[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.86,0:00:03.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Chris Anderson: So, Jon, this feels scary.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.16,0:00:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jonathan Haidt: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.19,0:00:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: It feels like the world is in a place\Nthat we haven't seen for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.22,0:00:12.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People don't just disagree\Nin the way that we're familiar with --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.79,0:00:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the left-right political divide.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.66,0:00:17.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are much deeper differences afoot.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.81,0:00:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What on earth is going on\Nand how did we get here?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.20,0:00:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jonathan Haidt: This is different.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.26,0:00:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a much more\Napocalyptic sort of feeling.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.33,0:00:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Survey research by Pew Research shows
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.82,0:00:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the degree to which we feel\Nthat the other side is not just --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.56,0:00:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don't just dislike them,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.96,0:00:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we strongly dislike them,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.59,0:00:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we think that they are\Na threat to the nation.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.91,0:00:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those numbers have been going up and up,\Nand are over 50 percent now on both sides.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.93,0:00:48.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are scared because it feels\Nlike this is different than before.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.21,0:00:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's much more intense.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.34,0:00:52.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whenever I look\Nat any sort of social puzzle,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.03,0:00:55.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I always just apply the three\Nbasic principles of moral psychology,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.17,0:00:57.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think they'll help us here.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.55,0:01:00.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the first thing that you\Nhave to always keep in mind
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.14,0:01:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you're thinking about politics
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.90,0:01:03.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that we're tribal.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.24,0:01:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We evolved for tribalism.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.65,0:01:07.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the simplest and greatest\Ninsights into human social nature
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.75,0:01:08.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the bedouin proverb:
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.100,0:01:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me against my brother,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.45,0:01:12.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me and my brother against our cousin,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.40,0:01:14.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me and my brother and cousins\Nagainst the stranger.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.99,0:01:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that tribalism\Nallowed us to create large societies
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.66,0:01:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to come together\Nin order to compete with others.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.70,0:01:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That brought us out of the jungle\Nand out of small groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.47,0:01:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it means that we\Nhave eternal conflict.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.48,0:01:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the question you have to look at
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.25,0:01:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is what aspects of our society\Nare making that more bitter,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.11,0:01:34.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what are calming them down.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.60,0:01:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: That's a very dark proverb.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.11,0:01:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're saying that that's actually
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.73,0:01:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,baked into most people's\Nmental wiring at some level.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.30,0:01:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.50,0:01:45.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is just a basic aspect\Nof human social cognition.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.06,0:01:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we can also live\Ntogether really peacefully,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.71,0:01:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we've invented all kinds\Nof fun ways of, like, playing war.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.92,0:01:52.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, sports, politics --
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.36,0:01:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these are all ways that we get\Nto exercise this tribal nature
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.21,0:01:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without actually hurting anyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.03,0:02:02.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're actually also very good at trade\Nand exploration and meeting new people.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.16,0:02:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you have to see our tribalism\Nas something that goes up or down.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.31,0:02:08.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not like we're doomed\Nto always be fighting each other,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.12,0:02:10.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we'll never have world peace.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.98,0:02:14.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: The size of that tribe\Ncan shrink or expand.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.38,0:02:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.34,0:02:17.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: The size of what we consider us,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.61,0:02:20.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what we consider other or them
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.06,0:02:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can change.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.73,0:02:25.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And some people believe
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.07,0:02:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that process\Ncould continue indefinitely.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.22,0:02:29.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: That's right.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.44,0:02:32.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: And that we were indeed expanding\Nthe sense of tribe for a while.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.75,0:02:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: So this is, I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.94,0:02:37.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we're getting at what's possibly\Nthe new left-right distinction.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.41,0:02:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, the left-right\Nas we've all inherited it,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.72,0:02:42.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes out of the, you know,\Nlabor versus capital distinction,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.58,0:02:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the working class, Marx --
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.98,0:02:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think what we're seeing\Nnow increasingly
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.12,0:02:50.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a divide in all the Western democracies
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.10,0:02:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between the people\Nwho want to stop at nation,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.83,0:02:55.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people who are more parochial --
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.58,0:02:57.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't mean that in a bad way --
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.39,0:03:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who have much more\Nof a sense of being rooted,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.48,0:03:03.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they care about their town,\Ntheir community and their nation.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.82,0:03:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then those who are antiparochial
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.02,0:03:08.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.14,0:03:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whenever I get confused, I just think\Nof the John Lennon song "Imagine."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.51,0:03:12.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Imagine there's no countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.97,0:03:14.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing to kill or die for."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.40,0:03:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so these are the people\Nwho want more global governance,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.64,0:03:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't like nation states,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.10,0:03:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't like borders.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.24,0:03:22.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see this all over Europe as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.25,0:03:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a great metaphor guy --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.87,0:03:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually his name is Shakespeare --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.53,0:03:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,writing ten years ago in Britain.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.13,0:03:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He had a metaphor:
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.16,0:03:31.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Are we drawbridge-uppers\Nor drawbridge-downers?"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.46,0:03:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Britain is divided\N52-48 on that point.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.31,0:03:36.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And America is divided on that point, too.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.38,0:03:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: And so those of us\Nwho grew up with The Beatles
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.14,0:03:42.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that sort of hippie philosophy
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.91,0:03:44.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of dreaming of a more connected world --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.87,0:03:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it felt so idealistic --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.27,0:03:48.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how could anyone\Nthink badly about that?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.81,0:03:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What you're saying is that actually
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.76,0:03:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,millions of people today\Nfeel that that isn't just silly,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.21,0:03:58.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's actually dangerous and wrong,\Nand they're scared of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.02,0:04:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: I think the big issue,\Nespecially in Europe,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.35,0:04:01.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's also here,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.35,0:04:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the issue of immigration.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.69,0:04:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think this is where\Nwe have to look very carefully
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.62,0:04:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the social science\Nabout diversity and immigration.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.27,0:04:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once something becomes politicized,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.96,0:04:14.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once it becomes something\Nthat the left loves, and the right --
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.34,0:04:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then even the social scientists\Ncan't think straight about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.34,0:04:19.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, diversity is good in a lot of ways.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.32,0:04:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It clearly creates more innovation,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.55,0:04:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the American economy\Nhas grown enormously from it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.05,0:04:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Diversity and immigration\Ndo a lot of good things,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.38,0:04:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what the globalists,\NI think, don't see,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.14,0:04:30.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they don't want to see,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.67,0:04:36.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that ethnic diversity\Ncuts social capital and trust.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.81,0:04:39.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a very important\Nstudy by Robert Putnam,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.05,0:04:40.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the author of "Bowling Alone,"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.93,0:04:43.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at social capital databases.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.05,0:04:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And basically, the more people\Nfeel that they are the same,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.02,0:04:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the more they trust each other,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.55,0:04:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the more they can have\Na redistributionist welfare state.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.26,0:04:52.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Scandinavian countries are so wonderful
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.25,0:04:55.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they have this legacy\Nof being small, homogenous countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.68,0:04:59.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that leads to a set\Nof progressive welfare state --
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.42,0:05:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a set of progressive left-leaning values,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.50,0:05:03.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which says, "Drawbridge down!
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.64,0:05:05.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The world is a great place.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.25,0:05:06.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People in Syria are suffering,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.91,0:05:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we must welcome them in."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.30,0:05:09.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's a beautiful thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.99,0:05:11.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.29,0:05:12.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was in Sweden this summer --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.93,0:05:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the discourse in Sweden\Nis fairly politically correct,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.14,0:05:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they can't talk about the downsides,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.22,0:05:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you end up bringing a lot of people in,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.23,0:05:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's going to cut social capital,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.07,0:05:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it makes it hard to have a welfare state
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.97,0:05:25.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they might end up,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.48,0:05:26.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we have in America,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.60,0:05:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a racially divided --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.04,0:05:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,visibly racially divided society.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.97,0:05:32.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is all very\Nuncomfortable to talk about.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.21,0:05:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think this is the thing --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.78,0:05:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially in Europe and for us, too --
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.66,0:05:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we need to be looking at.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.88,0:05:38.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: You're saying that people of reason,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.98,0:05:41.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who would\Nconsider themselves not racists,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.50,0:05:43.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but moral, upstanding people,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.25,0:05:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a rationale that says,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.58,0:05:47.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Look, humans are just too different."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.13,0:05:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're in danger of overloading\Nour sense of what humans are capable of
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.74,0:05:53.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by mixing in people who are too different.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.92,0:05:57.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Yes, but I can make it\Nmuch more palatable
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.91,0:06:01.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by saying it's not necessarily about race.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.07,0:06:02.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about culture.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.36,0:06:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so there's wonderful work
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.20,0:06:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by a political scientist\Nnamed Karen Stenner,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.53,0:06:09.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who shows that when people have a sense
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.78,0:06:12.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we are all united,\Nwe're all the same,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.13,0:06:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are many people who have\Na predisposition to authoritarianism.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.32,0:06:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those people aren't particularly racist
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.39,0:06:19.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they feel as through\Nthere's not a threat
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.59,0:06:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to our social and moral order.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.27,0:06:23.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you prime them experimentally
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.33,0:06:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by thinking we're coming apart,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.84,0:06:26.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are getting more different,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.48,0:06:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they get more racist, homophobic,\Nthey want to kick out the deviants.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.03,0:06:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's in part that you get\Nan authoritarian reaction.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.96,0:06:35.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The left, following through\Nthe Lennonist line --
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.32,0:06:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the John Lennon line --
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.72,0:06:39.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does things that create\Nan authoritarian reaction.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.09,0:06:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're certainly seeing that\Nin America with the Alt-Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.98,0:06:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We saw it in Britain,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.98,0:06:44.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've seen it all over Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.53,0:06:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the more positive part of that
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.22,0:06:51.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that I think the localists,\Nor the nationalists are actually right.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.54,0:06:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That if you emphasize\Nour cultural similarity,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.24,0:06:57.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then race doesn't\Nactually matter very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.49,0:07:00.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So an assimilationist\Napproach to immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.12,0:07:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,removes a lot of these problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.70,0:07:04.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you value having\Na generous welfare state,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.31,0:07:06.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've got to emphasize\Nthat we're all the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.84,0:07:10.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: OK, so rising immigration\Nand fears about that
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.10,0:07:13.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are one of the causes\Nof the current divide.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.29,0:07:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are other causes?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.20,0:07:17.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: The next principle of moral psychology
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.24,0:07:20.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that intuitions come first,\Nstrategic reasoning second.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.93,0:07:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you've probably heard\Nthe term "motivated reasoning"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.56,0:07:25.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or "confirmation bias."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.19,0:07:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's some really interesting work
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.13,0:07:30.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how our high intelligence\Nand our verbal abilities
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.23,0:07:33.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might have evolved\Nnot to help us find out the truth,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.41,0:07:35.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to help us manipulate each other,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.21,0:07:36.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,defend our reputation.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.40,0:07:39.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're really, really good\Nat justifying ourselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.35,0:07:41.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when you bring\Ngroup interests into account,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.74,0:07:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it's not just me,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.78,0:07:44.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's like my team versus your team,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.59,0:07:47.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereas if you're evaluating evidence\Nthat your side is wrong,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.53,0:07:49.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we just can't accept that.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.31,0:07:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this is why you can't\Nwin a political argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.05,0:07:53.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you're debating something,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.47,0:07:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can't persuade the person\Nwith reasons and evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.54,0:07:58.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that's not\Nthe way reasoning works.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.79,0:08:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, now give us the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.85,0:08:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Give us Google.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.10,0:08:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, "I heard that Barack Obama\Nwas born in Kenya,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.28,0:08:06.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let me Google that --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.36,0:08:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh my God! 10 million hits! Look, he was!"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.38,0:08:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: So this has come as an unpleasant\Nsurprise to a lot of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.48,0:08:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Social media has often been framed\Nby techno-optimists
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.55,0:08:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as this great connecting force\Nthat would bring people together.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.15,0:08:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there have been some\Nunexpected counter effects to that.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.10,0:08:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: That's right, and that's why\NI'm very enamored
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.43,0:08:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of sort of ying-yang views\Nof human nature and left-right.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.25,0:08:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That each side is right\Nabout certain things,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.86,0:08:34.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but then it goes blind to other things.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.92,0:08:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the left generally believes\Nthat human nature is good,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.92,0:08:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bring people together,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.97,0:08:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knock down the walls and all will be well.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.97,0:08:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The right --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.97,0:08:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social conservatives, not libertarians --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.93,0:08:45.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social conservatives generally believe
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.95,0:08:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people can be greedy\Nand sexual and selfish,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.35,0:08:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we need regulation,\Nand we need restrictions.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.63,0:08:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So yeah, if you knock down\Nall the walls --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.64,0:08:56.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,allow people to communicate\Nall over the world --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.94,0:08:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get a lot of porn and a lot of racism.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.01,0:09:00.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: So help us understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.29,0:09:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These principles of human nature\Nhave been with us forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.03,0:09:11.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's changed that's deepened\Nthis feeling of division?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.36,0:09:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: You have to see six to 10 different\Nthreads all coming together.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.56,0:09:19.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll just list a couple of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.47,0:09:22.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in America one of the big --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.74,0:09:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually America and Europe --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.17,0:09:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the biggest ones is World War II.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.08,0:09:28.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's interesting research\Nfrom Joe Henrich and others
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.71,0:09:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if your country was at war,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.11,0:09:32.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially when you were young,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.69,0:09:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then we test you 30 years later\Nin a commons dilemma,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.76,0:09:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a prisoner's dilemma,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.25,0:09:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're more cooperative.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.13,0:09:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because of our tribal nature, if you're --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.17,0:09:45.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, my parents were\Nteenagers during World War II
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.11,0:09:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they would go out\Nlooking for scraps of aluminum
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.54,0:09:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help the war effort.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.85,0:09:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, everybody pulled together.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.98,0:09:52.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so then these people go on,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.62,0:09:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they rise up through business\Nand government,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.80,0:09:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they take leadership positions.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.70,0:09:59.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're really good\Nat compromise and cooperation.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.77,0:10:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They all retire by the '90s.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.92,0:10:05.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're left with baby boomers\Nby the end of the '90s.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.25,0:10:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And their youth was spent fighting\Neach other within each country;
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.24,0:10:10.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1968 and afterwards.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.91,0:10:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the loss of the\NWorld War II generation,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.62,0:10:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the greatest generation,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.84,0:10:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is huge.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.77,0:10:18.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's one.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.44,0:10:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another in America is the\Npurification of the two parties.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.20,0:10:25.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There used to be liberal Republicans\Nand conservative Democrats.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.27,0:10:28.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So America had a mid-20th century\Nthat was really bipartisan.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.46,0:10:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But because of a variety of factors\Nthat started things moving
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.85,0:10:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the 90's we had purified\Nliberal party and conservative party.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.18,0:10:38.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so now the people\Nin either party really are different.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.95,0:10:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now we really don't want\Nour children to marry them,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.60,0:10:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which in the '60s didn't matter very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.62,0:10:45.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the purification of the parties.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.44,0:10:46.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Third is the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.73,0:10:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.93,0:10:52.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's just the most amazing stimulant\Nfor post hoc reasoning and demonization.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.64,0:10:57.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: The tone of what's happening\Non the Internet now is quite troubling.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.62,0:11:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just did a quick search\Non Twitter about the election
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.49,0:11:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and saw two tweets next to each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.72,0:11:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One against a picture\Nof a sort of racist graffiti.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.96,0:11:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This is disgusting,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.88,0:11:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ugliness in this country,\Nbrought to us by #Trump."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.42,0:11:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then the next one is:
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.48,0:11:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Crooked Hillary\Ndedication page. Disgusting!"
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.41,0:11:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this idea of disgust\Nis troubling to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.64,0:11:26.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because you can have an argument\Nor a disagreement about something,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.78,0:11:28.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can get angry at someone.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.25,0:11:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disgust, I've heard you say,\Ntakes things to a much deeper level.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.87,0:11:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: That's right. Disgust is different.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.82,0:11:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anger, you know --
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.16,0:11:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have kids,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.16,0:11:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they fight 10 times a day\Nand they love each other 30 times a day.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.30,0:11:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You just go back and forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.62,0:11:43.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get angry, you're not angry.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.16,0:11:44.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're angry, you're not angry.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.69,0:11:46.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But disgust is different.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.35,0:11:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disgust paints the person\Nas being subhuman, monstrous,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.80,0:11:51.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deformed --
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.81,0:11:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,morally deformed.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.91,0:11:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disgust is like indelible ink.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.08,0:11:59.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's research from John Gottman\Non marital therapy.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.51,0:12:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you look at the faces,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.55,0:12:04.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if one of the couple\Nshows disgust or contempt,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.77,0:12:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's a predictor that they're\Ngoing to get divorced soon.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.76,0:12:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas if they show anger\Nthat actually doesn't predict anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.86,0:12:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because if you deal with anger well\Nit actually is good.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.48,0:12:14.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this election is different.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.93,0:12:18.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Donald Trump personally\Nuses the word "disgust" a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.61,0:12:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's very germ-sensitive,\Nso disgust does matter a lot --
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.49,0:12:22.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more for him,\N
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.94,0:12:25.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is something unique to him,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.41,0:12:28.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as we demonize each other more,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.34,0:12:31.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and again, through\Nthe Manichaean worldview,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.74,0:12:34.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the idea that the world\Nis a battle between good and evil,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.45,0:12:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as this has been ramping up,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.79,0:12:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're more likely not just to say\Nthey're wrong or I don't like them,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.04,0:12:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we say they're evil, they're satanic,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.60,0:12:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're disgusting, they're revolting.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.86,0:12:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then we want nothing to do with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.93,0:12:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why I think we see --
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.74,0:12:50.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're seeing it, for example, on campus.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.64,0:12:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now we're seeing more\Nthe urge to keep people off campus,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.31,0:12:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,silence them, keep them away.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.10,0:12:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm afraid that this whole\Ngeneration of young people,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.68,0:13:01.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if their introduction to politics\Ninvolves a lot of disgust,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.49,0:13:03.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not going to want\Nto be involved in politics
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.93,0:13:05.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they get older.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.51,0:13:07.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: So how do we deal with that?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.63,0:13:12.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disgust. How do you defuse disgust?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.04,0:13:14.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: You can't do it with reasons.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.31,0:13:18.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think --
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.03,0:13:20.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I studied disgust for many years
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.31,0:13:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think about emotions a lot,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.06,0:13:25.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that the opposite\Nof disgust is actually love.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.06,0:13:29.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Love is all about like --
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.41,0:13:31.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disgust is closing off --
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.16,0:13:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,borders.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.32,0:13:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Love is about dissolving walls.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.07,0:13:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so personal relationships I think
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.93,0:13:40.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are probably the most\Npowerful means we have.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.56,0:13:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can be disgusted by a group of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.28,0:13:46.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but then you meet a particular person
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.22,0:13:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you genuinely discover\Nthat they're lovely.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.98,0:13:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then gradually that chips away\Nor changes your category as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.23,0:14:00.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The tragedy is that Americans used to be\Nmuch more mixed up in the their towns
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.23,0:14:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by left-right or politics,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.31,0:14:04.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now that it's become\Nthis great moral divide,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.61,0:14:05.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a lot of evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.84,0:14:09.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're moving to be near people\Nwho are like us politically.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.23,0:14:11.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's harder to find somebody\Nwho's on the other side.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.79,0:14:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they're over there,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.24,0:14:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're far away.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.24,0:14:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's harder to get to know them.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.79,0:14:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: What would you say to someone,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.12,0:14:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or say to Americans,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.94,0:14:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people generally,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.94,0:14:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what should we\Nunderstand about each other
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.84,0:14:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might help us rethink for a minute
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.42,0:14:29.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this disgust instinct.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.28,0:14:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Yes,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.38,0:14:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a really important\Nthing to keep in mind --
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.26,0:14:38.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's research by political\Nscientist Alan Abramowitz
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.41,0:14:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,showing that American democracy\Nis increasingly governed
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.43,0:14:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by what's called negative partisanship.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.12,0:14:48.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That means you think like, "OK\Nthere's a candidate,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.15,0:14:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you like the candidate,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.28,0:14:50.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you vote for the candidate."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.61,0:14:52.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But with the rise of negative advertising,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.62,0:14:53.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and social media
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.56,0:14:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all sorts of other trends,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.23,0:14:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,increasingly the way elections are done
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.13,0:14:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that each side tries to make\Nthe other side so horrible,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.90,0:15:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so awful,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.03,0:15:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you'll vote for my guy by default.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.51,0:15:06.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so as we more and more vote\Nagainst the other side
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.50,0:15:08.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not for our side,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.04,0:15:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to keep in mind
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.49,0:15:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if people are on the left,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.52,0:15:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they think well, "I used to think\Nthat Republicans were bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.33,0:15:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but now Donald Trump proves it.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.84,0:15:19.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now every Republican
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.65,0:15:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can paint with all the things\Nthat I think about Trump."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.38,0:15:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's not necessarily true.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.99,0:15:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're generally not very happy\Nwith their candidate.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.55,0:15:31.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the most negative partisanship\Nelection in American history.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.96,0:15:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you have to first separate your\Nfeelings about the candidate
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.58,0:15:38.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from your feelings about the people\Nwho are given a choice,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.54,0:15:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then you have to realize
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.54,0:15:44.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that because we all live\Nin a separate moral world --
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.01,0:15:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the metaphor I use in the book\Nis that we're all trapped in "The Matrix,"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.48,0:15:49.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or each moral community is a matrix,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.23,0:15:51.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a consensual hallucination.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.03,0:15:53.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so if you're within the blue matrix,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.29,0:15:56.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything's completely compelling\Nthat the other side,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.61,0:16:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're troglodytes, they're racists,\Nthey're the worst people in the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.22,0:16:02.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you have all\Nthe facts to back that up.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.35,0:16:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But somebody in the next house from yours\Nis living in a different moral matrix.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.46,0:16:08.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They live in a different video game,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.50,0:16:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they see a completely\Ndifferent set of facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.80,0:16:13.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And each one sees different\Nthreats to the country.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.41,0:16:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I've found\Nfrom being in the middle,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.52,0:16:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and from trying to understand both sides,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.52,0:16:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is both sides are right.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.70,0:16:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a lot of threats to this country
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.76,0:16:24.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and each side is constitutionally\Nincapable of seeing them all.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.96,0:16:27.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: So are you almost saying
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.04,0:16:31.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we almost need a new type of empathy?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.70,0:16:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Empathy is traditionally framed as\N"Oh I feel your pain,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.20,0:16:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can put myself in your shoes,"
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.91,0:16:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we apply it to the poor,\Nthe needy, the suffering.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.35,0:16:44.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't usually apply it \Nto people who we feel as other,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.20,0:16:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or we're disgusted by.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.25,0:16:51.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would it look like\Nto build that type of empathy?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.49,0:16:54.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: So I think --
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.44,0:16:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,empathy is a very very\Nhot topic in psychology,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.71,0:16:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's a very popular word\Non the left in particular,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.29,0:17:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,empathy's a good thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.44,0:17:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And empathy for the preferred\Nclasses of victims.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.58,0:17:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's important to empathize
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.05,0:17:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the groups that we on the left\Nthink are so important.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.80,0:17:10.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's easy to do because\Nyou get points for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.84,0:17:14.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But empathy really should get you points\Nif you do it when it's hard to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.51,0:17:16.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.59,0:17:21.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had a long 50-year period\Nof dealing with our race problems
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.62,0:17:23.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and legal discrimination,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.68,0:17:25.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was our top\Npriority for a long time
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.81,0:17:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it still is important,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.57,0:17:29.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think this year,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.06,0:17:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm hoping it will make people see
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.49,0:17:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have an existential\Nthreat on our hands.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.31,0:17:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our left-right divide,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.97,0:17:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:36.97,0:17:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is by far the most important\Ndivide we face.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.11,0:17:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We still have issues about race\Nand gender and LGBT,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.12,0:17:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but this is the urgent need\Nof the next 50 years,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.67,0:17:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and things aren't going\Nto get better on their own.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.02,0:17:51.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're going to need to do\Na lot of institutional reforms,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.88,0:17:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we could talk about that,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.31,0:17:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's like a whole long,\Nwonky converstation.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.76,0:17:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think it starts with people\Nrealizing that this is a turning point.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.85,0:18:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yes, we need a new kind of empathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.66,0:18:04.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to realize:
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.04,0:18:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is what our country needs,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.54,0:18:08.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is what you need.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.07,0:18:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Raise your hand if you want\Nto spend the next four years
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.71,0:18:13.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as angry and worried\Nas you've been for the last year.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.26,0:18:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Raise your hand.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.26,0:18:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you want to escape from this,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.92,0:18:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,read Buddha, read Jesus,\Nread Marcus Aurelius,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.20,0:18:23.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean they have all kinds of great advice\Nfor how to drop the fear,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.23,0:18:24.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reframe things,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.49,0:18:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stop seeing other people as your enemy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.47,0:18:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's a lot of guidance and ancient\Nwisdom for this kind of empathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.90,0:18:31.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: Here's my last question.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.26,0:18:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Personally, what can\Npeople do to help heal?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.88,0:18:39.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Yeah, it's very hard to just decide\Nto overcome your deepest prejudices.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.77,0:18:41.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's research showing
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.25,0:18:45.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that political prejudices are deeper\Nand stronger that race prejudices
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.53,0:18:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the country now.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.50,0:18:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think you have to make an effort.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.80,0:18:50.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the main thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.100,0:18:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Make an effort to actually\Nmeet somebody --
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.00,0:18:54.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody has a cousin,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.47,0:18:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a brother-in-law,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.48,0:18:57.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody who's on the other side.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.18,0:18:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So after this election,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.58,0:19:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wait a week or two because it's probably\Ngoing to feel awful for one of you,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.18,0:19:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but wait a couple weeks
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.32,0:19:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then reach out and say\Nthat you want to talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.78,0:19:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And before you do it,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.40,0:19:12.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,read Dale Carnegie, "How to Win\NFriends and Influence People --"
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.40,0:19:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.40,0:19:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm totally serious.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.52,0:19:17.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll learn techniques\Nif you start by acknowledging,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.17,0:19:18.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you start by saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.41,0:19:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You know we don't agree on a lot,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.03,0:19:22.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but one thing I really\Nrespect about you, Uncle Bob,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.49,0:19:24.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or about you conservatives is ... "
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.67,0:19:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can find something.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.11,0:19:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you start with some\Nappreciation it's like magic.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.16,0:19:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is one of the main\Nthings I've learned,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.22,0:19:33.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I've taken to my human relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.22,0:19:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I still make lots of stupid mistakes,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.00,0:19:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm incredibly good\Nat apologizing now,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.04,0:19:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and at acknowledging what\Nsomebody was right about.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.48,0:19:42.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you do that then\Nthe conversation goes really well,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.28,0:19:44.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's actually really fun.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.80,0:19:47.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CA: Jon, it's absolutely fascinating\Nspeaking with you.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.39,0:19:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really does feel like\Nthe ground that we're on
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.17,0:19:56.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a ground populated by deep questions\Nof morality and human nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.45,0:19:59.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your wisdom couldn't be more relevant.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.09,0:20:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you so much for sharing\Nthis time with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.40,0:20:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.40,0:20:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JH: Thank you.