1 00:00:07,420 --> 00:00:10,300 [Jeff Wall: An Impossible Photograph] 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,060 [INTERVIEWER, OFF SCREEN] So let me just ask a question. 3 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:15,780 The gentleman on the wall there, 4 00:00:15,790 --> 00:00:17,779 who's looking in the plate-glass window, 5 00:00:17,780 --> 00:00:21,230 and who has these incredible trousers on-- 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:23,260 did you make those trousers? 7 00:00:23,260 --> 00:00:24,699 Did he make those trousers? 8 00:00:24,699 --> 00:00:26,880 Did you impose those trousers on him? 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,640 Is there any artifice going on there? 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,280 How do you describe that? 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,280 [JEFF WALL] It's classified information. 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,280 [LAUGHS] 13 00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:35,840 [INTERVIEWER] And the same of the other picture there, 14 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,120 with the woman trying on the dress? 15 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,420 [WALL] That's also classified information. 16 00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:41,740 What you see happening, happened. 17 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:43,720 That's all I have to tell you. 18 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,120 How it happened is secondary 19 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,500 to the fact that it happened. 20 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:52,860 And let's imagine that I found this man on the sidewalk 21 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:55,720 and got him to do what he was already doing-- 22 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:59,140 or if I had elaborately reconstructed that-- 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,740 what's the difference? 24 00:01:02,620 --> 00:01:04,540 I mean, there is obviously a difference 25 00:01:04,540 --> 00:01:06,920 factually, historically, and so on. 26 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,600 And in photography, that difference matters. 27 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,340 Artistically in photography, 28 00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:15,240 it can't matter any more than it does in any other art form. 29 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:19,060 In painting, it doesn't matter. 30 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:20,750 In sculpture, it doesn't matter. 31 00:01:20,750 --> 00:01:22,840 In theater, it doesn't matter. 32 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,290 In cinema, it doesn't matter. 33 00:01:24,290 --> 00:01:26,670 It only matters in one art form, 34 00:01:26,670 --> 00:01:28,260 and that's photography. 35 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:30,660 That's why you have to deal with it. 36 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,740 [INTERVIEWER] Well, what was the starting point? 37 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:35,240 [WALL] Um... 38 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,540 Kind of a memory from thirty, forty years ago 39 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:41,920 that came back unexpectedly. 40 00:01:44,180 --> 00:01:45,540 When I realized I liked the subject, 41 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:48,600 the question was, "How on earth could you photograph that?" 42 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,980 The impossibility of seeing it was one of the triggers for it becoming interesting. 43 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,600 So, on that side of the dressing room, 44 00:02:00,340 --> 00:02:02,160 you know there will be a mirror, 45 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:03,850 because on the opposite side is a curtain. 46 00:02:04,220 --> 00:02:05,380 But it's not a mirror image, 47 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,660 because if you look at the hangers, 48 00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:09,320 they say "Barneys" on them-- 49 00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:10,840 not backwards. 50 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:14,120 The curtain is closed. 51 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,800 No one has got access to see into the dressing room. 52 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,760 You're not allowed to have one-way mirrors in dressing rooms. 53 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,700 You can't have surveillance cameras in dressing rooms. 54 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:27,480 These are all facts that, 55 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,460 if you analyze the picture, 56 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:31,300 you will have to come to this conclusion. 57 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:32,770 Therefore, the only thing that you can be seeing 58 00:02:32,770 --> 00:02:34,260 is what the mirror sees. 59 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,700 So, that's a picture that can't be made. 60 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,260 This caused many interesting difficulties. 61 00:02:43,420 --> 00:02:45,960 Barneys is a store you can steal from. 62 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,380 So of course I had to go to Barneys 63 00:02:50,380 --> 00:02:52,480 and take photographs of the dressing rooms 64 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,020 and measure them and get every detail 65 00:02:54,020 --> 00:02:55,540 and then copy the thing. 66 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,020 [CLICKING OF LIGHT SWITCH ECHOES] 67 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:04,080 What I've told you is something that I believe 68 00:03:04,099 --> 00:03:05,959 if you pay attention to that picture 69 00:03:05,959 --> 00:03:08,610 and enjoy it and look at it-- get involved in it-- 70 00:03:08,610 --> 00:03:09,920 it'll come to you. 71 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,180 And when it comes to you, it'll be exciting. 72 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,620 You know, the most beautiful artistry is hidden. 73 00:03:17,140 --> 00:03:18,200 But there's no secret. 74 00:03:19,140 --> 00:03:20,560 It's not like it's a secret. 75 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,260 It's a condition.