[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.06,0:00:02.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hello, hello and welcome back to A Bit
Dialogue: 0,0:00:02.95,0:00:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fruity, the show where we think that you
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.01,0:00:08.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should never live in the closet, Harry,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.33,0:00:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if the woman who created you changes \Nher mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.30,0:00:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you would like to support the show
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.98,0:00:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or perhaps want a little bit more of the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.16,0:00:19.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,show, we are on Patreon and by the time
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.16,0:00:21.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this episode is up, it'll be around the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.71,0:00:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same time that I upload March's deep dive
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.72,0:00:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on Patreon, which I do every month
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.88,0:00:30.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this month it is on the wokeness of
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.69,0:00:33.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sydney Sweeney. The right just figured
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.23,0:00:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out who Sydney Sweeney is because
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.86,0:00:36.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they saw her on SNL and they never watched
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Euphoria and her being hot is, uh, is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,causing a freakout of epic proportions.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're going to do a little analysis
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a woman's body, which is something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm fairly new to.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, wish me luck.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today we are joined, once again, by
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone I'm honored to call a friend
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the show, Natalie Wynn, or as you may
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know her online, ContraPoints is, an
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ex-philosopher, she is a YouTuber
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think calling her a YouTuber
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is kind of diminutive to her craft.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She puts out a couple feature film-length
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,videos a year that you've probably
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,watched but if you haven't, you really
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should go check those out.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She talks about philosophy, sex and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gender, and capitalism, and twilight.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Natalie Wynn welcome back to A Bit Fruity.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you much for having me back on.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am excited to be here again.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm honored to be a friend of the show.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm honored to have you as a friend
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the show. So, a couple weeks ago
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling, she got caught up in a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little Holocaust denial.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She does Holocaust denial a little from
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time to time, (laughter) yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't always this way. J.K. Rowlings
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wasn't always on Twitter denying
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, uh, queer people were persecuted in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Holocaust. Until 2019, J.K. Rowlings
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a universally beloved children's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,author who taught every kid that there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was magic inside of them no matter how
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cast out they may feel. Today, though,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how would you characterize her position
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the culture today?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, her position in the culture is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of weirdly split, right, cause on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the one hand, there is her continuing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legacy as the author of the wizard books
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on the other hand, there's like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost her entire public persona, that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we mostly experience through Twitter
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is basically obsessive bigotry
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards trans people. That's become
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of her definitive thing, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that people who don't follow this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of don't understand the extent of it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, you know, I don't know, people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,throw around like all kinds of accusations
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on Twitter, so it's easy to think that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is some kind of internet drama
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,blown out of proportion. But what you're
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,missing is that if you have not been
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paying attention to J.K. Rowling's Twitter
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the last, at this point, we're
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about four or five years, which
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a long time. Like, she's basically used
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her platform more often than not to do
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans-bashing. There's a reason why that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this gets talked about so much because,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, she's one of the most famous
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authors in the world with an enormous
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,platform, and she's just using it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constantly to target this small and,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, already besieged, minority of people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are facing, like, all kinds of, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legislative and cultural backlash in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the U.S. and the U.K. So it's like really
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devastating (chuckle) that an author
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, that's this influential is also,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, this obsessively devoted to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,persecute, you know, to contributing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the persecution of this group of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people, who's already so harassed.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's also, I don't know, it's also
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of a bizarre spectacle, like, in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's own right it's kind of like another
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reason I feel like we're drawn to this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe, is that it's kind of like darkly
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fascinating. How does this happen?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, how do we go from, like, the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gryffindor common room and, you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Severus Snape, to, like, these unhinged
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rants about the transexuals. It's weird.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It, it is weird and I think also, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yeah, if you go to J.K. Rowling's Twitter
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right now and scroll through her feed,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is literal years of talking every
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,single day, almost exclusively, about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transgender people, for years.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which I think is the type of behavior
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we associate, with like boomer facebook
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,moms, and then I guess in a sense, she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of would have been that, if she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hadn't become a billionaire and one of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most famous and beloved children's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authors of all time. But she is those
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things and the idea of her behaving the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way, like, our homophobic aunt does
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever, but like from some castle
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the U.K., is just like a very jarring
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,image. (Natalie) I think that summarizes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really well, right, like, it is, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your bigoted aunts deranged Facebook post
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except on a platform with millions of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people as the audience. I feel like we
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a society, have, like, yet to know how
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with this type of thing cause
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling's not the only case of it.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, like, Elon Musk has dabbled
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit in some similar forms of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bigotry with a (inaudible) or even
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,larger platform. But I feel like what's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unique about J.K. Rowling is that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's, like, single mindedly focused on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans people as this one issue.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Matt) So she wasn't always this way,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though and what we're gonna do today
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is use J.K. Rowling as what I think is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a valuable case study in the worm hole
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that transphobia is. The way that it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can serve as it has for J.K. Rowling
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so many millions of other people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a portal into the broader world
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of right-wing ideology that gets pretty
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scary pretty quickly. We're gonna
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,try to understand why transphobia, and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think especially when it's cloaked,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no pun intended, as a progressive feminist
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause and especially effective
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gateway into the alt right. One day
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're reminding people that you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just like to be preferred to as a woman
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that you are a woman and then,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, the next day you are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,participating in Holocaust denial. It can
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen to you. (Natalie) Many such cases.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Matt) Many such cases. And so, to begin
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this story I wanna go back to 2019
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the first tweet that I remember
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seeing of J.K. Rowling's, her foray into
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the anti-trans movement, which at the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beginning was very tepid. I am going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,send you the tweet. (Natalie) "Dress
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,however you please. Call yourself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever you like. Sleep with any
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consenting adult who'll have you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Live your best life in peace and security.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But force women out of their jobs for
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stating that sex is real? Hashtag I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stand with Maya. Hashtag this is not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a drill." (Matt) So what was the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,context of this one?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) So, the context is that there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a English consultant named
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maya Forstater who, I guess she wasn't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fired but her contract was not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,renewed because she had, like, refused
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use the correct pronouns for a trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coworker or something along those lines.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a lot of so called "gender-critical",
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is "transphobic", people in the U.K.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decided to turn this into a celebrated
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause, they, you know, rallied behind
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this hashtag "I stand with maya".
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea being, like, "oh, we shouldn't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to submit to gender ideology by,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, using the correct pronouns
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for trans people in the work place or
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever. This is where J.K. Rowling
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decided to join this discourse
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officially. She decided to jump in on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the side of people who think that it's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terribly oppressive to have to use
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the correct pronouns for a trans person.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I guess at first, you know, there was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some ambiguity because you could be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, "Well she's not transphobic. Maybe
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she just believes in free speech, and she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinks that, you know, that people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shouldn't be fired for having different
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opinions." (inaudible) okay, like, at
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first you could sort of plausibly think
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that maybe, given the benefit of the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doubt, that's why she was getting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved in this. But, like, to people who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of know the pattern that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transphobia takes place, we all pretty
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much knew that, "Oh, okay she really
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is transphobic behind the scenes".
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, there is no way that you would
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-go decide to die on this hill unless\N- Matt: Hmm.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you already were. At least that's what I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think now. I mean, I think J.K. Rowling
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was at her most dangerous in 2019 and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in 2020 because of the stuff she was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying seems kind of plausible and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reasonable to the average person, you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know. And so, there's this kind of like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clever selection of which topics to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get behind, right, instead of just,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know, calling trans women "men"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in dresses, or whatever, it's like she's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,defending the "right" of people to not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,use the correct pronouns if they don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agree, right?. (inaudible) this people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of hedge in this way, like, when
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have a kind of like bigoted opinion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of just stating it out, right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They sort of defend their right to have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-that opinion.\N- Matt: Mhmm.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that was very much with this thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Maya Forstater is, right. It's like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's not saying something sort of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly transphobic, but she is kind of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,indirectly getting there by being like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I am going to publicly champion Maya's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right to be transphobic. "
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Matt) I feel like in the early days
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she did so much of this plausible,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deniability stuff where it's like, you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, "I'm just saying sex is real".
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right? And the average person who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't, like, a terminally online queer
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is going to be like, "Yeah, sex is real,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever, like, who cares."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know? It's like not a big deal.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) Yeah, she was very effective
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,early on at kind of like deciding what
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was that she thought people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were mad about, right? And so she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,framed the conversation, "Oh here's why
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm getting backlashed. I'm getting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,backlash because I said quote on quote
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'sex is real'. And so, it kind of seems
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like if you believe her account of what
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are mad about, then it sounds like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everyone whose mad is unreasonable
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they are mad at her for taking
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this kind of - taking what? An abstract,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,philosophical position about the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,metaphysics of biological sex? Like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that what people are mad about?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, right? It's of course not that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because she is intervening in this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social and political debate, right,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the side that wants trans people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,functionally not to exist in public
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,life, or not to be acknowledged in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public life. So, that is what people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are mad about, right? But early on,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think she was able to kind of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,frame her position as being this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, I don't know, almost philosophical
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,position about the reality of sex or
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something, you know? That is what she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wanted to make it sound like instead of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a political position about the place of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transgender people in society.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you first saw that tweet were, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,alarm bells ringing?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, absolutely. I mean, at that point
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was like, yeah I basically internally
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thought there was like a nine
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hundred and ninety-nine out of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one thousand percent chance that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-it's, as people say, over, right? \N-Matt: (laughter) Right
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's so over, right? Like I already
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically already kind of knew that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I also kind of knew that, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, most people aren't gonna notice
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's over until she says something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more explicit.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until she's doing Holocaust denial.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until she's doing Holocaust denial,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exactly. But, of course, I've seen
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enough people who kind of start this way
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this flirtation with bigotry where
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stage one is usually like, "Well I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support the right for people to be bigots"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, I don't like that there's this,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, cancel culture, whatever politically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,correct - you can't say anything anymore.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, that's usually the prelude to a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bunch of bigoted stuff. It's kind of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a softer way of getting a foot
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the door. Like, you're not necessarily
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committing yourself to saying anything
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bigoted. But you'll stand up for the right
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people to say that and you don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like how, you know, how vicious people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are being towards people who are getting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criticized for saying more bigoted things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In retrospect, it's clear that she's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,preparing the way to be the one saying
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those bigoted things herself.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For a while longer, well into 2020,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she, like, continues this road of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, "sex is real". And so I'm going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,send you another thread.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's funny how I know all of these
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-like, by heart practically\N-Matt: Oh (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-It's like song lyrics (laughter)\N-Natalie: Right? I'm a scholar
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-of the things she has said about\N-Matt: (laughing)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans people, right? Like, "Ah yes,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-tweet seven, verse three".\N-Matt: (wheezes)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know, cause, like, we've read these
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-f***ing tweets so many times\N-Natalie: I know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the last four years has been
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dominated by having to read these
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terrible opinions again and again.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is, honestly, no one should be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,allowed to get this famous. It's too
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dangerous.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, but for the normal people listening
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who aren't so online, do you want to read
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what she tweeted on June 6, I believe,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2020?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) Dear normal people, this is me
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reading from the book of Rowling,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,chapter six (laughter).
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Quote, "If sex isn't real, there's no
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same-sex attraction. If sex isn't real,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the lived reality of women globally
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is erased. I know and love trans people,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but erasing the concept of sex removes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ability of many to meaningfully
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discuss their lives. It isn't hate to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,speak the truth."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tweet two, "The idea that women like me,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who've been empathetic to trans people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for decades, feeling kinship because
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're vulnerable in the same way
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as women - ie. to male violence - 'hate'
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans people because they think sex is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,real and has lived consequences -
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(English): it is a nonsense."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-Natalie: Sorry, (inaudible) I feel I \N-Matt: (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cannot say, "is a nonsense" without doing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-it in an English accent.\N-Matt: (laughing)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) I'm gonna switch to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing an English accent for the last
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one because I feel like, I just feel like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(English) "I respect every trans person's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right to live any way that feels
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authentic and comfortable to them.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd march with you if you were
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discriminated against on the basis
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being trans. At the same time, my
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,life has been shaped by being female.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do not believe it's hateful to say so."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Matt) "I'd march with you if you were
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being discriminated against."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) Yeah, that's a big, big red
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flag, right? And this was, like, the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same month that the U.S., like, Donald
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Trump had, like, announced, like, an
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intention to, like, ban trans healthcare.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The notion that, like, discrimination
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against trans people is this, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hypothetical thing that might occur in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the future, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If ever there was a trans person who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,faced bigotry on the basis of their
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,identity, I would stand up for them. But
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that hasn't happened yet. So, I'm just
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-not, I'm not standing up\N-(Natalie) Yeah, right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No one's ever been discriminated against
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for being trans. But, like, if it does
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen, I'll march with you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, okay, first of all, by the way, these
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tweets got hundreds of thousands of likes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- and people were like, \N- Natalie: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Yes! You're a warrior!" But it's like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, a normal person who isn't super
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,online, and, I mean, you know, from
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the queer and pro-trans end, but also
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from, like, the super anti-trans end.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like if you aren't a part of either of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those groups, you're reading this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are like, "What the f*** is she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about? Like what is this 'sex
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is real' thing?" Like, what is she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a weird argument, right? Because
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it seems on the surface like it's a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,linguistic point that she's trying to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make, right? There's this idea, like she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,says, quote, "If we get rid of the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concept of sex that removes the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ability of many to discuss their lives."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, this is what I think the assumption
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is: it's, like, if we acknowledge that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans people are who they say they
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are, then that means that none of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the rest of us can talk about how gender
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has impacted our lives, right? In other
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,words, think of a trans, is a woman, then
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess, you know, "I, J.K,. Rowling, can
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never talk about the way that I have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been discriminated against for being
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a woman." I mean, it's a little bit of an
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oppression olympics almost kind of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- argument, where it's like \N- Matt: Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there can only be one oppressed group,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? And if we talk about how, you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, there's no way to include trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people as a valid concept without sort of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somehow, like, deleting or erasing the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entire concept of women. Which, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it doesn't make any sense, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, J.K. Rowling will later use as
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an example. Okay what does it mean to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"erase women"? I mean, well, okay, so
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she'll use the example of, like, okay,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some hospital somewhere, on a piece of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paperwork says, uses the term "pregnant
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person" instead of "pregnant woman".
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why? Because there is transgender men who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can and have gotten pregnant. And so,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying "pregnant people" is a more, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if you find that to be an awkward
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phrase, like, it's still a more inclusive
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phrase that is going to help trans men
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who need reproductive healthcare
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, you know, conventionally would be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"women's health", right? I just don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand why making it inclusive to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transgender men somehow, like, deletes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the concept of women from existence.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, (stammers) it just doesn't make
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any sense to me. I feel like it's, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a weird pretext for being prejudicial.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-It's just such a lie. I mean, you see\N-Natalie: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this a lot with Turph's trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exclusionary radical feminists. It's like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the arm of quote on quote, "feminism"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is basically just defined by
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transphobia. Especially towards trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,women.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I don't even know if I would say
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's especially towards trans women.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that there is especially
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,vitriolic towards trans women
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- and they kind of vilify.\N- Matt: Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Trans women are sort of cast as, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dangerous predators. But trans men, I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feel like, the way that a lot of, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including J.K. Rowling, like, talk about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans men as a quite reprehensible I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- think, too. Like, usually the idea \N- Matt: Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, like, trans men are like confused
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,girls who've been tricked by, like, the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical establishment, like, the evil
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cabal of endocrinologist who have, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somehow, like, hoodwinked vulnerable girls
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into thinking that they're men. Which, of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,course, is not how the healthcare system
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works at all. Like, you really have to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scream and cry to get hormones. Like, no
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one is persuading you to do this. In
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact, quite the opposite. Everyone is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,telling you not to. So, the idea that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans men or that any kind of assigned
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,female at birth trans person is this sort
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of confused, vulnerable baby child. Like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not vilification to the extent that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they've vilified trans women as dangerous
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predators, but it's in tantalizing in a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that I think can be just as harmful
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in its consequences, right? When someone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,says, "Oh, you can't make decisions about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your own body because you're too confused
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and childish." Like, you know, that has
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devastating consequences which we see.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Any feminist should be aware of how this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works cause this is what they say about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abortion; it's what they about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contraception; it's what they say about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,women's health in general. "Shut up,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little girl," right, "You can't make
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decisions about your body. We'll do it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for you." It's exactly the same thing J.K.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rowling is essentially saying to trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,men.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(inaudible) especially towards trans men
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do this like, "We're loosing our lesbians.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're all becoming trans men thing."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which that as a refrain, I just don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand at all because, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,statistically when you look at, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the number of gen Z people who are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming out as queer, under every single
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the letters, it's higher in all
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of them.\N-(Natalie) Right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like there are more out lesbians today
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than there have ever been.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(stammers) Yes, there's never been more
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-lesbians, like, yeah \N- Matt: (laughs) And to be clear
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love that (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah it's good, it's good actually, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, I mean, I feel like it comes from,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's like a very, like, selfish, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,childish perspective. It's almost like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"No don't transition, you're so sexy aha,"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- you know? Like, I feel like, thats kind\N- Matt: Yeah (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, like, (stammers) and some gay women
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do say this about trans men. Like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"No, all the butch women are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transitioning, like, I wanted to f***
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them before, no!" And it's like, okay,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, too bad, like (scoffs) other people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't have to live their lives in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accordance with what you find sexually
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attractive. Like, again, as a woman
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(stammers) you should know this, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- you should know that what you're \N- Matt: Yeah
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing, what you're speaking about someone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as if your sexual attraction to them
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entitles you to their living a certain
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way. You should know why that's bad and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why that feels violating and why that robs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone of autonomy, right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And with Turphs and this whole thing of,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, "they're erasing the linguistic
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concept of a woman." It's like (sighs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- what world do you have to live in\N- (Natalie) Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that to feel like the truth? And
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look, I'm not a woman. And so, sometimes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with these conversations I'm very careful
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, like, even J.K. Rowling, a woman
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I disagree with entirely on so many
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these issues, it's like, I don't wanna
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police her understanding of her own trauma
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- as it pretends to being a woman.\N- (Natalie) Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, I still, like, we all live in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same society, and it's like, I'm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just very hard pressed to think that the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,word "woman" is going anywhere.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie scoffs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like, I don't think that, because on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some, like, in some medical papers that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are being published, that they're using
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the terms "people who get pregnant,"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"people who get periods," I don't think
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that means that, like, they're gonna start
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling you in casual conversation
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"a person who menstruates."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No. And no one talks like that way.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've never heard of a trans person
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,casually refer to cis woman as
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"people who menstruate." Because the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entire point of that term is that it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't just refer to cis women.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are people who have a sort of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,visceral reaction to it, which I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guess I can kind of understand. Like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think if you were to make, like, an
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligible, like, understandable
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,argument out of what J.K. Rowling seems
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be saying in these tweets, I mean I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think you could put it like this,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"For most women, the way that they are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oppressed in society is in fact
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intertwined with biology," right? With
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,women's reproductive role, as most women
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are capable of getting pregnant. And
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that becomes a area where women's lives
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are policed, right? It's interesting how
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling never talks about this,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- right? Not a word, not a word \N- Matt: Mhmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about Roe v Wade being overturned
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States. For most women,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,biology and misogyny, they certainly are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- intertwined. And there's a case to be\N- Matt: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,made that anyone who's assigned
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,female at birth does sort of belong
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a oppressed class by virtue of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their reproductive capability. Especially,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, you know, the sensitivity around,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, you know, "same people who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,menstruate" or "people who give birth."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like if you hear those phrases in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isolation, they kind of, like, can be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abrasive sounding because there's,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, a lot of shame and stigma, there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have for thousands of years around
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,menstruation and, you know, women
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often are kind of reduced by patriarchy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, like, birthing people in a sense,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? So, I feel like that there's, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some grain of something I can sympathize
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with her in terms of having a visceral,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,negative reaction to these phrases.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I feel like anyone who takes a second
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cool down, understand the context
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the phrase, will see that's clearly
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not the intention. They know that it's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to have an emotional effect for a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- lot of women to see those phrases. \N- Matt: Mhmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, they kind of decontextualize it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and blast it onto Twitter with, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a kind of vague implication that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, this is what they are going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reduce you to," and, like, "they" is who?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"They" is quote on quote trans ideology.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is sort of vaguely implied to be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this, like, powerful cabal.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughs) Right, which is also incredible
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because in real life it's like people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a hundred followers on Twitter.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, right! It's like you're being yelled
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at by, like, random, like, furries.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling, she does fixate heavily on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her own perceived persecution by trans
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people on Twitter. J.K. Rowling often
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets into these, like, feuds, like very
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public feuds that she- actually I wanna
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,google how many followers she has on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Twitter. J.K. Rowling... Do you know
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the number by heart?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I think it used to be like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fourteen million.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh! It's fourteen million.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hate that I know this.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter) Me too.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't want these stocks in my head.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling, to her fourteen million
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,followers, she, like, regularly puts these
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,random a**, people on blast, and it's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, I don't know, I have, what? I have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,four hundred thousand Twitter followers,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is, by the way, too many for a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,twink. But, none the less, it's like, lots
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of horrible people say horrible things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to me on the internet. You have to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be aware of the power dynamic of, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you have fourteen million followers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like it was missing from J.K.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rowling's discussion of how she, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,victimized by social media, is any
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding of power, and I think
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a key thing that is going on with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling is that she doesn't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conceptualize herself as a powerful
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person. I mean, and this is common,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? Cause, you know, most people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of think of themselves as, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,heroic underdogs, I feel, because, I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know, you got bullied as a child,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you got, you know, (stutters) right,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, in J.K. Rowling's case, like, she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used to live in relative poverty. She was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a single mom, she fled a, you know, a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abusive relationship. And so, I still
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think in a way she kind of thinks of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,herself as this, like, small, like, scared
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person, like, on the run.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mmmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, she's had, like, twenty-five years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, like, catch up to the new reality,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I feel like internally she still
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hasn't, right? I think it's hard for a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of people to make this switch where
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you realize, "Oh, I am the big fish now,"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? Like, "I am the one who has power."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that, I mean a lot of what
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privilege is is a kind of blindness
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to your own power. She hasn't noticed that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's extremely powerful and influential.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it hasn't occurred to her that, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know, going after some random
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YouTuber with a hundred, you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hundred thousands of subscribers, is,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, weird behavior for a celebrity of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her size.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not even a YouTuber with a hundred
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thousand subscribers, random a** people.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was just scrolling through her Twitter
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other day getting ready for this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,episode, and, like, she was sending
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,multiple tweets, like, screenshotting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this man's tweets and then sending out
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her responses to her fourteen million
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,followers. This guy named Rajan, who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wrote, "I am a CIS male and an ally
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the LGBTQ community. All of my life
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have fought for diversity and equality.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I advised two Attorney General's on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,race and equality issues and prosecuted
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on behalf of victims of crime. I know
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I am and am proud of what I stand
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for." And she responded with, uh, with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her own tweet, which she was pretending
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to speak in his voice, in Rajan's voice.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She wrote, "I am a man who wants to see
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,girls and women stripped of their rights
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and protections for the benefit of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my fellow men." And it's like, okay,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obviously that's not what Rajan was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying. But then I was like, "Who the hell
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is Rajan?" He has four hundred and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fifty-three followers. The tweet which she
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sent out to her fourteen million
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,followers, Rajan's original tweet
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had twenty-five likes!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, it's, like, literally just some guy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she's just, (stutters) like, there's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no sense of the influence she wields.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, in a way, she does think that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's just someone's, like, Facebook
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aunt. She's behaving in a way that is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,indistinguishable from the way- she's not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,acting like a public figure.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just can't understand how J.K. Rowling
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has spent, and this is what she does
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everyday by the way, listener, feel
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free to go to her Twitter. She's beefing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with someone who lives in, like, f******
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Iowa. And it's like, I just can't (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conceptualize, especially if I had a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,billion dollars. I don't know. I would
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be on, like, a yacht probably. And not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arguing with f****** Rajan four hundred,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fifty-three followers. Rajan, if you're
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out there, shout out. You seem like a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,great guy.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, we love Rajan on this podcast.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just can't make sense of her spending,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I imagine her rocking back n' forth in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the corner of, like, her eleventh living
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,room in her sixth castle; just, like, on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Twitter sweating.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(scoffs) I think we like to imagine
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that when people get, you know, really
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rich and famous, then there's a sense of,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, peace or happiness or tranquility
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that accompanies that, but that does not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seem to be the case, right? I mean, I'm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to imagine being in that situation.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel that, like, once you achieved a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain level of, like, you know, success
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beyond most people's wildest dreams...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It must be hard to know what to do with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that feeling of discontentment that's,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- like, still inside of you. \N- (Matt) Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that sometimes people, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, wildly successful people, like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.K. Rowling or Elon Musk, they sort of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get addicted to Twitter as this, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- source of conflict (scoffs) almost. \N- (Matt) Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's almost like (stutters) once you don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to worry about money, once, you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're free of your, you know, your past
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abusive relationship, once you've, you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, accomplish all the things you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,previously wanted to accomplish, it's,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, it's almost like you need to- you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just can't be happy with that. You need
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, like, find a new, like, fight almost.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, people go looking on Twitter;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can always find a fight on Twitter.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there's something very unhealthy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the way a lot of people, uh, relate
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to using the internet as a source of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict, and then once your ego gets
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,invested, I think that's, you know, part
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what's going on with J.K. Rowling, of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,course, is that because she's come,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, she's, like, positioned herself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so firmly on the anti-trans side. She now
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feels like she has to defend it viciously.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because otherwise, that would mean
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,admitting that she was wrong and admitting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that she's caused a massive amount of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,damage.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes and you know what? It is really hard
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, like, profess your beliefs in front of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of people. Like I have basically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done that as part of my job of making,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, social and political content and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commentary online for the lat few years.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like one of the things that took me
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too long to come to grips with is that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, sometimes you need to know when
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're wrong. And, like, taking the L as
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- the kids say, and I've had to\N- (Natalie) Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take L's online and it's embarrassing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it makes you feel small. I mean,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Natalie, I know that's happened to you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or you've had to come to the mic and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be like, "Yeah I was wrong about this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing," even if it takes a while to do
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that. That is also one of the greatest,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, personal lessons that I've taken
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,away from, like, being online
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,politically; is that being wrong is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually, like, I mean it's so f******
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,corny, but it's like an opportunity.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's, like, genuinely, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,severely good for you to be able to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accept that. It's been helpful to me
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,overtime to learn, to get a lot of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criticism, and to kind of be at peace
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with it, and to not feel like I need to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constantly be, like, a vigilant defender
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of my own ego. People are going to say
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things about me, they're going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,misrepresent me, they're going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criticize me, and some of it will be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,true, and a lot of it will be false. And
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, you just kind of have to learn to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- find peace with that. Otherwise you'll\N- (Matt) Mmm
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go crazy. But, yeah, what we have on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our hands here with Ms. Rowling is a case
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of someone who is pathologically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incapable of ever letting anything go
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever, right? \N- Matt: (laughs) Ever.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, I don't think she's ever once
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,admitted to being wrong about a single
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, and that includes the Holocaust denial
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arc, which I'm teasing the listener with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause we're not quite there yet.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanna return to the role of language
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in all of this and, like, semantics,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? We're going to be talking about
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the transphobia serving as a gateway
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into further right wing, you know, broader
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right wing ideology. But then I also think
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that taking it back a step, I think that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some people's entry into transphobia are
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these, like, frankly, like, silly semantic
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- word arguments. \N- (Natalie) Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're erasing the word "women." And so,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as another example, what I think is a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,powerful example of that: Anna Kasparian.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Anna Kasparian, she's one of the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political commentators on the Young Turks,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is one of the bigger and of the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,earlier left wing political YouTube shows.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know she had her viral, um, "I don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,care what the Bible says! I don't, like...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(video) "I don't care if you're Christian.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, I will fight for you to have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your religious liberty and practice
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your Christianity. I believe in that. I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't believe in Christianity, which means
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you do not get to dictate the way I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,live my life based on your religion.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't care what the Bible says. You have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every right in the world. All those women
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who identify with your religion have every
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right in the world to not get an
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abortion, to not take birth control.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they do not have the right to dictate
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my life and what I decide to do with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my body. I don't care about your g{\b1}d{\b0}*
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,religion."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Matt) I think she's, like, had some
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really great things to say over the years.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And none of that, none of the education,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,none of anything stopped her from falling
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into transphobic semantic rabbit hole
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,last May; like all horrible things that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,took place on Twitter. So I'm going to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,send you the tweets.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay so this first tweet is, "I'm a woman.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please don't ever refer to me as a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person with a uterus, birthing person,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or person who menstruates. How do
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people not realize how degrading this is?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can support the transgender community
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without doing this s***."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you're just taking this tweet at face
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,value, I don't even disagree with it.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, like, yeah, right, don't, you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shouldn't refer to an individual person
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a "birthing person," that's weird. I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agree. I feel like where I disagree is in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the subtext, right? The first question
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have is, in what context did someone
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refer to Anna in this way? Did this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen? Did someone call her
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Natalie) "a person who menstruates"?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, in what context? Was the context
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a piece of medical paperwork? Should
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phrases such as "a person who menstruates"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,replace the phrase "women" in everyday
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,English? No, of course not. Who's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suggesting that? Is anyone suggesting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that? I've never once heard trans person
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suggest that. So, it's like, we're
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arguing against this position that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, who are we arguing against?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know. It feels like (stutters) for
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some reason there's this need to argue
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against this, like, strong man version of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a trans activist, who insist that we stop
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the word "women". I've never heard
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone claim that. I also think, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even the extent to which this is used
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in medical context is overstated. Like, I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know, I'm thinking of, like, recent
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,times I've interacted with the medical
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system. I feel like I'm often, you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you select your gender on medical
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paperwork, it's usually male, female,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or, like, other (scoffs) and it'll ask
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you to explain. So, I will usually, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,add, you know, as a context note that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am a transgender woman. So that, in so
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,far as that's medically relevant, it's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,noted. I have no given birth, nor have I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been to the hospital with someone giving
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,birth recently. So, I cannot say what the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experience is like. But I guess I'll be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,curious to know, like, how often, I don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, if someone is listening this, um,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, if you, like, had a baby at a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hospital recently, like, how frequently
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were phrases like "birthing person" used?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My guess is not very frequently.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So I'm not sure (stammers) It just \N- (Matt) Right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feels like a sort of imaginary argument
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're having.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Totally, totally.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(stammers) I'm, like, lacking context for,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, where is this occurring? I spend a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of time around women, actually. And
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like I don't see the word- I don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see these phrases being thrown around
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very often these days. And I'm in a very
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trans inclusive, you know, kind of social
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- environment. So, you'd think if \N- Matt: (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lots of people had replaced the word
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"women" with "person with a uterus," I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think I would have heard that but I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,haven't.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughs) Right? So, she's starting to get
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of dogged online and she responds
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with tweet number two. Please hold...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did you receive?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Umm, hold on. Not yet.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, wait. Did it not send to you?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I don't see it. \N- (Matt) Oh, weird.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay wait let me try again. Maybe I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just sent it to the wrong person (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then out of no where you receive it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(inaudible)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You might want to figure out who you
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- just send that to. It could be kind of\N- (Matt laughing)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,weird with no context.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughing continues)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay tweet two, "LOL. The meltdowns over
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wanting to be referred to as a woman
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than a "birthing person" is pretty
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wild. I'll never apologize for that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially as biological woman who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has had a f****** lifetime of being
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,told I'm less than. I'm a woman. No
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apologies," (sighs) So, again it's like, I
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know, a lot of this type of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transphobic stuff comes from a kind of,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, misdirected frustration with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,misogyny. Anna reacted with, "Oh, people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are sort of forcing me to be called
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the 'birthing person', and then that's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of somehow erasing the lifetime of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,misogyny that I've had to experience
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a woman." I mean, I think it's like a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of scapegoat in a way. I feel that,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, a lot of times, like, people who
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get (inaudible) into this gender critical
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking points, it's often a kind of,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, displaced rage and frustration at
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experiences of misogyny, often in, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leftist spaces, right? Cause that's a
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,real thing. Misogyny is pretty rampant on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the left as it is everywhere. And I think
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a lot of women find that hard to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complain about. And it's difficult in part
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because men usually are in power. I don't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, you kind of, as a woman, you kind
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of have to, like, pander to men to get
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through the day to some extent.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's like frightening to take a stand
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against men. But trans people this kind
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, like, hated minority that is sort of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,easy to, like, it's kind of easy to,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, dump all of your, like, frustrations
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and rage onto trans people because
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a social momentum behind that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that there sort of isn't against,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, I don't know, frustration with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,misogyny and leftist spaces, for example.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I honestly kinda feel bad for Anna reading
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these tweets because obviously there's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some massive life, as she says, a lifetime
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, like, of difficult experiences that's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behind this. And it's blowing up now, but
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's choosing as its target, this very
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,weird thing that seems to me, to be
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,slightly off topic.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So these tweets are in March. And then in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,July, she is still kind of stuck on
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this transgender issue. In a discussion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about various social justice movements
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and their methods for accomplishing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their goals, she tweets what I have
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,selected as to be tweet number three.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which I will send to you now.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Oh, this one (scoffs) Yeah this is... \N- (Matt laughs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, and see this is (stutters) this
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tweet- I know I'm talking about the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tweet before I've read it. But I do feel
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this tweet that I'm about to read,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really kind of does showcase the way
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that transphobia is kind of a red flag and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's often the prelude to a whole bunch
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of nonsense. Okay (breaths deeply)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anna Kasparian quote, "The Civil Rights
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Movement did not use the same strategies
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the trans movement. They didn't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,barricade speakers they disagreed with in
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a classroom for three hours. They
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,persuaded through non-violence and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,showing America their humanity."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is (exhales) this is basically the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entire thing that the podcast called,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling" was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, um. This was what the podcast with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Megan Phelps-Roper of Westboro Baptist
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Church fame, uh and J.K. Rowling. A lot
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the argument was, like, "Oh, what we
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really hate about the trans movement is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they use, like, illiberal methods. And
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's so unlike all past movements. Like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gay Rights wasn't like this, and Women's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rights wasn't like this, and the Civil
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rights Movement, they never did anything
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,violent and they were always polite and
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they never raised their voices and they
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never called people names." And it's just,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, "Well I'm sorry that is historically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not true."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's so jarring to see someone like
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Anna Kasparian, who knows all of that, \N- (Natalie) Knows, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though. She knows all of that. I mean, all
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these movements had (stammers)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You think about that one famous, uh,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clip of Angela Davis talking about, like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether or not she endorses violence.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And she's just like, "Well, whether or not
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I endorse it is besides the point.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Violence is the only thing I've ever known
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a black person in America. "
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have these people heard of Malcolm X?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have they heard (stammers and scoffs)
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stonewall! Like, come on!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do these people think the Civil
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rights Movement was? Like, I mean, it's
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,literally every one of these movements,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too. Like, I mean, again, people think of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Women's Suffrage (inaudible), you know,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you think of the women marching with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their banners and it's like, "Oh, they
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just had to show people their humanity by
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being peaceful," and it's like, churches
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were firebombed (scoffs) by suffrage
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,acts in the U.K. People were physically,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were murdered for Women's Suffrage.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is not to say that I am endorsing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these violent methods, but it's like,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm about to get so demonetized.