0:00:00.650,0:00:02.810
[Applause]

0:00:04.490,0:00:05.779
Good morning.

0:00:05.779,0:00:07.259
Very, very excited to be here.

0:00:08.148,0:00:10.180
This, I think, is probably the largest crowd

0:00:10.180,0:00:11.929
that I've spoken to before.

0:00:11.999,0:00:14.568
And it's kind of interesting to see how ...

0:00:16.369,0:00:17.790
I probably wouldn't be here

0:00:17.790,0:00:19.619
if it wasn't for going out and learning

0:00:19.619,0:00:21.980
and practicing Street Epistemology.

0:00:22.220,0:00:24.389
And I think one of the reasons [br]why I'm up here is

0:00:24.409,0:00:27.850
because this approach has [br]really sparked an interest.

0:00:27.850,0:00:30.319
I'm just a regular guy [br]who decided to go out

0:00:30.319,0:00:33.050
and just have conversations with people.

0:00:33.050,0:00:35.010
And I think it's gotten a lot of attention

0:00:35.010,0:00:36.900
from folks and I'm very excited [br]to share it with you.

0:00:36.900,0:00:39.850
I think this actually could be

0:00:39.850,0:00:41.960
a turning point for atheism.

0:00:41.990,0:00:43.929
I forgot that I have slides. [br]There we go.

0:00:44.194,0:00:46.004
[Laughing]

0:00:46.926,0:00:47.926
Okay.

0:00:48.939,0:00:51.240
And I think Street Epistemology is going

0:00:51.240,0:00:55.070
to be critical to the success of atheism.

0:00:55.070,0:00:57.830
Which is why I'm very excited [br]to tell you about it.

0:00:57.830,0:01:00.269
We're gonna get really into

0:01:00.269,0:01:03.130
my journey and this method.

0:01:07.820,0:01:08.530
Okay.

0:01:09.670,0:01:11.510
I also want to talk a little bit about truth.

0:01:11.550,0:01:14.160
I want to kind of take a step back a little bit.

0:01:15.170,0:01:17.630
When we have conversations with people,

0:01:17.630,0:01:19.950
usually we're interested in

0:01:19.950,0:01:22.220
changing their mind or helping them to

0:01:22.220,0:01:24.220
believe true things and usually we want

0:01:24.220,0:01:25.970
to believe true things as well.

0:01:26.140,0:01:28.310
So, we engage in debate or dialogue

0:01:28.370,0:01:30.060
or conversation with them.

0:01:30.530,0:01:32.519
But we have to remind ourselves

0:01:32.609,0:01:35.510
that we ourselves are just [br]as capable of believing things

0:01:35.620,0:01:36.869
that are not true.

0:01:36.869,0:01:38.189
It's entirely possible

0:01:38.189,0:01:40.710
that a lot of the things [br]that I believe are not true.

0:01:43.160,0:01:47.590
So, what is the best way [br]to determine what is true?

0:01:47.590,0:01:51.840
What is the best way[br]to determine what is not true?

0:01:53.700,0:01:56.910
These are questions that have troubled [br]humanity from the beginning,

0:01:57.980,0:02:04.379
but as atheists I think we try [br]to accomplish this question about God

0:02:04.399,0:02:07.088
when we engage in debate [br]with people we tend to argue

0:02:07.088,0:02:09.898
with them or discuss the finer points

0:02:09.918,0:02:12.100
of the Bible, for example.

0:02:13.280,0:02:14.470
And it's oftentimes hard to get

0:02:14.470,0:02:16.230
into the mindset of a believer

0:02:16.230,0:02:19.430
unless you discuss [br]what that person believes.

0:02:21.060,0:02:22.700
We tend to focus a lot about that.

0:02:22.700,0:02:24.820
We tend to focus a lot about [br]what the person believes

0:02:24.840,0:02:27.470
as opposed to their [br]reasons or their method.

0:02:27.500,0:02:29.570
And I think it's really important

0:02:29.570,0:02:34.030
that as atheists we need [br]to find a better way

0:02:34.070,0:02:35.990
of figuring out what is true

0:02:36.040,0:02:38.900
and helping people figure out what is not true.

0:02:38.900,0:02:40.740
And again that's why [br]I'm so excited to be here

0:02:40.750,0:02:42.220
to tell you about this method

0:02:42.220,0:02:45.210
because I think this might be the thing

0:02:45.230,0:02:47.780
that helps atheists have better conversations

0:02:47.840,0:02:50.270
with the believers who are making these claims.

0:02:52.380,0:02:53.090
Okay.

0:02:53.230,0:02:54.435
I brought along--

0:02:54.445,0:02:55.682
Oh, did I kick out...

0:02:55.682,0:02:56.630
Bruce here?

0:02:59.060,0:03:00.600
Can you maximize that?

0:03:00.600,0:03:03.660
Okay, that may have been my fault--

0:03:04.320,0:03:06.580
Okay. So, I brought along [br]a couple of video clips here.

0:03:06.630,0:03:08.700
So, just still just a little warning.

0:03:08.790,0:03:10.290
The first video clip I want to show you

0:03:10.290,0:03:11.730
is about two minutes long.

0:03:11.770,0:03:13.380
I've got five video clips total,

0:03:13.390,0:03:16.380
but I want to kind of show [br]you how I used to go out

0:03:16.390,0:03:18.460
and have talks with believers.

0:03:19.240,0:03:21.680
This is a street preacher [br]in front of the Alamo.

0:03:21.900,0:03:24.150
And this was back in 2012.

0:03:24.150,0:03:26.210
This is about two minutes long.

0:03:27.120,0:03:30.140
He does talk about hell during this video.

0:03:30.140,0:03:33.060
So, fair warning if that troubles you.

0:03:33.130,0:03:35.420
You might want to be aware of that.

0:03:36.120,0:03:39.680
Oh, there are some people that are [br]really troubled by it and that's fine.

0:03:39.730,0:03:40.930
So, just fair warning.

0:03:40.940,0:03:43.650
And this is NOT an example [br]of Street Epistemology.

0:03:43.650,0:03:45.540
Don't watch this video, [br]walk out and think:

0:03:45.590,0:03:48.470
�Oh, that's what Street Epistemology is.�

0:03:48.490,0:03:50.510
And the other takeaway [br]I wanted to let you know

0:03:50.510,0:03:52.880
is that I'm not really [br]proud of this exchange.

0:03:53.125,0:03:54.125
[Laughing]

0:03:54.370,0:03:55.620
So, here we go.

0:03:55.690,0:03:56.359
Street preacher Phil.

0:03:56.359,0:03:57.028
IL: Jesus says,

0:03:57.028,0:03:57.842
[Playing video clip]

0:03:58.004,0:04:00.814
"My mother and my brotheren are these

0:04:00.827,0:04:02.447
which hear the word of God and do it."

0:04:02.655,0:04:04.145
AM: You said that already.

0:04:04.195,0:04:06.419
IL: You have the Word of God. [br]It's in the King James Bible.

0:04:06.419,0:04:08.410
It's not the Book of Mormon.

0:04:09.140,0:04:10.900
It's not the Kabbalah.

0:04:11.030,0:04:13.660
It's not the Babylonian Talmud.

0:04:13.680,0:04:16.029
There's just a word of God.

0:04:16.060,0:04:17.279
The King James Bible.

0:04:17.320,0:04:18.579
AM: There's just as much evidence

0:04:18.579,0:04:20.789
for those Gods as there's for your God.

0:04:20.789,0:04:21.639
IL: Not really.

0:04:21.659,0:04:22.669
AM: Yes, there is.

0:04:23.279,0:04:24.510
There's zero evidence.

0:04:24.530,0:04:25.990
IL: The Scripture says:

0:04:26.025,0:04:28.935
"Christ Jesus came [br]into the world to save sinners."

0:04:29.220,0:04:32.130
AM: That's what it says, but why [br]should we believe it today?

0:04:32.130,0:04:33.510
Why should we believe that?

0:04:34.100,0:04:36.350
IL: Now are you a Mormon [br]or a Baptist or a Catholic

0:04:36.350,0:04:39.400
or a Methodist, but are you saved?

0:04:39.500,0:04:41.580
The Bible says we must be saved.

0:04:42.490,0:04:45.870
Jesus saved me in 1987 in the month of December

0:04:45.960,0:04:48.970
and I'm not going back to what I was.

0:04:48.990,0:04:51.470
I'm no better than anybody else

0:04:51.470,0:04:54.060
but, my friends, as a street preacher

0:04:54.060,0:04:58.500
I gotta warn you: There is a hell [br]and you're going there.

0:04:58.500,0:05:00.430
AM: There's absolutely no there's

0:05:00.430,0:05:03.010
absolutely no evidence for a hell

0:05:03.010,0:05:06.440
or a heaven or a purgatory.

0:05:06.460,0:05:09.010
There's no evidence for that at all.

0:05:09.530,0:05:11.050
IL: You'll find out!

0:05:11.350,0:05:14.070
AM: How could you believe in something now

0:05:14.070,0:05:16.730
without even knowing that it's true?

0:05:16.730,0:05:19.480
AM: You point to the Bible again.

0:05:19.480,0:05:22.140
There's no evidence [br]that the Bible is true.

0:05:22.140,0:05:23.960
IL: You don't believe it, dude.

0:05:23.990,0:05:26.020
AM: Of course I don't. [br]I'm not convinced that it is true.

0:05:26.040,0:05:27.290
IL: Well, that's all right.

0:05:27.290,0:05:29.440
I'm not condemning you [br]because you don't, man!

0:05:29.440,0:05:30.240
AM: You're making the claim.

0:05:30.240,0:05:31.570
You need to prove to me that it is true.

0:05:31.570,0:05:33.160
IL: I don't have [br]to prove to you anything.

0:05:33.160,0:05:33.907
AM: Yes, you do!

0:05:33.907,0:05:36.773
You can't stand out here [br]and make claims as if it's a fact!

0:05:36.773,0:05:38.090
IL: Right here, man, that's my facts!

0:05:38.090,0:05:39.440
AM: And scare these people and young kids.

0:05:39.505,0:05:40.457
IL: Hey, listen dude ...

0:05:40.457,0:05:41.917
AM: What's wrong with you?

0:05:42.053,0:05:43.043
[Laughter]

0:05:43.176,0:05:44.846
[Applause]

0:05:51.270,0:05:54.810
I was kind of hoping that would [br]NOT draw an applause line�

0:05:55.029,0:05:56.519
[Laughter]

0:05:56.909,0:06:00.040
You know, at the time it [br]felt good to humiliate him.

0:06:00.070,0:06:00.880
It really did.

0:06:00.880,0:06:05.939
He was saying this nonsense [br]and just yelling things and ...

0:06:05.979,0:06:07.459
I wasn't aware that there is

0:06:07.459,0:06:10.059
a potentially better way [br]to interact with believers.

0:06:10.059,0:06:11.710
So, I was arguing with him.

0:06:11.730,0:06:14.010
I was just doing what just seemed natural

0:06:14.040,0:06:15.770
to point him to evidence,

0:06:15.770,0:06:17.729
to challenge what he was saying.

0:06:17.729,0:06:20.830
And I didn't realize it at the time

0:06:20.830,0:06:23.310
that it probably [br]didn't make me as an atheist

0:06:23.310,0:06:26.539
look very good standing out there.

0:06:26.539,0:06:28.739
As I watch this even I noticed [br]that he explains

0:06:28.739,0:06:31.110
why he believes that it was true.

0:06:31.110,0:06:33.300
He had a difficulty way back

0:06:33.300,0:06:34.870
when he gave an exact date.

0:06:34.870,0:06:36.500
There was some momentous occasion

0:06:36.500,0:06:38.280
and he didn't want [br]to go back to that time.

0:06:38.570,0:06:39.800
He didn't want to go back

0:06:39.800,0:06:41.409
to that time of where he was hurting.

0:06:41.449,0:06:44.160
So, there's the motivation behind his belief.

0:06:44.160,0:06:45.700
But I couldn't even see it

0:06:45.700,0:06:47.250
because I was so interested in arguing

0:06:47.250,0:06:50.389
with him and tearing him down.

0:06:50.389,0:06:54.270
However, that approach [br]I think does have its place.

0:06:54.270,0:06:56.920
If you look there's people [br]in the background watching.

0:06:56.920,0:06:58.140
There's a young couple there.

0:06:58.140,0:07:00.150
Behind the sign there's a little kid.

0:07:00.150,0:07:01.930
And you never know what that

0:07:01.930,0:07:03.350
takeaway may have been.

0:07:03.350,0:07:05.710
They may have been [br]shocked to hear somebody

0:07:05.710,0:07:07.980
standing up to a believer making a claim.

0:07:07.980,0:07:10.680
They may have gone home [br]to figure out is the Bible true.

0:07:10.680,0:07:12.330
You never know how that may

0:07:12.330,0:07:14.300
have landed with people observing.

0:07:15.350,0:07:17.289
But let's think about Phil.

0:07:18.399,0:07:21.440
Do you think that his mind [br]was changed that day?

0:07:21.440,0:07:23.290
It's probably unlikely.

0:07:23.330,0:07:27.859
More than likely he went home, [br]read his Bible, said a prayer

0:07:27.859,0:07:30.280
and was emboldened by that conversation.

0:07:30.280,0:07:34.209
He's probably thinking that it's [br]more true now than ever before

0:07:34.229,0:07:36.709
because his belief stood up

0:07:36.709,0:07:39.109
to the scrutiny of somebody yelling at him.

0:07:39.109,0:07:42.020
And just a little side note:

0:07:42.020,0:07:43.149
I follow the street preacher [br]community a little bit.

0:07:43.149,0:07:45.170
They love it when people argue with them.

0:07:45.170,0:07:46.820
They love getting crowds.

0:07:46.820,0:07:48.690
One of the worst things I think you could do

0:07:48.690,0:07:50.410
is argue with a street preacher

0:07:50.410,0:07:52.550
and draw a crowd because [br]they see that as a success.

0:07:52.550,0:07:55.299
So, please try to avoid [br]doing that if you can.

0:07:56.099,0:07:59.000
Now, I wasn't that aggressive [br]with my family members.

0:07:59.000,0:08:00.650
Okay, there was a brother-in-law.

0:08:00.650,0:08:02.385
Maybe I was a little bit like that.

0:08:02.385,0:08:03.505
[Laughter]

0:08:03.532,0:08:05.252
But I'd laugh at them

0:08:05.300,0:08:07.080
and I'd spend hours digging up facts

0:08:07.080,0:08:09.209
to show that they were mistaken

0:08:09.209,0:08:11.339
and I jeopardized those relationships

0:08:11.389,0:08:13.170
and I'm still trying to rebuild them.

0:08:13.170,0:08:15.850
Even though my style has [br]changed completely from that,

0:08:15.850,0:08:18.761
I'm still trying to repair [br]those relationships

0:08:18.761,0:08:19.781
and that's what kind

0:08:19.781,0:08:20.661
of one of the reasons [br]why I'm so eager

0:08:20.661,0:08:22.381
to be talking to you today

0:08:22.381,0:08:25.651
because I suspect that [br]many people have damaged

0:08:25.651,0:08:27.381
relationships with their loved ones

0:08:27.381,0:08:30.271
and friends and co-workers and so forth.

0:08:30.471,0:08:32.131
And I'm really excited to be able

0:08:32.131,0:08:34.010
to tell you about this approach.

0:08:35.321,0:08:36.440
So, let's talk a little bit

0:08:36.440,0:08:38.181
about Street Epistemology here.

0:08:40.361,0:08:41.361
Okay.

0:08:43.461,0:08:46.121
I think Street Epistemology might be

0:08:46.121,0:08:49.891
the best approach for having [br]one-on-one conversations

0:08:49.891,0:08:52.581
with people about their deeply held belief.

0:08:52.611,0:08:54.531
I understand that that's a bold claim,

0:08:54.531,0:08:56.681
but I've been doing this for five years

0:08:56.681,0:08:59.671
and I've had profound [br]one-on-one conversations,

0:08:59.671,0:09:01.011
sometimes two-on-one.

0:09:01.011,0:09:02.481
I'll talked to a Mormon couple.

0:09:02.481,0:09:05.971
And we've talked for 30 minutes [br]and it was one of the best conversations

0:09:05.971,0:09:07.661
that I think I've ever had.

0:09:07.661,0:09:10.481
So, before I could explain why I think

0:09:10.481,0:09:12.441
Street Epistemology is going to be

0:09:12.441,0:09:14.241
fundamental to the success of atheism

0:09:14.241,0:09:16.000
--that it's a turning point

0:09:16.000,0:09:17.981
--I need to explain to you [br]what Street Epistemology is.

0:09:17.981,0:09:20.881
So, the "street" part of it simply means:

0:09:20.881,0:09:22.131
"laymen engagements."

0:09:22.131,0:09:24.391
You're having a conversation [br]with somebody.

0:09:24.391,0:09:26.891
You're not necessarily [br]an expert in the Quran

0:09:26.891,0:09:29.031
or the Bible or what the claim is,

0:09:29.031,0:09:30.801
but you can engage with them.

0:09:30.801,0:09:32.931
It's actually one of the strengths [br]of this method, I think,

0:09:32.931,0:09:34.401
is that you don't really have

0:09:34.401,0:09:36.171
to be well-versed in the doctrine

0:09:36.171,0:09:37.600
to have these dialogues.

0:09:37.600,0:09:41.541
In fact, I think the less [br]you know about the claim

0:09:41.541,0:09:43.671
the better questions you'll form

0:09:43.671,0:09:45.761
when you have these conversations.

0:09:45.761,0:09:48.651
So, the "epistemology" part [br]is the study of knowledge.

0:09:48.651,0:09:52.531
It's how a person determined [br]that their belief is true.

0:09:52.531,0:09:54.900
When you hear the word "epistemology",

0:09:54.900,0:09:56.141
my recommendation would be:

0:09:56.141,0:09:57.710
Just think of the word "method".

0:09:57.710,0:10:00.261
Think of technique, think of approach.

0:10:00.261,0:10:01.891
Something like that.

0:10:01.891,0:10:04.941
I like to think of SE [br]as a tool that we can use

0:10:04.941,0:10:07.491
to challenge people respectfully.

0:10:09.571,0:10:11.291
And this isn't my creation.

0:10:11.291,0:10:12.751
I didn't come up with this.

0:10:12.751,0:10:14.151
This came from a book called

0:10:14.151,0:10:17.231
'A Manual for Creating Atheists' [br]by Dr. Peter Boghossian.

0:10:17.231,0:10:21.061
And it's based on the Socratic Method.

0:10:22.301,0:10:23.451
I read the book,

0:10:23.451,0:10:25.011
I started looking for examples online

0:10:25.011,0:10:27.471
and there were no examples at all.

0:10:28.611,0:10:29.931
And I would go out.

0:10:29.931,0:10:32.451
I was going out to try to[br]do Street Epistemology.

0:10:32.451,0:10:34.431
There was one good "why" question in there.

0:10:34.431,0:10:35.881
When I was yelling at that preacher:

0:10:35.881,0:10:37.601
"Why do you think that it's true?"

0:10:37.601,0:10:39.841
But there was no rapport building,

0:10:39.851,0:10:42.031
the tone was horrible,

0:10:42.031,0:10:45.811
and I certainly wasn't trying [br]to understand his methodology.

0:10:45.811,0:10:48.531
So, I've been going out

0:10:48.531,0:10:50.771
and trying to sort of perfect that

0:10:50.771,0:10:52.511
or hone this method [br]the last five years.

0:10:52.511,0:10:55.111
Here's the definition of it.

0:10:55.111,0:10:56.251
Couple points of here.

0:10:56.281,0:10:59.231
Street Epistemology [br]is a conversational tool.

0:10:59.231,0:11:00.231
It's not a debate.

0:11:01.031,0:11:04.571
It's a polite discussion and it is a tool.

0:11:04.571,0:11:05.971
It's something that you can use

0:11:05.971,0:11:09.661
if the situation is appropriate [br]depending on your goals.

0:11:09.661,0:11:12.261
And the conversations tend

0:11:12.261,0:11:14.151
to help people reflect or think

0:11:14.151,0:11:17.221
about their belief long [br]after the conversation ends.

0:11:17.541,0:11:19.511
When I have a dialogue with somebody

0:11:19.511,0:11:20.961
if they think about it then and there

0:11:20.961,0:11:22.191
but never think about it again,

0:11:22.191,0:11:24.391
then that's really [br]not much of a success to me.

0:11:24.901,0:11:26.801
I want these conversations

0:11:26.801,0:11:28.691
to resonate with folks.

0:11:29.021,0:11:32.311
And then we challenge [br]the method that they used.

0:11:32.311,0:11:34.011
Did they use a reliable method

0:11:34.011,0:11:35.561
to come to that conclusion?

0:11:37.261,0:11:37.971
All right.

0:11:38.801,0:11:40.371
So, one of the things I think

0:11:40.371,0:11:42.341
I need to kind of get [br]out of the way really quick

0:11:42.341,0:11:44.501
are some misconceptions of this,

0:11:44.501,0:11:46.961
because the word "street" is in there

0:11:47.501,0:11:49.671
and a lot of the examples are people

0:11:49.671,0:11:51.101
going out with video cameras

0:11:51.101,0:11:52.881
and uploading their conversations

0:11:52.881,0:11:54.571
and they're like; "Oh, you're just like

0:11:54.571,0:11:56.871
proselytizing for atheism there.

0:11:56.871,0:11:58.721
�This is like Ray Comfort or something."

0:11:59.421,0:12:02.101
There are no bananas [br]in Street Epistemology.

0:12:02.156,0:12:03.446
[Laughing]

0:12:03.458,0:12:04.728
[Applause]

0:12:06.221,0:12:09.151
Street Epistemology honestly [br]is about helping people.

0:12:09.281,0:12:10.861
It's helping people slow down

0:12:10.861,0:12:12.641
and think about the belief [br]that they formed.

0:12:12.641,0:12:14.311
And did they use a reliable method.

0:12:14.311,0:12:15.821
And it's not just about God claims.

0:12:15.821,0:12:17.201
It could be about anything.

0:12:17.201,0:12:18.721
Some of my best conversations have been

0:12:18.721,0:12:21.671
with atheists who are dogmatically [br]sure there are no Gods.

0:12:23.371,0:12:26.011
SE is really good about encouraging

0:12:26.011,0:12:28.291
people to be less dogmatic

0:12:28.291,0:12:30.581
about the beliefs that they formed.

0:12:32.341,0:12:34.191
And we try to uncover truth.

0:12:34.191,0:12:37.851
Now these conversations [br]can be initiated or organic.

0:12:38.351,0:12:40.901
My preference is [br]to have an organic chat

0:12:40.901,0:12:42.501
like when I get in an Uber,

0:12:42.501,0:12:44.241
I almost always have a chat

0:12:44.241,0:12:45.931
with the driver about something.

0:12:45.931,0:12:47.801
They make a claim and it's game on.

0:12:47.801,0:12:51.041
I can start asking questions [br]and we usually end it on good terms

0:12:51.041,0:12:53.081
and they usually give me a 5 star rating.

0:12:53.081,0:12:55.051
So, I think that's okay.

0:12:55.051,0:12:59.361
And I do the same for them.

0:12:59.361,0:13:00.721
So, I can understand how people [br]might make the connection

0:13:00.721,0:13:03.981
that this is like atheist [br]evangelizing or something

0:13:04.621,0:13:08.831
and I'm here giving a talk on Street [br]Epistemology to American Atheists.

0:13:08.831,0:13:11.171
So, I could understand how [br]you can make that connection.

0:13:11.171,0:13:14.511
But this is a tool that can be used [br]for all different types of claims.

0:13:14.511,0:13:17.851
It doesn't just have to be [br]about challenging people about God.

0:13:17.851,0:13:21.541
And this is so much about placing [br]a pebble in a person's shoe,

0:13:22.331,0:13:26.311
helping the person reflect [br]on their belief formation process,

0:13:26.311,0:13:28.761
so later, when the conversation�s over,

0:13:29.851,0:13:33.011
they can ask themselves: [br]"Do I need to maintain this belief?"

0:13:33.011,0:13:35.431
"Do I need to lower [br]my confidence in this belief?"

0:13:36.501,0:13:38.691
"Should I discard this belief outright?"

0:13:39.801,0:13:43.021
So, I wanted to put Street [br]Epistemology in graphical form.

0:13:43.021,0:13:47.301
Now, I have had a thousand [br]conversations at least.

0:13:47.301,0:13:49.361
I started looking at transcripts

0:13:49.361,0:13:51.771
and I started noticing a little pattern:

0:13:51.771,0:13:53.781
That we spend a little bit of time talking

0:13:53.781,0:13:55.241
about what they believe,

0:13:55.241,0:13:57.821
a little bit more time talking [br]about why they believe it,

0:13:58.861,0:14:00.531
but we spend a lot more time talking

0:14:00.551,0:14:02.661
about how they determined that [br]that belief is true.

0:14:02.881,0:14:07.571
And that I think is what makes [br]these conversations unique,

0:14:07.571,0:14:10.201
and Socratic, and Street Epistemology,

0:14:10.201,0:14:12.961
is that we're interested in their methodology.

0:14:12.961,0:14:15.361
Here's a different way of looking at it.

0:14:15.831,0:14:18.091
Same pyramid, but different words.

0:14:18.091,0:14:19.991
So, we're interested in what they believe.

0:14:20.011,0:14:21.681
We want to understand their reasons,

0:14:21.681,0:14:22.861
their main reason,

0:14:22.861,0:14:25.511
but it's the methodology [br]that they used.

0:14:25.511,0:14:27.751
So, when you think of Street [br]Epistemology, think "method."

0:14:27.761,0:14:29.571
We're very, very interested in the method.

0:14:29.571,0:14:31.501
Because if the method is faulty,

0:14:32.721,0:14:35.791
all the other things above it collapse.

0:14:36.721,0:14:37.601
Okay.

0:14:37.701,0:14:41.591
Now, that doesn't mean that [br]what they're believing is not true.

0:14:41.611,0:14:43.471
If they've based it on it[br][on an unreliable foundation].

0:14:43.471,0:14:45.651
I could base something on faith.

0:14:45.651,0:14:47.441
I can realize it's a faulty methodology

0:14:47.441,0:14:50.141
and what I'm believing [br]could actually still be true.

0:14:50.141,0:14:55.631
I get that, but ones confidence should [br]probably be adjusted accordingly

0:14:55.701,0:14:58.821
if they learned that [br]their method was unreliable.

0:14:59.571,0:15:00.521
Okay.

0:15:00.691,0:15:02.301
A couple of video examples here.

0:15:04.201,0:15:05.851
I want to talk to that actually.

0:15:05.851,0:15:09.961
So, I was also thinking [br]about these little [pyramid] sections here.

0:15:10.131,0:15:12.401
When we talk [br]about what a person believes,

0:15:12.401,0:15:15.331
that's usually what the preacher [br]tells you in Church.

0:15:15.331,0:15:17.301
�This is what the Bible says,"

0:15:17.301,0:15:19.211
�This is what we believe."

0:15:19.211,0:15:20.811
When you get to the apologists,

0:15:20.811,0:15:22.071
the people that defend the faith.

0:15:22.071,0:15:24.841
There was a guy [during the Q&A of the previous speaker][br]who said he was an apologist..

0:15:24.841,0:15:26.671
These are folks that defend the faith.

0:15:26.671,0:15:29.431
They come up with reasons [br]to justify the belief.

0:15:29.701,0:15:30.486
Okay.

0:15:30.486,0:15:31.911
So, there's this reason level,

0:15:31.911,0:15:36.101
but very few people [br]are looking at their foundation.

0:15:36.611,0:15:39.321
And that's why these questions [br]I think are powerful.

0:15:39.341,0:15:41.731
Because we're not concerned [br]with what you believe.

0:15:41.731,0:15:45.441
We're not really concerned with why, [br]but how did you determine that it's true.

0:15:45.441,0:15:47.501
And the apologists [br]are taken aback by this.

0:15:47.561,0:15:49.371
I'll get into this a little bit later.

0:15:49.371,0:15:51.091
They're a little worried about this.

0:15:51.091,0:15:52.191
Okay!

0:15:54.001,0:15:56.951
When I first started doing this [br]there were no video examples.

0:15:56.951,0:16:00.291
Today there are hundreds and some [br]of my favorites are not even mine.

0:16:00.401,0:16:02.781
It's really neat to see other people

0:16:02.781,0:16:05.671
going out, people in France and England.

0:16:06.941,0:16:08.031
Finland, for example.

0:16:08.031,0:16:11.791
They are going out and having talks [br]all across the United States.

0:16:12.601,0:16:14.721
And this is probably an understatement,

0:16:14.721,0:16:17.971
but Street Epistemology [br]did not come naturally to me.

0:16:19.111,0:16:22.671
I was arguing with[br]street preacher Phil there

0:16:23.001,0:16:25.771
for a good year and a half, I was.

0:16:25.931,0:16:27.481
But I was getting out of it.

0:16:27.481,0:16:32.171
It was evolving, but uploading these [br]videos, as horrible as they were,

0:16:32.321,0:16:34.511
I was getting feedback from folks saying;

0:16:34.511,0:16:36.721
"Hey, is that really Street Epistemology?"

0:16:36.721,0:16:39.921
And, "Shouldn't you be asking questions [br]rather than telling them what to think."

0:16:39.921,0:16:42.471
So, it was changing [br]the way that I was behaving,

0:16:42.471,0:16:45.491
it was changing my interactions, [br]and I think, for the better.

0:16:46.391,0:16:50.181
So, I realized that it's kind of difficult [br]to explain what Street Epistemology is.

0:16:50.181,0:16:51.991
I want to show you a couple of examples.

0:16:51.991,0:16:54.591
I have four little video clips, [br]and they're super short.

0:16:55.481,0:16:57.801
This next one this is a good one.

0:17:00.681,0:17:02.411
A couple of things here.

0:17:02.411,0:17:04.421
I'm going to make sure [br]not to laugh into the mic.

0:17:05.319,0:17:06.680
So, a couple things here.

0:17:07.760,0:17:11.189
Set aside your view on pornography [br]whether you think it's harmful or not.

0:17:11.189,0:17:12.901
That's not the point of this little clip.

0:17:13.069,0:17:15.799
The point is to demonstrate [br]the mechanics of Street Epistemology.

0:17:15.799,0:17:17.770
This also shows that you don't have

0:17:17.770,0:17:20.740
to use Street Epistemology [br]for just God claims.

0:17:20.740,0:17:22.201
It's excellent for it,

0:17:22.201,0:17:25.339
but in this case the topic [br]of pornography comes up here.

0:17:26.040,0:17:28.050
And the other takeaway, I think,

0:17:28.050,0:17:30.861
is try to set aside your biases.

0:17:30.861,0:17:33.561
When I'm having a dialogue with a person,

0:17:35.151,0:17:38.171
my stance on pornography [br]is not important at this point.

0:17:38.671,0:17:41.721
I want to understand why HE thinks [br]that it's harmful for example.

0:17:41.721,0:17:43.781
So, that's what [br]this conversation is about.

0:17:44.341,0:17:47.541
And pay close attention to the real reason

0:17:47.541,0:17:50.941
why he holds his view on pornography.

0:17:50.941,0:17:53.951
IL: The scientific evidence is

0:17:53.951,0:17:55.801
just like any kind of drug, you know,

0:17:55.801,0:17:57.571
like, the first time you watch it.

0:17:57.571,0:17:59.061
AM: Do you value scientific evidence?

0:17:59.061,0:18:00.341
IL: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

0:18:00.341,0:18:05.291
AM: Denzel, if we can provide you,

0:18:05.291,0:18:08.181
if I can provide you or [br]somebody that follows us closely..

0:18:08.361,0:18:11.241
If I discovered some scientific evidence [br]that showed that everything

0:18:11.251,0:18:14.551
that you've just [br]described very eloquently,

0:18:14.571,0:18:18.201
that it doesn't work in that way.

0:18:18.211,0:18:20.371
They've interviewed 10,000 porn stars

0:18:20.371,0:18:22.651
and a hundred thousand men and women.

0:18:22.651,0:18:29.071
And the overall result [br]suggests that it's a positive.

0:18:29.516,0:18:30.216
All right.

0:18:30.216,0:18:33.021
People feel better about themselves. [br]They�re living longer,

0:18:33.051,0:18:36.601
marriages are actually prospering,

0:18:36.601,0:18:39.091
crime is going down, like across the board.

0:18:39.091,0:18:40.301
And I don't even know [br]if that can even be measured,

0:18:40.301,0:18:48.751
but if it could, [br]if there was a reliable study that

0:18:48.751,0:18:52.361
showed something completely different [br]than what you're outlining just now,

0:18:52.391,0:18:55.181
would you change your mind on it?

0:18:56.496,0:18:57.766
IL: No, I wouldn't.

0:18:57.801,0:18:59.711
Because at the end of the day

0:18:59.721,0:19:04.081
I do value like, you know, [br]scientific evidence, historical evidence

0:19:04.081,0:19:06.461
and that kind of stuff.

0:19:06.461,0:19:08.291
But at the heart of it I'm a Christian.

0:19:08.291,0:19:10.171
So, I live by a finite set of principles.

0:19:11.851,0:19:12.661
Okay.

0:19:14.751,0:19:15.921
That was Denzel.

0:19:16.541,0:19:18.941
So, we could have [br]spent a lot of time wasted

0:19:18.941,0:19:20.831
just discussing pornography,

0:19:22.171,0:19:24.451
because he admits there [br]that it's not based on evidence.

0:19:24.451,0:19:26.051
Even if he was shown evidence

0:19:26.051,0:19:28.391
that it was not harmful, [br]he'd still hold the belief.

0:19:28.601,0:19:31.541
And that's what I love about [br]this method is that it's efficient.

0:19:31.571,0:19:34.841
You don't have to spend any time [br]arguing about things that don't matter.

0:19:35.511,0:19:39.441
If somebody raises contradictions [br]in the Bible as their reason, but they�d

0:19:39.441,0:19:42.401
still believe if every contradiction [br]was adequately explained,

0:19:42.401,0:19:45.321
don't discuss contradictions with them.

0:19:45.321,0:19:46.431
Move on to the real reasons.

0:19:46.431,0:19:47.431
Get to the core.

0:19:47.431,0:19:49.011
Get to the lowest level.

0:19:49.161,0:19:52.591
And that�s what I think is so great [br]about Street Epistemology.

0:19:52.591,0:19:53.881
If I were to meet with him again,

0:19:53.961,0:19:56.131
I wouldn't discuss porn at all.

0:19:56.151,0:19:58.311
I would talk about why [br]he thinks his God is real.

0:19:59.291,0:20:00.881
And what's really interesting is

0:20:00.881,0:20:03.261
that once that God belief goes,

0:20:03.261,0:20:04.051
so many other beliefs fall away.

0:20:04.051,0:20:06.191
Well, and I'm sure many people [br]here used to believe in God..

0:20:06.191,0:20:07.621
Once you lose that God belief,

0:20:07.621,0:20:09.581
so many other things fall by the wayside.

0:20:10.501,0:20:12.801
So, I'd love the efficiency of this approach.

0:20:13.651,0:20:16.161
And you may have noticed that

0:20:16.161,0:20:18.491
I didn't give him statistics

0:20:18.491,0:20:21.771
to show how beneficial pornography [br]was or anything like that.

0:20:21.771,0:20:23.891
It probably would've been way more

0:20:23.891,0:20:25.261
likely [this this talk] would have been

0:20:25.261,0:20:26.971
a waste of time with this individual.

0:20:26.971,0:20:28.811
In fact, there's this thing [br]called the backfire effect.

0:20:30.121,0:20:31.481
I don't know if I'm...

0:20:31.481,0:20:33.511
Show of hands, who's heard of this before?

0:20:34.231,0:20:35.971
Lots of hands, good. [br]Okay.

0:20:36.711,0:20:38.401
So, this is somewhat controversial.

0:20:38.431,0:20:40.661
This is a hypothesis that suggests

0:20:40.661,0:20:42.731
that if you provide people with evidence

0:20:42.731,0:20:43.990
that shows that they're mistaken,

0:20:43.990,0:20:46.850
especially on a belief that's [br]very tied to who they are,

0:20:46.850,0:20:49.571
they are less likely [br]to accept your evidence

0:20:49.571,0:20:51.081
and let it change their mind.

0:20:51.081,0:20:55.801
Now, the backfire effect part of that

0:20:55.801,0:20:58.701
is that some people even [br]believe what they believe even more.

0:20:59.071,0:21:01.911
There does seem to be some [br]new research that suggests that

0:21:01.911,0:21:04.901
people sometimes [br]might accept your evidence,

0:21:04.901,0:21:09.061
but their attitude doesn't [br]change about the belief.

0:21:09.261,0:21:11.901
So, I think we're still good [br]with the SE thing here.

0:21:12.081,0:21:14.541
And that's the beauty of this approach.

0:21:14.581,0:21:16.660
We're not debating what they believe.

0:21:16.700,0:21:18.841
We aren't dismissing their reasons.

0:21:18.841,0:21:20.411
You don't need to know anything

0:21:20.411,0:21:22.541
about their holy book [br]or anything like that.

0:21:22.541,0:21:26.111
You don't even have to provide evidence [br]to a person when you have these talks.

0:21:26.111,0:21:27.741
It kind of takes the pressure off.

0:21:27.741,0:21:30.731
"I'm a questioner, help me understand,

0:21:30.731,0:21:33.020
teach me why you think that this is true."

0:21:33.020,0:21:35.661
When you start looking at [br]these conversations that way,

0:21:36.831,0:21:38.491
I think it's really like I said,

0:21:38.491,0:21:39.801
it does take the pressure off.

0:21:39.801,0:21:41.931
It makes these conversations [br]so much easier.

0:21:46.261,0:21:48.631
And somebody once described this approach

0:21:48.631,0:21:50.981
as making people "comfortably uncomfortable."

0:21:50.981,0:21:52.581
You may have noticed the difference

0:21:52.581,0:21:54.330
between the conversation with Denzel

0:21:54.330,0:21:55.471
and the one with Phil.

0:21:55.491,0:21:57.171
How drastic a difference.

0:21:57.171,0:21:58.591
I was asking him questions.

0:21:58.591,0:22:01.471
I was listening to him, [br]and that type of thing.

0:22:01.521,0:22:02.280
Okay.

0:22:02.280,0:22:03.730
One more video clip.

0:22:03.730,0:22:06.341
I've got about 15-16 minutes, [br]it looks like, left.

0:22:06.761,0:22:09.531
This is Gordon. [br]This is two and a half minutes long.

0:22:09.531,0:22:12.021
He's elderly and I picked this one

0:22:12.021,0:22:14.561
because a lot of the early examples

0:22:14.561,0:22:16.161
that I uploaded was me interviewing

0:22:16.161,0:22:18.340
college-age students on campuses

0:22:18.340,0:22:19.861
and people would say[br]�you're just picking on young,

0:22:19.861,0:22:21.701
inexperienced people."

0:22:21.901,0:22:24.080
So, I said "I'm gonna go [br]talk to some older people."

0:22:24.080,0:22:25.411
So, for the last two years I've been

0:22:25.411,0:22:26.871
on this hiking trail, talking to people,

0:22:26.871,0:22:28.481
and this is Gordon.

0:22:30.451,0:22:32.201
So, there's really no age limit

0:22:32.201,0:22:33.780
but during this little talk,

0:22:33.780,0:22:35.051
which is two minutes long,

0:22:36.131,0:22:38.591
the video will stop twice [br]when he says something

0:22:38.631,0:22:41.501
that I think would be [br]raw meat to an atheist.

0:22:42.461,0:22:43.891
Where you'd hear it and you're like:

0:22:43.891,0:22:46.171
"There's no way he's [br]getting away with that."

0:22:46.266,0:22:47.266
[Laughing]

0:22:48.211,0:22:52.141
So, the video pauses at those moments

0:22:52.141,0:22:54.571
and a picture of my face will appear.

0:22:54.571,0:22:57.431
I was gonna have a picture[br]of raw meat show up.

0:22:57.431,0:23:00.521
It's just my face like: [br]"Mm-hmm� in a thinker�s pose.

0:23:00.521,0:23:02.191
When that happens you'll be alerted

0:23:02.191,0:23:04.641
to that and there's a really [br]big reveal at the end.

0:23:04.641,0:23:05.481
So, pay attention.

0:23:06.431,0:23:10.351
AM: Why Gordon do you believe [br]that a God even exists?

0:23:10.351,0:23:12.651
IL: Because I was brought up a Christian.

0:23:12.651,0:23:17.131
I've brought up to believe that.

0:23:17.811,0:23:18.691
I mean.

0:23:19.341,0:23:22.831
AM: How long have you had the belief?

0:23:22.831,0:23:25.431
IL: Since I was able to think.

0:23:25.471,0:23:27.071
[he laughs]

0:23:30.351,0:23:32.651
And it gets stronger as I grew older.

0:23:32.651,0:23:34.191
AM: Interesting.

0:23:34.236,0:23:35.406
IL: Yeah.

0:23:40.141,0:23:45.531
AM: Yesterday I ran into a family that [br]had a little four month-old baby

0:23:45.531,0:23:46.981
IL: Uh-huh.

0:23:46.991,0:23:49.350
AM: and they identified themselves as Christians,

0:23:49.350,0:23:52.151
but they could have easily been Hindus or

0:23:52.151,0:23:54.341
Muslims or Pagans ...

0:23:54.416,0:23:55.568
IL: Doesn't matter.

0:23:55.568,0:23:57.768
Well, not Pagans. [br]Pagans are non-believers.

0:23:57.843,0:24:01.503
[Laughing]

0:24:01.579,0:24:04.129
But, it doesn't matter what [br]what religion you come from

0:24:04.151,0:24:06.590
or what your ethnicity is

0:24:06.610,0:24:10.720
as long as you believe in a Supreme Being.

0:24:10.830,0:24:12.651
You can call him Allah or God or

0:24:12.651,0:24:15.581
Neihu or whatever as long as you believe

0:24:15.581,0:24:19.321
in the same being, it doesn't matter.

0:24:19.971,0:24:22.430
AM: Let's say that little girl is raised

0:24:22.430,0:24:24.311
to believe that there's no God.

0:24:24.756,0:24:26.576
IL: Well, I feel sorry for her.

0:24:26.636,0:24:29.686
[Laughing]

0:24:29.696,0:24:32.580
AM: Would she be just [br]as correct in her belief as you

0:24:32.580,0:24:34.220
being raised with your belief?

0:24:36.040,0:24:38.401
IL: Just as correct?

0:24:39.651,0:24:41.191
No, I mean ...

0:24:41.191,0:24:42.211
AM: Why not?

0:24:42.211,0:24:47.631
IL: Because just we're all [br]created for us by God

0:24:47.661,0:24:51.460
and we look for eternal life

0:24:51.460,0:24:54.781
and that comes through salvation.

0:24:54.781,0:24:58.001
And if you don't believe in God [br]then you can't have salvation.

0:24:58.201,0:25:02.000
AM: Are you saying that if a child

0:25:02.050,0:25:04.661
is raised to believe in a God,

0:25:04.661,0:25:07.830
they're justified in having the belief

0:25:07.830,0:25:10.580
but if a child is raised [br]to believe in no gods, they're not?

0:25:10.580,0:25:13.291
IL: A young child has no concept

0:25:13.291,0:25:15.481
of what's right or wrong at that point.

0:25:15.481,0:25:17.231
They believe only what they're told

0:25:17.231,0:25:19.551
And so what they are taught

0:25:19.551,0:25:21.901
in the first five years of life

0:25:21.901,0:25:24.641
will probably be with them [br]for the rest of their life.

0:25:24.641,0:25:26.311
Which is unfortunate.

0:25:26.601,0:25:29.911
[Laughing]

0:25:34.081,0:25:34.900
Okay.

0:25:36.540,0:25:39.640
So, because I avoided the raw meat

0:25:39.651,0:25:42.200
of those two exchanges there

0:25:42.200,0:25:43.155
when he said that.

0:25:43.155,0:25:44.741
He said pagans are non-believers.

0:25:44.741,0:25:45.891
Well, that's not true.

0:25:45.891,0:25:47.370
I could have interrupted him

0:25:47.370,0:25:48.651
and corrected him [br]and we could have gone on

0:25:48.651,0:25:50.021
this different tangent, but I didn't.

0:25:50.021,0:25:52.061
I just let it go. [br]It's not important, really.

0:25:52.061,0:25:54.151
And then he said; [br]"I'd feel sorry for the little girl

0:25:54.151,0:25:56.161
who was raised atheist."

0:25:56.161,0:25:59.631
That pisses me off.

0:25:59.631,0:26:01.641
I have two kids [br]and they're the greatest kids.

0:26:01.641,0:26:04.170
But that really has nothing to do with it.

0:26:04.170,0:26:08.240
But if I went ... [br]If I chased those distractions,

0:26:08.240,0:26:11.681
it would have been really [br]unfortunate if I had done that

0:26:11.681,0:26:13.070
because we wouldn't have had

0:26:13.070,0:26:16.511
that wonderful discovery [br]at the end, really quickly.

0:26:19.271,0:26:23.061
It's easy to be angry [br]when you hear stuff like that.

0:26:23.061,0:26:26.240
Okay. [br]Because let's face it:

0:26:26.240,0:26:29.691
We were told lies by the people [br]that we love and it hurts.

0:26:31.041,0:26:32.171
We have a right to be angry.

0:26:32.171,0:26:35.530
We really do and yet most of us [br]found our way out.

0:26:35.530,0:26:36.771
And I'm hopeful that

0:26:36.771,0:26:39.301
we can channel that anger [br]into something positive.

0:26:39.691,0:26:41.211
Try to let those things slide

0:26:41.211,0:26:42.801
for the benefit of the conversation,

0:26:42.831,0:26:44.691
for the benefit of the discovery.

0:26:44.761,0:26:47.511
Like I did there with our friend Gordon.

0:26:48.201,0:26:49.571
Alright. [br]I've got one more clip

0:26:49.641,0:26:51.731
Gosh, I just have 10 minutes left.

0:26:51.731,0:26:54.100
I think I'm going to skip this clip

0:26:54.200,0:26:56.091
That kills me to do that.

0:26:56.916,0:26:58.896
[Protest from the public]

0:26:59.601,0:27:01.761
It's not in my control. [br]I'm sorry.

0:27:03.701,0:27:06.791
[Laughter]

0:27:08.660,0:27:10.910
This clip that's this minute...

0:27:10.910,0:27:12.610
I'm trying to decide where to go here.

0:27:12.630,0:27:13.840
Alright, let's stop talking about it.

0:27:13.870,0:27:15.000
I'm gonna show you one more clip.

0:27:15.030,0:27:16.660
I talked about the angry atheist.

0:27:16.680,0:27:18.545
This is Joanna, and we're on a trail.

0:27:18.545,0:27:21.620
She said she was ninety percent [br]confident that God it was real.

0:27:21.620,0:27:24.300
She pumps it up to a hundred [br]after ten minutes into the talk.

0:27:24.300,0:27:26.480
This is about twenty minutes into the talk.

0:27:26.480,0:27:28.470
It's a five-minute chat

0:27:28.470,0:27:30.110
and I want you to notice

0:27:30.110,0:27:33.190
her thinker's pose.[br]And notice the pacing of this,

0:27:33.190,0:27:34.950
notice the calm nature of it,

0:27:34.950,0:27:37.550
notice the respect and the attention,

0:27:37.550,0:27:39.770
and the intention of [br]wanting to fully understand

0:27:39.770,0:27:41.170
what she's saying.

0:27:44.780,0:27:46.910
AM: If this belief that's in your head

0:27:46.920,0:27:49.550
and this hundred percent certainty

0:27:49.550,0:27:53.770
that the God exists

0:27:53.790,0:27:58.010
is based on a foundation of you being [br]raised and taught something,

0:27:59.020,0:28:02.550
how can you be certain [br]that it's actually true?

0:28:04.365,0:28:07.075
IL: That's kind of like we [br]we�re talking about earlier.

0:28:07.097,0:28:10.797
It's very faith-based.

0:28:10.950,0:28:14.170
AM: We're gonna to definitely have [br]to unpack this faith based thing.

0:28:14.170,0:28:16.050
IL: It's pretty broad.

0:28:16.090,0:28:17.070
Um ...

0:28:17.930,0:28:19.451
AM: On what is a faith based...

0:28:19.471,0:28:22.471
IL: "Faith based" is that you can't see Him.

0:28:22.496,0:28:24.128
You can't always hear Him.

0:28:24.128,0:28:26.851
You just have to believe that

0:28:26.851,0:28:28.760
He'll pull through for your favor.

0:28:28.760,0:28:30.450
And even if it isn't in your favor,

0:28:30.450,0:28:32.330
that can work into your favor somehow.

0:28:32.330,0:28:34.730
'Cause a lot of negative [br]things happen in life,

0:28:34.730,0:28:39.650
but really depends [br]on which route you take.

0:28:40.145,0:28:40.945
But...

0:28:41.695,0:28:42.501
Gosh...

0:28:42.511,0:28:43.641
How...

0:28:43.651,0:28:47.060
That's the only way to put it too.

0:28:47.060,0:28:49.940
I just think it's something [br]that's inside of you as well.

0:28:49.960,0:28:52.461
Which could go along other religions, too.

0:28:52.501,0:28:54.001
'Cause, like, being out in nature

0:28:54.001,0:28:55.341
gives you a lot of peace.

0:28:55.341,0:28:57.711
When I pray I have a lot of peace.

0:28:57.711,0:29:00.001
I feel like I have more direction.

0:29:00.001,0:29:02.211
I pause and reflect more.

0:29:04.531,0:29:05.380
You know.

0:29:05.380,0:29:08.730
You can never be...

0:29:08.730,0:29:09.565
Ahh...

0:29:09.590,0:29:12.490
kind of like you're thinking [br]about that 90%, but...

0:29:14.050,0:29:15.781
I don't know how else to put it!

0:29:15.781,0:29:16.501
That's hard.

0:29:16.501,0:29:20.811
I haven't actually talked that out [br]with somebody before fully.

0:29:20.830,0:29:22.270
I don't really have words.

0:29:22.280,0:29:23.500
AM: That's fine.

0:29:23.500,0:29:25.976
Now can I ask you one more question[br]and then we'll wrap it up?

0:29:25.976,0:29:27.416
IL: Yeah.

0:29:35.061,0:29:38.251
AM: I suppose my question is:

0:29:38.251,0:29:45.741
if you couldn't use faith [br]to conclude that your God exists,

0:29:45.771,0:29:48.671
to know with 100% level of confidence...

0:29:48.671,0:29:53.681
If a faith-based foundation [br]wasn't an option for you,

0:29:53.711,0:29:54.671
IL: Mmm-hmm.

0:29:55.591,0:30:00.611
where do you think you would be in terms [br]of your confidence that God existed.

0:30:02.031,0:30:04.621
IL: It wouldn't be very high.

0:30:04.621,0:30:07.261
Because like I said before, there's not really ...

0:30:07.261,0:30:10.031
He's not literally standing [br]in front of us, right now?

0:30:10.051,0:30:12.071
IF that makes sense. I mean ...

0:30:13.611,0:30:15.691
AM: So, you can't see Him, [br]you can't hear ...

0:30:16.501,0:30:19.561
IL: A lot of people kind of need [br]concrete things in front of them

0:30:19.561,0:30:22.681
in order to kind of have that 100% ... faith.

0:30:22.681,0:30:24.066
Not faith-based, sorry.

0:30:24.066,0:30:27.266
100% trust in something.

0:30:27.348,0:30:31.368
Especially something that you [br]base your whole life off of.

0:30:31.368,0:30:35.014
I feel like if you don't have ...

0:30:35.024,0:30:38.641
Faith is one of those things where you [br]don't always feel like you're in control.

0:30:38.641,0:30:43.421
And I feel like as humans [br]we always like to have control.

0:30:43.431,0:30:45.141
It's another thing where I kind of stray

0:30:45.151,0:30:47.001
everyone kind of strays off of their path,

0:30:47.001,0:30:48.791
but I always find my way back.

0:30:48.811,0:30:49.581
AM: Okay.

0:30:51.491,0:30:53.811
May I ask you one more question.

0:30:53.811,0:30:56.411
And I promise this will be [br]the last one unless you say:

0:30:56.441,0:30:58.941
"Please, keep asking me questions."[br]But this is my last.

0:31:03.481,0:31:04.971
In these conversations

0:31:04.971,0:31:06.641
that I've had with lots of people

0:31:06.891,0:31:09.581
regardless of what God they believe in

0:31:09.581,0:31:11.951
and regardless of how they were raised.

0:31:11.951,0:31:15.081
They will often say that [br]"I believe it because of faith."

0:31:15.081,0:31:17.401
I can't see the God. [br]I can't hear the God.

0:31:17.401,0:31:20.441
But I believe it and they are believing

0:31:20.441,0:31:24.171
in completely different [br]deities, wildly different.

0:31:24.226,0:31:25.256
IL: Yeah.

0:31:25.256,0:31:29.901
So, my last question to you is:

0:31:29.901,0:31:31.610
[Sounds]

0:31:33.341,0:31:37.411
Is faith a reliable way to come [br]to know something to be true,

0:31:37.411,0:31:42.911
if anyone can use it for anything?

0:31:43.671,0:31:45.661
IL: That's a good question.

0:31:46.366,0:31:47.486
Oh. Wow!

0:31:51.018,0:31:52.838
You got me there.

0:31:54.921,0:31:57.290
It doesn't change what I believe.

0:31:57.305,0:31:58.485
But ...

0:32:00.502,0:32:02.322
You actually have a good point.

0:32:02.346,0:32:05.086
A lot of religions are a lot of faith ...

0:32:05.113,0:32:06.753
Um, is faith-based.

0:32:10.876,0:32:11.748
AM: I beg your pardon.

0:32:11.748,0:32:15.458
Is there another way you can ask that?

0:32:16.190,0:32:19.121
IL: Or is it a question or is it kind [br]of like an open-ended ...

0:32:19.161,0:32:21.781
AM: We can certainly end it on that point [br]and if you want to...

0:32:21.781,0:32:24.771
you seem like a thinker and [br]if you want to think about it

0:32:24.841,0:32:26.120
And we can ...

0:32:26.170,0:32:27.731
And if I never hear from you again

0:32:27.731,0:32:28.930
that's fine but if you want to ping me,

0:32:28.930,0:32:29.991
I can give you my email address.

0:32:30.021,0:32:31.391
IL: Yeah.

0:32:31.611,0:32:34.191
AM: I can rephrase it, [br]to leave it with you one more time.

0:32:34.191,0:32:35.761
You can think about it [br]I'll give you the card.

0:32:35.811,0:32:37.370
So, I suppose the final question

0:32:37.370,0:32:39.541
that you can either answer now

0:32:39.541,0:32:44.381
or just think about it would be:

0:32:45.121,0:32:52.291
If anyone can use faith [br]to conclude that anything is true,

0:32:52.311,0:32:55.100
why on earth would they [br]want to use that method?

0:32:56.350,0:32:57.350
IL: Mmm-hmm.

0:32:58.400,0:33:00.061
That's a good one.

0:33:00.091,0:33:01.231
I'm going to ponder.

0:33:01.241,0:33:03.171
I'm definitely a thinker.

0:33:10.711,0:33:13.450
I have five minutes here.

0:33:13.450,0:33:15.990
So, just really quick.

0:33:15.990,0:33:17.541
Did you notice the pacing of it?

0:33:17.541,0:33:19.910
Did you notice that it was calm? [br]I was asking questions.

0:33:19.910,0:33:22.311
I wasn't telling her a damn thing.

0:33:22.311,0:33:23.821
I was just giving her [br]some of my observations.

0:33:23.821,0:33:25.961
I was telling a story like [br]the previous speaker had mentioned.

0:33:26.000,0:33:28.481
The importance of storytelling.

0:33:28.481,0:33:32.461
Now this approach is freaking [br]out professional believers.

0:33:32.461,0:33:34.521
They're worried about it [br]because I think they would

0:33:34.521,0:33:38.760
rather see us argue like I did there [br]with street preacher Phil.

0:33:40.750,0:33:42.701
It's a lot easier to demonize an atheist

0:33:42.701,0:33:45.780
when I'm behaving like that as opposed to

0:33:45.780,0:33:47.741
when I'm having a cordial conversation

0:33:47.741,0:33:51.721
with somebody like Joanna there.

0:33:51.721,0:33:53.231
Okay. I've got one more video [br]and we got like three minutes left.

0:33:53.231,0:33:54.240
So, let�s wrap this up.

0:33:54.240,0:33:55.961
This one is one and a half minutes long

0:33:55.961,0:33:57.920
and I'm showing you this video

0:33:57.920,0:33:59.951
because this one is so cool.

0:33:59.951,0:34:03.881
It's this couple, we start talking [br]how this fellow is getting pressure from one...

0:34:03.881,0:34:06.721
He's a Christian. [br]He's hundred percent sure yet he's getting

0:34:06.721,0:34:08.299
pressure from one of his friends

0:34:08.299,0:34:09.351
who's a Jehovah's Witness.

0:34:09.351,0:34:12.761
And we had this wonderful conversation.

0:34:12.761,0:34:14.351
His wife came up and listened mostly.

0:34:14.351,0:34:18.779
And he's extolling the virtues [br]of the conversation that he just had

0:34:18.779,0:34:20.329
where I was using this approach.

0:34:20.329,0:34:21.509
IL: But you got me thinking though, Anthony!

0:34:21.509,0:34:22.768
I might have to email you.

0:34:22.849,0:34:23.649
James ...

0:34:23.918,0:34:25.569
AM: Nothing will make me happier.

0:34:25.589,0:34:27.518
[continues giving his email]

0:34:28.724,0:34:31.074
IL: Don't put it in the junk folder!

0:34:31.109,0:34:32.331
AM: I'll be watching for it.

0:34:32.331,0:34:33.311
AM: Yeah, hit me up.

0:34:33.331,0:34:34.821
I'd really like to find out if there's

0:34:34.821,0:34:37.520
a better way to conclude[br]that this God exists

0:34:37.520,0:34:39.371
other than the reasons [br]that you gave me.

0:34:39.371,0:34:42.051
Do you find that the reasons

0:34:42.051,0:34:43.260
that you've explained to me,

0:34:43.260,0:34:44.228
very great, very well...

0:34:44.253,0:34:45.958
IL: That's a good question for my friend...

0:34:45.958,0:34:47.688
That's a good question for him.

0:34:47.704,0:34:48.400
AM: Why?

0:34:48.400,0:34:50.960
IL: 'Cause he's so strong in his beliefs!

0:34:50.966,0:34:51.735
AM: Mmmm.

0:34:51.735,0:34:52.572
IL: You know?

0:34:52.572,0:34:53.492
My buddy, Gilbert.

0:34:53.492,0:34:54.616
He's so strong in his beliefs,

0:34:54.616,0:34:55.505
I'm going to ask him:

0:34:55.538,0:34:58.518
"Hey, is there..."

0:34:58.534,0:34:59.984
"How sure are you?"

0:35:00.062,0:35:00.852
"How?"

0:35:00.856,0:35:02.046
And I'm going to see what his...

0:35:02.063,0:35:04.801
I think his answers are going to be [br]similar to what I just gave you.

0:35:04.801,0:35:05.801
But I'm going to ask him.

0:35:05.826,0:35:07.756
AM: You know what I think would be really cool

0:35:07.861,0:35:09.291
is if you were to learn [br]about Street Epistemology,

0:35:09.291,0:35:10.660
watch a couple of my videos

0:35:10.660,0:35:11.430
and then engage with your friend.

0:35:11.430,0:35:12.351
IL: You got videos on that website?

0:35:12.351,0:35:13.021
AM: Yeah.

0:35:13.021,0:35:15.751
If you email me [br]I'll send you the link to my channel

0:35:15.751,0:35:16.651
IL: Okay.

0:35:16.711,0:35:18.281
AM: And you can check them out.

0:35:18.391,0:35:19.201
IL: All right.

0:35:19.201,0:35:21.091
AM: Thank you so much, [br]really, really enjoyed it.

0:35:21.141,0:35:23.401
Lovely talk, thank you. Bye.

0:35:23.541,0:35:24.391
Got me thinking now!

0:35:24.391,0:35:28.141
Good thing I don't have to work today!

0:35:28.141,0:35:30.261
[Laughter]

0:35:30.263,0:35:31.943
[Applause]

0:35:31.966,0:35:32.916
James!

0:35:38.271,0:35:40.101
If you'd like to learn how to do that,

0:35:40.101,0:35:42.351
we get into a lot more detail.

0:35:42.351,0:35:45.111
We had a workshop yesterday.

0:35:45.111,0:35:46.591
The organizers here were kind enough

0:35:46.591,0:35:49.471
to schedule another one for[br]tomorrow at noon in another room.

0:35:49.471,0:35:51.071
In that room over there.

0:35:51.071,0:35:52.811
You'll find it.

0:35:52.811,0:35:53.811
So it's at Noon tomorrow.

0:35:53.811,0:35:56.351
We are tabling as well. [br]And just to wrap this up...

0:35:56.351,0:35:57.781
I've got two minutes.

0:35:57.781,0:35:59.071
Let me just wrap it up.

0:35:59.071,0:36:03.431
I do think that's this method is changing [br]the way atheists interact with believers.

0:36:03.431,0:36:07.431
And it's harder for believers to say:

0:36:07.431,0:36:10.731
"Don't talk to that person because [br]she's asking hard questions."

0:36:10.731,0:36:14.911
If you have the truth it should stand up [br]to the scrutiny of some simple questions.

0:36:14.941,0:36:18.181
And did you notice in that video [br]how James was picking up that

0:36:18.181,0:36:20.321
I was asked him "how" questions?

0:36:20.321,0:36:21.851
"How did he figure out that that's true?"

0:36:22.111,0:36:24.291
So, he was getting it there at the end.

0:36:24.291,0:36:25.971
And I really do think that

0:36:25.971,0:36:30.841
when the history books are written [br]on the success of atheism in America

0:36:30.851,0:36:33.801
that there will be chapters [br]on Street Epistemology.

0:36:33.801,0:36:35.901
So, my question to you is:

0:36:35.901,0:36:40.491
"Are you willing and able [br]to help us make that happen?"

0:36:40.491,0:36:42.911
Thank you very much.

0:36:43.491,0:36:47.101
[Applause]