WEBVTT 00:00:07.420 --> 00:00:10.300 [Jeff Wall: An Impossible Photograph] 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:13.060 [INTERVIEWER, OFF SCREEN] So let me just ask a question. 00:00:13.860 --> 00:00:15.780 The gentleman on the wall there, 00:00:15.790 --> 00:00:17.779 who's looking in the plate-glass window, 00:00:17.780 --> 00:00:21.230 and who has these incredible trousers on-- 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:23.260 did you make those trousers? 00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:24.699 Did he make those trousers? 00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:26.880 Did you impose those trousers on him? 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:28.640 Is there any artifice going on there? 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.280 How do you describe that? 00:00:30.520 --> 00:00:32.280 [JEFF WALL] It's classified information. 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:33.280 [LAUGHS] 00:00:33.660 --> 00:00:35.840 [INTERVIEWER] And the same of the other picture there, 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.120 with the woman trying on the dress? 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:40.420 [WALL] That's also classified information. 00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:41.740 What you see happening, happened. 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:43.720 That's all I have to tell you. 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:47.120 How it happened is secondary 00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:48.500 to the fact that it happened. 00:00:49.700 --> 00:00:52.860 And let's imagine that I found this man on the sidewalk 00:00:52.860 --> 00:00:55.720 and got him to do what he was already doing-- 00:00:56.500 --> 00:00:59.140 or if I had elaborately reconstructed that-- 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.740 what's the difference? 00:01:02.620 --> 00:01:04.540 I mean, there is obviously a difference 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:06.920 factually, historically, and so on. 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:09.600 And in photography, that difference matters. 00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:11.340 Artistically in photography, 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:15.240 it can't matter any more than it does in any other art form. 00:01:16.940 --> 00:01:19.060 In painting, it doesn't matter. 00:01:19.070 --> 00:01:20.750 In sculpture, it doesn't matter. 00:01:20.750 --> 00:01:22.840 In theater, it doesn't matter. 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:24.290 In cinema, it doesn't matter. 00:01:24.290 --> 00:01:26.670 It only matters in one art form, 00:01:26.670 --> 00:01:28.260 and that's photography. 00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:30.660 That's why you have to deal with it. 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:32.740 [INTERVIEWER] Well, what was the starting point? 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:35.240 [WALL] Um... 00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:39.540 Kind of a memory from thirty, forty years ago 00:01:39.940 --> 00:01:41.920 that came back unexpectedly. 00:01:44.180 --> 00:01:45.540 When I realized I liked the subject, 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:48.600 the question was, "How on earth could you photograph that?" 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.980 The impossibility of seeing it was one of the triggers for it becoming interesting. 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:59.600 So, on that side of the dressing room, 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:02.160 you know there will be a mirror, 00:02:02.160 --> 00:02:03.850 because on the opposite side is a curtain. 00:02:04.220 --> 00:02:05.380 But it's not a mirror image, 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:07.660 because if you look at the hangers, 00:02:07.660 --> 00:02:09.320 they say "Barneys" on them-- 00:02:09.940 --> 00:02:10.840 not backwards. 00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:14.120 The curtain is closed. 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:17.800 No one has got access to see into the dressing room. 00:02:18.880 --> 00:02:21.760 You're not allowed to have one-way mirrors in dressing rooms. 00:02:22.200 --> 00:02:24.700 You can't have surveillance cameras in dressing rooms. 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:27.480 These are all facts that, 00:02:27.480 --> 00:02:29.460 if you analyze the picture, 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:31.300 you will have to come to this conclusion. 00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:32.770 Therefore, the only thing that you can be seeing 00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:34.260 is what the mirror sees. 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.700 So, that's a picture that can't be made. 00:02:38.720 --> 00:02:41.260 This caused many interesting difficulties. 00:02:43.420 --> 00:02:45.960 Barneys is a store you can steal from. 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:50.380 So of course I had to go to Barneys 00:02:50.380 --> 00:02:52.480 and take photographs of the dressing rooms 00:02:52.480 --> 00:02:54.020 and measure them and get every detail 00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:55.540 and then copy the thing. 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:00.020 [CLICKING OF LIGHT SWITCH ECHOES] 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:04.080 What I've told you is something that I believe 00:03:04.099 --> 00:03:05.959 if you pay attention to that picture 00:03:05.959 --> 00:03:08.610 and enjoy it and look at it-- get involved in it-- 00:03:08.610 --> 00:03:09.920 it'll come to you. 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.180 And when it comes to you, it'll be exciting. 00:03:14.320 --> 00:03:16.620 You know, the most beautiful artistry is hidden. 00:03:17.140 --> 00:03:18.200 But there's no secret. 00:03:19.140 --> 00:03:20.560 It's not like it's a secret. 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:22.260 It's a condition.