0:00:18.899,0:00:21.200 <v ->We are at, in the 21st century,</v> 0:00:21.200,0:00:23.720 at the head of an ever-expanding past 0:00:23.720,0:00:25.470 or an ever-expanding history. 0:00:29.000,0:00:31.640 We only move into the 21st century 0:00:31.640,0:00:33.640 on the foundation of things 0:00:33.640,0:00:36.650 that have been established long, long ago. 0:00:42.960,0:00:44.760 The principles that govern the way 0:00:44.760,0:00:48.440 visual representation works [br]are still the same principles 0:00:48.440,0:00:54.188 that governed the way they worked 500 years ago, a thousand years ago, two thousands years ago. 0:00:56.880,0:00:58.720 Makes perfect sense to me 0:00:58.720,0:01:02.360 to go back to the origins of these things 0:01:02.360,0:01:03.856 and pick up from there, 0:01:05.400,0:01:06.840 to take up the challenge, really, 0:01:06.840,0:01:10.520 to find another way to make [br]these things seem fresh, 0:01:10.520,0:01:11.987 even if they are not. 0:01:21.760,0:01:23.120 The painting "Many Mansions," 0:01:23.120,0:01:26.160 which I finished back in 1995, 0:01:26.160,0:01:31.194 it's very classical structure [br]that the imagery is hung on. 0:01:34.040,0:01:36.360 When I started out, the [br]artists that I really admired, 0:01:36.360,0:01:40.520 people like Jericho, that whole [br]genre of history painting, 0:01:40.520,0:01:42.440 that grand narrative style of painting 0:01:42.440,0:01:44.760 was something that I really [br]wanted to position my work 0:01:44.760,0:01:46.002 in relation to. 0:01:46.840,0:01:50.000 And so in order to achieve [br]a similar kind of authority 0:01:50.000,0:01:51.600 that those paintings had, 0:01:51.600,0:01:54.738 I had to adopt a similar structural format. 0:01:58.091,0:01:59.160 I think in general 0:01:59.160,0:02:01.400 the paintings have been really well received, 0:02:01.400,0:02:03.560 but there's a lingering controversy 0:02:03.560,0:02:07.120 around the sort of unequivocally black, 0:02:07.120,0:02:09.414 kind of emphatically black figures. 0:02:10.760,0:02:12.680 I wouldn't have done them if I didn't feel it, 0:02:12.680,0:02:17.680 but I tend to think having that extreme of color, 0:02:17.680,0:02:20.217 that kind of black, is amazingly beautiful. 0:02:22.600,0:02:23.928 And powerful. 0:02:34.600,0:02:37.880 The first painting I did was way back in 1980, 0:02:37.880,0:02:39.560 was a painting called "A Portrait of the Artist 0:02:39.560,0:02:41.600 as a Shadow of His Former Self." 0:02:41.600,0:02:46.120 and it was the first time [br]I had used this simplified, 0:02:46.120,0:02:49.400 kind of reductive representation [br]of a black figure. 0:02:49.400,0:02:50.800 And so that painting was the one 0:02:50.800,0:02:52.880 that established the black figure 0:02:52.880,0:02:55.141 as a mode of operating for me. 0:03:07.440,0:03:09.520 What I was thinking to do with my image 0:03:09.520,0:03:16.235 was to reclaim the image of [br]blackness as an emblem of power. 0:03:17.382,0:03:21.752 And I think it still functions [br]pretty much that same way. 0:03:29.760,0:03:44.360 (somber organ music) 0:03:44.360,0:03:45.520 I do a lot of different things, 0:03:45.520,0:03:47.680 but I don't find any of them incompatible, 0:03:47.680,0:03:50.000 because they all sort of reinforce each other. 0:03:52.925,0:03:56.912 It's like whether I'm using [br]film, video, or anything else, 0:03:57.240,0:03:59.480 either I'm working with a set of conventions 0:03:59.480,0:04:00.760 that have already been established, 0:04:00.760,0:04:02.600 or I'm working against a set of conventions 0:04:02.600,0:04:03.720 that have already been established, 0:04:03.720,0:04:05.440 but the primary source 0:04:05.440,0:04:07.840 of my ideas about visual representation 0:04:07.840,0:04:10.843 come from pictorial [br]representation through painting. 0:04:11.880,0:04:13.595 This light is actually going to sit 0:04:15.360,0:04:18.298 near here with a big sun on it. 0:04:18.960,0:04:22.692 (light switch clicks)[br]So it's gonna have its own light source. 0:04:24.920,0:04:26.301 Hi, can you give me a hand? 0:04:26.960,0:04:28.840 Because I want to push this back. 0:04:28.840,0:04:30.880 These houses actually are [br]part of a project I'm doing 0:04:30.880,0:04:32.600 for a show at the Columbus Museum, 0:04:32.600,0:04:34.309 entitled "Illusions of Eden." 0:04:35.280,0:04:38.312 The theme I've chosen to work [br]with is the theme of home, 0:04:39.040,0:04:41.134 and essentially staged it. 0:04:41.640,0:04:43.720 What I'm looking at, in a way, 0:04:43.720,0:04:48.080 is how impenetrable those places are 0:04:48.080,0:04:51.902 to people who are not on the inside. 0:04:52.520,0:04:57.720 The whole idea of us really being 0:04:57.720,0:05:00.000 in some ways obsessed at this point 0:05:00.000,0:05:01.800 with penetrating that wall, 0:05:03.080,0:05:05.760 finding out what other people are doing, 0:05:05.760,0:05:06.920 what's going on in their lives, 0:05:06.920,0:05:08.640 what's going on in their houses. 0:05:08.640,0:05:10.520 And is what's going on in their houses 0:05:10.520,0:05:13.144 what we expect to be there? 0:05:19.521,0:05:28.107 (train rattling) 0:05:38.520,0:05:41.555 This is, it's live, all the way live. 0:05:41.644,0:05:42.843 <v Guest>It is.</v>[br](overlapping chatter) 0:05:42.843,0:05:43.440 <v ->This is the Bruce household.</v> 0:05:43.440,0:05:47.154 <v Guest>Oh, yeah.</v>[br](overlapping chatter) 0:05:47.154,0:05:50.352 <v ->Oh!</v>[br](guests laughing) 0:05:50.352,0:05:52.464 <v Kerry>Somebody's got to [br]take up for your mother. 0:05:52.464,0:05:53.760 <v ->Yes.</v>[br]There we go. 0:05:53.760,0:05:55.280 But I didn't know it at first. 0:05:55.280,0:05:57.460 <v Guest>Now, Kerry, I don't have them.</v> 0:05:57.460,0:05:58.077 <v Guest>Go ahead. Go on.</v> 0:05:58.077,0:05:59.640 <v Kerry>That's a favorite.</v> 0:05:59.640,0:06:01.122 (Kerry laughing) 0:06:01.243,0:06:07.441 <v ->This was for my 74th birthday from Kerry,</v> 0:06:07.441,0:06:12.111 and it says, "What did you [br]get Super T for her birthday?" 0:06:12.111,0:06:15.080 You see how super I am? 0:06:15.080,0:06:16.920 Super T! 0:06:16.920,0:06:18.840 It says, "Lots of love." 0:06:18.840,0:06:21.240 "Lots of love," and I like that. 0:06:21.240,0:06:24.120 <v ->The defining experience I had</v> 0:06:24.120,0:06:25.920 that made me understand 0:06:25.920,0:06:28.040 that being an artist was what I wanted to be 0:06:28.680,0:06:31.280 was that my kindergarten teacher 0:06:31.280,0:06:35.320 kept a scrapbook of old photographs 0:06:35.320,0:06:36.760 she had clipped out of magazines, 0:06:36.760,0:06:40.440 Christmas cards, Valentines cards, you know, 0:06:41.240,0:06:43.440 all manner of greeting cards, advertisements, 0:06:43.440,0:06:46.120 and things like that, and she kept that scrapbook, 0:06:46.120,0:06:48.480 and it was something that she only made available 0:06:48.480,0:06:51.169 to the kid who was best behaved that day. 0:06:52.360,0:06:53.800 And if you were really well-behaved, 0:06:53.800,0:06:55.280 you got to look at that scrapbook 0:06:55.280,0:06:57.798 while everybody else took their nap after recess. 0:06:58.680,0:07:00.080 And it really was that book. 0:07:00.080,0:07:02.400 It's like the day I got a [br]chance to look at that book, 0:07:02.400,0:07:03.840 it really changed my life, 0:07:03.840,0:07:05.440 because I sat there looking at the book. 0:07:05.440,0:07:08.280 I mean, with tears in my eyes, 0:07:08.280,0:07:10.520 I mean, literally with tears in my eyes, 0:07:10.520,0:07:13.600 thinking that, "Wow, this is just so amazing, 0:07:13.600,0:07:15.080 and that's what I want to do. 0:07:15.080,0:07:16.720 I want to make pictures like these. 0:07:16.720,0:07:18.920 I want to make pictures that affect other people 0:07:18.920,0:07:20.800 the way these pictures are affecting me." 0:07:20.800,0:07:22.960 <v ->I don't have a date on this card,</v> 0:07:22.960,0:07:26.513 but it's an early collage, just says "beautiful," 0:07:27.440,0:07:29.520 and it has a black figure. 0:07:31.560,0:07:33.920 And I remember asking Kerry 0:07:33.920,0:07:35.880 did he mean to have that spot there. 0:07:35.880,0:07:37.200 But he did. 0:07:37.200,0:07:38.560 (all laughing) 0:07:38.560,0:07:43.000 And so that's how I began to understand 0:07:43.000,0:07:45.101 the many complexities. 0:07:59.440,0:08:02.400 <v ->When I was in junior high school,</v> 0:08:02.400,0:08:06.080 I got a summer scholarship to take a drawing class 0:08:06.080,0:08:07.594 at the Otis Art Institute. 0:08:09.160,0:08:11.800 The drawing teacher had a book 0:08:11.800,0:08:13.880 that he put on the opaque projector. 0:08:13.880,0:08:16.379 It was "Images of Dignity: The [br]Drawings of Charles White." 0:08:18.320,0:08:19.840 and he showed us those drawings, 0:08:19.840,0:08:23.080 and I had never seen anything like it before, 0:08:23.080,0:08:25.800 because prior to that, almost all of the artists 0:08:25.800,0:08:28.720 I had encountered in art [br]history books were European. 0:08:28.720,0:08:31.909 I thought, "Wow, this is just amazing." 0:08:32.880,0:08:33.640 He says, "Well, you know, 0:08:33.640,0:08:37.160 Charles White's got a studio upstairs." 0:08:37.160,0:08:39.800 And he said it was okay for [br]us to go into the studio 0:08:39.800,0:08:41.867 and see some work in progress. 0:08:43.102,0:08:45.000 You got to see the process. 0:08:45.840,0:08:48.800 You got to see how ugly a drawing can look 0:08:48.800,0:08:50.160 before it was brought to this point 0:08:50.160,0:08:52.132 of refinement and finish. 0:08:53.720,0:08:55.680 That was what was really interesting to me. 0:08:55.680,0:08:59.440 I mean, seeing these stages. 0:09:05.141,0:09:07.585 And then, yeah, that's... 0:09:07.585,0:09:09.145 (both laughing)[br]Let's see what happens. 0:09:09.145,0:09:12.692 <v Student>Are you sure?</v>[br]Well, you got nothing to lose. 0:09:12.692,0:09:14.560 <v Artist>The initial images, [br]the underlaying images 0:09:14.560,0:09:18.440 all come from photographs of my family in Cuba. 0:09:19.160,0:09:25.060 They start at about '38 and [br]go right up to the revolution. 0:09:25.060,0:09:27.400 <v Kerry>How do you intend now to incorporate</v> 0:09:27.400,0:09:28.480 the present moment? 0:09:28.480,0:09:29.360 Is that important at all? 0:09:29.360,0:09:30.727 <v ->That's a good question.</v> 0:09:31.720,0:09:32.680 Probably a dumb thing to say, 0:09:32.680,0:09:35.000 but I hadn't really thought [br]that all the way through yet. 0:09:35.000,0:09:36.600 <v ->That's not a dumb thing to say,</v> 0:09:36.600,0:09:37.880 but it's just the kinds of questions 0:09:37.880,0:09:40.040 I would be interested in asking 0:09:40.040,0:09:43.440 and hearing some reflection on. 0:09:48.920,0:09:50.960 Part of what I'm always interested in seeing 0:09:50.960,0:09:52.200 when I come to the museum 0:09:52.200,0:09:56.160 is not really how refined or [br]how finished a work can be, 0:09:56.160,0:09:57.820 but I'm really interested in showing, 0:09:58.680,0:10:00.000 especially to my students, 0:10:00.880,0:10:03.040 evidence of the artists' thinking 0:10:03.040,0:10:05.470 and evidence of the artists' process. 0:10:09.000,0:10:11.400 Some of what's evident in a painting like this, 0:10:11.400,0:10:13.640 an unfinished painting, is that it always, 0:10:13.640,0:10:18.699 it reminds me of just how [br]difficult making a painting is. 0:10:23.200,0:10:26.920 It confirms the suspicion that I always had 0:10:26.920,0:10:29.320 that these things don't come [br]into existence by magic. 0:10:35.000,0:10:39.400 I'm gonna take this out, partly because, 0:10:39.400,0:10:42.080 when you're thinking about the [br]way to organize the painting, 0:10:42.080,0:10:43.520 there's some structural considerations 0:10:43.520,0:10:45.880 you have to keep in mind. 0:10:45.880,0:10:48.291 This is definitely the kinds [br]of images you're working with. 0:10:49.173,0:10:51.729 They will actually tell you [br]how to make your painting. 0:10:54.840,0:10:58.880 This is essentially how I work on my stuff. 0:10:58.880,0:11:00.960 I'm always referring to some other source 0:11:00.960,0:11:04.000 to give me some clues to how things in my own work 0:11:04.000,0:11:07.201 can be organized better. 0:11:26.320,0:11:29.680 Well, what I'm doing right now is actually 0:11:29.680,0:11:34.160 I'm actually doing a comic strip in newspaper form 0:11:34.160,0:11:36.680 that I could use for a particular installation 0:11:36.680,0:11:37.634 at the Carnegie. 0:11:40.480,0:11:45.520 What I hit on as a subject was this idea 0:11:45.520,0:11:47.840 that when you go to the [br]museums to see African art, 0:11:47.840,0:11:50.240 those symbolic representations 0:11:50.240,0:11:52.640 of the heroes seem pretty inert. 0:11:52.640,0:11:55.000 The tradition from which they come 0:11:55.000,0:11:57.840 doesn't have the same kind of currency 0:11:57.840,0:12:03.360 that the tradition of Greek [br]mythological heroes has, 0:12:03.360,0:12:06.774 although there are parallels [br]between those two traditions. 0:12:08.760,0:12:10.280 And so I thought what I would do 0:12:10.280,0:12:13.320 would be to take those African sculptures 0:12:13.320,0:12:16.000 and re-animate them, in a sense, 0:12:16.000,0:12:18.168 And make them into the super heroes 0:12:19.448,0:12:21.660 to become like a new Luke Skywalker 0:12:21.660,0:12:26.098 or a new Darth Vader or a [br]new Batman or a new Superman. 0:12:27.400,0:12:30.880 Now, when I was growing up reading Marvel comics, 0:12:32.520,0:12:35.720 the X-Men, the mighty Hulk, Spider-Man, 0:12:35.720,0:12:39.080 all of those characters were [br]amazing characters to me. 0:12:39.080,0:12:40.400 And so what I'm actually doing 0:12:40.400,0:12:43.247 is kind of reverting back [br]to my childhood, I guess. 0:12:48.520,0:12:51.040 I thought what I would do with this project 0:12:51.040,0:12:53.450 was to take a form that's in some ways 0:12:53.450,0:12:55.951 already undervalued in America, 0:12:57.120,0:12:59.856 take a subject that's under-represented 0:13:01.040,0:13:02.360 and try to find a way in which 0:13:02.360,0:13:04.720 we can carry these traditions into the future 0:13:04.720,0:13:08.882 so that they don't have to just dissipate and die.