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（John Baldessari）我一直对非艺术性的东西感兴趣

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我会说，“为什么不呢？”

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我的意思是，我能做什么来使之成为艺术呢？

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我能够怎样转变人们的看法呢？

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（机器声）

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我在创作艺术
我在创作艺术

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我喜欢做艺术，就像突然之间

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我说这是艺术，就会有人相信我

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生活让我感兴趣的在于它荒谬的部分

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（笑声）

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（关门声）

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-你好，约翰
-你好，玛丽

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-我带了几张新的
-好的

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-其中的一些……
-很好

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-我觉得有点问题。这就把它们挂起来。

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-做艺术是一个选择

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对我而言，就像两者中择其一

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选择这种颜色而不是那种，这个物体而不是那一个

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或者，没完没了的选择

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然后你需要作出决定

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-好的，我对这几张的疑问是

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我知道你想给这些图片分别装框，但是

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你是要给他们一个一个装框呢，还是说

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这些会组成一张画，再给这张画装一个框？

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-他们一起装一个框吧。
-好的。

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-好吧，可能不是现在，但是接下来

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我会有其他的问题，我们可以谈一谈

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-好的，没问题

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-我在艺术节崭露头角

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我和观念艺术，极简主义艺术联系很密切

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但从来没有完全认同过

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我觉得有点无聊

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但也有很多方面是我不想去除的

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其中之一就是鉴赏力

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鉴赏力是我放弃油画的一个原因，因为油画

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关注的只有鉴赏力：比如说，合适的红色跟

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合适的蓝色搭配，你需要非常小心地调色

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我决定要在调色的问题上

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采用色环来达到条理清晰的效果

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对，我喜欢那家伙，那个绿色的

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他可能有点太绿了，说不好

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-太绿了吗？
-我还在考虑

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-确实，有点像有毒的绿色
-是这样

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很难说，别的呢？

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我父亲信天主教，母亲信路德教

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我则是去当地的卫理公会教堂

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读圣经让我爱上了文学

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我读的是钦定版圣经

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然后我确实有了道德上的义务感，我猜

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这也就是为什么我在艺术上的起步比较晚，因为我

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因为我看不到艺术对人产生的好处

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艺术治标不治本

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也不能给人提供保护或者别的什么东西

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所以我想成为一个社工

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不得不说，我的艺术生涯要归功于我姐姐

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我拿到艺术学位的时候，她说

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“你要怎么养活自己呢？”

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（笑）

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于是我又考了教师资格证

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教书的关键在于沟通，单纯的授课不起作用

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你需要看到学生听懂了的时候，他们的眼睛发的光

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如果你没有看到他们眼睛的光亮，你就尝试换一种办法

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然后再换个办法，直到他们理解

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后来我就意识到，艺术也是关于沟通的

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我那时候在学习如何通过教书来交流

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然后，艺术带动了

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我的课堂教学，充满了创造性

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事实上，正如我之前说的，
“我做的艺术就是我在”

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“课堂上所讲授的内容，
反过来也一样”

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这两方面可以互换

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有件事要提一提，我教学生怎样观察的时候

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我说，“如果你在同时看两样东西，
别看这两个”

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而是去看他们中间的空隙……

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因为那个空隙也值得观察，这很重要，
而人倾向于选取观察对象

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如果我去看那面墙

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我会自然而然地去看墙上挂着的东西

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但我没有注意

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那两样东西之间的空白，
然而空白是非常重要的

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词语只是我们交流的一种方式

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图像也是我们交流的一种方式

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我不明白为什么它们要被区别看待

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我认为在我这些多图构成的作品里

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可能有这样一个理念，也就是
在图像的背后有一个词语

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我做艺术可能类似于作家或者诗人

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用词语去构建他们的世界

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-约翰来我在加州大学洛杉矶分校的工作室找我

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我们开了个会，他说，“我给你准备了一个职位”

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仅仅听上去

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就令人振奋，不是吗？

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鉴于那个时候

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我知道我的一些同学可能在为他工作

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给他画画，修一修图片

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类似这样的事情

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所以我说，“哇，太好了，我要做什么呢？”

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然后他说，“我有一只狗，需要有人遛一遛它”

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（笑）

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我说，“好的，我考虑一下。”

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他知道我的学业遇到了一些麻烦

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关于我的作品，读研究生的一些

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混乱的想法等等

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所以他说，“好的，每周一，你得把作品拿给我看”

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于是就这样开始了

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我觉得，在做艺术这件事上，他教会了我如何做人

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他工作的方式非常谦逊

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每天早上他都在同一时间过来

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他让你明白，艺术创作是一个漫长的过程

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我的意思是，艺术创作就是向它奉献一生

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刚入行的时候，我仅仅是

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做作品，然后作品被运到美术馆

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然后就得花三四天时间

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来回移动作品的位置，观察一幅作品怎样与另一幅建立联系

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一幅作品的大小如何与另一幅产生关联

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所有的这些问题都会导致

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一幅作品挂在一幅旁边，没有让它挂在另一幅边上看着更好

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（笑）

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