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Hello.

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The two of us are starting

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a level on a side-effect
or side-project or whatever,

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something which 
is loosely connected to Wikidata,

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which is open data

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and we're glad to see you're here.

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I'm Alice Wiegand.

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I'm the project lead for open data
in the municipality of Düsseldorf,

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and this is Knut Huhne, who is a student.

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You may introduce yourself.

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Yeah, I'm a software developer by day,

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and in my spare time
I do a lot of work at Code for Germany,

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which is in community organization
that I'll talk a bit about,

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and we try to build civic tech tools 
based on open data.

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Yeah, that's exactly what we need.

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And so let's see where we are [on this].

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[inaudible]

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So if we talk about open government data,

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this is something where I think

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the entire world is much more forward

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than Europe and especially Germany is.

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But in Germany,
where we both come from and live,

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this is getting some dynamics 
because laws are changing.

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And overall, we have just data
which is used, produced,

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and cared

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and maintained by government,

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which is just a reliable data source,

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and it's official data with a high value,

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and it is sometimes 
really surprising to see

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what kind of data there is,
openly kind of published.

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So this is, for example...

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I hope it opens soon.

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This, for example, is...

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it's the measure of radioactivity in kale.

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And I think it's surprising,

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I wonder why is it kale 
and not red cabbage?

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And I wonder why is this a fixed date?

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You know, 20th of November in 2013.

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And I wonder why is it that far away?

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What are we doing 
with radioactivity in kale today?

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I don't know.

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So you find a lot 
of these surprising things

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when you start to...

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What have I to do, do you know?

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...when you start to 
look at open data in Germany.

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I'm confused with this computer.

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Oh, yes. Thanks.

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Yeah, and this data usually is up to date.

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Well, it should be, of course.

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As in all data, we have our gaps there.

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And overall if I just look 
on the region I know best,

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we have 86

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of singular portals 
with open data within Germany,

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which is on municipality level,
on the country level,

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on the federal country level, 
and on state level.

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And in Austria, it's 19;
and in Switzerland, it's 6,

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and numbers are growing.

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So, of course, also,
question is why are we all doing

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the same thing on different places?

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It doesn't seem to be that efficient,

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I'm not sure, but this is how
our world today works.

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So now I find the right key, thanks.

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And there are a lot of challenges
which we have to face

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and kind of a huge gap 
between wish and reality.

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So, after all, I do think there is a huge,

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you know, kind of [friendliness]

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between open data and Wikidata.

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It's all about essential data.

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It is about being as actual 
or being as up to date as possible.

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But in the end, when we look
at the open data platforms

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in mostly Europe,

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we find incompatible licenses.

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So usually mainly municipalities

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choose a BY license,

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because they think it would be good
to know where this data came from

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and to be named there.

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And this is really a crazy thing.

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I looked at open data portals,

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and we have a portal in Düsseldorf 
for two years now

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and by design, we choose the 0 license.

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And I found that open data in Zurich--

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Okay, it's not Germany, but it's Zurich--

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and they are doing 
a lot of cool stuff there as well.

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And they also use the 0 license.

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But usually municipalities
like CC BY licenses, sadly.

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And another thing we have to face

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is that, especially in municipalities,
this kind of task to publish

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this internal data 
on a free and open license,

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on a platform, wherever,

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is just given to a person 
who usually does something else.

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So it's not, you know, a 100 person task

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for this person to do,

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but something to do, you know,
with all the other things.

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Overall, I think we can say

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that of course there are people
who are really doing a great job.

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Usually, we don't find 
that level of expertise

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on data analysis and data management

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that we would need to
to really find high-quality data

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within the open data 
which comes from governances.

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And I think this is a problem,

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and I realized also
that there's a language issue.

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So if I just think about 
putting my colleagues into this room,

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into the session we had just before, 
about data quality,

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it would be problematic 
to find a common language,

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to figure out how we can start
to improve our data quality

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so that Wikidata's data quality
is also improved.

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Another thing 
is that we have no standards

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in the name of anthologies,

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in the name of how we prepare data.

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There is a metadata standard,
which is great,

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but this, after all, does not mean
that we all do the same thing

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and that we find the same kind of data,

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just because it is named in the same way.

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But, overall, it's a lot of official data.

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You can get from open data.

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I made an example here
which is about street names,

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and usually you find a lot

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of different forms and street names.

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Sometimes something like the Karlsplatz

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it's written with a C, 
or with a K, or separated,

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and sometimes this is also developing

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over the time.

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And in the end, there's just
only one official name

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of a place or of a street,

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and it's the municipality 
which can give you that name.

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And this part, like a list
of official street names

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is something which is regularly published

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by a lot of municipalities 
in their open data portals.

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And I think that at all 
is a good start to figure out

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what we can do with this 
in Wikidata as well.

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So this is my short introduction,

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and I'm happy to hear about
community work with open data.

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Yeah, I thought I would just kind of give
a quick introduction from the other side,

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of movement from the community side.

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So, as I said, I work in my spare time

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for an organization
called Code for Germany.

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We've been running since about five years

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where we have labs, 
that is groups of people

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that meet once a week,
some once a month in Germany

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in local, what we call labs.

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And we try to build tools
that somehow make it easier

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for people to participate in politics,

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to get an understanding 
of the environment around them,

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to collect data about air pollution.

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And, of course, we'd like to use

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governmentally provided
open data for that,

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but we've also realized
that there's difficulties with that,

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that sometimes the data isn't there,
it's under a difficult license,

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which is kind of how we found our way 
to Wikidata also, I think.

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We also happened to meet in Berlin

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in the offices of Wikimedia Deutschland,

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so this kind of brought us
very close to Wikidata.

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And I think it's cool to see

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that we're kind of strengthening
the relationship

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between the Wikidata community in Germany 
and the Code for Germany community.

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We also would like to work 
even closer with the government,

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but talking about bridging gaps.

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I mean, there's very basic problems 
such as us meeting after we work

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and the people for the government 
wanting to meet when they work.

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So I think when we think about 
how these communities can work together,

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there's very mundane things,
such as working times,

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that we need to keep in mind.

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So just a quick introduction 
to what we do at Code for Germany

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especially with regards to Wikidata.

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We've had a couple of hackathons now
within the last years

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where people from the Wikidata community

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and the Code for Germany community

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kind of came together to meet

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and just spend a weekend
to work on Wikidata.

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And we've done
all kinds of different things.

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We've usually been very interested
in political data,

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so we've been importing a lot of data

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regarding politicians 
and regarding elections.

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We've thought about how to model
election data in Wikidata a lot

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and we've also had a lot of people
that built games with Wikidata.

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One of the nice examples for this

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would be the Wikidata card game, 
where you can put in any Q number

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and you get a nice trading card game.

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You might have seen that.

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If not, I encourage you to look for that.

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I think that's a really cool way
to sell Wikidata to other people.

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Selling-- this is also 
something that we've realized

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when we talk to data providers,

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that often they're quite scared 
to give data to you

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with the traditional argument

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of "Our data is so complicated, 
you won't understand it,

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and you'll build bad applications
that will make us look bad."

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And our strategy usually
is to just take the data anyway,

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build an application share it with them,
and then their response is usually,

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"Oh, this is pretty cool. 
Can we link to that from our website?"

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And then, at some point,

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maybe you can start having
a discussion with them.

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But, yeah, I think this is kind
of what we can do as a community.

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We can build little small games
and tools to showcase.

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Okay, there is Wikidata,
and it's pretty cool,

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and you have open data,
and we can build cool things with it,

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but you'll need to give it to us,

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you'll need to publish it 
under a license that we can work with.

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And this is one of the things 
that we try to do at Code for Germany.

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[inaudible], thanks.

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(applause)

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Yeah, thank you.

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Before we open 
the room for questions from you,

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we would like to just open
or ask some questions to you.

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I think that Knut has really described

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the challenges we face quite well.

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But, still, I do think there's a lot
of opportunities in these data,

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and we just need to kind of harvest it
better than we do it right now.

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And so my questions--
and maybe it helps you a bit

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to think about that-- 
is how could we integrate

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more open government data 
into Wikidata in a more structured way.

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Just keeping in mind that the people 
who are kind of providing these data

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are not the experts you may expect.

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And at the same time,

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there already is a WikiProject, 
open government data,

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and I'm not sure if you, Christina
had opened it quite a while ago.

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And I wonder in which way we can

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kind of reanimate it 
and make the best out of it

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because we still have this place,
and we have people

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who are engaged
in the municipalities, in governments,

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to open up data.

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And maybe it's an opportunity

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to just match these different

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languages and expectations.

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So, yeah, I'm open
for any ideas to do that,

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and I'm happy to engage
a bit in that as well.

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So, questions?

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(person 1) Hi, thank you, guys.

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Maybe an idea is one

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we could be taking
from the Wikipedia beginnings,

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where I think it was Matthias Schindler,

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who started
with his Content Liberation Army.

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And the idea that,
you know, you have to really go in,

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and the data is there.

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But for example, 
I had a project with a student

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where we were looking

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at where the trees
are geolocated in Berlin,

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and this is sometimes on paper,
it's sometimes on a stupid database.

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We were accused of being terrorists

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by the people who didn't want
to give us the data.

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We had to get really, really 
picky about this and point to the laws

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saying, "This is open data, 
and you have to give it to us."

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but we have to sort of go in friendly,
as you were saying

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and try and explain to them
what they will have from it.

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Many of them don't see
that they have a use of it

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because it's more work for them
having to deal with us.

247
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:07,510
I think that's one
of the main kind of fears

248
00:15:07,510 --> 00:15:12,645
which is there are coming people
who are just putting more work onto us.

249
00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:17,080
And at the same time,
there's so little understanding

250
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,910
that this is just part
of what they are doing already.

251
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:25,260
And that they can really also

252
00:15:25,260 --> 00:15:28,040
learn and get a lot of input

253
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,660
from the people 
who are asking about that data.

254
00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:32,550
But this is really culture change,

255
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:35,570
a cultural change 
especially here in Germany.

256
00:15:35,570 --> 00:15:38,840
So we are working on it.

257
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,330
We are working hard,
but it's really kind of a tough thing.

258
00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:44,820
- Maybe I can add? 
- Yes.

259
00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:46,642
I think what's also 
really interesting to see

260
00:15:46,642 --> 00:15:47,962
from the community's perspective

261
00:15:47,962 --> 00:15:49,700
is that when we talk to different cities,

262
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:52,060
it so depends on who happens
to work in the cities.

263
00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:54,440
Like we have this very small city of Moers

264
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:55,913
that is very unknown,

265
00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:58,411
but if you talk to people
in the open data community,

266
00:15:58,411 --> 00:15:59,870
everyone will know it

267
00:15:59,870 --> 00:16:03,820
because they happen to pay someone
to do work on open data.

268
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,150
And when I talk to people
from the government in Berlin,

269
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:12,442
they tell me, "Okay, I now know
I have to publish open data,

270
00:16:12,442 --> 00:16:17,040
but I don't know how, for whom, or why.

271
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,770
And I think this is actually

272
00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:27,750
a chance for the smaller cities
to kind of champion this idea

273
00:16:27,750 --> 00:16:29,930
because it's so much easier for them

274
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:33,170
to kind of get a movement 
and to liberate some data

275
00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:36,550
where if we talk in Berlin,
we always need to talk to 12 districts,

276
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:39,150
and they'll never align 
on what data they want to publish.

277
00:16:47,005 --> 00:16:48,617
(person 2) And we have a remote comment

278
00:16:48,617 --> 00:16:50,150
from Beat Estermann

279
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:54,120
who wants to point out
he has some links in Etherpad

280
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,620
about "Interest in open government data 
helps Swiss authorities

281
00:16:57,620 --> 00:17:00,950
prioritize base registers
and controlled vocabularies."

282
00:17:00,950 --> 00:17:02,950
And I'm told he just came in

283
00:17:02,950 --> 00:17:05,280
while I'm reading his Etherpad entry.

284
00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:09,170
So if you could just take the mic from me.

285
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:13,170
(person 2) Go on.

286
00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:15,260
(Beat) Okay, thank you.

287
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:17,680
I missed the first introduction.

288
00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:20,460
What did you start on?

289
00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:23,220
- (person 2) I was just reading--
- (Beat) Oh, you were reading. Okay.

290
00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:26,150
So we're currently running--

291
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:28,820
In Switzerland, we're running a survey

292
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,640
to kind of prioritize data
from within the government.

293
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,710
There are like base registers
or controlled vocabularies.

294
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:42,544
Because we think 
that they would be crucial

295
00:17:42,544 --> 00:17:46,480
to actually promote and boost 
the publication of linked open data

296
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,280
across the public authorities,

297
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,240
so we're running a server 
to prioritize them.

298
00:17:51,610 --> 00:17:56,730
And for some authorities 
to know which ones to publish now

299
00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:58,220
and for others--

300
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,850
for the community to know 
where to put pressure on

301
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:03,390
and how to actually,

302
00:18:04,550 --> 00:18:07,220
yeah, argue why they should publish it.

303
00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:09,620
We're also collecting use cases.

304
00:18:09,620 --> 00:18:13,480
I posted the link to the Etherpad.

305
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,060
It's in German and French only,
the questionnaires.

306
00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:20,130
I'm sorry we're still not like up

307
00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:23,620
five language count here,
but you said four languages-

308
00:18:24,085 --> 00:18:25,550
(person 3) Just switch to English.

309
00:18:25,550 --> 00:18:28,050
(Beat) Yeah, we could switch
to English, right.

310
00:18:29,710 --> 00:18:31,800
Yeah, so that's one point.

311
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,400
The other point I think is we could...

312
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:37,860
and I'll put a little bit more love

313
00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:41,910
into kind of documenting
the whole Wiki project,

314
00:18:42,810 --> 00:18:44,080
open common data,

315
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,130
and that's something
we're not really doing

316
00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:50,680
if you compare it 
to what is going on in GLAM.

317
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:55,820
I think that is definitely something

318
00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:59,680
which I probably will try to figure out

319
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,660
after my vacation time,

320
00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:07,350
which is starting on Monday.

321
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:11,147
There is this WikiProject,

322
00:19:11,147 --> 00:19:15,010
and we need to figure out
who is interested in it

323
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:17,750
what can we do there,

324
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:20,660
and how can we motivate people

325
00:19:20,660 --> 00:19:25,310
from kind of [out] the Wikidata community

326
00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:28,970
to add this important information to that.

327
00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:32,040
So I do think there is a huge opportunity

328
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:36,423
to figure out how we can include

329
00:19:36,423 --> 00:19:42,710
more of this really, really valuable 
and reliable data into Wikidata.

330
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:46,330
But overall, there's a lot
of challenges as well,

331
00:19:46,330 --> 00:19:52,060
and still it's kind of
a different crowd of people,

332
00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:55,310
and we need to figure out
how to bring them together.

333
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:59,600
Any idea is welcome.

334
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,080
(Beat) Yeah, there is another point

335
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,805
which we're currently not focusing on

336
00:20:02,805 --> 00:20:05,760
with this base register
and vocabulary thing.

337
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,930
But what I have had as a request

338
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:11,510
is to be able 
to actually store tabular data

339
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:14,480
and to be able to pull it.

340
00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:16,930
Because it does not make sense

341
00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:21,950
to put like 200 years 
of population statistics from Zurich

342
00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:25,640
into that Wikidata item for Zurich.

343
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:33,770
Maybe I just pick it up 
and just an anecdote from my day work.

344
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:38,400
So I started to introduce Wikidata
to my colleagues.

345
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,080
We are a small team doing open data,

346
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:47,060
and it was fine, 
and they were really, really interested,

347
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:53,110
but in the end we started 
to add some of the population dates,

348
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:56,460
and then, you know, there isn't any order.

349
00:20:56,460 --> 00:21:01,600
So it's so hard to figure out 
if you find a population date

350
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,820
for year Y or X or something,
and if it is still missing.

351
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:11,018
So, of course,
there are still a lot of things

352
00:21:11,018 --> 00:21:13,060
to improve in Wikidata as well,

353
00:21:13,060 --> 00:21:17,400
and tabular data could be one of it also.

354
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:20,840
(person 4) [inaudible] Is it working?

355
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,080
I have a comment on the tabular data.

356
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,040
I remember we had also discussions

357
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,310
with a canton and the city
of Zurich about this,

358
00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:33,050
and that it might make sense to start

359
00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:37,150
discussions on whether
we should maybe consider

360
00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:42,220
setting up a Wikibase
for open governmental data

361
00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:46,170
and having such kind of datasets

362
00:21:46,170 --> 00:21:51,080
and then link them to Wikidata
or link them from Wikidata to them,

363
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,420
because mostly 
the linked open data technology

364
00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:57,050
is actually enabling that

365
00:21:57,050 --> 00:22:00,190
and is one of the key advantages 
of this technology.

366
00:22:00,190 --> 00:22:04,710
It is, of course, something 
that doesn't relate only to OGD data,

367
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:09,080
it's a global divide 
in the whole Wikidata community.

368
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:14,510
Because the larger we make
the central endpoint or the graph

369
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,040
the more difficult it is to handle it--
I think we all agree on that.

370
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,220
So I think there should be
a deeper conversation and discussion

371
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,550
on whether we should
start building this network.

372
00:22:27,550 --> 00:22:30,440
Well, actually, there is already
a network of Wikibases.

373
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,550
We also work in the university
with publications and research data

374
00:22:35,550 --> 00:22:38,020
with our own Wikibase.

375
00:22:39,170 --> 00:22:43,150
Yeah, and then another comment 
about the Wiki projects.

376
00:22:43,150 --> 00:22:48,405
So we continued working
and documenting the materials

377
00:22:48,405 --> 00:22:49,475
of the events,

378
00:22:49,475 --> 00:22:52,760
so we actually now have
two upcoming events in November.

379
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,710
We have a full weekend 
technical training on Wikidata

380
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:59,060
in collaboration 
with the open data Zurich people

381
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:00,460
and the canton of Zurich,

382
00:23:00,460 --> 00:23:04,020
and also Wikimedia Switzerland,
and we have a hackathon.

383
00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:07,000
But I totally agree that it would be great

384
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,660
to start having conversations
with all the participants

385
00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:12,060
that have been listed already
in the project,

386
00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:13,660
and start more discussions,

387
00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:17,660
especially with all the countries
that have many good initiatives,

388
00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:20,210
like Germany, like what you described

389
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:22,440
and start documenting

390
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,170
what are the specific needs
of these institutions,

391
00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:26,310
what are the problems,

392
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:29,907
and what specific tools
we need to develop, or procedures,

393
00:23:29,907 --> 00:23:33,730
that we can help them import
or link data in Wikidata.

394
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:39,510
I think we're out of time.
One last question.

395
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,310
(person 5) So a proposal 
to use Wikibase for that?

396
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:46,371
I'm not sure whether
that actually would solve

397
00:23:46,371 --> 00:23:49,150
this tabular data problem.

398
00:23:49,150 --> 00:23:53,400
And when thinking of statistical data,
like population data,

399
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,150
that is not data
that we want to really edit,

400
00:23:56,670 --> 00:23:58,970
that's data we just want to consume.

401
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,950
So it means we have to ask ourselves

402
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:06,860
whether we want to build in
the capability to actually pull data

403
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:10,150
directly from external third-party
SPARQL endpoints,

404
00:24:10,150 --> 00:24:14,640
and not just from
within this Wikibase ecosystem

405
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,710
that we're planning to build up as well.

406
00:24:16,715 --> 00:24:19,445
(person 4) So I agree
that it doesn't solve the tabular data,

407
00:24:19,445 --> 00:24:20,875
but what I was trying to say

408
00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:23,510
is that the information
that is more specific,

409
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:26,620
it might be the case that we want 
to export it to something else

410
00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:32,970
and I see Wikibase also
as a very good data modeling example.

411
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:37,770
So not only because you want 
to have humans editing,

412
00:24:37,770 --> 00:24:42,040
but also because the whole data modeling 
happening in Wikidata

413
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,130
with all the qualifiers and references

414
00:24:44,130 --> 00:24:47,420
adds a lot to all the datasets.

415
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:50,460
So if we would do it from scratch in RDF

416
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:53,420
we would be missing these features

417
00:24:53,420 --> 00:24:56,480
that Wikidata has, 
and I see it has an advantage.

418
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,300
So that was a reason why I mentioned

419
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:01,400
that it would be very helpful
to maybe think of

420
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,950
for the Wikibases around the OGD data.

421
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:08,370
(moderator) So, I'm sorry,
but I think we just ran out of time,

422
00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:11,150
and I encourage you
to keep talking with our speakers,

423
00:25:11,150 --> 00:25:13,020
[inaudible] during all the conference

424
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:15,370
and please, a round of applause for them.

425
00:25:15,370 --> 00:25:17,150
(applause)

426
00:25:19,627 --> 00:25:20,860
Thank you.