WEBVTT

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well welcome everybody to the night's

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event my name is Laurie Roberts I am the

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President of the United States here at

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VCU the United States is a group of

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atheists agnostics secular students

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apparently the people in the back cannot

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hear me can you hear me now good okay

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like I was saying I'm Roy Roberts

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president of the United secular Alliance

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we are a student group dedicated to

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promotion of secular ideals and I

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provide and providing a community for

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the non-religious students here at VCU I

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would like to thank the Honors College

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and the College of Humanities and

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Sciences for their financial

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contributions without which this event

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could not have happened and I would like

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to thank some certain individuals such

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as Shelley Mount Joy which I'm here at

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the moment

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Anthony Ellis who Larry Mendoza and Dana

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marks who I believe is manning a camera

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at this moment for their help with

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making this a possibility I would also

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like to thank Dean

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Timothy Halsey of the Honors College who

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will be moderating this event and I will

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yield the floor to him

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Thank You Roy

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and thanks to the VCU chapter of the

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United secular Alliance for arranging

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tonight's event good evening and thanks

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to all of you for coming to what I am

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absolutely certain will be a very

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entertaining and informative evening

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this evening as you all already know

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we're honored to have Christopher

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Hitchens and Frank Turek with us to

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debate an ancient and modern question

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does God exist there is perhaps no more

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contentious issue that we could consider

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accordingly this debate will follow

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specific guidelines to begin each

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speaker will have 20 minutes to make his

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opening statement

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dr. Turek will speak first since he

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argues in the affirmative following the

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opening statements each speaker will

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have five minutes to rebut his opponent

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followed by an opportunity to question

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his opponent directly each speaker will

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be allowed three questions of the other

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with questions limited to one minute and

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answers to five after the direct

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questioning speakers will respond to

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questions from the audience asked by me

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from the cards that you were handed when

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you entered the room as your questions

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occur to you please write them on these

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cards and at a point in the debate I'll

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ask the ushers come forward and collect

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them if you would pass them we will ask

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as many of them as we have time to do

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given the nature of tonight's debate it

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is vitally important that everyone in

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attendance act in accordance with the

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highest standards of social behavior

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anyone acting rudely or behaving disrupt

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League disruptively rather will be

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thrown out

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really and now our speakers Frank Turek

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is a speaker author columnist and

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founder of cross examine org an

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organization dedicated to preserving

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rather to presenting evidence for the

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Christian worldview at universities high

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schools and churches he is a columnist

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for Town Hall comm and is the co-author

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of two books including I don't have

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enough faith to be an atheist he has

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appeared on numerous TV and radio

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programs including The O'Reilly Factor

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Hannity and combs and politically

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incorrect with Bill Maher

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dr. Turk has a doctorate in apologetics

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from southern evangelical seminary in

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Charlotte North Carolina at a master's

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degree in public administration from

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George Washington University where he

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also taught courses in leadership and

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management Christopher Hitchens is the

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author of more than 10 books including

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most recently God is not great how

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religion poisons everything he is a

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contributing editor to the INEC monthly

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in Vanity Fair and has written

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prolifically for American and English

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periodicals including the nation the

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London Review of Books

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Granta Harper's Slate and The Washington

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Post

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he's a regular television and a radio

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commentator appearing on hardball with

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Chris Matthews the Charlie Rose show

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Real Time with Bill Maher the Tavis

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Smiley show and c-span's Washington

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journal among others mr. Hitchens is

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also taught as a visiting professor at

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the University of California Berkeley

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the University of Pittsburgh and the New

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School for Social Research in Manhattan

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now according to the rules of our debate

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dr. Turek will make his opening comments

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dr.

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good evening ladies and gentlemen my

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name is Frank Turk before I get started

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let me ask you to ask you this how many

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have heard me before or this is your

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first time how many of you are here

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tonight

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how many do not respond to surveys three

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out of 10 don't respond to surveys Dean

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this is my first formal debate so give

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me a little grace if I can't cram

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everything I want to say into twenty

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minutes I will say however I've had many

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informal debates most of them with my

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wife and I have not fared very well

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there I will say however that she is

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probably the perfect sparring partner

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for Christopher Hitchens because her

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nickname at our house is nails and nails

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is the type of woman that if she ain't

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happy ain't nobody in the house happy so

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hopefully I'm prepared for a very

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formidable opponent in Christopher

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Hitchens and I do want to say that I

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very much like Christopher Hitchens I've

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been following him for many years I'm

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kind of a political junkie so I've seen

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him around quite a bit and I appreciate

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his charm and his wit and I agree with

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him on a lot of things obviously not the

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issue of god that would make a very

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boring debate but I will say that I went

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up to Christopher just about a half-hour

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ago and I shook his hand I said

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Christopher I'm actually a fan and he

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smiled and he said the night is young

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I want to I want to thank the United

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secular Alliance I want to thank Daniel

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Pendergrass where's Daniel you here

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Daniel he was my contact here I also

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want to thank Dean Tim Timothy Halsey I

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also want to thank of course Christopher

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for doing this debate I think it's

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impossible not to like Christopher and

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as I mentioned I do he's carrying the

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cross for atheism and he carries it very

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well tonight I'm going to carry the

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cross for theism and I want to point out

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that I think we're both trying to

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explain the world around us we both have

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the burden of proof to explain why

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reality is the way it is I have to show

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how reality is best explained by theism

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and Christopher has to explain how

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reality is best explained by atheism and

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I think we should follow the evidence

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where it leads I think that the evidence

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we see all around us and within us leads

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to a spaceless timeless immaterial

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personal powerful intelligent moral

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creator ie what we would call a theistic

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God and this creator created this

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universe and the life within us or the

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life within it I should say now I'm

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going to try and summarize my 450 page

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book at least the first 200 pages of it

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in the next 20 minutes or next 18

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minutes at this point now and that is an

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impossible task that would be about 20

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pages a minute actually I probably can

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do it because I'm originally from New

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Jersey see I speak it 150 words a minute

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with Gustav 350 so if I go a little

00:08:36.550 --> 00:08:38.600


00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:40.040
quick and you want to see more of the

00:08:38.590 --> 00:08:40.040


00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.900
evidence please get the book I don't

00:08:40.030 --> 00:08:41.900


00:08:40.040 --> 00:08:43.010
have enough faith to be atheist and I

00:08:41.890 --> 00:08:43.010


00:08:41.900 --> 00:08:44.870
want to point out that all the proceeds

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:44.870


00:08:43.010 --> 00:08:49.310
from the sale of the book will go to

00:08:44.860 --> 00:08:49.310


00:08:44.870 --> 00:08:51.950
feed needy children mine okay see I've

00:08:49.300 --> 00:08:51.950


00:08:49.310 --> 00:08:53.330
got three sons the oldest two are in

00:08:51.940 --> 00:08:53.330


00:08:51.950 --> 00:08:54.470
college right now so I need a little

00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:54.470


00:08:53.330 --> 00:08:58.340
help and one of them is sitting right

00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:58.340


00:08:54.470 --> 00:09:01.370
over here all right Christopher on page

00:08:58.330 --> 00:09:01.370


00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:04.210
282 of God is not great available at

00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.210


00:09:01.370 --> 00:09:06.380
fine bookstores everywhere says this

00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.380


00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:09.080
thanks to the telescope and the

00:09:06.370 --> 00:09:09.080


00:09:06.380 --> 00:09:11.540
microscope religion no longer offers an

00:09:09.070 --> 00:09:11.540


00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.640
explanation for anything important I

00:09:11.530 --> 00:09:13.640


00:09:11.540 --> 00:09:16.100
think that is exactly

00:09:13.630 --> 00:09:16.100


00:09:13.640 --> 00:09:18.290
wrong I think due to the telescope in

00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:18.290


00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:21.110
the microscope we are seeing evidence

00:09:18.280 --> 00:09:21.110


00:09:18.290 --> 00:09:22.790
that leads directly to God I'm going to

00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:22.790


00:09:21.110 --> 00:09:25.220
give you three major arguments for this

00:09:22.780 --> 00:09:25.220


00:09:22.790 --> 00:09:27.920
and then I'm going to give you four more

00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:27.920


00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:29.270
that are a result I think of a theistic

00:09:27.910 --> 00:09:29.270


00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:31.520
worldview and spend most of my time on

00:09:29.260 --> 00:09:31.520


00:09:29.270 --> 00:09:34.280
the three and then I'll just mention the

00:09:31.510 --> 00:09:34.280


00:09:31.520 --> 00:09:35.360
last four the three are the cosmological

00:09:34.270 --> 00:09:35.360


00:09:34.280 --> 00:09:37.430
argument from the beginning of the

00:09:35.350 --> 00:09:37.430


00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.170
universe the next one is the

00:09:37.420 --> 00:09:39.170


00:09:37.430 --> 00:09:40.910
teleological argument from the design of

00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:40.910


00:09:39.170 --> 00:09:43.250
the universe and the design of life and

00:09:40.900 --> 00:09:43.250


00:09:40.910 --> 00:09:44.930
the third is the moral argument let's

00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:44.930


00:09:43.250 --> 00:09:46.910
start with the cosmological argument and

00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:46.910


00:09:44.930 --> 00:09:48.800
this is basically the argument from the

00:09:46.900 --> 00:09:48.800


00:09:46.910 --> 00:09:50.690
Big Bang that the universe had a

00:09:48.790 --> 00:09:50.690


00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:52.010
beginning if it had a beginning it must

00:09:50.680 --> 00:09:52.010


00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:53.570
have had a beginner now for some reason

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:53.570


00:09:52.010 --> 00:09:56.120
Christians are afraid of the Big Bang

00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:56.120


00:09:53.570 --> 00:09:58.100
I'm not afraid of the Big Bang I believe

00:09:56.110 --> 00:09:58.100


00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.140
in the Big Bang I just think I know who

00:09:58.090 --> 00:10:00.140


00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:02.360
banged it now

00:10:00.130 --> 00:10:02.360


00:10:00.140 --> 00:10:04.130
the evidence for the Big Bang is good

00:10:02.350 --> 00:10:04.130


00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:07.040
I'm going to give you evidence in an

00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:07.040


00:10:04.130 --> 00:10:08.330
acronym Serge su are GE I'm not going to

00:10:07.030 --> 00:10:08.330


00:10:07.040 --> 00:10:09.680
spend a lot of time on it because I

00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:09.680


00:10:08.330 --> 00:10:12.080
think even Christopher in his book on

00:10:09.670 --> 00:10:12.080


00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:14.240
page 65 says the Big Bang is the

00:10:12.070 --> 00:10:14.240


00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:15.770
accepted origin of e of the universe

00:10:14.230 --> 00:10:15.770


00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.990
S stands for the second law of

00:10:15.760 --> 00:10:17.990


00:10:15.770 --> 00:10:20.060
thermodynamics that the universe is

00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:20.060


00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:21.920
running down as that Sun is up there it

00:10:20.050 --> 00:10:21.920


00:10:20.060 --> 00:10:23.540
is burning out ultimately we will go to

00:10:21.910 --> 00:10:23.540


00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:25.670
heat death as Christopher has said in

00:10:23.530 --> 00:10:25.670


00:10:23.540 --> 00:10:28.100
his book well if the universe is eternal

00:10:25.660 --> 00:10:28.100


00:10:25.670 --> 00:10:29.930
that Sun would have burned out a long

00:10:28.090 --> 00:10:29.930


00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:32.000
time ago but since the Sun is still up

00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:32.000


00:10:29.930 --> 00:10:33.800
there and we still have energy here the

00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:33.800


00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.600
universe must have had a beginning the

00:10:33.790 --> 00:10:35.600


00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:38.530
second law of thermodynamics also says

00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:38.530


00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:41.360
that ordered things go toward dis order

00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:41.360


00:10:38.530 --> 00:10:43.160
it affects the this school we have to

00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:43.160


00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.070
paint the walls we have to put gas in

00:10:43.150 --> 00:10:45.070


00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:47.570
our car the second law of thermodynamics

00:10:45.060 --> 00:10:47.570


00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:49.070
also affects us as human beings when you

00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:49.070


00:10:47.570 --> 00:10:51.710
get older the second law of

00:10:49.060 --> 00:10:51.710


00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:52.910
thermodynamics is is seen by the fact

00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:52.910


00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:54.320
that we all get dressed or diseased

00:10:52.900 --> 00:10:54.320


00:10:52.910 --> 00:10:57.020
that's when our chest falls into our

00:10:54.310 --> 00:10:57.020


00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:59.570
drawers see that's the second law of

00:10:57.010 --> 00:10:59.570


00:10:57.020 --> 00:11:00.590
thermodynamics the UN surge is the fact

00:10:59.560 --> 00:11:00.590


00:10:59.570 --> 00:11:04.120
that the universe is expanding

00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:04.120


00:11:00.590 --> 00:11:06.590
discovered by Edwin Hubble in 1929

00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:06.590


00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:08.090
Hubble deduced that if the universe is

00:11:06.580 --> 00:11:08.090


00:11:06.590 --> 00:11:09.890
expanding if you watched everything in

00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:09.890


00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:12.530
Reverse you would see it collapse back

00:11:09.880 --> 00:11:12.530


00:11:09.890 --> 00:11:14.720
to a point mathematically and logically

00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:14.720


00:11:12.530 --> 00:11:16.670
to nothing so the universe exploded into

00:11:14.710 --> 00:11:16.670


00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:18.890
being out of nothing the G stands for

00:11:16.660 --> 00:11:18.890


00:11:16.670 --> 00:11:21.230
the great galaxies R stands for the

00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:21.230


00:11:18.890 --> 00:11:23.780
radiation echo discovered by accident by

00:11:21.220 --> 00:11:23.780


00:11:21.230 --> 00:11:25.520
Penzias and Wilson two scientists

00:11:23.770 --> 00:11:25.520


00:11:23.780 --> 00:11:27.410
working at Bell Labs in Holmdel New

00:11:25.510 --> 00:11:27.410


00:11:25.520 --> 00:11:29.060
Jersey they

00:11:27.400 --> 00:11:29.060


00:11:27.410 --> 00:11:31.009
discovered basically the radiation

00:11:29.050 --> 00:11:31.009


00:11:29.060 --> 00:11:33.889
afterglow or the remnant heat from the

00:11:30.999 --> 00:11:33.889


00:11:31.009 --> 00:11:35.480
initial Big Bang explosion the heat is

00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:35.480


00:11:33.889 --> 00:11:37.940
still out there it's just a couple of

00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:37.940


00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.500
degrees above absolute zero now good

00:11:37.930 --> 00:11:39.500


00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:41.779
theories predict predict future

00:11:39.490 --> 00:11:41.779


00:11:39.500 --> 00:11:43.339
discoveries and they said if the

00:11:41.769 --> 00:11:43.339


00:11:41.779 --> 00:11:44.779
radiation afterglow is out there and the

00:11:43.329 --> 00:11:44.779


00:11:43.339 --> 00:11:47.480
Big Bang really did occur we ought to

00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:47.480


00:11:44.779 --> 00:11:49.639
find very fine temperature variations

00:11:47.470 --> 00:11:49.639


00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:52.100
among the radiation afterglow so they

00:11:49.629 --> 00:11:52.100


00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:53.930
set up a satellite in 1989 to circle the

00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:53.930


00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:56.480
earth it's called a Kobe space satellite

00:11:53.920 --> 00:11:56.480


00:11:53.930 --> 00:11:58.910
to measure this radiation afterglow and

00:11:56.470 --> 00:11:58.910


00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.980
for three years they found nothing until

00:11:58.900 --> 00:12:00.980


00:11:58.910 --> 00:12:03.620
they tuned their instruments just a

00:12:00.970 --> 00:12:03.620


00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:05.360
little bit more precisely and found that

00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:05.360


00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:07.490
there were temperature variations in the

00:12:05.350 --> 00:12:07.490


00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:11.629
radiation afterglow and they were down

00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.629


00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:14.209
to one part in 100,000 George Smoot the

00:12:11.619 --> 00:12:14.209


00:12:11.629 --> 00:12:16.389
leader of the expedition said if you're

00:12:14.199 --> 00:12:16.389


00:12:14.209 --> 00:12:18.560
religious it's like looking at God

00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:18.560


00:12:16.389 --> 00:12:20.660
Stephen Hawking said this is the

00:12:18.550 --> 00:12:20.660


00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:23.480
greatest discovery of cosmology perhaps

00:12:20.650 --> 00:12:23.480


00:12:20.660 --> 00:12:25.339
the greatest discovery of all time those

00:12:23.470 --> 00:12:25.339


00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.629
temperature variations allowed galaxies

00:12:25.329 --> 00:12:26.629


00:12:25.339 --> 00:12:28.879
to ultimately form so we could

00:12:26.619 --> 00:12:28.879


00:12:26.629 --> 00:12:29.930
ultimately be here the Ian surd stands

00:12:28.869 --> 00:12:29.930


00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.819
for Einstein's theory of general

00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:31.819


00:12:29.930 --> 00:12:34.069
relativity which says time space and

00:12:31.809 --> 00:12:34.069


00:12:31.819 --> 00:12:35.630
matter are Co relative you can't have

00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:35.630


00:12:34.069 --> 00:12:36.680
space without time you can't have time

00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:36.680


00:12:35.630 --> 00:12:38.810
without space and matter

00:12:36.670 --> 00:12:38.810


00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:42.110
and in effect it says that the universe

00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:42.110


00:12:38.810 --> 00:12:44.389
came into existence with space and time

00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:44.389


00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:46.459
together in other words once there was

00:12:44.379 --> 00:12:46.459


00:12:44.389 --> 00:12:48.709
no time once there was no space once

00:12:46.449 --> 00:12:48.709


00:12:46.459 --> 00:12:51.740
there was no matter and then bang out of

00:12:48.699 --> 00:12:51.740


00:12:48.709 --> 00:12:54.680
nothing the universe exploded into being

00:12:51.730 --> 00:12:54.680


00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:56.750
what is nothing Aristotle had a good

00:12:54.670 --> 00:12:56.750


00:12:54.680 --> 00:13:00.560
definition of nothing he said nothing is

00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:00.560


00:12:56.750 --> 00:13:02.089
what rocks dream about nothing there was

00:13:00.550 --> 00:13:02.089


00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:03.889
no thing there was not positive and

00:13:02.079 --> 00:13:03.889


00:13:02.089 --> 00:13:06.110
negative energy as Isaac Asimov has said

00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.110


00:13:03.889 --> 00:13:08.149
there is not a vacuum there was not

00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:08.149


00:13:06.110 --> 00:13:10.939
swirling mathematical points as dr.

00:13:08.139 --> 00:13:10.939


00:13:08.149 --> 00:13:13.370
Atkins has said from Oxford there was

00:13:10.929 --> 00:13:13.370


00:13:10.939 --> 00:13:15.920
nothing what rocks dream about which

00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.920


00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:18.290
means that the universe exploded into

00:13:15.910 --> 00:13:18.290


00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:21.680
being all space all matter all time out

00:13:18.280 --> 00:13:21.680


00:13:18.290 --> 00:13:23.600
of nothing and several scientists have

00:13:21.670 --> 00:13:23.600


00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:25.519
pointed this out Stephen Hawking said

00:13:23.590 --> 00:13:25.519


00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.410
almost everyone now believes that the

00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:27.410


00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:30.170
universe and time itself had a beginning

00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:30.170


00:13:27.410 --> 00:13:32.629
at the Big Bang agnostic astronomer

00:13:30.160 --> 00:13:32.629


00:13:30.170 --> 00:13:35.000
Robert Jastrow the man who sits in Edwin

00:13:32.619 --> 00:13:35.000


00:13:32.629 --> 00:13:38.449
Hubble's chair or who did until February

00:13:34.990 --> 00:13:38.449


00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:40.700
when he died he was an agnostic he sat

00:13:38.439 --> 00:13:40.700


00:13:38.449 --> 00:13:43.760
at Mount Wilson and looked through

00:13:40.690 --> 00:13:43.760


00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:45.830
telescope he wrote a book in 1978 called

00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:45.830


00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:48.230
God and the astronomers and here's what

00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:48.230


00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:50.150
jestro wrote or here's what he said

00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:50.150


00:13:48.230 --> 00:13:51.590
actually in an interview he said

00:13:50.140 --> 00:13:51.590


00:13:50.150 --> 00:13:53.030
astronomers now found they painted

00:13:51.580 --> 00:13:53.030


00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:54.410
themselves into a corner because they

00:13:53.020 --> 00:13:54.410


00:13:53.030 --> 00:13:56.030
have proven by their own methods that

00:13:54.400 --> 00:13:56.030


00:13:54.410 --> 00:13:57.320
the world began abruptly in an act of

00:13:56.020 --> 00:13:57.320


00:13:56.030 --> 00:13:59.900
creation to which you can trace the

00:13:57.310 --> 00:13:59.900


00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:02.570
seeds of every star every planet every

00:13:59.890 --> 00:14:02.570


00:13:59.900 --> 00:14:03.710
living thing on in this cosmos and on

00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:03.710


00:14:02.570 --> 00:14:05.450
the earth and they have found that all

00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:05.450


00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:08.000
this has happened as a product of forces

00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.000


00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:09.910
they cannot hope to discover that there

00:14:07.990 --> 00:14:09.910


00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:12.290
are what I or anyone would call

00:14:09.900 --> 00:14:12.290


00:14:09.910 --> 00:14:15.320
supernatural forces at work is now I

00:14:12.280 --> 00:14:15.320


00:14:12.290 --> 00:14:17.030
think a scientifically proven fact why

00:14:15.310 --> 00:14:17.030


00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.680
isn't it agnostic astronomers saying

00:14:17.020 --> 00:14:18.680


00:14:17.030 --> 00:14:20.150
supernatural forces are at work

00:14:18.670 --> 00:14:20.150


00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:23.990
why couldn't nature have created the

00:14:20.140 --> 00:14:23.990


00:14:20.150 --> 00:14:26.480
universe because there was no nature

00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:26.480


00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:28.940
there was nothing what rocks dream about

00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:28.940


00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.160
and then the entire space-time continuum

00:14:28.930 --> 00:14:31.160


00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:33.710
left into existence if it's not a

00:14:31.150 --> 00:14:33.710


00:14:31.160 --> 00:14:36.980
natural cause by definition it must be a

00:14:33.700 --> 00:14:36.980


00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:40.870
supernatural cause something beyond the

00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:40.870


00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:43.220
natural in fact Arthur Eddington the

00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:43.220


00:14:40.870 --> 00:14:45.620
contemporary of Einstein who was an

00:14:43.210 --> 00:14:45.620


00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:47.300
expert in general relativity said quote

00:14:45.610 --> 00:14:47.300


00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:49.820
the beginning seems to present

00:14:47.290 --> 00:14:49.820


00:14:47.300 --> 00:14:51.530
insuperable difficulties unless we

00:14:49.810 --> 00:14:51.530


00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:53.510
agreed to look on it as frankly

00:14:51.520 --> 00:14:53.510


00:14:51.530 --> 00:14:55.850
supernatural so the cosmological

00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:55.850


00:14:53.510 --> 00:14:58.400
argument leaves us with one question

00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.400


00:14:55.850 --> 00:15:00.560
either no one created something out of

00:14:58.390 --> 00:15:00.560


00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:02.990
nothing or someone created something out

00:15:00.550 --> 00:15:02.990


00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:04.580
of nothing the atheistic view is no one

00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:04.580


00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:06.200
created something out of nothing the

00:15:04.570 --> 00:15:06.200


00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:07.580
theistic view is someone created

00:15:06.190 --> 00:15:07.580


00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.410
something out of nothing which view is

00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:09.410


00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:11.600
more reasonable I think Julie Andrews

00:15:09.400 --> 00:15:11.600


00:15:09.410 --> 00:15:14.690
had it right nothing comes from nothing

00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:14.690


00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.340
nothing ever could that's the

00:15:14.680 --> 00:15:16.340


00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:18.020
cosmological argument the teleological

00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:18.020


00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:20.470
argument the design argument actually

00:15:18.010 --> 00:15:20.470


00:15:18.020 --> 00:15:24.020
has two arguments contained within it it

00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:24.020


00:15:20.470 --> 00:15:27.080
is the argument from design and there

00:15:24.010 --> 00:15:27.080


00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:29.840
are dozens of factors about the universe

00:15:27.070 --> 00:15:29.840


00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:31.460
that are precisely died of design for

00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:31.460


00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:34.100
the existence of the universe and life

00:15:31.450 --> 00:15:34.100


00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:36.140
so not only did the universe explode

00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:36.140


00:15:34.100 --> 00:15:38.510
into being out of nothing it did so with

00:15:36.130 --> 00:15:38.510


00:15:36.140 --> 00:15:41.090
incredible precision Stephen Hawking has

00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:41.090


00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:42.950
noted that the universe would not exist

00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:42.950


00:15:41.090 --> 00:15:45.680
if there was a decrease in the expansion

00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:45.680


00:15:42.950 --> 00:15:49.910
rate one second after the Big Bang by

00:15:45.670 --> 00:15:49.910


00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:52.700
only one part in 100,000 million million

00:15:49.900 --> 00:15:52.700


00:15:49.910 --> 00:15:53.560
this led Hawking to conclude it would be

00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:53.560


00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:55.090
very difficult

00:15:53.550 --> 00:15:55.090


00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:57.940
to explain why the universe should have

00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:57.940


00:15:55.090 --> 00:16:00.310
begun in just this way except as an act

00:15:57.930 --> 00:16:00.310


00:15:57.940 --> 00:16:04.390
of God who intended to create beings

00:16:00.300 --> 00:16:04.390


00:16:00.310 --> 00:16:06.640
like us not only is it designed in terms

00:16:04.380 --> 00:16:06.640


00:16:04.390 --> 00:16:10.180
of its expansion but the gravitational

00:16:06.630 --> 00:16:10.180


00:16:06.640 --> 00:16:12.730
force is so precise if you change the

00:16:10.170 --> 00:16:12.730


00:16:10.180 --> 00:16:15.400
gravitational force by one part in 10 to

00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.400


00:16:12.730 --> 00:16:17.529
the 40 nothing would exist what's one

00:16:15.390 --> 00:16:17.529


00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:19.560
part in 10 to the 40 stretch a tape

00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:19.560


00:16:17.529 --> 00:16:22.960
measure across the entire known universe

00:16:19.550 --> 00:16:22.960


00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:24.430
set gravity at 1 inch on that anywhere

00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:24.430


00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:27.339
on that tape measure

00:16:24.420 --> 00:16:27.339


00:16:24.430 --> 00:16:29.560
if you move gravity the force of gravity

00:16:27.329 --> 00:16:29.560


00:16:27.339 --> 00:16:30.580
one inch in either direction we don't

00:16:29.550 --> 00:16:30.580


00:16:29.560 --> 00:16:32.920
exist

00:16:30.570 --> 00:16:32.920


00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:35.080
there's also factors about our universe

00:16:32.910 --> 00:16:35.080


00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:36.790
in particular our solar system that

00:16:35.070 --> 00:16:36.790


00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:40.470
cannot be explained unless there's a

00:16:36.780 --> 00:16:40.470


00:16:36.790 --> 00:16:43.660
designer behind it for example the earth

00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:43.660


00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:44.890
rotation 24 hours just right if it was a

00:16:43.650 --> 00:16:44.890


00:16:43.660 --> 00:16:48.400
little bit more a little bit less we

00:16:44.880 --> 00:16:48.400


00:16:44.890 --> 00:16:50.440
wouldn't be here the axial tilt 23 and

00:16:48.390 --> 00:16:50.440


00:16:48.400 --> 00:16:55.660
1/2 degrees just right change that a

00:16:50.430 --> 00:16:55.660


00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:58.180
little bit we're not here the Jupiter

00:16:55.650 --> 00:16:58.180


00:16:55.660 --> 00:16:59.890
being in its current orbit if Jupiter

00:16:58.170 --> 00:16:59.890


00:16:58.180 --> 00:17:02.440
wasn't there we'd bump up be bombarded

00:16:59.880 --> 00:17:02.440


00:16:59.890 --> 00:17:04.209
with space material why because Jupiter

00:17:02.430 --> 00:17:04.209


00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.189
acts as a cosmic vacuum cleaner it

00:17:04.199 --> 00:17:06.189


00:17:04.209 --> 00:17:08.920
attracts all the cosmic space junk to it

00:17:06.179 --> 00:17:08.920


00:17:06.189 --> 00:17:10.420
rather than us there are a number of

00:17:08.910 --> 00:17:10.420


00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:13.480
other factors I don't have time to get

00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:13.480


00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:15.400
into but Arno Penzias the man who

00:17:13.470 --> 00:17:15.400


00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:18.100
co-discovered the are in surge the

00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.100


00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:20.620
radiation afterglow said this astronomy

00:17:18.090 --> 00:17:20.620


00:17:18.100 --> 00:17:22.329
leads us to a unique event a universe

00:17:20.610 --> 00:17:22.329


00:17:20.620 --> 00:17:24.130
which was created out of nothing one

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.130


00:17:22.329 --> 00:17:25.959
with the very delicate balance needed to

00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:25.959


00:17:24.130 --> 00:17:28.960
provide exactly the right conditions

00:17:25.949 --> 00:17:28.960


00:17:25.959 --> 00:17:31.780
required to permit life and one which as

00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:31.780


00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:33.370
an underlined one might say and one

00:17:31.770 --> 00:17:33.370


00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:37.240
which has an underlying one might say

00:17:33.360 --> 00:17:37.240


00:17:33.370 --> 00:17:39.580
super natural plan a friend of

00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:39.580


00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:42.610
Christopher a theist Stephen Weinberg

00:17:39.570 --> 00:17:42.610


00:17:39.580 --> 00:17:45.250
who is an atheist put it this way life

00:17:42.600 --> 00:17:45.250


00:17:42.610 --> 00:17:47.620
as we know it would be impossible if any

00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.620


00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:50.590
one of several physical quantities had

00:17:47.610 --> 00:17:50.590


00:17:47.620 --> 00:17:52.630
slightly different values so not only is

00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:52.630


00:17:50.590 --> 00:17:54.880
the universe precisely tweaked and by

00:17:52.620 --> 00:17:54.880


00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:56.980
the way there would be no life unless

00:17:54.870 --> 00:17:56.980


00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.500
the universe was precisely fine-tuned as

00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.500


00:17:56.980 --> 00:18:01.900
I just mentioned but life itself is

00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:01.900


00:17:59.500 --> 00:18:03.370
designed let me take you to your

00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:03.370


00:18:01.900 --> 00:18:04.960
breakfast table for just a second

00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:04.960


00:18:03.370 --> 00:18:06.580
suppose you wanted to have a bowl

00:18:04.950 --> 00:18:06.580


00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.240
alphabet cereal you're a teenager and

00:18:06.570 --> 00:18:07.240


00:18:06.580 --> 00:18:08.620
you come down

00:18:07.230 --> 00:18:08.620


00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.270
ere's have bowl alphabet cereal and you

00:18:08.610 --> 00:18:10.270


00:18:08.620 --> 00:18:13.059
see the alphabet cereals knocked over

00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:13.059


00:18:10.270 --> 00:18:15.190
and the letters from the alphabet cereal

00:18:13.049 --> 00:18:15.190


00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:17.950
are spelled out on the placemat and it

00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:17.950


00:18:15.190 --> 00:18:19.240
spells take out the garbage mom what are

00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.240


00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:22.809
you going to assume cat knock the box

00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.809


00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:24.250
over earthquake shook the house or are

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.250


00:18:22.809 --> 00:18:25.780
you going to say no that's intelligent

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.780


00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:27.070
design from an intelligent being

00:18:25.770 --> 00:18:27.070


00:18:25.780 --> 00:18:28.840
or let's say you're laying out on the

00:18:27.060 --> 00:18:28.840


00:18:27.070 --> 00:18:30.160
beach and you see in the clouds drink

00:18:28.830 --> 00:18:30.160


00:18:28.840 --> 00:18:32.800
Coke what're you going to assume unusual

00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:32.800


00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.570
cloud formation no you're going to say

00:18:32.790 --> 00:18:34.570


00:18:32.800 --> 00:18:36.429
there has to be a skywriter up there

00:18:34.560 --> 00:18:36.429


00:18:34.570 --> 00:18:39.580
even if you didn't see and why because

00:18:36.419 --> 00:18:39.580


00:18:36.429 --> 00:18:41.380
messages oh we only come from mines well

00:18:39.570 --> 00:18:41.380


00:18:39.580 --> 00:18:43.600
it turns out there's a message in all

00:18:41.370 --> 00:18:43.600


00:18:41.380 --> 00:18:45.850
life called DNA we all know about it all

00:18:43.590 --> 00:18:45.850


00:18:43.600 --> 00:18:48.400
life has a message

00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.400


00:18:45.850 --> 00:18:51.640
I have DNA you have DNA a banana has DNA

00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:51.640


00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:54.040
in Darwin's day it was not known how

00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:54.040


00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.770
incredibly complex simple so-called

00:18:54.030 --> 00:18:56.770


00:18:54.040 --> 00:18:58.890
simple life is and they thought that

00:18:56.760 --> 00:18:58.890


00:18:56.770 --> 00:19:01.179
maybe simple life could come together

00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.179


00:18:58.890 --> 00:19:02.770
without intelligent intervention and

00:19:01.169 --> 00:19:02.770


00:19:01.179 --> 00:19:04.360
ultimately natural selection could take

00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:04.360


00:19:02.770 --> 00:19:05.890
over it's the theory of macro evolution

00:19:04.350 --> 00:19:05.890


00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:08.590
I'm sure you've heard of it from the goo

00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.590


00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:10.660
duv of the zoo from the infantile to the

00:19:08.580 --> 00:19:10.660


00:19:08.590 --> 00:19:12.970
reptile to the crocodile to the Gentile

00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:12.970


00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:16.150
that's the theory of macro evolution the

00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.150


00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:18.190
problem is is that now we know that this

00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.190


00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:21.040
intelligent life couldn't have come

00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.040


00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:24.400
together by natural laws because we now

00:19:21.030 --> 00:19:24.400


00:19:21.040 --> 00:19:26.200
know that the simplest life has the

00:19:24.390 --> 00:19:26.200


00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:28.840
amount of specified complexity or

00:19:26.190 --> 00:19:28.840


00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:31.120
information and in terms of DNA about

00:19:28.830 --> 00:19:31.120


00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:33.340
thousand complete sets of Encyclopedia

00:19:31.110 --> 00:19:33.340


00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:34.990
Britannica now who is that according to

00:19:33.330 --> 00:19:34.990


00:19:33.340 --> 00:19:37.540
not a Christian not a theist

00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.540


00:19:34.990 --> 00:19:39.070
that's according to Richard Dawkins from

00:19:37.530 --> 00:19:39.070


00:19:37.540 --> 00:19:41.740
his book blind watchmaker I think it's

00:19:39.060 --> 00:19:41.740


00:19:39.070 --> 00:19:43.720
page 116 now to believe that that

00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:43.720


00:19:41.740 --> 00:19:45.280
resulted by natural laws like believing

00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:45.280


00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.920
that the Library of Congress resulted

00:19:45.270 --> 00:19:47.920


00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:49.270
from an explosion in a printing shop see

00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:49.270


00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.600
I don't have enough faith to believe

00:19:49.260 --> 00:19:52.600


00:19:49.270 --> 00:19:55.360
that so life appears to be designed in

00:19:52.590 --> 00:19:55.360


00:19:52.600 --> 00:19:57.280
fact Antony flew who was a atheist a

00:19:55.350 --> 00:19:57.280


00:19:55.360 --> 00:19:59.410
very prominent atheist but recently

00:19:57.270 --> 00:19:59.410


00:19:57.280 --> 00:20:01.420
became a theist or at least a deist as a

00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.420


00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:03.429
result of this evidence said it is

00:20:01.410 --> 00:20:03.429


00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:05.920
impossible for evolution to account for

00:20:03.419 --> 00:20:05.920


00:20:03.429 --> 00:20:07.450
the fact that one single cell can carry

00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:07.450


00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.370
more data than all the volumes of the

00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.370


00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:11.050
Encyclopedia Britannica put together it

00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:11.050


00:20:09.370 --> 00:20:13.780
now seems to me that the findings of

00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:13.780


00:20:11.050 --> 00:20:15.700
more than 50 years of DNA research have

00:20:13.770 --> 00:20:15.700


00:20:13.780 --> 00:20:17.350
provided materials for a new and

00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:17.350


00:20:15.700 --> 00:20:19.419
enormous ly powerful argument from

00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:19.419


00:20:17.350 --> 00:20:21.820
design how am i doing on time Dean five

00:20:19.409 --> 00:20:21.820


00:20:19.419 --> 00:20:27.520
minutes okay thank you

00:20:21.810 --> 00:20:27.520


00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:29.260
it design is so prevalent that even

00:20:27.510 --> 00:20:29.260


00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:31.780
people like Francis Crick the

00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:31.780


00:20:29.260 --> 00:20:34.390
co-discoverer of DNA sir Fred Hoyle who

00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:34.390


00:20:31.780 --> 00:20:37.840
can who coined the term Big Bang in a

00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:37.840


00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:41.170
derisive way are now or were proponents

00:20:37.830 --> 00:20:41.170


00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:43.960
of panspermia seeds everywhere in other

00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.960


00:20:41.170 --> 00:20:46.420
words that life got deposited here by

00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:46.420


00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:48.520
aliens which is just kind of a

00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:48.520


00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:50.290
backhanded way of saying that there's no

00:20:48.510 --> 00:20:50.290


00:20:48.520 --> 00:20:51.850
way we know how life came by natural

00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:51.850


00:20:50.290 --> 00:20:53.710
causes here there must be aliens out

00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:53.710


00:20:51.850 --> 00:20:55.090
there that brought it here which of

00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.090


00:20:53.710 --> 00:20:56.710
course just puts the question off one

00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:56.710


00:20:55.090 --> 00:21:01.600
more step where did the aliens come from

00:20:56.700 --> 00:21:01.600


00:20:56.710 --> 00:21:03.940
right there's a lot more on the design

00:21:01.590 --> 00:21:03.940


00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:07.140
argument but I'm running out of time

00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:07.140


00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:11.200
here let me just give you one quote from

00:21:07.130 --> 00:21:11.200


00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:12.220
Chandra Wickramasinghe who is a student

00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:12.220


00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.380
of Sir Fred Hoyle

00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:14.380


00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:16.570
he said the emergence of life from a

00:21:14.370 --> 00:21:16.570


00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:19.660
primordial soup on earth is merely an

00:21:16.560 --> 00:21:19.660


00:21:16.570 --> 00:21:22.180
article of faith sir Fred Hoyle said a

00:21:19.650 --> 00:21:22.180


00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:24.340
common sense interpretation of the facts

00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:24.340


00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:25.720
suggests that a super intellect has

00:21:24.330 --> 00:21:25.720


00:21:24.340 --> 00:21:27.250
monkeyed with physics as well as

00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:27.250


00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:29.260
chemistry and biology and that there are

00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.260


00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:31.450
no blind forces worth speaking about in

00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:31.450


00:21:29.260 --> 00:21:33.160
nature so cosmological argument

00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.160


00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:36.460
teleological argument now let's move on

00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:36.460


00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:40.480
to the moral argument if there is no God

00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:40.480


00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:45.330
you can't say that decapitating a man on

00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:45.330


00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:48.820
a bus is objectively morally wrong

00:21:45.320 --> 00:21:48.820


00:21:45.330 --> 00:21:52.450
that's just your opinion as Dostoevsky

00:21:48.810 --> 00:21:52.450


00:21:48.820 --> 00:21:54.760
said if there is no God everything is

00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.760


00:21:52.450 --> 00:21:57.130
permitted now I want to be very clear

00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:57.130


00:21:54.760 --> 00:21:59.350
here I'm not saying that a theist can't

00:21:57.120 --> 00:21:59.350


00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:01.030
know morality they do I'm not saying

00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:01.030


00:21:59.350 --> 00:22:03.070
that a theist can't be moral they can

00:22:01.020 --> 00:22:03.070


00:22:01.030 --> 00:22:04.840
I'm not saying that believing in God

00:22:03.060 --> 00:22:04.840


00:22:03.070 --> 00:22:06.220
makes you more moral as Christopher has

00:22:04.830 --> 00:22:06.220


00:22:04.840 --> 00:22:07.750
pointed out and as they say I agree with

00:22:06.210 --> 00:22:07.750


00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:10.450
much of what he writes here I'm not

00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:10.450


00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:12.040
saying that religious people are

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.040


00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:14.620
necessarily better than atheist that's

00:22:12.030 --> 00:22:14.620


00:22:12.040 --> 00:22:17.080
not the argument the argument is is that

00:22:14.610 --> 00:22:17.080


00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:19.030
there's no way to say that a given act

00:22:17.070 --> 00:22:19.030


00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:22.060
is moral or immoral unless there's a

00:22:19.020 --> 00:22:22.060


00:22:19.030 --> 00:22:23.800
standard beyond humanity it's not just

00:22:22.050 --> 00:22:23.800


00:22:22.060 --> 00:22:26.140
my opinion it's not just Christopher's

00:22:23.790 --> 00:22:26.140


00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:28.960
opinion or Mother Teresa's or Hitler's

00:22:26.130 --> 00:22:28.960


00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:32.760
there's a standard beyond everybody that

00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:32.760


00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:34.540
defines what is right that standard is

00:22:32.750 --> 00:22:34.540


00:22:32.760 --> 00:22:37.360
God's very

00:22:34.530 --> 00:22:37.360


00:22:34.540 --> 00:22:39.130
nature since objective moral laws exist

00:22:37.350 --> 00:22:39.130


00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:40.510
there must be an objective moral

00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:40.510


00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:43.510
lawgiver you say no there doesn't need

00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.510


00:22:40.510 --> 00:22:45.220
to be any moral lawgiver if there's a

00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:45.220


00:22:43.510 --> 00:22:47.950
prescription there must be a prescriber

00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:47.950


00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:48.940
if you go to the pharmacist and say here

00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:48.940


00:22:47.950 --> 00:22:50.890
I'd like you to fill this prescription

00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:50.890


00:22:48.940 --> 00:22:53.680
and the pharmacist says who prescribed

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.680


00:22:50.890 --> 00:22:56.770
it you go nobody are you going to get

00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:56.770


00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:58.270
your prescription no now there's again

00:22:56.760 --> 00:22:58.270


00:22:56.770 --> 00:23:00.160
there's a lot more on the moral argument

00:22:58.260 --> 00:23:00.160


00:22:58.270 --> 00:23:03.070
maybe we can talk about a little bit

00:23:00.150 --> 00:23:03.070


00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.320
during the QA but what can we learn from

00:23:03.060 --> 00:23:05.320


00:23:03.070 --> 00:23:07.450
these three arguments for God we can

00:23:05.310 --> 00:23:07.450


00:23:05.320 --> 00:23:08.890
learn from the cosmological argument

00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.890


00:23:07.450 --> 00:23:11.020
that this beam must be spaceless

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.020


00:23:08.890 --> 00:23:14.080
timeless and immaterial why because it

00:23:11.010 --> 00:23:14.080


00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:15.850
created space-time and material it must

00:23:14.070 --> 00:23:15.850


00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:17.770
also be powerful why because it created

00:23:15.840 --> 00:23:17.770


00:23:15.850 --> 00:23:19.270
out of nothing must be personal why

00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:19.270


00:23:17.770 --> 00:23:20.740
because you can't go from a state of

00:23:19.260 --> 00:23:20.740


00:23:19.270 --> 00:23:22.660
non-existence to a state of existence

00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:22.660


00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:25.000
without making a choice and only

00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:25.000


00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:27.340
personal beans make choices impersonal

00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:27.340


00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.740
forces do not it must be intelligent why

00:23:27.330 --> 00:23:29.740


00:23:27.340 --> 00:23:32.380
because it created in such a highly

00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:32.380


00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:34.270
designed razor's edge way it must be

00:23:32.370 --> 00:23:34.270


00:23:32.380 --> 00:23:35.920
moral why do to the moral argument and

00:23:34.260 --> 00:23:35.920


00:23:34.270 --> 00:23:37.750
of course it must be a creator these

00:23:35.910 --> 00:23:37.750


00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:40.240
attributes are the attributes of what

00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:40.240


00:23:37.750 --> 00:23:42.250
the Bible would call God let me sum up

00:23:40.230 --> 00:23:42.250


00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.020
what agnostic astronomer Robert Jastrow

00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.020


00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.730
said after going through evidence like

00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:45.730


00:23:44.020 --> 00:23:47.410
this he said for the scientist who has

00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.410


00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:49.870
lived by his faith in the power of

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.870


00:23:47.410 --> 00:23:51.550
reason remember he's the agnostic the

00:23:49.860 --> 00:23:51.550


00:23:49.870 --> 00:23:52.870
story ends like a bad dream he has

00:23:51.540 --> 00:23:52.870


00:23:51.550 --> 00:23:54.490
scaled the mounts of ignorance he's

00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:54.490


00:23:52.870 --> 00:23:56.500
about to conquer the highest peak as he

00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.500


00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:58.360
pulls himself up with a final rock he's

00:23:56.490 --> 00:23:58.360


00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:02.500
greeted by a band of theologians who've

00:23:58.350 --> 00:24:02.500


00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:05.560
been sitting there for centuries two

00:24:02.490 --> 00:24:05.560


00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:07.840
more minutes take three thank you sir

00:24:05.550 --> 00:24:07.840


00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:09.610
those are the three main arguments now

00:24:07.830 --> 00:24:09.610


00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:11.350
I'd like to say there's four additional

00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:11.350


00:24:09.610 --> 00:24:14.020
truths about the universe that are

00:24:11.340 --> 00:24:14.020


00:24:11.350 --> 00:24:16.600
better explained by theism than by

00:24:14.010 --> 00:24:16.600


00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:18.820
atheism first of all reason in the laws

00:24:16.590 --> 00:24:18.820


00:24:16.600 --> 00:24:21.340
of logic Christopher is a self-described

00:24:18.810 --> 00:24:21.340


00:24:18.820 --> 00:24:23.500
materialist but if atheism is true we

00:24:21.330 --> 00:24:23.500


00:24:21.340 --> 00:24:25.390
have no grounds to know it because

00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:25.390


00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:28.030
reason and thoughts are just chemical

00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:28.030


00:24:25.390 --> 00:24:30.430
reactions in the brain how can you have

00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:30.430


00:24:28.030 --> 00:24:33.670
even Einstein believed this Einstein was

00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:33.670


00:24:30.430 --> 00:24:36.820
a determinist how can you trust what

00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:36.820


00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:38.410
Christopher says if it's just chemical

00:24:36.810 --> 00:24:38.410


00:24:36.820 --> 00:24:40.600
reactions going on in his brain and

00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.600


00:24:38.410 --> 00:24:42.790
chemical reactions in our brain see

00:24:40.590 --> 00:24:42.790


00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:43.900
chemicals don't reason they react now

00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:43.900


00:24:42.790 --> 00:24:45.340
I'm not saying there's no connection

00:24:43.890 --> 00:24:45.340


00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:47.650
between our thinking and chemicals there

00:24:45.330 --> 00:24:47.650


00:24:45.340 --> 00:24:48.490
is but if it's nothing but chemicals how

00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:48.490


00:24:47.650 --> 00:24:50.170
can we trust them

00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.170


00:24:48.490 --> 00:24:53.890
even Darwin recognized this it's called

00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.890


00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:57.250
Darwin's doubt he said if we are just

00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.250


00:24:53.890 --> 00:24:58.870
the product materially of primates why

00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:58.870


00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:00.550
shy to even why should I even trust

00:24:58.860 --> 00:25:00.550


00:24:58.870 --> 00:25:04.450
anything much less my theory of natural

00:25:00.540 --> 00:25:04.450


00:25:00.550 --> 00:25:06.490
selection so the next major reason is

00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.490


00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:07.780
the laws of mathematics science depends

00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:07.780


00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:10.000
on the notion that the universe is

00:25:07.770 --> 00:25:10.000


00:25:07.780 --> 00:25:12.309
rational and mathematical at all levels

00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:12.309


00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.960
but how does rationality and mathematics

00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.960


00:25:12.309 --> 00:25:17.080
arise from randomness how do they come

00:25:13.950 --> 00:25:17.080


00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:20.620
from matter rationality and mathematics

00:25:17.070 --> 00:25:20.620


00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:22.570
are the product of mind not matter so

00:25:20.610 --> 00:25:22.570


00:25:20.620 --> 00:25:24.429
you got reason in the laws of logic the

00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:24.429


00:25:22.570 --> 00:25:26.830
laws of mathematics and then number

00:25:24.419 --> 00:25:26.830


00:25:24.429 --> 00:25:29.500
seven or seven in my list here three in

00:25:26.820 --> 00:25:29.500


00:25:26.830 --> 00:25:33.100
the edition human freedom and the

00:25:29.490 --> 00:25:33.100


00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:34.840
ability to make choices Christopher is

00:25:33.090 --> 00:25:34.840


00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:36.580
somebody who is very concerned about

00:25:34.830 --> 00:25:36.580


00:25:34.840 --> 00:25:39.100
human free and about freedom as I am but

00:25:36.570 --> 00:25:39.100


00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:41.470
again if we are just molecules in motion

00:25:39.090 --> 00:25:41.470


00:25:39.100 --> 00:25:43.480
how do we have human freedom William

00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:43.480


00:25:41.470 --> 00:25:45.309
provine from Cornell he's the

00:25:43.470 --> 00:25:45.309


00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:47.200
materialist of Darwinist he points out

00:25:45.299 --> 00:25:47.200


00:25:45.309 --> 00:25:51.600
that we don't have any human freedom if

00:25:47.190 --> 00:25:51.600


00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:54.190
all we are is molecules in motion now

00:25:51.590 --> 00:25:54.190


00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:59.100
Christopher ought not scold anybody for

00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:59.100


00:25:54.190 --> 00:26:00.960
being a snake handling bible-thumping

00:25:59.090 --> 00:26:00.960


00:25:59.100 --> 00:26:03.370
fundamentalist Preacher

00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:03.370


00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:05.770
because according to his own worldview

00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:05.770


00:26:03.370 --> 00:26:07.410
that person is that way because these

00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:07.410


00:26:05.770 --> 00:26:11.140
are just chemicals going on in his brain

00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.140


00:26:07.410 --> 00:26:14.110
neither could you say that Hitler had

00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:14.110


00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:16.660
done anything wrong if it's just

00:26:14.100 --> 00:26:16.660


00:26:14.110 --> 00:26:19.480
chemicals going on in his brain I mean

00:26:16.650 --> 00:26:19.480


00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:22.570
what is the murder molecule how much

00:26:19.470 --> 00:26:22.570


00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:24.070
does justice weigh these are questions

00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:24.070


00:26:22.570 --> 00:26:26.290
that have no answer in a materialistic

00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:26.290


00:26:24.070 --> 00:26:28.390
worldview but that is Christopher's

00:26:26.280 --> 00:26:28.390


00:26:26.290 --> 00:26:30.520
worldview it seems to me that it makes

00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:30.520


00:26:28.390 --> 00:26:33.400
much more sense to say that reason and

00:26:30.510 --> 00:26:33.400


00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:37.390
laws of logic mathematics and human

00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:37.390


00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:39.670
freedom come from a great mind that

00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:39.670


00:26:37.390 --> 00:26:42.640
granted us these immaterial realities

00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:42.640


00:26:39.670 --> 00:26:44.110
the final argument is consciousness do

00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:44.110


00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:46.360
you know that a heap of sand and a human

00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:46.360


00:26:44.110 --> 00:26:48.429
brain have the same elements why are

00:26:46.350 --> 00:26:48.429


00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:51.220
some carbon-based molecules conscious

00:26:48.419 --> 00:26:51.220


00:26:48.429 --> 00:26:53.070
and others are not materialists have no

00:26:51.210 --> 00:26:53.070


00:26:51.220 --> 00:26:55.120
answer for this Daniel Dennett another

00:26:53.060 --> 00:26:55.120


00:26:53.070 --> 00:26:56.740
person who would agree with Christopher

00:26:55.110 --> 00:26:56.740


00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:58.410
on many things he's a materialist says

00:26:56.730 --> 00:26:58.410


00:26:56.740 --> 00:27:01.590
that consciousness is in a

00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:01.590


00:26:58.410 --> 00:27:03.030
lucien because he's a materialist you're

00:27:01.580 --> 00:27:03.030


00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:04.890
not really witnessing right net this

00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:04.890


00:27:03.030 --> 00:27:07.230
right now you it's just an illusion

00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.230


00:27:04.890 --> 00:27:10.560
now one wonders if he was conscious when

00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.560


00:27:07.230 --> 00:27:12.390
he wrote this but again there is no

00:27:10.550 --> 00:27:12.390


00:27:10.560 --> 00:27:14.310
explanation for this in an atheistic

00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:14.310


00:27:12.390 --> 00:27:15.870
worldview now I have a couple other

00:27:14.300 --> 00:27:15.870


00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:17.400
arguments on the bench but I don't have

00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:17.400


00:27:15.870 --> 00:27:19.740
time to get to them let me just sum up

00:27:17.390 --> 00:27:19.740


00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.840
in one minute we need to take all this

00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:21.840


00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:23.160
data in context not just one argument

00:27:21.830 --> 00:27:23.160


00:27:21.840 --> 00:27:25.950
but all of them what is the best

00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:25.950


00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:27.360
explanation Christopher has to explain

00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:27.360


00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:29.610
these eight truths about the universe

00:27:27.350 --> 00:27:29.610


00:27:27.360 --> 00:27:30.960
from an atheistic perspective he must

00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:30.960


00:27:29.610 --> 00:27:33.000
explain how the universal rose from

00:27:30.950 --> 00:27:33.000


00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.220
nothing how extreme fine-tuning and

00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:35.220


00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.170
design rose from chaos how life arose

00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:37.170


00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:38.550
from non-life how morality arose from

00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:38.550


00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:40.950
materials how reason in the laws of

00:27:38.540 --> 00:27:40.950


00:27:38.550 --> 00:27:43.260
logic arose from matter how mind arose

00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:43.260


00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:45.240
from mud how mathematics arose from

00:27:43.250 --> 00:27:45.240


00:27:43.260 --> 00:27:47.640
molecules how human freedom arose from

00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:47.640


00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:50.280
blind repetitive forces and how

00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:50.280


00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.050
consciousness arose from chemicals if he

00:27:50.270 --> 00:27:52.050


00:27:50.280 --> 00:27:53.610
can't give evidence to explain these

00:27:52.040 --> 00:27:53.610


00:27:52.050 --> 00:27:56.220
truths about reality from an atheistic

00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:56.220


00:27:53.610 --> 00:27:59.130
perspective if he's just going to state

00:27:56.210 --> 00:27:59.130


00:27:56.220 --> 00:28:01.740
unsupported speculative possibilities

00:27:59.120 --> 00:28:01.740


00:27:59.130 --> 00:28:05.790
that rely on faith then I think theism

00:28:01.730 --> 00:28:05.790


00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:08.960
is a more reasonable worldview thank you

00:28:05.780 --> 00:28:08.960


00:28:05.790 --> 00:28:08.960
for your attention I appreciate

00:28:23.270 --> 00:28:23.270


00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:28.450
Thank You dr. Turk will not have 20

00:28:26.070 --> 00:28:28.450


00:28:26.080 --> 00:28:30.720
minutes from mr. hitches at his opening

00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.720


00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:30.720
State

00:28:40.830 --> 00:28:40.830


00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:47.480
Thank You mr. chairman thank you ladies

00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:47.480


00:28:43.970 --> 00:28:49.700
and gentlemen for coming thank you dr.

00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:49.700


00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:51.890
turret for that very spirited opening to

00:28:49.690 --> 00:28:51.890


00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:54.380
the evening I should say first it's a

00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.380


00:28:51.890 --> 00:28:58.220
great honor to be in the capital of the

00:28:54.370 --> 00:28:58.220


00:28:54.380 --> 00:29:00.970
great state of Virginia I'm a in a small

00:28:58.210 --> 00:29:00.970


00:28:58.220 --> 00:29:06.110
way a biographer of Thomas Jefferson and

00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.110


00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:08.000
his memorial as you know omitted

00:29:06.100 --> 00:29:08.000


00:29:06.110 --> 00:29:09.710
dimension of his presidencies and vice

00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:09.710


00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.200
presidencies and preferred to focus on

00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:12.200


00:29:09.710 --> 00:29:13.910
his work at the University and his

00:29:12.190 --> 00:29:13.910


00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:16.280
authorship of the Virginia statute on

00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:16.280


00:29:13.910 --> 00:29:18.410
religious freedom which is the embryo

00:29:16.270 --> 00:29:18.410


00:29:16.280 --> 00:29:21.080
and basis of the First Amendment to our

00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.080


00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.160
Constitution which makes this the only

00:29:21.070 --> 00:29:22.160


00:29:21.080 --> 00:29:25.460
country in the world that has ever

00:29:22.150 --> 00:29:25.460


00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:28.370
decided that God and constitutional

00:29:25.450 --> 00:29:28.370


00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:30.260
matters should be separated and it's in

00:29:28.360 --> 00:29:30.260


00:29:28.370 --> 00:29:34.340
defense partly of a civilizational

00:29:30.250 --> 00:29:34.340


00:29:30.260 --> 00:29:36.710
impulse that I rise this evening to

00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:36.710


00:29:34.340 --> 00:29:39.980
satirize the idea that we're here by

00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:39.980


00:29:36.710 --> 00:29:42.470
somebody else's permission and owe that

00:29:39.970 --> 00:29:42.470


00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:46.580
person an explanation which is what it

00:29:42.460 --> 00:29:46.580


00:29:42.470 --> 00:29:50.660
is to be atheist if not a dears to say

00:29:46.570 --> 00:29:50.660


00:29:46.580 --> 00:29:53.120
Lyrae I almost never watch television

00:29:50.650 --> 00:29:53.120


00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:55.520
and I'm usually glad that I do but now

00:29:53.110 --> 00:29:55.520


00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:59.630
I'm glad that I sometimes I'm forced by

00:29:55.510 --> 00:29:59.630


00:29:55.520 --> 00:30:01.340
my daughter to watch Family Guy because

00:29:59.620 --> 00:30:01.340


00:29:59.630 --> 00:30:04.070
you may possibly have seen the moment

00:30:01.330 --> 00:30:04.070


00:30:01.340 --> 00:30:05.390
when the chubby father comes down in the

00:30:04.060 --> 00:30:05.390


00:30:04.070 --> 00:30:05.920
morning and looks at his cereal in the

00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:05.920


00:30:05.390 --> 00:30:08.360
bowl

00:30:05.910 --> 00:30:08.360


00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:11.720
accepting your some one of your more

00:30:08.350 --> 00:30:11.720


00:30:08.360 --> 00:30:13.890
sophisticated challenges and he says it

00:30:11.710 --> 00:30:13.890


00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:18.140
says woo

00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:18.140


00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:18.140
and it's always says there's a Cheerios

00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:20.289


00:30:20.299 --> 00:30:26.850
but I accept the ontological challenge

00:30:22.850 --> 00:30:26.850


00:30:22.860 --> 00:30:29.220
and I accept it in this way the answer

00:30:26.840 --> 00:30:29.220


00:30:26.850 --> 00:30:31.049
to the question which with with which we

00:30:29.210 --> 00:30:31.049


00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:33.570
confront ourselves tonight or are

00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.570


00:30:31.049 --> 00:30:41.309
confronted if you prefer does God exist

00:30:33.560 --> 00:30:41.309


00:30:33.570 --> 00:30:43.590
is to me yes it does it must do it must

00:30:41.299 --> 00:30:43.590


00:30:41.309 --> 00:30:46.980
do because it is so real to those who do

00:30:43.580 --> 00:30:46.980


00:30:43.590 --> 00:30:50.280
believe in it there are people of whom

00:30:46.970 --> 00:30:50.280


00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:52.260
it may be said that for them God does

00:30:50.270 --> 00:30:52.260


00:30:50.280 --> 00:30:54.900
exist I've become perfectly persuaded of

00:30:52.250 --> 00:30:54.900


00:30:52.260 --> 00:30:56.669
this by now there is no form of

00:30:54.890 --> 00:30:56.669


00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:59.340
persuasion that would make me assent to

00:30:56.659 --> 00:30:59.340


00:30:56.669 --> 00:31:03.090
this proposition some of us are born we

00:30:59.330 --> 00:31:03.090


00:30:59.340 --> 00:31:05.880
are born to in answer to Blaise Pascal's

00:31:03.080 --> 00:31:05.880


00:31:03.090 --> 00:31:08.010
own problem the one that made him write

00:31:05.870 --> 00:31:08.010


00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:10.429
his plan say and addressed them to those

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.429


00:31:08.010 --> 00:31:12.690
who are so made that they cannot believe

00:31:10.419 --> 00:31:12.690


00:31:10.429 --> 00:31:14.040
those of us to whom almost everything

00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:14.040


00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:16.740
that dr. Troy just said would be the

00:31:14.030 --> 00:31:16.740


00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:18.570
mere equivalent of white noise I suppose

00:31:16.730 --> 00:31:18.570


00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:20.700
it's my job deceive you to explain on to

00:31:18.560 --> 00:31:20.700


00:31:18.570 --> 00:31:23.270
logically how that is the case perhaps

00:31:20.690 --> 00:31:23.270


00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:27.540
I'll do it by a force of example

00:31:23.260 --> 00:31:27.540


00:31:23.270 --> 00:31:30.030
recently very recently that as little go

00:31:27.530 --> 00:31:30.030


00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:32.880
in time as last year the Vatican

00:31:30.020 --> 00:31:32.880


00:31:30.030 --> 00:31:37.110
announced that limbo the destination of

00:31:32.870 --> 00:31:37.110


00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:41.750
the unbaptized child soul no longer

00:31:37.100 --> 00:31:41.750


00:31:37.110 --> 00:31:41.750
exists there is no such place

00:31:41.750 --> 00:31:41.750


00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:47.880
Saint Augustine was in error it appears

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.880


00:31:44.490 --> 00:31:49.260
in sending so many children at least the

00:31:47.870 --> 00:31:49.260


00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:52.230
souls of so many are baptized children

00:31:49.250 --> 00:31:52.230


00:31:49.260 --> 00:31:54.720
to this destination for so long

00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:54.720


00:31:52.230 --> 00:31:58.410
among the comments that I heard about

00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:58.410


00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:00.900
this one the mildest actually was that

00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:00.900


00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:04.470
of a woman raised in the Catholic faith

00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:04.470


00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:06.270
whose child had died before baptism

00:32:04.460 --> 00:32:06.270


00:32:04.470 --> 00:32:08.490
could take place who had for many years

00:32:06.260 --> 00:32:08.490


00:32:06.270 --> 00:32:10.530
believed that that's where her own

00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.530


00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:12.000
baptized child had gone and she said

00:32:10.520 --> 00:32:12.000


00:32:10.530 --> 00:32:14.669
they can't tell me that place doesn't

00:32:11.990 --> 00:32:14.669


00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.220
exist it's been as real to me as

00:32:14.659 --> 00:32:17.220


00:32:14.669 --> 00:32:19.650
anything possibly could be for so long

00:32:17.210 --> 00:32:19.650


00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:22.650
they have no right to tell me now that

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.650


00:32:19.650 --> 00:32:25.710
this no longer is it ontologically limbo

00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.710


00:32:22.650 --> 00:32:27.570
exists for those who believe in it just

00:32:25.700 --> 00:32:27.570


00:32:25.710 --> 00:32:30.570
as God does I'm not here to deny

00:32:27.560 --> 00:32:30.570


00:32:27.570 --> 00:32:33.360
that it's only a few decades now since

00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:33.360


00:32:30.570 --> 00:32:34.920
the rival church Church of Rome the

00:32:33.350 --> 00:32:34.920


00:32:33.360 --> 00:32:37.290
Church of England announced really no

00:32:34.910 --> 00:32:37.290


00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:39.480
one actually goes to hell it could be

00:32:37.280 --> 00:32:39.480


00:32:37.290 --> 00:32:42.630
that after you die or forbidden God's

00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:42.630


00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:45.960
grace but there's no real place of

00:32:42.620 --> 00:32:45.960


00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:48.870
eternal unending infinite torture and

00:32:45.950 --> 00:32:48.870


00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:50.870
torment with which those who claim the

00:32:48.860 --> 00:32:50.870


00:32:48.870 --> 00:32:53.850
grace of God in the redemption of Jesus

00:32:50.860 --> 00:32:53.850


00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:55.800
made a living for so many years and how

00:32:53.840 --> 00:32:55.800


00:32:53.850 --> 00:32:58.980
do they make their living by lying to

00:32:55.790 --> 00:32:58.980


00:32:55.800 --> 00:33:01.280
children think of it hundreds and

00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.280


00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:04.980
hundreds of years of people proudly

00:33:01.270 --> 00:33:04.980


00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:06.840
earning their keep by lying to children

00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:06.840


00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.610
and terrifying them and saying that

00:33:06.830 --> 00:33:08.610


00:33:06.840 --> 00:33:12.870
because they could do that they were

00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:12.870


00:33:08.610 --> 00:33:15.570
morally superior to us reason common

00:33:12.860 --> 00:33:15.570


00:33:12.870 --> 00:33:19.830
sense decent ordinary decency rebels

00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:19.830


00:33:15.570 --> 00:33:23.430
against this kind of mind forged manacle

00:33:19.820 --> 00:33:23.430


00:33:19.830 --> 00:33:25.500
however charmingly or humorously it's

00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:25.500


00:33:23.430 --> 00:33:26.700
expressed but hell exists in the minds

00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:26.700


00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:29.430
of several people I've spoken to you

00:33:26.690 --> 00:33:29.430


00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:32.790
just today on this campus in the in the

00:33:29.420 --> 00:33:32.790


00:33:29.430 --> 00:33:34.710
intervals of other conversations for

00:33:32.780 --> 00:33:34.710


00:33:32.790 --> 00:33:37.650
them it's real and I don't say that it's

00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:37.650


00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:39.840
not what I want to show is that it can

00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:39.840


00:33:37.650 --> 00:33:42.510
if it does exist nonetheless be

00:33:39.830 --> 00:33:42.510


00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:45.210
abolished like many other mine forged

00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:45.210


00:33:42.510 --> 00:33:47.790
manacles and manmade tyrannies that

00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.790


00:33:45.210 --> 00:33:51.060
confront us and in fact that this belief

00:33:47.780 --> 00:33:51.060


00:33:47.790 --> 00:33:52.860
in a supreme and unalterable tyranny is

00:33:51.050 --> 00:33:52.860


00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:55.530
the oldest enemy of our species the

00:33:52.850 --> 00:33:55.530


00:33:52.860 --> 00:33:58.110
oldest enemy of our intellectual freedom

00:33:55.520 --> 00:33:58.110


00:33:55.530 --> 00:33:59.910
and our moral autonomy and must be met

00:33:58.100 --> 00:33:59.910


00:33:58.110 --> 00:34:02.700
and must be challenged and must be

00:33:59.900 --> 00:34:02.700


00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:07.860
overthrown I want to argue for nothing

00:34:02.690 --> 00:34:07.860


00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:09.390
less than that it's actually rather

00:34:07.850 --> 00:34:09.390


00:34:07.860 --> 00:34:10.560
wonderful isn't it the religious

00:34:09.380 --> 00:34:10.560


00:34:09.390 --> 00:34:13.800
authorities used to say they were

00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:13.800


00:34:10.560 --> 00:34:15.480
infallible say just take the last Pope

00:34:13.790 --> 00:34:15.480


00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:17.010
just the last I know I'm not talking

00:34:15.470 --> 00:34:17.010


00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.590
with the Catholic apologist this evening

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.590


00:34:17.010 --> 00:34:21.090
but nonetheless the church when people

00:34:19.580 --> 00:34:21.090


00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:23.190
say the church they know which one they

00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:23.190


00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:24.750
mean they mean the one in Rome the one

00:34:23.180 --> 00:34:24.750


00:34:23.190 --> 00:34:27.060
where when Stephen Hawking was invited

00:34:24.740 --> 00:34:27.060


00:34:24.750 --> 00:34:28.260
and was asked at the conference on the

00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:28.260


00:34:27.060 --> 00:34:30.600
church and science is there anything

00:34:28.250 --> 00:34:30.600


00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:31.740
he'd like to see in Rome while he was

00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:31.740


00:34:30.600 --> 00:34:34.410
there he said he'd like to see the

00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:34.410


00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:36.990
records of the trial of Galileo

00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:36.990


00:34:34.410 --> 00:34:40.040
don't please be invoking mr. Hawking by

00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:40.040


00:34:36.990 --> 00:34:40.040
the way as if he was a deist

00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:40.040


00:34:40.050 --> 00:34:46.560
the last pope just in the last decade of

00:34:44.090 --> 00:34:46.560


00:34:44.100 --> 00:34:48.929
his tenure apologized he said we were

00:34:46.550 --> 00:34:48.929


00:34:46.560 --> 00:34:50.460
wrong about the Jewish Question we

00:34:48.919 --> 00:34:50.460


00:34:48.929 --> 00:34:51.899
probably shouldn't have said for so long

00:34:50.450 --> 00:34:51.899


00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:54.899
the Jews were responsible for the murder

00:34:51.889 --> 00:34:54.899


00:34:51.899 --> 00:34:57.260
of Christ we were probably wrong in

00:34:54.889 --> 00:34:57.260


00:34:54.899 --> 00:34:59.850
forced conversion of the peoples of the

00:34:57.250 --> 00:34:59.850


00:34:57.260 --> 00:35:01.350
Indies as they were thought of the

00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:01.350


00:34:59.850 --> 00:35:04.560
Isthmus and the Southern Cone of our

00:35:01.340 --> 00:35:04.560


00:35:01.350 --> 00:35:06.150
hemisphere we were certainly wrong we

00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:06.150


00:35:04.560 --> 00:35:08.700
owe an apology to the Muslims for the

00:35:06.140 --> 00:35:08.700


00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:11.360
atrocities of the Crusades we are an

00:35:08.690 --> 00:35:11.360


00:35:08.700 --> 00:35:14.340
apology to the Eastern Orthodox churches

00:35:11.350 --> 00:35:14.340


00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:15.780
for the incredible butchery to which

00:35:14.330 --> 00:35:15.780


00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:18.150
they our fellow Christians were

00:35:15.770 --> 00:35:18.150


00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:19.740
subjected by us the Roman Catholic and

00:35:18.140 --> 00:35:19.740


00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:22.320
we probably only polled you to the

00:35:19.730 --> 00:35:22.320


00:35:19.740 --> 00:35:23.610
Protestants for saying and so many awful

00:35:22.310 --> 00:35:23.610


00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.800
things about them and torturing and

00:35:23.600 --> 00:35:25.800


00:35:23.610 --> 00:35:27.900
burning and killing them too so having

00:35:25.790 --> 00:35:27.900


00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.540
now said we were completely wrong and

00:35:27.890 --> 00:35:30.540


00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:32.430
completely cruel and completely sadistic

00:35:30.530 --> 00:35:32.430


00:35:30.540 --> 00:35:34.440
and completely violent and retarded

00:35:32.420 --> 00:35:34.440


00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:36.180
human civilization for that many

00:35:34.430 --> 00:35:36.180


00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:36.830
centuries in that many countries and

00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:36.830


00:35:36.180 --> 00:35:39.240
continents

00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:39.240


00:35:36.830 --> 00:35:41.430
we're quit and now we can go back to

00:35:39.230 --> 00:35:41.430


00:35:39.240 --> 00:35:44.070
being a fallible all over again there

00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:44.070


00:35:41.430 --> 00:35:46.440
are there are people who on faith will

00:35:44.060 --> 00:35:46.440


00:35:44.070 --> 00:35:49.290
accept being spoken to in that tone of

00:35:46.430 --> 00:35:49.290


00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:51.510
voice and in that way but I ladies and

00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.510


00:35:49.290 --> 00:35:52.800
gentlemen and not one of them and I

00:35:51.500 --> 00:35:52.800


00:35:51.510 --> 00:35:55.200
don't think there's any form of

00:35:52.790 --> 00:35:55.200


00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.840
persuasion that should allow you to be

00:35:55.190 --> 00:35:57.840


00:35:55.200 --> 00:36:02.970
spoken to as if you were serfs or slaves

00:35:57.830 --> 00:36:02.970


00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:05.070
either proceeding with the ontology with

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.070


00:36:02.970 --> 00:36:07.650
which I began the Aquinas point that if

00:36:05.060 --> 00:36:07.650


00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:12.660
you can conceive of something whether

00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:12.660


00:36:07.650 --> 00:36:14.250
it's a ghost a phantasm or deity if you

00:36:12.650 --> 00:36:14.250


00:36:12.660 --> 00:36:17.370
can conceive of something it is in some

00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:17.370


00:36:14.250 --> 00:36:19.260
sense real if it's real in your mind and

00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:19.260


00:36:17.370 --> 00:36:21.180
showing with the obvious fallacy that

00:36:19.250 --> 00:36:21.180


00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:23.010
has always attended that is it

00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:23.010


00:36:21.180 --> 00:36:24.720
nonetheless possible for an atheist to

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:24.720


00:36:23.010 --> 00:36:26.160
say it proclaimed atheists to say as I

00:36:24.710 --> 00:36:26.160


00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:28.590
do

00:36:26.150 --> 00:36:28.590


00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:31.940
proclaim myself to be that God

00:36:28.580 --> 00:36:31.940


00:36:28.590 --> 00:36:34.800
positively can be said not to exist no

00:36:31.930 --> 00:36:34.800


00:36:31.940 --> 00:36:36.930
it's a very common misunderstanding

00:36:34.790 --> 00:36:36.930


00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:40.050
about my fraternity sorority I'll just

00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.050


00:36:36.930 --> 00:36:42.270
take a moment to clear it up the atheist

00:36:40.040 --> 00:36:42.270


00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:44.550
says no persuasive argument for the

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:44.550


00:36:42.270 --> 00:36:47.820
existence of God has ever been advanced

00:36:44.540 --> 00:36:47.820


00:36:44.550 --> 00:36:51.390
or adduced without convincing rebuttal

00:36:47.810 --> 00:36:51.390


00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:54.120
that no argument in favor stats or has

00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:54.120


00:36:51.390 --> 00:36:57.630
been found to stand the test of

00:36:54.110 --> 00:36:57.630


00:36:54.120 --> 00:36:59.820
we cannot say that we know that there

00:36:57.620 --> 00:36:59.820


00:36:57.630 --> 00:37:02.000
could be no such entity among other

00:36:59.810 --> 00:37:02.000


00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:04.790
things we are too reverent of the

00:37:01.990 --> 00:37:04.790


00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.890
extraordinary time of discovery

00:37:04.780 --> 00:37:07.890


00:37:04.790 --> 00:37:09.870
innovation pushing back of the frontiers

00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:09.870


00:37:07.890 --> 00:37:11.400
of knowledge and and understanding

00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:11.400


00:37:09.870 --> 00:37:14.340
that's taking place just in our own time

00:37:11.390 --> 00:37:14.340


00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:18.960
to make any such remark but by saying

00:37:14.330 --> 00:37:18.960


00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:22.170
this we say I think quite a lot there is

00:37:18.950 --> 00:37:22.170


00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:25.350
no valid or coherent or consistent

00:37:22.160 --> 00:37:25.350


00:37:22.170 --> 00:37:27.150
argument that would not work if it comes

00:37:25.340 --> 00:37:27.150


00:37:25.350 --> 00:37:29.430
to that for the existence of any God now

00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:29.430


00:37:27.150 --> 00:37:32.550
I noticed it was a by a slight work of

00:37:29.420 --> 00:37:32.550


00:37:29.430 --> 00:37:35.730
elision a bit of tap dancing there the

00:37:32.540 --> 00:37:35.730


00:37:32.550 --> 00:37:37.650
doctor turret went from being a deist to

00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:37.650


00:37:35.730 --> 00:37:40.500
a theist and then from being a theist to

00:37:37.640 --> 00:37:40.500


00:37:37.650 --> 00:37:42.270
a Christian now I know he does not

00:37:40.490 --> 00:37:42.270


00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:45.660
believe in the existence of the Sun God

00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.660


00:37:42.270 --> 00:37:47.600
raah I'm practically certain he doesn't

00:37:45.650 --> 00:37:47.600


00:37:45.660 --> 00:37:50.340
believe in the existence of Zeus if

00:37:47.590 --> 00:37:50.340


00:37:47.600 --> 00:37:52.110
you'll pick up a copy of my portable

00:37:50.330 --> 00:37:52.110


00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:55.020
atheist a selection of the finest

00:37:52.100 --> 00:37:55.020


00:37:52.110 --> 00:37:56.880
writings by non-believers Charlie isn't

00:37:55.010 --> 00:37:56.880


00:37:55.020 --> 00:38:01.950
just turn to the three pages where

00:37:56.870 --> 00:38:01.950


00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:04.650
Menken HL Mencken lists the easiest to

00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.650


00:38:01.950 --> 00:38:06.270
name 3000 gods that used to be

00:38:04.640 --> 00:38:06.270


00:38:04.650 --> 00:38:09.270
worshipped and that no longer a hell to

00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:09.270


00:38:06.270 --> 00:38:12.360
exist by anybody you'll spare me the

00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:12.360


00:38:09.270 --> 00:38:15.180
trouble of reading them out no he thinks

00:38:12.350 --> 00:38:15.180


00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:17.190
he doesn't just know dr. Torah that

00:38:15.170 --> 00:38:17.190


00:38:15.180 --> 00:38:19.380
there is a God he knows which one is the

00:38:17.180 --> 00:38:19.380


00:38:17.190 --> 00:38:21.000
right one from a potentially infinite

00:38:19.370 --> 00:38:21.000


00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:22.890
list actually from the list that's as

00:38:20.990 --> 00:38:22.890


00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.900
long as the number of people there are

00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.900


00:38:22.890 --> 00:38:26.820
or have ever been in the human species

00:38:24.890 --> 00:38:26.820


00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:29.250
because if you ever argue with a theist

00:38:26.810 --> 00:38:29.250


00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:31.050
or a deus as I do every day you'll find

00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:31.050


00:38:29.250 --> 00:38:33.450
they all believe in a God of their very

00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:33.450


00:38:31.050 --> 00:38:35.820
own do they often say a personal God

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.820


00:38:33.450 --> 00:38:38.670
indeed they often say a personal Savior

00:38:35.810 --> 00:38:38.670


00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:41.610
so out of out of what are we really a

00:38:38.660 --> 00:38:41.610


00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:44.700
concept that applies to all of us out of

00:38:41.600 --> 00:38:44.700


00:38:41.610 --> 00:38:47.790
nothing but wish thinking and nonsense

00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:47.790


00:38:44.700 --> 00:38:50.930
and fear and ignorance and above all and

00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:50.930


00:38:47.790 --> 00:38:54.000
I'm not quitting on this point servility

00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:54.000


00:38:50.930 --> 00:38:55.980
everyone in this room is an atheist

00:38:53.990 --> 00:38:55.980


00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.770
everyone can name a God in which they do

00:38:55.970 --> 00:38:58.770


00:38:55.980 --> 00:39:00.150
not believe let them advance the case

00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:00.150


00:38:58.770 --> 00:39:03.510
that the one in which they believe is

00:39:00.140 --> 00:39:03.510


00:39:00.150 --> 00:39:05.190
the superior one dr. torrid be the first

00:39:03.500 --> 00:39:05.190


00:39:03.510 --> 00:39:07.920
person I've ever met to do that

00:39:05.180 --> 00:39:07.920


00:39:05.190 --> 00:39:11.069
convincingly this evening and I will

00:39:07.910 --> 00:39:11.069


00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:14.910
show him due respect I don't think the

00:39:11.059 --> 00:39:14.910


00:39:11.069 --> 00:39:16.920
task can actually be undertaken now the

00:39:14.900 --> 00:39:16.920


00:39:14.910 --> 00:39:19.380
same trap dancing hopes you will not

00:39:16.910 --> 00:39:19.380


00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:22.500
notice but deism and theism are two

00:39:19.370 --> 00:39:22.500


00:39:19.380 --> 00:39:24.630
quite different things the Deus argument

00:39:22.490 --> 00:39:24.630


00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:27.599
says that there is so much order

00:39:24.620 --> 00:39:27.599


00:39:24.630 --> 00:39:29.609
apparent in nature and in the cosmos in

00:39:27.589 --> 00:39:29.609


00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:32.599
the universe that it might be unwise to

00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.599


00:39:29.609 --> 00:39:35.849
assume that such order has no-one

00:39:32.589 --> 00:39:35.849


00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:37.500
interested in ordering or design that

00:39:35.839 --> 00:39:37.500


00:39:35.849 --> 00:39:41.160
assumption might be a nun might be not

00:39:37.490 --> 00:39:41.160


00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:43.920
Safeway the philosopher Paley in his

00:39:41.150 --> 00:39:43.920


00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:45.660
natural theology said desire implies a

00:39:43.910 --> 00:39:45.660


00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:48.240
designer he came up with the very famous

00:39:45.650 --> 00:39:48.240


00:39:45.660 --> 00:39:50.760
image of the watch if you come across

00:39:48.230 --> 00:39:50.760


00:39:48.240 --> 00:39:53.490
watch if you're a primitive tribes

00:39:50.750 --> 00:39:53.490


00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:55.109
person in the Sahara you may not know

00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:55.109


00:39:53.490 --> 00:39:56.970
what it's for but you know there's not a

00:39:55.099 --> 00:39:56.970


00:39:55.109 --> 00:39:59.930
rock or a vegetable you know it has a

00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.930


00:39:56.970 --> 00:40:02.700
purpose and someone made it that way

00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.700


00:39:59.930 --> 00:40:04.319
until quite recently that was the

00:40:02.690 --> 00:40:04.319


00:40:02.700 --> 00:40:07.079
default position of most intelligent

00:40:04.309 --> 00:40:07.079


00:40:04.319 --> 00:40:09.089
people including mr. Jefferson who

00:40:07.069 --> 00:40:09.089


00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.509
despite his intermittent atheism my

00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:12.509


00:40:09.089 --> 00:40:15.109
judgment was a theist I'm so sorry it

00:40:12.499 --> 00:40:15.109


00:40:12.509 --> 00:40:18.779
was a deist was a deist he would debate

00:40:15.099 --> 00:40:18.779


00:40:15.109 --> 00:40:22.079
with among the many skills he had was a

00:40:18.769 --> 00:40:22.079


00:40:18.779 --> 00:40:22.980
very advanced level of paleontology he

00:40:22.069 --> 00:40:22.980


00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:24.539
would debate with the greatest

00:40:22.970 --> 00:40:24.539


00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:27.660
paleontologists of his time the Cantor

00:40:24.529 --> 00:40:27.660


00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:30.660
before how how comes it how can it be

00:40:27.650 --> 00:40:30.660


00:40:27.660 --> 00:40:32.609
that we find seashells so high on the

00:40:30.650 --> 00:40:32.609


00:40:30.660 --> 00:40:35.190
mountains of Virginia how can this be

00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:35.190


00:40:32.609 --> 00:40:36.839
not even the most intelligent people of

00:40:35.180 --> 00:40:36.839


00:40:35.190 --> 00:40:39.089
that day and it's very recent it's an

00:40:36.829 --> 00:40:39.089


00:40:36.839 --> 00:40:41.009
instant in historical time had any idea

00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:41.009


00:40:39.089 --> 00:40:43.950
how that could be there isn't anyone in

00:40:40.999 --> 00:40:43.950


00:40:41.009 --> 00:40:47.240
this room who wasn't educated and

00:40:43.940 --> 00:40:47.240


00:40:43.950 --> 00:40:50.220
brought up knowing exactly how that is

00:40:47.230 --> 00:40:50.220


00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:51.990
it's just a shame that Jefferson and

00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:51.990


00:40:50.220 --> 00:40:54.480
many other intelligent and humane and

00:40:51.980 --> 00:40:54.480


00:40:51.990 --> 00:40:57.599
will education literate people just

00:40:54.470 --> 00:40:57.599


00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:00.420
couldn't see that far he wasn't to know

00:40:57.589 --> 00:41:00.420


00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:02.940
though Darwin was born in his day on the

00:41:00.410 --> 00:41:02.940


00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:04.529
same day actually in 1809 as Abraham

00:41:02.930 --> 00:41:04.529


00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:06.240
Lincoln the very same day the two great

00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.240


00:41:04.529 --> 00:41:08.609
emancipator's Darwin being in my

00:41:06.230 --> 00:41:08.609


00:41:06.240 --> 00:41:11.099
judgment the greater of the two now we

00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:11.099


00:41:08.609 --> 00:41:14.119
know we know this proposition to be true

00:41:11.089 --> 00:41:14.119


00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:16.230
the proposition that was ridiculed so so

00:41:14.109 --> 00:41:16.230


00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:20.069
pathetically I have to say I thought by

00:41:16.220 --> 00:41:20.069


00:41:16.230 --> 00:41:21.790
dr. Tory there is no explanation for the

00:41:20.059 --> 00:41:21.790


00:41:20.069 --> 00:41:24.010
origins of our species

00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:24.010


00:41:21.790 --> 00:41:26.170
for the origins of our cosmos for the

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.170


00:41:24.010 --> 00:41:30.100
origins of our globe itself there is not

00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:30.100


00:41:26.170 --> 00:41:33.730
one explanation left which requires the

00:41:30.090 --> 00:41:33.730


00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:36.700
existence of a deus ex machina in every

00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:36.700


00:41:33.730 --> 00:41:40.510
case we have a better or sufficient

00:41:36.690 --> 00:41:40.510


00:41:36.700 --> 00:41:42.160
explanation I think that assertion of

00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:42.160


00:41:40.510 --> 00:41:43.920
mine will stand any challenge this

00:41:42.150 --> 00:41:43.920


00:41:42.160 --> 00:41:47.800
evening I'm looking forward to hearing

00:41:43.910 --> 00:41:47.800


00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:49.870
some more of them of course jawan used

00:41:47.790 --> 00:41:49.870


00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:54.160
creationist images he actually set out

00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:54.160


00:41:49.870 --> 00:41:56.620
to vindicate Paley's theology thought he

00:41:54.150 --> 00:41:56.620


00:41:54.160 --> 00:42:00.360
could do it by his study taxonomical

00:41:56.610 --> 00:42:00.360


00:41:56.620 --> 00:42:03.520
study of nature Einstein we have used

00:42:00.350 --> 00:42:03.520


00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.900
God images when he spoke of the

00:42:03.510 --> 00:42:04.900


00:42:03.520 --> 00:42:07.510
extraordinary majesty

00:42:04.890 --> 00:42:07.510


00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:09.430
of the cosmos it's it's it's in us it's

00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:09.430


00:42:07.510 --> 00:42:12.070
in our vocabulary it's hardwired in us

00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:12.070


00:42:09.430 --> 00:42:17.440
you might almost say to use images of

00:42:12.060 --> 00:42:17.440


00:42:12.070 --> 00:42:18.430
all inspiring godly modes Archean you

00:42:17.430 --> 00:42:18.430


00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:20.470
might you might say or even

00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:20.470


00:42:18.430 --> 00:42:22.180
Shakespearean images when talking about

00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:22.180


00:42:20.470 --> 00:42:24.370
these things but when we come down to

00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:24.370


00:42:22.180 --> 00:42:27.880
the actual analysis of them we find that

00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:27.880


00:42:24.370 --> 00:42:29.230
we don't need the prime mover at all and

00:42:27.870 --> 00:42:29.230


00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.790
that most of the prime mover

00:42:29.220 --> 00:42:30.790


00:42:29.230 --> 00:42:34.990
explanations if not all of them have

00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:34.990


00:42:30.790 --> 00:42:38.800
been positively misleading so that the

00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:38.800


00:42:34.990 --> 00:42:40.480
deist may propose a designer and I may

00:42:38.790 --> 00:42:40.480


00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.130
not be able to show you convincing you

00:42:40.470 --> 00:42:42.130


00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.800
that there could be no such person

00:42:42.120 --> 00:42:44.800


00:42:42.130 --> 00:42:47.260
but the theist has all their works still

00:42:44.790 --> 00:42:47.260


00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:49.570
ahead of them from this designer how do

00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:49.570


00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:51.030
we get to the designer who answers

00:42:49.560 --> 00:42:51.030


00:42:49.570 --> 00:42:53.890
prayers

00:42:51.020 --> 00:42:53.890


00:42:51.030 --> 00:42:56.020
did you hear a thing I mean just as

00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.020


00:42:53.890 --> 00:42:58.510
phrase even an implication even a

00:42:56.010 --> 00:42:58.510


00:42:56.020 --> 00:43:00.610
suggestion from anything my opponent

00:42:58.500 --> 00:43:00.610


00:42:58.510 --> 00:43:04.360
said that you could by I know him from

00:43:00.600 --> 00:43:04.360


00:43:00.610 --> 00:43:05.800
design proven answered prayers or prove

00:43:04.350 --> 00:43:05.800


00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:09.160
that someone born of a virgin was

00:43:05.790 --> 00:43:09.160


00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:11.460
therefore the son of a god or could

00:43:09.150 --> 00:43:11.460


00:43:09.160 --> 00:43:15.210
prove that resurrections occur and that

00:43:11.450 --> 00:43:15.210


00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:18.550
by people being tortured to death

00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:18.550


00:43:15.210 --> 00:43:21.940
thousands of years ago we are now

00:43:18.540 --> 00:43:21.940


00:43:18.550 --> 00:43:25.600
redeemed that we are variously forgiven

00:43:21.930 --> 00:43:25.600


00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:28.810
our own offenses by human sacrifice how

00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:28.810


00:43:25.600 --> 00:43:32.970
does deism help you to that it doesn't

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.970


00:43:28.810 --> 00:43:34.380
it quite simply doesn't and can not

00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:34.380


00:43:32.970 --> 00:43:37.140
the attempt to build from one to the

00:43:34.370 --> 00:43:37.140


00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:40.800
other is a conjuring trick of a very

00:43:37.130 --> 00:43:40.800


00:43:37.140 --> 00:43:42.420
vulgar I think kind we live in the

00:43:40.790 --> 00:43:42.420


00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.890
childhood of our species so when Stephen

00:43:42.410 --> 00:43:43.890


00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:46.050
Hawking says that if we could understand

00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:46.050


00:43:43.890 --> 00:43:48.270
the event horizon that surrounds the

00:43:46.040 --> 00:43:48.270


00:43:46.050 --> 00:43:51.270
black hole we would in some sense know

00:43:48.260 --> 00:43:51.270


00:43:48.270 --> 00:43:52.950
the mind of God he proves that our

00:43:51.260 --> 00:43:52.950


00:43:51.270 --> 00:43:56.369
vocabulary is still that of our infancy

00:43:52.940 --> 00:43:56.369


00:43:52.950 --> 00:43:59.579
he makes no concession to the idea of a

00:43:56.359 --> 00:43:59.579


00:43:56.369 --> 00:44:02.069
theist or theocratic dispensation I

00:43:59.569 --> 00:44:02.069


00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:07.440
better ask now harm doing for time good

00:44:02.059 --> 00:44:07.440


00:44:02.069 --> 00:44:09.119
not sure I'm going to need all that but

00:44:07.430 --> 00:44:09.119


00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:11.609
I'd like to try and reply and fight on

00:44:09.109 --> 00:44:11.609


00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:13.920
my feet when I can't and I made some

00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:13.920


00:44:11.609 --> 00:44:15.240
notes about about what dr. Turek had

00:44:13.910 --> 00:44:15.240


00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:18.530
said and I feel that they were

00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:18.530


00:44:15.240 --> 00:44:23.730
challenges to me that I would be ignoble

00:44:18.520 --> 00:44:23.730


00:44:18.530 --> 00:44:25.109
if I didn't respond to the first and I

00:44:23.720 --> 00:44:25.109


00:44:23.730 --> 00:44:27.300
thought the most frankly the most

00:44:25.099 --> 00:44:27.300


00:44:25.109 --> 00:44:28.800
egregious was this I find it

00:44:27.290 --> 00:44:28.800


00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:31.910
extraordinary that it can be said on a

00:44:28.790 --> 00:44:31.910


00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:36.690
university campus in this year of grace

00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:36.690


00:44:31.910 --> 00:44:41.430
but that without God humans are capable

00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:41.430


00:44:36.690 --> 00:44:44.160
of doing anything that there is no moral

00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:44.160


00:44:41.430 --> 00:44:46.410
restraint upon us if we don't concur in

00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:46.410


00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:51.270
the idea that we are the property and

00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:51.270


00:44:46.410 --> 00:44:52.980
creation of a Supreme Being I am making

00:44:51.260 --> 00:44:52.980


00:44:51.270 --> 00:44:55.380
the assumption that all of you check in

00:44:52.970 --> 00:44:55.380


00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:57.359
every now and then with some kind of

00:44:55.370 --> 00:44:57.359


00:44:55.380 --> 00:44:59.369
news outlet and have a view of what's

00:44:57.349 --> 00:44:59.369


00:44:57.359 --> 00:45:02.579
going on the rest of the world isn't it

00:44:59.359 --> 00:45:02.579


00:44:59.369 --> 00:45:05.849
as plain as could be that those who

00:45:02.569 --> 00:45:05.849


00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:08.640
commit the most callous the most cruel

00:45:05.839 --> 00:45:08.640


00:45:05.849 --> 00:45:11.130
the most brutal the most indiscriminate

00:45:08.630 --> 00:45:11.130


00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:13.050
atrocities of all do so precisely

00:45:11.120 --> 00:45:13.050


00:45:11.130 --> 00:45:16.109
because they believe they have divine

00:45:13.040 --> 00:45:16.109


00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:19.349
permission shall I answer my own

00:45:16.099 --> 00:45:19.349


00:45:16.109 --> 00:45:21.450
question should i insult you by adding

00:45:19.339 --> 00:45:21.450


00:45:19.349 --> 00:45:23.220
more who can't think of an example of

00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:23.220


00:45:21.450 --> 00:45:26.700
this kind let me put the question in

00:45:23.210 --> 00:45:26.700


00:45:23.220 --> 00:45:29.670
another form that I've put in now every

00:45:26.690 --> 00:45:29.670


00:45:26.700 --> 00:45:31.560
forum from YouTube to c-span to the

00:45:29.660 --> 00:45:31.560


00:45:29.670 --> 00:45:34.560
wireless to the print to the radio to

00:45:31.550 --> 00:45:34.560


00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:36.660
the television and it numeral forums to

00:45:34.550 --> 00:45:36.660


00:45:34.560 --> 00:45:38.970
those who say that without God that can

00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:38.970


00:45:36.660 --> 00:45:41.970
be no morality you are to ask yourself

00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:41.970


00:45:38.970 --> 00:45:45.390
two questions you were to name a moral

00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:45.390


00:45:41.970 --> 00:45:47.400
action not to take it

00:45:45.380 --> 00:45:47.400


00:45:45.390 --> 00:45:51.809
or a moral and ethical statement made by

00:45:47.390 --> 00:45:51.809


00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:55.410
believer by daresay you can do it you

00:45:51.799 --> 00:45:55.410


00:45:51.809 --> 00:45:57.710
were then to say that you can not

00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:57.710


00:45:55.410 --> 00:45:59.640
imagine a non-believer

00:45:57.700 --> 00:45:59.640


00:45:57.710 --> 00:46:02.130
making this moral statement or

00:45:59.630 --> 00:46:02.130


00:45:59.640 --> 00:46:04.079
undertaking this moral action can you

00:46:02.120 --> 00:46:04.079


00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:05.640
think can you now think can any of you

00:46:04.069 --> 00:46:05.640


00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.829
think you have don't have to answer now

00:46:05.630 --> 00:46:07.829


00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:10.440
you have all night and and you have my

00:46:07.819 --> 00:46:10.440


00:46:07.829 --> 00:46:12.019
email and I've done this with everyone

00:46:10.430 --> 00:46:12.019


00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:17.549
from the Archbishop of Canterbury to

00:46:12.009 --> 00:46:17.549


00:46:12.019 --> 00:46:19.619
even lower people you name me the

00:46:17.539 --> 00:46:19.619


00:46:17.549 --> 00:46:20.819
ethical and moral actual statement that

00:46:19.609 --> 00:46:20.819


00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:22.890
a believer can make in an unbeliever

00:46:20.809 --> 00:46:22.890


00:46:20.819 --> 00:46:25.589
cannot that there's a price and I'll

00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.589


00:46:22.890 --> 00:46:26.339
tell you that about it later now there's

00:46:25.579 --> 00:46:26.339


00:46:25.589 --> 00:46:29.700
a second question

00:46:26.329 --> 00:46:29.700


00:46:26.339 --> 00:46:32.599
think of something wicked that only a

00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:32.599


00:46:29.700 --> 00:46:34.470
believer would be likely to do or

00:46:32.589 --> 00:46:34.470


00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:35.700
something wicked that only a believer

00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:35.700


00:46:34.470 --> 00:46:38.519
would be likely to say you've already

00:46:35.690 --> 00:46:38.519


00:46:35.700 --> 00:46:41.130
thought of it the suicide bombing

00:46:38.509 --> 00:46:41.130


00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:43.559
community is entirely religious the

00:46:41.120 --> 00:46:43.559


00:46:41.130 --> 00:46:45.989
genital mutilation community is entirely

00:46:43.549 --> 00:46:45.989


00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:48.779
religious I wouldn't say that the child

00:46:45.979 --> 00:46:48.779


00:46:45.989 --> 00:46:50.609
abuse community is entirely religious I

00:46:48.769 --> 00:46:50.609


00:46:48.779 --> 00:46:53.309
wouldn't but it's bidding to be entirely

00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:53.309


00:46:50.609 --> 00:46:57.840
religious it operates on the old latin

00:46:53.299 --> 00:46:57.840


00:46:53.309 --> 00:47:01.300
slogan no childs behind left

00:46:57.830 --> 00:47:01.300


00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:03.580
how dare anybody how dare anyone who

00:47:01.290 --> 00:47:03.580


00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:04.900
speaks for religion a say of us the

00:47:03.570 --> 00:47:04.900


00:47:03.580 --> 00:47:06.940
secular and the non-believers that we

00:47:04.890 --> 00:47:06.940


00:47:04.900 --> 00:47:09.400
are the immoral ones it is itself a

00:47:06.930 --> 00:47:09.400


00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:12.910
wicked thing to say itself an absolutely

00:47:09.390 --> 00:47:12.910


00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:14.620
indefensible thing to say no the

00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:14.620


00:47:12.910 --> 00:47:15.910
decapitation on the bus is going to be

00:47:14.610 --> 00:47:15.910


00:47:14.620 --> 00:47:18.610
done by someone who thinks God is

00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:18.610


00:47:15.910 --> 00:47:20.170
telling him to do it Smerdyakov is

00:47:18.600 --> 00:47:20.170


00:47:18.610 --> 00:47:22.300
actually the stupidest character in

00:47:20.160 --> 00:47:22.300


00:47:20.170 --> 00:47:24.040
Dostoyevsky's novel he's the one who

00:47:22.290 --> 00:47:24.040


00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:25.870
makes this proposition everyone has to

00:47:24.030 --> 00:47:25.870


00:47:24.040 --> 00:47:27.940
understand everyone has to understand

00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:27.940


00:47:25.870 --> 00:47:29.500
that it is those who feel that the

00:47:27.930 --> 00:47:29.500


00:47:27.940 --> 00:47:31.240
divine is prompting them who feel

00:47:29.490 --> 00:47:31.240


00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:33.970
they're permitted anything and

00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:33.970


00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:37.270
everything and it is those who are the

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.270


00:47:33.970 --> 00:47:39.730
leading most salient most violent most

00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:39.730


00:47:37.270 --> 00:47:41.890
vicious opponents of the values and

00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:41.890


00:47:39.730 --> 00:47:51.580
civilization that Thomas Jefferson stood

00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:51.580


00:47:41.890 --> 00:47:53.650
for and promulgated just on the question

00:47:51.570 --> 00:47:53.650


00:47:51.580 --> 00:47:55.870
of fine tuning I have a number of

00:47:53.640 --> 00:47:55.870


00:47:53.650 --> 00:47:59.920
reports we have to postpone some of the

00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:59.920


00:47:55.870 --> 00:48:03.420
the naturalistic questions for later

00:47:59.910 --> 00:48:03.420


00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:03.420
what I know they'll come up again

00:48:03.470 --> 00:48:03.470


00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:09.310
you mentioned Edwin Hubble and the way

00:48:06.660 --> 00:48:09.310


00:48:06.670 --> 00:48:10.810
that he saw the red light shift and saw

00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:10.810


00:48:09.310 --> 00:48:13.150
that the universe was not just expanding

00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.150


00:48:10.810 --> 00:48:14.800
but that the but expanding very fast

00:48:13.140 --> 00:48:14.800


00:48:13.150 --> 00:48:17.050
away from itself that the Big Bang had

00:48:14.790 --> 00:48:17.050


00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.940
not stopped Lawrence Krauss great

00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:18.940


00:48:17.050 --> 00:48:21.820
physicists probably the next Nobel Prize

00:48:18.930 --> 00:48:21.820


00:48:18.940 --> 00:48:24.100
winner if it has noticed that most

00:48:21.810 --> 00:48:24.100


00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:25.480
people's assumption was wrong that

00:48:24.090 --> 00:48:25.480


00:48:24.100 --> 00:48:28.360
though this expansion was taking place

00:48:25.470 --> 00:48:28.360


00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:30.100
it was thought the rate of speed of the

00:48:28.350 --> 00:48:30.100


00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.590
expansion must surely be declining

00:48:30.090 --> 00:48:32.590


00:48:30.100 --> 00:48:35.020
people still think in Newtonian terms in

00:48:32.580 --> 00:48:35.020


00:48:32.590 --> 00:48:36.970
this way no says Krauss he's pointed it

00:48:35.010 --> 00:48:36.970


00:48:35.020 --> 00:48:38.710
out and now it's agreed by all no the

00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.710


00:48:36.970 --> 00:48:41.200
Hubble rate of red light shift is

00:48:38.700 --> 00:48:41.200


00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:44.200
increasing the universe is dissipating

00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:44.200


00:48:41.200 --> 00:48:47.590
itself at high speed and the speed is

00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:47.590


00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:49.680
getting greater what does this mean well

00:48:47.580 --> 00:48:49.680


00:48:47.590 --> 00:48:52.000
it answers the question of why is there

00:48:49.670 --> 00:48:52.000


00:48:49.680 --> 00:48:54.640
something instead of nothing because now

00:48:51.990 --> 00:48:54.640


00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.530
we have something we're all here because

00:48:54.630 --> 00:48:56.530


00:48:54.640 --> 00:49:00.640
there's something and nothing is coming

00:48:56.520 --> 00:49:00.640


00:48:56.530 --> 00:49:01.780
right for us very soon the physicist

00:49:00.630 --> 00:49:01.780


00:49:00.640 --> 00:49:04.180
wouldn't be able to tell the Big Bang

00:49:01.770 --> 00:49:04.180


00:49:01.780 --> 00:49:06.160
had ever taken place so far sprung apart

00:49:04.170 --> 00:49:06.160


00:49:04.180 --> 00:49:08.380
will the whole system be and meanwhile

00:49:06.150 --> 00:49:08.380


00:49:06.160 --> 00:49:11.200
look in the sky at night and you can see

00:49:08.370 --> 00:49:11.200


00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:13.540
the Andromeda galaxy headed straight for

00:49:11.190 --> 00:49:13.540


00:49:11.200 --> 00:49:16.210
on a direct collision course who

00:49:13.530 --> 00:49:16.210


00:49:13.540 --> 00:49:18.010
designed that who made it certain that

00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:18.010


00:49:16.210 --> 00:49:20.319
every other planet in our solar system

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.319


00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:22.839
is either too hot or too cold to support

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:22.839


00:49:20.319 --> 00:49:25.809
life as is most of our own planet and

00:49:22.829 --> 00:49:25.809


00:49:22.839 --> 00:49:28.569
that in just one tiny irrelevant solar

00:49:25.799 --> 00:49:28.569


00:49:25.809 --> 00:49:31.750
system already condemned to heat death

00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.750


00:49:28.569 --> 00:49:34.740
and implosion some design wouldn't you

00:49:31.740 --> 00:49:34.740


00:49:31.750 --> 00:49:37.150
say but these are just the poll Turing

00:49:34.730 --> 00:49:37.150


00:49:34.740 --> 00:49:38.950
minor objections that I have to the

00:49:37.140 --> 00:49:38.950


00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:42.490
theistic worldview the main one is the

00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:42.490


00:49:38.950 --> 00:49:44.200
one with which I began religion fears

00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:44.200


00:49:42.490 --> 00:49:46.960
I'm not dear some fearsome and I

00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:46.960


00:49:44.200 --> 00:49:49.059
underline theism says that all our

00:49:46.950 --> 00:49:49.059


00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:50.920
manifold problems what is the good how

00:49:49.049 --> 00:49:50.920


00:49:49.059 --> 00:49:53.280
shall we live it how shall we know it

00:49:50.910 --> 00:49:53.280


00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:55.450
how to explain suffering how to how to

00:49:53.270 --> 00:49:55.450


00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:58.270
confront the possibility of our own

00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.270


00:49:55.450 --> 00:50:02.230
perhaps molecular irrelevance all these

00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:02.230


00:49:58.270 --> 00:50:04.900
questions that must disturb and detain

00:50:02.220 --> 00:50:04.900


00:50:02.230 --> 00:50:08.049
us all can be solved by referring them

00:50:04.890 --> 00:50:08.049


00:50:04.900 --> 00:50:10.359
upward to a totalitarian judgment to an

00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:10.359


00:50:08.049 --> 00:50:12.130
absolutist monarchy the other thing that

00:50:10.349 --> 00:50:12.130


00:50:10.359 --> 00:50:16.030
the Virginia statute on religious

00:50:12.120 --> 00:50:16.030


00:50:12.130 --> 00:50:21.990
freedom was supposed to rebut repudiated

00:50:16.020 --> 00:50:21.990


00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:21.990
disown it yes I promise you those things

00:50:22.010 --> 00:50:22.010


00:50:22.020 --> 00:50:24.819
there is no totalitarian solution to

00:50:24.329 --> 00:50:24.819


00:50:24.339 --> 00:50:29.290
these problems

00:50:24.809 --> 00:50:29.290


00:50:24.819 --> 00:50:32.530
there is no Big Brother in the sky it is

00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.530


00:50:29.290 --> 00:50:36.700
a horrible idea that there is somebody

00:50:32.520 --> 00:50:36.700


00:50:32.530 --> 00:50:40.059
who owns us who makes us who supervises

00:50:36.690 --> 00:50:40.059


00:50:36.700 --> 00:50:42.069
us waking and sleeping who knows our

00:50:40.049 --> 00:50:42.069


00:50:40.059 --> 00:50:48.069
thoughts who can convict us of thought

00:50:42.059 --> 00:50:48.069


00:50:42.069 --> 00:50:51.280
crime who can just for what we think who

00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:51.280


00:50:48.069 --> 00:50:53.710
can judge us while we sleep for things

00:50:51.270 --> 00:50:53.710


00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:56.799
that might occur to us in our dreams who

00:50:53.700 --> 00:50:56.799


00:50:53.710 --> 00:50:59.500
can create us sick as apparently we are

00:50:56.789 --> 00:50:59.500


00:50:56.799 --> 00:51:03.250
and then order us on pain of eternal

00:50:59.490 --> 00:51:03.250


00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:05.470
torture to be well again to demand this

00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:05.470


00:51:03.250 --> 00:51:10.930
to wish this to be true is to wish to

00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:10.930


00:51:05.470 --> 00:51:13.260
live as an abject slave it is a

00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.260


00:51:10.930 --> 00:51:15.700
wonderful thing it is a wonderful thing

00:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.700


00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:17.740
in my submission that we now have enough

00:51:15.690 --> 00:51:17.740


00:51:15.700 --> 00:51:20.020
information enough intelligence and I

00:51:17.730 --> 00:51:20.020


00:51:17.740 --> 00:51:22.990
hope enough intellectual and moral

00:51:20.010 --> 00:51:22.990


00:51:20.020 --> 00:51:24.350
courage to say that this ghastly

00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:24.350


00:51:22.990 --> 00:51:27.620
proposition

00:51:24.340 --> 00:51:27.620


00:51:24.350 --> 00:51:30.590
is founded on a lie and to celebrate

00:51:27.610 --> 00:51:30.590


00:51:27.620 --> 00:51:33.550
that fact and I invite you to join me in

00:51:30.580 --> 00:51:33.550


00:51:30.590 --> 00:51:33.550
doing so thank you

00:51:49.740 --> 00:51:49.740


00:51:49.750 --> 00:51:56.110
Thank You mr. Hitchens we now have five

00:51:52.180 --> 00:51:56.110


00:51:52.190 --> 00:51:56.110
minutes of rebuttal from dr. Turek

00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:00.540


00:52:00.550 --> 00:52:05.300
fairness to Christopher that statement

00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:05.300


00:52:03.770 --> 00:52:07.430
obviously was his opening statement was

00:52:05.290 --> 00:52:07.430


00:52:05.300 --> 00:52:10.280
not meant to rebut my statement but now

00:52:07.420 --> 00:52:10.280


00:52:07.430 --> 00:52:11.510
my statement is to rebut his and I want

00:52:10.270 --> 00:52:11.510


00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.190
to point out that most of what

00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:13.190


00:52:11.510 --> 00:52:15.260
Christopher just said there is pretty

00:52:13.180 --> 00:52:15.260


00:52:13.190 --> 00:52:18.020
much complaints about religion and

00:52:15.250 --> 00:52:18.020


00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:21.130
religious people and has no impact on

00:52:18.010 --> 00:52:21.130


00:52:18.020 --> 00:52:23.180
whether or not God exists

00:52:21.120 --> 00:52:23.180


00:52:21.130 --> 00:52:25.280
religious people can be the worst people

00:52:23.170 --> 00:52:25.280


00:52:23.180 --> 00:52:29.060
that ever lived that says nothing about

00:52:25.270 --> 00:52:29.060


00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:30.950
whether or not God exists people can do

00:52:29.050 --> 00:52:30.950


00:52:29.060 --> 00:52:32.690
evil that doesn't mean the parents don't

00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:32.690


00:52:30.950 --> 00:52:34.580
exist children can do evil doesn't mean

00:52:32.680 --> 00:52:34.580


00:52:32.690 --> 00:52:35.480
the parents don't exist my kids do evil

00:52:34.570 --> 00:52:35.480


00:52:34.580 --> 00:52:37.520
but I'm still here

00:52:35.470 --> 00:52:37.520


00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.140
I do evil my dad's still here in fact

00:52:37.510 --> 00:52:39.140


00:52:37.520 --> 00:52:41.240
he's sitting right there what does that

00:52:39.130 --> 00:52:41.240


00:52:39.140 --> 00:52:42.260
prove about whether or not God exists

00:52:41.230 --> 00:52:42.260


00:52:41.240 --> 00:52:43.940
let me try and go down some of the

00:52:42.250 --> 00:52:43.940


00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:46.190
things Christopher said yes I am an

00:52:43.930 --> 00:52:46.190


00:52:43.940 --> 00:52:48.790
atheist when it comes to Zeus but Zeus

00:52:46.180 --> 00:52:48.790


00:52:46.190 --> 00:52:52.250
is not spaceless timeless immaterial

00:52:48.780 --> 00:52:52.250


00:52:48.790 --> 00:52:55.520
powerful moral personal intelligent

00:52:52.240 --> 00:52:55.520


00:52:52.250 --> 00:52:56.960
creator that I hopefully at least I

00:52:55.510 --> 00:52:56.960


00:52:55.520 --> 00:52:58.370
thought I gave evidence for and maybe

00:52:56.950 --> 00:52:58.370


00:52:56.960 --> 00:53:01.310
Christopher will come back to my

00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:01.310


00:52:58.370 --> 00:53:02.300
statements on that later I don't believe

00:53:01.300 --> 00:53:02.300


00:53:01.310 --> 00:53:03.650
in Zeus because I don't think there's

00:53:02.290 --> 00:53:03.650


00:53:02.300 --> 00:53:06.820
any evidence for Zeus but I think

00:53:03.640 --> 00:53:06.820


00:53:03.650 --> 00:53:10.100
there's evidence for the theistic God

00:53:06.810 --> 00:53:10.100


00:53:06.820 --> 00:53:11.480
deism I didn't make the direct shift to

00:53:10.090 --> 00:53:11.480


00:53:10.100 --> 00:53:12.110
theism I probably should have been more

00:53:11.470 --> 00:53:12.110


00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.120
explicit

00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:14.120


00:53:12.110 --> 00:53:16.340
I think it's obvious there's a theistic

00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:16.340


00:53:14.120 --> 00:53:18.710
God because life came several billion

00:53:16.330 --> 00:53:18.710


00:53:16.340 --> 00:53:20.390
years after the creation that is not a

00:53:18.700 --> 00:53:20.390


00:53:18.710 --> 00:53:22.280
deistic concept that is a theistic

00:53:20.380 --> 00:53:22.280


00:53:20.390 --> 00:53:23.120
concept I didn't say anything about

00:53:22.270 --> 00:53:23.120


00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.830
Christianity

00:53:23.110 --> 00:53:24.830


00:53:23.120 --> 00:53:27.470
even though I am a Christian I don't

00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:27.470


00:53:24.830 --> 00:53:29.450
have time to defend Christianity here

00:53:27.460 --> 00:53:29.450


00:53:27.470 --> 00:53:31.220
I'd love to debate Christopher on the

00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:31.220


00:53:29.450 --> 00:53:33.530
issue of Christianity in the future and

00:53:31.210 --> 00:53:33.530


00:53:31.220 --> 00:53:34.790
I'll publicly offer that right now if he

00:53:33.520 --> 00:53:34.790


00:53:33.530 --> 00:53:36.440
wants to debate whether or not the New

00:53:34.780 --> 00:53:36.440


00:53:34.790 --> 00:53:38.570
Testament documents are reliable and

00:53:36.430 --> 00:53:38.570


00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:41.330
tell us really what happened about what

00:53:38.560 --> 00:53:41.330


00:53:38.570 --> 00:53:43.100
Jesus came and said and did I'd be happy

00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:43.100


00:53:41.330 --> 00:53:45.050
to do it but when I mentioned before I

00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:45.050


00:53:43.100 --> 00:53:46.700
have a couple arguments in on the bench

00:53:45.040 --> 00:53:46.700


00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:47.660
I've got almost a full baseball team of

00:53:46.690 --> 00:53:47.660


00:53:46.700 --> 00:53:49.190
arguments here I've got a couple

00:53:47.650 --> 00:53:49.190


00:53:47.660 --> 00:53:51.020
arguments on the bench it's the

00:53:49.180 --> 00:53:51.020


00:53:49.190 --> 00:53:53.000
resurrection is one of them and I don't

00:53:51.010 --> 00:53:53.000


00:53:51.020 --> 00:53:55.250
have time to get to that here so I'm not

00:53:52.990 --> 00:53:55.250


00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:57.170
backing up the Christian God here I'm

00:53:55.240 --> 00:53:57.170


00:53:55.250 --> 00:53:58.670
backing up a theistic God even though

00:53:57.160 --> 00:53:58.670


00:53:57.170 --> 00:54:00.190
personally I do believe in a Christian

00:53:58.660 --> 00:54:00.190


00:53:58.670 --> 00:54:02.570
God

00:54:00.180 --> 00:54:02.570


00:54:00.190 --> 00:54:08.750
he claimed Darwin was the greater man

00:54:02.560 --> 00:54:08.750


00:54:02.570 --> 00:54:12.710
dissipater and that he went on to talk

00:54:08.740 --> 00:54:12.710


00:54:08.750 --> 00:54:15.830
about atrocities and i think he again

00:54:12.700 --> 00:54:15.830


00:54:12.710 --> 00:54:17.450
missed my point as I said before I'm not

00:54:15.820 --> 00:54:17.450


00:54:15.830 --> 00:54:18.950
saying atheists can't be moral

00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:18.950


00:54:17.450 --> 00:54:21.170
Christopher what he says in his book

00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:21.170


00:54:18.950 --> 00:54:23.000
again much of it is true religious

00:54:21.160 --> 00:54:23.000


00:54:21.170 --> 00:54:24.380
people have done awful things in fact

00:54:22.990 --> 00:54:24.380


00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:26.210
Christianity predicts we'll be

00:54:24.370 --> 00:54:26.210


00:54:24.380 --> 00:54:28.370
hypocrites that's what the church is

00:54:26.200 --> 00:54:28.370


00:54:26.210 --> 00:54:29.420
it's full of hypocrites whenever

00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:29.420


00:54:28.370 --> 00:54:30.680
somebody says I don't want to go to

00:54:29.410 --> 00:54:30.680


00:54:29.420 --> 00:54:32.720
church there's too many hypocrites down

00:54:30.670 --> 00:54:32.720


00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:34.730
there I always say come on down pal we

00:54:32.710 --> 00:54:34.730


00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:36.860
got room for one more that's what the

00:54:34.720 --> 00:54:36.860


00:54:34.730 --> 00:54:38.510
church is we're all fallen we're all

00:54:36.850 --> 00:54:38.510


00:54:36.860 --> 00:54:40.640
sinners that's why we need a Savior

00:54:38.500 --> 00:54:40.640


00:54:38.510 --> 00:54:43.220
because we can't do it and Christopher

00:54:40.630 --> 00:54:43.220


00:54:40.640 --> 00:54:44.960
said well how can you command somebody

00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:44.960


00:54:43.220 --> 00:54:47.150
to be well when they have no capacity to

00:54:44.950 --> 00:54:47.150


00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:48.710
be well well we were well in the

00:54:47.140 --> 00:54:48.710


00:54:47.150 --> 00:54:50.390
beginning and I'm going into Christian

00:54:48.700 --> 00:54:50.390


00:54:48.710 --> 00:54:52.310
theology here I understand I'll just try

00:54:50.380 --> 00:54:52.310


00:54:50.390 --> 00:54:55.640
and answer the point we were well in the

00:54:52.300 --> 00:54:55.640


00:54:52.310 --> 00:54:57.770
beginning but then we messed up and so

00:54:55.630 --> 00:54:57.770


00:54:55.640 --> 00:55:00.470
God the Great Physician came back to

00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.470


00:54:57.770 --> 00:55:01.730
save us that's Christian theology as

00:55:00.460 --> 00:55:01.730


00:55:00.470 --> 00:55:02.870
again I don't have time to support it

00:55:01.720 --> 00:55:02.870


00:55:01.730 --> 00:55:05.330
I'm just pointing out that is the

00:55:02.860 --> 00:55:05.330


00:55:02.870 --> 00:55:07.250
theology now Christopher talked about

00:55:05.320 --> 00:55:07.250


00:55:05.330 --> 00:55:08.990
atrocities but again on the atheistic

00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:08.990


00:55:07.250 --> 00:55:11.330
worldview here's the main point how do

00:55:08.980 --> 00:55:11.330


00:55:08.990 --> 00:55:13.160
you define what an atrocity is who

00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:13.160


00:55:11.330 --> 00:55:15.640
defines it who has the authority to find

00:55:13.150 --> 00:55:15.640


00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:19.100
what atrocity is the carbon atom the

00:55:15.630 --> 00:55:19.100


00:55:15.640 --> 00:55:20.900
benzene molecule I'm not saying you have

00:55:19.090 --> 00:55:20.900


00:55:19.100 --> 00:55:23.030
to believe in God to be moral I'm not

00:55:20.890 --> 00:55:23.030


00:55:20.900 --> 00:55:24.890
saying that only religious people are

00:55:23.020 --> 00:55:24.890


00:55:23.030 --> 00:55:26.810
moral I'm not saying atheist can't be

00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:26.810


00:55:24.890 --> 00:55:29.600
moral I'm not saying atheists don't know

00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:29.600


00:55:26.810 --> 00:55:31.640
morality I'm saying there's no way to

00:55:29.590 --> 00:55:31.640


00:55:29.600 --> 00:55:34.100
justify what is right and what is wrong

00:55:31.630 --> 00:55:34.100


00:55:31.640 --> 00:55:36.740
unless there's some Authority that

00:55:34.090 --> 00:55:36.740


00:55:34.100 --> 00:55:38.300
provides it what is the authority in a

00:55:36.730 --> 00:55:38.300


00:55:36.740 --> 00:55:40.700
materialistic worldview there is no

00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:40.700


00:55:38.300 --> 00:55:43.100
authority the carbon atom has no moral

00:55:40.690 --> 00:55:43.100


00:55:40.700 --> 00:55:45.260
authority over you and it seems that

00:55:43.090 --> 00:55:45.260


00:55:43.100 --> 00:55:48.260
Christopher goes on and on about how he

00:55:45.250 --> 00:55:48.260


00:55:45.260 --> 00:55:50.750
does not want to be under any some kind

00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:50.750


00:55:48.260 --> 00:55:55.250
of divine totalitarianism that is a

00:55:50.740 --> 00:55:55.250


00:55:50.750 --> 00:55:57.130
moral rejection of God where does he

00:55:55.240 --> 00:55:57.130


00:55:55.250 --> 00:55:59.810
come up with this immoral

00:55:57.120 --> 00:55:59.810


00:55:57.130 --> 00:56:02.390
totalitarianism his worldview does not

00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:02.390


00:55:59.810 --> 00:56:04.580
afford immorality because his worldview

00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:04.580


00:56:02.390 --> 00:56:06.620
does not afford morality he has to

00:56:04.570 --> 00:56:06.620


00:56:04.580 --> 00:56:09.470
borrow from the Christian worldview in

00:56:06.610 --> 00:56:09.470


00:56:06.620 --> 00:56:13.309
order to argue against it in fact he has

00:56:09.460 --> 00:56:13.309


00:56:09.470 --> 00:56:16.079
to sit in God's lap to slap his face

00:56:13.299 --> 00:56:16.079


00:56:13.309 --> 00:56:17.640
where does he get morality from where

00:56:16.069 --> 00:56:17.640


00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.319
does he get reason from where does he

00:56:17.630 --> 00:56:19.319


00:56:17.640 --> 00:56:21.000
get mathematics from where does he get

00:56:19.309 --> 00:56:21.000


00:56:19.319 --> 00:56:22.890
consciousness from where does the

00:56:20.990 --> 00:56:22.890


00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:24.329
universe he said there are explanations

00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.329


00:56:22.890 --> 00:56:27.290
for where the universe came from

00:56:24.319 --> 00:56:27.290


00:56:24.329 --> 00:56:31.859
atheistic I'd love to hear them I

00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:31.859


00:56:27.290 --> 00:56:33.540
haven't heard one yet how does something

00:56:31.849 --> 00:56:33.540


00:56:31.859 --> 00:56:37.049
come from nothing with extreme

00:56:33.530 --> 00:56:37.049


00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:39.990
fine-tuning what is the explanation for

00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.990


00:56:37.049 --> 00:56:42.059
that he said there are arguments for the

00:56:39.980 --> 00:56:42.059


00:56:39.990 --> 00:56:44.190
beginning of life that are naturalistic

00:56:42.049 --> 00:56:44.190


00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:45.990
not according to the people who are

00:56:44.180 --> 00:56:45.990


00:56:44.190 --> 00:56:48.240
studying the matter how about Francis

00:56:45.980 --> 00:56:48.240


00:56:45.990 --> 00:56:50.190
Crick if I can find his quote here

00:56:48.230 --> 00:56:50.190


00:56:48.240 --> 00:56:51.960
Francis Crick said every time I write a

00:56:50.180 --> 00:56:51.960


00:56:50.190 --> 00:56:53.430
paper on the origin of life I swear I'll

00:56:51.950 --> 00:56:53.430


00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.200
never write another one because there's

00:56:53.420 --> 00:56:55.200


00:56:53.430 --> 00:56:59.160
too much speculation running after too

00:56:55.190 --> 00:56:59.160


00:56:55.200 --> 00:57:01.319
few facts Marc Kirschner of Harvard and

00:56:59.150 --> 00:57:01.319


00:56:59.160 --> 00:57:03.150
John Seager Hart of Berkeley said

00:57:01.309 --> 00:57:03.150


00:57:01.319 --> 00:57:05.160
everything about evolution before the

00:57:03.140 --> 00:57:05.160


00:57:03.150 --> 00:57:11.010
bacteria like life-forms is sheer

00:57:05.150 --> 00:57:11.010


00:57:05.160 --> 00:57:12.480
conjecture biochemists Klaus dose admits

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.480


00:57:11.010 --> 00:57:14.400
that after more than 30 years of

00:57:12.470 --> 00:57:14.400


00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:17.040
research into the origin of life has led

00:57:14.390 --> 00:57:17.040


00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.660
to quote a better perception of the

00:57:17.030 --> 00:57:18.660


00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:20.400
immensity of the problem of the origin

00:57:18.650 --> 00:57:20.400


00:57:18.660 --> 00:57:22.559
of life on Earth rather than its

00:57:20.390 --> 00:57:22.559


00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.750
solution at present all discussions on

00:57:22.549 --> 00:57:24.750


00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:27.030
the principle theories and experiments

00:57:24.740 --> 00:57:27.030


00:57:24.750 --> 00:57:31.829
in the field either end in stalemate or

00:57:27.020 --> 00:57:31.829


00:57:27.030 --> 00:57:33.450
in confession of ignorance now I'm not

00:57:31.819 --> 00:57:33.450


00:57:31.829 --> 00:57:36.690
saying that this is a default position

00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:36.690


00:57:33.450 --> 00:57:39.000
that must be God I'm not saying that I

00:57:36.680 --> 00:57:39.000


00:57:36.690 --> 00:57:41.520
just lack a natural explanation for the

00:57:38.990 --> 00:57:41.520


00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:44.579
origin of life I'm saying that specified

00:57:41.510 --> 00:57:44.579


00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:46.799
complexity information the DNA structure

00:57:44.569 --> 00:57:46.799


00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:49.260
that we all have is evidence for an

00:57:46.789 --> 00:57:49.260


00:57:46.799 --> 00:57:53.130
intelligent being because information

00:57:49.250 --> 00:57:53.130


00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:56.220
only comes from Minds the laws of ink

00:57:53.120 --> 00:57:56.220


00:57:53.130 --> 00:57:56.790
and paper did not create is a God is not

00:57:56.210 --> 00:57:56.790


00:57:56.220 --> 00:57:59.220
great

00:57:56.780 --> 00:57:59.220


00:57:56.790 --> 00:58:01.920
there was a mind behind it that brought

00:57:59.210 --> 00:58:01.920


00:57:59.220 --> 00:58:05.190
it into existence and there's a mind

00:58:01.910 --> 00:58:05.190


00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:07.859
behind DNA what is the ACA theistic

00:58:05.180 --> 00:58:07.859


00:58:05.190 --> 00:58:11.220
explanation for DNA what is the

00:58:07.849 --> 00:58:11.220


00:58:07.859 --> 00:58:15.299
atheistic explanation for information

00:58:11.210 --> 00:58:15.299


00:58:11.220 --> 00:58:17.549
what is the ACA theistic information for

00:58:15.289 --> 00:58:17.549


00:58:15.299 --> 00:58:20.580
all of these nine things I mentioned how

00:58:17.539 --> 00:58:20.580


00:58:17.549 --> 00:58:26.630
much time glad I have not

00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:26.630


00:58:20.580 --> 00:58:26.630
survey says sit down yes sir

00:58:34.150 --> 00:58:34.150


00:58:34.160 --> 00:58:39.210
well I think I'll just invite dr. Tori

00:58:37.580 --> 00:58:39.210


00:58:37.590 --> 00:58:41.760
to do the following and make available

00:58:39.200 --> 00:58:41.760


00:58:39.210 --> 00:58:44.490
to us in on a sheet of paper which

00:58:41.750 --> 00:58:44.490


00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:46.670
actually has the thesaurus of quotations

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.670


00:58:44.490 --> 00:58:49.050
that he's found from this and that

00:58:46.660 --> 00:58:49.050


00:58:46.670 --> 00:58:50.340
scientists and physicists and Natural

00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:50.340


00:58:49.050 --> 00:58:52.050
Sciences and so forth and you will find

00:58:50.330 --> 00:58:52.050


00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:54.240
when you read them when you look at them

00:58:52.040 --> 00:58:54.240


00:58:52.050 --> 00:58:56.670
I was writing them down as you went

00:58:54.230 --> 00:58:56.670


00:58:54.240 --> 00:58:59.280
through them all of these are statements

00:58:56.660 --> 00:58:59.280


00:58:56.670 --> 00:59:01.980
of uncertainty all of them they're

00:58:59.270 --> 00:59:01.980


00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:04.500
statements of all we know is how little

00:59:01.970 --> 00:59:04.500


00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:06.720
we know that's been for many years my

00:59:04.490 --> 00:59:06.720


00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:07.980
definition of an educated person someone

00:59:06.710 --> 00:59:07.980


00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:11.460
who knows enough to know how ignorant

00:59:07.970 --> 00:59:11.460


00:59:07.980 --> 00:59:13.170
they are it's actually is the only it's

00:59:11.450 --> 00:59:13.170


00:59:11.460 --> 00:59:14.670
not my own original definition it comes

00:59:13.160 --> 00:59:14.670


00:59:13.170 --> 00:59:17.700
from the Greek but it's the only

00:59:14.660 --> 00:59:17.700


00:59:14.670 --> 00:59:21.450
definition that works and no one working

00:59:17.690 --> 00:59:21.450


00:59:17.700 --> 00:59:24.840
at toiling in the field of science could

00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.840


00:59:21.450 --> 00:59:26.850
it possibly say anything less or more of

00:59:24.830 --> 00:59:26.850


00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:29.160
themselves especially at a time like

00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:29.160


00:59:26.850 --> 00:59:31.950
this but there you have it right away

00:59:29.150 --> 00:59:31.950


00:59:29.160 --> 00:59:34.230
the theistic and the deistic explanation

00:59:31.940 --> 00:59:34.230


00:59:31.950 --> 00:59:37.260
has to be based on a certainty that

00:59:34.220 --> 00:59:37.260


00:59:34.230 --> 00:59:39.990
there is a supervising and if you want

00:59:37.250 --> 00:59:39.990


00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:43.680
to be a theist a caring and intervening

00:59:39.980 --> 00:59:43.680


00:59:39.990 --> 00:59:46.440
creator who manages these matters and

00:59:43.670 --> 00:59:46.440


00:59:43.680 --> 00:59:49.410
there hasn't been a single sentence so

00:59:46.430 --> 00:59:49.410


00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:53.090
far from doctorate in a support of that

00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:53.090


00:59:49.410 --> 00:59:57.060
proposition let me give you an example

00:59:53.080 --> 00:59:57.060


00:59:53.090 --> 01:00:00.119
if you do the event horizon of Stephen

00:59:57.050 --> 01:00:00.119


00:59:57.060 --> 01:00:02.100
Hawking that I just mentioned God take a

01:00:00.109 --> 01:00:02.100


01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:04.640
cosmological one to begin with the event

01:00:02.090 --> 01:00:04.640


01:00:02.100 --> 01:00:08.790
horizon is the lip of the black hole

01:00:04.630 --> 01:00:08.790


01:00:04.640 --> 01:00:11.180
it's it's the suppose you could travel

01:00:08.780 --> 01:00:11.180


01:00:08.790 --> 01:00:14.640
towards a black hole and see it and see

01:00:11.170 --> 01:00:14.640


01:00:11.180 --> 01:00:17.730
the lip of it and notice it before you

01:00:14.630 --> 01:00:17.730


01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:18.960
went in and over and down that's what's

01:00:17.720 --> 01:00:18.960


01:00:17.730 --> 01:00:21.390
known as the event horizon the

01:00:18.950 --> 01:00:21.390


01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:23.010
physicists Hawking had a gravely ill

01:00:21.380 --> 01:00:23.010


01:00:21.390 --> 01:00:25.470
colleague in Cambridge who said if he

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:25.470


01:00:23.010 --> 01:00:27.869
knew he was definitely going to die

01:00:25.460 --> 01:00:27.869


01:00:25.470 --> 01:00:30.930
that's the way he'd like to go befallen

01:00:27.859 --> 01:00:30.930


01:00:27.869 --> 01:00:32.850
into the event horizon lip of the black

01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:32.850


01:00:30.930 --> 01:00:35.070
hole because in theory you'd be able to

01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:35.070


01:00:32.850 --> 01:00:36.590
see the past and the future and time

01:00:35.060 --> 01:00:36.590


01:00:35.070 --> 01:00:40.680
except you wouldn't have quite enough

01:00:36.580 --> 01:00:40.680


01:00:36.590 --> 01:00:43.900
time to do so but there would be a grand

01:00:40.670 --> 01:00:43.900


01:00:40.680 --> 01:00:46.900
way to check out if you were physicist

01:00:43.890 --> 01:00:46.900


01:00:43.900 --> 01:00:49.630
turn away from this says the turn away

01:00:46.890 --> 01:00:49.630


01:00:46.900 --> 01:00:52.060
from that these incredible majestic or

01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:52.060


01:00:49.630 --> 01:00:55.240
inspiring thoughts say the theists think

01:00:52.050 --> 01:00:55.240


01:00:52.060 --> 01:00:58.270
about the burning bush instead think

01:00:55.230 --> 01:00:58.270


01:00:55.240 --> 01:01:01.750
about the trivial miracles witnessed by

01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:01.750


01:00:58.270 --> 01:01:04.570
sheep herding peasants in Bronze Age

01:01:01.740 --> 01:01:04.570


01:01:01.750 --> 01:01:07.030
Palestine and think about the jet that

01:01:04.560 --> 01:01:07.030


01:01:04.570 --> 01:01:11.080
they they feel that we should incur for

01:01:07.020 --> 01:01:11.080


01:01:07.030 --> 01:01:14.080
their sins it was stated by dr. Jory

01:01:11.070 --> 01:01:14.080


01:01:11.080 --> 01:01:15.700
that the sins of these people the

01:01:14.070 --> 01:01:15.700


01:01:14.080 --> 01:01:18.640
transgressions of these people and the

01:01:15.690 --> 01:01:18.640


01:01:15.700 --> 01:01:20.950
debt they owe their Creator bind all of

01:01:18.630 --> 01:01:20.950


01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:22.780
us as sinners what a shame we're not

01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:22.780


01:01:20.950 --> 01:01:24.760
perfect what a shame there's nothing we

01:01:22.770 --> 01:01:24.760


01:01:22.780 --> 01:01:26.740
can do about it what a shame we are

01:01:24.750 --> 01:01:26.740


01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:29.830
created already in prison and have to

01:01:26.730 --> 01:01:29.830


01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:33.190
earn our emancipation I tell you again

01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:33.190


01:01:29.830 --> 01:01:35.050
this is civility to the ultimate power

01:01:33.180 --> 01:01:35.050


01:01:33.190 --> 01:01:37.540
now there are people in this audience

01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:37.540


01:01:35.050 --> 01:01:39.970
much better equipped than I to say that

01:01:37.530 --> 01:01:39.970


01:01:37.540 --> 01:01:42.400
there is so far nothing in our natural

01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:42.400


01:01:39.970 --> 01:01:44.730
world to move away from the cosmological

01:01:42.390 --> 01:01:44.730


01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:47.800
there is nothing in our natural world

01:01:44.720 --> 01:01:47.800


01:01:44.730 --> 01:01:52.060
globe we live on that cannot be

01:01:47.790 --> 01:01:52.060


01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:55.380
explained by random mutation combined

01:01:52.050 --> 01:01:55.380


01:01:52.060 --> 01:01:55.380
with evolution by natural selection

01:01:55.490 --> 01:01:55.490


01:01:55.500 --> 01:02:00.670
nothing works without that assumption

01:01:58.160 --> 01:02:00.670


01:01:58.170 --> 01:02:02.830
everything works with it there are lots

01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:02.830


01:02:00.670 --> 01:02:05.920
of things that remain to be decided but

01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:05.920


01:02:02.830 --> 01:02:07.780
it's not a theory or not just one it

01:02:05.910 --> 01:02:07.780


01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:10.540
does work it is operational it doesn't

01:02:07.770 --> 01:02:10.540


01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:12.090
require a prime mover Occam's razor says

01:02:10.530 --> 01:02:12.090


01:02:10.540 --> 01:02:14.920
we should dispose of unnecessary

01:02:12.080 --> 01:02:14.920


01:02:12.090 --> 01:02:18.310
needless assumptions that's what I

01:02:14.910 --> 01:02:18.310


01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:21.310
propose we do in this case I'll put it

01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:21.310


01:02:18.310 --> 01:02:28.350
another way how long would you say Homo

01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:28.350


01:02:21.310 --> 01:02:32.680
sapiens has been on the planet from

01:02:28.340 --> 01:02:32.680


01:02:28.350 --> 01:02:34.360
Francis not Crick excuse me the author

01:02:32.670 --> 01:02:34.360


01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:36.910
of human the supervisors of Human Genome

01:02:34.350 --> 01:02:36.910


01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:39.040
Project Collins Franklin my new best

01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:39.040


01:02:36.910 --> 01:02:42.430
friend and occasional debating enemy

01:02:39.030 --> 01:02:42.430


01:02:39.040 --> 01:02:44.650
thinks well not more than half a million

01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:44.650


01:02:42.430 --> 01:02:49.420
years Richard Dawkins thinks it could be

01:02:44.640 --> 01:02:49.420


01:02:44.650 --> 01:02:50.830
not just 3/4 million I can sync the

01:02:49.410 --> 01:02:50.830


01:02:49.420 --> 01:02:53.260
number actually if you like we know that

01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:53.260


01:02:50.830 --> 01:02:56.060
the we left the species left Africa

01:02:53.250 --> 01:02:56.060


01:02:53.260 --> 01:02:59.100
about 75,000 years

01:02:56.050 --> 01:02:59.100


01:02:56.060 --> 01:03:01.620
having probably shrunk down to about two

01:02:59.090 --> 01:03:01.620


01:02:59.100 --> 01:03:04.290
or three thousand people as a result of

01:03:01.610 --> 01:03:04.290


01:03:01.620 --> 01:03:05.460
a terrible climatic disturbance probably

01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:05.460


01:03:04.290 --> 01:03:08.970
from Indonesia probably from a

01:03:05.450 --> 01:03:08.970


01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:11.490
predecessor of Krakatoa which meant that

01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:11.490


01:03:08.970 --> 01:03:13.740
we were this close to joining the ninety

01:03:11.480 --> 01:03:13.740


01:03:11.490 --> 01:03:16.890
nine point eight percent of all species

01:03:13.730 --> 01:03:16.890


01:03:13.740 --> 01:03:19.980
ever living on the surface of this plant

01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:19.980


01:03:16.890 --> 01:03:23.040
who became extinct some design by the

01:03:19.970 --> 01:03:23.040


01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:24.450
way profuse creation of millions and

01:03:23.030 --> 01:03:24.450


01:03:23.040 --> 01:03:26.730
millions and millions of life forms all

01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:26.730


01:03:24.450 --> 01:03:28.230
to be wiped out with not even anyone

01:03:26.720 --> 01:03:28.230


01:03:26.730 --> 01:03:29.760
left to testify to their previous

01:03:28.220 --> 01:03:29.760


01:03:28.230 --> 01:03:31.860
existence we really joined that long

01:03:29.750 --> 01:03:31.860


01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:37.290
match get out of it just in time let's

01:03:31.850 --> 01:03:37.290


01:03:31.860 --> 01:03:39.570
call it I don't want Francis's million

01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.570


01:03:37.290 --> 01:03:41.220
Orem half a million all Richard Dawkins

01:03:39.560 --> 01:03:41.220


01:03:39.570 --> 01:03:43.320
is seventy five thousand whichever way

01:03:41.210 --> 01:03:43.320


01:03:41.220 --> 01:03:45.180
right just give me that the just give me

01:03:43.310 --> 01:03:45.180


01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.860
that amount of time suppose we've only

01:03:45.170 --> 01:03:46.860


01:03:45.180 --> 01:03:51.080
been around for 75,000 years

01:03:46.850 --> 01:03:51.080


01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:54.630
monotheism Christianity Judaism Islam

01:03:51.070 --> 01:03:54.630


01:03:51.080 --> 01:03:58.320
shows up what four or five thousand

01:03:54.620 --> 01:03:58.320


01:03:54.630 --> 01:04:00.240
years ago the most so if you give me my

01:03:58.310 --> 01:04:00.240


01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:02.280
most microscopically small assumption of

01:04:00.230 --> 01:04:02.280


01:04:00.240 --> 01:04:06.630
human existence for at least seventy

01:04:02.270 --> 01:04:06.630


01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:10.860
thousand years heaven watches as the

01:04:06.620 --> 01:04:10.860


01:04:06.630 --> 01:04:14.180
human species is born dies usually of

01:04:10.850 --> 01:04:14.180


01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:17.130
its teeth usually at about twenty

01:04:14.170 --> 01:04:17.130


01:04:14.180 --> 01:04:20.010
usually which infants having about a

01:04:17.120 --> 01:04:20.010


01:04:17.130 --> 01:04:22.200
nine ten to two percent chance of living

01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:22.200


01:04:20.010 --> 01:04:25.670
build you can I don't have enjoy your

01:04:22.190 --> 01:04:25.670


01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:27.540
picture watch is this within difference

01:04:25.660 --> 01:04:27.540


01:04:25.670 --> 01:04:30.210
thousands and thousands of generations

01:04:27.530 --> 01:04:30.210


01:04:27.540 --> 01:04:33.360
were miserable illiterate starving

01:04:30.200 --> 01:04:33.360


01:04:30.210 --> 01:04:35.010
hungry to say nothing of the wars

01:04:33.350 --> 01:04:35.010


01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:36.120
they'll fight with each other to say

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.120


01:04:35.010 --> 01:04:37.800
nothing of the cruel tease they will

01:04:36.110 --> 01:04:37.800


01:04:36.120 --> 01:04:41.660
inflict as well as the ones they will

01:04:37.790 --> 01:04:41.660


01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:44.190
suffer just from existence and only

01:04:41.650 --> 01:04:44.190


01:04:41.660 --> 01:04:46.140
three or four perhaps five thousand

01:04:44.180 --> 01:04:46.140


01:04:44.190 --> 01:04:49.760
years ago heaven decides us enough of

01:04:46.130 --> 01:04:49.760


01:04:46.140 --> 01:04:51.900
that it's time for an intervention and

01:04:49.750 --> 01:04:51.900


01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:53.220
the best way to do it would be in the

01:04:51.890 --> 01:04:53.220


01:04:51.900 --> 01:04:55.950
most primitive part of the Middle East

01:04:53.210 --> 01:04:55.950


01:04:53.220 --> 01:04:58.350
not in China where people can read and

01:04:55.940 --> 01:04:58.350


01:04:55.950 --> 01:04:59.940
said have looked at telescopes you know

01:04:58.340 --> 01:04:59.940


01:04:58.350 --> 01:05:00.180
in the most primitive part of the Middle

01:04:59.930 --> 01:05:00.180


01:04:59.940 --> 01:05:03.180
East

01:05:00.170 --> 01:05:03.180


01:05:00.180 --> 01:05:05.480
basically by offering human sacrifice to

01:05:03.170 --> 01:05:05.480


01:05:03.180 --> 01:05:05.480
them

01:05:05.780 --> 01:05:05.780


01:05:05.790 --> 01:05:10.080
this is a doctrine that cannot be

01:05:07.490 --> 01:05:10.080


01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:12.840
believed by anyone who studied anything

01:05:10.070 --> 01:05:12.840


01:05:10.080 --> 01:05:15.480
scientific anything historical anything

01:05:12.830 --> 01:05:15.480


01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:17.370
archaeological anything highly illogical

01:05:15.470 --> 01:05:17.370


01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:19.680
and think biologic not company believe

01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:19.680


01:05:17.370 --> 01:05:23.640
item can be only believed by someone who

01:05:19.670 --> 01:05:23.640


01:05:19.680 --> 01:05:27.060
wants to be a plaything and a slave of a

01:05:23.630 --> 01:05:27.060


01:05:23.640 --> 01:05:29.580
pitiless totalitarian how how glad we

01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:29.580


01:05:27.060 --> 01:05:35.570
should be that the evidence for this

01:05:29.570 --> 01:05:35.570


01:05:29.580 --> 01:05:35.570
ghastly entity is nil good Thanks

01:05:46.150 --> 01:05:46.150


01:05:46.160 --> 01:05:53.850
I'm gonna style away and let them ask

01:05:51.080 --> 01:05:53.850


01:05:51.090 --> 01:05:55.260
questions of each other and the way that

01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:55.260


01:05:53.850 --> 01:05:57.600
we've scheduled is a minute to ask and

01:05:55.250 --> 01:05:57.600


01:05:55.260 --> 01:06:00.810
five to answer and we'll try to stay to

01:05:57.590 --> 01:06:00.810


01:05:57.600 --> 01:06:01.920
that so that's very generous if you dr.

01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:01.920


01:06:00.810 --> 01:06:03.150
Turk would like to go first

01:06:01.910 --> 01:06:03.150


01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:04.950
since you had already posed some

01:06:03.140 --> 01:06:04.950


01:06:03.150 --> 01:06:06.930
questions to mr. how many times do we do

01:06:04.940 --> 01:06:06.930


01:06:04.950 --> 01:06:09.840
that three times so you get three apiece

01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:09.840


01:06:06.930 --> 01:06:11.550
wouldn't could I just proposed unless

01:06:09.830 --> 01:06:11.550


01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:14.330
you really have three that you're dying

01:06:11.540 --> 01:06:14.330


01:06:11.550 --> 01:06:16.530
to I don't have three I'm trying to duck

01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.530


01:06:14.330 --> 01:06:18.920
but that seems a long time for the

01:06:16.520 --> 01:06:18.920


01:06:16.530 --> 01:06:21.480
audience stuff to wait it seems to me

01:06:18.910 --> 01:06:21.480


01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:26.640
could we do it to maybe get to their

01:06:21.470 --> 01:06:26.640


01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:30.180
questions I have six I'm your I'm your

01:06:26.630 --> 01:06:30.180


01:06:26.640 --> 01:06:33.810
witness then so three was right dr. Turk

01:06:30.170 --> 01:06:33.810


01:06:30.180 --> 01:06:35.880
okay Christopher what is your

01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:35.880


01:06:33.810 --> 01:06:38.690
explanation for the beginning of time

01:06:35.870 --> 01:06:38.690


01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:41.670
space and matter out of nothing

01:06:38.680 --> 01:06:41.670


01:06:38.690 --> 01:06:43.140
well we don't know

01:06:41.660 --> 01:06:43.140


01:06:41.670 --> 01:06:47.430
I remember being asked by one of my

01:06:43.130 --> 01:06:47.430


01:06:43.140 --> 01:06:51.060
children once that I said well what what

01:06:47.420 --> 01:06:51.060


01:06:47.430 --> 01:06:53.760
was there at the big bag and I said well

01:06:51.050 --> 01:06:53.760


01:06:51.060 --> 01:06:56.910
you have to imagine this is this shows

01:06:53.750 --> 01:06:56.910


01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:59.190
how poverty-stricken our own vocabulary

01:06:56.900 --> 01:06:59.190


01:06:56.910 --> 01:07:02.490
is and I suspect how poverty-stricken

01:06:59.180 --> 01:07:02.490


01:06:59.190 --> 01:07:04.080
our own a capacity is in other words I

01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:04.080


01:07:02.490 --> 01:07:05.760
think there are some things not that we

01:07:04.070 --> 01:07:05.760


01:07:04.080 --> 01:07:08.550
don't understand or know but that we

01:07:05.750 --> 01:07:08.550


01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:11.340
cannot so we would use to sort of

01:07:08.540 --> 01:07:11.340


01:07:08.550 --> 01:07:13.740
primitive images but I said suppose you

01:07:11.330 --> 01:07:13.740


01:07:11.340 --> 01:07:16.560
could picture all of the matter the

01:07:13.730 --> 01:07:16.560


01:07:13.740 --> 01:07:18.570
whole of matter condensed into I got

01:07:16.550 --> 01:07:18.570


01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:21.000
this from Hawking I think one of his

01:07:18.560 --> 01:07:21.000


01:07:18.570 --> 01:07:25.980
colleagues condensed into something like

01:07:20.990 --> 01:07:25.980


01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:28.380
a very small dense black suitcase of the

01:07:25.970 --> 01:07:28.380


01:07:25.980 --> 01:07:32.870
kind you see people carrying money in in

01:07:28.370 --> 01:07:32.870


01:07:28.380 --> 01:07:35.340
crime for us and it's about to fly up

01:07:32.860 --> 01:07:35.340


01:07:32.870 --> 01:07:36.930
that's what you have to be able and that

01:07:35.330 --> 01:07:36.930


01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:40.170
everything that's ever going to be is

01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:40.170


01:07:36.930 --> 01:07:42.120
inside that that was the best I could do

01:07:40.160 --> 01:07:42.120


01:07:40.170 --> 01:07:44.420
and I don't think many people could do

01:07:42.110 --> 01:07:44.420


01:07:42.120 --> 01:07:46.770
if I say it myself and that much better

01:07:44.410 --> 01:07:46.770


01:07:44.420 --> 01:07:48.450
but I was completely unforced because

01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:48.450


01:07:46.770 --> 01:07:52.500
the kids said well what was outside the

01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:52.500


01:07:48.450 --> 01:07:55.350
city and I thought well I can't like

01:07:52.490 --> 01:07:55.350


01:07:52.500 --> 01:07:58.590
can do that and I don't know anyone who

01:07:55.340 --> 01:07:58.590


01:07:55.350 --> 01:08:02.610
can and that in a way would be my whole

01:07:58.580 --> 01:08:02.610


01:07:58.590 --> 01:08:05.220
point I don't have to know you do you're

01:08:02.600 --> 01:08:05.220


01:08:02.610 --> 01:08:08.400
the one who says you know not me

01:08:05.210 --> 01:08:08.400


01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:11.610
the theists of the deist say oh come on

01:08:08.390 --> 01:08:11.610


01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:13.470
we know this is only possible with an

01:08:11.600 --> 01:08:13.470


01:08:11.610 --> 01:08:15.300
author is very possible with a creator

01:08:13.460 --> 01:08:15.300


01:08:13.470 --> 01:08:16.710
so the Apostle with a master and

01:08:15.290 --> 01:08:16.710


01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:18.779
commander it's only possible with a

01:08:16.700 --> 01:08:18.779


01:08:16.710 --> 01:08:21.540
dictator you're welcome I don't need

01:08:18.769 --> 01:08:21.540


01:08:18.779 --> 01:08:25.200
five minutes is it is it fair to say

01:08:21.530 --> 01:08:25.200


01:08:21.540 --> 01:08:26.940
though that if the creation was out of

01:08:25.190 --> 01:08:26.940


01:08:25.200 --> 01:08:30.450
nothing and that's the common view today

01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:30.450


01:08:26.940 --> 01:08:32.520
that the beam had brought it into

01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:32.520


01:08:30.450 --> 01:08:34.319
existence the cause whatever it was it's

01:08:32.510 --> 01:08:34.319


01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.240
a big as what we ground you have a so

01:08:34.309 --> 01:08:36.240


01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.620
being because to go from a state of

01:08:36.230 --> 01:08:37.620


01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:39.600
non-existence to a state of existence

01:08:37.610 --> 01:08:39.600


01:08:37.620 --> 01:08:41.700
you need to make a choice you don't you

01:08:39.590 --> 01:08:41.700


01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:43.470
don't have how does something what are

01:08:41.690 --> 01:08:43.470


01:08:41.700 --> 01:08:45.180
you getting this choice from the choice

01:08:43.460 --> 01:08:45.180


01:08:43.470 --> 01:08:48.060
how does a first of all there was no

01:08:45.170 --> 01:08:48.060


01:08:45.180 --> 01:08:50.100
nature there was nothing so if there was

01:08:48.050 --> 01:08:50.100


01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:52.200
nothing how do you get something from

01:08:50.090 --> 01:08:52.200


01:08:50.100 --> 01:08:53.730
nothing without a cause how do you get I

01:08:52.190 --> 01:08:53.730


01:08:52.200 --> 01:08:55.190
can ask the same question and the way I

01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:55.190


01:08:53.730 --> 01:08:57.180
did before how do you get so much

01:08:55.180 --> 01:08:57.180


01:08:55.190 --> 01:08:59.640
nothing from something look into the

01:08:57.170 --> 01:08:59.640


01:08:57.180 --> 01:09:01.470
night sky if you're in say the Carmel

01:08:59.630 --> 01:09:01.470


01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:02.970
Peninsula you can't do it from many

01:09:01.460 --> 01:09:02.970


01:09:01.470 --> 01:09:04.980
parts of Virginia now but if you are

01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:04.980


01:09:02.970 --> 01:09:07.470
certain parts of California as I was

01:09:04.970 --> 01:09:07.470


01:09:04.980 --> 01:09:09.450
recently you can look on the night sky

01:09:07.460 --> 01:09:09.450


01:09:07.470 --> 01:09:11.069
and see universe is blowing up and

01:09:09.440 --> 01:09:11.069


01:09:09.450 --> 01:09:13.920
bursting into flame every night of the

01:09:11.059 --> 01:09:13.920


01:09:11.069 --> 01:09:16.680
week several times they had something

01:09:13.910 --> 01:09:16.680


01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:18.839
and it's all nothing now who's the

01:09:16.670 --> 01:09:18.839


01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:21.180
author of that who mandated that who's

01:09:18.829 --> 01:09:21.180


01:09:18.839 --> 01:09:23.940
the creator of that who's the dictator

01:09:21.170 --> 01:09:23.940


01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:26.160
who demands that sacrifice you're making

01:09:23.930 --> 01:09:26.160


01:09:23.940 --> 01:09:27.390
a rod for your own back here the fact

01:09:26.150 --> 01:09:27.390


01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:28.859
that things go out of existence

01:09:27.380 --> 01:09:28.859


01:09:27.390 --> 01:09:31.109
Christopher doesn't mean that they're

01:09:28.849 --> 01:09:31.109


01:09:28.859 --> 01:09:33.359
not designed the typewriter is out of

01:09:31.099 --> 01:09:33.359


01:09:31.109 --> 01:09:35.520
existence right now thankfully but the

01:09:33.349 --> 01:09:35.520


01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:37.259
typewriters designed so the fact that

01:09:35.510 --> 01:09:37.259


01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:38.759
the universe is going to heat death

01:09:37.249 --> 01:09:38.759


01:09:37.259 --> 01:09:41.069
doesn't mean that it didn't have a

01:09:38.749 --> 01:09:41.069


01:09:38.759 --> 01:09:44.040
designer at the beginning and of course

01:09:41.059 --> 01:09:44.040


01:09:41.069 --> 01:09:45.900
religious people believe that somebody's

01:09:44.030 --> 01:09:45.900


01:09:44.040 --> 01:09:48.450
going to intervene to stop it before it

01:09:45.890 --> 01:09:48.450


01:09:45.900 --> 01:09:49.940
does go anything they do even if it

01:09:48.440 --> 01:09:49.940


01:09:48.450 --> 01:09:52.130
doesn't

01:09:49.930 --> 01:09:52.130


01:09:49.940 --> 01:09:54.800
no office or even if nobody intervened

01:09:52.120 --> 01:09:54.800


01:09:52.130 --> 01:09:56.989
you can go traditionally knows to eat

01:09:54.790 --> 01:09:56.989


01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:59.150
death excuse me did the religious among

01:09:56.979 --> 01:09:59.150


01:09:56.989 --> 01:10:00.770
you ladies and gentlemen to understand I

01:09:59.140 --> 01:10:00.770


01:09:59.150 --> 01:10:02.810
did not that there will be an

01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:02.810


01:10:00.770 --> 01:10:06.110
intervention to make an exception in our

01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:06.110


01:10:02.810 --> 01:10:09.140
case that this will not happen to our

01:10:06.100 --> 01:10:09.140


01:10:06.110 --> 01:10:10.969
cosmos the God will prevent that he does

01:10:09.130 --> 01:10:10.969


01:10:09.140 --> 01:10:15.650
that's the Christian view and as I had

01:10:10.959 --> 01:10:15.650


01:10:10.969 --> 01:10:18.410
no idea and don't have seen new earth

01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:18.410


01:10:15.650 --> 01:10:20.660
would be created Genesis is Paradise

01:10:18.400 --> 01:10:20.660


01:10:18.410 --> 01:10:24.199
Lost revelation is paradise resort

01:10:20.650 --> 01:10:24.199


01:10:20.660 --> 01:10:27.710
island away have you it sounds thatcher

01:10:24.189 --> 01:10:27.710


01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:29.600
us to me yeah how do you get used to do

01:10:27.700 --> 01:10:29.600


01:10:27.710 --> 01:10:30.230
you I am not the one who has to answer

01:10:29.590 --> 01:10:30.230


01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:31.969
the question

01:10:30.220 --> 01:10:31.969


01:10:30.230 --> 01:10:33.500
excuse me you're the one who has to

01:10:31.959 --> 01:10:33.500


01:10:31.969 --> 01:10:35.330
answer but you you're the one who claims

01:10:33.490 --> 01:10:35.330


01:10:33.500 --> 01:10:38.630
to know you say there was a creation

01:10:35.320 --> 01:10:38.630


01:10:35.330 --> 01:10:40.340
moment and a creator I want to know why

01:10:38.620 --> 01:10:40.340


01:10:38.630 --> 01:10:43.130
you're changing the subject it seems to

01:10:40.330 --> 01:10:43.130


01:10:40.340 --> 01:10:44.239
me how do i how do I not know this when

01:10:43.120 --> 01:10:44.239


01:10:43.130 --> 01:10:47.030
you're the one where's all the

01:10:44.229 --> 01:10:47.030


01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:48.710
information I also want to know I also

01:10:47.020 --> 01:10:48.710


01:10:47.030 --> 01:10:51.650
want now I also want to know this I want

01:10:48.700 --> 01:10:51.650


01:10:48.710 --> 01:10:55.489
to know what sources you have that are

01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:55.489


01:10:51.650 --> 01:10:57.800
not available to me how do you know that

01:10:55.479 --> 01:10:57.800


01:10:55.489 --> 01:11:00.260
an intervention worker to prevent the

01:10:57.790 --> 01:11:00.260


01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:01.430
entropy an implosion and destruction of

01:11:00.250 --> 01:11:01.430


01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:04.580
our services do you want to go to our

01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:04.580


01:11:01.430 --> 01:11:06.080
second debate I'll I'll provide that but

01:11:04.570 --> 01:11:06.080


01:11:04.580 --> 01:11:07.850
but what would I say it is let's say

01:11:06.070 --> 01:11:07.850


01:11:06.080 --> 01:11:09.530
there's no inner inch let's say there's

01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:09.530


01:11:07.850 --> 01:11:10.760
no intervention we go to heat depth does

01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:10.760


01:11:09.530 --> 01:11:13.430
that mean in the universe was not

01:11:10.750 --> 01:11:13.430


01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:15.260
created and not designed it doesn't

01:11:13.420 --> 01:11:15.260


01:11:13.430 --> 01:11:16.820
entail that belief no but it makes it

01:11:15.250 --> 01:11:16.820


01:11:15.260 --> 01:11:20.870
actually what makes it seem a very

01:11:16.810 --> 01:11:20.870


01:11:16.820 --> 01:11:23.330
capricious designer shall we say rather

01:11:20.860 --> 01:11:23.330


01:11:20.870 --> 01:11:25.520
as I said it's an old verse of full

01:11:23.320 --> 01:11:25.520


01:11:23.330 --> 01:11:28.640
grevilles created sick commanded to be

01:11:25.510 --> 01:11:28.640


01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:30.680
well why would why would people be told

01:11:28.630 --> 01:11:30.680


01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:32.960
okay I can create you but I'm going to

01:11:30.670 --> 01:11:32.960


01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:36.050
create you with original sin misery

01:11:32.950 --> 01:11:36.050


01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:38.320
shame death of children disease and so

01:11:36.040 --> 01:11:38.320


01:11:36.050 --> 01:11:42.219
on just to see if you can pass a test

01:11:38.310 --> 01:11:42.219


01:11:38.320 --> 01:11:45.440
the mean I might not send you to hell I

01:11:42.209 --> 01:11:45.440


01:11:42.219 --> 01:11:46.910
don't say that that didn't happen I say

01:11:45.430 --> 01:11:46.910


01:11:45.440 --> 01:11:49.580
that I'm very glad that the evidence for

01:11:46.900 --> 01:11:49.580


01:11:46.910 --> 01:11:51.260
it is very scanty and I accuse those of

01:11:49.570 --> 01:11:51.260


01:11:49.580 --> 01:11:53.210
who believe who do believe it and I

01:11:51.250 --> 01:11:53.210


01:11:51.260 --> 01:11:54.560
can't have been showing this understood

01:11:53.200 --> 01:11:54.560


01:11:53.210 --> 01:11:58.130
on this point of having

01:11:54.550 --> 01:11:58.130


01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:59.960
harboring a very sinister desire to live

01:11:58.120 --> 01:11:59.960


01:11:58.130 --> 01:12:00.770
in a church a latarian system if I

01:11:59.950 --> 01:12:00.770


01:11:59.960 --> 01:12:04.120
sister

01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:04.120


01:12:00.770 --> 01:12:06.650
let's get let's design to be safe

01:12:04.110 --> 01:12:06.650


01:12:04.120 --> 01:12:10.070
masochism I think I regard masochism

01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:10.070


01:12:06.650 --> 01:12:11.630
your ego masochism name beyond I'll say

01:12:10.060 --> 01:12:11.630


01:12:10.070 --> 01:12:15.250
that I think masochism is a sinister and

01:12:11.620 --> 01:12:15.250


01:12:11.630 --> 01:12:15.250
creepy impulse here mr. Hitchens

01:12:15.750 --> 01:12:15.750


01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:23.870
question for our doctor jerk alright I

01:12:18.370 --> 01:12:23.870


01:12:18.380 --> 01:12:27.140
won't take a minute to ask in the eye I

01:12:23.860 --> 01:12:27.140


01:12:23.870 --> 01:12:30.520
don't just support and try and help out

01:12:27.130 --> 01:12:30.520


01:12:27.140 --> 01:12:32.210
the those who descent from the

01:12:30.510 --> 01:12:32.210


01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:35.500
ridiculous

01:12:32.200 --> 01:12:35.500


01:12:32.210 --> 01:12:38.480
belief Christianity the horrible idea of

01:12:35.490 --> 01:12:38.480


01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:40.820
vicarious redemption in other words of

01:12:38.470 --> 01:12:40.820


01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:43.520
the idea that by watching another person

01:12:40.810 --> 01:12:43.520


01:12:40.820 --> 01:12:44.990
suffer an innocent person suffer that

01:12:43.510 --> 01:12:44.990


01:12:43.520 --> 01:12:47.540
you could be free not just from your

01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:47.540


01:12:44.990 --> 01:12:49.670
debts or your sins but your

01:12:47.530 --> 01:12:49.670


01:12:47.540 --> 01:12:51.020
responsibilities you could cast your

01:12:49.660 --> 01:12:51.020


01:12:49.670 --> 01:12:53.510
sins on escape

01:12:51.010 --> 01:12:53.510


01:12:51.020 --> 01:12:55.910
I don't just oppose that disgusting

01:12:53.500 --> 01:12:55.910


01:12:53.510 --> 01:12:58.180
belief I oppose the Judaism from which

01:12:55.900 --> 01:12:58.180


01:12:55.910 --> 01:13:01.250
it's plagiarized and the Islam that

01:12:58.170 --> 01:13:01.250


01:12:58.180 --> 01:13:04.070
plagiarizes from it and I give a

01:13:01.240 --> 01:13:04.070


01:13:01.250 --> 01:13:06.440
publicity and exposure whenever I can to

01:13:04.060 --> 01:13:06.440


01:13:04.070 --> 01:13:08.690
those who were brave enough in old times

01:13:06.430 --> 01:13:08.690


01:13:06.440 --> 01:13:11.570
to oppose this this nightmarish belief

01:13:08.680 --> 01:13:11.570


01:13:08.690 --> 01:13:14.210
and one of the great opponents of the

01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:14.210


01:13:11.570 --> 01:13:17.260
Islamic totalitarianism in ancient

01:13:14.200 --> 01:13:17.260


01:13:14.210 --> 01:13:19.730
Persia was the great Omar Khayyam

01:13:17.250 --> 01:13:19.730


01:13:17.260 --> 01:13:22.040
perhaps the greatest poet of Persian

01:13:19.720 --> 01:13:22.040


01:13:19.730 --> 01:13:24.680
whose Rubaiyat I'm sure is known at

01:13:22.030 --> 01:13:24.680


01:13:22.040 --> 01:13:27.410
least to some of you and my favorite

01:13:24.670 --> 01:13:27.410


01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:29.630
verse of this comes from the Robert

01:13:27.400 --> 01:13:29.630


01:13:27.410 --> 01:13:30.470
legaly and translation and it takes the

01:13:29.620 --> 01:13:30.470


01:13:29.630 --> 01:13:33.410
form of a question

01:13:30.460 --> 01:13:33.410


01:13:30.470 --> 01:13:38.300
the quatrain is in the form of question

01:13:33.400 --> 01:13:38.300


01:13:33.410 --> 01:13:43.370
it says and do you think that onto such

01:13:38.290 --> 01:13:43.370


01:13:38.300 --> 01:13:47.920
as you a maggot minded starved fanatic

01:13:43.360 --> 01:13:47.920


01:13:43.370 --> 01:13:51.950
crew God gave a secret and denied it me

01:13:47.910 --> 01:13:51.950


01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:56.650
well well what matters it believe that

01:13:51.940 --> 01:13:56.650


01:13:51.950 --> 01:13:59.060
to to this magnificent astronomer and

01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:59.060


01:13:56.650 --> 01:14:02.350
scientists and physician and humanists

01:13:59.050 --> 01:14:02.350


01:13:59.060 --> 01:14:05.000
of Persia who opposed the cruel sadistic

01:14:02.340 --> 01:14:05.000


01:14:02.350 --> 01:14:07.040
verminous ignorant mullahs of his day I

01:14:04.990 --> 01:14:07.040


01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:09.260
borrow the question what is your

01:14:07.030 --> 01:14:09.260


01:14:07.040 --> 01:14:11.810
authority for saying that you know

01:14:09.250 --> 01:14:11.810


01:14:09.260 --> 01:14:13.560
something that I don't Chris Wragge

01:14:11.800 --> 01:14:13.560


01:14:11.810 --> 01:14:16.210
probability are

01:14:13.550 --> 01:14:16.210


01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:19.720
as you said before you can't disprove

01:14:16.200 --> 01:14:19.720


01:14:16.210 --> 01:14:21.670
the existence of God and you can't prove

01:14:19.710 --> 01:14:21.670


01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:22.930
beyond any doubt that there's a God I'm

01:14:21.660 --> 01:14:22.930


01:14:21.670 --> 01:14:24.910
giving probability I'm giving

01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:24.910


01:14:22.930 --> 01:14:28.510
cosmological teleological moral

01:14:24.900 --> 01:14:28.510


01:14:24.910 --> 01:14:31.120
consciousness reason mathematics all of

01:14:28.500 --> 01:14:31.120


01:14:28.510 --> 01:14:32.920
those things I listed before it's open

01:14:31.110 --> 01:14:32.920


01:14:31.120 --> 01:14:36.550
the evidence is open to everybody and

01:14:32.910 --> 01:14:36.550


01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:39.610
this is related to your 70 thousand

01:14:36.540 --> 01:14:39.610


01:14:36.550 --> 01:14:42.250
years a point that you've just made

01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:42.250


01:14:39.610 --> 01:14:44.890
there from a Christian perspective God

01:14:42.240 --> 01:14:44.890


01:14:42.250 --> 01:14:48.340
has always had a revelation even before

01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:48.340


01:14:44.890 --> 01:14:49.960
Christ it talks about the fact that God

01:14:48.330 --> 01:14:49.960


01:14:48.340 --> 01:14:53.200
has always had a witness there's three

01:14:49.950 --> 01:14:53.200


01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:55.060
witnesses there's creation everyone has

01:14:53.190 --> 01:14:55.060


01:14:53.200 --> 01:14:56.590
creation there's conscience

01:14:55.050 --> 01:14:56.590


01:14:55.060 --> 01:14:58.900
everyone has conscience and there's

01:14:56.580 --> 01:14:58.900


01:14:56.590 --> 01:15:02.650
Christ now Christ's true only came 2,000

01:14:58.890 --> 01:15:02.650


01:14:58.900 --> 01:15:04.600
years ago but his sacrifice how some

01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:04.600


01:15:02.650 --> 01:15:07.930
published on again excuse me his

01:15:04.590 --> 01:15:07.930


01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:10.960
sacrifice of atonement is retroactive to

01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:10.960


01:15:07.930 --> 01:15:13.600
everybody that lived before him so he's

01:15:10.950 --> 01:15:13.600


01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:14.920
always that awareness it is quite

01:15:13.590 --> 01:15:14.920


01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:18.240
convenient and that is the very nature

01:15:14.910 --> 01:15:18.240


01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:18.240
of God you're absolutely correct

01:15:19.110 --> 01:15:19.110


01:15:19.120 --> 01:15:25.250
well I got him to say it

01:15:22.930 --> 01:15:25.250


01:15:22.940 --> 01:15:27.860
you see if we were if we were only

01:15:25.240 --> 01:15:27.860


01:15:25.250 --> 01:15:29.120
discussing ontological questions that

01:15:27.850 --> 01:15:29.120


01:15:27.860 --> 01:15:32.900
would be all very well and it could be

01:15:29.110 --> 01:15:32.900


01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:35.060
quite amusing I could say that you

01:15:32.890 --> 01:15:35.060


01:15:32.900 --> 01:15:36.950
require a higher degree of standard of

01:15:35.050 --> 01:15:36.950


01:15:35.060 --> 01:15:39.200
proof for your proposition than I

01:15:36.940 --> 01:15:39.200


01:15:36.950 --> 01:15:41.090
perhaps do for mine and you probably

01:15:39.190 --> 01:15:41.090


01:15:39.200 --> 01:15:43.280
accept that and so forth and we could go

01:15:41.080 --> 01:15:43.280


01:15:41.090 --> 01:15:44.870
back and forth we'd be pull Turing the

01:15:43.270 --> 01:15:44.870


01:15:43.280 --> 01:15:47.210
gain with the essence of the matter

01:15:44.860 --> 01:15:47.210


01:15:44.870 --> 01:15:49.400
which is this the difference between the

01:15:47.200 --> 01:15:49.400


01:15:47.210 --> 01:15:51.800
theist and the deist is as follows the

01:15:49.390 --> 01:15:51.800


01:15:49.400 --> 01:15:53.990
deer says may not make sense without

01:15:51.790 --> 01:15:53.990


01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:56.360
some kind of designer the theist says

01:15:53.980 --> 01:15:56.360


01:15:53.990 --> 01:16:00.590
when I tell you what to do Christopher I

01:15:56.350 --> 01:16:00.590


01:15:56.360 --> 01:16:05.140
have God on my side you're the deer says

01:16:00.580 --> 01:16:05.140


01:16:00.590 --> 01:16:07.700
he can tell what God wants of me what

01:16:05.130 --> 01:16:07.700


01:16:05.140 --> 01:16:11.110
lengths I should shave off the end of my

01:16:07.690 --> 01:16:11.110


01:16:07.700 --> 01:16:14.420
penis if I'm boy I'll have a male child

01:16:11.100 --> 01:16:14.420


01:16:11.110 --> 01:16:16.040
or off the clitoris if it's a female

01:16:14.410 --> 01:16:16.040


01:16:14.420 --> 01:16:17.390
child he knows through the exactitude

01:16:16.030 --> 01:16:17.390


01:16:16.040 --> 01:16:20.660
what the proportions of that should be

01:16:17.380 --> 01:16:20.660


01:16:17.390 --> 01:16:22.610
what the diet should be what the dietary

01:16:20.650 --> 01:16:22.610


01:16:20.660 --> 01:16:26.090
laws ought to be who I should sleep with

01:16:22.600 --> 01:16:26.090


01:16:22.610 --> 01:16:28.190
and in what position and various I think

01:16:26.080 --> 01:16:28.190


01:16:26.090 --> 01:16:30.500
you can and since God doesn't ever

01:16:28.180 --> 01:16:30.500


01:16:28.190 --> 01:16:32.930
directly appear and say do it this way

01:16:30.490 --> 01:16:32.930


01:16:30.500 --> 01:16:34.670
it's done for him this is really

01:16:32.920 --> 01:16:34.670


01:16:32.930 --> 01:16:37.280
convenient by human representatives who

01:16:34.660 --> 01:16:37.280


01:16:34.670 --> 01:16:38.570
claim to act in his name so that's why I

01:16:37.270 --> 01:16:38.570


01:16:37.280 --> 01:16:41.000
think your standard of proof should be a

01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:41.000


01:16:38.570 --> 01:16:42.260
great deal higher because if you you're

01:16:40.990 --> 01:16:42.260


01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:44.030
you know the reason this point is

01:16:42.250 --> 01:16:44.030


01:16:42.260 --> 01:16:46.700
important to you is because it would

01:16:44.020 --> 01:16:46.700


01:16:44.030 --> 01:16:48.650
mean real power in the only world that

01:16:46.690 --> 01:16:48.650


01:16:46.700 --> 01:16:52.130
actually exists which is the material

01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:52.130


01:16:48.650 --> 01:16:55.610
world of you over me and you wonder why

01:16:52.120 --> 01:16:55.610


01:16:52.130 --> 01:16:58.070
I'm not keen okay the the material world

01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:58.070


01:16:55.610 --> 01:17:00.620
is all that exists that thought that you

01:16:58.060 --> 01:17:00.620


01:16:58.070 --> 01:17:02.090
just mentioned Christopher the material

01:17:00.610 --> 01:17:02.090


01:17:00.620 --> 01:17:04.670
world that all that exists is that

01:17:02.080 --> 01:17:04.670


01:17:02.090 --> 01:17:08.450
thought material and if it is why is it

01:17:04.660 --> 01:17:08.450


01:17:04.670 --> 01:17:13.580
true that sounds like has mystery to me

01:17:08.440 --> 01:17:13.580


01:17:08.450 --> 01:17:15.880
but I mean I think that that everything

01:17:13.570 --> 01:17:15.880


01:17:13.580 --> 01:17:18.320
that I am a capable of thinking saying

01:17:15.870 --> 01:17:18.320


01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:20.900
feeling and so forth does depend on my

01:17:18.310 --> 01:17:20.900


01:17:18.320 --> 01:17:25.220
continued existence as a what should we

01:17:20.890 --> 01:17:25.220


01:17:20.900 --> 01:17:27.110
say mass of molecules or yeah I should

01:17:25.210 --> 01:17:27.110


01:17:25.220 --> 01:17:29.710
shoot me in the head and I go I can't go

01:17:27.100 --> 01:17:29.710


01:17:27.110 --> 01:17:29.710
on like this

01:17:30.010 --> 01:17:30.010


01:17:30.020 --> 01:17:37.440
and I won't be coming back to bother you

01:17:33.290 --> 01:17:37.440


01:17:33.300 --> 01:17:41.159
either question sure nor am i going

01:17:37.430 --> 01:17:41.159


01:17:37.440 --> 01:17:42.840
anywhere after that Sam Chris I don't

01:17:41.149 --> 01:17:42.840


01:17:41.159 --> 01:17:44.239
wish it otherwise by the way I don't

01:17:42.830 --> 01:17:44.239


01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:48.570
wish it

01:17:44.229 --> 01:17:48.570


01:17:44.239 --> 01:17:51.659
God gives you what you desire would that

01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:51.659


01:17:48.570 --> 01:17:54.840
that were the case I have a bear with me

01:17:51.649 --> 01:17:54.840


01:17:51.659 --> 01:17:56.099
a relatively long question here after

01:17:54.830 --> 01:17:56.099


01:17:54.840 --> 01:18:00.480
admitting that an unborn child is a

01:17:56.089 --> 01:18:00.480


01:17:56.099 --> 01:18:02.639
human being you write on page 221 and I

01:18:00.470 --> 01:18:02.639


01:18:00.480 --> 01:18:04.409
thankfully you you say in the book that

01:18:02.629 --> 01:18:04.409


01:18:02.639 --> 01:18:05.250
it's nonsense that an unborn child is

01:18:04.399 --> 01:18:05.250


01:18:04.409 --> 01:18:07.199
not a human being

01:18:05.240 --> 01:18:07.199


01:18:05.250 --> 01:18:09.030
you admit that the unborn child is you

01:18:07.189 --> 01:18:09.030


01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:10.739
say this and I quote there may be

01:18:09.020 --> 01:18:10.739


01:18:09.030 --> 01:18:13.170
circumstances in which it is not

01:18:10.729 --> 01:18:13.170


01:18:10.739 --> 01:18:16.079
desirable to carry a fetus to full-term

01:18:13.160 --> 01:18:16.079


01:18:13.170 --> 01:18:18.679
you then go on to advocate termination

01:18:16.069 --> 01:18:18.679


01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:22.020
of pregnancy if birth control fails

01:18:18.669 --> 01:18:22.020


01:18:18.679 --> 01:18:24.210
here's my question why is it that

01:18:22.010 --> 01:18:24.210


01:18:22.020 --> 01:18:26.670
according to you when God plays God by

01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:26.670


01:18:24.210 --> 01:18:29.250
taking a life prematurely in the Old

01:18:26.660 --> 01:18:29.250


01:18:26.670 --> 01:18:31.320
Testament for example it is a moral

01:18:29.240 --> 01:18:31.320


01:18:29.250 --> 01:18:32.909
outrage but when you play God by taking

01:18:31.310 --> 01:18:32.909


01:18:31.320 --> 01:18:35.400
a life prematurely through abortion it

01:18:32.899 --> 01:18:35.400


01:18:32.909 --> 01:18:36.780
is a moral right well it's a false

01:18:35.390 --> 01:18:36.780


01:18:35.400 --> 01:18:39.000
distinction I mean I don't that's not

01:18:36.770 --> 01:18:39.000


01:18:36.780 --> 01:18:40.829
what I say I mean I say that the the

01:18:38.990 --> 01:18:40.829


01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:43.619
great abortifacient is I would say

01:18:40.819 --> 01:18:43.619


01:18:40.829 --> 01:18:46.110
nature I don't say god of course

01:18:43.609 --> 01:18:46.110


01:18:43.619 --> 01:18:49.070
God does not decide so many pregnancies

01:18:46.100 --> 01:18:49.070


01:18:46.110 --> 01:18:51.719
are not character full-term nature knows

01:18:49.060 --> 01:18:51.719


01:18:49.070 --> 01:18:54.199
in the case of our species as with every

01:18:51.709 --> 01:18:54.199


01:18:51.719 --> 01:18:56.219
other mammal and primate that some

01:18:54.189 --> 01:18:56.219


01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:58.260
fetuses are not going to make it and

01:18:56.209 --> 01:18:58.260


01:18:56.219 --> 01:19:02.190
flushes them out that that's just a

01:18:58.250 --> 01:19:02.190


01:18:58.260 --> 01:19:04.650
brute fact we wouldn't be here if that

01:19:02.180 --> 01:19:04.650


01:19:02.190 --> 01:19:08.219
wasn't the case because we're as you

01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:08.219


01:19:04.650 --> 01:19:10.010
know adapted biologically to a to an

01:19:08.209 --> 01:19:10.010


01:19:08.219 --> 01:19:12.389
environment we've abandoned the savanna

01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:12.389


01:19:10.010 --> 01:19:13.980
that's why we have appendices that is

01:19:12.379 --> 01:19:13.980


01:19:12.389 --> 01:19:15.659
designed for grass eaters and you know

01:19:13.970 --> 01:19:15.659


01:19:13.980 --> 01:19:18.389
will this see it's all very well

01:19:15.649 --> 01:19:18.389


01:19:15.659 --> 01:19:21.630
knowable you can't be having a brood of

01:19:18.379 --> 01:19:21.630


01:19:18.389 --> 01:19:24.179
sickly half-baked children and get away

01:19:21.620 --> 01:19:24.179


01:19:21.630 --> 01:19:25.530
from the Predators I mean so nature is

01:19:24.169 --> 01:19:25.530


01:19:24.179 --> 01:19:27.900
the great abortifacient I certainly

01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:27.900


01:19:25.530 --> 01:19:30.750
don't blame God for it I do as a

01:19:27.890 --> 01:19:30.750


01:19:27.900 --> 01:19:33.389
humanist believe that the concept unborn

01:19:30.740 --> 01:19:33.389


01:19:30.750 --> 01:19:36.960
child is a real one and I think the

01:19:33.379 --> 01:19:36.960


01:19:33.389 --> 01:19:38.660
concept is underlined by all the recent

01:19:36.950 --> 01:19:38.660


01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:42.130
findings of embryology that

01:19:38.650 --> 01:19:42.130


01:19:38.660 --> 01:19:44.750
by the early viability of the

01:19:42.120 --> 01:19:44.750


01:19:42.130 --> 01:19:46.910
well-conceived a human baby the one that

01:19:44.740 --> 01:19:46.910


01:19:44.750 --> 01:19:49.610
isn't going to be critically deformed or

01:19:46.900 --> 01:19:49.610


01:19:46.910 --> 01:19:51.620
even some that are will be able to

01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:51.620


01:19:49.610 --> 01:19:52.910
survive outside the womb earlier and

01:19:51.610 --> 01:19:52.910


01:19:51.620 --> 01:19:55.730
earlier and earlier and I see that date

01:19:52.900 --> 01:19:55.730


01:19:52.910 --> 01:19:57.680
only being pushed pushed back and I feel

01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:57.680


01:19:55.730 --> 01:19:59.870
a responsibility to consider the

01:19:57.670 --> 01:19:59.870


01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:02.660
occupant of the of the womb as a

01:19:59.860 --> 01:20:02.660


01:19:59.870 --> 01:20:05.150
candidate member of society in the

01:20:02.650 --> 01:20:05.150


01:20:02.660 --> 01:20:09.790
future and thus to say that it cannot be

01:20:05.140 --> 01:20:09.790


01:20:05.150 --> 01:20:11.870
only the responsibility of the woman to

01:20:09.780 --> 01:20:11.870


01:20:09.790 --> 01:20:14.810
decide upon it that it's a social

01:20:11.860 --> 01:20:14.810


01:20:11.870 --> 01:20:16.910
question and an ethical and moral one

01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:16.910


01:20:14.810 --> 01:20:19.040
and I say this as someone who has no

01:20:16.900 --> 01:20:19.040


01:20:16.910 --> 01:20:22.130
supernatural belief so your question

01:20:19.030 --> 01:20:22.130


01:20:19.040 --> 01:20:24.020
ought to have been this how do I have

01:20:22.120 --> 01:20:24.020


01:20:22.130 --> 01:20:26.480
any ethical opinions since I don't

01:20:24.010 --> 01:20:26.480


01:20:24.020 --> 01:20:28.040
believe that I'm created and I don't

01:20:26.470 --> 01:20:28.040


01:20:26.480 --> 01:20:29.270
believe I'm going to heaven I prefer to

01:20:28.030 --> 01:20:29.270


01:20:28.040 --> 01:20:30.860
first question if you don't right but

01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:30.860


01:20:29.270 --> 01:20:33.170
okay but I mean it just isn't this

01:20:30.850 --> 01:20:33.170


01:20:30.860 --> 01:20:34.700
entailed but I've have i well I appeal

01:20:33.160 --> 01:20:34.700


01:20:33.170 --> 01:20:36.350
to the audience have I not answered the

01:20:34.690 --> 01:20:36.350


01:20:34.700 --> 01:20:39.020
question about the termination of

01:20:36.340 --> 01:20:39.020


01:20:36.350 --> 01:20:40.760
pregnancy which bit of I had not

01:20:39.010 --> 01:20:40.760


01:20:39.020 --> 01:20:42.710
answered you better prompt me that I'll

01:20:40.750 --> 01:20:42.710


01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:44.390
read it again why is it that according

01:20:42.700 --> 01:20:44.390


01:20:42.710 --> 01:20:46.250
to you when God plays God by taking a

01:20:44.380 --> 01:20:46.250


01:20:44.390 --> 01:20:49.280
life prima luckily it isn't according to

01:20:46.240 --> 01:20:49.280


01:20:46.250 --> 01:20:52.190
me God I don't say God does that you

01:20:49.270 --> 01:20:52.190


01:20:49.280 --> 01:20:53.930
measured in your book which is right

01:20:52.180 --> 01:20:53.930


01:20:52.190 --> 01:20:55.340
over here you have an entire chapter

01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:55.340


01:20:53.930 --> 01:20:57.350
about the atrocities in the Old

01:20:55.330 --> 01:20:57.350


01:20:55.340 --> 01:20:59.300
Testament yes and the atrocities have to

01:20:57.340 --> 01:20:59.300


01:20:57.350 --> 01:21:02.420
do with God commanding genocide and

01:20:59.290 --> 01:21:02.420


01:20:59.300 --> 01:21:04.550
those things and and and you obviously

01:21:02.410 --> 01:21:04.550


01:21:02.420 --> 01:21:07.640
have a problem with that as many people

01:21:04.540 --> 01:21:07.640


01:21:04.550 --> 01:21:09.230
should so my question again is why

01:21:07.630 --> 01:21:09.230


01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:10.400
according to you when God plays God by

01:21:09.220 --> 01:21:10.400


01:21:09.230 --> 01:21:13.460
taking a life prematurely in the Old

01:21:10.390 --> 01:21:13.460


01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:14.810
Testament is it a moral outrage but when

01:21:13.450 --> 01:21:14.810


01:21:13.460 --> 01:21:16.400
you play God by taking a life

01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:16.400


01:21:14.810 --> 01:21:20.960
prematurely through an abortion it is a

01:21:16.390 --> 01:21:20.960


01:21:16.400 --> 01:21:24.590
moral right once again I'm sorry if my

01:21:20.950 --> 01:21:24.590


01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:27.530
work is so obscure but I don't say that

01:21:24.580 --> 01:21:27.530


01:21:24.590 --> 01:21:29.360
I have a moral right to terminate

01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:29.360


01:21:27.530 --> 01:21:30.910
pregnancy I have given all the reasons

01:21:29.350 --> 01:21:30.910


01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:33.650
that I think hedged that question

01:21:30.900 --> 01:21:33.650


01:21:30.910 --> 01:21:36.620
ethically and morally very sternly there

01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:36.620


01:21:33.650 --> 01:21:39.200
stringently and in any case it's not

01:21:36.610 --> 01:21:39.200


01:21:36.620 --> 01:21:42.190
like saying that every living child of

01:21:39.190 --> 01:21:42.190


01:21:39.200 --> 01:21:47.480
the Amalekites should be destroyed and

01:21:42.180 --> 01:21:47.480


01:21:42.190 --> 01:21:49.370
an injunction by God to Moses to say

01:21:47.470 --> 01:21:49.370


01:21:47.480 --> 01:21:51.590
he's been too merciful he spared too

01:21:49.360 --> 01:21:51.590


01:21:49.370 --> 01:21:52.849
many children and enslaved to a few

01:21:51.580 --> 01:21:52.849


01:21:51.590 --> 01:21:55.219
women

01:21:52.839 --> 01:21:55.219


01:21:52.849 --> 01:21:57.919
didn't make the genocide complete I I'm

01:21:55.209 --> 01:21:57.919


01:21:55.219 --> 01:22:01.429
sorry I've never been accused of and I

01:21:57.909 --> 01:22:01.429


01:21:57.919 --> 01:22:04.010
expect not to be if I'm lucky in a my

01:22:01.419 --> 01:22:04.010


01:22:01.429 --> 01:22:05.329
life of any such thing and the the idea

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:05.329


01:22:04.010 --> 01:22:08.359
there's a moral equivalence between the

01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:08.359


01:22:05.329 --> 01:22:14.929
two or handling the really difficult

01:22:08.349 --> 01:22:14.929


01:22:08.359 --> 01:22:17.569
question of a a non-viable fetus in what

01:22:14.919 --> 01:22:17.569


01:22:14.929 --> 01:22:21.319
should be done about it isn't a moral

01:22:17.559 --> 01:22:21.319


01:22:17.569 --> 01:22:24.499
equivalence at all so do you want to say

01:22:21.309 --> 01:22:24.499


01:22:21.319 --> 01:22:26.479
that all unborn life is like you say in

01:22:24.489 --> 01:22:26.479


01:22:24.499 --> 01:22:27.800
the book is a human being and therefore

01:22:26.469 --> 01:22:27.800


01:22:26.479 --> 01:22:28.789
you should not kill it is that what you

01:22:27.790 --> 01:22:28.789


01:22:27.800 --> 01:22:30.229
want to say to get out of this dilemma

01:22:28.779 --> 01:22:30.229


01:22:28.789 --> 01:22:32.300
or what you want to know but I think no

01:22:30.219 --> 01:22:32.300


01:22:30.229 --> 01:22:35.559
but I think the presumption that I've

01:22:32.290 --> 01:22:35.559


01:22:32.300 --> 01:22:41.179
long said that the presumption is that

01:22:35.549 --> 01:22:41.179


01:22:35.559 --> 01:22:42.949
the unborn entity has a right on its

01:22:41.169 --> 01:22:42.949


01:22:41.179 --> 01:22:45.859
side and that every effort should be

01:22:42.939 --> 01:22:45.859


01:22:42.949 --> 01:22:47.119
made to see if it can be preserved and I

01:22:45.849 --> 01:22:47.119


01:22:45.859 --> 01:22:48.829
think that's I think that's an ethical

01:22:47.109 --> 01:22:48.829


01:22:47.119 --> 01:22:50.719
imperative is what I do say in the books

01:22:48.819 --> 01:22:50.719


01:22:48.829 --> 01:22:55.510
I think the Roman Catholic Church makes

01:22:50.709 --> 01:22:55.510


01:22:50.719 --> 01:22:58.550
this argument immoral when it could be a

01:22:55.500 --> 01:22:58.550


01:22:55.510 --> 01:23:00.709
moral one by saying that contraception

01:22:58.540 --> 01:23:00.709


01:22:58.550 --> 01:23:02.179
is not to be allowed by saying the

01:23:00.699 --> 01:23:02.179


01:23:00.709 --> 01:23:03.829
contraception is the moral equivalent of

01:23:02.169 --> 01:23:03.829


01:23:02.179 --> 01:23:06.319
abortion in other words to say the

01:23:03.819 --> 01:23:06.319


01:23:03.829 --> 01:23:08.300
contraception is also murder which is a

01:23:06.309 --> 01:23:08.300


01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:10.369
nonsensical and disproportionate

01:23:08.290 --> 01:23:10.369


01:23:08.300 --> 01:23:12.109
position I quote some serious Catholics

01:23:10.359 --> 01:23:12.109


01:23:10.369 --> 01:23:13.939
in my book William F Buckley the late is

01:23:12.099 --> 01:23:13.939


01:23:12.109 --> 01:23:15.349
one Clare Boothe Luce is another by

01:23:13.929 --> 01:23:15.349


01:23:13.939 --> 01:23:16.789
saying if the church says the

01:23:15.339 --> 01:23:16.789


01:23:15.349 --> 01:23:18.589
contraception abortion are morally the

01:23:16.779 --> 01:23:18.589


01:23:16.789 --> 01:23:22.839
same it degrades the opposition to

01:23:18.579 --> 01:23:22.839


01:23:18.589 --> 01:23:25.429
abortion why and by making absurd

01:23:22.829 --> 01:23:25.429


01:23:22.839 --> 01:23:26.989
arguments as it has in the past Aquinas

01:23:25.419 --> 01:23:26.989


01:23:25.429 --> 01:23:29.329
believed that every single sperm

01:23:26.979 --> 01:23:29.329


01:23:26.989 --> 01:23:32.089
contained a micro embryo inside it and

01:23:29.319 --> 01:23:32.089


01:23:29.329 --> 01:23:35.809
thus that if you like I hope hope don't

01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:35.809


01:23:32.089 --> 01:23:40.999
offend anyone handjobs our genocide as

01:23:35.799 --> 01:23:40.999


01:23:35.809 --> 01:23:43.129
for blowjobs don't start that electric

01:23:40.989 --> 01:23:43.129


01:23:40.999 --> 01:23:45.050
pregnancy Adele was a direct threat to

01:23:43.119 --> 01:23:45.050


01:23:43.129 --> 01:23:47.629
the life of the mother fallopian tube

01:23:45.040 --> 01:23:47.629


01:23:45.050 --> 01:23:49.999
pregnancy is instead of a direct threat

01:23:47.619 --> 01:23:49.999


01:23:47.629 --> 01:23:53.089
to the life of the mother and an obvious

01:23:49.989 --> 01:23:53.089


01:23:49.999 --> 01:23:55.909
no starter for a human embryo because

01:23:53.079 --> 01:23:55.909


01:23:53.089 --> 01:23:57.589
that's going anyway is someone who

01:23:55.899 --> 01:23:57.589


01:23:55.909 --> 01:23:58.189
should be allowed to vote this is

01:23:57.579 --> 01:23:58.189


01:23:57.589 --> 01:24:00.589
nonsense

01:23:58.179 --> 01:24:00.589


01:23:58.189 --> 01:24:02.569
it's casuistry it's immoral it's

01:24:00.579 --> 01:24:02.569


01:24:00.589 --> 01:24:04.710
superstition it prevents people from

01:24:02.559 --> 01:24:04.710


01:24:02.569 --> 01:24:06.540
thinking seriously about

01:24:04.700 --> 01:24:06.540


01:24:04.710 --> 01:24:09.090
matters that humanism can decide for

01:24:06.530 --> 01:24:09.090


01:24:06.540 --> 01:24:13.200
itself for heaven's sake without any

01:24:09.080 --> 01:24:13.200


01:24:09.090 --> 01:24:17.160
supernatural intervention your question

01:24:13.190 --> 01:24:17.160


01:24:13.200 --> 01:24:19.230
sir oh well since I probably answered

01:24:17.150 --> 01:24:19.230


01:24:17.160 --> 01:24:21.330
the your last question with a question

01:24:19.220 --> 01:24:21.330


01:24:19.230 --> 01:24:24.469
of my own I'll make it my question to

01:24:21.320 --> 01:24:24.469


01:24:21.330 --> 01:24:29.580
you I'm very keen to know how it is that

01:24:24.459 --> 01:24:29.580


01:24:24.469 --> 01:24:33.000
you in a sense that you dare to say that

01:24:29.570 --> 01:24:33.000


01:24:29.580 --> 01:24:36.600
without a belief in religion I would

01:24:32.990 --> 01:24:36.600


01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:37.260
have no source for ethical or moral now

01:24:36.590 --> 01:24:37.260


01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:42.080
what I'm saying

01:24:37.250 --> 01:24:42.080


01:24:37.260 --> 01:24:44.760
you seem to hint at it now did he not oh

01:24:42.070 --> 01:24:44.760


01:24:42.080 --> 01:24:46.590
I'm not saying you don't know morality

01:24:44.750 --> 01:24:46.590


01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:48.890
Christopher I'm saying you can't justify

01:24:46.580 --> 01:24:48.890


01:24:46.590 --> 01:24:53.700
morality without a being beyond yourself

01:24:48.880 --> 01:24:53.700


01:24:48.890 --> 01:24:57.180
so that just if I okay good so that if I

01:24:53.690 --> 01:24:57.180


01:24:53.700 --> 01:24:59.070
say that for me it's enough to be

01:24:57.170 --> 01:24:59.070


01:24:57.180 --> 01:25:00.630
willing to love my fellow man and

01:24:59.060 --> 01:25:00.630


01:24:59.070 --> 01:25:02.730
perhaps hope that my fellow man and

01:25:00.620 --> 01:25:02.730


01:25:00.630 --> 01:25:07.260
woman will give me some of the same

01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:07.260


01:25:02.730 --> 01:25:13.500
consideration in return and that after

01:25:07.250 --> 01:25:13.500


01:25:07.260 --> 01:25:18.750
all the the Samaritan of whom we've all

01:25:13.490 --> 01:25:18.750


01:25:13.500 --> 01:25:20.480
heard was the only one to help after the

01:25:18.740 --> 01:25:20.480


01:25:18.750 --> 01:25:22.620
priests and the Levites had passed by

01:25:20.470 --> 01:25:22.620


01:25:20.480 --> 01:25:24.300
Anderson Arjun also though he's talked

01:25:22.610 --> 01:25:24.300


01:25:22.620 --> 01:25:26.640
off by Jesus can't have been a Christian

01:25:24.290 --> 01:25:26.640


01:25:24.300 --> 01:25:28.200
because he appears in a story told by

01:25:26.630 --> 01:25:28.200


01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:31.170
Jesus so there can't be any Christianity

01:25:28.190 --> 01:25:31.170


01:25:28.200 --> 01:25:32.550
before that somehow he knew the moral

01:25:31.160 --> 01:25:32.550


01:25:31.170 --> 01:25:34.620
thing to do is to help his fellow person

01:25:32.540 --> 01:25:34.620


01:25:32.550 --> 01:25:36.480
without your religious instruction yes

01:25:34.610 --> 01:25:36.480


01:25:34.620 --> 01:25:37.800
that's actually the whole point of the

01:25:36.470 --> 01:25:37.800


01:25:36.480 --> 01:25:39.330
parable though it's not the way it's

01:25:37.790 --> 01:25:39.330


01:25:37.800 --> 01:25:41.070
usually told and that's what

01:25:39.320 --> 01:25:41.070


01:25:39.330 --> 01:25:42.480
Christianity teaches you know morality

01:25:41.060 --> 01:25:42.480


01:25:41.070 --> 01:25:43.739
it's written on your heart you don't

01:25:42.470 --> 01:25:43.739


01:25:42.480 --> 01:25:46.200
need the scripture to know right from

01:25:43.729 --> 01:25:46.200


01:25:43.739 --> 01:25:48.420
wrong and this was only available to us

01:25:46.190 --> 01:25:48.420


01:25:46.200 --> 01:25:51.000
2,000 years good no no you've known it

01:25:48.410 --> 01:25:51.000


01:25:48.420 --> 01:25:53.070
from the beginning of time conscience

01:25:50.990 --> 01:25:53.070


01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:54.810
has been on humanity from F forever

01:25:53.060 --> 01:25:54.810


01:25:53.070 --> 01:25:57.030
you'll have to let me press you a little

01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:57.030


01:25:54.810 --> 01:25:59.730
bit on that I mean William Gladstone

01:25:57.020 --> 01:25:59.730


01:25:57.030 --> 01:26:01.830
spent a huge amount of his life and he

01:25:59.720 --> 01:26:01.830


01:25:59.730 --> 01:26:05.090
was great scorer of Latin and Greek

01:26:01.820 --> 01:26:05.090


01:26:01.830 --> 01:26:08.430
showing that every one of the Greek

01:26:05.080 --> 01:26:08.430


01:26:05.090 --> 01:26:10.320
Socratic and other moral precepts all

01:26:08.420 --> 01:26:10.320


01:26:08.430 --> 01:26:11.820
they were were just pre figurations of

01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:11.820


01:26:10.320 --> 01:26:15.290
Christianity these are the best the

01:26:11.810 --> 01:26:15.290


01:26:11.820 --> 01:26:18.160
Greeks could do before Jesus arrived

01:26:15.280 --> 01:26:18.160


01:26:15.290 --> 01:26:19.970
we didn't face the idea that these

01:26:18.150 --> 01:26:19.970


01:26:18.160 --> 01:26:22.010
solidarities and moralities and

01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:22.010


01:26:19.970 --> 01:26:24.080
understandings are in asian people and

01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.080


01:26:22.010 --> 01:26:25.850
don't require divine permission I just

01:26:24.070 --> 01:26:25.850


01:26:24.080 --> 01:26:27.530
have to ask you if you could do it

01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:27.530


01:26:25.850 --> 01:26:29.270
plainly which side do you come down on

01:26:27.520 --> 01:26:29.270


01:26:27.530 --> 01:26:32.390
do you think we need divine permission

01:26:29.260 --> 01:26:32.390


01:26:29.270 --> 01:26:33.920
to act humanely to each other no it has

01:26:32.380 --> 01:26:33.920


01:26:32.390 --> 01:26:36.590
nothing to do with permission it has to

01:26:33.910 --> 01:26:36.590


01:26:33.920 --> 01:26:39.110
do with the ontological category known

01:26:36.580 --> 01:26:39.110


01:26:36.590 --> 01:26:40.430
as morality where does morality come

01:26:39.100 --> 01:26:40.430


01:26:39.110 --> 01:26:42.740
from does it come from the benzene

01:26:40.420 --> 01:26:42.740


01:26:40.430 --> 01:26:45.050
molecule the carbon molecule the oxygen

01:26:42.730 --> 01:26:45.050


01:26:42.740 --> 01:26:47.570
molecule in your world here where does

01:26:45.040 --> 01:26:47.570


01:26:45.050 --> 01:26:50.120
it come from suppose that we were having

01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:50.120


01:26:47.570 --> 01:26:52.970
this discussion before the existence of

01:26:50.110 --> 01:26:52.970


01:26:50.120 --> 01:26:55.400
molecules was understood it's a relevant

01:26:52.960 --> 01:26:55.400


01:26:52.970 --> 01:26:57.560
name it's not because the the discussion

01:26:55.390 --> 01:26:57.560


01:26:55.400 --> 01:27:00.130
about where does the good come from was

01:26:57.550 --> 01:27:00.130


01:26:57.560 --> 01:27:04.090
being conducted before Lucretius

01:27:00.120 --> 01:27:04.090


01:27:00.130 --> 01:27:06.800
developed the atomic theory before um

01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:06.800


01:27:04.090 --> 01:27:08.510
Democritus and Epicurus I should better

01:27:06.790 --> 01:27:08.510


01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:10.430
say understood that the whole world was

01:27:08.500 --> 01:27:10.430


01:27:08.510 --> 01:27:12.800
made up of atoms and molecules before

01:27:10.420 --> 01:27:12.800


01:27:10.430 --> 01:27:16.760
that was known people were arguing why

01:27:12.790 --> 01:27:16.760


01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:18.740
do we behave one way to our fellows and

01:27:16.750 --> 01:27:18.740


01:27:16.760 --> 01:27:20.180
we call it good and another way and we

01:27:18.730 --> 01:27:20.180


01:27:18.740 --> 01:27:21.980
call it work it because it's written

01:27:20.170 --> 01:27:21.980


01:27:20.180 --> 01:27:23.510
like that you can't I don't think you

01:27:21.970 --> 01:27:23.510


01:27:21.980 --> 01:27:26.180
can build in a molecular distraction

01:27:23.500 --> 01:27:26.180


01:27:23.510 --> 01:27:29.090
that's it I don't have the molecular

01:27:26.170 --> 01:27:29.090


01:27:26.180 --> 01:27:30.560
problem you do it's your materialist I'm

01:27:29.080 --> 01:27:30.560


01:27:29.090 --> 01:27:33.140
trying to ask you where does morality

01:27:30.550 --> 01:27:33.140


01:27:30.560 --> 01:27:34.700
come from in a materialistic worldview

01:27:33.130 --> 01:27:34.700


01:27:33.140 --> 01:27:36.410
well did I not just acquit myself of

01:27:34.690 --> 01:27:36.410


01:27:34.700 --> 01:27:38.900
that charge and say that the argument

01:27:36.400 --> 01:27:38.900


01:27:36.410 --> 01:27:40.670
precedes the knowledge of the atomic and

01:27:38.890 --> 01:27:40.670


01:27:38.900 --> 01:27:42.590
molecular structure no it doesn't no not

01:27:40.660 --> 01:27:42.590


01:27:40.670 --> 01:27:44.240
that I think by the way that the atomic

01:27:42.580 --> 01:27:44.240


01:27:42.590 --> 01:27:45.830
and molecular structure is irrelevant

01:27:44.230 --> 01:27:45.830


01:27:44.240 --> 01:27:49.220
and it could be that we might find out

01:27:45.820 --> 01:27:49.220


01:27:45.830 --> 01:27:53.150
that there are who knows pheromones or

01:27:49.210 --> 01:27:53.150


01:27:49.220 --> 01:27:56.060
this other phenomena that do have an

01:27:53.140 --> 01:27:56.060


01:27:53.150 --> 01:27:58.520
influence on our moral conditioning this

01:27:56.050 --> 01:27:58.520


01:27:56.060 --> 01:28:00.620
still wouldn't to a morally normal

01:27:58.510 --> 01:28:00.620


01:27:58.520 --> 01:28:04.180
person relieve them of the

01:28:00.610 --> 01:28:04.180


01:28:00.620 --> 01:28:06.710
responsibility leg that I I feel I know

01:28:04.170 --> 01:28:06.710


01:28:04.180 --> 01:28:09.200
what's right I feel that some things my

01:28:06.700 --> 01:28:09.200


01:28:06.710 --> 01:28:11.450
children don't need to be told they

01:28:09.190 --> 01:28:11.450


01:28:09.200 --> 01:28:13.220
already know let me let me let me

01:28:11.440 --> 01:28:13.220


01:28:11.450 --> 01:28:15.350
interject here and just ask a question

01:28:13.210 --> 01:28:15.350


01:28:13.220 --> 01:28:18.410
another way you are asked to tell a

01:28:15.340 --> 01:28:18.410


01:28:15.350 --> 01:28:19.640
child you you go to this church which

01:28:18.400 --> 01:28:19.640


01:28:18.410 --> 01:28:21.410
means you'll go to heaven but your

01:28:19.630 --> 01:28:21.410


01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:23.390
little playmates don't go to that church

01:28:21.400 --> 01:28:23.390


01:28:21.410 --> 01:28:25.940
and therefore will go to hell

01:28:23.380 --> 01:28:25.940


01:28:23.390 --> 01:28:28.460
seems to me to be an unpleasant thing to

01:28:25.930 --> 01:28:28.460


01:28:25.940 --> 01:28:30.830
be saying but bless that is maybe I

01:28:28.450 --> 01:28:30.830


01:28:28.460 --> 01:28:32.090
in a minority that that could be an

01:28:30.820 --> 01:28:32.090


01:28:30.830 --> 01:28:34.670
unpleasant thing but how do you

01:28:32.080 --> 01:28:34.670


01:28:32.090 --> 01:28:36.200
dimension evil the--what's calling me

01:28:34.660 --> 01:28:36.200


01:28:34.670 --> 01:28:39.110
risks aren't only a religious person

01:28:36.190 --> 01:28:39.110


01:28:36.200 --> 01:28:44.410
would dream of saying let's call it evil

01:28:39.100 --> 01:28:44.410


01:28:39.110 --> 01:28:44.410
where does evil come from religion

01:28:50.089 --> 01:28:50.089


01:28:50.099 --> 01:28:55.409
and Maru our actual CEO next question

01:28:53.089 --> 01:28:55.409


01:28:53.099 --> 01:28:57.690
morality comes from humanism and is

01:28:55.399 --> 01:28:57.690


01:28:55.409 --> 01:28:59.429
stolen by religion for its own purpose

01:28:57.680 --> 01:28:59.429


01:28:57.690 --> 01:29:02.460
humanism cording to who Hitler Mussolini

01:28:59.419 --> 01:29:02.460


01:28:59.429 --> 01:29:05.159
Stalin who you saying that Hitler was

01:29:02.450 --> 01:29:05.159


01:29:02.460 --> 01:29:08.190
the humanist just Hitchens

01:29:05.149 --> 01:29:08.190


01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:11.760
I've lived to hear it said Hitchens had

01:29:08.180 --> 01:29:11.760


01:29:08.190 --> 01:29:13.530
been in Virginia Hitler was a Catholic

01:29:11.750 --> 01:29:13.530


01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:15.239
you men are you know as a Catholic so

01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:15.239


01:29:13.530 --> 01:29:19.369
Hitler was a Catholic says muscle in it

01:29:15.229 --> 01:29:19.369


01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:23.790
give me a how how does morality exists

01:29:19.359 --> 01:29:23.790


01:29:19.369 --> 01:29:26.010
my opinion you know official border with

01:29:23.780 --> 01:29:26.010


01:29:23.790 --> 01:29:27.659
the Protestant Catholic churches both of

01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:27.659


01:29:26.010 --> 01:29:30.210
them wanted the worship of themselves as

01:29:27.649 --> 01:29:30.210


01:29:27.659 --> 01:29:32.210
well as of God so I suppose no evil

01:29:30.200 --> 01:29:32.210


01:29:30.210 --> 01:29:35.159
coming later and their third main ally

01:29:32.200 --> 01:29:35.159


01:29:32.210 --> 01:29:37.020
Hirohito the Emperor of Japan not

01:29:35.149 --> 01:29:37.020


01:29:35.159 --> 01:29:39.929
content just to be theocratic was

01:29:37.010 --> 01:29:39.929


01:29:37.020 --> 01:29:41.550
himself a god so anyone who says the

01:29:39.919 --> 01:29:41.550


01:29:39.929 --> 01:29:44.190
fascism and Nazism was secular

01:29:41.540 --> 01:29:44.190


01:29:41.550 --> 01:29:53.400
he's an ignoramus why is it not gigantic

01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:53.400


01:29:44.190 --> 01:29:54.840
scale I'm asking it ontological question

01:29:53.390 --> 01:29:54.840


01:29:53.400 --> 01:29:56.429
I know as being older Hitler right

01:29:54.830 --> 01:29:56.429


01:29:54.840 --> 01:30:01.079
because I'm a humanist I'm not asking a

01:29:56.419 --> 01:30:01.079


01:29:56.429 --> 01:30:02.429
sociological arrestin all right let me

01:30:01.069 --> 01:30:02.429


01:30:01.079 --> 01:30:06.750
ask a question another way this is my

01:30:02.419 --> 01:30:06.750


01:30:02.429 --> 01:30:08.190
last question if God does not exist why

01:30:06.740 --> 01:30:08.190


01:30:06.750 --> 01:30:09.960
do all people have a fixed moral

01:30:08.180 --> 01:30:09.960


01:30:08.190 --> 01:30:12.179
obligation to love and not murder

01:30:09.950 --> 01:30:12.179


01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:13.650
how do molecules in motion have any

01:30:12.169 --> 01:30:13.650


01:30:12.179 --> 01:30:15.659
authority to tell you how to behave

01:30:13.640 --> 01:30:15.659


01:30:13.650 --> 01:30:17.219
when you do something wrong whose

01:30:15.649 --> 01:30:17.219


01:30:15.659 --> 01:30:19.860
standard are you breaking who are you

01:30:17.209 --> 01:30:19.860


01:30:17.219 --> 01:30:23.099
displeasing the carbon atom the benzene

01:30:19.850 --> 01:30:23.099


01:30:19.860 --> 01:30:24.960
benzene molecule who this question has

01:30:23.089 --> 01:30:24.960


01:30:23.099 --> 01:30:26.790
been asked at the Socrates answered it

01:30:24.950 --> 01:30:26.790


01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:33.780
like this when he was on trial for his

01:30:26.780 --> 01:30:33.780


01:30:26.790 --> 01:30:36.150
life accused of blasphemy by the way he

01:30:33.770 --> 01:30:36.150


01:30:33.780 --> 01:30:37.679
said that he had an inner game on the

01:30:36.140 --> 01:30:37.679


01:30:36.150 --> 01:30:40.440
way he put it not demon the demon a

01:30:37.669 --> 01:30:40.440


01:30:37.679 --> 01:30:42.780
spirit a an inner critic a conscience

01:30:40.430 --> 01:30:42.780


01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:45.510
would be one way for him and that he he

01:30:42.770 --> 01:30:45.510


01:30:42.780 --> 01:30:48.090
knew enough to know even when he was

01:30:45.500 --> 01:30:48.090


01:30:45.510 --> 01:30:49.260
making the best speech of his life that

01:30:48.080 --> 01:30:49.260


01:30:48.090 --> 01:30:52.920
if he was making a point that was

01:30:49.250 --> 01:30:52.920


01:30:49.260 --> 01:30:55.079
somehow dishonest or incomplete or shady

01:30:52.910 --> 01:30:55.079


01:30:52.920 --> 01:30:58.289
the Damon whatever yeah that was clever

01:30:55.069 --> 01:30:58.289


01:30:55.079 --> 01:31:01.199
but you shouldn't have tried it he knew

01:30:58.279 --> 01:31:01.199


01:30:58.289 --> 01:31:05.309
any any person of average moral

01:31:01.189 --> 01:31:05.309


01:31:01.199 --> 01:31:07.800
equipment has the same knowledge I hope

01:31:05.299 --> 01:31:07.800


01:31:05.309 --> 01:31:10.440
you'll if you don't I'm very sorry for

01:31:07.790 --> 01:31:10.440


01:31:07.800 --> 01:31:13.320
you Adam Smith are called it the

01:31:10.430 --> 01:31:13.320


01:31:10.440 --> 01:31:16.949
internal witness who we all have to have

01:31:13.310 --> 01:31:16.949


01:31:13.320 --> 01:31:19.500
a conversation with all the time it's

01:31:16.939 --> 01:31:19.500


01:31:16.949 --> 01:31:21.960
been CS Lewis decided to call it

01:31:19.490 --> 01:31:21.960


01:31:19.500 --> 01:31:23.400
conscience and to attribute it to the to

01:31:21.950 --> 01:31:23.400


01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:25.110
the divine but he didn't improve on what

01:31:23.390 --> 01:31:25.110


01:31:23.400 --> 01:31:27.269
Adam Smith said in Theory of Moral

01:31:25.100 --> 01:31:27.269


01:31:25.110 --> 01:31:30.000
Sentiments or what Socrates said went on

01:31:27.259 --> 01:31:30.000


01:31:27.269 --> 01:31:31.440
when standing trial for his own for his

01:31:29.990 --> 01:31:31.440


01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:33.570
own life it's something sometimes

01:31:31.430 --> 01:31:33.570


01:31:31.440 --> 01:31:36.150
colloquially defined as why do people

01:31:33.560 --> 01:31:36.150


01:31:33.570 --> 01:31:37.889
behave well when nobody is looking I

01:31:36.140 --> 01:31:37.889


01:31:36.150 --> 01:31:39.750
don't believe there's anyone in this

01:31:37.879 --> 01:31:39.750


01:31:37.889 --> 01:31:41.869
Hall who doesn't know what I mean by

01:31:39.740 --> 01:31:41.869


01:31:39.750 --> 01:31:44.429
that why when it won't do you any good

01:31:41.859 --> 01:31:44.429


01:31:41.869 --> 01:31:46.139
will you decide I could have kept that

01:31:44.419 --> 01:31:46.139


01:31:44.429 --> 01:31:47.489
wallet I found on the back of the cab

01:31:46.129 --> 01:31:47.489


01:31:46.139 --> 01:31:49.920
see but I'm not going to I'm going to

01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:49.920


01:31:47.489 --> 01:31:52.320
turn it in I'm going to see if find find

01:31:49.910 --> 01:31:52.320


01:31:49.920 --> 01:31:54.619
its real possessive there are people to

01:31:52.310 --> 01:31:54.619


01:31:52.320 --> 01:31:57.570
whom that those thoughts do not occur

01:31:54.609 --> 01:31:57.570


01:31:54.619 --> 01:31:59.280
who are deaf to that idea who only think

01:31:57.560 --> 01:31:59.280


01:31:57.570 --> 01:32:02.300
of themselves who wouldn't worry about

01:31:59.270 --> 01:32:02.300


01:31:59.280 --> 01:32:05.280
the internal game on or censor or Oh

01:32:02.290 --> 01:32:05.280


01:32:02.300 --> 01:32:08.239
companion and there are of course people

01:32:05.270 --> 01:32:08.239


01:32:05.280 --> 01:32:11.309
who only get pleasure from being

01:32:08.229 --> 01:32:11.309


01:32:08.239 --> 01:32:13.710
unpleasant to other people in inflicting

01:32:11.299 --> 01:32:13.710


01:32:11.309 --> 01:32:15.989
cruelty on them the first group we call

01:32:13.700 --> 01:32:15.989


01:32:13.710 --> 01:32:18.329
the sociopathic in the second group we

01:32:15.979 --> 01:32:18.329


01:32:15.989 --> 01:32:21.300
call the psychopathic my only plan they

01:32:18.319 --> 01:32:21.300


01:32:18.329 --> 01:32:22.440
occur in nature and in society my only

01:32:21.290 --> 01:32:22.440


01:32:21.300 --> 01:32:24.840
problem is with those who think that

01:32:22.430 --> 01:32:24.840


01:32:22.440 --> 01:32:27.090
they're all made in the image of God the

01:32:24.830 --> 01:32:27.090


01:32:24.840 --> 01:32:30.119
one explanation that absolutely doesn't

01:32:27.080 --> 01:32:30.119


01:32:27.090 --> 01:32:32.190
work at all that gets you nowhere

01:32:30.109 --> 01:32:32.190


01:32:30.119 --> 01:32:34.289
that explains nothing Christopher it's

01:32:32.180 --> 01:32:34.289


01:32:32.190 --> 01:32:36.960
your turn to ask oh really yes sir

01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:36.960


01:32:34.289 --> 01:32:38.340
well my question is this would anyone in

01:32:36.950 --> 01:32:38.340


01:32:36.960 --> 01:32:40.590
the audience like to join this

01:32:38.330 --> 01:32:40.590


01:32:38.340 --> 01:32:41.699
conversation we actually have we have

01:32:40.580 --> 01:32:41.699


01:32:40.590 --> 01:32:45.900
questions if you're ready to move along

01:32:41.689 --> 01:32:45.900


01:32:41.699 --> 01:32:48.510
yeah I am there are a couple of

01:32:45.890 --> 01:32:48.510


01:32:45.900 --> 01:32:49.829
questions a lot with several similar

01:32:48.500 --> 01:32:49.829


01:32:48.510 --> 01:32:51.239
questions the board onto a couple of

01:32:49.819 --> 01:32:51.239


01:32:49.829 --> 01:32:54.510
questions for each of you and then one

01:32:51.229 --> 01:32:54.510


01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:56.460
that I'll end with that I think is an

01:32:54.500 --> 01:32:56.460


01:32:54.510 --> 01:32:58.739
important one to address to both of you

01:32:56.450 --> 01:32:58.739


01:32:56.460 --> 01:33:01.429
since you gave your turn away mr.

01:32:58.729 --> 01:33:01.429


01:32:58.739 --> 01:33:03.900
Hitchens I'll ask you first if the

01:33:01.419 --> 01:33:03.900


01:33:01.429 --> 01:33:08.790
questioner asks if God does not exist

01:33:03.890 --> 01:33:08.790


01:33:03.900 --> 01:33:11.220
what then is the purpose of life well

01:33:08.780 --> 01:33:11.220


01:33:08.790 --> 01:33:12.390
I can only answer for myself what cheers

01:33:11.210 --> 01:33:12.390


01:33:11.220 --> 01:33:15.780
me up

01:33:12.380 --> 01:33:15.780


01:33:12.390 --> 01:33:23.820
I suppose mainly gloating over the

01:33:15.770 --> 01:33:23.820


01:33:15.780 --> 01:33:25.680
misfortunes of other people I guess then

01:33:23.810 --> 01:33:25.680


01:33:23.820 --> 01:33:27.480
and you say evil come from religion

01:33:25.670 --> 01:33:27.480


01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:30.630
master I guess that has to be I think

01:33:27.470 --> 01:33:30.630


01:33:27.480 --> 01:33:34.860
you're mainly crowing over the miseries

01:33:30.620 --> 01:33:34.860


01:33:30.630 --> 01:33:38.670
of others it doesn't always work but it

01:33:34.850 --> 01:33:38.670


01:33:34.860 --> 01:33:43.860
never completely fails and then and then

01:33:38.660 --> 01:33:43.860


01:33:38.670 --> 01:33:46.890
there's irony there's irony and which is

01:33:43.850 --> 01:33:46.890


01:33:43.860 --> 01:33:52.500
the gin in the Campari the cream in the

01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:52.500


01:33:46.890 --> 01:33:58.110
coffee sex can have diminishing returns

01:33:52.490 --> 01:33:58.110


01:33:52.500 --> 01:33:59.430
but it's amazing ah no that's pretty

01:33:58.100 --> 01:33:59.430


01:33:58.110 --> 01:34:01.610
much it there is a clear run to the

01:33:59.420 --> 01:34:01.610


01:33:59.430 --> 01:34:01.610
grave

01:34:10.660 --> 01:34:10.660


01:34:10.670 --> 01:34:18.600
dr. Turek yes do i you want me to answer

01:34:14.960 --> 01:34:18.600


01:34:14.970 --> 01:34:21.450
that or not somebody else if

01:34:18.590 --> 01:34:21.450


01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:23.520
Christianity is true then why aren't the

01:34:21.440 --> 01:34:23.520


01:34:21.450 --> 01:34:25.680
differences that Jesus makes in the

01:34:23.510 --> 01:34:25.680


01:34:23.520 --> 01:34:28.260
lives of Christians more powerful or

01:34:25.670 --> 01:34:28.260


01:34:25.680 --> 01:34:31.380
evident than the impact other religions

01:34:28.250 --> 01:34:31.380


01:34:28.260 --> 01:34:32.700
make on their adherents I don't know if

01:34:31.370 --> 01:34:32.700


01:34:31.380 --> 01:34:35.040
I accept the premise of the question

01:34:32.690 --> 01:34:35.040


01:34:32.700 --> 01:34:36.900
well the the questioner adds Gandhi was

01:34:35.030 --> 01:34:36.900


01:34:35.040 --> 01:34:38.940
every bit as influential as any

01:34:36.890 --> 01:34:38.940


01:34:36.900 --> 01:34:40.440
Christian yeah that's true and that's

01:34:38.930 --> 01:34:40.440


01:34:38.940 --> 01:34:41.820
one of the problems with Christianity

01:34:40.430 --> 01:34:41.820


01:34:40.440 --> 01:34:45.480
the biggest problem with Christianity's

01:34:41.810 --> 01:34:45.480


01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:46.770
Christians I admit it but the question

01:34:45.470 --> 01:34:46.770


01:34:45.480 --> 01:34:48.930
tonight but the question is asking a

01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:48.930


01:34:46.770 --> 01:34:51.660
more central question which is if this

01:34:48.920 --> 01:34:51.660


01:34:48.930 --> 01:34:54.960
is the truth yes why then doesn't that

01:34:51.650 --> 01:34:54.960


01:34:51.660 --> 01:34:57.840
truth by the weight of its infinite

01:34:54.950 --> 01:34:57.840


01:34:54.960 --> 01:35:00.000
being cause its adherence to behave in a

01:34:57.830 --> 01:35:00.000


01:34:57.840 --> 01:35:02.130
way that we can all notice well I think

01:34:59.990 --> 01:35:02.130


01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:03.840
you can notice it several Christians I

01:35:02.120 --> 01:35:03.840


01:35:02.130 --> 01:35:05.640
think Christians for years have been the

01:35:03.830 --> 01:35:05.640


01:35:03.840 --> 01:35:07.380
ones that have built hospitals and cared

01:35:05.630 --> 01:35:07.380


01:35:05.640 --> 01:35:08.880
for the poor and cared for the weak and

01:35:07.370 --> 01:35:08.880


01:35:07.380 --> 01:35:11.190
the sick so I think it does make a

01:35:08.870 --> 01:35:11.190


01:35:08.880 --> 01:35:12.420
difference my problem which is part of

01:35:11.180 --> 01:35:12.420


01:35:11.190 --> 01:35:14.220
the problem that the questioner is

01:35:12.410 --> 01:35:14.220


01:35:12.420 --> 01:35:15.240
asking is why doesn't it have this

01:35:14.210 --> 01:35:15.240


01:35:14.220 --> 01:35:17.130
effect on everyone

01:35:15.230 --> 01:35:17.130


01:35:15.240 --> 01:35:19.050
and I'll throw a little Christian

01:35:17.120 --> 01:35:19.050


01:35:17.130 --> 01:35:20.490
theology in here the problem is isn't

01:35:19.040 --> 01:35:20.490


01:35:19.050 --> 01:35:22.470
that we don't have all the whole court

01:35:20.480 --> 01:35:22.470


01:35:20.490 --> 01:35:25.050
if we don't have all the Holy Spirit we

01:35:22.460 --> 01:35:25.050


01:35:22.470 --> 01:35:27.060
do we just don't allow all the Holy

01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:27.060


01:35:25.050 --> 01:35:29.790
Spirit to do what it should do it's our

01:35:27.050 --> 01:35:29.790


01:35:27.060 --> 01:35:32.070
problem we are fallen human beings and

01:35:29.780 --> 01:35:32.070


01:35:29.790 --> 01:35:34.050
that's why Christ had to come because we

01:35:32.060 --> 01:35:34.050


01:35:32.070 --> 01:35:35.310
are fallen human beings and has to come

01:35:34.040 --> 01:35:35.310


01:35:34.050 --> 01:35:39.420
again because he didn't get it right the

01:35:35.300 --> 01:35:39.420


01:35:35.310 --> 01:35:41.820
first time I agree I agree with you that

01:35:39.410 --> 01:35:41.820


01:35:39.420 --> 01:35:43.710
the grammar the question is wrong but

01:35:41.810 --> 01:35:43.710


01:35:41.820 --> 01:35:46.440
for different reason I don't see what's

01:35:43.700 --> 01:35:46.440


01:35:43.710 --> 01:35:49.290
moral about Christian preaching for

01:35:46.430 --> 01:35:49.290


01:35:46.440 --> 01:35:51.330
example apart from the horrible idea of

01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:51.330


01:35:49.290 --> 01:35:53.970
vicarious Redemption

01:35:51.320 --> 01:35:53.970


01:35:51.330 --> 01:35:56.070
I'll say again in case I missed you the

01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:56.070


01:35:53.970 --> 01:35:57.780
first time what I mean by that I could

01:35:56.060 --> 01:35:57.780


01:35:56.070 --> 01:35:59.880
pay your debt even if I didn't know you

01:35:57.770 --> 01:35:59.880


01:35:57.780 --> 01:36:02.370
if I was a friend you're in debt I'll

01:35:59.870 --> 01:36:02.370


01:35:59.880 --> 01:36:04.110
pay in extreme cases people to be known

01:36:02.360 --> 01:36:04.110


01:36:02.370 --> 01:36:05.730
to sale serve your sentence in prison I

01:36:04.100 --> 01:36:05.730


01:36:04.110 --> 01:36:07.080
could do that for you what I cannot do

01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:07.080


01:36:05.730 --> 01:36:09.840
is relieve you of your responsibility I

01:36:07.070 --> 01:36:09.840


01:36:07.080 --> 01:36:12.720
can't say throw your sins on me they'll

01:36:09.830 --> 01:36:12.720


01:36:09.840 --> 01:36:14.100
melt away immoral people not allowed to

01:36:12.710 --> 01:36:14.100


01:36:12.720 --> 01:36:16.110
be you know entitled to be relieved with

01:36:14.090 --> 01:36:16.110


01:36:14.100 --> 01:36:18.210
their responsibilities and the vicarious

01:36:16.100 --> 01:36:18.210


01:36:16.110 --> 01:36:20.219
Redemption by human sacrifice is a very

01:36:18.200 --> 01:36:20.219


01:36:18.210 --> 01:36:22.769
primitive and horrible scape

01:36:20.209 --> 01:36:22.769


01:36:20.219 --> 01:36:23.820
urging idea that belongs to the barbaric

01:36:22.759 --> 01:36:23.820


01:36:22.769 --> 01:36:26.010
period of human history

01:36:23.810 --> 01:36:26.010


01:36:23.820 --> 01:36:27.360
so all pardons are immoral so no knodel

01:36:26.000 --> 01:36:27.360


01:36:26.010 --> 01:36:29.309
pardons I didn't say that I said

01:36:27.350 --> 01:36:29.309


01:36:27.360 --> 01:36:32.550
vicarious Redemption is an immoral

01:36:29.299 --> 01:36:32.550


01:36:29.309 --> 01:36:35.150
doctor it's also immoral of the Nazarene

01:36:32.540 --> 01:36:35.150


01:36:32.550 --> 01:36:37.889
to say take no thought for the morrow

01:36:35.140 --> 01:36:37.889


01:36:35.150 --> 01:36:39.719
not to clothe not to eat not to invest

01:36:37.879 --> 01:36:39.719


01:36:37.889 --> 01:36:42.809
leave your family leave your children

01:36:39.709 --> 01:36:42.809


01:36:39.719 --> 01:36:46.289
leave everything give up the world no

01:36:42.799 --> 01:36:46.289


01:36:42.809 --> 01:36:46.739
investment no thrift no thought for the

01:36:46.279 --> 01:36:46.739


01:36:46.289 --> 01:36:48.749
future

01:36:46.729 --> 01:36:48.749


01:36:46.739 --> 01:36:53.670
just follow me I think that's only moral

01:36:48.739 --> 01:36:53.670


01:36:48.749 --> 01:36:55.590
if if you are sure believer in the idea

01:36:53.660 --> 01:36:55.590


01:36:53.670 --> 01:36:58.469
the world is about to come to an end

01:36:55.580 --> 01:36:58.469


01:36:55.590 --> 01:37:00.059
which was the case with this apocalyptic

01:36:58.459 --> 01:37:00.059


01:36:58.469 --> 01:37:05.130
I guess you never read the power of the

01:37:00.049 --> 01:37:05.130


01:37:00.059 --> 01:37:07.139
talents he said the the prophecy is that

01:37:05.120 --> 01:37:07.139


01:37:05.130 --> 01:37:09.179
the world is coming to an end real soon

01:37:07.129 --> 01:37:09.179


01:37:07.139 --> 01:37:10.679
there's no point in caring about

01:37:09.169 --> 01:37:10.679


01:37:09.179 --> 01:37:14.010
anything else that's not a moral

01:37:10.669 --> 01:37:14.010


01:37:10.679 --> 01:37:15.630
preaching to me at all there are many

01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:15.630


01:37:14.010 --> 01:37:17.820
other ways in which I fail to see how

01:37:15.620 --> 01:37:17.820


01:37:15.630 --> 01:37:19.650
any bad behavior can ever be described

01:37:17.810 --> 01:37:19.650


01:37:17.820 --> 01:37:21.239
as unchristian and of course it's

01:37:19.640 --> 01:37:21.239


01:37:19.650 --> 01:37:23.460
completely laughable to say Christians

01:37:21.229 --> 01:37:23.460


01:37:21.239 --> 01:37:25.469
build hospitals they've just many

01:37:23.450 --> 01:37:25.469


01:37:23.460 --> 01:37:27.510
Christians have bombed hospitals have

01:37:25.459 --> 01:37:27.510


01:37:25.469 --> 01:37:29.489
built them and as many Muslims have

01:37:27.500 --> 01:37:29.489


01:37:27.510 --> 01:37:32.880
built hospitals as Christians have and

01:37:29.479 --> 01:37:32.880


01:37:29.489 --> 01:37:34.710
as many Babylonians have built great

01:37:32.870 --> 01:37:34.710


01:37:32.880 --> 01:37:36.449
buildings as Christians have if that's

01:37:34.700 --> 01:37:36.449


01:37:34.710 --> 01:37:40.590
the best you can do that's the best you

01:37:36.439 --> 01:37:40.590


01:37:36.449 --> 01:37:44.309
can do one of the questioners repeats a

01:37:40.580 --> 01:37:44.309


01:37:40.590 --> 01:37:45.809
a point from dr. Turks opening statement

01:37:44.299 --> 01:37:45.809


01:37:44.309 --> 01:37:48.659
to that apparently here she feels you

01:37:45.799 --> 01:37:48.659


01:37:45.809 --> 01:37:51.329
did not address mr. Hitchens about the

01:37:48.649 --> 01:37:51.329


01:37:48.659 --> 01:37:53.699
irreducible complexity of DNA and is it

01:37:51.319 --> 01:37:53.699


01:37:51.329 --> 01:37:57.869
possible for such structures to have

01:37:53.689 --> 01:37:57.869


01:37:53.699 --> 01:37:59.369
formed by chance well though - I have

01:37:57.859 --> 01:37:59.369


01:37:57.869 --> 01:38:01.940
two responses to that one is what would

01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:01.940


01:37:59.369 --> 01:38:05.330
she have said before she knew about DNA

01:38:01.930 --> 01:38:05.330


01:38:01.940 --> 01:38:07.400
what does that have to do with anything

01:38:05.320 --> 01:38:07.400


01:38:05.330 --> 01:38:08.720
we're just existed prior to anyone

01:38:07.390 --> 01:38:08.720


01:38:07.400 --> 01:38:10.700
knowing about them yes

01:38:08.710 --> 01:38:10.700


01:38:08.720 --> 01:38:11.810
it's gravity existed before we knew

01:38:10.690 --> 01:38:11.810


01:38:10.700 --> 01:38:13.430
about it that's true you need an

01:38:11.800 --> 01:38:13.430


01:38:11.810 --> 01:38:14.840
explanation right and Christianity

01:38:13.420 --> 01:38:14.840


01:38:13.430 --> 01:38:17.150
thought it could explain everything and

01:38:14.830 --> 01:38:17.150


01:38:14.840 --> 01:38:19.010
then it fell not everything's wait this

01:38:17.140 --> 01:38:19.010


01:38:17.150 --> 01:38:21.380
very simple same as your point about

01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:21.380


01:38:19.010 --> 01:38:24.260
molecules that I said these arguments

01:38:21.370 --> 01:38:24.260


01:38:21.380 --> 01:38:26.450
predate Epicurus Lucretius and the

01:38:24.250 --> 01:38:26.450


01:38:24.260 --> 01:38:28.460
atomic theory christianity used to say

01:38:26.440 --> 01:38:28.460


01:38:26.450 --> 01:38:29.810
can explain everything it is all you

01:38:28.450 --> 01:38:29.810


01:38:28.460 --> 01:38:31.670
need to know is there's no powerful or

01:38:29.800 --> 01:38:31.670


01:38:29.810 --> 01:38:33.770
loving or intervening all-knowing

01:38:31.660 --> 01:38:33.770


01:38:31.670 --> 01:38:36.170
omniscient God

01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:36.170


01:38:33.770 --> 01:38:37.970
okay well then wait wouldn't DNA explain

01:38:36.160 --> 01:38:37.970


01:38:36.170 --> 01:38:40.340
more ah well that only shows that God's

01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:40.340


01:38:37.970 --> 01:38:42.950
even cleverer than we thought so it's an

01:38:40.330 --> 01:38:42.950


01:38:40.340 --> 01:38:45.680
infinitely expanding tautology

01:38:42.940 --> 01:38:45.680


01:38:42.950 --> 01:38:47.210
there are many of the some Christians

01:38:45.670 --> 01:38:47.210


01:38:45.680 --> 01:38:49.550
who accept in fact it was actually a

01:38:47.200 --> 01:38:49.550


01:38:47.210 --> 01:38:52.730
catholic physicist at the University of

01:38:49.540 --> 01:38:52.730


01:38:49.550 --> 01:38:53.960
Leuven in Belgium who first came up with

01:38:52.720 --> 01:38:53.960


01:38:52.730 --> 01:38:58.160
the idea of what we now call the Big

01:38:53.950 --> 01:38:58.160


01:38:53.960 --> 01:38:59.900
Bang and most Pope's not all most Pope's

01:38:58.150 --> 01:38:59.900


01:38:58.160 --> 01:39:02.120
have accepted it someone thought of it

01:38:59.890 --> 01:39:02.120


01:38:59.900 --> 01:39:04.010
as a challenge to Christianity the Pope

01:39:02.110 --> 01:39:04.010


01:39:02.120 --> 01:39:05.390
Leo who he went to the I can't remember

01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:05.390


01:39:04.010 --> 01:39:07.910
the scientists name for a second maybe

01:39:05.380 --> 01:39:07.910


01:39:05.390 --> 01:39:09.950
someone here can help me he went to the

01:39:07.900 --> 01:39:09.950


01:39:07.910 --> 01:39:11.570
Pope said look that looks like this is

01:39:09.940 --> 01:39:11.570


01:39:09.950 --> 01:39:13.580
how things started the Pope said if you

01:39:11.560 --> 01:39:13.580


01:39:11.570 --> 01:39:15.830
like I'll make it a dogma that every

01:39:13.570 --> 01:39:15.830


01:39:13.580 --> 01:39:17.390
Catholic has to believe it said that

01:39:15.820 --> 01:39:17.390


01:39:15.830 --> 01:39:19.880
would be slightly missing the point your

01:39:17.380 --> 01:39:19.880


01:39:17.390 --> 01:39:22.010
holiness as for what it is they do with

01:39:19.870 --> 01:39:22.010


01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:25.690
the origin to be ended well because the

01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:25.690


01:39:22.010 --> 01:39:28.040
it is true to say that religion as

01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:28.040


01:39:25.690 --> 01:39:30.560
Stephen Jay Gould said the religion and

01:39:28.030 --> 01:39:30.560


01:39:28.040 --> 01:39:33.200
science belonged to non-overlapping

01:39:30.550 --> 01:39:33.200


01:39:30.560 --> 01:39:35.810
magisteria I think these magisteria are

01:39:33.190 --> 01:39:35.810


01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:38.660
in many ways incompatible and in many

01:39:35.800 --> 01:39:38.660


01:39:35.810 --> 01:39:40.970
ways irreconcilable but it is no more

01:39:38.650 --> 01:39:40.970


01:39:38.660 --> 01:39:44.120
true to say that the existence of the

01:39:40.960 --> 01:39:44.120


01:39:40.970 --> 01:39:46.520
complexity of DNA shows that God was

01:39:44.110 --> 01:39:46.520


01:39:44.120 --> 01:39:48.470
more ingenious than we thought than it

01:39:46.510 --> 01:39:48.470


01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:51.530
is to say that it necessarily shows by

01:39:48.460 --> 01:39:51.530


01:39:48.470 --> 01:39:54.380
its self revealing ingenuity that we

01:39:51.520 --> 01:39:54.380


01:39:51.530 --> 01:39:55.730
don't need the hypothesis of God both of

01:39:54.370 --> 01:39:55.730


01:39:54.380 --> 01:39:58.280
these positions would be in my opinion

01:39:55.720 --> 01:39:58.280


01:39:55.730 --> 01:40:00.470
somewhat reductionist though I would

01:39:58.270 --> 01:40:00.470


01:39:58.280 --> 01:40:02.210
have to say that I think the second one

01:40:00.460 --> 01:40:02.210


01:40:00.470 --> 01:40:04.300
is more persuasive and more elegant

01:40:02.200 --> 01:40:04.300


01:40:02.210 --> 01:40:07.520
now Gould is wrong will that do

01:40:04.290 --> 01:40:07.520


01:40:04.300 --> 01:40:09.170
Christians or religious people religion

01:40:07.510 --> 01:40:09.170


01:40:07.520 --> 01:40:10.850
is trying to find out what how the

01:40:09.160 --> 01:40:10.850


01:40:09.170 --> 01:40:12.890
universe began it's always science

01:40:10.840 --> 01:40:12.890


01:40:10.850 --> 01:40:14.900
they're not no religion says it does no

01:40:12.880 --> 01:40:14.900


01:40:12.890 --> 01:40:16.420
excuse me it's try it drives can also

01:40:14.890 --> 01:40:16.420


01:40:14.900 --> 01:40:19.390
process of scientific and

01:40:16.410 --> 01:40:19.390


01:40:16.420 --> 01:40:22.090
religion is an affirmation of faith it

01:40:19.380 --> 01:40:22.090


01:40:19.390 --> 01:40:24.429
says a radius person Christopher says it

01:40:22.080 --> 01:40:24.429


01:40:22.090 --> 01:40:26.199
always be evidence to try and point out

01:40:24.419 --> 01:40:26.199


01:40:24.429 --> 01:40:28.000
that the universe exploded into being

01:40:26.189 --> 01:40:28.000


01:40:26.199 --> 01:40:29.050
out of nothing and you have scientific

01:40:27.990 --> 01:40:29.050


01:40:28.000 --> 01:40:30.670
evidence for the view that an

01:40:29.040 --> 01:40:30.670


01:40:29.050 --> 01:40:33.219
intervention will occur to prevent the

01:40:30.660 --> 01:40:33.219


01:40:30.670 --> 01:40:35.730
implosion and don't forget that ah let's

01:40:33.209 --> 01:40:35.730


01:40:33.219 --> 01:40:38.260
start at the beginning I can't forget it

01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:38.260


01:40:35.730 --> 01:40:40.179
let's start at the beginning there may

01:40:38.250 --> 01:40:40.179


01:40:38.260 --> 01:40:45.400
be anything you've said all evening I'm

01:40:40.169 --> 01:40:45.400


01:40:40.179 --> 01:40:48.969
going to remember Joe that's for debate

01:40:45.390 --> 01:40:48.969


01:40:45.400 --> 01:40:51.370
- no no I mean don't say you what here

01:40:48.959 --> 01:40:51.370


01:40:48.969 --> 01:40:54.610
do yourself do yourself your faith the

01:40:51.360 --> 01:40:54.610


01:40:51.370 --> 01:40:56.679
honor of saying it's faith generally no

01:40:54.600 --> 01:40:56.679


01:40:54.610 --> 01:40:57.580
Lance Bass the argument you get away

01:40:56.669 --> 01:40:57.580


01:40:56.679 --> 01:40:59.199
with it

01:40:57.570 --> 01:40:59.199


01:40:57.580 --> 01:41:01.300
look the argument would be Christopher

01:40:59.189 --> 01:41:01.300


01:40:59.199 --> 01:41:03.550
is that if the universe exploded into

01:41:01.290 --> 01:41:03.550


01:41:01.300 --> 01:41:04.989
being out of nothing then miracles are

01:41:03.540 --> 01:41:04.989


01:41:03.550 --> 01:41:07.360
possible because the greatest miracle of

01:41:04.979 --> 01:41:07.360


01:41:04.989 --> 01:41:09.040
all has already occurred the question is

01:41:07.350 --> 01:41:09.040


01:41:07.360 --> 01:41:10.900
have miracles occurred in the first

01:41:09.030 --> 01:41:10.900


01:41:09.040 --> 01:41:12.670
century mirror that requires another

01:41:10.890 --> 01:41:12.670


01:41:10.900 --> 01:41:14.860
debate whereby we have to look at the

01:41:12.660 --> 01:41:14.860


01:41:12.670 --> 01:41:18.699
historical evidence and see and if it is

01:41:14.850 --> 01:41:18.699


01:41:14.860 --> 01:41:20.260
true that the that Jesus really did come

01:41:18.689 --> 01:41:20.260


01:41:18.699 --> 01:41:22.179
and say and do the things that the New

01:41:20.250 --> 01:41:22.179


01:41:20.260 --> 01:41:24.040
Testament writers said he did then

01:41:22.169 --> 01:41:24.040


01:41:22.179 --> 01:41:25.510
whatever he teaches is true because if

01:41:24.030 --> 01:41:25.510


01:41:24.040 --> 01:41:26.830
he rose from the dead he was God if he

01:41:25.500 --> 01:41:26.830


01:41:25.510 --> 01:41:28.300
taught that there will be an

01:41:26.820 --> 01:41:28.300


01:41:26.830 --> 01:41:31.800
intervention then there will be that's

01:41:28.290 --> 01:41:31.800


01:41:28.300 --> 01:41:31.800
the argument enough time to support it

01:41:38.660 --> 01:41:38.660


01:41:38.670 --> 01:41:41.969
you'll need it

01:41:43.120 --> 01:41:43.120


01:41:43.130 --> 01:41:51.750
it's fallen off if I a sentence or two

01:41:50.090 --> 01:41:51.750


01:41:50.100 --> 01:41:54.900
from David Hume would correct what you

01:41:51.740 --> 01:41:54.900


01:41:51.750 --> 01:41:56.430
sow a miracle is defined not as a part

01:41:54.890 --> 01:41:56.430


01:41:54.900 --> 01:41:58.620
of the natural order but as a suspension

01:41:56.420 --> 01:41:58.620


01:41:56.430 --> 01:42:00.960
of the natural no an interval you can't

01:41:58.610 --> 01:42:00.960


01:41:58.620 --> 01:42:02.400
say I'll say of a of the Big Bang which

01:42:00.950 --> 01:42:02.400


01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:04.530
is the foundation of a natural order

01:42:02.390 --> 01:42:04.530


01:42:02.400 --> 01:42:07.350
that it's a suspension of what it starts

01:42:04.520 --> 01:42:07.350


01:42:04.530 --> 01:42:09.480
you may not do that however if you meet

01:42:07.340 --> 01:42:09.480


01:42:07.350 --> 01:42:13.260
someone in the street who you yesterday

01:42:09.470 --> 01:42:13.260


01:42:09.480 --> 01:42:15.060
saw executed you can say either that an

01:42:13.250 --> 01:42:15.060


01:42:13.260 --> 01:42:17.520
extraordinary miracle has occurred or

01:42:15.050 --> 01:42:17.520


01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:22.320
that you are under a very grave

01:42:17.510 --> 01:42:22.320


01:42:17.520 --> 01:42:23.820
misapprehension and David Humes logic on

01:42:22.310 --> 01:42:23.820


01:42:22.320 --> 01:42:27.030
this I think is quite irrefutable he

01:42:23.810 --> 01:42:27.030


01:42:23.820 --> 01:42:29.219
says what is more likely that the laws

01:42:27.020 --> 01:42:29.219


01:42:27.030 --> 01:42:31.440
of nature have been suspended in your

01:42:29.209 --> 01:42:31.440


01:42:29.219 --> 01:42:35.010
favor and in a way that you approve all

01:42:31.430 --> 01:42:35.010


01:42:31.440 --> 01:42:37.170
that you've made a mistake and in each

01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:37.170


01:42:35.010 --> 01:42:39.030
case you must especially if you didn't

01:42:37.160 --> 01:42:39.030


01:42:37.170 --> 01:42:41.820
see it yourself and you're hearing it

01:42:39.020 --> 01:42:41.820


01:42:39.030 --> 01:42:43.170
from someone who says that they did I

01:42:41.810 --> 01:42:43.170


01:42:41.820 --> 01:42:45.989
would go further and say the following

01:42:43.160 --> 01:42:45.989


01:42:43.170 --> 01:42:49.050
I'll grant you that it would be possible

01:42:45.979 --> 01:42:49.050


01:42:45.989 --> 01:42:50.520
to track the pregnancy of the woman Mary

01:42:49.040 --> 01:42:50.520


01:42:49.050 --> 01:42:53.670
who's mentioned about three times in the

01:42:50.510 --> 01:42:53.670


01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:57.870
Bible and - sure there was no male

01:42:53.660 --> 01:42:57.870


01:42:53.670 --> 01:43:01.350
intervention in her life at all but yet

01:42:57.860 --> 01:43:01.350


01:42:57.870 --> 01:43:01.680
she delivered herself of a healthy baby

01:43:01.340 --> 01:43:01.680


01:43:01.350 --> 01:43:04.469
boy

01:43:01.670 --> 01:43:04.469


01:43:01.680 --> 01:43:05.510
with I can say I don't say that's

01:43:04.459 --> 01:43:05.510


01:43:04.469 --> 01:43:07.620
impossible

01:43:05.500 --> 01:43:07.620


01:43:05.510 --> 01:43:09.270
parthenogenesis is not completely

01:43:07.610 --> 01:43:09.270


01:43:07.620 --> 01:43:13.020
unthinkable but it does not prove that

01:43:09.260 --> 01:43:13.020


01:43:09.270 --> 01:43:15.060
his paternity is divine and it wouldn't

01:43:13.010 --> 01:43:15.060


01:43:13.020 --> 01:43:19.620
prove that any of his moral teachings

01:43:15.050 --> 01:43:19.620


01:43:15.060 --> 01:43:21.270
were thereby correct nor if I was to see

01:43:19.610 --> 01:43:21.270


01:43:19.620 --> 01:43:23.430
him executed one day and see him walking

01:43:21.260 --> 01:43:23.430


01:43:21.270 --> 01:43:25.500
the streets the next would that show

01:43:23.420 --> 01:43:25.500


01:43:23.430 --> 01:43:27.239
that he's father was God or his mother

01:43:25.490 --> 01:43:27.239


01:43:25.500 --> 01:43:29.160
was a virgin all that his teachings were

01:43:27.229 --> 01:43:29.160


01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:31.110
true especially given the commonplace

01:43:29.150 --> 01:43:31.110


01:43:29.160 --> 01:43:34.590
nature of Resurrection at that time in

01:43:31.100 --> 01:43:34.590


01:43:31.110 --> 01:43:36.570
place after all Lazarus was raised never

01:43:34.580 --> 01:43:36.570


01:43:34.590 --> 01:43:38.460
said a word about it the Daughter of

01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:38.460


01:43:36.570 --> 01:43:41.370
Jairus was raised didn't say a thing

01:43:38.450 --> 01:43:41.370


01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:42.719
about what she'd been through and the

01:43:41.360 --> 01:43:42.719


01:43:41.370 --> 01:43:44.760
Gospels tell us that at the time of the

01:43:42.709 --> 01:43:44.760


01:43:42.719 --> 01:43:46.620
crucifixion all the graves in Jerusalem

01:43:44.750 --> 01:43:46.620


01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:49.110
opened and their occupants wandered

01:43:46.610 --> 01:43:49.110


01:43:46.620 --> 01:43:51.840
around the streets to greet so the

01:43:49.100 --> 01:43:51.840


01:43:49.110 --> 01:43:54.510
resurrection was a something of a banal

01:43:51.830 --> 01:43:54.510


01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:57.060
at the time not all not all of those

01:43:54.500 --> 01:43:57.060


01:43:54.510 --> 01:43:59.969
people clearly were divinely conceived

01:43:57.050 --> 01:43:59.969


01:43:57.060 --> 01:44:02.190
so I'll give you all the miracles and

01:43:59.959 --> 01:44:02.190


01:43:59.969 --> 01:44:04.860
you'll still be left exactly where you

01:44:02.180 --> 01:44:04.860


01:44:02.190 --> 01:44:07.159
are now holding an empty sack no

01:44:04.850 --> 01:44:07.159


01:44:04.860 --> 01:44:09.690
Christopher you have to look at each

01:44:07.149 --> 01:44:09.690


01:44:07.159 --> 01:44:12.630
miracle in light of the evidence and the

01:44:09.680 --> 01:44:12.630


01:44:09.690 --> 01:44:14.969
context um was wrong because his premise

01:44:12.620 --> 01:44:14.969


01:44:12.630 --> 01:44:16.440
that was wrong was the one that said the

01:44:14.959 --> 01:44:16.440


01:44:14.969 --> 01:44:18.599
evidence for the regular is always

01:44:16.430 --> 01:44:18.599


01:44:16.440 --> 01:44:20.550
greater than that for the rare it's not

01:44:18.589 --> 01:44:20.550


01:44:18.599 --> 01:44:22.710
from Yume's own worldview if you were

01:44:20.540 --> 01:44:22.710


01:44:20.550 --> 01:44:25.710
you if you were here today he wouldn't

01:44:22.700 --> 01:44:25.710


01:44:22.710 --> 01:44:27.480
even believe in the Big Bang because it

01:44:25.700 --> 01:44:27.480


01:44:25.710 --> 01:44:28.679
only happened once it's not a regular

01:44:27.470 --> 01:44:28.679


01:44:27.480 --> 01:44:30.869
event it happened once he wouldn't

01:44:28.669 --> 01:44:30.869


01:44:28.679 --> 01:44:32.580
believe in the spontaneous generation of

01:44:30.859 --> 01:44:32.580


01:44:30.869 --> 01:44:34.530
life which is what a materialist must

01:44:32.570 --> 01:44:34.530


01:44:32.580 --> 01:44:35.760
believe because it only happened once he

01:44:34.520 --> 01:44:35.760


01:44:34.530 --> 01:44:37.409
wouldn't believe in his own birth

01:44:35.750 --> 01:44:37.409


01:44:35.760 --> 01:44:38.580
because it only happened once in fact he

01:44:37.399 --> 01:44:38.580


01:44:37.409 --> 01:44:40.770
wouldn't be able to believe in the whole

01:44:38.570 --> 01:44:40.770


01:44:38.580 --> 01:44:42.030
history of our solar system because it

01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:42.030


01:44:40.770 --> 01:44:44.429
only happened once you don't need

01:44:42.020 --> 01:44:44.429


01:44:42.030 --> 01:44:46.920
regular events to know whether or not

01:44:44.419 --> 01:44:46.920


01:44:44.429 --> 01:44:48.449
something happened singular events

01:44:46.910 --> 01:44:48.449


01:44:46.920 --> 01:44:49.230
happen all the time this debate will

01:44:48.439 --> 01:44:49.230


01:44:48.449 --> 01:44:51.360
never happen again

01:44:49.220 --> 01:44:51.360


01:44:49.230 --> 01:44:53.699
yet you're here to witness it there's a

01:44:51.350 --> 01:44:53.699


01:44:51.360 --> 01:44:56.250
there's a I mean I'm just going to put

01:44:53.689 --> 01:44:56.250


01:44:53.699 --> 01:44:57.449
my repose my trust in the audience here

01:44:56.240 --> 01:44:57.449


01:44:56.250 --> 01:44:59.639
there's a there's an obvious difference

01:44:57.439 --> 01:44:59.639


01:44:57.449 --> 01:45:01.619
between a singularity and a miracle and

01:44:59.629 --> 01:45:01.619


01:44:59.639 --> 01:45:04.560
I I mean I think it would be

01:45:01.609 --> 01:45:04.560


01:45:01.619 --> 01:45:08.099
embarrassing to try and explain it will

01:45:04.550 --> 01:45:08.099


01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:12.050
be patronizing to dr. Turek why a member

01:45:08.089 --> 01:45:12.050


01:45:08.099 --> 01:45:15.590
of the audience takes issue with your

01:45:12.040 --> 01:45:15.590


01:45:12.050 --> 01:45:21.889
claim that objective morality

01:45:15.580 --> 01:45:21.889


01:45:15.590 --> 01:45:24.989
necessarily relies in an absolute deity

01:45:21.879 --> 01:45:24.989


01:45:21.889 --> 01:45:27.060
asking instead what about empathy for

01:45:24.979 --> 01:45:27.060


01:45:24.989 --> 01:45:29.659
which there are significant apparent

01:45:27.050 --> 01:45:29.659


01:45:27.060 --> 01:45:32.550
biological basis right in here that

01:45:29.649 --> 01:45:32.550


01:45:29.659 --> 01:45:34.170
empathy for which there are fairly

01:45:32.540 --> 01:45:34.170


01:45:32.550 --> 01:45:36.840
well-established apologies he's a very

01:45:34.160 --> 01:45:36.840


01:45:34.170 --> 01:45:40.380
human emotion cannot empathy lead to

01:45:36.830 --> 01:45:40.380


01:45:36.840 --> 01:45:41.969
morality is it right to be empathetic

01:45:40.370 --> 01:45:41.969


01:45:40.380 --> 01:45:44.310
that's the question I'm not saying

01:45:41.959 --> 01:45:44.310


01:45:41.969 --> 01:45:47.550
there's no chemical connection between

01:45:44.300 --> 01:45:47.550


01:45:44.310 --> 01:45:50.040
morality and or for morality I should

01:45:47.540 --> 01:45:50.040


01:45:47.550 --> 01:45:52.020
say I'm there certainly when we think

01:45:50.030 --> 01:45:52.020


01:45:50.040 --> 01:45:54.840
they're chemicals going on the question

01:45:52.010 --> 01:45:54.840


01:45:52.020 --> 01:45:56.940
is what is the standard that makes

01:45:54.830 --> 01:45:56.940


01:45:54.840 --> 01:45:59.550
empathy or love right what is the

01:45:56.930 --> 01:45:59.550


01:45:56.940 --> 01:46:02.849
chemical composition of love what is the

01:45:59.540 --> 01:46:02.849


01:45:59.550 --> 01:46:04.199
what how much does justice way well

01:46:02.839 --> 01:46:04.199


01:46:02.849 --> 01:46:05.830
these are all things that make no sense

01:46:04.189 --> 01:46:05.830


01:46:04.199 --> 01:46:07.120
in a materialistic world

01:46:05.820 --> 01:46:07.120


01:46:05.830 --> 01:46:09.610
but that's not entirely true let's say

01:46:07.110 --> 01:46:09.610


01:46:07.120 --> 01:46:11.590
for example that neurocognitive

01:46:09.600 --> 01:46:11.590


01:46:09.610 --> 01:46:14.950
neuroscientists are able to determine

01:46:11.580 --> 01:46:14.950


01:46:11.590 --> 01:46:16.780
with scientific levels of precision that

01:46:14.940 --> 01:46:16.780


01:46:14.950 --> 01:46:19.900
in fact certain neuro chemical and

01:46:16.770 --> 01:46:19.900


01:46:16.780 --> 01:46:21.550
cognitive events always essentially

01:46:19.890 --> 01:46:21.550


01:46:19.900 --> 01:46:24.040
always co-occur with the experience of

01:46:21.540 --> 01:46:24.040


01:46:21.550 --> 01:46:26.800
empathy but that wouldn't mean that

01:46:24.030 --> 01:46:26.800


01:46:24.040 --> 01:46:28.210
empathy is right see there may be

01:46:26.790 --> 01:46:28.210


01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:31.210
chemical compositions that cause that

01:46:28.200 --> 01:46:31.210


01:46:28.210 --> 01:46:32.980
guy to chop that guy's head off on the

01:46:31.200 --> 01:46:32.980


01:46:31.210 --> 01:46:35.080
Canadian bus that wouldn't make it right

01:46:32.970 --> 01:46:35.080


01:46:32.980 --> 01:46:36.580
the question is what makes something

01:46:35.070 --> 01:46:36.580


01:46:35.080 --> 01:46:39.070
right in a materialist

01:46:36.570 --> 01:46:39.070


01:46:36.580 --> 01:46:41.080
worldview there's nothing that can make

01:46:39.060 --> 01:46:41.080


01:46:39.070 --> 01:46:42.850
something right or wrong as David Hume

01:46:41.070 --> 01:46:42.850


01:46:41.080 --> 01:46:47.770
has said you cannot get an author from

01:46:42.840 --> 01:46:47.770


01:46:42.850 --> 01:46:50.850
it is well happy to agree with that I

01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:50.850


01:46:47.770 --> 01:46:55.200
mean I think I think that's true but um

01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:55.200


01:46:50.850 --> 01:46:58.540
but I have to add only that there are

01:46:55.190 --> 01:46:58.540


01:46:55.200 --> 01:47:02.080
we've all song has to be lucky enough to

01:46:58.530 --> 01:47:02.080


01:46:58.540 --> 01:47:03.250
see it or meet people who've done it and

01:47:02.070 --> 01:47:03.250


01:47:02.080 --> 01:47:05.230
all of us it's read about there are

01:47:03.240 --> 01:47:05.230


01:47:03.250 --> 01:47:10.090
people who will when they when a grenade

01:47:05.220 --> 01:47:10.090


01:47:05.230 --> 01:47:11.410
is lobbed through the window throw

01:47:10.080 --> 01:47:11.410


01:47:10.090 --> 01:47:15.190
themselves on it before it can blow up

01:47:11.400 --> 01:47:15.190


01:47:11.410 --> 01:47:20.110
it does happen there are people who who

01:47:15.180 --> 01:47:20.110


01:47:15.190 --> 01:47:22.180
died under torture without giving away

01:47:20.100 --> 01:47:22.180


01:47:20.110 --> 01:47:24.300
the whereabouts of their comrades there

01:47:22.170 --> 01:47:24.300


01:47:22.180 --> 01:47:29.110
are people who go do bomb disposal

01:47:24.290 --> 01:47:29.110


01:47:24.300 --> 01:47:29.800
working defusing huge device they know a

01:47:29.100 --> 01:47:29.800


01:47:29.110 --> 01:47:33.100
minute

01:47:29.790 --> 01:47:33.100


01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:35.410
it does happen it's always happened it's

01:47:33.090 --> 01:47:35.410


01:47:33.100 --> 01:47:37.420
common to every known human society it's

01:47:35.400 --> 01:47:37.420


01:47:35.410 --> 01:47:39.430
a part of every heroic narrative of

01:47:37.410 --> 01:47:39.430


01:47:37.420 --> 01:47:41.580
every known Society there's ever been

01:47:39.420 --> 01:47:41.580


01:47:39.430 --> 01:47:45.040
those who do it are honored

01:47:41.570 --> 01:47:45.040


01:47:41.580 --> 01:47:47.650
they are sung as we say and the times

01:47:45.030 --> 01:47:47.650


01:47:45.040 --> 01:47:52.800
when there was no literate no literal

01:47:47.640 --> 01:47:52.800


01:47:47.650 --> 01:47:56.590
record and it doesn't require divine

01:47:52.790 --> 01:47:56.590


01:47:52.800 --> 01:47:59.770
sanction or permission it is we're proud

01:47:56.580 --> 01:47:59.770


01:47:56.590 --> 01:48:02.770
to say if not innate in us we would be

01:47:59.760 --> 01:48:02.770


01:47:59.770 --> 01:48:04.300
too humble to say that it's in Asian our

01:48:02.760 --> 01:48:04.300


01:48:02.770 --> 01:48:07.420
species is something we can all aspire

01:48:04.290 --> 01:48:07.420


01:48:04.300 --> 01:48:11.380
here yes you know we do not we do not

01:48:07.410 --> 01:48:11.380


01:48:07.420 --> 01:48:13.270
get it from Big Brother if we did that

01:48:11.370 --> 01:48:13.270


01:48:11.380 --> 01:48:13.900
would degrade it it would mean it wasn't

01:48:13.260 --> 01:48:13.900


01:48:13.270 --> 01:48:17.260
heroic

01:48:13.890 --> 01:48:17.260


01:48:13.900 --> 01:48:19.639
it wasn't brave it wasn't individual it

01:48:17.250 --> 01:48:19.639


01:48:17.260 --> 01:48:21.170
wasn't exemplar why are these things

01:48:19.629 --> 01:48:21.170


01:48:19.639 --> 01:48:23.000
of anything what I would because it

01:48:21.160 --> 01:48:23.000


01:48:21.170 --> 01:48:24.980
would be in the hope either of a reward

01:48:22.990 --> 01:48:24.980


01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:26.210
from Big Brother or for fear of

01:48:24.970 --> 01:48:26.210


01:48:24.980 --> 01:48:30.710
punishment from it it would have

01:48:26.200 --> 01:48:30.710


01:48:26.210 --> 01:48:34.520
robotics morality weiss Troy's ethics it

01:48:30.700 --> 01:48:34.520


01:48:30.710 --> 01:48:37.750
means it means the end it means the it

01:48:34.510 --> 01:48:37.750


01:48:34.520 --> 01:48:39.790
means the individual example is dust

01:48:37.740 --> 01:48:39.790


01:48:37.750 --> 01:48:41.869
Christopher you've already abolished

01:48:39.780 --> 01:48:41.869


01:48:39.790 --> 01:48:43.550
validated by your materialistic

01:48:41.859 --> 01:48:43.550


01:48:41.869 --> 01:48:45.770
worldview there's no such thing as

01:48:43.540 --> 01:48:45.770


01:48:43.550 --> 01:48:54.110
morality if you're just a bunch of

01:48:45.760 --> 01:48:54.110


01:48:45.770 --> 01:48:55.340
chemicals weight Sigma it's okay I

01:48:54.100 --> 01:48:55.340


01:48:54.110 --> 01:48:59.869
already know some people will clap

01:48:55.330 --> 01:48:59.869


01:48:55.340 --> 01:49:02.960
anything I do you need to say do you

01:48:59.859 --> 01:49:02.960


01:48:59.869 --> 01:49:04.969
mean to say that the human that the body

01:49:02.950 --> 01:49:04.969


01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:07.400
of a mammal the primate is not the

01:49:04.959 --> 01:49:07.400


01:49:04.969 --> 01:49:08.869
chemical composition no it is oh good

01:49:07.390 --> 01:49:08.869


01:49:07.400 --> 01:49:10.639
I'm questioning why do you why do you

01:49:08.859 --> 01:49:10.639


01:49:08.869 --> 01:49:12.199
why do you act as if this has only just

01:49:10.629 --> 01:49:12.199


01:49:10.639 --> 01:49:14.750
been discovered and as if it's a

01:49:12.189 --> 01:49:14.750


01:49:12.199 --> 01:49:16.880
theological point because you apparently

01:49:14.740 --> 01:49:16.880


01:49:14.750 --> 01:49:19.850
have I say that although I I would

01:49:16.870 --> 01:49:19.850


01:49:16.880 --> 01:49:24.290
rather say in spite of the fact that I

01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:24.290


01:49:19.850 --> 01:49:26.480
am a primate or not

01:49:24.280 --> 01:49:26.480


01:49:24.290 --> 01:49:28.159
notwithstanding perhaps I'd better say

01:49:26.470 --> 01:49:28.159


01:49:26.480 --> 01:49:30.639
that I am Brahman nonetheless I'm

01:49:28.149 --> 01:49:30.639


01:49:28.159 --> 01:49:33.409
capable of thinking about heroism

01:49:30.629 --> 01:49:33.409


01:49:30.639 --> 01:49:34.820
self-sacrifice example and so forth why

01:49:33.399 --> 01:49:34.820


01:49:33.409 --> 01:49:36.800
are all those things turn to me and say

01:49:34.810 --> 01:49:36.800


01:49:34.820 --> 01:49:38.030
how did you say that and be a primate

01:49:36.790 --> 01:49:38.030


01:49:36.800 --> 01:49:40.040
why I go I'm eight

01:49:38.020 --> 01:49:40.040


01:49:38.030 --> 01:49:42.969
I can't also the fact that I'm a primate

01:49:40.030 --> 01:49:42.969


01:49:40.040 --> 01:49:46.310
I can concede it better than some people

01:49:42.959 --> 01:49:46.310


01:49:42.969 --> 01:49:47.810
that's the best I can do why your ear I

01:49:46.300 --> 01:49:47.810


01:49:46.310 --> 01:49:51.619
made as well you'll have to agree with

01:49:47.800 --> 01:49:51.619


01:49:47.810 --> 01:49:53.540
both of us that it shows okay let me

01:49:51.609 --> 01:49:53.540


01:49:51.619 --> 01:49:56.630
let's finish with this which is the

01:49:53.530 --> 01:49:56.630


01:49:53.540 --> 01:50:00.949
fundamental question and I think

01:49:56.620 --> 01:50:00.949


01:49:56.630 --> 01:50:02.719
deserves serious answer the writer says

01:50:00.939 --> 01:50:02.719


01:50:00.949 --> 01:50:06.790
gentlemen I'd venture to say that no one

01:50:02.709 --> 01:50:06.790


01:50:02.719 --> 01:50:06.790
no one is two words by the way

01:50:07.369 --> 01:50:07.369


01:50:07.379 --> 01:50:12.539
no one came into this room without

01:50:09.619 --> 01:50:12.539


01:50:09.629 --> 01:50:15.899
already deciding who he or she agrees

01:50:12.529 --> 01:50:15.899


01:50:12.539 --> 01:50:20.429
with and no one will leave with a

01:50:15.889 --> 01:50:20.429


01:50:15.899 --> 01:50:23.579
different mindset what would it take for

01:50:20.419 --> 01:50:23.579


01:50:20.429 --> 01:50:25.530
each of you what evidence would you need

01:50:23.569 --> 01:50:25.530


01:50:23.579 --> 01:50:27.599
about what basis would you make a

01:50:25.520 --> 01:50:27.599


01:50:25.530 --> 01:50:30.059
decision to change your mind

01:50:27.589 --> 01:50:30.059


01:50:27.599 --> 01:50:33.439
fundamentally about the question that we

01:50:30.049 --> 01:50:33.439


01:50:30.059 --> 01:50:33.439
gathered here to discuss this evening

01:50:34.089 --> 01:50:34.089


01:50:34.099 --> 01:50:39.300
great question

01:50:36.439 --> 01:50:39.300


01:50:36.449 --> 01:50:42.079
well Christianity would be refuted by

01:50:39.290 --> 01:50:42.079


01:50:39.300 --> 01:50:46.229
somehow discovering the body of Christ

01:50:42.069 --> 01:50:46.229


01:50:42.079 --> 01:50:48.059
theism might be I don't know how you

01:50:46.219 --> 01:50:48.059


01:50:46.229 --> 01:50:50.749
could refute these and if all the

01:50:48.049 --> 01:50:50.749


01:50:48.059 --> 01:50:52.469
scientific evidence somehow changed if I

01:50:50.739 --> 01:50:52.469


01:50:50.749 --> 01:50:54.780
don't know how you deal with the

01:50:52.459 --> 01:50:54.780


01:50:52.469 --> 01:50:57.239
morality issue if the fine-tuning didn't

01:50:54.770 --> 01:50:57.239


01:50:54.780 --> 01:50:58.859
occur if we could find the universe is

01:50:57.229 --> 01:50:58.859


01:50:57.239 --> 01:50:59.939
eternal it would need a cause but all

01:50:58.849 --> 01:50:59.939


01:50:58.859 --> 01:51:02.189
the scientific evidence seems to suggest

01:50:59.929 --> 01:51:02.189


01:50:59.939 --> 01:51:03.419
universe is eternal so it needs a cause

01:51:02.179 --> 01:51:03.419


01:51:02.189 --> 01:51:06.510
and the cause must be immaterial

01:51:03.409 --> 01:51:06.510


01:51:03.419 --> 01:51:10.379
spaceless timeless but if all that

01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:10.379


01:51:06.510 --> 01:51:16.469
changed that might be at least get me to

01:51:10.369 --> 01:51:16.469


01:51:10.379 --> 01:51:17.820
doubt theism sir you know most of the

01:51:16.459 --> 01:51:17.820


01:51:16.469 --> 01:51:19.999
debate I wish I'd thought of this this

01:51:17.810 --> 01:51:19.999


01:51:17.820 --> 01:51:19.999
evening

01:51:25.720 --> 01:51:25.720


01:51:25.730 --> 01:51:31.340
sorry much too laid-back in most of the

01:51:29.470 --> 01:51:31.340


01:51:29.480 --> 01:51:33.350
debates I've taken apart and I wish I

01:51:31.330 --> 01:51:33.350


01:51:31.340 --> 01:51:37.610
thought of doing it this evening too we

01:51:33.340 --> 01:51:37.610


01:51:33.350 --> 01:51:40.460
took a vote before the debate including

01:51:37.600 --> 01:51:40.460


01:51:37.610 --> 01:51:43.010
registering the undecided and then at

01:51:40.450 --> 01:51:43.010


01:51:40.460 --> 01:51:45.020
1:00 at the end to basically see where

01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:45.020


01:51:43.010 --> 01:51:46.429
the undersides had gone so and I was

01:51:45.010 --> 01:51:46.429


01:51:45.020 --> 01:51:47.989
always surprised by how many people had

01:51:46.419 --> 01:51:47.989


01:51:46.429 --> 01:51:50.210
come or at least willing to consider

01:51:47.979 --> 01:51:50.210


01:51:47.989 --> 01:51:53.810
themselves as having come with an open

01:51:50.200 --> 01:51:53.810


01:51:50.210 --> 01:51:56.989
mind I my view is this very few people

01:51:53.800 --> 01:51:56.989


01:51:53.810 --> 01:52:00.790
have that much difficulty thinking of

01:51:56.979 --> 01:52:00.790


01:51:56.989 --> 01:52:03.679
themselves as objects of a divine plan

01:52:00.780 --> 01:52:03.679


01:52:00.790 --> 01:52:06.290
the great advantage religion has is our

01:52:03.669 --> 01:52:06.290


01:52:03.679 --> 01:52:07.520
own solipsism it's the same as people

01:52:06.280 --> 01:52:07.520


01:52:06.290 --> 01:52:10.280
who don't really believe in astrology

01:52:07.510 --> 01:52:10.280


01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:13.340
but they'll take a quick peek to see

01:52:10.270 --> 01:52:13.340


01:52:10.280 --> 01:52:16.580
what's happening to Taurus today and if

01:52:13.330 --> 01:52:16.580


01:52:13.340 --> 01:52:18.770
it says well might be a good time for a

01:52:16.570 --> 01:52:18.770


01:52:16.580 --> 01:52:21.320
flutter on the stock exchange not to

01:52:18.760 --> 01:52:21.320


01:52:18.770 --> 01:52:23.300
think hang on the planets don't really

01:52:21.310 --> 01:52:23.300


01:52:21.320 --> 01:52:25.909
move to determine my investments but

01:52:23.290 --> 01:52:25.909


01:52:23.300 --> 01:52:27.980
maybe you know it's not it's not

01:52:25.899 --> 01:52:27.980


01:52:25.909 --> 01:52:29.869
impossible it could all be about me I

01:52:27.970 --> 01:52:29.869


01:52:27.980 --> 01:52:32.840
think about it quite a lot actually

01:52:29.859 --> 01:52:32.840


01:52:29.869 --> 01:52:34.659
because I have the same birthday as

01:52:32.830 --> 01:52:34.659


01:52:32.840 --> 01:52:37.340
Thomas Jefferson in April the 13th

01:52:34.649 --> 01:52:37.340


01:52:34.659 --> 01:52:39.770
except that I don't because he was born

01:52:37.330 --> 01:52:39.770


01:52:37.340 --> 01:52:42.290
under the old calendar and I think his

01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:42.290


01:52:39.770 --> 01:52:44.840
though it says on his tomb he was born

01:52:42.280 --> 01:52:44.840


01:52:42.290 --> 01:52:47.150
on 13th table he was actually born on

01:52:44.830 --> 01:52:47.150


01:52:44.840 --> 01:52:48.530
something like the 25th of April under

01:52:47.140 --> 01:52:48.530


01:52:47.150 --> 01:52:50.380
the Ocala I've often wondered how the

01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:50.380


01:52:48.530 --> 01:52:52.610
horoscope people managed the transition

01:52:50.370 --> 01:52:52.610


01:52:50.380 --> 01:52:54.860
the time when everyone had to change

01:52:52.600 --> 01:52:54.860


01:52:52.610 --> 01:52:58.369
which star sign they were I just say it

01:52:54.850 --> 01:52:58.369


01:52:54.860 --> 01:53:00.739
got done easily enough religion works

01:52:58.359 --> 01:53:00.739


01:52:58.369 --> 01:53:03.230
for most people because if to have

01:53:00.729 --> 01:53:03.230


01:53:00.739 --> 01:53:06.350
people in a sense horribly do want it to

01:53:03.220 --> 01:53:06.350


01:53:03.230 --> 01:53:08.300
be true that they are supervised that

01:53:06.340 --> 01:53:08.300


01:53:06.350 --> 01:53:10.369
God looks out for them that they might

01:53:08.290 --> 01:53:10.369


01:53:08.300 --> 01:53:13.400
be rewarded or they might be punished it

01:53:10.359 --> 01:53:13.400


01:53:10.369 --> 01:53:15.139
has this terrible surveill advantage

01:53:13.390 --> 01:53:15.139


01:53:13.400 --> 01:53:18.110
that's why I consider it to be morally

01:53:15.129 --> 01:53:18.110


01:53:15.139 --> 01:53:20.780
superior to be an atheist to say I would

01:53:18.100 --> 01:53:20.780


01:53:18.110 --> 01:53:23.600
rather live without that ghastly

01:53:20.770 --> 01:53:23.600


01:53:20.780 --> 01:53:25.520
master/slave and their mentality and no

01:53:23.590 --> 01:53:25.520


01:53:23.600 --> 01:53:28.130
evidence or no event that could change

01:53:25.510 --> 01:53:28.130


01:53:25.520 --> 01:53:29.929
your commitment to that belief I can

01:53:28.120 --> 01:53:29.929


01:53:28.130 --> 01:53:32.989
only say that if there was I'm very

01:53:29.919 --> 01:53:32.989


01:53:29.929 --> 01:53:34.110
relieved to find having studied what I

01:53:32.979 --> 01:53:34.110


01:53:32.989 --> 01:53:36.270
think of as the

01:53:34.100 --> 01:53:36.270


01:53:34.110 --> 01:53:39.030
best evidence in arguments physicists

01:53:36.260 --> 01:53:39.030


01:53:36.270 --> 01:53:41.250
biologists paleontologists students of

01:53:39.020 --> 01:53:41.250


01:53:39.030 --> 01:53:42.810
mythology history archaeologists are

01:53:41.240 --> 01:53:42.810


01:53:41.250 --> 01:53:45.210
very relieved to find there's no

01:53:42.800 --> 01:53:45.210


01:53:42.810 --> 01:53:47.730
evidence for it at all if if I thought

01:53:45.200 --> 01:53:47.730


01:53:45.210 --> 01:53:51.780
it was true I would consider myself

01:53:47.720 --> 01:53:51.780


01:53:47.730 --> 01:53:54.180
condemned to live under attorney and

01:53:51.770 --> 01:53:54.180


01:53:51.780 --> 01:53:57.900
I've spent my entire life repudiating

01:53:54.170 --> 01:53:57.900


01:53:54.180 --> 01:54:00.960
that idea and helping I hope others to

01:53:57.890 --> 01:54:00.960


01:53:57.900 --> 01:54:02.970
think the same but there is not a chance

01:54:00.950 --> 01:54:02.970


01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:05.640
of course it's not it isn't a single

01:54:02.960 --> 01:54:05.640


01:54:02.970 --> 01:54:08.370
chance that anyone will find that hey

01:54:05.630 --> 01:54:08.370


01:54:05.640 --> 01:54:10.620
after all we can definitely know that a

01:54:08.360 --> 01:54:10.620


01:54:08.370 --> 01:54:14.730
virgin conceived or that a condemned

01:54:10.610 --> 01:54:14.730


01:54:10.620 --> 01:54:16.440
felon walked gain and it's quite absurd

01:54:14.720 --> 01:54:16.440


01:54:14.730 --> 01:54:18.960
for anyone to argue in scientific terms

01:54:16.430 --> 01:54:18.960


01:54:16.440 --> 01:54:20.580
as if any of that is even thinkable what

01:54:18.950 --> 01:54:20.580


01:54:18.960 --> 01:54:24.440
I don't understand I suppose I should

01:54:20.570 --> 01:54:24.440


01:54:20.580 --> 01:54:27.540
close both is why anybody should be so

01:54:24.430 --> 01:54:27.540


01:54:24.440 --> 01:54:31.080
contemptuous I suppose is the word also

01:54:27.530 --> 01:54:31.080


01:54:27.540 --> 01:54:34.080
insecure about their own faith as not to

01:54:31.070 --> 01:54:34.080


01:54:31.080 --> 01:54:36.330
call it that did you hear him say at any

01:54:34.070 --> 01:54:36.330


01:54:34.080 --> 01:54:38.910
point the city this is my faith I

01:54:36.320 --> 01:54:38.910


01:54:36.330 --> 01:54:41.580
believe it in spite of the evidence to

01:54:38.900 --> 01:54:41.580


01:54:38.910 --> 01:54:44.070
the contrary I lay my life on it

01:54:41.570 --> 01:54:44.070


01:54:41.580 --> 01:54:46.350
I believe I'm redeemed by it I think I

01:54:44.060 --> 01:54:46.350


01:54:44.070 --> 01:54:47.640
will live eternally because no he has no

01:54:46.340 --> 01:54:47.640


01:54:46.350 --> 01:54:50.090
confidence to say anything like that

01:54:47.630 --> 01:54:50.090


01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:53.820
instead he tries to mix it up in an area

01:54:50.080 --> 01:54:53.820


01:54:50.090 --> 01:54:56.340
scientific inquiry where he is no more

01:54:53.810 --> 01:54:56.340


01:54:53.820 --> 01:55:00.780
competent than hey even I am and that

01:54:56.330 --> 01:55:00.780


01:54:56.340 --> 01:55:01.410
was where he made his big mistake thanks

01:55:00.770 --> 01:55:01.410


01:55:00.780 --> 01:55:03.450
gentlemen

01:55:01.400 --> 01:55:03.450


01:55:01.410 --> 01:55:09.810
what are we sighs five minutes to a

01:55:03.440 --> 01:55:09.810


01:55:03.450 --> 01:55:10.830
close uh since dr. Turk went first in

01:55:09.800 --> 01:55:10.830


01:55:09.810 --> 01:55:14.070
the opening would you mind going first

01:55:10.820 --> 01:55:14.070


01:55:10.830 --> 01:55:15.390
now I thought I'd just wrap oh you can

01:55:14.060 --> 01:55:15.390


01:55:14.070 --> 01:55:17.690
call it a wrap unless you'd like five

01:55:15.380 --> 01:55:17.690


01:55:15.390 --> 01:55:17.690
more minutes

01:55:26.390 --> 01:55:26.390


01:55:26.400 --> 01:55:29.520
when asked when I think of the most

01:55:27.920 --> 01:55:29.520


01:55:27.930 --> 01:55:37.590
erotic words in the language I sometimes

01:55:29.510 --> 01:55:37.590


01:55:29.520 --> 01:55:39.150
think German relayed back now when asked

01:55:37.580 --> 01:55:39.150


01:55:37.590 --> 01:55:41.240
what I think of the most erotic words in

01:55:39.140 --> 01:55:41.240


01:55:39.150 --> 01:55:48.240
the language I sometimes think slowly

01:55:41.230 --> 01:55:48.240


01:55:41.240 --> 01:55:50.510
captive audience um no you know what

01:55:48.230 --> 01:55:50.510


01:55:48.240 --> 01:55:52.500
if I haven't made my case by now

01:55:50.500 --> 01:55:52.500


01:55:50.510 --> 01:55:55.830
brothers and sisters I don't think I

01:55:52.490 --> 01:55:55.830


01:55:52.500 --> 01:55:58.440
will make it in the next five I ask you

01:55:55.820 --> 01:55:58.440


01:55:55.830 --> 01:56:01.590
to excuse me if anyone thinks that

01:55:58.430 --> 01:56:01.590


01:55:58.440 --> 01:56:02.880
there's a question having who's heard me

01:56:01.580 --> 01:56:02.880


01:56:01.590 --> 01:56:05.760
who thinks is a question I answered

01:56:02.870 --> 01:56:05.760


01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:07.230
poorly or inadequately or badly or

01:56:05.750 --> 01:56:07.230


01:56:05.760 --> 01:56:09.240
failed to answer at all I would like to

01:56:07.220 --> 01:56:09.240


01:56:07.230 --> 01:56:12.450
challenge me I'd happily give them five

01:56:09.230 --> 01:56:12.450


01:56:09.240 --> 01:56:15.510
minutes but I've I have to say shot my

01:56:12.440 --> 01:56:15.510


01:56:12.450 --> 01:56:21.510
belt otherwise it is there anyone who

01:56:15.500 --> 01:56:21.510


01:56:15.510 --> 01:56:23.940
would like to charge me yes please if

01:56:21.500 --> 01:56:23.940


01:56:21.510 --> 01:56:27.030
there is no God why don't you spend your

01:56:23.930 --> 01:56:27.030


01:56:23.940 --> 01:56:29.550
whole life try to convince people that

01:56:27.020 --> 01:56:29.550


01:56:27.030 --> 01:56:33.000
there isn't why don't you just stay off

01:56:29.540 --> 01:56:33.000


01:56:29.550 --> 01:56:34.950
was the repeat that was the cost yeah

01:56:32.990 --> 01:56:34.950


01:56:33.000 --> 01:56:37.400
the question is if there if there is no

01:56:34.940 --> 01:56:37.400


01:56:34.950 --> 01:56:40.320
god why spend your life and career

01:56:37.390 --> 01:56:40.320


01:56:37.400 --> 01:56:46.740
trying to refute that why not just leave

01:56:40.310 --> 01:56:46.740


01:56:40.320 --> 01:56:48.930
it alone and stay home fair enough well

01:56:46.730 --> 01:56:48.930


01:56:46.740 --> 01:56:53.880
it's it's not my it isn't my whole

01:56:48.920 --> 01:56:53.880


01:56:48.930 --> 01:56:55.890
career for one thing it's become a major

01:56:53.870 --> 01:56:55.890


01:56:53.880 --> 01:56:59.010
preoccupation of my life though in the

01:56:55.880 --> 01:56:59.010


01:56:55.890 --> 01:57:05.190
last eight or nine years especially

01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:05.190


01:56:59.010 --> 01:57:08.550
since September 11th 2001 to try and

01:57:05.180 --> 01:57:08.550


01:57:05.190 --> 01:57:11.820
help generate an opposition to theocracy

01:57:08.540 --> 01:57:11.820


01:57:08.550 --> 01:57:14.250
and its depredations internationally

01:57:11.810 --> 01:57:14.250


01:57:11.820 --> 01:57:16.710
that that that is now probably my main

01:57:14.240 --> 01:57:16.710


01:57:14.250 --> 01:57:19.860
political preoccupation to help people

01:57:16.700 --> 01:57:19.860


01:57:16.710 --> 01:57:23.580
in Afghanistan in Somalia in Iraq in

01:57:19.850 --> 01:57:23.580


01:57:19.860 --> 01:57:25.380
Lebanon in Israel to resist those who

01:57:23.570 --> 01:57:25.380


01:57:23.580 --> 01:57:26.760
sincerely want to encompass the

01:57:25.370 --> 01:57:26.760


01:57:25.380 --> 01:57:28.590
destruction of civilization and

01:57:26.750 --> 01:57:28.590


01:57:26.760 --> 01:57:31.110
sincerely believe they have God on their

01:57:28.580 --> 01:57:31.110


01:57:28.590 --> 01:57:32.790
side in wanting to do so the thing maybe

01:57:31.100 --> 01:57:32.790


01:57:31.110 --> 01:57:34.980
I will take a few minutes just to say

01:57:32.780 --> 01:57:34.980


01:57:32.790 --> 01:57:37.440
something that I find repulsive about

01:57:34.970 --> 01:57:37.440


01:57:34.980 --> 01:57:40.079
especially monotheistic messianic

01:57:37.430 --> 01:57:40.079


01:57:37.440 --> 01:57:42.869
religion in it with a large

01:57:40.069 --> 01:57:42.869


01:57:40.079 --> 01:57:45.840
part of itself it quite clearly wants us

01:57:42.859 --> 01:57:45.840


01:57:42.869 --> 01:57:47.790
all to die it wants this world to come

01:57:45.830 --> 01:57:47.790


01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:50.670
to an end you can tell the yearning for

01:57:47.780 --> 01:57:50.670


01:57:47.790 --> 01:57:52.380
things to be over whenever you read any

01:57:50.660 --> 01:57:52.380


01:57:50.670 --> 01:57:55.070
of its real texts or listen to any of

01:57:52.370 --> 01:57:55.070


01:57:52.380 --> 01:57:57.840
its real authentic spokesmen not the

01:57:55.060 --> 01:57:57.840


01:57:55.070 --> 01:58:00.150
sort of the pathetic apologist who

01:57:57.830 --> 01:58:00.150


01:57:57.840 --> 01:58:03.570
sometimes masquerade for it those who

01:58:00.140 --> 01:58:03.570


01:58:00.150 --> 01:58:06.510
talk there was a famous spokesman for

01:58:03.560 --> 01:58:06.510


01:58:03.570 --> 01:58:09.960
this in Virginia until recently about

01:58:06.500 --> 01:58:09.960


01:58:06.510 --> 01:58:12.929
the rapture say that those of us who

01:58:09.950 --> 01:58:12.929


01:58:09.960 --> 01:58:15.300
have chosen rightly will be gathered to

01:58:12.919 --> 01:58:15.300


01:58:12.929 --> 01:58:17.159
the arms of Jesus leaving all the rest

01:58:15.290 --> 01:58:17.159


01:58:15.300 --> 01:58:19.349
of you behind if we're in a car

01:58:17.149 --> 01:58:19.349


01:58:17.159 --> 01:58:21.300
it's your lookout that car won't have a

01:58:19.339 --> 01:58:21.300


01:58:19.349 --> 01:58:22.679
driver anymore if we're if we're a pilot

01:58:21.290 --> 01:58:22.679


01:58:21.300 --> 01:58:25.170
that's your lookout that plane will

01:58:22.669 --> 01:58:25.170


01:58:22.679 --> 01:58:29.820
crash we will be with Jesus and the rest

01:58:25.160 --> 01:58:29.820


01:58:25.170 --> 01:58:31.710
of you can go straight to hell the the

01:58:29.810 --> 01:58:31.710


01:58:29.820 --> 01:58:33.719
eschatological element that is

01:58:31.700 --> 01:58:33.719


01:58:31.710 --> 01:58:35.760
inseparable from Christianity if you

01:58:33.709 --> 01:58:35.760


01:58:33.719 --> 01:58:39.440
don't believe that there is to be an

01:58:35.750 --> 01:58:39.440


01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:42.119
apocalypse there is going to be an end a

01:58:39.430 --> 01:58:42.119


01:58:39.440 --> 01:58:44.730
separation of the sheep and the goats a

01:58:42.109 --> 01:58:44.730


01:58:42.119 --> 01:58:47.460
condemnation a final one then you're not

01:58:44.720 --> 01:58:47.460


01:58:44.730 --> 01:58:49.710
really I believe it and the contempt for

01:58:47.450 --> 01:58:49.710


01:58:47.460 --> 01:58:51.480
the things of this world shows through

01:58:49.700 --> 01:58:51.480


01:58:49.710 --> 01:58:54.659
all of them it's well put in an old

01:58:51.470 --> 01:58:54.659


01:58:51.480 --> 01:58:55.889
rhyme from a an English exclusive

01:58:54.649 --> 01:58:55.889


01:58:54.659 --> 01:58:58.170
brethren sect

01:58:55.879 --> 01:58:58.170


01:58:55.889 --> 01:59:00.270
says that we are the pure and chosen few

01:58:58.160 --> 01:59:00.270


01:58:58.170 --> 01:59:02.760
and all the rest are damned

01:59:00.260 --> 01:59:02.760


01:59:00.270 --> 01:59:05.969
there's ruin up in hell for you we don't

01:59:02.750 --> 01:59:05.969


01:59:02.760 --> 01:59:08.520
want heaven crammed you can tell it when

01:59:05.959 --> 01:59:08.520


01:59:05.969 --> 01:59:11.610
you see the extreme Muslims talk they

01:59:08.510 --> 01:59:11.610


01:59:08.520 --> 01:59:13.050
cannot wait they cannot wait for death

01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:13.050


01:59:11.610 --> 01:59:16.219
and destruction to overtake and

01:59:13.040 --> 01:59:16.219


01:59:13.050 --> 01:59:19.199
overwhelm the world they can't wait for

01:59:16.209 --> 01:59:19.199


01:59:16.219 --> 01:59:22.230
for a what I would call without

01:59:19.189 --> 01:59:22.230


01:59:19.199 --> 01:59:25.530
ambiguity a final solution when you look

01:59:22.220 --> 01:59:25.530


01:59:22.230 --> 01:59:27.929
at the Israeli settlers paid for often

01:59:25.520 --> 01:59:27.929


01:59:25.530 --> 01:59:30.030
by American tax dollars to sign if they

01:59:27.919 --> 01:59:30.030


01:59:27.929 --> 01:59:32.880
can steal enough land from other people

01:59:30.020 --> 01:59:32.880


01:59:30.030 --> 01:59:35.099
and get all the Jews into the Promised

01:59:32.870 --> 01:59:35.099


01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:37.469
Land and all the non-jews out of it then

01:59:35.089 --> 01:59:37.469


01:59:35.099 --> 01:59:40.110
finally the Jewish people will be worthy

01:59:37.459 --> 01:59:40.110


01:59:37.469 --> 01:59:41.309
of the return of the Messiah and there

01:59:40.100 --> 01:59:41.309


01:59:40.110 --> 01:59:43.440
are Christians in this country you

01:59:41.299 --> 01:59:43.440


01:59:41.309 --> 01:59:46.110
consider it their job to help this

01:59:43.430 --> 01:59:46.110


01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:49.590
happen so that Armageddon can occur so

01:59:46.100 --> 01:59:49.590


01:59:46.110 --> 01:59:52.050
the painful business of living as humans

01:59:49.580 --> 01:59:52.050


01:59:49.590 --> 01:59:53.650
and studying civilization and trying to

01:59:52.040 --> 01:59:53.650


01:59:52.050 --> 01:59:56.380
acquire learning and

01:59:53.640 --> 01:59:56.380


01:59:53.650 --> 01:59:59.620
knowledge and health and medicine and to

01:59:56.370 --> 01:59:59.620


01:59:56.380 --> 02:00:03.040
push that can all be scrapped and and

01:59:59.610 --> 02:00:03.040


01:59:59.620 --> 02:00:06.640
the cult of death can take over that to

02:00:03.030 --> 02:00:06.640


02:00:03.040 --> 02:00:10.240
me is a hideous thing in eschatological

02:00:06.630 --> 02:00:10.240


02:00:06.640 --> 02:00:12.610
terms in end times terms on its own

02:00:10.230 --> 02:00:12.610


02:00:10.240 --> 02:00:14.710
hateful idea hateful practice and a

02:00:12.600 --> 02:00:14.710


02:00:12.610 --> 02:00:16.480
hateful theory but very much to be

02:00:14.700 --> 02:00:16.480


02:00:14.710 --> 02:00:19.630
opposed in our daily lives where there

02:00:16.470 --> 02:00:19.630


02:00:16.480 --> 02:00:22.540
are people who sincerely mean it who

02:00:19.620 --> 02:00:22.540


02:00:19.630 --> 02:00:23.860
want who want to ruin the good relations

02:00:22.530 --> 02:00:23.860


02:00:22.540 --> 02:00:27.130
that could exist between different

02:00:23.850 --> 02:00:27.130


02:00:23.860 --> 02:00:30.700
peoples nations racist countries tribes

02:00:27.120 --> 02:00:30.700


02:00:27.130 --> 02:00:34.120
ethnicities who say who openly say they

02:00:30.690 --> 02:00:34.120


02:00:30.700 --> 02:00:36.130
love death more than we love life and

02:00:34.110 --> 02:00:36.130


02:00:34.120 --> 02:00:39.310
who are betting that with God on their

02:00:36.120 --> 02:00:39.310


02:00:36.130 --> 02:00:41.770
side they're right about that so when I

02:00:39.300 --> 02:00:41.770


02:00:39.310 --> 02:00:44.080
say is the subtitle of my book that I

02:00:41.760 --> 02:00:44.080


02:00:41.770 --> 02:00:46.960
think religion poisons everything I'm

02:00:44.070 --> 02:00:46.960


02:00:44.080 --> 02:00:48.910
not just doing what publishers like and

02:00:46.950 --> 02:00:48.910


02:00:46.960 --> 02:00:52.150
coming up with the provocative subtitle

02:00:48.900 --> 02:00:52.150


02:00:48.910 --> 02:00:54.460
I mean to say it infects us in the you

02:00:52.140 --> 02:00:54.460


02:00:52.150 --> 02:00:56.800
know our most basic integrity it says we

02:00:54.450 --> 02:00:56.800


02:00:54.460 --> 02:00:59.020
can't be moral without Big Brother

02:00:56.790 --> 02:00:59.020


02:00:56.800 --> 02:01:01.180
without a totalitarian permission means

02:00:59.010 --> 02:01:01.180


02:00:59.020 --> 02:01:03.640
we can't be good to one another means we

02:01:01.170 --> 02:01:03.640


02:01:01.180 --> 02:01:07.420
can't leave without this we must be

02:01:03.630 --> 02:01:07.420


02:01:03.640 --> 02:01:09.970
afraid we must also be forced to love

02:01:07.410 --> 02:01:09.970


02:01:07.420 --> 02:01:13.030
someone who we fear the essence of

02:01:09.960 --> 02:01:13.030


02:01:09.970 --> 02:01:14.860
sadomasochism at the essence of

02:01:13.020 --> 02:01:14.860


02:01:13.030 --> 02:01:17.860
abjection the essence of the Masters

02:01:14.850 --> 02:01:17.860


02:01:14.860 --> 02:01:19.930
slave relationship and that knows that

02:01:17.850 --> 02:01:19.930


02:01:17.860 --> 02:01:24.370
death is coming and can't wait to bring

02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:24.370


02:01:19.930 --> 02:01:28.480
it on I say this is evil and though I do

02:01:24.360 --> 02:01:28.480


02:01:24.370 --> 02:01:30.790
some nights stay home I enjoy more the

02:01:28.470 --> 02:01:30.790


02:01:28.480 --> 02:01:32.590
nights when I go out and fight against

02:01:30.780 --> 02:01:32.590


02:01:30.790 --> 02:01:35.940
this ultimate wickedness and ultimate

02:01:32.580 --> 02:01:35.940


02:01:32.590 --> 02:01:35.940
stupidity thank you

02:01:48.500 --> 02:01:48.500


02:01:48.510 --> 02:02:02.500
dr. Tarek your clothes first of all I

02:02:01.200 --> 02:02:02.500


02:02:01.210 --> 02:02:05.410
want to thank everyone I know it's been

02:02:02.490 --> 02:02:05.410


02:02:02.500 --> 02:02:06.790
a long night and I enjoy listening to

02:02:05.400 --> 02:02:06.790


02:02:05.410 --> 02:02:09.550
Christopher even if I don't agree with

02:02:06.780 --> 02:02:09.550


02:02:06.790 --> 02:02:10.840
them and I want to thank Christopher for

02:02:09.540 --> 02:02:10.840


02:02:09.550 --> 02:02:14.560
being here and putting so much effort

02:02:10.830 --> 02:02:14.560


02:02:10.840 --> 02:02:16.210
into this debate let me just clean up a

02:02:14.550 --> 02:02:16.210


02:02:14.560 --> 02:02:19.000
few things that I wasn't able to respond

02:02:16.200 --> 02:02:19.000


02:02:16.210 --> 02:02:20.650
to before and that is this issue of

02:02:18.990 --> 02:02:20.650


02:02:19.000 --> 02:02:22.750
design where Christopher seems to say

02:02:20.640 --> 02:02:22.750


02:02:20.650 --> 02:02:26.550
because things are going to oblivion it

02:02:22.740 --> 02:02:26.550


02:02:22.750 --> 02:02:29.620
wasn't designed well first of all a

02:02:26.540 --> 02:02:29.620


02:02:26.550 --> 02:02:33.580
design in a world constrained by

02:02:29.610 --> 02:02:33.580


02:02:29.620 --> 02:02:37.830
physical constraints can only be optimal

02:02:33.570 --> 02:02:37.830


02:02:33.580 --> 02:02:41.140
if you know the purpose of the designer

02:02:37.820 --> 02:02:41.140


02:02:37.830 --> 02:02:42.970
just even Jay Gould had a book years ago

02:02:41.130 --> 02:02:42.970


02:02:41.140 --> 02:02:44.500
called pandas thumb where he complained

02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:44.500


02:02:42.970 --> 02:02:47.920
that the pandas thumb was not as good as

02:02:44.490 --> 02:02:47.920


02:02:44.500 --> 02:02:51.460
our thumb it only seemed to enable the

02:02:47.910 --> 02:02:51.460


02:02:47.920 --> 02:02:53.380
Panda to strip bamboo well maybe that's

02:02:51.450 --> 02:02:53.380


02:02:51.460 --> 02:02:54.790
all the Panda was supposed to do is

02:02:53.370 --> 02:02:54.790


02:02:53.380 --> 02:02:56.710
strip bamboo you can't say it's

02:02:54.780 --> 02:02:56.710


02:02:54.790 --> 02:03:01.750
suboptimal Design unless you know what

02:02:56.700 --> 02:03:01.750


02:02:56.710 --> 02:03:03.730
the purpose of the designer was my car

02:03:01.740 --> 02:03:03.730


02:03:01.750 --> 02:03:08.140
is not designed perfectly but it's still

02:03:03.720 --> 02:03:08.140


02:03:03.730 --> 02:03:10.030
designed so just because you find faults

02:03:08.130 --> 02:03:10.030


02:03:08.140 --> 02:03:11.650
in design doesn't mean there is no

02:03:10.020 --> 02:03:11.650


02:03:10.030 --> 02:03:13.450
design and you wouldn't be able to find

02:03:11.640 --> 02:03:13.450


02:03:11.650 --> 02:03:16.870
a fault unless you knew what the purpose

02:03:13.440 --> 02:03:16.870


02:03:13.450 --> 02:03:20.230
of the designer was let me now summarize

02:03:16.860 --> 02:03:20.230


02:03:16.870 --> 02:03:22.360
Christopher's book and if as I read

02:03:20.220 --> 02:03:22.360


02:03:20.230 --> 02:03:23.590
Christopher's book it seems to me he's

02:03:22.350 --> 02:03:23.590


02:03:22.360 --> 02:03:25.930
making two statements the first

02:03:23.580 --> 02:03:25.930


02:03:23.590 --> 02:03:28.110
statement is there is no God and I hate

02:03:25.920 --> 02:03:28.110


02:03:25.930 --> 02:03:28.110
him

02:03:32.089 --> 02:03:32.089


02:03:32.099 --> 02:03:38.159
after all Christopher defines himself as

02:03:35.419 --> 02:03:38.159


02:03:35.429 --> 02:03:40.500
an anti-theist not an atheist but an

02:03:38.149 --> 02:03:40.500


02:03:38.159 --> 02:03:43.199
anti theist and that's why he couldn't

02:03:40.490 --> 02:03:43.199


02:03:40.500 --> 02:03:44.969
even respond to the question what might

02:03:43.189 --> 02:03:44.969


02:03:43.199 --> 02:03:46.679
change your mind nothing is going to

02:03:44.959 --> 02:03:46.679


02:03:44.969 --> 02:03:48.349
change Christopher's mind his mind is

02:03:46.669 --> 02:03:48.349


02:03:46.679 --> 02:03:53.040
made up

02:03:48.339 --> 02:03:53.040


02:03:48.349 --> 02:03:57.060
the second is narrow-minded yes the

02:03:53.030 --> 02:03:57.060


02:03:53.040 --> 02:03:58.860
second the second major point he makes

02:03:57.050 --> 02:03:58.860


02:03:57.060 --> 02:04:01.800
is since religious people do evil things

02:03:58.850 --> 02:04:01.800


02:03:58.860 --> 02:04:05.310
God doesn't exist that is a non sequitur

02:04:01.790 --> 02:04:05.310


02:04:01.800 --> 02:04:07.429
in logic we all do evil things that

02:04:05.300 --> 02:04:07.429


02:04:05.310 --> 02:04:09.960
doesn't mean our parents don't exist

02:04:07.419 --> 02:04:09.960


02:04:07.429 --> 02:04:11.730
just because E people do evil things

02:04:09.950 --> 02:04:11.730


02:04:09.960 --> 02:04:14.940
doesn't mean that all religion is false

02:04:11.720 --> 02:04:14.940


02:04:11.730 --> 02:04:17.280
and Christopher bunches all religions

02:04:14.930 --> 02:04:17.280


02:04:14.940 --> 02:04:19.489
together and makes no distinctions that

02:04:17.270 --> 02:04:19.489


02:04:17.280 --> 02:04:22.590
need to be made I am with you

02:04:19.479 --> 02:04:22.590


02:04:19.489 --> 02:04:25.380
Christopher on your opposition of

02:04:22.580 --> 02:04:25.380


02:04:22.590 --> 02:04:27.000
radical Islam I am with you I am with

02:04:25.370 --> 02:04:27.000


02:04:25.380 --> 02:04:30.000
you politically on more things than you

02:04:26.990 --> 02:04:30.000


02:04:27.000 --> 02:04:32.310
will know because I think many religions

02:04:29.990 --> 02:04:32.310


02:04:30.000 --> 02:04:36.659
are false and there are many false

02:04:32.300 --> 02:04:36.659


02:04:32.310 --> 02:04:38.909
beliefs in fact many religious people

02:04:36.649 --> 02:04:38.909


02:04:36.659 --> 02:04:40.290
here's here's the points Christopher

02:04:38.899 --> 02:04:40.290


02:04:38.909 --> 02:04:41.820
makes and he's right about many of these

02:04:40.280 --> 02:04:41.820


02:04:40.290 --> 02:04:43.860
things many religious people have

02:04:41.810 --> 02:04:43.860


02:04:41.820 --> 02:04:45.960
behaved terribly many religious beliefs

02:04:43.850 --> 02:04:45.960


02:04:43.860 --> 02:04:47.520
are false and can't be justified you

02:04:45.950 --> 02:04:47.520


02:04:45.960 --> 02:04:49.469
don't need to believe in God to know

02:04:47.510 --> 02:04:49.469


02:04:47.520 --> 02:04:51.179
right from wrong you don't need the

02:04:49.459 --> 02:04:51.179


02:04:49.469 --> 02:04:53.250
Bible or any other religious book to

02:04:51.169 --> 02:04:53.250


02:04:51.179 --> 02:04:55.530
know basic right and wrong morality

02:04:53.240 --> 02:04:55.530


02:04:53.250 --> 02:04:57.329
predates Scripture I agree with all that

02:04:55.520 --> 02:04:57.329


02:04:55.530 --> 02:04:59.790
and that in fact is the Christian view

02:04:57.319 --> 02:04:59.790


02:04:57.329 --> 02:05:01.230
as well and unless someone outside of

02:04:59.780 --> 02:05:01.230


02:04:59.790 --> 02:05:03.179
the universe intervenes or the laws of

02:05:01.220 --> 02:05:03.179


02:05:01.230 --> 02:05:06.300
nature change this incredibly fine-tuned

02:05:03.169 --> 02:05:06.300


02:05:03.179 --> 02:05:08.400
universe will go to oblivion I agree

02:05:06.290 --> 02:05:08.400


02:05:06.300 --> 02:05:10.349
with all that but none of these things

02:05:08.390 --> 02:05:10.349


02:05:08.400 --> 02:05:12.690
are arguments against the existence of

02:05:10.339 --> 02:05:12.690


02:05:10.349 --> 02:05:14.670
God God could still exist even if all of

02:05:12.680 --> 02:05:14.670


02:05:12.690 --> 02:05:17.329
Christopher's assertions and complaints

02:05:14.660 --> 02:05:17.329


02:05:14.670 --> 02:05:17.329
are true

02:05:22.640 --> 02:05:22.640


02:05:22.650 --> 02:05:29.830
let me also point out that religion does

02:05:25.980 --> 02:05:29.830


02:05:25.990 --> 02:05:38.020
not poison everything everything poisons

02:05:29.820 --> 02:05:38.020


02:05:29.830 --> 02:05:40.270
religion I poison religion regrettably I

02:05:38.010 --> 02:05:40.270


02:05:38.020 --> 02:05:42.670
poison religion because I don't live up

02:05:40.260 --> 02:05:42.670


02:05:40.270 --> 02:05:44.350
to the pure words of Christ and that's

02:05:42.660 --> 02:05:44.350


02:05:42.670 --> 02:05:46.900
why Christ had to come because none of

02:05:44.340 --> 02:05:46.900


02:05:44.350 --> 02:05:49.120
us live up to it but we know what the

02:05:46.890 --> 02:05:49.120


02:05:46.900 --> 02:05:51.850
standards are because there's a standard

02:05:49.110 --> 02:05:51.850


02:05:49.120 --> 02:05:53.590
beyond ourselves Christopher has

02:05:51.840 --> 02:05:53.590


02:05:51.850 --> 02:05:55.000
identified how religious people poison

02:05:53.580 --> 02:05:55.000


02:05:53.590 --> 02:05:56.620
religion how they act immorally

02:05:54.990 --> 02:05:56.620


02:05:55.000 --> 02:05:58.950
you know that's what Jesus and the

02:05:56.610 --> 02:05:58.950


02:05:56.620 --> 02:06:03.460
prophets did and why Jesus came

02:05:58.940 --> 02:06:03.460


02:05:58.950 --> 02:06:05.380
Christopher is so charming and he is so

02:06:03.450 --> 02:06:05.380


02:06:03.460 --> 02:06:09.670
persuasive he is like an Old Testament

02:06:05.370 --> 02:06:09.670


02:06:05.380 --> 02:06:14.140
prophet he is and he is calling the

02:06:09.660 --> 02:06:14.140


02:06:09.670 --> 02:06:16.600
church to morality he can't define what

02:06:14.130 --> 02:06:16.600


02:06:14.140 --> 02:06:18.670
that is but he's calling them to it he's

02:06:16.590 --> 02:06:18.670


02:06:16.600 --> 02:06:20.950
not calling them to the Christian

02:06:18.660 --> 02:06:20.950


02:06:18.670 --> 02:06:23.830
morality necessarily he's calling them

02:06:20.940 --> 02:06:23.830


02:06:20.950 --> 02:06:25.780
to his own morality but what he points

02:06:23.820 --> 02:06:25.780


02:06:23.830 --> 02:06:27.520
out are some of the very things Jesus

02:06:25.770 --> 02:06:27.520


02:06:25.780 --> 02:06:29.110
point out many people in the church are

02:06:27.510 --> 02:06:29.110


02:06:27.520 --> 02:06:30.880
following tradition rather than the

02:06:29.100 --> 02:06:30.880


02:06:29.110 --> 02:06:33.190
words of Christ many people in the

02:06:30.870 --> 02:06:33.190


02:06:30.880 --> 02:06:35.920
church are doing evil things Jesus

02:06:33.180 --> 02:06:35.920


02:06:33.190 --> 02:06:38.230
condemned the people who were the most

02:06:35.910 --> 02:06:38.230


02:06:35.920 --> 02:06:39.700
religious because they were the furthest

02:06:38.220 --> 02:06:39.700


02:06:38.230 --> 02:06:41.020
away from God and Christopher's to be

02:06:39.690 --> 02:06:41.020


02:06:39.700 --> 02:06:43.080
commended for that because many of them

02:06:41.010 --> 02:06:43.080


02:06:41.020 --> 02:06:43.080
are

02:06:48.310 --> 02:06:48.310


02:06:48.320 --> 02:06:52.260
but unlike Jesus who appealed to God's

02:06:50.780 --> 02:06:52.260


02:06:50.790 --> 02:06:54.360
standard of morality Christopher's

02:06:52.250 --> 02:06:54.360


02:06:52.260 --> 02:06:56.310
atheism affords him no objective moral

02:06:54.350 --> 02:06:56.310


02:06:54.360 --> 02:06:57.900
standard by which to judge anything

02:06:56.300 --> 02:06:57.900


02:06:56.310 --> 02:06:59.880
wrong including all the sins of

02:06:57.890 --> 02:06:59.880


02:06:57.900 --> 02:07:02.940
religious people circumcision sexual

02:06:59.870 --> 02:07:02.940


02:06:59.880 --> 02:07:04.980
restrictions suicide bombing etc he has

02:07:02.930 --> 02:07:04.980


02:07:02.940 --> 02:07:06.390
to borrow objective morality from the

02:07:04.970 --> 02:07:06.390


02:07:04.980 --> 02:07:08.100
theistic worldview in order to argue

02:07:06.380 --> 02:07:08.100


02:07:06.390 --> 02:07:09.750
against it he has to soon God in order

02:07:08.090 --> 02:07:09.750


02:07:08.100 --> 02:07:13.320
to deny him he has to sit in God's lap

02:07:09.740 --> 02:07:13.320


02:07:09.750 --> 02:07:15.120
in order to slap his face he also has to

02:07:13.310 --> 02:07:15.120


02:07:13.320 --> 02:07:17.100
borrow aspects of the theistic worldview

02:07:15.110 --> 02:07:17.100


02:07:15.120 --> 02:07:19.980
in order to even get his worldview off

02:07:17.090 --> 02:07:19.980


02:07:17.100 --> 02:07:22.320
the ground he has to borrow the universe

02:07:19.970 --> 02:07:22.320


02:07:19.980 --> 02:07:24.750
which is a pretty big issue he has to

02:07:22.310 --> 02:07:24.750


02:07:22.320 --> 02:07:26.400
borrow fine-tuning life reason math

02:07:24.740 --> 02:07:26.400


02:07:24.750 --> 02:07:27.830
human freedom and consciousness notice

02:07:26.390 --> 02:07:27.830


02:07:26.400 --> 02:07:30.150
he never to dressed any of those things

02:07:27.820 --> 02:07:30.150


02:07:27.830 --> 02:07:33.150
where do those come from in an atheistic

02:07:30.140 --> 02:07:33.150


02:07:30.150 --> 02:07:34.980
worldview Christopher in the last

02:07:33.140 --> 02:07:34.980


02:07:33.150 --> 02:07:36.540
chapter of his book talks about we need

02:07:34.970 --> 02:07:36.540


02:07:34.980 --> 02:07:38.250
to get away from all this religious

02:07:36.530 --> 02:07:38.250


02:07:36.540 --> 02:07:42.020
stuff and we need to go to enlightenment

02:07:38.240 --> 02:07:42.020


02:07:38.250 --> 02:07:45.360
values what are enlightenment values

02:07:42.010 --> 02:07:45.360


02:07:42.020 --> 02:07:48.180
well here are is what Christopher says

02:07:45.350 --> 02:07:48.180


02:07:45.360 --> 02:07:49.950
on the last page of his book quote very

02:07:48.170 --> 02:07:49.950


02:07:48.180 --> 02:07:52.470
importantly the divorce between the

02:07:49.940 --> 02:07:52.470


02:07:49.950 --> 02:07:54.750
sexual life and fear the sexual life and

02:07:52.460 --> 02:07:54.750


02:07:52.470 --> 02:07:58.080
disease and the sexual life and tyranny

02:07:54.740 --> 02:07:58.080


02:07:54.750 --> 02:07:59.970
can now at last be tempted on the sole

02:07:58.070 --> 02:07:59.970


02:07:58.080 --> 02:08:03.210
condition that we banish all religions

02:07:59.960 --> 02:08:03.210


02:07:59.970 --> 02:08:04.620
from the discourse it appears that

02:08:03.200 --> 02:08:04.620


02:08:03.210 --> 02:08:07.410
Christopher is rebelling against the

02:08:04.610 --> 02:08:07.410


02:08:04.620 --> 02:08:12.030
church lady here he doesn't like the

02:08:07.400 --> 02:08:12.030


02:08:07.410 --> 02:08:14.580
restrictions on sexuality is it true

02:08:12.020 --> 02:08:14.580


02:08:12.030 --> 02:08:16.230
that if Jesus said sleep with anybody

02:08:14.570 --> 02:08:16.230


02:08:14.580 --> 02:08:18.840
you want Christopher would be Christian

02:08:16.220 --> 02:08:18.840


02:08:16.230 --> 02:08:22.530
I don't know but that is what he's

02:08:18.830 --> 02:08:22.530


02:08:18.840 --> 02:08:24.570
rebelling against now he talks about the

02:08:22.520 --> 02:08:24.570


02:08:22.530 --> 02:08:26.340
divine dictatorship he says that he

02:08:24.560 --> 02:08:26.340


02:08:24.570 --> 02:08:27.930
rebelled as he just pointed out against

02:08:26.330 --> 02:08:27.930


02:08:26.340 --> 02:08:30.060
the divine dictatorship because he's an

02:08:27.920 --> 02:08:30.060


02:08:27.930 --> 02:08:33.230
anti theist but let me ask this question

02:08:30.050 --> 02:08:33.230


02:08:30.060 --> 02:08:35.430
why must everyone submit to his

02:08:33.220 --> 02:08:35.430


02:08:33.230 --> 02:08:37.020
dictatorship the dictatorship of

02:08:35.420 --> 02:08:37.020


02:08:35.430 --> 02:08:40.020
Christopher Hitchens he's telling

02:08:37.010 --> 02:08:40.020


02:08:37.020 --> 02:08:42.060
everyone to live up or to give up their

02:08:40.010 --> 02:08:42.060


02:08:40.020 --> 02:08:44.340
sacred texts and to live according to

02:08:42.050 --> 02:08:44.340


02:08:42.060 --> 02:08:48.270
renewed enlightenment values values that

02:08:44.330 --> 02:08:48.270


02:08:44.340 --> 02:08:52.260
apparently he gets to choose Christopher

02:08:48.260 --> 02:08:52.260


02:08:48.270 --> 02:08:56.430
in effect wants to replace God he wants

02:08:52.250 --> 02:08:56.430


02:08:52.260 --> 02:09:00.020
his values he wants you he wants you to

02:08:56.420 --> 02:09:00.020


02:08:56.430 --> 02:09:00.020
adopt enlightenment values

02:09:02.060 --> 02:09:02.060


02:09:02.070 --> 02:09:11.050
Christopher never answered the questions

02:09:08.939 --> 02:09:11.050


02:09:08.949 --> 02:09:12.820
and the evidence that I brought up I

02:09:11.040 --> 02:09:12.820


02:09:11.050 --> 02:09:14.469
think this is a theistic universe

02:09:12.810 --> 02:09:14.469


02:09:12.820 --> 02:09:15.699
because all time all space and all

02:09:14.459 --> 02:09:15.699


02:09:14.469 --> 02:09:16.300
matter exploded into being out of

02:09:15.689 --> 02:09:16.300


02:09:15.699 --> 02:09:18.070
nothing

02:09:16.290 --> 02:09:18.070


02:09:16.300 --> 02:09:21.880
number two it did so with incredible

02:09:18.060 --> 02:09:21.880


02:09:18.070 --> 02:09:23.380
precision and extreme fine-tuning we saw

02:09:21.870 --> 02:09:23.380


02:09:21.880 --> 02:09:25.660
that life seems to be the result of

02:09:23.370 --> 02:09:25.660


02:09:23.380 --> 02:09:27.850
intelligence for we saw that their

02:09:25.650 --> 02:09:27.850


02:09:25.660 --> 02:09:30.010
objective immaterial moral values out

02:09:27.840 --> 02:09:30.010


02:09:27.850 --> 02:09:32.650
there and Christopher is big on

02:09:30.000 --> 02:09:32.650


02:09:30.010 --> 02:09:34.270
immorality I'm with them on that number

02:09:32.640 --> 02:09:34.270


02:09:32.650 --> 02:09:35.860
five we saw that in material reality

02:09:34.260 --> 02:09:35.860


02:09:34.270 --> 02:09:38.610
such as reason in the laws of logic

02:09:35.850 --> 02:09:38.610


02:09:35.860 --> 02:09:40.690
exist and have no way to be explained

02:09:38.600 --> 02:09:40.690


02:09:38.610 --> 02:09:42.910
there's no way to explain those by

02:09:40.680 --> 02:09:42.910


02:09:40.690 --> 02:09:44.860
materialism that the laws of mathematics

02:09:42.900 --> 02:09:44.860


02:09:42.910 --> 02:09:46.330
number six exists and they help us

02:09:44.850 --> 02:09:46.330


02:09:44.860 --> 02:09:47.920
investigate and measure this orderly

02:09:46.320 --> 02:09:47.920


02:09:46.330 --> 02:09:49.870
universe number seven that people are

02:09:47.910 --> 02:09:49.870


02:09:47.920 --> 02:09:52.270
not mere chemicals but are free to make

02:09:49.860 --> 02:09:52.270


02:09:49.870 --> 02:09:55.000
choices and number eight and finally

02:09:52.260 --> 02:09:55.000


02:09:52.270 --> 02:09:57.370
that we are conscious beings and we

02:09:54.990 --> 02:09:57.370


02:09:55.000 --> 02:09:58.960
cannot explain ourselves by mere

02:09:57.360 --> 02:09:58.960


02:09:57.370 --> 02:10:01.719
chemicals we're something beyond

02:09:58.950 --> 02:10:01.719


02:09:58.960 --> 02:10:04.000
chemicals but atheism only has a

02:10:01.709 --> 02:10:04.000


02:10:01.719 --> 02:10:06.550
worldview that says all that exists or

02:10:03.990 --> 02:10:06.550


02:10:04.000 --> 02:10:08.530
chemicals because Christopher does a see

02:10:06.540 --> 02:10:08.530


02:10:06.550 --> 02:10:10.090
atheist friends have not been able to

02:10:08.520 --> 02:10:10.090


02:10:08.530 --> 02:10:12.550
explain any of these realities from an

02:10:10.080 --> 02:10:12.550


02:10:10.090 --> 02:10:15.310
atheistic perspective they have instead

02:10:12.540 --> 02:10:15.310


02:10:12.550 --> 02:10:18.190
relied on speculation in faith I don't

02:10:15.300 --> 02:10:18.190


02:10:15.310 --> 02:10:20.710
have enough faith to be an atheist as

02:10:18.180 --> 02:10:20.710


02:10:18.190 --> 02:10:22.810
one more other point Christopher may

02:10:20.700 --> 02:10:22.810


02:10:20.710 --> 02:10:25.600
think that there is no God and he hates

02:10:22.800 --> 02:10:25.600


02:10:22.810 --> 02:10:30.719
him but God thinks there is a

02:10:25.590 --> 02:10:30.719


02:10:25.600 --> 02:10:30.719
Christopher Hitchens and God loves him

02:10:49.040 --> 02:10:49.040


02:10:49.050 --> 02:10:56.320
well then I think let's first certainly

02:10:53.730 --> 02:10:56.320


02:10:53.740 --> 02:10:59.400
thank our debaters for a lively and

02:10:56.310 --> 02:10:59.400


02:10:56.320 --> 02:10:59.400
stimulating evening

02:11:19.649 --> 02:11:19.649


02:11:19.659 --> 02:11:23.859
good evening thank you again for coming