WEBVTT

00:00:01.533 --> 00:00:04.043
Meezan - Tadabbur-e Quran
(Understanding the Quran)

00:00:05.291 --> 00:00:08.971
Topic: Intentionality of words, Muhkam and
Mutashaabih. Lecture. 15 B. 26-04-2002

00:00:10.215 --> 00:00:12.795
Scholar. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

00:00:15.154 --> 00:00:18.984
[Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] Alhumdulillah
All Praise is due to Allah,

00:00:18.984 --> 00:00:22.454
Peace and Blessings be upon His
Trustworthy Prophet Muhammad.

00:00:22.454 --> 00:00:24.584
I seek refuge with Allah from the
accursed Satan.

00:00:24.584 --> 00:00:27.242
In the name of Allah, Most Beneficent
and Ever Merciful.

00:00:27.242 --> 00:00:29.032
Ladies and gentlemen,

00:00:29.922 --> 00:00:33.532
in the debate about muhkam (clear)
and mutashaabih (ambiguous),

00:00:33.532 --> 00:00:37.972
where did the issue originate, is
what we have just talked about.

00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:47.149
Now you can see from which angle our
researchers and scholars have studied it.

00:00:47.795 --> 00:00:50.875
But to be able to understand their
point of view,

00:00:50.875 --> 00:00:56.125
it is crucial for you to first understand
the difference between two things.

00:00:56.125 --> 00:00:58.535
I have used two words here, 'maani'
(meaning),

00:00:58.535 --> 00:01:00.843
and 'misdaaq' (referent or evidence).

00:01:01.601 --> 00:01:04.081
What is the difference between
these two?

00:01:06.102 --> 00:01:09.842
Let's go back to the past for sometime.

00:01:11.013 --> 00:01:14.413
And see how there used to be
ancient nomadic tribes,

00:01:14.413 --> 00:01:16.963
and they have set up camp at
a place.

00:01:16.963 --> 00:01:22.753
There they cook food, they dance
and play music,

00:01:22.753 --> 00:01:25.513
and they also come together and gather
in assemblies.

00:01:25.513 --> 00:01:28.703
Whatever happens, is done as
a collective.

00:01:29.312 --> 00:01:35.638
Individual has not become manifest and
autonomous in his own personality.

00:01:35.638 --> 00:01:40.638
So they felt that since human beings
have a stomach and hunger is natural,

00:01:40.638 --> 00:01:42.618
food must be prepared to
satisfy oneself.

00:01:44.062 --> 00:01:46.392
So when they brought meat
from hunting,

00:01:46.392 --> 00:01:48.802
they would have to cook it in order
to eat it.

00:01:48.802 --> 00:01:51.642
And in order to cook it, they
fashioned a pot.

00:01:51.642 --> 00:01:53.872
Imagine all this for a while.

00:01:53.872 --> 00:01:57.873
So now since it was a huge pot,

00:01:57.873 --> 00:02:02.483
it made it possible to cook the
meat for the whole tribe

00:02:02.483 --> 00:02:05.793
and then everyone would sit and
eat it together.

00:02:05.793 --> 00:02:08.883
They called it 'deg'.

00:02:10.664 --> 00:02:13.454
They named the huge cauldron or
pot as 'deg'.

00:02:13.454 --> 00:02:18.464
Human civilization continued its
journey, tribal life came to an end.

00:02:18.464 --> 00:02:21.414
Individuals became more autonomous
from the collective.

00:02:21.414 --> 00:02:25.533
Instead of huge cauldrons, smaller
pots were now required.

00:02:25.533 --> 00:02:28.353
Now that small pot was put on
the stove.

00:02:28.353 --> 00:02:30.683
Then they needed a name
for it.

00:02:30.683 --> 00:02:33.913
What human beings do at times like
these is that

00:02:33.913 --> 00:02:36.623
the name they had given to the
similar entity,

00:02:36.623 --> 00:02:40.868
they give a name to the new one which
shows that influence

00:02:40.868 --> 00:02:45.320
by clashing, opposing, contradicting,
or drawing similarities between them.

00:02:45.320 --> 00:02:48.460
Either they see it as distinct from
the other entity,

00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:54.430
or as separate from it, or he views
it in accordance to that thing.

00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:58.430
So when they saw the smaller pot,
they thought why give it a new name?

00:02:58.430 --> 00:03:01.500
This is simply a smaller 'deg'.

00:03:03.475 --> 00:03:06.785
And that's how it was called
'degcha' (small pot).

00:03:07.968 --> 00:03:13.068
So when we say the word 'degcha',
what is its meaning?

00:03:13.068 --> 00:03:15.398
It means a small deg (caludron).

00:03:17.231 --> 00:03:22.041
We were teaching and learning, and
when you were not familiar with Urdu,

00:03:22.041 --> 00:03:27.001
and you read the word 'degcha', you
were told it means a small cauldron.

00:03:27.001 --> 00:03:29.391
Did you imagine a 'degcha' in your
mind at all?

00:03:29.391 --> 00:03:31.071
No, you didn't visualize it.

00:03:31.071 --> 00:03:35.591
You think of 'deg', and you also
imagine something smaller.

00:03:35.591 --> 00:03:41.631
Now we take you home, and showed
you a small pot on the stove.

00:03:41.631 --> 00:03:45.631
This 'degcha' is actually a referent which
carries the meaning of small cauldron, deg

00:03:45.631 --> 00:03:48.851
but now it is lying right
in front of us.

00:03:48.851 --> 00:03:52.171
So there are numerous words in
a language,

00:03:52.171 --> 00:03:57.951
which do not make their referent
clear with regards to their meaning.

00:03:57.951 --> 00:04:04.001
Misdaaq is actually that utensil called
degcha, which is put on your stove.

00:04:04.001 --> 00:04:06.991
And for that, we did not have
a word initially.

00:04:06.991 --> 00:04:09.021
There was no separate word that
existed a priori.

00:04:09.021 --> 00:04:11.211
We only had the word 'deg'.

00:04:11.211 --> 00:04:16.031
We picked another concept of smaller
and bigger things from our mind,

00:04:16.031 --> 00:04:18.811
and affixed the term for 'smaller'
with 'deg'.

00:04:18.811 --> 00:04:23.661
In Persian 'cha' implies smaller.
So 'degcha' means a smaller 'deg'.

00:04:23.661 --> 00:04:28.481
So we took that, affixed it with deg,
and that created a meaning.

00:04:28.481 --> 00:04:34.471
A smaller pot. But whichever way you
may use this word degcha,

00:04:34.471 --> 00:04:37.761
even now you can see, if someone asks
you what is 'degcha'?

00:04:37.761 --> 00:04:41.201
You will reply with 'a small deg'. So you
will convey the meaning for sure.

00:04:41.201 --> 00:04:43.391
But it does not determine
that actual referent.

00:04:43.391 --> 00:04:46.191
Referent will be when you are
shown a degcha and you will know,

00:04:46.191 --> 00:04:47.801
this is what it is.

00:04:47.801 --> 00:04:50.931
Otherwise it is possible, you would
have thought a smaller deg to be

00:04:50.931 --> 00:04:53.311
something just marginally smaller
than a deg!

00:04:53.311 --> 00:04:57.051
You might not be able to imagine
that degcha which you use on the stove.

00:04:57.051 --> 00:05:00.131
So this is the difference between
meaning and referent.

00:05:00.131 --> 00:05:04.531
Imagine for a while that one of you
went to the planet Mars.

00:05:04.531 --> 00:05:08.341
And there he saw a living
creature.

00:05:08.341 --> 00:05:12.471
Such a creature he had never seen before,
either among the birds or the animals,

00:05:12.471 --> 00:05:15.611
and certainly not among
human beings.

00:05:15.611 --> 00:05:20.191
He wants to come back and tell
you that he saw a living being on Mars.

00:05:20.191 --> 00:05:22.781
What way would he adopt to
convey that?

00:05:22.781 --> 00:05:27.031
What that person will do is that whatever
he saw there,

00:05:27.031 --> 00:05:30.441
its referent he had seen with his
own eyes.

00:05:30.441 --> 00:05:34.131
But he has no word to convey
what he witnessed.

00:05:34.131 --> 00:05:36.941
Hence the question of a word and
its meaning does not arise.

00:05:36.941 --> 00:05:39.731
He is standing on Mars and he
saw a creature.

00:05:39.731 --> 00:05:42.041
But no word exists in our language
for that creature.

00:05:42.041 --> 00:05:44.825
The reason for that is that the words
are created

00:05:44.825 --> 00:05:48.341
when a thing comes into existence or
an idea comes into our mind.

00:05:48.341 --> 00:05:51.641
And after that human beings produce
some specific sounds to refer to it,

00:05:51.641 --> 00:05:53.951
after that a common consciousness
of the thing is born among them.

00:05:53.951 --> 00:05:56.141
And then after a few centuries,
the word is born.

00:05:56.141 --> 00:05:59.331
This is how it happens right? But this
process didn't happen in that case.

00:05:59.331 --> 00:06:05.441
He was simply picked up at night and
then dropped on Mars,

00:06:05.441 --> 00:06:08.701
where he saw a creature. When he
saw that being,

00:06:08.701 --> 00:06:14.191
it did not resemble any animal,
nor a bird.

00:06:14.191 --> 00:06:16.711
So there is nothing exactly like
that creature.

00:06:16.711 --> 00:06:20.351
He had seen birds here, he had seen
animals, he had seen human beings.

00:06:20.351 --> 00:06:23.831
But the creature was like none of them,
it was entirely a different being he saw.

00:06:23.831 --> 00:06:27.361
So the creature he saw there, there is
no word that exists for it.

00:06:27.361 --> 00:06:30.051
And since there is no word that exists,
hence no meaning exists either.

00:06:30.051 --> 00:06:32.831
But the evidence was certainly
before his eyes.

00:06:32.831 --> 00:06:34.581
So that entity is before his eyes.

00:06:34.581 --> 00:06:36.961
He came back from Mars onto
the Earth.

00:06:36.961 --> 00:06:40.961
After coming back here, he wants to
tell you what he saw.

00:06:40.961 --> 00:06:44.961
So what would he do? He would actually
find some entity

00:06:44.961 --> 00:06:47.691
similar to the one he saw in
order to convey its likeness.

00:06:47.691 --> 00:06:49.841
This is what he would do right?
And after that,

00:06:49.841 --> 00:06:51.941
when he would find a similar
referent for the entity,

00:06:51.941 --> 00:06:54.371
then the objects which are found
here on Earth,

00:06:54.371 --> 00:06:57.551
there are words as well as meanings
for them.

00:06:57.551 --> 00:07:01.901
So that word and meaning which are
available here for a similar entity,

00:07:01.901 --> 00:07:06.721
he would use them with some changes,
to refer to the creature he saw.

00:07:06.721 --> 00:07:10.331
That this is what I had seen.
He would say that right?

00:07:10.331 --> 00:07:12.341
So now the entity referred to is clear.

00:07:12.341 --> 00:07:15.411
Now you understand what is
the meaning and what is the referent?

00:07:15.411 --> 00:07:20.761
Misdaaq here are some creatures, such
as birds, animals, and human beings.

00:07:20.761 --> 00:07:23.161
For them, some words have
been created.

00:07:23.161 --> 00:07:27.051
For instance, 'humans', or 'lion'.
These words have meanings.

00:07:27.051 --> 00:07:28.681
And we are aware of those
meanings.

00:07:28.681 --> 00:07:31.351
On the other planet there is a referent,
a creature,

00:07:31.351 --> 00:07:33.681
for which neither word nor
meaning exists.

00:07:33.681 --> 00:07:38.471
So to a referent for what it is, and
then to interpret it by closest likeness,

00:07:38.471 --> 00:07:41.431
is something we have no option but
to do. Please understand this.

00:07:41.431 --> 00:07:44.681
What a meaning is, what a word is,
and what the referent is.

00:07:44.681 --> 00:07:48.741
If you have understood this, let us now
see what issues this gentleman faced.

00:07:48.741 --> 00:07:52.917
This is Imam Razi, he says 'wa ammal
muhaqqiq al munsif

00:07:52.917 --> 00:07:56.557
fainna hu yahmir ul amar fil ayaat
ala aqsaam salaasa.'

00:07:57.686 --> 00:08:02.766
That is, the person who is a scholar
and a researcher as well,

00:08:02.766 --> 00:08:05.766
and is not carrying any particular
biases with him,

00:08:05.766 --> 00:08:08.749
and is a person who stands
with justice.

00:08:08.749 --> 00:08:15.809
Imam Razi says that he divides the
verses of the Quran into three categories.

00:08:15.809 --> 00:08:19.479
So that scholar will divide the verses of
the Quran into three categories.

00:08:19.479 --> 00:08:23.479
'Ahduha maa yata'aqqadu zahiruha
bil dala'il al aqliya'.

00:08:23.533 --> 00:08:28.163
Now since according to him, verbal
evidence is worth nothing,

00:08:28.163 --> 00:08:32.383
therefore the first category of the
verses of the Quran is that

00:08:32.383 --> 00:08:38.600
whose apparent meaning, i.e. the obvious
meaning which comes from the word,

00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:42.600
that becomes confirmed even through
a logical argument.

00:08:44.126 --> 00:08:48.708
So a rational argument, and whatever
meaning you understand from the word,

00:08:48.708 --> 00:08:51.478
even though they had come through
isolated report and conjectural.

00:08:51.478 --> 00:08:53.738
But now even a rational argument is
there in its support.

00:08:53.738 --> 00:08:57.118
So that rational argument, along with
that conjectural meaning,

00:08:57.118 --> 00:09:00.348
what has been done to it? It has
made it categorical and clear.

00:09:01.206 --> 00:09:03.246
The word itself not going to do
anything.

00:09:03.246 --> 00:09:06.606
At most, it would have given testimony
of its meaning by speculation.

00:09:06.606 --> 00:09:10.606
So he says 'maa yata'aqqadu zahiruha
bil dala'il al aqliya'.

00:09:10.606 --> 00:09:14.366
So the apparent meaning that the words
were conveying,

00:09:14.366 --> 00:09:17.946
and the moment you read the words,
you understood some meaning from it.

00:09:17.946 --> 00:09:21.946
Along with that meaning, some rational
arguments also stand now.

00:09:21.946 --> 00:09:24.626
And what did the both of them
do together?

00:09:24.626 --> 00:09:26.806
They gave it a clear certainty.

00:09:26.806 --> 00:09:30.806
Now this issue, 'fazaakahu al
muhkamu haqqa'.

00:09:30.806 --> 00:09:34.806
So this is then the 'real'
muhkam.

00:09:34.806 --> 00:09:39.337
That verse, whose apparent meaning
conveyed by the words is understood

00:09:39.337 --> 00:09:41.337
as 'wa awal wahla', that is,
immediately upon reading it.

00:09:41.337 --> 00:09:43.977
If you are familiar with the
language, you read the verse,

00:09:43.977 --> 00:09:46.747
and from that you understood the
apparent subject matter.

00:09:46.747 --> 00:09:49.397
You joined that subject matter with
a rational argument,

00:09:49.397 --> 00:09:52.917
so it is as if it were equivalent. That is,
the rational deduction says the same thing

00:09:52.917 --> 00:09:54.447
which is being conveyed by
the words at first glance.

00:09:54.447 --> 00:09:57.107
And the apparent meaning of the words is
the same as conveyed by logical reasoning.

00:09:57.107 --> 00:10:00.107
So when both of these things become
mutually inclusive, what is this then?

00:10:00.107 --> 00:10:05.304
'Fazaakahu al muhkumu haqqa'.
So this becomes the real muhkam verse.

00:10:05.304 --> 00:10:09.883
'Wasaani ha allazee kaamit at-dala'il ul
qaate ala imtanaayi zawahir riha.'

00:10:09.883 --> 00:10:13.313
Now another category is born.
Which was that

00:10:13.313 --> 00:10:17.313
you derived an apparent meaning
from the words.

00:10:17.313 --> 00:10:19.303
It is this same action which was
done in the first category.

00:10:19.303 --> 00:10:22.363
You understood an apparent meaning
from the words.

00:10:23.449 --> 00:10:26.469
There is no difference in this first step.
What had happened in previous instance?

00:10:26.469 --> 00:10:28.959
You had understood an apparent meaning
from words.

00:10:28.959 --> 00:10:31.211
Rational arguments ratified that
deduction.

00:10:31.211 --> 00:10:32.911
Here too, the same thing happened.

00:10:32.911 --> 00:10:35.051
You understood an apparent meaning
from the words.

00:10:35.051 --> 00:10:38.481
But then rational arguments stood
against your deduction here.

00:10:38.481 --> 00:10:43.301
So the rational arguments negated the
apparent meanings you were understanding.

00:10:45.102 --> 00:10:48.252
'Allazee kamit at-dala'il ul qaate'ala
imtanaayi zawahir riha.'

00:10:48.252 --> 00:10:50.432
And these rational arguments are
absolutely categorical.

00:10:50.432 --> 00:10:53.182
So this is absolutely clear that
these apparent meanings

00:10:53.182 --> 00:10:54.982
cannot be the correct deduction
from these words.

00:10:54.982 --> 00:10:58.112
He says 'fazzakahu allathii yuhukumu
fiihi bi anna muraadillah ta'ala

00:10:58.112 --> 00:11:03.562
ghairu zahirahi'. This aspect
which is there,

00:11:03.562 --> 00:11:07.082
about this too we can say with
complete certainty that

00:11:07.082 --> 00:11:09.952
the apparent meanings which are
drawn from these words here

00:11:09.952 --> 00:11:12.322
is absolutely not what Allah
intended to convey.

00:11:12.322 --> 00:11:15.222
So this too has become clear.

00:11:15.222 --> 00:11:17.512
The apparent meanings which one
was deriving from the words,

00:11:17.512 --> 00:11:19.622
since the rational arguments are
standing against it,

00:11:19.622 --> 00:11:22.872
therefore, this too has become
muhkam.

00:11:22.872 --> 00:11:26.872
Because the negation of its apparent
meaning has become certain,

00:11:26.872 --> 00:11:28.642
based on rational arguments.

00:11:28.642 --> 00:11:32.422
'Wa saalisuha allazee laa yujid
mislu haazid dala'il alaa tarfa

00:11:32.422 --> 00:11:33.912
sabuutihi min tafa'ihi'.

00:11:33.912 --> 00:11:38.782
And the third category is when
no rational arguments exists

00:11:38.782 --> 00:11:42.782
either to ratify the apparent meanings,
or to refute them.

00:11:42.928 --> 00:11:47.868
So neither do the logical arguments
confirm those meaning, nor reject them.

00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:53.070
'fayakoon min haqqahii tawaqqafi'.
What would you do in this case?

00:11:53.070 --> 00:11:54.770
Now he says that you just have
to make peace with it,

00:11:54.770 --> 00:11:56.830
because it is not possible to say
anything with certainty about this.

00:11:56.830 --> 00:11:58.660
There is no other option but
to be patient about it.

00:11:58.660 --> 00:12:01.160
'Wa yakoona zalika mutashaabihan.'

00:12:02.183 --> 00:12:06.313
Now we would say that this has
become mutashaabih.

00:12:06.313 --> 00:12:10.883
Actually he has to make clear how
do we determine something is mutashaabih.

00:12:10.883 --> 00:12:12.963
So see what way he adopted
to do that.

00:12:12.963 --> 00:12:16.673
The way he chose was that if we
read a verse,

00:12:16.673 --> 00:12:19.503
an outward and apparent meaning of
it was understood by us.

00:12:19.503 --> 00:12:21.513
We went to seek rational evidence
for it,

00:12:21.513 --> 00:12:24.345
which absolutely confirmed the meaning
we had understood.

00:12:24.345 --> 00:12:26.495
This becomes muhkam then.

00:12:26.495 --> 00:12:31.665
Then we read a verse, whose apparent
meaning was understood by us.

00:12:31.665 --> 00:12:33.915
Rational arguments completely rejected
that inference,

00:12:33.915 --> 00:12:36.395
making it clear that what we understood
cannot be the meaning of the words.

00:12:36.395 --> 00:12:38.495
In fact the meaning would be the
opposite of what we inferred.

00:12:38.495 --> 00:12:40.005
So our understanding was incorrect,
and the correct was its opposite.

00:12:40.005 --> 00:12:42.522
So this too is muhkam, for it
has become clear.

00:12:42.522 --> 00:12:46.412
Now if we read a verse, and understand a
meaning that was apparent from the words.

00:12:46.412 --> 00:12:49.852
But the rational arguments do not prove
or determine it,

00:12:49.852 --> 00:12:52.842
nor do they reject our inference.
Neither of these things can be done.

00:12:52.842 --> 00:12:55.552
So what would we do? We would give up
and state that

00:12:55.552 --> 00:12:58.342
no statement can be made with certainty
about its meaning.

00:12:58.342 --> 00:13:00.702
So he says 'yakoona zalika
mutashaabihan.'

00:13:00.702 --> 00:13:02.092
In what sense is this used?

00:13:02.092 --> 00:13:04.472
'Bemaana annal amara ishtaba'a
fii'.

00:13:04.472 --> 00:13:07.446
The case here has become doubtful
and ambiguous.

00:13:07.446 --> 00:13:10.526
As I had said before, in what
sense is he using this term?

00:13:10.526 --> 00:13:12.046
So the case here has become
doubtful.

00:13:12.046 --> 00:13:14.678
'Walam yatamayii' zahdul janabain
ilaakhir'.

00:13:14.678 --> 00:13:16.968
Now there are actually two
paths in this.

00:13:16.968 --> 00:13:19.738
One is the apparent one, and the
second is the one contrary to it.

00:13:19.738 --> 00:13:22.498
In this, it became impossible to
distinguish either of them.

00:13:22.498 --> 00:13:26.118
So when it is no longer possible to make
a distinction between the two paths,

00:13:26.118 --> 00:13:30.066
that makes the words mutashaabih.
This is the statement by Imam Razi.

00:13:30.066 --> 00:13:34.066
Now naturally, since he is a rationalist
scholar, thus he has conveyed it

00:13:34.066 --> 00:13:36.526
on the basis of a logical
deduction.

00:13:36.526 --> 00:13:39.296
Saying that whichever verses of the Quran
you will be reading,

00:13:39.296 --> 00:13:41.056
you must remember that
first point,

00:13:41.056 --> 00:13:43.056
about which we have already
discussed before this.

00:13:43.056 --> 00:13:46.666
That the words of the Quran cannot
convey their own meanings

00:13:46.666 --> 00:13:48.746
with absolutely certainty.

00:13:48.746 --> 00:13:53.016
Therefore we only understand the
apparent meanings of its words.

00:13:53.016 --> 00:13:55.546
If the rational evidence supports it,
the meaning becomes muhkam.

00:13:55.546 --> 00:13:57.956
If the rational arguments negate
that meaning,

00:13:57.956 --> 00:14:00.454
if it is pointing to something contrary
to its outward meaning,

00:14:00.454 --> 00:14:03.016
then again it is muhkam.
[Student] But then what is muhkam here,

00:14:03.016 --> 00:14:05.296
if the meaning has been negated?
[Ghamidi] That which has been negated,

00:14:05.296 --> 00:14:06.986
that meaning becomes muhkam
or clear.

00:14:06.986 --> 00:14:12.376
For instance, you say that lion is
the king of the jungle.

00:14:12.376 --> 00:14:15.697
Rational argument also says that yes,
this refers to that very lion

00:14:15.697 --> 00:14:18.647
which is found in the forest. Now
this has become muhkam.

00:14:18.647 --> 00:14:21.707
You say, 'who is the lion that approaches
and makes the battleground shudder?'

00:14:21.707 --> 00:14:25.707
Rational inference comes and says no,
this is not the lion of the forest.

00:14:26.587 --> 00:14:28.887
So the metaphor has become
clear, hasn't it?

00:14:28.887 --> 00:14:31.367
Since the literal meaning was rejected,
it makes the other aspect certain.

00:14:31.367 --> 00:14:33.207
This is a simple example I have
used to explain this to you.

00:14:33.207 --> 00:14:37.007
The example Imam Razi wants to give, that
would be a little too complex for you.

00:14:37.007 --> 00:14:39.337
There is an entire debate about takleef-e
ma laa yutaq (unbearable trouble)

00:14:39.337 --> 00:14:40.437
that he has done.

00:14:40.437 --> 00:14:42.347
[Student] Has any reference been taken
from the Quran?

00:14:42.347 --> 00:14:44.637
[Ghamidi] For instance, he borrows a
reference from the Quran,

00:14:44.637 --> 00:14:46.117
now that you have brought it up,

00:14:46.117 --> 00:14:49.037
he says that the Quran says 'ya
yukkalifulla nafsan illa wus'aha.'

00:14:49.037 --> 00:14:50.867
This is his own argumentation.

00:14:50.867 --> 00:14:54.337
That Allah never burdens anyone more
than he can bear.

00:14:54.337 --> 00:14:56.087
Outwardly, this is what the meaning
seems to be.

00:14:56.087 --> 00:14:57.547
This is what the verse is saying.

00:14:57.547 --> 00:15:01.187
But Imam Razi says that rational arguments
are testifying to something contrary.

00:15:01.187 --> 00:15:03.827
Rational evidence is refuting
this apparent meaning.

00:15:03.827 --> 00:15:05.957
The evidence of the Quran itself
are pointing to something contrary.

00:15:05.957 --> 00:15:07.467
Categorical arguments are also
standing against this.

00:15:07.467 --> 00:15:10.487
Allah does burden people more than
they can bear (takleef-e ma laa yutaq).

00:15:10.487 --> 00:15:13.447
Allah did say that Abu Lahab would not
become a believer,

00:15:13.447 --> 00:15:15.683
and yet commanded him to
become one!

00:15:15.683 --> 00:15:17.493
I am giving you an example.

00:15:17.493 --> 00:15:18.923
So Allah does burden people.

00:15:18.923 --> 00:15:21.618
Allah made people stand and stiffened
their backs,

00:15:21.618 --> 00:15:23.778
and then commanded them to bow!

00:15:23.778 --> 00:15:25.748
This is mentioned about the Day
of Judgment right?

00:15:25.748 --> 00:15:27.408
So Allah does give people
unbearable burderns.

00:15:27.408 --> 00:15:30.428
When it is proven that he does do
that, it means that the meaning of

00:15:30.428 --> 00:15:32.788
'la yakullifa nafsan illa
wus'aha',

00:15:32.788 --> 00:15:34.778
which appears apparent
and outwardly,

00:15:34.778 --> 00:15:37.408
the intention is to convey the exact
opposite meaning.

00:15:37.408 --> 00:15:40.429
This is certain, so it becomes
muhkam.

00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:45.389
So this is his way. Then he says that
where either of these situations has come,

00:15:45.389 --> 00:15:49.699
that either the apparent meaning which
the words are conveying,

00:15:49.699 --> 00:15:53.469
rational arguments are also confirming
it, then the case is closed, it is muhkam.

00:15:53.469 --> 00:15:55.839
But if the rational evidence has
negated the meaning inferred,

00:15:55.839 --> 00:15:58.289
meaning that he is saying no
doubt remains here,

00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:00.609
and it is certain that Allah in fact does
give takleef-e ma laa yutaq,

00:16:00.609 --> 00:16:02.769
then the meaning conveyed outwardly
by the words are incorrect,

00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:06.049
the intention is actually to convey the
exact opposite of it, we are certain of it

00:16:06.049 --> 00:16:08.939
When we are sure of that, and Imam Razi
of course was certain of it.

00:16:08.939 --> 00:16:10.889
I don't know if you are convinced of
it or not though.

00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:12.909
But when one is convinced and sure,
then the case has come to a close.

00:16:12.909 --> 00:16:17.131
So this too is muhkam then.
But if both of these cases in not certain,

00:16:17.131 --> 00:16:20.611
and one is not able to clarify if the
rational evidence is affirming

00:16:20.611 --> 00:16:23.231
or rejecting it, then it falls under
mutashaabih.

00:16:23.231 --> 00:16:26.930
Because now the situation is doubtful
and unclear, we don't know its meaning.

00:16:26.930 --> 00:16:30.690
So the Quran is correct in saying that
if a situation of this kind arises,

00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:34.770
according to Imam Razi, then that
word becomes doubtful,

00:16:34.770 --> 00:16:36.370
whose meaning we cannot
establish.

00:16:36.370 --> 00:16:40.170
This attempt he has made to clarify
this, is to be able to tell you

00:16:40.170 --> 00:16:43.260
where to draw the line between muhkam
and mutashaabih.

00:16:44.512 --> 00:16:47.232
So this is how he has drawn
a distinguishing line.

00:16:47.232 --> 00:16:48.672
The line has been drawn.

00:16:54.743 --> 00:16:57.353
[Ghamidi] No I am only telling you
about his stance.

00:16:57.353 --> 00:17:00.133
I am not passing a judgment on
whether his position is right or not.

00:17:00.133 --> 00:17:03.883
I am simply telling you that this is
his opinion which he states about it.

00:17:03.883 --> 00:17:07.793
These are the issues he is facing,
and this is his opinion regarding it.

00:17:07.793 --> 00:17:10.473
I am not saying whether his position
is correct or not.

00:17:10.473 --> 00:17:13.793
Nor is it our concern right now.
Our purpose is only to understand

00:17:13.793 --> 00:17:16.043
what he means by the category
of 'mutashaabih'.

00:17:16.043 --> 00:17:17.873
That is what I have tried to
explain to you,

00:17:17.873 --> 00:17:19.833
what exactly is meant by
mutashaabih?

00:17:19.833 --> 00:17:25.163
Now see that it is not as if this is
where the situation ends with Imam Razi.

00:17:30.639 --> 00:17:31.649
[Ghamidi] Yes?

00:17:32.379 --> 00:17:33.989
[Ghamidi] With rational evidence.

00:17:33.989 --> 00:17:37.029
He says that with rational evidence it
is absolutely clear for us that

00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:41.331
this is not what this means. But
in fact it means the exact opposite.

00:17:41.331 --> 00:17:43.901
So now we have to accept it.
[Student] So it means the opposite.

00:17:43.901 --> 00:17:46.591
[Ghamidi] Yes we have to take the
opposite of the meaning it conveys.

00:17:47.511 --> 00:17:48.291
Yes?

00:17:51.601 --> 00:17:54.101
No that is not what rational
evidence means.

00:17:54.101 --> 00:17:58.011
Rational evidence means that he will
deduce from a lot of other sources as well

00:17:58.011 --> 00:18:00.541
and then they will also do a
logical deduction in that matter,

00:18:00.541 --> 00:18:04.471
that God is omnipotent, and Allah does
not accept any constraints about Himself.

00:18:04.471 --> 00:18:06.581
It is problematic to assume that.

00:18:06.581 --> 00:18:09.851
Hence when He burdens people, and
since He is capable of everything,

00:18:09.851 --> 00:18:12.651
therefore He can give unbearable
burdens to people too.

00:18:12.651 --> 00:18:15.441
So you would not have the last word
even in rational arguments.

00:18:15.441 --> 00:18:19.441
[Student] So this is what one can
be negated, his opinion can be refuted.

00:18:19.441 --> 00:18:22.971
[Ghamidi] Yes of course.
[Student] What is the criterion for this?

00:18:22.971 --> 00:18:25.231
[Ghamidi] This is something you would
have to debate with Imam Razi himself.

00:18:25.231 --> 00:18:28.261
I have only told you about what he
says about this matter.

00:18:28.261 --> 00:18:32.261
If I delve into it further to talk about
whether his opinion is correct or not,

00:18:32.261 --> 00:18:35.211
then I would actually be deviating from
our topic.

00:18:35.211 --> 00:18:38.501
See the thing is, Zamakhshari
for instance says exactly the same thing.

00:18:38.501 --> 00:18:41.732
He says, 'muhkamaat uhkimat ibaaratuha
bi an hufizat min al ehtimaal

00:18:41.732 --> 00:18:46.162
wal ishtibaah'. That is, what are the
muhkam verses?

00:18:46.162 --> 00:18:50.342
Those are the verses whose interpretation
has been safeguarded in a way

00:18:50.342 --> 00:18:53.092
'bi an hufizat min al ehtimaal
wal ishtibaah.'

00:18:53.092 --> 00:18:55.992
That is, now neither any doubt
nor ambiguity remains.

00:18:55.992 --> 00:18:58.202
So the opposite of ambiguity.

00:18:58.202 --> 00:19:00.512
The text is no longer ambiguous.

00:19:00.512 --> 00:19:03.512
The subject matter is no longer
doubtful, it has become muhkam.

00:19:03.512 --> 00:19:08.082
Mutashaabihaat? Zamakhshari says
these are ones which are ambiguous.

00:19:08.082 --> 00:19:11.992
This is how he translates it, that it is 
doubtful, carrying multiple possibilities.

00:19:11.992 --> 00:19:16.362
That in which there is uncertainty in
determining the meaning,

00:19:16.362 --> 00:19:18.952
and in which there is apprehension
about the meaning.

00:19:18.952 --> 00:19:21.972
So this is how he explains the term.

00:19:21.972 --> 00:19:25.642
So this means that in both these scholars,
and Zamakhshari was a Mutazilite,

00:19:25.642 --> 00:19:27.382
and Imam Razi belonged to the
Ash'ari school of thought.

00:19:27.382 --> 00:19:28.912
He is an Imam of the Ash'aris.

00:19:28.912 --> 00:19:31.242
And despite being an Ash'ari and
Mutazilite,

00:19:31.242 --> 00:19:33.372
there was no difference in their opinions
in this matter.

00:19:33.372 --> 00:19:35.112
Because both of them presented
their arguments,

00:19:35.112 --> 00:19:36.532
and there was no difference in
their conclusions.

00:19:36.532 --> 00:19:39.142
Now see, there is Maulana Shabbir
Ahmad Usmani,

00:19:39.142 --> 00:19:43.682
and naturally among our esteemed
scholars of the contemporary era,

00:19:43.682 --> 00:19:47.362
especially those of the classical and
traditionalist school of thought,

00:19:47.362 --> 00:19:49.192
he is among the great scholars
of that worldview.

00:19:49.192 --> 00:19:52.405
He too has written a note on this.

00:19:52.405 --> 00:19:55.265
He says that you must look at it
this way,

00:19:55.265 --> 00:19:58.225
that in the Holy Quran, and in fact in
all the revealed Books,

00:19:58.225 --> 00:20:01.405
there are two kinds of verses
which are found.

00:20:01.405 --> 00:20:05.405
One is the kind whose intention
is known and established.

00:20:05.924 --> 00:20:09.424
Whether it is because, with regards
to the vocabulary and style,

00:20:09.424 --> 00:20:13.124
there is no doubt and ambiguity
in the words.

00:20:13.124 --> 00:20:16.274
Nor does their interpretation imply
multiple meanings.

00:20:16.274 --> 00:20:22.524
So if we have a verse, its intention
is known and established.

00:20:22.524 --> 00:20:26.234
In which aspects? Well, with regards
to its vocabulary and linguistic style,

00:20:26.234 --> 00:20:27.825
there is no ambiguity in
its words.

00:20:27.825 --> 00:20:30.235
But since he does not agree with
what Imam Razi says,

00:20:30.235 --> 00:20:31.975
therefore he has accepted this
approach.

00:20:31.975 --> 00:20:34.425
That with regards to the vocabulary,
style, and grammar,

00:20:34.425 --> 00:20:37.305
we are absolutely clear in what its
subject matter is.

00:20:37.305 --> 00:20:39.315
There is no doubt or ambiguity
in its words,

00:20:39.315 --> 00:20:41.585
nor does their interpretation imply
multiple meanings.

00:20:41.585 --> 00:20:44.685
And it is also not the case that out
of all the meanings known to us,

00:20:44.685 --> 00:20:47.125
it might be said that this verse could
also mean something else.

00:20:47.125 --> 00:20:49.675
This is also not the case. It can
only have one meaning.

00:20:49.675 --> 00:20:51.785
Nor is it that that which was
considered reasonable,

00:20:51.785 --> 00:20:53.725
is actually against the universally
accepted rules.

00:20:53.725 --> 00:20:55.528
This is that same point.

00:20:55.528 --> 00:21:00.948
So the intentionality of the verse,
that which was understood from it,

00:21:00.948 --> 00:21:03.808
is not against the commonly
accepted rules.

00:21:03.808 --> 00:21:06.658
Here he has not specifically mentioned
reason, but that is his reference.

00:21:06.658 --> 00:21:11.738
If the meaning is against
the universal rules or reason,

00:21:11.738 --> 00:21:15.018
if this is the case, then he says that
it becomes muhkam.

00:21:15.991 --> 00:21:19.346
Or else because, and this is the other
category of muhkam,

00:21:19.346 --> 00:21:21.746
or else because in the text and the
terms used,

00:21:21.746 --> 00:21:24.686
even though many other meanings
could have been implied instead,

00:21:24.686 --> 00:21:27.416
so with regards to its vocabulary,
multiple meanings could have been implied.

00:21:27.416 --> 00:21:30.796
But the detailed proofs given by
the law giver (the Prophet).

00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:36.470
It means the Prophet (pbuh) mentioned
it somewhere in the Hadith,

00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:38.430
and it gained fame and
reputation.

00:21:38.430 --> 00:21:41.000
This is a specific terminology,
nusuus-e mustafiiza.

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.350
Or the consensus of the
(infallible) Ummah.

00:21:45.144 --> 00:21:49.164
Or the Ummah unanimously agreed on it,
and the collective Ummah is infallible.

00:21:50.552 --> 00:21:54.023
Or the common, universally accepted
principles of religion

00:21:54.023 --> 00:21:57.841
has categorically established that the
intention of the speaker was not that,

00:21:57.841 --> 00:22:01.031
but is this. So the apparent meaning
which we understood, that is correct.

00:22:01.031 --> 00:22:03.821
Such verses are called muhkamaat.

00:22:03.821 --> 00:22:10.651
So he has presented that opinion in
the contemporary style.

00:22:10.651 --> 00:22:13.711
The second kind of verses are
called mutashaabihaat,

00:22:13.711 --> 00:22:18.619
that is, the intention and meaning of
which is not determined

00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:20.813
because of some doubts and
ambiguities.

00:22:20.813 --> 00:22:22.403
See the words have been repeated
by him.

00:22:22.403 --> 00:22:26.403
Doubtful and ambiguous. This is
how he has explained ambiguous verse.

00:22:26.403 --> 00:22:31.358
So this is the exact same explanation,
except with the rational element.

00:22:31.358 --> 00:22:34.508
That part he has conveyed in the
end in another way.

00:22:34.508 --> 00:22:38.038
But you can see that here too,
the meaning has been established

00:22:38.038 --> 00:22:40.708
either through the words, or the
grammatical style.

00:22:40.708 --> 00:22:44.028
And if that has not happened and
there was some apprehension in meaning,

00:22:44.028 --> 00:22:46.448
and the Quran itself could not
establish it,

00:22:47.932 --> 00:22:52.312
it was determined by the Prophet's
clear proofs, confirming the meaning.

00:22:52.312 --> 00:22:55.162
The consensus of the Ummah determined
that this is the meaning.

00:22:55.162 --> 00:22:57.812
Or it was derived from the generally
accepted principles of the religion.

00:22:57.812 --> 00:23:00.722
The Quran commanded that the man or
woman who commits adultery,

00:23:00.722 --> 00:23:02.762
should be punished with a
hundred lashes.

00:23:02.762 --> 00:23:05.402
Now naturally one understands from it
that whoever commits adultery,

00:23:05.402 --> 00:23:07.112
should be punished with a
hundred lashes.

00:23:07.112 --> 00:23:09.712
Then nusuus-e-mustafiiza came from
the Prophet (pbuh)

00:23:09.712 --> 00:23:12.482
and told us that it only refers
to a bachelor.

00:23:14.899 --> 00:23:17.439
The Ummah unanimously concurred
with this.

00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.499
So we got nusuus-e-mustafiiza, as well
as the consensus of the common people.

00:23:22.499 --> 00:23:24.689
Now the apparent meaning which was
understood from the words,

00:23:24.689 --> 00:23:26.399
would you accept that?

00:23:28.021 --> 00:23:30.431
You should not accept it based
on this principle.

00:23:30.431 --> 00:23:32.591
Is the matter clear from this
example?

00:23:32.591 --> 00:23:37.341
The Quran said that whichever person
commits adultery, man or woman,

00:23:37.341 --> 00:23:39.791
should be punished with a
hundred lashes.

00:23:39.791 --> 00:23:42.991
For when you read this verse, the
apparent meaning is of course that

00:23:42.991 --> 00:23:45.153
whoever commits adultery should
be given a hundred lashes.

00:23:45.153 --> 00:23:48.003
There is no mention of an unwed or
a married person here.

00:23:48.003 --> 00:23:52.833
But what happened then? As soon as
we derived this apparent meaning from it,

00:23:52.833 --> 00:23:56.173
along with it came some nusuus-e
mustafiiza,

00:23:56.173 --> 00:23:58.113
that is, some famous narrations
came from the Prophet.

00:23:58.113 --> 00:24:02.733
They informed us that no, this verse is
referring only to an unwed adulterer.

00:24:04.435 --> 00:24:07.715
The consensus of the common people,
i.e. the Ummah, agreed with it.

00:24:07.715 --> 00:24:11.085
And other rules of jurisprudence also
came up in its support.

00:24:11.085 --> 00:24:14.415
After that, the apparent meaning which was
derived from the words,

00:24:14.415 --> 00:24:18.295
we did not accept that meaning.
This is what he is saying.

00:24:18.295 --> 00:24:21.765
Please do not think from this that
I am advocating it as correct.

00:24:21.765 --> 00:24:24.475
I am only giving you an example
that this is how he will take it.

00:24:24.475 --> 00:24:26.895
What was the difficulty he was
faced with?

00:24:26.895 --> 00:24:30.415
The difficulty was that the apparent
meaning conveyed by the words of Quran,

00:24:30.415 --> 00:24:33.105
naturally there are textual evidences
contrary to it.

00:24:33.105 --> 00:24:35.065
So this is the way he adopted
to deal with it.

00:24:35.065 --> 00:24:36.325
That this is how it will become
muhkam.

00:24:36.325 --> 00:24:38.316
This is the case with Shabbir Ahmad
Usmani.

00:24:38.316 --> 00:24:42.205
Now you can see, one of our scholars
from the previous generation,

00:24:42.205 --> 00:24:47.955
Maulana Syed Abul A'la Maududi.
He is also saying the exact same thing.

00:24:47.955 --> 00:24:51.745
Muhkam verses refer to those verses
whose language is completely clear,

00:24:51.745 --> 00:24:55.495
in which there is no ambiguity while
determining their meaning,

00:24:55.495 --> 00:24:59.075
whose words testify their intentionality
and meaning clearly and categorically,

00:24:59.075 --> 00:25:02.694
and are hardly possible for anyone to make
them a practice board

00:25:02.694 --> 00:25:04.604
for expansive interpretations.

00:25:04.604 --> 00:25:08.254
Since he is a writer, he has presented the
matter so simply.

00:25:08.254 --> 00:25:11.464
Mutashaabihaat, that is, those verses in
whose meaning there is a possibility

00:25:11.464 --> 00:25:12.994
of ambiguity and doubt.

00:25:12.994 --> 00:25:15.494
This is how he has defined muhkam
and mutashaabihaat.

00:25:15.494 --> 00:25:18.724
So one can see in this matter that
'muttafiq gar deed raay bu ali bayad

00:25:18.724 --> 00:25:20.194
Everyone holds the same opinion.

00:25:20.194 --> 00:25:23.924
There is no particular difference in how
scholars approach this.

00:25:23.924 --> 00:25:30.150
So you can say that in our tradition, this
is the position of the classical scholars.

00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:33.240
Now about this opinion, recall one
thing again in your minds.

00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.880
What is the issue? There are two words
in the Quran,

00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.060
'mutashaabih' and 'taveel'. These are
the fundamental words in the verse.

00:25:40.060 --> 00:25:44.650
The word 'mutashaabih' has been taken
by him in the same sense

00:25:44.650 --> 00:25:47.330
as we ascribe to the word 'mushtabeh'
(ambiguous).

00:25:47.330 --> 00:25:49.890
And he has explained that too.
'Mushtabeh'.

00:25:49.890 --> 00:25:52.690
A word which carries the probability
of many meanings.

00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:56.160
How has this meaning been derived? I have
already told that in the previous lecture.

00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.730
So it is not as if that word does not
have those other meanings, it does.

00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:02.540
When that word is used, going by
its conclusions,

00:26:02.540 --> 00:26:06.540
it also has this meaning, and this meaning
was derived among linguists,

00:26:06.540 --> 00:26:09.510
and they started using this word
to imply this particular meaning.

00:26:09.510 --> 00:26:12.970
Its example is found in the Quran as well
as in our colloquial use as well.

00:26:12.970 --> 00:26:15.926
About the word 'taveel' I have already
mentioned that

00:26:15.926 --> 00:26:22.420
in the ancient vocabulary, it was used to
return something to its misdaaq or reality

00:26:22.420 --> 00:26:25.170
Now you know the meaning of
misdaaq (actual referent).

00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:33.270
But in the later eras, it began to be used
to imply meaning and explanation.

00:26:33.270 --> 00:26:35.680
We use this word quite commonly.

00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.680
So this later (born-again) meaning of 
this word, and the meaning of mutashaabih,

00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:43.422
both of these were taken together
and a meaning was derived from the verse.

00:26:43.422 --> 00:26:46.002
Now naturally when one understands
the subject matter of the verse,

00:26:46.002 --> 00:26:48.632
then whether you take the position of
Imam Razi,

00:26:48.632 --> 00:26:51.882
or you take the stance of Maulana
Shabbir Ahmad Usmani,

00:26:51.882 --> 00:26:54.032
or whether you decide to go by the
opinion of Zamakhshari,

00:26:54.032 --> 00:26:58.032
or even if you see Maulana Maududi,
all of them convey the same thing

00:26:58.032 --> 00:27:02.032
that there are some verses in the
Quran, in whose meanings

00:27:02.032 --> 00:27:06.032
there is a possibility of ambiguity. This
would be the conclusion from it right?

00:27:06.032 --> 00:27:09.192
So the subject matter of those verses is
ambiguous or vague for us.

00:27:09.192 --> 00:27:11.742
We cannot categorically establish it.

00:27:11.742 --> 00:27:14.632
I had said that whenever we have to
understanding the meaning of something,

00:27:14.632 --> 00:27:16.892
we must always go to its source.

00:27:16.892 --> 00:27:20.292
So here the mistake which has
occurred,

00:27:20.292 --> 00:27:25.592
it happened first in determining the
meaning of the word 'mutashabeh'.

00:27:25.592 --> 00:27:30.434
And the second error was taking the
word 'taveel' in its later meaning.

00:27:30.434 --> 00:27:32.084
This was the second mistake.

00:27:32.084 --> 00:27:35.564
In what sense has the word 'mutashaabeh'
been used here actually?

00:27:35.564 --> 00:27:38.364
It has been used in its literal
sense only.

00:27:39.888 --> 00:27:42.752
It means things are similar or
indistinguishable.

00:27:42.752 --> 00:27:45.732
Similar things means firstly in the
sense as used in

00:27:45.732 --> 00:27:48.044
'Kitaabam mutashabiham masaani'.

00:27:48.044 --> 00:27:51.084
That the verses of the Quran are similar
and of a related disposition.

00:27:51.084 --> 00:27:53.484
That gives it a second meaning.

00:27:53.484 --> 00:27:57.754
But one meaning is that some verses
of the Quran are those which have words

00:27:57.754 --> 00:28:03.964
which relate the unknown referents to
things are well known to all.

00:28:05.711 --> 00:28:07.422
Understand this sentence.

00:28:07.422 --> 00:28:12.522
The unknown referent of things is related
to known ones to explain them.

00:28:12.522 --> 00:28:14.822
Why did Allah feel the need
to do this?

00:28:14.822 --> 00:28:20.870
This need arose because Allah is
saying a lot about this world in the Quran

00:28:20.870 --> 00:28:24.970
but the most significant things that
He is proclaiming are basically only two.

00:28:24.970 --> 00:28:30.280
One is that this Universe has a
Creator, whose own world is concealed.

00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:35.280
We cannot see it, nor can we conceptualize
or observe its substance,

00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:37.860
nor can we see the
actions therein.

00:28:37.860 --> 00:28:39.640
I have not used the word
'attributes',

00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.200
because the evidence of those
attributes is present in this world.

00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:45.260
So we cannot see the substance of
that Creator or His world,

00:28:45.260 --> 00:28:48.050
nor do we see how He brings about
any actions.

00:28:48.937 --> 00:28:52.937
I will tell you later on that this is
that very issue

00:28:52.937 --> 00:28:56.357
from where the debates of ontology and
epistemology arose in philosophy ...

00:28:56.357 --> 00:28:58.147
But this is a topic for a later stage.

00:28:58.147 --> 00:29:01.467
So there is no example of the substance
of the unseen world before us,

00:29:01.467 --> 00:29:04.907
there is nothing we can see. It is an
essence of a concealed world.

00:29:04.907 --> 00:29:07.267
What is it, of what nature, we don't
know anything.

00:29:07.267 --> 00:29:09.937
We cannot see it, cannot observe it.

00:29:09.937 --> 00:29:13.937
And in a similar way are its actions,
how does it bring them about?

00:29:13.937 --> 00:29:16.767
A being produces some actions
right?

00:29:16.767 --> 00:29:18.967
Attributes are simply the properties
of that being.

00:29:18.967 --> 00:29:20.797
We can conceptualize and imagine
those.

00:29:20.797 --> 00:29:23.537
But when an act or deed is
brought about,

00:29:23.537 --> 00:29:27.087
then a need arises that it be observed, or
be witnessed,

00:29:27.087 --> 00:29:29.687
that others should understand what
deed is being done.

00:29:29.687 --> 00:29:32.147
So we can see neither of those
things.

00:29:32.147 --> 00:29:35.227
And yet the Quran has to introduce
God.

00:29:35.227 --> 00:29:40.417
Because to have faith resting solely on
God, the entire religion rests on this.

00:29:40.417 --> 00:29:46.337
But He cannot be shown, and nor
can His actions be observed.

00:29:46.337 --> 00:29:50.167
The second aspect which forms
the basis in the Quran

00:29:50.167 --> 00:29:52.457
is that one day all of us have
to depart this world

00:29:52.457 --> 00:29:55.707
and there is another world in which
we have to open our eyes.

00:29:55.707 --> 00:29:59.707
Which is a concealed world, and it
proclaims that there will a Judgement Day.

00:29:59.707 --> 00:30:02.837
That Judgment Day which will come,
that too will bring forth a world

00:30:02.837 --> 00:30:06.837
which we have not seen. 
We cannot observe it right now.

00:30:06.837 --> 00:30:09.167
So this means that the invitation
of the Quran

00:30:09.167 --> 00:30:13.377
is based on two fundamental premises
which it wants to convince us of,

00:30:13.377 --> 00:30:16.507
i.e. the existence of God, and
the Day of Judgment,

00:30:16.507 --> 00:30:20.507
if some idea and conception has to
be given to us about both of them,

00:30:20.507 --> 00:30:23.277
for both of these conceptions are
absolutely clear and established.

00:30:23.277 --> 00:30:25.527
One should have faith in Allah who
is the Creator of this Universe,

00:30:25.527 --> 00:30:27.797
there is no debate about this.
This is absolutely muhkam.

00:30:27.797 --> 00:30:29.527
Similar is the case with the
Day of Judgment.

00:30:29.527 --> 00:30:31.487
But what is God like?

00:30:31.487 --> 00:30:35.487
And what would Judgment Day be
like, what kind of world would it be?

00:30:35.487 --> 00:30:38.207
These are the things which belong
to the concealed world.

00:30:38.207 --> 00:30:42.057
In this unseen world, there would be
some material things, right?

00:30:42.057 --> 00:30:44.995
And there would be some ideas.
This is how it would be right?

00:30:44.995 --> 00:30:48.537
At least we cannot imagine or ascertain
anything more than that.

00:30:48.537 --> 00:30:52.537
And those things and ideas would be in
some perceptible form.

00:30:52.537 --> 00:30:56.270
There would be a tree. What would
it be like? Well it would be like a tree.

00:30:56.270 --> 00:30:58.467
There would be fruit. And it would
be like a fruit!

00:30:58.467 --> 00:31:00.787
There would be some living creatures,
probably us only.

00:31:00.787 --> 00:31:02.967
So there would be some things
there, i.e. referents!

00:31:02.967 --> 00:31:06.617
Now those entities which will be there,
we have no words for them in our language.

00:31:06.617 --> 00:31:08.987
Like I gave you the example
of Mars.

00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:14.639
Because they have never been seen
before, nor has anyone imagined them here.

00:31:14.639 --> 00:31:17.469
So how could we have words for them?
We don't have any in our language.

00:31:17.469 --> 00:31:19.989
If a conception or imagination of them
has to be conveyed,

00:31:19.989 --> 00:31:21.830
what way would be adopted to
do that?

00:31:21.830 --> 00:31:25.580
The way can only be that that entity
of the concealed world

00:31:25.580 --> 00:31:29.820
should be placed in relation to an
entity closest to it in this world,

00:31:29.820 --> 00:31:32.600
and the word which is being used
to refer to the thing here,

00:31:32.600 --> 00:31:34.380
should be used for the unseen
thing too.

00:31:35.257 --> 00:31:38.700
This is the only way one can adopt for
it right? There is no other way for it.

00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.587
So the verses in which Quran has
used this approach,

00:31:41.587 --> 00:31:43.477
are the mutashaabihaat ones.

00:31:43.477 --> 00:31:45.457
It does not mean their meaning
is ambiguous,

00:31:45.457 --> 00:31:47.657
for their meanings are absolutely
clear.

00:31:47.657 --> 00:31:50.808
Only the objects they're referring to
are not before our eyes.

00:31:50.808 --> 00:31:52.878
But there is no doubt in their
meanings.

00:31:52.878 --> 00:31:56.878
It is absolutely clear. When the Quran
says that there would be fruits there,

00:31:56.878 --> 00:32:01.388
so this word used by the Quran, or when
it is saying there would be streams there,

00:32:01.388 --> 00:32:04.648
these words are Arabic words it uses,
and their meaning is known to us.

00:32:04.648 --> 00:32:06.428
There is no issue in the meanings
of these words.

00:32:06.428 --> 00:32:08.248
But what kind of a stream would
it be?

00:32:08.248 --> 00:32:12.248
So it just means that the conception
of that stream is not in front of us.

00:32:12.248 --> 00:32:16.248
So what has been done? An example
has been taken of a stream in this world,

00:32:16.248 --> 00:32:19.188
and in the afterlife too there is
a stream that runs. What kind is it?

00:32:19.188 --> 00:32:21.108
It is possible that it would be
completely different from this one.

00:32:21.108 --> 00:32:23.880
Like I gave you the example of
a 'degcha' (small pot).

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:25.428
'Deg' (cauldron) could be seen
lying before people's eyes.

00:32:25.428 --> 00:32:27.658
But the 'cha' part had not come
into existence back then!

00:32:27.658 --> 00:32:31.658
So in light of that 'deg' lying before
us, we created the name 'degcha'.

00:32:31.658 --> 00:32:34.748
So this approach is adopted by
Allah as well.

00:32:34.748 --> 00:32:37.980
And apart from this, there is
no other way.

00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:40.538
There is no other way of presenting
an unseen world.

00:32:40.538 --> 00:32:43.318
Not just Allah, but we too do the
same thing.

00:32:43.318 --> 00:32:48.580
If we have to convey such a thing
which has not yet come into existence,

00:32:48.580 --> 00:32:51.588
what do we do? We use the tool
of simile or comparison.

00:32:51.588 --> 00:32:54.988
That is what we do right? In fact the
things which have come into existence,

00:32:54.988 --> 00:32:58.638
about them too we are at times
unable to communicate our impressions

00:32:58.638 --> 00:33:00.788
without using the simile or
comparison.

00:33:00.788 --> 00:33:07.698
We have not seen the lips that Mir
praises in this poetry.

00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:13.810
And he insists that nowhere else
can one find such beautiful lips.

00:33:13.810 --> 00:33:18.640
So he took us to a garden, and said
that you have seen the petals of a flower.

00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:23.072
So the exquisiteness of this petal, its
loveliness, its beauty, its excellence,

00:33:23.072 --> 00:33:29.922
its color, now that you have seen it,
I can use it as a simile to tell you

00:33:29.922 --> 00:33:33.072
that the lips I am talking about
are like this petal.

00:33:33.072 --> 00:33:37.772
'Of her delicate lips, what can one say,
a blushing petal of a rose are they.'

00:33:37.772 --> 00:33:41.862
So here what he has done is, since he
could not show us those lips themselves,

00:33:41.862 --> 00:33:45.142
he could certainly show us the flower
and the petals.

00:33:45.142 --> 00:33:48.052
And he could show us the petals in
such a way

00:33:48.052 --> 00:33:50.912
that it would make clear every
aspect of it.

00:33:52.531 --> 00:33:54.151
Have you understood this?

00:33:54.151 --> 00:33:57.451
So actually the point it that this
is a constraint that applies over us too.

00:33:57.451 --> 00:34:00.421
At times, when we too cannot
show something,

00:34:00.421 --> 00:34:02.651
when we cannot produce the proof
of something.

00:34:02.651 --> 00:34:05.291
One way could have been that Mir
had said, I am lifting the veil,

00:34:05.291 --> 00:34:09.291
have a look at it yourself. So this veil
would be lifted on Judgment Day,

00:34:09.291 --> 00:34:11.031
and then you can see
for yourself.

00:34:11.031 --> 00:34:15.031
But till the veil is lifted, there is no
other way except that

00:34:15.031 --> 00:34:19.031
the things similar to it which are
found in the world,

00:34:19.031 --> 00:34:23.031
a comparison should be drawn with
them to explain one's point.

00:34:23.031 --> 00:34:26.251
So 'mutashaabih' has been used in
its very literal meaning.

00:34:26.251 --> 00:34:32.501
And its meaning is to describe a thing
by reference to its closest example.

00:34:32.501 --> 00:34:37.271
This is what it means. The Quran says
that there are two kinds of verses in it.

00:34:37.271 --> 00:34:41.651
One kind of verses are the ones where
the Quran has clearly conveyed the content

00:34:41.651 --> 00:34:45.121
and they are muhkam verses. The Quran
is saying what it wants to through them.

00:34:45.121 --> 00:34:49.701
And in this respect, all the verses of
the Quran are actually muhkam verses.

00:34:49.701 --> 00:34:54.811
But where a verse has to convey a
quality or attribute of Allah,

00:34:54.811 --> 00:34:57.281
or give a conception of His
actions or deeds,

00:34:57.281 --> 00:35:01.281
or the world which Allah has created,
that unseen world,

00:35:01.281 --> 00:35:02.691
and it includes the past too.

00:35:02.691 --> 00:35:05.481
For instance the Quran wants to
tell us how Adam was created

00:35:05.481 --> 00:35:08.451
and the Spirit was blown into him.
That too was an unseen world for us.

00:35:08.451 --> 00:35:11.991
One concealed world is the one
that is going to come in the afterlife.

00:35:11.991 --> 00:35:14.071
So how will this be conveyed?

00:35:14.071 --> 00:35:18.781
There is no other way to convey it
except to do it through similitude.

00:35:18.781 --> 00:35:21.571
Not the way of ambiguity, but the
style of similitude.

00:35:21.571 --> 00:35:24.633
So what are called the ambiguous verses
of the Quran

00:35:24.633 --> 00:35:26.891
are not actually ambiguous, but are
rather 'mutashaabih' verses.

00:35:26.891 --> 00:35:29.841
That is, the way of similitude and
resemblance has been adopted in them

00:35:29.841 --> 00:35:33.041
and one thing has been drawn parallel
with another

00:35:33.041 --> 00:35:35.284
to create a conception of it
in our minds.

00:35:35.284 --> 00:35:38.894
If there was any other way of conveying
the truth of unseen things,

00:35:38.894 --> 00:35:41.404
then Imam Razi and Zamakhshari would
certainly have told us.

00:35:41.404 --> 00:35:44.514
But there is no other way. This is
the one and only way.

00:35:44.514 --> 00:35:47.364
No other approach is found to
do it at all.

00:35:47.364 --> 00:35:50.584
We are bound to adopt this
approach only.

00:35:50.584 --> 00:35:55.844
Is this clear? Now see, these verses
which are there,

00:35:55.844 --> 00:35:59.844
are known to me too, and you know
it as well.

00:35:59.844 --> 00:36:02.334
Zamakhshari and Imam Razi were also
aware of the meaning.

00:36:02.334 --> 00:36:04.764
Their meaning is known to
all of us.

00:36:04.764 --> 00:36:08.054
But their visual evidence is not seen
by any of us.

00:36:08.054 --> 00:36:09.714
This is the case, isn't it?

00:36:09.714 --> 00:36:14.514
So the Quran did not say that their
meaning is not known to anyone but Allah.

00:36:14.514 --> 00:36:17.504
Quran says that their referent is not
known to anyone except Allah.

00:36:17.504 --> 00:36:23.624
That is, no one knows other than Allah
what paradise really is like.

00:36:23.624 --> 00:36:25.924
Allah knows of course, He is looking
at His paradise.

00:36:25.924 --> 00:36:28.644
He can see the past as well as
the future.

00:36:28.644 --> 00:36:31.574
But Zamakhshari and Razi don't
know what it is like.

00:36:31.574 --> 00:36:34.314
Me and you are not aware of it either.
We don't know.

00:36:34.314 --> 00:36:37.333
So the paradise that Allah has created,
or for that matter the Hell He has made,

00:36:37.333 --> 00:36:39.113
or whichever unseen world He
has created,

00:36:39.113 --> 00:36:41.643
or when He talks of His own
qualities and attributes,

00:36:41.643 --> 00:36:44.877
or when He talks of His deeds.
'Nafakhtu fihi min ruhi.'

00:36:44.877 --> 00:36:46.977
I infused from My own Spirit
into him.

00:36:46.977 --> 00:36:51.229
Allah is narrating an event. Now
naturally we have not seen God,

00:36:51.229 --> 00:36:54.387
nor do we know what His
Spirit means.

00:36:54.387 --> 00:36:56.767
Nor do we know what blowing
it means.

00:36:56.767 --> 00:37:01.787
But whatever occurred, was related
somewhat to the blowing of the Spirit.

00:37:01.787 --> 00:37:04.267
So those were the words taken from
our language,

00:37:04.267 --> 00:37:07.867
and Allah has communicated that
event to us.

00:37:07.867 --> 00:37:12.407
So all such verses are mutashaabih.

00:37:12.407 --> 00:37:16.407
And these are not at all ambiguous in
their subject matter and content.

00:37:16.407 --> 00:37:20.407
They are absolutely clear. We can present
their meaning and content.

00:37:20.407 --> 00:37:23.457
We can debate about it, and we
can determine it.

00:37:23.457 --> 00:37:28.137
If this is clear, then there should be no
problem understanding what I have written.

00:37:28.137 --> 00:37:31.667
Is this clear, where the mistake
originated?

00:37:31.667 --> 00:37:36.497
The mistake arose in two places.
The word 'mutashaabih' has one meaning

00:37:36.497 --> 00:37:41.007
according to its conclusion in the Arabic
language, which is still in use.

00:37:41.007 --> 00:37:44.169
That meaning was taken.
This is the first error.

00:37:44.169 --> 00:37:48.559
The Muvallad meaning of 'taveel' became
dominant in people's minds.

00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:52.819
Muvallad latemeaning means that in the ancient
times, that word did not have that meaning

00:37:52.819 --> 00:37:56.559
but in the later eras the word developed
a new meaning.

00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:00.019
And it began to be used in
that sense.

00:38:00.019 --> 00:38:03.229
So like I had told you in the
previous debate,

00:38:03.229 --> 00:38:05.849
that there too, the mistake which
has been made is

00:38:05.849 --> 00:38:10.339
that the journey of the word, its
reality and the reality of its meaning,

00:38:11.296 --> 00:38:14.605
the reality of its style and its
subject matter,

00:38:14.605 --> 00:38:17.465
has been conflated with an event.

00:38:17.465 --> 00:38:23.585
Whereas an event occurs in the past
and then comes to an end.

00:38:23.585 --> 00:38:27.035
Only its historical narration remains.

00:38:27.035 --> 00:38:31.775
A word is born after centuries, and its
journey continues.

00:38:33.365 --> 00:38:37.148
And this journey, unless the word
becomes obsolete, never ends.

00:38:37.148 --> 00:38:38.968
A word's journey is always
going on.

00:38:38.968 --> 00:38:43.608
So a word is actually a continuous
practice that is perpetually going on.

00:38:43.608 --> 00:38:47.778
It is that which the vocabulary is
conveying, which grammar is presenting.

00:38:47.778 --> 00:38:49.548
Which rhetoric is explaining.

00:38:49.548 --> 00:38:53.816
So the experts of these disciplines are
not actually historians.

00:38:53.816 --> 00:38:58.016
But rather, whatever exists, they are
presenting it and thereby deducing from it

00:38:58.016 --> 00:39:00.296
and are telling us what the
word actually is.

00:39:00.296 --> 00:39:03.686
So there too as I told you, the source
of the mistake is that

00:39:03.686 --> 00:39:09.936
the journey of the word along with its
meaning is conflated as a historical event

00:39:09.936 --> 00:39:12.836
But a word is not an event
from the past.

00:39:12.836 --> 00:39:16.106
Absolutely not.
[Student] The word 'taveel'

00:39:16.106 --> 00:39:18.896
has been used by people in this
sense as well.

00:39:18.896 --> 00:39:22.356
Even if it was not spoken in this sense
in the time of the Prophet (pbuh).

00:39:22.356 --> 00:39:25.886
[Ghamidi] I had said that this word
in that era,

00:39:25.886 --> 00:39:28.546
the dominant meaning of this word
was that of its misdaaq.

00:39:28.546 --> 00:39:30.656
In the Quran too, it has been used
in that sense.

00:39:30.656 --> 00:39:34.226
Its meaning as interpretation and
translation came into use a lot later.

00:39:37.595 --> 00:39:40.176
So now let us read this.

00:39:40.176 --> 00:39:44.176
The answer to the third question is that
it is not correct that

00:39:44.176 --> 00:39:47.556
we cannot with certainty distinguish the
muhkam verses of the Quran

00:39:47.556 --> 00:39:51.806
from the mutashabih or that we are unable
to determine the meaning of mutashabihaat.

00:39:51.806 --> 00:39:54.646
So both of these assumptions
are false.

00:39:54.646 --> 00:39:57.456
We can determine which verses are
mutashaabih.

00:39:57.456 --> 00:40:00.836
Those verses are mutashaabih in which
there is reference to an unseen world,

00:40:00.836 --> 00:40:03.486
whether it is related to our past
or our future.

00:40:03.486 --> 00:40:07.486
Whether it is related to Allah's first
creation, as per human history,

00:40:07.486 --> 00:40:10.396
or whether it is related to whatever
is going to happen on Judgement Day.

00:40:10.396 --> 00:40:13.546
Whether it is related to Allah's own
world where there are angels,

00:40:13.546 --> 00:40:16.007
and we don't know what else
resides there.

00:40:16.007 --> 00:40:18.215
So it might be related to any of it.

00:40:18.215 --> 00:40:22.025
The verses which talk of those
world are mutashaabih.

00:40:23.144 --> 00:40:26.724
All verses of the Quran on which its
guidance is based are muhkam,

00:40:26.724 --> 00:40:31.724
and mutashabih are only those verses which
mention certain blessings and torments

00:40:31.724 --> 00:40:36.964
one may encounter in the Hereafter, which
are stated through parables or similes.

00:40:36.964 --> 00:40:40.104
Or the attributes and actions of God,
or the mention of something

00:40:40.104 --> 00:40:43.014
which is beyond the grasp of our knowledge
and observation

00:40:43.014 --> 00:40:47.034
has been stated about one of His worlds
in an allegorical manner.

00:40:47.034 --> 00:40:49.724
So now it has been absolutely established
and is known of certain

00:40:49.724 --> 00:40:51.864
which verses are mutashaabih.

00:40:51.864 --> 00:40:55.454
Either they are the blessings and
torments of the Hereafter,

00:40:55.454 --> 00:40:58.974
which Allah has to convey to us,
about what blessings will be given there.

00:40:58.974 --> 00:41:00.784
Or what punishments will be inflicted
in Hell.

00:41:00.784 --> 00:41:04.004
What would be its nature? Would it
be with fire, a tree of Thuhar (Sehund),

00:41:04.004 --> 00:41:07.394
there would be pus to drink, Allah
says all this about Hereafter, right?

00:41:07.394 --> 00:41:09.104
Same is the case with paradise.

00:41:09.104 --> 00:41:11.984
Or the mention of the attributes and
actions of God.

00:41:11.984 --> 00:41:15.984
Naturally we have not seen Allah,
and we are unfamiliar

00:41:15.984 --> 00:41:18.794
with the nature of his attributes.
Although we have some idea of them.

00:41:18.794 --> 00:41:21.984
His actions are something we cannot
see at all, we cannot observe them.

00:41:21.984 --> 00:41:24.994
Allah has to convey them too, like
I had given you the example,

00:41:24.994 --> 00:41:28.056
when Allah says that I blew My
Spirit into Adam.

00:41:28.056 --> 00:41:33.736
This is His action. But I cannot show
it to you, cannot make you observe it.

00:41:33.736 --> 00:41:37.371
Or the mention of something which is
beyond our knowledge and observation,

00:41:37.371 --> 00:41:39.276
about one of His worlds.

00:41:39.276 --> 00:41:44.156
So there is a world of Allah which is
beyond our knowledge or observation.

00:41:44.156 --> 00:41:46.676
and some element of it has been
described in an allegorical way.

00:41:46.676 --> 00:41:49.996
For instance, God blowing His spirit
into Adam,

00:41:49.996 --> 00:41:53.346
the birth of Jesus (AS) without
a father,

00:41:53.346 --> 00:41:56.686
or the various places and circumstances
one may encounter in Paradise and Hell.

00:41:56.686 --> 00:42:01.686
These are the things about which only
this manner can be used to describe.

00:42:01.686 --> 00:42:09.846
All things for which words have not yet
been invented,

00:42:09.846 --> 00:42:14.686
can only be stated through parables
and similes.

00:42:14.686 --> 00:42:17.206
This is the point which I have already
explained to you.

00:42:17.206 --> 00:42:24.036
Two hundred years ago, if a person had
foreknowledge of electricity bulbs

00:42:24.036 --> 00:42:27.396
when they had not been invented yet,
he would perhaps have said,

00:42:27.396 --> 00:42:32.166
lanterns which would neither require oil
nor fire will one day light up the world.

00:42:32.166 --> 00:42:34.386
This is how it would have been
described right?

00:42:34.386 --> 00:42:36.956
An unseen world which has now
become observable.

00:42:36.956 --> 00:42:40.606
Now we can see it and words have been
created to describe it.

00:42:40.606 --> 00:42:44.026
Now there is no difficulty faced
in interpreting it.

00:42:44.026 --> 00:42:50.116
But if two or three hundred years ago if
one had to describe the electricity bulbs

00:42:50.116 --> 00:42:54.506
which is an extraordinary thing. It's such
a thing human beings have conquered

00:42:54.506 --> 00:42:56.706
which has created a drastically
new world.

00:42:56.706 --> 00:42:59.446
If someone had wanted to convey this two
centuries ago, how would he describe it?

00:42:59.446 --> 00:43:01.466
He would have done it in these
words right?

00:43:01.466 --> 00:43:04.246
The nature of mutashaabih verses is
no different.

00:43:04.246 --> 00:43:07.866
Neither are they unascertainable nor is
there any ambiguity in their meaning.

00:43:08.691 --> 00:43:12.021
So they are ascertainable, we can tell
which verses are mutashaabih

00:43:12.021 --> 00:43:14.181
based on this principle which
is there.

00:43:14.181 --> 00:43:15.821
And nor is there any ambiguity
in their meaning.

00:43:15.821 --> 00:43:20.111
Their intention is absolutely clear, and
there is no issue in understanding them.

00:43:20.111 --> 00:43:23.831
Their words are that of an
eloquent Arabic,

00:43:23.831 --> 00:43:27.551
and we are able to understand their
meaning without any difficulty.

00:43:27.551 --> 00:43:29.961
So there is no difficulty in understanding
their meaning.

00:43:29.961 --> 00:43:35.761
The only thing is that we are not able to
understand what they imply in this life.

00:43:35.761 --> 00:43:41.691
This is the fact of the matter. That we
are not meant to know what they imply.

00:43:41.691 --> 00:43:44.941
However, since this lack of understanding
has nothing to do

00:43:44.941 --> 00:43:46.461
with understanding the Quran,

00:43:46.461 --> 00:43:50.461
so a believer should not pursue the
determination of what they imply.

00:43:50.461 --> 00:43:53.061
So when we have understood that Allah's
blessings will be given

00:43:53.061 --> 00:43:55.781
in the form of Paradise, and this
statement is absolutely muhkam,

00:43:55.781 --> 00:43:58.481
and in that blessing is a great
peace of mind and sight for us.

00:43:58.481 --> 00:44:02.121
And all of our instinctive and natural
desires will be fulfilled there.

00:44:02.121 --> 00:44:04.431
And they will be fulfilled to the utmost
extent, we have understood this.

00:44:04.431 --> 00:44:08.431
But if a person decides to pursue that the
Thuhar tree that will be there in Hell,

00:44:08.431 --> 00:44:11.391
what would it really be like?
Then Nadeem would become Hyder.

00:44:13.711 --> 00:44:15.081
He would be right?

00:44:15.414 --> 00:44:18.254
He was laughing so I referred
to him.

00:44:18.912 --> 00:44:24.612
So to pursue the question of something
indeterminate ... what does it entail?

00:44:24.612 --> 00:44:26.972
Streams might flow in the Paradise,

00:44:26.972 --> 00:44:30.092
but to attempt to conceptualize an
image of that stream.

00:44:30.092 --> 00:44:33.101
And to argue and fight about it.

00:44:33.101 --> 00:44:38.121
What is this? When it is clear that
Allah's blessings will be given to us.

00:44:38.121 --> 00:44:41.611
While explaining this, Imam Amin Ahsan
Islahi writes,

00:44:41.611 --> 00:44:48.681
'The reality to which the mutashaabihaat
point is itself very clear and obvious.'

00:44:48.681 --> 00:44:51.311
So the fundamental reality these
revelations relate to

00:44:51.311 --> 00:44:54.761
are rewards and punishments. About
getting Allah's rewards or punishments

00:44:54.761 --> 00:44:58.241
on the Judgment Day. So this is absolutely
clear and obvious in the verses.

00:44:58.241 --> 00:45:02.961
'The intellect can understand that part of
it which is essential for it to understand

00:45:02.961 --> 00:45:06.741
However, since it belongs to an
unseen world,

00:45:06.741 --> 00:45:10.741
the Quran mentions it through parables
and similes

00:45:10.741 --> 00:45:15.101
so that students of the Quran can
understand it as per their capabilities

00:45:15.101 --> 00:45:18.871
and consider that only God knows what
their real form and shape is.'

00:45:18.871 --> 00:45:22.181
So the correct attitude is that people
should be grateful

00:45:22.181 --> 00:45:25.461
for whatever knowledge Allah has
given us about these things.

00:45:25.461 --> 00:45:27.931
And instead of quibbling over the reality
of those things,

00:45:27.931 --> 00:45:31.501
we should leave it up to Allah. Whenever
Allah will want to, He will lift the veil,

00:45:31.501 --> 00:45:33.061
we will know the truth in the
Hereafter.

00:45:33.061 --> 00:45:35.411
'These relate to attributes and works
of God

00:45:35.411 --> 00:45:39.071
or to the reward and punishment
of the Hereafter.

00:45:39.071 --> 00:45:43.423
We are able to understand them to the
extent we need to understand them,

00:45:43.423 --> 00:45:46.553
and this increases our knowledge
and certainty,

00:45:46.553 --> 00:45:53.143
but if we go beyond this and start to seek
their real form and shape,

00:45:53.143 --> 00:45:55.433
then this will only lead
us astray.'

00:45:55.433 --> 00:45:58.723
If you open the doors to this kind
of debate,

00:45:58.723 --> 00:46:01.623
that the tree which will be there in
Hell and the fire that would be burning,

00:46:01.623 --> 00:46:05.203
then what would that tree be like
which would not catch fire?

00:46:05.203 --> 00:46:09.203
This creates an issue then, right?
This example has been given in the Quran.

00:46:09.203 --> 00:46:11.653
That the unbelievers brought up this
debate that

00:46:11.653 --> 00:46:14.113
look how irrational statements the
believers are making.

00:46:14.113 --> 00:46:18.113
They say that there would be fire in
Hell and a Thuhar tree as well!

00:46:18.113 --> 00:46:20.383
But if there would be fire there cannot
be a tree surviving in it,

00:46:20.383 --> 00:46:22.173
and if the tree is there, then there
can't be a fire.

00:46:22.173 --> 00:46:25.532
This is actually making a comparison
of it with this world.

00:46:27.499 --> 00:46:32.459
'But if we try to go beyond our limit and
start to seek their real form and shape.'

00:46:32.459 --> 00:46:35.209
See he doesn't say meaning or sense, he
is talking of the real form and shape.

00:46:35.209 --> 00:46:39.209
If we try to capture that, then that leads
us astray and causes strife.

00:46:39.209 --> 00:46:44.129
'The result of this is that while wanting
to remove one thorn of doubt from the mind

00:46:44.129 --> 00:46:48.840
a person ends up getting pricked by
many more.

00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:54.390
So much so, that in this quest to know
more he loses what he had gained.'

00:46:55.625 --> 00:47:01.865
So the situation becomes such that when
one had gone to discover something unknown

00:47:01.865 --> 00:47:04.805
when he came back he had
lost even himself.

00:47:04.805 --> 00:47:06.985
In the words of Ghalib, he even lost
himself in the fruitless search.

00:47:06.985 --> 00:47:08.735
This is what happens.

00:47:08.735 --> 00:47:13.145
'And refutes very clear facts just because
he is not able to ascertain

00:47:13.145 --> 00:47:16.085
their form and shape.' So something
was very clear,

00:47:16.085 --> 00:47:20.265
but he negated it only because he could
not understand

00:47:20.265 --> 00:47:22.405
what the Thuhar tree would
be like.

00:47:22.405 --> 00:47:24.305
Or what would the stream of Paradise
look like?

00:47:24.305 --> 00:47:26.933
Or how would honey flow in the
rivers?

00:47:26.933 --> 00:47:30.103
[Student] But reading these Surahs
seems as if

00:47:30.103 --> 00:47:32.679
it is necessary for one to
have faith first.

00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:37.929
So if one wants to understand mutashaabih
verses, one would have to have faith first

00:47:37.929 --> 00:47:42.329
only then can one reach a conclusion
in this debate.

00:47:42.329 --> 00:47:44.849
[Ghamidi] No, one can easily
understand them.

00:47:44.849 --> 00:47:48.849
If it is clear to a person based on
rational arguments,

00:47:48.849 --> 00:47:53.219
that the Hereafter should exist. 
Now Allah has presented a picture for us

00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:56.963
of the Hereafter. No rational person would
have difficulty in understanding this.

00:47:56.963 --> 00:47:58.883
There is no need for one to have
faith in it first.

00:47:58.883 --> 00:48:02.443
It is comprehensible for all, that
there would be streams there,

00:48:02.443 --> 00:48:04.173
and so and so blessings would
be there.

00:48:04.173 --> 00:48:07.403
This can be understood. As for faith,
that has to be accepted about Paradise.

00:48:07.403 --> 00:48:09.943
One would need to have faith
about rewards and punishments.

00:48:09.943 --> 00:48:13.513
The subject of faith and belief is not
that stream which would be flowing there.

00:48:13.513 --> 00:48:16.923
The concern for a believer is simply that
there would be a reward and punishment.

00:48:16.923 --> 00:48:19.093
This is a very rational point, and it can
be understood by every person in the world

00:48:19.093 --> 00:48:21.913
that this is how it should be. 
But when you have accepted it,

00:48:21.913 --> 00:48:24.453
based on your intellect and reason that
there would be a Judgment Day,

00:48:24.453 --> 00:48:27.773
then what would be the debate
about the particular details of it?

00:48:27.773 --> 00:48:30.073
There is no difficulty in even
understanding the particulars,

00:48:30.073 --> 00:48:33.793
but only its referent is not before us.
That is the only thing.

00:48:37.259 --> 00:48:41.259
[Ghamidi] So it means that this meaning
which we have just used,

00:48:41.259 --> 00:48:43.719
what is that entity for which they
stand true?

00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:46.309
'Degcha' for instance, what is that
thing for which its meaning stands?

00:48:46.309 --> 00:48:48.559
That pot which is lying in the kitchen
in your house.

00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:50.499
[Student] So can we convey it in
some other words then?

00:48:50.499 --> 00:48:51.969
[Ghamidi] Yes you absolutely can
convey it in some other words,

00:48:51.969 --> 00:48:53.669
to communicate what the reality
of that thing is.

00:48:55.136 --> 00:48:57.216
Is the time up?
[Student] We have two minutes left.

00:48:57.216 --> 00:49:03.356
[Ghamidi] So we cannot read the next
paragraph right now in two minutes.

00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:10.480
[Student] Are the angels and Iblees
(Satan) also mutashaabih?

00:49:12.122 --> 00:49:14.852
[Ghamidi] Naturally we have not seen
Iblees ourselves.

00:49:14.852 --> 00:49:17.992
If someone has met him then I
cannot speak for that person.

00:49:22.640 --> 00:49:25.260
No that is a separate debate, what
he is or is not.

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:29.260
We have not seen Iblees, we do not know
who Iblees is, or what Djinns are.

00:49:29.260 --> 00:49:31.890
Allah has only informed us about
them

00:49:31.890 --> 00:49:36.540
and has explained it to us in the
only possible way.

00:49:38.143 --> 00:49:41.493
Anything more than this is simply
not possible for us to have observed.

00:49:41.493 --> 00:49:43.113
When we have not seen something
ourselves,

00:49:43.113 --> 00:49:46.613
although if in case it happens that a
Djinn appears before us,

00:49:47.575 --> 00:49:49.602
then alright, we can see them.

00:49:50.709 --> 00:49:52.079
Even right now what is
the case?

00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:56.503
There was a concept of Djinns created
within the minds of human beings.

00:49:56.503 --> 00:50:00.993
And they interpreted that concept with
a word of their language, 'djinn',

00:50:00.993 --> 00:50:03.383
which basically means concealed
or hidden.

00:50:03.383 --> 00:50:06.963
You see there is no referent conveyed
even within the word itself.

00:50:06.963 --> 00:50:11.520
A concept has been given a word, but
if you go into the meaning of that word,

00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:13.800
then even there you will find no
testimony of the thing itself.

00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:15.660
It simply means concealed.

00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:18.260
It means such a creature which
is hidden.

00:50:18.260 --> 00:50:20.640
Because human beings have never
seen a Djinn,

00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:24.120
therefore they can only ascribe the
word for 'concealed' to that concept.

00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:26.170
Otherwise they would have at least
used a word in which

00:50:26.170 --> 00:50:29.350
there would be a reference or comparison
to some thing or another.

00:50:29.350 --> 00:50:32.780
For instance, if he had to use a
word for it,

00:50:32.780 --> 00:50:36.280
he might have used human beings
as a reference, or maybe an animal,

00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:38.680
and then would have created a word
similar to it.

00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:41.320
But he had to create a word for
a concept, so he said 'djinn',

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.370
that which cannot be seen.

00:50:43.370 --> 00:50:45.710
What happened here?

00:50:45.710 --> 00:50:50.090
We know the meaning of Djinn,
but we do not know its evidence.

00:50:51.108 --> 00:50:54.808
[Student] You mentioned that the
meaning of 'mutashaabih' is

00:50:54.808 --> 00:50:58.008
those verses whose meaning is known
but evidence is not known.

00:50:58.008 --> 00:51:00.788
So the Huruf-e Muqattaat (disjoined
letters) which we see in Quran,

00:51:00.788 --> 00:51:03.758
how would we know their
meanings?

00:51:03.758 --> 00:51:05.948
[Ghamidi] Huruf-e Muqattaat is
a topic of the Quran,

00:51:05.948 --> 00:51:07.588
InshaAllah when I teach you about
it, I will explain it all,

00:51:07.588 --> 00:51:10.658
its meaning is also absolutely
clear and determined.

00:51:15.367 --> 00:51:18.437
Alright, so we are now left with
a bit more of this topic.

00:51:18.437 --> 00:51:21.477
After this we will begin with the next
debate on Friday InshaAllah.