[Script Info] Title: [Events] Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.02,0:00:07.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Red: Hello everybody, and welcome to another very special Detail Diatribe. I don’t know why I said very special, Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.43,0:00:11.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is pretty much on brand for the other Detail Diatribes we’ve done so far. Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.06,0:00:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s not a special holiday event or whatever. But I’m excited about this. Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.78,0:00:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Blue: Medium-special at best, but still very exciting! \NR: Moderately special, you know, Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.74,0:00:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the grand calculus of the multiverse. \NB: Somewhere, Red and Blue are sitting down Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.39,0:00:34.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to record a Detail Diatribe that is the most special Detail Diatribe ever. But we’re not in that multiverse. Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.49,0:00:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: No, we’re in this timeline instead. In case you didn’t pick up what we’re putting down, Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.32,0:00:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the subject of today’s Detail Diatribe is something that I have been mulling over for a while now, and I like to call it Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.12,0:00:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“the multiverse problem”. And to explain what exactly the multiverse problem is, I’ve prepared a handy-dandy, Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.23,0:00:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,super efficient 40 slide slideshow-\NB: Yes, Yes! Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.79,0:01:06.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: -to discuss what exactly is going on. So, to start we must define the parameters Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.50,0:01:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we’re going to be operating on. What is a multiverse? Now obviously, in this specific context Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.46,0:01:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are discussing fictional multiverses, not Real Multiverse Theory, none of that stuff. Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.04,0:01:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not particularly interesting to me. But in fiction the concept of a multiverse is essentially a setting Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.06,0:01:26.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that contains multiple universes or timelines, and the setting that the protagonists - the main characters - Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.67,0:01:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are from is typically just one universe out of many. A story will often introduce the concept Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.75,0:01:36.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a multiverse in the context of a plotline that threatens the integrity of this home universe, Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.74,0:01:42.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a bad future timeline or a threat that’s moving across dimensions or an evil alternate version Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.28,0:01:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of themselves intruding, stuff like that. It’s a very, very broad concept that covers a lot of ground. Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.83,0:01:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of that ground is just fine, some of that ground is very, very bad. So let’s talk about it! Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.16,0:02:00.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: This is exciting, because I have passing familiarity with some multiverse stories in kids’ media, Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.01,0:02:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like evil Danny Phantom and stuff like that.\NR: Oh yeah, yeah. That’s on my list. Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.72,0:02:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: Aside from a couple, you know, instances of Marvel coming into the phase four-game Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.33,0:02:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with multiversal nonsense, I am largely an outsider on this topic and I have some thoughts, but only some, Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.73,0:02:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't know how strong they are. So we'll see how that develops as we go through this slideshow. Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.72,0:02:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: Yeah, I'm excited for your input because there are a few examples in here that I know you've got thoughts on. Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.06,0:02:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But to start off, a little bit more categorization. There are, broadly speaking, two different kinds of multiverses. Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.81,0:02:36.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many worlds-multiverses and there are branching timeline-multiverses. Many worlds-multiverses, Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.02,0:02:41.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's how you cover things like magical other world-stories, Narnia, Oz, you know, stuff like that. Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.27,0:02:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The characters travel from their world to another world. You know, it's essentially just a multiversal flavor on, like, Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.06,0:02:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the old sword and planet fantasy where people would be- or like Star Trek, where you've got a bunch Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.47,0:02:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of different inhabited planets and they're all very different but the people from them can come and hang out. Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.87,0:03:01.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: Yeah. I believe Shakespeare's word for that was isekai. \NR: Yes, the Bard himself, as we all know. Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.28,0:03:09.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that type of multiverse, that doesn't tend to be where the problems lie. The branching timeline-multiverse Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.92,0:03:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a different format for these stories, where instead there is this sort of concept that these are alternate versions Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.86,0:03:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our universe, so there might be alternate versions of familiar characters. It's like, if you go from Earth to Oz, Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.96,0:03:27.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're not gonna find an Oz-version of yourself. But, like, my example on this slide is Into the Spider-Verse, Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.16,0:03:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where all of those universes are extremely different, but they are on some level all different versions Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.36,0:03:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the same universe. There are often going to be stories that have this sort of vague ambiguity between like, Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.48,0:03:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this a branching timeline, alternate, “somebody made a different choice and now you live in Toon Town”, Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.84,0:03:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or are these worlds with different fundamental physical laws, but also there are different versions Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.58,0:03:49.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the same guy across all these universes for some reason? Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.03,0:03:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: Just imagining, like, Edison didn't get the patent for the motion picture and then therefore 150 years later Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.13,0:03:58.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we live in Toon Town. \NR: Yeah, yeah. Obviously that's the only logical explanation Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.61,0:04:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for how Spider-Pig happened. \NB: Yeah. Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.53,0:04:04.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: So these universes will either strongly or superficially resemble each other. You know, Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.01,0:04:08.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is where you start getting things like the time plot where it's like, “Ohh, I'm you from an alternate universe Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.95,0:04:12.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or from an alternate future or whatever”. Those ones tend to be a little bit more fast and loose. Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.63,0:04:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the branching timeline-multiverse is where the problems begin. Now, multiverses disrupt the story Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.66,0:04:24.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're introduced into to varying degrees, because of course, the basic premise of a multiverse of Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.21,0:04:28.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Hey, there's multiple universes, yours is just one of them” is usually accompanied by the concept Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.09,0:04:33.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“And your universe is under threat”, and that is the disruption. So essentially the introduction Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.22,0:04:38.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the multiverse can either disrupt the story a little bit, or it can disrupt the story a whole bunch. Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.70,0:04:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Low disruption stories are like the standard multiverse travel isekai-things. The character travels from one world Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.23,0:04:49.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to another, but the consequences of their actions tend to be limited to whatever world they're in at the time. Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.81,0:04:56.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: It’s more of a personal journey thing, and it affects how the character comes back rather than anything tangible, Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.48,0:04:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world level-stuff. \NR: it serves, in the hero’s journey cycle Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.24,0:05:05.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as "this is what happens after you cross the threshold", and then when you come back the world is unchanged Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.15,0:05:11.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behind you. There might be sort of a large-scale general existential “Ohh, the multiverse is under threat! Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.31,0:05:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we fix things in this world though, that won't be a problem. We'll be fine actually”. Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.73,0:05:16.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, Spider-Verse style. Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.01,0:05:20.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This tends to be pretty much fine. This doesn't really disrupt the audience's ability to get invested. Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.34,0:05:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just like, “Oh, there's a looming threat and we have some fun new characters to play with for this arc”. Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.20,0:05:29.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Medium disruption is when you have multiverse stories where alternate timelines and futures are visited, Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.85,0:05:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they're usually treated as sort of compartmentalized object lessons, like, you go to the bad future Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.40,0:05:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where someone died or someone turned evil and the world is being dominated by an evil emperor Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.06,0:05:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who might be your best friend. And that's bad, but the general goal for the heroes is “get back to the past Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.70,0:05:50.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and prevent that from happening”. So the idea is, like, this isn't going to disrupt the main timeline, Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.75,0:05:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not gonna go back farther and mess up their own history. They're just gonna go back to their original timeline, Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.06,0:06:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beat the bad guy, and then everything will be sunshine and roses from then on. So a lot of time plots Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.41,0:06:05.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tend to follow this format. Evil characters from the future usually show up in this version. Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.41,0:06:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There might be a bit of a scare where it's like “Oh no, they’re winning, the dark future is assured!” Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.38,0:06:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then they'll lose in the end. It'll be great. Your Danny Fantom example was very serendipitous Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.22,0:06:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that's exactly what this is. \NB: One brain cell. Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.84,0:06:20.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: One brain cell. Then you start getting into high disruption multiverse stories, Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.93,0:06:24.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is where there are shenanigans that are typically but not always of the time variety Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.96,0:06:31.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that alter the hero’s home timeline dramatically. Usually these alterations are fixed, but often Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.04,0:06:37.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are little bits leftover that are sort of still changed. So if a bad guy goes back in time and takes over the world Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.49,0:06:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the mid-1900s - just to pull an example out of absolutely nowhere - and then in the present the heroes Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.10,0:06:47.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are dealing with some weird changed alternate reality where everything sucks and then they have to go back Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.52,0:06:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fix that, that's technically high disruption, but it does usually get mostly repaired, Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.00,0:06:57.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,although sometimes characters, relationships will be slightly changed. Somebody might have died in the past Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.28,0:07:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or something like that can happen. This is a little bit of a danger zone because, well, we'll get to it. But basically, Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.96,0:07:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you introduce anything that retcons things that the characters and the audience have already Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.73,0:07:15.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gotten invested in, you're flirting with danger. And that's when we reach the maximum level of disruption, Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.81,0:07:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is where characters' multiversal travel or alterations to the timeline are permanent. Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.44,0:07:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whatever they do irrevocably changes their universe or their timeline. Maybe the characters leave their universe Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.02,0:07:31.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of origin and they never return, or that universe is permanently changed. There's basically no concept Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.46,0:07:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a true timeline in this setting. Continuity is completely flexible by multiverse fuckery. There are many examples Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.96,0:07:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this, we will discuss all of the ones I have listed later in the slide show. But basically this is where I believe Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.92,0:07:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the multiverse problem begins to rear its ugly head, and it is why, when you have an established story Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.54,0:07:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's one main universe, one timeline that we've been following, and then the writer introduces Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.44,0:08:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a multiverse into the mix, that can be a harbinger of doom. Now, the thing is, when a writer wants to shake up Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.32,0:08:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the status quo in a big way, a multiverse can be a fun way to do it. You know, you bring in new characters, Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.83,0:08:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you bring in a threat, not just to the world, but to the very fabric of reality, it's a reasonable escalation of stakes Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.50,0:08:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the standard “save the world”-plot line. But there are other reasons a writer might want to introduce Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.81,0:08:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a multiverse. And oftentimes when the concept is introduced, it signals that the main universe Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.31,0:08:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've been following is about to get rewritten, overwritten, or otherwise fundamentally changed. Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.66,0:08:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because there is no easier way to do that, narratively speaking, than introducing “There are many worlds, Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.08,0:08:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many universes, many timelines. Things can happen that change everything fundamentally from the ground up, Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.44,0:08:45.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's totally fine!” This basically means that the cannon that we, the audience, have gotten invested in Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.09,0:08:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can very suddenly and thoroughly be changed with very little justification other than “There's a multiverse now! Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.80,0:08:54.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All kinds of crazy stuff can happen in the multiverse!” And a lot of writers like doing this Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.67,0:08:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they don't want to “yes, and” their own continuity anymore and they want to start retconning things Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.96,0:09:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that'll make things easier for them. \NB: There is a certain point of writing long form media Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.78,0:09:12.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you find that you've either written yourself into a corner or you choose to write that that wasn't actually Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.71,0:09:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a corner, that was an open doorway to a whole bunch of other stuff. And I think there's a reason that this problem Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.64,0:09:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets highlighted in the realm of comic books and other hyper-serialized, decades long - Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.00,0:09:32.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,approaching century long - continuities that keep building and building and building, and eventually Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.14,0:09:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some author somewhere is like “Ah shit, wait a second”. \NR: No, yeah, exactly. Essentially, Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.42,0:09:43.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you really want to basically excise a part of the cannon that you don't wanna deal with anymore, Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.22,0:09:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially if you are working on a long form project that a ton of other people have been building up - Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.38,0:09:53.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like for example comic books - there's very easy ways to internally justify doing that. The problem is Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.13,0:09:59.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you use a multiverse for this, it creates a canonical in-universe mechanism to retcon the plot. Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.79,0:10:06.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once that concept is introduced into the setting, it can't be unintroduced. You know, you can't put that toothpaste Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.74,0:10:13.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back in the tube. The writer and every writer that comes after them now has permanent access to a reset button. Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.14,0:10:17.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the audience therefore knows that nothing in cannon is set in stone anymore. Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.67,0:10:24.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B: Yeah. Once you introduce what's essentially Checkov’s gatling gun of retcons, there's no way to undo that. Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.22,0:10:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R: Yeah. So basically, when you introduce a multiverse specifically for the purpose of completely changing Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.75,0:10:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the main timeline without having to actually go back and do the heavy lifting of telling that story, you're just like, Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.53,0:10:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Oh, things are changed. Now, that thing that happened in the 70s? It’s different! We don't need to worry Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.48,0:10:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about it anymore!” Now the audience basically knows that you can just reach back in the plot, in the timeline, Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.54,0:10:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into wherever, and say “This is different now because of multiverse stuff”. And in this context, basically, Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.76,0:10:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“multiverse” is being used as, like, “Because I said so”. But once the multiverse is introduced, Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.79,0:10:59.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it can be very easily used this way. And the biggest problem is one that I think a lot of writers Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.71,0:11:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't actually think about. Because when you are the writer, your concept of the world and the story Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.45,0:11:09.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're telling is already extremely flexible, because you are constantly considering possibilities and angles Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.95,0:11:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and things that you might introduce or that you might not do, or you aim to do one thing, but then Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.87,0:11:19.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way it comes out on the paper, it's different. That's just a fact of how writing works. But for the audience, Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.15,0:11:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the plot is rigid, unchanging. It is set down, and then those are the axioms that they operate in Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.05,0:11:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they are fans of this work. So I think for a writer, it can be easier mentally to be like “It's actually fine Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.38,0:11:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I go back and tweak this thing because I was already thinking of doing it that way anyway, so it wouldn't be Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.20,0:11:39.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that different”. But for an audience, that's like shaking the very foundations of this world you've created. Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.15,0:11:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where a writer's perspective on their world is by definition creatively fluid, the audience's perspective tends Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.88,0:11:51.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be a little bit more like this is a foundational structure. It's solid. And when the audience sees the writer Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.50,0:11:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,essentially reach back and be like “Just kidding, this is different now!”, it shakes their investment. Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.10,0:11:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A writer cannot predict what specific parts of the story the audience will be very strongly invested in. Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.73,0:12:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a typical story without multiverse fuckery, there are tons of things an audience can get invested in. Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.30,0:12:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can like the heroes, the villains, the supporting characters, the romantic subplots Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.80,0:12:12.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the supporting characters, just the background characters sometimes. They might really like the setting, Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.68,0:12:17.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the worldbuilding, the magic system, the weird little quirks of “Oh, I introduced this one fun character Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.54,0:12:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who hints at a much broader universe behind them. That's pretty cool”. They might like that guy. Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.03,0:12:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you're the writer, you can't predict what parts of the story are going to completely resonate with your audience. Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.59,0:12:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when you go back and you change things, it's entirely possible that you're going to rip the tablecloth out Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.11,0:12:35.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from under a part of the story that your audience really, really liked.