0:00:00.785,0:00:03.258
So I am a surgeon who studies creativity,

0:00:03.282,0:00:06.110
and I have never had a patient tell me,

0:00:06.134,0:00:08.976
"I really want you[br]to be creative during surgery,"

0:00:09.000,0:00:12.119
and so I guess[br]there's a little bit of irony to it.

0:00:12.143,0:00:15.443
I will say though that,[br]after having done surgery a lot,

0:00:15.467,0:00:17.677
it's similar to playing[br]a musical instrument.

0:00:17.701,0:00:20.531
And for me, this deep[br]and enduring fascination with sound

0:00:20.555,0:00:22.297
is what led me to both be a surgeon

0:00:22.321,0:00:24.855
and to study the science[br]of sound, particularly music.

0:00:24.879,0:00:26.928
I'm going to talk[br]over the next few minutes

0:00:26.952,0:00:28.243
about my career

0:00:28.267,0:00:30.551
in terms of how I'm able to study music

0:00:30.575,0:00:32.609
and try to grapple[br]with all these questions

0:00:32.633,0:00:34.976
of how the brain is able to be creative.

0:00:35.000,0:00:37.630
I've done most of this work[br]at Johns Hopkins University,

0:00:37.654,0:00:40.639
and at the National Institute[br]of Health where I was previously.

0:00:40.663,0:00:44.170
I'll go over some science experiments[br]and cover three musical experiments.

0:00:44.194,0:00:46.250
I will start off by playing[br]a video for you.

0:00:46.274,0:00:49.377
This video is of Keith Jarrett,[br]who's a well-known jazz improviser

0:00:49.401,0:00:51.845
and probably the most[br]well-known, iconic example

0:00:51.869,0:00:54.362
of someone who takes improvisation[br]to a higher level.

0:00:54.386,0:00:57.525
And he'll improvise entire concerts[br]off the top of his head,

0:00:57.549,0:00:59.954
and he'll never play it[br]exactly the same way again,

0:00:59.978,0:01:01.963
so as a form of intense creativity,

0:01:01.987,0:01:03.605
I think this is a great example.

0:01:03.629,0:01:05.976
And so why don't we go[br]and click the video.

0:01:06.000,0:01:10.000
(Music)

0:02:01.795,0:02:03.796
(End of music)

0:02:03.820,0:02:06.159
It's really a remarkable[br]thing that happens there.

0:02:06.183,0:02:07.911
I've always as a listener, as a fan,

0:02:07.935,0:02:09.652
I listen to that, and I'm astounded.

0:02:09.676,0:02:11.412
I think -- how can this possibly be?

0:02:11.436,0:02:13.727
How can the brain generate[br]that much information,

0:02:13.751,0:02:15.336
that much music, spontaneously?

0:02:15.360,0:02:17.976
And so I set out[br]with this concept, scientifically,

0:02:18.000,0:02:22.351
that artistic creativity,[br]it's magical, but it's not magic,

0:02:22.375,0:02:24.382
meaning that it's a product of the brain.

0:02:24.406,0:02:26.840
There's not too many brain-dead[br]people creating art.

0:02:26.864,0:02:30.495
With this notion that artistic creativity[br]is in fact a neurologic product,

0:02:30.519,0:02:32.976
I took this thesis that we could study it

0:02:33.000,0:02:36.114
just like we study any other[br]complex neurologic process,

0:02:36.138,0:02:38.193
and there are subquestions[br]that I put there.

0:02:38.217,0:02:40.603
Is it possible to study[br]creativity scientifically?

0:02:40.627,0:02:42.664
And I think that's a good question.

0:02:42.688,0:02:45.374
And I'll tell you that most[br]scientific studies of music,

0:02:45.398,0:02:46.916
they're very dense,

0:02:46.940,0:02:48.335
and when you go through them,

0:02:48.359,0:02:50.429
it's very hard to recognize[br]the music in it.

0:02:50.453,0:02:52.672
In fact, they seem to be[br]unmusical entirely

0:02:52.696,0:02:54.490
and to miss the point of the music.

0:02:54.514,0:02:56.070
This brings the second question:

0:02:56.094,0:02:57.976
Why should scientists study creativity?

0:02:58.000,0:03:00.079
Maybe we're not the right people to do it.

0:03:00.103,0:03:01.102
(Laughter)

0:03:01.126,0:03:04.578
Well it may be, but I will say that,[br]from a scientific perspective,

0:03:04.602,0:03:06.620
we talked a lot about innovation today,

0:03:06.644,0:03:07.976
the science of innovation,

0:03:08.000,0:03:10.953
how much we understand[br]about how the brain is able to innovate

0:03:10.977,0:03:12.221
is in its infancy,

0:03:12.245,0:03:15.712
and truly, we know very little[br]about how we are able to be creative.

0:03:15.736,0:03:17.260
I think that we're going to see,

0:03:17.284,0:03:18.976
over the next 10, 20, 30 years,

0:03:19.000,0:03:21.171
a real science of creativity[br]that's burgeoning

0:03:21.195,0:03:22.396
and is going to flourish,

0:03:22.420,0:03:24.852
Because we now have new methods[br]that can enable us

0:03:24.876,0:03:27.400
to take this process[br]like complex jazz improvisation,

0:03:27.424,0:03:28.798
and study it rigorously.

0:03:28.822,0:03:30.969
So it gets down to the brain.

0:03:30.993,0:03:32.787
All of us have this remarkable brain,

0:03:32.811,0:03:35.266
which is poorly understood,[br]to say the least.

0:03:35.290,0:03:39.488
I think that neuroscientists[br]have more questions than answers,

0:03:39.512,0:03:41.714
and I'm not going[br]to give you answers today,

0:03:41.738,0:03:43.099
just ask a lot of questions.

0:03:43.123,0:03:44.630
And that's what I do in my lab.

0:03:44.654,0:03:47.968
I ask questions about what is the brain[br]doing to enable us to do this.

0:03:47.992,0:03:50.769
This is the main method that I use.[br]This is functional MRI.

0:03:50.793,0:03:53.516
If you've been in an MRI scanner,[br]it's very much the same,

0:03:53.540,0:03:57.455
but this one is outfitted in a special way[br]to not just take pictures of your brain,

0:03:57.479,0:04:00.406
but to also take pictures[br]of active areas of the brain.

0:04:00.430,0:04:02.335
The way that's done is by the following:

0:04:02.359,0:04:04.169
There's something called BOLD imaging,

0:04:04.193,0:04:06.592
which is Blood Oxygen[br]Level Dependent imaging.

0:04:07.281,0:04:09.866
When you're in an fMRI scanner,[br]you're in a big magnet

0:04:09.890,0:04:12.263
that's aligning your molecules[br]in certain areas.

0:04:12.287,0:04:16.006
When an area of the brain is active,[br]meaning a neural area is active,

0:04:16.030,0:04:18.268
it gets blood flow shunted to that area.

0:04:18.292,0:04:22.642
That blood flow causes an increase[br]in local blood to that area

0:04:22.666,0:04:25.649
with a deoxyhemoglobin[br]change in concentration.

0:04:25.673,0:04:27.828
Deoxyhemoglobin can be detected by MRI,

0:04:27.852,0:04:29.702
whereas oxyhemoglobin can't.

0:04:29.726,0:04:31.680
So through this method of inference --

0:04:31.704,0:04:34.246
and we're measuring blood flow,[br]not neural activity --

0:04:34.270,0:04:37.006
we say that an area of the brain[br]that's getting more blood

0:04:37.030,0:04:40.572
was active during a particular task,[br]and that's the crux of how fMRI works.

0:04:40.596,0:04:44.501
And it's been used since the '90s[br]to study really complex processes.

0:04:44.525,0:04:48.025
I'm going to review a study that I did,[br]which was jazz in an fMRI scanner.

0:04:48.049,0:04:50.552
It was done with a colleague,[br]Alan Braun, at the NIH.

0:04:50.576,0:04:52.976
This is a short video[br]of how we did this project.

0:04:53.000,0:04:55.781
(Video) Charles Limb: This is a plastic[br]MIDI piano keyboard

0:04:55.805,0:04:57.586
that we use for the jazz experiments.

0:04:57.610,0:04:59.663
And it's a 35-key keyboard

0:04:59.687,0:05:02.147
designed to fit both inside the scanner,

0:05:02.171,0:05:03.507
be magnetically safe,

0:05:03.531,0:05:07.373
have minimal interference[br]that would contribute to any artifact,

0:05:07.397,0:05:10.317
and have this cushion[br]so that it can rest on the players' legs

0:05:10.341,0:05:13.296
while they're lying down in the scanner,[br]playing on their back.

0:05:13.320,0:05:16.349
It works like this --[br]this doesn't actually produce any sound.

0:05:16.373,0:05:18.816
It sends out what's called[br]a MIDI signal --

0:05:18.840,0:05:20.889
or a Musical Instrument[br]Digital Interface --

0:05:20.913,0:05:23.574
through these wires into the box[br]and then the computer,

0:05:23.598,0:05:26.533
which then trigger[br]high-quality piano samples like this.

0:05:26.557,0:05:29.798
(Music)

0:05:33.049,0:05:36.803
(Music)

0:05:52.333,0:05:54.308
(Music ends)

0:05:54.332,0:05:55.976
OK, so it works.

0:05:56.000,0:05:57.976
And so through this piano keyboard,

0:05:58.000,0:06:00.743
we have the means to take[br]a musical process and study it.

0:06:00.767,0:06:03.694
So what do you do now that you have[br]this cool piano keyboard?

0:06:03.718,0:06:06.163
You can't just say,[br]"It's great we have a keyboard."

0:06:06.187,0:06:08.511
We have to come up[br]with a scientific experiment.

0:06:08.535,0:06:10.658
The experiment[br]really rests on the following:

0:06:10.929,0:06:14.573
What happens in the brain during something[br]that's memorized and over-learned,

0:06:14.597,0:06:16.752
and what happens in the brain[br]during something

0:06:16.776,0:06:19.050
that is spontaneously[br]generated, or improvised,

0:06:19.074,0:06:20.888
in a way that's matched motorically

0:06:20.912,0:06:23.757
and in terms of lower-level[br]sensory motor features?

0:06:23.781,0:06:26.376
I have here what we call the paradigms.

0:06:26.400,0:06:29.896
There's a scale paradigm, which is playing[br]a scale up and down, memorized,

0:06:29.920,0:06:31.654
then there's improvising on a scale,

0:06:31.678,0:06:33.715
quarter notes, metronome, right hand --

0:06:33.739,0:06:35.310
scientifically very safe,

0:06:35.334,0:06:37.207
but musically really boring.

0:06:37.231,0:06:40.202
Then there's the bottom one,[br]which is called the jazz paradigm.

0:06:40.226,0:06:42.630
So we brought professional[br]jazz players to the NIH,

0:06:42.654,0:06:45.607
and we had them memorize[br]this piece of music on the lower-left,

0:06:45.631,0:06:47.449
which is what you heard me playing --

0:06:47.473,0:06:49.966
and we had them improvise[br]to the same chord changes.

0:06:49.990,0:06:52.198
And if you can hit[br]that lower-right sound icon,

0:06:52.222,0:06:55.050
that's an example[br]of what was recorded in the scanner.

0:06:55.074,0:06:58.804
(Music)

0:07:19.804,0:07:21.805
(Music ends)

0:07:21.829,0:07:24.245
In the end, it's not the most[br]natural environment,

0:07:24.269,0:07:26.175
but they're able to play real music.

0:07:26.199,0:07:28.170
And I've listened to that solo 200 times,

0:07:28.194,0:07:29.371
and I still like it.

0:07:29.395,0:07:31.782
And the musicians[br]were comfortable in the end.

0:07:31.806,0:07:33.630
We first measured the number of notes.

0:07:33.654,0:07:36.311
Were they playing more notes[br]when they were improvising?

0:07:36.335,0:07:37.925
That was not what was going on.

0:07:37.949,0:07:39.934
And then we looked at the brain activity.

0:07:39.958,0:07:41.766
I will try to condense this for you.

0:07:41.790,0:07:45.270
These are contrast maps that are showing[br]subtractions between what changes

0:07:45.294,0:07:48.390
when you're improvising[br]vs. when you're doing something memorized.

0:07:48.414,0:07:51.199
In red is an area that's active[br]in the prefrontal cortex,

0:07:51.223,0:07:52.682
the frontal lobe of the brain,

0:07:52.706,0:07:54.885
and in blue is this area[br]that was deactivated.

0:07:54.909,0:07:57.785
So we had this focal area[br]called the medial prefrontal cortex

0:07:57.809,0:07:59.196
that went way up in activity.

0:07:59.220,0:08:02.450
We had this broad patch of area[br]called the lateral prefrontal cortex

0:08:02.474,0:08:03.999
that went way down in activity,

0:08:04.023,0:08:05.511
I'll summarize that for you.

0:08:05.535,0:08:07.643
These are multifunctional[br]areas of the brain,

0:08:07.667,0:08:09.822
these are not the jazz areas of the brain.

0:08:09.846,0:08:11.774
They do a whole host of things

0:08:11.798,0:08:13.657
that have to do with self-reflection,

0:08:13.681,0:08:16.041
introspection, working memory etc.

0:08:16.065,0:08:18.552
Really, consciousness is seated[br]in the frontal lobe.

0:08:18.576,0:08:20.610
But we have this combination

0:08:20.634,0:08:24.083
of an area that's thought to be involved[br]in self-monitoring, turning off,

0:08:24.107,0:08:26.570
and this area that's thought[br]to be autobiographical,

0:08:26.594,0:08:28.129
or self-expressive, turning on.

0:08:28.153,0:08:30.224
We think, at least in this preliminary --

0:08:30.248,0:08:33.001
it's one study; it's probably wrong,[br]but it's one study --

0:08:33.025,0:08:34.064
(Laughter)

0:08:34.088,0:08:36.819
we think that at least[br]a reasonable hypothesis

0:08:36.843,0:08:38.004
is that, to be creative,

0:08:38.028,0:08:40.904
you should have this weird dissociation[br]in your frontal lobe.

0:08:40.928,0:08:43.452
One area turns on,[br]and a big area shuts off,

0:08:43.476,0:08:46.414
so that you're not inhibited,[br]you're willing to make mistakes,

0:08:46.438,0:08:48.606
so that you're not constantly[br]shutting down

0:08:48.630,0:08:50.555
all of these new generative impulses.

0:08:50.579,0:08:54.024
Now a lot of people know that music[br]is not always a solo activity --

0:08:54.048,0:08:55.768
sometimes it's done communicatively.

0:08:55.792,0:08:56.976
The next question was:

0:08:57.000,0:08:59.572
What happens when musicians[br]are trading back and forth,

0:08:59.596,0:09:01.209
something called "trading fours,"

0:09:01.233,0:09:04.056
which is something they do[br]normally in a jazz experiment.

0:09:04.080,0:09:05.493
So this is a 12-bar blues,

0:09:05.517,0:09:07.626
and I've broken it[br]down into four-bar groups,

0:09:07.650,0:09:09.462
so you would know how you would trade.

0:09:09.486,0:09:11.772
We brought a musician[br]into the scanner, same way,

0:09:11.796,0:09:13.208
had them memorize this melody

0:09:13.232,0:09:15.798
then had another musician[br]out in the control room

0:09:15.822,0:09:17.791
trading back and forth interactively.

0:09:17.815,0:09:20.439
So this is a musician, Mike Pope,

0:09:20.463,0:09:23.549
one of the world's best bassists[br]and a fantastic piano player.

0:09:23.573,0:09:29.832
(Music)

0:09:29.856,0:09:32.222
He's now playing the piece[br]that we just saw

0:09:32.246,0:09:33.976
a little better than I wrote it.

0:09:34.000,0:09:35.766
(Video) CL: Mike, come on in.

0:09:35.790,0:09:37.560
Mike Pope: May the force be with you.

0:09:37.584,0:09:39.350
Nurse: Nothing in your pockets, Mike?

0:09:39.374,0:09:40.917
MP: No. Nothing's in my pockets.

0:09:50.577,0:09:53.355
CL: You have to have the right[br]attitude to agree to do it.

0:09:53.379,0:09:54.635
(Laughter)

0:09:54.659,0:09:56.474
It's kind of fun, actually.

0:09:56.498,0:09:58.097
(Music)

0:09:58.121,0:09:59.820
Now we're playing back and forth.

0:09:59.844,0:10:02.056
He's in there.[br]You can see his legs up there.

0:10:02.080,0:10:03.422
(Music)

0:10:03.446,0:10:06.636
And then I'm in the control room here,[br]playing back and forth.

0:10:06.660,0:10:13.660
(Music)

0:10:16.130,0:10:17.280
(Music ends)

0:10:18.000,0:10:21.344
(Video) Mike Pope:[br]This is a pretty good representation

0:10:21.368,0:10:23.152
of what it's like.

0:10:23.176,0:10:25.176
And it's good that it's not too quick.

0:10:25.200,0:10:27.779
The fact that we do it over and over again

0:10:27.803,0:10:31.073
lets you acclimate to your surroundings.

0:10:32.033,0:10:34.691
So the hardest thing for me[br]was the kinesthetic thing,

0:10:34.715,0:10:37.976
looking at my hands through two mirrors,

0:10:38.000,0:10:39.976
laying on my back,

0:10:40.000,0:10:42.678
and not able to move at all[br]except for my hand.

0:10:42.702,0:10:44.574
That was challenging.

0:10:44.598,0:10:45.748
But again --

0:10:46.952,0:10:49.738
there were moments, for sure --

0:10:49.762,0:10:50.763
(Laughter)

0:10:50.787,0:10:55.150
there were moments of real, honest-to-God[br]musical interplay, for sure.

0:10:55.786,0:10:57.788
CL: At this point,[br]I'll take a few moments.

0:10:57.812,0:10:59.693
So what you're seeing here --

0:10:59.717,0:11:01.794
and I'm doing a cardinal sin in science,

0:11:01.818,0:11:03.628
which is to show you preliminary data.

0:11:03.652,0:11:05.405
This is one subject's data.

0:11:05.429,0:11:07.176
This is, in fact, Mike Pope's data.

0:11:07.200,0:11:08.676
So what am I showing you here?

0:11:08.700,0:11:12.811
When he was trading fours with me,[br]improvising vs. memorized,

0:11:12.835,0:11:15.584
his language areas lit up,[br]his Broca's area,

0:11:15.608,0:11:17.670
in the inferior frontal gyrus on the left.

0:11:17.694,0:11:19.603
He had it also homologous on the right.

0:11:19.627,0:11:22.786
This is an area thought to be[br]involved in expressive communication.

0:11:22.810,0:11:24.938
This whole notion[br]that music is a language --

0:11:24.962,0:11:27.261
maybe there's a neurologic[br]basis to it after all,

0:11:27.285,0:11:30.639
and we can see it when two musicians[br]are having a musical conversation.

0:11:30.663,0:11:32.636
So we've done this on eight subjects now,

0:11:32.660,0:11:34.589
and we're getting all the data together,

0:11:34.613,0:11:37.438
hopefully we'll have something[br]to say about it meaningfully.

0:11:37.462,0:11:40.705
Now when I think about improvisation[br]and the language, what's next?

0:11:40.729,0:11:42.976
Rap, of course, rap -- freestyle.

0:11:43.000,0:11:45.747
I've always been fascinated by freestyle.

0:11:45.771,0:11:47.284
And let's play this video.

0:11:47.308,0:11:50.146
(Video) Mos Def: Brown skin I be,[br]standing five-ten I be

0:11:50.170,0:11:52.192
Rockin' it when I be, in your vicinity

0:11:52.216,0:11:55.236
Whole-style synergy, recognize symmetry

0:11:55.260,0:11:57.594
Go and try to injure me,[br]broke 'em down chemically

0:11:57.618,0:12:00.047
Ain't the number 10 MC,[br]talk about how been I be

0:12:00.071,0:12:02.469
Styled it like Kennedy,[br]late like a 10 to three

0:12:02.493,0:12:05.311
When I say when I be,[br]girls say bend that key cut

0:12:05.335,0:12:07.153
CL: So there's a lot of analogy

0:12:07.177,0:12:09.633
between what takes place[br]in freestyle rap and jazz.

0:12:09.657,0:12:12.574
There are a lot of correlates[br]between the two forms of music,

0:12:12.598,0:12:15.045
I think, in different time periods,[br]in lot of ways,

0:12:15.069,0:12:17.900
rap serves the same social function[br]that jazz used to serve.

0:12:17.924,0:12:19.817
So how do you study rap scientifically?

0:12:19.841,0:12:22.976
And my colleagues think I'm crazy,[br]but I think it's very viable.

0:12:23.000,0:12:24.227
This is what you do:

0:12:24.251,0:12:26.998
You have a freestyle artist come[br]and memorize a rap

0:12:27.022,0:12:28.243
that you write for them,

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that they've never heard before,[br]and then you have them freestyle.

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So I told my lab members[br]that I would rap for TED,

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and they said, "No, you won't."

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And then I thought --

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(Laughter)

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(Applause)

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But here's the thing.

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With this big screen,[br]you can all rap with me. OK?

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So what we had them do

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was memorize this lower-left[br]sound icon, please.

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This is the control condition.[br]This is what they memorized.

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Computer: Memory, thump.

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CL: Thump of the beat in a known repeat

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Rhythm and rhyme, they make me complete

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The climb is sublime when I'm on the mic

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Spittin' rhymes that hit you[br]like a lightning strike

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Computer: Search.

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CL: I search for the truth[br]in this eternal quest

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My passion's not fashion,[br]you can see how I'm dressed

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Psychopathic words in my head appear

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Whisper these lyrics only I can hear

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Computer: Art.

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CL: The art of discovering[br]and that which is hovering

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Inside the mind of those unconfined

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All of these words keep[br]pouring out like rain

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I need a mad scientist to check my brain

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Computer: Stop.

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(Applause)

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I guarantee you[br]that will never happen again.

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(Laughter)

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So now, what's great[br]about these free-stylers,

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they will get cued different words.

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They don't know what's coming,

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but they'll hear something off the cuff.

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Go hit that right sound icon,

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there will be cued three square words:[br]like, not and head.

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He doesn't know what's coming.[br]Computer: Like.

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Freestyler: I'm like some kind of

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extraterrestrial, celestial scene

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Back in the days, I used to sit[br]in pyramids and meditate

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With two microphones -- Computer: Head

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hovering over my head

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See if I could still listen,

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spittin' off the sound

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See what you grinning

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I teach the children[br]in the back of the classroom

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About the message of apocalyptical

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Computer: Not.

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Not really though,[br]'cause I've got to keep it simple

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instrumental

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Detrimental playing Super Mario

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boxes [unclear] hip hop

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Computer: Stop.

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CL: It's an incredible[br]thing that's taking place.

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It's doing something[br]neurologically remarkable.

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Whether or not you like[br]the music is irrelevant.

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Creatively speaking,[br]it's just a phenomenal thing.

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This is a short video[br]of how we do this in a scanner.

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[fMRI of Hip-Hop Rap]

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(Laughter)

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(Video) CL: We're here with Emmanuel.

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CL: That was recorded[br]in the scanner, by the way.

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(Video) CL: That's Emmanuel[br]in the scanner.

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He's just memorized a rhyme for us.

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[Control Condition Memorized Verses]

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Emmanuel: Top of the beat with no repeat

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Rhythm and rhyme make me complete

0:15:03.000,0:15:05.976
Climb is sublime when I'm on the mic

0:15:06.000,0:15:08.774
Spittin' rhymes that'll hit you[br]like a lightning strike

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Computer: Search.

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I search for the truth[br]in this eternal quest

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I'm passing on fashion;[br]you can see how I'm dressed

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CL: I'm going to stop that there;[br]so what do we see in his brain?

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This is four rappers' brains.

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And we do see language areas lighting up,

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but then, eyes closed --

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when you are freestyling vs. memorizing,

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you've got major visual areas lighting up.

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You've got major cerebellar activity,[br]which is involved in motor coordination.

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You have heightened brain activity[br]when you're doing a comparable task,

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when that one task is creative[br]and the other task is memorized.

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It's very preliminary,[br]but I think it's kind of cool.

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To conclude, we've got[br]a lot of questions to ask,

0:15:43.730,0:15:46.635
and like I said, we'll ask questions[br]here, not answer them.

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But we want to get at the root[br]of what is creative genius neurologically,

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and I think, with these methods,[br]we're getting close.

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And I think, hopefully[br]in the next 10, 20 years,

0:15:55.042,0:15:56.939
you'll see real, meaningful studies

0:15:56.963,0:15:59.976
that say science has to catch up to art,

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and maybe we're starting now to get there.

0:16:02.412,0:16:04.410
Thank you for your time, I appreciate it.

0:16:04.434,0:16:08.442
(Applause)