0:00:07.370,0:00:11.990 [Trevor Paglen: Power & Perspective] 0:00:15.920,0:00:19.880 [Griffin Editions, Photography Printing Studio] 0:00:19.880,0:00:21.600 --[PAGLEN] We can just put them over here,[br]if you... 0:00:21.600,0:00:22.500 --[MAN] Okay. 0:00:30.040,0:00:33.000 [PAGLEN] Yeah, there's a little bit of drama[br]around this picture. 0:00:33.010,0:00:34.160 We called up the NSA and said, 0:00:34.160,0:00:37.390 "We're going to fly a helicopter over your[br]headquarters—take pictures." 0:00:37.390,0:00:39.309 Which is perfectly legal. 0:00:39.309,0:00:41.629 They said, "We don't want you to do that." 0:00:41.629,0:00:43.390 We said, "Well, we're not asking permission," 0:00:43.390,0:00:46.390 "we're just telling you that we're doing this—and[br]don't shoot us!" 0:00:46.390,0:00:49.899 And the NSA sent a bunch of guys—I think[br]seven guys— 0:00:49.899,0:00:54.019 and posted them up at all different places[br]in the airport to watch this flight. 0:00:54.019,0:00:56.440 And I think they were making phone calls to[br]the headquarters, 0:00:56.440,0:00:59.329 having certain lights turned on and off. 0:00:59.329,0:01:02.010 The woman who owns the helicopter had baked[br]a bunch of brownies, 0:01:02.010,0:01:03.859 and was actually driving around the little[br]airport, 0:01:03.859,0:01:07.179 like, playing "spot the NSA guys" and, like,[br]feeding them brownies. 0:01:11.380,0:01:15.860 One of the reasons why you typically actually[br]don't see photographs of the NSA headquarters 0:01:15.870,0:01:19.070 is because it's surrounded by trees. 0:01:19.640,0:01:21.360 [NSA Headquarters, public domain image] 0:01:21.360,0:01:25.480 There's only a couple of photographs, and[br]they're the couple that everybody uses. 0:01:27.300,0:01:28.300 --[MAN] I'm going to load this up. 0:01:28.300,0:01:28.980 --[PAGLEN] Okay. 0:01:30.720,0:01:37.240 [PAGLEN] I generally don't like these so-called[br]"bird's eye" or "God's eye" perspectives. 0:01:37.240,0:01:40.960 That perspective implies a, kind of, mastery[br]over something. 0:01:40.970,0:01:43.200 It implies that perhaps you can see this, 0:01:43.200,0:01:45.420 and that it's transparent and we can understand it, 0:01:45.420,0:01:49.500 and this is a, kind of, insignificant thing[br]which is on the ground below us. 0:01:49.500,0:01:51.380 [Mike Vorrasi, Senior Retoucher] 0:01:51.380,0:01:52.790 --[PAGLEN] Whoa! [LAUGHS] 0:01:52.790,0:01:55.100 --[VORRASI] So this is just me trying to do[br]some... 0:01:55.100,0:01:56.910 --[PAGLEN] What have you got going on there!? 0:01:56.910,0:01:58.990 --[VORRASI] So the red channel was really[br]bright, 0:01:58.990,0:02:02.460 --so I was just, sort of, just blending in[br]the blue channel a little bit. 0:02:02.460,0:02:03.060 --And the same with the blue. 0:02:03.060,0:02:06.450 --The blue was a little heavy, so I just sort[br]of was blending back in to see, 0:02:06.450,0:02:07.980 --then I was going to put that on a luminous. 0:02:07.980,0:02:09.600 --[PAGLEN] The next one is your profile? 0:02:09.600,0:02:10.120 --[VORRASI] Yeah, exactly. 0:02:10.120,0:02:10.880 --[PAGLEN] That's either your profile... 0:02:10.880,0:02:12.620 --[VORRASI] That's in our profile right now. 0:02:12.629,0:02:14.930 [PAGLEN] It does look like we're at a shopping[br]mall. 0:02:14.930,0:02:18.909 It seems like a very, kind of, normal kind[br]of looking place. 0:02:18.909,0:02:21.569 And I struggle with that, because on one hand, 0:02:21.569,0:02:26.560 the extent to which the NSA's tendrils are[br]in our everyday lives, 0:02:26.560,0:02:29.680 perhaps this perspective is at odds with that. 0:02:30.450,0:02:34.569 But what I like about the perspective in this[br]particular instance 0:02:34.569,0:02:41.239 is that it puts you in the situation where[br]we can look at a building like this and, 0:02:41.239,0:02:45.109 to some extent, perhaps imagine that in fact[br]these are civic institutions, 0:02:45.109,0:02:48.299 and that you, as a member of the public, 0:02:48.299,0:02:52.900 should be able to exert the same kind of power[br]over this institution 0:02:52.900,0:02:58.560 that we can symbolically do by looking at[br]a photograph shot from this perspective. 0:03:04.080,0:03:06.620 --[PAGLEN] Cool, so we'll save some variations[br]on this one for next time, 0:03:06.620,0:03:08.980 --and let's see, like, back on that Reaper[br]image... 0:03:08.980,0:03:10.260 --[VORRASI] Oh, yeah. 0:03:17.040,0:03:18.380 --[MAN] You want that up there? 0:03:19.320,0:03:21.120 [PAGLEN] This is about as big as it gets for[br]me. 0:03:21.129,0:03:24.420 There was only a couple of things that I've[br]done at this size. 0:03:24.420,0:03:30.640 So, I was just shooting, like, directly into[br]the sun with the four-by-five camera. 0:03:31.200,0:03:36.020 The idea for it actually came from a Turner[br]painting called "Angel in the Sun". 0:03:38.240,0:03:42.680 These drones are called Reapers, so this is[br]"The Reaper in the Sun". 0:03:49.080,0:03:52.360 --[PAGLEN] Cool. So this is the range of stuff[br]that we're looking at... 0:03:52.370,0:03:56.230 [PAGLEN] One of the advantages of using, like,[br]traditional kind of film 0:03:56.230,0:03:58.930 in a situation like that is that you can do[br]weird stuff 0:03:58.930,0:04:04.099 like over-expose a photograph, shooting directly[br]into the sun, 0:04:04.099,0:04:05.200 and still have some wiggle room-- 0:04:05.200,0:04:06.599 have something to play with. 0:04:09.100,0:04:11.379 --[PAGLEN] Like, I wonder if there's, like,[br]a magenta ring around here, 0:04:11.379,0:04:13.200 --or if it's just like my eyes doing stuff. 0:04:13.200,0:04:14.680 --You know what I'm talking about? 0:04:14.680,0:04:15.439 --[VORRASI] Yeah. 0:04:17.100,0:04:17.920 --[PAGLEN] Yeah, it's super weird! 0:04:17.930,0:04:20.720 [PAGLEN] We've done tons of stuff where we[br]put two prints right next to each other, 0:04:20.720,0:04:23.389 and then we're like, "Oh, the one on the right.[br]Oh, it's cooler or whatever." 0:04:23.389,0:04:24.650 And then we'll shift them back over, and then[br]we're like, 0:04:24.650,0:04:27.139 "Oh, the one on the right!" [LAUGHS] 0:04:27.139,0:04:28.879 --[VORRASI] Yeah, yeah! No, definitely. 0:04:28.879,0:04:31.560 --Even, like, putting white magnets as opposed[br]to black magnets... 0:04:31.560,0:04:35.539 --So, I'm just, like, "If we could just cut[br]down on some variables, like," 0:04:35.539,0:04:39.680 --"we can kind of concentrate on what is changing,[br]and how to, like, address those things." 0:04:41.340,0:04:44.780 [PAGLEN] In the sky, there traditionally is[br]a promise of, kind of, openness, 0:04:44.780,0:04:47.200 or a kind of freedom. 0:04:49.060,0:04:52.040 But the sky itself has been turned against us. 0:04:52.520,0:04:55.040 The drone is just the punctuation mark. 0:04:58.660,0:04:59.460 --[VORRASI] The drone looks great. 0:04:59.460,0:05:00.240 --[PAGLEN] Yeah.