0:00:00.299,0:00:05.610
Herald: Hello, and welcome back to the FM-[br]channel. Our next speaker is Kai Konsa.

0:00:05.610,0:00:11.340
He's a professor at the Graduate School of[br]Media Design at Cairo University Japan.

0:00:11.340,0:00:15.870
His talk will be about focus on Wirfs.[br]From what I understood is that it's about

0:00:15.870,0:00:20.930
shivers and goosebumps in media[br]performances that are usually spontaneous.

0:00:20.930,0:00:27.140
But somehow he and his team managed to[br]induce them artificially. But I'm very

0:00:27.140,0:00:33.560
forward. I'm looking very forward to this[br]talk as I don't really understand it. But

0:00:33.560,0:00:40.520
now, if you want to ask questions in the[br]end, RC at the Channel rc3-fm in the

0:00:40.520,0:00:46.129
rocket chat at the Channel FM and on[br]Twitter, and the videos and the hashtag

0:00:46.129,0:00:51.210
3FM without the Dash, you can ask[br]questions that will be answered in the Q&A

0:00:51.210,0:00:53.790
session afterwards.[br]*repated but on english*

0:00:53.790,0:00:58.590
Allardyce parking Seotioa your current[br]idea that some 200 images of a player for

0:00:58.590,0:01:04.830
native of translated and that and now I'm[br]looking forward to a hopefully very

0:01:04.830,0:01:09.770
interesting talk.[br]Konsa: Hello and welcome to my talk

0:01:09.770,0:01:16.630
"Frisson Waves", augmenting esthetic[br]chills in classical music performances.

0:01:16.630,0:01:25.830
This is conceptual, early research work[br]from collaboration of a lot of artists,

0:01:25.830,0:01:33.799
designers, researchers, and I'm just[br]speaker to introduce it to you a little

0:01:33.799,0:01:39.729
bit. My name is Kai. And in the next 20[br]minutes, I will talk to you a little bit

0:01:39.729,0:01:46.580
about what is Frisson. Give you a bit of[br]motivation and background information, why

0:01:46.580,0:01:55.320
we are interested in this feeling. And[br]then I will talk about how can we

0:01:55.320,0:02:03.380
recognize into youth and also share[br]Frisson. And then at the end, I'll talk

0:02:03.380,0:02:11.620
about some conclusion and a little bit of[br]outlook. So the question is, what is

0:02:11.620,0:02:18.480
Frisson? You might not have heard the[br]term, I actually haven't heard Frisson

0:02:18.480,0:02:25.840
before we started the research. Two and a[br]half years, three years ago. But I

0:02:25.840,0:02:31.849
definitely knew the feeling. So if you're[br]listening attentively to a musical piece,

0:02:31.849,0:02:39.480
sometimes you might get goose bumps or[br]some shiver down your spine. And that is

0:02:39.480,0:02:46.650
usually triggered from the music. Frisson[br]is from the French shivers and sorry, my

0:02:46.650,0:02:55.800
pronunciation with the German accent. So[br]you applied for that, I hope. And it's

0:02:55.800,0:03:01.849
this psycho physiological phenomenon, that[br]we feel when we get these goose bumps or

0:03:01.849,0:03:11.519
shivers that are triggered from music, but[br]also other. If you insist and you might

0:03:11.519,0:03:20.610
wonder why goosebumps, how can goosebumps[br]be related to a positive feeling? There is

0:03:20.610,0:03:32.819
actually no need to answer theories. I'm[br]one that I particularly like, is that

0:03:32.819,0:03:37.319
Frisson is often induced over music or[br]over some kind of stimulus that is

0:03:37.319,0:03:42.361
repetitive, that has a certain pattern,[br]and that at one point the pattern breaks

0:03:42.361,0:03:50.629
and that surprises you. So this triggers[br]your autonomous nervous system. So the

0:03:50.629,0:03:56.099
fight or flight response you get to[br]surprise you wonder alertness goes up and

0:03:56.099,0:04:03.370
you realize that there's no danger and you[br]will relax. And feel this esthetic chills.

0:04:03.370,0:04:13.349
So the talk, I will give today is an[br]exploration of the feeling of Frisson with

0:04:13.349,0:04:21.500
technology. So how could we detect, induce[br]or transmit it using especially variable

0:04:21.500,0:04:26.419
sensors and actuators and to be a little[br]bit aclimactic? I can already tell you

0:04:26.419,0:04:33.340
that this is still in process. So this is[br]really exploratory work. However, you

0:04:33.340,0:04:42.540
might also wonder why do you care about[br]this? Why do you want to do this? And you

0:04:42.540,0:04:48.880
know, one reason, of course, is. Because[br]we can and because it's fun, and I think

0:04:48.880,0:04:55.510
that's definitely, you know, kind of one[br]aspect of of the research, however. Also

0:04:55.510,0:05:02.509
another reason is so our lab in Yokohama[br]works in human factors, research, so HCI

0:05:02.509,0:05:09.130
and human computer interaction. And we[br]lately revisited a lot of work also from

0:05:09.130,0:05:16.550
cybernetics, also nonlinear dynamics in[br]terms of research and also in terms of art

0:05:16.550,0:05:22.550
and performance. We are very much inspired[br]by Stilnox work on extending and

0:05:22.550,0:05:31.430
augmenting our body. And there's this[br]realization, if you work on research that,

0:05:31.430,0:05:35.560
you know, knowledge is not merely[br]functional, there's always some kind of

0:05:35.560,0:05:42.650
enjoyment in understanding a concept. And[br]I think also this community will really

0:05:42.650,0:05:47.880
understand that type of feeling and this[br]sense of wonder and this feeling we also

0:05:47.880,0:05:53.760
want to explore. We want to understand[br]ourselves better in terms of cognition

0:05:53.760,0:06:00.660
perception, but also in terms of our[br]feeling. And actually, last year, I gave

0:06:00.660,0:06:06.960
also a talk on on boiling mind on an[br]Frisson loop that we played with and

0:06:06.960,0:06:12.460
started researching on. And to some[br]extent, this expression. If this all beef

0:06:12.460,0:06:17.400
talk is just the continuation of this, and[br]overall, we are also looking for more

0:06:17.400,0:06:23.880
creative ways to use physiological data or[br]other wearable computing sensing that is

0:06:23.880,0:06:33.000
not related to surveillance. So extended[br]to this, we also wonder what does it mean

0:06:33.000,0:06:40.449
to be life? It's easy if you think about[br]transmitting audio video, easy in

0:06:40.449,0:06:45.490
quotation marks because yeah, there are[br]some experts that know a lot about that.

0:06:45.490,0:06:53.220
And I see also the effort that goes into[br]the remote experience and not the

0:06:53.220,0:06:59.430
congresses or conferences. However, we[br]still don't know how to transmit an

0:06:59.430,0:07:05.250
atmosphere or a feeling that's much more[br]difficult. I think the Congress is a very

0:07:05.250,0:07:11.430
nice example for that because it moved[br]from Berlin to Hamburg to Leipzig. But

0:07:11.430,0:07:17.139
every time I visited, I kind of felt at[br]home. I felt, Oh yeah, these are, you

0:07:17.139,0:07:23.319
know, kind of the people I like. These are[br]the culture, the community I belong to,

0:07:23.319,0:07:29.050
even though it's at different places. And[br]we wonder, you know, kind of how can we

0:07:29.050,0:07:36.569
transmit at this type of feeling and to[br]efforts that we get inspired from from

0:07:36.569,0:07:42.340
this work is one is neuro life. That's a[br]project, an EU project with co-

0:07:42.340,0:07:50.330
investigator Jamie Ward and also[br]cybernetic being project here in Japan,

0:07:50.330,0:07:56.560
headed by Quarterman Minami. So that deals[br]with things like parallel agency and

0:07:56.560,0:08:01.259
similar. And both of them are actually[br]also collaborators in the work that I will

0:08:01.259,0:08:07.630
present today. So this is the high level[br]overview why we are interested in this

0:08:07.630,0:08:14.710
song, but now getting back to the esthetic[br]chills. And first, the question is how

0:08:14.710,0:08:22.620
could we go about and try to detect or[br]recognize them? Looking into related work,

0:08:22.620,0:08:29.800
of course, we'll see Frisson is that[br]chills, of course, affect our physiology.

0:08:29.800,0:08:35.090
And the first thing that you notice is, of[br]course, the payload erection. So the goose

0:08:35.090,0:08:40.710
bumps that you can get on your arm so the[br]hairs go up. So we could try to detect

0:08:40.710,0:08:44.990
that. However, that might be a little bit[br]difficult because some people might not

0:08:44.990,0:08:53.690
have so much hair on on them and so on. So[br]then looking into other physiological

0:08:53.690,0:09:00.940
changes, respiratory rate is going up for[br]the sweat glands, electro dermal activity.

0:09:00.940,0:09:05.690
You will see more peaks. That's a stress[br]and excitement indicator, and heart rate

0:09:05.690,0:09:10.890
goes up, blood pressure goes up and[br]usually heart rate variability related

0:09:10.890,0:09:17.209
features go down. Because also, if you saw[br]last year's talk, we already built a

0:09:17.209,0:09:25.329
system to record electro dermal activity.[br]So the sweating on the hand as well as

0:09:25.329,0:09:34.050
heart rate we just thought will move along[br]and use that. Luckily, we also did a

0:09:34.050,0:09:38.760
redesign of the wristband bands in the[br]meantime, so they look a little bit nicer

0:09:38.760,0:09:45.260
now and you see also a life demo on my[br]background right now. So you see EDA and

0:09:45.260,0:09:54.300
heart rate behind and if I press here. You[br]should also see some noise on the sensor.

0:09:54.300,0:10:03.149
The visualization, by the way, is done by[br]Kirill Ragodzin. So thanks for the work!

0:10:03.149,0:10:08.990
And then moving forward, so we use these[br]wristbands to set up a controlled

0:10:08.990,0:10:14.810
experiment to detect esthetic chill[br]events. We just added a trigger, so to add

0:10:14.810,0:10:19.620
some self-reporting to it. So in this[br]case, we really use the user as a self-

0:10:19.620,0:10:27.470
report to classify or to label the Frisson[br]events that has, of course, you know, also

0:10:27.470,0:10:33.520
some limitations. So you hope that that's[br]good enough to capture it. And we used

0:10:33.520,0:10:39.740
some music pieces also from related work[br]and did some counterbalancing and run this

0:10:39.740,0:10:48.700
lab study just in know kind of controlled[br]space or with headphones and so on. We

0:10:48.700,0:10:54.640
finished this, but then we also wondered,[br]you know, how does it look like in real

0:10:54.640,0:11:02.560
life in the wild experiments? So we also[br]organized a concert. With 18 audience

0:11:02.560,0:11:08.800
members for one album musical program, and[br]the set up was the same, so everybody got

0:11:08.800,0:11:15.620
a wristband and a trigger. We also added a[br]third for the pianist, so using EDA from

0:11:15.620,0:11:23.470
the foot actually works also relatively[br]well and then recorded here the data and

0:11:23.470,0:11:35.829
hope that people would report their focus[br]on their esthetic chills. Here's now one

0:11:35.829,0:12:32.310
video. A short minute video that shows you[br]the recording. *piano music* How about the

0:12:32.310,0:12:39.400
analysis? I have to see? I'm sorry the[br]this is still ongoing, so we don't really

0:12:39.400,0:12:43.710
have a lot of results yet. And of course,[br]there were a lot of issues with the life

0:12:43.710,0:12:48.810
recording. If you're interested in doing[br]something similar, contact some of the

0:12:48.810,0:12:54.810
technical stuff or also me. We can give[br]you hints and doing this now over 15 or 20

0:12:54.810,0:13:00.300
years and always do something is going[br]wrong, depending on the setting and so on.

0:13:00.300,0:13:05.490
Now I also know more about the classical[br]music concerts. However, we got some

0:13:05.490,0:13:11.000
useful data. The problem there was we[br]could also train a machine learning model

0:13:11.000,0:13:16.010
because we really wanted to dect it real[br]time. And it seemed to work really well.

0:13:16.010,0:13:22.520
We are just still not sure if it really[br]works or not, so we want to be very

0:13:22.520,0:13:26.410
careful about that. So we get higher[br]accuracy spec. But given the limited

0:13:26.410,0:13:31.800
amount of uses we had also and we want to[br]look into that a little bit more. However,

0:13:31.800,0:13:36.220
the analysis, as well as the data sets,[br]will be publicly available. And if you

0:13:36.220,0:13:41.279
want to get them a little bit earlier to[br]also contact me. So then moving on, this

0:13:41.279,0:13:46.940
is the progress on detection. How does it[br]look like for triggering or inducing

0:13:46.940,0:13:55.899
Frisson? So there's also a lot of cool[br]related work. I just show or highlight two

0:13:55.899,0:14:03.350
of them. One is work by Shoko Fukushima at[br]all. And they're using the electrostatic

0:14:03.350,0:14:12.250
effect on the arm to control payload[br]erection. And they use it to increase the

0:14:12.250,0:14:17.670
surprise feeling of somebody, so you put[br]your arm inside and they can control the

0:14:17.670,0:14:24.060
payload erection. Other work is from Ha at[br]all, whether using three Peltier elements

0:14:24.060,0:14:31.550
on your back, on your spine and deactivate[br]them upwards to also induce Frisson or

0:14:31.550,0:14:39.610
static chills. The problem with those two[br]setups, it's quite hard to get them into a

0:14:39.610,0:14:44.190
into a concert hall. And, you know, some[br]people might not really have much hair on

0:14:44.190,0:14:49.699
their arms or so on, so there might be[br]limitations for it. So then, you know, for

0:14:49.699,0:14:56.009
first iteration, we decided to go for a[br]neck prototype, because kind of the neck

0:14:56.009,0:15:02.620
is also a part of some of the Frisson[br]responses. So you get either chills down

0:15:02.620,0:15:08.509
the spine or up the neck or also your hair[br]might stand up. So we thought it's a good

0:15:08.509,0:15:12.630
start and we used first healthy elements[br]or thermal modules and also vibrant

0:15:12.630,0:15:18.350
tactile feedback. In later iterations we[br]moved just to a thermal feedback to

0:15:18.350,0:15:25.009
activate this on the back of the neck[br]around on the upper side of the trapezius

0:15:25.009,0:15:32.260
muscle, and they would activate with[br]slight cold feedback. So for an initial

0:15:32.260,0:15:37.940
tests, it seemed to work or just this,[br]just with 10 participants, around 30

0:15:37.940,0:15:44.380
minutes per participant, we had two music[br]pieces that are based on related works or

0:15:44.380,0:15:51.080
Chopin and Gustav Holst. We counterbalance[br]the conditions or music pieces with

0:15:51.080,0:15:56.880
neckband without neck bent with neck bent,[br]with activation and without activation.

0:15:56.880,0:16:03.570
And from an initial test, we can see that[br]it seems that slight cold feedback really

0:16:03.570,0:16:09.010
provides more instances of reported[br]Frisson. So there is a slight positive

0:16:09.010,0:16:12.139
feedback, but you know, it was still quite[br]little participants and we'll have to

0:16:12.139,0:16:17.750
continue and see also with a little bit of[br]redesign. So we want to change the order

0:16:17.750,0:16:25.130
and placement of the pelty elements for[br]the continuation work as well. Now moving

0:16:25.130,0:16:30.650
to the last part, so we talked about[br]detection, induction, and now let's talk

0:16:30.650,0:16:37.880
about sharing or transmitting Frisson. He[br]had the idea would be, you know, you are

0:16:37.880,0:16:45.199
listening to a musical piece, a classical[br]piece and one person gets Frisson, does

0:16:45.199,0:16:52.230
this detect it over the wristband and then[br]it's distributed ripples through the

0:16:52.230,0:17:00.670
neighbors? They get activated over the[br]Nick Bend and hopefully also free Frisson

0:17:00.670,0:17:08.309
again around the same time it just after[br]the red circled person felt that the

0:17:08.309,0:17:13.199
esthetic chills. So in this case, then,[br]you know, we would have all of the

0:17:13.199,0:17:18.309
audience members need to wear sensors and[br]actuators, and we would need to freshen

0:17:18.309,0:17:27.530
detection and also then the activation[br]based on that. And for that, we also

0:17:27.530,0:17:33.700
organized a not a concert in this case, 50[br]audience members. The program was around

0:17:33.700,0:17:43.270
1,5 hours. And the set up was, as you see[br]here. So performers on the top, and then

0:17:43.270,0:17:51.340
we had two sections. One saw 25 users[br]would wear just the wristband as a kind of

0:17:51.340,0:17:58.360
control group. And the second group, 25[br]users would wear wristband and neck bent,

0:17:58.360,0:18:02.929
so it would get to actually the detection[br]and also the activation. That's all, you

0:18:02.929,0:18:10.180
know, 50 plus wristbands needed charging[br]and 25 neck bands were manufactured, and

0:18:10.180,0:18:18.000
this is the picture from the actual[br]concert with an nick bent section. And

0:18:18.000,0:18:22.640
here is how this should work, so, you[br]know, you have first one person, you

0:18:22.640,0:18:29.960
detect the Frisson and then you ripple it[br]out to the neighbors, then the next person

0:18:29.960,0:18:34.710
might feel Frisson we detected over the[br]wristband and then replay it out to the

0:18:34.710,0:18:40.680
other people that haven't gotten[br]activation yet and so on. So you have then

0:18:40.680,0:18:50.559
a wave of Frisson hopefully moving through[br]the audience members. This is not a setup

0:18:50.559,0:18:54.720
up, yab he (NAME!) who also did a lot of[br]the organization parts or so on at the

0:18:54.720,0:19:02.630
piano, and he is then a small video that[br]summarizes the work. And at the end you

0:19:02.630,0:19:08.090
see also the servers, the recording[br]server, the activation server and the I

0:19:08.090,0:19:38.100
know the detection server and also the[br]activation server. *piano music playes*

0:19:38.100,0:20:25.070
*one person plays piano, another plays[br]chello* So the question you might have

0:20:25.070,0:20:35.140
now, did it work? Hmm. Not not completely[br]sure. Again, here, work in progress or

0:20:35.140,0:20:39.870
analysis is ongoing, and we can't also[br]really see because, yeah, we had this

0:20:39.870,0:20:44.890
control group and we could see more[br]Frisson events in the sharing group. But

0:20:44.890,0:20:49.460
how to interpret that, that's really,[br]really difficult. We are also working on

0:20:49.460,0:20:54.049
the design of the wristbands as well as[br]the neckband and especially for the

0:20:54.049,0:20:59.570
neckband. We got a couple of uses, I think[br]five or six or seven that really didn't

0:20:59.570,0:21:05.909
like the neckband, not the activations or[br]the slight called activation was OK, but

0:21:05.909,0:21:10.870
just because it was a little bit too tight[br]and a little bit too uncomfortable. So

0:21:10.870,0:21:16.049
we're working on a redesign we have for[br]the next concert in april. All of the data

0:21:16.049,0:21:23.130
make it also publicly available. Soon[br]enough, look also a little bit more what

0:21:23.130,0:21:27.880
we can find out about what happened. This[br]brings me to the end of the presentation.

0:21:27.880,0:21:34.590
I hope you enjoyed it. Yeah, I just wanted[br]to thank a couple of people first and

0:21:34.590,0:21:44.370
foremost Yann He, who organized this[br]Frisson , who introduced us. And also the

0:21:44.370,0:21:49.180
teams are dismissed for their second[br]concert. The extended team thanks a lot

0:21:49.180,0:21:54.720
for everybody who was involved here, then[br]also all of the names. So these are the

0:21:54.720,0:21:58.750
people that did the actual work did not[br]just doing the presenting like I do right

0:21:58.750,0:22:04.980
now. I hope I haven't missed anybody. So[br]also, thanks to George, Dingding, Denny

0:22:04.980,0:22:10.470
and so on and all of the other people[br]involved in group planning the studio

0:22:10.470,0:22:19.529
Apollo and also the piano NIST's and[br]interactive performers. So thanks a lot.

0:22:19.529,0:22:27.270
Yeah, that brings me to the end of the[br]presentation. As I said, we have a third

0:22:27.270,0:22:31.320
concert, probably in April next year in[br]Yokohama, Tokyo area. So if you're

0:22:31.320,0:22:36.670
interested, let me know also if you have a[br]general interest in effect or similar

0:22:36.670,0:22:43.400
phenomenon. Also, just write me an email.[br]It would be good if you mentioned Frisson

0:22:43.400,0:22:49.750
remote experience in the subject, so I can[br]just filter that out and something

0:22:49.750,0:22:54.820
completely different. We also have a[br]conference next year. March submission

0:22:54.820,0:23:01.110
deadline is January 7th, augmented humans[br]in Japan and Germany and cyberspace that

0:23:01.110,0:23:11.419
deals with maybe similar work. So thanks a[br]lot for listening and I hope. Yeah, I told

0:23:11.419,0:23:16.850
you something interested in the last 20[br]minutes. By.

0:23:16.850,0:23:21.620
Herald: Hello, and welcome back to the FM[br]Channel, thank you Kay for the very

0:23:21.620,0:23:25.400
interesting talk, and Kay should actually[br]be with us to answer a few questions.

0:23:25.400,0:23:27.400
Hello, Kay.[br]Kay: Hello.

0:23:27.400,0:23:33.210
Herald: And we actually do have a few[br]questions already. And the first one

0:23:33.210,0:23:39.279
sounds a bit more like a comment, but I[br]tell you anyway. So one one viewer noted

0:23:39.279,0:23:42.960
that this a technical cybernetics and[br]systems course here in Illmenau, the two

0:23:42.960,0:23:46.980
in the know and wanted to know if you were[br]aware of this already.

0:23:46.980,0:23:53.881
Kay: Actually, it wasn't, but it sounds[br]that sounds quite fun and getting more and

0:23:53.881,0:23:57.762
more interested in cybernetics as well.[br]And I think it's useful to revisit some of

0:23:57.762,0:24:03.730
the ideas around feedback loops, as I said[br]at the beginning. So that's cool if you if

0:24:03.730,0:24:08.000
you're already looking into that. And I[br]think especially if people go into HCI

0:24:08.000,0:24:12.240
fields, I think it's quite useful to get a[br]little bit of that background.

0:24:12.240,0:24:17.809
Herald: Yes, nice. OK, let's go to the[br]next question. It's about neural networks,

0:24:17.809,0:24:22.620
which have the neural network was us. Have[br]you considered neural net different doing

0:24:22.620,0:24:27.240
differential equations such as echo-state[br]network or reservoir computing, which are

0:24:27.240,0:24:30.490
good when modeling stiff time[br]consciousness processes?

0:24:30.490,0:24:37.039
Kay: That's actually a really good[br]question and actually also good hint for

0:24:37.039,0:24:42.460
what to do next. I just tried to look up.[br]I saw the question already. Also in the

0:24:42.460,0:24:47.200
chat, I try to look up what we used, and I[br]think at the beginning we just used

0:24:47.200,0:24:52.149
support vector machines, so not neural[br]networks. And no, no, we are using some

0:24:52.149,0:24:57.940
neural network, but I don't know the[br]configuration and I couldn't check. I'll

0:24:57.940,0:25:03.480
get back to the person who asked the[br]question. What was interesting for me was

0:25:03.480,0:25:08.559
that the the data looks already quite[br]good. The sensor data looks actually quite

0:25:08.559,0:25:15.610
good. And I would assume that in most[br]cases, any classifier will do a decent job

0:25:15.610,0:25:21.760
for the lab experiments for the other[br]works. I think, yeah, that sounds quite

0:25:21.760,0:25:29.000
interesting. I also want to go more[br]towards, um yeah, nonlinear dynamics work

0:25:29.000,0:25:35.700
as well in terms of of of estimating[br]Frisson or different feelings. But that's

0:25:35.700,0:25:41.140
that's a really good hint, that it would[br]be more question also for Jo Ann Hunt,

0:25:41.140,0:25:47.340
coauthor of the paper that is also linked.[br]She is our data analyst and so on, and

0:25:47.340,0:25:51.909
notes what what she used to the first[br]classifier was a support vector machine

0:25:51.909,0:25:56.130
fairly basic and I think recently we use a[br]neural network, but I thought it's just

0:25:56.130,0:26:01.810
very straightforward. PyTorch long[br]training, but nothing, nothing special and

0:26:01.810,0:26:06.020
nothing fancy so far.[br]Herald: OK, nice, I guess I guess she will

0:26:06.020,0:26:10.330
probably also hear from the questions[br]then. And then let's go to the next

0:26:10.330,0:26:15.620
question. Have you considered or tested[br]the effects of editorial stimulus, such as

0:26:15.620,0:26:20.890
attempting to cross Frisson Waves and in[br]boring situations instead of like

0:26:20.890,0:26:29.980
interesting ones?[br]Kay: That's also quite a good or

0:26:29.980,0:26:35.000
interesting question. I mean, there were[br]some some audience members also that

0:26:35.000,0:26:41.059
mentioned that Nick Bend was actually a[br]little bit uncomfortable. So I'm not

0:26:41.059,0:26:47.120
really sure if we cost Frisson with them.[br]And I don't know what would happen if you,

0:26:47.120,0:26:53.320
I think you probably would just make the[br]situation uncomfortable anyways. I'm not

0:26:53.320,0:27:00.710
sure what would happen then, if you[br]stimulating called feedback. Actually, you

0:27:00.710,0:27:05.710
might get the fear response in these cases[br]if you're in a boring situation, I'm not

0:27:05.710,0:27:12.909
sure if you if you. Hmm. Yeah, I actually[br]I don't know. It's definitely an

0:27:12.909,0:27:21.240
interesting idea to to use it in boring[br]situations. Can you get somebody to change

0:27:21.240,0:27:28.740
their? The feeling and get to the more[br]excited state? We are playing often, we

0:27:28.740,0:27:32.630
played a little bit with the thermal[br]feedback and it was always interesting if

0:27:32.630,0:27:37.450
you change the thermal feedback. So[br]instead of if you see something hot in VR,

0:27:37.450,0:27:42.230
you give cold stimulus or so on. It really[br]is a little bit confusing and interesting.

0:27:42.230,0:27:49.279
I haven't thought about that in Frisson[br]situation. And if it works for boring

0:27:49.279,0:27:53.480
work, but it's definitely cool or[br]interesting. So if somebody wants to play

0:27:53.480,0:27:58.850
with that, I would be up for also giving a[br]little bit of help or ideas in that

0:27:58.850,0:28:04.130
direction.[br]Herald: OK, thank you for. For answering

0:28:04.130,0:28:11.809
these questions, unfortunately, that don't[br]seem to be any more of them. So that's it.

0:28:11.809,0:28:16.260
Thank you very much for the very[br]interesting talk. That's a topic I haven't

0:28:16.260,0:28:22.040
really thinking that much about, but thank[br]you very much. It was very interesting.

0:28:22.040,0:28:26.340
Kay: Thanks a lot also for having me, and[br]it's always fun and I always enjoyed the

0:28:26.340,0:28:30.940
feedback. Yet there's also a candlelight[br]life demonstration behind me. So you saw

0:28:30.940,0:28:34.539
my excitement level kind of increasing or[br]decreasing with the questions.

0:28:34.539,0:28:38.680
Herald: Oh wow, that's pretty cool.[br]Kay: OK. Yeah, thanks a lot.

0:28:38.680,0:28:46.540
Herald: Then here and here on the FM[br]channel, the next thing happening will at

0:28:46.540,0:28:51.010
11:00 p.m. the lightening think talk or[br]not on the film channel. But one of the

0:28:51.010,0:28:56.059
next things happening at three will be at[br]11:00 p.m. The lightning talks at remote

0:28:56.059,0:29:02.210
range. And here on on our channel,[br]actually at 12:00 a.m. or midnight, there

0:29:02.210,0:29:13.750
will be the next terror news show. And[br]that until then by.