WEBVTT 00:00:00.650 --> 00:00:02.810 [Applause] 00:00:04.490 --> 00:00:05.779 Good morning. 00:00:05.779 --> 00:00:07.259 Very, very excited to be here. 00:00:08.148 --> 00:00:10.180 This, I think, is probably the largest crowd 00:00:10.180 --> 00:00:11.929 that I've spoken to before. 00:00:11.999 --> 00:00:14.568 And it's kind of interesting to see how ... 00:00:16.369 --> 00:00:17.790 I probably wouldn't be here 00:00:17.790 --> 00:00:19.619 if it wasn't for going out and learning 00:00:19.619 --> 00:00:21.980 and practicing Street Epistemology. 00:00:22.220 --> 00:00:24.389 And I think one of the reasons why I'm up here is 00:00:24.409 --> 00:00:27.850 because this approach has really sparked an interest. 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:30.319 I'm just a regular guy who decided to go out 00:00:30.319 --> 00:00:33.050 and just have conversations with people. 00:00:33.050 --> 00:00:35.010 And I think it's gotten a lot of attention 00:00:35.010 --> 00:00:36.900 from folks and I'm very excited to share it with you. 00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:39.850 I think this actually could be 00:00:39.850 --> 00:00:41.960 a turning point for atheism. 00:00:41.990 --> 00:00:43.929 I forgot that I have slides. There we go. 00:00:44.194 --> 00:00:46.004 [Laughing] 00:00:46.926 --> 00:00:47.926 Okay. 00:00:48.939 --> 00:00:51.240 And I think Street Epistemology is going 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.070 to be critical to the success of atheism. 00:00:55.070 --> 00:00:57.830 Which is why I'm very excited to tell you about it. 00:00:57.830 --> 00:01:00.269 We're gonna get really into 00:01:00.269 --> 00:01:03.130 my journey and this method. 00:01:07.820 --> 00:01:08.530 Okay. 00:01:09.670 --> 00:01:11.510 I also want to talk a little bit about truth. 00:01:11.550 --> 00:01:14.160 I want to kind of take a step back a little bit. 00:01:15.170 --> 00:01:17.630 When we have conversations with people, 00:01:17.630 --> 00:01:19.950 usually we're interested in 00:01:19.950 --> 00:01:22.220 changing their mind or helping them to 00:01:22.220 --> 00:01:24.220 believe true things and usually we want 00:01:24.220 --> 00:01:25.970 to believe true things as well. 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:28.310 So, we engage in debate or dialogue 00:01:28.370 --> 00:01:30.060 or conversation with them. 00:01:30.530 --> 00:01:32.519 But we have to remind ourselves 00:01:32.609 --> 00:01:35.510 that we ourselves are just as capable of believing things 00:01:35.620 --> 00:01:36.869 that are not true. 00:01:36.869 --> 00:01:38.189 It's entirely possible 00:01:38.189 --> 00:01:40.710 that a lot of the things that I believe are not true. 00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:47.590 So, what is the best way to determine what is true? 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:51.840 What is the best way to determine what is not true? 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:56.910 These are questions that have troubled humanity from the beginning, 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:04.379 but as atheists I think we try to accomplish this question about God 00:02:04.399 --> 00:02:07.088 when we engage in debate with people we tend to argue 00:02:07.088 --> 00:02:09.898 with them or discuss the finer points 00:02:09.918 --> 00:02:12.100 of the Bible, for example. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:14.470 And it's oftentimes hard to get 00:02:14.470 --> 00:02:16.230 into the mindset of a believer 00:02:16.230 --> 00:02:19.430 unless you discuss what that person believes. 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:22.700 We tend to focus a lot about that. 00:02:22.700 --> 00:02:24.820 We tend to focus a lot about what the person believes 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.470 as opposed to their reasons or their method. 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:29.570 And I think it's really important 00:02:29.570 --> 00:02:34.030 that as atheists we need to find a better way 00:02:34.070 --> 00:02:35.990 of figuring out what is true 00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:38.900 and helping people figure out what is not true. 00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:40.740 And again that's why I'm so excited to be here 00:02:40.750 --> 00:02:42.220 to tell you about this method 00:02:42.220 --> 00:02:45.210 because I think this might be the thing 00:02:45.230 --> 00:02:47.780 that helps atheists have better conversations 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.270 with the believers who are making these claims. 00:02:52.380 --> 00:02:53.090 Okay. 00:02:53.230 --> 00:02:54.435 I brought along-- 00:02:54.445 --> 00:02:55.682 Oh, did I kick out... 00:02:55.682 --> 00:02:56.630 Bruce here? 00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:00.600 Can you maximize that? 00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:03.660 Okay, that may have been my fault-- 00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:06.580 Okay. So, I brought along a couple of video clips here. 00:03:06.630 --> 00:03:08.700 So, just still just a little warning. 00:03:08.790 --> 00:03:10.290 The first video clip I want to show you 00:03:10.290 --> 00:03:11.730 is about two minutes long. 00:03:11.770 --> 00:03:13.380 I've got five video clips total, 00:03:13.390 --> 00:03:16.380 but I want to kind of show you how I used to go out 00:03:16.390 --> 00:03:18.460 and have talks with believers. 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:21.680 This is a street preacher in front of the Alamo. 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:24.150 And this was back in 2012. 00:03:24.150 --> 00:03:26.210 This is about two minutes long. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.140 He does talk about hell during this video. 00:03:30.140 --> 00:03:33.060 So, fair warning if that troubles you. 00:03:33.130 --> 00:03:35.420 You might want to be aware of that. 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.680 Oh, there are some people that are really troubled by it and that's fine. 00:03:39.730 --> 00:03:40.930 So, just fair warning. 00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:43.650 And this is NOT an example of Street Epistemology. 00:03:43.650 --> 00:03:45.540 Don't watch this video, walk out and think: 00:03:45.590 --> 00:03:48.470 �Oh, that's what Street Epistemology is.� 00:03:48.490 --> 00:03:50.510 And the other takeaway I wanted to let you know 00:03:50.510 --> 00:03:52.880 is that I'm not really proud of this exchange. 00:03:53.125 --> 00:03:54.125 [Laughing] 00:03:54.370 --> 00:03:55.620 So, here we go. 00:03:55.690 --> 00:03:56.359 Street preacher Phil. 00:03:56.359 --> 00:03:57.028 IL: Jesus says, 00:03:57.028 --> 00:03:57.842 [Playing video clip] 00:03:58.004 --> 00:04:00.814 "My mother and my brotheren are these 00:04:00.827 --> 00:04:02.447 which hear the word of God and do it." 00:04:02.655 --> 00:04:04.145 AM: You said that already. 00:04:04.195 --> 00:04:06.419 IL: You have the Word of God. It's in the King James Bible. 00:04:06.419 --> 00:04:08.410 It's not the Book of Mormon. 00:04:09.140 --> 00:04:10.900 It's not the Kabbalah. 00:04:11.030 --> 00:04:13.660 It's not the Babylonian Talmud. 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.029 There's just a word of God. 00:04:16.060 --> 00:04:17.279 The King James Bible. 00:04:17.320 --> 00:04:18.579 AM: There's just as much evidence 00:04:18.579 --> 00:04:20.789 for those Gods as there's for your God. 00:04:20.789 --> 00:04:21.639 IL: Not really. 00:04:21.659 --> 00:04:22.669 AM: Yes, there is. 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:24.510 There's zero evidence. 00:04:24.530 --> 00:04:25.990 IL: The Scripture says: 00:04:26.025 --> 00:04:28.935 "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." 00:04:29.220 --> 00:04:32.130 AM: That's what it says, but why should we believe it today? 00:04:32.130 --> 00:04:33.510 Why should we believe that? 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:36.350 IL: Now are you a Mormon or a Baptist or a Catholic 00:04:36.350 --> 00:04:39.400 or a Methodist, but are you saved? 00:04:39.500 --> 00:04:41.580 The Bible says we must be saved. 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:45.870 Jesus saved me in 1987 in the month of December 00:04:45.960 --> 00:04:48.970 and I'm not going back to what I was. 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:51.470 I'm no better than anybody else 00:04:51.470 --> 00:04:54.060 but, my friends, as a street preacher 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:58.500 I gotta warn you: There is a hell and you're going there. 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:00.430 AM: There's absolutely no there's 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:03.010 absolutely no evidence for a hell 00:05:03.010 --> 00:05:06.440 or a heaven or a purgatory. 00:05:06.460 --> 00:05:09.010 There's no evidence for that at all. 00:05:09.530 --> 00:05:11.050 IL: You'll find out! 00:05:11.350 --> 00:05:14.070 AM: How could you believe in something now 00:05:14.070 --> 00:05:16.730 without even knowing that it's true? 00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:19.480 AM: You point to the Bible again. 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:22.140 There's no evidence that the Bible is true. 00:05:22.140 --> 00:05:23.960 IL: You don't believe it, dude. 00:05:23.990 --> 00:05:26.020 AM: Of course I don't. I'm not convinced that it is true. 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:27.290 IL: Well, that's all right. 00:05:27.290 --> 00:05:29.440 I'm not condemning you because you don't, man! 00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:30.240 AM: You're making the claim. 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:31.570 You need to prove to me that it is true. 00:05:31.570 --> 00:05:33.160 IL: I don't have to prove to you anything. 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.907 AM: Yes, you do! 00:05:33.907 --> 00:05:36.773 You can't stand out here and make claims as if it's a fact! 00:05:36.773 --> 00:05:38.090 IL: Right here, man, that's my facts! 00:05:38.090 --> 00:05:39.440 AM: And scare these people and young kids. 00:05:39.505 --> 00:05:40.457 IL: Hey, listen dude ... 00:05:40.457 --> 00:05:41.917 AM: What's wrong with you? 00:05:42.053 --> 00:05:43.043 [Laughter] 00:05:43.176 --> 00:05:44.846 [Applause] 00:05:51.270 --> 00:05:54.810 I was kind of hoping that would NOT draw an applause line� 00:05:55.029 --> 00:05:56.519 [Laughter] 00:05:56.909 --> 00:06:00.040 You know, at the time it felt good to humiliate him. 00:06:00.070 --> 00:06:00.880 It really did. 00:06:00.880 --> 00:06:05.939 He was saying this nonsense and just yelling things and ... 00:06:05.979 --> 00:06:07.459 I wasn't aware that there is 00:06:07.459 --> 00:06:10.059 a potentially better way to interact with believers. 00:06:10.059 --> 00:06:11.710 So, I was arguing with him. 00:06:11.730 --> 00:06:14.010 I was just doing what just seemed natural 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:15.770 to point him to evidence, 00:06:15.770 --> 00:06:17.729 to challenge what he was saying. 00:06:17.729 --> 00:06:20.830 And I didn't realize it at the time 00:06:20.830 --> 00:06:23.310 that it probably didn't make me as an atheist 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:26.539 look very good standing out there. 00:06:26.539 --> 00:06:28.739 As I watch this even I noticed that he explains 00:06:28.739 --> 00:06:31.110 why he believes that it was true. 00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:33.300 He had a difficulty way back 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:34.870 when he gave an exact date. 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:36.500 There was some momentous occasion 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:38.280 and he didn't want to go back to that time. 00:06:38.570 --> 00:06:39.800 He didn't want to go back 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:41.409 to that time of where he was hurting. 00:06:41.449 --> 00:06:44.160 So, there's the motivation behind his belief. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:45.700 But I couldn't even see it 00:06:45.700 --> 00:06:47.250 because I was so interested in arguing 00:06:47.250 --> 00:06:50.389 with him and tearing him down. 00:06:50.389 --> 00:06:54.270 However, that approach I think does have its place. 00:06:54.270 --> 00:06:56.920 If you look there's people in the background watching. 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:58.140 There's a young couple there. 00:06:58.140 --> 00:07:00.150 Behind the sign there's a little kid. 00:07:00.150 --> 00:07:01.930 And you never know what that 00:07:01.930 --> 00:07:03.350 takeaway may have been. 00:07:03.350 --> 00:07:05.710 They may have been shocked to hear somebody 00:07:05.710 --> 00:07:07.980 standing up to a believer making a claim. 00:07:07.980 --> 00:07:10.680 They may have gone home to figure out is the Bible true. 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.330 You never know how that may 00:07:12.330 --> 00:07:14.300 have landed with people observing. 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:17.289 But let's think about Phil. 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.440 Do you think that his mind was changed that day? 00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:23.290 It's probably unlikely. 00:07:23.330 --> 00:07:27.859 More than likely he went home, read his Bible, said a prayer 00:07:27.859 --> 00:07:30.280 and was emboldened by that conversation. 00:07:30.280 --> 00:07:34.209 He's probably thinking that it's more true now than ever before 00:07:34.229 --> 00:07:36.709 because his belief stood up 00:07:36.709 --> 00:07:39.109 to the scrutiny of somebody yelling at him. 00:07:39.109 --> 00:07:42.020 And just a little side note: 00:07:42.020 --> 00:07:43.149 I follow the street preacher community a little bit. 00:07:43.149 --> 00:07:45.170 They love it when people argue with them. 00:07:45.170 --> 00:07:46.820 They love getting crowds. 00:07:46.820 --> 00:07:48.690 One of the worst things I think you could do 00:07:48.690 --> 00:07:50.410 is argue with a street preacher 00:07:50.410 --> 00:07:52.550 and draw a crowd because they see that as a success. 00:07:52.550 --> 00:07:55.299 So, please try to avoid doing that if you can. 00:07:56.099 --> 00:07:59.000 Now, I wasn't that aggressive with my family members. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.650 Okay, there was a brother-in-law. 00:08:00.650 --> 00:08:02.385 Maybe I was a little bit like that. 00:08:02.385 --> 00:08:03.505 [Laughter] 00:08:03.532 --> 00:08:05.252 But I'd laugh at them 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.080 and I'd spend hours digging up facts 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:09.209 to show that they were mistaken 00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:11.339 and I jeopardized those relationships 00:08:11.389 --> 00:08:13.170 and I'm still trying to rebuild them. 00:08:13.170 --> 00:08:15.850 Even though my style has changed completely from that, 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.761 I'm still trying to repair those relationships 00:08:18.761 --> 00:08:19.781 and that's what kind 00:08:19.781 --> 00:08:20.661 of one of the reasons why I'm so eager 00:08:20.661 --> 00:08:22.381 to be talking to you today 00:08:22.381 --> 00:08:25.651 because I suspect that many people have damaged 00:08:25.651 --> 00:08:27.381 relationships with their loved ones 00:08:27.381 --> 00:08:30.271 and friends and co-workers and so forth. 00:08:30.471 --> 00:08:32.131 And I'm really excited to be able 00:08:32.131 --> 00:08:34.010 to tell you about this approach. 00:08:35.321 --> 00:08:36.440 So, let's talk a little bit 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.181 about Street Epistemology here. 00:08:40.361 --> 00:08:41.361 Okay. 00:08:43.461 --> 00:08:46.121 I think Street Epistemology might be 00:08:46.121 --> 00:08:49.891 the best approach for having one-on-one conversations 00:08:49.891 --> 00:08:52.581 with people about their deeply held belief. 00:08:52.611 --> 00:08:54.531 I understand that that's a bold claim, 00:08:54.531 --> 00:08:56.681 but I've been doing this for five years 00:08:56.681 --> 00:08:59.671 and I've had profound one-on-one conversations, 00:08:59.671 --> 00:09:01.011 sometimes two-on-one. 00:09:01.011 --> 00:09:02.481 I'll talked to a Mormon couple. 00:09:02.481 --> 00:09:05.971 And we've talked for 30 minutes and it was one of the best conversations 00:09:05.971 --> 00:09:07.661 that I think I've ever had. 00:09:07.661 --> 00:09:10.481 So, before I could explain why I think 00:09:10.481 --> 00:09:12.441 Street Epistemology is going to be 00:09:12.441 --> 00:09:14.241 fundamental to the success of atheism 00:09:14.241 --> 00:09:16.000 --that it's a turning point 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:17.981 --I need to explain to you what Street Epistemology is. 00:09:17.981 --> 00:09:20.881 So, the "street" part of it simply means: 00:09:20.881 --> 00:09:22.131 "laymen engagements." 00:09:22.131 --> 00:09:24.391 You're having a conversation with somebody. 00:09:24.391 --> 00:09:26.891 You're not necessarily an expert in the Quran 00:09:26.891 --> 00:09:29.031 or the Bible or what the claim is, 00:09:29.031 --> 00:09:30.801 but you can engage with them. 00:09:30.801 --> 00:09:32.931 It's actually one of the strengths of this method, I think, 00:09:32.931 --> 00:09:34.401 is that you don't really have 00:09:34.401 --> 00:09:36.171 to be well-versed in the doctrine 00:09:36.171 --> 00:09:37.600 to have these dialogues. 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.541 In fact, I think the less you know about the claim 00:09:41.541 --> 00:09:43.671 the better questions you'll form 00:09:43.671 --> 00:09:45.761 when you have these conversations. 00:09:45.761 --> 00:09:48.651 So, the "epistemology" part is the study of knowledge. 00:09:48.651 --> 00:09:52.531 It's how a person determined that their belief is true. 00:09:52.531 --> 00:09:54.900 When you hear the word "epistemology", 00:09:54.900 --> 00:09:56.141 my recommendation would be: 00:09:56.141 --> 00:09:57.710 Just think of the word "method". 00:09:57.710 --> 00:10:00.261 Think of technique, think of approach. 00:10:00.261 --> 00:10:01.891 Something like that. 00:10:01.891 --> 00:10:04.941 I like to think of SE as a tool that we can use 00:10:04.941 --> 00:10:07.491 to challenge people respectfully. 00:10:09.571 --> 00:10:11.291 And this isn't my creation. 00:10:11.291 --> 00:10:12.751 I didn't come up with this. 00:10:12.751 --> 00:10:14.151 This came from a book called 00:10:14.151 --> 00:10:17.231 'A Manual for Creating Atheists' by Dr. Peter Boghossian. 00:10:17.231 --> 00:10:21.061 And it's based on the Socratic Method. 00:10:22.301 --> 00:10:23.451 I read the book, 00:10:23.451 --> 00:10:25.011 I started looking for examples online 00:10:25.011 --> 00:10:27.471 and there were no examples at all. 00:10:28.611 --> 00:10:29.931 And I would go out. 00:10:29.931 --> 00:10:32.451 I was going out to try to do Street Epistemology. 00:10:32.451 --> 00:10:34.431 There was one good "why" question in there. 00:10:34.431 --> 00:10:35.881 When I was yelling at that preacher: 00:10:35.881 --> 00:10:37.601 "Why do you think that it's true?" 00:10:37.601 --> 00:10:39.841 But there was no rapport building, 00:10:39.851 --> 00:10:42.031 the tone was horrible, 00:10:42.031 --> 00:10:45.811 and I certainly wasn't trying to understand his methodology. 00:10:45.811 --> 00:10:48.531 So, I've been going out 00:10:48.531 --> 00:10:50.771 and trying to sort of perfect that 00:10:50.771 --> 00:10:52.511 or hone this method the last five years. 00:10:52.511 --> 00:10:55.111 Here's the definition of it. 00:10:55.111 --> 00:10:56.251 Couple points of here. 00:10:56.281 --> 00:10:59.231 Street Epistemology is a conversational tool. 00:10:59.231 --> 00:11:00.231 It's not a debate. 00:11:01.031 --> 00:11:04.571 It's a polite discussion and it is a tool. 00:11:04.571 --> 00:11:05.971 It's something that you can use 00:11:05.971 --> 00:11:09.661 if the situation is appropriate depending on your goals. 00:11:09.661 --> 00:11:12.261 And the conversations tend 00:11:12.261 --> 00:11:14.151 to help people reflect or think 00:11:14.151 --> 00:11:17.221 about their belief long after the conversation ends. 00:11:17.541 --> 00:11:19.511 When I have a dialogue with somebody 00:11:19.511 --> 00:11:20.961 if they think about it then and there 00:11:20.961 --> 00:11:22.191 but never think about it again, 00:11:22.191 --> 00:11:24.391 then that's really not much of a success to me. 00:11:24.901 --> 00:11:26.801 I want these conversations 00:11:26.801 --> 00:11:28.691 to resonate with folks. 00:11:29.021 --> 00:11:32.311 And then we challenge the method that they used. 00:11:32.311 --> 00:11:34.011 Did they use a reliable method 00:11:34.011 --> 00:11:35.561 to come to that conclusion? 00:11:37.261 --> 00:11:37.971 All right. 00:11:38.801 --> 00:11:40.371 So, one of the things I think 00:11:40.371 --> 00:11:42.341 I need to kind of get out of the way really quick 00:11:42.341 --> 00:11:44.501 are some misconceptions of this, 00:11:44.501 --> 00:11:46.961 because the word "street" is in there 00:11:47.501 --> 00:11:49.671 and a lot of the examples are people 00:11:49.671 --> 00:11:51.101 going out with video cameras 00:11:51.101 --> 00:11:52.881 and uploading their conversations 00:11:52.881 --> 00:11:54.571 and they're like; "Oh, you're just like 00:11:54.571 --> 00:11:56.871 proselytizing for atheism there. 00:11:56.871 --> 00:11:58.721 �This is like Ray Comfort or something." 00:11:59.421 --> 00:12:02.101 There are no bananas in Street Epistemology. 00:12:02.156 --> 00:12:03.446 [Laughing] 00:12:03.458 --> 00:12:04.728 [Applause] 00:12:06.221 --> 00:12:09.151 Street Epistemology honestly is about helping people. 00:12:09.281 --> 00:12:10.861 It's helping people slow down 00:12:10.861 --> 00:12:12.641 and think about the belief that they formed. 00:12:12.641 --> 00:12:14.311 And did they use a reliable method. 00:12:14.311 --> 00:12:15.821 And it's not just about God claims. 00:12:15.821 --> 00:12:17.201 It could be about anything. 00:12:17.201 --> 00:12:18.721 Some of my best conversations have been 00:12:18.721 --> 00:12:21.671 with atheists who are dogmatically sure there are no Gods. 00:12:23.371 --> 00:12:26.011 SE is really good about encouraging 00:12:26.011 --> 00:12:28.291 people to be less dogmatic 00:12:28.291 --> 00:12:30.581 about the beliefs that they formed. 00:12:32.341 --> 00:12:34.191 And we try to uncover truth. 00:12:34.191 --> 00:12:37.851 Now these conversations can be initiated or organic. 00:12:38.351 --> 00:12:40.901 My preference is to have an organic chat 00:12:40.901 --> 00:12:42.501 like when I get in an Uber, 00:12:42.501 --> 00:12:44.241 I almost always have a chat 00:12:44.241 --> 00:12:45.931 with the driver about something. 00:12:45.931 --> 00:12:47.801 They make a claim and it's game on. 00:12:47.801 --> 00:12:51.041 I can start asking questions and we usually end it on good terms 00:12:51.041 --> 00:12:53.081 and they usually give me a 5 star rating. 00:12:53.081 --> 00:12:55.051 So, I think that's okay. 00:12:55.051 --> 00:12:59.361 And I do the same for them. 00:12:59.361 --> 00:13:00.721 So, I can understand how people might make the connection 00:13:00.721 --> 00:13:03.981 that this is like atheist evangelizing or something 00:13:04.621 --> 00:13:08.831 and I'm here giving a talk on Street Epistemology to American Atheists. 00:13:08.831 --> 00:13:11.171 So, I could understand how you can make that connection. 00:13:11.171 --> 00:13:14.511 But this is a tool that can be used for all different types of claims. 00:13:14.511 --> 00:13:17.851 It doesn't just have to be about challenging people about God. 00:13:17.851 --> 00:13:21.541 And this is so much about placing a pebble in a person's shoe, 00:13:22.331 --> 00:13:26.311 helping the person reflect on their belief formation process, 00:13:26.311 --> 00:13:28.761 so later, when the conversation�s over, 00:13:29.851 --> 00:13:33.011 they can ask themselves: "Do I need to maintain this belief?" 00:13:33.011 --> 00:13:35.431 "Do I need to lower my confidence in this belief?" 00:13:36.501 --> 00:13:38.691 "Should I discard this belief outright?" 00:13:39.801 --> 00:13:43.021 So, I wanted to put Street Epistemology in graphical form. 00:13:43.021 --> 00:13:47.301 Now, I have had a thousand conversations at least. 00:13:47.301 --> 00:13:49.361 I started looking at transcripts 00:13:49.361 --> 00:13:51.771 and I started noticing a little pattern: 00:13:51.771 --> 00:13:53.781 That we spend a little bit of time talking 00:13:53.781 --> 00:13:55.241 about what they believe, 00:13:55.241 --> 00:13:57.821 a little bit more time talking about why they believe it, 00:13:58.861 --> 00:14:00.531 but we spend a lot more time talking 00:14:00.551 --> 00:14:02.661 about how they determined that that belief is true. 00:14:02.881 --> 00:14:07.571 And that I think is what makes these conversations unique, 00:14:07.571 --> 00:14:10.201 and Socratic, and Street Epistemology, 00:14:10.201 --> 00:14:12.961 is that we're interested in their methodology. 00:14:12.961 --> 00:14:15.361 Here's a different way of looking at it. 00:14:15.831 --> 00:14:18.091 Same pyramid, but different words. 00:14:18.091 --> 00:14:19.991 So, we're interested in what they believe. 00:14:20.011 --> 00:14:21.681 We want to understand their reasons, 00:14:21.681 --> 00:14:22.861 their main reason, 00:14:22.861 --> 00:14:25.511 but it's the methodology that they used. 00:14:25.511 --> 00:14:27.751 So, when you think of Street Epistemology, think "method." 00:14:27.761 --> 00:14:29.571 We're very, very interested in the method. 00:14:29.571 --> 00:14:31.501 Because if the method is faulty, 00:14:32.721 --> 00:14:35.791 all the other things above it collapse. 00:14:36.721 --> 00:14:37.601 Okay. 00:14:37.701 --> 00:14:41.591 Now, that doesn't mean that what they're believing is not true. 00:14:41.611 --> 00:14:43.471 If they've based it on it [on an unreliable foundation]. 00:14:43.471 --> 00:14:45.651 I could base something on faith. 00:14:45.651 --> 00:14:47.441 I can realize it's a faulty methodology 00:14:47.441 --> 00:14:50.141 and what I'm believing could actually still be true. 00:14:50.141 --> 00:14:55.631 I get that, but ones confidence should probably be adjusted accordingly 00:14:55.701 --> 00:14:58.821 if they learned that their method was unreliable. 00:14:59.571 --> 00:15:00.521 Okay. 00:15:00.691 --> 00:15:02.301 A couple of video examples here. 00:15:04.201 --> 00:15:05.851 I want to talk to that actually. 00:15:05.851 --> 00:15:09.961 So, I was also thinking about these little [pyramid] sections here. 00:15:10.131 --> 00:15:12.401 When we talk about what a person believes, 00:15:12.401 --> 00:15:15.331 that's usually what the preacher tells you in Church. 00:15:15.331 --> 00:15:17.301 �This is what the Bible says," 00:15:17.301 --> 00:15:19.211 �This is what we believe." 00:15:19.211 --> 00:15:20.811 When you get to the apologists, 00:15:20.811 --> 00:15:22.071 the people that defend the faith. 00:15:22.071 --> 00:15:24.841 There was a guy [during the Q&A of the previous speaker] who said he was an apologist.. 00:15:24.841 --> 00:15:26.671 These are folks that defend the faith. 00:15:26.671 --> 00:15:29.431 They come up with reasons to justify the belief. 00:15:29.701 --> 00:15:30.486 Okay. 00:15:30.486 --> 00:15:31.911 So, there's this reason level, 00:15:31.911 --> 00:15:36.101 but very few people are looking at their foundation. 00:15:36.611 --> 00:15:39.321 And that's why these questions I think are powerful. 00:15:39.341 --> 00:15:41.731 Because we're not concerned with what you believe. 00:15:41.731 --> 00:15:45.441 We're not really concerned with why, but how did you determine that it's true. 00:15:45.441 --> 00:15:47.501 And the apologists are taken aback by this. 00:15:47.561 --> 00:15:49.371 I'll get into this a little bit later. 00:15:49.371 --> 00:15:51.091 They're a little worried about this. 00:15:51.091 --> 00:15:52.191 Okay! 00:15:54.001 --> 00:15:56.951 When I first started doing this there were no video examples. 00:15:56.951 --> 00:16:00.291 Today there are hundreds and some of my favorites are not even mine. 00:16:00.401 --> 00:16:02.781 It's really neat to see other people 00:16:02.781 --> 00:16:05.671 going out, people in France and England. 00:16:06.941 --> 00:16:08.031 Finland, for example. 00:16:08.031 --> 00:16:11.791 They are going out and having talks all across the United States. 00:16:12.601 --> 00:16:14.721 And this is probably an understatement, 00:16:14.721 --> 00:16:17.971 but Street Epistemology did not come naturally to me. 00:16:19.111 --> 00:16:22.671 I was arguing with street preacher Phil there 00:16:23.001 --> 00:16:25.771 for a good year and a half, I was. 00:16:25.931 --> 00:16:27.481 But I was getting out of it. 00:16:27.481 --> 00:16:32.171 It was evolving, but uploading these videos, as horrible as they were, 00:16:32.321 --> 00:16:34.511 I was getting feedback from folks saying; 00:16:34.511 --> 00:16:36.721 "Hey, is that really Street Epistemology?" 00:16:36.721 --> 00:16:39.921 And, "Shouldn't you be asking questions rather than telling them what to think." 00:16:39.921 --> 00:16:42.471 So, it was changing the way that I was behaving, 00:16:42.471 --> 00:16:45.491 it was changing my interactions, and I think, for the better. 00:16:46.391 --> 00:16:50.181 So, I realized that it's kind of difficult to explain what Street Epistemology is. 00:16:50.181 --> 00:16:51.991 I want to show you a couple of examples. 00:16:51.991 --> 00:16:54.591 I have four little video clips, and they're super short. 00:16:55.481 --> 00:16:57.801 This next one this is a good one. 00:17:00.681 --> 00:17:02.411 A couple of things here. 00:17:02.411 --> 00:17:04.421 I'm going to make sure not to laugh into the mic. 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:06.680 So, a couple things here. 00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:11.189 Set aside your view on pornography whether you think it's harmful or not. 00:17:11.189 --> 00:17:12.901 That's not the point of this little clip. 00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:15.799 The point is to demonstrate the mechanics of Street Epistemology. 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:17.770 This also shows that you don't have 00:17:17.770 --> 00:17:20.740 to use Street Epistemology for just God claims. 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:22.201 It's excellent for it, 00:17:22.201 --> 00:17:25.339 but in this case the topic of pornography comes up here. 00:17:26.040 --> 00:17:28.050 And the other takeaway, I think, 00:17:28.050 --> 00:17:30.861 is try to set aside your biases. 00:17:30.861 --> 00:17:33.561 When I'm having a dialogue with a person, 00:17:35.151 --> 00:17:38.171 my stance on pornography is not important at this point. 00:17:38.671 --> 00:17:41.721 I want to understand why HE thinks that it's harmful for example. 00:17:41.721 --> 00:17:43.781 So, that's what this conversation is about. 00:17:44.341 --> 00:17:47.541 And pay close attention to the real reason 00:17:47.541 --> 00:17:50.941 why he holds his view on pornography. 00:17:50.941 --> 00:17:53.951 IL: The scientific evidence is 00:17:53.951 --> 00:17:55.801 just like any kind of drug, you know, 00:17:55.801 --> 00:17:57.571 like, the first time you watch it. 00:17:57.571 --> 00:17:59.061 AM: Do you value scientific evidence? 00:17:59.061 --> 00:18:00.341 IL: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 00:18:00.341 --> 00:18:05.291 AM: Denzel, if we can provide you, 00:18:05.291 --> 00:18:08.181 if I can provide you or somebody that follows us closely.. 00:18:08.361 --> 00:18:11.241 If I discovered some scientific evidence that showed that everything 00:18:11.251 --> 00:18:14.551 that you've just described very eloquently, 00:18:14.571 --> 00:18:18.201 that it doesn't work in that way. 00:18:18.211 --> 00:18:20.371 They've interviewed 10,000 porn stars 00:18:20.371 --> 00:18:22.651 and a hundred thousand men and women. 00:18:22.651 --> 00:18:29.071 And the overall result suggests that it's a positive. 00:18:29.516 --> 00:18:30.216 All right. 00:18:30.216 --> 00:18:33.021 People feel better about themselves. They�re living longer, 00:18:33.051 --> 00:18:36.601 marriages are actually prospering, 00:18:36.601 --> 00:18:39.091 crime is going down, like across the board. 00:18:39.091 --> 00:18:40.301 And I don't even know if that can even be measured, 00:18:40.301 --> 00:18:48.751 but if it could, if there was a reliable study that 00:18:48.751 --> 00:18:52.361 showed something completely different than what you're outlining just now, 00:18:52.391 --> 00:18:55.181 would you change your mind on it? 00:18:56.496 --> 00:18:57.766 IL: No, I wouldn't. 00:18:57.801 --> 00:18:59.711 Because at the end of the day 00:18:59.721 --> 00:19:04.081 I do value like, you know, scientific evidence, historical evidence 00:19:04.081 --> 00:19:06.461 and that kind of stuff. 00:19:06.461 --> 00:19:08.291 But at the heart of it I'm a Christian. 00:19:08.291 --> 00:19:10.171 So, I live by a finite set of principles. 00:19:11.851 --> 00:19:12.661 Okay. 00:19:14.751 --> 00:19:15.921 That was Denzel. 00:19:16.541 --> 00:19:18.941 So, we could have spent a lot of time wasted 00:19:18.941 --> 00:19:20.831 just discussing pornography, 00:19:22.171 --> 00:19:24.451 because he admits there that it's not based on evidence. 00:19:24.451 --> 00:19:26.051 Even if he was shown evidence 00:19:26.051 --> 00:19:28.391 that it was not harmful, he'd still hold the belief. 00:19:28.601 --> 00:19:31.541 And that's what I love about this method is that it's efficient. 00:19:31.571 --> 00:19:34.841 You don't have to spend any time arguing about things that don't matter. 00:19:35.511 --> 00:19:39.441 If somebody raises contradictions in the Bible as their reason, but they�d 00:19:39.441 --> 00:19:42.401 still believe if every contradiction was adequately explained, 00:19:42.401 --> 00:19:45.321 don't discuss contradictions with them. 00:19:45.321 --> 00:19:46.431 Move on to the real reasons. 00:19:46.431 --> 00:19:47.431 Get to the core. 00:19:47.431 --> 00:19:49.011 Get to the lowest level. 00:19:49.161 --> 00:19:52.591 And that�s what I think is so great about Street Epistemology. 00:19:52.591 --> 00:19:53.881 If I were to meet with him again, 00:19:53.961 --> 00:19:56.131 I wouldn't discuss porn at all. 00:19:56.151 --> 00:19:58.311 I would talk about why he thinks his God is real. 00:19:59.291 --> 00:20:00.881 And what's really interesting is 00:20:00.881 --> 00:20:03.261 that once that God belief goes, 00:20:03.261 --> 00:20:04.051 so many other beliefs fall away. 00:20:04.051 --> 00:20:06.191 Well, and I'm sure many people here used to believe in God.. 00:20:06.191 --> 00:20:07.621 Once you lose that God belief, 00:20:07.621 --> 00:20:09.581 so many other things fall by the wayside. 00:20:10.501 --> 00:20:12.801 So, I'd love the efficiency of this approach. 00:20:13.651 --> 00:20:16.161 And you may have noticed that 00:20:16.161 --> 00:20:18.491 I didn't give him statistics 00:20:18.491 --> 00:20:21.771 to show how beneficial pornography was or anything like that. 00:20:21.771 --> 00:20:23.891 It probably would've been way more 00:20:23.891 --> 00:20:25.261 likely [this this talk] would have been 00:20:25.261 --> 00:20:26.971 a waste of time with this individual. 00:20:26.971 --> 00:20:28.811 In fact, there's this thing called the backfire effect. 00:20:30.121 --> 00:20:31.481 I don't know if I'm... 00:20:31.481 --> 00:20:33.511 Show of hands, who's heard of this before? 00:20:34.231 --> 00:20:35.971 Lots of hands, good. Okay. 00:20:36.711 --> 00:20:38.401 So, this is somewhat controversial. 00:20:38.431 --> 00:20:40.661 This is a hypothesis that suggests 00:20:40.661 --> 00:20:42.731 that if you provide people with evidence 00:20:42.731 --> 00:20:43.990 that shows that they're mistaken, 00:20:43.990 --> 00:20:46.850 especially on a belief that's very tied to who they are, 00:20:46.850 --> 00:20:49.571 they are less likely to accept your evidence 00:20:49.571 --> 00:20:51.081 and let it change their mind. 00:20:51.081 --> 00:20:55.801 Now, the backfire effect part of that 00:20:55.801 --> 00:20:58.701 is that some people even believe what they believe even more. 00:20:59.071 --> 00:21:01.911 There does seem to be some new research that suggests that 00:21:01.911 --> 00:21:04.901 people sometimes might accept your evidence, 00:21:04.901 --> 00:21:09.061 but their attitude doesn't change about the belief. 00:21:09.261 --> 00:21:11.901 So, I think we're still good with the SE thing here. 00:21:12.081 --> 00:21:14.541 And that's the beauty of this approach. 00:21:14.581 --> 00:21:16.660 We're not debating what they believe. 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:18.841 We aren't dismissing their reasons. 00:21:18.841 --> 00:21:20.411 You don't need to know anything 00:21:20.411 --> 00:21:22.541 about their holy book or anything like that. 00:21:22.541 --> 00:21:26.111 You don't even have to provide evidence to a person when you have these talks. 00:21:26.111 --> 00:21:27.741 It kind of takes the pressure off. 00:21:27.741 --> 00:21:30.731 "I'm a questioner, help me understand, 00:21:30.731 --> 00:21:33.020 teach me why you think that this is true." 00:21:33.020 --> 00:21:35.661 When you start looking at these conversations that way, 00:21:36.831 --> 00:21:38.491 I think it's really like I said, 00:21:38.491 --> 00:21:39.801 it does take the pressure off. 00:21:39.801 --> 00:21:41.931 It makes these conversations so much easier. 00:21:46.261 --> 00:21:48.631 And somebody once described this approach 00:21:48.631 --> 00:21:50.981 as making people "comfortably uncomfortable." 00:21:50.981 --> 00:21:52.581 You may have noticed the difference 00:21:52.581 --> 00:21:54.330 between the conversation with Denzel 00:21:54.330 --> 00:21:55.471 and the one with Phil. 00:21:55.491 --> 00:21:57.171 How drastic a difference. 00:21:57.171 --> 00:21:58.591 I was asking him questions. 00:21:58.591 --> 00:22:01.471 I was listening to him, and that type of thing. 00:22:01.521 --> 00:22:02.280 Okay. 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:03.730 One more video clip. 00:22:03.730 --> 00:22:06.341 I've got about 15-16 minutes, it looks like, left. 00:22:06.761 --> 00:22:09.531 This is Gordon. This is two and a half minutes long. 00:22:09.531 --> 00:22:12.021 He's elderly and I picked this one 00:22:12.021 --> 00:22:14.561 because a lot of the early examples 00:22:14.561 --> 00:22:16.161 that I uploaded was me interviewing 00:22:16.161 --> 00:22:18.340 college-age students on campuses 00:22:18.340 --> 00:22:19.861 and people would say �you're just picking on young, 00:22:19.861 --> 00:22:21.701 inexperienced people." 00:22:21.901 --> 00:22:24.080 So, I said "I'm gonna go talk to some older people." 00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:25.411 So, for the last two years I've been 00:22:25.411 --> 00:22:26.871 on this hiking trail, talking to people, 00:22:26.871 --> 00:22:28.481 and this is Gordon. 00:22:30.451 --> 00:22:32.201 So, there's really no age limit 00:22:32.201 --> 00:22:33.780 but during this little talk, 00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:35.051 which is two minutes long, 00:22:36.131 --> 00:22:38.591 the video will stop twice when he says something 00:22:38.631 --> 00:22:41.501 that I think would be raw meat to an atheist. 00:22:42.461 --> 00:22:43.891 Where you'd hear it and you're like: 00:22:43.891 --> 00:22:46.171 "There's no way he's getting away with that." 00:22:46.266 --> 00:22:47.266 [Laughing] 00:22:48.211 --> 00:22:52.141 So, the video pauses at those moments 00:22:52.141 --> 00:22:54.571 and a picture of my face will appear. 00:22:54.571 --> 00:22:57.431 I was gonna have a picture of raw meat show up. 00:22:57.431 --> 00:23:00.521 It's just my face like: "Mm-hmm� in a thinker�s pose. 00:23:00.521 --> 00:23:02.191 When that happens you'll be alerted 00:23:02.191 --> 00:23:04.641 to that and there's a really big reveal at the end. 00:23:04.641 --> 00:23:05.481 So, pay attention. 00:23:06.431 --> 00:23:10.351 AM: Why Gordon do you believe that a God even exists? 00:23:10.351 --> 00:23:12.651 IL: Because I was brought up a Christian. 00:23:12.651 --> 00:23:17.131 I've brought up to believe that. 00:23:17.811 --> 00:23:18.691 I mean. 00:23:19.341 --> 00:23:22.831 AM: How long have you had the belief? 00:23:22.831 --> 00:23:25.431 IL: Since I was able to think. 00:23:25.471 --> 00:23:27.071 [he laughs] 00:23:30.351 --> 00:23:32.651 And it gets stronger as I grew older. 00:23:32.651 --> 00:23:34.191 AM: Interesting. 00:23:34.236 --> 00:23:35.406 IL: Yeah. 00:23:40.141 --> 00:23:45.531 AM: Yesterday I ran into a family that had a little four month-old baby 00:23:45.531 --> 00:23:46.981 IL: Uh-huh. 00:23:46.991 --> 00:23:49.350 AM: and they identified themselves as Christians, 00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:52.151 but they could have easily been Hindus or 00:23:52.151 --> 00:23:54.341 Muslims or Pagans ... 00:23:54.416 --> 00:23:55.568 IL: Doesn't matter. 00:23:55.568 --> 00:23:57.768 Well, not Pagans. Pagans are non-believers. 00:23:57.843 --> 00:24:01.503 [Laughing] 00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:04.129 But, it doesn't matter what what religion you come from 00:24:04.151 --> 00:24:06.590 or what your ethnicity is 00:24:06.610 --> 00:24:10.720 as long as you believe in a Supreme Being. 00:24:10.830 --> 00:24:12.651 You can call him Allah or God or 00:24:12.651 --> 00:24:15.581 Neihu or whatever as long as you believe 00:24:15.581 --> 00:24:19.321 in the same being, it doesn't matter. 00:24:19.971 --> 00:24:22.430 AM: Let's say that little girl is raised 00:24:22.430 --> 00:24:24.311 to believe that there's no God. 00:24:24.756 --> 00:24:26.576 IL: Well, I feel sorry for her. 00:24:26.636 --> 00:24:29.686 [Laughing] 00:24:29.696 --> 00:24:32.580 AM: Would she be just as correct in her belief as you 00:24:32.580 --> 00:24:34.220 being raised with your belief? 00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:38.401 IL: Just as correct? 00:24:39.651 --> 00:24:41.191 No, I mean ... 00:24:41.191 --> 00:24:42.211 AM: Why not? 00:24:42.211 --> 00:24:47.631 IL: Because just we're all created for us by God 00:24:47.661 --> 00:24:51.460 and we look for eternal life 00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:54.781 and that comes through salvation. 00:24:54.781 --> 00:24:58.001 And if you don't believe in God then you can't have salvation. 00:24:58.201 --> 00:25:02.000 AM: Are you saying that if a child 00:25:02.050 --> 00:25:04.661 is raised to believe in a God, 00:25:04.661 --> 00:25:07.830 they're justified in having the belief 00:25:07.830 --> 00:25:10.580 but if a child is raised to believe in no gods, they're not? 00:25:10.580 --> 00:25:13.291 IL: A young child has no concept 00:25:13.291 --> 00:25:15.481 of what's right or wrong at that point. 00:25:15.481 --> 00:25:17.231 They believe only what they're told 00:25:17.231 --> 00:25:19.551 And so what they are taught 00:25:19.551 --> 00:25:21.901 in the first five years of life 00:25:21.901 --> 00:25:24.641 will probably be with them for the rest of their life. 00:25:24.641 --> 00:25:26.311 Which is unfortunate. 00:25:26.601 --> 00:25:29.911 [Laughing] 00:25:34.081 --> 00:25:34.900 Okay. 00:25:36.540 --> 00:25:39.640 So, because I avoided the raw meat 00:25:39.651 --> 00:25:42.200 of those two exchanges there 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:43.155 when he said that. 00:25:43.155 --> 00:25:44.741 He said pagans are non-believers. 00:25:44.741 --> 00:25:45.891 Well, that's not true. 00:25:45.891 --> 00:25:47.370 I could have interrupted him 00:25:47.370 --> 00:25:48.651 and corrected him and we could have gone on 00:25:48.651 --> 00:25:50.021 this different tangent, but I didn't. 00:25:50.021 --> 00:25:52.061 I just let it go. It's not important, really. 00:25:52.061 --> 00:25:54.151 And then he said; "I'd feel sorry for the little girl 00:25:54.151 --> 00:25:56.161 who was raised atheist." 00:25:56.161 --> 00:25:59.631 That pisses me off. 00:25:59.631 --> 00:26:01.641 I have two kids and they're the greatest kids. 00:26:01.641 --> 00:26:04.170 But that really has nothing to do with it. 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:08.240 But if I went ... If I chased those distractions, 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.681 it would have been really unfortunate if I had done that 00:26:11.681 --> 00:26:13.070 because we wouldn't have had 00:26:13.070 --> 00:26:16.511 that wonderful discovery at the end, really quickly. 00:26:19.271 --> 00:26:23.061 It's easy to be angry when you hear stuff like that. 00:26:23.061 --> 00:26:26.240 Okay. Because let's face it: 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.691 We were told lies by the people that we love and it hurts. 00:26:31.041 --> 00:26:32.171 We have a right to be angry. 00:26:32.171 --> 00:26:35.530 We really do and yet most of us found our way out. 00:26:35.530 --> 00:26:36.771 And I'm hopeful that 00:26:36.771 --> 00:26:39.301 we can channel that anger into something positive. 00:26:39.691 --> 00:26:41.211 Try to let those things slide 00:26:41.211 --> 00:26:42.801 for the benefit of the conversation, 00:26:42.831 --> 00:26:44.691 for the benefit of the discovery. 00:26:44.761 --> 00:26:47.511 Like I did there with our friend Gordon. 00:26:48.201 --> 00:26:49.571 Alright. I've got one more clip 00:26:49.641 --> 00:26:51.731 Gosh, I just have 10 minutes left. 00:26:51.731 --> 00:26:54.100 I think I'm going to skip this clip 00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:56.091 That kills me to do that. 00:26:56.916 --> 00:26:58.896 [Protest from the public] 00:26:59.601 --> 00:27:01.761 It's not in my control. I'm sorry. 00:27:03.701 --> 00:27:06.791 [Laughter] 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:10.910 This clip that's this minute... 00:27:10.910 --> 00:27:12.610 I'm trying to decide where to go here. 00:27:12.630 --> 00:27:13.840 Alright, let's stop talking about it. 00:27:13.870 --> 00:27:15.000 I'm gonna show you one more clip. 00:27:15.030 --> 00:27:16.660 I talked about the angry atheist. 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.545 This is Joanna, and we're on a trail. 00:27:18.545 --> 00:27:21.620 She said she was ninety percent confident that God it was real. 00:27:21.620 --> 00:27:24.300 She pumps it up to a hundred after ten minutes into the talk. 00:27:24.300 --> 00:27:26.480 This is about twenty minutes into the talk. 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:28.470 It's a five-minute chat 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:30.110 and I want you to notice 00:27:30.110 --> 00:27:33.190 her thinker's pose. And notice the pacing of this, 00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:34.950 notice the calm nature of it, 00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:37.550 notice the respect and the attention, 00:27:37.550 --> 00:27:39.770 and the intention of wanting to fully understand 00:27:39.770 --> 00:27:41.170 what she's saying. 00:27:44.780 --> 00:27:46.910 AM: If this belief that's in your head 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:49.550 and this hundred percent certainty 00:27:49.550 --> 00:27:53.770 that the God exists 00:27:53.790 --> 00:27:58.010 is based on a foundation of you being raised and taught something, 00:27:59.020 --> 00:28:02.550 how can you be certain that it's actually true? 00:28:04.365 --> 00:28:07.075 IL: That's kind of like we we�re talking about earlier. 00:28:07.097 --> 00:28:10.797 It's very faith-based. 00:28:10.950 --> 00:28:14.170 AM: We're gonna to definitely have to unpack this faith based thing. 00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:16.050 IL: It's pretty broad. 00:28:16.090 --> 00:28:17.070 Um ... 00:28:17.930 --> 00:28:19.451 AM: On what is a faith based... 00:28:19.471 --> 00:28:22.471 IL: "Faith based" is that you can't see Him. 00:28:22.496 --> 00:28:24.128 You can't always hear Him. 00:28:24.128 --> 00:28:26.851 You just have to believe that 00:28:26.851 --> 00:28:28.760 He'll pull through for your favor. 00:28:28.760 --> 00:28:30.450 And even if it isn't in your favor, 00:28:30.450 --> 00:28:32.330 that can work into your favor somehow. 00:28:32.330 --> 00:28:34.730 'Cause a lot of negative things happen in life, 00:28:34.730 --> 00:28:39.650 but really depends on which route you take. 00:28:40.145 --> 00:28:40.945 But... 00:28:41.695 --> 00:28:42.501 Gosh... 00:28:42.511 --> 00:28:43.641 How... 00:28:43.651 --> 00:28:47.060 That's the only way to put it too. 00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:49.940 I just think it's something that's inside of you as well. 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.461 Which could go along other religions, too. 00:28:52.501 --> 00:28:54.001 'Cause, like, being out in nature 00:28:54.001 --> 00:28:55.341 gives you a lot of peace. 00:28:55.341 --> 00:28:57.711 When I pray I have a lot of peace. 00:28:57.711 --> 00:29:00.001 I feel like I have more direction. 00:29:00.001 --> 00:29:02.211 I pause and reflect more. 00:29:04.531 --> 00:29:05.380 You know. 00:29:05.380 --> 00:29:08.730 You can never be... 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:09.565 Ahh... 00:29:09.590 --> 00:29:12.490 kind of like you're thinking about that 90%, but... 00:29:14.050 --> 00:29:15.781 I don't know how else to put it! 00:29:15.781 --> 00:29:16.501 That's hard. 00:29:16.501 --> 00:29:20.811 I haven't actually talked that out with somebody before fully. 00:29:20.830 --> 00:29:22.270 I don't really have words. 00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:23.500 AM: That's fine. 00:29:23.500 --> 00:29:25.976 Now can I ask you one more question and then we'll wrap it up? 00:29:25.976 --> 00:29:27.416 IL: Yeah. 00:29:35.061 --> 00:29:38.251 AM: I suppose my question is: 00:29:38.251 --> 00:29:45.741 if you couldn't use faith to conclude that your God exists, 00:29:45.771 --> 00:29:48.671 to know with 100% level of confidence... 00:29:48.671 --> 00:29:53.681 If a faith-based foundation wasn't an option for you, 00:29:53.711 --> 00:29:54.671 IL: Mmm-hmm. 00:29:55.591 --> 00:30:00.611 where do you think you would be in terms of your confidence that God existed. 00:30:02.031 --> 00:30:04.621 IL: It wouldn't be very high. 00:30:04.621 --> 00:30:07.261 Because like I said before, there's not really ... 00:30:07.261 --> 00:30:10.031 He's not literally standing in front of us, right now? 00:30:10.051 --> 00:30:12.071 IF that makes sense. I mean ... 00:30:13.611 --> 00:30:15.691 AM: So, you can't see Him, you can't hear ... 00:30:16.501 --> 00:30:19.561 IL: A lot of people kind of need concrete things in front of them 00:30:19.561 --> 00:30:22.681 in order to kind of have that 100% ... faith. 00:30:22.681 --> 00:30:24.066 Not faith-based, sorry. 00:30:24.066 --> 00:30:27.266 100% trust in something. 00:30:27.348 --> 00:30:31.368 Especially something that you base your whole life off of. 00:30:31.368 --> 00:30:35.014 I feel like if you don't have ... 00:30:35.024 --> 00:30:38.641 Faith is one of those things where you don't always feel like you're in control. 00:30:38.641 --> 00:30:43.421 And I feel like as humans we always like to have control. 00:30:43.431 --> 00:30:45.141 It's another thing where I kind of stray 00:30:45.151 --> 00:30:47.001 everyone kind of strays off of their path, 00:30:47.001 --> 00:30:48.791 but I always find my way back. 00:30:48.811 --> 00:30:49.581 AM: Okay. 00:30:51.491 --> 00:30:53.811 May I ask you one more question. 00:30:53.811 --> 00:30:56.411 And I promise this will be the last one unless you say: 00:30:56.441 --> 00:30:58.941 "Please, keep asking me questions." But this is my last. 00:31:03.481 --> 00:31:04.971 In these conversations 00:31:04.971 --> 00:31:06.641 that I've had with lots of people 00:31:06.891 --> 00:31:09.581 regardless of what God they believe in 00:31:09.581 --> 00:31:11.951 and regardless of how they were raised. 00:31:11.951 --> 00:31:15.081 They will often say that "I believe it because of faith." 00:31:15.081 --> 00:31:17.401 I can't see the God. I can't hear the God. 00:31:17.401 --> 00:31:20.441 But I believe it and they are believing 00:31:20.441 --> 00:31:24.171 in completely different deities, wildly different. 00:31:24.226 --> 00:31:25.256 IL: Yeah. 00:31:25.256 --> 00:31:29.901 So, my last question to you is: 00:31:29.901 --> 00:31:31.610 [Sounds] 00:31:33.341 --> 00:31:37.411 Is faith a reliable way to come to know something to be true, 00:31:37.411 --> 00:31:42.911 if anyone can use it for anything? 00:31:43.671 --> 00:31:45.661 IL: That's a good question. 00:31:46.366 --> 00:31:47.486 Oh. Wow! 00:31:51.018 --> 00:31:52.838 You got me there. 00:31:54.921 --> 00:31:57.290 It doesn't change what I believe. 00:31:57.305 --> 00:31:58.485 But ... 00:32:00.502 --> 00:32:02.322 You actually have a good point. 00:32:02.346 --> 00:32:05.086 A lot of religions are a lot of faith ... 00:32:05.113 --> 00:32:06.753 Um, is faith-based. 00:32:10.876 --> 00:32:11.748 AM: I beg your pardon. 00:32:11.748 --> 00:32:15.458 Is there another way you can ask that? 00:32:16.190 --> 00:32:19.121 IL: Or is it a question or is it kind of like an open-ended ... 00:32:19.161 --> 00:32:21.781 AM: We can certainly end it on that point and if you want to... 00:32:21.781 --> 00:32:24.771 you seem like a thinker and if you want to think about it 00:32:24.841 --> 00:32:26.120 And we can ... 00:32:26.170 --> 00:32:27.731 And if I never hear from you again 00:32:27.731 --> 00:32:28.930 that's fine but if you want to ping me, 00:32:28.930 --> 00:32:29.991 I can give you my email address. 00:32:30.021 --> 00:32:31.391 IL: Yeah. 00:32:31.611 --> 00:32:34.191 AM: I can rephrase it, to leave it with you one more time. 00:32:34.191 --> 00:32:35.761 You can think about it I'll give you the card. 00:32:35.811 --> 00:32:37.370 So, I suppose the final question 00:32:37.370 --> 00:32:39.541 that you can either answer now 00:32:39.541 --> 00:32:44.381 or just think about it would be: 00:32:45.121 --> 00:32:52.291 If anyone can use faith to conclude that anything is true, 00:32:52.311 --> 00:32:55.100 why on earth would they want to use that method? 00:32:56.350 --> 00:32:57.350 IL: Mmm-hmm. 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:00.061 That's a good one. 00:33:00.091 --> 00:33:01.231 I'm going to ponder. 00:33:01.241 --> 00:33:03.171 I'm definitely a thinker. 00:33:10.711 --> 00:33:13.450 I have five minutes here. 00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:15.990 So, just really quick. 00:33:15.990 --> 00:33:17.541 Did you notice the pacing of it? 00:33:17.541 --> 00:33:19.910 Did you notice that it was calm? I was asking questions. 00:33:19.910 --> 00:33:22.311 I wasn't telling her a damn thing. 00:33:22.311 --> 00:33:23.821 I was just giving her some of my observations. 00:33:23.821 --> 00:33:25.961 I was telling a story like the previous speaker had mentioned. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.481 The importance of storytelling. 00:33:28.481 --> 00:33:32.461 Now this approach is freaking out professional believers. 00:33:32.461 --> 00:33:34.521 They're worried about it because I think they would 00:33:34.521 --> 00:33:38.760 rather see us argue like I did there with street preacher Phil. 00:33:40.750 --> 00:33:42.701 It's a lot easier to demonize an atheist 00:33:42.701 --> 00:33:45.780 when I'm behaving like that as opposed to 00:33:45.780 --> 00:33:47.741 when I'm having a cordial conversation 00:33:47.741 --> 00:33:51.721 with somebody like Joanna there. 00:33:51.721 --> 00:33:53.231 Okay. I've got one more video and we got like three minutes left. 00:33:53.231 --> 00:33:54.240 So, let�s wrap this up. 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.961 This one is one and a half minutes long 00:33:55.961 --> 00:33:57.920 and I'm showing you this video 00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:59.951 because this one is so cool. 00:33:59.951 --> 00:34:03.881 It's this couple, we start talking how this fellow is getting pressure from one... 00:34:03.881 --> 00:34:06.721 He's a Christian. He's hundred percent sure yet he's getting 00:34:06.721 --> 00:34:08.299 pressure from one of his friends 00:34:08.299 --> 00:34:09.351 who's a Jehovah's Witness. 00:34:09.351 --> 00:34:12.761 And we had this wonderful conversation. 00:34:12.761 --> 00:34:14.351 His wife came up and listened mostly. 00:34:14.351 --> 00:34:18.779 And he's extolling the virtues of the conversation that he just had 00:34:18.779 --> 00:34:20.329 where I was using this approach. 00:34:20.329 --> 00:34:21.509 IL: But you got me thinking though, Anthony! 00:34:21.509 --> 00:34:22.768 I might have to email you. 00:34:22.849 --> 00:34:23.649 James ... 00:34:23.918 --> 00:34:25.569 AM: Nothing will make me happier. 00:34:25.589 --> 00:34:27.518 [continues giving his email] 00:34:28.724 --> 00:34:31.074 IL: Don't put it in the junk folder! 00:34:31.109 --> 00:34:32.331 AM: I'll be watching for it. 00:34:32.331 --> 00:34:33.311 AM: Yeah, hit me up. 00:34:33.331 --> 00:34:34.821 I'd really like to find out if there's 00:34:34.821 --> 00:34:37.520 a better way to conclude that this God exists 00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:39.371 other than the reasons that you gave me. 00:34:39.371 --> 00:34:42.051 Do you find that the reasons 00:34:42.051 --> 00:34:43.260 that you've explained to me, 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:44.228 very great, very well... 00:34:44.253 --> 00:34:45.958 IL: That's a good question for my friend... 00:34:45.958 --> 00:34:47.688 That's a good question for him. 00:34:47.704 --> 00:34:48.400 AM: Why? 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.960 IL: 'Cause he's so strong in his beliefs! 00:34:50.966 --> 00:34:51.735 AM: Mmmm. 00:34:51.735 --> 00:34:52.572 IL: You know? 00:34:52.572 --> 00:34:53.492 My buddy, Gilbert. 00:34:53.492 --> 00:34:54.616 He's so strong in his beliefs, 00:34:54.616 --> 00:34:55.505 I'm going to ask him: 00:34:55.538 --> 00:34:58.518 "Hey, is there..." 00:34:58.534 --> 00:34:59.984 "How sure are you?" 00:35:00.062 --> 00:35:00.852 "How?" 00:35:00.856 --> 00:35:02.046 And I'm going to see what his... 00:35:02.063 --> 00:35:04.801 I think his answers are going to be similar to what I just gave you. 00:35:04.801 --> 00:35:05.801 But I'm going to ask him. 00:35:05.826 --> 00:35:07.756 AM: You know what I think would be really cool 00:35:07.861 --> 00:35:09.291 is if you were to learn about Street Epistemology, 00:35:09.291 --> 00:35:10.660 watch a couple of my videos 00:35:10.660 --> 00:35:11.430 and then engage with your friend. 00:35:11.430 --> 00:35:12.351 IL: You got videos on that website? 00:35:12.351 --> 00:35:13.021 AM: Yeah. 00:35:13.021 --> 00:35:15.751 If you email me I'll send you the link to my channel 00:35:15.751 --> 00:35:16.651 IL: Okay. 00:35:16.711 --> 00:35:18.281 AM: And you can check them out. 00:35:18.391 --> 00:35:19.201 IL: All right. 00:35:19.201 --> 00:35:21.091 AM: Thank you so much, really, really enjoyed it. 00:35:21.141 --> 00:35:23.401 Lovely talk, thank you. Bye. 00:35:23.541 --> 00:35:24.391 Got me thinking now! 00:35:24.391 --> 00:35:28.141 Good thing I don't have to work today! 00:35:28.141 --> 00:35:30.261 [Laughter] 00:35:30.263 --> 00:35:31.943 [Applause] 00:35:31.966 --> 00:35:32.916 James! 00:35:38.271 --> 00:35:40.101 If you'd like to learn how to do that, 00:35:40.101 --> 00:35:42.351 we get into a lot more detail. 00:35:42.351 --> 00:35:45.111 We had a workshop yesterday. 00:35:45.111 --> 00:35:46.591 The organizers here were kind enough 00:35:46.591 --> 00:35:49.471 to schedule another one for tomorrow at noon in another room. 00:35:49.471 --> 00:35:51.071 In that room over there. 00:35:51.071 --> 00:35:52.811 You'll find it. 00:35:52.811 --> 00:35:53.811 So it's at Noon tomorrow. 00:35:53.811 --> 00:35:56.351 We are tabling as well. And just to wrap this up... 00:35:56.351 --> 00:35:57.781 I've got two minutes. 00:35:57.781 --> 00:35:59.071 Let me just wrap it up. 00:35:59.071 --> 00:36:03.431 I do think that's this method is changing the way atheists interact with believers. 00:36:03.431 --> 00:36:07.431 And it's harder for believers to say: 00:36:07.431 --> 00:36:10.731 "Don't talk to that person because she's asking hard questions." 00:36:10.731 --> 00:36:14.911 If you have the truth it should stand up to the scrutiny of some simple questions. 00:36:14.941 --> 00:36:18.181 And did you notice in that video how James was picking up that 00:36:18.181 --> 00:36:20.321 I was asked him "how" questions? 00:36:20.321 --> 00:36:21.851 "How did he figure out that that's true?" 00:36:22.111 --> 00:36:24.291 So, he was getting it there at the end. 00:36:24.291 --> 00:36:25.971 And I really do think that 00:36:25.971 --> 00:36:30.841 when the history books are written on the success of atheism in America 00:36:30.851 --> 00:36:33.801 that there will be chapters on Street Epistemology. 00:36:33.801 --> 00:36:35.901 So, my question to you is: 00:36:35.901 --> 00:36:40.491 "Are you willing and able to help us make that happen?" 00:36:40.491 --> 00:36:42.911 Thank you very much. 00:36:43.491 --> 00:36:47.101 [Applause]