1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:04,989 For a long time, it was believed that the human brain was fixed or hardwired 2 00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:09,130 and most forms of brain damage were therefore permanent and irreversible. 3 00:00:09,409 --> 00:00:13,380 However, scientists have since come to realize that far from being fixed, 4 00:00:13,510 --> 00:00:18,479 the brain has remarkable powers to regenerate itself even in old age. 5 00:00:18,829 --> 00:00:21,649 Norman Doidge is a psychiatrist and medical researcher. 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,270 In his new book, he explores the impact of this revolutionary discovery on all of us. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,149 It's called "The Brain That Changes Itself." 8 00:00:30,159 --> 00:00:33,979 Stories of personal triumph from the frontiers of brain science. 9 00:00:34,990 --> 00:00:38,319 For years, we've been told that the human brain is like a machine, 10 00:00:38,330 --> 00:00:40,220 a computer that there are different parts 11 00:00:40,229 --> 00:00:42,180 that they're responsible for different functions. 12 00:00:42,189 --> 00:00:47,759 And if those parts break or wear down or damaged, we lose that function. 13 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:51,299 Now, in your new book, you throw this all on its head and you say that in fact, 14 00:00:51,310 --> 00:00:53,029 the brain is plastic, 15 00:00:53,169 --> 00:00:54,979 explain what that means. 16 00:00:54,990 --> 00:00:58,500 Well, plastic means plastic in the sense of Plasticine, 17 00:00:58,509 --> 00:01:00,889 modifiable, adaptable. 18 00:01:01,270 --> 00:01:02,909 The plastic brain is a brain that can 19 00:01:02,919 --> 00:01:05,410 change its structure and its function depending on 20 00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:06,250 both... 21 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:08,419 Without drugs or invasive... 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,300 Without drugs. Just depending on what you do with your brain. 23 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,790 The task at hand that you are working on, 24 00:01:15,089 --> 00:01:18,709 what you're perceiving can cause you to change the structure of your brain 25 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:21,750 on many levels 26 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:23,699 and this is the most fantastic part, 27 00:01:23,709 --> 00:01:27,290 what you think and imagine actually can change the structure of your brain 28 00:01:28,209 --> 00:01:28,639 down 29 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:32,610 to the very connections between the brain cells, down into the genes 30 00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:33,589 even for instance. 31 00:01:34,809 --> 00:01:36,150 One of the most, 32 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:37,330 you know, 33 00:01:37,339 --> 00:01:39,970 staggeringly interesting discoveries of the late 34 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:42,569 20th century was the discovery that learning 35 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,400 changes the number of connections between the neurons, 36 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:49,830 the nerve cells in a nervous system. 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,449 You can go, for instance, from having perhaps 1300 38 00:01:53,589 --> 00:01:55,069 connections between 39 00:01:55,199 --> 00:01:58,010 nerve cell A and nerve cell B to 2700 40 00:01:58,279 --> 00:02:02,839 with several hours of training. By virtue of more brain activity occurring, 41 00:02:03,110 --> 00:02:05,540 By virtue of learning and brain activity. So, 42 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,130 what happens is thoughts 43 00:02:09,309 --> 00:02:11,369 or activities that you do with your brain 44 00:02:11,529 --> 00:02:15,440 actually turn certain genes on and others off inside the nerve 45 00:02:15,449 --> 00:02:18,820 cells, which then make proteins which then change the structure. 46 00:02:18,830 --> 00:02:19,080 Now, 47 00:02:19,089 --> 00:02:22,759 why is this discovery considered so revolutionary and more particularly what 48 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:26,979 are the implications of this discovery for people with brain dysfunction? 49 00:02:27,419 --> 00:02:31,360 A stroke for example. When you had a stroke, the general assumption was 50 00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:37,820 your brain got swollen, the chemicals were kind of deranged and after a few weeks, 51 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:40,440 whatever you were left with was what you would have 52 00:02:40,449 --> 00:02:41,740 to live with for the rest of your life. 53 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:43,339 You basically lost that brain 54 00:02:43,479 --> 00:02:47,339 function that was damaged. The cells died, they couldn't be replaced, 55 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:49,919 the healthy ones around it couldn't reorganize. 56 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:51,779 And so, 57 00:02:52,509 --> 00:02:54,210 we were kind of waiting for the swelling to 58 00:02:54,220 --> 00:02:56,460 go away and rehab was just sort of focused on 59 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,850 getting you over that period. Now, we know that rehab can actually 60 00:03:00,190 --> 00:03:05,250 reorganize the brain if it's done properly and bring many new functions back. 61 00:03:05,330 --> 00:03:07,429 But if I could just say it, it also meant 62 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:08,210 that 63 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:13,169 as you started to get older and your brain started to decline. 64 00:03:13,630 --> 00:03:15,529 It was like a machine that was wearing out 65 00:03:15,770 --> 00:03:19,050 and the attempt to exercise your brain in the second half 66 00:03:19,059 --> 00:03:22,369 of life was really kind of unwarranted or waste of time. 67 00:03:23,029 --> 00:03:24,289 And so, we just 68 00:03:24,509 --> 00:03:28,479 accepted a view of human development in which 69 00:03:28,679 --> 00:03:33,110 the second half of life is a period of necessary mental decline. 70 00:03:33,309 --> 00:03:36,580 And then, of course, the whole view of human nature that we have, you know, 71 00:03:36,589 --> 00:03:39,210 since the rise of modern science, most 72 00:03:39,429 --> 00:03:44,169 educated people see human nature in some way is emerging from the human brain. 73 00:03:44,179 --> 00:03:46,419 And if the human brain was fixed, immutable 74 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,100 and a rigid structure, 75 00:03:48,429 --> 00:03:51,850 it made a lot of sense to think of human nature as fundamentally fixed. 76 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:52,710 And so, 77 00:03:53,149 --> 00:03:57,339 we have to re-examine all that and I begin to do that in this book. 78 00:03:57,350 --> 00:04:00,369 Well, you do it by way of story and that there's some remarkable, 79 00:04:00,529 --> 00:04:03,289 almost logic defying, remarkable, 80 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:05,639 given what our traditional notion of what the brain is, 81 00:04:05,649 --> 00:04:07,649 probably the most remarkable. 82 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:12,490 And it is the story of a woman who was born with half a brain. Tell me about Michelle. 83 00:04:12,740 --> 00:04:15,369 I went to visit Michelle because I thought that 84 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:20,480 I knew that she was born with one hemisphere alone, 85 00:04:20,488 --> 00:04:21,350 just half a brain. 86 00:04:21,358 --> 00:04:21,608 And, 87 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,119 I thought that whatever changes that she was able 88 00:04:24,130 --> 00:04:26,549 to undergo would really test this notion of 89 00:04:26,649 --> 00:04:29,399 plasticity, certainly, at least in early life. 90 00:04:29,779 --> 00:04:30,869 And 91 00:04:31,450 --> 00:04:36,269 basically, when she was in the womb, some catastrophic event occurred, so 92 00:04:36,489 --> 00:04:38,609 her left hemisphere never developed. 93 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:39,850 And 94 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,390 based on what, you know, the usual view of 95 00:04:43,549 --> 00:04:44,010 that 96 00:04:44,019 --> 00:04:47,000 the brain basically has certain areas which in the left 97 00:04:47,010 --> 00:04:49,959 hemisphere which are responsible for speech and other functions, 98 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,529 someone with that level of damage you would imagine 99 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,779 would be unable to speak, unable to think, they might be alive, but on a respirator. 100 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:04,179 And it turns out that that's not the case with Michelle. 101 00:05:04,989 --> 00:05:06,290 In fact, 102 00:05:06,670 --> 00:05:07,959 if you met Michelle, 103 00:05:07,970 --> 00:05:13,399 you would detect some subtle things like one of her arms is a little twisted, 104 00:05:13,410 --> 00:05:14,059 et cetera 105 00:05:14,299 --> 00:05:14,820 and 106 00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:18,970 her speech when she's upset, it's a little repetitive, 107 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,670 but you would never dream. 108 00:05:20,679 --> 00:05:24,850 And nor did the people who examined her for a number of years dream 109 00:05:25,109 --> 00:05:26,989 that she had half a brain. Well, explain to this 110 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,690 now, if we had thought that 111 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:31,619 this part of the brain is responsible for speech 112 00:05:31,630 --> 00:05:33,130 and I don't have this part of the brain, 113 00:05:33,290 --> 00:05:34,570 How is Michelle speaking? 114 00:05:34,730 --> 00:05:37,369 We know that there's a lot of plasticity early in life. 115 00:05:37,380 --> 00:05:40,519 But we also know and I make this very clear in the book, 116 00:05:40,529 --> 00:05:42,489 there's plasticity from cradle to grave. 117 00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:46,269 But you know, there are waves of increased plasticity 118 00:05:46,570 --> 00:05:49,429 and it turns out that what the brain does is 119 00:05:49,769 --> 00:05:53,429 it learns how to do what it's got to do at the time. So, 120 00:05:53,929 --> 00:05:55,589 parts of the brain that might have been 121 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,519 devoted to other things will learn how to move. 122 00:05:57,529 --> 00:06:00,779 If it has to see to survive, they'll be devoted to vision. 123 00:06:01,049 --> 00:06:01,700 And so 124 00:06:01,899 --> 00:06:02,299 all 125 00:06:03,149 --> 00:06:06,119 these things can actually be organized and move around, 126 00:06:06,850 --> 00:06:10,660 these higher mental functions. To give our viewers even more 127 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:12,420 kind of appreciation of the extent to which 128 00:06:12,429 --> 00:06:13,549 that's possible. 129 00:06:13,730 --> 00:06:17,399 Retell the story that's in the book that 130 00:06:17,410 --> 00:06:19,640 you dub the woman who is perpetually falling. 131 00:06:20,769 --> 00:06:21,869 Cheryl Schiltz 132 00:06:22,429 --> 00:06:23,390 was a woman. 133 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:25,160 She had a hysterectomy and she was given 134 00:06:25,170 --> 00:06:28,019 a medication because she developed an infection called gentamicin 135 00:06:29,119 --> 00:06:29,730 and 136 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,619 it poisoned the vestibular apparatus, which is the balance apparatus in her brain. 137 00:06:34,929 --> 00:06:36,480 And if you lose your sense of balance, 138 00:06:36,709 --> 00:06:40,000 you will feel like you're perpetually falling. When I was with Cheryl at one point, 139 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,459 I asked her, "What's it like when you've finally fallen to the floor? 140 00:06:43,769 --> 00:06:45,339 What do you feel at that point?" 141 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:46,299 And then she says, 142 00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:50,160 "Sometimes, I just feel the floor opens up and I fall into a perpetual abyss." 143 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:52,899 So that was her life and she ended up on disability. 144 00:06:53,660 --> 00:06:54,880 And one of the great 145 00:06:55,250 --> 00:06:55,799 people 146 00:06:55,929 --> 00:06:58,160 who were at the cutting edge, 147 00:06:58,170 --> 00:07:01,079 I call these people "neuroplastician" to coin a phrase, 148 00:07:01,250 --> 00:07:01,769 Paul 149 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:02,480 Bach-y-Rita 150 00:07:03,410 --> 00:07:05,230 invented a mechanism 151 00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:07,980 and I was there when she was using the mechanism for one 152 00:07:07,989 --> 00:07:11,829 of the first times that basically was attached to an accelerometer. 153 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:13,630 An accelerometer is like a gyroscope. 154 00:07:14,119 --> 00:07:14,549 And 155 00:07:15,290 --> 00:07:16,470 she would... 156 00:07:16,619 --> 00:07:20,269 The accelerometer would be in a hat on her head. Like a construction hat. 157 00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:21,700 Like a construction hat. 158 00:07:21,950 --> 00:07:26,470 And it would give signals that went into her tongue of all places 159 00:07:27,350 --> 00:07:29,709 telling her where she was in space. I tried it on. 160 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,709 So when you lean forward and you feel like champagne bubbles, 161 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,940 they're really little electric shocks, tell you you're forward, you lean back, 162 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:36,739 it goes back 163 00:07:37,279 --> 00:07:38,890 and she would put this hat on. 164 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:40,040 And 165 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:41,609 immediately 166 00:07:42,309 --> 00:07:47,209 she would... Normally, she'd be holding herself like up on a table lest she fall 167 00:07:47,670 --> 00:07:49,850 and immediately her whole body relaxed. 168 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,470 And this seemed like a miracle. Why? Because 169 00:07:54,220 --> 00:07:55,179 the sensory 170 00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:57,299 apparatus, the 171 00:07:57,309 --> 00:07:59,480 sense of touch on the tongue goes to a 172 00:07:59,489 --> 00:08:01,760 different part of the brain and the balance apparatus. 173 00:08:01,769 --> 00:08:01,790 So 174 00:08:02,070 --> 00:08:04,980 somehow or rather these signals coming in 175 00:08:05,619 --> 00:08:11,079 were making new pathways or strengthening very dormant pathways between 176 00:08:11,470 --> 00:08:14,239 her sense of touch and her sense of balance, 177 00:08:14,510 --> 00:08:18,079 so that was the first miracle I saw that happening and she had tried it on. 178 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:18,839 But 179 00:08:19,950 --> 00:08:22,440 then there was a second miracle which 180 00:08:22,450 --> 00:08:25,010 is as she started to use the machine more, 181 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,059 she found she had a residual period 182 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,179 where 183 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:31,350 she would take the hat off. 184 00:08:32,409 --> 00:08:34,849 And at first, the residual period lasted 185 00:08:34,979 --> 00:08:37,429 30 seconds. Residual period being that she still had balance. (MULTIPLE VOICES). 186 00:08:38,090 --> 00:08:38,409 Exactly. 187 00:08:39,070 --> 00:08:39,210 That's 188 00:08:39,429 --> 00:08:39,489 right. 189 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:42,750 It lasted for, you know, a few seconds and then 190 00:08:42,890 --> 00:08:44,309 it lasted longer and longer. 191 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,390 And as she started to use the hat and take it home and use it, 192 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:50,229 she would be going for days. And 193 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,909 that was a true miracle because what was happening was 194 00:08:54,059 --> 00:08:54,869 a miracle. I mean, 195 00:08:55,010 --> 00:08:55,890 it's only a miracle 196 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:59,750 if you think that the brain is fixed, it's actually not a miracle. 197 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:00,489 because 198 00:09:00,909 --> 00:09:03,239 she now no longer considers herself a 199 00:09:03,250 --> 00:09:05,619 wobbler. Because the brain reordered itself and put 200 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:07,669 the balance in a different part of the brain that wasn't then. 201 00:09:07,869 --> 00:09:11,510 Yeah. And, it developed new paths. Now, is this sensory substitution? 202 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:12,020 I mean, this is again, 203 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:16,250 another fascinating notion he introduces. This is what 204 00:09:16,729 --> 00:09:17,219 Paul 205 00:09:17,419 --> 00:09:19,450 Bach-y-Rita called sensory substitution. He did 206 00:09:20,099 --> 00:09:20,530 this 207 00:09:20,929 --> 00:09:24,940 as well for people who had been congenitally blind, 208 00:09:24,950 --> 00:09:26,049 they've never seen anything. 209 00:09:26,590 --> 00:09:26,989 And, 210 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,729 he rigged up a camera to a computer and then attached it originally just to the back 211 00:09:32,099 --> 00:09:34,330 and there were vibrating pixels that were on the back. 212 00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:36,250 And then he put it in to the tongue 213 00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:39,849 and he found that he could train a human tongue 214 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,780 to function like a retina. 215 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:44,940 And they would be able to see Twiggy. 216 00:09:45,340 --> 00:09:47,400 They would say, "Well, that's a picture of Twiggy." 217 00:09:47,409 --> 00:09:52,039 That's a picture of a vase...you've just moved a vase in front of a telephone, 218 00:09:52,049 --> 00:09:53,659 they could read certain things. 219 00:09:54,270 --> 00:09:58,200 If you threw a ball at them, they would duck, they could see perspective. 220 00:09:58,210 --> 00:09:59,650 I mean, so this is remarkable. 221 00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:00,330 They could see through the tongue. 222 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:04,010 What was happening is the tongue is like a two-dimensional surface 223 00:10:04,179 --> 00:10:06,049 just as the retina, 224 00:10:06,190 --> 00:10:07,270 the retina is. 225 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:08,340 And yeah, 226 00:10:08,539 --> 00:10:09,909 basically... 227 00:10:10,250 --> 00:10:10,859 The images would be... 228 00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:12,200 Images would be on the tongue. 229 00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:16,130 And then, we've recently learned, actually, this was some work also done 230 00:10:16,140 --> 00:10:16,900 in Canada, 231 00:10:17,049 --> 00:10:18,609 Bach-y-Rita was from the states 232 00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:19,450 that 233 00:10:20,229 --> 00:10:24,690 the input coming into the tongue was processed in the back of the brain, 234 00:10:24,739 --> 00:10:27,510 which we tend to call the visual cortex. 235 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,500 So it was all being rerouted 236 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,289 and 237 00:10:30,770 --> 00:10:31,349 Paul 238 00:10:31,460 --> 00:10:34,460 Bach-y-Rita has found different ways to do sensory substitution, which is 239 00:10:34,719 --> 00:10:38,710 lay the groundwork for the notion of a retinal implant, but, 240 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,229 you know, helping other people who have 241 00:10:41,239 --> 00:10:43,109 literally lost the ability to sense certain things. 242 00:10:43,119 --> 00:10:46,669 We touched on the whole issue of stroke victims. 243 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,880 And that you can tell a great story here about a surgeon in 244 00:10:50,289 --> 00:10:54,099 his mid 50s had a terrible debilitating stroke. 245 00:10:54,530 --> 00:10:56,950 Tell me how he came back. Michael Bernstein, 246 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,309 yeah, out, he was playing tennis. He was a tennis... 247 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,219 He spent the morning doing surgery on the eyes, 248 00:11:03,229 --> 00:11:07,580 so he needs a lot of fine motor skills. It's microscopic surgery. 249 00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:09,989 It's in a small confined space. 250 00:11:10,330 --> 00:11:11,309 Then, he was playing tennis, 251 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,049 then he developed a stroke and he couldn't move one side of his body. 252 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,510 He went for conventional rehabilitation, 253 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:18,820 they gave him whatever it was the 4 to 6 weeks. 254 00:11:20,929 --> 00:11:24,419 And basically, they said you're on your own and he had very, 255 00:11:24,429 --> 00:11:28,580 very little control of his arm at that point and very little control of his leg, 256 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:29,700 and then he tried a new 257 00:11:30,109 --> 00:11:31,270 form of treatment. He 258 00:11:31,630 --> 00:11:33,030 happened to be from Birmingham, 259 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:36,770 Alabama where a man named Edward Taub had 260 00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:39,619 developed this new treatment called constraint-induced therapy. 261 00:11:40,309 --> 00:11:40,799 And 262 00:11:41,489 --> 00:11:45,299 one of the things that neuroplasticians have shown in hundreds of experiments 263 00:11:45,309 --> 00:11:47,349 now is that it's use it or lose it brain. 264 00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:50,909 If you don't use something, 265 00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:54,989 it's that cortical real estate is taken over by something else. 266 00:11:55,469 --> 00:11:55,989 Now, 267 00:11:56,359 --> 00:11:58,830 what happens when a very common form 268 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,719 of stroke is you have a stroke in the left 269 00:12:01,070 --> 00:12:03,150 hemisphere and you can't move your 270 00:12:03,349 --> 00:12:04,630 right hand. You're paralyzed. 271 00:12:05,409 --> 00:12:07,109 You can't move it well, et cetera. 272 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:09,590 And so people try to use their arms, 273 00:12:09,989 --> 00:12:10,909 it doesn't work 274 00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:12,119 and 275 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,719 so they stopped using them. 276 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:14,359 Now, 277 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,789 what Taub did ingeniously was, 278 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:19,609 he got people to put their good hands in slings. 279 00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:21,760 Constrain them. He constrained them 280 00:12:22,010 --> 00:12:24,280 and then if a person could just do this, 281 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,539 he would give them small amounts just to get 282 00:12:26,549 --> 00:12:28,840 a little more control over that very incremental, 283 00:12:29,099 --> 00:12:31,000 and he worked them very, very hard. 284 00:12:31,210 --> 00:12:34,559 And they would have to do things like, you know, try to wash pots. And, 285 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:37,729 you know, people would come in, they couldn't dress themselves, they 286 00:12:37,739 --> 00:12:39,989 couldn't eat, they couldn't put food on a fork. 287 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,549 They literally would have been dependent for the rest of their lives. 288 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,030 And Michael Bernstein was one of the first to go 289 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:47,770 through this and after two weeks of very intensive training, 290 00:12:47,780 --> 00:12:49,390 and that's not a long time. No. No. 291 00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:49,659 It 292 00:12:49,809 --> 00:12:49,969 isn't, 293 00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:54,650 He was able to function, get back to work and function as a surgeon. 294 00:12:55,479 --> 00:12:59,270 And there are people who went to Taub clinic, there was one person 295 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,130 I spoke to had 296 00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:03,179 a stroke almost 50 years before. He had been 297 00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:05,270 a little boy playing baseball when he had a stroke. 298 00:13:05,390 --> 00:13:06,409 They 299 00:13:06,739 --> 00:13:08,650 could help him. All these years, 300 00:13:08,659 --> 00:13:09,789 after the fact, I mean, 301 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,489 that's just so remarkable because that plasticity 302 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:14,090 and the ability to reorganize 303 00:13:14,099 --> 00:13:15,030 is in the brain. 304 00:13:15,289 --> 00:13:18,250 And it has even helped people who've had traumatic injuries, 305 00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:19,669 traumatic brain injuries. 306 00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:22,489 I think that's the kind of thing that would be very helpful 307 00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:23,450 for 308 00:13:23,669 --> 00:13:27,130 anyone who's got those kinds... Well, not anyone but many people with 309 00:13:27,789 --> 00:13:30,000 traumatic brain injuries, for instance, 310 00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:32,289 think of the soldiers getting back from Afghanistan. 311 00:13:32,419 --> 00:13:37,070 Is this kind of therapy or are these kinds of treatments now finding their way 312 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,070 into medical practice? 313 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,130 Not quite. 314 00:13:38,609 --> 00:13:41,609 No, because normally when someone has a stroke or any kind of brain damage, 315 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,239 I mean, we really do look on it very, 316 00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:46,530 very fatalistically and if the evidence is what we should, they don't improve. 317 00:13:47,049 --> 00:13:47,669 Yeah look. 318 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,929 We look on it fatalistically in part because studies that have been 319 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:54,469 done in the past and people with brain damage and strokes showed that 320 00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:55,960 interventions didn't work. 321 00:13:55,969 --> 00:13:59,590 But now that the neuroplasticians have laid out the laws of this new science, 322 00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:03,609 there's reason to be hopeful for a number of kinds 323 00:14:03,619 --> 00:14:04,640 of brain injuries. 324 00:14:04,650 --> 00:14:05,109 I bet, 325 00:14:05,119 --> 00:14:07,729 the notion of phantom pain again 326 00:14:07,739 --> 00:14:10,900 documented that people who lose limbs that they continue to 327 00:14:11,169 --> 00:14:11,909 to hurt. 328 00:14:12,169 --> 00:14:13,729 You again claim that 329 00:14:13,739 --> 00:14:17,590 neuroplasticity both explains this and that researchers 330 00:14:17,599 --> 00:14:21,270 using the theories of neuroplasticity have been able to cure phantom pain. 331 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,049 Tell me about that. 332 00:14:22,450 --> 00:14:26,859 Well, phantom pain was one of the great mysteries of medicine. 333 00:14:26,869 --> 00:14:29,710 How is it possible to feel pain in a limb that isn't there? 334 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,950 And what a neurologist named 335 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,229 Ramachandran discovered was 336 00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:37,390 that in patients who've lost their arms and then 337 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,429 get pain or in one case in scratch or itches, 338 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:41,539 What happens is 339 00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:43,010 if you remove an arm, 340 00:14:43,969 --> 00:14:47,150 there's cortical real estate if you will, that had been devoted to 341 00:14:47,260 --> 00:14:50,469 moving that arm and feeling for that arm, it's now dormant. 342 00:14:50,869 --> 00:14:51,340 In the brain. 343 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:51,979 In the brain. 344 00:14:53,119 --> 00:14:56,950 So adjacent cortical real estate takes it over. 345 00:14:57,409 --> 00:14:58,030 And 346 00:14:58,369 --> 00:15:01,349 in the typical human body map, 347 00:15:01,599 --> 00:15:04,929 an area that's very close to the arm is actually the face. And 348 00:15:05,099 --> 00:15:10,989 we now know that phantom pain is often caused because the face maps in the brain 349 00:15:11,969 --> 00:15:15,669 say, "Hey, there's more cortical real estate for us and they start to move in there 350 00:15:16,390 --> 00:15:16,969 and 351 00:15:17,179 --> 00:15:17,609 reorganize 352 00:15:17,849 --> 00:15:21,729 the brain." There was one patient he had who had an unscratchable itch, 353 00:15:21,739 --> 00:15:23,960 so that was a terrible affliction for him. 354 00:15:24,229 --> 00:15:24,570 And 355 00:15:25,130 --> 00:15:28,090 Ramachandran eventually figured that if you just scratched the man's cheek, 356 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:29,969 the itch went away. And 357 00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:33,710 Ramachandran was able by the way to sort of trick the brain 358 00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:39,210 into rewiring itself using this same neuroplasticity. 359 00:15:39,479 --> 00:15:41,419 One of the reasons that people would 360 00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:46,169 have these frozen pains is because once the input is stopped into the brain 361 00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:47,250 from, 362 00:15:48,109 --> 00:15:49,289 you know, from the arm, 363 00:15:49,739 --> 00:15:50,849 it's as though 364 00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:53,890 that's the picture that remains in the brain, there's no 365 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:57,369 new input to say. Now the arm is moving again. 366 00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:59,080 Many people who had phantoms 367 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,169 felt their arms were frozen and in pain. 368 00:16:02,309 --> 00:16:05,869 So, he set up a mirror device where you would look at what your real arm, 369 00:16:06,210 --> 00:16:07,729 let's say this arm had been cut off. 370 00:16:07,979 --> 00:16:10,820 You'd look at your real arm and then you look into a mirror right here. 371 00:16:10,830 --> 00:16:12,409 The brain would be tricking you thinking that your arm was... 372 00:16:12,659 --> 00:16:15,770 Think that your left arm was moving, that which, of course, didn't exist, 373 00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:17,489 you'd kind of put your stump near it 374 00:16:17,969 --> 00:16:18,489 and 375 00:16:18,869 --> 00:16:22,369 that rewired the map so that the frozen phantom could move. 376 00:16:22,619 --> 00:16:22,789 Now, 377 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,150 I understand that neuroplasticity also tells us something 378 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:27,969 about the nature of sexual attraction and love. 379 00:16:28,369 --> 00:16:28,890 What is that? 380 00:16:29,390 --> 00:16:33,239 There's tremendous variation, of course, in what people are turned on by, 381 00:16:33,250 --> 00:16:34,500 let's say sexually, I mean, 382 00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:36,359 you know, take 383 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:38,969 situations in other cultures 384 00:16:39,409 --> 00:16:41,900 seem unnatural sometimes. 385 00:16:41,909 --> 00:16:45,690 And we learned that people can develop attractions. If you think of 386 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:49,929 the whole idea that Chinese men 100 years ago in the aristocracy were 387 00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:53,369 totally turned on by women who had their feet broken and bound up. 388 00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:54,409 Okay. 389 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,219 We start to realize that sexual tastes can be acquired and we 390 00:16:59,229 --> 00:17:01,059 we can acquire sexual types. 391 00:17:02,059 --> 00:17:04,719 And we're seeing a lot of this happening now actually 392 00:17:04,729 --> 00:17:06,819 with the internet and internet porn in a way. 393 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:09,719 You know, there are a lot of stories that started to 394 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:10,989 become 395 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,329 public in the nineties about men 396 00:17:14,469 --> 00:17:15,858 who would get on the internet 397 00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:19,040 and they'd sort of just be searching 398 00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:21,650 around and then they fasten on to certain images 399 00:17:21,930 --> 00:17:24,348 that would really turn them on, that really surprise them. 400 00:17:24,358 --> 00:17:27,329 And then they would practice them over and over and over again 401 00:17:27,729 --> 00:17:32,349 and they would have orgasms and when a person has an orgasm, they secrete a 402 00:17:32,369 --> 00:17:36,170 brain chemical called dopamine, which actually reinforces the circuit 403 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,170 and rewards them. 404 00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:42,219 So, dopamine is a neurotransmitter or a brain chemical 405 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,319 that's very involved in consolidating a new circuit. 406 00:17:45,329 --> 00:17:48,719 And these men would start to develop new sexual attractions 407 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,219 that at times seemed bizarre to them, 408 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:53,739 sometimes they dipped into childhood things. 409 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:54,010 I mean, 410 00:17:54,020 --> 00:17:55,849 one story I talked about in the book is 411 00:17:55,859 --> 00:17:58,300 a man who developed an attraction to spanking sites. 412 00:17:58,310 --> 00:18:01,500 And if you think about it, spanking would seem to have to do with early childhood. 413 00:18:01,969 --> 00:18:04,359 But the other thing that was happening for these men and this 414 00:18:04,369 --> 00:18:06,949 was reported over and over and I saw it in clinical practice 415 00:18:07,199 --> 00:18:07,750 is 416 00:18:07,979 --> 00:18:11,189 they said that for a mysterious reason, they were losing 417 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,910 interest in 418 00:18:13,219 --> 00:18:13,949 their own 419 00:18:14,290 --> 00:18:17,670 partners, even though objectively they found them to be attractive. 420 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,910 So, here was a case where 421 00:18:20,339 --> 00:18:23,790 because of plasticity, people were inadvertently rewiring 422 00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:25,300 their brains. 423 00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:30,900 And plasticity isn't always a good thing. That it can lead to rigid behaviors (VOICE OVERLAP). 424 00:18:31,170 --> 00:18:35,560 And in this case, it leads typically or very frequently to a kind of an addiction. 425 00:18:35,569 --> 00:18:39,099 And if you think about it, addictions are about plastic change in the brain. 426 00:18:39,469 --> 00:18:42,500 There are certain people who, if they have alcohol, 427 00:18:42,949 --> 00:18:44,760 they have a chemical 428 00:18:45,050 --> 00:18:48,589 sequence that's fired in their brain and a chemical called delta 429 00:18:48,709 --> 00:18:48,780 FosB 430 00:18:49,050 --> 00:18:50,540 is released 431 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,439 that changes their brain permanently. 432 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,310 That's why sometimes it does make sense for a person to say, 433 00:18:56,550 --> 00:18:59,810 even though they haven't had a drink for years, I'm an alcoholic. 434 00:18:59,819 --> 00:19:01,579 It's in plasticity terms, 435 00:19:01,589 --> 00:19:06,079 my brain has been structurally altered by my interactions with alcohol. 436 00:19:06,510 --> 00:19:11,079 Now, interesting you say that because they also point out that psychoanalysis 437 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:12,540 can be used 438 00:19:12,689 --> 00:19:16,180 to open up the brain's pathways and reorder 439 00:19:16,569 --> 00:19:20,069 the brain's function too. I think you call this 440 00:19:20,349 --> 00:19:22,339 neuroplastic therapy. 441 00:19:22,689 --> 00:19:26,030 Explain to me what that is and how it would work. 442 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,540 It turns out, you know, based on what I told you before about, 443 00:19:29,969 --> 00:19:32,729 you know, thoughts altering genetic behavior 444 00:19:32,739 --> 00:19:37,030 that thoughts in therapy are actually changing brain structure as well. 445 00:19:37,199 --> 00:19:38,849 They change different brain structures. 446 00:19:38,859 --> 00:19:42,030 But the major therapists that we know that are successful 447 00:19:42,969 --> 00:19:46,910 and that includes psychoanalytic therapies, cognitive behavioral therapies, 448 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,709 it's something called interpersonal therapy. 449 00:19:48,719 --> 00:19:50,680 They're all for slightly different conditions, 450 00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:51,709 all 451 00:19:51,869 --> 00:19:55,780 rewire the brain, all change the balance in the brain's department. 452 00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:56,510 So, 453 00:19:56,939 --> 00:19:59,670 they are as every bit as biological, if you were 454 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,760 in intervention as the use of drugs and the advantage of psychotherapy is if 455 00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:05,459 you don't absolutely need drugs. 456 00:20:05,829 --> 00:20:07,989 And I want to say, I mean, I use drugs sometimes 457 00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:09,579 but the advantage of them is 458 00:20:09,819 --> 00:20:10,260 they 459 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,810 don't have as many side effects 460 00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:14,540 in general. And, 461 00:20:14,790 --> 00:20:16,260 if you think about it, drugs 462 00:20:17,189 --> 00:20:20,930 as they are today are very blunt instruments, you take a pill and it goes 463 00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:24,060 and it bays every cell in your brain and in fact, in your body, 464 00:20:24,069 --> 00:20:25,979 and that's why we get so many side effects. 465 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,459 And it would be 466 00:20:27,699 --> 00:20:31,260 to a certain extent, if you're using thoughts for the intervention, 467 00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:32,760 you're like more like a micro surgeon 468 00:20:32,770 --> 00:20:35,449 going into the thought patterns that are probably... 469 00:20:35,699 --> 00:20:41,209 Do you know enough about the brain to be that precise in terms of psychiatry 470 00:20:41,219 --> 00:20:42,540 and psychoanalysis. 471 00:20:42,550 --> 00:20:45,430 In other words, if I make an interpretation about the meaning of behavior, do 472 00:20:45,439 --> 00:20:46,459 I know where in the brain 473 00:20:46,469 --> 00:20:47,010 it's going? 474 00:20:47,339 --> 00:20:50,479 Well if we're treating, let's say an anxiety problem, right? 475 00:20:50,770 --> 00:20:55,000 We now know that if you use psychoanalytic psychotherapy 476 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:55,719 and 477 00:20:56,130 --> 00:20:58,040 you take a person before the therapy 478 00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:58,939 and 479 00:20:59,310 --> 00:20:59,819 you 480 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,880 take the thing that's making them anxious and you 481 00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:04,800 make them think about it or attend to it, 482 00:21:04,969 --> 00:21:09,189 the part of the brain that's likely to light up and trigger these 483 00:21:09,199 --> 00:21:11,099 sort of bolts of anxiety. 484 00:21:11,469 --> 00:21:14,750 And after they go through the therapy, if the therapy works, 485 00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:17,800 those parts of the brain aren't triggered. Now you 486 00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:21,609 have an absolutely horrifying statistic here about our generation, 487 00:21:21,619 --> 00:21:22,380 the baby boomers, 488 00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:27,560 those between 40 and 60 that they have over a 50% chance of reaching the age of 85, 489 00:21:27,949 --> 00:21:32,030 and that 85-year-olds have a 47% chance of having Alzheimer's. 490 00:21:32,130 --> 00:21:37,209 We're going to have a population full of dementia. I mean, what can baby boomers do 491 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,640 to enhance their brain power and ward off that disease? 492 00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:40,640 Okay. 493 00:21:40,650 --> 00:21:42,979 So, there's two things that we worry about when 494 00:21:42,989 --> 00:21:45,209 we think of mental decline as we get older. 495 00:21:45,489 --> 00:21:48,890 One of them is a more benign thing and more common, 496 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:50,979 it's called age-related cognitive decline. 497 00:21:51,290 --> 00:21:54,109 The senior moments that begin in our 50s that 498 00:21:54,349 --> 00:21:55,569 frighten people 499 00:21:56,189 --> 00:21:59,709 and then there are the serious dementias. 500 00:22:00,569 --> 00:22:03,469 So, the good news is that we know for a fact 501 00:22:03,479 --> 00:22:08,329 now that age-related cognitive decline is reversible through brain exercises. 502 00:22:08,339 --> 00:22:09,810 And I met with a man Stanley 503 00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:11,209 Karansky who was 90, 504 00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:13,520 who started to have some difficulties 505 00:22:13,650 --> 00:22:16,390 with senior moments. His handwriting was sloppy. 506 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,329 He was no longer alert, he wasn't socializing much. 507 00:22:19,869 --> 00:22:20,339 And 508 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:21,459 in six weeks 509 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:22,520 and 510 00:22:22,729 --> 00:22:22,739 roughly 511 00:22:22,849 --> 00:22:25,449 an hour a day, he was able to reverse all of that. What was he doing? 512 00:22:26,099 --> 00:22:29,280 He was doing a program called Posit Science that I described in the book. 513 00:22:29,290 --> 00:22:31,079 Now, this is a company, an actual company. 514 00:22:31,219 --> 00:22:34,500 Yeah. Tell me more about because you have been claiming like 80-year-olds to be like 50-year-olds. 515 00:22:34,819 --> 00:22:35,849 Well, they've shown it. 516 00:22:35,859 --> 00:22:39,489 Posit Science was set up by perhaps 517 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:41,489 the world's leading neuroplastician and 518 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,800 neuroplasticity researcher, Michael Merzenich. 519 00:22:44,349 --> 00:22:44,979 And, 520 00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:48,959 he's already a man of great accomplishment. He was one of 521 00:22:48,969 --> 00:22:52,260 the inventors of the cochlear implant that allows the deaf to hear. 522 00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:52,709 He's 523 00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:55,380 helped kids with learning disabilities, 524 00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:58,709 with reading disabilities, 525 00:22:58,979 --> 00:23:03,180 moved from problems to basically normal or above normal levels. 526 00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:06,319 And they set up a program that rebuilds 527 00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:08,119 the auditory cortex, 528 00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:12,920 the part of the brain that processes language from scratch in older people. 529 00:23:12,930 --> 00:23:18,180 What happens is that we age. One of the reasons that we cannot remember things 530 00:23:18,430 --> 00:23:19,250 is 531 00:23:20,349 --> 00:23:22,780 our brain maps for sounds 532 00:23:22,939 --> 00:23:24,979 are just kind of getting dulled. 533 00:23:24,989 --> 00:23:28,900 They need to be tuned up at the very basic level of distinguishing sounds like "ba 534 00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:29,459 and da 535 00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:30,199 and pa." 536 00:23:31,290 --> 00:23:34,709 The reason is we haven't really used them intensively 537 00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:39,270 often. Once, we hit middle age, we are usually replaying, mastered skills. 538 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,089 But to maintain a brain in good shape, 539 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,949 you've got to work as hard as you worked when 540 00:23:42,959 --> 00:23:45,209 you were learning a French vocabulary in high school, 541 00:23:45,219 --> 00:23:48,069 maybe you didn't work at it, but as hard as you should have worked at. 542 00:23:48,780 --> 00:23:51,699 And so people go for decades without 543 00:23:51,709 --> 00:23:54,150 putting themselves for that intensive kind of training 544 00:23:54,479 --> 00:23:54,910 and 545 00:23:55,829 --> 00:23:57,540 the cortex just kind of gets 546 00:23:57,699 --> 00:24:00,579 dull and you develop what are called fuzzy engrams. 547 00:24:00,589 --> 00:24:04,420 You don't hear the sound of the person's name at the party crisply, 548 00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:08,579 so they rebuild it from the ground up. How would our viewers get this program? 549 00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:11,969 Posit Science. 550 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,410 Just go to put that in the internet and you'll come to the website for that. 551 00:24:15,689 --> 00:24:18,760 What do you think the next big breakthrough is in brain research? 552 00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:20,890 What's the next big thing we should be watching for? 553 00:24:22,199 --> 00:24:24,699 It's the translation of the fundamental laws 554 00:24:24,709 --> 00:24:29,250 of brain plasticity into applications for everything 555 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:34,319 in therapeutics, in all kinds of training, you know, that means sports, 556 00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:38,979 the military education, anything you want to do and develop 557 00:24:39,109 --> 00:24:39,979 Right 558 00:24:40,290 --> 00:24:40,819 now 559 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:42,260 basically 560 00:24:42,589 --> 00:24:47,390 many of these disciplines have an intuitive grasp of some of the laws of plasticity, 561 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,579 but the neuroplasticians can help sharpen and speed up learning. 562 00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:51,729 So 563 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,400 that's where I imagine it would come. 564 00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:54,579 I know that people will want to get 565 00:24:54,589 --> 00:24:58,000 very highfalutin and try to facilitate neuroplastic change 566 00:24:58,410 --> 00:25:01,619 with chemicals and some of that might be doable. 567 00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:04,020 But that's also very problematic for the reason I 568 00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:06,209 said that chemicals are still a very blunt instrument. 569 00:25:06,859 --> 00:25:07,859 At a personal level, 570 00:25:07,869 --> 00:25:10,180 I mean that this book is full of very, 571 00:25:10,189 --> 00:25:13,619 not just amazing but inspirational and uplifting stories. 572 00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:13,869 I mean, 573 00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:15,719 over the course of doing the research, 574 00:25:15,729 --> 00:25:18,180 did it kind of change your sense of what 575 00:25:18,189 --> 00:25:20,699 human potential and perhaps even human nature is? 576 00:25:20,709 --> 00:25:21,540 Yes, it did. 577 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:23,900 One of the most important insights I think I had 578 00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:26,719 while doing the book was what I call the "plastic paradox," 579 00:25:26,729 --> 00:25:27,619 and that is this. 580 00:25:28,089 --> 00:25:29,250 The plasticity, 581 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,069 the brain is always plastic, 582 00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:34,910 but it can give rise to both flexible or rigid behaviors. 583 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,030 It can give rise to rigid behaviors because once those networks are established, 584 00:25:40,189 --> 00:25:40,660 they 585 00:25:40,819 --> 00:25:43,060 tend to out compete the other one in a 586 00:25:43,069 --> 00:25:45,290 war of nerves that's going on inside our head. 587 00:25:45,489 --> 00:25:48,260 You know, the human brain is a habit-forming thing. 588 00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:48,979 So, 589 00:25:49,849 --> 00:25:53,189 the way to understand plasticity is think of it as like a hill, 590 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,819 snow on a hill in winter, and we want to ski down that hill, 591 00:25:57,829 --> 00:26:00,959 so we get to the top of it. Because the snow is plastic or pliable, 592 00:26:00,969 --> 00:26:02,790 we can take many paths down that hill, 593 00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:04,170 but it being a hill, 594 00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:08,609 it has rocks and trees and we be inclined towards certain favorite paths. 595 00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:10,699 As we 596 00:26:10,939 --> 00:26:12,750 keep using those paths 597 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,420 again precisely because the snow is pliable and plastic, 598 00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:18,359 we'll develop tracks and ruts. 599 00:26:18,829 --> 00:26:20,540 And what we do in our lives 600 00:26:20,550 --> 00:26:25,109 and what we tend to think that because we're stuck in a rut 601 00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:27,140 and repeating something 602 00:26:27,589 --> 00:26:31,140 that not only is the behavior rigid, but the underlying brain is rigid. 603 00:26:31,290 --> 00:26:32,989 So when I'm working with patients, 604 00:26:33,239 --> 00:26:36,180 I try not to get fooled by the plastic paradox and 605 00:26:36,189 --> 00:26:38,920 they're often fooled by the plastic paradox and I would submit 606 00:26:39,449 --> 00:26:39,979 that 607 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,859 all of humanity to a large degree has been fooled by the plastic paradox. 608 00:26:43,869 --> 00:26:45,530 I think we've underestimated 609 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,430 how plastic our brains really are. 610 00:26:48,069 --> 00:26:50,469 Doctor Norman Doidge, I want to thank you very much for joining me. 611 00:26:50,479 --> 00:26:52,849 It's been fascinating and a real pleasure. Thank you.