WEBVTT 00:00:01.627 --> 00:00:05.659 It was a fantastic new pink suit 00:00:05.683 --> 00:00:08.515 with big buttons and shoulder pads. 00:00:09.476 --> 00:00:11.387 It was 1997, 00:00:11.411 --> 00:00:14.021 and I was the new boss of Griffin's Foods, 00:00:14.045 --> 00:00:17.225 an iconic cookie and snacks company in New Zealand. 00:00:18.148 --> 00:00:20.839 It was my first time as the leader of a company, 00:00:20.863 --> 00:00:23.403 and I was on the stage to give a big speech 00:00:23.427 --> 00:00:25.427 about our ambitious new goals. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:26.830 --> 00:00:29.314 I knew exactly what my call to action was, 00:00:29.338 --> 00:00:32.806 which was "One in every four times a Kiwi eats a snack, 00:00:32.830 --> 00:00:34.363 it will be one of ours." 00:00:35.266 --> 00:00:38.315 I emphasized that we knew how to measure our results 00:00:38.339 --> 00:00:41.352 and that our future was in our control. 00:00:42.448 --> 00:00:43.655 Embarrassingly enough, 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.392 I finished up with "If not this, what? 00:00:46.416 --> 00:00:47.630 If not us, who? 00:00:47.654 --> 00:00:49.588 And if not now, when?" NOTE Paragraph 00:00:51.231 --> 00:00:52.859 I got this huge round of applause 00:00:52.883 --> 00:00:55.950 and I was really, really pleased with myself. 00:00:57.279 --> 00:00:59.746 I wanted so much to be a good leader. 00:01:00.474 --> 00:01:03.569 I wanted to be followed by a devoted team, 00:01:03.593 --> 00:01:04.993 I wanted to be right. 00:01:05.823 --> 00:01:08.523 In short, I wanted to be a hero. 00:01:09.165 --> 00:01:13.101 A hero selling chips and biscuits in a pink suit. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:13.125 --> 00:01:15.323 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:01:16.403 --> 00:01:18.536 What happened after that speech? 00:01:19.419 --> 00:01:20.569 Nothing. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:21.561 --> 00:01:24.451 All of that applause did not lead to action. 00:01:24.475 --> 00:01:25.625 Nothing changed. 00:01:26.021 --> 00:01:28.973 Not because they didn't like me or the message. 00:01:28.997 --> 00:01:32.537 The problem was that no one knew what they were expected to do. 00:01:32.561 --> 00:01:33.965 And most importantly, 00:01:33.989 --> 00:01:36.389 they didn't know that I needed them. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:37.141 --> 00:01:39.672 Now, you may think that this is a classic hero speech, 00:01:39.696 --> 00:01:43.258 where I'm going to tell you that I overcame that obstacle and triumphed. 00:01:43.736 --> 00:01:46.053 Actually, I'm going to tell you 00:01:46.077 --> 00:01:48.647 that in a world as complex and interconnected 00:01:48.671 --> 00:01:50.282 as the one we live in, 00:01:50.306 --> 00:01:54.020 the idea that one person has the answer is ludicrous. 00:01:54.624 --> 00:01:58.060 It's not only ineffective, it's dangerous, 00:01:58.084 --> 00:02:02.164 because it leads us to believe that it's been solved by that hero, 00:02:02.188 --> 00:02:04.045 and we have no role. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:05.323 --> 00:02:06.863 We don't need heroes. 00:02:06.887 --> 00:02:09.339 We need radical interdependence, 00:02:09.363 --> 00:02:12.225 which is just another way of saying we need each other. 00:02:12.792 --> 00:02:16.024 Even though other people can be really difficult, sometimes. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:18.334 --> 00:02:21.929 I spent decades trying to work out how to be a good leader. 00:02:21.953 --> 00:02:24.794 I've lived in seven countries and five continents. 00:02:25.458 --> 00:02:26.783 And in recent years, 00:02:26.807 --> 00:02:29.736 I've spent a lot of time with the B Corp community, 00:02:29.760 --> 00:02:31.823 originally as a corporate participant 00:02:31.847 --> 00:02:34.180 and more recently as an ambassador. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:35.403 --> 00:02:37.172 Now, B Corps are a group of companies 00:02:37.196 --> 00:02:40.116 who believe in business as a force for good. 00:02:40.649 --> 00:02:44.395 There's a tough certification with about 250 questions 00:02:44.419 --> 00:02:47.685 about your social and environmental performance. 00:02:48.069 --> 00:02:50.426 You must legally declare your intention 00:02:50.450 --> 00:02:53.410 to serve the community as well as your shareholders 00:02:53.434 --> 00:02:57.323 and you must sign the declaration of interdependence. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:58.427 --> 00:03:00.903 Now one of the things that inspires me the most 00:03:00.927 --> 00:03:02.969 about the companies in this movement 00:03:02.993 --> 00:03:05.839 is that they see themselves as part of a whole system. 00:03:07.024 --> 00:03:12.532 It's sort of as if they imagine themselves on a big, flowing river of activity, 00:03:12.556 --> 00:03:17.220 where, if they are, for example, soft drinks manufacturers, 00:03:17.244 --> 00:03:20.371 they understand that upstream from them, 00:03:20.395 --> 00:03:23.371 there's water and sugar, 00:03:23.395 --> 00:03:25.640 and farmers that grow that sugar, 00:03:25.664 --> 00:03:28.735 and plastic and metal and glass, 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.659 all of which flows into this thing 00:03:31.683 --> 00:03:34.711 that we call a company which has financial results. 00:03:35.252 --> 00:03:39.244 And the flowing continues with consequences. 00:03:39.268 --> 00:03:40.752 Some of them intended, 00:03:40.776 --> 00:03:43.714 like refreshment and hydration, 00:03:43.738 --> 00:03:45.468 and some unintended, 00:03:45.492 --> 00:03:48.341 like garbage and obesity. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:49.492 --> 00:03:51.428 Spending time with leaders in this space 00:03:51.452 --> 00:03:55.715 has led me to see that true collaboration is possible, 00:03:55.739 --> 00:03:58.373 but it's subtle and it's complex. 00:03:58.397 --> 00:04:01.960 And the leaders in this space are doing a few things very differently 00:04:01.984 --> 00:04:04.160 from traditional heroic leaders. 00:04:05.125 --> 00:04:07.379 They set goals differently, 00:04:07.403 --> 00:04:09.783 they announce those goals differently 00:04:09.807 --> 00:04:13.125 and they have a very different relationship with other people. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:13.593 --> 00:04:15.875 Let's begin with the first difference. 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:21.402 A hero sets a goal that can be individually delivered 00:04:21.426 --> 00:04:22.759 and neatly measured. 00:04:23.815 --> 00:04:25.641 You can recognize a heroic goal -- 00:04:25.665 --> 00:04:28.683 they use terms like "revenue" and "market share" 00:04:28.707 --> 00:04:30.612 and are often competitive. 00:04:30.636 --> 00:04:32.516 I mean, remember pink-suit day? 00:04:34.390 --> 00:04:36.390 Interdependent leaders, on the other hand, 00:04:36.414 --> 00:04:38.656 start with a goal that's really important, 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:44.497 but is actually impossible to achieve by one company or one person alone. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:45.228 --> 00:04:47.895 I want to give you an example from the clothing industry, 00:04:47.919 --> 00:04:51.807 which produces 92 million tons of waste a year. 00:04:52.744 --> 00:04:56.791 Patagonia and Eileen Fisher are clothing manufacturers, 00:04:56.815 --> 00:04:58.514 both of them B Corps, 00:04:58.538 --> 00:05:01.946 both of them deeply committed to reducing waste. 00:05:02.637 --> 00:05:06.406 They don't see that their responsibility ends 00:05:06.430 --> 00:05:08.518 when a customer buys their clothes. 00:05:09.034 --> 00:05:12.940 Patagonia encourages you not to buy new clothes from them, 00:05:12.964 --> 00:05:15.955 and will repair your old clothes for free. 00:05:15.979 --> 00:05:19.598 Eileen Fisher will pay you when you bring back your clothes, 00:05:19.622 --> 00:05:23.130 and either sell them on or turn them into other clothes. 00:05:24.276 --> 00:05:27.641 While these two companies are competitive in some ways, 00:05:27.665 --> 00:05:30.228 they work together and with others in the industry 00:05:30.252 --> 00:05:32.172 to solve shared problems. 00:05:33.149 --> 00:05:36.602 They take responsibility for things that happen upstream as well. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:37.395 --> 00:05:38.561 Around the world, 00:05:38.585 --> 00:05:43.252 there are around 300 million people who work from home in this industry, 00:05:43.276 --> 00:05:44.855 most of them women, 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.680 many of them in very difficult circumstances 00:05:47.704 --> 00:05:49.252 with poor lighting, 00:05:49.276 --> 00:05:52.609 sewing on buttons and doing detailed stitching. 00:05:53.117 --> 00:05:57.434 Until 2014, there was no protection for these workers. 00:05:58.101 --> 00:06:02.212 A group of companies got together with a not-for-profit called Nest 00:06:02.236 --> 00:06:04.037 to create a set of standards 00:06:04.061 --> 00:06:06.664 that's now been adopted by the whole industry. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:07.681 --> 00:06:11.594 Once you've seen problems like this, you can't unsee them, 00:06:11.618 --> 00:06:14.483 so you have to ask others to help you to solve them. 00:06:14.507 --> 00:06:16.978 These folks take interdependence as a given, 00:06:17.002 --> 00:06:18.585 and said to me, 00:06:18.609 --> 00:06:20.942 "We don't compete on human rights." NOTE Paragraph 00:06:22.236 --> 00:06:24.895 The second big difference for collaborators 00:06:24.919 --> 00:06:28.576 is their willingness to declare their goals before they have a plan. 00:06:29.965 --> 00:06:34.497 Now the hero only reveals their carefully crafted goal 00:06:34.521 --> 00:06:36.648 when the path to achieve it is clear. 00:06:36.989 --> 00:06:42.228 In fact, the role of the hero announcement is to set the stage for the big win. 00:06:42.252 --> 00:06:44.852 Hero announcements are full of triumph. 00:06:46.112 --> 00:06:49.096 Interdependent leaders, on the other hand, 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:50.938 want other people to help them, 00:06:50.962 --> 00:06:55.958 so their announcements are often an invitation for co-creation, 00:06:55.982 --> 00:06:58.582 and sometimes, they're a call for help. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:59.911 --> 00:07:03.307 At the North American division of the French food company Danone, 00:07:03.331 --> 00:07:06.465 I announced that we wanted to become a B Corp. 00:07:06.847 --> 00:07:08.498 And unlike pink-suit day, 00:07:08.522 --> 00:07:10.743 I had no plan to get there. 00:07:12.069 --> 00:07:14.514 I remember the day really clearly. 00:07:14.538 --> 00:07:16.855 Everybody in the room gasped, 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.546 because they knew we didn't have a plan. 00:07:20.478 --> 00:07:25.022 But they also knew that we had seen our role 00:07:25.046 --> 00:07:27.958 in the river that is the food system, 00:07:27.982 --> 00:07:30.049 and we wanted to make a change. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:33.595 Making that declaration without a plan 00:07:33.619 --> 00:07:36.318 meant that so many young people in our company 00:07:36.342 --> 00:07:38.294 stepped up to help us, 00:07:38.318 --> 00:07:42.216 and B Corps around us all rallied around. 00:07:42.556 --> 00:07:44.434 And the day we became a B Corp 00:07:44.458 --> 00:07:48.910 wasn't just a self-congratulatory moment of a hero company -- 00:07:48.934 --> 00:07:52.037 it was more like a community celebration. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:53.748 --> 00:07:57.160 Now when you gave goals that you can't achieve alone, 00:07:57.184 --> 00:07:59.716 and you've told everyone about them, 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:04.141 inevitably, you'll end up at the third big difference, 00:08:04.165 --> 00:08:06.260 which is how you see other people, 00:08:06.284 --> 00:08:08.886 inside your company and outside. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:10.998 --> 00:08:15.363 Heroes see everyone as a competitor or a follower. 00:08:16.736 --> 00:08:18.688 Heroes don't want input, 00:08:18.712 --> 00:08:22.069 because they want to control everything because they want the credit. 00:08:22.673 --> 00:08:26.029 And you can see this in a typical hero meeting. 00:08:26.617 --> 00:08:28.484 Heroes like making speeches. 00:08:29.752 --> 00:08:32.966 People lean back in their chairs, 00:08:32.990 --> 00:08:35.934 maybe impressed but not engaged. 00:08:36.911 --> 00:08:38.926 Interdependent leaders, on the other hand, 00:08:38.950 --> 00:08:41.437 understand that they need other people. 00:08:41.461 --> 00:08:45.342 They know that meetings are not just mindless calendar fillers. 00:08:45.366 --> 00:08:47.842 These are the most precious things you have. 00:08:47.866 --> 00:08:50.357 It's where people collaborate and communicate 00:08:50.381 --> 00:08:51.984 and share ideas. 00:08:52.458 --> 00:08:55.315 People lean forward in meetings like this, 00:08:55.339 --> 00:08:57.606 wondering where they might fit in. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:00.482 --> 00:09:02.545 When I was in Shanghai in China, 00:09:02.569 --> 00:09:05.862 where I lived for six years, running the Kraft Foods business, 00:09:05.886 --> 00:09:09.600 selling, amongst other things, Oreo cookies, 00:09:09.624 --> 00:09:11.958 we had a problem with hero culture. 00:09:13.337 --> 00:09:16.059 We kept on launching new products that failed. 00:09:16.083 --> 00:09:17.631 And we would find out afterwards 00:09:17.655 --> 00:09:20.400 that everyone in the company knew they were going to fail, 00:09:20.424 --> 00:09:22.244 they just didn't feel free to tell us. 00:09:22.268 --> 00:09:26.379 So we changed the way we ran our innovation and planning meetings 00:09:26.403 --> 00:09:27.934 in two important ways. 00:09:27.958 --> 00:09:30.958 First of all, language went back to Chinese. 00:09:31.351 --> 00:09:34.422 Because even though everyone spoke great English, 00:09:34.446 --> 00:09:37.026 when I was in the room and the meeting was in English, 00:09:37.050 --> 00:09:38.214 they focused on me. 00:09:38.238 --> 00:09:40.311 And I was the foreigner, and I was the boss 00:09:40.335 --> 00:09:43.526 and I apparently had that intimidating hero look. 00:09:44.321 --> 00:09:45.606 The second thing 00:09:45.630 --> 00:09:50.064 is we asked every single person in the meeting their opinion. 00:09:50.765 --> 00:09:54.086 And our understanding of the subtleties of the differences 00:09:54.110 --> 00:09:57.863 between American taste and Chinese taste, in this case, 00:09:57.887 --> 00:09:59.466 really improved, 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:02.424 and our new product success rate radically turned around 00:10:02.448 --> 00:10:04.353 and we launched a lot of winners, 00:10:04.377 --> 00:10:08.224 including the now famous green-tea-flavored Oreos. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:10.070 --> 00:10:12.337 Hero culture sneaks in everywhere. 00:10:12.943 --> 00:10:16.006 At Danone, we had a lot of great stuff happening 00:10:16.030 --> 00:10:17.854 in one part of the world, 00:10:17.878 --> 00:10:20.768 and we wanted it to spread to another part of the world. 00:10:21.482 --> 00:10:24.058 But when you put a person in business gear 00:10:24.082 --> 00:10:26.986 up in front of a group of people with PowerPoint, 00:10:27.010 --> 00:10:30.200 they have the urge to become sort of heroic. 00:10:30.549 --> 00:10:32.527 And they make everything look super shiny 00:10:32.551 --> 00:10:34.224 and they don't tell the truth. 00:10:34.248 --> 00:10:37.629 And it's not compelling and it's not even interesting. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:38.110 --> 00:10:39.896 So, we changed it 00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:43.141 and we created these full-day marketplaces, 00:10:43.165 --> 00:10:44.899 kind of like a big bazaar. 00:10:45.292 --> 00:10:47.316 And everybody was dressed up in costume, 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:49.659 some people a little, some people a lot. 00:10:49.683 --> 00:10:51.977 And sellers had to man their stalls 00:10:52.001 --> 00:10:55.048 and sell their ideas as persuasively as possible, 00:10:55.072 --> 00:10:58.855 and people who were convinced bought them with fake check books. 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.367 Creating just a bit of silliness with the environment 00:11:01.391 --> 00:11:02.752 and a hat or a scarf 00:11:02.776 --> 00:11:07.719 drops people's guard and causes ideas to spread like wildfire. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:08.243 --> 00:11:10.275 There's no recipe here, 00:11:10.299 --> 00:11:15.931 but time together has to be carefully curated and created 00:11:15.955 --> 00:11:20.514 so that people know that their time is valuable and important, 00:11:20.538 --> 00:11:22.950 and they can bring their best selves to the table. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:25.071 --> 00:11:27.871 Hero culture is present right here in TED. 00:11:28.705 --> 00:11:33.210 This whole process makes it look like I think I'm a hero. 00:11:34.157 --> 00:11:38.852 So just in case there's any doubt about the point that I'm trying to make, 00:11:38.876 --> 00:11:41.185 I want to apply these ideas 00:11:41.209 --> 00:11:44.056 in an area in which I have zero credibility 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:45.796 and zero experience. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:46.225 --> 00:11:48.249 I'm originally South African, 00:11:48.273 --> 00:11:51.323 and I'm deeply passionate about wildlife conservation, 00:11:51.347 --> 00:11:53.283 most particularly rhinos. 00:11:53.648 --> 00:11:56.327 Those majestic creatures with big horns. 00:11:57.624 --> 00:12:00.569 Every day, three rhinos are killed, 00:12:00.593 --> 00:12:04.656 because there are people who think that those horns are valuable, 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:06.884 even though they're just made of the same stuff 00:12:06.908 --> 00:12:08.575 as hair and fingernails. 00:12:09.891 --> 00:12:11.157 It breaks my heart. 00:12:13.106 --> 00:12:15.915 Like all good recovering heroes, 00:12:15.939 --> 00:12:19.680 I did everything I could to reduce this goal 00:12:19.704 --> 00:12:22.304 to something that I could do by myself. 00:12:23.085 --> 00:12:28.015 But clearly, stopping rhino poaching is a goal way too big for me. 00:12:28.530 --> 00:12:31.585 So I'm immediately in interdependence land. 00:12:32.760 --> 00:12:35.656 I'm declaring my goal on this stage. 00:12:36.252 --> 00:12:38.863 I found other people as passionate as I am 00:12:38.887 --> 00:12:40.895 and I've asked if I could join them. 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.307 And after today, there may be more. 00:12:43.331 --> 00:12:46.741 And we're now in the complex but inspiring process 00:12:46.765 --> 00:12:48.704 of learning how to work together. 00:12:49.046 --> 00:12:52.268 My dream is that one day, someone will stand on this stage 00:12:52.292 --> 00:12:57.053 and tell you how radical interdependence saved my beloved rhinos. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:58.442 --> 00:13:00.638 Why does hero culture persist, 00:13:00.662 --> 00:13:03.062 and why don't we work together more? 00:13:03.784 --> 00:13:05.903 Well, I don't know why everyone else does it, 00:13:05.927 --> 00:13:08.060 but I can tell you why I did it. 00:13:08.496 --> 00:13:11.987 Interdependence is a lot harder than being a hero. 00:13:12.694 --> 00:13:16.250 It requires us to be open and transparent and vulnerable, 00:13:16.274 --> 00:13:19.884 and that's not what traditional leaders have been trained to do. 00:13:21.048 --> 00:13:23.848 I thought being a hero would keep me safe. 00:13:25.056 --> 00:13:27.119 I thought that in the elevation 00:13:27.143 --> 00:13:30.315 and separation that comes from heroic leadership, 00:13:30.339 --> 00:13:32.815 that I would be untouchable. 00:13:34.228 --> 00:13:35.561 This is an illusion. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:36.776 --> 00:13:40.823 The joy and success that comes from interdependence and vulnerability 00:13:40.847 --> 00:13:42.980 is worth the effort and the risk. 00:13:44.339 --> 00:13:48.116 And if we're going to solve the challenges that the world is facing today, 00:13:48.140 --> 00:13:49.748 we have no alternative, 00:13:49.772 --> 00:13:52.572 so we had better start getting good at it. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:53.532 --> 00:13:54.682 Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:54.706 --> 00:13:59.595 (Applause)