0:00:01.627,0:00:05.659
It was a fantastic new pink suit

0:00:05.683,0:00:08.515
with big buttons and shoulder pads

0:00:09.476,0:00:11.387
It was 1997,

0:00:11.411,0:00:14.021
and I was the new boss of Griffin's Foods,

0:00:14.045,0:00:17.512
an iconic cookie and snacks[br]company in New Zealand.

0:00:18.148,0:00:20.839
It was my first time[br]as the leader of a company,

0:00:20.863,0:00:23.403
and I was on the stage[br]to give a big speech

0:00:23.427,0:00:25.427
about our ambitious new goals.

0:00:26.830,0:00:29.314
I knew exactly what my call to action was,

0:00:29.338,0:00:32.806
which was, one in every four times[br]a Kiwi eats snack,

0:00:32.830,0:00:34.363
it will be one of ours.

0:00:35.266,0:00:38.315
I emphasized that we knew[br]how to measure our results,

0:00:38.339,0:00:41.352
and that our future was in our control.

0:00:42.448,0:00:43.655
Embarrassingly enough,

0:00:43.679,0:00:46.392
I finished up with "If not this, what?

0:00:46.416,0:00:47.630
If not us, who?

0:00:47.654,0:00:49.588
And if not now, when?"

0:00:51.231,0:00:52.859
I got this huge round of applause

0:00:52.883,0:00:55.950
and I was really,[br]really pleased with myself.

0:00:57.279,0:00:59.746
I wanted so much to be a good leader.

0:01:00.474,0:01:03.569
I wanted to be followed by a devoted team,

0:01:03.593,0:01:04.993
I wanted to be right.

0:01:05.823,0:01:08.523
In short, I wanted to be a hero.

0:01:09.165,0:01:13.101
A hero selling chips[br]and biscuits in a pink suit.

0:01:13.125,0:01:15.054
(Laughter)

0:01:16.403,0:01:18.536
What happened after that speech?

0:01:19.419,0:01:20.569
Nothing.

0:01:21.561,0:01:24.451
All of that applause[br]did not lead to action.

0:01:24.475,0:01:25.625
Nothing changed.

0:01:26.021,0:01:28.973
Not because they didn't like[br]me or the message.

0:01:28.997,0:01:32.537
The problem was that no one knew[br]what they were expected to do.

0:01:32.561,0:01:33.965
And most importantly,

0:01:33.989,0:01:36.389
they didn't know that I needed them.

0:01:37.141,0:01:39.672
Now, you may think[br]that this is a classic hero speech,

0:01:39.696,0:01:43.258
where I'm going to tell you that[br]I overcame that obstacle and triumphed.

0:01:43.736,0:01:46.053
Actually, I'm going to tell you

0:01:46.077,0:01:48.647
that in a world as complex[br]and interconnected

0:01:48.671,0:01:50.282
as the one we live in,

0:01:50.306,0:01:54.020
the idea that one person[br]has the answer is ludicrous.

0:01:54.624,0:01:57.766
It's not only ineffective, it's dangerous.

0:01:58.084,0:01:59.705
Because it leads us to believe

0:01:59.729,0:02:02.164
that it's been solved by that hero,

0:02:02.188,0:02:04.045
and we have no role.

0:02:05.323,0:02:06.863
We don't need heroes.

0:02:06.887,0:02:09.020
We need radical interdependence.

0:02:09.363,0:02:12.225
Which is just another way[br]of saying we need each other.

0:02:12.792,0:02:16.024
Even though other people[br]can be really difficult sometimes.

0:02:18.334,0:02:21.929
I spent decades trying to work out[br]how to be a good leader.

0:02:21.953,0:02:24.794
I've lived in seven countries[br]in five continents.

0:02:25.458,0:02:26.783
And in recent years,

0:02:26.807,0:02:29.736
I've spent a lot of time[br]with the B Corp community,

0:02:29.760,0:02:31.823
originally as a corporate participant,

0:02:31.847,0:02:34.180
and more recently as an ambassador.

0:02:35.403,0:02:37.172
Now, B Corps are a group of companies

0:02:37.196,0:02:40.116
who believe in business[br]as a force for good.

0:02:40.649,0:02:44.395
There's a tough certification[br]with about 250 questions

0:02:44.419,0:02:47.685
about your social[br]and environmental performance.

0:02:48.069,0:02:50.426
You must legally declare your intention

0:02:50.450,0:02:53.410
to serve the community[br]as well as your shareholders,

0:02:53.434,0:02:57.323
and you must sign the declaration[br]of interdependence.

0:02:58.427,0:03:00.903
Now, one of the things[br]that inspires me the most

0:03:00.927,0:03:02.969
about the companies in this movement

0:03:02.993,0:03:05.839
is that they see themselves[br]as part of a whole system.

0:03:07.024,0:03:09.143
It's sort of as if they imagine themselves

0:03:09.167,0:03:12.532
on a big, flowing river of activity,

0:03:12.556,0:03:17.220
where, if they are, for example,[br]soft drinks manufacturers,

0:03:17.244,0:03:20.371
they understand that upstream from them

0:03:20.395,0:03:23.371
there's water and sugar

0:03:23.395,0:03:25.640
and farmers that grow that sugar.

0:03:25.664,0:03:28.735
And plastic and metal and glass.

0:03:28.759,0:03:31.659
All of which flows into this thing

0:03:31.683,0:03:34.711
that we call a company[br]which has financial results.

0:03:35.252,0:03:39.244
And the flowing continues[br]with consequences.

0:03:39.268,0:03:40.752
Some of them intended.

0:03:40.776,0:03:43.355
Like, refreshment and hydration.

0:03:43.738,0:03:45.468
And some unintended,

0:03:45.492,0:03:48.341
like garbage and obesity.

0:03:49.492,0:03:51.428
Spending time with leaders in this space

0:03:51.452,0:03:55.715
has led me to see that[br]true collaboration is possible,

0:03:55.739,0:03:58.373
but it's subtle and it's complex.

0:03:58.397,0:04:01.960
And the leaders in this space[br]are doing a few things very differently

0:04:01.984,0:04:04.160
from traditional heroic leaders.

0:04:05.125,0:04:07.379
They set goals differently,

0:04:07.403,0:04:09.783
they announce those goals differently,

0:04:09.807,0:04:13.125
and they have a very different[br]relationship with other people.

0:04:13.593,0:04:15.942
Let's begin with the first difference.

0:04:16.839,0:04:18.902
A hero sets a goal

0:04:18.926,0:04:21.402
that can be individually delivered

0:04:21.426,0:04:22.759
and neatly measured.

0:04:23.815,0:04:25.641
You can recognize a heroic goal.

0:04:25.665,0:04:28.683
They use terms like[br]revenue and market share,

0:04:28.707,0:04:30.612
and are often competitive.

0:04:30.636,0:04:32.516
Remember pink-suit day?

0:04:34.422,0:04:36.390
Interdependent leaders on the other hand

0:04:36.414,0:04:38.656
start with a goal that's really important

0:04:38.680,0:04:41.601
but is actually impossible to achieve

0:04:41.625,0:04:44.497
by one company or one person alone.

0:04:45.236,0:04:47.895
I want to give you an example[br]from the clothing industry

0:04:47.919,0:04:51.807
which produces 92 million tons[br]of waste a year.

0:04:52.744,0:04:56.791
Patagonia and Eileen Fisher[br]are clothing manufacturers,

0:04:56.815,0:04:58.514
both of them B Corps,

0:04:58.538,0:05:01.946
both of them deeply committed[br]to reducing waste.

0:05:02.637,0:05:06.406
They don't see that[br]their responsibility ends

0:05:06.430,0:05:08.518
when a customer buys their clothes.

0:05:09.034,0:05:12.940
Patagonia encourages you[br]not to buy new clothes from them

0:05:12.964,0:05:15.955
and will repair your old clothes for free.

0:05:15.979,0:05:19.598
Eileen Fisher will pay you[br]when you bring back your clothes,

0:05:19.622,0:05:21.392
and either sell them on,

0:05:21.416,0:05:23.335
or turn them into other clothes.

0:05:24.276,0:05:27.641
While these two companies[br]are competitive in some ways,

0:05:27.665,0:05:30.228
they work together[br]and with others in the industry

0:05:30.252,0:05:32.172
to solve shared problems.

0:05:33.149,0:05:36.602
They take responsibility for things[br]that happen upstream as well.

0:05:37.395,0:05:38.561
Around the world,

0:05:38.585,0:05:43.252
there are around 300 million people[br]who work from home in this industry,

0:05:43.276,0:05:44.855
most of them women,

0:05:44.879,0:05:47.680
many of them in very[br]difficult circumstances

0:05:47.704,0:05:49.252
with poor lighting,

0:05:49.276,0:05:52.609
sewing on buttons[br]and doing detailed stitching.

0:05:53.117,0:05:57.434
Until 2014, there was no protection[br]for these workers.

0:05:58.101,0:05:59.847
A group of companies got together

0:05:59.871,0:06:02.212
with a not for profit called Nest

0:06:02.236,0:06:04.037
to create a set of standards

0:06:04.061,0:06:06.958
that's now been adopted[br]by the whole industry.

0:06:07.681,0:06:09.435
Once you've seen problems like this,

0:06:09.459,0:06:11.046
you can't unsee them.

0:06:11.618,0:06:14.483
So you have to ask others[br]to help you to solve them.

0:06:14.507,0:06:16.978
These folks take[br]interdependence as a given,

0:06:17.002,0:06:18.585
and said to me,

0:06:18.609,0:06:20.942
"We don't compete on human rights."

0:06:22.236,0:06:24.895
The second big difference[br]for collaborators

0:06:24.919,0:06:28.576
is their willingness to declare[br]their goals before they have a plan.

0:06:29.965,0:06:34.497
Now, the hero only reveals[br]their carefully crafted goal

0:06:34.521,0:06:36.648
when the path to achieve it is clear.

0:06:36.989,0:06:39.807
In fact, the role of the hero announcement

0:06:39.831,0:06:42.228
is to set the stage for the big win.

0:06:42.252,0:06:44.852
Hero announcements are full of triumph.

0:06:46.112,0:06:49.096
Interdependent leaders, on the other hand,

0:06:49.120,0:06:50.938
want other people to help them,

0:06:50.962,0:06:55.958
so their announcements are often[br]an invitation for cocreation,

0:06:55.982,0:06:58.582
and sometimes, they're a call for help.

0:06:59.911,0:07:03.307
At the North American division[br]of the French food company Danone

0:07:03.331,0:07:06.465
I announced that we wanted[br]to become a B Corp.

0:07:06.847,0:07:08.498
And unlike pink-suit day,

0:07:08.522,0:07:10.743
I had no plan to get there.

0:07:12.069,0:07:14.514
I remember the day really clearly.

0:07:14.538,0:07:16.855
Everybody in the room gasped,

0:07:16.879,0:07:19.546
because they knew we didn't have a plan.

0:07:20.549,0:07:25.022
But they also knew[br]that we had seen our role

0:07:25.046,0:07:27.958
in the river that is the food system

0:07:27.982,0:07:30.049
and we wanted to make a change.

0:07:30.760,0:07:33.595
Making that declaration without a plan

0:07:33.619,0:07:36.318
meant that so many[br]young people in our company

0:07:36.342,0:07:38.294
stepped up to help us

0:07:38.318,0:07:42.216
and B Corps around us all rallied around.

0:07:42.556,0:07:44.434
And the day we became a B Corp

0:07:44.458,0:07:48.910
wasn't just a self-congratulatory[br]moment of a hero company.

0:07:48.934,0:07:52.037
It was more like a community celebration.

0:07:53.748,0:07:57.160
Now, when you gave goals[br]that you can't achieve alone,

0:07:57.184,0:07:59.716
and you've told everyone about them,

0:07:59.740,0:08:04.141
inevitably you'll end up[br]at the third big difference,

0:08:04.165,0:08:06.260
which is how you see other people,

0:08:06.284,0:08:08.886
inside your company and outside.

0:08:10.998,0:08:15.363
Heroes see everyone[br]as a competitor or a follower.

0:08:16.736,0:08:18.688
Heroes don't want input,

0:08:18.712,0:08:22.069
because they want to control everything[br]because they want the credit.

0:08:22.673,0:08:26.029
And you can see this[br]in a typical hero meeting.

0:08:26.617,0:08:28.484
Heroes like making speeches.

0:08:29.752,0:08:32.966
People lean back in their chairs,

0:08:32.990,0:08:35.934
maybe impressed, but not engaged.

0:08:36.911,0:08:38.926
Interdependent leaders, on the other hand,

0:08:38.950,0:08:41.437
understand that they need other people.

0:08:41.461,0:08:45.342
They know that meetings[br]are not just mindless calendar fillers.

0:08:45.366,0:08:47.842
These are the most precious[br]things you have.

0:08:47.866,0:08:50.357
It's where people collaborate[br]and communicate

0:08:50.381,0:08:51.984
and share ideas.

0:08:52.458,0:08:55.315
People lean forward in meetings like this,

0:08:55.339,0:08:57.606
wondering where they might fit in.

0:09:00.482,0:09:02.545
When I was in Shanghai in China,

0:09:02.569,0:09:05.862
where I lived for six years,[br]running the Kraft Foods business,

0:09:05.886,0:09:09.600
selling, amongst[br]other things, Oreo cookies,

0:09:09.624,0:09:11.958
we had a problem with hero culture.

0:09:13.337,0:09:16.059
We kept on launching[br]new products that failed.

0:09:16.083,0:09:17.631
And we would find out afterwards

0:09:17.655,0:09:20.400
that everyone in the company[br]knew they were going to fail,

0:09:20.424,0:09:22.244
they just didn't feel free to tell us.

0:09:22.268,0:09:26.379
So we changed the way we ran our[br]innovation and planning meetings

0:09:26.403,0:09:27.934
in two important ways.

0:09:27.958,0:09:30.958
First of all, language[br]went back to Chinese.

0:09:31.351,0:09:34.422
Because even though[br]everyone spoke great English,

0:09:34.446,0:09:37.026
when I was in the room[br]and the meeting was in English,

0:09:37.050,0:09:38.214
they focused on me.

0:09:38.238,0:09:40.311
And I was the foreigner[br]and I was the boss,

0:09:40.335,0:09:43.526
and I apparently had[br]that intimidating hero look.

0:09:44.321,0:09:45.606
The second thing

0:09:45.630,0:09:50.064
is we asked every single person[br]in the meeting their opinion.

0:09:50.765,0:09:54.086
And our understanding[br]of the subtleties of the differences

0:09:54.110,0:09:57.863
between American taste[br]and Chinese taste in this case

0:09:57.887,0:09:59.466
really improved.

0:09:59.490,0:10:02.424
And our new product success rate[br]radically turned around

0:10:02.448,0:10:04.353
and we launched a lot of winners,

0:10:04.377,0:10:08.224
including the now famous[br]green tea-flavored Oreos.

0:10:10.070,0:10:12.337
Hero culture sneaks in everywhere.

0:10:12.943,0:10:16.006
At Danone, we had a lot[br]of great stuff happening

0:10:16.030,0:10:17.854
in one part of the world,

0:10:17.878,0:10:20.768
and we wanted it to spread[br]to another part of the world.

0:10:21.482,0:10:24.058
But when you put a person in business gear

0:10:24.082,0:10:26.986
up in front of a group of people[br]with Power Point,

0:10:27.010,0:10:30.200
they have the urge[br]to become sort of heroic.

0:10:30.549,0:10:32.527
And they make everything[br]look super shiny

0:10:32.551,0:10:34.224
and they don't tell the truth.

0:10:34.248,0:10:37.629
And it's not compelling[br]and it's not even interesting.

0:10:38.110,0:10:39.896
So we changed it

0:10:39.920,0:10:43.141
and we created these[br]full-day market places,

0:10:43.165,0:10:44.899
kind of like a big bazaar.

0:10:45.292,0:10:47.316
And everybody was dressed up in costume,

0:10:47.340,0:10:49.659
some people a little, some people a lot.

0:10:49.683,0:10:51.977
And sellers had to man their stalls

0:10:52.001,0:10:55.048
and sell their ideas[br]as persuasively as possible,

0:10:55.072,0:10:58.855
and people who were convinced[br]bought them with fake check books.

0:10:58.879,0:11:01.367
Creating just a bit of silliness[br]with the environment

0:11:01.391,0:11:02.752
and a hat or a scarf

0:11:02.776,0:11:07.719
drops people's guard and causes[br]ideas to spread like wildfire.

0:11:08.243,0:11:09.777
There's no recipe here.

0:11:10.299,0:11:15.931
But time together has to be[br]carefully curated and created,

0:11:15.955,0:11:20.514
so that people know that[br]their time is valuable and important,

0:11:20.538,0:11:22.950
and they can bring[br]their best selves to the table.

0:11:25.071,0:11:27.871
Hero culture is present right here at TED.

0:11:28.705,0:11:33.210
This whole process makes it look like[br]I think I'm a hero.

0:11:34.157,0:11:36.188
So just in case there's any doubt

0:11:36.212,0:11:38.852
about the point that I'm trying to make,

0:11:38.876,0:11:41.185
I want to apply these ideas

0:11:41.209,0:11:44.056
in an area in which[br]I have zero credibility

0:11:44.080,0:11:45.796
and zero experience.

0:11:46.225,0:11:48.249
I'm originally South African,

0:11:48.273,0:11:51.323
and I'm deeply passionate[br]about wildlife conservation,

0:11:51.347,0:11:53.283
most particularly rhinos.

0:11:53.648,0:11:56.327
Those majestic creatures with big horns.

0:11:57.624,0:12:00.569
Every day, three rhinos are killed,

0:12:00.593,0:12:04.324
because there are people[br]who think that those horns are valuable.

0:12:04.680,0:12:06.884
Even though they're just made[br]of the same stuff

0:12:06.908,0:12:08.575
as hair and finger nails.

0:12:09.891,0:12:11.157
It breaks my heart.

0:12:13.106,0:12:15.915
Like all good, recovering heroes,

0:12:15.939,0:12:19.680
I did everything I could[br]to reduce this goal

0:12:19.704,0:12:22.304
to something that I could do by myself.

0:12:23.085,0:12:26.057
But clearly, stopping rhino poaching

0:12:26.081,0:12:28.015
is a goal way too big for me.

0:12:28.530,0:12:31.585
So I'm immediately[br]in interdependence land.

0:12:32.760,0:12:35.656
I'm declaring my goal on this stage.

0:12:36.252,0:12:38.863
I found other people[br]as passionate as I am

0:12:38.887,0:12:40.895
and I've asked if I could join them.

0:12:40.919,0:12:43.307
And after today, there may be more.

0:12:43.331,0:12:46.741
And we're now in the complex[br]but inspiring process

0:12:46.765,0:12:48.704
of learning how to work together.

0:12:49.046,0:12:52.268
My dream is that one day[br]someone will stand on this stage

0:12:52.292,0:12:57.053
and tell you how radical interdependence[br]saved my beloved rhinos.

0:12:58.442,0:13:00.638
Why does hero culture persist

0:13:00.662,0:13:03.062
and why don't we work together more?

0:13:03.784,0:13:05.903
Well, I don't know[br]why everyone else does it,

0:13:05.927,0:13:08.060
but I can tell you why I did it.

0:13:08.496,0:13:11.987
Interdependence is a lot harder[br]than being a hero.

0:13:12.694,0:13:14.448
It requires us to be open

0:13:14.472,0:13:16.250
and transparent and vulnerable

0:13:16.274,0:13:19.884
and that's not what traditional leaders[br]have been trained to do.

0:13:21.048,0:13:23.848
I thought being a hero would keep me safe.

0:13:25.056,0:13:27.119
I thought that in the elevation

0:13:27.143,0:13:30.315
and separation that comes[br]from heroic leadership,

0:13:30.339,0:13:32.815
that I would be untouchable.

0:13:34.228,0:13:35.561
This is an illusion.

0:13:36.776,0:13:40.823
The joy and success that comes[br]from interdependence and vulnerability

0:13:40.847,0:13:42.980
is worth the effort and the risk.

0:13:44.339,0:13:46.434
And if we're going to solve the challenges

0:13:46.458,0:13:48.116
that the world is facing today,

0:13:48.140,0:13:49.748
we have no alternative,

0:13:49.772,0:13:52.572
so we had better start getting good at it.

0:13:53.532,0:13:54.682
Thank you.

0:13:54.706,0:13:59.500
(Applause)