0:00:01.533,0:00:04.043 Meezan - Tadabbur-e Quran[br](Understanding the Quran) 0:00:05.291,0:00:08.971 Topic: Intentionality of words, Muhkam and[br]Mutashaabih. Lecture. 15 B. 26-04-2002 0:00:10.215,0:00:12.795 Scholar. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi 0:00:15.154,0:00:18.984 [Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] Alhumdulillah[br]All Praise is due to Allah, 0:00:18.984,0:00:22.454 Peace and Blessings be upon His[br]Trustworthy Prophet Muhammad. 0:00:22.454,0:00:24.584 I seek refuge with Allah from the[br]accursed Satan. 0:00:24.584,0:00:27.242 In the name of Allah, Most Beneficent[br]and Ever Merciful. 0:00:27.242,0:00:29.032 Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:29.922,0:00:33.532 in the debate about muhkam (clear)[br]and mutashaabih (ambiguous), 0:00:33.532,0:00:37.972 where did the issue originate, is[br]what we have just talked about. 0:00:39.399,0:00:47.149 Now you can see from which angle our[br]researchers and scholars have studied it. 0:00:47.795,0:00:50.875 But to be able to understand their[br]point of view, 0:00:50.875,0:00:56.125 it is crucial for you to first understand[br]the difference between two things. 0:00:56.125,0:00:58.535 I have used two words here, 'maani'[br](meaning), 0:00:58.535,0:01:00.843 and 'misdaaq' (referent or evidence). 0:01:01.601,0:01:04.081 What is the difference between[br]these two? 0:01:06.102,0:01:09.842 Let's go back to the past for sometime. 0:01:11.013,0:01:14.413 And see how there used to be[br]ancient nomadic tribes, 0:01:14.413,0:01:16.963 and they have set up camp at[br]a place. 0:01:16.963,0:01:22.753 There they cook food, they dance[br]and play music, 0:01:22.753,0:01:25.513 and they also come together and gather[br]in assemblies. 0:01:25.513,0:01:28.703 Whatever happens, is done as[br]a collective. 0:01:29.312,0:01:35.638 Individual has not become manifest and[br]autonomous in his own personality. 0:01:35.638,0:01:40.638 So they felt that since human beings[br]have a stomach and hunger is natural, 0:01:40.638,0:01:42.618 food must be prepared to[br]satisfy oneself. 0:01:44.062,0:01:46.392 So when they brought meat[br]from hunting, 0:01:46.392,0:01:48.802 they would have to cook it in order[br]to eat it. 0:01:48.802,0:01:51.642 And in order to cook it, they[br]fashioned a pot. 0:01:51.642,0:01:53.872 Imagine all this for a while. 0:01:53.872,0:01:57.873 So now since it was a huge pot, 0:01:57.873,0:02:02.483 it made it possible to cook the[br]meat for the whole tribe 0:02:02.483,0:02:05.793 and then everyone would sit and[br]eat it together. 0:02:05.793,0:02:08.883 They called it 'deg'. 0:02:10.664,0:02:13.454 They named the huge cauldron or[br]pot as 'deg'. 0:02:13.454,0:02:18.464 Human civilization continued its[br]journey, tribal life came to an end. 0:02:18.464,0:02:21.414 Individuals became more autonomous[br]from the collective. 0:02:21.414,0:02:25.533 Instead of huge cauldrons, smaller[br]pots were now required. 0:02:25.533,0:02:28.353 Now that small pot was put on[br]the stove. 0:02:28.353,0:02:30.683 Then they needed a name[br]for it. 0:02:30.683,0:02:33.913 What human beings do at times like[br]these is that 0:02:33.913,0:02:36.623 the name they had given to the[br]similar entity, 0:02:36.623,0:02:40.868 they give a name to the new one which[br]shows that influence 0:02:40.868,0:02:45.320 by clashing, opposing, contradicting,[br]or drawing similarities between them. 0:02:45.320,0:02:48.460 Either they see it as distinct from[br]the other entity, 0:02:48.460,0:02:54.430 or as separate from it, or he views[br]it in accordance to that thing. 0:02:54.430,0:02:58.430 So when they saw the smaller pot,[br]they thought why give it a new name? 0:02:58.430,0:03:01.500 This is simply a smaller 'deg'. 0:03:03.475,0:03:06.785 And that's how it was called[br]'degcha' (small pot). 0:03:07.968,0:03:13.068 So when we say the word 'degcha',[br]what is its meaning? 0:03:13.068,0:03:15.398 It means a small deg (caludron). 0:03:17.231,0:03:22.041 We were teaching and learning, and[br]when you were not familiar with Urdu, 0:03:22.041,0:03:27.001 and you read the word 'degcha', you[br]were told it means a small cauldron. 0:03:27.001,0:03:29.391 Did you imagine a 'degcha' in your[br]mind at all? 0:03:29.391,0:03:31.071 No, you didn't visualize it. 0:03:31.071,0:03:35.591 You think of 'deg', and you also[br]imagine something smaller. 0:03:35.591,0:03:41.631 Now we take you home, and showed[br]you a small pot on the stove. 0:03:41.631,0:03:45.631 This 'degcha' is actually a referent which[br]carries the meaning of small cauldron, deg 0:03:45.631,0:03:48.851 but now it is lying right[br]in front of us. 0:03:48.851,0:03:52.171 So there are numerous words in[br]a language, 0:03:52.171,0:03:57.951 which do not make their referent[br]clear with regards to their meaning. 0:03:57.951,0:04:04.001 Misdaaq is actually that utensil called[br]degcha, which is put on your stove. 0:04:04.001,0:04:06.991 And for that, we did not have[br]a word initially. 0:04:06.991,0:04:09.021 There was no separate word that[br]existed a priori. 0:04:09.021,0:04:11.211 We only had the word 'deg'. 0:04:11.211,0:04:16.031 We picked another concept of smaller[br]and bigger things from our mind, 0:04:16.031,0:04:18.811 and affixed the term for 'smaller'[br]with 'deg'. 0:04:18.811,0:04:23.661 In Persian 'cha' implies smaller.[br]So 'degcha' means a smaller 'deg'. 0:04:23.661,0:04:28.481 So we took that, affixed it with deg,[br]and that created a meaning. 0:04:28.481,0:04:34.471 A smaller pot. But whichever way you[br]may use this word degcha, 0:04:34.471,0:04:37.761 even now you can see, if someone asks[br]you what is 'degcha'? 0:04:37.761,0:04:41.201 You will reply with 'a small deg'. So you[br]will convey the meaning for sure. 0:04:41.201,0:04:43.391 But it does not determine[br]that actual referent. 0:04:43.391,0:04:46.191 Referent will be when you are[br]shown a degcha and you will know, 0:04:46.191,0:04:47.801 this is what it is. 0:04:47.801,0:04:50.931 Otherwise it is possible, you would[br]have thought a smaller deg to be 0:04:50.931,0:04:53.311 something just marginally smaller[br]than a deg! 0:04:53.311,0:04:57.051 You might not be able to imagine[br]that degcha which you use on the stove. 0:04:57.051,0:05:00.131 So this is the difference between[br]meaning and referent. 0:05:00.131,0:05:04.531 Imagine for a while that one of you[br]went to the planet Mars. 0:05:04.531,0:05:08.341 And there he saw a living[br]creature. 0:05:08.341,0:05:12.471 Such a creature he had never seen before,[br]either among the birds or the animals, 0:05:12.471,0:05:15.611 and certainly not among[br]human beings. 0:05:15.611,0:05:20.191 He wants to come back and tell[br]you that he saw a living being on Mars. 0:05:20.191,0:05:22.781 What way would he adopt to[br]convey that? 0:05:22.781,0:05:27.031 What that person will do is that whatever[br]he saw there, 0:05:27.031,0:05:30.441 its referent he had seen with his[br]own eyes. 0:05:30.441,0:05:34.131 But he has no word to convey[br]what he witnessed. 0:05:34.131,0:05:36.941 Hence the question of a word and[br]its meaning does not arise. 0:05:36.941,0:05:39.731 He is standing on Mars and he[br]saw a creature. 0:05:39.731,0:05:42.041 But no word exists in our language[br]for that creature. 0:05:42.041,0:05:44.825 The reason for that is that the words[br]are created 0:05:44.825,0:05:48.341 when a thing comes into existence or[br]an idea comes into our mind. 0:05:48.341,0:05:51.641 And after that human beings produce[br]some specific sounds to refer to it, 0:05:51.641,0:05:53.951 after that a common consciousness[br]of the thing is born among them. 0:05:53.951,0:05:56.141 And then after a few centuries,[br]the word is born. 0:05:56.141,0:05:59.331 This is how it happens right? But this[br]process didn't happen in that case. 0:05:59.331,0:06:05.441 He was simply picked up at night and[br]then dropped on Mars, 0:06:05.441,0:06:08.701 where he saw a creature. When he[br]saw that being, 0:06:08.701,0:06:14.191 it did not resemble any animal,[br]nor a bird. 0:06:14.191,0:06:16.711 So there is nothing exactly like[br]that creature. 0:06:16.711,0:06:20.351 He had seen birds here, he had seen[br]animals, he had seen human beings. 0:06:20.351,0:06:23.831 But the creature was like none of them,[br]it was entirely a different being he saw. 0:06:23.831,0:06:27.361 So the creature he saw there, there is[br]no word that exists for it. 0:06:27.361,0:06:30.051 And since there is no word that exists,[br]hence no meaning exists either. 0:06:30.051,0:06:32.831 But the evidence was certainly[br]before his eyes. 0:06:32.831,0:06:34.581 So that entity is before his eyes. 0:06:34.581,0:06:36.961 He came back from Mars onto[br]the Earth. 0:06:36.961,0:06:40.961 After coming back here, he wants to[br]tell you what he saw. 0:06:40.961,0:06:44.961 So what would he do? He would actually[br]find some entity 0:06:44.961,0:06:47.691 similar to the one he saw in[br]order to convey its likeness. 0:06:47.691,0:06:49.841 This is what he would do right?[br]And after that, 0:06:49.841,0:06:51.941 when he would find a similar[br]referent for the entity, 0:06:51.941,0:06:54.371 then the objects which are found[br]here on Earth, 0:06:54.371,0:06:57.551 there are words as well as meanings[br]for them. 0:06:57.551,0:07:01.901 So that word and meaning which are[br]available here for a similar entity, 0:07:01.901,0:07:06.721 he would use them with some changes,[br]to refer to the creature he saw. 0:07:06.721,0:07:10.331 That this is what I had seen.[br]He would say that right? 0:07:10.331,0:07:12.341 So now the entity referred to is clear. 0:07:12.341,0:07:15.411 Now you understand what is[br]the meaning and what is the referent? 0:07:15.411,0:07:20.761 Misdaaq here are some creatures, such[br]as birds, animals, and human beings. 0:07:20.761,0:07:23.161 For them, some words have[br]been created. 0:07:23.161,0:07:27.051 For instance, 'humans', or 'lion'.[br]These words have meanings. 0:07:27.051,0:07:28.681 And we are aware of those[br]meanings. 0:07:28.681,0:07:31.351 On the other planet there is a referent,[br]a creature, 0:07:31.351,0:07:33.681 for which neither word nor[br]meaning exists. 0:07:33.681,0:07:38.471 So to a referent for what it is, and[br]then to interpret it by closest likeness, 0:07:38.471,0:07:41.431 is something we have no option but[br]to do. Please understand this. 0:07:41.431,0:07:44.681 What a meaning is, what a word is,[br]and what the referent is. 0:07:44.681,0:07:48.741 If you have understood this, let us now[br]see what issues this gentleman faced. 0:07:48.741,0:07:52.917 This is Imam Razi, he says 'wa ammal[br]muhaqqiq al munsif 0:07:52.917,0:07:56.557 fainna hu yahmir ul amar fil ayaat[br]ala aqsaam salaasa.' 0:07:57.686,0:08:02.766 That is, the person who is a scholar[br]and a researcher as well, 0:08:02.766,0:08:05.766 and is not carrying any particular[br]biases with him, 0:08:05.766,0:08:08.749 and is a person who stands[br]with justice. 0:08:08.749,0:08:15.809 Imam Razi says that he divides the[br]verses of the Quran into three categories. 0:08:15.809,0:08:19.479 So that scholar will divide the verses of[br]the Quran into three categories. 0:08:19.479,0:08:23.479 'Ahduha maa yata'aqqadu zahiruha[br]bil dala'il al aqliya'. 0:08:23.533,0:08:28.163 Now since according to him, verbal[br]evidence is worth nothing, 0:08:28.163,0:08:32.383 therefore the first category of the[br]verses of the Quran is that 0:08:32.383,0:08:38.600 whose apparent meaning, i.e. the obvious[br]meaning which comes from the word, 0:08:38.600,0:08:42.600 that becomes confirmed even through[br]a logical argument. 0:08:44.126,0:08:48.708 So a rational argument, and whatever[br]meaning you understand from the word, 0:08:48.708,0:08:51.478 even though they had come through[br]isolated report and conjectural. 0:08:51.478,0:08:53.738 But now even a rational argument is[br]there in its support. 0:08:53.738,0:08:57.118 So that rational argument, along with[br]that conjectural meaning, 0:08:57.118,0:09:00.348 what has been done to it? It has[br]made it categorical and clear. 0:09:01.206,0:09:03.246 The word itself not going to do[br]anything. 0:09:03.246,0:09:06.606 At most, it would have given testimony[br]of its meaning by speculation. 0:09:06.606,0:09:10.606 So he says 'maa yata'aqqadu zahiruha[br]bil dala'il al aqliya'. 0:09:10.606,0:09:14.366 So the apparent meaning that the words[br]were conveying, 0:09:14.366,0:09:17.946 and the moment you read the words,[br]you understood some meaning from it. 0:09:17.946,0:09:21.946 Along with that meaning, some rational[br]arguments also stand now. 0:09:21.946,0:09:24.626 And what did the both of them[br]do together? 0:09:24.626,0:09:26.806 They gave it a clear certainty. 0:09:26.806,0:09:30.806 Now this issue, 'fazaakahu al[br]muhkamu haqqa'. 0:09:30.806,0:09:34.806 So this is then the 'real'[br]muhkam. 0:09:34.806,0:09:39.337 That verse, whose apparent meaning[br]conveyed by the words is understood 0:09:39.337,0:09:41.337 as 'wa awal wahla', that is,[br]immediately upon reading it. 0:09:41.337,0:09:43.977 If you are familiar with the[br]language, you read the verse, 0:09:43.977,0:09:46.747 and from that you understood the[br]apparent subject matter. 0:09:46.747,0:09:49.397 You joined that subject matter with[br]a rational argument, 0:09:49.397,0:09:52.917 so it is as if it were equivalent. That is,[br]the rational deduction says the same thing 0:09:52.917,0:09:54.447 which is being conveyed by[br]the words at first glance. 0:09:54.447,0:09:57.107 And the apparent meaning of the words is[br]the same as conveyed by logical reasoning. 0:09:57.107,0:10:00.107 So when both of these things become[br]mutually inclusive, what is this then? 0:10:00.107,0:10:05.304 'Fazaakahu al muhkumu haqqa'.[br]So this becomes the real muhkam verse. 0:10:05.304,0:10:09.883 'Wasaani ha allazee kaamit at-dala'il ul[br]qaate ala imtanaayi zawahir riha.' 0:10:09.883,0:10:13.313 Now another category is born.[br]Which was that 0:10:13.313,0:10:17.313 you derived an apparent meaning[br]from the words. 0:10:17.313,0:10:19.303 It is this same action which was[br]done in the first category. 0:10:19.303,0:10:22.363 You understood an apparent meaning[br]from the words. 0:10:23.449,0:10:26.469 There is no difference in this first step.[br]What had happened in previous instance? 0:10:26.469,0:10:28.959 You had understood an apparent meaning[br]from words. 0:10:28.959,0:10:31.211 Rational arguments ratified that[br]deduction. 0:10:31.211,0:10:32.911 Here too, the same thing happened. 0:10:32.911,0:10:35.051 You understood an apparent meaning[br]from the words. 0:10:35.051,0:10:38.481 But then rational arguments stood[br]against your deduction here. 0:10:38.481,0:10:43.301 So the rational arguments negated the[br]apparent meanings you were understanding. 0:10:45.102,0:10:48.252 'Allazee kamit at-dala'il ul qaate'ala[br]imtanaayi zawahir riha.' 0:10:48.252,0:10:50.432 And these rational arguments are[br]absolutely categorical. 0:10:50.432,0:10:53.182 So this is absolutely clear that[br]these apparent meanings 0:10:53.182,0:10:54.982 cannot be the correct deduction[br]from these words. 0:10:54.982,0:10:58.112 He says 'fazzakahu allathii yuhukumu[br]fiihi bi anna muraadillah ta'ala 0:10:58.112,0:11:03.562 ghairu zahirahi'. This aspect[br]which is there, 0:11:03.562,0:11:07.082 about this too we can say with[br]complete certainty that 0:11:07.082,0:11:09.952 the apparent meanings which are[br]drawn from these words here 0:11:09.952,0:11:12.322 is absolutely not what Allah[br]intended to convey. 0:11:12.322,0:11:15.222 So this too has become clear. 0:11:15.222,0:11:17.512 The apparent meanings which one[br]was deriving from the words, 0:11:17.512,0:11:19.622 since the rational arguments are[br]standing against it, 0:11:19.622,0:11:22.872 therefore, this too has become[br]muhkam. 0:11:22.872,0:11:26.872 Because the negation of its apparent[br]meaning has become certain, 0:11:26.872,0:11:28.642 based on rational arguments. 0:11:28.642,0:11:32.422 'Wa saalisuha allazee laa yujid[br]mislu haazid dala'il alaa tarfa 0:11:32.422,0:11:33.912 sabuutihi min tafa'ihi'. 0:11:33.912,0:11:38.782 And the third category is when[br]no rational arguments exists 0:11:38.782,0:11:42.782 either to ratify the apparent meanings,[br]or to refute them. 0:11:42.928,0:11:47.868 So neither do the logical arguments[br]confirm those meaning, nor reject them. 0:11:49.040,0:11:53.070 'fayakoon min haqqahii tawaqqafi'.[br]What would you do in this case? 0:11:53.070,0:11:54.770 Now he says that you just have[br]to make peace with it, 0:11:54.770,0:11:56.830 because it is not possible to say[br]anything with certainty about this. 0:11:56.830,0:11:58.660 There is no other option but[br]to be patient about it. 0:11:58.660,0:12:01.160 'Wa yakoona zalika mutashaabihan.' 0:12:02.183,0:12:06.313 Now we would say that this has[br]become mutashaabih. 0:12:06.313,0:12:10.883 Actually he has to make clear how[br]do we determine something is mutashaabih. 0:12:10.883,0:12:12.963 So see what way he adopted[br]to do that. 0:12:12.963,0:12:16.673 The way he chose was that if we[br]read a verse, 0:12:16.673,0:12:19.503 an outward and apparent meaning of[br]it was understood by us. 0:12:19.503,0:12:21.513 We went to seek rational evidence[br]for it, 0:12:21.513,0:12:24.345 which absolutely confirmed the meaning[br]we had understood. 0:12:24.345,0:12:26.495 This becomes muhkam then. 0:12:26.495,0:12:31.665 Then we read a verse, whose apparent[br]meaning was understood by us. 0:12:31.665,0:12:33.915 Rational arguments completely rejected[br]that inference, 0:12:33.915,0:12:36.395 making it clear that what we understood[br]cannot be the meaning of the words. 0:12:36.395,0:12:38.495 In fact the meaning would be the[br]opposite of what we inferred. 0:12:38.495,0:12:40.005 So our understanding was incorrect,[br]and the correct was its opposite. 0:12:40.005,0:12:42.522 So this too is muhkam, for it[br]has become clear. 0:12:42.522,0:12:46.412 Now if we read a verse, and understand a[br]meaning that was apparent from the words. 0:12:46.412,0:12:49.852 But the rational arguments do not prove[br]or determine it, 0:12:49.852,0:12:52.842 nor do they reject our inference.[br]Neither of these things can be done. 0:12:52.842,0:12:55.552 So what would we do? We would give up[br]and state that 0:12:55.552,0:12:58.342 no statement can be made with certainty[br]about its meaning. 0:12:58.342,0:13:00.702 So he says 'yakoona zalika[br]mutashaabihan.' 0:13:00.702,0:13:02.092 In what sense is this used? 0:13:02.092,0:13:04.472 'Bemaana annal amara ishtaba'a[br]fii'. 0:13:04.472,0:13:07.446 The case here has become doubtful[br]and ambiguous. 0:13:07.446,0:13:10.526 As I had said before, in what[br]sense is he using this term? 0:13:10.526,0:13:12.046 So the case here has become[br]doubtful. 0:13:12.046,0:13:14.678 'Walam yatamayii' zahdul janabain[br]ilaakhir'. 0:13:14.678,0:13:16.968 Now there are actually two[br]paths in this. 0:13:16.968,0:13:19.738 One is the apparent one, and the[br]second is the one contrary to it. 0:13:19.738,0:13:22.498 In this, it became impossible to[br]distinguish either of them. 0:13:22.498,0:13:26.118 So when it is no longer possible to make[br]a distinction between the two paths, 0:13:26.118,0:13:30.066 that makes the words mutashaabih.[br]This is the statement by Imam Razi. 0:13:30.066,0:13:34.066 Now naturally, since he is a rationalist[br]scholar, thus he has conveyed it 0:13:34.066,0:13:36.526 on the basis of a logical[br]deduction. 0:13:36.526,0:13:39.296 Saying that whichever verses of the Quran[br]you will be reading, 0:13:39.296,0:13:41.056 you must remember that[br]first point, 0:13:41.056,0:13:43.056 about which we have already[br]discussed before this. 0:13:43.056,0:13:46.666 That the words of the Quran cannot[br]convey their own meanings 0:13:46.666,0:13:48.746 with absolutely certainty. 0:13:48.746,0:13:53.016 Therefore we only understand the[br]apparent meanings of its words. 0:13:53.016,0:13:55.546 If the rational evidence supports it,[br]the meaning becomes muhkam. 0:13:55.546,0:13:57.956 If the rational arguments negate[br]that meaning, 0:13:57.956,0:14:00.454 if it is pointing to something contrary[br]to its outward meaning, 0:14:00.454,0:14:03.016 then again it is muhkam.[br][Student] But then what is muhkam here, 0:14:03.016,0:14:05.296 if the meaning has been negated?[br][Ghamidi] That which has been negated, 0:14:05.296,0:14:06.986 that meaning becomes muhkam[br]or clear. 0:14:06.986,0:14:12.376 For instance, you say that lion is[br]the king of the jungle. 0:14:12.376,0:14:15.697 Rational argument also says that yes,[br]this refers to that very lion 0:14:15.697,0:14:18.647 which is found in the forest. Now[br]this has become muhkam. 0:14:18.647,0:14:21.707 You say, 'who is the lion that approaches[br]and makes the battleground shudder?' 0:14:21.707,0:14:25.707 Rational inference comes and says no,[br]this is not the lion of the forest. 0:14:26.587,0:14:28.887 So the metaphor has become[br]clear, hasn't it? 0:14:28.887,0:14:31.367 Since the literal meaning was rejected,[br]it makes the other aspect certain. 0:14:31.367,0:14:33.207 This is a simple example I have[br]used to explain this to you. 0:14:33.207,0:14:37.007 The example Imam Razi wants to give, that[br]would be a little too complex for you. 0:14:37.007,0:14:39.337 There is an entire debate about takleef-e[br]ma laa yutaq (unbearable trouble) 0:14:39.337,0:14:40.437 that he has done. 0:14:40.437,0:14:42.347 [Student] Has any reference been taken[br]from the Quran? 0:14:42.347,0:14:44.637 [Ghamidi] For instance, he borrows a[br]reference from the Quran, 0:14:44.637,0:14:46.117 now that you have brought it up, 0:14:46.117,0:14:49.037 he says that the Quran says 'ya[br]yukkalifulla nafsan illa wus'aha.' 0:14:49.037,0:14:50.867 This is his own argumentation. 0:14:50.867,0:14:54.337 That Allah never burdens anyone more[br]than he can bear. 0:14:54.337,0:14:56.087 Outwardly, this is what the meaning[br]seems to be. 0:14:56.087,0:14:57.547 This is what the verse is saying. 0:14:57.547,0:15:01.187 But Imam Razi says that rational arguments[br]are testifying to something contrary. 0:15:01.187,0:15:03.827 Rational evidence is refuting[br]this apparent meaning. 0:15:03.827,0:15:05.957 The evidence of the Quran itself[br]are pointing to something contrary. 0:15:05.957,0:15:07.467 Categorical arguments are also[br]standing against this. 0:15:07.467,0:15:10.487 Allah does burden people more than[br]they can bear (takleef-e ma laa yutaq). 0:15:10.487,0:15:13.447 Allah did say that Abu Lahab would not[br]become a believer, 0:15:13.447,0:15:15.683 and yet commanded him to[br]become one! 0:15:15.683,0:15:17.493 I am giving you an example. 0:15:17.493,0:15:18.923 So Allah does burden people. 0:15:18.923,0:15:21.618 Allah made people stand and stiffened[br]their backs, 0:15:21.618,0:15:23.778 and then commanded them to bow! 0:15:23.778,0:15:25.748 This is mentioned about the Day[br]of Judgment right? 0:15:25.748,0:15:27.408 So Allah does give people[br]unbearable burderns. 0:15:27.408,0:15:30.428 When it is proven that he does do[br]that, it means that the meaning of 0:15:30.428,0:15:32.788 'la yakullifa nafsan illa[br]wus'aha', 0:15:32.788,0:15:34.778 which appears apparent[br]and outwardly, 0:15:34.778,0:15:37.408 the intention is to convey the exact[br]opposite meaning. 0:15:37.408,0:15:40.429 This is certain, so it becomes[br]muhkam. 0:15:40.429,0:15:45.389 So this is his way. Then he says that[br]where either of these situations has come, 0:15:45.389,0:15:49.699 that either the apparent meaning which[br]the words are conveying, 0:15:49.699,0:15:53.469 rational arguments are also confirming[br]it, then the case is closed, it is muhkam. 0:15:53.469,0:15:55.839 But if the rational evidence has[br]negated the meaning inferred, 0:15:55.839,0:15:58.289 meaning that he is saying no[br]doubt remains here, 0:15:58.289,0:16:00.609 and it is certain that Allah in fact does[br]give takleef-e ma laa yutaq, 0:16:00.609,0:16:02.769 then the meaning conveyed outwardly[br]by the words are incorrect, 0:16:02.769,0:16:06.049 the intention is actually to convey the[br]exact opposite of it, we are certain of it 0:16:06.049,0:16:08.939 When we are sure of that, and Imam Razi[br]of course was certain of it. 0:16:08.939,0:16:10.889 I don't know if you are convinced of[br]it or not though. 0:16:10.889,0:16:12.909 But when one is convinced and sure,[br]then the case has come to a close. 0:16:12.909,0:16:17.131 So this too is muhkam then.[br]But if both of these cases in not certain, 0:16:17.131,0:16:20.611 and one is not able to clarify if the[br]rational evidence is affirming 0:16:20.611,0:16:23.231 or rejecting it, then it falls under[br]mutashaabih. 0:16:23.231,0:16:26.930 Because now the situation is doubtful[br]and unclear, we don't know its meaning. 0:16:26.930,0:16:30.690 So the Quran is correct in saying that[br]if a situation of this kind arises, 0:16:30.690,0:16:34.770 according to Imam Razi, then that[br]word becomes doubtful, 0:16:34.770,0:16:36.370 whose meaning we cannot[br]establish. 0:16:36.370,0:16:40.170 This attempt he has made to clarify[br]this, is to be able to tell you 0:16:40.170,0:16:43.260 where to draw the line between muhkam[br]and mutashaabih. 0:16:44.512,0:16:47.232 So this is how he has drawn[br]a distinguishing line. 0:16:47.232,0:16:48.672 The line has been drawn. 0:16:54.743,0:16:57.353 [Ghamidi] No I am only telling you[br]about his stance. 0:16:57.353,0:17:00.133 I am not passing a judgment on[br]whether his position is right or not. 0:17:00.133,0:17:03.883 I am simply telling you that this is[br]his opinion which he states about it. 0:17:03.883,0:17:07.793 These are the issues he is facing,[br]and this is his opinion regarding it. 0:17:07.793,0:17:10.473 I am not saying whether his position[br]is correct or not. 0:17:10.473,0:17:13.793 Nor is it our concern right now.[br]Our purpose is only to understand 0:17:13.793,0:17:16.043 what he means by the category[br]of 'mutashaabih'. 0:17:16.043,0:17:17.873 That is what I have tried to[br]explain to you, 0:17:17.873,0:17:19.833 what exactly is meant by[br]mutashaabih? 0:17:19.833,0:17:25.163 Now see that it is not as if this is[br]where the situation ends with Imam Razi. 0:17:30.639,0:17:31.649 [Ghamidi] Yes? 0:17:32.379,0:17:33.989 [Ghamidi] With rational evidence. 0:17:33.989,0:17:37.029 He says that with rational evidence it[br]is absolutely clear for us that 0:17:37.029,0:17:41.331 this is not what this means. But[br]in fact it means the exact opposite. 0:17:41.331,0:17:43.901 So now we have to accept it.[br][Student] So it means the opposite. 0:17:43.901,0:17:46.591 [Ghamidi] Yes we have to take the[br]opposite of the meaning it conveys. 0:17:47.511,0:17:48.291 Yes? 0:17:51.601,0:17:54.101 No that is not what rational[br]evidence means. 0:17:54.101,0:17:58.011 Rational evidence means that he will[br]deduce from a lot of other sources as well 0:17:58.011,0:18:00.541 and then they will also do a[br]logical deduction in that matter, 0:18:00.541,0:18:04.471 that God is omnipotent, and Allah does[br]not accept any constraints about Himself. 0:18:04.471,0:18:06.581 It is problematic to assume that. 0:18:06.581,0:18:09.851 Hence when He burdens people, and[br]since He is capable of everything, 0:18:09.851,0:18:12.651 therefore He can give unbearable[br]burdens to people too. 0:18:12.651,0:18:15.441 So you would not have the last word[br]even in rational arguments. 0:18:15.441,0:18:19.441 [Student] So this is what one can[br]be negated, his opinion can be refuted. 0:18:19.441,0:18:22.971 [Ghamidi] Yes of course.[br][Student] What is the criterion for this? 0:18:22.971,0:18:25.231 [Ghamidi] This is something you would[br]have to debate with Imam Razi himself. 0:18:25.231,0:18:28.261 I have only told you about what he[br]says about this matter. 0:18:28.261,0:18:32.261 If I delve into it further to talk about[br]whether his opinion is correct or not, 0:18:32.261,0:18:35.211 then I would actually be deviating from[br]our topic. 0:18:35.211,0:18:38.501 See the thing is, Zamakhshari[br]for instance says exactly the same thing. 0:18:38.501,0:18:41.732 He says, 'muhkamaat uhkimat ibaaratuha[br]bi an hufizat min al ehtimaal 0:18:41.732,0:18:46.162 wal ishtibaah'. That is, what are the[br]muhkam verses? 0:18:46.162,0:18:50.342 Those are the verses whose interpretation[br]has been safeguarded in a way 0:18:50.342,0:18:53.092 'bi an hufizat min al ehtimaal[br]wal ishtibaah.' 0:18:53.092,0:18:55.992 That is, now neither any doubt[br]nor ambiguity remains. 0:18:55.992,0:18:58.202 So the opposite of ambiguity. 0:18:58.202,0:19:00.512 The text is no longer ambiguous. 0:19:00.512,0:19:03.512 The subject matter is no longer[br]doubtful, it has become muhkam. 0:19:03.512,0:19:08.082 Mutashaabihaat? Zamakhshari says[br]these are ones which are ambiguous. 0:19:08.082,0:19:11.992 This is how he translates it, that it is [br]doubtful, carrying multiple possibilities. 0:19:11.992,0:19:16.362 That in which there is uncertainty in[br]determining the meaning, 0:19:16.362,0:19:18.952 and in which there is apprehension[br]about the meaning. 0:19:18.952,0:19:21.972 So this is how he explains the term. 0:19:21.972,0:19:25.642 So this means that in both these scholars,[br]and Zamakhshari was a Mutazilite, 0:19:25.642,0:19:27.382 and Imam Razi belonged to the[br]Ash'ari school of thought. 0:19:27.382,0:19:28.912 He is an Imam of the Ash'aris. 0:19:28.912,0:19:31.242 And despite being an Ash'ari and[br]Mutazilite, 0:19:31.242,0:19:33.372 there was no difference in their opinions[br]in this matter. 0:19:33.372,0:19:35.112 Because both of them presented[br]their arguments, 0:19:35.112,0:19:36.532 and there was no difference in[br]their conclusions. 0:19:36.532,0:19:39.142 Now see, there is Maulana Shabbir[br]Ahmad Usmani, 0:19:39.142,0:19:43.682 and naturally among our esteemed[br]scholars of the contemporary era, 0:19:43.682,0:19:47.362 especially those of the classical and[br]traditionalist school of thought, 0:19:47.362,0:19:49.192 he is among the great scholars[br]of that worldview. 0:19:49.192,0:19:52.405 He too has written a note on this. 0:19:52.405,0:19:55.265 He says that you must look at it[br]this way, 0:19:55.265,0:19:58.225 that in the Holy Quran, and in fact in[br]all the revealed Books, 0:19:58.225,0:20:01.405 there are two kinds of verses[br]which are found. 0:20:01.405,0:20:05.405 One is the kind whose intention[br]is known and established. 0:20:05.924,0:20:09.424 Whether it is because, with regards[br]to the vocabulary and style, 0:20:09.424,0:20:13.124 there is no doubt and ambiguity[br]in the words. 0:20:13.124,0:20:16.274 Nor does their interpretation imply[br]multiple meanings. 0:20:16.274,0:20:22.524 So if we have a verse, its intention[br]is known and established. 0:20:22.524,0:20:26.234 In which aspects? Well, with regards[br]to its vocabulary and linguistic style, 0:20:26.234,0:20:27.825 there is no ambiguity in[br]its words. 0:20:27.825,0:20:30.235 But since he does not agree with[br]what Imam Razi says, 0:20:30.235,0:20:31.975 therefore he has accepted this[br]approach. 0:20:31.975,0:20:34.425 That with regards to the vocabulary,[br]style, and grammar, 0:20:34.425,0:20:37.305 we are absolutely clear in what its[br]subject matter is. 0:20:37.305,0:20:39.315 There is no doubt or ambiguity[br]in its words, 0:20:39.315,0:20:41.585 nor does their interpretation imply[br]multiple meanings. 0:20:41.585,0:20:44.685 And it is also not the case that out[br]of all the meanings known to us, 0:20:44.685,0:20:47.125 it might be said that this verse could[br]also mean something else. 0:20:47.125,0:20:49.675 This is also not the case. It can[br]only have one meaning. 0:20:49.675,0:20:51.785 Nor is it that that which was[br]considered reasonable, 0:20:51.785,0:20:53.725 is actually against the universally[br]accepted rules. 0:20:53.725,0:20:55.528 This is that same point. 0:20:55.528,0:21:00.948 So the intentionality of the verse,[br]that which was understood from it, 0:21:00.948,0:21:03.808 is not against the commonly[br]accepted rules. 0:21:03.808,0:21:06.658 Here he has not specifically mentioned[br]reason, but that is his reference. 0:21:06.658,0:21:11.738 If the meaning is against[br]the universal rules or reason, 0:21:11.738,0:21:15.018 if this is the case, then he says that[br]it becomes muhkam. 0:21:15.991,0:21:19.346 Or else because, and this is the other[br]category of muhkam, 0:21:19.346,0:21:21.746 or else because in the text and the[br]terms used, 0:21:21.746,0:21:24.686 even though many other meanings[br]could have been implied instead, 0:21:24.686,0:21:27.416 so with regards to its vocabulary,[br]multiple meanings could have been implied. 0:21:27.416,0:21:30.796 But the detailed proofs given by[br]the law giver (the Prophet). 0:21:31.940,0:21:36.470 It means the Prophet (pbuh) mentioned[br]it somewhere in the Hadith, 0:21:36.470,0:21:38.430 and it gained fame and[br]reputation. 0:21:38.430,0:21:41.000 This is a specific terminology,[br]nusuus-e mustafiiza. 0:21:41.000,0:21:43.350 Or the consensus of the[br](infallible) Ummah. 0:21:45.144,0:21:49.164 Or the Ummah unanimously agreed on it,[br]and the collective Ummah is infallible. 0:21:50.552,0:21:54.023 Or the common, universally accepted[br]principles of religion 0:21:54.023,0:21:57.841 has categorically established that the[br]intention of the speaker was not that, 0:21:57.841,0:22:01.031 but is this. So the apparent meaning[br]which we understood, that is correct. 0:22:01.031,0:22:03.821 Such verses are called muhkamaat. 0:22:03.821,0:22:10.651 So he has presented that opinion in[br]the contemporary style. 0:22:10.651,0:22:13.711 The second kind of verses are[br]called mutashaabihaat, 0:22:13.711,0:22:18.619 that is, the intention and meaning of[br]which is not determined 0:22:18.619,0:22:20.813 because of some doubts and[br]ambiguities. 0:22:20.813,0:22:22.403 See the words have been repeated[br]by him. 0:22:22.403,0:22:26.403 Doubtful and ambiguous. This is[br]how he has explained ambiguous verse. 0:22:26.403,0:22:31.358 So this is the exact same explanation,[br]except with the rational element. 0:22:31.358,0:22:34.508 That part he has conveyed in the[br]end in another way. 0:22:34.508,0:22:38.038 But you can see that here too,[br]the meaning has been established 0:22:38.038,0:22:40.708 either through the words, or the[br]grammatical style. 0:22:40.708,0:22:44.028 And if that has not happened and[br]there was some apprehension in meaning, 0:22:44.028,0:22:46.448 and the Quran itself could not[br]establish it, 0:22:47.932,0:22:52.312 it was determined by the Prophet's[br]clear proofs, confirming the meaning. 0:22:52.312,0:22:55.162 The consensus of the Ummah determined[br]that this is the meaning. 0:22:55.162,0:22:57.812 Or it was derived from the generally[br]accepted principles of the religion. 0:22:57.812,0:23:00.722 The Quran commanded that the man or[br]woman who commits adultery, 0:23:00.722,0:23:02.762 should be punished with a[br]hundred lashes. 0:23:02.762,0:23:05.402 Now naturally one understands from it[br]that whoever commits adultery, 0:23:05.402,0:23:07.112 should be punished with a[br]hundred lashes. 0:23:07.112,0:23:09.712 Then nusuus-e-mustafiiza came from[br]the Prophet (pbuh) 0:23:09.712,0:23:12.482 and told us that it only refers[br]to a bachelor. 0:23:14.899,0:23:17.439 The Ummah unanimously concurred[br]with this. 0:23:19.069,0:23:22.499 So we got nusuus-e-mustafiiza, as well[br]as the consensus of the common people. 0:23:22.499,0:23:24.689 Now the apparent meaning which was[br]understood from the words, 0:23:24.689,0:23:26.399 would you accept that? 0:23:28.021,0:23:30.431 You should not accept it based[br]on this principle. 0:23:30.431,0:23:32.591 Is the matter clear from this[br]example? 0:23:32.591,0:23:37.341 The Quran said that whichever person[br]commits adultery, man or woman, 0:23:37.341,0:23:39.791 should be punished with a[br]hundred lashes. 0:23:39.791,0:23:42.991 For when you read this verse, the[br]apparent meaning is of course that 0:23:42.991,0:23:45.153 whoever commits adultery should[br]be given a hundred lashes. 0:23:45.153,0:23:48.003 There is no mention of an unwed or[br]a married person here. 0:23:48.003,0:23:52.833 But what happened then? As soon as[br]we derived this apparent meaning from it, 0:23:52.833,0:23:56.173 along with it came some nusuus-e[br]mustafiiza, 0:23:56.173,0:23:58.113 that is, some famous narrations[br]came from the Prophet. 0:23:58.113,0:24:02.733 They informed us that no, this verse is[br]referring only to an unwed adulterer. 0:24:04.435,0:24:07.715 The consensus of the common people,[br]i.e. the Ummah, agreed with it. 0:24:07.715,0:24:11.085 And other rules of jurisprudence also[br]came up in its support. 0:24:11.085,0:24:14.415 After that, the apparent meaning which was[br]derived from the words, 0:24:14.415,0:24:18.295 we did not accept that meaning.[br]This is what he is saying. 0:24:18.295,0:24:21.765 Please do not think from this that[br]I am advocating it as correct. 0:24:21.765,0:24:24.475 I am only giving you an example[br]that this is how he will take it. 0:24:24.475,0:24:26.895 What was the difficulty he was[br]faced with? 0:24:26.895,0:24:30.415 The difficulty was that the apparent[br]meaning conveyed by the words of Quran, 0:24:30.415,0:24:33.105 naturally there are textual evidences[br]contrary to it. 0:24:33.105,0:24:35.065 So this is the way he adopted[br]to deal with it. 0:24:35.065,0:24:36.325 That this is how it will become[br]muhkam. 0:24:36.325,0:24:38.316 This is the case with Shabbir Ahmad[br]Usmani. 0:24:38.316,0:24:42.205 Now you can see, one of our scholars[br]from the previous generation, 0:24:42.205,0:24:47.955 Maulana Syed Abul A'la Maududi.[br]He is also saying the exact same thing. 0:24:47.955,0:24:51.745 Muhkam verses refer to those verses[br]whose language is completely clear, 0:24:51.745,0:24:55.495 in which there is no ambiguity while[br]determining their meaning, 0:24:55.495,0:24:59.075 whose words testify their intentionality[br]and meaning clearly and categorically, 0:24:59.075,0:25:02.694 and are hardly possible for anyone to make[br]them a practice board 0:25:02.694,0:25:04.604 for expansive interpretations. 0:25:04.604,0:25:08.254 Since he is a writer, he has presented the[br]matter so simply. 0:25:08.254,0:25:11.464 Mutashaabihaat, that is, those verses in[br]whose meaning there is a possibility 0:25:11.464,0:25:12.994 of ambiguity and doubt. 0:25:12.994,0:25:15.494 This is how he has defined muhkam[br]and mutashaabihaat. 0:25:15.494,0:25:18.724 So one can see in this matter that[br]'muttafiq gar deed raay bu ali bayad 0:25:18.724,0:25:20.194 Everyone holds the same opinion. 0:25:20.194,0:25:23.924 There is no particular difference in how[br]scholars approach this. 0:25:23.924,0:25:30.150 So you can say that in our tradition, this[br]is the position of the classical scholars. 0:25:30.150,0:25:33.240 Now about this opinion, recall one[br]thing again in your minds. 0:25:33.240,0:25:35.880 What is the issue? There are two words[br]in the Quran, 0:25:35.880,0:25:40.060 'mutashaabih' and 'taveel'. These are[br]the fundamental words in the verse. 0:25:40.060,0:25:44.650 The word 'mutashaabih' has been taken[br]by him in the same sense 0:25:44.650,0:25:47.330 as we ascribe to the word 'mushtabeh'[br](ambiguous). 0:25:47.330,0:25:49.890 And he has explained that too.[br]'Mushtabeh'. 0:25:49.890,0:25:52.690 A word which carries the probability[br]of many meanings. 0:25:52.690,0:25:56.160 How has this meaning been derived? I have[br]already told that in the previous lecture. 0:25:56.160,0:25:59.730 So it is not as if that word does not[br]have those other meanings, it does. 0:25:59.730,0:26:02.540 When that word is used, going by[br]its conclusions, 0:26:02.540,0:26:06.540 it also has this meaning, and this meaning[br]was derived among linguists, 0:26:06.540,0:26:09.510 and they started using this word[br]to imply this particular meaning. 0:26:09.510,0:26:12.970 Its example is found in the Quran as well[br]as in our colloquial use as well. 0:26:12.970,0:26:15.926 About the word 'taveel' I have already[br]mentioned that 0:26:15.926,0:26:22.420 in the ancient vocabulary, it was used to[br]return something to its misdaaq or reality 0:26:22.420,0:26:25.170 Now you know the meaning of[br]misdaaq (actual referent). 0:26:25.170,0:26:33.270 But in the later eras, it began to be used[br]to imply meaning and explanation. 0:26:33.270,0:26:35.680 We use this word quite commonly. 0:26:35.680,0:26:39.680 So this later (born-again) meaning of [br]this word, and the meaning of mutashaabih, 0:26:39.680,0:26:43.422 both of these were taken together[br]and a meaning was derived from the verse. 0:26:43.422,0:26:46.002 Now naturally when one understands[br]the subject matter of the verse, 0:26:46.002,0:26:48.632 then whether you take the position of[br]Imam Razi, 0:26:48.632,0:26:51.882 or you take the stance of Maulana[br]Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, 0:26:51.882,0:26:54.032 or whether you decide to go by the[br]opinion of Zamakhshari, 0:26:54.032,0:26:58.032 or even if you see Maulana Maududi,[br]all of them convey the same thing 0:26:58.032,0:27:02.032 that there are some verses in the[br]Quran, in whose meanings 0:27:02.032,0:27:06.032 there is a possibility of ambiguity. This[br]would be the conclusion from it right? 0:27:06.032,0:27:09.192 So the subject matter of those verses is[br]ambiguous or vague for us. 0:27:09.192,0:27:11.742 We cannot categorically establish it. 0:27:11.742,0:27:14.632 I had said that whenever we have to[br]understanding the meaning of something, 0:27:14.632,0:27:16.892 we must always go to its source. 0:27:16.892,0:27:20.292 So here the mistake which has[br]occurred, 0:27:20.292,0:27:25.592 it happened first in determining the[br]meaning of the word 'mutashabeh'. 0:27:25.592,0:27:30.434 And the second error was taking the[br]word 'taveel' in its later meaning. 0:27:30.434,0:27:32.084 This was the second mistake. 0:27:32.084,0:27:35.564 In what sense has the word 'mutashaabeh'[br]been used here actually? 0:27:35.564,0:27:38.364 It has been used in its literal[br]sense only. 0:27:39.888,0:27:42.752 It means things are similar or[br]indistinguishable. 0:27:42.752,0:27:45.732 Similar things means firstly in the[br]sense as used in 0:27:45.732,0:27:48.044 'Kitaabam mutashabiham masaani'. 0:27:48.044,0:27:51.084 That the verses of the Quran are similar[br]and of a related disposition. 0:27:51.084,0:27:53.484 That gives it a second meaning. 0:27:53.484,0:27:57.754 But one meaning is that some verses[br]of the Quran are those which have words 0:27:57.754,0:28:03.964 which relate the unknown referents to[br]things are well known to all. 0:28:05.711,0:28:07.422 Understand this sentence. 0:28:07.422,0:28:12.522 The unknown referent of things is related[br]to known ones to explain them. 0:28:12.522,0:28:14.822 Why did Allah feel the need[br]to do this? 0:28:14.822,0:28:20.870 This need arose because Allah is[br]saying a lot about this world in the Quran 0:28:20.870,0:28:24.970 but the most significant things that[br]He is proclaiming are basically only two. 0:28:24.970,0:28:30.280 One is that this Universe has a[br]Creator, whose own world is concealed. 0:28:30.280,0:28:35.280 We cannot see it, nor can we conceptualize[br]or observe its substance, 0:28:35.280,0:28:37.860 nor can we see the[br]actions therein. 0:28:37.860,0:28:39.640 I have not used the word[br]'attributes', 0:28:39.640,0:28:42.200 because the evidence of those[br]attributes is present in this world. 0:28:42.200,0:28:45.260 So we cannot see the substance of[br]that Creator or His world, 0:28:45.260,0:28:48.050 nor do we see how He brings about[br]any actions. 0:28:48.937,0:28:52.937 I will tell you later on that this is[br]that very issue 0:28:52.937,0:28:56.357 from where the debates of ontology and[br]epistemology arose in philosophy ... 0:28:56.357,0:28:58.147 But this is a topic for a later stage. 0:28:58.147,0:29:01.467 So there is no example of the substance[br]of the unseen world before us, 0:29:01.467,0:29:04.907 there is nothing we can see. It is an[br]essence of a concealed world. 0:29:04.907,0:29:07.267 What is it, of what nature, we don't[br]know anything. 0:29:07.267,0:29:09.937 We cannot see it, cannot observe it. 0:29:09.937,0:29:13.937 And in a similar way are its actions,[br]how does it bring them about? 0:29:13.937,0:29:16.767 A being produces some actions[br]right? 0:29:16.767,0:29:18.967 Attributes are simply the properties[br]of that being. 0:29:18.967,0:29:20.797 We can conceptualize and imagine[br]those. 0:29:20.797,0:29:23.537 But when an act or deed is[br]brought about, 0:29:23.537,0:29:27.087 then a need arises that it be observed, or[br]be witnessed, 0:29:27.087,0:29:29.687 that others should understand what[br]deed is being done. 0:29:29.687,0:29:32.147 So we can see neither of those[br]things. 0:29:32.147,0:29:35.227 And yet the Quran has to introduce[br]God. 0:29:35.227,0:29:40.417 Because to have faith resting solely on[br]God, the entire religion rests on this. 0:29:40.417,0:29:46.337 But He cannot be shown, and nor[br]can His actions be observed. 0:29:46.337,0:29:50.167 The second aspect which forms[br]the basis in the Quran 0:29:50.167,0:29:52.457 is that one day all of us have[br]to depart this world 0:29:52.457,0:29:55.707 and there is another world in which[br]we have to open our eyes. 0:29:55.707,0:29:59.707 Which is a concealed world, and it[br]proclaims that there will a Judgement Day. 0:29:59.707,0:30:02.837 That Judgment Day which will come,[br]that too will bring forth a world 0:30:02.837,0:30:06.837 which we have not seen. [br]We cannot observe it right now. 0:30:06.837,0:30:09.167 So this means that the invitation[br]of the Quran 0:30:09.167,0:30:13.377 is based on two fundamental premises[br]which it wants to convince us of, 0:30:13.377,0:30:16.507 i.e. the existence of God, and[br]the Day of Judgment, 0:30:16.507,0:30:20.507 if some idea and conception has to[br]be given to us about both of them, 0:30:20.507,0:30:23.277 for both of these conceptions are[br]absolutely clear and established. 0:30:23.277,0:30:25.527 One should have faith in Allah who[br]is the Creator of this Universe, 0:30:25.527,0:30:27.797 there is no debate about this.[br]This is absolutely muhkam. 0:30:27.797,0:30:29.527 Similar is the case with the[br]Day of Judgment. 0:30:29.527,0:30:31.487 But what is God like? 0:30:31.487,0:30:35.487 And what would Judgment Day be[br]like, what kind of world would it be? 0:30:35.487,0:30:38.207 These are the things which belong[br]to the concealed world. 0:30:38.207,0:30:42.057 In this unseen world, there would be[br]some material things, right? 0:30:42.057,0:30:44.995 And there would be some ideas.[br]This is how it would be right? 0:30:44.995,0:30:48.537 At least we cannot imagine or ascertain[br]anything more than that. 0:30:48.537,0:30:52.537 And those things and ideas would be in[br]some perceptible form. 0:30:52.537,0:30:56.270 There would be a tree. What would[br]it be like? Well it would be like a tree. 0:30:56.270,0:30:58.467 There would be fruit. And it would[br]be like a fruit! 0:30:58.467,0:31:00.787 There would be some living creatures,[br]probably us only. 0:31:00.787,0:31:02.967 So there would be some things[br]there, i.e. referents! 0:31:02.967,0:31:06.617 Now those entities which will be there,[br]we have no words for them in our language. 0:31:06.617,0:31:08.987 Like I gave you the example[br]of Mars. 0:31:10.119,0:31:14.639 Because they have never been seen[br]before, nor has anyone imagined them here. 0:31:14.639,0:31:17.469 So how could we have words for them?[br]We don't have any in our language. 0:31:17.469,0:31:19.989 If a conception or imagination of them[br]has to be conveyed, 0:31:19.989,0:31:21.830 what way would be adopted to[br]do that? 0:31:21.830,0:31:25.580 The way can only be that that entity[br]of the concealed world 0:31:25.580,0:31:29.820 should be placed in relation to an[br]entity closest to it in this world, 0:31:29.820,0:31:32.600 and the word which is being used[br]to refer to the thing here, 0:31:32.600,0:31:34.380 should be used for the unseen[br]thing too. 0:31:35.257,0:31:38.700 This is the only way one can adopt for[br]it right? There is no other way for it. 0:31:38.700,0:31:41.587 So the verses in which Quran has[br]used this approach, 0:31:41.587,0:31:43.477 are the mutashaabihaat ones. 0:31:43.477,0:31:45.457 It does not mean their meaning[br]is ambiguous, 0:31:45.457,0:31:47.657 for their meanings are absolutely[br]clear. 0:31:47.657,0:31:50.808 Only the objects they're referring to[br]are not before our eyes. 0:31:50.808,0:31:52.878 But there is no doubt in their[br]meanings. 0:31:52.878,0:31:56.878 It is absolutely clear. When the Quran[br]says that there would be fruits there, 0:31:56.878,0:32:01.388 so this word used by the Quran, or when[br]it is saying there would be streams there, 0:32:01.388,0:32:04.648 these words are Arabic words it uses,[br]and their meaning is known to us. 0:32:04.648,0:32:06.428 There is no issue in the meanings[br]of these words. 0:32:06.428,0:32:08.248 But what kind of a stream would[br]it be? 0:32:08.248,0:32:12.248 So it just means that the conception[br]of that stream is not in front of us. 0:32:12.248,0:32:16.248 So what has been done? An example[br]has been taken of a stream in this world, 0:32:16.248,0:32:19.188 and in the afterlife too there is[br]a stream that runs. What kind is it? 0:32:19.188,0:32:21.108 It is possible that it would be[br]completely different from this one. 0:32:21.108,0:32:23.880 Like I gave you the example of[br]a 'degcha' (small pot). 0:32:23.880,0:32:25.428 'Deg' (cauldron) could be seen[br]lying before people's eyes. 0:32:25.428,0:32:27.658 But the 'cha' part had not come[br]into existence back then! 0:32:27.658,0:32:31.658 So in light of that 'deg' lying before[br]us, we created the name 'degcha'. 0:32:31.658,0:32:34.748 So this approach is adopted by[br]Allah as well. 0:32:34.748,0:32:37.980 And apart from this, there is[br]no other way. 0:32:37.980,0:32:40.538 There is no other way of presenting[br]an unseen world. 0:32:40.538,0:32:43.318 Not just Allah, but we too do the[br]same thing. 0:32:43.318,0:32:48.580 If we have to convey such a thing[br]which has not yet come into existence, 0:32:48.580,0:32:51.588 what do we do? We use the tool[br]of simile or comparison. 0:32:51.588,0:32:54.988 That is what we do right? In fact the[br]things which have come into existence, 0:32:54.988,0:32:58.638 about them too we are at times[br]unable to communicate our impressions 0:32:58.638,0:33:00.788 without using the simile or[br]comparison. 0:33:00.788,0:33:07.698 We have not seen the lips that Mir[br]praises in this poetry. 0:33:09.200,0:33:13.810 And he insists that nowhere else[br]can one find such beautiful lips. 0:33:13.810,0:33:18.640 So he took us to a garden, and said[br]that you have seen the petals of a flower. 0:33:18.640,0:33:23.072 So the exquisiteness of this petal, its[br]loveliness, its beauty, its excellence, 0:33:23.072,0:33:29.922 its color, now that you have seen it,[br]I can use it as a simile to tell you 0:33:29.922,0:33:33.072 that the lips I am talking about[br]are like this petal. 0:33:33.072,0:33:37.772 'Of her delicate lips, what can one say,[br]a blushing petal of a rose are they.' 0:33:37.772,0:33:41.862 So here what he has done is, since he[br]could not show us those lips themselves, 0:33:41.862,0:33:45.142 he could certainly show us the flower[br]and the petals. 0:33:45.142,0:33:48.052 And he could show us the petals in[br]such a way 0:33:48.052,0:33:50.912 that it would make clear every[br]aspect of it. 0:33:52.531,0:33:54.151 Have you understood this? 0:33:54.151,0:33:57.451 So actually the point it that this[br]is a constraint that applies over us too. 0:33:57.451,0:34:00.421 At times, when we too cannot[br]show something, 0:34:00.421,0:34:02.651 when we cannot produce the proof[br]of something. 0:34:02.651,0:34:05.291 One way could have been that Mir[br]had said, I am lifting the veil, 0:34:05.291,0:34:09.291 have a look at it yourself. So this veil[br]would be lifted on Judgment Day, 0:34:09.291,0:34:11.031 and then you can see[br]for yourself. 0:34:11.031,0:34:15.031 But till the veil is lifted, there is no[br]other way except that 0:34:15.031,0:34:19.031 the things similar to it which are[br]found in the world, 0:34:19.031,0:34:23.031 a comparison should be drawn with[br]them to explain one's point. 0:34:23.031,0:34:26.251 So 'mutashaabih' has been used in[br]its very literal meaning. 0:34:26.251,0:34:32.501 And its meaning is to describe a thing[br]by reference to its closest example. 0:34:32.501,0:34:37.271 This is what it means. The Quran says[br]that there are two kinds of verses in it. 0:34:37.271,0:34:41.651 One kind of verses are the ones where[br]the Quran has clearly conveyed the content 0:34:41.651,0:34:45.121 and they are muhkam verses. The Quran[br]is saying what it wants to through them. 0:34:45.121,0:34:49.701 And in this respect, all the verses of[br]the Quran are actually muhkam verses. 0:34:49.701,0:34:54.811 But where a verse has to convey a[br]quality or attribute of Allah, 0:34:54.811,0:34:57.281 or give a conception of His[br]actions or deeds, 0:34:57.281,0:35:01.281 or the world which Allah has created,[br]that unseen world, 0:35:01.281,0:35:02.691 and it includes the past too. 0:35:02.691,0:35:05.481 For instance the Quran wants to[br]tell us how Adam was created 0:35:05.481,0:35:08.451 and the Spirit was blown into him.[br]That too was an unseen world for us. 0:35:08.451,0:35:11.991 One concealed world is the one[br]that is going to come in the afterlife. 0:35:11.991,0:35:14.071 So how will this be conveyed? 0:35:14.071,0:35:18.781 There is no other way to convey it[br]except to do it through similitude. 0:35:18.781,0:35:21.571 Not the way of ambiguity, but the[br]style of similitude. 0:35:21.571,0:35:24.633 So what are called the ambiguous verses[br]of the Quran 0:35:24.633,0:35:26.891 are not actually ambiguous, but are[br]rather 'mutashaabih' verses. 0:35:26.891,0:35:29.841 That is, the way of similitude and[br]resemblance has been adopted in them 0:35:29.841,0:35:33.041 and one thing has been drawn parallel[br]with another 0:35:33.041,0:35:35.284 to create a conception of it[br]in our minds. 0:35:35.284,0:35:38.894 If there was any other way of conveying[br]the truth of unseen things, 0:35:38.894,0:35:41.404 then Imam Razi and Zamakhshari would[br]certainly have told us. 0:35:41.404,0:35:44.514 But there is no other way. This is[br]the one and only way. 0:35:44.514,0:35:47.364 No other approach is found to[br]do it at all. 0:35:47.364,0:35:50.584 We are bound to adopt this[br]approach only. 0:35:50.584,0:35:55.844 Is this clear? Now see, these verses[br]which are there, 0:35:55.844,0:35:59.844 are known to me too, and you know[br]it as well. 0:35:59.844,0:36:02.334 Zamakhshari and Imam Razi were also[br]aware of the meaning. 0:36:02.334,0:36:04.764 Their meaning is known to[br]all of us. 0:36:04.764,0:36:08.054 But their visual evidence is not seen[br]by any of us. 0:36:08.054,0:36:09.714 This is the case, isn't it? 0:36:09.714,0:36:14.514 So the Quran did not say that their[br]meaning is not known to anyone but Allah. 0:36:14.514,0:36:17.504 Quran says that their referent is not[br]known to anyone except Allah. 0:36:17.504,0:36:23.624 That is, no one knows other than Allah[br]what paradise really is like. 0:36:23.624,0:36:25.924 Allah knows of course, He is looking[br]at His paradise. 0:36:25.924,0:36:28.644 He can see the past as well as[br]the future. 0:36:28.644,0:36:31.574 But Zamakhshari and Razi don't[br]know what it is like. 0:36:31.574,0:36:34.314 Me and you are not aware of it either.[br]We don't know. 0:36:34.314,0:36:37.333 So the paradise that Allah has created,[br]or for that matter the Hell He has made, 0:36:37.333,0:36:39.113 or whichever unseen world He[br]has created, 0:36:39.113,0:36:41.643 or when He talks of His own[br]qualities and attributes, 0:36:41.643,0:36:44.877 or when He talks of His deeds.[br]'Nafakhtu fihi min ruhi.' 0:36:44.877,0:36:46.977 I infused from My own Spirit[br]into him. 0:36:46.977,0:36:51.229 Allah is narrating an event. Now[br]naturally we have not seen God, 0:36:51.229,0:36:54.387 nor do we know what His[br]Spirit means. 0:36:54.387,0:36:56.767 Nor do we know what blowing[br]it means. 0:36:56.767,0:37:01.787 But whatever occurred, was related[br]somewhat to the blowing of the Spirit. 0:37:01.787,0:37:04.267 So those were the words taken from[br]our language, 0:37:04.267,0:37:07.867 and Allah has communicated that[br]event to us. 0:37:07.867,0:37:12.407 So all such verses are mutashaabih. 0:37:12.407,0:37:16.407 And these are not at all ambiguous in[br]their subject matter and content. 0:37:16.407,0:37:20.407 They are absolutely clear. We can present[br]their meaning and content. 0:37:20.407,0:37:23.457 We can debate about it, and we[br]can determine it. 0:37:23.457,0:37:28.137 If this is clear, then there should be no[br]problem understanding what I have written. 0:37:28.137,0:37:31.667 Is this clear, where the mistake[br]originated? 0:37:31.667,0:37:36.497 The mistake arose in two places.[br]The word 'mutashaabih' has one meaning 0:37:36.497,0:37:41.007 according to its conclusion in the Arabic[br]language, which is still in use. 0:37:41.007,0:37:44.169 That meaning was taken.[br]This is the first error. 0:37:44.169,0:37:48.559 The Muvallad meaning of 'taveel' became[br]dominant in people's minds. 0:37:48.559,0:37:52.819 Muvallad latemeaning means that in the ancient[br]times, that word did not have that meaning 0:37:52.819,0:37:56.559 but in the later eras the word developed[br]a new meaning. 0:37:56.559,0:38:00.019 And it began to be used in[br]that sense. 0:38:00.019,0:38:03.229 So like I had told you in the[br]previous debate, 0:38:03.229,0:38:05.849 that there too, the mistake which[br]has been made is 0:38:05.849,0:38:10.339 that the journey of the word, its[br]reality and the reality of its meaning, 0:38:11.296,0:38:14.605 the reality of its style and its[br]subject matter, 0:38:14.605,0:38:17.465 has been conflated with an event. 0:38:17.465,0:38:23.585 Whereas an event occurs in the past[br]and then comes to an end. 0:38:23.585,0:38:27.035 Only its historical narration remains. 0:38:27.035,0:38:31.775 A word is born after centuries, and its[br]journey continues. 0:38:33.365,0:38:37.148 And this journey, unless the word[br]becomes obsolete, never ends. 0:38:37.148,0:38:38.968 A word's journey is always[br]going on. 0:38:38.968,0:38:43.608 So a word is actually a continuous[br]practice that is perpetually going on. 0:38:43.608,0:38:47.778 It is that which the vocabulary is[br]conveying, which grammar is presenting. 0:38:47.778,0:38:49.548 Which rhetoric is explaining. 0:38:49.548,0:38:53.816 So the experts of these disciplines are[br]not actually historians. 0:38:53.816,0:38:58.016 But rather, whatever exists, they are[br]presenting it and thereby deducing from it 0:38:58.016,0:39:00.296 and are telling us what the[br]word actually is. 0:39:00.296,0:39:03.686 So there too as I told you, the source[br]of the mistake is that 0:39:03.686,0:39:09.936 the journey of the word along with its[br]meaning is conflated as a historical event 0:39:09.936,0:39:12.836 But a word is not an event[br]from the past. 0:39:12.836,0:39:16.106 Absolutely not.[br][Student] The word 'taveel' 0:39:16.106,0:39:18.896 has been used by people in this[br]sense as well. 0:39:18.896,0:39:22.356 Even if it was not spoken in this sense[br]in the time of the Prophet (pbuh). 0:39:22.356,0:39:25.886 [Ghamidi] I had said that this word[br]in that era, 0:39:25.886,0:39:28.546 the dominant meaning of this word[br]was that of its misdaaq. 0:39:28.546,0:39:30.656 In the Quran too, it has been used[br]in that sense. 0:39:30.656,0:39:34.226 Its meaning as interpretation and[br]translation came into use a lot later. 0:39:37.595,0:39:40.176 So now let us read this. 0:39:40.176,0:39:44.176 The answer to the third question is that[br]it is not correct that 0:39:44.176,0:39:47.556 we cannot with certainty distinguish the[br]muhkam verses of the Quran 0:39:47.556,0:39:51.806 from the mutashabih or that we are unable[br]to determine the meaning of mutashabihaat. 0:39:51.806,0:39:54.646 So both of these assumptions[br]are false. 0:39:54.646,0:39:57.456 We can determine which verses are[br]mutashaabih. 0:39:57.456,0:40:00.836 Those verses are mutashaabih in which[br]there is reference to an unseen world, 0:40:00.836,0:40:03.486 whether it is related to our past[br]or our future. 0:40:03.486,0:40:07.486 Whether it is related to Allah's first[br]creation, as per human history, 0:40:07.486,0:40:10.396 or whether it is related to whatever[br]is going to happen on Judgement Day. 0:40:10.396,0:40:13.546 Whether it is related to Allah's own[br]world where there are angels, 0:40:13.546,0:40:16.007 and we don't know what else[br]resides there. 0:40:16.007,0:40:18.215 So it might be related to any of it. 0:40:18.215,0:40:22.025 The verses which talk of those[br]world are mutashaabih. 0:40:23.144,0:40:26.724 All verses of the Quran on which its[br]guidance is based are muhkam, 0:40:26.724,0:40:31.724 and mutashabih are only those verses which[br]mention certain blessings and torments 0:40:31.724,0:40:36.964 one may encounter in the Hereafter, which[br]are stated through parables or similes. 0:40:36.964,0:40:40.104 Or the attributes and actions of God,[br]or the mention of something 0:40:40.104,0:40:43.014 which is beyond the grasp of our knowledge[br]and observation 0:40:43.014,0:40:47.034 has been stated about one of His worlds[br]in an allegorical manner. 0:40:47.034,0:40:49.724 So now it has been absolutely established[br]and is known of certain 0:40:49.724,0:40:51.864 which verses are mutashaabih. 0:40:51.864,0:40:55.454 Either they are the blessings and[br]torments of the Hereafter, 0:40:55.454,0:40:58.974 which Allah has to convey to us,[br]about what blessings will be given there. 0:40:58.974,0:41:00.784 Or what punishments will be inflicted[br]in Hell. 0:41:00.784,0:41:04.004 What would be its nature? Would it[br]be with fire, a tree of Thuhar (Sehund), 0:41:04.004,0:41:07.394 there would be pus to drink, Allah[br]says all this about Hereafter, right? 0:41:07.394,0:41:09.104 Same is the case with paradise. 0:41:09.104,0:41:11.984 Or the mention of the attributes and[br]actions of God. 0:41:11.984,0:41:15.984 Naturally we have not seen Allah,[br]and we are unfamiliar 0:41:15.984,0:41:18.794 with the nature of his attributes.[br]Although we have some idea of them. 0:41:18.794,0:41:21.984 His actions are something we cannot[br]see at all, we cannot observe them. 0:41:21.984,0:41:24.994 Allah has to convey them too, like[br]I had given you the example, 0:41:24.994,0:41:28.056 when Allah says that I blew My[br]Spirit into Adam. 0:41:28.056,0:41:33.736 This is His action. But I cannot show[br]it to you, cannot make you observe it. 0:41:33.736,0:41:37.371 Or the mention of something which is[br]beyond our knowledge and observation, 0:41:37.371,0:41:39.276 about one of His worlds. 0:41:39.276,0:41:44.156 So there is a world of Allah which is[br]beyond our knowledge or observation. 0:41:44.156,0:41:46.676 and some element of it has been[br]described in an allegorical way. 0:41:46.676,0:41:49.996 For instance, God blowing His spirit[br]into Adam, 0:41:49.996,0:41:53.346 the birth of Jesus (AS) without[br]a father, 0:41:53.346,0:41:56.686 or the various places and circumstances[br]one may encounter in Paradise and Hell. 0:41:56.686,0:42:01.686 These are the things about which only[br]this manner can be used to describe. 0:42:01.686,0:42:09.846 All things for which words have not yet[br]been invented, 0:42:09.846,0:42:14.686 can only be stated through parables[br]and similes. 0:42:14.686,0:42:17.206 This is the point which I have already[br]explained to you. 0:42:17.206,0:42:24.036 Two hundred years ago, if a person had[br]foreknowledge of electricity bulbs 0:42:24.036,0:42:27.396 when they had not been invented yet,[br]he would perhaps have said, 0:42:27.396,0:42:32.166 lanterns which would neither require oil[br]nor fire will one day light up the world. 0:42:32.166,0:42:34.386 This is how it would have been[br]described right? 0:42:34.386,0:42:36.956 An unseen world which has now[br]become observable. 0:42:36.956,0:42:40.606 Now we can see it and words have been[br]created to describe it. 0:42:40.606,0:42:44.026 Now there is no difficulty faced[br]in interpreting it. 0:42:44.026,0:42:50.116 But if two or three hundred years ago if[br]one had to describe the electricity bulbs 0:42:50.116,0:42:54.506 which is an extraordinary thing. It's such[br]a thing human beings have conquered 0:42:54.506,0:42:56.706 which has created a drastically[br]new world. 0:42:56.706,0:42:59.446 If someone had wanted to convey this two[br]centuries ago, how would he describe it? 0:42:59.446,0:43:01.466 He would have done it in these[br]words right? 0:43:01.466,0:43:04.246 The nature of mutashaabih verses is[br]no different. 0:43:04.246,0:43:07.866 Neither are they unascertainable nor is[br]there any ambiguity in their meaning. 0:43:08.691,0:43:12.021 So they are ascertainable, we can tell[br]which verses are mutashaabih 0:43:12.021,0:43:14.181 based on this principle which[br]is there. 0:43:14.181,0:43:15.821 And nor is there any ambiguity[br]in their meaning. 0:43:15.821,0:43:20.111 Their intention is absolutely clear, and[br]there is no issue in understanding them. 0:43:20.111,0:43:23.831 Their words are that of an[br]eloquent Arabic, 0:43:23.831,0:43:27.551 and we are able to understand their[br]meaning without any difficulty. 0:43:27.551,0:43:29.961 So there is no difficulty in understanding[br]their meaning. 0:43:29.961,0:43:35.761 The only thing is that we are not able to[br]understand what they imply in this life. 0:43:35.761,0:43:41.691 This is the fact of the matter. That we[br]are not meant to know what they imply. 0:43:41.691,0:43:44.941 However, since this lack of understanding[br]has nothing to do 0:43:44.941,0:43:46.461 with understanding the Quran, 0:43:46.461,0:43:50.461 so a believer should not pursue the[br]determination of what they imply. 0:43:50.461,0:43:53.061 So when we have understood that Allah's[br]blessings will be given 0:43:53.061,0:43:55.781 in the form of Paradise, and this[br]statement is absolutely muhkam, 0:43:55.781,0:43:58.481 and in that blessing is a great[br]peace of mind and sight for us. 0:43:58.481,0:44:02.121 And all of our instinctive and natural[br]desires will be fulfilled there. 0:44:02.121,0:44:04.431 And they will be fulfilled to the utmost[br]extent, we have understood this. 0:44:04.431,0:44:08.431 But if a person decides to pursue that the[br]Thuhar tree that will be there in Hell, 0:44:08.431,0:44:11.391 what would it really be like?[br]Then Nadeem would become Hyder. 0:44:13.711,0:44:15.081 He would be right? 0:44:15.414,0:44:18.254 He was laughing so I referred[br]to him. 0:44:18.912,0:44:24.612 So to pursue the question of something[br]indeterminate ... what does it entail? 0:44:24.612,0:44:26.972 Streams might flow in the Paradise, 0:44:26.972,0:44:30.092 but to attempt to conceptualize an[br]image of that stream. 0:44:30.092,0:44:33.101 And to argue and fight about it. 0:44:33.101,0:44:38.121 What is this? When it is clear that[br]Allah's blessings will be given to us. 0:44:38.121,0:44:41.611 While explaining this, Imam Amin Ahsan[br]Islahi writes, 0:44:41.611,0:44:48.681 'The reality to which the mutashaabihaat[br]point is itself very clear and obvious.' 0:44:48.681,0:44:51.311 So the fundamental reality these[br]revelations relate to 0:44:51.311,0:44:54.761 are rewards and punishments. About[br]getting Allah's rewards or punishments 0:44:54.761,0:44:58.241 on the Judgment Day. So this is absolutely[br]clear and obvious in the verses. 0:44:58.241,0:45:02.961 'The intellect can understand that part of[br]it which is essential for it to understand 0:45:02.961,0:45:06.741 However, since it belongs to an[br]unseen world, 0:45:06.741,0:45:10.741 the Quran mentions it through parables[br]and similes 0:45:10.741,0:45:15.101 so that students of the Quran can[br]understand it as per their capabilities 0:45:15.101,0:45:18.871 and consider that only God knows what[br]their real form and shape is.' 0:45:18.871,0:45:22.181 So the correct attitude is that people[br]should be grateful 0:45:22.181,0:45:25.461 for whatever knowledge Allah has[br]given us about these things. 0:45:25.461,0:45:27.931 And instead of quibbling over the reality[br]of those things, 0:45:27.931,0:45:31.501 we should leave it up to Allah. Whenever[br]Allah will want to, He will lift the veil, 0:45:31.501,0:45:33.061 we will know the truth in the[br]Hereafter. 0:45:33.061,0:45:35.411 'These relate to attributes and works[br]of God 0:45:35.411,0:45:39.071 or to the reward and punishment[br]of the Hereafter. 0:45:39.071,0:45:43.423 We are able to understand them to the[br]extent we need to understand them, 0:45:43.423,0:45:46.553 and this increases our knowledge[br]and certainty, 0:45:46.553,0:45:53.143 but if we go beyond this and start to seek[br]their real form and shape, 0:45:53.143,0:45:55.433 then this will only lead[br]us astray.' 0:45:55.433,0:45:58.723 If you open the doors to this kind[br]of debate, 0:45:58.723,0:46:01.623 that the tree which will be there in[br]Hell and the fire that would be burning, 0:46:01.623,0:46:05.203 then what would that tree be like[br]which would not catch fire? 0:46:05.203,0:46:09.203 This creates an issue then, right?[br]This example has been given in the Quran. 0:46:09.203,0:46:11.653 That the unbelievers brought up this[br]debate that 0:46:11.653,0:46:14.113 look how irrational statements the[br]believers are making. 0:46:14.113,0:46:18.113 They say that there would be fire in[br]Hell and a Thuhar tree as well! 0:46:18.113,0:46:20.383 But if there would be fire there cannot[br]be a tree surviving in it, 0:46:20.383,0:46:22.173 and if the tree is there, then there[br]can't be a fire. 0:46:22.173,0:46:25.532 This is actually making a comparison[br]of it with this world. 0:46:27.499,0:46:32.459 'But if we try to go beyond our limit and[br]start to seek their real form and shape.' 0:46:32.459,0:46:35.209 See he doesn't say meaning or sense, he[br]is talking of the real form and shape. 0:46:35.209,0:46:39.209 If we try to capture that, then that leads[br]us astray and causes strife. 0:46:39.209,0:46:44.129 'The result of this is that while wanting[br]to remove one thorn of doubt from the mind 0:46:44.129,0:46:48.840 a person ends up getting pricked by[br]many more. 0:46:48.840,0:46:54.390 So much so, that in this quest to know[br]more he loses what he had gained.' 0:46:55.625,0:47:01.865 So the situation becomes such that when[br]one had gone to discover something unknown 0:47:01.865,0:47:04.805 when he came back he had[br]lost even himself. 0:47:04.805,0:47:06.985 In the words of Ghalib, he even lost[br]himself in the fruitless search. 0:47:06.985,0:47:08.735 This is what happens. 0:47:08.735,0:47:13.145 'And refutes very clear facts just because[br]he is not able to ascertain 0:47:13.145,0:47:16.085 their form and shape.' So something[br]was very clear, 0:47:16.085,0:47:20.265 but he negated it only because he could[br]not understand 0:47:20.265,0:47:22.405 what the Thuhar tree would[br]be like. 0:47:22.405,0:47:24.305 Or what would the stream of Paradise[br]look like? 0:47:24.305,0:47:26.933 Or how would honey flow in the[br]rivers? 0:47:26.933,0:47:30.103 [Student] But reading these Surahs[br]seems as if 0:47:30.103,0:47:32.679 it is necessary for one to[br]have faith first. 0:47:32.679,0:47:37.929 So if one wants to understand mutashaabih[br]verses, one would have to have faith first 0:47:37.929,0:47:42.329 only then can one reach a conclusion[br]in this debate. 0:47:42.329,0:47:44.849 [Ghamidi] No, one can easily[br]understand them. 0:47:44.849,0:47:48.849 If it is clear to a person based on[br]rational arguments, 0:47:48.849,0:47:53.219 that the Hereafter should exist. [br]Now Allah has presented a picture for us 0:47:53.219,0:47:56.963 of the Hereafter. No rational person would[br]have difficulty in understanding this. 0:47:56.963,0:47:58.883 There is no need for one to have[br]faith in it first. 0:47:58.883,0:48:02.443 It is comprehensible for all, that[br]there would be streams there, 0:48:02.443,0:48:04.173 and so and so blessings would[br]be there. 0:48:04.173,0:48:07.403 This can be understood. As for faith,[br]that has to be accepted about Paradise. 0:48:07.403,0:48:09.943 One would need to have faith[br]about rewards and punishments. 0:48:09.943,0:48:13.513 The subject of faith and belief is not[br]that stream which would be flowing there. 0:48:13.513,0:48:16.923 The concern for a believer is simply that[br]there would be a reward and punishment. 0:48:16.923,0:48:19.093 This is a very rational point, and it can[br]be understood by every person in the world 0:48:19.093,0:48:21.913 that this is how it should be. [br]But when you have accepted it, 0:48:21.913,0:48:24.453 based on your intellect and reason that[br]there would be a Judgment Day, 0:48:24.453,0:48:27.773 then what would be the debate[br]about the particular details of it? 0:48:27.773,0:48:30.073 There is no difficulty in even[br]understanding the particulars, 0:48:30.073,0:48:33.793 but only its referent is not before us.[br]That is the only thing. 0:48:37.259,0:48:41.259 [Ghamidi] So it means that this meaning[br]which we have just used, 0:48:41.259,0:48:43.719 what is that entity for which they[br]stand true? 0:48:43.719,0:48:46.309 'Degcha' for instance, what is that[br]thing for which its meaning stands? 0:48:46.309,0:48:48.559 That pot which is lying in the kitchen[br]in your house. 0:48:48.559,0:48:50.499 [Student] So can we convey it in[br]some other words then? 0:48:50.499,0:48:51.969 [Ghamidi] Yes you absolutely can[br]convey it in some other words, 0:48:51.969,0:48:53.669 to communicate what the reality[br]of that thing is. 0:48:55.136,0:48:57.216 Is the time up?[br][Student] We have two minutes left. 0:48:57.216,0:49:03.356 [Ghamidi] So we cannot read the next[br]paragraph right now in two minutes. 0:49:06.820,0:49:10.480 [Student] Are the angels and Iblees[br](Satan) also mutashaabih? 0:49:12.122,0:49:14.852 [Ghamidi] Naturally we have not seen[br]Iblees ourselves. 0:49:14.852,0:49:17.992 If someone has met him then I[br]cannot speak for that person. 0:49:22.640,0:49:25.260 No that is a separate debate, what[br]he is or is not. 0:49:25.260,0:49:29.260 We have not seen Iblees, we do not know[br]who Iblees is, or what Djinns are. 0:49:29.260,0:49:31.890 Allah has only informed us about[br]them 0:49:31.890,0:49:36.540 and has explained it to us in the[br]only possible way. 0:49:38.143,0:49:41.493 Anything more than this is simply[br]not possible for us to have observed. 0:49:41.493,0:49:43.113 When we have not seen something[br]ourselves, 0:49:43.113,0:49:46.613 although if in case it happens that a[br]Djinn appears before us, 0:49:47.575,0:49:49.602 then alright, we can see them. 0:49:50.709,0:49:52.079 Even right now what is[br]the case? 0:49:52.079,0:49:56.503 There was a concept of Djinns created[br]within the minds of human beings. 0:49:56.503,0:50:00.993 And they interpreted that concept with[br]a word of their language, 'djinn', 0:50:00.993,0:50:03.383 which basically means concealed[br]or hidden. 0:50:03.383,0:50:06.963 You see there is no referent conveyed[br]even within the word itself. 0:50:06.963,0:50:11.520 A concept has been given a word, but[br]if you go into the meaning of that word, 0:50:11.520,0:50:13.800 then even there you will find no[br]testimony of the thing itself. 0:50:13.800,0:50:15.660 It simply means concealed. 0:50:15.660,0:50:18.260 It means such a creature which[br]is hidden. 0:50:18.260,0:50:20.640 Because human beings have never[br]seen a Djinn, 0:50:20.640,0:50:24.120 therefore they can only ascribe the[br]word for 'concealed' to that concept. 0:50:24.120,0:50:26.170 Otherwise they would have at least[br]used a word in which 0:50:26.170,0:50:29.350 there would be a reference or comparison[br]to some thing or another. 0:50:29.350,0:50:32.780 For instance, if he had to use a[br]word for it, 0:50:32.780,0:50:36.280 he might have used human beings[br]as a reference, or maybe an animal, 0:50:36.280,0:50:38.680 and then would have created a word[br]similar to it. 0:50:38.680,0:50:41.320 But he had to create a word for[br]a concept, so he said 'djinn', 0:50:41.320,0:50:43.370 that which cannot be seen. 0:50:43.370,0:50:45.710 What happened here? 0:50:45.710,0:50:50.090 We know the meaning of Djinn,[br]but we do not know its evidence. 0:50:51.108,0:50:54.808 [Student] You mentioned that the[br]meaning of 'mutashaabih' is 0:50:54.808,0:50:58.008 those verses whose meaning is known[br]but evidence is not known. 0:50:58.008,0:51:00.788 So the Huruf-e Muqattaat (disjoined[br]letters) which we see in Quran, 0:51:00.788,0:51:03.758 how would we know their[br]meanings? 0:51:03.758,0:51:05.948 [Ghamidi] Huruf-e Muqattaat is[br]a topic of the Quran, 0:51:05.948,0:51:07.588 InshaAllah when I teach you about[br]it, I will explain it all, 0:51:07.588,0:51:10.658 its meaning is also absolutely[br]clear and determined. 0:51:15.367,0:51:18.437 Alright, so we are now left with[br]a bit more of this topic. 0:51:18.437,0:51:21.477 After this we will begin with the next[br]debate on Friday InshaAllah.