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Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:14.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34C3 preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.49,0:00:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald angel: Today two people from privacy\Ninternational, one is Eva Blum--Dumontet
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.94,0:00:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's a research officer working on data\Nexploitation especially in the global
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.35,0:00:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,south and Millie Wood who's a lawyer and\Nis fighting against spy agencies and
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.75,0:00:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before that she fought seven years against\Npolice cases and they're gonna be talking
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.07,0:00:46.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about policing in the the age of data\Nexploitation. Give them a warm welcome.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.34,0:00:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.24,0:00:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Millie Wood: Hi I'm Millie as was just said I've been
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.44,0:01:02.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at privacy international for two years\Nworking as a lawyer before that I spent
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.44,0:01:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seven years bringing cases against the\Npolice and what increasingly concerns me
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.32,0:01:14.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on these experiences is a lack of\Nunderstanding of what tactics are being
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.13,0:01:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used by the police today and what legal\Nbasis they are doing this on. The lack of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.00,0:01:26.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transparency undermines the ability of\Nactivists lawyers and technologists to
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.78,0:01:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,challenge the police tactics and whilst\NI'm sure a lot of you have a broad
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.48,0:01:36.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,awareness of the technology that the\Npolice can use I don't think this is
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.99,0:01:43.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enough and we need to know what specific\Npolice forces are using against
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.39,0:01:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individuals. The reason why is that when\Nyou're arrested you need to know what
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.48,0:01:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disclosure to ask for in order to prove\Nyour innocence. Your lawyers need to know
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.81,0:02:03.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what expert evidence to ask for in order\Nto defend their client. And increasingly
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.01,0:02:08.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as there are invisible ways or seemingly\Ninvisible for the police to monitor a scale
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.95,0:02:14.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need to know that there are effective\Nlegal safeguards. Now those who are
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.01,0:02:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,affected are not just the guilty or those\Nwho understand technology they include
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.72,0:02:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pensioners such as John Cat a 90 year old\Nman who's a peace protester and he's a
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.73,0:02:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,law-abiding citizen no criminal record and\Nyet he is on the UK domestic extremism
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.26,0:02:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,database and listed here are some of the\Nentries: He took his sketchpad and made
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.98,0:02:50.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drawings, he's clean shaven, and he was\Nholding a board with orange people on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.22,0:02:56.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is the kind of people that they\Nare surveilling. John's case exposes
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.02,0:03:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unlawful actions by the police but these\Nactions date back to 2005 to 2009 as far
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.80,0:03:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I'm aware there are no cases\Nchallenging modern police tactics and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.17,0:03:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privacy international in the UK and with\Nour partners throughout the world are
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.88,0:03:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,increasingly concerned at the pace this is\Ndeveloping unobstructed because people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.52,0:03:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know what's going on, and so we've\Nstarted in the UK to try and uncover some
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.48,0:03:34.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the police tactics using Freedom of\NInformation requests. These laws should be
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.18,0:03:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,available throughout Europe and we want to\Nmake similar requests in other countries
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.48,0:03:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hopefully with some of you. So now I'm\Ngoing to hand over to my colleague Eva who
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.45,0:03:47.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will talk a bit about privacy\Ninternational, some of the tactics we know
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.86,0:03:52.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the police are using, and then we'll speak\Nabout some of the things that we found out
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.03,0:03:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through our initial research.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.57,0:03:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.53,0:04:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you so, I'm just going to tell you a\Nlittle bit more about Privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.92,0:04:07.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International for those of you who don't\Nknow this organization. We are based in
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.15,0:04:11.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,London and we fight against surveillance\Nand defend the right to privacy across the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.47,0:04:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world. Basically, essentially what we're\Ndoing is that we do litigation, we conduct
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.52,0:04:21.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,research, and we carry out advocacy\Nincluding at the United Nations, we
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.35,0:04:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,develop policies on issues that are\Ndefining modern rights. Now, our work
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.83,0:04:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ranges from litigations against\Nintelligence services to a wide range of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.90,0:04:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reports on issues such as connected cars,\Nsmart cities, and FinTech. We've recently
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.88,0:04:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,published an investigation on the role of\Ncompanies like Cambridge Analytica and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.61,0:04:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Harris Media and their role in the latest\NKenyan elections. With our network of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.99,0:04:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partner organisations across the world we\Nadvocate for stronger privacy protection
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.47,0:04:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the law and technology and stronger\Nsafeguards against surveillance. Now we
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.16,0:05:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk about data exploitation and it's\Nactually the title of the talk so what do
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.08,0:05:10.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we mean by that? The concept of data\Nexploitation emerges from our concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.38,0:05:15.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the industry and governments are\Nbuilding a world that prioritize the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.72,0:05:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploitation of all data. We observe three\Nprevailing trends in data exploitation.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.65,0:05:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is the excessive data that's generated\Nbeyond our control. The second one is the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.00,0:05:34.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact that this data is processed in a way\Nwe cannot understand or influence and the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.14,0:05:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lack of transparency around it. The last\None is, that at the moment this data is
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.53,0:05:44.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used to disadvantage us the ones who are\Nproducing this data and it's further
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.69,0:05:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,empowering the already powerful. We hardly\Ncontrol the data anymore that's generated
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.27,0:05:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from phones or in our computers, but now\Nin the world we live in data just don't
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.29,0:06:00.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come just from our phones or computers. It\Ncomes from the cars we're driving, it
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.13,0:06:05.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes from our payment systems, from the\Ncities we live in. This is all generating
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.97,0:06:12.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data and this data is used by other\Nentities to make assumptions about us and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.77,0:06:18.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take decisions that eventually influence\Nour lives. Are we entitled to a loan? Do
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.45,0:06:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we qualify for affordable insurance?\NShould we be sent to jail or set free? Who
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.06,0:06:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be arrested? This is at the core of\Nthe world that we're building around data
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.13,0:06:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploitation. The question of power\Nimbalance between those who have the data
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.63,0:06:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who gets to make decisions based on\Nthis data and those who are producing the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.49,0:06:50.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data and losing control over it. Now what\Nis policing have to do with data, what
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.18,0:06:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does data exploitation have to do with\Npolicing? The police has always been
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.02,0:07:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually using data in the past. To give\Nyou one example in 1980 a transit police
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.62,0:07:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officer named Jack Maple, developed a\Nproject called chart of the future, this
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.53,0:07:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is how he described it: "I call them the\Nchart of the future. On 55 feet of wall
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.48,0:07:20.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,space, I mapped every train station in New\NYork City and every train. Then I used
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.74,0:07:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crayons to mark every violent crime,\Nrobbery, and grand larceny that occurred.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.34,0:07:33.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mapped the solved versus the unsolved".\NNow the system was used by the Transit
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.25,0:07:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Police and it was credited with reducing\Nfelonies by 27% and robberies by 1/3
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.11,0:07:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between 1990 and 1992. So this generated a\Nlot of interest in his projects and former
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.28,0:07:56.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani asked the\NNew York police department to essentially
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.04,0:08:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take up chart of the future and develop\Ntheir own project. It became CompStat.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.48,0:08:10.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CompStat was again essentially about\Nmapping crime to try and make assumptions
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.36,0:08:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about where crime wars are happening. So\Nthis kind of shows the building of this
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.36,0:08:25.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,narrative around this idea that the more\Ndata you have, the more data you generate,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.57,0:08:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the better you will be at reducing crime.\NNow it becomes interesting in the world we
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.78,0:08:36.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,live in that we describe, where we are\Nconstantly generating data, often without
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.38,0:08:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the consent or even the knowledge of those\Nwho are producing this data. So there are
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.06,0:08:48.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,new questions to be asked: What data is\Nthe police entitled to access? What can
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.34,0:08:54.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they do with it? Are we all becoming\Nsuspects by default? One of the key
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.49,0:09:00.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,elements of the intersection between data\Nexploitation and policing is the question
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.45,0:09:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of smart cities. It's worth bearing in\Nmind that data-driven policing is often
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.12,0:09:12.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,referred to as smart policing, so obviously\Nthe word smart has been used generally in
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.03,0:09:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a generic manner by various industry to\Nkind of describe this trend of using mass
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.70,0:09:26.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data collection in order to provide new\Nservices. But there is actually a real and
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.69,0:09:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genuine connection between smart cities\Nand data-driven policing. The first reason
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.67,0:09:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that is that actually one of the main\Nreasons for cities to invest in smart city
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.71,0:09:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,infrastructure is actually the question of\Nsecurity. This is something we've explored
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.91,0:09:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our latest report on smart cities and\Nthis is emerging also from the work we're
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.32,0:10:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing other organizations including coding\Nrights in Brazil and DRF in Pakistan. So
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.89,0:10:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually Brazil is an interesting example,\Nbecause before the mega events they
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.01,0:10:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,started organizing like the football\NWorld Cup and the Olympics they invested
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.35,0:10:16.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,massively in smart city infrastructure.\NIncluding projects with IBM and precisely
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.85,0:10:20.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the purpose of what they were trying to\Nachieve with their smart city
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.25,0:10:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,infrastructure, was making the city safer\Nso it was extremely strongly connected
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.85,0:10:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the police. So this is a picture for\Nexample of the control room that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.42,0:10:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was built to control CCTV cameras and to\Ncreate graphs in order to showcase where
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.11,0:10:45.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crime was happening and also in a way the\Nlikeliness of natural disasters in some
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.86,0:10:51.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,areas. In Pakistan there is a whole new\Nprogram on investment of smart cities,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.65,0:10:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is actually referred to as the safe\Ncity project. Now companies understand
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.80,0:11:05.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that very well and this is actually an\Nimage from an IBM presentation describing
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.25,0:11:11.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their vision of smart cities. And as you\Nsee like policing that is very much
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.19,0:11:16.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,integrated into their vision, their\Nheavily centralized vision of what smart
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.79,0:11:22.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cities are. So that's no wonder that\Ncompanies that offer smart city
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.83,0:11:28.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,infrastructure are actually now also\Noffering a platform for policing. So those
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.38,0:11:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies include IBM as I mentioned but\Nalso Oracle and Microsoft. We see in many
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.82,0:11:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,countries including the UK where we based\Nsome pressure on budgets and budget
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.60,0:11:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reductions for the police and so there is\Na very strong appeal with this narrative,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.38,0:11:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can purchase platform you can\Ngather more data that will help you do
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.12,0:11:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policing in less time and do it more\Nefficiently. But little thought is given
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.11,0:12:03.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the impact on society, or right to\Nprivacy and what happens if someone
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.23,0:12:13.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unexpected take the reins of power. Now\Nwe're gonna briefly explain what data-
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.44,0:12:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,driven policing looks like, and eventually\NMillie will look at our findings. So
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.50,0:12:26.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first thing I wanted to discuss is\Nactually predictive policing, because
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.34,0:12:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's often something we think of and\Ntalked about when we think about data-
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.74,0:12:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,driven policing. I mentioned CompStat\Nbefore and essentially predictive policing
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.76,0:12:43.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works on a similar premise. The idea is\Nthat if you map where crime happens you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.32,0:12:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can eventually guess where the next crime\Nwill happen. So the key player in
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.86,0:12:54.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing is this company called\NPREDPOL, I mean I think they describe
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.99,0:12:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pretty much what they do, they use\Nartificial intelligence to help you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.23,0:13:06.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prevent crime, right, predicting when and\Nwhere crime will most likely occur. Now
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.25,0:13:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PREDPOL and other companies using\Nsomething called a Hawkes process that's
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.93,0:13:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used normally for the prediction of\Nearthquake tremors, so what Hawkes
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.02,0:13:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,originally did is that he was analyzing\Nhow after an earthquake you have after
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.27,0:13:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shakes and usually the after shakes tend\Nto happen where the original earthquake
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.66,0:13:35.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happened and in a short period of time\Nafter that. So the Hawkes process basically
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.94,0:13:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is described as when a certain event\Nhappens, other events of the same kind will
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.91,0:13:45.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen shortly after in the same in the\Nsame location. Now obviously it actually
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.47,0:13:50.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works quite well for earthquakes, whether\Nit works for crime is a lot more
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.79,0:13:56.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,questionable. But that's actually the\Npremise on which companies that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.29,0:14:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are offering predictive policing services\Nare relying. So basically applied to
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.12,0:14:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing the mantra is\Nmonitoring data on places where crime is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.73,0:14:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening you can identify geographic\Nhotspots where crime will most likely
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.31,0:14:20.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen again. Now other companies than\NPREDPOL are joining in and they are adding
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.82,0:14:26.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more data than just simply location of\Npast crimes. So this data has included
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.26,0:14:30.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,open source intelligence and we talked a\Nlittle bit more about this later on.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.63,0:14:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Weather report, census data, the location\Nof key landmarks like bars, churches,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.70,0:14:40.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,schools, data sporting events, and moon\Nphases. I'm not quite sure what they're
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.09,0:14:50.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing with moon phases but somehow that's\Nsomething they're using. When predictive
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.21,0:14:56.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policing first sort of emerged one of the\Nthe key concerns was whether our world was
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.18,0:15:00.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be turning into a Minority Report\Nkind of scenario where people are arrested
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.100,0:15:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before a crime is even committed and\Ncompanies like PREDPOL were quick to
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.49,0:15:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reassure people and say that do not\Nconcern about who will commit crime but
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.20,0:15:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where crimes are happening. Now that's not\Nactually true because in fact at the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.80,0:15:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,moment we see several programs emerging\Nespecially in the US, where police
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.10,0:15:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,departments are concerned not so much with\Nwhere crimes are happening, but who's
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.51,0:15:30.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committing it.,So I'm gonna talk about two\Nexample of this: One is the Kansas City No
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.92,0:15:37.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Violence Alliance, which is a program laid\Nby the local police to identify who will
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.85,0:15:42.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,become the next criminal - basically - and\Nthey're using an algorithm that combines
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.58,0:15:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data from traditional policing as well as\Nsocial media intelligence and information
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.19,0:15:53.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they have on drug use, based on this\Nthey create graphics generated using
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.57,0:16:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing to show how certain\Npeople are connected to already convicted
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.61,0:16:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criminals and gang members. Once they've\Nidentified these people they request
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.17,0:16:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meeting with them whether they've\Ncommitted crimes or not in the past. And
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.48,0:16:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would have a discussion about their\Nconnection to those convicted criminals
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.42,0:16:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and gang members and what they tell them\Nis that they are warned that if a crime
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.91,0:16:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,next happened within their network of\Npeople every person connected to this
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.11,0:16:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,network will be arrested whether or not\Nthey were actually involved in the crime
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.32,0:16:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being committed. Now there are actually\Ndozens of police departments that are
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.38,0:16:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using similar programs. The Chicago Police\NDepartment has an index of the 400 people
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.10,0:16:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most likely to be involved in violent\Ncrimes. That sounds like a BuzzFeed
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.36,0:16:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,article but actually there is a reality\Nwhich is extremely concerning, because
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.39,0:17:02.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those people who are in this list are for\Nthe most part not actual criminals, they
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.07,0:17:08.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are purely seen to be connected to people\Nwho've committed crime. So if your next-
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.02,0:17:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,door neighbor is a criminal then you may\Nwell find your name on that list. Now
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.68,0:17:21.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing is deceptive and\Nproblematic for several reasons: First of
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.48,0:17:26.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all there's the question of the\Npresumption of innocence. In a world where
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.52,0:17:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even before you commit a crime you can\Nfind your name on that list or be called
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.52,0:17:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the police - you know - what happens to\Nthis very basis of democracy which is the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.90,0:17:42.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presumption of the of innocence. But also\Nthere's the other question of like can we
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.53,0:17:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really use the math that was originally\Ndesigned for earthquakes and apply to
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.72,0:17:53.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,human beings because human beings don't\Nwork like earthquakes. They have their own
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.05,0:17:59.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set of biases and the biases\Nstart with how we collect the data. For
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.87,0:18:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,example, if the police is more likely to\Npolice areas where there is minorities,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.64,0:18:11.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people of color, then obviously the data\Nthey will have will be disproportionately
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.77,0:18:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,higher on persons of color. Likewise if\Nthey are unlikely to investigate white-
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.49,0:18:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collar crime they will be unlikely to have\Ndata that are reflecting a reality where
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.20,0:18:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crime also happens in wealthier areas. So\Nbasically we are inputting biased datasets
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.04,0:18:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that obviously will lead to biased\Nresults. And what these biased results
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.03,0:18:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean is that it will continue the already\Nexisting trend of over policing
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.60,0:18:48.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities of color and low-income\Ncommunities. I'll leave it to Millie for
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.44,0:18:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next box. So, one of the increasingly\Npopular technologies we're seeing in the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.67,0:19:00.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UK, and is no doubt used around the world\Nand probably at border points, although we
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.59,0:19:06.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need more help with the reasearch to prove\Nthis, is mobile phone extraction. The
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.45,0:19:10.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police can extract data from your phone,\Nyour laptop, and other devices which
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.68,0:19:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,results in a memory dump of the extracted\Ndata taken from your device and now held
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.43,0:19:23.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in an agency database. So for example all\Nyour photos, all your messages, and all
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.33,0:19:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those of people who had no idea they would\Nend up in a police database because
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.33,0:19:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're associated with you retained for\Nas long as the police wish. Now these
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.55,0:19:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devices are pretty user friendly for the\Npolice and if you're interested you can
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.60,0:19:42.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look on YouTube where Cellebrite one of\Nthe big players has lots of videos about
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.56,0:19:48.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how you can use them, and so depending on\Nthe device and the operating system some
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.93,0:19:54.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the data this is from a police document\Nbut it lists what they can extract using a
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.42,0:20:01.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cellebrite UFED is what you might expect:\Ndevice information, calls, messages,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.82,0:20:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,emails, social media, and Wi-Fi networks.\NBut if you look at their website and here
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.97,0:20:14.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are a few examples they can also collect:\Nsystem and deleted data, they can access
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.75,0:20:20.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cloud storage, and inaccessible partitions\Nof the device. Now this is data that is
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.58,0:20:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clearly beyond the average users control,\Nand as the volume of data we hold on our
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.49,0:20:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phones increases so will this list. And \Nthe companies we know the UK police are
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.75,0:20:39.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using, which includes: Cellebrite, Acceso,\NRadio Tactics, MSAB, are all aware of how
Dialogue: 0,0:20:39.06,0:20:44.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable this is and as one of them have\Nstated: "if you've got access to a person
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.75,0:20:50.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SIM card, you've got access to the whole\Nof a person's life". They also go on to
Dialogue: 0,0:20:50.50,0:20:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,note: "the sheer amount of data stored on\Nmobile phones is significantly greater
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.07,0:21:04.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today than ever before." There are also no\Ntemporal limits to the extraction of data,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.15,0:21:09.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is from another police document we\Nobtained and it shows that if you choose
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.15,0:21:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to extract to certain data type you will\Nobtain all data of a particular type, not
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.16,0:21:21.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just the data relevant to an\Ninvestigation. So all that data on a
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.28,0:21:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police database, indefinitely and even if\Nyou were asked whether you were happy for
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.43,0:21:32.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your data to be extracted during an\Ninvestigation I think it's highly unlikely
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.79,0:21:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you would realize the volume that the\Npolice were going to take. Other targets
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.63,0:21:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the police that we know about are:\Ninfotainment systems in cars, Smart TVs,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.18,0:21:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and connected devices in the home. This is\Nan extract from a tech UK report, where
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.23,0:21:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mark Stokes head of digital forensics at\Nthe Met Police which the police in London
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.70,0:22:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stated in January, that the crime scene of\Ntomorrow will be the Internet of Things
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.20,0:22:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and detectors of the future will carry a\Ndigital forensics toolkit that will help
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.45,0:22:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them analyze microchips and download data\Nat the scene rather than removing devices
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.02,0:22:20.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for testing. Now I can imagine that the\Nevidence storage room is going to get a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.08,0:22:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit full if they start dragging in\Nconnected fridges, hair dryers, hair
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.84,0:22:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brushes, your Google home, Amazon echo and\Nwhatever else you have. However, their
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.57,0:22:38.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plans to walk into your home and download\Neverything, make no mention of needing a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.24,0:22:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specific warrant and so the only\Nlimitations at the moment are the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.51,0:22:50.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protections that may exist on the devices.\NThe law does not protect us and this needs
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.22,0:22:59.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to change. So I'm going to be talking a\Nlittle bit about open source intelligence
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.41,0:23:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in particular social media\Nintelligence, because when I talked about
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.47,0:23:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing I identified those two\Nsources as some of the data that's being
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.83,0:23:17.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used for predictive policing. Now, open\Nsource intelligence is often thought as,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.47,0:23:23.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or often assumed to be innocuous, and\Nthere is the understanding that if
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.41,0:23:29.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information is publicly available then it\Nshould be fair for the police to use. Now
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.44,0:23:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the problem is that among open source\Nintelligence there's often social media
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.27,0:23:40.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence that we refer to as\Ndocuments. Now there are many ways to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:40.51,0:23:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conduct document and it can range from\Nlike the single police officer, who is
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.90,0:23:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just you know using Facebook or Twitter to\Nlook up the accounts of victims or
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.01,0:23:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suspected criminals, but there was also\Ncompanies that are scrapping the likes of
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.62,0:24:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook and Twitter to allow the police\Nto monitor social media. Now social medias
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.58,0:24:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have like blurred the lines between public\Nand private, because obviously we are
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.58,0:24:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,broadcasting our views on this platform\Nand at the moment the police has been
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.91,0:24:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploiting this kind of unique space, this\Nblured line, ithey are accessing this
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.06,0:24:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,content in a completely unregulated\Nmanner, as long as the content is publicly
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.81,0:24:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,available like for example you don't need\Nto be friend or to have any already
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.62,0:24:43.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,established connection with the suspected\Ncriminal or the police or the victim
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.47,0:24:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anything that's available to you it's\Ncompletely unregulated there are no rules
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.61,0:24:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I mentioned earlier the question of a\Nbudget restriction and so the police is
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.70,0:25:01.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,benefiting hugely from this because it\Ndoesn't really cost anything to use social
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.75,0:25:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,media so at the moment SOCMINT is kind of\Nlike the first and easy step in a police
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.02,0:25:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investigation because there is no cost and\Nbecause there is no oversight. Now,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.47,0:25:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOCMINT actually isn't so innocent in the\Nsense that it allows the police to
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.42,0:25:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,identify the locations of people based on\Ntheir post, it allows them to establish
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.52,0:25:30.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people's connection, their relationships,\Ntheir association, it allows the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.67,0:25:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,monitoring of protest and also to identify\Nthe leaders of various movement, and to
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.38,0:25:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,measure a person's influence. Now, in the\NUK what we know is that the police is
Dialogue: 0,0:25:45.88,0:25:52.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,largely using marketing products, so this\Nis an anonymous quote from a report by
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.02,0:25:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,academics that have been doing research on\NSOCMINT and what someone said was that: "A
Dialogue: 0,0:25:58.03,0:26:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of stuff came out of marketing because\Nmarketing were using social media to
Dialogue: 0,0:26:01.62,0:26:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand what people were saying about\Ntheir product... We wanted to understand
Dialogue: 0,0:26:05.19,0:26:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what people were saying so it's almost\Nusing it in reverse". Now again, this is
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.55,0:26:16.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not considered like surveillance device\Nthis is purely a marketing project that
Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.35,0:26:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're using and for that reason law\Nenforcement agencies and security agencies
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.31,0:26:30.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are often arguing that SOCMINT has\Nbasically no impact on privacy. But
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.14,0:26:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually when your post reveals your\Nlocation or when the content of your post
Dialogue: 0,0:26:36.64,0:26:40.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reveal what used to be considered and is\Nstill considered actually as sensitive
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.08,0:26:45.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private information like details about\Nyour sexual life, about your health, about
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.09,0:26:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your politics, can we really minimize the\Nimpact of the police accessing this
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.12,0:26:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information. Now obviously we may not have\Na problem with the average twitter user or
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.19,0:27:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a friend reading this information but\Nwhen the ones who are reading the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.88,0:27:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information and taking actions on this\Ninformation have power over us like the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.46,0:27:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police does, you know, what does it\Nactually mean for our right to privacy?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.72,0:27:26.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not to say that people should stop\Nusing social media but rather what kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.61,0:27:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regulation can we put in place so that\Nit's not so easy for the police to access.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:32.96,0:27:41.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The absence of regulations on SOCMINT has\Nactually already led to abuse in two cases
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.72,0:27:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both in the US that we've identified: One\Nis Raza v. the City of New York which is a
Dialogue: 0,0:27:48.16,0:27:55.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,case from the ACLU where we knew that we\Nfound out that the city of New York,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.84,0:28:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sorry, the New York Police Department was\Nsystematically gathering intelligence on
Dialogue: 0,0:28:00.18,0:28:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Muslim communities, and one of the ways\Nthey were gathering this intelligence was
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.80,0:28:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,essentially by surveilling social media\Naccounts of Muslims in New York. The
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.51,0:28:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,second case is a company called ZeroFOX.\NSo what ZeroFox does is social media
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.32,0:28:23.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,monitoring. Now, during the the riots that\Nfollowed the funeral of Freddie Gray,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.15,0:28:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Freddie Gray was a 25 year old black man\Nwho had been shot by the police, so after
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.50,0:28:36.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his funeral there had been a series of\Nriots in the UK and ZeroFOX produced a
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.55,0:28:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,report that they shared with the Baltimore\NPolice to essentially advertise for their
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.36,0:28:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social social media monitoring tool and\Nwhat the company was doing was again like
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.93,0:28:52.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,browsing social media and trying to\Nestablish who were the threat actors in
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.97,0:28:58.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these riots and among the 19 threat\Nactors that they identified two of them
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.66,0:29:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were actually leaders of the black lives\Nmatter movement. Actually at least one of
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.50,0:29:09.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them was a woman definitely not a physical\Nthreat but this is how they were
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.55,0:29:17.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,essentially labeled. So these two examples\Nactually show that again it's still sort
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.57,0:29:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the same targets, it's people of\Ncolors, it's activists, it's people from
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.24,0:29:30.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,poor income backgrounds, that are singled\Nout as likely criminals. And it's very
Dialogue: 0,0:29:30.18,0:29:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,telling when we realize that SOCMINT is\Nactually one of the sources of data that's
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.03,0:29:38.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eventually used for predictive policing\Nand then again predictive policing leading
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.74,0:29:45.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to people being more surveiled and\Npotentially exposed to more police
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.41,0:29:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,surveillance based on the fact that they\Nall singled out as as likely criminal. Now
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.17,0:29:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social media is a fascinating place\Nbecause it's a mix between a private and a
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.89,0:30:02.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public space as I said we are broadcasting\Nour views publicly but then again it's a
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.21,0:30:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,privately owned space where we follow the\Nrules that is set up by private companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.68,0:30:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if we want to protect this space and\Nensure that like free expression and
Dialogue: 0,0:30:13.78,0:30:18.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political organization can still happen on\Nthe spaces we need to fully understand how
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.62,0:30:23.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much the police have been exploiting the\Nspaces and how we can limit and regulate
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.46,0:30:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the use of it. Now, I'll talk to Millie\Nabout what we can do next. So I'm going to
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.88,0:30:33.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,briefly look at some of our initial\Nfindings we've made using Freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.46,0:30:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Information requests, broadly: the lack of\Nawareness by the public, weak legal basis,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.54,0:30:45.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a lack of oversight. Now, sometimes\Nthe lack of awareness appears intentional
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.43,0:30:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- we asked the police about their plans to\Nextract data from connected devices in the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.74,0:31:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,home and they replied neither confirm nor\Ndeny. Now this is kind of a bizarre
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.68,0:31:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,response given that Mark Stokes who's a\Nmember of the police had already said that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:06.66,0:31:13.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they plan to do this, in addition the UK\Ngovernment Home Office replied to us
Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.51,0:31:18.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying the Home Office plans to develop\Nskills and capacity to exploit the
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.27,0:31:23.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Internet of Things as part of criminal\Ninvestigations. They also said that police
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.93,0:31:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officers will receive training in relation\Nto extracting, obtaining, retrieving, data
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.92,0:31:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from or generated by connected devices. So\Nwe wrote back to every police force in the
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.40,0:31:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UK had refused to reply to us and\Npresented the evidence but they maintained
Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.97,0:31:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their stance so we will be bringing a\Nchallenge against them under the Freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.68,0:31:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Information Act. Now, Eva has also\Nidentified the huge risks associated with
Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.93,0:31:57.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,predictive policing yet in the UK we've\Nfound out this is set to increase with
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.77,0:32:02.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forces either using commercial tools or\Nin-house ones they've developed or
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.07,0:32:09.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,planning trials for 2018. There has been\Nno public consultation, there are no
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.05,0:32:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,safeguards, and there is no oversight. So\Nwhen we ask them more questions about the
Dialogue: 0,0:32:14.28,0:32:21.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plans we were told we were 'vexatious' and\Nthey won't respond to more requests so it
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.37,0:32:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seems like we have yet another challenge,\Nand what about mobile phone extraction
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.30,0:32:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools here are some of the stats that have\Nbeen found out and I would say these
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.57,0:32:36.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aren't completely accurate because it\Ndepends on how reliable the police force
Dialogue: 0,0:32:36.82,0:32:42.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are in responding but roughly I'd say it's\Nprobably more than 93 percent now of UK
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.94,0:32:48.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police forces throughout the country are\Nextracting data from digital devices. We
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.38,0:32:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know they plan to increase, we've seen in\Ntheir documents they plan to train more
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.08,0:32:58.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officers, to buy more equipment, and to\Nsee extraction as a standard part of
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.69,0:33:04.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arrest, even if the devices had absolutely\Nnothing to do with the offense and so
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.01,0:33:09.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these figures are likely to increase\Nexponentially, but in the UK not only to
Dialogue: 0,0:33:09.77,0:33:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the police not need a warrant in documents\Nwe've read they do not even need to notify
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.61,0:33:21.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the individual that they have extracted\Ndata, for example, from their mobile phone
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.14,0:33:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that they're storing it. If this is\Nbeing done without people's knowledge how
Dialogue: 0,0:33:27.59,0:33:32.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on earth can people challenge it, how can\Nthey ask for their data to be removed if
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.22,0:33:39.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're found innocent? Turning to social\Nmedia monitoring which the police refer to
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.59,0:33:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as open source research. This is Jenny\NJones she's a member of the House of Lords
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.33,0:33:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Green Party and next to her photo\Nis a quote from her entry on the domestic
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.73,0:33:57.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extremism database, and so, if a member of\Nthe House of Lords is being subject to
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.25,0:34:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social media monitoring for attending a\Nbike ride then I think it's highly likely
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.66,0:34:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a large number of people who\Nlegitimately exercise their right to
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.83,0:34:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protest are being subject to social media\Nmonitoring. Now, this hasn't gone
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.43,0:34:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unnoticed completely although they're\Nslightly old these are quotes from two
Dialogue: 0,0:34:20.40,0:34:24.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officials: the first the UK independent\Nreviewer of terrorism who notes that the
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.90,0:34:29.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extent of the use of social media\Nmonitoring is not public known, and the
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.69,0:34:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,second is the chief surveillance\Ncommissioner who is and this is a very
Dialogue: 0,0:34:33.68,0:34:38.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,strong statement for a commissioner is\Nsaying that basically social media should
Dialogue: 0,0:34:38.95,0:34:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not be treated as fair game by the police.\NSo now I'll move on to a weak or outdated
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.65,0:34:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal basis. For most of the technologies\Nwe've looked at it's very unclear what
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.65,0:34:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal basis the police are using even when\Nwe've asked them. This relates to mobile
Dialogue: 0,0:34:58.36,0:35:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phone extraction - so the legislation\Nthey're relying on is over 30 years old
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.94,0:35:11.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and is wholly inappropriate for mobile\Nphone extraction this law was developed to
Dialogue: 0,0:35:11.31,0:35:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deal with standard traditional searches,\Nthe search of a phone can in no way be
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.68,0:35:22.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equated to the search of a person, or the\Nsearch of a house, and despite the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.30,0:35:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have repeatedly asked for a\Nwarrant this is not the case and we
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.90,0:35:31.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believe that there should be a warrant in\Nplace not only in the UK but in the rest
Dialogue: 0,0:35:31.27,0:35:35.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world. So if you think that either\Nyou or your friends have had their data
Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.55,0:35:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extracted when they're arrested or your\Nphone has been in the possession of the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.37,0:35:45.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authorities you should be asking\Nquestions, and very briefly something on
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.65,0:35:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lack of oversight, so we reported in\NJanuary this year about documents that
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.42,0:35:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were obtained by The Bristol Cable's\Ninvestigation into Cellebrite and one
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.00,0:36:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,report said that in half of the cases\Nsampled the police noted the police had
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.02,0:36:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,failed to receive authorization internally\Nfor the use of extraction tools. Poor
Dialogue: 0,0:36:10.32,0:36:15.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,training undermined investigations into\Nserious offences such as murder, and
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.81,0:36:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inadequate security practices meant that\Nencryption was not taking place even when
Dialogue: 0,0:36:20.94,0:36:26.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was easy to do and they were losing\Nfiles containing intimate personal data.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.85,0:36:33.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So why does this matter? Here are some key\Npoints: In relation to information
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.49,0:36:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asymmetry - it's clear as Eva has\Nexplained that the police can now access
Dialogue: 0,0:36:37.76,0:36:43.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,far more data on our devices than the\Naverage user. In relation to imbalance of
Dialogue: 0,0:36:43.67,0:36:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,power - it's clear they can collect and\Nanalyze sources that are beyond our
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.42,0:36:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,control whether it's publicly placed\Nsensors, cameras, and other devices. There
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.32,0:36:58.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is also unequal access and if lawyers\Ndon't know what's being gathered they
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.89,0:37:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know what to ask for from the\Npolice. All in all this puts the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.66,0:37:10.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individual at a huge disadvantage. Another\Nimpact is the chilling effect on political
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.41,0:37:16.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expression now I'm sure many of you maybe\Nthink that the police monitor your social
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.85,0:37:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,media but the average person is unlikely\Nto, and so if they start to know about
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.86,0:37:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this are they going to think twice about\Njoining in protesting either physically or
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.11,0:37:32.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using a hashtag, and what about who your\Nfriends are? If they know you attend
Dialogue: 0,0:37:32.38,0:37:38.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protests are they really want to have\Ntheir data on your phone if they know that
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.54,0:37:44.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,potentially that could be extracted and\Nend up on a police database? It's far
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.46,0:37:49.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,easier to be anonymous face among many\Npeople than a single isolated person
Dialogue: 0,0:37:49.38,0:37:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,standing up to power but these new forms\Nof policing we have been discussing
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.12,0:38:00.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,redefine the very act of protesting by\Nsingling out each and every one of us from
Dialogue: 0,0:38:00.34,0:38:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the crowd. So, what can we do? Many of you\Nwill be familiar with these technologies,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:08.31,0:38:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but do you know how to find out what the\Npolice are doing? In the UK we've been
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.72,0:38:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using Freedom of Information requests, we\Nwant to do this with people throughout
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.61,0:38:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Europe and you don't need to be a lawyer\Nso please get in touch. We also want to
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.91,0:38:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dig into the technology a bit more, I want\Nsomeone to use a Cellebrite UFED on my
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.66,0:38:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,phone and show me exactly what can come\Nout of it, and we want to tell lawyers and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.81,0:38:37.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activists about these new techniques. Many\Nlawyers I speak to who are experts in
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.33,0:38:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actions against the police do not know the\Npolice are using these tools. This means
Dialogue: 0,0:38:42.21,0:38:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't know the right questions to ask\Nand so it's fundamental you speak to
Dialogue: 0,0:38:46.70,0:38:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are bringing these cases and\Ntell them about what they can do or what
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.92,0:38:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,questions they should be asking, and\Nfinally we want you to also raise the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.64,0:39:18.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,debate, to share our research, and to\Ncritique it, thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.03,0:39:24.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: So we've got ample enough time for\NQ&A are there any questions in the hall,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.22,0:39:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, there's one over there.\NQuestion: You mentioned the problem of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.67,0:39:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they do physical extraction from the\NCelebrite device it's going to get all of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.11,0:39:37.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the photos, all of the emails, or whatever\Nmaybe rather than just what the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.71,0:39:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investigator needs. What is the solution\Nto that from your eyes is there a
Dialogue: 0,0:39:42.06,0:39:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical one that these companies are\Ngonna have to implement - which they're
Dialogue: 0,0:39:45.74,0:39:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not going to - or a legal one, because on\Nthe other side a mobile phone is a crucial
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.14,0:39:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part in a any criminal investigation in\N2017. So what's the workaround or the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.89,0:40:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solution to that?\NAnswer: I think it's both, I think the
Dialogue: 0,0:40:00.02,0:40:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact that there isn't any law looking at\Nthis and no one's discussing can there be
Dialogue: 0,0:40:04.00,0:40:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a technical solution or does it need to be\None where there's better regulation and
Dialogue: 0,0:40:08.52,0:40:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oversight so you extract everything, can\Nyou keep it for a certain period to see
Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.66,0:40:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's relevant then do you have to delete\Nit? The trouble is we don't see any
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.86,0:40:22.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deletion practices and the police have\Npublicly stated in the media that they can
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.29,0:40:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just keep everything as long as they like.\NThey like data you can kind of see why but
Dialogue: 0,0:40:27.28,0:40:31.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't mean they should keep\Neveryone's data indefinitely just in case
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.24,0:40:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's useful so I think there may be tech\Nsolutions there may be legal ones and I
Dialogue: 0,0:40:35.06,0:40:40.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think perhaps both together as is one of\Nthe answers. Herald: The next question
Dialogue: 0,0:40:40.51,0:40:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from microphone one please.\NQ: I'm just wondering how those laws on
Dialogue: 0,0:40:45.35,0:40:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,action and power given to the cops are\Nbeing sold to the UK people is it because
Dialogue: 0,0:40:50.28,0:40:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to fight terrorism as I said or to fight\Ndrugs or this kind of stuff, what's the
Dialogue: 0,0:40:56.51,0:41:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,argument used by the government to sold\Nthat to the people.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:00.49,0:41:05.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A: I think actually one thing that's\Nimportant is to bear in mind is that I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.17,0:41:10.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not sure most of the of the public in the\NUK is even aware of it, so I think unlike
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.63,0:41:15.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the work of intelligence services an\Nagency where terrorism is used as the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.33,0:41:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,excuse for ever more power and especially\Nlaws that have become increasingly
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.45,0:41:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,invasive, actually with policing we don't\Neven fall in that kind of discourse
Dialogue: 0,0:41:26.13,0:41:30.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's actually hardly talked about\Nin UK. Yeah, and the mobile phone
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.98,0:41:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extraction stuff we've been looking at is\Nlow-level crimes, so that's like you
Dialogue: 0,0:41:34.88,0:41:40.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have, it could be you know a pub fight,\Nit could be a robbery, which that's more
Dialogue: 0,0:41:40.75,0:41:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,serious, it could be an assault, so they\Nwant to use it in every case. For all the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.55,0:41:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other techniques we have no idea what\Nthey're using for that's one of the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:48.17,0:41:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problems.\NHerald: The next question from the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:53.60,0:41:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,internet please.\NQ: When you say that there's a lack of
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.40,0:42:04.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,laws and regulations for police concerning\Nus in extraction and data from devices are
Dialogue: 0,0:42:04.46,0:42:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you talking just about UK and/or USA or do\Nyou have any examples of other countries
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.79,0:42:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who do better or worse?\NA: I don't know of any country that has a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.50,0:42:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regulation on publicly available\Ninformation on social media.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.52,0:42:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Microphone number four.\NQ: Thank you again for a great talk. In
Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.85,0:42:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terms of data exploitation an element that\NI didn't hear you talk about that I'd like
Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.92,0:42:35.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to hear a little bit more is when there\Nare questions around who is doing the
Dialogue: 0,0:42:35.94,0:42:40.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploitation, I know in the U.S. some FOIA\Nresearchers get around how difficult it is
Dialogue: 0,0:42:40.41,0:42:44.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get data from the feds by going after\Nlocal and state police departments, is
Dialogue: 0,0:42:44.64,0:42:48.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that something that you're doing or do you\Nhave a way of addressing confusion when
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.45,0:42:50.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people don't know what agency has the\Ndata?
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.88,0:42:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A: Yeah, I think actually what one of the\Nthings the data exploitation program at
Dialogue: 0,0:42:56.58,0:43:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Privacy International is doing is actually\Nlooking into the connection between the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:00.33,0:43:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private sector and governments because\Nobviously at the moment there's the whole
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.05,0:43:09.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question of data brokers which is an\Nindustry that's hardly regulated at all,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:09.95,0:43:14.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people don't necessarily know about,\Nwe don't, the companies that are doing it
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.13,0:43:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are familiar household name. I'll let\NMillie talk a lot more about the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.90,0:43:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government aspects of it. I guess the\Nquestion is again a country-by-country
Dialogue: 0,0:43:24.92,0:43:29.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basis, we work in many countries that\Ndon't have any data protection regulations
Dialogue: 0,0:43:29.47,0:43:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at all so there is this first difficulty\Nas how do we regulate, how do we limit the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:36.61,0:43:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,power of the state when you don't even\Nhave the basic legislation around
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.92,0:43:45.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data protection? One thing to bear in mind\Nis like the problem with companies is like
Dialogue: 0,0:43:45.71,0:43:53.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do you also hold companies accountable\Nwhereas with the state there is the whole
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.22,0:43:58.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,challenge of finding the right legal\Nframework to limit their power, but maybe
Dialogue: 0,0:43:58.12,0:44:02.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll let Millie talk a little bit more\Nabout this. Yeah, with our with our FOIA
Dialogue: 0,0:44:02.07,0:44:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,request we tend to go after everyone so\Nwith the example of the Home Office saying
Dialogue: 0,0:44:06.27,0:44:08.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that the other police didn't\Nthat was because we went to all the
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.99,0:44:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different state bodies and I think that\Nthere's a good example in in the states
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.68,0:44:17.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's far more research done on\Nwhat the police are doing, but they're
Dialogue: 0,0:44:17.69,0:44:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the same product in the UK I think\Nit's axiom and they're a storage device
Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.60,0:44:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for body-worn camera videos, and a lawyer\Nin the states said that in order to access
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.12,0:44:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the video containing his client he had to\Nagree to the terms and condition on Axioms
Dialogue: 0,0:44:32.80,0:44:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,website which basically gave them full use\Nof his clients video about a crime scene.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.14,0:44:42.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's a private company having use of\Nthis video so given that we found they're
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.75,0:44:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using it in the UK we don't know if those\Nkind of terms and conditions exist but
Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.12,0:44:54.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a very real problem as they rely\Nincreasingly on private companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:54.67,0:44:58.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Number two please.\NQ: Thank you for your work perhaps you've
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.37,0:45:03.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already answered this partially from other\Npeople's questions but it looks like we
Dialogue: 0,0:45:03.45,0:45:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a great way to start the process and\Nkind of taking the power back but you know
Dialogue: 0,0:45:08.54,0:45:13.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the state and the system certainly doesn't\Nwant to give up this much power, how do we
Dialogue: 0,0:45:13.25,0:45:18.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually directly, what's kind of the\Nendgame, what's the strategies for making
Dialogue: 0,0:45:18.19,0:45:24.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the police or the government's give up and\Nrestore balance, is it a suit, is it
Dialogue: 0,0:45:24.77,0:45:27.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,challenging through Parliament and in the\Nslow process of democracy, or what do you
Dialogue: 0,0:45:27.86,0:45:32.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think is the right way of doing it?\NA: I never think one works on its own,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.17,0:45:36.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even though I'm a litigator I often think\Nlitigation is quite a weak tactic,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:36.67,0:45:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly if you don't have the public\Non side, and then again if you don't have
Dialogue: 0,0:45:40.92,0:45:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Parliament. So we need all of them and\Nthey can all come through different means
Dialogue: 0,0:45:44.22,0:45:49.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we wouldn't just focus on one of the\Ndifferent countries it might be that you
Dialogue: 0,0:45:49.09,0:45:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go down the legal route or the down the\Nparliamentary route but in the UK we're
Dialogue: 0,0:45:53.54,0:45:57.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying all different routes so for example\Non mobile phone extraction in the
Dialogue: 0,0:45:57.46,0:46:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beginning of next year we're going to be\Ndoing a video we're going to be doing
Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.90,0:46:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interviewing the public and speaking to\Nthem about it, we're going to be going to
Dialogue: 0,0:46:04.12,0:46:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Parliament, and I've also been speaking to\Na lot of lawyers so I'm hoping some cases
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.96,0:46:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will start because those individual cases\Nbrought by local lawyers are where also
Dialogue: 0,0:46:15.28,0:46:19.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you see a lot of change like the John Cat\Ncase, that's one lawyer, so I think we
Dialogue: 0,0:46:19.86,0:46:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need all different things to see what\Nworks and what sticks.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.90,0:46:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: We haven't had number three yet.\NQ: Hi, thanks for the talk, so I have a
Dialogue: 0,0:46:31.15,0:46:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question regarding concerning the solution\Nside of things because one aspect I was
Dialogue: 0,0:46:39.02,0:46:45.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,missing in your talk was the economics of\Nthe game actually because like you are
Dialogue: 0,0:46:45.57,0:46:51.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the UK and the private sector has\Nlike stepped in also and another public
Dialogue: 0,0:46:51.51,0:46:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,domain the NHS to help out because funds\Nare missing and I would like to ask you
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.80,0:47:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether or not you think first of all the\Nlogic is the same within the police
Dialogue: 0,0:47:03.30,0:47:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,departments because it might also be like\Ncost driven aspect to limit the salaries
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.72,0:47:18.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or because you have the problem with\Npolice force coming in because you have to
Dialogue: 0,0:47:18.59,0:47:24.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pay their rents and automated things\Nespecially when I'm given to the private
Dialogue: 0,0:47:24.10,0:47:30.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sector which has another whole logic of\Nthinking about this stuff is cost saving
Dialogue: 0,0:47:30.78,0:47:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so maybe it would be a nice thing\Nwhether if you could talk a bit about the,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:43.93,0:47:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry, the attempt to maybe like get\Neconomics a bit more into the picture when
Dialogue: 0,0:47:49.36,0:47:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it comes to solutions of the whole thing.\NA: So I think yeah, your very right in
Dialogue: 0,0:47:56.13,0:48:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pointing actually the relation, well that\Nyou compare what's happening with the NHS
Dialogue: 0,0:48:02.31,0:48:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what's happening with the police\Nbecause in both the economics of
Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.80,0:48:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies offering policing services arise\Nfrom the same situation there's a need of
Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.94,0:48:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing more efficient policing because of\Nbudget cuts, so the same way the NHS is
Dialogue: 0,0:48:23.38,0:48:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being essentially privatized due to the\Nbudget cuts and due to the to the needs
Dialogue: 0,0:48:30.08,0:48:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that arise from being limited in your\Nfinance, again there's a similar thing
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.80,0:48:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the police when you when you're\Nunderstaffed then you're more likely to
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.88,0:48:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rely on on technologies to help you do\Nyour work more efficiently because
Dialogue: 0,0:48:44.33,0:48:51.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,essentially with predictive policing the\Nidea behind this is that if you know where
Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.21,0:48:56.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when crime will happen then you can\Nfocus the limited resources you have there
Dialogue: 0,0:48:56.38,0:49:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not sort of look at a more global\Nlarger picture. So I mean I'm not gonna be
Dialogue: 0,0:49:02.64,0:49:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here on stage advocating for more funds\Nfor the police, I'm not gonna do that, but
Dialogue: 0,0:49:06.60,0:49:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that there is there is a desperate\Nneed to reframe actually the narrative
Dialogue: 0,0:49:11.66,0:49:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around how we do policing actually and\Nthen definitely also look at a different
Dialogue: 0,0:49:19.17,0:49:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perspective and a different approach to\Npolicing because as I've tried to show
Dialogue: 0,0:49:22.68,0:49:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been a really long time since this\Nnarrative has developed of more data leads
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.01,0:49:32.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to crime resolution but actually what I\Ndidn't have the time to get into in this
Dialogue: 0,0:49:32.79,0:49:37.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk is actually all the research that are\Nshowing that those product actually don't
Dialogue: 0,0:49:37.49,0:49:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work like PREDPOL is actually basically\Ngaslighting a lot of police officers with
Dialogue: 0,0:49:42.77,0:49:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their figures, the kind of figures that\Nare pushing and suggesting are just like
Dialogue: 0,0:49:47.65,0:49:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plain inaccurate, it's not accurate to\Ncompare a city on the one year to what a
Dialogue: 0,0:49:53.67,0:49:59.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,city is becoming in another year so it's\Nnot even clear that a lot of this
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.23,0:50:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,project are even like properly functioning\Nand in a sense I don't want them to
Dialogue: 0,0:50:05.46,0:50:09.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,function I'm not gonna say if we had\Nbetter predictive policing then the
Dialogue: 0,0:50:09.25,0:50:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem will be solved no that is not the\Nquestion, the question is how do we have
Dialogue: 0,0:50:14.87,0:50:20.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regulation that force the police to look\Ndifferently into the way they are
Dialogue: 0,0:50:20.82,0:50:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conducting policing.\NHerald: Number four please.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:25.60,0:50:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Q: So, thank you for your presentation I\Nhave a question about SOCMINT, my opinion
Dialogue: 0,0:50:31.98,0:50:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOCMINT might violate the terms of\Nservices of for example Twitter and
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.36,0:50:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook have you tried to cooperate with\Nthese companies to make them actually
Dialogue: 0,0:50:41.00,0:50:46.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforce their TOS?\NA: So actually there is two things as I
Dialogue: 0,0:50:46.36,0:50:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said like all companies that are doing\Nscraping of data and you're right in this
Dialogue: 0,0:50:51.27,0:50:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,case they violate the terms of services of\NFacebook and Twitter. Now, the other
Dialogue: 0,0:50:58.70,0:51:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem is that there is already a loop to\Nthis and actually the marketing company I
Dialogue: 0,0:51:03.05,0:51:08.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was talking about that's being used by the\NUK police what they essentially do is that
Dialogue: 0,0:51:08.29,0:51:13.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they purchase the data from Facebook and\NTwitter, so this is why it's interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.56,0:51:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because when Facebook's say we don't sell\Nyour data, well essentially actually with
Dialogue: 0,0:51:19.90,0:51:25.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,marketing tools that are there to monitor\Nwhat people say about products essentially
Dialogue: 0,0:51:25.97,0:51:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you're doing is selling your data,\Nthey're not selling necessarily like your
Dialogue: 0,0:51:29.60,0:51:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,name or your location or things like that\Nbut whatever you're going to be posting
Dialogue: 0,0:51:34.40,0:51:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publicly for example in like groups or\Npublic pages is something that they are
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.11,0:51:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to be trying to sell to those\Ncompanies. So I think you're right and
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.33,0:51:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe Millie will have more to say about\Nthis. I think those companies have a role
Dialogue: 0,0:51:50.84,0:51:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to play but at the moment I think the\Nchallenge we face is actually this loop
Dialogue: 0,0:51:56.26,0:52:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're facing where by purchasing the\Ndata directly from the company they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:52:00.96,0:52:07.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,face any they don't violate the terms of\Nservices. Yeah, we've spoken a bit to the
Dialogue: 0,0:52:07.42,0:52:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the social media companies, we've\Nbeen told that one of their big focuses is
Dialogue: 0,0:52:12.84,0:52:17.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the problems of the social media\Nmonitoring at the U.S. border and so
Dialogue: 0,0:52:17.71,0:52:22.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's a lot known about that\Nthey're looking at those issues so I think
Dialogue: 0,0:52:22.61,0:52:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once we show more and more the problems\Nsay in the UK or in other countries I
Dialogue: 0,0:52:27.00,0:52:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think it would be very interesting to look\Nat what's happened over the Catalan
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.87,0:52:37.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,independence vote period to see how social\Nmedia was used then. I think the companies
Dialogue: 0,0:52:37.41,0:52:42.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aren't going to react until we make them\Nalthough they probably will meet with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:42.38,0:52:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A slightly different aspect we revealed in\Na different part of our work that the
Dialogue: 0,0:52:49.99,0:52:53.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence agencies were gathering\Nsocial media that's probably not
Dialogue: 0,0:52:53.19,0:52:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,groundbreaking news but it was it was\Nthere in plain fact and so they all got a
Dialogue: 0,0:52:57.78,0:53:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit concerned about how that was\Nhappening, whether some of them knew or
Dialogue: 0,0:53:01.48,0:53:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of them didn't, so the better our\Nresearch the more people speaking about it
Dialogue: 0,0:53:05.95,0:53:11.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they will engage, or we'll find\Nout are they are the police getting it
Dialogue: 0,0:53:11.03,0:53:17.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lawfully or unlawfully.\NHerald: Number one please.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:17.35,0:53:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Q: Thanks for your talk, I have a question\Non predictive policing because German
Dialogue: 0,0:53:21.20,0:53:28.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authorities in the last two years piloted pre-cops\NPREDPOL projects in three states I think
Dialogue: 0,0:53:28.70,0:53:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they claimed that they would never use\Nthese techniques with data on individuals
Dialogue: 0,0:53:33.63,0:53:38.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but only aggregate data like the new\Nrepeat stuff you presented and they
Dialogue: 0,0:53:38.87,0:53:42.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presented as just an additional tool in\Ntheir toolbox and that if use responsibly
Dialogue: 0,0:53:42.94,0:53:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can lead to more cost effective policing,\Ndo you buy this argument or would you say
Dialogue: 0,0:53:48.24,0:53:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's inevitably slippery slope or\Nkind of like a path dependency to more
Dialogue: 0,0:53:55.02,0:54:01.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,granular data assessment or evaluation\Nthat would inevitably infringe on privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:54:01.01,0:54:05.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights?\NA: I think this goes back to the question
Dialogue: 0,0:54:05.32,0:54:08.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of like you know are we using per\Nlistening to identify where crime is
Dialogue: 0,0:54:08.74,0:54:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening or who it is who's committing a\Ncrime but actually I think even if we if
Dialogue: 0,0:54:14.37,0:54:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we stick to this even if we stick to\Nidentifying where crime is happening we
Dialogue: 0,0:54:18.91,0:54:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still run into problems we still run into\Nthe fundamental problem of predictive
Dialogue: 0,0:54:23.65,0:54:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policing which is we only have data on\Ncrime that have already been reported ever
Dialogue: 0,0:54:28.60,0:54:35.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or already been addressed by the police,\Nand that's by essence already biased data.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:35.81,0:54:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we have police in some areas then we're\Nmore likely to, you know, further police
Dialogue: 0,0:54:41.43,0:54:51.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the solution of those companies of\Nthose algorithm will be leading to more
Dialogue: 0,0:54:51.58,0:54:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suggestions that crime is is happening\Nmore predominantly in those areas. So, as
Dialogue: 0,0:54:57.88,0:55:04.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've seen so far is that we fall into\Nthese fundamental problems of just
Dialogue: 0,0:55:04.46,0:55:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,overpolicing communities that are already\Noverpoliced. So in a sense in terms of
Dialogue: 0,0:55:11.33,0:55:18.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well the right to privacy but also the\Nquestion of the presumption of innocence I
Dialogue: 0,0:55:18.07,0:55:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think purely just having trying to\Ncultivate data on the where crime is
Dialogue: 0,0:55:23.04,0:55:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening it's not efficient policing\Nfirst of all but it's also causing
Dialogue: 0,0:55:29.66,0:55:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,challenges for fundamental rights as well.\NYeah, I guess it's not a great comparison
Dialogue: 0,0:55:35.02,0:55:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what a lot of what they're bringing in\Nnow is a program to assist you with the
Dialogue: 0,0:55:39.48,0:55:43.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,charging decision, so you've got someone\Nyou've arrested do you charge them or not?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:43.91,0:55:48.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The police say oh well of course it's only\Nadvisory you only have to look at how busy
Dialogue: 0,0:55:48.32,0:55:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a police station is to know how advisory\Nis that going to be and how much is it
Dialogue: 0,0:55:52.66,0:55:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to sway your opinion. So the more\Nyou use these tools the more it makes your
Dialogue: 0,0:55:56.74,0:56:01.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,job easier because rather than thinking,\Nwhere are we going to go, what areas
Dialogue: 0,0:56:01.26,0:56:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things going to happen, who are we going\Nto arrest, well the computer told us to do
Dialogue: 0,0:56:04.25,0:56:08.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this so let's just do that.\NHerald: Thank you and microphone number
Dialogue: 0,0:56:08.70,0:56:13.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three please.\NQ: Thank you, do you think that there are
Dialogue: 0,0:56:13.11,0:56:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any credible arguments to be made for\Nlimiting the police's abilities under acts
Dialogue: 0,0:56:19.94,0:56:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the UK that incorporate EU level\Nrestrictions on privacy data protection
Dialogue: 0,0:56:25.13,0:56:29.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,human rights or fundamental rights and if\Nso do you anticipate that those arguments
Dialogue: 0,0:56:29.65,0:56:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might change after brexit?\NA: Well they they're bringing in GDPR and
Dialogue: 0,0:56:35.14,0:56:39.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Law Enforcement Directive now and\Nthey're not going to scrap those once
Dialogue: 0,0:56:39.67,0:56:44.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brexit comes in. We'll still be part,\Nhopefully, of the European Court of Human
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.30,0:56:49.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rights, but not the European Court of\NJustice. I think there are going to be
Dialogue: 0,0:56:49.13,0:56:51.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,implications it's going to be very\Ninteresting how they play it out they're
Dialogue: 0,0:56:51.96,0:56:57.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still going to want the data from Europol,\Nthey want to be part of Interpol, policing
Dialogue: 0,0:56:57.42,0:57:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,operates at a different level and I think\Nif they have to comply with certain laws
Dialogue: 0,0:57:02.31,0:57:06.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that they can play with the big boys\Nthen they probably will, but they may do
Dialogue: 0,0:57:06.03,0:57:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things behind the scenes, so it depends\Nwhere it works for them, but certainly the
Dialogue: 0,0:57:12.16,0:57:16.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,politicians and definitely the police\Nwanna be part of those groups. So we'll
Dialogue: 0,0:57:16.02,0:57:20.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to see, but we will still use them\Nand we'll still rely on European judgments
Dialogue: 0,0:57:20.81,0:57:26.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the force they have in a court of law may\Nbe more difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:26.86,0:57:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Does the internet have any\Nquestions, nope, well then number two
Dialogue: 0,0:57:32.32,0:57:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please.\NQ: So you've mentioned that they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:57:35.84,0:57:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have really good operational security and\Nsometimes some stuff that should not leak
Dialogue: 0,0:57:41.61,0:57:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leaked now within the last year we had\Nmajor data leaks all across the world like
Dialogue: 0,0:57:47.87,0:57:54.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Philippines, South Africa, just to mention\Na few, now if the, security, OPSEC is so
Dialogue: 0,0:57:54.71,0:58:00.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bad in the police in Great Britain it's\Nnot unlikely that something will happen
Dialogue: 0,0:58:00.16,0:58:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe of a similar kind what kind of\Nimpact do you think such a huge data leak
Dialogue: 0,0:58:05.30,0:58:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of private information which the police\Nlegally stored has even if it was not
Dialogue: 0,0:58:11.75,0:58:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leaked by the police and it would be leaked\Nby a private company that had some way
Dialogue: 0,0:58:16.54,0:58:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,access to it?\NA: I I guess it depends what it what it
Dialogue: 0,0:58:19.33,0:58:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, if it's a database with serious\Ncriminals and only the bad people, then
Dialogue: 0,0:58:25.34,0:58:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people will think when it's\Ngood they have that information but they
Dialogue: 0,0:58:29.48,0:58:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need to make it more secure. If\Nsomehow databases which held all sorts of
Dialogue: 0,0:58:35.92,0:58:39.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information say from people's mobile\Nphones, innocent people's pictures, all
Dialogue: 0,0:58:39.59,0:58:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that kind of thing then we might see a\Nmuch wider public reaction to the tools
Dialogue: 0,0:58:44.82,0:58:51.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are used and the safeguards, the\Nlegal safeguards, will come a lot quicker
Dialogue: 0,0:58:51.04,0:58:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than probably we will achieve in the way\Nwe're trying to go now because there'll be
Dialogue: 0,0:58:55.60,0:59:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a bigger public outrage.\NHerald: Okay one last and hopefully short
Dialogue: 0,0:59:02.03,0:59:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question from microphone one.\NQ: Hi, thanks for the talk was really
Dialogue: 0,0:59:06.62,0:59:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interesting, it's actually quite a short\Nquestion how much is a Cellebrite, and can
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.32,0:59:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we buy one?\NA: I did look to buy one, I think there
Dialogue: 0,0:59:14.76,0:59:21.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were some on eBay but I'm sure if they\Nwere like the right things but a couple of
Dialogue: 0,0:59:21.32,0:59:24.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thousand pounds, but I think you have to\Nactually be a police force to get those
Dialogue: 0,0:59:24.32,0:59:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ones, maybe there are other types but\Nit's expensive but not unobtainable, but
Dialogue: 0,0:59:30.53,0:59:34.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm trying to find universities that might\Nhave them because I think that a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:59:34.78,0:59:38.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forensic schools I'm hoping that they\Nwill, I know they do extractions of
Dialogue: 0,0:59:38.37,0:59:41.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,laptops but I haven't found one yet that\Ndoes phones but I probably haven't asked
Dialogue: 0,0:59:41.72,0:59:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enough people. \NHerald: So thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:45.81,0:59:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34C3 Music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:59:50.99,1:00:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2020. Join, and help us!