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Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:02.55,0:00:06.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Elissa Frankle is the Social Media \NStrategist and Community Manager
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.22,0:00:09.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at United States Holocaust Memorial \NMuseum here in Washington DC.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.14,0:00:14.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The title of her talk today is \N"Making History with the Masses:
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.01,0:00:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Citizen History and Radical Trust in Museums.\NSo please join me in welcoming Elissa.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.24,0:00:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) Before I start I just wanted \Nto thank you, the fine people
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.76,0:00:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here at MITH for inviting me in.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.58,0:00:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a Social Media Manager\NI don't usually spend a lot of time
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.16,0:00:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking in front of the audiences anymore.\NAs I am thinking of the community
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.57,0:00:35.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behind the computer. This is a really\Ntreat for me to actually be able
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.96,0:00:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to come out and talk with my voice about\Nthings that are important to me, one of those
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.58,0:00:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things being citizen history\Nin a world of our users, and the work
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.68,0:00:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we do, as museums and cultural organizations.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.75,0:00:51.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things that is really important\Nin all of this is just to look at
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.78,0:00:54.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the words that we use when we're\Ntalking about the way we interact
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.48,0:00:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with our users. So, in a sense\Nwhat we're going to talk about today
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.27,0:01:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is really what is citizen history?\NNot just "what is citizen history"
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.93,0:01:09.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a concept, but what is citizen,\Nwhat is history? And what's a museum?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.39,0:01:12.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Really big concepts, really interesting\Nthings and I don't promise to have
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.52,0:01:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the answers today, because \Nmost of these cases, there aren't
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.50,0:01:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,real answers. That is the best part.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.33,0:01:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we're going to try and get a little bit\Nof the why to explore some of these questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.19,0:01:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And see where we could get it\Nunlocking what would be the critical question,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.16,0:01:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what is citizen history,\Nand what can it be in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.58,0:01:35.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Citizen History kind of came into being,\Nfrom it's early origins in Citizen Science
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.82,0:01:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Crowdsourcing. Two other ways that\Nother fields have looked at using their
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.26,0:01:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public, to get down and dirty with their data.\NWe'll look at each of these in turn,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.56,0:01:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first of all, starting with crowdsourcing.\NNow, when you go to look at crowdsourcing
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.40,0:01:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the internet, one of the first sites \Nyou'll run into is crowdsource.com
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.34,0:01:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not surprisingly. And they promise \N500, 000 workers on demand.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.08,0:02:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what they promise for those workers\Nis that your data will be dealt with -- with results.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.98,0:02:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a speedy manner. So really using the crowd,\Nusing the number of people you can just get
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.22,0:02:08.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cranking away on some amount of data,\Nsome amount of rote tasks,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.75,0:02:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to produce whatever the desired result is.\NSo the question here with crowdsourcing
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.16,0:02:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't so much about big answers\Nand big interaction, but it's more about
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.91,0:02:22.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of people doing a lot of little things.\NMuseums and local organizations apply
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.58,0:02:26.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this crowdsourcing principle in a lot of\Ndifferent ways. One of the projects we're
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.85,0:02:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about at lunch actually is\NNew York Public Library\N
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.74,0:02:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's On the Menu Project, \Nand it's companion project
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.16,0:02:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recently released, or about-to-be released,\Nthe Ensemble Project.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.12,0:02:42.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in this case, transcribing menus,\Nand the other case, in transcribing playbills.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.48,0:02:46.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Taking what's on the menu, what is on the playbill,\Nwritten it down into it's component parts,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.30,0:02:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just saying, what do you see here,\Nwhat is the food that you see on this menu,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.70,0:02:55.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have someone transcribe that,\Nby some user. As a result, again, small task,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.45,0:02:58.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just transcription where you look at it,\Nwhat is it that you see, you write down
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.25,0:03:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever it is that you see.\NNo real depth of thought
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.19,0:03:04.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going into to it, but again, a lot of\Npeople working on a very small task
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.54,0:03:08.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a long time, creating big results.\NThe other form of crowdsourcing
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.38,0:03:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we see quite frequently\Nin cultural heritage organizations
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.40,0:03:16.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the idea of, not necessarily putting\Nlots of small tasks into play,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.79,0:03:19.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but working more from a \Nknowledge base, that the person has --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.81,0:03:23.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the user have some kind of knowledge\Nthat is personal to that person,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.71,0:03:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they then share with the Cultural\NHeritage Organization.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.46,0:03:30.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So again, not a lot of deep thought,\Ndeep interaction with content,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.27,0:03:33.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but a lot of sharing up, personally.\NSo rather than citizen history,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.42,0:03:36.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the topic of what we're going\Nto talk about next, we have the history
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.47,0:03:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of citizens, growing on this kind of\Ncrowdsourced environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.11,0:03:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you are going to talk about crowdsourcing\Nwe're going to talk about all these things,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.22,0:03:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with framework in Bloom's Taxonomy,\Nthis is an educational philosophy
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.56,0:03:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,framework developed by Benjamin Bloom.\NThey talk about the different ways that
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.22,0:03:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,students can engage with learning. \NEverything from just remembering,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.68,0:03:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of that rote level of "I see what it is, \NI think about it, I write it back down"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.92,0:04:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the regurgitation model of looking\Nat that knowledge, they're understanding it,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.60,0:04:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being able to classifying things, \Nup to application, they are able
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.00,0:04:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to choose to interpret, to draw\Nsome kind of conclusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.65,0:04:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all the way at the top, to creation.\NStarting from scratch, creating a product
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.57,0:04:19.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all by one's self. Crowdsourcing,\Nwe tend to think it comes down,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.53,0:04:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this remembering, understanding,\Nbasic level of proposition.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.69,0:04:28.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not to say there's not value in it,\Nbut it is just, it is very much on a rote level.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.06,0:04:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see what I have in front of me, \NI take it, I transcribe it, I translate it,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.64,0:04:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I spit it back out in a usable format.\NI have the knowledge in my head,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.49,0:04:38.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have some stories that I want to share\Nthat I've been asked to share.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.91,0:04:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I take it out of my head, \Nand I write it down, and then to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.99,0:04:47.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So crowdsourcing, microtasks,\Non a macro scale.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.51,0:04:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So lots of small things, lots of people together,\Nsharing their personal knowledge, or basic skills,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.43,0:04:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really relying on that wisdom of the crowd.\NSo by having a lot of people working on
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.06,0:05:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something together, eventually something\Nwill be completed, and answers will be given.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.25,0:05:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Citizen science goes a little bit higher up, \N[inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.65,0:05:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're going to look now at two projects\NFrom the Citizen Science Alliance,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.44,0:05:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the 'zooniverse' family of\Ncitizen science projects.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.05,0:05:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here we see Galaxy Zoo, where\Nthe Citizen Science Alliance
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.68,0:05:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and its partner organizations \Nhave pictures of galaxies.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.71,0:05:22.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they walk through a four step process,\Nwhere they ask questions about what
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.100,0:05:26.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the users see in these galaxies. \NAre they round? Are they spiral?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.57,0:05:30.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What kinds of bulges do you see?\NJust being able to classify what it is they're
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.63,0:05:35.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at by sight. Similarly we have \NPlanet Hunters, this is a, well,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.09,0:05:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from their tutorial, where they walk through\Npremises on how you can identify a transit.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.04,0:05:45.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ways in which these levels that we see here,\Ndip down, when a planet transit is identified.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.94,0:05:51.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we have again the small idea of looking, classifying, \Nmaking a note, but in both these cases
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.87,0:05:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we also have this very exciting thing\Nthat is a "free text box", where someone says
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.30,0:06:00.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Do you see anything that is of interest,\Nis there anything that you want to discuss,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.19,0:06:03.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from what you've seen?" So more than just\Nseeing, repeating, replicating, we have
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.89,0:06:07.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ability to discuss, to take things \Nto a higher level, to really reflect on
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.72,0:06:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it is that we're seeing. \NSo crowdsourcing, again, down
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.40,0:06:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at that lower level of Bloom's Taxonomy,\Ncitizen science is the ability to go
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.76,0:06:18.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit higher. Thinking about applying \Nthe knowledge that you have,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.06,0:06:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you gained from doing the project,\Nthinking about science on a larger scale.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.32,0:06:26.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So our basic principles of \NCitizen Science say these these are
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.41,0:06:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,volunteers, non-specialists,\Npeople who are not trained in science
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.08,0:06:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Governed by and under the leadership \Nof people who know what they're doing in science,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.70,0:06:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have that training, or that title\Nof scientist, to answer real-world questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.04,0:06:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because scientists don't want people \Nto just look at galaxies for their help,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.21,0:06:45.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though they are pretty just to look at anyway,\Nthey want people to look at those galaxies
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.95,0:06:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they can classify them and\Nknow more about what's going on
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.91,0:06:52.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out there. In one article that I read \Nabout galaxies, they mentioned that
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.21,0:06:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they first know what's successful when\Nthey classify the amount of time,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.93,0:07:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the amount of results found by these\Ncitizen scientists, and the number of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.22,0:07:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person hours that would have taken\Nfor the original researcher who was going through
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.22,0:07:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by hand, on his own, looking at all these\Ngalaxies on his own, to go through,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.52,0:07:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make these same distinctions.\NThey can do about fifty thousand a week,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.42,0:07:18.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seventy thousand done in the first two days,\Nso it's a lot of things that you can do.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.96,0:07:25.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, small tasks, macro scale, \Nlots of people, find the answers.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.77,0:07:29.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it seems to be a win-win proposition\Nfor everybody. Professionals get data,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.63,0:07:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,volunteers build skills. They learn how to\Nlook at a galaxy, what is it that they are
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.70,0:07:37.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at when they look at a galaxy.\NHow you identify it, the transit of a planet.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.47,0:07:41.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the real skills that a scientist use to\Ntry and answer some of their questions,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.39,0:07:48.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these citizen scientists actually get to use\Non their own. So everybody wins, alright.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.78,0:07:54.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2006, the United States Holocaust Memorial\NMuseum opened an exhibition called
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.55,0:07:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Give me your children: Voices \Nfrom the Lodz Ghetto" This was an exhibition
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.58,0:08:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,built around a student diarist,\Nchild diarist, who then lived in the Lodz Ghetto,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.02,0:08:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after 1940. One of the artifacts that\Nwas part of this exhibition was an album.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.34,0:08:13.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An album of 14,000 names, signed by the students\Nof the Lodz Ghetto, presented to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.27,0:08:16.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Mordechai) Chaim Rumkowski, who was the \Nadministrator, on Rosh Hashanah,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.66,0:08:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Jewish newyear, 1941.\NSo we have this incredible artifact,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.69,0:08:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this album full of signatures, and\Nwe knew nothing about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.91,0:08:28.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We knew that these were students\Nwho had signed their names.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.52,0:08:31.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We knew that they were about \Nthirty or so different schools
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.27,0:08:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who had students sign their names.\NAnd we had another document that
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.30,0:08:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gave us some framework as to how old\Nthese students were in each school.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.88,0:08:41.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, the question that we asked\Nas we brought this album forth
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.87,0:08:44.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was could you have\Ntoday's students, look through
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.94,0:08:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our data for the things that\Nwe would normally be used
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.96,0:08:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as researchers at the museum,\Nand try to figure out who these students were,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.62,0:08:55.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as what happened to them.\NThis was really an experimental project,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.41,0:08:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the question wasn't just "What happened\Nto those children?" but would it actually work
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.23,0:09:04.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to put today's students\Nat work, trying to figure out who these
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.14,0:09:07.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,students of [yesteryear] were.\NSeven years into the project
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.86,0:09:11.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we still call this an experimental\Ncitizen history project.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.09,0:09:13.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're still very much in beta, \Nwe're still trying to figure out
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.20,0:09:17.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where all the lessons are.\NBut we do at least have a platform.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.05,0:09:19.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here I'll show you the URL for this\Non the next slide.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.99,0:09:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the Children of the Lodz Ghetto\NMemorial Research Project,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.65,0:09:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have, at this point, about\N8500 names available for research.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.45,0:09:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have them up, transcribed \Nin the database, and our student users
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.18,0:09:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and volunteer users go through, \Nselect a name they want to research,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.04,0:09:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then go into our databases and see\Nif they could figure out who the person was,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.53,0:09:43.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who most likely sign their name in the album.\NThen figuring that out, figuring out who
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.22,0:09:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their most likely candidate is, going through\Noutlets even further, to see if they can
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.22,0:09:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,figure out what happened to that person,\Nafter the Ghetto. Were they able to
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.63,0:09:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,survive the war, did they perish, where,\Nif so. So we have, as we seen in other
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.06,0:10:01.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crowdsourcing and citizen science projects\Nup here, we have a framework
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.43,0:10:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we ask you to put into our research.\NWhat was the name that you found?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.94,0:10:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What was the date of birth if there was one?\NWhat street addresses did you find,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.80,0:10:11.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,associated with this person?\NAnd we also have this all important
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.60,0:10:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free textbox, where we ask, not only,\Nhow was it that you're able to come
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.71,0:10:19.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,across who this person was, but talk\Nto us about the process.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.43,0:10:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What was it that made you realize \Nthat this was the right person,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.02,0:10:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as opposed to some other [inaudible name].\NHow did you know? What was it
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.11,0:10:29.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the document, what can you\Ndetermine about the document?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.23,0:10:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So having done again, the higher order\Nthinking of "What do we do, when
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.07,0:10:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we look at documents?" and \N"What can we know from the document?"
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.30,0:10:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and "What do we simply not know?" We've seen from the document that a lot of students like to jump to conclusions
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.30,0:10:45.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that "Oh couldn't find anything else \Nbeyond stage 1, this person clearly
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.46,0:10:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must have perished in [inaudible]\Nthere's nothing else to be found."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.61,0:10:51.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Quite frankly the answer to that is,\Nwell, no, the only thing that we know
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.58,0:10:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can't find the document is that,\Nwe don't know yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.86,0:10:57.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The document just isn't there.\NDoesn't tell us anything, just tell us
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.91,0:11:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are big gaps. I want to talk\Nabout these big gaps momentarily.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.38,0:11:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They themselves are actually a big part\Nof citizen history museums.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.47,0:11:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, going back to our friendly \Nframework of Bloom's Taxonomy,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.50,0:11:15.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,keeping crowdsourcing down here \Nat the lower level, citizen history tries
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.19,0:11:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go even higher. Getting people not only\Nto analyze a text but also to analyze
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.00,0:11:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their thinking, to reflect on what it is that \Nthey are doing. And really recognize
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.43,0:11:25.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are building skills. In addition,\Nthey are still going through, helping us
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.71,0:11:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,researchers try and answer these\Nbig questions in history.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.95,0:11:32.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we put a lot of our trust in their hands,\Nput a lot of documents out there,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.37,0:11:35.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then ask them to reflect\Non their process, and on the process
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.05,0:11:38.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of doing history in general.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.52,0:11:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, knowing that much, knowing \Nour framework with this project that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.80,0:11:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have, let's return to our title\Nand talk about some words.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.66,0:11:49.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we present today only one\Npossible framework, one possible
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.45,0:11:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working nature of citizen history. \NThere are a lot of best practices
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.24,0:11:56.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we could draw from this,\Nwe all have to go back to the words
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.41,0:12:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we use. For instance, what is\Na citizen? Citizens, we usually talk
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.30,0:12:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about them as citizens of nation,\Ncitizens of a group of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.77,0:12:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are members of a certain group.\NAnd these citizen have two things.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.45,0:12:16.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have rights and they have responsibilities.\NWell, we museums, we're really good at
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.49,0:12:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,responsibilities. We're really good at saying\N"Please, come in to our museum space,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.06,0:12:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But here's all the things that you can't do:\Ndon't eat, don't drink, don't smoke,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.21,0:12:28.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't take pictures, don't poke\Nthe priceless raw files."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.65,0:12:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, what is it that we can give our \Nvisitors, our users, the people who
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.65,0:12:36.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come in our space, as far as\Nthe rights go. We're not particular
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.65,0:12:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good at saying "here's what you can do,\Nwith our stuff." So if we actually
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.98,0:12:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set out to create a citizen project,\Nwhat we need to be able to do,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.52,0:12:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to give people both responsibilities \Nas well as rights in that space
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.92,0:12:52.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we create. Furthermore, \Ngoing on to history.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.72,0:12:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,History, in this case, we have to \Ntake within the framework
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.75,0:13:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of history in a museum.\NSince history is really messy.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.99,0:13:05.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a lot of different theories\Non what history is, as far as I can tell.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.29,0:13:09.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,History itself really has\Nno big answers, no big truth.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.03,0:13:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,History, as it stands right now,\Nis just based on the documents.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.78,0:13:15.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The interpretations that we had \Nat our disposal in this moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.40,0:13:18.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that they change tomorrow,\Nwhen a new archive is open,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.28,0:13:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a new interpretation comes along,\Nsomething that makes us rethink
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.47,0:13:25.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything that we've ever thought\Nto be true, about a certain part of the field.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.46,0:13:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,History takes interpretation, and history\Nis a constant asymptotic approach.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.98,0:13:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To the truth, without really any expectations\Nthat it will ever achieve the truth itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.82,0:13:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That one big knowledge about\Nwhat history is, or may be.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.44,0:13:44.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Museums don't really like messy.\NWe like to be able to put things
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.67,0:13:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up on our walls, put the text up and\Nleave it there for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.23,0:13:52.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now whatever the interpretation is, \Nthat we have to take from this original data,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.13,0:13:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from our understanding of history,\Nwe pick one frame, and that's
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.74,0:13:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we put up. Hanging on the walls\Nand say, "Here you go visitors,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.68,0:14:03.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is truth, this is what happened in this\Nhistorical period." And because we are really good at
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.74,0:14:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,broadcast model, we're not particularly\Ngood at listening back.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.04,0:14:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And hearing all the questions people\Nmight have, say look at this one interpretation,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.96,0:14:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have put forward, about history.\NSo when you're talking about the opposite
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.59,0:14:20.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the broadcast model, the idea that \Nhistory is messy, there are
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.99,0:14:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no answers, we want to be able to have \Ncitizens in our space. Really get down
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.48,0:14:28.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to questions of trust. \NMuseums often say that we are
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.83,0:14:32.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instruments of public trust. The public\Nplaces a lot of their trust in us,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.34,0:14:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to say, this is fact, this is truth.\NYou're coming to my museum,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.84,0:14:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to learn something, and you'd expect\Nthat the knowledge being just
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.54,0:14:43.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,passed down to you, given to you\Nand you'll osmose it, from looking
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.59,0:14:47.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at our wall text, and seeing our artifacts.\NAnd that what you'll know.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.68,0:14:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But of course, we now know that\Nhistory is messier than that.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.70,0:14:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And simply heading down one \Ninterpretation, one framework,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.57,0:14:58.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not sufficient. It's just one way\Nof looking at things.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.57,0:15:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if museums were actually \Ngoing to open up all these interpretations
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.85,0:15:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of history, all these different frameworks\Nand ways of going about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.60,0:15:08.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would that then, hurt their ability\Nto be instruments of public trust?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.81,0:15:12.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By trusting the public, it then help\Ncorrect our image as organizations
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.93,0:15:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can be trusted in society.\NWe kind of have this Circle of Trust,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.98,0:15:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we keep on down low,\Nand inside our own frameworks,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.09,0:15:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,among our own staff in museums.\NAnd in the Circle of Trust we have
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.28,0:15:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often the really scary things that\Nwe don't really want to talk about.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.28,0:15:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like the fact that we don't know \Neverything. We like to pretend that we do,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.87,0:15:36.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we really don't. And there's a lot\Nof information or questions in our
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.39,0:15:39.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collections where there's answers\Nmight be, we just, maybe, haven't
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.31,0:15:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gone through our collections\Nas deeply as we might like,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.93,0:15:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's a lot of them. There's \Na lot of stuff out there, there's
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.24,0:15:48.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of data. It takes a long time to\Nget through it. There might be answers
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.26,0:15:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out there that will completely change\Nthe way we present this information.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.39,0:15:53.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Whispers{\i0} [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.58,0:15:56.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the fact of the matter is,\Nthat as we answer these questions
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.67,0:16:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're not going to find any big truth,\Nany big answers, again, this constant
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.94,0:16:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asymptotic approach to what the truth\Nmight be, we're just going to find
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.38,0:16:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more questions. We're just going to have\Nan even further path ahead of us.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.32,0:16:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we really don't like to talk about that,\Nso you should know it well enough.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.53,0:16:15.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We place ours -- it's kind of hard to \Nsee here,-- but there's a big red brick wall
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.25,0:16:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around this circle of trust, because \Nwe don't like to talk about it, or to share
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.65,0:16:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it with the public. But what if we do?\NWhat if we actually accept that there are
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.61,0:16:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people out there, who wanted to know\Nthat we have questions. Who want
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.88,0:16:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know what's still out there to be seen\Nand to be discovered, who realize that
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.71,0:16:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,museums maybe don't really know everything.\NAnd they're really curious about what's
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.50,0:16:40.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sitting inside that Circle of Trust.\NWhat haven't we explored yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.08,0:16:43.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what if the museum said,\N"well yeah, there's a lot of really messy
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.78,0:16:48.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stuff in there, things that we haven't \Nexplore, a lot of questions, that we still
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.25,0:16:52.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to go through? And then we \Nactually take the curiosity of our visitors
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.72,0:16:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into play, they actually say "Well yeah,\Nwe've got questions too.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.14,0:17:00.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we've been trying to ask them, \Nyou just haven't been listening to us."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.28,0:17:03.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well we have to warn them first,\Nit's kind of messy in there, it's really
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.09,0:17:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of scary. And as we help them to enter\Nthe Circle of Trust where we keep
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.93,0:17:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of our questions and our data,\Nand our unknown unknowns,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.84,0:17:16.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those questions that lead to further questions.\NThere's places where we have no data,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.47,0:17:19.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those things that we're really curious\Nabout, and we wish that this one more archive
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.69,0:17:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would open up, that we'd be able to get to their stuff.\NThat might have some of those answers.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.44,0:17:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's places where there are gaps\Nin the record.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.44,0:17:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We wouldn't just sign our visitors\Ninto there, completely unequipped.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.32,0:17:35.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'd give them a tool kit,\Nwe'd give them some binoculars,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.37,0:17:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they'd be able to look closer at things.\NWe'd give them a wrench,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:38.03,0:17:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they can actually go through\Nand tweak the data, see what
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.16,0:17:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are playing with, messing around,\Nin the stuff that we have,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.77,0:17:46.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as a hardhat, because, well,\Nwho knows what will fall out
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.82,0:17:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we actually shake the history\Nand what's in there.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.09,0:17:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this toolkit are the things that allow\Ncitizens, our visitors, our volunteers, our users,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.04,0:17:59.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to enter this space, this Circle of Trust,\Nthe things that we're really curious about.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.02,0:18:02.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To enter into our questions and into\Nour data. Working in partnership with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.100,0:18:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To answer these questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.99,0:18:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of these when we look at citizen\Nhistory, are the questions historians have
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.96,0:18:13.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for themselves. The ways that historians\Ndo history, history as a process.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.33,0:18:16.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So how does historians look at a source?\NWhat's available to us in the source
Dialogue: 0,0:18:16.53,0:18:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what's the context for it.\NWhat questions are we trying
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.01,0:18:23.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to answer by looking at the source.\NWhat's new? What might we be unlocking
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.36,0:18:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this source, what are we looking at\Nthat might not have been considered before?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.32,0:18:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's in your interpretation, a new \Npiece of data, it's pointing us
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.28,0:18:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a new place. In the case of the\NChildren of the Lodz Ghetto project,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.41,0:18:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've been able to identify a couple of\Nthese pointers. Then our citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.52,0:18:41.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they go through try to identify these\Nchildren, have an easier time in
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.08,0:18:45.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going through our stuff, because we know that \Nnaming conventions in 1920s and 1930s
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.63,0:18:49.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were a little different than you might expect\Nhere in the States, because your
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.79,0:18:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,average student would have a Polish name,\Nand an Yiddish name, and probably
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.89,0:18:55.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an nickname, maybe even a middle\Nname. All of which could be used in
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.73,0:18:58.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any number of documents. So then\Nyou'll be able to accept there are
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.48,0:19:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of names for the same person, \Nhelps people to be able to read sources
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.03,0:19:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and jump to fewer conclusions.\NBe able to be more open,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.74,0:19:07.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to different interpretations and\Ndifferent names that maybe out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.83,0:19:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In addition, we're working with a mostly\NAmerican audience. So being able to tell
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.37,0:19:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our users that in these documents\Nyou'll going to see the day first,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.46,0:19:19.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then the month, helps them better\Nto unlock what it is they're seeing.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.52,0:19:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And instead of putting their American lens\Nonto it, have a better understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.84,0:19:29.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what it is they are actually seeing.\NSo, thus hardhatted, and wrenched,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.11,0:19:33.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and binoculared, we send our users\Ninto the Circle of Trust, and while
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.02,0:19:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're at it we might as well jump into\Nthat Circle of Trust.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.52,0:19:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We might as well bring the museum\Ninto that Circle of Trust, accept that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.47,0:19:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have questions and more data\Nand unknown unknowns.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.16,0:19:45.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we're all in this together.\NAnd a funny thing happens.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.25,0:19:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because rather than being our usual\Nbroadcaster model museums
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.16,0:19:52.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just going out and say, "Here's truth,\Ntake it in." We actually have conversation.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.86,0:19:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have users talking to the museum\Nand the museum talking back.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.96,0:19:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have users talking to one another,\Nhelping each other to grow through
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.62,0:20:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their research, and as these questions\Nand conversations iterate back and forth,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.66,0:20:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back and forth, we actually have \Nmore growth than we would've had
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.86,0:20:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we're just a museum talking\Nto itself. Or just users speaking to one another.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.40,0:20:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the museum still have\Na really important role to play.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.50,0:20:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are the scaffolders. In addition\Nto giving people our questions,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.65,0:20:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our honest research, our data, \Nwe're the ones who can help our users
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.17,0:20:24.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go from just coming in out of curiosity\Nto actually going out with a skill set.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.55,0:20:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things they can use and apply in their\Nown lives beyond just the Circle of Trust.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.74,0:20:32.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what do we get out of this?\NWhen we open up our users
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.14,0:20:37.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the museum itself to accepting\Nwe have questions, data, and unknown unknowns,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.07,0:20:40.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the museum gets connections. Connections\Namong their [inaudible], again,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:40.40,0:20:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of a crowdsourcing model of lots of people\Nlooking at our stuff, at the same time,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.47,0:20:48.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drawing, from the wisdom of the crowd,\Nsome of these answers.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.46,0:20:51.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do get some of these answers to\Nsome of these questions that we have
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.10,0:20:54.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we get more questions, of course.\NEverytime we try to answer a question
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.76,0:20:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we just end up with more questions \Nand more directions that we could
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.40,0:20:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take our research in.\NAnd perhaps these are questions
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.60,0:21:03.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we haven't considered before. Because\Nwe've got people coming in with fresh eyes.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.57,0:21:06.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Looking at our stuff in ways we might not \Nhave considered before. And thus
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.95,0:21:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we would already have more questions,\Nwe have more and more questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.45,0:21:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's great! So what do our users get out of it?\NNow that the museum's gotten all this
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.85,0:21:20.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good stuff from the people who work \Nin their data. Well, the user discover.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.02,0:21:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we know, truth about history.\NThat there are no simple answers, that
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.34,0:21:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,history is messy. In a lot of cases they\Nalso get a very personal connection
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.79,0:21:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the history. We've discovered that\Nfrom our users at least.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.93,0:21:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have students working on research\Nabout students, they get very personally
Dialogue: 0,0:21:34.36,0:21:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,invested in looking at these individuals,\Ntheir lives, their families, and what happened
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.90,0:21:43.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to them. So having a personal connection\Nto this one aspect of history often helps them
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.11,0:21:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being a greater personal connection\Nto the rest of history as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.01,0:21:49.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And frankly, we don't ask them\Nto give back their hardhats, their wrenches,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.100,0:21:53.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their binoculars when they leave.\NWe let them keep it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.59,0:21:56.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they take all of these great skills\Nthey have developed, within
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.27,0:22:01.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Circle of Trust, within the museum's\Nsetting, and take them out into the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.32,0:22:06.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because really what's at stake here\Nisn't just citizens being citizens of our sphere
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.15,0:22:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having rights and responsibilities\Nwhere we are, but it's about their
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.84,0:22:12.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizenship. One of the great things about\Nthe study of history, the process
Dialogue: 0,0:22:12.78,0:22:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we go through as we look at \Nhistory, is that a lot of the skills
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.68,0:22:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we use looking at a document,\Nmaking an argument, talking to one another,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.36,0:22:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are also skills for the public sphere.\NAnd on the internet today, it's kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.64,0:22:30.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a murky monkey place, where there's \Na lot of debate and dialogue going on,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.13,0:22:34.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without a lot of people talking to \Nor listening to one another.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.47,0:22:37.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what if we're actually be able to\Ngo into this digital area where our
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.54,0:22:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizen history lives, dig people out, you know,\Nhave this skill set of being able to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.92,0:22:46.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look critically at a source, think critically\Nabout what they're hearing, and being able
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.21,0:22:50.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to form a cogent argument,\Nhaving send them back out to the murk
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.10,0:22:53.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet, and see what happens.\NSee if we could actually improve
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.86,0:22:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,civil discourse, by having this new \Ngeneration not of trained historians
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.28,0:23:03.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but of people trying to think historically.\NTake their skill set back out into the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.65,0:23:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let's go back to our words. \NCitizen history and radical trust in museums.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:08.17,0:23:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What does this mean for best practices\Nfor citizen history? Well, museums,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.87,0:23:16.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have to remember that we're more\Nthan just our four walls. That we are also
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.53,0:23:19.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the additional space for the people\Nwho come in to our walls.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.35,0:23:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They need to be able to think beyond\Njust what we want to present.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.60,0:23:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In this very closed box. They are\Nto think about the larger conversations
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.11,0:23:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going on around us, in the world at large.\NHistory is living, breathing, growing --
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.94,0:23:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that is constantly evolves.\NIn an early version of this talk
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.64,0:23:38.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't have history made history,\Nhistory is shared. History is noise,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:38.42,0:23:42.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was more active than just \Nthe static noun, of history.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.08,0:23:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because history should never be static.\NSo the knowledge that history is constantly
Dialogue: 0,0:23:46.47,0:23:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,growing and evolving and changing,\Nand what is true for history today
Dialogue: 0,0:23:50.70,0:23:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might not be true tomorrow.\NAlso means that when we have our projects
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.93,0:23:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going on we need to be able to take\Nwhatever it is that we're learning,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.84,0:23:59.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and reiterated back into the project.\NTo be able to have the assumptions
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.81,0:24:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we make for our citizen users \Ngrow and change, something learn
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.20,0:24:05.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more and more from.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.79,0:24:09.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Citizens have rights and responsibilities\Nin your online space, you've gotta be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.39,0:24:13.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let them in. Because it's not just enough\Nto say "Come in and look at our stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.43,0:24:16.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,precisely the way that we want you to."\NWe have to be able to give them the right
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.60,0:24:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go into our data, muff around and see\Nwhat they are curious about within that
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.24,0:24:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,framework, and send us their questions \Nfor whatever it is that they've uncovered.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.60,0:24:28.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Trust is hugely public, as we just talked\Nabout, it's really the Circle of Trust,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.09,0:24:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the idea of the public trust, and the fact\Nthat opening our trust to the public
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.66,0:24:35.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't break down our trust.\NIt's as if it's becoming a partnership,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.74,0:24:38.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way that we can all grow from working \Ntogether. So we have to be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.42,0:24:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,welcome our community into our questions,\Nand be able to, willing, to take our authority
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.00,0:24:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out just enough to be able to say,\N"Alright, what answers do you have?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.34,0:24:51.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What questions do you have for us,\Nwhat can you do to bring in to our sphere,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.95,0:24:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help us all grow together."\NAnd frankly the all important word, and.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.22,0:25:05.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really bridging here, not just citizen history,\Nand radical trust of museums, or just
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.18,0:25:09.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizens, and museums. It's really about \Npartnership and dialogue.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.34,0:25:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whenever we look at this, it's not just about\Ntwo things working across purposes,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.31,0:25:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's people who think they'll be working\Ntogether. In a partnership.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.74,0:25:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So not only it's this about our citizens,\Nit's also about what the museum must do
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.33,0:25:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the space, so we have to be able to\Nscaffold the skills we want to build,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.38,0:25:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have to be able to engage our users.\NThis community takes a lot of caring
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.90,0:25:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and feeding, a lot of time. To be able to\Nmake sure people are getting the skills,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.26,0:25:34.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building the skills, learning the things\Nthat we'll hope they'd take away from this.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.02,0:25:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And be able to say "We may not have the\Nhistorical authority in this space,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.10,0:25:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have the understanding. How you go \Nabout, thinking historically, let's help you
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.94,0:25:48.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grow, let's all move along this continuum \Ntogether. So, finally, instead of best practices
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.33,0:25:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think about from these different ideas about\Ncitizens, history, and museums, you need to
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.39,0:25:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be able to start with a question that\Nbegs answers. Something that is actually
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.32,0:25:59.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a legit question in history. It's not enough\Njust to give people busy work
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.81,0:26:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say "Go." This is gotta be something\Nthat museums are actually curious about.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.95,0:26:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Furthermore, we'll have to be able to\Nwelcome these fresh eyes into our stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.91,0:26:10.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't need everyone to be trained \Nhistorians right off the bat, but that
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.81,0:26:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's actually value in having people\Nnot necessarily worked with this data,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.98,0:26:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this period of history, or with these\Nhistorical skills before, coming in
Dialogue: 0,0:26:18.70,0:26:21.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and looking at our stuff. We need \Nto be able to iterate and dialogue.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:21.98,0:26:25.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, keeping in mind that this is\Nnever static, this should never stay
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.24,0:26:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in one place for very long, that our \Nprojects need to constantly be
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.84,0:26:31.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evaluated and reevaluated, taking\Nknowledge that we've learned,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:31.77,0:26:35.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,putting it back into the project,\Nand remembering it's always about
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.12,0:26:39.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the dialogue between the museum\Nand it's users. Between users and users.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.18,0:26:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The conversation that goes on in that space\Nis just as important what we find out
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.63,0:26:46.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from it. We need to make sure that\Nthere is that space, for debate and discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.78,0:26:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've got some place for these people to go,\Nto be able to talk comfortably
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.04,0:26:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to one another. We have to be able to\Ncreate opportunities for growth,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.68,0:26:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as people find that they are getting \Nmore and more into these skills,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.22,0:26:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learning more and more about\Nwhat they are doing. We need to
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.56,0:27:01.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make sure that there's some place \Nfor them to go, beyond just the basic
Dialogue: 0,0:27:01.17,0:27:05.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,level of citizen history. In the Lodz Project,\Nfor instance, we have a level called
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.51,0:27:09.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expert reviewer, when users have gotten\Nreally good at doing the basic research
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.73,0:27:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we ask them to do, we can then elevate\Nthem to the expert reviewer, and then
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.84,0:27:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a result, they are then asked\Nto go through and review the research
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.74,0:27:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their colleagues, their peers have done.\NWe elevate peers to a higher level,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.22,0:27:24.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they then go talk to their peers\Nas greater authority figures,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.73,0:27:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thus giving them a little bit more\Nempowerment and also give them
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.42,0:27:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their peers an opportunity to realize\Nthat there's opportunity for growth.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:32.81,0:27:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Student) And what's after that?\N(Elissa) What's after that?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.38,0:27:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a great question. Once we've worked\Nout the expert reviewer a little bit more,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.72,0:27:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm hoping we'll find out.\NThat's part of our next iteration
Dialogue: 0,0:27:43.54,0:27:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we learn more. And finally this \Ncommunity need a lot of caring
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.41,0:27:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and feeding. You gotta make sure \Nyou've got a community manager
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.63,0:27:51.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is really, willing to be boots\Non the ground, constantly working
Dialogue: 0,0:27:51.100,0:27:57.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with your people, with your users,\Nwith your citizens. And being there
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.46,0:28:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to answer their questions, to help them\Nget through the murk of the unknown
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.13,0:28:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unknowns, you know, there's still\Nvalue in there. Citizen history has
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.90,0:28:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,truly been one of the great lapse \Nof my professional life, and the more
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.00,0:28:13.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I talk to users, learn from users,\Nunderstanding this that we do,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.33,0:28:17.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the more I like our users, the more that \NI love having them in our space,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.30,0:28:22.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to learn from them.\NAnd because you today are my citizens here,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.47,0:28:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,love to hear if you have any questions?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.28,0:28:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Clapping{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.41,0:28:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Host) Sure I got lots. Thank you for giving us\Nan idea of what you do, and [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.17,0:28:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are at it for seven years. You talked about\Nmuseums as if there is this, sort of,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.11,0:28:44.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,global museum - of course there are different museums -\Nbut even within the Holocaust museum,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:44.35,0:28:49.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could you talk about how, what kind of\Nresponses, support, and sponsorship
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.66,0:28:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've gotten from curators, staff, directors,\Nboards of trustees, sponsors, members, donors?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.85,0:29:02.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) Well this is little bit of where that\Nradical part comes in, those words in the title
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.89,0:29:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we didn't talk about. I kinda dispense\Nthe word radical pretty early on
Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.52,0:29:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the preparation process because this is\Nreally what museums are all about.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.36,0:29:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience Member) It's hardly radical anymore.\N(Elissa) Right, but within the framework
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.08,0:29:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Holocaust museum it kind of is.\NWe're still very much nervous about
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.14,0:29:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having anybody who isn't us working\Non our data, one of the reason why it's been
Dialogue: 0,0:29:22.82,0:29:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in beta for seven years, because we're\Nworried about saying "The museum
Dialogue: 0,0:29:26.16,0:29:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is doing this project where we're putting\Nour data our there, come be part of us,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.75,0:29:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and look at whatever you want."\NBecause some elements in the museum
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.38,0:29:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are worried that they are going to ask\Nfor more data to be out there,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.78,0:29:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things that we aren't necessarily ready\Nto have, out there there aren't very -- yea.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.61,0:29:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We often got a lot of support from\Nthe educational community.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:46.79,0:29:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the project again has been\Non the DL [down low] again, for seven years.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:52.31,0:29:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then when do the people find out\Nabout it, it's been a lot of fun
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.14,0:29:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the last two and half years after\Nwe've mentioned it, the more people seemed
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.40,0:30:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to like it and really appreciate the fact that\Nwe give people empowerment within our space.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.77,0:30:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We see a lot of opportunities for it, within\Neducational, formal educational setting.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.31,0:30:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As far as donors go we haven't really pushed\Nto them that much. And now that I sit in
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.21,0:30:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the marketing department, there's definitely\Nmore opportunities for us to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.46,0:30:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,About a year ago we went through\Nand completely revamped the site,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.07,0:30:25.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the screenshots that I showed earlier\Nare from the new version.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.31,0:30:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the plan was always going to be\Nthat once we got it to that point,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.79,0:30:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're going to release it out of beta,\Nand that it would go live, marketing
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.15,0:30:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would do this big push around it\Nand we will get lots and lots of users,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.96,0:30:38.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would be wonderful, and we\Njust never got there.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.07,0:30:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Part of the reasons is an accident \Nof timing. This is our 20th anniversary year
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.42,0:30:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and probably 90% of my time has been\Nspent on working on the 20th, working
Dialogue: 0,0:30:46.40,0:30:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our outreach around that.\NMy other kind of [inaudible] been
Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.83,0:30:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that. So maybe if we done this\Nthe year before, we'd actually be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.62,0:30:57.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,run it through the marketing cycle \Nand see what happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.89,0:31:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience Member) Here's some few more numbers --\N(Elissa) Sure
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.73,0:31:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience Member) How many people have contributed\Nto that Lodz project?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:04.72,0:31:08.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) So we have about 1500 people\Nworking on the project, in some capacity
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.29,0:31:10.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or another.\N(Audience Member) Is that number increasing or decreasing?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.54,0:31:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) That number is increasing.\NWe've been doing a lot of work, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.72,0:31:17.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with classes. We tell teachers about the project,\Nthey work with their students.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:17.37,0:31:22.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do a webinar showing them how to use\Nthe project, and the teacher does the support.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.40,0:31:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the classroom then I give support at the\Nback end as they turn research in.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.38,0:31:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that number is going to increase. Again,\Nnext week when I got another forty students
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.47,0:31:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from GW on this site. We do have the occasional\Nuser who comes across it and then
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.51,0:31:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goes hogwild on it. That, as people find this\Non their own, they would usually spend a lot more
Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.29,0:31:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time on it.\N(Audience Member) And how many followers do you have
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.88,0:31:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on your Twitter feed?\N(Elissa) You mean personally or the museum?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.20,0:31:50.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience Member) Well @museums365 is that it?\N(Elissa) That's - I forgot - about 1400.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.52,0:31:54.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The museum itself has 150,700 something.\N(Audience Member) So you do have an audience
Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.75,0:32:00.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can reach by that twitter feed.\NSo you use it to advertise events,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.06,0:32:04.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do you promote these citizen history projects?\N(Elissa) We do, and particularly now, the way
Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.85,0:32:09.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that our social media team is set up,\NI came over last October, and then
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.28,0:32:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by a month behind me, we have analyst \Nperson come over from collections.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:12.86,0:32:17.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been in education for -- and so the two of us\NI ran the Lodz Ghetto project,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.15,0:32:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he ran Remember Me, which is\Na crowdsourcing project in the vein
Dialogue: 0,0:32:20.84,0:32:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the American History Project\Nwhere we had people sharing their
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.94,0:32:29.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,personal knowledge, where the memories\Nof, children in displaced children's camps.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.91,0:32:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have photographs that we show, these children,\Nand ask "Does anybody remember this person?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.53,0:32:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you know who this person is?"\NAnd people do and they share their story.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:38.61,0:32:42.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really been remarkable to see how successful\Nthat's been. So we have two people working
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.45,0:32:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within this crowdsourcing field, now sitting in \Nthe social media. And I'm very excited to see
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.89,0:32:53.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we can actually do with that, \Nonce we get out of the 20th muck.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.95,0:32:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience Member) I have many more questions but I should\Nlet others, pursue.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.44,0:33:05.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) So, um, looking at the Children\Nof the Lodz Ghetto site, and right at the top
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.87,0:33:13.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's project status, so, twenty students\Nknown to have survived, so is this what's been known
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.96,0:33:21.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or verified through people working on this site?\N(Elissa) That's right, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.37,0:33:25.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is one of the additions that we put in\Nwith the new iteration of the site.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.54,0:33:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had done a bit evaluation with some \Nof our users, and a little bit work from
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.64,0:33:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Center for New Media and History, and they \Ngave us some of their feedback.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.49,0:33:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Among that was, people want to see the scope\Nof what they are doing. How far along
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.30,0:33:44.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're actually getting with this project.\N(Fraistat) I think that's really important,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.11,0:33:50.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even including the number of \Ncitizen historians who have contributed
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.51,0:33:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the project. I think that's a good thing \Nto show too. They do this at NYPL, show
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.94,0:34:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the number of people, number of records\Nthat have been curated or transcribed.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.34,0:34:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) It's one of the things that they mentioned\Nin that same article about galaxy zoo,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.48,0:34:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that, here at the three in the morning\Nwith my galaxies, you know, there are
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.02,0:34:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a couple thousand other people also\Nup at three in the morning with their galaxies.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.93,0:34:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when their best [ribow] in the end,\Nwhere we're so often on our own,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.52,0:34:21.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're actually very much with other people\Nat the same time.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.31,0:34:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am an educator, I love questions, \Nand I love wait time, so I'm willing to wait as long as it takes.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:36.81,0:34:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) Yeah I didn't mention that I went\Nto the museum last week, and now that you're saying
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.00,0:34:47.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying about this, I don't remember that \Nthere was anything, lets say, in the area
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.69,0:34:54.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that talks about it. And I thought that, you know,\Nthat might be a good thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.49,0:34:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have something, where they're from\Nor something, where they go to talk about
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.56,0:35:05.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this project, because, you know, \Nlooking around there are maybe,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.35,0:35:14.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, you know, elderly people who have\Nperson of interest as they go to that museum.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.10,0:35:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That might open up more --\N(Host) So it's like how does
Dialogue: 0,0:35:21.41,0:35:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the brick and mortar interact more tightly\Nwith the virtual here.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.66,0:35:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) And what we've been more willing\Nto do in the brick-and-mortar space is then to say
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.74,0:35:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connect with us online. We've also been\Nmissing a lot of our community museums
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.87,0:35:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the the symposium near some of our mall.\NWhere we'd get to the end of the exhibition
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.03,0:35:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say "What did you think? Tell us on twitter at\NAm-History Museum." So we are more willing
Dialogue: 0,0:35:44.36,0:35:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to let people tell us, share their thoughts\Nin the social space. So putting things
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.07,0:35:53.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our Facebook wall, talking to them\Non Twitter, putting videos on Youtube,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.91,0:35:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pinning stuff on Pinterest boards.\NBut as far as interaction with our
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.76,0:36:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,digital space, the things that are connected to us\Nin visual and outside of social,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.20,0:36:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we definitely have less of a push, \Nto those into the museum itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.54,0:36:11.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a space on the second floor\Nof the museum, where our third
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.38,0:36:14.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crowdsourcing project, we have three \Ngoing on right now, to a very much end.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.81,0:36:18.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The World Memory Project,\Nwe're in partnership with Ancestry.com
Dialogue: 0,0:36:18.07,0:36:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a bunch of names list, that we're\Ntrying to get transcribed, and we open
Dialogue: 0,0:36:22.26,0:36:26.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those up to the Ancestry community to help\Nus key in some of those names and dates
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.100,0:36:32.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and things from these giant databases.\NAnd there are two stations that are set up
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.47,0:36:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there. Where you are getting to help \Nkey in -- but again we don't talk about
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.26,0:36:41.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it very much. And I often do wonder\Nif there is some kind of force separation
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.24,0:36:44.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between our brick-and-mortar self,\Nand our digital space self.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.41,0:36:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the brick and mortar, we can \Ncontrol, pretty much. We can control
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.72,0:36:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what conversations going in that space,\Nwe have information comes down from
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.96,0:36:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the museum at large. And the digital space\Nwas a little bit scarier. Right? We're not
Dialogue: 0,0:36:57.29,0:37:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be able to control the conversations there\Nas much. We are worried that people
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.55,0:37:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would just take our stuff and run away with it.\NAnd if we are not ready for that many people
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.90,0:37:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to look at our data and actually poke our stuff,\Npoke our precious raw files, then having
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.99,0:37:16.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information leading to those things in\Nthe brick and mortar space can be
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.92,0:37:20.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit scary sometimes.\N(Fraistat) And it's like on the other side of your ticket
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.67,0:37:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it could say "Work with us online."\N(Elissa) Totally.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.60,0:37:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would love that.\N(Fraistat) So the museum's greatest fear
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.55,0:37:32.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might be something like success where\Npeople demanded more and more.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:32.14,0:37:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's your biggest fear about citizen\Nhistorian projects in the Holocaust museum?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.23,0:37:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) I think my fear is that it'll fail.\NAnd I believe in failing big and failing best.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.48,0:37:49.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I am worried that when we build it\Nnobody will come, where we build it,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:49.98,0:37:54.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people come, and then we can't share\Nthat with our internal community.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.51,0:37:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say "Look at all these great success \Nwe had." And they say "So what.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:57.48,0:37:59.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's the point?" That discrete\Nexperiment we were running
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.88,0:38:03.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we have the trust of our users,\Nwe have a wonderful community
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.70,0:38:07.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that well iterates and talks to each other\Nand learn skills, and goes out into the world
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.69,0:38:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that nobody on our side will listen enough.\NAnd that if this experiment fails,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.84,0:38:16.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then how are we every going to\Nconvince them again?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.92,0:38:23.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) It makes me think of -- there's\Nall this talk about blended online education,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:23.39,0:38:31.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and moves and the counter-discourse \Nfrom people in pedagogy is about, well,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.43,0:38:38.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need learning outcomes that\Ncan be assessed. How do you measure
Dialogue: 0,0:38:38.82,0:38:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the education that you are giving?\NBut it seems to me that's the other
Dialogue: 0,0:38:42.78,0:38:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of the circuit that we don't have\Nclosed here yet. It's -- how do we document
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.89,0:38:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have taught citizens \Nhow to do history in a way that meets
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.70,0:39:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our own sense of what it means\Nto do history. When we show how
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.00,0:39:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many people -- we could show\Nhow many people might have transcribed
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.20,0:39:08.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something, how do we document\Nwhat they learned, and, make the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.85,0:39:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the counter-argument to people\Nwho say "So what? So you've got some people
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.16,0:39:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who type some stuff in, big deal."\N(Elissa) It's really hard, it's where I think
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.74,0:39:19.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having the notes field so prominent \Nreally comes in. That we've given
Dialogue: 0,0:39:19.83,0:39:23.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people the space, we ask them\Nto share with us what their reflections are.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.75,0:39:26.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And anecdotally I can tell you that\Npeople as they spend more and more time
Dialogue: 0,0:39:26.61,0:39:29.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the project get better and better\Nat filling their skill, and they'd able to
Dialogue: 0,0:39:29.84,0:39:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reflect more critically what is it\Nthat they are thinking. But in terms
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.27,0:39:38.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being able to measure, to give it\Na name, I don't know if we can.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.17,0:39:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have to figure that out yet.\NWe also have a lot of supporting
Dialogue: 0,0:39:39.91,0:39:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,teachers, who haven't quite grasp\Nthe idea either, I have one teacher
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.75,0:39:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who wanted to use the project such\Nthat the students would go on
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.71,0:39:51.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and research one student, and they\Nwould present the powerpoint
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.01,0:39:54.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that student's life, in class.\NThen I had to tell him that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.77,0:39:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can't do that, because you are\Ngoing to have kids who would go and
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.77,0:40:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look for a student, and find nothing there.\NThat's the nature of the project,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.72,0:40:07.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the nature of doing research.\NWe don't know what we don't have.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:07.08,0:40:09.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in finding that out, that's part of\Nthe goal for us is to figure out
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.45,0:40:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don't have what those gaps are.\NAnd so trying to put up a critical
Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.15,0:40:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,narrative on it, you can't always do that.\NThe expectations just aren't the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:17.79,0:40:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) Now thinking about you using\Nthe Bloom's model, you were saying that
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.27,0:40:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we think through what we want\Nto give people who interact with us,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:27.59,0:40:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we want to climb up the scale.\NSo, a kind of outcomes assessment
Dialogue: 0,0:40:32.50,0:40:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be to somehow to map back\Nto that. And say, "We've brought people
Dialogue: 0,0:40:36.92,0:40:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from here to here to here.\NBut how you make that assessment is
Dialogue: 0,0:40:42.49,0:40:47.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I'm thinking of it strictly \Nfrom our own projects that are
Dialogue: 0,0:40:47.74,0:40:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to do this, so, I'm self-interested\Nin an answer to this problem it seems.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.68,0:40:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Really hard stuff.\N(Elissa) I imagine you have, like an
Dialogue: 0,0:40:56.64,0:41:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,another crowdsourced group of people\Nwho would then go through those
Dialogue: 0,0:41:01.68,0:41:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free text responses and code those.\NSo you would have something like a
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.62,0:41:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,separate project going on at the same time\Nwhere they'll be able to have certain words
Dialogue: 0,0:41:08.64,0:41:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or outcomes we'd be looking for.\NIn those notes.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:12.69,0:41:15.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I know that there's been\Nsome discussion about this in the archives
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.99,0:41:21.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,field in particular the question of instruction\Nand how much when you bring in a group
Dialogue: 0,0:41:21.95,0:41:24.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of students into the archives and you\Nteach them how to do research,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:24.90,0:41:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,teaching them actually handling the skills,\Nand what they've been doing
Dialogue: 0,0:41:28.33,0:41:32.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a pre- and post-test. And trying \Nto compare the results to see
Dialogue: 0,0:41:32.74,0:41:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they've actually learned.\NBut there's a whole new set of research
Dialogue: 0,0:41:36.96,0:41:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is going into this because no one \Nis really quite sure that actually works.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.58,0:41:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, I think this is a critical issue\Nfor a lot of disciplines right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:47.57,0:41:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is trying to figure out what it is\Nyou are trying to evaluate
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.12,0:41:55.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how you going to do that evaluation.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:55.47,0:41:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Host) I'm wondering off, also it gets\Nto the top of the Bloom's pyramid ,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:58.88,0:42:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you get to that true creative level,\Nbut when you start seeing your users
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.28,0:42:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,able to take the skills that they acquired\Nin the course of the interaction with
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.39,0:42:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the institution and create truly new\Nand different things, and the institution
Dialogue: 0,0:42:16.61,0:42:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has to be willing to accept that,\Nas almost like, well here's one of our
Dialogue: 0,0:42:20.70,0:42:26.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,user's exhibit. You might even call it\Nan exhibit on this topic. It's their
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.42,0:42:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interpretation, we don't necessarily\Nendorse it, but maybe when we give them
Dialogue: 0,0:42:30.04,0:42:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the space, the digital space in order\Nto demonstrate that creativity.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.91,0:42:38.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they kind of move up from being\Nworker bees to, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:38.93,0:42:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making something.\N(Elissa) Should they take it even further
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.51,0:42:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trusting now apart, to be able to --\N(Host) Right, you know, way out there
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.36,0:42:55.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interpretations, or people do stuff\Nwith your data that you don't even like.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.26,0:43:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) And with the Holocaust Museum\Nyou could imagine how that could go.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:00.26,0:43:04.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) One of the best ways to,\Nat least to being to get a sense of what
Dialogue: 0,0:43:04.99,0:43:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are getting out of this \Nis simply to ask them "What did
Dialogue: 0,0:43:08.21,0:43:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get out of it?"\NAnd if they are able to express that
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.71,0:43:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that is convincing, then you know\Nthat it worked.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.66,0:43:17.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) That's a good point. We have\None teacher, so that the teacher that's
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.73,0:43:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be working with us starting\Nnext week, again, who's been our
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.63,0:43:24.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,biggest fan for most of the time\Nthe project's been up.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:24.59,0:43:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who assigns students at the end of class\Ndue two reflection papers.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.57,0:43:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One just the real basics of what did you find\Non this day, how much time did you spend
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.63,0:43:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on that project, what did you write,\Nwhat did the museum write back.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.18,0:43:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And reflect on that encounter.\NAnd then a new page on just,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:39.11,0:43:43.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their experience of the site.\NWhat it is that they, were thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:43:43.95,0:43:46.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about getting out of it,\Nwhat we could do better,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:46.64,0:43:50.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they could do better.\NNext topic. And I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:50.61,0:43:55.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in aggregate, that is the best we've been\Nable to do so far, being able to see what it is
Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.03,0:43:57.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people are taking away from the project.\NI think that if there is some way
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.95,0:44:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make that more of the part of the project,\Nto ask people as they leave this thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.66,0:44:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,share something. Answers, questions\Nsomeone open with it, with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.97,0:44:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That we're kind of unsure.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:10.61,0:44:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) I don't know that much about\Nthe -- really, a merging discipline
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.83,0:44:18.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of learning outcome assessment,\Nknowing we have our own specialist
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.18,0:44:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scattered through campus, but it's a lot\Nmore complex than just asking people
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.73,0:44:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they think they've gotten out of it.\NThat's a part of it. And I really think
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.77,0:44:35.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we need to know and we need to\Nfigure out ways to know what we are doing.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.75,0:44:42.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because how can we know if, you know,\Nwe're doing a good job of teaching
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.64,0:44:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the things we want to teach through\Nthese sites and through these participation.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:46.70,0:44:52.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How can we know how to change?\NTo better realize our goals.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:52.35,0:44:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are really complex issues \Nand I am actually thinking out of,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:56.93,0:45:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to reach out to some learning\Noutcome assessment people just,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:00.89,0:45:06.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help think through that part of the equation.\N(Audience) So I want to return to encourage you
Dialogue: 0,0:45:06.81,0:45:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go much further with this, you know,\NNeil's idea of printing it on the tickets
Dialogue: 0,0:45:10.87,0:45:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or making visible in the museum, \Nand lots of other ways if you have
Dialogue: 0,0:45:14.87,0:45:18.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,150,000 Twitter followers, you should \Nbe generating a lot more than 1500
Dialogue: 0,0:45:18.42,0:45:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,participants. I mean, we work here\Nat the Smithsonian's Encyclopedia of Life project,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:23.99,0:45:30.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a webpage for every species,\Nand they have some of the same concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.28,0:45:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you have, but I think you have a grand\Nopportunity to go to your wards and
Dialogue: 0,0:45:33.84,0:45:37.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your sponsors and ramp this up \Nas the central way. This is the future
Dialogue: 0,0:45:37.59,0:45:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this museum. It's a matter of creating\Nout. That's one thing about educating
Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.99,0:45:46.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the users but, creating outreach and \Nengagement in getting people to
Dialogue: 0,0:45:46.90,0:45:51.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,participate remotely, that may generate\Nmore traffic with people who
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.18,0:45:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come and visit, there's just a lot of ways\Nthis should grow bigger, and I'm,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:54.57,0:45:59.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, you should be shy of\Nthat growing this much larger.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:59.11,0:46:03.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The fears are prevalent everywhere\Nand maybe the Holocaust museum
Dialogue: 0,0:46:03.19,0:46:08.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deservedly, as I said, I worked for them\Non their early design-- their fears are prevalent
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.43,0:46:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about Holocaust deniers taking over these,\Nor polluting results. Even one small error
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.24,0:46:20.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the data set will then trigger a national\Nnews story that undermines the validity of it all,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:20.21,0:46:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you do have more concerns than usual,\Nbut all of the more reasons to go at it,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.20,0:46:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a substantive way, and deal with\Nthe credibility of, you know, ensuring
Dialogue: 0,0:46:29.75,0:46:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the credibility so, it's good that you've got\Nthe, sort of, senior reviewer status,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:34.21,0:46:38.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but various forms of badges and recognition\Nhaving annual conference for those
Dialogue: 0,0:46:38.42,0:46:42.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who participating, bringing them in,\Nbringing them together, raising their stature,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:42.53,0:46:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making them leaders of the project,\Ngiving them decision making power
Dialogue: 0,0:46:45.88,0:46:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and supervision to control any problems.\NThere's lots of ways you can go much further
Dialogue: 0,0:46:51.28,0:46:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and demanding more of your users \Nwill actually causing them to engage more.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:56.56,0:46:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So don't be afraid about that. \NI have one particular question about
Dialogue: 0,0:46:59.50,0:47:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the 1500. You have some distribution\Nof the demographics, I mean there's
Dialogue: 0,0:47:03.05,0:47:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two theories. One says that, well,\Nthe museum patrons and interests
Dialogue: 0,0:47:06.32,0:47:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are of an older demographic, and \Nthe other says, well, it's the kids who
Dialogue: 0,0:47:10.22,0:47:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are doing online citizen science,\Nso help me with that one.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:14.28,0:47:16.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) Well it's a little bit skewed,\Nbut there's again, a lot of our outreach's
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.39,0:47:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been through teachers, so, most\Nusers here are school-aged,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:19.97,0:47:23.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so my best users have been in middle school.\NWhich is for our middle-school educators
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.47,0:47:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been incredibly gratifying. \NBut as far as our power users,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.83,0:47:34.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who find us not through a school,\Njust on their own, and then, crank out
Dialogue: 0,0:47:34.70,0:47:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the data, they for the most part\Nbeen in college or just out of college.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:40.79,0:47:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I mean you could do a lot more,\NI am a supporter, I am a contributor
Dialogue: 0,0:47:46.47,0:47:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a member at -- I have no idea \Nabout the Lodz Ghetto project.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:50.07,0:47:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just not advertised, doesn't reach\Nme, in either the email traffic I get from
Dialogue: 0,0:47:54.28,0:47:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,USAHMM or the printed materials,\Nor the annual reports or anything
Dialogue: 0,0:47:59.29,0:48:03.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I get, so I mean I think there's a way\Nthat you should be less shy, you should be
Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.78,0:48:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more bold in making these projects \Nare more visible. That will raise the issue
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.68,0:48:13.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of credibility but also the value \Nto the museum and you need the
Dialogue: 0,0:48:13.61,0:48:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,buy-in of the people upstairs.\NYour directors and your boards.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:18.69,0:48:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To be able to be into this.\NI mean, a memorable day was --
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.52,0:48:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was working and writing plan\Nfor computers in this museum
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.08,0:48:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the 70 members of the Holocaust\Nmemorial board, many spoke up against it
Dialogue: 0,0:48:31.10,0:48:37.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying things like, "If the Nazis had computers,\Nyou know, etc." So it was [Shanky Wineburg]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:37.14,0:48:40.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was, sort of, the lead designer\Nof this, who said, I mean, settled it all
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.95,0:48:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a very sharp quote, he said\N"Computers are the best way for
Dialogue: 0,0:48:45.34,0:48:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next generation to learn about the Holocaust."\NAnd it was over. You know, making that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:50.70,0:48:56.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forcible statement, that this is important, and\NI'm glad to help you, if that would be useful.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:56.36,0:49:00.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm writing you an email, so\Nyou'd be on with that, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:00.47,0:49:06.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there's a lot that you can\Nand should be doing and revving up
Dialogue: 0,0:49:06.28,0:49:12.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,internally as well as externally,\Nabsolutely the way to go.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:12.12,0:49:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) I think what's interesting\Nis that if you trust your users enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:16.68,0:49:23.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say Holocaust deniers did get a hold of\Nsome material, I mean, how do you
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.28,0:49:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,teach people to do history well?\NHistory is all about refuting arguments
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.74,0:49:33.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that don't hold up and learning\Nhow to do that, and understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:49:33.57,0:49:39.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those arguments will inevitably\Ncrop up all the time, and as you raise
Dialogue: 0,0:49:39.43,0:49:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your profile you will get more of that.\NSo be prepared, but go there.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.31,0:49:48.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) Maybe the analogy to look at\Nwith the cranks and so forth is,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:48.43,0:49:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is open source software community.\NThey're, by opening up the software,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:54.88,0:49:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have a better chance of creating\Nsomething that is robust, and
Dialogue: 0,0:49:57.88,0:50:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's going to be protected then if you\Ntry to keep it to yourself, control it.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.80,0:50:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I was thinking, while we're \Nplanning follow-up projects where you
Dialogue: 0,0:50:07.91,0:50:10.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:50:10.36,0:50:16.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Muñoz) You mentioned that the audience\Nfor this is still predominantly American.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.71,0:50:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Partly imagine that's because of working\Nwith classes, but I wonder whether
Dialogue: 0,0:50:20.50,0:50:25.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there isn't a kind of pen-pal-esque kind of\Nangle to this, right - the internet,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:25.08,0:50:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is everywhere and you know,\Nthe descendants of many of the people,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:28.80,0:50:32.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people who might know about this,\Nor have other sources of information
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.10,0:50:37.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are obviously probably still in, might still\Nbe in Europe, or in Israel or wherever.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.85,0:50:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I wonder about, sort of, a global\Noutreach, sort of, piece, and how that
Dialogue: 0,0:50:41.53,0:50:47.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fits in with the museum's position,\Nvis a vis the other Holocaust and remembrance
Dialogue: 0,0:50:47.74,0:50:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,institutions.\N(Elissa) My interns actually are working on
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.49,0:50:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,German language arts program,\Nshe's coming to us from Berlin this year.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:56.06,0:50:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was totally jazzed about the Lodz\NGhetto project, and probably are
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.54,0:51:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our heaviest moderator at the moment.\NAnd I should send my boss a review,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:05.69,0:51:10.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a German language outreach program,\Nto German schools, based on the things
Dialogue: 0,0:51:10.62,0:51:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their curriculum, and be able to --\NWe had a group of teachers
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.01,0:51:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Poland who came in last year.\NAnd I was asked to come and present
Dialogue: 0,0:51:18.48,0:51:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the project to them. And there's actually\Na lot of hesitancy about it, that
Dialogue: 0,0:51:22.38,0:51:27.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they didn't like the concept or the framework.\NExcept one woman who actually was
Dialogue: 0,0:51:27.99,0:51:32.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Lodz, and she said it was a brilliant\Nidea and that her students would love
Dialogue: 0,0:51:32.71,0:51:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work on it. Part of the problem is\Nthat our resources are in English,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:37.53,0:51:42.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the data is in German. \NSo we have to go through and say that
Dialogue: 0,0:51:42.36,0:51:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, 'name' means name and 'vorname' is\Nfirst name. And do that explication
Dialogue: 0,0:51:49.10,0:51:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for our English speaking audience, so there's \Na German language cheatsheet.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:53.65,0:51:57.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for our German speakers they've already\Ngot the data at their disposal
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.51,0:52:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a lot of them are taught English\Nin schools. I'm not as familiar with how other --
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.14,0:52:07.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess we could view it as just English\Nclass project, for schools. But I think
Dialogue: 0,0:52:07.56,0:52:12.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's an excellent idea that we've paired\Nthis with our global outreach since part
Dialogue: 0,0:52:12.45,0:52:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this project still sits in a division\Ncalled the global classroom
Dialogue: 0,0:52:15.74,0:52:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we do talk about outreach\Nto the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:19.01,0:52:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I'm curious about the Polish \Nteachers' hesitancy.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:22.31,0:52:31.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Elissa) Um, it was bad. Yeah, they didn't \Nlike the way we were posing our questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.94,0:52:37.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The fact that we just open these students\Nup for anybody to come and look at them.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:37.02,0:52:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think there's also some hesitancy about\Nthe way that we are reading history.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:43.76,0:52:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again the idea that history is, being\Nsomething that is open. They weren't
Dialogue: 0,0:52:46.96,0:52:51.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as comfortable with just having that be our framework,\Nthat there could be new questions
Dialogue: 0,0:52:51.44,0:52:55.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming out of them. And I'm not sure if that was,\NI'm sure it's not just
Dialogue: 0,0:52:55.15,0:52:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the polish teacher mindset\Nthat it was a particular group
Dialogue: 0,0:52:58.73,0:53:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with particular questions they were posing.\NAnd I definitely imagine that
Dialogue: 0,0:53:02.64,0:53:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we are working with different\Ngroup of teachers and have different outcome.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:09.85,0:53:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Fraistat) If there are no other questions\Nor comments, let's have a round of applause
Dialogue: 0,0:53:14.08,0:53:16.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a really great presentation.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:16.46,0:53:20.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:53:25.83,0:53:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does not count as genuine.\NThe allographic work, by contrast,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:31.51,0:53:37.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as a musical score or poem\Nhas no one acceptable instance.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:37.22,0:53:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or as Goodman puts it, all correct\Nperformances or renditions of the work
Dialogue: 0,0:53:42.76,0:53:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are equally genuine instances o f it.\NAllographic art, therefore we may
Dialogue: 0,0:53:48.70,0:53:54.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thereby define as a rule-bound.\NPondering the question, Goodman asks,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:54.69,0:54:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Could institution of a notational system\Ntransform painting or acting from
Dialogue: 0,0:54:00.50,0:54:06.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an autographic, into an allographic art."\NWell Goodman answers the question
Dialogue: 0,0:54:06.48,0:54:09.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the negative. "The development of\Ntime-based media suggest that
Dialogue: 0,0:54:09.94,0:54:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we reconsider the issue. Past the work\Nof art in the digital era, become akin
Dialogue: 0,0:54:15.56,0:54:21.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a symphony or a publication."\NDoes the aim of curators, conservators,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:21.61,0:54:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical specialist and artists to sort out\Nthe implications of such questions going forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:27.28,0:54:33.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As we consider the ramifications of time-based\Nart, which can be reproduced and decimated
Dialogue: 0,0:54:33.25,0:54:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,outside the realm of traditional museum\Nenvironments, what is the significance.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:38.61,0:54:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of showing such work in museums, \Nin a laminar institutions to become repositories
Dialogue: 0,0:54:44.18,0:54:49.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for such work. When might it be appropriate\Nto recognize that a work of art is essentially
Dialogue: 0,0:54:49.95,0:54:57.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ephemeral. And when and why might we want\Nto take steps to preserve it and perhaps
Dialogue: 0,0:54:57.28,0:55:03.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to transform it in order to preserve it.\NTo do so, ultimately, is to privilege
Dialogue: 0,0:55:03.11,0:55:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the idea over matter, recognizing that\Nwe must inevitably allow the medium
Dialogue: 0,0:55:08.77,0:55:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which the work was originally executed\Nto evolve, in the service of its presentation.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:15.21,0:55:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The opportunity to collect exhibit and\Npreserve time-based art, thus provides
Dialogue: 0,0:55:19.88,0:55:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an exceptional opportunity to consider\Nthe philosophical locations of new media
Dialogue: 0,0:55:25.29,0:55:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for understanding our world and our selves.\NAs well as to explore the technical
Dialogue: 0,0:55:29.86,0:55:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and intellectual challenges of preserving \Nthese works for future audiences,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:34.65,0:55:41.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for providing access to them,\Nfor audiences now and tomorrow.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:41.72,0:55:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The new technological environment\Nproduced by digital media further
Dialogue: 0,0:55:45.61,0:55:50.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privileges the value of interdisciplinary\Nand interinstitutional collaboration,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:50.91,0:55:55.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we explore the tools and strategies\Nnecessarily to share time-based and
Dialogue: 0,0:55:55.70,0:56:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,digital works with future generations.\NAnd on that note, I thank you so much
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.96,0:56:06.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for your attention. And I very much looking\Nforward to hearing your thoughts, observations
Dialogue: 0,0:56:06.03,0:56:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and questions. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:08.62,0:56:11.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:56:17.68,0:56:21.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) Yes\N(Audience) First of all, I have a critical
Dialogue: 0,0:56:21.02,0:56:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question to ask, first of all let me give a --\Nthanking you for that extraordinary
Dialogue: 0,0:56:24.83,0:56:28.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presentation. I don't get to introduce myself\Nas I was away. I'm sorry about that,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:28.94,0:56:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm coming to mid presentations\Nfor years now as a fellow here.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:33.12,0:56:38.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is one of the most remarkable\Nthat I've seen. There's a lot of deeper
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.55,0:56:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,respect behind these questions.\NMy question is this: on the note of
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.03,0:56:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Benjamin] and he's sort of,\Nwho was a figure that I distrust,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:47.88,0:56:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as someone was, as far as this type\Ngoes as well, and he's mentoring
Dialogue: 0,0:56:51.14,0:56:55.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,notions of the subject rendering\Nmanagement of flux. I wanted to
Dialogue: 0,0:56:55.64,0:57:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get you to reflect on the fact --\Nthere's a brave fascination in your idea
Dialogue: 0,0:57:00.49,0:57:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the time series, and the various\Nflooring that go on with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:04.66,0:57:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can get the point about how \Nconventional ways of formulating
Dialogue: 0,0:57:08.22,0:57:12.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subjectivity are under attack.\NBut it strikes me as paradoxical
Dialogue: 0,0:57:12.99,0:57:17.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the portrait library would be\Nthis place where this radical project
Dialogue: 0,0:57:17.94,0:57:21.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be going on, and before I want\Nto do that, would rather -- first of all
Dialogue: 0,0:57:21.38,0:57:25.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it seems to me that a lot of these\Nradical experiment that you put forward
Dialogue: 0,0:57:25.24,0:57:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are actually predicated just as much\Nas [Benjamin]'s essays of [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:57:29.74,0:57:34.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a really nostalgic impulse to recover\Nthe subject in the first place.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:34.22,0:57:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I see those three late night \Ntalk show hosts, I was shocked by the news.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:39.26,0:57:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is I think what the lips are supposed\Nto feel, that the identity of it all,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:42.62,0:57:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that there were, makes me\Nlong for a world that is better than that.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:48.02,0:57:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a reflection of my alienating world\Nthat I want to see the individual,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:52.42,0:57:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so there's the nostalgia there.\NBut I think the problem is even greater
Dialogue: 0,0:57:57.12,0:58:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than that in my mind, that I constant\Nto engage in this radical project while
Dialogue: 0,0:58:01.84,0:58:09.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presuming that the subject is going \Nto be a portrait, is to presume the very
Dialogue: 0,0:58:09.21,0:58:13.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing that was the problem in the \Nfirst place, you know what I mean?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:13.34,0:58:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, if I can put it, it's like the idea\Nof presuming the individual subjects
Dialogue: 0,0:58:19.21,0:58:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that to attack that idea, is stacking --\Nis not a radical project in the first place.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:26.02,0:58:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I put Lebron James all by himself\Nin a cube and evacuate the entire cube
Dialogue: 0,0:58:31.61,0:58:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of everything in the world except\Nimages of himself and then conduct
Dialogue: 0,0:58:36.27,0:58:40.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a radical decentering from that,\NI pre-supposed in the first place
Dialogue: 0,0:58:40.99,0:58:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in totally artificial terms, one, I'm presuming\Nthat radically to attack.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:46.42,0:58:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's something about this project \Ngoing on in the space of the portrait gallery
Dialogue: 0,0:58:50.42,0:58:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that seems to presume the erratic enemy\Nin the first place, I just wanted put --
Dialogue: 0,0:58:55.02,0:58:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) I think it's a fabulous -- I think\NIt's a really really fabulous set of observations
Dialogue: 0,0:58:59.60,0:59:03.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you put forward and I thank you\Nso much for that, and I have to say
Dialogue: 0,0:59:03.61,0:59:08.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the things that I love so much about\N[Benjamin] and it's like any great author,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:08.57,0:59:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that keeps me coming back\Nover and over is there are so many facets
Dialogue: 0,0:59:13.63,0:59:19.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obviously to all of his essays. I have to\Nadmit the work of art in the age of mechanical
Dialogue: 0,0:59:19.53,0:59:24.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reproduction is this magnet for me.\NAnd I'm just -- I put it obvious, I think you're
Dialogue: 0,0:59:24.69,0:59:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right, that he seems to be in many instances\Nsort of battling with his own sense of nostalgia.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:33.75,0:59:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I will also say that I think I really do\Nconsider his work extraordinarily artful.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:40.88,0:59:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's obviously very self conscious in it's \Nconstruction, as is the case with the artworks
Dialogue: 0,0:59:46.16,0:59:50.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I shared with you today. And so I guess\Nfirst and foremost I would say
Dialogue: 0,0:59:50.50,0:59:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think there's any one way to read\Nany of these, and that ultimately
Dialogue: 0,0:59:54.61,0:59:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the fascination. There are lots of \Ndifferent context in which these can
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.92,1:00:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,function. I do think that the work of art\Nin the age of mechanical reproduction
Dialogue: 0,1:00:04.19,1:00:09.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,itself in terms of observations about\Nsubjectivity is really really interesting,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:09.61,1:00:14.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly [Lee] in this essay, when he's\Ngrappling with this question of Victorial
Dialogue: 0,1:00:14.15,1:00:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cliffs for example, and really dealing with\Nthe fragmentation of the body,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:17.84,1:00:22.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and new ways in which we could get to\Nliterally see and understand the body of result,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:22.21,1:00:28.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and freeze-frames it and photographic interventions\Non, but that's a little bit of an aside.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:28.51,1:00:32.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you bring up the really important question\Nof, alright, if I'm working at the portrait
Dialogue: 0,1:00:32.72,1:00:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gallery, how can I -- I notices it's not directed\Npersonally, but how can one who is attached
Dialogue: 0,1:00:37.73,1:00:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this notion of a portrait gallery in the\Nfirst place presume to undermine this notion
Dialogue: 0,1:00:42.52,1:00:49.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of an individual hand-on one of the things\Nthat is important to understand about
Dialogue: 0,1:00:49.45,1:00:53.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the notion of the portrait gallery itself.\NI don't mean just ours, but this larger
Dialogue: 0,1:00:53.98,1:00:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intellectual framework, as of course,\Nit too has, a history that relates to
Dialogue: 0,1:00:59.63,1:01:05.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a specific set of political developments,\Nand specific set of intellectual developments.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:05.45,1:01:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a product of mid nineteen century,\Nit seems to be a very British concept,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:10.96,1:01:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is interesting, [Norship Pointing]\Nfor example, has made the point that
Dialogue: 0,1:01:14.47,1:01:18.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,portrait galleries tend to exist in the\NEnglish speaking world, which I actually
Dialogue: 0,1:01:18.77,1:01:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have come to think is attached to ways\Nof thinking about the political significance
Dialogue: 0,1:01:26.11,1:01:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the individual unit in society\Nthat is kind of interesting, especially
Dialogue: 0,1:01:30.35,1:01:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with respect to democratic ideals\Nso I have to say actually, I think there's
Dialogue: 0,1:01:34.27,1:01:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something really interesting about the \Nperhaps hidden political assumptions
Dialogue: 0,1:01:39.60,1:01:46.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that go along with the portrait itself.\NBut specifically with respect to trying
Dialogue: 0,1:01:46.09,1:01:51.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to undermine and retask this initial\Nportrait gallery, that has a lot to do
Dialogue: 0,1:01:51.43,1:01:56.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the fact that that's where I happen\Nto find myself as a young curator.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:56.52,1:02:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ended up at the portrait gallery \Nsomewhat unexpectedly shortly after
Dialogue: 0,1:02:01.84,1:02:06.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,finishing graduate school. And I --\None other things that really intrigued
Dialogue: 0,1:02:06.28,1:02:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me about it, and this is going back\Ntwelve years, is that the museum
Dialogue: 0,1:02:11.33,1:02:18.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,underwent a very self-conscious \Nreinvention between 2001 and 2006
Dialogue: 0,1:02:18.15,1:02:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it was actually under physical renovation.\NAnd there was a desire to re-examine
Dialogue: 0,1:02:22.79,1:02:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the very principles of portraiture, which\NI think has tended to be a form of art making
Dialogue: 0,1:02:29.78,1:02:34.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has not gotten a significant amount\Nof credit, I think in the recent past,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:34.14,1:02:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been seen as a somewhat tired genre,\Nin fact, in the sixties lots of artists refuse
Dialogue: 0,1:02:40.46,1:02:45.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use that term, we think of Chuck Close \Nfor example, who does these giant faces.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:45.58,1:02:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But during the sixties he called them heads.\NHe would not acknowledge until relatively
Dialogue: 0,1:02:51.19,1:02:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recently that they are a form of portraiture.\NAnd so one of my pleasures, pleasures
Dialogue: 0,1:02:58.72,1:03:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perhaps as a curator has been to ask\Naudience to reconsider what they think
Dialogue: 0,1:03:04.81,1:03:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they know about portraiture by thinking\Nof it -- and this is a thorny term, I'm using
Dialogue: 0,1:03:11.60,1:03:18.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that word, but I wanted to do is to undo\Nthe notion of portraiture and to recast it
Dialogue: 0,1:03:18.11,1:03:22.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit as a way of thinking about\Nidentity and breaking down personal identity.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:22.93,1:03:26.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think you are right to bring up\Nthe question about whether or not
Dialogue: 0,1:03:26.78,1:03:37.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are in fact some, you know, some \Ntypes of paradoxes or some assumptions
Dialogue: 0,1:03:37.10,1:03:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are invented in there that are,\Nyou know, in some sense, going against
Dialogue: 0,1:03:41.41,1:03:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the grain of the deeper thinking here.\NIt is really interesting to me to talk with
Dialogue: 0,1:03:47.26,1:03:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contemporary artists and, actually,\Na project I'm working on right now
Dialogue: 0,1:03:50.99,1:03:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is about portrait extraction, who really\Ndo very actively seem to be rediscovering
Dialogue: 0,1:03:56.84,1:04:01.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or re-examining a notion which certainly\Ngoes back to the Renaissance and this is
Dialogue: 0,1:04:01.32,1:04:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the notion that somehow in depicting \Nanybody else, or anything else,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:05.77,1:04:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an artist is obviously reflecting something\Nof who he or she is, but I think the idea
Dialogue: 0,1:04:11.30,1:04:16.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that entity can somehow be seen\Nas an envelope, that is impervious to
Dialogue: 0,1:04:16.46,1:04:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,outside influence is really completely \Ndisintegrated. And yet side by side with that
Dialogue: 0,1:04:22.82,1:04:26.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we know that we live in this incredible \Nculture of celebrity, and of course
Dialogue: 0,1:04:26.75,1:04:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Worhose] was critiquing , so there \Ndefinitely I think it's a very very very intersting
Dialogue: 0,1:04:31.97,1:04:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,push-pull and I think you are right\Nto raise these questions on --
Dialogue: 0,1:04:39.70,1:04:41.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm not sure that's a very satisfying \Nresponse.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:41.91,1:04:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I just wanted to underscore that\Nall these paradoxes that that you unintendedly
Dialogue: 0,1:04:47.59,1:04:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fly by underscore the interest of these lines.\NBecause it seems to me to speak to the
Dialogue: 0,1:04:52.90,1:04:57.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contradiction of the world that we live in.\NSo thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:57.24,1:05:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) Oh, thank you. Thank for your\Nwonderful question.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:01.04,1:05:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) Hi, um, thank you for having us,\Nyour talk was interesting.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:04.45,1:05:10.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was wondering if the distinction of [inaudible]\Nautographic and allographic artwork
Dialogue: 0,1:05:10.69,1:05:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can really be helpful for preservation,\Nto artworks, because I think
Dialogue: 0,1:05:16.13,1:05:25.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the distinction is not that evident or --\Nthere's more of a learning space between
Dialogue: 0,1:05:25.15,1:05:29.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the two, and I think they really applies to\Nall the media that is - all the work so far,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:29.41,1:05:36.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are not necessarily time-based.\NFor example, sculpture by Turner,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:36.68,1:05:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the way that it has to be reorganized\Nin the gallery according to certain
Dialogue: 0,1:05:43.04,1:05:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instructions because it travels in pieces,\Nbut it has to be organized. You see,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:48.10,1:05:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, in a way of performance, all the work,\Nbecause if something goes wrong,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:52.41,1:05:57.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you don't know where the things are,\Nyou could argue that you are creating
Dialogue: 0,1:05:57.14,1:06:01.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a new work if you do that. So that means\Nif the first time that that was done
Dialogue: 0,1:06:01.36,1:06:06.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the artist himself, that was the autograph\Nand is lost or maybe preserved through
Dialogue: 0,1:06:06.94,1:06:14.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,photography. So that work is un-autographic\Nbut it also has autographic instances.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:14.77,1:06:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then it becomes untruthful work\Nso that if I show you a music as well,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:18.98,1:06:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a sense you can have performances\Nin terms of someone performing the work
Dialogue: 0,1:06:24.74,1:06:27.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for, someone creating a new addition, \Nbut there will always be someone
Dialogue: 0,1:06:27.85,1:06:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that goes in before, the autographic\Ninstances are very in, manuscript, for example.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:33.73,1:06:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we think [inaudible]\Nthey exist in time-based media,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:39.90,1:06:46.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you will look for it in each of the page,\Nyou will look for proof of the first instance
Dialogue: 0,1:06:46.91,1:06:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these sequence of art manifestations \Nthat will be steadily generated by the artists.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:55.23,1:07:01.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, where's about that option\N[inaudible] for preservation.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:01.88,1:07:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) That's a really interesting point.\NI guess the assumption that you make
Dialogue: 0,1:07:05.65,1:07:08.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there will always a desire to go\Nback to the original form of the
Dialogue: 0,1:07:08.53,1:07:13.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time-based piece, I think it's not\Nnecessarily something that you should in fact
Dialogue: 0,1:07:13.19,1:07:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be taking for granted. It's actually\Nsomething, of course I have really
Dialogue: 0,1:07:17.06,1:07:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,great colleagues, but it is a discussion\Nthat I had with members of our staff.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:21.76,1:07:25.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why do we need to hold on to this\Noriginal form, and again, this is where
Dialogue: 0,1:07:25.97,1:07:29.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the paradigm of being about \Nbeing a historian is so important.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:29.59,1:07:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That my colleagues in exhibitions\Ndepartment were more focused on
Dialogue: 0,1:07:33.95,1:07:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the here and the now, and getting it up\Non the wall, for them, it's sort of,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:37.08,1:07:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,excess baggage to worry about\Nthe sixteen iterations that perceive it
Dialogue: 0,1:07:41.30,1:07:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not meaningful in the same way\Nin that context as it is to me.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:45.32,1:07:49.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they understand the value of \Npreserving it, and ultimately I think that
Dialogue: 0,1:07:49.30,1:07:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's where the framework of the museum\Nmaybe have something special to
Dialogue: 0,1:07:53.10,1:07:57.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contribute to this dialogue, but this\Ndistinction between allographic
Dialogue: 0,1:07:57.75,1:08:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and autographic I agree, is not a perfect one.\NAnd in fact I think there are ways in which
Dialogue: 0,1:08:02.41,1:08:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intentions that we observe in the world of\Ntime-based and digital media
Dialogue: 0,1:08:06.46,1:08:12.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are in fact really simply shedding light\Non old problems that have always
Dialogue: 0,1:08:12.49,1:08:16.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been there. Our conservation, has always\Nbeen about intervention into, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:16.84,1:08:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so-called erratic original, and \Nthe conservator has to make choices
Dialogue: 0,1:08:22.70,1:08:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how to best represent the intent\Nof the original artist or at least what
Dialogue: 0,1:08:28.82,1:08:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is understood as being the original intent.\NAnd what I really wanted to do with that
Dialogue: 0,1:08:33.32,1:08:39.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,distinction was to, I guess, disengage from\Nthe idea that there is some inherent,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:39.49,1:08:43.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, of, but I as a historian I do think\Nthere are things to be learned from
Dialogue: 0,1:08:43.21,1:08:46.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the original that may not even be\Ninteresting to the artist, however,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:46.03,1:08:51.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that aside, I wanted to make a point that\Nif we begin to re-conceptualize visual art,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:51.30,1:08:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is traditionally been seen as something\Nwhich is the product of an erratic genius.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:56.32,1:09:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, [Benjamin] is obviously trying\Nto disengage that, but it's sort of,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:00.50,1:09:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[fidelization] that continues, that we can\Nbegin to see these works of art as things
Dialogue: 0,1:09:07.18,1:09:13.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can migrate and retain some resemblance\Nof authenticity, no matter what medium
Dialogue: 0,1:09:13.33,1:09:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are executed in, as long as they visually\Nrepresent or conceptually represent
Dialogue: 0,1:09:18.04,1:09:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the artist wanted that piece to be,\Nbut I do think it's an imperfect metaphor.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:24.16,1:09:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things are going to change, things are\Ngoing to deteriorate and something ultimately
Dialogue: 0,1:09:27.41,1:09:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe a representation of itself.\NAnd that becomes, I think it's almost
Dialogue: 0,1:09:31.48,1:09:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of interesting philosophical conundrum,\Nand I'll just say one more thing.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:37.08,1:09:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is simply to observe that this notion\Nof authenticity also functions
Dialogue: 0,1:09:41.94,1:09:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,slightly differently for people who are\Ninterested in preserving data,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:45.84,1:09:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and making sure that the data itself\Ndoesn't get corrupted. So in fact,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:48.55,1:09:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that lots of interesting layers\Nget added in here, that are worth
Dialogue: 0,1:09:53.67,1:09:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinking about, but it's a great question.\NThank you.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:59.52,1:10:06.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) I wanted to point out that\Nthe idea of the essential self which
Dialogue: 0,1:10:06.80,1:10:13.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be captured in the portrait is rather\Na naive notion or is at fault with the public
Dialogue: 0,1:10:13.25,1:10:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presentation of a person. Everybody knows\Nthese people have private lives.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:17.39,1:10:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody knows they did all sorts of things,\Nthey were complex beings. And if you take
Dialogue: 0,1:10:22.04,1:10:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something like -- well, it doesn't take\Nnew media to bring out the complications
Dialogue: 0,1:10:30.77,1:10:34.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the first place. You know, the diaries \Nthem-self are worth one avenue,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:34.33,1:10:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the other thing is, photographic,\Npresentation as in for instance,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:38.97,1:10:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,David Duncan spoke on Picasso\Nthe private Picasso, he has this big
Dialogue: 0,1:10:43.28,1:10:48.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,photographic record of Picasso \Nin the fifties, the forties and fifties,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:48.46,1:10:53.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you get this much complication.\NIn fact, you get a whole lot more complications
Dialogue: 0,1:10:53.01,1:10:58.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there than you can get in your average\Npresentation, well, you know, the one
Dialogue: 0,1:10:58.12,1:11:03.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of [Gitzburg], for instance. You get \Nas much from David Duncan as you do
Dialogue: 0,1:11:03.67,1:11:09.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the new media presentation.\NAnd digitization doesn't actually change
Dialogue: 0,1:11:09.83,1:11:17.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anything so it's not quite that our notion\Nof a person's identity is modified by
Dialogue: 0,1:11:17.33,1:11:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the exposure of new media. The exposure\Nof new media is interesting if it's own right.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:22.65,1:11:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it doesn't change the basic concepts\Nthat we have of who we are,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:27.55,1:11:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what persons are, what vulnerabilities \Nand complications we have.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:32.20,1:11:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) I think that's such a great\Nobservation and would be so much fun
Dialogue: 0,1:11:35.69,1:11:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to dig into that question with you,\NI would submit, I would like for the sake
Dialogue: 0,1:11:42.76,1:11:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of argument maybe put forward the idea\Nthat I really do think there are ways
Dialogue: 0,1:11:47.77,1:11:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which we are developing new insights\Nin the present day about self on which
Dialogue: 0,1:11:54.03,1:11:57.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perhaps are giving us new tools \Nto go back and look at the past.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:57.98,1:12:03.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, the querying of the history\Nof art, for example. Not necessarily,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:03.99,1:12:08.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is not to say that things were not\Npresent previously that complicates
Dialogue: 0,1:12:08.93,1:12:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the picture, I think you are absolutely\Nright that there's always been
Dialogue: 0,1:12:12.72,1:12:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complexity with the human self.\NBut it is interesting to go back
Dialogue: 0,1:12:15.73,1:12:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and look at the language that\Nthe artists use at least, in describing
Dialogue: 0,1:12:19.22,1:12:23.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their projects. Even somebody like\NAlfred Stieglitz who was such
Dialogue: 0,1:12:23.46,1:12:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a perceptive and sophisticated photographer,\Nreally looked for the essential moment
Dialogue: 0,1:12:29.38,1:12:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to capture somebody. And it's a language\Nbut there's somehow I think, embedded
Dialogue: 0,1:12:34.75,1:12:40.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that presumption of a privileged way\Nof understanding somebody. And yet of course
Dialogue: 0,1:12:40.62,1:12:46.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he did lots of different portraits of O'keeffe,\Nyou can look at that series of portrait
Dialogue: 0,1:12:46.00,1:12:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presentations.\N(Audience) I would not trust what an artist
Dialogue: 0,1:12:48.71,1:12:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,says about his own project. It just isn't reliable.\NIt is self-promotional and --
Dialogue: 0,1:12:56.12,1:13:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) There's a narrative-reflective\Nparadigm but I loved -- I think your point
Dialogue: 0,1:13:00.33,1:13:02.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an excellent one. I think you are \Npervasing it.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:02.98,1:13:05.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Host) We have time for two more,\Nand there's a few people who have been waiting.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:05.93,1:13:09.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So one there and then at the back.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:09.08,1:13:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) Dealing with authenticity,\Nhow, whenever you are deciding
Dialogue: 0,1:13:14.73,1:13:21.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to migrate or provide forms for\Ncurrent exhibition, how do you deal
Dialogue: 0,1:13:21.69,1:13:27.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with deterioration versus intent.\NFor example, in [Globagrew]
Dialogue: 0,1:13:27.46,1:13:33.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the artist manipulated the signal \Nto get different colors and distortion.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:33.29,1:13:36.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you know what's genuine\Nand how do you know what's real?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:36.67,1:13:41.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Especially with film, if it's a color film\Nand there's red shift, was that intended?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:41.42,1:13:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) Yeah, you know, the weird thing\Nis that you don't always know, actually.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:45.54,1:13:51.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a great piece at the [Hershorn]\Nby John -- no not John Jordan, um,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:51.51,1:13:56.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh goodness, actually the artist's name\Nhas just slipped my mind. But I'll get it
Dialogue: 0,1:13:56.28,1:14:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for you. There's this great film piece\Nby a very interesting artist who was
Dialogue: 0,1:14:01.03,1:14:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working in the seventies which is a film piece,\Nand there is sound that goes with it.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:07.67,1:14:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's a little bit of a hypothesis,\Nabout how we think the artist wanted
Dialogue: 0,1:14:12.88,1:14:16.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that particular piece to be installed.\NAnd the problem is there's an absence
Dialogue: 0,1:14:16.90,1:14:21.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of documentation. So actually, \None of the things that's really interesting
Dialogue: 0,1:14:21.59,1:14:27.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this goes to, really actually, any\Nperiod of artwork that we really have to
Dialogue: 0,1:14:27.31,1:14:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rely very heavily upon an interpretive\Nframework. And so one other thing
Dialogue: 0,1:14:31.90,1:14:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've been doing in terms of looking\Nat this question about some practices
Dialogue: 0,1:14:35.72,1:14:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to think about what it means to\Ndocument the intention of the artist,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:39.37,1:14:43.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the outside. And so for example \Nwhat we try to document now,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:43.58,1:14:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recognizing that this information can\Nvery very quickly disappear, is, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:48.58,1:14:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how does the artist want the piece to look\Nwhat it -- look when it's installed.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:52.30,1:14:56.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is it supposed to sound like,\Nand of course inevitably even when
Dialogue: 0,1:14:56.42,1:15:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one tried to document these things\Nmeticulously, we have to recognize that
Dialogue: 0,1:15:01.76,1:15:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's inevitably going to be some slippage.\NEven when you think you are being very
Dialogue: 0,1:15:07.22,1:15:11.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meticulous, things like processing\Ntimes, for computers can change.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:11.54,1:15:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I have to say that we do our best\Nto develop data that gives us as many
Dialogue: 0,1:15:20.05,1:15:25.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,points of reference as possible, \Nbut I think ultimately we have to recognize
Dialogue: 0,1:15:25.25,1:15:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it is to a certain degree,\Nan imperfect science. We also something
Dialogue: 0,1:15:30.65,1:15:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called a Checksum value to try to \Ndetermine that the data moving forward
Dialogue: 0,1:15:35.39,1:15:41.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is kept in tack, but I think it's very\Ninteresting that historically the --
Dialogue: 0,1:15:41.96,1:15:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to be sure that there are it,\Nproblems for example, with the migration
Dialogue: 0,1:15:46.92,1:15:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of video into digital format, except\Nthere's been curators, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:51.25,1:15:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[conservators], or probably curators too,\Nand certainly conservators who sit and look
Dialogue: 0,1:15:55.62,1:16:00.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intently at something to be sure that\Nthere are no disruptions. We can't do that
Dialogue: 0,1:16:00.16,1:16:04.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a generative work, so we've moved\Nbeyond the point at which human perception
Dialogue: 0,1:16:04.63,1:16:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can really answer these questions for us.\NAnd so I think on a certain level we have to
Dialogue: 0,1:16:09.86,1:16:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accept a certain degree of slippage,\Nand a certain degree of imperfection,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:15.57,1:16:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inability to completely nail something down,\Nand again, that is kind of a mind shift.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:21.55,1:16:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've become comfortable with the fact\Nthat we know everything will always be
Dialogue: 0,1:16:25.05,1:16:29.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something of an observation.\NSo I don't know if that --
Dialogue: 0,1:16:29.43,1:16:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) Those helped. Thank you.\N(Host) So I'm afraid that we are out of time,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:33.94,1:16:38.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sure Anne will be happy to stick around\Nif there are a couple of more questions,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:38.52,1:16:41.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but let's thank her for a really interesting clip.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:41.17,1:16:44.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:16:50.27,1:16:53.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) I can definitely stick around.\N(Audience) What is a generative?
Dialogue: 0,1:16:53.21,1:16:58.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Anne) Oh right, we started with this term of --\Nyeah, it's a relatively new term and it refers
Dialogue: 0,1:16:58.89,1:17:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to artwork that has no -- that doesn't loop.\NThat is continuously changing, so there is
Dialogue: 0,1:17:05.38,1:17:10.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,code behind the image that leads to\Never-changing permutations of the way
Dialogue: 0,1:17:10.10,1:17:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which the digital data is combined\Nand output. So there is no one instance
Dialogue: 0,1:17:16.69,1:17:21.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the work. It's constantly changing.\NOne can describe the generative is --
Dialogue: 0,1:17:21.02,1:17:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience) So a network piece,\Nis generative enough? It can
Dialogue: 0,1:17:25.06,1:17:27.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,run on for a hundred years?\N(Anne) Forever. And you'll see
Dialogue: 0,1:17:27.82,1:17:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever-changing combinations.\N(Audience) Yeah, maybe not very
Dialogue: 0,1:17:30.50,1:17:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interestingly different, but none the less.\N(Anne) Yeah that's right, exactly.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:33.50,1:17:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You could just -- you did a pretty good job\Ndescribing it. Especially after fifty
Dialogue: 0,1:17:37.40,1:17:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or so minutes. Yeah.