[Music]
welcome to the gamedev.tv
community podcast i'm your host kb and i
would like to introduce you
to industry professionals and people who
successfully made their path
to the video game industry i hope that
you will enjoy the podcast and get
useful tips that'll bring you closer to
achieving your dreams
now let's get right into the podcast
lauren googie welcome to the gamedev.tv
podcast
thank you if you are a ceo of the
cinematic pie
correct chromatic pie or magpie my bad
i knew it i was like i looked it up
early and i was like i don't think
that's right
we had a chromatic pie so explain a
little bit what that that is and a
little bit about who you are and then
we'll go from there
well uh my name is lauren and i'm born
and raised in new zealand
down under under and um i
just have a passion for video games as a
lot of us do it's very deep seated for
me from
childhood um and i just
i just found my home really i found i'm
so lucky that i've found
a place where i can grow a career and
really expand into all sorts of
different
corners of it which is what i'm doing
with chromatic pie
that's awesome yes i saw the little bit
about it
you're basically trying to represent all
communities
in one basically right yeah so that's
that's really good nowadays because it's
like we need more of that so people can
feel like representative and just
connected and all that stuff but i want
to get
to how you got started follow this so
back when you were younger did you
play a lot of games were you into game
design or you were just doing your thing
like
what's your story my story so when i was
younger um
my my dad was a gamer since before i was
born
so i would watch him play quake doom and
half-life
probably a bit too young to watch but
like i just loved it you know i
he'd play it and i was so enthralled by
what was going on on this computer
screen and it was like a whole
new experience whole new world for me so
i grew up
with that and so we had the sega master
system too which i
still have it's uh on one of my shelves
in the lounge with all the games
um i have chuck rock and
i've got asterisks and a balux
[Music]
um so we had that one and then of course
we went up to the playstation one
my dad also had a a game boy um and a
few of the types of those
um but that was like his one he didn't
let us play on it too much because it
was
it was his thing yeah you want to mess
up the save data
yeah um and then yeah
just their ps2 uh xbox you know it just
sort of it just evolved over time and
when i was at school i would quite often
just come home and uh
you know drop my bag down and just play
video games
um until you know homework or dinner
time so
for me video games has always been a
part of my life um
for me i i started in the entertainment
aspect of things
i was going through quite a hard time in
my life in my early 20s and i found this
youtuber
called the red bread and so i started
watching his
let's plays and you know he helped me
through my situation
and you know we all go through things
but i found that
people playing video games for others
was just this amazing medium and i
really wanted to tap into that myself
and so
that's really where my uh streaming
career began
and i this is a lengthy story
no worries yeah it's all good we all
want to hear it
yeah yeah so i guess from you know
streaming on twitch it just sort of took
off
and uh i just i just loved interacting
with people
in real time and i earned enough money
where i could fly to america for my very
first time
and attend the the first twitchcon uh
and
i kept returning to go to other gaming
conventions
and so i just loved networking loved
meeting the community and just loved
what i did
um but i found through playing my video
games on the hardest difficulty
which is something not everyone does but
i i love a challenge i found from that
that i became more interested in game
design and um
you know the mechanics of of combat and
boss fights and
i just really wanted to learn more and
so i
i put out on twitter one day you know
i'm looking for a
a community management position because
i knew community management quite well
um from this the twitch side of things
so i got a job as a community manager at
a studio um
here in wellington where i currently am
and then they offered me to be a
producer because they saw some
potential in me so i took that role uh
and then of course covered hit oh no
yeah and
you know the layoffs and all that sort
of jazz so i found myself in a position
where i was like you know what
i love video games i see uh
sort of gaps within the industry for
inclusion diversity
and accessibility and i really want to
use my leverage from all the the work
i've done over the years
um you know all the social media
presence that i've built up
and really just build something
meaningful and that's going to help you
know propel
the industry in new zealand but also
globally
you know we need to see more inclusive
and accessibility
in games i agree that's beautiful story
thanks now i want to get into the whole
you playing games on the hard difficulty
is that something you just want to
challenge yourself like what is the
thought process because i'm gonna say
i'm on the same thing but i do it
because like
go big and go home gotta prove myself
that i'm really good stuff
that's it you know i i started doing it
because i just wanted
like something else you know something
more interesting
um and you know it you i'd start a game
and this is on twitch and it's in front
of people so it's not like i'm just
doing it at home by myself which is
way better yeah right you know you're
not as vulnerable
yeah yeah yeah exactly watch me die like
all these times and people would like
come and go like ah she's not really
good but then
you know a few hours into every game i
overcome that learning curve and then i
end up just propelling to the finish
and for me that feeling is just i love
that feeling you know that i've
i've stuck it in and i've learned the
mechanics and i can really knuckle down
and just like get through the game
and i just love that sense of um
accomplishment and
uh the people that watch me they also
they're like wow
you know you actually did the thing
you're really good [ __ ]
no but seriously it's it's weird because
like you when you
start to play in hard difficulties and
you get better and better and better you
really become good at the game like i
played god of war and got a war mode and
you really can't get hit
oh my gosh then you get to a point
you're doing all the cool stuff you're
like you can't touch me you can't get me
i've learned the tricks i've learned
this stuff i know when you're gonna hit
me it's
it's incredible and and it's it's cool
because you go into this like flow state
where you you just won't give up until
you get there which i think can
translate into like game design game
programming like
you get to a point where you're like
you're going to fail but like well in
the game i failed but i kept failing
failing and eventually i made it so
maybe the same thing can happen here i
don't know if you have the same type of
like perspective when you play these
hard
games but yeah definitely there was a
pattern god of war
earlier in the game on god of war mode
that i was playing in
it was just you had the x but you had
all those uh i can't remember
their names but they were like frozen
and if you hit them they came to life
um and it was really hard to avoid you
know you're in this confined
area and um that part i
i was stuck there so many times and died
so many times but
after then it really set me up for like
the rest of the game and then
whenever those enemies came along i was
like you guys are nothing
did you beat the game like the whole
game i did yep
i couldn't balder at the end i tried so
many times i got to like the last part
of his health and i just i was like i'm
done
i've spent i think i spent like a whole
day actually like 24 hours on it and i
was like all right
it's it's time it's time to cut it yeah
yeah sometimes you have to sit back and
be like
i'll come back to this i got close
enough because i watched a little bit
afterwards i was like oh no i'm at the
end of the game i pretty much beat it
so but the hardest part too and i don't
think you didn't easy
is when you got them low enough health
they would like
re-heal and then have a second bar
health so i remember i was watching my
friend playing like damn i was like bro
this is too easy
i'm just like slashes and i'm like you
have to go gotta warm up makes you
better
it makes you stronger so yeah no it's
that
yeah i remember being on top of the the
mountains
when you get the achievement after
walking through this this cave scene
and um the music plays and it's just
this like
oh i did it that's such a good game i
can't wait for the next one
now when you were doing your producer
jump how was what was that like how did
you
prepare for that and you evolved in that
role
wow yeah so being a producer for the
first time was uh
quite it was quite something you know
when when i was a part of um the studios
called a44 games um they didn't really
have a
producer structure at the time
so we had um two other producers at the
time another junior another mid-level
producer
um so we didn't really have a program to
really
nestle into but then we got a senior
producer in
from the united states and she was just
incredible she came in february last
year
and of course i think i left in
june i believe so i was only there with
her for a short amount of time but
gosh she had like 30 years experience
and i really just got to go under her
wing
and learn you know how successful you
know how she's made herself successful
and helped other companies
and so i really took a lot from that you
know i'm someone that
absorbs a lot uh probably more than i
lead on to
as well um and i really just take it all
in take it on board
i was the producer for um
coding first and then i jumped over to
design
so i was looking after systems narrative
you know all the different facets of
design
so during that as well i got to
understand you know
how the different departments
communicate with each other um
got to understand you know what the
different departments actually
do what it's about how it all comes to
life
and i just yeah i just gained such a
passion for it and was like you know
what i know enough to start an indie
game company
you know i don't want to start this big
triple a like you know but i can start
indian like and go from there so
yeah i loved being a producer it was
great wow
okay and so did you go to school for any
game
design game development or this was just
from twitch and then eventually evolving
towards being a producer and then
or how did that yeah yeah i think yeah
um it was lucky you know i wanted
a i wanted a career uh some more
financial stability in my life um
you know that twitch couldn't really
give me so i thought you know community
management would be
the gig and um that felt like a natural
step to do that but when they offered me
a job as a producer
you know it sort of opened doors for me
and i
i did see myself wanting to be a
creative director one day while i was at
the studio
you know like leveling up to that level
over over a certain amount of years
um but no you know i asked other
creative directors within the studio i
was like you know would you recommend
going to school
for something like this and they're like
no you can learn it all in house
and a lot of teams are like that you
know they will um
help support you to to get to the the
status that you want to get to
over time um but you know if you want to
go to
a game design school and whatnot those
are definitely
helpful but if you're already in the
industry and you've worked at a game
studio
and you feel like you have enough
experience to start something
um you know there's really nothing
holding you back and um
yeah i would just say just go for it
like i have i have a bit of courage
though
it does take courage but uh yeah yeah i
was gonna ask
dude were you nervous not well let's not
talk about the suit yet but were you
nervous when they were like
you want to be a producer and then yeah
because you know experience before so
you were like i have community
management experience but not producers
how did you feel about that were you
like
let's just bring it on or was your
mindset yeah um
for yes i was i was you know i've got a
really optimistic attitude
and uh you know i just feel like you
know anything i could put my mind to
i can i can do it and if if it doesn't
turn out it doesn't turn out you know
what have you got to lose so
i really just gave it my all um and
really tried to learn
in my own way in my own time about how
everything works and
i got to know the people at the studio
as well you know not just
from a level of you know telling them
when their
tasks were due or milestones and whatnot
but actually you know getting to know
them as people
and um how these different individuals
work together but so differently
you know and so i that's what i really
loved about being a producer was that
the communication aspect and that like
the human level of like i don't i'm not
just going to be this person that tells
you
what to do where to go but actually like
you know get amongst it
okay wow that's crazy that's
it's just it's insane because i've known
a lot of people even myself where it's
just like
i don't know if i feel ready for that
even though i've done a lot of different
things
i've never done it so you feel kind of
nervous you get that pushback but it's
like you got to try it
to learn what it's like and infinitely
yeah
so going to the twitch how did you get
that started you just started
streaming started playing games and
showing the world with like how did you
get how did you get popular
all right so uh i started streaming in
january 2015
so i've actually been doing it for six
years now
and we'll probably keep doing it till
i'm elderly i suppose
why not kind of weird yeah i mean
at that stage i guess it'll be like
normal we'll be like the first ones to
be like elderly
gaming personalities or whatever but
that's really funny that'd be
interesting you'd be in all ground would
be like hey
you guys ready to play some whatever
yeah like your followers have
followed you through since you know your
conception you're all
old you know i wonder
oh my goodness so for me you know i
started with destiny
and you know disney came out september
2014 so it was kind of new
um especially on twitch and i just grew
a community there
and uh i don't know i guess at the time
there wasn't many new zealand streamers
as well so i had the advantage of
an interesting accent um of course um
i was a female which we don't have like
a leg up but
um it does it can help you know on a
platform that's majority of male viewers
you know
so you know from all these different
angles you know i was just getting a lot
of followers a lot of viewers
and i really built up a really special
community
and so from then i just decided you know
what you know i was getting about a
thousand viewers it was actually going
really successful
but then i wanted to to go to variety it
was just i couldn't play
this one game like day in day out day in
day out anymore
even if it meant money you know i that's
just me i i
have to be authentic uh to my core when
i can
and so when i did that you know um my
viewership went down but then it
gradually built back up and then my
community was just
this more like well-rounded community of
uh different
interests but they could all come
together to watch me play whatever game
that i wanted
and uh in new zealand you know being in
a small country
and at the time one of the very few
twitch streamers that was
at that level of success i got media
attention um
you know i was on a lot of articles i
was on some news channels
um and it was just it was just really
great that helped really elevate me and
the
um american saturated market
and uh yeah no it's just i'm so thrilled
that i've had such a successful twitch
career
and um but you know now i really just
want to
uh do that as a as a hobby and not rely
on it for money and
just get started with my gaming studio
that makes sense
now when you got media attention on the
news how did that feel like you were
like i'm famous now yeah
yeah it was uh it was crazy uh
it's kind of you know my first sort of
media attention was in the local
newspaper
my dad actually uh he yeah
he wrote it it was called the hawke's
bay today
and they he wrote in and then they
contacted me and did a piece on me
and you know from there then other wider
news outlets in the country were like
hey like we want to do a piece on this
girl and so that's sort of how it like
dominoed into
into what it uh became for me and uh
yeah now i i know a lot of journalists
you know
it's just yeah it's it's crazy to think
about
that's insane just just by playing games
you can become like this big
thing because five not even like i don't
know 23.
like seven years ago eight years ago i
was like there's no way people would be
paid to play games i just watched them
on youtube for fun but now it's like
literally there's community streamers
and all this
twitch community out here just people
just sharing their experience just
sharing games because not everybody can
play games
they don't have the money to buy it or
some people just want to watch people
play it's more comforting or the
streamer themselves
helps them get through tough times like
happened to you and actually if i would
like to get into at least how you
how your mindset was during that hard
times and how you got through it
right wow so i guess those hard times
like thinking back on it was very minor
i've been in some
uh worse times
since then but you know from each
bedtime i've been through you know video
games has always been there for me but
i've always been there for myself as
well
and through each time you sort of learn
about you know
how how best to get through it the next
time
uh in case you know something happens to
you
and um i guess that's yeah that's really
video games is just like on the side of
that
um really but you know for example
um the biggest one in the last few years
was um
i got married to another twitch streamer
in america
and we have a child together and so i
moved my life over there with a newborn
baby
and it didn't work out unfortunately so
i had to move all the way back to new
zealand
uh from from america that's tough i was
yeah an eight month old uh and then
and then we've been separated for almost
three years now so it's it's not too
recent but
that was really hard for me to go
through as a solo parent
and um you know at the time i was just a
twitch streamer um
grieving didn't really know what to do
and then i
you know really just catapult myself
into game development
and three years on i'm here with my own
indie studio and i'm just like i'm just
so proud of myself
thank you yeah it's not easy doing what
you did but
you he did it and that's all that
matters
yeah i also want to hear a story about
your name the the twitch
name you made it's laurie yeah how did
that
hello so my first name's lorien
and my family name is
lollipop lolly lol pup like there's
different variations of it so i thought
you know how can i combine lollipop
and my name so i came up with lorry pop
or lori pops i guess yeah oh i love it
now for anybody who wanted to do like
twitch streaming
like whether it's for just games or even
game development what
advice would you give them um
i would say that twitch streaming is
actually a great segue to break into the
game development industry uh it really
is you know i don't think i could have
got to where i am without all the
networking and all the contacts and all
the the friends that i've made in the
industry you know
including video game studios and playing
video games uh for them and
and whatnot so it really is a great
segue but to get into twitch i would say
um just you know be yourself or offer
the most unique
aspect of yourself um or if you're
someone that likes to put on a persona
that's fine but like really stick to
that
and be consistent in the video game that
you play i would say start off with one
so your community has one core interest
to
to come together and bond over and then
from there if you want to do variety
then
slowly branch out into variety also you
know networking i will say that again
networking is
so important and it is so valuable
especially if it's genuine networking
not just you know
trying to trying to get a leg up in the
business you know making continuing
um but those are probably the core core
aspects
um of how i would say breaking into
twitch
um game development wise you know
there's a lot of community
and manager positions available in game
dev now and a lot of people
from the twitch scene are actually
stepping over into these roles
um so i would recommend that as well you
know just getting amongst that working
with these studios and
you know they most likely already know
who you are as well if you're a
successful streamer and so you've got
that sort of bonded respect there
already
um yeah i know it's um
my story is quite unique you know
there's not many twitch streamers that
have
gone this far into game development uh
or have been as
aspirational as i have so i don't really
have too many people to like
converse with about it but i do have a
few friends in community management so i
chat to them a lot
yeah you're unique and that's good
because it allows more people to follow
in your footsteps
yeah i do hope you know through it's
something i am with my twitch and my
online communities is i'm very
transparent about you know the
issues i face my adversities you know of
being a solo parent
and a woman in the industry as well i'm
very open about that stuff
and uh you know i really care about
those uh human
to human sort of genuine interactions uh
where you can
you know inspire other people you they
could be like hey
this person's going through this i don't
feel as alone you know i'm all about
that sort of thing so
yeah this just felt like a natural step
for me to take
making a studio that's inclusive diverse
and
focused on accessibility
now the studio how did this come about
so uh when i was sort of stagnant you
know it was during a covert lockdown
when redundancies were made at the
company and i sort of thought you know
where are my next steps
and once i decided you know what i want
to i want to
make an indie studio you know something
small something a bit humble
um and so i was like okay well what what
can i name this company that is
a representative representative of
being inclusive um and so i thought him
and i just sort of brainstormed for a
while and i was like
well everyone likes pie and then
you know people people like food they
like pie so i was like huh
and then i tried to like uh search
different words for
uh different colors you know and
chromatic um
is one of those words that encompasses
um
different uh color spectrums and and
whatnot um so i was like okay well
chromatic pie rolls off the tongue yes
and so i had a vision in my head for the
logo at that point and i was like huh i
want to you know give this to somebody
to create
pixel art her name is cast pixel on
twitter at car's pixel
and i reached out to her and she's um
lgbtq
plus as well and so i just felt like
this perfect fit and what she came up
with was just like the spinning image of
what i had in my head and it just
it just really clicked and so it just
yeah it had to be
all encompassing of the the company's
vision
so that vision you had is exactly what
you have nowadays with the uh
red yellow green blue purple pie we're
all slices from the same place
yeah yeah that's exactly it
thank you no problem and then i saw you
also uh
made a real version of it that is
incredible
so what type of pie is it is it
is made from it's made from sago and
custard
so if you don't know what sega is uh
it's i guess it's
you know everyone knows what rice but
you know what rice pudding is yeah
yeah so it's kind of got the same
texture as rice pudding
except it's sago and it's um it's a
similar texture to rice you know it's
sort of
uh it's sort of firm but sort of soft at
the same time and so and it's flavorless
so
yeah say go and custard i wanted to make
sure it was like bulky like the picture
and uh yeah no it just sort of came to
life it was
you know i thought it would be a neat
launching thing you know to have it on
the website at launch
yeah that's awesome i was like no way
you made the pie come to life
now how long did it take you to make the
pie come to light like did you spend
time like studying recipes
or did you already like do you bake a
lot so did you really know how to like
make a pie
i i don't do a lot of baking um but
you know i was thinking back to the time
i made my very first pumpkin pie
you know because uh america yes
so i was like you know what if i can
make pumpkin pie for the first time i
think i can experiment with this so
i think for me you know i the blog
is actually on the website creditpie.com
i actually have listed you know how the
steps and
what i did to make the pie and my my
three-year-old son helped me which was
incredible
um but yeah i know i was just
experimenting it took a two to
a few different tries with a friend as
well to get it right
and uh yeah i finally just just landed
on
a decent one but
yeah it was it was fun yeah and then how
did you get the colors to be
perfect like that because i would
imagine i had to mix them in different
walls yeah i had to like
segregate their colors into different
bowls and add in
the right amount of food coloring and
and then just carefully like
make them into like this circle i have
an eye for detail so
this really helped me in this regard
oh i see you made one version it just
didn't look like the way you wanted to
work out yeah yeah
wow that's that's unique
that's amazing i want to try some now so
like you're saying this soon they're
going to have over like
you can buy some or just just to make
the recipe for all the recipes that was
just like a
novelty thing you know something fun to
put out there that would make people
uh interested yeah wow
so then you started the the chromatic
pie
in october of last year right yes yes
so what was the process like leading up
to that moment
like the technical stuff so you came up
with your idea
what did you do next um
so i i didn't launch the studio
without having a game in mind so what i
did was
really just try to detail as much as i
can about a video game idea
and really just go through and make sure
that
it's something that i'm happy with
before i can hand it off to
uh developers to to bring it to life so
so that is something i worked on there
writing some documentation but also you
know the business side of things like
incorporating the company uh getting
those bank accounts up and running
um you know my my accountant that does
all my lorry pops
uh content creation stuff he's doing my
chromatic pie stuff and he's just
absolutely amazing so
you know i made sure that i i set all
these important things up you know but
pretty base level uh business stuff
and so i did that and yeah
i guess you know just making sure the
website was up and running i tried to
make the website uh
as accessible as possible i tried to
make it um easy to read
easy to to navigate and i was actually
really surprised because you know i
didn't have any help with the website's
design i just went on squarespace and
picked a layout and then adjusted it
from there
but when i went onto this accessibility
tool website you actually enter in your
website and it tells you how
accessible it is and where you need to
improve so i actually got i think a 97
percent rating
um and yeah so i was like wow like i
actually
you know my um my intuition really
paid off there i you know i did it all
quite well
um so i was really proud of that you
know and just yeah making sure i had all
these things done like the the fun thing
like the pie
um and i've got some hats as well
some keratic pie caps and bucket hats
too
so i was just yeah organizing quite a
few things behind the scene to
make the launch as as impressionable as
possible
oh i see you get the cp bucket head and
the cp brush cotton cap
for the two different hats that's so
cool that's awesome
i need to get myself one there
so i see you also so the game you work
on is a unity 2d platform game
yes details
are just keeping it all secret yeah it's
a secret for now
uh so yeah it is a 2d pixel platformer
on unity
um it is
yeah i don't really know how much i can
say about it without
without giving it away i would say that
it isn't
like any other platformer um
that you know of or that you've played a
specifically designed a core element and
actually two core elements of the game
this is what you want but you know when
you're
in the game design you want it to uh be
different from
other games and to some degree so i've
got two core elements that'll really
make people
think you know wow this is interesting
well that's really
that's really fun while this works out
really good you know so that was really
important to me to make the game
um stand out from the crowd and have a
chance of of being
more successful than it would if it was
just another
2d platformer yeah and then for the
development team is it how many people
is it or
yeah is
would you be surprised it's just me
right now
so i've done everything right now
however um
i have been in talks with uh two
investors that are really interested in
coming on board
that is another thing you know indeed
and these studios really struggle with
finding
funding um and finding
you know just that support that you
really need so i've been lucky with my
with my social media presence and status
and a lot of people
know about being new zealand and
overseas as well
and you know an investor one of the
first investors that found me
found me on twitch and he just tuned in
to
watch my uh the last of us part two
uh gameplay and what i thought of the
game and i just happened to be talking
about chromatic pie at the time
and then he reached out to me on
linkedin and then we started talking
and you know those sort of things are
like crazy you know like what if he
tuned in at a different time i would
have missed that opportunity
uh completely you know that's like
yeah yeah it definitely is so so that
was sort of how that came about
and i knew that my business
uh was unique from all others you know
from conception what it's all about the
logo the name and everything
i knew that i could grab attention from
current you know
future investors that way um also with
my status in the country and
globally in the industry and so another
investor uh which i i won't name any of
them
but the second investor that's
interested is from america and i've
known
them for a very long time and
you know they're entrepreneurs and you
just never know
where your contacts are gonna like link
into each other
or anything like that but i've actually
enrolled myself into an incubation
program
a business incubation program that goes
for uh
three months to 12 months so i'm really
just trying to do all these things
myself
to make sure that um i have enough money
to hire people
when the time comes that i can be a good
boss
that i can really lift up the company
and ensure its success
and so yeah i really needed to do all
this
ground level work first before i could
get anybody else on board with me
oh yeah that's key because you need to
make sure you're all set and prepared to
launch your business to success and
that's another thing
for any all the students listening that
like you must
focus on the small things you don't
think it's important but it becomes
important like
lawyers um having like legal stuff
taking care of the bank accounts
the logo on the website all other stuff
is like cool and nice but there's a lot
of like different things too that's
really important and then you know
you're killing it so
congratulations yeah i do want to say
that um you know
game developers uh you know they can
make
amazing games but they don't always make
great business people
or great managers or great studio owners
so that's one thing i really want to
emphasize is you really need to educate
yourself on how to run a business
um doesn't matter how talented you are
at
making a game you really need to get the
business side so for me
business side comes more naturally to me
and
game development is more secondary so
yeah i would say that nice and so for
with the little bit that you are doing
are you like doing the game design part
of it
planning out blah blah blah making
prototypes drawing stuff
or you just come up at the end and
eventually going to get everyone else to
like build your vision
i've written some because i was a
producer for the
design department you know as i said
like i hold on to things and i'm like a
sponge so
um i saw you know the documentation um
the you know the prototypes that they
had made you know
just everything um i really took it on
board and so i'm doing
uh what i can outside of the unity
engine at the moment
so once i hire people they will be
actually creating the prototype
for me on a contract um and then we'll
go and secure more funding if we haven't
already
and then i'll officially employ them if
they want to stay on board
and then hire like a wider team so
that's sort of my game plan at the
moment but as far as the game design
goes
uh you know i've designed the the sort
of
vision for the intro of the game the
cutscenes
uh the first uh narration of the game
and you know who you interact with as a
player first and i've i've sort of laid
out their vision so it's easy to sort of
uh pivot off
when it does come to putting it um into
a prototype
wow that's incredible and for anybody
who doesn't really understand
like the process that it takes how long
has have you been like designing this
game and it's been in your mind and
and then how do you well first answer
that and we'll get to
a little bit more into it okay so as of
this year
i've gone full time into working on the
business
last year was more sort of part-time
um you know because last year was quite
tough for everybody and i was still
streaming and whatnot so
um i would say from
oh i don't really know exactly when i
started designing my game
i had a game idea that had the same core
mechanics but the story was different
and i decided that i needed to iterate
on the story
it was actually going to be about uh
mental health
and so i thought you know what that's
actually
i want to do that sometime but i think
as a first title it's probably a bit too
much
um you know those shoes are really big
to fill and you have to do it right so i
sort of was like okay i'll bench that
for another game and then i decided to
make a different story revolving around
these core mechanics again
and then i was so much happier with this
design so
there has been a second iteration of the
game already
um that just you know this year i'm
hoping to
get the prototype done around about
mid-year
and i'm aiming to release the game 2023
possibly 2024 so just spend it at two or
three years of the game
um you know for chromatic pie i don't
see
the studio turning into a big um
realistic graphics uh big aaa
sort of sort of company i want to work
on
smaller games so the company can work on
different ips
at the same time and
yeah hopefully raking more money that
way than you know spending
five to six seven eight years on one
title
you know that's pretty tough it's pretty
tough on the team
and i i am so wowed by the companies
that that do that
but i've also seen the the struggles and
the many struggles
of you know going through that so for me
i want to have small teams working on
smaller games
um and yet run the company that way
that's smart we have a saying in this
podcast where it's like don't make wow
don't make the biggest thing possible
make small games
and then eventually you can make that
yeah
just down the line yeah yeah exactly
and so then when you're now designing
and thinking about this game do you have
like
as like a setup that you have to design
the game like do you have like a board
nodes flow charts yeah so
yep so i have a whiteboard which i laid
out
my sort of uh the steps to
the game's completion and then involved
in the earlier days like launching the
website
um completing the business plan uh you
know all these
little all this this little road map of
those sort of things
um so i'm a visual person and i need to
you know have that sort of
vision that's that's always there for me
to look at uh so i had that i've also
got a compendium
that's filled with you know my ideas
meeting notes from the meetings that i
have being a producer you know i've
i really learned a lot of skills with
taking down notes and referring to them
later
so i found that yeah compendium was very
helpful
um what else have i got i've got a book
it's actually just like a i don't know
if i have it here with me at the moment
but
it's just like a a 2b 2b
i think a red book and i just scribbled
in it all these game ideas you know on
every single page just like leaving my
brain just like
fight to the paper and um
nice and so like that really helped me
like just get all the creativity out and
then from there i put it into like a
more tidier format
um so i am someone that doesn't really
like to
write all my ideas digitally from the
get go i'm more of someone that likes
pencil and paper you know pen on paper
and then yeah go from there um
you know i mean the kids these days that
are growing up they're gonna be more
digital you know
put it all in there but for me you know
i it helps my creativity when i hold
like a pin in my hand
um and you know i've got a uh a
microsoft
uh laptop that microsoft kindly uh
gifted to me
for the use of chromatic pie which was
amazing
thank you again if you're listening but
so i use that
as a as a dedicated uh device for
chromatic pie and it's strong enough to
run
unity it comes off as a tablet as well
uh so i can draw on it and it's just
yeah
yeah you really need to surround
yourself with um these different
um pieces that allow you to incorporate
them separately
um and put them into a computer when
you're done
and do you have anything running on
unity yet like a little like
little moving flick blob
yeah so i i we i started learning about
unity
uh last year because the studio i worked
at worked inside unreal
so unity was something new for me but i
i knew that
working on a platformer in unity was was
quite beneficial
so i went through their sort of
tutorials and at the moment i'm still
um gaining a deeper understanding on how
to
uh how to work it there's a youtube
channel called bracky's
i don't know if you know that youtube
channel yeah so they've been super
helpful
and they made a video i think a few
months ago or something that they're
like they're gone they're like goodbye
i was like no i can use you
yeah but you know there's heaps on there
so i'm all about uh self
you know teaching yourself uh motivating
yourself
um actually another important aspect i
didn't tell you uh
with you know starting chromatic pies
i've actually been listening to a lot of
audio books
on uh entrepreneurship and on business
and on
um finally really who's your favorite or
what's your favorite book
so most of them are uh written by women
and they're read by women because i
really do want to
listen you know and feel related to
in that regard so i don't i i've got my
phone in here i'll have to
reference to my phone because my memory
is uh is not the best
it's all good so i've listened to
uh unapologetically ambitious by shelly
archambault
the entrepreneur roller coaster by
darren hardy that was written by
a male um culture wins by
william van der blumen so i've listened
to quite a few and also some on just
video games and making video games in
general and they're super helpful
you know they're just i think people
should really
turn to self-help i don't know is there
a stigma around like
self-help you know that it doesn't
actually work because
i feel like that it's true but for me
like i've actually absorbed everything
as much as i can and it's it's great
yeah you're like my life is awesome i
don't know
but it's working for me no i self-help
is interesting because it
it does work it essentially i think
self-help
is what they teach you is pretty much
that's it like
so if one person tells you well you know
how to do this it's not
you don't need to read 30 or 40 other
books because they're all going to
basically tell you the same thing in
their own way
so i think that's where the stigma comes
where it's just like you get in the
cycle you keep reading the same thing
over and over and you feel motivated but
it's like all right you got the message
now go make it happen go do your thing
whoever
told you doesn't matter but just go i
think that's where the signal comes from
and just disunderstand and the whole
gurus online there's a lot of people
online
who destroy the self-help image they
don't know what they're talking about or
are they just starting their careers and
it's like maybe
you shouldn't be the one telling me how
to get my life
like so that's where the stigma i think
comes from but i i think it works
perfectly fine
and then actually this is another good
book you should read it's called
undaunted by characters
i've been thinking about picking that
one up yeah you sure it's amazing
it's it's incredible she's an amazing
person actually i did the podcaster
yesterday
where we talked about yeah so again she
just has this
uh mentality of just like whatever is in
front of me that's okay
i will get through it this might not
work what can we do and that's one of my
favorite quotes
look it's like yeah you're right like
okay this obstacles in my way i can't do
this
but what can i do besides all that what
can we do to go around it to make it
happen because
why not let's just let's see what
happens you can try she says
the one thing that really is important
to her and what everybody should like
take from the podcast is just try
just try it just try that studio you
want to make just try to make that game
just try to do that
to get la's just try you'll never know
what could happen you might succeed if
you don't you learn
you do when you learn exactly so that's
what i take from self-help and it's
helped me too like i
i don't know what to tell people i know
i'm sorry
to work for you i mean i didn't spend
like ten thousand dollars on things so
that might be the thing too
i just buy the books and then listen to
the free stuff online and
so yep exactly yeah no it's um they've
been
extremely valuable and i think i will
always listen you know i've got the
monthly
um audible um
ship uh what do you call it um
subscription
so i'm always going to be reading
because of that
i love reading reading is so much fun
you learn so much
i feel like nobody reads anymore i don't
know if that's just me but i don't know
well for me i listen to the audiobook so
i can like do my dishes like i have to
multitask i don't want to like
i can't sit still for too long like i'm
always like moving my hand or my leg or
something so
i love listening to audio books because
i can like do something else at the same
time
so how do you like stay put when you
twitch streaming do you just like how
long do you twist before
um possibly i think nowadays between two
and four hours at a time
you know nothing too uh in my earlier
twitch streaming days
i would do a 24 hour stream about once a
week
yeah and it was not good for my health
no not
at all you know it's not healthy you
know it's not sustainable um
so again do i stream for shorter than
this
how'd you stay put when you're doing
twitch streams you just like in the flow
focus yeah you know i do i
i shift myself on my seat sometimes i
i get sore knees you know if i sit for
too long so i am
yeah so i have to like uh what i'm doing
right now is i've got my legs on one of
my computers underneath the desk
stretching out so yeah you know that's
just it's just me
um a lot of people are like that as some
can just like stay
still for hours on ends and i'm like how
do you do that
yeah it's hard i i have a little thing
for my feet to like raise me up so i can
stay
comfortable but it's tough i don't know
because i see this chair like most of my
day
so yeah
those standing deaths are pretty good
but i don't know if i
i'd probably like switch it up like five
times a day and be like
it's too comfortable to like as much as
it helps it's nice like
i don't know there's just something nice
about being like all right i'm in my
chair
i'm like it's like star trek i'm
enterprise i'm in control
i don't know yeah
that's funny but yeah so let's see
what that mentality you talk about being
to self-help do you feel like that's
something
people can learn to grow into or is that
something that's just like
it's like what's the inner talk that
goes through you that makes you be more
optimistic because i feel like you're
very optimistic go get a courageous
person so like
yes what goes through your mindset is it
like hey this is not gonna work out and
you're like no it is and then you go do
it like
but you're in a diary yeah you know i
thought i've got a lot of fight
in me um and i do like to exhaust my
options so i know
that they're exhausted you know if they
if they don't work out
so for example example when i moved to
usa you know i before i moved over there
with my son
i was like you know what i don't want to
leave my family
i don't want to feel alone you know all
these things and
i don't want to you know leave this
person
so i was just like you know what i just
need to go
because i might regret it later on if i
don't and so i went
and it didn't work out and it was
horrible but i don't regret it and i i
learnt so much
and it's sort of the same attitude that
i took with me
so i moved back to my mother's place
when i moved back from america
i did previously have my own apartment
but someone else
moved in unfortunately so i went back to
my mom's
and then i got my job in community
management and being a producer and i
actually moved
so i moved to where i am now called
wellington
and i have no family here it's just me
and my son and so i moved here not
knowing many people
um making friends at the studio i was at
and so you know i i am quite brave in
that regard and i've sort of
you know come up with this this attitude
and this
this way of life where you just need to
you need to do the thing
you know for me it's a matter of
securing a good life for my son and for
myself
and you know doing something i'm
passionate about and
there's nothing that could really get in
my way to to achieve that so it really
depends on like how badly you
you want something how badly you're
envisioning it
so self-help books when i first started
listening to them
that and uh their inner voice for me was
like
uh these people are strangers you know
they're telling you
what to do because you're not doing it
right you know
and so like that's it that's a natural
response to have but you do get past
that and then you become more like open
to
others perspectives experiences and it
makes you just a better like
all-around person and so that's really
why i
do enjoy listening to them yeah i think
everybody should at least like
surround themselves with something
self-help-ish whether it's motivational
videos or inspiration or audiobooks
because i also kind of like that quote
where who you surround yourself is who
you will be
so if like let's say you're in a bad
environment if you put on the headphones
and put on positive stuff you're gonna
feel better you're gonna
you're gonna feel like in in fact you
might even feel like those are your
friends so you'll be like i wanna
impress them i wanna be like them i
don't want to let them down
so you start to work on yourself start
to take care of yourself better start to
mentally think positive thoughts it's
it's crazy what your environment can do
you can put you in a negative place or a
positive place so try to move yourself
forward into a positive place exactly
so when you learn you're learning unity
right now what is the process like for
you learning unity are you
just like watching a video day you
spending like tons of hours
how do you effectively learn unity um
as of this year i haven't learned too
much i've been working on the studio
since uh the 11th of january so
i've already been full time for a little
bit this year but for me
um i started my process uh yeah just
downloading it going through the
tutorials unity is really great because
you've got these uh different tutorials
suited for
how you want to use unity you know what
kind of game do you want to make
and so they've got a platformer tutorial
that was really helpful to me so i've
gone through that a few
times and i do i'm a big person for
doing something more than once you know
if you really want to retain
um what you're learning you need to do
it more than once you
need to do it multiple times so i'm
doing that and also
you know the brekkies videos um i'm also
learning from other youtube people and
the game dev scene as well
um i really just yeah surround myself
with these different people different
mediums of
uh ways to learn you know things that i
i need i feel that i need to learn
um so i'm really just trying to support
myself in that manner but
you know unity is going to take some
time um i you know in my job role as a
studio director and owner i'm not going
to be inside unity a lot but i do feel
it's important to have you know
the a decent understanding of the engine
that you are
using um because if you don't then then
what are you doing yeah exactly right
you know
that's literally so i'm not going full
head but i am learning enough yeah
yeah there's no self-help thing
everywhere it's just like even if you're
not going to
i don't know how it was like leadership
it's like if you're going to be a leader
of somebody at least have an
understanding of what they're doing so
that way you can understand that
the progress they're at like if somebody
says hey i need to like do this thing
you're like
i understand it's going to take you
probably six hours instead of being like
why don't you have it done or like get
it's like no
you have an understanding so you can
better handle and lead your team
towards you know build a better culture
because of that so yeah
i agree yep exactly definitely
so if anybody wanted to volunteer for
let's say like to help you
out what what is the process like that
are you doing anything like that
or you're just keeping it closed until
you have all your investors
um yeah for me it's you know i've got
some friends that are interested in
coming on board i've got one that wants
to
possibly be on the board of directors
and he
is he loves video games plays them but
he's more of like you know the business
east side
type of thing so i've had support from
friends like that
also other friends in the industry that
are just you know an ear for me to
to talk to and to bounce ideas off and
it's it's really important to have that
sort of support system whether they're
going to be a co-founder or not you know
you need to talk to people
and and tell them what your plans are
and if necessary you know get them to
sign an nda
if you're telling secrets or something
oh yeah definitely be careful there
yeah so those are those are really
important um
but yeah for me at the moment is just
you know hopefully
uh getting into their incubation program
i'm doing the prerequisites right now
so i can um so what they what they are
they're called creative hq
and uh here in wellington and they're a
council funded
startup sort of supporting program and
so
if i get into there with my business
then they can
help me find more funding um and they'll
obviously like coach me on um making
sure my business is gonna succeed and
you know strategies and all that sort of
thing that can really help me so
yeah finding those avenues where you
know you're going to benefit from
um is extremely helpful and finding
funding is not easy so just just try and
try and stick at it yeah i like that
advice about the funding
now are you ever going to plan on doing
like a chromatic
pie discord or do you already have one i
i do have one but i haven't made it
public yet
uh i haven't finished all the channels
but yes i will be
uh launching a chromatic pie discord
there is also a
reddit page as well so make sure i've
got all the different social medias done
ready and again i yeah well kind of i
haven't
made the reddit public either i'm sort
of like okay once i make it public i'm
to have to spend time maintaining it
yeah true yeah
it's going to be yeah
[Laughter]
awesome okay and then so there's two
more things
one is what advice would you give
anybody short advice because we already
talked about mostly but for anybody just
saying hey i want to start my studio i
don't know where to go
what's like something short you would
tell them
um i would say you know um
the way i did it was you know is it
really what you want to do
you know you once you become an
entrepreneur you sort of have to
uh dedicate time and effort and money
even into you know
starting up the business that you want
to start up so
you can't just start it and then walk
away you know you have to be dedicated
and motivated to do it so
for me i had that uh from there you know
finding a name
for your business that stands out and
from the others you know that
encompasses
uh your vision which i found was like a
really neat amalgamation
uh to make uh you know you can name your
business
like for example like uh jbl you know
what does that mean i don't know what
that means um but you know like there's
you know juice box lovers
yeah yeah well like you know so there's
these names that can be catchy but they
have no meaning
so you know try and get a little bit
crafty with it um
which i found has really like benefited
me in chromatic pie because people it
can really relate uh
to what it is um and then you know just
yeah pushing forward and just being
motivated helping yourself
um don't be afraid to listen to other
people's opinions or perspectives you
know you need to bring those on board
i'm actually going to be conducting some
interviews next week
with accessibility and representation
so i'm interviewing people with uh um
who are partially blind who have various
disabilities and then also interviewing
people in their lgbtq
people of color and women and so
what i've done is i've it's called an
empathy interview
so you've got these cards that you lay
out and you name there
for example i've named five facts and
assumptions
that lay out the problems the solutions
the outcome
and the value of the product or what
you're trying to
to achieve and so i'll be with what i've
written down i'll be talking to these
people with accessibility
and and representation to really like
nail down
um if i have a really good idea on where
i want to go and how to make
the industry a a better place and how to
make games more accessible
so you know just exhaust all these
different avenues that could really like
launch yourself into being
successful wow that's a lot and that's
awesome
sorry yeah no no it's all good there is
a lie
and then lastly i like to do a little
challenge at the end because over the
game
courses have a challenge for the each
lecture so what would your challenge be
for all listeners listening could be
related to
being a studio it could be related to
producing really it's whatever you want
like would like it to be and you could
take
as much time you need to think of a
challenge
a challenge um oof i would say
oh can i mention audiobooks again
yeah you can yeah that's perfect go read
an audio book take
like you know aim for one audio book
a month you know to start off with aim
for that um
and the area that you want to learn from
um
you know i'll say that with like
anything you know whether it's a youtube
video
and watch you know maybe one youtube
video a week from
uh something you want to learn about um
honestly i'm just so like seated and
just doing it yourself you can do it you
know when
i was smaller or even when my when my
mum was my age you know
our parents they didn't have what we
have now you know they don't they didn't
have the internet with youtube and
all these different forums and advice
and you know everything we're so lucky
to grow up in this technological era so
definitely make the the most of it um
and learn
where you can um i would say
i don't know if i can name just just one
challenge because
it's all very like well-rounded um
so i i can't i'm sorry that's a little i
think that's all i'm going to say
it's all good that works picking on your
book you read it
and it's it's a challenge for you
listeners don't let anyone down
the books are good self-help's not evil
i promise
we read anything it could be game design
programming health
uh healthy books nutrition anything pick
a book
expand your mind grow i like it but yeah
so thank you for coming on this has been
so much fun
learning a lot love the chromatic pie i
love the pie i need to make that one day
i'm gonna
i love vegans i need that'd be so cute
yeah i'll tell you how to make it yeah
yes awesome yeah and then so usually at
the end we'll just
hand the mic to you when doing last
minute shout outs you know last minute
quotes whatever you feel
and thank you for coming on thank you
well yeah thank you so much for having
me it's been a pleasure you know i'm i'm
really honored that you reached out to
me
and uh i'm just so happy to be here and
for
everyone listening um i believe in you
just do the thing you know don't hold
yourself back you
you don't want to hold yourself back you
know be be a go-getter but be a smart
go-getter you know don't don't do it
overbought
um but you can reach me on uh at
loripops on twitter
you can reach me on um you can go to
quaranticpi.com
um there is a blog about me there and
with a little bit more background
information too
and of course on the studio and where we
want to go
and take care during this covered
pandemic
well that's it thanks for listening you
can find all courses at game device tv
or in a show notes at a discounted price
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