0:00:06.521,0:00:07.959
Truth and deception.

0:00:09.179,0:00:11.188
Lying and telling the truth

0:00:11.938,0:00:14.080
and knowing the difference [br]between the two.

0:00:14.960,0:00:17.415
It's something that I think about a lot.

0:00:18.435,0:00:22.279
And it's not that I'm[br]sort of a cynical, morbid, old guy

0:00:22.676,0:00:28.097
who thinks a lot about lying, but I do,[br]and I do because it's important.

0:00:28.097,0:00:29.977
(Laughter)

0:00:29.977,0:00:32.649
It's important for us [br]in an interpersonal level.

0:00:32.999,0:00:34.649
We have conversations with people;

0:00:34.649,0:00:36.072
we often are concerned

0:00:36.072,0:00:38.242
whether they're being[br]truthful with us or not.

0:00:38.852,0:00:40.821
It's important for us as a society.

0:00:41.321,0:00:43.180
It's important for us as a world.

0:00:43.820,0:00:48.381
When lies get told to societies,[br]and they're believed,

0:00:48.391,0:00:49.532
it has a special name;

0:00:49.532,0:00:51.005
it's called propaganda.

0:00:51.365,0:00:55.859
And when propaganda happens,[br]some really bad things can happen.

0:00:56.450,0:00:59.169
And so I want to talk[br]about that topic tonight

0:00:59.169,0:01:00.881
from a point of view of science.

0:01:00.881,0:01:02.945
And the science is really interesting

0:01:02.945,0:01:05.702
because it's got[br]some interesting contradictions

0:01:05.702,0:01:08.100
and, I think, surprising findings in it.

0:01:08.240,0:01:11.252
But I'd like to make this real for you[br]with a couple of stories,

0:01:11.252,0:01:12.441
just to begin with.

0:01:12.730,0:01:16.149
The first one is about a young man[br]named Jeffrey Deskovic.

0:01:17.022,0:01:18.667
You can see Jeffrey here;

0:01:18.667,0:01:20.607
he's about 16 years old,

0:01:21.147,0:01:25.723
living the life of the average[br]American 15- and 16-year-old.

0:01:26.083,0:01:27.552
He was in high school,

0:01:27.552,0:01:29.580
everything was going fairly well,

0:01:29.580,0:01:35.207
and in the fall of 1989,[br]a tragedy befell his high school

0:01:35.543,0:01:37.225
and one of his classmates.

0:01:37.715,0:01:40.985
A classmate named Angela[br]went out on a photographic project

0:01:41.764,0:01:43.400
and went missing.

0:01:43.840,0:01:46.403
She was gone for a couple of days.

0:01:46.933,0:01:48.383
And then her body was found,

0:01:48.383,0:01:50.426
and she'd been brutally[br]raped and murdered.

0:01:51.636,0:01:53.318
Jeffrey took this kind of hard.

0:01:54.038,0:01:55.204
He knew Angela;

0:01:55.204,0:01:59.100
they were not boyfriend and girlfriend,[br]but they knew each other.

0:01:59.100,0:02:00.626
Angela had been nice to him;

0:02:00.626,0:02:02.417
she'd helped him with his homework.

0:02:02.507,0:02:05.642
And he was deeply affected by her loss.

0:02:06.412,0:02:07.854
He went to the funeral.

0:02:08.364,0:02:10.961
He wrote a letter[br]that he put on the casket.

0:02:11.441,0:02:13.824
He broke down and cried [br]during the funeral.

0:02:14.644,0:02:17.362
This was in a small town in New York.

0:02:17.672,0:02:20.598
The police were very interested[br]in solving the crime,

0:02:20.598,0:02:24.641
and as they often do,[br]they went to the funeral.

0:02:24.641,0:02:27.831
They thought Jeffrey[br]reacted just too much,

0:02:28.255,0:02:30.243
and they became interested in Jeffrey.

0:02:30.623,0:02:32.719
They interviewed Jeffrey[br]a couple of times,

0:02:33.259,0:02:35.595
but they also interviewed [br]a lot of other people.

0:02:36.295,0:02:38.790
And for some reason,

0:02:38.790,0:02:41.592
they just got very interested in Jeffrey.

0:02:41.932,0:02:46.173
One morning, they came to his school,[br]and unbeknownst to his parents,

0:02:46.665,0:02:47.776
they took Jeffrey,

0:02:47.776,0:02:50.506
and they asked him if he'd come[br]and take a polygraph test.

0:02:51.708,0:02:54.753
He thought he was going to go down[br]to the local police station,

0:02:54.757,0:02:56.814
but he was taken some distance away.

0:02:57.154,0:02:59.566
He was introduced to a polygraph examiner.

0:02:59.916,0:03:05.316
And really, there was no intention[br]of running a real polygraph test that day.

0:03:05.316,0:03:07.261
They wanted to interrogate him.

0:03:07.936,0:03:10.580
The interrogation lasted six hours.

0:03:11.750,0:03:15.630
And at the end of six hours,[br]Jeffrey was reduced to tears.

0:03:15.857,0:03:18.245
He was on the floor in the fetal position.

0:03:18.565,0:03:21.845
The polygraph examiner,[br]who had been with him for those six hours,

0:03:21.859,0:03:22.946
gave up,

0:03:23.166,0:03:25.126
and two other detectives came in.

0:03:25.426,0:03:28.436
And they did what you[br]hear call the "good cop."

0:03:28.626,0:03:30.735
So they were now the helpful police.

0:03:31.265,0:03:32.585
And they tell Jeffrey,

0:03:32.935,0:03:37.807
"If you'll just be honest with us,[br]we'll get you some treatment,

0:03:37.997,0:03:39.666
you won't have to go to jail."

0:03:40.146,0:03:41.396
And within about an hour,

0:03:41.396,0:03:45.005
he had confessed[br]to having raped and killed Angela.

0:03:46.335,0:03:48.117
But they were lying to him.

0:03:48.307,0:03:50.246
They didn't take him to treatment.

0:03:50.246,0:03:52.463
They arrested him [br]and charged him with murder.

0:03:52.843,0:03:56.057
He almost immediately [br]recanted the confession,

0:03:56.267,0:03:57.798
and said he only did that

0:03:57.798,0:04:01.648
because he thought that was the only way[br]he was going to get away from the police.

0:04:01.997,0:04:04.847
He eventually went to trial,[br]was convicted,

0:04:04.987,0:04:07.356
and spent the next 16 years in jail.

0:04:08.446,0:04:10.624
The Innocence Project got involved.

0:04:11.574,0:04:14.610
They discovered that there was[br]still DNA from the victim

0:04:14.610,0:04:17.068
that the rapist had left behind.

0:04:17.915,0:04:20.458
They, after a long court battle,

0:04:21.108,0:04:24.063
got permission to test that[br]against the national database,

0:04:24.063,0:04:26.390
which now existed, 16 years later.

0:04:27.029,0:04:31.499
And a hit was found, a positive hit,[br]on the contributor of the semen.

0:04:31.973,0:04:36.178
And Jeffrey was released[br]as a wrongfully convicted person.

0:04:37.198,0:04:41.209
He sued and ended up[br]with quite a bit of money.

0:04:41.439,0:04:44.279
And today, Jeffrey[br]is actually doing quite well.

0:04:44.649,0:04:48.308
He took some of that money[br]and created a foundation

0:04:48.308,0:04:50.179
to help wrongfully convicted people.

0:04:50.421,0:04:52.866
And right now he's in law school,

0:04:52.866,0:04:57.069
going to become a lawyer[br]to represent wrongfully convicted people.

0:04:57.739,0:05:00.457
But here's a young man[br]who told the truth to the police,

0:05:00.687,0:05:02.198
and he wasn't believed.

0:05:02.728,0:05:06.319
Then he lied to the police[br]because he gave a false confession,

0:05:06.879,0:05:08.358
and he was believed.

0:05:08.598,0:05:12.169
Then he went to trial,[br]and 12 people sat in judgment over him,

0:05:12.180,0:05:15.350
and he said that he was innocent,[br]and they didn't believe him.

0:05:16.090,0:05:17.224
And he went to jail.

0:05:18.054,0:05:20.960
That would be tragedy enough[br]if it was just Jeffrey.

0:05:20.962,0:05:22.339
But it's not just Jeffrey.

0:05:22.339,0:05:24.991
From the Innocence Project,[br]we know that there have been

0:05:24.991,0:05:28.052
a quite a number of wrongfully[br]convicted people.

0:05:28.882,0:05:31.842
About one out of four of them[br]wrongfully confessed

0:05:32.515,0:05:34.309
to a crime they didn't commit.

0:05:34.999,0:05:38.140
So this is not an unusual, isolated event.

0:05:38.640,0:05:41.031
The other event I want to mention is 9/11.

0:05:41.931,0:05:47.717
And 9/11 is of interest[br]because those 19 terrorists

0:05:47.717,0:05:50.240
who came to the United States[br]to attack us,

0:05:50.730,0:05:55.569
every one of them was interviewed[br]by agents of the United States Government.

0:05:55.687,0:05:58.655
Every one of them,[br]interviewed at least three times.

0:05:59.082,0:06:02.582
So they were interviewed at the embassy[br]where they applied for a visa -

0:06:03.171,0:06:06.893
probably interviewed more than once,[br]given where they came from -

0:06:08.052,0:06:09.822
they were interviewed by Customs

0:06:09.822,0:06:12.144
when they came to the border[br]of the United States

0:06:12.144,0:06:13.800
to come inside the United States,

0:06:13.800,0:06:15.952
and they were also[br]interviewed by Immigration.

0:06:15.982,0:06:17.422
Each of them lied three times.

0:06:17.422,0:06:19.437
We didn't catch even one of them.

0:06:20.847,0:06:23.215
Think what a different world[br]we'd live in today

0:06:23.976,0:06:26.573
if we'd caught even one of them early on

0:06:27.183,0:06:28.429
and talked to them.

0:06:30.509,0:06:33.223
So, that's my interest,[br]and this is what I do.

0:06:33.223,0:06:34.940
I'm a psychological scientist.

0:06:34.940,0:06:38.383
I study truthfulness and deception[br]and how you tell the difference.

0:06:38.984,0:06:41.493
And that science, I think, [br]is really interesting.

0:06:41.493,0:06:43.442
And I want to give credit to some people

0:06:43.442,0:06:45.812
because I'm gonna talk -[br]this is not just my work;

0:06:45.812,0:06:48.833
this is work of a group of people[br]who do research in this area.

0:06:49.052,0:06:52.561
And I want to just give [br]some of them credit upfront.

0:06:53.051,0:06:59.629
Charles Bond, Bella DePaulo,[br]Maria Hartwig, David Raskin, Aldert Vrij.

0:06:59.965,0:07:01.171
And if you're interested,

0:07:01.171,0:07:03.443
those are names[br]to go look for to read more.

0:07:05.443,0:07:08.367
And the science has[br]some interesting things in it.

0:07:08.367,0:07:11.890
One is we have interesting[br]attitudes about lying.

0:07:12.800,0:07:14.389
If you ask people,

0:07:14.389,0:07:16.519
"What makes up good character?

0:07:16.519,0:07:19.801
What do you want to see in people[br]to think that they're a good person

0:07:19.801,0:07:21.171
and have good character?"

0:07:21.171,0:07:27.618
And near the top of that list[br]is always "sincere, honest, truthful."

0:07:28.900,0:07:32.607
And at the bottom of that list -[br]what's bad character?

0:07:33.320,0:07:36.681
The number one or sort[br]of the numbered last is "liar."

0:07:37.521,0:07:38.790
We don't like liars.

0:07:39.100,0:07:40.894
At least we say we don't like liars.

0:07:42.224,0:07:44.634
But if you go and you look[br]at people's behavior,

0:07:45.839,0:07:49.480
you find out something really funny,[br]really interesting, that doesn't fit.

0:07:49.970,0:07:53.085
Because if you look at people's behavior,[br]they lie frequently.

0:07:54.737,0:07:59.174
If you look at conversations[br]that last at least 10 minutes,

0:08:00.744,0:08:05.073
the data say we lie in about[br]one out of every four of those.

0:08:05.983,0:08:10.890
We lie to about one of every three people[br]we have a conversation with.

0:08:11.801,0:08:15.766
When we talk to our[br]significant others, our spouses,

0:08:15.882,0:08:17.843
we lie in about one out of ten of those.

0:08:19.523,0:08:20.583
Hmm.

0:08:21.023,0:08:22.923
(Laughter)

0:08:22.923,0:08:27.419
Now, all that lying[br]might not be a problem

0:08:28.259,0:08:30.312
if we were good at detecting lies.

0:08:30.742,0:08:33.052
And actually if you ask people,[br]most people think

0:08:33.052,0:08:36.911
they're pretty good at detecting lies,[br]particularly in people they know well,

0:08:36.911,0:08:39.211
like their children [br]or their significant others.

0:08:40.191,0:08:42.138
But again, when you look at the data,

0:08:42.138,0:08:43.553
that's not true.

0:08:43.853,0:08:47.442
And I wish I could tell you[br]that there is some magic bullet,

0:08:47.442,0:08:49.561
some magic finding from researching.

0:08:49.721,0:08:52.822
Goodness knows there are people out there[br]who will tell you that

0:08:53.112,0:08:55.413
because they teach seminars,[br]and they sell books,

0:08:55.413,0:08:57.305
and they train police officers.

0:08:57.713,0:08:59.336
But what the research says

0:08:59.836,0:09:03.281
is that if you look at the ability[br]of having a conversation with someone

0:09:03.281,0:09:06.073
and detecting whether[br]they're telling you the truth or not,

0:09:06.073,0:09:08.842
your accuracy is about 54 percent.

0:09:09.932,0:09:12.674
If you flip a coin, it's 50 percent.

0:09:13.834,0:09:15.321
What terrible it is.

0:09:16.761,0:09:20.148
And it turns out there just[br]really isn't much to find.

0:09:20.478,0:09:23.914
You know, I can ask that question, "Why?[br]Why are we so bad at this?"

0:09:24.273,0:09:25.913
And I think there are two reasons.

0:09:26.493,0:09:28.624
One has to do with our motivations.

0:09:29.144,0:09:31.495
And there's a very large [br]psychological literature

0:09:31.495,0:09:34.513
about how we make decisions,[br]and I think it's appropriate here.

0:09:34.513,0:09:37.706
And I don't have time to tell you [br]all the details of that research,

0:09:37.706,0:09:40.874
but I can capture it for you [br]from some literature.

0:09:41.564,0:09:43.704
There was a fantasy book[br]that was very popular

0:09:43.704,0:09:44.944
about 10 years ago

0:09:45.294,0:09:47.335
written by a fellow named Terry Goodkind;

0:09:47.335,0:09:49.204
it's called The Wizard's First Rule.

0:09:49.924,0:09:51.931
And the wizard's first rule is this:

0:09:52.691,0:09:54.528
With a little bit of motivation,

0:09:55.538,0:10:00.226
almost anybody can be led[br]to believe almost anything,

0:10:01.056,0:10:04.883
either because:[br]1) they want to believe it's true,

0:10:05.843,0:10:08.785
or 2) they're afraid that it's true.

0:10:10.405,0:10:14.665
I want you to think about that [br]for a little while and just process that.

0:10:14.665,0:10:18.655
But, you know, that captures[br]an awful lot of psychological research.

0:10:18.655,0:10:20.118
So that's one problem we have.

0:10:20.118,0:10:24.164
Our motives get in our way [in] how[br]we interpret the data that we see.

0:10:25.463,0:10:28.934
The other is that it turns out,[br]it is just really hard to do this.

0:10:29.341,0:10:34.176
There is very little in the body language,[br]and in the voice, and in the face

0:10:34.546,0:10:36.076
that gives away liars.

0:10:36.756,0:10:37.985
And the reason for that[br]

0:10:37.985,0:10:41.185
is that the very things[br]that make the liar nervous,

0:10:41.625,0:10:43.725
they're afraid they're going[br]to get caught -

0:10:43.725,0:10:44.935
it does cause changes;

0:10:44.935,0:10:46.716
people do get anxious about that;

0:10:46.716,0:10:48.455
they do alter their behavior.

0:10:49.855,0:10:52.376
But the truthful person -[br]think about Jeffrey -

0:10:52.614,0:10:55.055
the truthful person[br]who is talking to people,

0:10:55.055,0:10:56.900
who he thinks don't believe them,

0:10:57.190,0:11:01.039
you have fear that you're not going[br]to be believed when you're truthful.

0:11:01.266,0:11:04.503
And the body language you give off[br]is exactly the same.

0:11:07.021,0:11:08.835
So, where does that leave us?

0:11:09.415,0:11:11.177
Well, science hasn't given up.

0:11:11.717,0:11:13.645
And one approach is technology.

0:11:14.605,0:11:16.752
I've been involved[br]in one of the technologies

0:11:16.752,0:11:19.397
for most of my adult life,[br]and that's polygraph testing.

0:11:19.684,0:11:22.906
I was trained as a polygraph tester[br]and have done that work,

0:11:23.567,0:11:26.837
and although there's a lot[br]of mythology about polygraph,

0:11:26.947,0:11:29.177
what the science says is that:

0:11:29.177,0:11:32.957
Properly conducted polygraph tests[br]can be rather accurate.

0:11:34.543,0:11:38.398
In the lab, we can easily get[br]test accuracies up around 90 percent,

0:11:38.768,0:11:41.678
and there are field studies [br]that have replicated that,

0:11:42.598,0:11:44.528
but there's a problem with polygraph.

0:11:44.528,0:11:47.737
One is it requires a skilled[br]examiner to run the test.

0:11:48.667,0:11:51.148
And a test takes two hours.

0:11:51.788,0:11:54.418
So you need an instrument,[br]an examiner, and two hours.

0:11:54.726,0:11:56.498
Most of the time, we don't have that;

0:11:56.498,0:11:58.279
it's really expensive in that regard.

0:11:59.099,0:12:01.379
The other problem is[br]there are police agencies

0:12:01.379,0:12:04.679
like the one that Jeffrey Deskovic[br]got involved in,

0:12:05.479,0:12:09.629
where they used the polygraph[br]as a pretense for interrogation.

0:12:10.310,0:12:12.759
And the polygraph[br]is very dangerous in that setting.

0:12:14.539,0:12:18.913
Recent research has just reported[br]that [if] you look at the FBI -

0:12:19.103,0:12:20.466
and the FBI is an agency

0:12:20.466,0:12:23.230
that uses polygraph [br]as a pretense to interrogate -

0:12:23.960,0:12:25.648
if you are actually innocent,

0:12:25.648,0:12:28.660
and you agree to take[br]a polygraph from the FBI,

0:12:28.990,0:12:33.868
your chance of not being interrogated[br]is only 20 percent.

0:12:36.047,0:12:39.238
Four out of five innocent people[br]get interrogated.

0:12:41.537,0:12:42.959
There are other technologies.

0:12:42.959,0:12:46.004
There are some new ones[br]that look at the central nervous system.

0:12:46.004,0:12:48.213
So there's EEG and the fMRI.

0:12:49.223,0:12:51.411
And again, they involve [br]expensive equipment.

0:12:51.711,0:12:53.890
They've looked interesting [br]in the laboratory,

0:12:54.160,0:12:56.527
and they haven't made it out [br]into the field.

0:12:58.200,0:12:59.360
There's also a new test[br]

0:12:59.360,0:13:02.520
called an ocular-motor[br]detection of deception test

0:13:02.930,0:13:04.210
that looks at the eyes.

0:13:04.736,0:13:07.591
So the pupils of our eyes[br]do get smaller and larger

0:13:07.979,0:13:09.180
as we are processing.

0:13:09.440,0:13:11.991
It is harder to lie[br]than it is to tell the truth.

0:13:13.031,0:13:14.650
And those tests are around.

0:13:14.650,0:13:17.091
There's some research on them[br]that looks promising.

0:13:17.430,0:13:19.641
We're waiting for more data[br]to come in on this.

0:13:19.891,0:13:22.631
And we will need to see[br]if they'll move out into the field

0:13:22.631,0:13:23.821
and be useable.

0:13:25.131,0:13:26.909
The final area, though, comes back -

0:13:26.909,0:13:30.019
the problem with all those technologies[br]is that they're expensive.

0:13:30.389,0:13:31.739
You're not going to use that

0:13:31.739,0:13:34.103
if you want to talk[br]to somebody who works for you,

0:13:34.103,0:13:35.212
or you want to find out

0:13:35.212,0:13:37.650
whether your spouse[br]is telling you the truth or not.

0:13:38.860,0:13:44.155
And so, are there ways that we can improve[br]interpersonal detection of deception

0:13:44.431,0:13:47.482
and reading body language,[br]and face, and all that doesn't work?

0:13:48.032,0:13:50.850
But there are ways we can go about that

0:13:50.851,0:13:55.442
because what the research says[br]is that what people say

0:13:55.442,0:13:58.102
is way more important[br]than how they say it.

0:13:59.972,0:14:02.794
So, there's an interview technique [br]that's been developed -

0:14:03.124,0:14:07.835
it's a forensic interview technique -[br]and it's really pretty much common sense.

0:14:08.042,0:14:09.079
But, of course,

0:14:09.079,0:14:11.109
common sense often isn't common.

0:14:12.369,0:14:14.605
And all this technique really does involve

0:14:14.605,0:14:17.958
is letting the person[br]you're interested in assessing

0:14:17.958,0:14:19.342
tell their story.

0:14:20.852,0:14:22.253
It's called a free narrative.

0:14:22.253,0:14:24.265
So, you literally do just that.

0:14:24.545,0:14:26.107
"Tell me what happened."

0:14:26.677,0:14:28.422
And then you have to stop talking.

0:14:28.932,0:14:31.002
A lot of us find that really hard to do.

0:14:31.222,0:14:33.553
That's not how we have [br]conversations with people.

0:14:33.553,0:14:35.484
Conversations usually go back and forth.

0:14:35.894,0:14:39.085
But in this case, you want to just[br]ask them to tell you their story,

0:14:39.085,0:14:40.916
and then stop talking, and listen.

0:14:42.581,0:14:45.534
Listen carefully, take notes.

0:14:46.534,0:14:47.835
If you have facts,

0:14:49.755,0:14:51.592
there are things you know to be true,

0:14:52.152,0:14:53.549
don't tell them about those.

0:14:53.549,0:14:55.652
If they contradict them,[br]don't confront them.

0:14:55.973,0:14:57.793
Just listen until they finish.

0:14:58.713,0:15:02.605
And then when they finish,[br]you strategically use your evidence.

0:15:03.273,0:15:05.329
It's called "the strategic[br]use of evidence."

0:15:05.329,0:15:06.439
Isn't that surprising?

0:15:06.439,0:15:07.749
(Laughter)

0:15:08.189,0:15:10.064
So the person finishes their story.

0:15:10.274,0:15:11.826
You've been listening carefully.

0:15:11.826,0:15:15.586
You know X happened,[br]but they never mentioned X.

0:15:16.021,0:15:18.385
And so you go, "Well, I'm confused.

0:15:20.152,0:15:24.735
I know that at this time X happened,[br]but you didn't talk about that.

0:15:24.735,0:15:25.974
Can you tell me why?"

0:15:26.654,0:15:30.147
And for the innocent person,[br]most likely it is they just forgot.

0:15:31.194,0:15:34.116
Because when we tell stories[br]about things we have experienced,

0:15:34.116,0:15:35.455
and they're true stories,

0:15:35.455,0:15:37.916
we often forget to tell about the details.

0:15:37.916,0:15:39.766
We often have to go back and fix it.

0:15:39.766,0:15:42.985
Think about talking to a friend[br]about something that happened to you

0:15:42.985,0:15:44.045
just recently.

0:15:45.275,0:15:47.991
And you'll know that that's true.[br]We do that all the time.

0:15:48.031,0:15:49.240
For the innocent person,

0:15:49.240,0:15:52.551
that new evidence is easy [br]to incorporate into their story

0:15:52.551,0:15:54.283
because it's in fact true.

0:15:54.283,0:15:55.277
Their story is true.

0:15:55.277,0:15:58.046
"Oh, I just forgot to tell you that.[br]This is blah blah ..."

0:15:58.046,0:15:59.422
And they fill it in.

0:16:00.252,0:16:03.462
For the liar, it's much more difficult.

0:16:04.282,0:16:05.475
Because the liar -

0:16:05.475,0:16:08.756
you know, the first rule of lying[br]is you got to keep the lie straight.

0:16:08.756,0:16:11.038
And so they've now told you [br]their whole story.

0:16:12.248,0:16:14.662
And now you've given them [br]a new piece of evidence.

0:16:14.662,0:16:17.188
They've got to work a lot harder [br]to put that back in.

0:16:17.928,0:16:21.488
And if you have more pieces of evidence,[br]you strategically introduce them

0:16:21.488,0:16:22.739
one at a time.

0:16:23.159,0:16:24.417
And what we find is[br]

0:16:24.677,0:16:29.486
that with people who are outright lying,[br]their stories eventually collapse

0:16:29.486,0:16:33.484
because they just can't keep up[br]with the influx of new evidence.

0:16:35.309,0:16:38.200
So, I want to end up with two ideas.

0:16:39.010,0:16:42.917
One is that you have to talk to somebody[br]and try to make an assessment

0:16:42.917,0:16:44.999
about whether they're being[br]truthful or not.

0:16:45.259,0:16:46.259
Listen.

0:16:46.259,0:16:51.391
Listen carefully to what they have to say[br]and remember that what they say

0:16:51.751,0:16:54.167
is far more important[br]than how they say it.

0:16:54.937,0:16:57.358
Because even innocent people[br]can look very nervous.

0:16:58.468,0:16:59.658
And the other one is:[br]

0:16:59.838,0:17:02.058
Don't believe anything

0:17:02.838,0:17:05.598
just because you want[br]to believe that it's true

0:17:06.828,0:17:09.158
or because you're afraid that it's true.

0:17:10.408,0:17:13.347
Our relationships, our lives,

0:17:14.517,0:17:17.114
our country, the world, in fact,

0:17:17.404,0:17:19.024
may well depend upon that.

0:17:19.574,0:17:20.829
Thank you very much.

0:17:20.839,0:17:23.879
(Applause)