14:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a paucity of research\Nthat has been done in these types of cases
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.24,0:14:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my recommendations were to test\Nthe reciprocating saw,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.11,0:14:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's when we went ahead\Nand tested that with the pig proxies.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.61,0:14:28.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) So, at the point\Nbefore you even knew
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.55,0:14:32.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the reciprocating saw,\Nyou had made some conclusions
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.12,0:14:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you believed that this, in fact,\Nwas a saw that was used--
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.04,0:14:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.64,0:14:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) At that point, \Nyou didn't know
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.68,0:14:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether or not it was \Nmechanical or power.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.53,0:14:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Correct. Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.24,0:14:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Were you able to--\Nbased on the teeth per inch or TPI,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.24,0:14:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were you able to rule out a number\Nof possible saws that could've been used?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.20,0:14:55.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) I believe we were able to rule out\Nseveral saws based on the TPI.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.09,0:15:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) At this point,\Nafter you've had these remains
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.90,0:15:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and had your opportunity to examine\Nthe various sites and look under
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.90,0:15:13.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the microscope, was it your opinion\Nthat two different tools had been used
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.28,0:15:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with regard to Laura Ackerson's remains\Nand the evidence that was left?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.79,0:15:23.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Yes, one was based\Non the stab wound on the cervical vertebra
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.06,0:15:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was very different than what was used\Nto dismember her body, which was a saw.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.02,0:15:34.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And was there anything\Nabout the saw marks on her remains
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.94,0:15:38.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that indicated to you that it was more\Nthan one saw or different saws?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.24,0:15:46.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) In many of her remains\Nthat we -- I think we could clearly state
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.06,0:15:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it was most likely one saw\Nthat was used, however, it's possible
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.26,0:15:54.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that more than one was utilized,\Nbut, again, we did not have
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.26,0:15:55.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the full set of remains.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.73,0:16:02.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) At a later time,\Ndid you receive information
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.21,0:16:09.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a reciprocating saw\Nhad been discovered as being purchased
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.96,0:16:12.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the time\Nof Laura Ackerson's murder?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.65,0:16:13.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.28,0:16:19.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Can you describe \Na reciprocating saw and how that works?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.22,0:16:24.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) A reciprocating saw\Nis a mechanical-powered saw
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.99,0:16:30.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it has blades that reciprocate\Nin and out and leave certain striations.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.71,0:16:33.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney)\NAfter learning
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.15,0:16:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that may be relevant in this case,\N[inaudible] about what could be done
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.63,0:16:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from that point forward?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.16,0:16:46.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, I recommended that we be provided\Nwith the same brand and type
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.18,0:16:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of reciprocating saw as was found\Nin evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.16,0:16:53.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also with the same blades, \Nnumerous blades that came
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.82,0:16:57.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the reciprocating saw\Nand other blades that I believe
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.11,0:16:58.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been purchased.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.86,0:17:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we recommended also to test\Nthat saw on our pig proxies.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.76,0:17:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And so was\Na Skil reciprocating saw provided to you
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.98,0:17:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Detective Faulk?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.32,0:17:14.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.36,0:17:18.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And you've indicated\Nyou also received the blades
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.44,0:17:21.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that came with that saw as well\Nas an additional blade
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.08,0:17:22.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had been purchased separately.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.48,0:17:23.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.48,0:17:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.50,0:17:26.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) May I approach Dr. Ross?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.36,0:17:49.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Ross, this is State's exhibit 511.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.38,0:17:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you recognize this?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.64,0:17:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, I do.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.65,0:17:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) What is this?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.93,0:17:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the Skil reciprocating saw\Nthat was provided to me for comparison.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.30,0:18:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Is this a saw\Nthat requires being plugged in?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.27,0:18:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.28,0:18:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) OK.\NAnd there are two blades
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.89,0:18:13.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are taped to the top of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.21,0:18:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.30,0:18:17.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Are these the blades\Nthat came with this saw?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.62,0:18:18.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.48,0:18:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Did you make notes\Nto be able
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.41,0:18:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to recognize those blades in terms\Nof the numbers that are on them?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.56,0:18:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, the numbers are listed in my report\Nand also the type of blades
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.21,0:18:32.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were used,\Nwhich is a wood-fast blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.93,0:18:39.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also handing you what has been marked\Nfor identification as State's exhibit 512.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.71,0:18:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.73,0:18:44.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Know that?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.02,0:18:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do.\NThis was the additional blade
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.66,0:18:50.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was used as well\Nand this was the all-purpose blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.34,0:18:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And so at the time\Nthat Detective Faulk came to you,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.30,0:18:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he provided you with the Skil saw,\Nwhich is State's exhibit 511,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.62,0:19:03.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as an additional blade,\Nwhich is State's exhibit 512.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.72,0:19:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.74,0:19:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) The Skil saw came\Nwith the two blades
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.02,0:19:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are taped to the top of the box.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.58,0:19:09.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.50,0:19:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) The saw\Nyou received, did it appear
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.68,0:19:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be brand new?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.32,0:19:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were all brand new.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.54,0:19:20.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had to actually open the packaging.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.06,0:19:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) I move
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.09,0:19:26.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to introduce new evidence,\NState's exhibit 511 and 512.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.94,0:19:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) [unintelligible] received.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.43,0:19:37.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And Dr. Ross, \Nafter receiving the saw and the saw blade,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.43,0:19:41.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can you describe for the jury the process\Nyou went through at that point?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.66,0:19:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, at that point we tested the two types\Nof blades; so the Skil saw came
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.66,0:19:53.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with two of the same type of blade,\Nwhich was the wood blade
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.47,0:19:55.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the all-purpose blade as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.34,0:20:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we tested both those blades\Non the pig proxies and then what we did -
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.27,0:20:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we also tested them using a model -\Nwe didn't deflesh the pig bones at first.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.32,0:20:09.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We wanted to be as consistent\Nas it was, for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.29,0:20:12.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to real life scenario where she\Nwould have been dismembered
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.95,0:20:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with all her tissue, so we did\Nthe same thing with the pig bones.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.72,0:20:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We actually cut through tissue\Nand bone using what we called -
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.84,0:20:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remember we discussed\Nwet versus dry bone -
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.59,0:20:28.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that the bone was wet\Nand would be an appropriate comparison.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.13,0:20:34.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After that point, then we processed\Nthe remains in order to take off
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.15,0:20:37.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the tissue and in order to be able\Nto examine them under
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.34,0:20:39.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the microscope\Nand make our comparisons.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:42.00,0:20:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And did you\Neventually record your findings,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.40,0:20:48.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your [unintelligible]\NState's exhibit A510,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.89,0:20:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which has previously been entered\Ninto evidence?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:50.99,0:20:52.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.01,0:20:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And what were\Nthe results of you findings?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.81,0:21:02.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The results of our findings \Nwere that the all-purpose saw
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.89,0:21:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were not consistent with the saw marks\Nthat were found on Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.80,0:21:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, the saw marks produced\Nby the wood-fast saw were consistent
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.62,0:21:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the cuts and the striations found\Non Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.74,0:21:30.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And in terms\Nof the Skil saw that you were provided
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.07,0:21:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you were using to make\Nyour comparisons in this case,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.77,0:21:36.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are there multiple speeds\Nthat are available?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.77,0:21:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, yes there are multiple speeds\Nwith the actual reciprocating saw.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.06,0:21:41.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we also tested the speeds.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.75,0:21:46.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At what point could you get through\Nthe tissue and get to the bone
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.35,0:21:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make those cuts?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.76,0:21:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we found\Nthat it was a speed five setting
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.23,0:21:53.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the wood-fast saw.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.45,0:22:01.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) How far do\Nthe speeds go?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.87,0:22:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, was that toward the upper end\Nor do you recall?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.46,0:22:08.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Probably mid-to-upper I would recall.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.27,0:22:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.68,0:22:16.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) What you found
Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.05,0:22:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the one of the blades\Nthat had actually come
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.49,0:22:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Skil saw matched the marks\Nthat you saw on Laura Ackerson's remains.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.68,0:22:25.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.69,0:22:27.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney)\NThis was the femur bone--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.65,0:22:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.66,0:22:30.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) --that you had\Nto compare.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.40,0:22:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes and that was the second bone\Nthat we had received after
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.77,0:22:37.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first examination.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.02,0:22:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And was that an area\Nwhere you had had a good,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.15,0:22:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a wide enough and detailed enough area\Nto really see these striation marks?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.50,0:22:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it was good compact bone\Nthat we could examine the striations.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.15,0:22:59.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) \NYou indicated you made a comparison
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.66,0:23:01.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under the microscope.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.35,0:23:07.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did you attach a photograph magnified
Dialogue: 0,0:23:08.12,0:23:10.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to illustrate your findings with regard
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.37,0:23:16.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the marks you observed on the pig proxy\Nwith the saw blade that came
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.64,0:23:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Skil saw at speed five\Nto Laura Ackerson's remains?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.84,0:23:23.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, that's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.49,0:23:30.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Your Honor,\Nmay I publish A510
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.02,0:23:31.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with regard to this photograph?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.37,0:23:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (Judge) You may.\N- (female attorney) This is your report.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.09,0:23:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.39,0:23:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first photograph that you have\Nup on the screen - you actually have two.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.36,0:23:52.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you have your report there?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.71,0:23:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) I do.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.72,0:23:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are we seeing\Nin this first photograph?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.55,0:23:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) What we're seeing here,\Nthese are the remains of Laura Ackerson
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.33,0:24:04.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what we are examining here,\Nas you can see, you see these striations,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.71,0:24:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these are the striations\Nthat we would use as comparison.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.78,0:24:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This right here is adipocere.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.94,0:24:17.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Adipocere or another crude term\Nfor it is "waxy fat."
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.10,0:24:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, when you are exposed to a wet\Nor moist environment, your fatty tissues
Dialogue: 0,0:24:22.88,0:24:25.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will turn into this waxy fat or adipocere.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.59,0:24:27.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is all we're seeing here.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.10,0:24:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not part of the examination\Nthat we're making the comparison to.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.38,0:24:33.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what you should look at here\Nare these striations.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.62,0:24:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the blade, the all-purpose blade\Nthat was provided.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.04,0:24:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you can see, it's much wider
Dialogue: 0,0:24:40.58,0:24:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the striations that were observed\Non Laura Ackerson.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.80,0:24:51.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) So, that lower part\Nthat's identified as "pig proxy,"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.77,0:24:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those striations were made as a result\Nof using the second blade
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.24,0:24:58.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that did not come as part of the Skil saw.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.09,0:24:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) That is correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.67,0:25:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) Dr. Ross, \Ncan you explain what's shown here
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.21,0:25:10.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this second set of photographs?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:11.13,0:25:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) This is that same photograph\Nof Ms. Ackerson and this down here
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.28,0:25:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the comparison of that wood-fast blade\N
Dialogue: 0,0:25:22.18,0:25:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as you can see,\Nit's a match to what we had up here.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.45,0:25:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) That bottom photograph
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.20,0:25:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the pig proxy was the photograph\Nthat was taken of the part of the pig leg
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.26,0:25:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had been dismembered using\Nthe Skil saw as well as the blade
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.24,0:25:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that came with that Skil saw\Nat speed number five.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.08,0:25:57.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.30,0:26:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) You identified\Nthat blade in your report
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.44,0:26:11.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the one that matched, which is the one\Nthat is the wood-fast blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.72,0:26:12.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) The wood-fast blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.81,0:26:14.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) The number\Nof that blade?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.60,0:26:17.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Let me go back to my report.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:24.47,0:26:27.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is 94061.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:31.69,0:26:33.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) That's all I have.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.48,0:26:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) Do you have questions?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:36.03,0:26:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.53,0:26:38.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good morning, Dr. Ross.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.54,0:26:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Ross) Good morning.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.12,0:26:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me ask you first,\Nwhen you received the remains
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.69,0:26:46.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Dr. Radich,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.51,0:26:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did you receive only bone, bone tissue?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.08,0:26:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was bone and I believe\Nthere was some tissue,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.81,0:27:02.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because some of the containers\Nhad formalin in them.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.69,0:27:06.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there was some with tissue,\Nbut mostly bone.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:08.53,0:27:15.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did it become necessary\Nin your testing that the flesh be removed?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.64,0:27:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did not macerate any remains\Nfor this case.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.37,0:27:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Now, the bone\Nthat you examined, how would you describe
Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.96,0:27:29.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the human bone in the sense\Nof its density?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.74,0:27:33.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, it depends on what site\Nyou are looking at.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.98,0:27:37.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we have heavier bones, \Nsuch as the femora,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:38.20,0:27:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would be more dense\Nthan in other areas.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.46,0:27:45.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas, you would have a less dense area\Nif it would have more spongy
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.96,0:27:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the honeycomb structures.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.46,0:27:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) And do bones\Nthat are dense, such as the femur,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.00,0:27:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would you agree that it's difficult
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.32,0:28:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to saw those bones in half
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.02,0:28:08.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using a reciprocal saw?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:10.35,0:28:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know; I don't generally saw bones\Nwith reciprocating saws,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.44,0:28:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I'm assuming it would depend\Non the person,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.46,0:28:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on where on the bone,\Nbecause you have various areas.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.72,0:28:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Would it add\Nto the difficulty
Dialogue: 0,0:28:29.22,0:28:31.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of dismembering a body
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.14,0:28:37.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the flesh was still on the bone?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.68,0:28:41.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That also depends.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.23,0:28:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were able to do it with speed five
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.22,0:28:49.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a certain type of blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.06,0:28:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were not able to do so\Nwith the all-purpose blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.68,0:28:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) You were not able\Nto saw
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.32,0:28:57.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the all-purpose blade?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:57.50,0:29:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, we weren't able to do it adequately\Nwith the all-purpose.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.53,0:29:02.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was a lot more difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.90,0:29:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) But you were able\Nto do it with the wood-fast blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.17,0:29:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.19,0:29:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) How many\Ndifferent portions of the remains
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.17,0:29:24.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were provided to you?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.85,0:29:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Of Miss Ackerson?\N- (male attorney) Yes, ma'am.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.84,0:29:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were a number of portions provided\Nin the first test
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.97,0:29:37.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then on the final examination\Nwhere we compared these remains,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.03,0:29:38.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe it was just one femur.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.95,0:29:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Once you had those remains\Nin your possession,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.47,0:29:55.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I take it that the next thing you would do\Nwould be to examine the striations
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.16,0:29:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the portions of the bones\Nthat were dismembered.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.36,0:30:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Am I correct?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.37,0:30:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.22,0:30:04.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) And that's one\Nof the photograph's that you've shown
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.95,0:30:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the photograph taken\Nof the striations on the femur.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.84,0:30:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.88,0:30:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Now, you also said
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.80,0:30:17.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in order to determine
Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.99,0:30:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the type of saw
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.38,0:30:24.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was used to do the dismemberment,\Nthat it was necessary to use a pig proxy.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.34,0:30:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes.\N- (male attorney) Discuss that process.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.55,0:30:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was necessary to use a pig proxy,\Nbecause we did not have
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.68,0:30:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we don't advocate using human cadavers\Nfor these types of studies,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.04,0:30:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of ethical issues,\Nso pigs are the best proxy
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.66,0:30:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use in these types of situations.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:46.74,0:30:48.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Do you start\Nwith a live pig?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.80,0:30:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No. (chuckles)
Dialogue: 0,0:30:53.82,0:30:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Describe for me,\Nif you will, the differences between
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.89,0:31:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the blood vessel system of a pig\Nand a human.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.89,0:31:03.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That I don't know.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:06.65,0:31:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) I take it you received\Na pig that has its flesh on its bones.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.45,0:31:12.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.88,0:31:24.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) How long had it been,\Nin this instance, since the pig
Dialogue: 0,0:31:24.55,0:31:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you used had died?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.46,0:31:27.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was fresh killed.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.80,0:31:34.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did you attempt\Nto saw through the flesh of the pig
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.18,0:31:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the reciprocating chainsaw?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.55,0:31:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We removed his forelimbs and hind limbs
Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.51,0:31:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those were the ones\Nthat we actually used for the test.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.70,0:31:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) You sawed\Nthrough the flesh in order
Dialogue: 0,0:31:48.74,0:31:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get through the bone.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.76,0:31:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.41,0:31:52.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did it create debris?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.11,0:31:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Did it create debris?\N- (male attorney) Debris.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.07,0:31:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We did it outdoors.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.95,0:32:01.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we were wearing\Nfull personal protective equipment.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.85,0:32:05.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did it in a dirty area?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.64,0:32:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We did it in a field.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.86,0:32:10.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, in a research field.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.25,0:32:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) One of the reasons\Nthat you do that is because you don't want
Dialogue: 0,0:32:16.52,0:32:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to mess up your room with whatever debris\Nis created by the sawing
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.38,0:32:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the pig proxy, correct?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.40,0:32:26.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, not necessarily.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.77,0:32:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason\Nthat we do that is because we're dealing
Dialogue: 0,0:32:28.84,0:32:34.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a large hog and the best way\Nto carry him out is in the back of a truck
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.39,0:32:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and place him in the field and start\Nat the field site,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:37.53,0:32:43.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we have conducted comparisons\Nin the laboratory under our hoods.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.56,0:32:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Could you cut\Nthrough flesh and bone
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.78,0:32:54.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the wood-fast saw?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.63,0:32:55.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.96,0:32:58.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) You couldn't cut\Nthrough the bone and flesh
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.31,0:32:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.70,0:33:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were, but it was more difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:02.65,0:33:04.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) I see.\NOK.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.16,0:33:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, once you've done that,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:12.49,0:33:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were you then able to put
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.93,0:33:20.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the various portions of the pig bones\Nunder the microscope to determine
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.73,0:33:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the nature of the striations?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:24.83,0:33:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.59,0:33:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) And from there, \Nyou make the comparison between
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.06,0:33:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the striations on the pig bone\Nto the striations
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.88,0:33:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on Laura Ackerson's femur.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.81,0:33:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.84,0:33:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (male attorney) As seen on the board.\N- Exactly.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.90,0:33:47.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Is that there was a match\Nbetween the fast--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.22,0:33:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The wood-fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.25,0:33:54.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) --wood-fast saw,\Nbut there was not a match
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.27,0:33:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the other saw.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.74,0:33:57.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.82,0:34:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Was the wood-fast saw used
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.79,0:34:09.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the reciprocating Skil saw\Nthat you have before you?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.57,0:34:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.53,0:34:22.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) After you had done
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.13,0:34:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your cutting of the pig proxy\Nin the field,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.34,0:34:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was it necessary to clean up\Nbehind yourself?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.96,0:34:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, we always clean up behind ourselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.80,0:34:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's standard practice.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.04,0:34:38.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) What do you take\Nto clean?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:38.73,0:34:43.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We clean up any kind\Nof biohazardous material,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:43.11,0:34:46.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's blood or tissue\Nor what have you.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.45,0:34:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did you clean\Nup blood then?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.64,0:34:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.22,0:34:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) When you cut through\Nthe pig vessels,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:56.58,0:34:59.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did it create a spray of blood?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.31,0:35:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:00.73,0:35:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did it create a spray\Nof tissue when you cut through
Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.73,0:35:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the pig proxy tissue?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:09.30,0:35:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't recall a spray of tissue.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.01,0:35:18.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Did the Skil saw jam\Nup with the flesh
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.06,0:35:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you tried to cut through it?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:21.41,0:35:23.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not to my recollection.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:31.11,0:35:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) You also indicated\Nthat you found what you describe
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.17,0:35:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a stab wound\Non the fourth cervical vertebra.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.03,0:35:40.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.99,0:35:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Was that a stab wound\Nthat was created by a knife
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.50,0:35:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a sharp point?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.26,0:35:49.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most likely, yes, with a serrated knife.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:49.84,0:35:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) A serrated point.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.28,0:35:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A serrated blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.46,0:35:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) A serrated blade.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.89,0:35:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:05.56,0:36:12.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Is there any way to tell\Nwhich occurred first: the dismemberment
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.23,0:36:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the knife wound?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.80,0:36:15.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, there's not.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.51,0:36:33.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) A moment,\NYour Honor?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.96,0:36:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) Sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.24,0:36:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) A couple questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.61,0:36:54.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just for clarification purposes,\Nthat Skil saw was the same saw
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.42,0:36:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was used in this.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.87,0:36:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There weren't other saws used.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:57.40,0:37:00.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was only the Skil saw provided\Nby Detective Faulk.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.40,0:37:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And the blades,\Nwhich have been referred
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.73,0:37:08.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to as the wood-fast and the all-purpose,\Nthose were the (inaudible) same saw
Dialogue: 0,0:37:08.02,0:37:09.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was used,\Nbut two different kinds
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.69,0:37:10.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of blades.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.70,0:37:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.65,0:37:18.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(female attorney) And the serrated knife,\Nby "serrated" you mean as you showed
Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.05,0:37:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the photograph--
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.12,0:37:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it has scalloped edges.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:24.95,0:37:28.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, almost like large bread knife\Nthat you would cut
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.34,0:37:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has serrated edges,\Nthat's what we mean by "serrated."
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.72,0:37:36.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (female attorney) Thank you, that's all.\N- (Judge) Go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.40,0:37:38.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) I have one other thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.76,0:37:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You indicated that you saw\Nthat there were some "false starts."
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.82,0:37:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.04,0:37:51.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) What that would indicate,\Nwould it not, was that the person
Dialogue: 0,0:37:51.37,0:37:55.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was doing the dismemberment\Nhad attempted
Dialogue: 0,0:37:58.44,0:38:02.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to sever the flesh and bone\Nat that point,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.63,0:38:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for some reason\Nwasn't successful?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.98,0:38:08.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:08.23,0:38:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) So, that person\Nwould then go on to a second spot
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.15,0:38:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and attempt--
Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.24,0:38:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, either in the same spot\Nor another spot and it appeared
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.33,0:38:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was a different spot.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.64,0:38:20.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.66,0:38:24.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) How many false starts\Ndid you see in the area of the femur?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.54,0:38:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I don't remember.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.82,0:38:31.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have that recollection.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:33.69,0:38:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) Is the femur\Nthe hardest bone in the body?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.97,0:38:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The shaft is pretty hard, yes,\Nbut the distal ends are not,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.84,0:38:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they are composed of a lot\Nof spongy bone.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.29,0:38:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) So, it would've been\Nmore difficult to saw the femur
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.19,0:38:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the feet, for example.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.67,0:39:01.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, it depends, because if you do,\Nfor example, on the tibia,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.54,0:39:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's a pretty hard bone, too,\Nand that's at the point of the ankles.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.99,0:39:08.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, dismembering a body, just in general,\Nis very difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.40,0:39:18.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(male attorney) That's all.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.55,0:39:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, ma'am.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:21.06,0:39:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Judge) Thank you very much.