1 00:00:01,111 --> 00:00:03,969 Chris Anderson: So, you've been obsessed with this problem 2 00:00:03,993 --> 00:00:05,757 for the last few years. 3 00:00:05,781 --> 00:00:07,821 What is the problem, in your own words? 4 00:00:07,845 --> 00:00:08,995 Andrew Forrest: Plastic. 5 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,288 Simple as that. 6 00:00:11,312 --> 00:00:18,305 Our inability to use it for the tremendous energetic commodity that it is, 7 00:00:18,329 --> 00:00:19,705 and just throw it away. 8 00:00:20,838 --> 00:00:23,909 CA: And so we see waste everywhere. 9 00:00:23,933 --> 00:00:26,397 At its extreme, it looks a bit like this. 10 00:00:26,421 --> 00:00:28,752 I mean, where was this picture taken? 11 00:00:28,776 --> 00:00:30,226 AF: That's in the Philippines, 12 00:00:30,250 --> 00:00:33,155 and you know, there's a lot of rivers, ladies and gentlemen, 13 00:00:33,180 --> 00:00:34,590 which look exactly like that. 14 00:00:34,615 --> 00:00:36,771 There's 169 in Sri Lanka alone. 15 00:00:36,795 --> 00:00:38,538 And that's the Philippines. 16 00:00:38,562 --> 00:00:41,271 So it's all over Southeast Asia. 17 00:00:41,295 --> 00:00:43,276 CA: So plastic is thrown into the rivers, 18 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:45,909 and from there, of course, it ends up in the ocean. 19 00:00:46,601 --> 00:00:50,174 I mean, we obviously see it on the beaches, 20 00:00:50,198 --> 00:00:52,740 but that's not even your main concern. 21 00:00:52,764 --> 00:00:56,231 It's what's actually happening to it in the oceans. Talk about that. 22 00:00:56,255 --> 00:00:58,756 AF: OK, so look. Thank you, Chris. 23 00:00:58,780 --> 00:00:59,954 About four years ago, 24 00:00:59,978 --> 00:01:03,297 I thought I'd do something really barking crazy, 25 00:01:03,321 --> 00:01:08,029 and I committed to do a PhD in marine ecology. 26 00:01:08,053 --> 00:01:11,270 And the scary part about that was, 27 00:01:11,294 --> 00:01:13,211 sure, I learned a lot about marine life, 28 00:01:13,235 --> 00:01:15,455 but it taught me more about marine death 29 00:01:15,479 --> 00:01:21,639 and the extreme mass ecological fatality of fish, 30 00:01:21,663 --> 00:01:23,919 of marine life, marine mammals, 31 00:01:23,943 --> 00:01:26,407 very close biology to us, 32 00:01:26,431 --> 00:01:30,669 which are dying in the millions if not trillions that we can't count 33 00:01:30,693 --> 00:01:32,369 at the hands of plastic. 34 00:01:32,393 --> 00:01:36,234 CA: But people think of plastic as ugly but stable. Right? 35 00:01:36,259 --> 00:01:39,698 You throw something in the ocean, "Hey, it'll just sit there forever. 36 00:01:39,722 --> 00:01:41,368 Can't do any damage, right?" 37 00:01:41,392 --> 00:01:48,159 AF: See, Chris, it's an incredible substance designed for the economy. 38 00:01:48,183 --> 00:01:52,879 It is the worst substance possible for the environment. 39 00:01:52,903 --> 00:01:56,090 The worst thing about plastics, as soon as it hits the environment, 40 00:01:56,114 --> 00:01:58,898 is that it fragments. 41 00:01:58,922 --> 00:02:01,365 It never stops being plastic. 42 00:02:01,389 --> 00:02:04,084 It breaks down smaller and smaller and smaller, 43 00:02:04,108 --> 00:02:06,756 and the breaking science on this, Chris, 44 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:09,438 which we've known in marine ecology for a few years now, 45 00:02:09,462 --> 00:02:11,402 but it's going to hit humans. 46 00:02:11,426 --> 00:02:15,493 Marine mammals, 99.9 percent same biology as us. 47 00:02:15,517 --> 00:02:18,688 We are aware now that nanoplastic, 48 00:02:18,712 --> 00:02:23,314 the very, very small particles of plastic, carrying their negative charge, 49 00:02:23,338 --> 00:02:26,140 can go straight through the pores of your skin. 50 00:02:26,989 --> 00:02:28,164 That's not the bad news. 51 00:02:28,188 --> 00:02:32,730 The bad news is that it goes straight through the blood-brain barrier, 52 00:02:32,754 --> 00:02:35,638 that protective coating which is there to protect your brain. 53 00:02:35,662 --> 00:02:39,669 Your brain's a little amorphous, wet mass full of little electrical charges. 54 00:02:39,693 --> 00:02:42,970 You put a negative particle into that, 55 00:02:42,994 --> 00:02:46,523 particularly a negative particle which can carry pathogens, 56 00:02:46,547 --> 00:02:50,131 so you have a negative charge, it attracts positive-charge elements, 57 00:02:50,155 --> 00:02:52,579 like pathogens, toxins, 58 00:02:52,603 --> 00:02:54,050 mercury, lead. 59 00:02:54,931 --> 00:02:58,252 That's the breaking science we're going to see in the next 12 months. 60 00:02:58,276 --> 00:03:02,087 CA: So already I think you told me that there's like 600 plastic bags or so 61 00:03:02,111 --> 00:03:05,708 for every fish that size in the ocean, something like that. 62 00:03:05,732 --> 00:03:08,605 And they're breaking down, 63 00:03:08,629 --> 00:03:10,668 and there's going to be ever more of them, 64 00:03:10,692 --> 00:03:13,669 and we haven't even seen the start of the consequences of that. 65 00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:15,290 AF: No, we really haven't. 66 00:03:15,314 --> 00:03:18,538 The Ellen MacArthur Foundation, they're a bunch of good scientists, 67 00:03:18,562 --> 00:03:20,610 we've been working with them for a while. 68 00:03:20,635 --> 00:03:22,375 I've completely verified their work. 69 00:03:22,399 --> 00:03:25,105 They say there will be one ton of plastic, Chris, 70 00:03:25,129 --> 00:03:27,649 for every three tons of fish by, not 2050 -- 71 00:03:27,673 --> 00:03:32,278 and I really get impatient with people who talk about 2050 -- by 2025. 72 00:03:32,302 --> 00:03:33,545 That's around the corner. 73 00:03:33,569 --> 00:03:35,692 That's just the here and now. 74 00:03:35,716 --> 00:03:38,975 You don't need one ton of plastic to completely wipe out marine life. 75 00:03:38,999 --> 00:03:42,061 Less than that is going to do a fine job at it. 76 00:03:42,085 --> 00:03:46,555 So we have to end it straightaway. We've got no time. 77 00:03:46,579 --> 00:03:50,948 CA: OK, so you have an idea for ending it, and you're coming at this 78 00:03:50,972 --> 00:03:53,663 not as a typical environmental campaigner, I would say, 79 00:03:53,687 --> 00:03:56,877 but as a businessmen, as an entrepreneur, who has lived -- 80 00:03:56,901 --> 00:04:00,390 you've spent your whole life thinking about global economic systems 81 00:04:00,414 --> 00:04:02,067 and how they work. 82 00:04:02,091 --> 00:04:03,695 And if I understand it right, 83 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:10,241 your idea depends on heroes who look something like this. 84 00:04:10,265 --> 00:04:11,777 What's her profession? 85 00:04:11,801 --> 00:04:15,010 AF: She, Chris, is a ragpicker, 86 00:04:15,034 --> 00:04:18,752 and there were 15, 20 million ragpickers like her, 87 00:04:18,776 --> 00:04:23,032 until China stopped taking everyone's waste. 88 00:04:23,056 --> 00:04:27,271 And the price of plastic, minuscule that it was, collapsed. 89 00:04:27,295 --> 00:04:29,081 That led to people like her, 90 00:04:29,105 --> 00:04:33,323 which, now -- she is a child who is a schoolchild. 91 00:04:33,347 --> 00:04:35,012 She should be at school. 92 00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:37,302 That's probably very akin to slavery. 93 00:04:37,326 --> 00:04:40,297 My daughter Grace and I have met hundreds of people like her. 94 00:04:40,321 --> 00:04:43,876 CA: And there are many adults as well, literally millions around the world, 95 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:45,076 and in some industries, 96 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:47,665 they actually account for the fact that, for example, 97 00:04:47,689 --> 00:04:49,891 we don't see a lot of metal waste in the world. 98 00:04:49,915 --> 00:04:51,135 AF: That's exactly right. 99 00:04:51,159 --> 00:04:54,289 That little girl is, in fact, the hero of the environment. 100 00:04:54,313 --> 00:04:57,920 She's in competition with a great big petrochemical plant 101 00:04:57,944 --> 00:04:59,294 which is just down the road, 102 00:04:59,318 --> 00:05:01,999 the three-and-a-half-billion-dollar petrochemical plant. 103 00:05:02,023 --> 00:05:03,182 That's the problem. 104 00:05:03,206 --> 00:05:07,651 We've got more oil and gas in plastic and landfill 105 00:05:07,675 --> 00:05:11,444 than we have in the entire oil and gas resources of the United States. 106 00:05:11,468 --> 00:05:13,491 So she is the hero. 107 00:05:13,515 --> 00:05:16,481 And that's what that landfill looks like, ladies and gentlemen, 108 00:05:16,505 --> 00:05:18,923 and it's solid oil and gas. 109 00:05:18,947 --> 00:05:22,619 CA: So there's huge value potentially locked up in there 110 00:05:22,643 --> 00:05:27,182 that the world's ragpickers would, if they could, make a living from. 111 00:05:27,206 --> 00:05:28,806 But why can't they? 112 00:05:29,647 --> 00:05:32,909 AF: Because we have ingrained in us 113 00:05:32,933 --> 00:05:37,269 a price of plastic from fossil fuels, 114 00:05:37,293 --> 00:05:40,864 which sits just under what it takes 115 00:05:40,888 --> 00:05:45,438 to economically and profitably recycle plastic from plastic. 116 00:05:45,462 --> 00:05:50,496 See, all plastic is is building blocks from oil and gas. 117 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,405 Plastic's 100 percent polymer, which is 100 percent oil and gas. 118 00:05:54,429 --> 00:05:56,828 And you know we've got enough plastic in the world 119 00:05:56,852 --> 00:05:58,032 for all our needs. 120 00:05:58,056 --> 00:06:00,576 And when we recycle plastic, 121 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,865 if we can't recycle it cheaper than fossil fuel plastic, 122 00:06:03,889 --> 00:06:07,224 then, of course, the world just sticks to fossil fuel plastic. 123 00:06:07,248 --> 00:06:09,228 CA: So that's the fundamental problem, 124 00:06:09,252 --> 00:06:13,362 the price of recycled plastic is usually more 125 00:06:13,386 --> 00:06:17,902 than the price of just buying it made fresh from more oil. 126 00:06:17,926 --> 00:06:19,473 That's the fundamental problem. 127 00:06:19,497 --> 00:06:22,636 AF: A slight tweak of the rules here, Chris. 128 00:06:22,660 --> 00:06:24,428 I'm a commodity person. 129 00:06:24,452 --> 00:06:31,451 I understand that we used to have scrap metal and rubbish iron 130 00:06:31,475 --> 00:06:34,486 and bits of copper lying all round the villages, 131 00:06:34,510 --> 00:06:36,339 particularly in the developing world. 132 00:06:36,363 --> 00:06:38,259 And people worked out it's got a value. 133 00:06:38,283 --> 00:06:41,438 It's actually an article of value, 134 00:06:41,462 --> 00:06:42,882 not of waste. 135 00:06:42,906 --> 00:06:46,084 Now the villages and the cities and the streets are clean, 136 00:06:46,108 --> 00:06:50,646 you don't trip over scrap copper or scrap iron now, 137 00:06:50,670 --> 00:06:54,025 because it's an article of value, it gets recycled. 138 00:06:54,049 --> 00:06:59,642 CA: So what's your idea, then, to try to change that in plastics? 139 00:06:59,666 --> 00:07:01,278 AF: OK, so Chris, 140 00:07:01,302 --> 00:07:05,261 for most part of that PhD, I've been doing research. 141 00:07:05,285 --> 00:07:08,556 And the good thing about being a businessperson who's done OK at it 142 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:10,441 is that people want to see you. 143 00:07:10,465 --> 00:07:11,630 Other businesspeople, 144 00:07:11,654 --> 00:07:15,757 even if you're kind of a bit of a zoo animal species they'd like to check out, 145 00:07:15,781 --> 00:07:18,267 they'll say, yeah, OK, we'll all meet Twiggy Forrest. 146 00:07:18,291 --> 00:07:20,160 And so once you're in there, 147 00:07:20,184 --> 00:07:21,704 you can interrogate them. 148 00:07:21,728 --> 00:07:27,697 And I've been to most of the oil and gas and fast-moving consumer good companies 149 00:07:27,721 --> 00:07:28,922 in the world, 150 00:07:28,946 --> 00:07:32,026 and there is a real will to change. 151 00:07:32,050 --> 00:07:33,855 I mean, there's a couple of dinosaurs 152 00:07:33,879 --> 00:07:36,367 who are going to hope for the best and do nothing, 153 00:07:36,391 --> 00:07:38,341 but there's a real will to change. 154 00:07:38,365 --> 00:07:40,154 So what I've been discussing is, 155 00:07:40,178 --> 00:07:43,654 the seven and a half billion people in the world 156 00:07:43,678 --> 00:07:47,595 don't actually deserve to have their environment smashed by plastic, 157 00:07:47,619 --> 00:07:52,831 their oceans rendered depauperate or barren of sea life because of plastic. 158 00:07:52,855 --> 00:07:54,288 So you come down that chain, 159 00:07:54,312 --> 00:07:58,455 and there's tens of thousands of brands which we all buy heaps of products from, 160 00:07:58,479 --> 00:08:01,954 but then there's only a hundred major resin producers, 161 00:08:01,978 --> 00:08:04,114 big petrochemical plants, 162 00:08:04,138 --> 00:08:06,857 that spew out all the plastic which is single use. 163 00:08:06,881 --> 00:08:08,264 CA: So one hundred companies 164 00:08:08,288 --> 00:08:10,789 are right at the base of this food chain, as it were. 165 00:08:10,813 --> 00:08:11,972 AF: Yeah. 166 00:08:11,996 --> 00:08:14,941 CA: And so what do you need those one hundred companies to do? 167 00:08:14,965 --> 00:08:19,514 AF: OK, so we need them to simply raise the value 168 00:08:19,538 --> 00:08:22,402 of the building blocks of plastic from oil and gas, 169 00:08:22,426 --> 00:08:25,001 which I call "bad plastic," 170 00:08:25,025 --> 00:08:26,327 raise the value of that, 171 00:08:26,351 --> 00:08:30,180 so that when it spreads through the brands and onto us, the customers, 172 00:08:30,204 --> 00:08:34,661 we won't barely even notice an increase in our coffee cup 173 00:08:34,685 --> 00:08:37,668 or Coke or Pepsi, or anything. 174 00:08:37,692 --> 00:08:39,456 CA: Like, what, like a cent extra? 175 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,478 AF: Less. Quarter of a cent, half a cent. 176 00:08:41,502 --> 00:08:44,692 It'll be absolutely minimal. 177 00:08:44,716 --> 00:08:45,969 But what it does, 178 00:08:45,993 --> 00:08:50,685 it makes every bit of plastic all over the world an article of value. 179 00:08:50,709 --> 00:08:54,186 Where you have the waste worst, 180 00:08:54,210 --> 00:08:56,094 say Southeast Asia, India, 181 00:08:56,118 --> 00:08:58,199 that's where the wealth is most. 182 00:08:58,223 --> 00:09:00,676 CA: OK, so it feels like there's two parts to this. 183 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:04,698 One is, if they will charge more money 184 00:09:04,722 --> 00:09:07,905 but carve out that excess 185 00:09:07,929 --> 00:09:12,399 and pay it -- into what? -- a fund operated by someone 186 00:09:12,423 --> 00:09:15,188 to tackle this problem of -- what? 187 00:09:15,212 --> 00:09:18,803 What would that money be used for, that they charge the extra for? 188 00:09:18,827 --> 00:09:21,287 AF: So when I speak to really big businesses, 189 00:09:21,311 --> 00:09:24,857 I say, "Look, I need you to change, and I need you to change really fast," 190 00:09:24,881 --> 00:09:27,597 their eyes are going to peel over in boredom, 191 00:09:27,621 --> 00:09:29,960 unless I say, "And it's good business." 192 00:09:29,984 --> 00:09:32,077 "OK, now you've got my attention, Andrew." 193 00:09:32,101 --> 00:09:34,937 So I say, "Right, I need you to make a contribution 194 00:09:34,961 --> 00:09:37,497 to an environmental and industry transition fund. 195 00:09:37,521 --> 00:09:38,956 Over two or three years, 196 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:41,177 the entire global plastics industry 197 00:09:41,201 --> 00:09:45,307 can transition from getting its building blocks from fossil fuel 198 00:09:45,331 --> 00:09:47,426 to getting its building blocks from plastic. 199 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:48,911 The technology is out there. 200 00:09:48,935 --> 00:09:50,205 It's proven." 201 00:09:50,229 --> 00:09:53,706 I've taken two multibillion-dollar operations from nothing, 202 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:56,549 recognizing that the technology can be scaled. 203 00:09:56,573 --> 00:10:01,067 I see at least a dozen technologies in plastic to handle all types of plastic. 204 00:10:01,091 --> 00:10:04,643 So once those technologies have an economic margin, 205 00:10:04,667 --> 00:10:06,589 which this gives them, 206 00:10:06,613 --> 00:10:09,877 that's where the global public will get all their plastic from, 207 00:10:09,901 --> 00:10:11,775 from existing plastic. 208 00:10:11,799 --> 00:10:15,940 CA: So every sale of virgin plastic contributes money to a fund 209 00:10:15,964 --> 00:10:18,798 that is used to basically transition the industry 210 00:10:18,822 --> 00:10:21,665 and start to pay for things like cleanup and other pieces. 211 00:10:21,689 --> 00:10:23,054 AF: Absolutely. Absolutely. 212 00:10:23,078 --> 00:10:25,090 CA: And it has the incredible side benefit, 213 00:10:25,114 --> 00:10:26,895 which is maybe even the main benefit, 214 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:28,269 of creating a market. 215 00:10:28,293 --> 00:10:31,425 It suddenly makes recyclable plastic 216 00:10:31,449 --> 00:10:36,038 a giant business that can unlock millions of people around the world 217 00:10:36,062 --> 00:10:37,903 to find a new living collecting it. 218 00:10:37,927 --> 00:10:39,080 AF: Yeah, exactly. 219 00:10:39,104 --> 00:10:43,628 So all you do is, you've got fossil fuel plastics at this value 220 00:10:43,652 --> 00:10:45,709 and recycled plastic at this value. 221 00:10:45,733 --> 00:10:47,046 You change it. 222 00:10:47,070 --> 00:10:51,657 So recycled plastic is cheaper than fossil fuel plastics. 223 00:10:51,681 --> 00:10:53,615 The world goes to [recycled plastics.] 224 00:10:53,639 --> 00:10:56,806 What I love about this most, Chris, is that, you know, 225 00:10:56,830 --> 00:11:02,381 we waste into the environment 300, 350 million tons of plastic. 226 00:11:02,405 --> 00:11:04,942 On the oil and gas companies own accounts, 227 00:11:04,966 --> 00:11:06,982 it's going to grow to 500 million tons. 228 00:11:07,006 --> 00:11:09,434 This is an accelerating problem. 229 00:11:09,458 --> 00:11:13,208 But every ton of that is polymer. 230 00:11:13,232 --> 00:11:16,736 Polymer is 1,000 dollars, 1,500 dollars a ton. 231 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,864 That's half a trillion dollars which could go into business 232 00:11:20,888 --> 00:11:24,427 and could create jobs and opportunities and wealth right across the world, 233 00:11:24,451 --> 00:11:26,450 particularly in the most impoverished. 234 00:11:26,474 --> 00:11:27,731 Yet we throw it away. 235 00:11:27,755 --> 00:11:31,135 CA: So this would allow the big companies to invest in recycling plants 236 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:32,668 literally all over the world -- 237 00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:33,844 AF: All over the world. 238 00:11:33,868 --> 00:11:35,916 Because the technology is low-capital cost, 239 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:38,977 you can put it in at rubbish dumps, at the bottom of big hotels, 240 00:11:39,001 --> 00:11:40,303 garbage depots, everywhere, 241 00:11:40,327 --> 00:11:41,621 turn that waste into resin. 242 00:11:41,645 --> 00:11:43,243 CA: Now, you're a philanthropist, 243 00:11:43,267 --> 00:11:46,056 and you're ready to commit some of your own wealth to this. 244 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,378 What is the role of philanthropy in this project? 245 00:11:48,402 --> 00:11:52,236 AF: I think what we have to do is kick in the 40 to 50 million US dollars 246 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:53,660 to get it going, 247 00:11:53,684 --> 00:11:56,153 and then we have to create absolute transparency 248 00:11:56,177 --> 00:11:59,407 so everyone can see exactly what's going on. 249 00:11:59,431 --> 00:12:02,691 From the resin producers to the brands to the consumers, 250 00:12:02,715 --> 00:12:05,239 everyone gets to see who is playing the game, 251 00:12:05,263 --> 00:12:07,921 who is protecting the Earth, and who doesn't care. 252 00:12:07,945 --> 00:12:10,276 And that'll cost about a million dollars a week, 253 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:12,686 and we're going to underwrite that for five years. 254 00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:15,540 Total contribution is circa 300 million US dollars. 255 00:12:15,564 --> 00:12:16,891 CA: Wow. 256 00:12:16,915 --> 00:12:18,168 Now -- 257 00:12:18,192 --> 00:12:23,074 (Applause) 258 00:12:23,098 --> 00:12:26,529 You've talked to other companies, like to the Coca-Colas of this world, 259 00:12:26,553 --> 00:12:29,691 who are willing to do this, they're willing to pay a higher price, 260 00:12:29,715 --> 00:12:31,542 they would like to pay a higher price, 261 00:12:31,566 --> 00:12:32,721 so long as it's fair. 262 00:12:32,745 --> 00:12:35,129 AF: Yeah, it's fair. 263 00:12:35,153 --> 00:12:38,308 So, Coca-Cola wouldn't like Pepsi to play ball 264 00:12:38,332 --> 00:12:41,129 unless the whole world knew that Pepsi wasn't playing ball. 265 00:12:41,153 --> 00:12:42,327 Then they don't care. 266 00:12:42,351 --> 00:12:45,245 So it's that transparency of the market 267 00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:47,603 where, if people try and cheat the system, 268 00:12:47,627 --> 00:12:49,988 the market can see it, the consumers can see it. 269 00:12:50,012 --> 00:12:52,138 The consumers want a role to play in this. 270 00:12:52,162 --> 00:12:53,689 Seven and a half billion of us. 271 00:12:53,713 --> 00:12:56,323 We don't want our world smashed by a hundred companies. 272 00:12:56,347 --> 00:12:59,155 CA: Well, so tell us, you've said what the companies can do 273 00:12:59,179 --> 00:13:00,646 and what you're willing to do. 274 00:13:00,670 --> 00:13:02,063 What can people listening do? 275 00:13:02,087 --> 00:13:04,384 AF: OK, so I would like all of us, 276 00:13:04,408 --> 00:13:05,607 all around the world, 277 00:13:05,631 --> 00:13:08,715 to go a website called noplasticwaste.org. 278 00:13:08,739 --> 00:13:10,865 You contact your hundred resin producers 279 00:13:10,889 --> 00:13:12,329 which are in your region. 280 00:13:12,353 --> 00:13:14,026 You will have at least one 281 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:18,484 within an email or Twitter or a telephone contact from you, 282 00:13:18,508 --> 00:13:23,943 and let them know that you would like them to make a contribution to a fund 283 00:13:23,967 --> 00:13:26,594 which industry can manage or the World Bank can manage. 284 00:13:26,618 --> 00:13:30,312 It raises tens of billions of dollars per year 285 00:13:30,336 --> 00:13:35,018 so you can transition the industry to getting all its plastic from plastic, 286 00:13:35,042 --> 00:13:36,214 not from fossil fuel. 287 00:13:36,238 --> 00:13:38,485 We don't need that. That's bad. This is good. 288 00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:40,521 And it can clean up the environment. 289 00:13:40,545 --> 00:13:42,098 We've got enough capital there, 290 00:13:42,122 --> 00:13:45,079 we've got tens of billions of dollars, Chris, per annum 291 00:13:45,103 --> 00:13:46,535 to clean up the environment. 292 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,334 CA: You're in the recycling business. 293 00:13:48,358 --> 00:13:50,364 Isn't this a conflict of interest for you, 294 00:13:50,388 --> 00:13:52,597 or rather, a huge business opportunity for you? 295 00:13:52,622 --> 00:13:54,753 AF: Yeah, look, I'm in the iron ore business, 296 00:13:54,778 --> 00:13:56,987 and I compete against the scrap metal business, 297 00:13:57,011 --> 00:14:00,446 and that's why you don't have any scrap lying around to trip over, 298 00:14:00,470 --> 00:14:01,919 and cut your toe on, 299 00:14:01,943 --> 00:14:03,219 because it gets collected. 300 00:14:03,243 --> 00:14:06,537 CA: This isn't your excuse to go into the plastic recycling business. 301 00:14:06,561 --> 00:14:08,882 AF: No, I am going to cheer for this boom. 302 00:14:08,906 --> 00:14:11,017 This will be the internet of plastic waste. 303 00:14:11,041 --> 00:14:14,380 This will be a boom industry which will spread all over the world, 304 00:14:14,404 --> 00:14:18,463 and particularly where poverty is worst because that's where the rubbish is most, 305 00:14:18,487 --> 00:14:19,803 and that's the resource. 306 00:14:19,827 --> 00:14:23,034 So I'm going to cheer for it and stand back. 307 00:14:23,058 --> 00:14:24,403 CA: Twiggy, we're in an era 308 00:14:24,427 --> 00:14:29,092 where so many people around the world are craving a new, regenerative economy, 309 00:14:29,116 --> 00:14:31,745 these big supply chains, these big industries, 310 00:14:31,769 --> 00:14:33,810 to fundamentally transform. 311 00:14:33,834 --> 00:14:35,566 It strikes me as a giant idea, 312 00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:38,650 and you're going to need a lot of people cheering you on your way 313 00:14:38,674 --> 00:14:39,840 to make it happen. 314 00:14:39,864 --> 00:14:41,539 Thank you for sharing this with us. 315 00:14:41,563 --> 00:14:43,587 AF: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris. 316 00:14:43,611 --> 00:14:45,103 (Applause)