WEBVTT

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You want a ghost story?

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There was a dark and stormy afternoon

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and this English girl was visiting,

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sorry this Australian girl was 
visiting England.

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You know that one already?

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Okay here's another one then.

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There was a friend of mine 
years ago

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and he bought a nice 
townhouse in London

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(three or four storeys)

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and he bought it very very cheaply.

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Why? The agent was pretty honest with him,

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he said people report 
there's a ghost in the house;

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these old English houses,
there are lots of ghosts.

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He said "really?" Okay. But he doesn't 
believe in ghosts: "I will take it anyway".

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So the very first night when he 
got his new house

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he hadn't moved his his furniture, 
it was coming the following morning,

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so he got a camp bed and slept 
on the ground floor.

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In the middle of the night 
he was woken up

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"wrap, wrap! wrap, wrap!"
he thought what was that.

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He thought he just imagined it

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so he turned over and tried 
to get to sleep and he heard again

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"wrap wrap! wrap wrap!"

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So he got out of bed, 
he checked all the windows,

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they were all closed,

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the doors were closed,

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there were no mice,
it was a very well kept house,

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there was no logical explanation 
for anything making the noise

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in that room.

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So he thought, it's just 
imagination.

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He turned around to go back to bed 
and he heard it much louder this time

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"wrap wrap! wrap wrap!" it's coming
from upstairs - second storey.

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So he went upstairs, turned on the lights,

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looked everywhere for any scientific 
cause for that sound.

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He couldn't find anything.

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He was getting a little bit concerned 
by this time

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but you know just giving up:
imagination can play tricks on you.

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Then he heard it coming from the 
top floor really loud

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"wrap wrap wrap wrap".

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So he went up to the top floor,
turned on the lights,

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he was shaking a bit now,

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Doesn't matter; people say they are not 
afraid but when supernatural things happen

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you actually do get a bit scared.

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He checked everything in that 
third storey but couldn't find any

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logical reason for anything 
making a noise.

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He was about to go downstairs

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and he heard it loudest ever 
"wrap wrap..!!" coming from the attic.

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He didn't have any lights in the attic 
so he quickly went down to get his flashlight

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and there was a little ladder that you can 
go to get up into the attic.

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He climbed up the ladder and he 
shone the flashlight in the attic:

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it was full of rubbish, cobwebs
and dust like attics are,

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and he turned around trying to 
find the source of this noise

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and then suddenly he heard 
it right behind him,

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loudest as ever "Wrap Wrap!! Wrap Wrap!!".

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He turned around and he saw it,
he saw with the flashlight.

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It was an old piece of 
wrapping paper! [laughter]

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That's a terrible joke:
wrapping paper!

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It goes "wrap wrap!"
[Ajahn Laughs]

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That hasn't gone online,
overseas, has it ?

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My goodness I do apologise.

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People made me do that,
it's not my fault.

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Okay there is another 1 or 2 minutes 
before we start.

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I've lost a monk somewhere,
anyway I am sure he will find me.

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He's embarrassed - he couldn't stand my
humour so he's gone to another place.

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Clock says it's 3 o'clock 
so we may actually start now.

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So let's start with the Namo Thassa.

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Buddham, Dhammam, Sangham namassami.

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Very Good.

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So as you all know by now 
this is the fortnightly Sutta Class

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second and fourth Sundays of the month 
outside the Rains Retreat

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one of the senior monks takes
a Sutta and discusses it.

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But instead of doing the Suttas 
most of which we have done before

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and are available on the internet

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I am using the opportunity to read out a 
re-translation of the "Word of the Buddha".

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This was a document which was first 
printed in German.

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I did some research recently;
in 1906 in German,

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translated into English in 1907.

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So the translation does need 
to be updated,

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updated for several reasons,

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first of all some of the words,
the language, is a bit dated,

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stilted, and it makes it hard to understand.

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Also that some of the translations 
we can do much better

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than the first attempt at translating 
Pali words into English;

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and thirdly, it is something which 
I learnt from when I learned Pali

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from Professor A.K. Warder
who is another Cambridge guy,

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because that means he must be okay.

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He taught me that you do not 
translate word by word,

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you translate phrase by phrase 
or sentence by sentence,

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because the unit of language 
is a phrase, it's not a word.

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So words only have meaning 
in the context of what goes before

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and what goes after them.
So we never should translate,

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(but many people do)
word for word:

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it should be sentence for sentence,
or phrase by phrase,

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and that's what I've 
attempted to do here.

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So it is a different translation 
than you've had before.

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So far I've got reasonably 
good feedback:

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that people find it's much more 
easy to understand.

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It takes away much of the repetition

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which you find if you read 
the existing translations

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and it makes it a little bit 
more powerful

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because you are not distracted by 
things like repetition,

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you are not sort-of distracted by words
whose meaning is a bit weird and strange.

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We try and use ordinary words 
which are common in 2017.

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So that is the reason I am doing this.

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I should mention to anyone coming 
for the first time

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that this is based on the Buddha's
teachings from the Suttas.

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It is an Anthology where we take 
this Sutta or part of this Sutta

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and part of another Sutta and we string 
that together along a theme

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and the theme is the 
Four Noble Truths.

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And with the Four Noble Truths

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we also have the last of those 
Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path

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and this is where we are right now.

NOTE Paragraph

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We're just, almost, completing
the first of the Eightfold Path

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called Right View.
And Right View is many many things

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but here we get to that part of 
Right View

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that if one really penetrates
the Right View

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and here is actually 
what they say.

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Diṭṭhipatho -- diṭṭhi means the right view 
'patho' means achieved (right view).

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If you are one who has achieved 
right view

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then that's a simile for being 
a Stream-Winner.

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So this is no small thing,
it is the view when it gets corrected

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which makes the person
a Sowan, a Stream-Winner.

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So this is where we are 
at the moment.

NOTE Paragraph

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The Sotāpanna or Stream-Winner.

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This is from Majjhima Nikāya 22.
I give the references so anyone can

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go and check the other 
translations which you may find in

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books by Bhikkhu Bodhi which is 
much more academic

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or you can even better learn some Pali and
look it up in the original, which is the best.

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"When you contemplate in this way,"

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(and what we were doing before 
contemplating no-self)

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"when you are contemplating in this way 
three fetters are abandoned in you"

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And the word fetter, it's what a 
policeman would put on you

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like handcuffs, balls and chains,

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it means something which stops you
moving, which stops you being free.

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"three fetters are abandoned in you:

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a view of a permanent essence"
(otherwise known as a soul)

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but to make it more accurate "an essence",
an essence of this body and mind

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which you take to be you,
which is permanent,

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which goes from life to life,
that is a view which is abandoned

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at Stream-winning: a permanent essence.

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"...skeptical doubt and a belief that rites
and rituals are sufficient in themselves

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to reach enlightenment. Those who
have abandoned three fetters are all

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stream-enterers, no longer subject
to rebirth in a lower realm

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and headed for full enlightenment."

NOTE Paragraph

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So the view of a permanent essence is the
core of those wrong views which are overcome.

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The skeptical doubt: all skeptical doubt can
only be overcome with direct experience.

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So this is not something you just
believe - that there is no self,

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just like you may believe in
like a Jesus or Allah or something.

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This is actually a direct experience

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which means all skeptical doubt,
all doubt, is totally abolished.

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And it has to be a strong experience,

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not just a little understanding.

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It's the experience which has to come

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when in the Buddhist way 
of looking at things,

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the five hindrances, which are what 
stops and blocks our wisdom arising,

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when those five hindrances are overcome.
When the five hindrances,

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they call them hindrances:
it's a good word.

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What are they hindering?
Wisdom - they block it.

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It's like looking through a mist,
or not being able to see clearly.

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So those hindrances,
that's the purpose of deep meditation,

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to overcome those, so you can see clearly.

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And of course, once it's seen clearly 
with a pre or post Jhana mind

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then no skeptical doubt is left at all.

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That's a very powerful experience.

NOTE Paragraph

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And also the belief that 
rites and rituals are

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sufficient in themselves to 
reach enlightenment.

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It may seem why do we have that 
as a fetter or a wrong view

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when most people in the Western World,

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we don't really do much 
rites and rituals

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but still there are many many 
people even alive today

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who still believe that by doing chanting
or by doing this ritual or that rite

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that you can actually say that you are 
a stream-winner or whatever.

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And of course it's not a something 
to be gained by a rite or a ritual

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like say a marriage or like...
what's another rite and ritual..

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marriage is the best one.
This is something which is beyond

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rites and rituals, it is something
which comes from deep meditations.

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So those are the three things 
which are abandoned

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and the most important one of them is the
view of a permanent essence: a soul.

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And those who abandon these three 
fetters are all Stream-enterers,

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no longer subject to rebirth in a lower realm

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which means you are never going to be 
reborn as an animal, as a hungry ghost

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which goes "wrap wrap"
in the middle of the night, [laughs]

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never reborn in any hell realm.

NOTE Paragraph

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Even though one may have bad kamma,

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just like in the time of the Buddha 
there was this gentleman called Angulimala,

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a serial killer, and he managed to avoid being
reborn in lower realms as a result of his murdering,

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and of course it really needs us to 
actually inquire the question why.

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Why is like kamma which is such an 
important part of Buddhism,

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you know that if you do bad things 
you have to pay the consequences,

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why is it for stream-winners they get
basically a get out of jail free card.

NOTE Paragraph

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And I've mentioned this in 
many of the talks before,

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it is because (this is not here,
this is Ajahn Brahm)

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that when you have a sense of self 
you haven't seen non-self,

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then you will always have guilt.

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It's very hard to 
forgive yourself

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when you think there is a self there.

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So forgiveness, it is actually based
on an identity

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Sorry, not forgiveness, guilt, sorry.

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Guilt is based on your very deep belief
that there is an identity there,

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a being continuous from that time
you did that deed till now

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which needs to be punished.

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This is one of the wonderful 
things about Buddhism,

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I've said this many times:

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we don't have punishment 
because the Buddha saw non-self.

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There is no need to punish yourself now

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for something you did a long time ago.

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There is no need but we still do it

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because we still haven't penetrated non-self.

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Once you see this truth,

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that there is no permanent essence
within you

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then that makes it very easy 
to let go of the past.

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It's not your past even though someone
by your name perpetrated that bad deed.

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It overcomes guilt
and once guilt is let go of

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(in other words real true forgiveness 
of yourself)

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then there is no reason to send yourself
to any lower realms.

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And for those people who say 
lower realms, hells and heavens,

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isn't it the same as these other old
Abrahamic religions? Is it just a myth?

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When you understand 
what these places are

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you understand why they 
are not a myth at all:

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you create your heavens and hells,

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they are not some place waiting 
for you like Bali or like London

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you just travel there 
and there it is.

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You create these places, 
these are mind-made realms

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and once you understand 
the power of this mind

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with lots of meditation you understand
how these realms are created,

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created to suit you.
However much you want to be punished,

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that's how much you create the pain
of that realm: you do it yourself.

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Whatever you think you 
need to be rewarded for,

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you think you've been 
a good person,

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that's how you create your
heaven accordingly.

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So that is why rebirth in a lower realm

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is shut out for you,
you don't need that anymore.

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And headed for full enlightenment.

NOTE Paragraph

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In how many lifetimes do you 
have after you become a stream-winner?

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Nicholas you are banned from answering
this question because you know the answer.

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Some people say seven,
some people say six.

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Put your hand up for 
seven more lifetimes.

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Put your hand up for 
six more lifetimes.

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All the ones for six more lifetimes 
you have listened to me before

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because in Buddhism this 
lifetime is number one,

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so six more as well as this one.

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Just the same way that many of you
who are Asian or know Asian friends:

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I was born in 1951 in August so I am now
65 years and a half in sort-of Australia

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but in Asia I'm 66.
This is my 66th year.

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It's one of the reasons why
in Asia you can retire one year earlier,

00:17:46.886 --> 00:17:51.420
drive a car one year earlier,
go into the pub one year earlier - no you can't do that,

00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:55.575
but they count earlier: as soon as
you are born you are one.

00:17:55.575 --> 00:17:59.022
So this is the same here,
the way of counting means

00:17:59.022 --> 00:18:06.679
this is one life, you have six more 
lives after this; at most. Maximum.

00:18:06.679 --> 00:18:12.138
Now sometimes people ask
what if you are a stream-winner

00:18:12.138 --> 00:18:16.836
you've only got this life plus six more, what
happens if you decide out of compassion

00:18:16.836 --> 00:18:23.847
to actually not to have six more 
lives but to have six hundred lives.

00:18:23.847 --> 00:18:25.910
What if you want to be 
Bodhisattva and

00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:32.532
put off your Enlightenment from here 
on in so that you can teach other people?

00:18:32.532 --> 00:18:38.031
Any comments? Yes Ananda.
(comment not audible)

00:18:38.031 --> 00:18:41.630
Exactly you can't; there is no one 
in there to make the choice!

00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.555
This is an automatic process.

00:18:44.555 --> 00:18:47.969
You can't delay it, you can't rush it,

00:18:47.969 --> 00:18:49.969
you can't do anything.

00:18:49.969 --> 00:18:54.521
It is just the same as if I'm
going to Canberra tomorrow morning.

00:18:54.521 --> 00:18:58.987
If when I am going to Canberra,
I usually travel Virgin Airlines

00:18:58.987 --> 00:19:07.114
because Virgin is the appropriate 
airline for a monk. [laughter]

00:19:07.114 --> 00:19:13.175
So when I am traveling,
suppose I ask the pilot and say:

00:19:13.175 --> 00:19:16.644
look I've always wanted to see 
Ayers Rock from the air - can you please

00:19:16.644 --> 00:19:21.262
just sweep down past Ayers Rock,
just go round a few times just for me.

00:19:21.262 --> 00:19:25.262
Would they do that? Of course not
because he's got a schedule,

00:19:25.262 --> 00:19:28.772
he has to go to Canberra,
he can't just stop just for me.

00:19:28.772 --> 00:19:32.039
So this is the same, trying to 
put off your enlightenment.

00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:35.410
At that particular time, once 
you are a stream-winner; it's too late.

00:19:35.410 --> 00:19:38.000
You can't put off anything anymore.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:42.490
Your sense of self is gone. 
You can't control, it's too late.

00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:49.029
Whether you like it or not 
six more lifetimes at most.

NOTE Paragraph

00:19:49.029 --> 00:19:51.278
Now we have, I very rarely do this

00:19:51.278 --> 00:19:53.874
because I want to have this 
as the Word of the Buddha

00:19:53.874 --> 00:19:56.889
but Bhikkhu Bodhi did an 
excellent commentary

00:19:56.889 --> 00:20:02.133
trying to bring everything together 
on the Noble Ones and the 10 fetters.

00:20:02.133 --> 00:20:04.294
So I'm going to read that out now.

00:20:04.294 --> 00:20:09.571
"On entering the irreversible path 
to the attainment of Nibbāna,

00:20:09.571 --> 00:20:12.476
(That's why I said irreversible, 
once you are on that path that's it.

00:20:12.476 --> 00:20:16.048
You are on the bus, 
it doesn't do a U-turn.)

00:20:16.048 --> 00:20:19.779
On entering the irreversible path 
to the attainment of Nibbāna,

00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:24.355
one becomes a noble person 
called ariyapuggala."

00:20:24.355 --> 00:20:28.386
Ariya means the noble ones; 
puggala means persons.

00:20:28.386 --> 00:20:34.127
I do know that in Nazi Germany 
they started to take that word Ariyan

00:20:34.127 --> 00:20:37.070
and give it meanings which it 
didn't really deserve.

00:20:37.070 --> 00:20:39.887
They even took the swastika, turned it 
the other way around

00:20:39.891 --> 00:20:42.461
and used that as their symbol.

00:20:42.461 --> 00:20:44.269
So sometimes when you 
use the word Ariya

00:20:44.269 --> 00:20:46.720
sometimes people say 
"hey what you are talking about".

00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.314
But Ariya is a very old word;
it means a noble person

00:20:50.314 --> 00:20:52.956
and in this particular 
case it refers to a person

00:20:52.956 --> 00:20:56.502
who is stream-winner or above.

00:20:56.502 --> 00:21:00.591
The word “noble ariya" here
denoting spiritual nobility,

00:21:00.591 --> 00:21:05.151
and just to make sure you understand 
why we never tell anybody,

00:21:05.151 --> 00:21:11.879
It's against our monastic rules
to tell anybody who is a stream-winner,

00:21:11.879 --> 00:21:14.515
who is a once-returner,
non-returner or Arahant.

00:21:14.515 --> 00:21:16.542
Many times you ask me that,

00:21:16.542 --> 00:21:19.052
I usually say no, 
I can't tell you.

00:21:19.052 --> 00:21:20.649
It's kept a secret,

00:21:20.649 --> 00:21:24.881
the reason why is because we 
don't want to split the Sangha

00:21:24.881 --> 00:21:32.473
into the two classes: High class
(these are the stream-winners, non returners)

00:21:32.473 --> 00:21:36.987
and the riff raff.

00:21:36.987 --> 00:21:42.427
And the story is, because honestly 
if you all know which monk

00:21:42.427 --> 00:21:44.811
in Bodhinyana Monastery and nun,
which was an Arahant

00:21:44.811 --> 00:21:48.443
which was the stream-winner 
which was riff-raff,

00:21:48.443 --> 00:21:51.525
suppose one of the riff-raff monks 
was coming to give the talk:

00:21:51.525 --> 00:21:55.022
"I'm not going to listen to him,
he's only riff-raff"

00:21:55.022 --> 00:22:02.788
Not only that - my first year
in Thailand - very bad food.

00:22:02.788 --> 00:22:08.010
One morning a big ute came,
a pick-up truck,

00:22:08.010 --> 00:22:11.627
in the back was full of pots 
and pans - you could smell it

00:22:11.627 --> 00:22:15.317
from the refectory, the delicious 
food they were bringing that day.

00:22:15.317 --> 00:22:17.445
And I could see it through the 
window and I thought

00:22:17.445 --> 00:22:20.388
"Wow today I am going to get a nice meal"

00:22:20.388 --> 00:22:23.606
We only had one meal a day,
just one chance.

00:22:23.606 --> 00:22:26.901
And the driver came out and 
went into the halls.

00:22:26.901 --> 00:22:32.495
Those days, 42 years ago, maybe only 50
monks, 60 monks there, including Ajahn Chah.

00:22:32.495 --> 00:22:36.773
(He) came in and said 
'Is Ajahn Chah here today?'

00:22:36.773 --> 00:22:40.545
He wasn't, he was at somebody's house
doing a blessing.

00:22:40.545 --> 00:22:43.781
'So he is not here today?' and I said 'no'.

00:22:43.781 --> 00:22:48.288
So he got in his car 
and drove away.

00:22:48.288 --> 00:22:50.910
He never gave us any of that food.

00:22:50.910 --> 00:22:55.721
When you are only 23 and really hungry,
that hurts.

00:22:55.721 --> 00:22:58.755
And it was just because
they never thought that

00:22:58.755 --> 00:23:02.030
young monks, you get much merit
from all that food.

00:23:02.030 --> 00:23:04.806
Ajahn Chah - you get much more merit.

00:23:04.806 --> 00:23:08.174
They invest in places where 
they get greater returns.

00:23:08.174 --> 00:23:10.807
That's actually true and that's 
why we never say.

00:23:10.807 --> 00:23:12.139
There is also the old joke;

00:23:12.139 --> 00:23:16.000
because if we did say, splitting up
the two monks; two types of monks,

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.700
the ordinary monks and the nobility,

00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:27.971
it would create not the Aristocracy,
the Ariyastocracy, you know the big shots.

00:23:27.971 --> 00:23:33.411
So we don't do that, we try and keep 
everybody equal, everyone respected.

00:23:33.411 --> 00:23:38.565
Also please do that with yourself 
as lay people.

00:23:38.565 --> 00:23:42.094
Don't go around telling other 
people 'I am a stream-winner!'

00:23:42.094 --> 00:23:45.555
'Ah! that's nothing, I was a 
stream-winner two years ago'

00:23:45.555 --> 00:23:48.251
'I am a once-returner!'

00:23:48.251 --> 00:23:51.802
'Once-returner; that's nothing!
I am a non-returner'

00:23:51.802 --> 00:23:53.155
'That's nothing I am an Arahant'

00:23:53.155 --> 00:23:56.732
'That's nothing, I've got psychic powers!'
'That's nothing...'

00:23:56.732 --> 00:23:59.773
Don't get into that spiritual pride.

00:23:59.773 --> 00:24:04.034
So anyway, we always keep it quiet.

00:24:04.034 --> 00:24:08.743
It's not an attainment: your ego, your sense
of self is supposed to be diminishing

00:24:08.743 --> 00:24:13.613
not increasing: you're seeing non-self,
it's not something you're proud of.

00:24:13.613 --> 00:24:17.223
"So on entering the irreversible path 
to the attainment of Nibbāna,

00:24:17.223 --> 00:24:19.957
one becomes a noble person (ariyapuggala)"

00:24:19.957 --> 00:24:23.523
The word “noble” (ariya) here 
denoting spiritual nobility.

00:24:23.523 --> 00:24:26.484
"There are four major types of 
noble person,

00:24:26.484 --> 00:24:30.335
and each stage is 
divided into two phases:

00:24:30.335 --> 00:24:33.113
the path and its fruition.

00:24:33.113 --> 00:24:35.405
In the path phase, 
one is said to be practicing

00:24:35.405 --> 00:24:38.389
for the attainment of a 
particular fruition,

00:24:38.389 --> 00:24:42.758
which one is bound to 
realize within that same life.

00:24:42.758 --> 00:24:46.325
In the resultant phase, one is said 
to be established in that fruition.

00:24:46.325 --> 00:24:49.253
Thus the four major types of 
noble persons

00:24:49.253 --> 00:24:53.511
actually comprise four pairs 
or eight types of noble individuals.

00:24:53.511 --> 00:24:55.262
As enumerated these are:

00:24:55.262 --> 00:24:58.569
One practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of stream-entry,

00:24:58.569 --> 00:25:00.637
and the stream-enterer.

00:25:00.637 --> 00:25:03.937
One practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of once-returning

00:25:03.937 --> 00:25:05.848
and the once-returner.

00:25:05.848 --> 00:25:09.931
One practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of non-returning,

00:25:09.931 --> 00:25:11.602
and the non-returner.

00:25:11.602 --> 00:25:13.438
One practicing for arahantship,

00:25:13.438 --> 00:25:16.517
and the Arahant (fully enlightened).

00:25:16.517 --> 00:25:19.629
The first seven persons are 
collectively known as sekhas

00:25:19.629 --> 00:25:23.207
or trainees or 
disciples in the higher training;

00:25:23.207 --> 00:25:28.860
only the arahant is called 
the asekha, the one beyond training."

00:25:28.860 --> 00:25:32.129
The reason why we say that 
is because

00:25:32.129 --> 00:25:35.340
any of you who do the 
standard chanting

00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:37.999
"Ithipiso Bagawa"

00:25:37.999 --> 00:25:42.041
when you get to the third 
quality of the Sangha

00:25:42.041 --> 00:25:44.462
'Supatipanno Bhagavato sāvakasangho'

00:25:44.462 --> 00:25:46.949
it goes on to
'Esa Bhagavato sāvakasangho'

00:25:46.949 --> 00:25:53.327
What was it then: 'cattāri purisa
yugāni Attha purisa puggalā':

00:25:53.327 --> 00:25:55.350
the four people, 
the eight pairs

00:25:55.350 --> 00:25:56.854
no; the four pairs,
the eight people,

00:25:56.854 --> 00:26:01.420
this is where that comes from:
four pairs and the eight people:

00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:04.634
the stream-winner, once-returner 
non-returner, Arahant,

00:26:04.634 --> 00:26:10.252
then divided into pairs: the one
on the path and then got to the goal.

00:26:10.252 --> 00:26:14.469
"The four main stages themselves 
are defined in two ways:

00:26:14.469 --> 00:26:17.302
by way of the defilements 
eradicated by the path leading

00:26:17.302 --> 00:26:19.732
to the corresponding fruit; 
and by way of the destiny

00:26:19.732 --> 00:26:24.661
after death that awaits one 
who has realized the particular fruit."

00:26:24.661 --> 00:26:30.332
In other words by what's been abandoned and
what's going to happen to you after you die.

00:26:30.332 --> 00:26:33.152
So the stream-enterer abandons the 
first three fetters:

00:26:33.152 --> 00:26:37.034
the view of a soul, that is, the view of a 
truly existent permanent essence

00:26:37.034 --> 00:26:39.863
either as identical with the 
five components of existence

00:26:39.863 --> 00:26:46.664
(that's the five Khandas) or as existing
in some relation to the five Khandas.

00:26:46.664 --> 00:26:52.432
So basically nowhere can you find a sense
of self, a permanent essence either

00:26:52.432 --> 00:26:57.444
identical with the five Khandas 
or existing in some relationship to them.

00:26:57.444 --> 00:27:01.564
Doubt about the Buddha, the Dhamma, 
and the Saṅgha, and the training;

00:27:01.564 --> 00:27:07.373
and the wrong grasp of rules and 
observances: that is the belief that

00:27:07.373 --> 00:27:11.020
mere external observances, 
particularly religious rituals

00:27:11.020 --> 00:27:16.216
and ascetic practices, 
can lead to liberation.

00:27:16.216 --> 00:27:20.576
And the example of that from the
Suttas is the Buddha once met,

00:27:20.576 --> 00:27:24.257
this is in the Dheega Nikaya,
I haven't mentioned it here,

00:27:24.257 --> 00:27:27.217
once mentioned these two 
ascetics in India

00:27:27.217 --> 00:27:31.451
one was a cow ascetic and
one was a dog ascetic.

00:27:31.451 --> 00:27:36.210
And the cow ascetic went 
around on all fours,

00:27:36.210 --> 00:27:39.675
ate grass, slept with cows 
and went 'moo'

00:27:39.675 --> 00:27:43.298
and the dog ascetic 
acted like a dog.

00:27:43.298 --> 00:27:44.870
And they came up to the Buddha,

00:27:44.870 --> 00:27:46.436
they were actually quite good friends,

00:27:46.436 --> 00:27:48.308
these were human beings.
If you've ever been to India

00:27:48.308 --> 00:27:50.808
and you see some of the stuff 
which goes on there

00:27:50.808 --> 00:27:53.032
maybe you can 
actually believe that.

00:27:53.032 --> 00:27:54.408
And they asked the Buddha

00:27:54.408 --> 00:27:59.329
'what happens, we were told that this; 
a very hard thing to do,

00:27:59.329 --> 00:28:03.108
imagine the endurance you need 
to do that, survive

00:28:03.108 --> 00:28:07.190
and they said 'what would happen 
to us after we die?'

00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:11.560
'Are we going to be Arahants?' 
because we are giving up so much.

00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:14.748
And the Buddha said 
'please don't ask me'.

00:28:14.748 --> 00:28:19.041
When they pressed him, He said 
well if you act like that

00:28:19.041 --> 00:28:25.390
then after death you will be reborn 
as a dog and you will be reborn as a cow.

00:28:25.390 --> 00:28:29.464
He didn't like that answer [?] at all.

00:28:29.464 --> 00:28:31.668
But people actually do those 
rites and rituals thinking that

00:28:31.668 --> 00:28:36.517
by such practices they are 
going to get somewhere.

00:28:36.517 --> 00:28:40.840
And the stream-enterer 
that's what they give up.

00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:44.543
"..destination is assured of 
attaining full Enlightenment

00:28:44.543 --> 00:28:47.384
in at most six more existences

00:28:47.384 --> 00:28:50.914
which would take place either 
in the human realm or the heavenly world.

00:28:50.914 --> 00:28:53.648
The stream-enterer will never undergo 
an eighth existence

00:28:53.648 --> 00:28:55.614
the present existence
is counted as the first

00:28:55.614 --> 00:29:00.112
and is forever freed from 
rebirth in the three lower realms:

00:29:00.112 --> 00:29:03.421
the hells, the realm of afflicted spirits,
the ghosts, and the animal realm."

00:29:03.421 --> 00:29:06.302
Remember this is Bhikkhu Bodhi.

00:29:06.302 --> 00:29:10.774
"The once-returner does not 
eradicate any new fetters.

00:29:10.774 --> 00:29:13.958
He or she has eliminated the three 
fetters that the stream-enterer

00:29:13.958 --> 00:29:17.429
has destroyed, and additionally weakens the

00:29:17.429 --> 00:29:23.126
three unwholesome roots— 
wanting, aversion, and delusion.

00:29:23.126 --> 00:29:26.966
So this wanting and ill-will (aversion),
they have been weakened

00:29:26.966 --> 00:29:31.036
but not fully abandoned yet,
so they do not arise often,

00:29:31.036 --> 00:29:35.154
and when they do arise, 
do not become obsessive.

00:29:35.154 --> 00:29:37.926
As the name implies, the once-returner 
will come back to this world

00:29:37.926 --> 00:29:41.875
only one more time and 
then make an end to suffering.

00:29:41.875 --> 00:29:46.104
The non-returner eradicates 
the five 'basic fetters'."

00:29:46.104 --> 00:29:52.263
I call them basic fetters because this is 
the base by which we keep getting reborn.

00:29:52.263 --> 00:29:58.946
"That is, in addition to the three 
eliminated by the stream-enterer,

00:29:58.946 --> 00:30:02.116
the non-returner eradicates two 
additional fetters:

00:30:02.116 --> 00:30:06.501
the desire for the five senses, 
and anything to do with the five senses,

00:30:06.501 --> 00:30:11.226
that wanting to do with seeing, 
hearing, smelling, tasting and touching

00:30:11.226 --> 00:30:14.866
are totally abandoned.
And aversion.

00:30:14.866 --> 00:30:19.083
Because non-returners have eradicated 
desire for the five-sense world,

00:30:19.083 --> 00:30:23.504
they have no ties binding 
them to this world.

00:30:23.504 --> 00:30:30.410
Thus they take birth in the 'pure abodes'
(suddhāvāsa) only for non-returners.

00:30:30.410 --> 00:30:35.588
(Another mind-made realm. 
That's all they got left; the mind.)

00:30:35.588 --> 00:30:37.653
They attain final Nibbāna there,

00:30:37.653 --> 00:30:43.019
without ever returning to rebirth in
the world of the five senses.

00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:48.272
The non-returner, however, is still 
bound by the five 'higher fetters':

00:30:48.272 --> 00:30:52.836
attachment to Jhāna (and here I 
always say: okay I admit that you can be

00:30:52.836 --> 00:30:59.569
attached jhānas but it only means 
you can't make that last step

00:30:59.569 --> 00:31:03.535
from non-returner to an Arahant yet.
So it's one of those attachments

00:31:03.535 --> 00:31:09.342
which is not really worth
talking about at this stage.

00:31:09.342 --> 00:31:14.056
Later on when you become a 
non-returner then we can talk about that.

00:31:14.056 --> 00:31:17.592
But be attached to the jhānas till 
you get there first.)

00:31:17.592 --> 00:31:19.836
"and attachment to the 
immaterial attainments,"

00:31:19.836 --> 00:31:22.131
which are based on the jhānas.

00:31:22.131 --> 00:31:24.795
And now we have the conceit.

00:31:24.795 --> 00:31:27.551
The conceit here is a Pali word:
it's a conception,

00:31:27.551 --> 00:31:32.826
it's not the same as the idea of 
conceit we have in English.

00:31:32.826 --> 00:31:36.884
It's "the thought or perception 
‘I am’ sometimes arises:

00:31:36.884 --> 00:31:40.026
I am better; I am worse; I am the same."

00:31:40.026 --> 00:31:43.079
Now we are going to later on 
we have an example of that

00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:46.309
which I put in here of what this 
really means

00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:49.124
but we will come on to that later.

00:31:49.124 --> 00:31:54.983
"Restlessness and deluded 
thoughts or perceptions."

00:31:54.983 --> 00:31:57.813
Your views have been straightened out.

00:31:57.813 --> 00:32:03.496
These are thoughts or perceptions
which are basically old habits

00:32:03.496 --> 00:32:08.460
based on the views you had 
a long time ago.

00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:11.118
"Those who cut off the five higher fetters

00:32:11.118 --> 00:32:15.579
have no more ties binding 
them to existence.

00:32:15.579 --> 00:32:18.840
These are the Arahants, 
who have destroyed all defilements

00:32:18.840 --> 00:32:23.546
and are completely liberated 
through final knowledge."

00:32:23.546 --> 00:32:27.737
Now I put this one in because 
having said attachment to Jhāna is bad

00:32:27.737 --> 00:32:34.432
only in one particular context, you know 
stops you going from that last step,

00:32:34.432 --> 00:32:37.366
from being a non-returner to 
full enlightenment;

00:32:37.366 --> 00:32:40.792
but it also has its advantages.

00:32:40.792 --> 00:32:44.497
And this is the Jhāna anāgāmī .

00:32:44.497 --> 00:32:52.427
This is; there is a shortcut between being
a stream-winner and going to Enlightenment

00:32:52.427 --> 00:32:57.827
and this is it.
This is from the Anguttara:

00:32:57.827 --> 00:33:01.647
“Just as in the autumn, 
when the sky is clear and cloudless,

00:33:01.647 --> 00:33:03.702
the sun, ascending in the sky,

00:33:03.702 --> 00:33:07.948
dispels all darkness from space as 
it shines and beams and radiates,

00:33:07.948 --> 00:33:12.828
so too, when the dust-free, 
stainless Dhamma-eye arises in you,

00:33:12.828 --> 00:33:15.590
then, together with the arising of vision, 
you abandon three fetters:

00:33:15.590 --> 00:33:19.225
the view of a permanent essence, 
doubt, and wrong grasp of

00:33:19.225 --> 00:33:23.924
behaviour and observances."
(There's the Buddha being a bit poetic)

00:33:23.924 --> 00:33:29.366
Afterwards, when you restrain two states, 
wanting and aversion,

00:33:29.366 --> 00:33:34.705
then totally secluded from the 
five senses,

00:33:34.705 --> 00:33:36.995
secluded from the five hindrances,

00:33:36.995 --> 00:33:39.839
you enter and dwell for a while 
in the first jhāna,

00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.420
which consists of rapture and pleasure 
born of freedom from the five senses,

00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:47.600
accompanied by movements of 
mind onto the bliss and holding the bliss."

00:33:47.600 --> 00:33:51.902
You enter First Jhana.
This is the important part:

00:33:51.902 --> 00:33:56.451
"If you should pass away while 
thus in Jhāna,

00:33:56.451 --> 00:34:02.390
there’s no fetter bound by which 
you might ever return to this world."

00:34:02.390 --> 00:34:04.651
Bhikkhu Bodhi's commentary:

00:34:04.651 --> 00:34:08.586
"This phrase normally denotes 
the attainment of non-returning.

00:34:08.586 --> 00:34:11.287
The commentary, however, 
identifies this disciple

00:34:11.287 --> 00:34:16.002
as a “Jhāna non-returner” 
a Jhānānāgāmī,

00:34:16.002 --> 00:34:20.981
that is, a stream-enterer or 
once-returner who also attains Jhāna.

00:34:20.981 --> 00:34:24.337
Though such a practitioner 
has not yet eliminated the two fetters

00:34:24.337 --> 00:34:26.089
of sensual desire and aversion,

00:34:26.089 --> 00:34:31.203
by attaining Jhāna he or she is 
bound to be reborn in the Jhāna realm

00:34:31.203 --> 00:34:33.629
and attain Nibbāna there,

00:34:33.629 --> 00:34:38.418
without taking another 
rebirth in the sense sphere."

00:34:38.418 --> 00:34:42.653
So in other words if you are a 
stream-winner and you get into

00:34:42.653 --> 00:34:48.754
the Jhanas there is another Sutta
which says just do Jhanas often or

00:34:48.754 --> 00:34:53.033
you die in a Jhana then
you get promoted to being Anāgāmī.

00:34:53.033 --> 00:34:57.839
In that Jhana Realm which you 
continue on after your death

00:34:57.839 --> 00:35:01.997
then when that fades away so do you.

00:35:01.997 --> 00:35:06.293
That's it. You Nibbāna from the 
Jhana realm.

00:35:06.293 --> 00:35:13.065
That's pretty cool. So it makes
us once you get to see non-self

00:35:13.065 --> 00:35:17.815
and do lots of Jhana
then basically that's it.

00:35:17.815 --> 00:35:23.776
You die ..... spend I don't know how many
aeons in the Jhana realms blissing out

00:35:23.776 --> 00:35:26.400
and then when it fades away 
you fade away too.

00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:31.375
Nibbāna from there. 
The Jhānānāgāmī.@@

00:35:31.375 --> 00:35:33.793
Why that happens again is because

00:35:33.793 --> 00:35:36.471
there is nothing to come back to.

00:35:36.471 --> 00:35:39.230
No ties, you are letting go so much

00:35:39.392 --> 00:35:46.791
when the Jhana disappears so do you.

00:35:46.791 --> 00:35:51.033
And now, what it feels like to be 
a non-returner.

00:35:51.033 --> 00:35:53.097
They have seen there is no self

00:35:53.097 --> 00:35:55.483
but it's said on the top here

00:35:55.483 --> 00:35:59.242
that they still have this conceit 
sometimes,

00:35:59.242 --> 00:36:03.243
'I am' based on old habitual 
thoughts or perceptions.

00:36:03.595 --> 00:36:07.427
Fortunately there is a nice Sutta

00:36:07.427 --> 00:36:13.356
of this monk called Khemaka 
who was an ānāgāmī, a non-returner,

00:36:13.356 --> 00:36:16.930
and monks asked him basically 
what it's like to be a non-returner.

00:36:16.930 --> 00:36:19.938
Why you got so far why can't 
you go the last step

00:36:19.938 --> 00:36:22.175
to become fully-enlightened.

00:36:22.175 --> 00:36:26.198
And this is what the simile the 
Buddha uses

00:36:26.198 --> 00:36:31.249
which I did adapt but basically 
keeping the essence

00:36:31.249 --> 00:36:34.812
this is called the 'scent of I am'

00:36:34.812 --> 00:36:37.907
"The scent of I am"

00:36:37.907 --> 00:36:43.542
So this is the monks talking to 
one of their friends, Venerable Khamaka:

00:36:43.542 --> 00:36:48.179
“Friend Khemaka, when 
you speak of this ‘I am’ …

00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:52.585
what is it that you speak of as ‘I am’?”

00:36:52.585 --> 00:36:56.908
He replies: “Friends, I do not
speak of form (that's rupa) as ‘I am,’

00:36:56.908 --> 00:37:01.258
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ apart from form.

00:37:01.258 --> 00:37:04.475
I do not speak of experience (vedanā) 
as ‘I am’ …

00:37:04.475 --> 00:37:07.669
nor of perception as ‘I am’ … 
nor of volition as ‘I am’ …

00:37:07.669 --> 00:37:09.942
nor of consciousnesses as ‘I am,’

00:37:09.942 --> 00:37:13.678
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ 
apart from consciousnesses.

00:37:13.678 --> 00:37:19.017
Not in the five Khandas, 
not outside of them

00:37:19.017 --> 00:37:23.618
Friends, although the thought ‘I am’ 
has not yet vanished in me

00:37:23.618 --> 00:37:26.714
in relation to these 
five components of existence,

00:37:26.714 --> 00:37:32.301
still I do not regard anything 
among them as ‘This I am.’

00:37:32.301 --> 00:37:34.452
(And he gives a simile)

00:37:34.452 --> 00:37:38.818
“Suppose, friends, 
there is a scent of a lotus.

00:37:38.818 --> 00:37:42.065
Would you be speaking rightly 
if you were to say,

00:37:42.065 --> 00:37:45.473
‘the scent belongs to the petals,’ 
or ‘the scent belongs to the stalk,’

00:37:45.473 --> 00:37:47.485
or ‘the scent belongs to the pistils’?”

00:37:47.485 --> 00:37:48.313
“No.”

00:37:48.313 --> 00:37:51.642
“And how, friends, should you answer 
if you were to answer rightly?”

00:37:51.642 --> 00:37:54.309
“You should answer: 
‘The scent belongs to the flower.’

00:37:54.309 --> 00:37:57.983
“So too, friends, 
I do not speak of form as ‘I am,’

00:37:57.983 --> 00:38:01.239
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ apart from form.

00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:06.009
I do not speak of experience, perception, 
will or consciousnesses as "I am"

00:38:06.009 --> 00:38:09.713
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ 
apart from consciousnesses.

00:38:09.713 --> 00:38:13.481
Friends, although the thought 
‘I am’ has not yet vanished in me

00:38:13.481 --> 00:38:15.826
in relation to these five 
components of existence,

00:38:15.826 --> 00:38:20.824
still I do not regard anything 
among them as ‘This I am.’

00:38:20.824 --> 00:38:27.416
"Friends... (got another simile which is
better but down below)

00:38:27.416 --> 00:38:32.238
“Friends, even though a noble disciple 
has abandoned the five basic fetters,

00:38:32.238 --> 00:38:36.240
still, in relation to the five 
components of existence, the Khandas

00:38:36.240 --> 00:38:42.780
there lingers in them 
a residual thought ‘I am,’

00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:48.085
a desire ‘I am,’ 
an underlying tendency ‘I am’

00:38:48.085 --> 00:38:51.515
that has not yet been uprooted.

00:38:51.515 --> 00:38:57.819
“Sometime later they grow contemplating 
dependency on causes

00:38:57.819 --> 00:39:00.051
of the five components of existence:

00:39:00.051 --> 00:39:04.986
‘Such is form (body), such its origin, 
such its passing away;

00:39:04.986 --> 00:39:07.787
such is experience, 
such is perception,

00:39:07.787 --> 00:39:11.557
such is will,
such are the six consciousnesses,

00:39:11.557 --> 00:39:15.285
such their origin, 
such is their passing away.

00:39:15.285 --> 00:39:21.346
As they dwell contemplating dependency on
causes of the five components of existence,

00:39:21.346 --> 00:39:25.151
the residual thought ‘I am,’ 
the desire ‘I am,’

00:39:25.151 --> 00:39:27.288
the underlying tendency ‘I am’

00:39:27.288 --> 00:39:31.671
that had not yet been uprooted:
this comes to be uprooted.

00:39:31.671 --> 00:39:35.983
(And this is the killer simile 
which I adapted)

00:39:35.983 --> 00:39:40.010
“Suppose you washed a cloth 
in a washing machine,

00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:43.992
rinsed and spun it, 
and then put it in a drier.

00:39:43.992 --> 00:39:46.759
Although that cloth would be clean,

00:39:46.759 --> 00:39:51.599
still it might retain the residual 
smell of the soap powder.

00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:54.940
Then you would hang it 
out in the sun to air,

00:39:54.940 --> 00:40:00.511
and after a while, the residual smell 
of the soap powder would vanish.”

00:40:00.511 --> 00:40:02.820
In the original simile 
if you read it

00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:06.770
the washer women, 
take it to the river

00:40:06.770 --> 00:40:10.921
and they bang it 
with lye or cow dung.

00:40:10.921 --> 00:40:13.055
That's how they used to wash 
in those days,

00:40:13.055 --> 00:40:17.489
and after washing it, it will still have
the smell of the lye or the cow dung.

00:40:17.489 --> 00:40:20.455
With a simile like that 
what happens is people just

00:40:20.455 --> 00:40:22.597
the whole meaning of the simile

00:40:22.597 --> 00:40:28.150
is overwhelmed by the weird way
people used to wash clothes in those days.

00:40:28.150 --> 00:40:29.894
This is how we are washing 
these days

00:40:29.894 --> 00:40:32.210
and still keeps the essence of the simile.

00:40:32.210 --> 00:40:34.762
You all have done that, washing 
something in the washing machine

00:40:34.762 --> 00:40:37.354
and after it got the smell
of the soap powder.

00:40:37.354 --> 00:40:39.702
That's like you have washed away 
most of the defilements,

00:40:39.702 --> 00:40:42.558
still got the smell of 
'I am' there.

00:40:42.558 --> 00:40:45.918
That's the non-returner.

00:40:45.918 --> 00:40:49.571
“So too, friends, even though a noble 
disciple has abandoned

00:40:49.571 --> 00:40:51.102
the five lower fetters, 
washed clean,

00:40:51.102 --> 00:40:56.072
still, in relation to the five Khandas 
there lingers in them

00:40:56.072 --> 00:40:59.982
a residual thought ‘I am, 
the desire ‘I am,’

00:40:59.982 --> 00:41:01.923
an underlying 
tendency ‘I am’

00:41:01.923 --> 00:41:04.654
that has not yet been uprooted.

00:41:04.654 --> 00:41:08.210
But as you dwell contemplating 
dependency on causes

00:41:08.210 --> 00:41:10.317
of the five components of existence,

00:41:10.317 --> 00:41:13.194
the residual thought ‘I am,
’ the desire ‘I am,’

00:41:13.194 --> 00:41:17.460
the underlying tendency to ‘I am’ 
that had not yet been uprooted

00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:21.717
this comes to be uprooted."

00:41:21.717 --> 00:41:27.981
So what had happened there 
is the habitual tendencies

00:41:27.981 --> 00:41:30.187
The other simile which I was 
talking about

00:41:30.187 --> 00:41:31.726
because I have seen this 
many times

00:41:31.726 --> 00:41:34.489
people say smokers 
smoke cigarettes

00:41:34.489 --> 00:41:38.711
they know it's bad for your health 
they got right view of the

00:41:38.711 --> 00:41:43.194
danger of cigarettes but they
can't really get rid of it yet

00:41:43.317 --> 00:41:46.041
so it takes them a while

00:41:46.041 --> 00:41:53.418
until the view actually starts to 
penetrate into their behaviour

00:41:53.418 --> 00:41:56.781
the way they perceive 
and think totally

00:41:56.781 --> 00:42:02.546
otherwise sometimes there is 
some lingering desire for cigarettes.

00:42:02.546 --> 00:42:08.470
But after the view how dangerous and 
yucky it's to really penetrate into them

00:42:08.470 --> 00:42:10.919
then there's no way they're going 
to take a cigarette any more.

00:42:10.919 --> 00:42:13.274
They have abandoned it.

00:42:13.274 --> 00:42:16.036
So once you get your views straight

00:42:16.036 --> 00:42:17.759
you have understood something

00:42:17.759 --> 00:42:19.986
(alcohol is bad for you or whatever)

00:42:19.986 --> 00:42:23.522
it doesn't mean straight away you 
are going to give up sort-of the

00:42:23.522 --> 00:42:30.221
bad habits: they linger awhile until
the new view, the correct view becomes

00:42:30.221 --> 00:42:32.490
so strong, it actually washes away

00:42:32.490 --> 00:42:42.746
even the old sense or the smell
of the old views, the old habits.

00:42:42.746 --> 00:42:47.141
I hope that's clear because it's 
a very important point there.

00:42:47.141 --> 00:42:49.861
So I am going to pause for a moment 
to see whether there are any questions

00:42:49.861 --> 00:42:54.523
on what we have done so far on the 
stages of Enlightenment.

00:42:54.523 --> 00:42:56.740
Yes.

00:42:56.740 --> 00:43:03.967
Question: The stream-enterer cannot be
reborn in a lower form, even if they have

00:43:03.967 --> 00:43:09.256
murdered somebody in a past life because 
they have given up the view of self.

00:43:09.333 --> 00:43:13.333
But presumably they wouldn't kill 
anyone again.

00:43:13.435 --> 00:43:17.179
Ajahn: Indeed because one as a 
stream-winner

00:43:17.179 --> 00:43:23.047
this was a question.... who asked me this 
sometime ago.. I think it was actually

00:43:23.047 --> 00:43:26.440
Bhante G.
He was trying to test me out

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:33.052
and he asked me; he said stream 
winner can they break the five precepts

00:43:33.052 --> 00:43:35.140
and the answer was Yes.

00:43:35.140 --> 00:43:37.248
But they know straight away 
what they have done

00:43:37.248 --> 00:43:39.613
so they can't hide it.

00:43:39.613 --> 00:43:43.296
They can't sort-of just "no no no 
no no no".

00:43:43.296 --> 00:43:47.794
So they've still got bad habits 
from the past.

00:43:47.794 --> 00:43:49.217
So those bad habits from the past

00:43:49.217 --> 00:43:50.579
it's like you have seen something,

00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:54.305
you have seen that smoking or drinking 
alcohol is not good for me

00:43:54.305 --> 00:43:57.615
but it doesn't mean they 
have given up straight away.

00:43:57.615 --> 00:44:02.995
It takes a time for you to 
train your perceptions and thoughts.

00:44:02.995 --> 00:44:08.514
Question: So it has to be that realization 
that there is no self,

00:44:08.514 --> 00:44:13.641
that kind-of drains the life 
out of any kind of misbehaviour.

00:44:13.641 --> 00:44:16.147
Ajahn: It drains the life out of it 
but like anything

00:44:16.147 --> 00:44:18.542
if you are draining a tank it 
takes a little while for

00:44:18.542 --> 00:44:20.281
all the water to come out.

00:44:20.281 --> 00:44:23.463
And at the very very end 
there is a little bit of water left.

00:44:23.463 --> 00:44:27.878
So if we are cleaning a water tank 
at Bodhinyana Monastery in Serpentine

00:44:27.878 --> 00:44:30.381
yes that's what you have to do:
drain the first water:

00:44:30.381 --> 00:44:34.006
takes those big water tanks sometimes 
a day to drain out.

00:44:34.006 --> 00:44:37.828
Then you go in there with a sponge 
to get that last little bit of water

00:44:37.828 --> 00:44:49.523
with the dirt in it out. So that's a
nice simile. Draining it out. Good.

00:44:49.523 --> 00:44:58.370
Question: Ajahn, with the Jhānānāgāmī 
is that a person doing all four Jhānās

00:44:58.370 --> 00:45:01.531
or have to be in Arupa-Jhānā
when they die

00:45:01.531 --> 00:45:06.773
to actually go to that Jhānā realm
rather than a Deva realm?

00:45:06.773 --> 00:45:11.050
Ajahn: It has to be .. actually any Jhānā 
would work

00:45:11.050 --> 00:45:15.532
but obviously the deeper the Jhānā 
the faster it would be,

00:45:15.532 --> 00:45:18.659
the more letting go there is.
So any Jhānā.

00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:21.388
It's a really amazing thing

00:45:21.388 --> 00:45:23.795
once you understand what the 
Jhānās are you can say

00:45:23.795 --> 00:45:26.166
wow that's a very very good point.

00:45:26.166 --> 00:45:30.896
Because in the Jhānās, basically 
in the Jhānās there is no sense of self,

00:45:30.896 --> 00:45:35.856
you can't actually feel or see
you are gone.

00:45:35.856 --> 00:45:37.871
So one of the reasons why

00:45:37.871 --> 00:45:40.155
I think I mentioned this to 
monks a few weeks ago

00:45:40.155 --> 00:45:46.345
that in history there were two people,
two Catholic monks or a monk and a nun,

00:45:46.379 --> 00:45:50.889
when I read that it looked like they 
have attained the first Jhānā.

00:45:51.099 --> 00:45:54.718
That was Theresa of Avila 
who used to levitate

00:45:54.718 --> 00:45:56.946
and St. John on the Cross.

00:45:56.946 --> 00:45:59.356
Just reading some of what they 
have said it's very hard

00:45:59.356 --> 00:46:01.659
because of the translation into English,

00:46:01.659 --> 00:46:03.537
don't know what they really 
meant to say but

00:46:03.537 --> 00:46:06.669
there was an indication they 
may have got into the Jhānās.

00:46:06.669 --> 00:46:09.484
But one of the reasons why 
they would get into First Jhānā

00:46:09.484 --> 00:46:16.101
is because of their methodology:
they believe in total surrender to their God.

00:46:16.101 --> 00:46:19.571
And that was 100% surrender 
not keeping anything back for them.

00:46:19.571 --> 00:46:25.853
They were surrendering their will, 
their choice, they were letting-go

00:46:25.853 --> 00:46:29.144
because of the belief - 
"God take over"

00:46:29.144 --> 00:46:31.772
That you can see that type of letting go.

00:46:31.772 --> 00:46:36.384
I can understand how that would 
get a person into the First Jhānā.

00:46:36.384 --> 00:46:40.966
But of course the view they had
afterwards, Jhānā would not be enough

00:46:40.966 --> 00:46:43.243
to break through that view.

00:46:43.243 --> 00:46:45.769
Which they didn't have any other 
alternative for that

00:46:45.769 --> 00:46:49.321
but I can see just how that degree of 
letting go would go into that

00:46:49.321 --> 00:46:51.424
so when you are in that Jhānā state

00:46:51.424 --> 00:46:54.162
no sense of an independent self.

00:46:54.162 --> 00:46:58.190
They would experience that as a
union with God.

00:46:58.190 --> 00:46:59.793
They are gone, totally.

00:46:59.793 --> 00:47:02.913
So you could understand in the Jhānās
there is no sense of me left.

00:47:02.913 --> 00:47:06.103
That's why you can't get into 
those states by doing stuff,

00:47:06.103 --> 00:47:09.053
that's too much of an ego, 
too much of me, doing stuff.

00:47:09.085 --> 00:47:14.188
They are literally stages of 
letting go of doing, will,

00:47:14.198 --> 00:47:15.925
that's why they are so still.

00:47:15.925 --> 00:47:18.839
And the me which creates all that willing.

00:47:18.839 --> 00:47:21.519
So that's why in such a state

00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.965
yes you haven't totally abandoned 
desire and ill-will

00:47:24.965 --> 00:47:28.358
but you have suppressed it so much

00:47:28.358 --> 00:47:30.326
that when you come out afterwards

00:47:30.326 --> 00:47:36.987
basically there is nothing 
really to get you reborn.

00:47:36.987 --> 00:47:39.619
That makes any sense?

00:47:39.619 --> 00:47:43.867
Anything else?

00:47:43.867 --> 00:47:49.297
Question: So really because doing stuff 
really just enhances your sense of self?

00:47:49.297 --> 00:47:51.470
Ajahn: Correct

00:47:51.470 --> 00:47:53.028
Question: So that's why 
it doesn't work.

00:47:53.028 --> 00:47:55.190
Ajahn: Exactly, thank you.

00:47:55.190 --> 00:48:01.350
I have been trying to bang 
at that point for 30 years.

00:48:01.350 --> 00:48:05.859
Yes behind you.

00:48:05.859 --> 00:48:18.896
Question: So if the mind punishes 
itself for things it has done

00:48:18.896 --> 00:48:22.690
you get reborn in the lower 
realms and same for the higher realms

00:48:22.690 --> 00:48:24.910
but what if you want to be 
reborn as a human?

00:48:24.910 --> 00:48:28.005
Ajahn: As a human, yeah if you 
want to be reborn as a human

00:48:28.005 --> 00:48:30.450
and you have enough kamma 
to be reborn as a human

00:48:30.450 --> 00:48:32.944
that's where you end up doing.

00:48:32.944 --> 00:48:39.978
The simile is: say you want to 
go to Bangladesh, Dhaka

00:48:40.133 --> 00:48:45.058
you need to have two reasons 
to end up in Bangladesh

00:48:45.058 --> 00:48:50.830
number one you want to go there,
number two you got the money and the visa.

00:48:50.830 --> 00:48:53.953
If you got those two things 
then you end up there.

00:48:53.953 --> 00:48:56.329
If you don't want to go there

00:48:56.329 --> 00:48:58.868
you may have the money and the visa 
but you don't want to go there

00:48:58.868 --> 00:49:00.699
of course you don't end up there.

00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:02.871
You want to go there but you 
can't afford it

00:49:02.871 --> 00:49:04.539
you don't end up there.

00:49:04.539 --> 00:49:09.572
So the wanting and the kammic wherewithal

00:49:09.572 --> 00:49:15.589
those two come together and 
that means you get reborn there.

00:49:15.589 --> 00:49:20.267
Okay.
So you got another one, okay.

00:49:20.267 --> 00:49:23.593
Questions: I suppose you have to 
delete the sense of achievement as well?

00:49:23.593 --> 00:49:29.124
Ajahn: Exactly, these are not..
Ajahn Chah kept on saying this so many times:

00:49:29.124 --> 00:49:33.303
we meditate to let go 
not to attain.

00:49:33.303 --> 00:49:37.511
Not achieving things but to 
abandon things.

00:49:37.511 --> 00:49:41.802
That's why anyone who understands 
this stuff never think it's an achievement:

00:49:41.802 --> 00:49:46.125
"I am a stream-winner, look at me 
I am a stream-winner"

00:49:46.125 --> 00:49:49.603
"I am much better than you riff-raff"

00:49:49.603 --> 00:49:54.152
that's called spiritual materialism 
which is very gross

00:49:54.152 --> 00:49:57.035
and know why people do that..
because they don't really understand

00:49:57.035 --> 00:50:02.890
what's going on. These are stages
of letting go, of disappearing.

00:50:02.890 --> 00:50:07.474
Thank you Ajahn Brahmali because that book 
the Art of Disappearing

00:50:07.474 --> 00:50:10.578
which is one of my favourites,
some of my talks are in there,

00:50:10.578 --> 00:50:16.698
he chose the title "The Art of Disappearing".
I thought wow that's a brilliant title

00:50:16.698 --> 00:50:21.093
because that's what meditation,
that's what the path is: disappearing,

00:50:21.093 --> 00:50:27.978
vanishing. That's why when I wrote
the introduction, the preface,

00:50:27.978 --> 00:50:32.487
I said this is about losing things,
not about gaining things, not attainments.

00:50:32.487 --> 00:50:36.769
So at the very end I said
"May you all get lost!"

00:50:36.769 --> 00:50:42.288
[Ajahn Laughs] and that was a 
compliment.

00:50:42.288 --> 00:50:47.208
I thought that the people publishing it
wouldn't get it but they got it straight away

00:50:47.208 --> 00:50:51.449
they said 'yeah, this is great'.
So they didn't delete it.

00:50:51.449 --> 00:50:56.544
So that's my wish for each one of you 
May you all get lost.

00:50:56.544 --> 00:51:02.232
May you all be losers.
Spiritual losers, not gainers.

00:51:02.232 --> 00:51:06.080
It's using words in a different way 
which makes it funny.

00:51:06.080 --> 00:51:12.069
Okay so we go to 
Free from All Speculative Views.

00:51:12.069 --> 00:51:16.400
So we are still on Right View,
this is why we are on this stuff.

00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:22.574
"Then does the Buddha hold 
any speculative belief at all?"

00:51:22.574 --> 00:51:30.511
Speculative belief is stuff like 
there are aliens.

00:51:30.511 --> 00:51:34.441
Have you ever seen an alien?
You can speculate, "well the universe is

00:51:37.041 --> 00:51:38.901
so big there must be some somewhere."

00:51:38.901 --> 00:51:42.831
Maybe they are siting among us.
Who knows?

00:51:42.831 --> 00:51:46.953
So speculative beliefs are things 
that people love to think about

00:51:46.953 --> 00:51:49.990
even like the origin of the Universe,

00:51:49.990 --> 00:51:55.969
where it all began if it did
begin anywhere: speculation.

00:51:55.969 --> 00:51:59.648
"Speculative belief is something 
that the Buddha has put away.

00:51:59.648 --> 00:52:01.732
For the Buddha has seen this:"

00:52:01.732 --> 00:52:05.791
(Just basic five Khandas,
just focusing on message)

00:52:05.791 --> 00:52:09.753
"Such is form, such its origin, 
such its disappearance;

00:52:09.753 --> 00:52:13.050
such is experience, its origin, 
its disappearance;

00:52:13.050 --> 00:52:16.702
such is perception, its origin, 
its disappearance;

00:52:16.702 --> 00:52:19.752
such is will, its origin, 
its disappearance;

00:52:19.752 --> 00:52:23.932
such are the consciousnesses, 
such their origin, such their disappearance."

00:52:23.932 --> 00:52:25.947
It's just talking about the 
five Khandas.

00:52:25.947 --> 00:52:28.820
The fact that none of them are permanent

00:52:28.820 --> 00:52:31.084
they arise because of other things

00:52:31.084 --> 00:52:34.299
and when other things vanish 
they all vanish.

00:52:34.299 --> 00:52:37.607
Perception, experience, 
consciousness every one of them

00:52:37.607 --> 00:52:42.888
is impermanent, it arises 
and totally disappears for a while.

00:52:42.888 --> 00:52:46.440
"Therefore, I say, with the destruction, 
fading away, cessation,

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:53.006
giving up, relinquishing of all 
conceptual proliferations"

00:52:53.006 --> 00:52:55.875
(it's one of the great words,
papañca,

00:52:55.875 --> 00:52:58.510
conceptual proliferations

00:52:58.510 --> 00:53:01.999
once we get an idea it 
just takes off

00:53:01.999 --> 00:53:05.135
like some weeds in your garden,

00:53:05.135 --> 00:53:08.822
just like some virus in your body

00:53:08.822 --> 00:53:11.423
or some malware in your computer

00:53:11.423 --> 00:53:15.068
It affects more and more 
it expands.

00:53:15.068 --> 00:53:19.230
This is what is called 
conceptual proliferation

00:53:19.230 --> 00:53:22.765
or maybe you should call 
conceptual viruses

00:53:22.765 --> 00:53:26.266
to show how they affect,
keep going and going.

00:53:26.266 --> 00:53:31.284
That's why we are thinking.
There is no end to thinking.

00:53:31.284 --> 00:53:33.068
No end to philosophizing.

00:53:33.068 --> 00:53:35.304
This conceptual proliferation

00:53:35.304 --> 00:53:38.471
put that away, just seeing,

00:53:38.471 --> 00:53:40.645
not thinking about this and 
working all out

00:53:40.645 --> 00:53:44.209
but seeing the basic five 
components of existence

00:53:44.209 --> 00:53:47.825
seeing there is nothing there.

00:53:47.825 --> 00:53:53.884
So with destruction, fading away 
cessation, giving up and relinquishing

00:53:53.884 --> 00:53:56.544
of all conceptual proliferation

00:53:56.544 --> 00:54:02.390
all philosophizing 
all I-making, we make ourselves

00:54:02.390 --> 00:54:04.131
make this idea of a self

00:54:04.131 --> 00:54:09.625
mine-making, we construct the 
idea of possession

00:54:09.625 --> 00:54:15.156
and the underlying tendency 
to assuming a permanent essence.

00:54:15.156 --> 00:54:17.905
It's an underlying tendency,

00:54:17.905 --> 00:54:21.982
we have been doing this for such
a long time it's just a habit.

00:54:21.982 --> 00:54:25.863
Try and make something 
out of nothing,

00:54:25.863 --> 00:54:30.661
that somewhere, some place 
there is a me.

00:54:30.661 --> 00:54:37.463
The Buddha is liberated through 
exhausting the fuel that drives rebirth.

00:54:37.463 --> 00:54:41.668
I like that translation:
The fuel that drives rebirth.

00:54:41.668 --> 00:54:45.189
Your car has not got no more petrol 
in its engine anymore.

00:54:45.189 --> 00:54:49.146
It can't move.
Can't get to rebirth anymore.

00:54:49.146 --> 00:54:54.423
And that fuel is the view that 
there is some person in there,

00:54:54.423 --> 00:55:00.178
some essence, some mind which is 
not sort-of impermanent:

00:55:00.178 --> 00:55:05.487
something, some soul, some ground of 
all beings, something

00:55:05.487 --> 00:55:09.175
that it becomes a fuel which 
makes you get rebirth, reborn.

00:55:09.175 --> 00:55:11.583
When you exhaust all that fuel

00:55:11.583 --> 00:55:16.085
then there is no way you can 
make an I or a mine anymore.

00:55:16.085 --> 00:55:17.558
That's why the Buddha

00:55:17.558 --> 00:55:23.524
no speculative views anymore:
you have seen through all of this.

00:55:23.524 --> 00:55:28.025
The Three Characteristics of Existence

00:55:28.025 --> 00:55:32.662
"Whether Buddhas arise or not, 
there persists that law,

00:55:32.662 --> 00:55:35.592
that stable Dhamma, 
that fixed course of the Dhamma:

00:55:35.627 --> 00:55:40.157
All phenomena that arise 
from a cause are impermanent,

00:55:40.268 --> 00:55:44.337
suffering, and not a 
permanent essence.

00:55:44.337 --> 00:55:46.718
All phenomena that arise 
from a cause are impermanent."

00:55:46.718 --> 00:55:48.519
In other words:
they arise from a cause

00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:51.278
and they must be able to disappear,

00:55:51.278 --> 00:55:53.309
and they are suffering, and 
not a permanent essence.

00:55:53.309 --> 00:55:55.216
"The Buddha awakens to this 
and breaks through to it,

00:55:55.216 --> 00:55:59.120
and then explains it, 
teaches it, proclaims it,

00:55:59.120 --> 00:56:03.532
and establish it, discloses it, 
analyses it, and elucidates it."

00:56:03.532 --> 00:56:06.628
In other words that's actually Nicca.

00:56:06.628 --> 00:56:09.104
That's not anicca, that is niccha.

00:56:09.104 --> 00:56:11.292
That law persists

00:56:11.292 --> 00:56:13.240
"And what is it that the wise in the world

00:56:13.240 --> 00:56:14.944
agree upon as not existing,

00:56:14.944 --> 00:56:16.988
of which I too say that 
it does not exist?

00:56:16.988 --> 00:56:24.711
Any form (body) that's permanent, 
stable, and eternal, not subject to change:

00:56:24.711 --> 00:56:28.301
this the wise in the world 
agree upon as not existing,

00:56:28.301 --> 00:56:30.626
and I too say that it does not exist.

00:56:30.626 --> 00:56:34.771
Any experience, Perception, Volition, 
any type of Consciousness

00:56:34.771 --> 00:56:39.233
that's permanent, stable, and eternal, 
not subject to change:

00:56:39.233 --> 00:56:41.851
this the wise in the world 
agree upon as not existing

00:56:41.851 --> 00:56:45.584
and I too say that it does not exist."

00:56:45.584 --> 00:56:50.115
"It is impossible and inconceivable 
said the Buddha

00:56:50.115 --> 00:56:54.382
that a person who is enlightened 
or even on the path to being enlightenment

00:56:54.382 --> 00:56:59.364
could consider any phenomena 
that arises from a cause as permanent,

00:56:59.364 --> 00:57:03.554
as pleasurable and as a soul:
there is no such possibility.

00:57:03.554 --> 00:57:07.553
But there is a possibility that an
unenlightened worldling might

00:57:07.553 --> 00:57:10.234
consider some phenomena that 
arise from a cause as permanent,

00:57:10.234 --> 00:57:14.162
as pleasurable and as a soul:
there is such a possibility."

00:57:14.162 --> 00:57:19.888
This is where we make a soul 
an original being, a ground of all being

00:57:19.888 --> 00:57:22.128
an essence; anything.

00:57:22.128 --> 00:57:25.125
It's a tendency of human 
beings to do that,

00:57:25.125 --> 00:57:31.813
to find an ultimate 
retirement home for you.

00:57:31.813 --> 00:57:36.836
"Therefore any kind of form whatsoever

00:57:36.836 --> 00:57:44.541
any kind of experience whatsoever 
any kind of perception whatsoever

00:57:44.541 --> 00:57:50.339
any kind of will whatsoever,
any kind of consciousness or Citta

00:57:50.339 --> 00:57:55.696
or mind whatsoever
(those three are synonyms):

00:57:55.696 --> 00:58:03.253
whether past, future or present 
once own or others, gross or subtle,

00:58:03.253 --> 00:58:08.576
inferior or superior, far or near 
all forms, all experiences,

00:58:08.576 --> 00:58:11.679
all perceptions, all will, all mind,

00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:14.436
should be seen as it really 
is with correct wisdom thus:

00:58:14.436 --> 00:58:25.559
‘This is not mine, this I am not, 
this is not my permanent essence."

00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:29.299
And now one of my 
favourite quotes,

00:58:29.299 --> 00:58:32.371
This is, so sure this is not what the 
Buddha said,

00:58:32.371 --> 00:58:34.983
we put it in here anyway, 
because it's really cool.

00:58:34.983 --> 00:58:38.003
This is very famous from 
the Visuddhimagga:

00:58:38.003 --> 00:58:49.900
"Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found.
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there."

00:58:49.900 --> 00:58:57.452
If you understand this, that's where 
you don't need to have any punishment.

00:58:57.452 --> 00:59:01.413
The deed is but not the doer.

00:59:01.413 --> 00:59:06.931
"Nibbāna is, but not a person who enters it."

00:59:06.931 --> 00:59:14.922
Not a being, not a mind, not you.
Nibbāna everything gone.

00:59:14.922 --> 00:59:21.623
And last 
"The path is, but no traveller on it's seen."

00:59:21.623 --> 00:59:27.673
In other words if you travel the 
Eightfold Path you get nowhere.

00:59:27.673 --> 00:59:30.056
You have to disappear

00:59:30.056 --> 00:59:35.555
and then the path becomes as wide 
as a 20 lane highway,

00:59:35.555 --> 00:59:38.788
even wider, you can't miss it.

00:59:38.788 --> 00:59:41.849
But when you are travelling that path

00:59:41.849 --> 00:59:44.787
when you are doing the meditation

00:59:44.787 --> 00:59:52.144
you are doing, sort-of whatever,
then the path disappears.

00:59:52.144 --> 00:59:58.305
"The path is, but no traveller on it is seen."

00:59:58.305 --> 01:00:02.913
Nibbāna is but you don't 
attain it, you don't enter, you can't.

01:00:02.913 --> 01:00:06.033
You have to disappear and vanish

01:00:06.511 --> 01:00:14.210
and the more you vanish, 
the closer you get.

01:00:14.210 --> 01:00:26.886
I love that.
Anyway, any questions? Yes.

01:00:26.886 --> 01:00:39.544
Question: If they have no self, they don't 
commit themselves to any punishment

01:00:39.544 --> 01:00:49.886
for what they do. But in the case
of Sotāpanna killing another person

01:00:49.886 --> 01:00:54.039
regardless of whether they create 
the hell or not,

01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:56.831
they still got that Kamma to receive 
Aren't they?

01:00:56.831 --> 01:01:00.320
Ajahn: Ah..have they?

01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:02.188
They got some Kamma there.

01:01:02.188 --> 01:01:05.558
You know a stream-winner or a 
once-returner or something

01:01:05.558 --> 01:01:08.002
kills somebody - they go to jail.

01:01:08.002 --> 01:01:12.808
Yes you can't use it as a legal 
defense in Australia - that it say

01:01:12.808 --> 01:01:17.245
in the Suttas that such 
stream-winners are not subject to

01:01:17.245 --> 01:01:25.004
such punishments. That doesn't work
in the jury trial or judge trial.

01:01:25.004 --> 01:01:29.387
But no, there is some consequences 
there but those consequences

01:01:29.387 --> 01:01:34.069
don't arise in a future life.

01:01:34.069 --> 01:01:40.008
Angulimala - apparently people threw
stones at him and scolded him.

01:01:40.008 --> 01:01:45.375
So he did get some suffering 
as a result of what he did

01:01:45.375 --> 01:01:50.543
but no future life suffering.

01:01:50.543 --> 01:01:55.917
So you are not punishing yourself.
Other people punish you, but not you.

01:01:56.204 --> 01:01:59.930
Question: So could the 
Sotāpanna then reborn

01:01:59.930 --> 01:02:07.380
in the first life of seven or six lives,
reborn into an unsatisfactory life

01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:09.422
for some period of time 
for that kamma?

01:02:09.422 --> 01:02:13.872
Ajahn: Not at all. The reason is 
because no one sends you to

01:02:13.872 --> 01:02:16.135
your next destination.

01:02:16.135 --> 01:02:18.332
You send yourself there.

01:02:18.332 --> 01:02:23.171
You choose literally
where you are going next.

01:02:23.171 --> 01:02:27.677
But sometimes we do make 
stupid choices because we are not wise.

01:02:27.677 --> 01:02:30.408
Because people feel they 
deserve to be punished.

01:02:30.408 --> 01:02:33.261
Even in this life, ask any psychologist:

01:02:33.261 --> 01:02:35.552
people who have a strong sense of guilt

01:02:35.552 --> 01:02:40.686
will actually deny themselves 
happiness or success.

01:02:40.686 --> 01:02:45.107
Question: But doesn't the Kamma 
actually pull the Sotāpanna to that...

01:02:45.107 --> 01:02:47.164
Ajahn-: No no, Kamma is very personal.

01:02:47.164 --> 01:02:53.751
You are the owner of your kamma
in many ways.

01:02:53.751 --> 01:03:00.073
Ok... yes, go on..

01:03:00.073 --> 01:03:03.824
Question: What exactly is 
meant by consciousnesses?

01:03:03.824 --> 01:03:09.269
Ajahn: Consciousnesses, 
I added a plural there

01:03:09.269 --> 01:03:13.995
because this is translating
according to the definition.

01:03:13.995 --> 01:03:19.986
Whenever the Buddha ever uses the word viññāna 
He says there are six types of viññāna:

01:03:19.986 --> 01:03:27.835
Sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch
and knowing - the mind, the citta.

01:03:27.835 --> 01:03:31.673
These are the six consciousnesses.

01:03:31.673 --> 01:03:37.906
I used that plural because it 
makes the word much more powerful.

01:03:37.906 --> 01:03:40.980
This is not me changing Buddhism,

01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:47.074
this is using a word and translating it 
according to its meaning.

01:03:47.074 --> 01:03:50.183
Six different types and that changes 
the whole ball game.

01:03:50.183 --> 01:03:52.060
Not consciousness because 
so often people think:

01:03:52.060 --> 01:03:53.736
"that's me, that's my essence".

01:03:53.736 --> 01:03:58.788
There are six different types of them:
"which one is you?" said the Buddha.

01:03:58.788 --> 01:04:03.010
And then you find out when there
is one there, the others are gone.

01:04:03.010 --> 01:04:05.650
They arise according to causes:

01:04:05.650 --> 01:04:11.217
consciousness, that sixth consciousness:
mind, its synonym is citta,

01:04:11.217 --> 01:04:18.647
the mind, each one of these 
consciousnesses arises because of a cause.

01:04:18.647 --> 01:04:21.706
When that cause disappears, 
the citta vanishes.

01:04:21.706 --> 01:04:24.501
That's the third Satipatṭhāna:

01:04:24.501 --> 01:04:27.328
to see the rise and the fall 
of the citta.

01:04:27.328 --> 01:04:30.461
Rise and fall means, gone, disappear,

01:04:30.461 --> 01:04:33.549
so it cannot be a permanent thing

01:04:33.549 --> 01:04:37.179
and what I just read out here,
all types of consciousnesses

01:04:37.179 --> 01:04:40.198
which includes all types of citta

01:04:40.198 --> 01:04:45.542
should be seen, past, future or present 
one's own or others', gross or subtle,

01:04:45.542 --> 01:04:48.678
inferior or superior, far or near,

01:04:48.678 --> 01:04:53.633
all consciousnesses which includes 
all mind, all citta,

01:04:53.633 --> 01:04:59.710
should be seen as it truly is:
not me, not mine, not a self.

01:04:59.710 --> 01:05:06.490
That's just the requirement for 
being an Ariya, for being a stream-winner.

01:05:06.490 --> 01:05:11.253
Without that you are not a 
stream-winner.

01:05:11.258 --> 01:05:19.831
Question: Sorry Ajahn, because John 
was saying, doesn't Kamma cause a self,

01:05:19.831 --> 01:05:24.630
and it just occured to me that the 
self, the sense of self is a bit

01:05:24.630 --> 01:05:28.377
like a black hole exerting 
huge power

01:05:28.377 --> 01:05:32.022
and it's creating everything 
including hell realms and

01:05:32.022 --> 01:05:37.020
everything you can think of and without
a self everything just melts away.

01:05:37.020 --> 01:05:38.960
Isn't that an attraction?

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:42.250
Ajahn: Yes indeed, that's the 
whole point of this,

01:05:42.250 --> 01:05:44.263
to have you melt away.

01:05:44.263 --> 01:05:48.662
the whole point of this Sue
is to get rid of you.

01:05:48.662 --> 01:05:52.289
Get rid of Sue, the 
sense of self, the sense of me.

01:05:52.289 --> 01:05:55.731
It's to lose things not to
gain things.

01:05:55.731 --> 01:06:00.698
Not to enhance yourself 
by being called a saint,

01:06:00.698 --> 01:06:04.464
"just look how great I am".

01:06:04.464 --> 01:06:09.381
Okay over there.

01:06:09.381 --> 01:06:16.205
Question: What is being reborn? 
Is that some form of energy that's being

01:06:16.205 --> 01:06:18.552
discharged into the air at the time of

01:06:18.552 --> 01:06:25.184
Ajahn: No it's not energy, there is nothing 
continuing from one moment to another.

01:06:25.184 --> 01:06:27.938
It's cause and effect.
We are going to go into

01:06:27.938 --> 01:06:32.061
that in a few moments because...
I was just scrolling down,

01:06:32.061 --> 01:06:35.104
we've got dependent origination coming 
soon which is how the Buddha would

01:06:35.104 --> 01:06:36.909
answer your question.

01:06:36.909 --> 01:06:41.484
But we would just go on a bit further 
here because time is running out.

01:06:41.484 --> 01:06:48.628
Okay what do we got here?

01:06:48.648 --> 01:06:55.178
Oh this is Yamaka
Sutta Nipata 44 after the 'traveller on it's seen...'

01:06:55.749 --> 01:07:04.846
"it is those who do not understand 
form as it really is …

01:07:04.846 --> 01:07:09.726
who do not know and see its origin, 
its cessation,

01:07:09.807 --> 01:07:11.943
and the way leading to its 
cessation

01:07:11.943 --> 01:07:16.475
that think: ‘An Enlightened One (Arahant) 
exists after death,

01:07:16.475 --> 01:07:18.180
or does not exist after death,

01:07:18.180 --> 01:07:20.493
or both exists and 
does not exist after death,

01:07:20.493 --> 01:07:23.793
or neither exists nor 
does not exist after death.’’

01:07:23.793 --> 01:07:26.692
"It's those who do not see experience, 
as it really is

01:07:26.692 --> 01:07:29.276
who do not know and see perception, 
as it really is

01:07:29.276 --> 01:07:33.123
who do not know and see will
as it really is

01:07:33.123 --> 01:07:36.764
who do not know and see the 
consciousnesses

01:07:36.764 --> 01:07:38.896
(including mind, including citta)
as they really are,

01:07:38.896 --> 01:07:41.126
and do not know and see their origin,

01:07:41.126 --> 01:07:44.441
their cessation, and the way 
leading to their cessation,

01:07:44.441 --> 01:07:47.997
these are the people who think 
an Arahant or an Enlightened One

01:07:47.997 --> 01:07:51.928
exists after death, 
or does not exist after death

01:07:51.928 --> 01:07:53.986
or both exists and does not 
exist after death,

01:07:53.986 --> 01:07:59.997
or neither exists nor does not 
exist after death."

01:07:59.997 --> 01:08:03.991
This is one of the questions:
what happens to an Arahant after they die?

01:08:03.991 --> 01:08:09.208
And this is the beginning of one of
the best answers, clearest answers.

01:08:09.208 --> 01:08:12.561
"One who knows and sees the 
five components of existence

01:08:12.561 --> 01:08:14.964
the five khandas as they really are

01:08:14.964 --> 01:08:19.189
who knows and sees where they come
from, their origin according to causes

01:08:19.189 --> 01:08:22.989
their cessation causes
stop, these things vanish

01:08:22.989 --> 01:08:24.617
and the way leading to 
their cessation

01:08:24.617 --> 01:08:28.791
they do not think 
either of these possibilities.

01:08:28.791 --> 01:08:30.116
They don't even think

01:08:30.116 --> 01:08:32.660
an Enlightened One exists 
after death or does not exist after death

01:08:32.660 --> 01:08:35.543
or both exists and does not exist 
after death,

01:08:35.543 --> 01:08:39.869
or neither exists nor 
does not exist after death."

01:08:39.869 --> 01:08:43.501
And this is a really beautiful Sutta

01:08:43.501 --> 01:08:47.673
"What do you think.." this is in the
Saṃyutta Nikāya, the Khandha Saṃyutta.

01:08:47.673 --> 01:08:51.725
“What do you think, Yamaka”,
asks Sariputta,

01:08:51.725 --> 01:08:56.470
“Do you regard the body, experience, 
perception, will or consciousnesses

01:08:56.470 --> 01:08:58.850
as an Enlightened One?”

01:08:58.850 --> 01:09:00.235
No, Venerable.

01:09:00.235 --> 01:09:05.582
Do you regard an Enlightened One 
as in the body, as in experience,

01:09:05.582 --> 01:09:10.051
as in perception, as in will or 
as in consciousness,

01:09:10.051 --> 01:09:12.846
somehow contained in 
these five khandas?"

01:09:12.846 --> 01:09:14.430
"No Venerable."

01:09:14.430 --> 01:09:19.015
"Do you regard an Enlightened One 
as apart from the body, something separate,

01:09:19.015 --> 01:09:21.664
as apart from experience, 
as apart from perception,

01:09:21.664 --> 01:09:25.722
as apart from will,
as apart from consciousnesses?"

01:09:25.722 --> 01:09:28.052
Like apart from the mind,

01:09:28.052 --> 01:09:30.493
apart from the five khandas.

01:09:30.493 --> 01:09:34.319
"Is the Enlightened One 
something separate from the five khandas?"

01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:36.383
"No Venerable."

01:09:36.383 --> 01:09:39.761
"Do you regard the body, experience,
perception, will and consciousness,

01:09:39.761 --> 01:09:42.322
all taken together,
as an Enlightened One?"

01:09:42.322 --> 01:09:44.160
"No Venerable"

01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:47.022
"Do you take an Enlightened One 
as one who is without a body,

01:09:47.022 --> 01:09:51.616
without experience, without perception,
without a will, without any consciousnesses?"

01:09:51.616 --> 01:09:53.217
"No Venerable"

01:09:53.217 --> 01:10:00.238
"But, Yamaka, when an Enlightened One
especially the Buddha, right in front of you,

01:10:00.238 --> 01:10:02.434
when an Enlightened One 
is not apprehended by you

01:10:02.434 --> 01:10:07.014
as real and actual here 
in this very life,

01:10:07.014 --> 01:10:11.816
is it fitting for you to declare that an 
Enlightened One is annihilated and perishes

01:10:11.816 --> 01:10:15.494
with the break-up of the body 
and does not exist after death?"

01:10:15.494 --> 01:10:19.264
It's not annihilated. There is 
nothing here now.

01:10:19.264 --> 01:10:22.843
Just a process, here and now.

01:10:22.843 --> 01:10:25.124
So you can't see anything there,

01:10:25.124 --> 01:10:29.789
any essence,
any enlightened essence there,

01:10:29.789 --> 01:10:33.074
either as any one of those five khandas

01:10:33.074 --> 01:10:37.075
as in those five khandas,
as apart from those five khandas,

01:10:37.075 --> 01:10:41.162
as five khandas taken together.

01:10:41.162 --> 01:10:47.264
"So, Yamaka, if they were to ask you 
what happens to an Enlightened One

01:10:47.264 --> 01:10:49.847
with the break-up of their body,
after death..

01:10:49.847 --> 01:10:54.621
What happens to an Arahant 
when they die?"

01:10:54.621 --> 01:10:57.020
"I would answer that the 
body is impermanent;

01:10:57.020 --> 01:10:58.489
what is impermanent is suffering,

01:10:58.489 --> 01:11:00.530
what is suffering has 
ceased and passed away.

01:11:00.530 --> 01:11:01.542
That's all.

01:11:01.542 --> 01:11:04.176
Experience is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

01:11:04.176 --> 01:11:06.420
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

01:11:06.420 --> 01:11:12.708
Perception is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

01:11:12.708 --> 01:11:15.048
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

01:11:15.048 --> 01:11:17.859
Will is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:20.240
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

01:11:20.240 --> 01:11:26.238
Consciousnesses; each one of them 
like citta, like the mind, is impermanent;

01:11:26.238 --> 01:11:30.579
what is impermanent is suffering;
what is suffering has ceased and passed away."

01:11:30.579 --> 01:11:34.149
The process has just stopped.

01:11:34.149 --> 01:11:37.817
Nothing being enlightened,
Nothing has been annihilated, sorry.

01:11:37.817 --> 01:11:40.171
It's just a process - stopped.

01:11:40.171 --> 01:11:46.490
"Good, Yamaka. Good!"
says Sariputta.

01:11:46.490 --> 01:11:51.730
That's one of the most powerful 
teachings of the fact about

01:11:51.730 --> 01:11:54.931
when people say 'is there 
something outside the five khandas,

01:11:54.931 --> 01:11:57.608
outside the five components of existence

01:11:57.608 --> 01:12:01.210
which you can take to be 
your essential self.

01:12:01.210 --> 01:12:05.493
Very clear.
The answer of course is no.

01:12:05.493 --> 01:12:08.434
So the Buddha who is very very 
clever, smart

01:12:08.434 --> 01:12:13.502
to cut off all possible angles of escape.

01:12:13.502 --> 01:12:17.003
People always like to find out 
a little hole where they can exist.

01:12:17.003 --> 01:12:19.722
Fortunately the Buddha was 
too smart for you.

01:12:19.722 --> 01:12:24.521
"If there is the view, 
‘The soul and the body are the same,’

01:12:24.521 --> 01:12:27.980
there is no living of the holy life"

01:12:27.980 --> 01:12:30.624
The reason is because once you die 
the soul dies anyway

01:12:30.624 --> 01:12:32.679
so what's the point of this?

01:12:32.679 --> 01:12:36.002
"If there is the view, ‘The soul is
one thing, the body is another,’

01:12:36.002 --> 01:12:37.934
there is no living of the holy life"

01:12:37.934 --> 01:12:39.436
Because it doesn't matter 
what you do

01:12:39.436 --> 01:12:41.953
the soul is just independent of you.

01:12:41.953 --> 01:12:43.963
"Without veering towards either 
of these extremes,

01:12:43.963 --> 01:12:46.082
the Buddha teaches the Dhamma 
by the middle:

01:12:46.082 --> 01:12:49.535
Dependent Origination and 
Dependent Cessation."

01:12:49.535 --> 01:12:54.756
I remember once reading the Bhagavad Gita
as a young student

01:12:54.756 --> 01:12:58.761
and there I think it was Krishna 
talking to Arjuna

01:12:58.761 --> 01:13:01.691
and Arjuna was not wanting to go 
into battle to fight

01:13:01.691 --> 01:13:04.838
because it's going to kill people
and Krishna was saying

01:13:04.838 --> 01:13:08.340
'you are not killing anybody,
just killing bodies that's all'.

01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:14.513
No soul, the soul is totally independent,
you can't stop a soul with a sword.

01:13:14.513 --> 01:13:19.350
So you know, that actually put me off 
Hinduism because there is no real

01:13:19.350 --> 01:13:24.268
'you can't really kill anybody'
because the soul is indestructible

01:13:24.268 --> 01:13:26.830
and that didn't make 
any sense to me.

01:13:26.830 --> 01:13:29.026
That's not really putting down Hinduism

01:13:29.026 --> 01:13:31.006
because that's only one 
tiny part of it

01:13:31.006 --> 01:13:33.844
but I remember that as something 
I couldn't ever accept.

01:13:33.844 --> 01:13:37.811
If the soul is totally independent 
of the body no matter what you do

01:13:37.811 --> 01:13:42.379
you can't kill a soul or harm it
or hurt it - it's independent.

01:13:42.379 --> 01:13:45.742
So there is no holy life 
the Buddha is saying here.

01:13:45.742 --> 01:13:48.498
So if the soul is one thing, 
the body is another;

01:13:48.498 --> 01:13:51.207
or if the soul and the body 
are the same

01:13:51.207 --> 01:13:53.996
there is no living of the holy life.

01:13:53.996 --> 01:13:57.057
Not veering to either of those 
extremes, the third way,

01:13:57.057 --> 01:13:59.023
the Buddha teaches the Dhamma 
by the middle,

01:13:59.023 --> 01:14:02.028
Dependent Origination and 
Dependent Cessation.

01:14:02.028 --> 01:14:08.093
And this is another definition 
of the right view:

01:14:08.093 --> 01:14:11.648
"One who sees dependent origination 
and cessation sees the Dhamma;

01:14:11.648 --> 01:14:16.178
the one who sees the Dhamma 
sees dependent origination."

01:14:16.178 --> 01:14:20.989
So it's not just
you can't say sort-of seeing non-self

01:14:20.989 --> 01:14:24.900
but what is it that we take to be 
this self,

01:14:24.900 --> 01:14:27.674
and this is where dependent 
origination comes in.

01:14:27.674 --> 01:14:33.479
And this of course answers your 
question about how rebirth can happen.

01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:40.058
Nothing getting reborn, not energy
but Cause and Effect.

01:14:40.058 --> 01:14:43.588
"With delusion as a cause, 
volition comes to be"

01:14:43.588 --> 01:14:46.280
Especially the delusion of me.

01:14:46.280 --> 01:14:50.556
As long as there is a me 
then I do stuff.

01:14:50.556 --> 01:14:53.976
When you disappear 
your will goes,

01:14:53.976 --> 01:14:57.341
because your will, the doer, 
volition

01:14:57.341 --> 01:15:04.202
that is just a sign of a "me";
there is always a "me" behind it.

01:15:04.202 --> 01:15:08.960
"with volition as cause comes the 
consciousnesses"

01:15:09.075 --> 01:15:14.744
this always has to be 
in your future life

01:15:14.744 --> 01:15:18.983
"with consciousness as the cause, 
the objects of consciousnesses come"

01:15:18.983 --> 01:15:22.556
These are the sheaves of reeds simile:

01:15:22.556 --> 01:15:28.685
the way that farmers in the old days 
would dry the reeds or the hay,

01:15:28.685 --> 01:15:31.715
they would make a sheaf,
two sheaves of hay

01:15:31.715 --> 01:15:33.503
and lean them up against each other.

01:15:33.503 --> 01:15:35.929
You take one away,
the other one falls down.

01:15:35.929 --> 01:15:40.308
So objects of consciousness and 
consciousness -they have to come together.

01:15:40.308 --> 01:15:44.168
If there are no objects of consciousnesses
consciousness vanishes.

01:15:44.168 --> 01:15:47.668
If there are no objects of the mind 
citta vanishes, disappears.

01:15:47.668 --> 01:15:51.397
That's in the Nidāna Saṃyutta.

01:15:51.397 --> 01:15:55.867
"with name-and-form as the cause,
the objects: you get the six sense bases;

01:15:55.867 --> 01:15:58.127
with the six sense bases, 
sensory contact;

01:15:58.127 --> 01:16:00.542
with sensory contact as cause, 
experience"

01:16:00.542 --> 01:16:05.947
Now this is not the sense of A leads to B
and a few seconds later then C.

01:16:05.947 --> 01:16:10.519
These things always have to
be there together.

01:16:10.519 --> 01:16:13.418
"and with experience as a cause 
wanting,

01:16:13.418 --> 01:16:18.469
with wanting causes the fuel,
the Upādāna,

01:16:18.469 --> 01:16:21.071
and with fuel as a cause 
states of existence"

01:16:21.071 --> 01:16:23.171
which I mentioned, you create these

01:16:23.171 --> 01:16:25.473
with some place to go to:
you cause rebirth

01:16:25.473 --> 01:16:29.173
"and with rebirth as a cause 
ageing and death, sorrow, crying, pain,

01:16:29.173 --> 01:16:31.131
unhappiness, and distress come to be.

01:16:31.131 --> 01:16:34.573
Such is the origin of this whole 
mass of suffering."

01:16:34.573 --> 01:16:38.471
"No God, no Brahma can be called 
the maker of life;

01:16:38.471 --> 01:16:44.417
empty phenomena roll on, 
dependent on conditions all."

01:16:44.417 --> 01:16:47.071
Rolling on:
cause and effect,

01:16:47.071 --> 01:16:50.470
empty conditions,

01:16:50.470 --> 01:16:56.230
no being, no energy,
nothing there, empty conditions.

01:16:56.230 --> 01:16:59.645
"But when a meditator has
abandoned delusion

01:16:59.645 --> 01:17:01.342
and aroused true knowledge

01:17:01.342 --> 01:17:05.316
then with the fading away of delusion 
and the arising of true knowledge,

01:17:05.316 --> 01:17:08.073
you do not generate a 
meritorious volition,

01:17:08.073 --> 01:17:12.864
or a demeritorious volition,
not even a neutral volition."

01:17:12.864 --> 01:17:17.363
You don't generate anything because 
there is no one there to do the generation.

01:17:17.363 --> 01:17:20.000
So the arising of true knowledge.

01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:22.561
Sometimes I have heard that 
some people say

01:17:22.561 --> 01:17:27.184
"ah dependent origination: it cuts at 
the gap between this and that",

01:17:27.184 --> 01:17:28.740
that's so much ko mayan.

01:17:28.740 --> 01:17:32.026
Remember the word ko mayan?

01:17:32.026 --> 01:17:37.047
ko is the bull; mayan is what comes 
out from the back end of a bull.

01:17:37.047 --> 01:17:39.875
Buddha never says that.

01:17:39.875 --> 01:17:44.028
It's always delusion;
when that's abandoned

01:17:44.123 --> 01:17:48.929
that's when this
causal sequence gets stopped.

01:17:48.929 --> 01:17:51.039
"With the remainderless fading away 
and cessation of delusion

01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:54.594
comes the cessation of will"
Woo hoo that's powerful.

01:17:54.594 --> 01:17:57.024
When you realise there is 
no one there

01:17:57.024 --> 01:18:00.500
then actually you can stop the will.

01:18:00.500 --> 01:18:04.552
Beforehand you suppress the will

01:18:04.552 --> 01:18:07.204
but when you see there is no one there

01:18:07.204 --> 01:18:10.085
three is nothing to do the 
willing anymore.

01:18:10.085 --> 01:18:11.921
That's one of the reasons why a 
stream-winner

01:18:11.921 --> 01:18:17.592
can't get reborn that many times.
The will is gone.

01:18:17.592 --> 01:18:21.750
"with the cessation of will, cessation of 
consciousnesses" (in your next life)

01:18:21.750 --> 01:18:24.527
Nothing to get you reborn.

01:18:24.527 --> 01:18:28.260
"with the cessation of consciousnesses,
the objects of consciousness disappear..

01:18:28.260 --> 01:18:35.211
sense bases..sensory contact..experience..
wanting..fuel..states of existence..rebirth"

01:18:35.211 --> 01:18:38.664
The whole thing stops.

01:18:38.664 --> 01:18:41.991
"House builder.." 
This is from the Thera Gatha.

01:18:41.991 --> 01:18:45.088
Many monks, nuns use this phrase.

01:18:45.088 --> 01:18:51.224
"House builder, you have now been seen.
You shall build no houses again.

01:18:51.224 --> 01:18:54.470
Your rafters have been broken 
and your gables all torn.

01:18:54.470 --> 01:19:01.133
Thrown off course, the citta will be 
destroyed right here."

01:19:01.133 --> 01:19:05.513
"without any doubt citta; you 
shall be destroyed."

01:19:05.513 --> 01:19:12.148
That's the mind; the House builder.

01:19:12.148 --> 01:19:17.914
Once you have seen that,
it's not who you are,

01:19:17.914 --> 01:19:23.694
it's just empty phenomena 
rolling on: your mind, the citta.

01:19:23.694 --> 01:19:25.874
That's in the Thera Gatha.

01:19:25.874 --> 01:19:29.438
"House builder, you have now been seen.
You shall build no houses again.

01:19:29.438 --> 01:19:32.193
Your rafters have been broken 
and your gables all torn.

01:19:32.193 --> 01:19:39.313
Thrown off course, the Citta will be 
destroyed right here" -- Thera Gatha.

01:19:39.322 --> 01:19:43.340
That was your house builder.

01:19:43.716 --> 01:19:47.823
No more rebirth - phew.

01:19:47.823 --> 01:19:51.309
Okay that actually comes to 
a nice stop.

01:19:51.309 --> 01:19:55.701
That's the end with a 
really big bang of Right View

01:19:55.701 --> 01:19:59.719
according to the Word of the Buddha.

01:19:59.719 --> 01:20:02.012
Okay looks like we got some 
questions from overseas.

01:20:02.012 --> 01:20:08.722
So let's deal with those before 
I ask any more questions from here.

01:20:08.722 --> 01:20:10.890
Here we go.

01:20:10.890 --> 01:20:16.789
From Malaysia: "Dear Ajahn, is there any 
distinction between making merit and Kamma?"

01:20:16.789 --> 01:20:21.495
Ajahn: Kamma includes making merit 
and making bad kamma as well.

01:20:21.495 --> 01:20:31.497
So kamma, you can make good merit.
You can make..never heard the word "bad-merit".

01:20:31.497 --> 01:20:34.124
Making merit's like good kamma.

01:20:34.124 --> 01:20:42.963
So good kamma is merit and 
bad kamma is demerit ... ok thank you.

01:20:42.963 --> 01:20:48.261
They have over here, you have 
demerits when you have long week-ends.

01:20:48.261 --> 01:20:51.118
You get double demerits.

01:20:51.118 --> 01:20:56.810
So basically kamma is just how 
merits and demerits are made.

01:20:56.810 --> 01:21:02.059
From Santa Barbara: "Is there a way to 
get rid of the results of the bad kamma

01:21:02.059 --> 01:21:06.134
with education and understanding 
or is suffering necessary?"

01:21:06.134 --> 01:21:10.545
With a bit of faith you can lessen the 
results of bad kamma.

01:21:10.545 --> 01:21:12.915
And I don't like to say this but

01:21:12.915 --> 01:21:15.076
the Buddha said this so
have to admit

01:21:15.076 --> 01:21:17.222
the other way of overcoming 
bad kamma is

01:21:17.222 --> 01:21:22.510
not overcoming it but diluting it.

01:21:22.510 --> 01:21:24.481
The reason I don't like 
saying this is because

01:21:24.481 --> 01:21:30.893
many monks and places use it..
as a great way to raise funds..

01:21:30.893 --> 01:21:34.822
Sometimes monks and monasteries 
get too rich,

01:21:34.822 --> 01:21:39.009
especially that one in Thailand which 
is being shut down now at last.

01:21:39.009 --> 01:21:43.389
But yes the Buddha said 
in the simile of salt:

01:21:43.389 --> 01:21:47.620
if you take a table full of salt 
and you put it in my glass of water

01:21:47.620 --> 01:21:52.645
and you stir it up, it means you
can't drink the whole glass. It's so salty.

01:21:52.645 --> 01:21:59.480
But if you put it in a rainwater tank
of thousand liters and you stir it up

01:21:59.480 --> 01:22:01.767
then you drink that water, 
you can hardly taste it

01:22:01.767 --> 01:22:03.863
because it really dilutes.

01:22:03.863 --> 01:22:08.002
And the Buddha said it's the same 
with bad Kamma.

01:22:08.002 --> 01:22:12.303
If you got a certain amount of bad kamma
and you only got a little bit of good kamma

01:22:12.303 --> 01:22:15.772
you are going to really taste 
that bad kamma.

01:22:15.772 --> 01:22:20.716
But if you dilute it by making lots of 
good kamma

01:22:20.716 --> 01:22:23.539
then you won't even taste it.

01:22:23.539 --> 01:22:25.989
So unscrupulous monks they
do some bad kamma.

01:22:25.989 --> 01:22:30.045
"well I think that's like a thousand 
dollars to the nuns' monastery

01:22:30.045 --> 01:22:33.463
and that will probably dilute it"

01:22:33.463 --> 01:22:37.479
It just opens the door to really 
unscrupulous practices.

01:22:37.479 --> 01:22:41.014
So that's why let's
do good kamma anyway.

01:22:41.014 --> 01:22:43.936
Not just to abandon the bad kamma.

01:22:43.936 --> 01:22:47.423
Some people do that:
they sort-of go out on a Saturday night

01:22:47.423 --> 01:22:51.316
and they come to the temple on 
Sunday morning to dilute the bad kamma

01:22:51.316 --> 01:22:54.249
they did on Saturday night.

01:22:54.249 --> 01:22:58.799
That's really just a bit unscrupulous.
But it's true.

01:22:58.799 --> 01:23:04.271
You cannot get rid but dilute the results of
bad kamma by doing a lot of good kamma.

01:23:04.271 --> 01:23:08.995
But the best way is actually 
to become a Stream-winner.

01:23:08.995 --> 01:23:14.506
And lastly from Penang: "Can a person
know for sure he or she is a Sotāpanna?"

01:23:14.506 --> 01:23:17.031
That's a wonderful question.

01:23:17.031 --> 01:23:22.676
There is a lot of people you can
know a person is not a Stream-winner

01:23:22.676 --> 01:23:25.211
you can't know if a person is.

01:23:25.211 --> 01:23:29.029
So you... so many people get deluded.

01:23:29.029 --> 01:23:33.887
They want to be a Stream-winner or 
Once-returner or Non-returner so much

01:23:33.887 --> 01:23:36.529
that they just delude themselves.

01:23:36.529 --> 01:23:40.197
The desire, the craving, is one of the 
five hindrances.

01:23:40.197 --> 01:23:42.787
That means they don't see things
that clearly.

01:23:42.787 --> 01:23:44.506
The monks know this story.

01:23:44.506 --> 01:23:48.609
I went to see this great monk 
Ajahn Thate many years ago

01:23:48.609 --> 01:23:54.614
and had to wait in line and as I was
waiting he was taking to this other

01:23:54.614 --> 01:23:56.688
Indonesian girl, very very wealthy,

01:23:56.688 --> 01:24:00.551
and she was talking about 
her meditation.

01:24:00.551 --> 01:24:02.487
She said, I was meditating

01:24:02.487 --> 01:24:05.262
and you know my mind went so still,
went blank, things disappeared,

01:24:05.262 --> 01:24:07.252
that was Fourth Jhana wasn't it?

01:24:07.252 --> 01:24:13.374
And then Ajahn Thate said,
no it wasn't, you were just sleepy.

01:24:13.374 --> 01:24:15.982
Then she said you know 
this is what happened first of all

01:24:15.982 --> 01:24:18.931
and then it was.. Fourth Jhana 
wasn't it? she asked again.

01:24:18.931 --> 01:24:21.871
No, no, no.
And then she asked again/

01:24:21.871 --> 01:24:23.612
She asked about 
four or five times.

01:24:23.612 --> 01:24:26.393
"It was Fourth Jhana wasn't it?"
"No, no, no, no"

01:24:26.393 --> 01:24:29.333
I was listening to this.
She asked again

01:24:29.333 --> 01:24:30.747
and he said "Urhh.."

01:24:30.747 --> 01:24:33.345
and she smiled and went out

01:24:33.345 --> 01:24:38.572
and she told everybody afterwards
"my Jhāna has been confirmed"

01:24:38.572 --> 01:24:44.152
Ajahn Thate said "Urhh..."
and that means yes, it's true.

01:24:44.152 --> 01:24:47.781
And I saw that.
This is one of the problems,

01:24:47.781 --> 01:24:50.822
people want these things so much

01:24:50.822 --> 01:24:54.422
they want it confirmed by 
somebody else

01:24:54.422 --> 01:24:59.586
and even in this one Sutta 
where Ananda asked the Buddha

01:24:59.586 --> 01:25:02.993
"All these people who come up 
to you, the greatest teacher

01:25:02.993 --> 01:25:05.218
that they have faith in

01:25:05.218 --> 01:25:09.872
and they claim to be Stream-winners 
Once-returners, Non-returners, Arahants.

01:25:09.872 --> 01:25:13.655
Are all those attainment real, true?

01:25:13.655 --> 01:25:17.297
And the Buddha said 
"some are, some aren't"

01:25:17.297 --> 01:25:20.464
And I read from that even the 
Buddha couldn't convince a person

01:25:20.464 --> 01:25:22.944
they are deluded.

01:25:22.944 --> 01:25:26.094
So that's just how powerful these 
delusions can be.

01:25:26.094 --> 01:25:28.254
People think they are 
stream-winners, once-returners,

01:25:28.254 --> 01:25:32.355
even Arahants, and not even the
Buddha could dislodge them from that.

01:25:32.375 --> 01:25:35.308
The power of the sense of self

01:25:35.308 --> 01:25:40.213
creates, manipulates,
and just anything else

01:25:40.213 --> 01:25:42.109
they would just push aside.

01:25:42.109 --> 01:25:44.840
"No no no I am still a stream-winner.
I am still a once-returner."

01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:46.907
So it's very dangerous

01:25:46.907 --> 01:25:48.985
which is one of the reasons why

01:25:48.985 --> 01:25:51.946
that number one, you don't tell people 
about your attainments

01:25:51.946 --> 01:25:53.852
because they could be wrong.

01:25:53.852 --> 01:25:56.636
Number two - check them out

01:25:56.636 --> 01:26:00.002
From what the Buddha said
this is the only real place

01:26:00.002 --> 01:26:02.605
you can actually get some authority.

01:26:02.605 --> 01:26:07.166
Not from me,
not from any other monk or nun

01:26:07.166 --> 01:26:10.625
but from this..
how the Buddha taught.

01:26:10.625 --> 01:26:15.880
Basic thing, a Stream-winner,
they can't have a sense of self.

01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:19.866
It's much easier to see if a 
person is an Anāgāmī or not

01:26:19.866 --> 01:26:27.173
(a non-returner) because non-returners
don't have any lust or ill-will.

01:26:27.173 --> 01:26:32.598
You cannot make a
non-returner angry

01:26:32.598 --> 01:26:36.096
which is one of the reasons we 
test people.

01:26:36.096 --> 01:26:41.253
If anybody says they are a 
non-returner..

01:26:41.253 --> 01:26:44.658
Mahesha is just laughing over there,

01:26:44.658 --> 01:26:46.658
I think I told this before Mahesha,

01:26:46.658 --> 01:26:48.093
if you say you are an Anāgāmī

01:26:48.093 --> 01:26:53.847
I would say "No way can a Sri Lankan 
Girl become a non-returner

01:26:53.847 --> 01:27:01.263
that's impossible. Maybe in your next
life when you become a boy, then you can"

01:27:01.263 --> 01:27:04.126
You know me..I don't believe
in that sort-of stuff

01:27:04.126 --> 01:27:06.805
but I say that to try and
irritate her

01:27:06.805 --> 01:27:08.609
get her upset, find her weak point.

01:27:08.609 --> 01:27:13.059
If she "what you misogynist, I 
believed in you, I thought you

01:27:13.059 --> 01:27:16.389
regarded everybody equal,
you are a modern monk"

01:27:16.389 --> 01:27:19.127
Sorry you failed the test.

01:27:19.127 --> 01:27:23.265
So you find peoples' weak points 
and try to make them angry.

01:27:23.265 --> 01:27:29.052
If they do get angry, yes,
the test is being concluded.

01:27:29.052 --> 01:27:33.047
And I don't mind these days because you
should find these things out yourself.

01:27:33.047 --> 01:27:37.364
A stream-winner, there is a little test

01:27:37.364 --> 01:27:41.105
it's in one of the commentaries.
I had to read this because

01:27:41.105 --> 01:27:46.161
if a monk or a Bhikkhuni say 
they are a Stream-winner

01:27:46.161 --> 01:27:50.099
and they are not, it can be 
like a capital offence.

01:27:50.099 --> 01:27:52.461
They have to be disrobed

01:27:52.461 --> 01:27:55.661
if they know they are lying,

01:27:55.661 --> 01:27:58.598
if they are just boasting it 
and they are not.

01:27:58.598 --> 01:28:01.298
So sometimes we have
to find out

01:28:01.298 --> 01:28:03.147
are they or are they not.

01:28:03.147 --> 01:28:06.813
So there is a little test,
one of those tests,

01:28:06.813 --> 01:28:10.666
two questions you have to ask 
for being a Stream Winner is

01:28:10.666 --> 01:28:15.522
when and where did it happen?

01:28:15.522 --> 01:28:19.233
When? 
What time of the day?

01:28:19.233 --> 01:28:21.734
Where? 
What were you doing?

01:28:21.734 --> 01:28:23.853
Because it's an event.

01:28:23.853 --> 01:28:26.675
It's not something you just 
goes on.

01:28:26.675 --> 01:28:29.750
"Yeah I have faith in non-self now

01:28:29.750 --> 01:28:32.104
and don't know exactly when 
that happened,"

01:28:32.104 --> 01:28:33.805
"yeah.. just understand it now."

01:28:33.805 --> 01:28:37.802
It's an event: stream-winning.

01:28:37.802 --> 01:28:40.416
That's a powerful thing to know.

01:28:40.416 --> 01:28:43.367
Now I've blown it with you guys now

01:28:43.367 --> 01:28:46.074
if you do want to sort-of fake 
stream-winning

01:28:46.074 --> 01:28:48.873
you would say... it happened at 
Dhammaloka Centre

01:28:48.873 --> 01:28:52.989
when Ajahn Brahm was doing the 
Sutta Class.

01:28:52.989 --> 01:28:55.484
So there are other ways to 
find that out.

01:28:55.484 --> 01:28:59.114
So yeah that's how you can
know it for sure.

01:28:59.114 --> 01:29:01.184
When did it happen?
where did it happen?

01:29:01.184 --> 01:29:02.938
And honestly check it out 
with the Suttas,

01:29:02.938 --> 01:29:07.226
is there any idea that there is 
self which is going to..

01:29:07.226 --> 01:29:11.724
a citta, an essence, anything,

01:29:11.724 --> 01:29:16.859
which will survive 
a death of an Arahant.

01:29:16.859 --> 01:29:19.339
Okay that actually finishes. Good.

01:29:19.339 --> 01:29:20.713
I wanted to finish it a bit early

01:29:20.733 --> 01:29:22.066
because it's Full-Moon Day today

01:29:22.066 --> 01:29:24.055
and I have to go back to the monastery

01:29:24.055 --> 01:29:26.425
for the Patimokkha ceremony and also

01:29:26.425 --> 01:29:30.696
tomorrow morning I am going to Sydney,
oh, not Sydney, to Canberra.

01:29:30.696 --> 01:29:32.775
But coming up next is the 
Second Factor

01:29:32.775 --> 01:29:35.757
which you can see on the board there

01:29:35.757 --> 01:29:40.258
it's not Right Intention

01:29:40.258 --> 01:29:43.066
but I am calling it 
Right Motivation.

01:29:43.066 --> 01:29:47.876
And I am sticking by this
as the word Saṅkappa

01:29:47.876 --> 01:29:51.869
and it's explained 
or it's translated

01:29:51.869 --> 01:29:57.237
by how it's defined,
not by it's etymology.

01:29:57.237 --> 01:30:00.209
In other words you take the word 
and you split it up

01:30:00.209 --> 01:30:02.727
or see how it's used in other places

01:30:02.727 --> 01:30:05.567
by how it's used in
this particular function

01:30:05.567 --> 01:30:08.624
as being number two in the 
Eightfold Path.

01:30:08.624 --> 01:30:10.605
The Right Motivation.

01:30:10.605 --> 01:30:12.803
And that actually opens up the 
Eightfold Path

01:30:12.803 --> 01:30:15.688
in a much more interesting 
understanding.

01:30:15.688 --> 01:30:18.719
But that will come in a couple of weeks 
or maybe in four weeks time

01:30:18.719 --> 01:30:23.544
because I will be in Hon Kong 
in two week's time

01:30:23.544 --> 01:30:25.906
but this is what's coming next.

01:30:25.906 --> 01:30:28.743
Now finished with Right View.

01:30:28.743 --> 01:30:30.729
So hope you enjoyed that,

01:30:30.729 --> 01:30:34.203
it's put online so if you want to 
go over it afterwards

01:30:34.203 --> 01:30:38.230
you can recall, get online 
and listen to it online again

01:30:38.230 --> 01:30:40.520
and just get more into it.

01:30:40.520 --> 01:30:42.540
Thank you for listening.

01:30:42.540 --> 01:30:45.320
Audience: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu

01:30:45.333 --> 01:30:48.661
Ajahn: Okay we can now
pay respects to the Buddha