when you eat your body wants to store

food energy because food Energy's coming

in you should store it for a time that

you don't have it and when you are not

eating then insulin falls and you simply

take that food energy that you store it

and you burn it and that's why you don't

die in your sleep like every single

night you don't have to eat muffins

every two hours to survive like it's

okay so if you think about it now we're

eating sort of ten times a day instead

of three times a day so 10 times a day

we're telling our bodies to store fat

it's like store fast or fast or fast or

fat and that's like I wonder why I'm so

fat it's like because you keep telling

your body do that and if you want to

burn fat then you gotta tell it to stop

burning fat and again it's a hormonal

signal it's not a caloric signal it's a

hormonal signal you got to let that

insulin fall because it's when the

enzyme fall that the body's gonna start

burning the glycogen I'm gonna start

burning the body fat if you keep your

insulin high then you'll never do it

because insulin is the signal to to go

high and this is the promo type-2

diabetes because you get this insulin

resistance which means too high insulin

all the time so it gets harder and

harder to lose weight as it goes so then

as you get in sort of like 40 years in

if you're 60 years old and you've been

gaining weight since age 20 for example

you have all the senses and resistance

it keeps it high even though your diet

may be good you have to you have to

fight all those years of insulin

resistance and that's why I also say

that that obesity is really a

time-dependent phenomenon that is the

longer you have it the harder it is

which the Clarke theory completely sort

of ignores that is to say if you gain 10

pounds from where you are right now you

could lose that pretty easily yeah but

if somebody is 65 it's pretty hard to

lose that 10 pounds because they've

always had it and it's this sort of

chronic resetting upwards of this body

set weight that's the problem

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som ni fi x.com dr. funk thanks so much

for coming back on it's great to be with

you again great to be here thanks having

me yeah so that last interview we did it

was let's see not Memorial Day I'm

thinking of membranes day of 2016

oh sure you're wearing your lapel people

we're asking about that in that video

remember that yeah it's like early

November there's a whole week

remembrance week oh yeah yeah yeah papi

the punk people are asking like what's

up with that flower and so we didn't

talk about that so anyway ah yeah okay

almost eighteen months ago and I was

looking through the comments or

thousands of comments cuz there's such

great content that you shared and people

were curious or they one of the top

comments that would keep coming up was

did this doctor really just say that the

calories in calories out model does not

govern whether someone loses weight or

gains weight and so we're talking

offline how there's really no receptors

for calories in their body yeah and this

is the thing that's very strange routine

so you take a concept from physics so

what calories is is that they take a

piece of steak or whatever and they

basically burn it and see how much

energy it is so you can determine how

many calories are in a steak and a piece

of broccoli or a piece of wood for that

matter so you just burn it and see how

much physical energy there

so the body has no receptors it doesn't

measure calories it has no idea how many

calories you eat so if you eat a piece

of wood it might have 10,000 calories

but you're not gonna absorb any of it

because it goes straight through you if

you eat steak

if you it's it's going to have a certain

number of calories if you if you drink

Cola it's gonna have a certain number of

calories if you don't drink diet cola

it's gonna have zero calories but the

body doesn't actually know that because

it has no way of measuring it so it has

no way of responding to it so why would

we think that this is a sort of an

important concept and the only reason we

think that is because we've sort of been

ingrained into us but it's a it's a

concept of physics and it's not a

physiologic concept if you put a hundred

calories of sugar in your mouth versus a

hundred calories of olive oil the

physiologic response is completely and

utterly different so you put that oil

into your mouth and drink it down for

example and there's no insulin response

for example you eat a brownie which is

the same number of calories and insulin

spikes way up so the body responds to

hormones I mean everything runs on

hormones thyroid hormone insulin all

these different hormones and that's how

it knows what to do so when it senses

that you're taking in carbohydrates for

example then insulin will go up if it

senses that protein is coming in insulin

will go up as well as well as something

like mTOR so there's different receptors

for amino acids there's different

receptors for fat there's different

receptors so the fat for example you'll

have cholecystokinin release if you need

a lot of fibrous foods you'll have

stretch receptors in your stomach which

are activated so there are all these

different things that the body does

respond to but calories is not one of

them so therefore it really has no idea

you can look on all these different you

know these diagrams of metabolism that

we've done and you can go on google you

can find you know hundreds of diagrams

of metabolism you see the Krebs cycle

you see acetyl co a you'll see insulin

receptors you'll see all kinds of things

amino acids fatty acids all kinds of

things and in nowhere in the last sort

of five hundred you

of human physiology have we described

the calorie receptor it doesn't exist

right and so the the entire concept is

sort of borrowed from physics and sort

of made a little bit of sense not a lot

of sense but it just kept being repeated

repeated repeated so people think that

is true but again 100 calories of

broccoli is not the same as a hundred

calories of donuts that's just the

bottom line and we all try and pretend

that it is but it isn't and that's where

we've really failed so if you believe

that calories is what's really important

then all you need to do is switch over

and drink diet soda and have that fake

fat olestra that we used to have eat

fake food with zero calories switch and

there are lots of things we've done it

for sort of 30 years that I mean diet

cooks been around for a long time and

there would be no obesity crisis but

it's worse than ever so it's like okay

well you know what people never really

get is that the bottom line is that you

have to have results if you think that

cutting calories is what's really

important and we've told people this is

important for the last sort of 20-30

years well what's happened well obesity

has gone like through the roof so

clearly this entire notion is completely

false and that's where we're getting

into trouble because we're following the

wrong path we're so obsessed with

calories that we forget about everything

else we say yeah you can eat doughnuts

for dinner because it's the same number

of calories as if you had that kale

salad like you've got to be an idiot to

think that eating doughnuts for dinner

is a good idea and equally as fattening

as eating kale salad there's nothing the

same about them the minute it goes into

your mouth there's nothing the same

about those two foods so you got to

follow the physiology rather than this

sort of foreign notion of physics that

we've sort of imported in I mean why

don't we say for example that it's all

dude the weight of food if you eat half

a pound of food you will gain half a

pound of weight

you know depends what you're eating in

the hormone response yeah exactly and I

mean that's the law of thermodynamics to

first law of thermodynamics you can't

gain a pound of weight if you've only

eaten a pound half a pound of food if

you've eaten half a pound of food you

must weigh half a pound more there's

simply no way around it of course that's

stupid because you get metabolism

there's metabolism something that's

going to be exhaled as carbon dioxide

something's gonna go through your stools

there's all this physiology that happens

when when when you go from physics to

physiology but but you know the whole

calories thing is just like it's just so

engrained into us from like we're from

the time we're like 2 years old that we

really can't let go of this notion and

that's where we're really really getting

into trouble yeah do you think part of

that is the food industry because people

go to the grocery store buy packaged

food so they look at calories and so

it's like indelibly inked I mean it's

gonna take a long time for you on a

hundred thirty it was all driven by the

food industry in my mind because it's

not driven by the scientists other than

know what those who have been paid off

by the industry because what they want

to do is equate in our minds that it's

all calories so that you can say you can

eat doughnuts for dinner and then hey

why don't you buy these doughnuts

there's a lot tastier than that salad

you're gonna eat and if it's 200

calories of doughnuts and 200 calories

of salmon hey same thing it's like

cheaper it tastes better just eat that

doughnut and it's great so of course

they they love this sort of idea and the

beverage business for example it's like

yeah you can drink Gatorade and then go

bicycle for an hour and you'll work it

all off it's the same it's all

equivalent when you try and make them

equivalent what you don't understand is

that if you drink that sugary drink

you're gonna get fatty liver you're

gonna get insulin resistance you can

exercise your muscles but you can't

exercise your liver your livers dying

your muscles are doing great so it's

like okay well in the end you get all

these athletes like Professor Tim Noakes

who's running marathons to marathon

after marathon and then gets type-2

diabetes it's like okay well how does

that work it works because the whole

calories notion is

Falls and that's one of the things that

we have to understand yeah maybe it's

you know maybe I over exaggerated a

little bit

for a fact but you really can't use that

calories notion it's not a helpful

notion and if it was we would be doing a

lot better than we are sort of today

mm-hmm and in the longer term at the

demon illogical studies have teased this

out and and reducing calories effects

resting metabolic rate which I want to

get into but first is two kind of two

examples you know I want to talk about

insulin and then also if someone is

eating the right amount of

macronutrients but is in a calorie

excess but yet it's keeping their

hormones in balance so we've seen this a

lot of people on the internet are doing

like 5,000 or 4,000 calorie a day keto

you know diets and they're not gaining

fat because their hormones are

imbalanced so yeah how do you feel about

that I think you can do it now it all

depends on what happens you got to

realize that for most of sort of human

history people didn't count calories

calorie intake varies widely know nobody

eats sort of like 2,000 a day every

single day honestly I have no idea how

many calories I eat in a day and most

people don't either they even if they

try and count it they're wildly

inaccurate the idea is that the body

works as a negative feedback loop and

that's how we maintain stable weight so

look let's go back to the 60s the

sixties nobody's exercising and weight

is quite stable for the most part in a

very good range like in a non obese or

overweight sort of a range so how does

that work because if you think that you

can match your calorie expenditure in

your intake to that degree that sort of

2% of the population is obese but you're

taking 2,000 calories a day in a year

times 365 it's you know 70,000 calories

in a year a pound of fat is roughly

3,000 calories so you're matching it to

less like sort of a 99.5 percent

accuracy without any idea of how many

calories are either either

spending it's like there's no way that's

possible so there's obviously a negative

feedback loop and what that is it's like

a thermostat so a thermostat is a

perfect example of a negative feedback

loop so you set your temperature at say

72 degrees which is room temperature if

it's summer and it's hot then the the

thermostat senses it's too hot and turns

on the air-conditioning brings it back

to 72 if it's winter and it's really

cold temperatures in the house drops to

69 degrees

these thermostat senses that turns on

the heat brings it back up so it's a

negative feedback loop and that's a

perfect example of homeostasis the body

does exactly the same thing and there's

a very similar body set way so we have a

a mechanism in our body that determines

how fat we get so if you get too fat

you're gonna you're not going to survive

because you're not going to be able to

catch food or somebody's going to eat

you if you get too skinny you're also

not going to survive because you can't

take it when there's no food like the

wintertime there's no food you're gonna

die so the body actually sets a certain

set weight which is defended very

vigorously actually so if you get too

fat your body will actually turn on and

try and burn off those calories and

we've proved that through lots of

studies so if you deliberately over feed

people to gain 10 percent body weight

they'll actually burn 500 calories per

day more than if they're at their normal

weight then you drop them to their

normal weight and their basal metabolic

rate goes back to the same one if now

you make them lose 10 percent of their

body weight they're actually burning 300

calories a day less than they did when

they were normal weight so you see that

the basal metabolic rate goes up and

down depending on where it is but the

body has this mechanism that if you get

too fat it's going to burn it off

burn off those calories so we get back

to normal weight the more sort of

situation we deal with more is that

you're trying to lose weight then the

body tries to make you gain that weight

back so the key is not to look at the

calories so let's take an example of the

thermostat mm-hmm we know there's a

there's a negative feedback loop there

if you

temperature of 72 degrees and it gets

too hot then what's gonna happen is that

the body will turn on the

air-conditioning if you for example put

in a bunch of heaters you can bring it

back up so say you're at 72 degrees and

you say okay now I want to be 75 degrees

but instead of changing that thermostat

you just bring in a couple of heaters

well that's great you go from 72 to 75

then the thermostat is going to turn on

the AC and then it's gonna bring it back

down to 72 so you say okay well that

didn't work so instead of one heater

I'll bring in two heaters you bring it

up to 75 it brings it back down and you

keep fighting yourself that's exactly

what we do with our body so we have a

say say our body set weight is 200

pounds we don't want to be 200 pounds we

want to be a hundred and eighty pounds

so you lose weight you count your

calories you lose weight go down to 180

and what does the body do well the body

makes you hungry and then it slows down

your metabolism in an effort to get back

up to the 200 pounds so then you say

okay well now you know I've got a lot of

willpower so I'm gonna cut my calories

even further so you cut your calories

further and what happens the body makes

you hungrier and it slows down your

metabolic rate even more so you're

constantly fighting yourself rather than

adjusting that body set wait so it's not

about calories it's about this body's

that way because the way it worked is

that insulin is going to make you gain

fat but if your fat cells expand to a

certain point they're going to generate

leptin so leptin goes into the brain and

it says hey we're too fat and turns down

the appetite right down okay so as your

appetite goes down you don't eat if you

don't eat insulin goes down so perfect

here is your negative feedback loop hi

there it's me again with a quick

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qualify now let's dive back into the

show you eat insulin goes up when you're

too fat left and turns on and turns off

the insulin so it works perfectly what

happens though is that if you've

hijacked that mechanism now listen you

you stimulate insulin all the time so

you go to 1977 the government says eat

lots of Brad because remember they said

eat 50 percent carbs 55 to 60 percent

carbs right if they're eating broccoli

you're good but if you're eating white

bread and you should see the original

Dietary Guidelines they're all white

bread and you know spaghetti yeah and so

you're supposed to eat that five or six

times a day so insulin is going through

the roof but not just that but people

went from eating three times a day to

six times a day that wasn't in the

guidelines but that did happen so now

you're stimula every time you eat

assuming you eat a mixed meal

you're gonna stimulate insulin assuming

you have some carbs some proteins on fat

yeah you're gonna stimulate insulin so

not only are you stimulated insulin more

you're stimulating it all the time so

what happens is that if you stimulate

insulin all the time you get insulin

resistance your fat cells get big it

turns on leptin leptin if you stimulate

all the time you get leptin resistance

same thing we know that because in

obesity what you have is not a lack of

leptin but a total lack of response so

it's a leptin resistance state so now

your negative feedback loop is

completely busted because insulin you're

eating a diet lots of carbs eating all

the time

your insulin is going up through the

roof and leptin goes up but there's no

response so now your your negative

feedback loop is busted and you're just

going to gain weight so that thermostat

that bodyweight thermostat is gradually

getting reset upwards

higher and higher and higher exact yeah

and then if you simply try so so the

important thing is that how do you reset

that well it's a balance between insulin

and leptin you can't do much about

leptin so you really got a attack the

the infant side and really lower it but

if you simply say and here's where we

made a huge mistake so you're eating

2,000 calories a day now you say okay I

want to cut 500 calories I'm gonna cut

the fat out because that's what the

government told them I'm gonna cut the

fat high calorie weight so the coke

calorie thing is like okay I've cut my

calories because I've cut so much fat

out of my diet that fat had no

practically no insulin response anyway

yeah and instead of eating three times a

day I'm gonna eat six or seven times a

day because somebody told me that you

have to eat all the time

you should eat six meals a day so not

only are you you're not affecting your

insulin because you're eating foods that

are getting reading the same insulin

effect and you're getting more insulin

effect because you're eating all the

time so you're eating less calories for

having the same insulin in fact and then

wondering why your weight is going up

because you never corrected the problem

which is this balance between insulin

and leptin you need to get your insulin

low for a significant amount of time and

keep get your you're left to get low and

that takes a long time because that is

reset upwards very very gradually so if

you think about standard sort of common

obesity it's about a pound of weight

gain one to two pounds per year which

adds up over three decades sort of thing

but that's it this gradually reset

upwards so can you move it all back down

in like a month and a half not really

it's it's a long term process there's

this really fascinating study about

eating habits and

the things that I've always talked about

in you know in the obesity code is that

it's not simply what we eat so if you

look at the foods that we should eat

there's there's really not that much

disagreement nobody really thinks you

should be eating a lot of white bread

anymore

so if you look that we all sort of agree

unprocessed foods are good natural fats

are sort of back so there's less you

know avocados and nuts it's not that

much controversy around the edges like

saturated fat and so on there's still

some controversy but if you look at what

people say you should eat it's not that

it's not that different the thing I've

never talked about is the when to eat if

you look at nineteen seventy seven how

often people are eating it's about three

times a day so I grew up in to some

needs a breakfast lunch dinner you

wanted to stack your mom said no you

can't have a snack we don't have snacks

and you're gonna ruin your dinner you

want an after-dinner snack they're like

no if you got hungry yes buddy you

should be more dinner that exactly what

they would have said and if you look at

the latest data so 2004 2005 the Ann

Haynes study which is this giant sort of

American survey it's closer to six times

a day average in 2005 sorry a couple of

years ago they had this really

interesting study where they gave

somebody a smartphone app and people

would just record when they ate and how

much they ate sort of thing and they

looked at how often people ate and they

broke it in by deciles so each the top

10% of people in the bottom 10% so the

the bottom 10% the peep that the 10% of

people who ate the least frequently

averaged 3.3 times hmm that is 90% of

people ate more than three times a day

it's and and the top 10 percent of

people how often they it was ten times a

day

well it's ridiculous we're eating all

the time so again if you think about it

the way human nutrition is is not that

complicated when you eat your body wants

to store food energy because food

Energy's coming in you should store it

for a time that you don't have it

and when you are not eating then insulin

falls and you simply take that food

energy that you store it and you burn it

and that's why you don't die in your

sleep like every single night it's like

yes you don't have to eat muffins every

two hours to survive like it's okay but

that's the way nutrition is so if you

think about it now we're eating sort of

ten times a day instead of three times a

day so 10 times a day we are telling our

bodies to store fat

it's like store fast or fast or fast or

fat and that's like I wonder why I'm so

fat it's like because you keep telling

your body do that and if you want to if

you want to burn fat then you got to

tell it to stop burning fat and again

it's a hormonal signal it's not a

caloric signal it's a hormonal signal

you got to let that insulin fall because

it's when the insulin fall that the

body's gonna start burning the glycogen

gonna start burning the body fat if you

keep your insulin high then you'll never

do it because insulin is the signal to

go high and this is the promo type-2

diabetes because you get this insulin

resistance which leads to high insulin

all the time so it gets harder and

harder to lose weight as it goes so then

as you get in sort of like 40 years in

if you're 60 years old and you've been

gaining weight since age 20 for example

you have all this insulin resistance

then of course the whole problem is that

you have all this insulin resistance it

keeps it high even though your diet may

be good you have to you have to fight

all those years of insulin resistance

and that's why I also say that that

obesity is really a time-dependent

phenomenon that is the longer you have

it the harder it is which the Clarke

theory completely sort of ignores that

is to say if you gain ten pounds from

where you are right now you could lose

that pretty easily yeah but if somebody

is 65 it's pretty hard to lose that ten

pounds because they've always had it and

it's this sort of chronic resetting

upwards of this body set weight that's

the problem

so actors in Hollywood do it all the

time you see people they gain like ten

for their 20 pounds for a roll and then

they drop it and no no no biggie yeah of

course

they just gained it like two weeks ago

they can lose it no problem right

because their setpoint was relatively

normal go there's that points here it

takes time it hasn't really gone up but

they force-fed themselves to gain that

weight for whatever movie role they have

to do so their body weights here but

their set points here so then they

simply stop eating because lectins too

high they stop eating because they

really don't want to eat and they just

drop and we saw that in experiments with

in the 1960s with the overfeeding

studies so those are fascinating because

they took these college kids and they

said we want you to gain weight so this

was an interesting story because Ethan

Sims he wanted to study obesity so he

said okay well you know what I'll make

these rats gain weight so you just gave

him food and they wouldn't gain weight

when they're full they stopped which is

exactly what happens in in in like the

1960s of course people ate until they're

full and they stopped the key of course

is they're not eating all the time but

they so he thought okay well I can't

make these rats get fat that's weird

I thought it is pretty easy so he got

these college kids and I said I want you

to gain like 10 percent of your weight

and they all thought it'd be easy and

they couldn't do it they couldn't gain

weight so he went to prison and he said

okay I'm gonna take these people in

prison and make them gain weight he he

made sure they didn't exercise too much

he had people watch them as they ate

because you know their liberties were

being restricted so they gained weight

but is really really hard there's one

guy he eventually gained sort of 25

percent of his body weight he was eating

10,000 calories a day well so you think

okay what's going on he normally 820 500

calories a day for example he went up to

10,000 but as you went up to 10,000 his

bodies that way was down here and his

body is actively trying to burn off all

those calories that are coming in now

you can't make up that many calories so

he did gain weight that's what happened

he said when the experiment stopped his

body set weights down here he's up here

boom he lost all that weight in like two

months without effort

it's crazy that's crazy well you know a

lot of bodybuilders not in review but a

lot of bodybuilders use insulin for to

put on mass you know because you you're

at 190 pounds you want to be a

professional onstage at 285 there's a

long way to go right so they used

insulin a lot of anabolic sex you rev up

so that they can physically eat down

much food

yeah so it's crazy um you know a lot of

people will say like oh I just have a

sluggish metabolism and I remember

reading some studies about that like

overweight people their metabolisms not

slow they're just storing more than

they're burning you know yeah so that's

really interesting about like you know

increasing the food intake the body will

compensate and will speed up resting

metabolic rate but one thing that how

can we mentally unravel the difference

between calorie restriction like you

know I want to lose whatever how many

pound so I'm going to only eat 1200

calories per day and intermittent

fasting and how calorie restriction

reduces your resting metabolic rate but

intermittent fasting does not help us

like navigate that yeah that's a common

question and the point is that calorie

restriction first of all the body really

has no idea what the hell you're doing

so you restrict calories but the body

does whatever it wants because it

responds to hormones intermittent

fasting is not about how many calories

you eat it's about the time that you're

not eating so you're not eating for 12

hours or 16 hours or 24 hours or 7 days

and people always think that you know if

I only eat once a day for example and I

eat 1200 calories well that's exactly

the same is about 1200 calories through

that day no the difference is that if

you you know let's do a thought

experiment yeah if you eat sort of you

know I equal sized portions of food sort

of every hour you know throughout the

whole day is that really the same as

eating that one portion through that

whole all at one sitting and it's not

really because every time you kind of

stimulate your insulin to go up and you

keep telling your body to gain weight

when you drop your insulin enough what's

gonna happen is that you're going to

tell your body to switch fuel sources

okay so when you're eating all the time

you're fueling your body on the food

that's coming in so you eat two thousand

calories you burn two thousand calories

that's all food that's kind of going in

and out and it's going through the

short-term storage and the glycogen sure

but if you let your insulin fall low

enough then what happens is that you

switch into burning fat so after you get

through your glycogen then you get into

your body fat and that's where you start

to see the ketones and all this sort of

stuff but you know that you're burning

fat so for example if you're switching

fuel sources there's no reason for your

body to slow down so again let's take

some numbers so if you have a 2,000

calories a day and you eat 1,200 but

you're eating all the time and you're

you're keeping your insulin high either

because you're injecting it or you have

insulin resistance and your insulin

slicer insulin is high insulin blocks

like pollicis so what that means and

we've known this again for 50 years

insulin stops you from burning fat why

because insulin is telling your body to

gain fat so you don't want to burn fat

and gain found at the same time so we

say insulin inhibits lipolysis so if

insulin is high but you're only taking

1200 calories you have no access to your

fat stores right because it blocks like

pollicis insulin is high you can't burn

fat so all you have coming in is 1200

calories all you can burn is 1200

calories your metabolic rate must slow

down

in order for you to survive because you

don't want to die hmm what happens now

if you allow your innocent to drop say

you go on a 7 day fast and so you have

zero calories coming in for seven days

and I choose this not because I

recommend it it's pretty it's fairly

extreme in some cases but if you have

insulin resistance at least I know you

your insulin will fall so as your

insulin falls then you're gonna switch

from burning food to burning fat that's

what's supposed to happen so if your

body now sees okay I'm burning body fat

there's like tons of this stuff yeah why

do I need to slow down my metabolism

in fact if you look at the physiology of

fasting it actually maintains the

metabolic rate because as insulin Falls

you get a counter regulatory hormone

surge and again this is sort of basic

physiology insulin Falls the body

increases sympathetic tone so the

sympathetic nervous system adrenaline

and noradrenaline growth hormone and

cortisol we know that that's pretty

basic because that's trying to get the

glucose back out from the liver into the

blood and those hormones the sympathetic

nervous system adrenaline cortisol

growth hormone are trying to push the

glucose out well what do you think

adrenaline does that's not slowing your

metabolic rate right it's pumping it up

and why does growth hormone go up but

growth hormone is there because you have

a period of gluconeogenesis at around 24

hours if you look at the physiology of

fasting the glycogen stores which are

chains of glucose in your liver that's

the first sort of stuff you go to when

you burn through your glycogen it lasts

for 24 hours at 24 to 36 hours roughly

you're gonna burn protein and that's

where everybody says all your burning

muscle know you're burning protein

that's not necessarily muscle there's a

lot of excess connective tissue there's

a lot of excess fat that you should burn

if you look at those you know

documentaries of people whose weight

they have all this excess skin

yeah well that needs to be burned and

you want to burn that that's not bad

thing that's a good thing you want to

get rid of that same thing with the

Tophet you you want to get rid of this

protein but if you keep getting rid of

protein and never putting it back in

that's not good either so what does a

body do the body's not that stupid what

it does is it pumps up growth hormone

like you can't believe it goes up like 3

to 5 fold on a 5 day fast Wow

and what it means is that when you eat

again you're gonna rebuild that protein

but not the protein that you didn't need

that excess skin that you didn't need

the stuff that you do need the same

thing for @rg same thing for cancer

cells same thing for all

timers plaque and so on you actually

have the ability to break down this

protein that you don't want and that's

why a lot of these people there's a lot

of research going on into a tappa G

caloric restriction in terms of

longevity I mean there's a whole calorie

notion which is not really physiologic

but it's the same thing you really want

to burn off this excess protein that's

not making it good because the if you

don't ever let your body break down this

protein you can't actually build new

protein because it's like if you have a

bathroom that you want to renovate the

first thing you got to do is pull out

that sort of avocado green tub that was

sitting from the 1970s if you don't pull

out that tub you can't put in a nice new

clawfoot tub you have to get rid of it

first yeah then that's the way the body

works if you look at turnover of bone

there's osteoclasts and osteoblasts the

first thing you do when you remodel BOE

is chew up the old bone then you lay

down new bone and that's healthier then

keeping the old crappy bone there just

like that old avocado green top so you

have to break it down to rebuild it and

that's what fasting does it actually

breaks down the protein growl hormone

goes through the roof and so does

noradrenaline and some people have so

much energy they're like I can't sleep

I'm like waking up at like 3 a.m. and

you know doing all this work I'm like

one is like that's great if you want but

if you can't then like yeah you know

that's just one of the things that

happens but what you're doing you're

allowing access to those energy stores

those fat stores remember fat is simply

food that's stored away for you to use

when there's no food available now that

you've dropped your insulin you're

allowing bought your body to access all

those huge stores of energy and the

body's going crazy and it's like yeah

I'm going crazy I'm gonna do this so it

burns it all off and at the same time

it's breaking down this protein when you

eat again growth hormone is so high

you're going to rebuild your protein so

when you look at clinical studies of

weight loss

you actually get much better retention

of lean mass with an intermittent

fasting strategy than a standard sort of

cut 500 calories per day and these are

the sort of myths that are out there

the myth that your metabolites going to

go down it's actually the exact opposite

fasting does much better in terms of

preservation of metabolic rate oh you're

gonna lose all this muscle it's

completely false it's actually the

opposite

if you try to lose weight with standard

calorie restriction compared to

intermittent fasting and the studies are

there then you will do much better by

doing the fasting because you're you're

cycling the the sort of energy source

you're just you're allowing your body to

access those energy stores rather than

keeping insulin hiding it away and then

saying okay you can use whatever energy

is coming in through the mouth and it's

like 1,200 calories while you burn 1200

calories and that's the real problem is

that the body and we saw this in the

Biggest Loser so these Biggest Loser

diets so they lose a lot of weight yeah

and a lot of fat which is great but the

problem is that the metabolic rate just

kind of sank like a stone so yeah and

one poor guy who is burning 3400

calories a day went down to like 1800

calories and what does a man drop that's

a massive drop yeah I mean he he lost a

lot of weight too but then the problem

is that the body's used to burning this

amount of calories so say say you

normally take 2,000 calories then you go

on this 1,500 calorie a day caloric

restriction diet your body now can only

burn 1,500 because you haven't dropped

your insulin you haven't solved this

sort of hormonal imbalance you're trying

to solve this kauri imbalance but it's

not a calorie imbalance you got the

wrong problem she got the wrong solution

so you drop your calories now the body

insulin is still high because you're

cutting fat and you're eating six times

a day so your insulin is high you have

no access to body fat you instead of

burning 2,000 you're burning 1,500 guess

what you're gonna feel cold you're gonna

you feel sluggish your hair may fall out

your nails might get brittle because

everything takes energy your heart needs

to pump your blood pressure your

liver your kidneys and you've put them

on this sort of restriction so you're

cold and then your body makes you hungry

you know that Gowland goes up your body

makes you hungry because it wants to get

backed up to that that weight and your

metabolic rate slowing so you feel cold

you feel tired you hunt feel hungry you

feel like crap and you've stopped losing

weight because your metabolic rate has

gone down not to 59 that usually goes

down to like 1450 or something like that

yeah so now you're actually starting to

regain that weight so you're on 1,500

calories your body's move this metabolic

rate from 2,000 to 1450 you're regaining

that way you said forget it I'm going to

go back up to 1,700 calories

now you just pile on the weight because

you're still at 1450 mm-hmm and you're

still feeling it like crap because

you're used to burn 2,000 and your

weights all back to where it was

it's like sound familiar yeah well guess

what that's what every single dieter

does why not instead do the intermittent

fasting drop your insulin levels very

low for a period of time whatever time

it is 16 hours 24 hour whatever it is

during that time you allow your body to

burn stored food energy hey why does it

need to change from 2000 so this is the

difference between calorie restriction

of 1200 calories and eating one time or

1200 calories in you know one day is

that you're taking 1200 calories for

example from food and 800 calories from

body fat because you've dropped your

insulin and allowed your body to access

that body fat now your body's like yeah

I'm gonna burn 2,000 because I want to

whereas before when your insulin is high

you've blocked it off and you can only

burn 1200 and that's the difference

between sort of intermittent fasting and

just calorie restriction and you can see

why one works and one doesn't work

you're simply allowing your body to

access the stored food energy that's on

your body and guess what

that's what is therefore that's what

body is the body fat is there for it's

not there for looks it's there for you

to use

you know it's so brilliant I really

wanted add more into insulin I think

that's a great analogy you know that and

it really underscoring the importance of

the hormonal balance and speaking of

hormones ghrelin is a hormone people

talk about in the context of like why

women shouldn't fast and there was a

study came out that show that ghrelin

reduction was actually better in women

versus men which i think is interesting

yeah that was a fascinating study so

they talked about why women shouldn't

fast and honestly I don't know why

people say that it doesn't really make

any sense I mean if the woman is

underweight or at risk of anorexia sure

that makes sense like you got to apply

everything in a clinical context you're

not gonna put a 16 year old 80 pound

girl on some kind of fasting diet you're

asking for trouble

they might get anorexia nervosa sure but

you put a 250 pound 60 year-old man on

fasting he's not gonna get any sooner

Roza okay so women can fast absolutely

then grrrrrr Allen is so so-called

hunger hormone so the higher it is the

hungrier on and when they look that food

craving so one of the things that we

talk about all the time is people when

they come in the the number one sort of

concern about fasting is hunger they

think I can't do it I'm gonna get so

hungry and what you have to realize is

that when you look at ghrelin over 24

hours if you don't even over 24 hours

you see gorillas spike in a spikes three

times at breakfast lunch and dinner

so we're trained to eat a lot of people

are trained to eat three times a day so

when it comes around to noontime ghrelin

spikes up but he is that doesn't

continue to go up if you don't eat it

actually just drops back down to normal

and anybody who's worked through Dinard

work through lunch

knows this because at twelve o'clock one

o'clock you're hungry but then you're so

busy you're just working you're working

or working by four o'clock it's as if

you ain't there's actually no difference

in hunger if you ate or you didn't eat

why is that well because insulin fell

your body essentially ate lunch out of

your own body fat it's like okay that's

perfect

that's exactly what we want it to do but

the hunger does not keep going up it

comes in waves and I say you got to ride

those waves out because they will come

they'll be dinner time you're gonna get

hungry but if you bribed it out it's

gonna go down so if you look at food

cravings you see the same thing so you

can do these questionnaires and this

study looked at food cravings and they

compared a sort of standard calorie

restriction diet to is sort of ultra

ultra low calorie diet like a couple

hundred calories a day sort of thing and

what they found was that the cravings

essentially disappeared and women versus

men had much higher levels of these

ghrelin spikes and it sort of makes

sense when you talked about people who

are chocoholics and crave these foods

it's women for more than men whom these

sugar cravings and all that and

physiologically you see that the women

have these much higher morale and spikes

and they come right down when you fast

them so again if you have cravings the

important thing is not to say well I'm

gonna eat a little bit because it's like

an itch if you're a parent you know that

you don't touch that edge if you scratch

it it's gonna get worse mm-hmm it's the

same thing with cravings you don't say

okay I'm gonna take a little bit because

it's gonna get worse yeah if you take

those cravings for and it applies to

everything so you have a craving for

sweets if you all of a sudden stop

eating sweets entirely those cravings

actually disappear so fasting is much

more powerful because if you have

cravings for bread and then you just

stop eating bread those cravings will

actually diminish whereas if you just

eat oh I'm just gonna eat a little bit

of bread all the time we're gluten free

bread low carb prayers not your way even

if you reduce the amount of bread that

you eat or sweets that you eat because

you have to take those sort of cravings

down to a zero level take the food down

to the zero level and then the cravings

disappear and that's the real power of

the intermittent fasting and also the

ketogenic diets for example so if you're

eating ultra low carb well after a while

you soon

to get used to it and those cravings for

the carbs go away and that's one of the

sort of keys to a lot of people's

success is that once they stop eating it

they find that they don't really need it

but if you eat it sometimes you're gonna

get those cravings right back they come

right back and and sort of knowing this

is important because then you can say

well you can now use this information to

your advantage because if you know you

have this sort of addictive behavior and

so on you can use these to get rid of

your cravings at the same time do

something which is very healthy and you

know has all these other benefits in

terms of protein breakdown and at off of

G and all these other things yeah and

that and that's the real key is the

having that knowledge allows you to sort

of say okay well I'm gonna do this I'm

gonna do this and this is getting back

to what I was saying is that to me

weight loss is really about sort of two

things what you eat and when you eat and

sort of we talked endlessly and then to

see about the what to eat but the when

to eat is sort of completely ignored so

if you ignore sort of like this huge

sort of fifty or sixty percent of the

problem you're gonna fail because you're

not addressing it because we've gone

from eating sort of three times a day to

somewhere around six to ten times a day

and we think it's good for you right you

see this all the time and the question

is where did this advice that you have

to eat all the time come from food

industry you know fitness and is up

there it sure didn't come from the

doctors because no doctor I know has

ever found any study that proves that

eating six or eight times a day is good

for you and nobody in the history of

humanity has ever done that because they

have work to do yeah yeah feels you have

to go you know plow the fields you're

not spending all your time eating and

yet we think that we shouldn't go more

than a couple of hours without stuffing

cookies in our mouths and we teach our

children this yeah you should look at my

son schedule I mean not anymore but when

they were in like grade school and so on

eat breakfast in the middle of morning a

couple cookies or something lunch after

school those

you know fruit or something dinner and

then you go to soccer and oh in between

the hands Oh another granola bar like

come on you know I used to go out and

play after dinner and it's like you

didn't eat you're busy playing you

didn't have to you don't need to stop to

eat and so you didn't eat anything from

dinner until at least breakfast the next

day if you eat breakfast yeah I deal

with that with my daughter right now and

it seems that there's always a birthday

party some special event and it's always

sugar-based foods yeah my topic for

another conversation but you know I

think it's really you know kind of

fascinating about the ladies you know

that ghrelin spike and so forth and

going back to that just completely I

don't having you know my problem with

diet foods is there's the Paleo Donuts

the low-carb donuts and all this stuff

is emerging for people and like you said

the addition is a kick the habit

obviously we need to enjoy life too and

have a little you know food periodically

but um you know one whatever advise a

heroin addict just take a small little

hit yeah okay just a small like they

have to go cold turkey so that's kind of

an interesting yeah and and and again

the the key is understanding that

there's a difference between these sort

of carbohydrate insulin hypothesis and

the insulin hypothesis the instant

hypothesis says that insulin is one of

the key regulators of

body weight which i think is true what's

not true is that carbs are the only sort

of input into that system and that's

where a lot of people get into these

debates because it's like can you eat

high carb foods and still have low

insulin absolutely so you go back to the

Okinawan for example they're eating 65%

sweet potato diets there there's no

obesity whatsoever you go to the Kitab

and they're eating sort of 65 70 percent

carbohydrates their serum insulin levels

are like five percentile compared to a

Swedish population no obesity

well why is that well a big part of it

is that you're not eating all the time

so even though you're eating cassava and

root vegetables and all this and you got

to remember again in the 1980s in China

all white rice and vegetables

eating 10 times a day there's like

almost no sugar in that diet there's a

lot of carbohydrates so there's you can

look at the the Chinese and some people

say oh they're eating brown rice they're

not eating brown rice like I have

relatives from there everybody's eating

white rice it's all refined grains but

they're not eating all the time they're

eating very little sugar like almost

zero sugar and I think you know for

different reasons

sugar is much much much more fattening

than any other carbohydrate out there

and this is even though you get no

insulin effect of fructose so fructose

has no insulin of fact that has no

glycemic index of fact so people used to

think it's great but it's actually very

very bad for you and I think it's sort

of like 20 times as fattening as say

Brad which has sort of glucose as

opposed to the Frog dose mm-hmm

so there's no sugar in that they're not

eating all the time there's no you know

there's there's all these other sort of

mitigating factors that keep their

insulin low so you can eat a low fat

diet you can eat a high fat diet and

still keep your insulin low and we see

this in traditional societies all over

the world there are societies that are

based on eating meat and they do fine

and there's societies that are based on

eating white rice like China and they're

doing fine obesity wise obesity and type

2 diabetes but yet they're widely vary

in terms of their macronutrients so I

should never tell people to eat you know

to watch the macronutrient I don't think

it's that important but you have to

always keep in mind the insulin effect

and a huge part of that is sort of

frequency of eating and getting that way

down so if three per day is sort of what

people have traditionally done and done

fairly well with that well that's pretty

good but if you've been eating 10 a day

for the last 10 years going back to 3 a

day is not gonna cut it you're not gonna

lose weight like that you got to go

lower than 3 to make up for those surger

10 yeah years of 10 a day and and and

you know just like the you know and this

is where the calories thing in the

insulin thing really overlaps because

again

anything you eat assuming it's a blend

of the three macronutrients is going to

stimulate insulin to some effect and

it's gonna have some calories so there

is going to be an overlap between

calories and insulin effect so that's

where the confusion comes in because

people say oh it's just all about

calories like it's not about calories

there's nothing to do with calories but

there's an overlap between the two but

what when you look at Islan what you say

is that a hundred calories of certain

foods are more fattening than hundred

calories of other foods which is sort of

common sense and what your grandmother

sort of would have told you like she's

not gonna say oh you know eat cookies

and for dinner and I've seen this advice

given help by doctors so if you want

cookies and ice cream eat it instead of

dinner and you'll be fine oh my god God

yeah no clue because you can't hear you

can go or that physiology I mean there's

a whole thing to do a satiety for

example remember that as you eat foods

you're gonna activate certain satiety

signal so if you go to the buffet and

you eat like a lot like way too much and

then you try and eat a couple more pork

chops it's like you'll never do it you

can't do it you can't force the pork

chop down but if you're to eat some

cookie you could easily do that there

were no time for cookies exactly because

there's no satiety effect of those

highly refined grains the sugar the

fructose you're gonna get the calories

you're gonna get the insulin effect but

you're not gonna get any sort of satiety

effect yeah that's why I used to think

it's very strange because you can eaten

lunch in this guy I used to think this

is a kid actually it's very strange that

you can eat lunch or you can eat lunch

with a big soda and you'll feel exactly

the same in terms of fullness but you've

taken a lot more calories when you drink

that big soda it's like I wonder why I

you know you think of for 2,000 calories

I should feel the same amount of fall no

it's completely different and this is

the thing with natural foods is that

they have natural satiety Meck

so if you eat a lot of beans which is

all carbohydrates while you'll stretch

your stomach you'll activate stretch

receptors if you eat a lot of steak

you're going to activate peptide YY

which is for protein you're gonna

activate in cretons which is for you

know another satiety signal you're gonna

activate cholecystokinin which is a

satiety signal

you're gonna activate the vagus nerve

also in terms of stretch receptors so

you can eat something which is very

bulky and feel full or you can eat

something that's very not bulky and feel

full because we have natural satiety

mechanisms and this is part of you know

human physiology because our our we

don't want to die like we don't want to

stuff ourselves so much like you hear

these arguments that oh you know we're

genetically programmed to get fat we

just eat everything in front of our face

it was like you try eating that 60 ounce

steak that you'll get for free if you

eat in an hour

they're not going out of business any

time soon because there's powerful

satiety mechanisms but processing does

is it removes all that so you take flour

so if you're to eat carbohydrates like

beans you're gonna get full even rice

you're gonna get full but not as full as

you might think but now you take flour

you take out all the fats you take out

all the protein because the fat goes

rancid so you don't want to cook rancid

so if you take out all the fat you take

out all the protein you cut down a lot

of the bulk of the fiber well you've

just lost three satiety signals

you've lost those stretch receptors in

the stomach you've lost the the protein

satiety signals and you've lost the fat

satiety signals then you grind it into a

fine powder because you know flour when

you throw it up it's very fine you grind

it into a fine powder then it gets

absorbed super fast so just like okay

and the reason people grind it up is so

that they can get that massive high so

now you grind it up you get this massive

high when you're eating your white bread

now okay so it's fine for a bit and then

two hours later it crashes because

you've just gone spiked up and spiked

down and then you want to eat a

muffin because you had that bagel in the

morning and it's all gone now because

it's gone up and down so that's where

the processing is completely different

as opposed to say even like a potato if

you need a baked potato it's pretty

filling like hard over you does yeah

it's pretty hard I mean when you process

it when you do things like potato chips

and stuff in that deep fryer and that's

alright yeah it changes things yeah but

it's pretty difficult to eat to overeat

a boiled potato like people have put

gone on these potato diets and III

potatoes sometimes it's pretty filling

like that's why this whole meat and

potatoes you know sort of thing is

because the me the potato is actually

one of the highest foods on the satiety

index so if you eat a potato calorie for

calorie you will feel more full than

virtually anything else

hmm it's hard to overeat boiled potatoes

yeah baked potatoes is kind of similar

it's it's pretty hard to overeat that

but again you're activating natural

satiety mechanisms like the potato is

pretty big it's it's gonna fill up it's

gonna activate these other stretch

receptors it has it's almost all starch

so there's very little fat very little

protein but it's gonna activate other

things so the Irish for example ate tons

of potatoes didn't have much of a

problem until recently until the 70s

just like everybody else

so there's there's a lot of things so

yes there's carbohydrates but what's

really important is the insulin because

you can eat a sort of low fat diet high

in carbohydrates and still have low

insulin levels and still have very

little B C and that that wasn't what

came out in the diet fit studied so this

was that study that Chris garner did a

couple of weeks ago I guess it got

released and what it showed was that if

you take people and put on a low fat

diet and a low carb diet they did

roughly equally but it wasn't just any

kind of low low fat diet it's not like

white bread and jam sort of thing it was

all unprocessed foods it was all and you

see that yaki had a period of

yeah yeah also you weren't supposed to

eat all the time yeah and there were

another farmers market yeah exactly

there's a whole lot of stuff in there it

wasn't like go out and eat some of some

pasta and white bread yeah it was this

sort of healthy sort of eat lots of

vegetables and you know there was a

whole lot of it and I was looking at

that study and I was thinking that's

exactly what we tell people you know

unprocessed foods because it's not

simply about the carbohydrates we have

to move past that you have to get into

this sort of insulin because that's the

sort of language the body speaks if

you're speaking about carbs and proteins

and stuff that's not really there's it's

closer to but it's not exactly the

language that the body understands the

body responds to signals which are

hormones so you wanna get your insulin

high the body's gonna gain weight well

you can eat a low fat diet you can eat

low carb diet and still have the same

effect on insulin so that's where I

differ from some of the people in terms

of the carb insulin hypothesis you can

eat a high protein diet for example all

meat diet you can do all of these things

and still get the same effect of low

insulin and therefore less obesity less

type-2 diabetes and that's where

understanding the sort of physiology

gets you around all these debates and

you know tries to understand why people

can eat different diets and still do

well and and that's the that's you know

that's what I try and bring out in the

books is sort of the science and the

understanding to do it yeah great I have

two examples of that definitely one dive

into insulin especially I didn't know

was discovered here in Toronto

yeah super fasting but you mentioned the

satiety signals at Whole Foods garner on

the body and they're kind of lost in the

processing of food and one example of a

remedy that you talk about

I personally am very interested in this

as well I've been studying it for a

while its gastric bypass or bariatric

surgery in the hormonal I'm not a fan of

the procedure saying that it's good for

weight loss but admiring the mechanism

of action through which gastric or

bariatric surgery affects insulin

resistance is really interesting you

take a full-blown insulin dependent type

2 diabetic as you know

12 hours after the procedure they don't

need insulin because they've got

hormones that you mentioned are

upregulated with whole real food are

super physiologic we up regular and so

yeah bariatric surgery is fascinating

because it's quite successful and people

used to say well why does it work

maybe it's because you cut out a big

swath of the stomach right you come in

with like 90% of the stomach and

therefore you can't produce certain

hormones well the problem with that is

that you can do gastric banding where

you put a sort of belt around the

stomach and cinch it really tight and

you get the same effect since you're not

cutting out any part of the stomach then

the benefits cannot be from from from

cutting out the stomach and the truth is

that the the effect is simply a severe

caloric restriction you're basically

putting them very close to fasting as

much as you possibly can for months at a

time I mean they're eating so little

that you're you might as well be fasting

so fasting you know the whole point is

to get your insulin down now you're not

eating you can't eat because they've cut

out all your stomach and they've rewired

your intestines so that you you know

even if you eat food it's not getting

absorbed well what's gonna happen well

instance gonna drop and I'm gonna keep

dropping so what's gonna happen is that

your body's gonna burn off all that

sugar or not the sugar diabetes goes

away bad as it burns off all that sugar

then it's gonna burn all that fat and

guess what the weight loss is very very

good so the mechanism is quite easy to

understand once you understand that it's

really about changing the insulin which

is the main hormone it's not the only

hormone that's responsible for weight

gain cortisol is another one but for the

most part it's about insulin so that

once you understand that you can see

this is why Bariatrics is so affected

and sometimes you say well this is

really just medical Bariatrics all these

fasting therapies is just medical

Bariatrics and and but it's not easy

it's not fun and that's really one of

the things that we try to do so we have

a program for this which is the

intensive dietary management program and

people can join and we have sort of so

the website is IDM program com

and if you know we put out a lot of

stuff for free like these sort of videos

and we do podcasts and blog I do weekly

blog post and there's lots of free stuff

and if people can just get the

information and there's the books either

that are very inexpensive or you can

take it from the library so there's a

lot of information out there but

sometimes people want a little bit more

guidance so what we've done is we've

provided sort of a little bit more

guidance question and the answers group

fast because again it's about building

this community of people who will help

each other

and that's one of the secrets of any

kind of behavior change is that you do

better in a group so whether you're

looking at Weight Watchers or Alcoholics

Anonymous the point is that changing

behaviors is difficult to do and if you

have people who will support you your

success rate is going to be much much

higher so we're trying to put together a

community in our membership program that

people can join for a fee and then get

the guidance from sort of trained

professionals that they need they get

the sort of extra extra help that they

need to do it if you can do it on your

own great but most people they get out

that they start fasting and then some

doctor tells them oh god you're gonna

kill yourself and then they're done and

then it's like oh but you know you could

have gained so much with it and then we

also have sort of an additional program

where people will provide sort of small

group sort of in groups of three or four

of course anytime you do that it's much

more expensive because you're getting

sort of personalized care but at least

it's available for you so there's we try

and provide sort of everything from the

free stuff to the books and the podcast

and you know the stuff we're doing here

the you know so that you know I hope

people can just listen and do it

themselves but hey if you if you need

some help or we're also here we can give

you more help if you need it the

membership site is $39 a month I think

and it's like we do these group files

which are very popular so that people

fast all together for three or four days

and it's not necessarily you do the full

four days maybe you do a 24-hour fast

for three days or

but because you're doing it with a group

of sort of supportive people it's easier

and then you get the benefit and and in

school we understand this we call it

peer pressure and it's got a negative

connotation in as adults it's called

peer support because it's like we're

trying to change behavior and you're

joining a group to get the support that

you need and guess what it's like very

very important it's it's actually like

it sounds like it's it's one of these

kind of throw away things but it's

actually as we started doing our program

we've been doing it for about five years

now that was one of the sort of keys to

success was getting people into the

small groups and into the bigger groups

where people can talk about fasting

without getting laughed at essentially

and that's been very important and then

I realized of course that's the whole

secret of Weight Watchers or the biggest

Oprah led company now but their diets

nothing special

it's a decent-enough diet but you could

have gotten that diet anywhere right you

could have gone to any book and gotten

that diet the secret sauce was the peer

support Alcoholics Anonymous again peer

support being out there and we're

fighting such a big fight because the

the conventional dietary advice is to

eat sort of eight ten times a day eat

these low fat foods so we're sort of

swimming upstream in terms of our advice

because we generally advise people to

eat sort of whole unprocessed real foods

often low carbs or not necessarily and

then intermittent fasting whether it's

less than a day or more than a day and

that's where people it gets people's

kind of goat up is that the in term in

fasting really scares a lot of these

people and then they get scared out of

it right away they don't have that peer

support so we're trying to build that in

into our program and if that's what you

need you know we're hopefully providing

it at a fairly reasonable price I mean

if you're if you're skipping a meal I

mean that that's like the cost of you're

gonna come out ahead if you do that

totally that's awesome IDM program comm

program

the show notes in blue this video and

then let's kind of finish off on the

book a little bit a few things a few

that I remember like they're inked in my

head you can't fix a dietary disease

with medicine I might box out a little

bit but I think that's really important

because you know a lot of people don't

realize that traditional medical system

like the solution and for a lot of

traditionally trained practitioners is

insulin more and more insulin and what

happens when you get more and more

insulin yeah the problem is that type 2

diabetes is he really misunderstood

disease by the doctors then what they

don't understand is that they're

treating sort of the blood glucose well

so the blood glucose or blood sugar is

high so they try and get it down if you

give insulin well does that get rid of

the sugar and the answer is no you

simply the insulin takes that sugar

it simply crams it into your liver okay

and then liver turns it into factor de

novo lipogenesis or sends that sugars

everywhere else so sugar goes into your

eyes and your liver into your nerves

into your legs into your heart and what

happens well what happens over decades

is that as you keep cramming the sugar

from that blood you had excess trigger

in the blood you never got rid of it but

you took insulin to cram it into your

body your body sort of just blows up

with way too much sugar and then every

part of your Anatomy just rots so you're

gonna go blind and you get heart attacks

you get strokes and get nerve damage and

get amputations you get diabetic foot

infections and it's like why do

diabetics get infections that nobody

else in the whole world gets go is there

sugar there's so much sugar sitting

around in that foot then you get

infections like yeast infections that

love the sugar and it's crazy because

what it means is that type 2 diabetes is

essentially being treated completely

incorrectly we're treating the blood

glucose so we know the blood glucose is

high because of the type 2 diabetes but

the blood glucose is not the disease

the symptom so if you treat the symptom

but don't treat the disease then you're

not going to get anywhere it's

symptomatic treatment and that's the

real problem we are treating the symptom

and pretending like that's the real

disease so yes we got the blood glucose

down have you treated the type 2

diabetes with your insulin and the

answer is no well everybody knows that

if you lose weight your diabetes gets

better

so insulin makes you gain weight so

right your diabetes not getting better

it's getting worse and the whole point

is that you simply can't take the sugar

in your blood and cram it away where you

can't see it and pretend you're better

you got to get rid of that sugar so in

essence the simplest way to understand

type-2 diabetes is that there's just too

much sugar in the body the body is

overfilled with sugar well if it's

overfilled with sugar then you just

gotta get rid of the sugar what do you

do 1 don't put more sugar in eat a low

carbohydrate diet and number 2 burn it

all off and that's intermittent fasting

so what we've done is we've taken this

dietary disease and instead of treating

the root cause of it which is the diet

we're eating too much too much

carbohydrates predominantly because we

were told to and we're eating too too

many times too frequently but what we've

done is instead of treating the actual

cause of it we tried to drug it we're

trying to drug these people back to

health then we're not treating what was

the actual problem in the first place

and then we wonder why is everybody

getting worse in the worst part is that

the answer that most specialist

researchers give is that type 2 diabetes

is just like that it's a chronic and

progressive disease it's like no it's

chronic and progressive because you

treated it completely wrong the disease

is actually reversible we know that

anybody who loses weight the diabetes

refers to as we knew that from

Bariatrics you can take the most severe

type 2 diabetic and within 2 weeks

they'll be off of all their insulin for

example

because they're basically burning it all

off because they're fasting it's not

really hard to understand if you don't

eat you're gonna burn off that sugar

your blood sugar will drop if your blood

sugar drops you don't need to take

insulin well that's not so hard to

understand but now you're dealing with

the actual problem of sugar overload as

opposed to trying to give more insulin

so here we have a situation which is

sort of mind-boggling that 99% of

diabetics type 2 diabetics in this

country in this world are actually being

treated I think completely incorrectly

and that's why since everybody's getting

worse

the doctors say well it's chronic and

progressive because I gave them insulin

and they got worse

so therefore the disease must be like

that yet at the same time knowing that

this disease cannot possibly like that

because we just proved it with our

bariatric surgery that we could take

this guy do something to him which is

basically fast them for like three

months and make him completely better

everybody who has type 2 diabetes is

reversible except up until the very late

stage that's a fact that we've sort of

proven with our bariatric surgery and

it's a fact that we already knew because

we know that if your friend loses 50

pounds he's gonna get off his diabetic

medication no doctors gonna say oh I

wonder why that happened it's like well

obviously right but so we know this for

a fact that it's a reversible disease

yet we pretend it's chronic from

progressive because we've been doing

such a bad job because we've been using

the wrong treatment interesting when in

your career so you've been practicing

medicine for over 20 years right about

20 years and you talked about in the

book like I know how to make people fat

you know you're in some system give them

insulin at what point did you see enough

patients gain more and more weight when

you were falling the standard of care

that you said this can't be right well

it was it took a little time yeah dogmas

very hard to break and interestingly it

was the patients who all knew they're

all like you know you gave me insulin

I'm gaining weight like crazy here

like how is that good and the answer is

it wasn't good but I didn't know the

answer so I said well you know it's just

the way it is I mean that's that's what

I said that's what everyone else said

too but at some point I mean it was

2008-2009 that we started getting some

of the data that really showed that

giving insulin is not a good idea to

type two diabetics which when you look

back at it is completely sort of

rational that is we know in type 2

diabetes that insulin levels are high so

why are you giving more insulin I mean

isn't that like giving alcohol to an

alcoholic how do you think they're gonna

get better if you give alcohol to an

alcoholic they're they're shaking might

get better but their alcoholism which is

the actual disease gets worse so it's

the same thing you give insulin to

somebody has too much insulin the blood

sugar gets better but the diabetes gets

worse

and that's what we've been doing we've

been treating these addicts with heroin

it's like oh my god and what's scary is

that people are still doing it today

right now and pretending it's the right

treatment it's like oh okay well that's

not a good there's a lot a good idea and

there's like no wonder everybody's

getting worse no wonder the health of

the nation is getting worse because

we've sort of focused on the wrong sort

of quadrant which is we think it's a

drug problem but it's a diet problem we

took type 1 diabetes which is where

insulin very low so if insulin is very

low then give insulin that's a good

treatment citizens very high don't give

insulin that's not a good treatment yeah

you know ladies you said not solving the

root cause of the problem it's not an

insulin deficiency syndrome as type 1

diabetes is you have two receptor gosh

we could go on and talk all about this

stuff I really want to commend you for

all your great work both the books the

obesity code really changed my mind on a

lot of different things particularly

that the time the latency how long

someone has been overweight that that

it's going to affect their weight loss

and I think that's something that people

really need to think about you know

because if they see the lean purse

and get shredded for spring break and

like why I want to do that but they've

been overweight for 35 years so we need

to be realized and that calorie three

theories simply can't explain that

because the calorie theory would say

that if you've been overweight for ten

years or ten days it's the same yeah you

create that caloric deficit and you're

both is a lose weight yeah and everybody

knows that's not gonna happen right

and yet we pretend oh yeah of course of

course it's all about calories it's like

what are you like do you live in the

real world like do you actually treat

people because everybody knows that that

guy who's been overweight for thirty

years that those pounds ain't coming off

yeah like in ten days like like like the

20 year old who gained a few pounds from

a few beers at spring break right so

yeah absolutely that's that's that's the

key to understanding and the

physiologies all been there but it's

been sort of distorted by all of this

sort of you know other interests like

particularly food companies for example

sugary beverage companies who want the

calorie theory to be correct and this is

one of the things that you know we're

really looking to get into is sort of

advocacy to get the sort of conflicts of

interest out of medicine having been in

medicine I realized that there's

actually all these problems like there's

not just pharmaceuticals but you know

the research so we all pretend we live

in this world of evidence-based medicine

the problem is if all the met if all the

evidence is corrupt then evidence-based

medicine is also going to be corrupt so

if all your evidence is produced by

pharmaceuticals is produced by people

getting paid by the sugar industry for

example well you're gonna think sugar is

fine and we have studies that prove that

a funded study so if you fund a study

then you're like something like six to

ten times more likely to finding result

favoring your sponsor well that's just

human nature so we have a guy in Toronto

a dr. Stephen Piper

who is out there all the time saying

sugars good fructose is good it's like a

health food like okay that's really dumb

that's what I'm thinking and then of

course in the newspaper in the National

Post last year which is our national

newspaper it's like oh yeah he takes

hundreds of thousands of dollars from

the sugar industry coca-cola and

everybody I'm like okay makes sense well

here's this makes total sense and here's

the sugar industry funding the

University of Toronto which is happily

taking all this cash they're taking all

this money and producing shoddy research

it's like I don't blame the sugar

company the sugar company or the

pharmaceutical or the big food company I

don't blame them at all because their

responsibility is to sell sugary

beverage that's their responsibility to

the company to their shareholders that's

their whole goal it's out there coke is

there to sell coke that's his job the

problem is that we allow coke to pay the

University of Toronto millions of

dollars to produce crappy research why

do we allow that if you give a New York

City policeman a cold drink he could get

fired because it's a conflict of

interest if you give the judge sort of a

slice of pizza he or she could get fired

for taking that slice of pizza and we

all say of course you can't bribe a

judge whether it's a slice of pizza or a

car it's the same principle mmm the

reciprocity exactly because when I give

you something you're gonna feel better

towards me

that's all human nature so we say okay I

understand this everybody understands

this so therefore you are not nobody is

allowed to give policeman nobody's

allowed to give judges anything but we

say oh yeah if you're a big company you

can give doctors however much money you

want so you look at a journal like the

Journal of the American car

College of Cardiology and the editors

which decide which journals got

published you know what everything is

on average they're taking each over four

hundred thousand dollars a year from

companies and it's like okay I don't

blame the company the company if it if

it means selling more stuff that's what

they should be doing the question is why

do we allow that to happen when it

doesn't apply to anybody else

you can't give four hundred thousand

dollars to a New York Times journalist

they will get fired by the New York

Times they will absolutely get fired you

can't go to some company

I'll call big companies have this rule I

can't go to the Brant bank manager and

say oh hey here's ten thousand bucks

he's gonna give me a loan right he's

gonna get fired or she's gonna get fired

everywhere and in in we know this we put

rules on it but yet when it comes to our

health we say hey dr. Stephen Piper you

can take here's a couple here's $500,000

just do some research on why sugar is

good for you and he produces it and then

people come out and say well the

evidence says that sugar is good for us

it's like isn't that the most ridiculous

situation you've ever heard this is one

of the things that really has to get out

there because if you have differences of

opinion between scientists that's fine

that's how science works everybody has a

different opinion I don't mind that's a

look the vegans have a different opinion

than I do that's fine the problem is

when you get all these sort of

commercial interests in it but it's not

a problem for the commercial interests I

mean the drug companies they're allowed

to do it so they should do it and they

will do it because that's what they are

stated their stated goal is the stated

goal is to sell more drug right what we

have to do is we have to be on our you

know political you have to get political

and really say okay we shouldn't

allowing any of this anybody who teaches

students medical students teaches at the

university it's not allowed to take

money like

it seems like a no-brainer yeah

they take hundreds of thousands of

dollars every single one of them these

programs that the the pharmaceuticals

put out they pay a doctor fifteen

hundred dollars to give an hour-long

talk lots of doctors do it the more

prominent the more money they get they

pay editors of large journals like

hundreds of thousands of dollars each to

get their research into it the studies

are all produced by drug companies and

we know that if that's the case then

it's more far more likely to be biased

and then and the whole thing and people

complain about oh you know it's big

sugar and big tobacco and big meat it's

like that's the first thing we should be

doing this saying we need new rules

nobody's allowed to pay university

professors any kind of money you want to

be a university professor you want the

privilege of teaching medical students

you get paid by the university you don't

get paid by anybody else if you want to

write guidelines clinical guidelines for

diabetes clinical guidelines for Dietary

Guidelines whatever it is anybody who

writes any kind of guideline is not

allowed to take money from anybody

because doctors are the worst because

they take lots of money from everybody

and they think that just disclosing it

is fine it's like I don't care if you

say it don't do it you can't you don't

have a judge out there saying oh yeah

I've been paid by this this this this

and that so you go to these lectures and

they're terrible because you get we have

financial disclosure slides and so

anytime you go to any lecture somebody

will flash up a slide and there's like

15 drug companies on it that he's been

paid by he goes and he'll always say

something like I'm not biased because

I'm paid by everybody and every laughs

I'm thinking oh my god yeah you guys

don't even know how crooked the whole

situation is because in any other sphere

of life it would be completely

unacceptable would it be acceptable for

your child's teacher to be getting money

from their nose wallah yeah absolutely

not right absolutely 100% not you would

never stand for it I would never stand

for it if I knew my teacher my child's

teacher was being paid by coke and hey

teaches them that coke is okay but yet

coke can pay dr. Steven Piper lots of

money to come out and say hey sugars

good for you then he teaches to the

medical students hey sugar it's good for

you which teaches you yeah that sugar is

good for you and then you get diabetes

and die it's like that's very wrong

there's something very wrong there and

that's one of the things I really have

to really have to you know get the rules

changed not because they're stricter

than anybody else we need the rules same

rules as everybody else and and and and

the health of the sort of whole nation

sort of depends on it we have so many of

these researchers that are just on the

payroll

it's like publishing biased so it's kind

of a partying note here how do you look

at research then now to try and look at

it more objectively with the idea that

this could be funded in a different way

yeah it's really hard that's why most

most people who have understand

evidence-based medicine

think it's completely crap so there's

guys like there's a former

editor-in-chief of the New England

Journal of Medicine land said these are

the two sort of most prominent medical

journals in the world who have both said

yeah after like 20 years of being in the

business I realized that it's all crap

most of what we publish is not true

there's this replication bias you know

where people try and try and juice up

their findings so that it gets in

newspapers and then when they were

trying to replicate the study it's like

oh it wasn't true at all

they only got the result because they

were trying to find a result to get in

the newspaper sort of thing so anybody

who actually understands evidence-based

medicine so you know that these are the

sort of that the editors and chief the

guys who have been there and done that

and lived that life they've all

basically turned their back and said

it's all just crap now and it's not that

the idea is bad it's a good idea but

what you have to do is say get all the

commercial interests out of science you

can't have a drug company doing a study

on their own drug and saying this is the

best thing since sliced bread everybody

should do it and anybody who doesn't do

it is some Luddite who doesn't

understand evidence-based medicine it's

like okay but there's something really

wrong here

if the heroing company is saying look at

this study heroin everybody and and then

came out and taught the doctors and gave

doc there's hundreds of thousands of

dollars to teach medical students that

heroin is good for you we'd say buddy

that study was funded by the heroin

company you can't trust it but when we

say oh that study was funded by the drug

company we're like yay it's like like

logic is just like I'm like kind of

appalled sort of yeah with how how

everything is developed in medicine and

that logic seems to sort of play no role

in in what we do that is you can't allow

drug companies to do their own study and

then tout their own horn and then

dictate how we do medicine yeah that's

great like you've given up you've given

it up and why because our leaders our

University professors are all on the

payroll it's crazy yeah it's a great

book about biases

decisive by the heath brothers Dan and

chippy and so I just noticed that I you

know it's a someone who's been in

and the beneficiary of fasting and the

ketogenic diet I'm very biased Pro that

but now when I read research I try and

really be aware of that because you find

yourself seeking out more of the same so

human nature were very very biased

creature so you can see how this could

happen but but if in terms of like kind

of a parting piece of advice like the

biggest health issue do you think that's

one of them that the so-called

evidence-based medicine is really

industry funded and yeah I think that

there's sort of a couple of things I

mean there's from from a health

standpoint honestly its metabolic

syndrome obesity type 2 diabetes that's

clearly going to be the issue of our

times

yeah it's killing tons of people carting

fast or disease stroke cancer those are

the biggest sort of three killers of

Americans and they're all sort of

metabolic problems so the the sort of

that's sort of the biggest problem and

going to the sort of standard medical

dogma is not great for the related issue

of a lot of bias and medicine research

the good news is that you have you can

take control of your own health you know

through understanding like what we're

talking about do the cutting out

processed foods reducing the number of

times that you eat intermittent fasting

and sort of regain sort of 90% of your

house from the good news from a patient

perspective is that yes you can do

something about right now the larger

societal issue is exactly that to get

the bias out of medical science because

the reason that medical science is

hopelessly bad is that there's just too

much bias so if you look back at the

1970s the obesity goes from very little

to very high so we're worse than we were

in 1970 yeah if you look at technology

in the 1970s computer is like the size

of this room it has like you know a

tenth of the computing power of my

iPhone it's like that's the power of

human ingenuity in nutrition we've gone

backwards

we've gone we would have gone from the

computer the size of this room to a

computer the size of this entire code

language yeah it's ridiculous hmm and

it's because there's too much bias we

get people saying that sugars good for

you I mean tobacco is the same thing for

years people said no problem no problem

why they're all on the payroll okay so

we understand that for tobacco

why don't we understand it for drug

companies for this and that and again

it's not that I'm anti drug companies

drug companies have a very valuable role

but they need to be sort of over there

and the university has to be over here

and you have to split them and if their

drug is good then the university will

say okay well your drug goes good well

at least I know that you're not paying

the guy who's saying it's good yeah

again it's it's it's pure common sense

and it's like we just have to change

that to move far so that's sort of the

larger I think that in the end that's

the larger societal issue the individual

issue that's the biggest that's going to

impact everybody is gonna be you know

how to apply the proper standards of

nutrition in term in fasting I think

that part has been missing for so long

and really until I started talking about

it I don't think anybody was talking

about fasting truthfully no not in not

in terms of how their body builders and

stuff but not in terms of treatment of

disease and that kind of thing that part

is the biggest part for the individual

patient but they can actually do

something about it and that's what I

hope to do with their books with the IPM

program and with the blog and with the

podcast and your podcast and all that

sort of stuff that's where we try to do

try and empower people to sort of take

control because it's like if you watch

this and you decide to do it and get

better hey I don't get paid but guess

what if if you you write to me and say

you know what I watched your thing with

Mike and I lost 50 pounds I got rid of

my diabetes I'm paid in a totally

different way you know that's much more

valuable than the money throws it like

oh I we were able to help these people

feels great feels great minimal amount

of money is gonna get

for you yeah and that's the that's the

point that's the point is that people

can can do that yeah and the book is

great you know it goes through the

historical role that fasting has had in

humankind and as a medical therapy think

back to 1770 something or a long time

ago so you have the books awesome it's

available as you guys watch this video

it should be available on Amazon for

pre-orders worldwide so commend you on

all that great stuff IDM program comm if

people want to get into the membership

site and get into that group setting

which i think is great and by the way

you mention like pure support there's

the pure influence to like when doctors

like you have a paid speaker goes in

from a room and there's all these other

doctors and they're pitching it and they

buy into it so it's part of the yeah so

the part of the group is powerful it can

help you lose weight and balance your

blood sugar - so dr. Fung thanks again

this is a lot of fun coming on yeah

thank you very much my pleasure all

right all right

a lot of good stuff thank you