1
00:00:00,657 --> 00:00:06,571
You want a ghost story?

2
00:00:06,571 --> 00:00:12,745
That was a dark and stormy afternoon

3
00:00:12,745 --> 00:00:21,089
and this English girl was visiting,

4
00:00:21,089 --> 00:00:23,496
sorry this Australian girl was 
visiting England

5
00:00:23,496 --> 00:00:28,234
You know that one already?

6
00:00:28,234 --> 00:00:31,779
Okay here's another one then.

7
00:00:31,779 --> 00:00:35,441
There was a friend of mine 
years ago

8
00:00:35,441 --> 00:00:39,232
and he bought a nice 
townhouse in London

9
00:00:39,232 --> 00:00:41,754
three or four stories

10
00:00:41,754 --> 00:00:45,272
and he bought it very very cheaply 
Why?

11
00:00:45,272 --> 00:00:48,024
And the agent was pretty honest with him

12
00:00:48,024 --> 00:00:51,309
he said people thought 
there was a ghost in the house

13
00:00:51,309 --> 00:00:54,952
these old English houses 
there are lots of ghosts

14
00:00:54,952 --> 00:00:59,492
He said "really" okay. but he doesn't 
believe in ghosts: "I will take it anyway"

15
00:00:59,492 --> 00:01:02,462
So the very first night when he 
got his new house

16
00:01:02,462 --> 00:01:04,554
and his furniture was coming 
the following morning

17
00:01:04,554 --> 00:01:10,899
so he got a camp bed and slept 
on the ground floor

18
00:01:10,899 --> 00:01:14,019
In the middle of the night 
he was woken up

19
00:01:14,019 --> 00:01:20,537
wrap, wrap, wrap, wrap 
he thought what was that

20
00:01:20,537 --> 00:01:22,935
He thought he just imagined it

21
00:01:22,935 --> 00:01:26,482
so he turned over and tried 
to sleep again and he heard again

22
00:01:26,482 --> 00:01:30,113
wrap wrap wrap wrap

23
00:01:30,113 --> 00:01:33,287
So he got out of bed, 
he checked all the windows

24
00:01:33,287 --> 00:01:34,804
they were all closed

25
00:01:34,804 --> 00:01:36,241
the doors were closed

26
00:01:36,241 --> 00:01:38,992
there were no mice,
it was a very well kept house,

27
00:01:38,992 --> 00:01:43,120
there was no logical explanation 
for anything making the noise

28
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,754
in that room.

29
00:01:44,754 --> 00:01:47,541
So he thought, it's just 
imagination.

30
00:01:47,541 --> 00:01:51,216
He turned around to go back to bed 
and he heard it much louder this time

31
00:01:51,216 --> 00:01:57,726
"wrap wrap, wrap wrap" it's coming
from upstairs - second storey.

32
00:01:57,726 --> 00:01:59,653
So he went upstairs, turned on the light,

33
00:01:59,653 --> 00:02:04,678
looked everywhere for any scientific 
cause for that sound.

34
00:02:04,678 --> 00:02:06,592
He couldn't find anything.

35
00:02:06,592 --> 00:02:09,402
He was getting a little bit concerned 
by this time

36
00:02:09,402 --> 00:02:12,666
but you know just giving up:
imagination can play tricks on you.

37
00:02:12,666 --> 00:02:16,720
Then he heard it coming from the 
top floor really loud

38
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,937
"wrap wrap wrap wrap".

39
00:02:20,937 --> 00:02:24,873
So he went up to the top floor,
turned on the lights,

40
00:02:24,873 --> 00:02:27,097
he was shaking a bit now,

41
00:02:27,097 --> 00:02:31,289
Doesn't matter; people say they are not 
afraid but when supernatural things happen

42
00:02:31,289 --> 00:02:33,430
you actually do get a bit scared.

43
00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:36,587
He checked everything in that 
third story but couldn't find any

44
00:02:36,587 --> 00:02:39,483
logical reason for anything 
making that noise.

45
00:02:39,483 --> 00:02:41,920
He was about to go downstairs

46
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:50,756
and he heard it loud as ever 
"wrap wrap.." coming from the attic.

47
00:02:50,756 --> 00:02:55,280
He didn't have any lights in the attic 
so he quickly went down to get his flashlight

48
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,577
and there was a little ladder that you can 
go to get up into the attic.

49
00:02:58,577 --> 00:03:02,144
He climbed up the ladder and he 
shone the flashlight in the attic:

50
00:03:02,144 --> 00:03:06,917
it was full of rubbish, cobwebs
and dust like attics are,

51
00:03:06,917 --> 00:03:11,777
and he turned around trying to 
find the source of this noise

52
00:03:11,777 --> 00:03:14,675
and then suddenly he heard 
it right behind him,

53
00:03:14,675 --> 00:03:19,186
loud as ever "Wrap Wrap Wrap Wrap".

54
00:03:19,186 --> 00:03:22,737
He turned around and he saw it 
he saw with the flashlight.

55
00:03:22,737 --> 00:03:33,419
It was an old piece of 
wrapping paper!

56
00:03:33,419 --> 00:03:36,697
That's a terrible joke:
wrapping paper

57
00:03:36,697 --> 00:03:45,912
goes "wrap wrap"
[Ajahn Laughs]

58
00:03:45,912 --> 00:03:49,941
That's going online 
overseas, has it ?

59
00:03:49,941 --> 00:03:54,001
My goodness I do apologize.

60
00:03:54,001 --> 00:03:58,149
People made me do that,
that's not my fault.

61
00:03:58,149 --> 00:04:02,010
Okay there is another 1 or 2 minutes 
before we start.

62
00:04:02,010 --> 00:04:19,232
I lost the monk somewhere 
anywhere I am sure he will find me.

63
00:04:19,232 --> 00:04:24,957
Clock says it's 3 o'clock 
so we may actually start now.

64
00:04:24,957 --> 00:04:28,655
So let's start with the Namo Thassa.

65
00:04:28,655 --> 00:04:37,740
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

66
00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:47,671
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

67
00:04:47,671 --> 00:04:57,805
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

68
00:04:57,805 --> 00:05:03,930
Buddham, Dhammam, Sangham namassami.

69
00:05:03,930 --> 00:05:05,193
Very Good.

70
00:05:05,193 --> 00:05:10,780
So as you all know by now 
this is the fortnightly Sutta Class

71
00:05:10,780 --> 00:05:14,246
second and fourth Sundays of the month 
outside the Rains Retreat

72
00:05:14,246 --> 00:05:17,721
one of the senior monks takes
a Sutta and discusses it.

73
00:05:17,721 --> 00:05:21,500
But instead of doing the Suttas 
most of which we have done before

74
00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,490
and are available on the internet

75
00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:32,527
I am using the opportunity to read out a 
re-translation of the "Word of the Buddha".

76
00:05:32,527 --> 00:05:39,644
This was a document which was first 
printed in German.

77
00:05:39,644 --> 00:05:45,004
I did some research recently;
in 1906 in German,

78
00:05:45,004 --> 00:05:48,904
translated into English in 1907.

79
00:05:48,904 --> 00:05:52,947
So the translation does need 
to be updated,

80
00:05:52,947 --> 00:05:55,065
updated for several reasons,

81
00:05:55,065 --> 00:06:00,532
first of all some of the words,
the language, is a bit outdated,

82
00:06:00,532 --> 00:06:03,585
stilted, and makes it hard to understand.

83
00:06:03,585 --> 00:06:08,063
Also that some of the translations 
we can do much better

84
00:06:08,063 --> 00:06:13,683
than the first attempt at translating 
Pali words into English;

85
00:06:13,683 --> 00:06:20,882
and thirdly, it's something which 
I learnt from when I learned Pali

86
00:06:20,882 --> 00:06:25,224
from Professor A.K. Warder
who is another Cambridge guy,

87
00:06:25,224 --> 00:06:27,450
because of it he must be okay.

88
00:06:27,450 --> 00:06:33,865
He taught me; you do not 
translate word by word,

89
00:06:33,865 --> 00:06:38,820
you translate phrase by phrase 
or sentence by sentence

90
00:06:38,820 --> 00:06:44,800
because the unit of language 
is a phrase, it's not a word.

91
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,944
So words only have meaning 
in the context of what goes before

92
00:06:47,944 --> 00:06:51,602
and what goes after them.
So we never should translate,

93
00:06:51,602 --> 00:06:53,687
(but many people do)
word for word:

94
00:06:53,687 --> 00:06:56,587
should be sentence for sentence,
or phrase by phrase,

95
00:06:56,587 --> 00:06:58,859
and that's what I have 
attempted to do here.

96
00:06:58,859 --> 00:07:01,957
So it's a different translation 
than you had before.

97
00:07:01,957 --> 00:07:04,272
So far I have got reasonably 
good feedback:

98
00:07:04,272 --> 00:07:08,214
that people find it much more 
easy to understand.

99
00:07:08,214 --> 00:07:11,228
It takes away much of the repetition

100
00:07:11,228 --> 00:07:14,724
which you find if you read 
the existing translations

101
00:07:14,724 --> 00:07:18,751
and it makes it a little bit 
more powerful

102
00:07:18,751 --> 00:07:23,196
because you are not distracted by 
things like repetition,

103
00:07:23,196 --> 00:07:28,595
you are not sort-of distracted by 
words meaning is a bit weird and strange.

104
00:07:28,619 --> 00:07:35,400
We try and use ordinary words 
which are common in 2017.

105
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,374
So that's the reason I am doing this.

106
00:07:38,374 --> 00:07:43,382
I should mention to anyone coming 
for the first time

107
00:07:43,382 --> 00:07:49,374
that this is based on the Buddha's
teachings from the Suttas.

108
00:07:49,374 --> 00:07:54,245
It's an Anthology where we take 
this Sutta or part of this Sutta

109
00:07:54,245 --> 00:07:59,419
and part of another Sutta and we string 
that together along a theme

110
00:07:59,419 --> 00:08:02,109
and the theme is the 
Four Nobles Truths.

111
00:08:02,109 --> 00:08:03,836
And with the Four Nobles Truths

112
00:08:03,836 --> 00:08:07,892
we also have the last of those 
Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path

113
00:08:07,892 --> 00:08:10,163
and this is where we are right now.

114
00:08:10,163 --> 00:08:14,433
We're just, almost, completing
the first of the Eightfold Path

115
00:08:14,433 --> 00:08:19,888
called Right View.
And Right View is many many things

116
00:08:19,888 --> 00:08:22,907
but here we get to that part of 
Right View

117
00:08:22,907 --> 00:08:27,072
that if one really penetrates
the Right View

118
00:08:27,072 --> 00:08:30,135
and here is actually 
what they say there

119
00:08:30,135 --> 00:08:35,597
Diṭṭhipatho -- diṭṭhi means the right view 
'Patho' means achieved (right view).

120
00:08:35,597 --> 00:08:38,774
If you are one who has achieved 
right view

121
00:08:38,774 --> 00:08:42,310
then that's a simile for being 
a Stream-Winner.

122
00:08:42,310 --> 00:08:46,514
So this is no small thing,
it's the view when it gets corrected

123
00:08:46,539 --> 00:08:50,645
which makes the person
a Sowan a Stream-Winner.

124
00:08:50,645 --> 00:08:53,420
So this is where we are 
at the moment.

125
00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:55,834
The Sotāpanna or Stream-Winner.

126
00:08:55,834 --> 00:09:00,463
This is from Majjhima Nikāya 22.
I give the references so anyone can

127
00:09:00,463 --> 00:09:05,479
go and check-up the other 
translations which you may find in

128
00:09:05,479 --> 00:09:08,986
books by Bhikkhu Bodhi which is 
much more academic

129
00:09:08,986 --> 00:09:15,408
or you can even better learn some Pali and
look it up in the original, which is the best.

130
00:09:15,408 --> 00:09:19,252
"When you contemplate in this way,"

131
00:09:19,252 --> 00:09:22,200
(and what we were doing before 
the contemplating no-self)

132
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,476
"when you are contemplating in this way 
three fetters are abandoned in you"

133
00:09:27,476 --> 00:09:31,469
And the word fetter it's what a 
policeman would put on you

134
00:09:31,469 --> 00:09:35,824
like handcuff, balls and chains,

135
00:09:35,824 --> 00:09:40,533
it means something which stops 
moving, which stops you being free.

136
00:09:40,533 --> 00:09:43,484
"three fetters are abandoned in you:

137
00:09:43,484 --> 00:09:47,309
a view of a permanent essence"
(otherwise known as a soul

138
00:09:47,309 --> 00:09:53,092
but to make it more accurate an essence,
an essence of this body and mind

139
00:09:53,092 --> 00:09:57,830
which you take to be you, which is 
permanent, which goes from life to life,


140
00:09:57,830 --> 00:10:00,524
that's a view which is abandoned

141
00:10:00,524 --> 00:10:03,472
at Stream-winning: a permanent essence.

142
00:10:03,472 --> 00:10:09,862
"...skeptical doubt and belief that rites
and rituals are sufficient in themselves

143
00:10:09,862 --> 00:10:16,250
to reach enlightenment. Those who
have abandoned three fetters are all

144
00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:20,101
stream-enterers, no longer subject
to rebirth in a lower realm

145
00:10:20,101 --> 00:10:23,917
and headed for full enlightenment."

146
00:10:23,917 --> 00:10:31,639
So the view of a permanent essence is the
core of those wrong views which are overcome.

147
00:10:31,639 --> 00:10:39,652
The skeptical doubt: all skeptical doubt can
only be overcome with direct experience.

148
00:10:39,652 --> 00:10:45,773
So this is not something you just
believe that there is no self,

149
00:10:45,773 --> 00:10:50,338
just like you may believe in
like a Jesus or Allah or something.

150
00:10:50,338 --> 00:10:53,683
This is actually a direct experience

151
00:10:53,683 --> 00:10:58,648
which means all skeptical doubt,
all doubt, is totally abolished.

152
00:10:58,648 --> 00:11:03,250
And it has to be a strong experience,

153
00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:05,935
not just a little understanding.

154
00:11:05,935 --> 00:11:08,891
This is an experience which has to come

155
00:11:08,891 --> 00:11:11,010
when in the Buddhist way 
of looking at things

156
00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:17,973
five hindrances which are what 
stops and blocks wisdom arising,

157
00:11:17,973 --> 00:11:22,993
when those five hindrances are overcome,
when the five hindrances,

158
00:11:22,993 --> 00:11:25,195
they call them hindrances:
it's a good word.

159
00:11:25,195 --> 00:11:29,195
What are they hindering: wisdom
They block it.

160
00:11:29,195 --> 00:11:33,332
It's like looking through a mist:
you are not being able to see clearly.

161
00:11:33,355 --> 00:11:39,828
So those hindrances, it's the purpose of deep
meditation to overcome those, so you can see clearly.

162
00:11:39,828 --> 00:11:44,442
Then of course once it's seen clearly 
with pre or post Jhana mind

163
00:11:44,442 --> 00:11:47,428
then no skeptical doubt left at all.

164
00:11:47,428 --> 00:11:50,077
That's a very powerful experience.

165
00:11:50,077 --> 00:11:52,318
And also the belief that 
rites and rituals are

166
00:11:52,318 --> 00:11:54,797
sufficient in themselves to 
reach enlightenment,

167
00:11:54,797 --> 00:12:00,127
it may seem why do we have that 
as a fetter or a wrong view

168
00:12:00,127 --> 00:12:03,554
when most people in the Western World

169
00:12:03,554 --> 00:12:06,526
we don't really do much 
of rites and rituals

170
00:12:06,526 --> 00:12:09,629
but still there are many many 
people even alive today

171
00:12:09,629 --> 00:12:15,313
who still believe that by doing chanting
or by doing this ritual or that rite

172
00:12:15,313 --> 00:12:18,930
that you can actually say you are 
a stream-winner or whatever.

173
00:12:18,930 --> 00:12:23,681
And of course it's not a something 
to be gained by rites or rituals

174
00:12:23,681 --> 00:12:28,989
like say a marriage or like...
what's another rite and ritual..

175
00:12:28,989 --> 00:12:30,949
marriage is the best one.

176
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:35,159
This is something which is 
beyond rites and rituals,

177
00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:39,837
it's something which comes 
from deep meditations.

178
00:12:39,837 --> 00:12:42,147
So these are the three things 
which are abandoned

179
00:12:42,147 --> 00:12:46,924
and the most important one of them is the
view of a permanent essence: a soul.

180
00:12:46,924 --> 00:12:50,464
And those who abandon these three 
fetters are all Stream-enterers,

181
00:12:50,464 --> 00:12:53,523
no longer subject to rebirth in a lower realm

182
00:12:53,523 --> 00:13:00,202
which means you are never going to be 
reborn as an animal, as a hungry ghost

183
00:13:00,202 --> 00:13:03,797
which goes "wrap wrap"
in the middle of the night,

184
00:13:03,797 --> 00:13:08,619
never reborn in any hell realm.

185
00:13:08,619 --> 00:13:13,018
Even though one may have bad kamma

186
00:13:13,018 --> 00:13:17,287
just like in the time of the Buddha 
there was this gentleman called Angulimala,

187
00:13:17,287 --> 00:13:28,597
a serial killer and he managed to avoid being
reborn in lower realms as a result of his murdering,

188
00:13:28,597 --> 00:13:34,661
and of course it really needs us to 
actually inquire the question why

189
00:13:34,661 --> 00:13:40,386
why is like kamma which is such an 
important part of Buddhism,

190
00:13:40,386 --> 00:13:43,753
you know if you do bad things 
you have to pay the consequences,

191
00:13:43,753 --> 00:13:53,210
why is it for stream-winners
they get out of jail free: why?

192
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:56,277
And I have mentioned this in 
many of the talks before,

193
00:13:56,277 --> 00:14:00,700
it's because, this is not here 
this is Ajahn Brahm

194
00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:05,315
when you have a sense of self 
you haven't seen non-self,

195
00:14:05,328 --> 00:14:09,558
then you will always have guilt

196
00:14:09,558 --> 00:14:13,231
it's very hard to 
forgive yourself

197
00:14:13,484 --> 00:14:16,898
when you think there is a self there.

198
00:14:16,898 --> 00:14:22,719
So forgiveness, it's actually based
on an identity

199
00:14:22,719 --> 00:14:25,256
Sorry, not forgiveness, guilt, sorry.

200
00:14:25,256 --> 00:14:31,057
Guilt is based on your very deep belief
that there is an identity there,

201
00:14:31,057 --> 00:14:35,553
a being continuous from that time:
you did that deed till now

202
00:14:35,553 --> 00:14:39,012
which needs to be punished.

203
00:14:39,012 --> 00:14:41,256
This is one of the wonderful 
things about Buddhism,

204
00:14:41,256 --> 00:14:42,971
I have said this many times:

205
00:14:42,971 --> 00:14:47,643
we don't have punishment 
because the Buddha saw non-self.

206
00:14:47,643 --> 00:14:51,263
There is no need to punish yourself now

207
00:14:51,263 --> 00:14:54,598
for something you did a long time ago.

208
00:14:54,598 --> 00:14:57,338
There is no need but we still do it

209
00:14:57,338 --> 00:15:00,625
because we haven't penetrated non-self.

210
00:15:00,625 --> 00:15:05,130
Once you see this truth,

211
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:09,307
that there is no permanent essence
within you

212
00:15:09,307 --> 00:15:15,371
then that makes it very easy 
to let go of the past.

213
00:15:15,371 --> 00:15:22,953
It's not your past; even though someone
by your name perpetrated that bad deed.

214
00:15:22,953 --> 00:15:26,887
It overcomes guilt
and once guilt is let go of

215
00:15:26,887 --> 00:15:30,516
(in other words real true forgiveness 
of yourself)

216
00:15:30,516 --> 00:15:36,665
then there is no reason to send yourself
to any lower realm.

217
00:15:36,665 --> 00:15:40,598
And for those people who say 
lower realms, hells and heavens,

218
00:15:40,598 --> 00:15:46,903
these are the same as other old
Abrahamic religions is it just a myth,

219
00:15:46,903 --> 00:15:49,100
when we understand 
what these places are

220
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:52,069
you understand why they 
are not a myth at all:

221
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:56,358
you create your heavens and hells

222
00:15:56,358 --> 00:16:00,874
they are not some place waiting 
for you like Bali or like London

223
00:16:00,874 --> 00:16:03,158
you just travel there 
and there it is.

224
00:16:03,158 --> 00:16:07,636
You create these places, 
these are mind-made realms

225
00:16:07,636 --> 00:16:10,463
and once you understand 
the power of this mind

226
00:16:10,463 --> 00:16:15,920
with lots of meditation you understand
how these realms are created,

227
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:21,035
created to suit you
however much you want to be punished.

228
00:16:21,035 --> 00:16:28,702
That's how much you create the pain
of that realm: you do it yourself.

229
00:16:28,702 --> 00:16:31,733
Whatever you think you 
need to be rewarded for,

230
00:16:31,733 --> 00:16:33,829
you think you have been 
a good person,

231
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:37,708
that's how you create your
heaven accordingly.

232
00:16:37,708 --> 00:16:41,426
So that's why rebirth in a lower realm

233
00:16:41,426 --> 00:16:44,470
is shut out for you,
you don't need that anymore.

234
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:46,952
And headed for full enlightenment.

235
00:16:46,952 --> 00:16:52,725
In how many lifetimes do you 
have after you become a stream-winner,

236
00:16:52,725 --> 00:16:59,716
Nicholas you are banned from answering
this question because you know the answer,

237
00:16:59,716 --> 00:17:02,529
some people say seven
some people say six.

238
00:17:02,529 --> 00:17:05,144
Put your hand up for 
seven more lifetimes.

239
00:17:05,144 --> 00:17:08,284
Put your hand up for 
six more lifetimes.

240
00:17:08,284 --> 00:17:11,199
All the ones for six more lifetimes 
you have listened to me before

241
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,416
because in Buddhism this 
lifetime is number one,

242
00:17:16,416 --> 00:17:20,130
so six more as well as this one.

243
00:17:20,201 --> 00:17:27,033
Just the same way that many of you
who are Asian or know Asian friends:

244
00:17:27,033 --> 00:17:35,994
I was born in 1951 in August so I am now
65 years and a half in sort-of Australia

245
00:17:35,994 --> 00:17:41,791
but in Asia I am 66.
This is my 66th year.

246
00:17:41,791 --> 00:17:46,886
It's one of the reasons why
in Asia you can retire one year earlier

247
00:17:46,886 --> 00:17:51,420
drive a car one year earlier,
go to the pub one year earlier - no you can't do that,

248
00:17:51,420 --> 00:17:55,575
they count earlier: as soon as
you are born you are one.

249
00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:59,022
So this is the same here,
the way of counting means

250
00:17:59,022 --> 00:18:06,679
this is one life, you have six more 
lives after this; at most. Maximum.

251
00:18:06,679 --> 00:18:12,138
Now sometimes people ask
what if you are a stream-winner

252
00:18:12,138 --> 00:18:16,836
you only got this life plus six more, what
happens if you decide out of compassion

253
00:18:16,836 --> 00:18:23,847
to actually not to have six more 
lives but have six hundred lives.

254
00:18:23,847 --> 00:18:25,910
What if you want to be 
Bodhisattva?

255
00:18:25,910 --> 00:18:32,532
Put off your Enlightenment from here 
on in so that you can teach other people.

256
00:18:32,532 --> 00:18:36,821
Any comments? Yes Ananda.
(comment not audible)

257
00:18:36,821 --> 00:18:41,630
Exactly you can't; there is no one 
in there to make the choice.

258
00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:44,555
This is an automatic process.

259
00:18:44,555 --> 00:18:47,969
You can't delay it, you can't rush it,

260
00:18:47,969 --> 00:18:49,969
you can't do anything.

261
00:18:49,969 --> 00:18:54,521
It's just the same as if I am
going to Canberra tomorrow morning.

262
00:18:54,521 --> 00:18:58,987
If when I am going to Canberra,
I usually travel Virgin Airlines

263
00:18:58,987 --> 00:19:07,114
because Virgin is the appropriate 
airline for a monk,

264
00:19:07,114 --> 00:19:13,175
So when I am travelling,
suppose I ask the pilot and say:

265
00:19:13,175 --> 00:19:16,644
look I always wanted to see 
asphalt from the air can you please

266
00:19:16,644 --> 00:19:21,262
sweeping down pass the asphalt 
just go round a few times just for me.

267
00:19:21,262 --> 00:19:24,682
Would they do that? Of course not
because he has got a schedule,

268
00:19:24,682 --> 00:19:28,772
he has to go to Canberra,
he can't just stop just for me.

269
00:19:28,772 --> 00:19:32,039
So this is the same as trying to 
put off your enlightenment

270
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,410
at that particular time, once 
you are a stream-winner; it's too late.

271
00:19:35,410 --> 00:19:38,000
You can't put off anything anymore.

272
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,490
Your sense of self is gone. 
You can't control, it's too late.

273
00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:49,029
Whether you like it or not 
six more lifetimes at most.

274
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:51,278
Now we have, I very rarely do this

275
00:19:51,278 --> 00:19:53,874
because I want to have this 
as the Word of the Buddha

276
00:19:53,874 --> 00:19:56,889
but Bhikkhu Bodhi did an 
excellent commentary

277
00:19:56,889 --> 00:20:02,133
trying to bring everything together 
on the Noble Ones and the 10 fetters.

278
00:20:02,133 --> 00:20:04,294
So I'm going to read that out now.

279
00:20:04,294 --> 00:20:09,571
"On entering the irreversible path 
to attainment of Nibbāna,

280
00:20:09,571 --> 00:20:12,476
That's what I said irreversible, 
once you are on that path that's it.

281
00:20:12,476 --> 00:20:16,048
You are on the bus, 
it doesn't do a U-turn.

282
00:20:16,048 --> 00:20:19,779
On entering the irreversible path 
to the attainment of Nibbāna,

283
00:20:19,779 --> 00:20:24,355
one becomes a noble person 
called ariyapuggala

284
00:20:24,355 --> 00:20:28,386
Ariya means a noble one 
puggala means a person

285
00:20:28,386 --> 00:20:34,127
I do know that in Nazi Germany 
they started to take that word Ariyan

286
00:20:34,127 --> 00:20:37,070
and give it meanings which it 
didn't really deserve

287
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:39,887
they even took the swastika, turned it 
the other ways around

288
00:20:39,891 --> 00:20:42,461
and used that as their symbol.

289
00:20:42,461 --> 00:20:44,269
So sometimes when you 
use the word Ariya

290
00:20:44,269 --> 00:20:46,720
sometimes people say 
hey what you are talking about

291
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,314
But Ariya is a very old word 
means a noble person

292
00:20:50,314 --> 00:20:52,956
and in this particular 
case it refers to a person

293
00:20:52,956 --> 00:20:56,502
who is stream-winner or above.

294
00:20:56,502 --> 00:21:00,591
the word “noble ariya" here 
denoting spiritual nobility.

295
00:21:00,591 --> 00:21:05,151
and just to make sure you understand 
why we never tell anybody,

296
00:21:05,151 --> 00:21:07,734
it's against our monastic rules

297
00:21:07,734 --> 00:21:11,879
to tell anybody who is a 
stream-winner, who is a once-returner

298
00:21:11,879 --> 00:21:14,515
non-returner or Arahant

299
00:21:14,515 --> 00:21:16,542
Many times you ask me that,

300
00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:19,052
I usually say no, 
I can't tell you

301
00:21:19,052 --> 00:21:20,369
it's kept a secret,

302
00:21:20,369 --> 00:21:24,881
the reason why is because we 
don't want to split the Sangha

303
00:21:24,881 --> 00:21:27,422
into the two classes

304
00:21:27,422 --> 00:21:32,473
High class; these are the stream-winners 
non returners

305
00:21:32,473 --> 00:21:36,987
and the riff raff

306
00:21:36,987 --> 00:21:42,427
And the story is, because honestly 
if you all know which monk

307
00:21:42,427 --> 00:21:44,811
in Bodhinyana Monastery and Nuns
which was an Arahant

308
00:21:44,811 --> 00:21:48,443
which was the stream-winner 
which was this riff raff

309
00:21:48,443 --> 00:21:51,525
suppose one of the riff raff monks 
was coming to give the talk

310
00:21:51,525 --> 00:21:55,022
I am not going to listen to him 
he is only riff raff

311
00:21:55,022 --> 00:21:58,262
Not only that

312
00:21:58,262 --> 00:22:00,909
My first year in Thailand

313
00:22:00,909 --> 00:22:02,788
very bad food

314
00:22:02,788 --> 00:22:08,010
one morning a big Ute came 
a pick-up truck

315
00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:11,627
In the back was full of pots 
and pans you could smell it

316
00:22:11,627 --> 00:22:15,317
from the refectory; delicious 
food they were bringing that day.

317
00:22:15,317 --> 00:22:17,445
And I could see it through the 
window and I thought

318
00:22:17,445 --> 00:22:20,388
Wow today I am going to get a nice meal

319
00:22:20,388 --> 00:22:23,606
We only had one meal a day 
just one chance

320
00:22:23,606 --> 00:22:26,901
And the driver came out and 
went into the halls

321
00:22:26,901 --> 00:22:30,974
those days 42 years ago may be 
only 50 monks 60 monks there

322
00:22:30,974 --> 00:22:32,495
including Ajahn Chah

323
00:22:32,495 --> 00:22:36,773
came in and said 
'Is Ajahn Chah here today'

324
00:22:36,773 --> 00:22:40,545
he wasn't, he was in somebody's house
doing a blessing

325
00:22:40,545 --> 00:22:43,781
He is not here today? and I said 'no'

326
00:22:43,781 --> 00:22:48,288
Then he got in the car 
and drove away

327
00:22:48,288 --> 00:22:50,910
He never gave us any of that food

328
00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:55,721
When you are only 23 really hungry 
that hurts

329
00:22:55,721 --> 00:22:58,755
And it was just because 
they never thought

330
00:22:58,755 --> 00:23:02,030
young monks, you don't get much merits 
for that food.

331
00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:04,806
Ajahn Chah he gets much more merit.

332
00:23:04,806 --> 00:23:08,174
They invest in places where 
they get greater returns

333
00:23:08,174 --> 00:23:10,807
That's actually true and that's 
why we never say

334
00:23:10,807 --> 00:23:12,139
There is also the old joke;

335
00:23:12,139 --> 00:23:16,000
if we did say splitting up the two monks; 
two types of monks

336
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,700
the ordinary monks and the 
nobility

337
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:26,901
it would create not the Ariyastocracy 
not the Aristocracy, the Ariyastocracy

338
00:23:26,901 --> 00:23:28,221
you know the big shots

339
00:23:28,221 --> 00:23:33,411
so we don't do that, we try and keep 
everybody equal, everyone respected

340
00:23:33,411 --> 00:23:38,565
Also please do that with yourself 
as lay people

341
00:23:38,565 --> 00:23:42,094
Don't go around telling other 
people 'I am a stream-winner'

342
00:23:42,094 --> 00:23:45,555
Ah! that's nothing, I was a 
stream-winner two years ago

343
00:23:45,555 --> 00:23:48,251
I am a once-returner

344
00:23:48,251 --> 00:23:51,802
Once-returner; that's nothing
I am a non-returner

345
00:23:51,802 --> 00:23:53,155
that's nothing I am an
Arahant

346
00:23:53,155 --> 00:23:54,902
that's nothing, I got psychic powers

347
00:23:54,902 --> 00:23:56,732
that's noting

348
00:23:56,732 --> 00:23:59,773
Don't get into that spiritual pride

349
00:23:59,773 --> 00:24:02,423
So anyway

350
00:24:02,423 --> 00:24:04,034
So we always keep it quite

351
00:24:04,034 --> 00:24:05,672
it's not an attainment

352
00:24:05,672 --> 00:24:08,743
your ego, your sense of self 
is supposed to be diminishing

353
00:24:08,743 --> 00:24:09,914
not increasing

354
00:24:09,914 --> 00:24:13,613
you are seeing non-self 
not something you are proud of

355
00:24:13,613 --> 00:24:17,223
So on entering the irreversible path 
to the attainment of Nibbāna,

356
00:24:17,223 --> 00:24:19,957
one becomes a noble person (ariyapuggala),

357
00:24:19,957 --> 00:24:23,523
the word “noble” (ariya) here 
denoting spiritual nobility.

358
00:24:23,523 --> 00:24:26,484
There are four major types of 
noble persons.

359
00:24:26,484 --> 00:24:30,335
and each stage is 
divided into two phases:

360
00:24:30,335 --> 00:24:33,113
the path and its fruition.

361
00:24:33,113 --> 00:24:35,405
In the path phase, 
one is said to be practicing

362
00:24:35,405 --> 00:24:38,389
for the attainment of a 
particular fruition,

363
00:24:38,389 --> 00:24:42,758
which one is bound to 
realize within that same life;

364
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:46,325
in the resultant phase, one is said 
to be established in that fruition.

365
00:24:46,325 --> 00:24:49,253
Thus the four major types of 
noble persons

366
00:24:49,253 --> 00:24:53,511
actually comprise four pairs 
or eight types of noble individuals.

367
00:24:53,511 --> 00:24:55,262
As enumerated these are:

368
00:24:55,262 --> 00:24:58,569
one practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of stream-entry

369
00:24:58,569 --> 00:25:00,637
and the stream-enterer,

370
00:25:00,637 --> 00:25:03,937
one practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of once-returning

371
00:25:03,937 --> 00:25:05,848
and the once-returner

372
00:25:05,848 --> 00:25:09,931
one practicing for the realization 
of the fruit of non-returning,

373
00:25:09,931 --> 00:25:11,602
and the non-returner

374
00:25:11,602 --> 00:25:13,438
one practicing for arahantship,

375
00:25:13,438 --> 00:25:16,517
and the Arahant (fully enlightened)

376
00:25:16,517 --> 00:25:19,629
The first seven persons are 
collectively known as sekhas

377
00:25:19,629 --> 00:25:23,207
or trainees or 
disciples in the higher training;

378
00:25:23,207 --> 00:25:28,860
only the arahant is called 
the asekha, the one beyond training.

379
00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:32,129
The reason why we say that 
is because

380
00:25:32,129 --> 00:25:35,340
any of you who do the 
standard chanting

381
00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:37,999
Ithipiso Bagawa

382
00:25:37,999 --> 00:25:42,041
when you get to the third 
quality of the Sangha

383
00:25:42,041 --> 00:25:44,462
Supatipanno Bhagavato sāvakasangho

384
00:25:44,462 --> 00:25:45,319
it goes on to

385
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:46,949
Esa Bhagavato sāvakasangho

386
00:25:46,949 --> 00:25:49,373
what was it then

387
00:25:49,373 --> 00:25:53,327
cattāri purisa yugāni
Attha purisa puggalā

388
00:25:53,327 --> 00:25:55,350
the four people, 
the eight pairs

389
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:56,854
no; the four pairs
the eight people

390
00:25:56,854 --> 00:25:58,270
this is where that comes from

391
00:25:58,270 --> 00:26:01,420
four pairs is the 
and the eight people

392
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,634
Stream-winner, Once-returner 
Non-returner, Arahant

393
00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:10,252
then divided into pairs 
the one on the path and then got to the goal.

394
00:26:10,252 --> 00:26:14,469
The four main stages themselves 
are defined in two ways:

395
00:26:14,469 --> 00:26:17,302
by way of the defilements 
eradicated by the path leading

396
00:26:17,302 --> 00:26:19,732
to the corresponding fruit; 
and by way of the destiny

397
00:26:19,732 --> 00:26:24,661
after death that awaits one 
who has realized that particular fruit.

398
00:26:24,661 --> 00:26:25,959
In other words

399
00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:30,332
by what's been abandoned: and what's 
going to happen to you after you die.

400
00:26:30,332 --> 00:26:33,152
So the Stream-enterer abandons the 
first three fetters

401
00:26:33,152 --> 00:26:37,034
the view of a soul that's, the view of a 
truly existent permanent essence

402
00:26:37,034 --> 00:26:39,863
either as identical with the 
five components of existence

403
00:26:39,863 --> 00:26:41,263
that's the five Khandas

404
00:26:41,263 --> 00:26:46,664
or as existing in some relation
to the five Khandas

405
00:26:46,664 --> 00:26:50,482
So basically no where can you
find a sense of a self

406
00:26:50,482 --> 00:26:52,432
a permanent essence either

407
00:26:52,432 --> 00:26:57,444
identical with the five Khandas 
or existing in some relationship to them.

408
00:26:57,444 --> 00:27:01,564
doubt about the Buddha, the Dhamma, 
and the Saṅgha, and the training;

409
00:27:01,564 --> 00:27:07,373
and the wrong grasp of rules and 
observances that's the belief that

410
00:27:07,373 --> 00:27:11,020
mere external observances, 
particularly religious rituals

411
00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:16,216
and ascetic practices, 
can lead to liberation.

412
00:27:16,216 --> 00:27:20,576
And the example of that 
from the Suttas is the Buddha

413
00:27:20,576 --> 00:27:22,867
once met; 
this is in the Dheega Nikaya

414
00:27:22,867 --> 00:27:24,257
I haven't mentioned 
it here

415
00:27:24,257 --> 00:27:27,217
Once mentioned these two 
ascetics in India

416
00:27:27,217 --> 00:27:31,451
one was a cow ascetic and
one was a dog ascetic

417
00:27:31,451 --> 00:27:36,210
And the cow ascetic went 
around on all fours,

418
00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:39,675
ate grass, slept with cows 
and went moo

419
00:27:39,675 --> 00:27:43,298
and the dog ascetic 
acted like a dog

420
00:27:43,298 --> 00:27:44,870
and they came up to the Buddha

421
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:46,436
they were actually quite good friends

422
00:27:46,436 --> 00:27:48,308
these are human beings, 
if you ever been to India

423
00:27:48,308 --> 00:27:50,808
and you see some of the stuff 
which goes on there

424
00:27:50,808 --> 00:27:53,032
maybe you can 
actually believe that

425
00:27:53,032 --> 00:27:54,408
And they asked the Buddha

426
00:27:54,408 --> 00:27:59,329
'what happens, we were told that this; 
a very hard thing to do,

427
00:27:59,329 --> 00:28:03,108
imagine the endurance you need 
to do that, survive

428
00:28:03,108 --> 00:28:07,190
and they said 'what would happen 
to us after we die'

429
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:11,560
'Are we going to be Arahants?' 
because we are giving up so much

430
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,748
And the Buddha said 
please don't ask me

431
00:28:14,748 --> 00:28:19,041
when they pressed him, He said 
Well if you act like that

432
00:28:19,041 --> 00:28:25,390
then after death you will be reborn 
as a dog and you be reborn as a cow.

433
00:28:25,390 --> 00:28:29,464
He didn't like to give that answer at all.

434
00:28:29,464 --> 00:28:31,668
But people actually do those 
rites and rituals thinking that

435
00:28:31,668 --> 00:28:36,517
by such practices, they are 
going to get somewhere.

436
00:28:36,517 --> 00:28:40,840
And the Stream-enterer 
that's what they give up

437
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,543
the destination is assured of 
attaining full Enlightenment

438
00:28:44,543 --> 00:28:47,384
at least in a six more existences

439
00:28:47,384 --> 00:28:50,914
which would take place either 
in the human realm or the heavenly realms

440
00:28:50,914 --> 00:28:53,648
The stream-enterer will never undergo 
an eighth existence

441
00:28:53,648 --> 00:28:55,614
the present existence is counted as the first

442
00:28:55,614 --> 00:29:00,112
and is forever freed from 
rebirth in the three lower realms

443
00:29:00,112 --> 00:29:03,421
the hells, the realm of afflicted with 
spirits (ghosts), and the animal realm.

444
00:29:03,421 --> 00:29:06,302
Remember this is Bhikkhu Bodhi

445
00:29:06,302 --> 00:29:10,774
The once-returner does not 
eradicate any new fetters.

446
00:29:10,774 --> 00:29:13,958
He or she has eliminated the three 
fetters that the stream-enterer

447
00:29:13,958 --> 00:29:17,429
has destroyed, and additionally 
weakens the

448
00:29:17,429 --> 00:29:23,126
three unwholesome roots— 
wanting, aversion, and delusion.

449
00:29:23,126 --> 00:29:26,966
So these wanting and the will-ill 
(aversion) they have been weakened

450
00:29:26,966 --> 00:29:28,926
but not fully abandoned yet.

451
00:29:28,926 --> 00:29:31,036
so that they do not arise often

452
00:29:31,036 --> 00:29:35,154
and, when they do arise, 
do not become obsessive.

453
00:29:35,154 --> 00:29:37,926
As the name implies, the once-returner 
will come back to this world

454
00:29:37,926 --> 00:29:41,875
only one more time and 
then make an end to suffering.

455
00:29:41,875 --> 00:29:46,104
The non-returner eradicates 
the five 'basic fetters'.

456
00:29:46,104 --> 00:29:52,263
I call them basic fetters because this is 
the base by which we keep getting reborn.

457
00:29:52,263 --> 00:29:58,946
that's, in addition to the three fetters 
eliminated by the stream-enterer,

458
00:29:58,946 --> 00:30:02,116
the non-returner eradicates two 
additional fetters,

459
00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:06,501
the desire for the five senses, 
and anything to do with the five senses

460
00:30:06,501 --> 00:30:11,226
that's wanting to do with seeing, 
hearing, smelling, tasting and touching

461
00:30:11,226 --> 00:30:12,772
are totally abandoned.

462
00:30:12,772 --> 00:30:14,866
and aversion.

463
00:30:14,866 --> 00:30:19,083
Because non-returners have eradicated 
desire for the five sense world,

464
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:23,504
they have no ties binding 
them to this world.

465
00:30:23,504 --> 00:30:30,410
Thus they take birth in the 'pure abodes'
(suddhāvāsa) only for non-returners.

466
00:30:30,410 --> 00:30:35,588
Another mind-made realm. 
That's all they got left; the mind.

467
00:30:35,588 --> 00:30:37,653
They attain final Nibbāna there,

468
00:30:37,653 --> 00:30:43,019
without ever returning to rebirth in
the worlds of the five senses.

469
00:30:43,019 --> 00:30:48,272
The non-returner, however, is still 
bound by the five 'higher fetters':

470
00:30:48,272 --> 00:30:52,836
attachment to Jhāna, and here I 
always say okay I admit that you can be

471
00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:59,569
attached jhānas but it only means 
you can't make that last step

472
00:30:59,569 --> 00:31:03,535
from non-returner to an Arahant yet.

473
00:31:03,535 --> 00:31:07,505
So it's one of those attachments 
which is not really worth talking about

474
00:31:07,505 --> 00:31:09,342
at this stage.

475
00:31:09,342 --> 00:31:14,056
Later on when you become a 
non-returner then we can talk about that.

476
00:31:14,056 --> 00:31:17,592
But be attached to the jhāna till 
you get there first.

477
00:31:17,592 --> 00:31:19,836
and attachment to the 
immaterial attainments,

478
00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:22,131
which are based on the jhānas

479
00:31:22,131 --> 00:31:24,795
And now we have the conceit

480
00:31:24,795 --> 00:31:27,911
The conceit here is a Pali word 
is a conception

481
00:31:27,911 --> 00:31:32,826
it's not the same as the idea of 
conceit we have in English

482
00:31:32,826 --> 00:31:36,884
It's the thought or perception 
‘I am’ sometimes arises:

483
00:31:36,884 --> 00:31:40,026
I am better; I am worse; I am the same

484
00:31:40,026 --> 00:31:43,079
Now we are going to later on 
we have an example of that

485
00:31:43,079 --> 00:31:46,309
which I put in here of what this 
really means

486
00:31:46,309 --> 00:31:49,124
but we will come on to that later.

487
00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:54,983
Restlessness and deluded 
thoughts or perceptions.

488
00:31:54,983 --> 00:31:57,813
Your views have been straightened out

489
00:31:57,813 --> 00:32:03,496
These are thoughts of perception 
which are basically old habits

490
00:32:03,496 --> 00:32:08,460
based on the views you had had 
a long time ago.

491
00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:11,118
Those who cut off the five higher fetters

492
00:32:11,118 --> 00:32:15,579
have no more ties binding 
them to existence.

493
00:32:15,579 --> 00:32:18,840
These are the Arahants, 
who have destroyed all defilements

494
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,546
and are completely liberated 
through final knowledge.

495
00:32:23,546 --> 00:32:27,737
Now I put this one in because 
having said attachment to Jhāna is bad

496
00:32:27,737 --> 00:32:34,432
only in one particular context; you know 
stops you going from that last step

497
00:32:34,432 --> 00:32:37,366
from being a non-returner to 
full enlightenment; but

498
00:32:37,366 --> 00:32:40,792
it also has its advantages.

499
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:44,497
And this is the Jhāna anāgāmī 
Jhānānāgāmī

500
00:32:44,497 --> 00:32:47,119
This is; three is a shortcut

501
00:32:47,119 --> 00:32:52,427
Between being a stream-winner and 
going to Enlightenment

502
00:32:52,427 --> 00:32:55,175
and this is it.

503
00:32:55,175 --> 00:32:57,827
This is from the Anguttara

504
00:32:57,827 --> 00:33:01,647
“Just as, in the autumn, 
when the sky is clear and cloudless,

505
00:33:01,647 --> 00:33:03,702
the sun, ascending in the sky,

506
00:33:03,702 --> 00:33:07,948
dispels all darkness from space as 
it shines and beams and radiates,

507
00:33:07,948 --> 00:33:12,828
so too, when the dust-free, 
stainless Dhamma-eye arises in you,

508
00:33:12,828 --> 00:33:15,590
then, with the arising of vision, 
you abandon three fetters

509
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:19,225
the view of a permanent essence, 
doubt, and wrong grasp of

510
00:33:19,225 --> 00:33:21,053
behaviour and observances.

511
00:33:21,053 --> 00:33:23,924
There the Buddha being a bit poetic

512
00:33:23,924 --> 00:33:29,366
Afterwards, when you restrain two states, 
wanting and aversion,

513
00:33:29,366 --> 00:33:34,705
then, totally secluded from the 
five senses,

514
00:33:34,705 --> 00:33:36,995
secluded from the five hindrances,

515
00:33:36,995 --> 00:33:39,839
you enter and dwell for a while 
in the first jhāna,

516
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:43,420
which consists of rapture and pleasure 
born of freedom from the five senses,

517
00:33:43,420 --> 00:33:47,600
accompanied by movements of the 
mind onto the bliss and holding the bliss.

518
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,095
that's you enter First Jhana

519
00:33:50,095 --> 00:33:51,902
This is the important part

520
00:33:51,902 --> 00:33:56,451
If you should pass away while 
thus in Jhāna,

521
00:33:56,451 --> 00:34:02,390
there’s no fetter bound by which 
you might ever return to this world.

522
00:34:02,390 --> 00:34:04,651
Bhikkhu Bodhi's commentary

523
00:34:04,651 --> 00:34:08,586
This phrase normally denotes 
the attainment of non-returning.

524
00:34:08,586 --> 00:34:11,287
The commentary, however, 
identifies this disciple

525
00:34:11,287 --> 00:34:16,002
as a “Jhāna non-returner” 
a Jhānānāgāmī.

526
00:34:16,002 --> 00:34:20,981
that's, a stream-enterer or 
once-returner who also attains Jhāna.

527
00:34:20,981 --> 00:34:24,337
Though such a practitioner 
has not yet eliminated the two fetters

528
00:34:24,337 --> 00:34:26,089
of sensual desire and aversion,

529
00:34:26,089 --> 00:34:31,203
by attaining Jhāna he or she is 
bound to be reborn in the Jhāna realm

530
00:34:31,203 --> 00:34:33,629
and attain Nibbāna there,

531
00:34:33,629 --> 00:34:38,418
without taking another 
rebirth in the sense sphere.

532
00:34:38,418 --> 00:34:43,483
So in other words if you are a 
stream-winner and you get into the Jhanas

533
00:34:43,483 --> 00:34:48,754
There is another Sutta which says 
just do Jhanas often or you die in a Jhana

534
00:34:48,754 --> 00:34:53,033
then you get promoted to be 
Anāgāmī

535
00:34:53,033 --> 00:34:57,839
In that Jhana Realm which you 
continue on after your death

536
00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:01,997
then when that fades away 
so do you.

537
00:35:01,997 --> 00:35:06,293
That's it. You Nibbāna from the 
Jhana realm

538
00:35:06,293 --> 00:35:08,716
That's is pretty cool.

539
00:35:08,716 --> 00:35:13,065
So it makes us 
once you get to see non-self

540
00:35:13,065 --> 00:35:14,934
and do lots of Jhana

541
00:35:14,934 --> 00:35:17,815
then basically that's it.

542
00:35:17,815 --> 00:35:22,648
You die ..... how many aeons in the 
Jhana realms

543
00:35:22,648 --> 00:35:23,776
blissing out

544
00:35:23,776 --> 00:35:26,400
and then when it fades away 
you fade away too.

545
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,375
Nibbāna from there. 
The Jhānānāgāmī.

546
00:35:31,375 --> 00:35:33,793
Why that happens again is 
because

547
00:35:33,793 --> 00:35:36,471
there is nothing to come 
back to

548
00:35:36,471 --> 00:35:39,780
No ties, you are letting go so much

549
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:46,791
when the Jhana disappears 
so do you.

550
00:35:46,791 --> 00:35:51,033
And now, what it feels like to be 
a non-returner

551
00:35:51,033 --> 00:35:53,097
They have seen there is no self

552
00:35:53,097 --> 00:35:55,483
But it's said on the top here

553
00:35:55,483 --> 00:35:59,242
that they still have this conceit 
sometimes,

554
00:35:59,242 --> 00:36:03,243
'I am' based on old habitual 
thoughts or perceptions

555
00:36:03,595 --> 00:36:07,427
Fortunately there is a nice Sutta

556
00:36:07,427 --> 00:36:13,356
of this monk called Khemaka 
who was an ānāgāmī a non-returner

557
00:36:13,356 --> 00:36:16,930
and monks asked him basically 
what it's like to be a non-returner

558
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:19,938
Why you got so far why can't 
you go the last step

559
00:36:19,938 --> 00:36:22,175
to become fully-enlightened

560
00:36:22,175 --> 00:36:26,198
And this is what the simile the 
Buddha uses

561
00:36:26,198 --> 00:36:31,249
which I did adapt but basically 
keeping the essence

562
00:36:31,249 --> 00:36:34,812
this is called the scent of 
I am

563
00:36:34,812 --> 00:36:37,907
The scent of I am

564
00:36:37,907 --> 00:36:43,542
So this is the monks talking to 
one of their friends, Venerable Khamaka

565
00:36:43,542 --> 00:36:48,179
“Friend Khemaka, when 
you speak of this ‘I am’ …

566
00:36:48,179 --> 00:36:52,585
what is it that you speak of as ‘I am’?”

567
00:36:52,585 --> 00:36:56,908
He replies: “Friends, 
I do not speak of form (that's rupa) as ‘I am,’

568
00:36:56,908 --> 00:37:01,258
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ apart from form.

569
00:37:01,258 --> 00:37:04,475
I do not speak of experience (vedanā) 
as ‘I am’ …

570
00:37:04,475 --> 00:37:07,669
nor of perception as ‘I am’ … 
nor of volition as ‘I am’ …

571
00:37:07,669 --> 00:37:09,942
nor of consciousnesses as ‘I am,’

572
00:37:09,942 --> 00:37:13,678
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ 
apart from consciousnesses.

573
00:37:13,678 --> 00:37:19,017
Not in the five Khandas, 
not outside of them

574
00:37:19,017 --> 00:37:23,618
Friends, although the thought ‘I am’ 
has not yet vanished in me

575
00:37:23,618 --> 00:37:26,714
in relation to these 
five components of existence,

576
00:37:26,714 --> 00:37:32,301
still I do not regard anything 
among them as ‘This I am.’

577
00:37:32,301 --> 00:37:34,452
And he gives a simile

578
00:37:34,452 --> 00:37:38,818
“Suppose, friends, 
there is a scent of a lotus.

579
00:37:38,818 --> 00:37:42,065
Would you be speaking rightly 
if you were to say,

580
00:37:42,065 --> 00:37:45,473
‘the scent belongs to the petals,’ 
or ‘the scent belongs to the stalk,’

581
00:37:45,473 --> 00:37:47,485
or ‘the scent belongs to the pistils’?”

582
00:37:47,485 --> 00:37:48,313
“No.”

583
00:37:48,313 --> 00:37:51,642
“And how, friends, should you answer 
if you were to answer rightly?”

584
00:37:51,642 --> 00:37:54,309
“You should answer: 
‘The scent belongs to the flower.’

585
00:37:54,309 --> 00:37:57,983
“So too, friends, 
I do not speak of form as ‘I am,’

586
00:37:57,983 --> 00:38:01,239
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ apart from form.

587
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:06,009
I do not speak of experience, perception, 
will or consciousnesses as "I am"

588
00:38:06,009 --> 00:38:09,713
nor do I speak of ‘I am’ 
apart from consciousnesses.

589
00:38:09,713 --> 00:38:13,481
Friends, although the thought 
‘I am’ has not yet vanished in me

590
00:38:13,481 --> 00:38:15,826
in relation to these five 
components of existence,

591
00:38:15,826 --> 00:38:20,824
still I do not regard anything 
among them as ‘This I am.’

592
00:38:20,824 --> 00:38:27,416
"Friends... (got another simile which is
better but down below)

593
00:38:27,416 --> 00:38:32,238
“Friends, even though a noble disciple 
has abandoned the five basic fetters,

594
00:38:32,238 --> 00:38:36,240
still, in relation to the five 
components of existence, the Khandas

595
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:42,780
there lingers in them 
a residual thought ‘I am,’

596
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:48,085
a desire ‘I am,’ 
an underlying tendency ‘I am’

597
00:38:48,085 --> 00:38:51,515
that has not yet been uprooted.

598
00:38:51,515 --> 00:38:57,819
“Sometime later they grow contemplating 
dependency on causes

599
00:38:57,819 --> 00:39:00,051
of the five components of existence--

600
00:39:00,051 --> 00:39:04,986
‘Such is form (body), such its origin, 
such its passing away;

601
00:39:04,986 --> 00:39:07,787
such is experience, 
such is perception

602
00:39:07,787 --> 00:39:11,557
such is will 
such are the six consciousnesses

603
00:39:11,557 --> 00:39:15,265
such their origin, 
such is their passing away.

604
00:39:15,295 --> 00:39:21,346
As they dwell contemplating dependency on
causes of the five components of existence,

605
00:39:21,346 --> 00:39:25,151
the residual thought ‘I am,’ 
the desire ‘I am,’

606
00:39:25,151 --> 00:39:27,288
the underlying tendency ‘I am’

607
00:39:27,288 --> 00:39:31,671
that had not yet been uprooted—
this comes to be uprooted.

608
00:39:31,671 --> 00:39:35,983
And this is the killer simile 
which I adapted

609
00:39:35,983 --> 00:39:40,010
“Suppose you washed a cloth 
in a washing machine,

610
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:43,992
rinsed, and spun it, 
and then put it in a drier.

611
00:39:43,992 --> 00:39:46,759
Although that cloth would be clean,

612
00:39:46,759 --> 00:39:51,599
still it might retain the residual 
smell of the soap powder.

613
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,940
Then you would hang it 
out in the sun to air, and

614
00:39:54,940 --> 00:40:00,511
after a while, the residual smell 
of the soap powder would vanish.”

615
00:40:00,511 --> 00:40:02,820
In the original simile 
if you read if

616
00:40:02,820 --> 00:40:06,770
the washer women, 
take it to the river

617
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:10,921
and they bang it 
with lye or cow dung

618
00:40:10,921 --> 00:40:13,055
That's how they used to wash 
in those days

619
00:40:13,055 --> 00:40:15,843
and after washing it, it will still 
have the smell of the lye

620
00:40:15,843 --> 00:40:17,489
or the cow dung

621
00:40:17,489 --> 00:40:20,455
With a simile like that 
what happens is people just

622
00:40:20,455 --> 00:40:22,597
the whole meaning of the simile

623
00:40:22,597 --> 00:40:28,150
is overwhelmed by the weird way
people used to wash cloths in those days.

624
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:29,894
This is how we are washing 
these days.

625
00:40:29,894 --> 00:40:32,210
and still keeps the essence of the simile

626
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:34,762
You all have done that, washing 
something in the washing machine

627
00:40:34,762 --> 00:40:37,354
and after it got the smell
of the soap powder

628
00:40:37,354 --> 00:40:39,702
That's like you have washed away 
most of the defilements

629
00:40:39,702 --> 00:40:42,558
still got the smell of 
'I am' there

630
00:40:42,558 --> 00:40:45,918
That's the non-returner

631
00:40:45,918 --> 00:40:49,571
“So too, friends, even though a noble 
disciple has abandoned

632
00:40:49,571 --> 00:40:51,102
the five lower fetters, 
washed clean

633
00:40:51,102 --> 00:40:56,072
still, in relation to the five Khandas 
there lingers in them

634
00:40:56,072 --> 00:40:59,982
a residual thought ‘I am, 
the desire ‘I am,’

635
00:40:59,982 --> 00:41:01,923
an underlying 
tendency ‘I am’

636
00:41:01,923 --> 00:41:04,654
that has not yet been uprooted.

637
00:41:04,654 --> 00:41:08,210
But as you dwell contemplating 
dependency on causes

638
00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:10,317
of the five components of existence,

639
00:41:10,317 --> 00:41:13,194
the residual thought ‘I am,
’ the desire ‘I am,’

640
00:41:13,194 --> 00:41:17,460
the underlying tendency to ‘I am’ 
that had not yet been uprooted

641
00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:21,717
this comes to be uprooted.

642
00:41:21,717 --> 00:41:27,981
So what had happened there 
is the habitual tendencies

643
00:41:27,981 --> 00:41:30,187
The other simile which I was 
talking about

644
00:41:30,187 --> 00:41:31,726
because I have seen this 
many times

645
00:41:31,726 --> 00:41:34,489
people say smokers 
smoke cigarettes

646
00:41:34,489 --> 00:41:38,711
they know it's bad for your health 
they got right view of the

647
00:41:38,711 --> 00:41:40,420
danger of cigarettes

648
00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:43,194
But they can't really get rid of
it yet

649
00:41:43,317 --> 00:41:46,041
so it takes them awhile

650
00:41:46,041 --> 00:41:53,418
until the view actually starts to 
penetrate into their behaviour

651
00:41:53,418 --> 00:41:56,781
the way they perceive 
and think totally

652
00:41:56,781 --> 00:42:02,546
otherwise sometimes there is 
some lingering desire for cigarettes

653
00:42:02,546 --> 00:42:08,470
But after the view how dangerous and 
yucky it's to really penetrate into them

654
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:10,919
then there is no way they are going 
to take a cigarette anymore.

655
00:42:10,919 --> 00:42:13,274
They have abandoned it.

656
00:42:13,274 --> 00:42:16,036
So once you get your views straight

657
00:42:16,036 --> 00:42:17,759
you have understood something

658
00:42:17,759 --> 00:42:19,986
Alcohol is bad for you or 
whatever

659
00:42:19,986 --> 00:42:23,522
it doesn't mean straight away you 
are going to give up sort-of the

660
00:42:23,522 --> 00:42:24,980
bad habits.

661
00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:30,221
they linger awhile until the 
new view, the correct view becomes

662
00:42:30,221 --> 00:42:32,490
so strong, it actually washes away

663
00:42:32,490 --> 00:42:40,781
even the old sense or the smell 
of the old views.

664
00:42:40,781 --> 00:42:42,746
the old habits.

665
00:42:42,746 --> 00:42:47,141
I hope that's clear because it's 
a very important point there.

666
00:42:47,141 --> 00:42:49,861
So I am going to pause for a moment 
to see whether there are any questions

667
00:42:49,861 --> 00:42:54,523
on what we have done so far on the 
stages of Enlightenment.

668
00:42:54,523 --> 00:42:56,740
yes

669
00:42:56,740 --> 00:43:03,967
Question--... the stream-enterer cannot be
reborn in a lower form, even if they have

670
00:43:03,967 --> 00:43:09,256
murdered somebody in a past life. Because 
they have given up the view of self

671
00:43:09,333 --> 00:43:13,333
But presumably they wouldn't kill 
anyone again.

672
00:43:13,435 --> 00:43:17,179
Ajahn--Indeed because one as a 
stream-winner

673
00:43:17,179 --> 00:43:23,047
this was a question.... who asked me this 
sometime ago ... I think it was actually

674
00:43:23,047 --> 00:43:24,296
Bhante G.

675
00:43:24,296 --> 00:43:26,440
He was trying to test me out

676
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:33,052
And he asked me; he said stream 
winner can they break the five precepts

677
00:43:33,052 --> 00:43:35,140
And the answer was Yes.

678
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:37,248
But they know straight away 
what they have done

679
00:43:37,248 --> 00:43:39,613
so they can't hide it.

680
00:43:39,613 --> 00:43:43,296
They can't sort-of just no no no 
no no no

681
00:43:43,296 --> 00:43:47,794
So they still got bad habits 
from the past

682
00:43:47,794 --> 00:43:49,217
So those bad habits from the past

683
00:43:49,217 --> 00:43:50,579
It's like you have seen something,

684
00:43:50,579 --> 00:43:55,505
you have seen that smoking or drinking 
alcohol is not good for me

685
00:43:55,505 --> 00:43:57,615
but it doesn't mean they 
have given up straight away.

686
00:43:57,615 --> 00:44:02,995
It takes a time for you to 
train your perceptions and thoughts

687
00:44:02,995 --> 00:44:08,514
Question-So it has to be that realization 
that there is no self

688
00:44:08,514 --> 00:44:13,641
that kind of drains the life 
out of any kind of misbehaviour

689
00:44:13,641 --> 00:44:16,147
Ajahn It drains the life out of it 
but like anything

690
00:44:16,147 --> 00:44:18,542
if you are draining a tank it 
takes a little while for

691
00:44:18,542 --> 00:44:20,281
all the water to come out.

692
00:44:20,281 --> 00:44:23,463
And at the very very end 
there is a little bit of water left

693
00:44:23,463 --> 00:44:27,878
So if we are cleaning a water tank 
at Bodhinyana Monastery in Serpentine

694
00:44:27,878 --> 00:44:30,381
yes that's what you have to do 
drain the first water

695
00:44:30,381 --> 00:44:34,006
takes those big water tanks sometimes 
it takes a day to drain it out.

696
00:44:34,006 --> 00:44:37,828
Then you go in there with a sponge 
to get that last little bit of water

697
00:44:37,828 --> 00:44:39,488
with the dirt in it out.

698
00:44:39,488 --> 00:44:49,523
So that's a nice simile. 
Draining it out. Good

699
00:44:49,523 --> 00:44:58,370
Question-Ajahn with the Jhānānāgāmī 
is that a person doing the all four Jhānās

700
00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:01,531
or have to be in Arupa-Jhānā
when they die

701
00:45:01,531 --> 00:45:06,773
to actually go to that Jhānā realm
rather than a Deva realm

702
00:45:06,773 --> 00:45:11,050
Ajahn-It has to be .. actually any Jhānā 
would work

703
00:45:11,050 --> 00:45:15,532
but obviously the deeper the Jhānā 
faster it would be

704
00:45:15,532 --> 00:45:18,659
the more letting go there is

705
00:45:18,659 --> 00:45:21,388
So any Jhānā. it's an really amazing thing

706
00:45:21,388 --> 00:45:23,795
once you understand what the 
Jhānās are you can say

707
00:45:23,795 --> 00:45:26,166
wow that's a very very good point.

708
00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:30,896
Because in the Jhānās; basically 
in the Jhānās there is no sense of self

709
00:45:30,896 --> 00:45:33,382
you can't actually feel or see

710
00:45:33,382 --> 00:45:35,856
you are gone

711
00:45:35,856 --> 00:45:37,871
so one of the reasons why

712
00:45:37,871 --> 00:45:40,155
I think I mentioned this to 
monks a few weeks ago

713
00:45:40,155 --> 00:45:46,345
that in history there were two 
people, two Catholic monk or a nun

714
00:45:46,379 --> 00:45:50,889
when I read that it looked like they 
have attained the first Jhānā

715
00:45:51,099 --> 00:45:54,718
That was Theresa of Avila 
who used to levitate

716
00:45:54,718 --> 00:45:56,946
and St. John on the Cross

717
00:45:56,946 --> 00:45:59,356
Just reading some of what they 
have said it's very hard

718
00:45:59,356 --> 00:46:01,659
because of the translation 
in English

719
00:46:01,659 --> 00:46:03,537
don't know what they really 
meant to say but

720
00:46:03,537 --> 00:46:06,669
there was an indication they 
may have got into the Jhānās

721
00:46:06,669 --> 00:46:09,484
But one of the reasons why 
they would get into First Jhānā

722
00:46:09,484 --> 00:46:14,344
is because of their methodology;
they believe in total surrender

723
00:46:14,344 --> 00:46:16,101
to their God.

724
00:46:16,101 --> 00:46:19,571
And that was 100% surrender 
not keeping anything back for them.

725
00:46:19,571 --> 00:46:25,853
They were surrendering their will 
their choice, they were letting-go

726
00:46:25,853 --> 00:46:29,144
because of the belief - 
God take over

727
00:46:29,144 --> 00:46:31,772
That you can see that type of 
letting go

728
00:46:31,772 --> 00:46:36,384
I can understand how that would 
get a person into the First Jhānā

729
00:46:36,384 --> 00:46:40,966
But of course the view they had
afterwards, Jhānā would not be enough

730
00:46:40,966 --> 00:46:43,243
to break through that view.

731
00:46:43,243 --> 00:46:45,769
Which they didn't have any other 
alternative for that

732
00:46:45,769 --> 00:46:49,321
but I can see just how that degree of 
letting go would go into that

733
00:46:49,321 --> 00:46:51,424
so when you are in that Jhānā state

734
00:46:51,424 --> 00:46:54,162
no self of an independent self

735
00:46:54,162 --> 00:46:58,190
They would experience that as an
union with God.

736
00:46:58,190 --> 00:46:59,793
They are gone, totally.

737
00:46:59,793 --> 00:47:02,913
So you could understand in the Jhānās
there is no sense of me left

738
00:47:02,913 --> 00:47:06,103
That's why you can't get into 
those states by doing stuff

739
00:47:06,103 --> 00:47:09,053
that's too much of an ego, 
too much of me, doing stuff

740
00:47:09,085 --> 00:47:14,188
They are literally stages of 
letting go of doing, will

741
00:47:14,198 --> 00:47:15,925
that's why they are so still.

742
00:47:15,925 --> 00:47:18,839
And the me which creates all 
that willing.

743
00:47:18,839 --> 00:47:21,519
So that's why in such a state

744
00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:24,965
Yes you haven't totally abandoned 
desire and ill will

745
00:47:24,965 --> 00:47:28,358
but you have suppressed it 
so much

746
00:47:28,358 --> 00:47:30,326
that when you come out afterwards

747
00:47:30,326 --> 00:47:36,987
basically there is nothing 
really to get you reborn.

748
00:47:36,987 --> 00:47:39,619
That makes any sense?

749
00:47:39,619 --> 00:47:43,867
Anything else?

750
00:47:43,867 --> 00:47:49,297
Question-So really because doing stuff 
really just enhances your sense of self ?

751
00:47:49,297 --> 00:47:51,470
Ajahn--correct

752
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:53,028
Question--so that's why 
it doesn't work.

753
00:47:53,028 --> 00:47:55,190
Ajahn-Exactly, Thank you

754
00:47:55,190 --> 00:48:01,350
I have been trying to bang 
at that point for 30 years

755
00:48:01,350 --> 00:48:05,859
Yes behind you

756
00:48:05,859 --> 00:48:18,896
Question-so if the mind punishes 
itself for things it has done

757
00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:22,690
you get reborn in the lower 
realms and same for the higher realms

758
00:48:22,690 --> 00:48:24,910
but what if you want to be 
reborn as a human?

759
00:48:24,910 --> 00:48:28,005
Ajahn - As a human, yeah if you 
want to be reborn as a human

760
00:48:28,005 --> 00:48:30,450
and you have enough kamma 
to be reborn as a human

761
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:32,944
that's where you end up doing

762
00:48:32,944 --> 00:48:39,978
The simile is; say you want to 
go to Bangladesh, Dhaka

763
00:48:40,133 --> 00:48:45,058
you need to have two reasons 
to end up in Bangladesh

764
00:48:45,058 --> 00:48:50,830
number one you want to go there 
number two you got the money and the visa

765
00:48:50,830 --> 00:48:53,953
if you got those two things 
then you end up there.

766
00:48:53,953 --> 00:48:56,329
If you don't want to go there

767
00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:58,868
you may have the money and the visa 
but you don't want to go there

768
00:48:58,868 --> 00:49:00,699
of course you don't end up there.

769
00:49:00,699 --> 00:49:02,871
You want to go there but you 
can't afford it

770
00:49:02,871 --> 00:49:04,539
you don't end up there.

771
00:49:04,539 --> 00:49:09,572
So the wanting and the kamic 
wherewithal

772
00:49:09,572 --> 00:49:15,589
those two come together and 
that means you get reborn there

773
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:18,085
okay

774
00:49:18,085 --> 00:49:20,267
So you got another one ok

775
00:49:20,267 --> 00:49:23,593
Questions--I suppose you have to 
delete the sense of achievement as well

776
00:49:23,593 --> 00:49:29,124
Ajahn--Exactly, these are not .
Ajahn Chah kept on saying this so many times

777
00:49:29,124 --> 00:49:33,303
we meditate to let go 
not to attain

778
00:49:33,303 --> 00:49:37,511
not achieving things but to 
abandon things

779
00:49:37,511 --> 00:49:41,802
that's why anyone who understands 
this stuff never think it's an achievement

780
00:49:41,802 --> 00:49:46,125
I am a stream-winner, look at me 
I am a stream-winner

781
00:49:46,125 --> 00:49:49,603
I am much better than you riff-raff

782
00:49:49,603 --> 00:49:54,152
that's called spiritual materialism 
which is very gross

783
00:49:54,152 --> 00:49:57,035
and know why people do that ..
because they don't really understand

784
00:49:57,035 --> 00:49:58,478
what's going on

785
00:49:58,478 --> 00:50:02,890
These are stages of letting go 
of disappearing

786
00:50:02,890 --> 00:50:08,974
Thank you Ajahn Brahmali because that book 
the Art of Disappearing which is one of my favourites

787
00:50:08,974 --> 00:50:10,578
some of my talks in there

788
00:50:10,578 --> 00:50:12,876
he chose the title

789
00:50:12,876 --> 00:50:16,698
The Art of Disappearing, I thought wow
that's a brilliant title

790
00:50:16,698 --> 00:50:21,093
because that's what meditation 
that's what the path is--disappearing

791
00:50:21,093 --> 00:50:23,099
vanishing

792
00:50:23,099 --> 00:50:27,978
that's why when I wrote the introduction 
to that preface

793
00:50:27,978 --> 00:50:29,274
I said all about there

794
00:50:29,274 --> 00:50:32,487
this is about losing things not 
about gaining things

795
00:50:32,487 --> 00:50:34,207
not attainments

796
00:50:34,207 --> 00:50:36,769
So at the very end I said 
May you all get lost!

797
00:50:36,769 --> 00:50:42,288
(Ajahn Laughs) and that was a 
compliment

798
00:50:42,288 --> 00:50:46,055
I thought that the people publishing it 
wouldn't get it

799
00:50:46,055 --> 00:50:47,208
but they got it straight away

800
00:50:47,208 --> 00:50:51,449
they said 'yeah, this is great' 
So they didn't delete it

801
00:50:51,449 --> 00:50:56,544
So that's my wish for each one of you 
May you all get lost

802
00:50:56,544 --> 00:51:02,232
May you all be losers 
Spiritual losers, not gainers

803
00:51:02,232 --> 00:51:06,080
It using words in a different way 
which makes it funny

804
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:12,069
okay so we go to 
Free from All Speculative Views

805
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:16,400
So we are still on Right View ok 
so this is why we are on these stuff

806
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,574
Then does the Buddha hold 
any speculative belief at all?

807
00:51:22,574 --> 00:51:33,311
Speculative belief is stuff like 
the aliens have you ever seen an alien

808
00:51:33,311 --> 00:51:37,041
you can speculate, 
well the universe is so big

809
00:51:37,041 --> 00:51:38,901
there must be some somewhere

810
00:51:38,901 --> 00:51:41,501
May be they are siting among us

811
00:51:41,501 --> 00:51:42,831
who knows?

812
00:51:42,831 --> 00:51:46,953
So speculative beliefs are things 
that people love to think about

813
00:51:46,953 --> 00:51:49,990
even like the origin of the universe

814
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:53,587
where it all began if it did begin 
anywhere

815
00:51:53,587 --> 00:51:55,969
speculation

816
00:51:55,969 --> 00:51:59,648
‘Speculative belief’ is something 
that the Buddha has put away.

817
00:51:59,648 --> 00:52:01,732
For the Buddha has seen this:

818
00:52:01,732 --> 00:52:05,791
Just basic five Khandas 
just focusing on message

819
00:52:05,791 --> 00:52:09,753
Such is form, such its origin, 
such its disappearance;

820
00:52:09,753 --> 00:52:13,050
such is experience, its origin, 
its disappearance;

821
00:52:13,050 --> 00:52:16,702
such is perception, its origin, 
its disappearance;

822
00:52:16,702 --> 00:52:19,752
such is will, its origin, 
its disappearance;

823
00:52:19,752 --> 00:52:23,932
such are the consciousnesses, 
such their origin, such their disappearance.

824
00:52:23,932 --> 00:52:25,947
It's just talking about the 
five Khandas

825
00:52:25,947 --> 00:52:28,820
The fact that none of them are 
permanent

826
00:52:28,820 --> 00:52:31,084
they arise because of other 
things

827
00:52:31,084 --> 00:52:34,299
and when other things vanish 
they all vanish

828
00:52:34,299 --> 00:52:37,607
perception, experience, 
consciousness every one of them

829
00:52:37,607 --> 00:52:42,888
is impermanent, it arises 
and totally disappears for a while

830
00:52:42,888 --> 00:52:46,440
Therefore, I say, with the destruction, 
fading away, cessation,

831
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:53,006
giving up, relinquishing of all 
conceptual proliferations,

832
00:52:53,006 --> 00:52:55,875
it's one of the great words 
papañca

833
00:52:55,875 --> 00:52:58,510
conceptual proliferations

834
00:52:58,510 --> 00:53:01,999
once we get an idea it 
just takes off

835
00:53:01,999 --> 00:53:05,135
like some weeds in your 
garden,

836
00:53:05,135 --> 00:53:08,822
just like some virus in your
body

837
00:53:08,822 --> 00:53:11,423
or some malware in your 
computer

838
00:53:11,423 --> 00:53:15,068
It affects more and more 
it expands

839
00:53:15,068 --> 00:53:19,230
This is what is called 
conceptual proliferation

840
00:53:19,230 --> 00:53:22,765
or maybe you should call 
conceptual viruses

841
00:53:22,765 --> 00:53:24,658
to show how they affect

842
00:53:24,658 --> 00:53:26,266
keep going and going

843
00:53:26,266 --> 00:53:31,284
That's why we are thinking
there is no end to thinking

844
00:53:31,284 --> 00:53:33,068
No end to philosophizing

845
00:53:33,068 --> 00:53:35,304
this conceptual proliferation

846
00:53:35,304 --> 00:53:38,471
Put that away, just seeing

847
00:53:38,471 --> 00:53:40,645
Not thinking about this and 
working all out

848
00:53:40,645 --> 00:53:44,209
but seeing the basic five 
components of existence

849
00:53:44,209 --> 00:53:47,825
Seeing there is nothing there

850
00:53:47,825 --> 00:53:53,884
So with destruction, fading away 
cessation, giving up and relinquishing

851
00:53:53,884 --> 00:53:56,544
of all conceptual proliferation

852
00:53:56,544 --> 00:54:02,390
all philosophizing 
all I-making, we make ourselves

853
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:04,131
make this idea of a self

854
00:54:04,131 --> 00:54:09,625
mine-making, we construct the 
idea of possession

855
00:54:09,625 --> 00:54:15,156
and the underlying tendency 
to assuming a permanent essence,

856
00:54:15,156 --> 00:54:17,905
it's an underlying tendency

857
00:54:17,905 --> 00:54:20,389
we have been doing 
this for such a long time

858
00:54:20,389 --> 00:54:21,982
it's just a habit

859
00:54:21,982 --> 00:54:25,863
try and make something 
out of nothing

860
00:54:25,863 --> 00:54:30,661
that somewhere, some place 
there is a me.

861
00:54:30,661 --> 00:54:37,463
the Buddha is liberated through 
exhausting the fuel that drives rebirth.

862
00:54:37,463 --> 00:54:41,668
I like that translation 
The fuel that drives rebirth

863
00:54:41,668 --> 00:54:45,189
Your car has not got no more petrol 
in its engine anymore

864
00:54:45,189 --> 00:54:47,215
it can't move.

865
00:54:47,215 --> 00:54:49,146
Can't get to rebirth anymore

866
00:54:49,146 --> 00:54:54,423
And that fuel is the view that 
there is some person in there

867
00:54:54,423 --> 00:55:00,178
some essence, some mind which is 
not sort-of impermanent

868
00:55:00,178 --> 00:55:05,487
something; some soul, some ground of 
all beings, something

869
00:55:05,487 --> 00:55:09,175
that it becomes a fuel which 
makes you get rebirth, reborn

870
00:55:09,175 --> 00:55:11,583
when you exhaust all that fuel

871
00:55:11,583 --> 00:55:16,085
then there is no way you can 
make an I or a mine anymore

872
00:55:16,085 --> 00:55:17,558
That's why the Buddha

873
00:55:17,558 --> 00:55:23,524
No speculative views anymore 
you have seen through all of this.

874
00:55:23,524 --> 00:55:28,025
The Three Characteristics of Existence

875
00:55:28,025 --> 00:55:32,662
Whether Buddhas arise or not, 
there persists that law,

876
00:55:32,662 --> 00:55:35,592
that stable Dhamma, 
that fixed course of the Dhamma:

877
00:55:35,627 --> 00:55:40,157
All phenomena that arise 
from a cause are impermanent,

878
00:55:40,268 --> 00:55:44,337
suffering and not a 
permanent essence.

879
00:55:44,337 --> 00:55:46,718
All phenomena that arise 
from a cause are impermanent,

880
00:55:46,718 --> 00:55:48,519
In other words; 
they arise from a cause

881
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:51,278
and they must be able to disappear

882
00:55:51,278 --> 00:55:53,309
and they are suffering, and 
not a permanent essence

883
00:55:53,309 --> 00:55:55,216
The Buddha awakens to this 
and breaks through to it,

884
00:55:55,216 --> 00:55:59,120
and then explains it, 
teaches it, proclaims it,

885
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,532
and establish it, discloses it, 
analyses it, and elucidates it.

886
00:56:03,532 --> 00:56:06,628
In other words that's actually Nicca

887
00:56:06,628 --> 00:56:09,104
that's not anicca, that 
is niccha.

888
00:56:09,104 --> 00:56:11,292
that law persists

889
00:56:11,292 --> 00:56:13,240
And what is it that the wise 
in the world

890
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:14,944
agree upon as not existing,

891
00:56:14,944 --> 00:56:16,988
of which I too say that 
it does not exist?

892
00:56:16,988 --> 00:56:24,711
any form (body) that's permanent, 
stable, and eternal, not subject to change

893
00:56:24,711 --> 00:56:28,301
this the wise in the world 
agree upon as not existing,

894
00:56:28,301 --> 00:56:30,626
and I too say that it does not exist.

895
00:56:30,626 --> 00:56:34,771
Any experience, Perception, Volition, 
any type of consciousness

896
00:56:34,771 --> 00:56:39,233
that's permanent, stable, and eternal, 
not subject to change:

897
00:56:39,233 --> 00:56:41,851
this the wise in the world 
agree upon as not existing,

898
00:56:41,851 --> 00:56:45,584
and I too say that it does not exist.

899
00:56:45,584 --> 00:56:50,115
it's impossible and inconceivable 
said the Buddha

900
00:56:50,115 --> 00:56:54,382
that a person who is enlightened 
or even on the path to being enlightenment

901
00:56:54,382 --> 00:56:59,364
could consider any phenomena 
that arises from a cause as permanent,

902
00:56:59,364 --> 00:57:03,554
as pleasurable and as a soul—
there is no such possibility.

903
00:57:03,554 --> 00:57:07,553
But there is a possibility that an
unenlightened worldling might

904
00:57:07,553 --> 00:57:10,234
consider some phenomena that 
arise from a cause as permanent,

905
00:57:10,234 --> 00:57:14,162
as pleasurable and as a soul—
there is such a possibility.

906
00:57:14,162 --> 00:57:19,888
This is where we make a soul 
an original being, a ground of all being

907
00:57:19,888 --> 00:57:22,128
an essence; anything.

908
00:57:22,128 --> 00:57:25,125
it's a tendency of human 
beings to do that

909
00:57:25,125 --> 00:57:31,813
to find an ultimate 
retirement home for you.

910
00:57:31,813 --> 00:57:36,836
Therefore any kind of form whatsoever

911
00:57:36,836 --> 00:57:44,541
any kind of experience whatsoever 
any kind of perception whatsoever

912
00:57:44,541 --> 00:57:50,339
any kind of will whatsoever 
any kind of consciousness or Citta

913
00:57:50,339 --> 00:57:55,696
or mind whatsoever; 
those three are synonyms

914
00:57:55,696 --> 00:58:03,253
whether past, future or present 
once own or others, gross or subtle

915
00:58:03,253 --> 00:58:08,576
inferior or superior; far or near 
all forms, all experiences,

916
00:58:08,576 --> 00:58:11,679
all perceptions, all will 
all mind

917
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:14,436
should be seen as it really 
is with correct wisdom thus

918
00:58:14,436 --> 00:58:25,559
‘This is not mine, this I am not, 
this is not my permanent essence.

919
00:58:25,559 --> 00:58:29,299
And now one of my 
favourite quotes,

920
00:58:29,299 --> 00:58:32,371
This is, so sure this is not what the 
Buddha said

921
00:58:32,371 --> 00:58:34,983
we put it in here anyway, 
because it's really cool

922
00:58:34,983 --> 00:58:38,003
This is very famous from 
the Visuddhimagga

923
00:58:38,003 --> 00:58:49,900
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found.
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there.

924
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:57,452
If you understand this, that's where 
you don't need to have any punishment

925
00:58:57,452 --> 00:59:01,413
The deed is but not the doer.

926
00:59:01,413 --> 00:59:06,931
Nibbāna is, but not a person who enters it.

927
00:59:06,931 --> 00:59:14,922
Not a being, not a mind, not you 
Nibbāna everything gone

928
00:59:14,922 --> 00:59:21,623
And last 
The path is, but no traveller on it's seen

929
00:59:21,623 --> 00:59:27,673
In other words if you travel the 
Eightfold Path you get nowhere

930
00:59:27,673 --> 00:59:30,056
you have to disappear

931
00:59:30,056 --> 00:59:35,555
and then the path becomes as wide 
as a 20 lane highway

932
00:59:35,555 --> 00:59:38,788
even wider, you can't miss it

933
00:59:38,788 --> 00:59:41,849
but when you are travelling that path

934
00:59:41,849 --> 00:59:44,787
when you are doing the meditation

935
00:59:44,787 --> 00:59:52,144
you are doing, sort-of whatever 
then the path disappears

936
00:59:52,144 --> 00:59:58,305
The path is, but no traveller on it is seen.

937
00:59:58,305 --> 01:00:02,913
Nibbāna is but you don't 
attain it, you don't enter, you can't

938
01:00:02,913 --> 01:00:06,033
You have to disappear and vanish

939
01:00:06,511 --> 01:00:14,210
And the more you vanish, 
the closer you get

940
01:00:14,210 --> 01:00:15,404
I love that

941
01:00:15,404 --> 01:00:22,914
Anyway 
Any questions?

942
01:00:22,914 --> 01:00:26,886
Yes.

943
01:00:26,886 --> 01:00:39,544
Question: If they have no self, they don't 
commit themselves to any punishment

944
01:00:39,544 --> 01:00:41,469
for what they do.

945
01:00:41,469 --> 01:00:49,886
But in the case of Sotāpanna killing 
another person

946
01:00:49,886 --> 01:00:54,039
regardless of whether they create 
the hell or not,

947
01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:56,831
they still got that Kamma to receive 
Aren't they?

948
01:00:56,831 --> 01:01:00,320
Ajahn- Ah..have they?

949
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,188
They got some Kamma there

950
01:01:02,188 --> 01:01:05,558
You know a stream-winner or a 
once returner or something

951
01:01:05,558 --> 01:01:08,002
kills somebody they go to jail.

952
01:01:08,002 --> 01:01:12,808
Yes you can't use it as a legal 
defense in Australia that it

953
01:01:12,808 --> 01:01:17,245
says in the suttas that such 
stream-winners are not subject to

954
01:01:17,245 --> 01:01:19,336
such punishments.

955
01:01:19,336 --> 01:01:25,004
That doesn't work in the Jury trial 
or judge trial.

956
01:01:25,004 --> 01:01:29,387
But no, there is some consequences 
there but those consequences

957
01:01:29,387 --> 01:01:34,069
don't arise in a future life.

958
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:38,348
Angulimala apparently people 
threw stones at him

959
01:01:38,348 --> 01:01:40,008
and scolded him

960
01:01:40,008 --> 01:01:45,375
So he did get some suffering 
as a result of what he did

961
01:01:45,375 --> 01:01:50,543
but no future life suffering.

962
01:01:50,543 --> 01:01:55,917
So you are not punishing yourself 
other people punish you. But not you.

963
01:01:56,204 --> 01:01:59,930
Question-So could the 
Sotāpanna then reborn

964
01:01:59,930 --> 01:02:07,380
in the first life of seven or six lives;
reborn into an unsatisfactory life

965
01:02:07,380 --> 01:02:09,422
for some period of time 
for that kamma.

966
01:02:09,422 --> 01:02:13,872
Ajahn-Not at all. The reason is 
because no one sends you to

967
01:02:13,872 --> 01:02:16,135
your next destination.

968
01:02:16,135 --> 01:02:18,332
you send yourself there.

969
01:02:18,332 --> 01:02:23,171
you choose literary 
where you are going next.

970
01:02:23,171 --> 01:02:25,920
But sometimes we do make 
stupid choices.

971
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,677
because we are not wise.

972
01:02:27,677 --> 01:02:30,408
Because people feel they 
deserve to be punished

973
01:02:30,408 --> 01:02:33,261
Even in this life, ask any 
psychologist

974
01:02:33,261 --> 01:02:35,552
people who have a strong 
sense of guilt

975
01:02:35,552 --> 01:02:40,686
will actually deny themselves 
of happiness or success.

976
01:02:40,686 --> 01:02:45,107
Question-but doesn't the Kamma 
actually pull the Sotāpanna to that...

977
01:02:45,107 --> 01:02:47,164
Ajahn--No no Kamma is very personal

978
01:02:47,164 --> 01:02:50,550
you are the owner of your kamma

979
01:02:50,550 --> 01:02:53,751
in many ways

980
01:02:53,751 --> 01:03:00,073
Ok ... yes 
go on..

981
01:03:00,073 --> 01:03:03,824
Question-What exactly is 
meant by consciousnesses

982
01:03:03,824 --> 01:03:09,269
Ajahn-consciousnesses, 
I added a plural there

983
01:03:09,269 --> 01:03:13,995
because this is translating according 
to the definition

984
01:03:13,995 --> 01:03:19,986
whenever the Buddha ever uses the word viññāna 
He says there are six types of viññāna

985
01:03:19,986 --> 01:03:27,835
Site, hearing, smell, taste, touch and knowing 
the mind the citta

986
01:03:27,835 --> 01:03:31,673
these are the six consciousnesses

987
01:03:31,673 --> 01:03:37,906
I used that plural because it 
makes the word much more powerful.

988
01:03:37,906 --> 01:03:40,980
This is not me changing Buddhism,

989
01:03:40,980 --> 01:03:47,074
this is using a word and translating it 
according to its meaning.

990
01:03:47,074 --> 01:03:50,183
Six different types and that changes 
the whole ball game.

991
01:03:50,183 --> 01:03:52,060
Not consciousness because 
so often people think

992
01:03:52,060 --> 01:03:53,736
that's me, that's my essence

993
01:03:53,736 --> 01:03:58,788
there are six different types of them
which one is you? said the Buddha

994
01:03:58,788 --> 01:04:00,143
and then you find out

995
01:04:00,143 --> 01:04:03,010
when there is one there, 
the others are gone

996
01:04:03,010 --> 01:04:05,650
they arise according to causes

997
01:04:05,650 --> 01:04:11,217
consciousness, that sixth consciousness 
mind, its synonym is citta

998
01:04:11,217 --> 01:04:18,647
the mind, each one of these 
consciousnesses arises because of a cause

999
01:04:18,647 --> 01:04:21,706
when that cause disappears, 
the citta vanishes

1000
01:04:21,706 --> 01:04:24,501
that's the third Satipatṭhāna

1001
01:04:24,501 --> 01:04:27,328
to see the rise and the fall 
of the citta

1002
01:04:27,328 --> 01:04:30,461
rice and fall means, gone disappear

1003
01:04:30,461 --> 01:04:33,549
so it cannot be a permanent thing

1004
01:04:33,549 --> 01:04:37,179
and what I just read out here 
all types of consciousnesses

1005
01:04:37,179 --> 01:04:40,198
which includes all types of citta

1006
01:04:40,198 --> 01:04:45,542
should be seen, past, future or present 
once own or others, gross or subtle

1007
01:04:45,542 --> 01:04:48,678
inferior or superior, far or near

1008
01:04:48,678 --> 01:04:53,633
all consciousnesses which includes 
all mind, all citta

1009
01:04:53,633 --> 01:04:59,710
should be seen as it truly is 
not me, not mine, not a self.

1010
01:04:59,710 --> 01:05:06,490
that's just the requirement for 
being an Ariya, for being a stream-winner

1011
01:05:06,490 --> 01:05:11,253
without that you are not a 
stream-winner

1012
01:05:11,258 --> 01:05:19,831
Question-Sorry Ajahn because John 
was saying, doesn't Kamma cause a self

1013
01:05:19,831 --> 01:05:24,630
and it just occurs to me that the 
self, the sense of self is a

1014
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:28,377
bit like a black hole exerting 
huge power

1015
01:05:28,377 --> 01:05:32,022
and it's creating everything 
including hell realms and

1016
01:05:32,022 --> 01:05:33,791
everything you can think of

1017
01:05:33,791 --> 01:05:37,020
and without a self everything 
just melts away,

1018
01:05:37,020 --> 01:05:38,960
Isn't that an attraction?

1019
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,250
Ajahn-yes indeed, that's the 
whole point of this

1020
01:05:42,250 --> 01:05:44,263
to have you melt away

1021
01:05:44,263 --> 01:05:48,662
the whole point of this Sue
is to get rid of you

1022
01:05:48,662 --> 01:05:52,289
Get rid of Sue, the 
sense of self, the sense of me

1023
01:05:52,289 --> 01:05:55,731
it's to lose things not to
gain things

1024
01:05:55,731 --> 01:06:00,698
not to enhance yourself 
by being called a saint,

1025
01:06:00,698 --> 01:06:04,464
just look how great I am

1026
01:06:04,464 --> 01:06:09,381
okay over there

1027
01:06:09,381 --> 01:06:16,315
Question-what is being reborn? 
is that a some form of energy that's being

1028
01:06:16,315 --> 01:06:18,852
discharged into the air at the time of

1029
01:06:18,852 --> 01:06:25,184
Ajahn--no it's not energy, there is nothing 
continuing from one moment to another

1030
01:06:25,184 --> 01:06:27,938
it's cause and effect.

1031
01:06:27,938 --> 01:06:32,061
We are going to go into that in a few 
moments because ... I was just scrolling down

1032
01:06:32,061 --> 01:06:35,104
we got dependent origination coming 
soon which is how the Buddha would

1033
01:06:35,104 --> 01:06:36,909
answer your question.

1034
01:06:36,909 --> 01:06:41,484
But we would just go on a bit further 
here because time is running out

1035
01:06:41,484 --> 01:06:48,628
okay what do we got here,

1036
01:06:48,648 --> 01:06:55,178
Oh this is Yamaka
Sutta Nipata 44 after the 'traveller on it's seen...'

1037
01:06:55,749 --> 01:07:04,846
it is those who do not understand 
form as it really is …

1038
01:07:04,846 --> 01:07:09,726
who do not know and see its origin, 
its cessation,

1039
01:07:09,807 --> 01:07:11,943
and the way leading to its 
cessation

1040
01:07:11,943 --> 01:07:16,475
that think: ‘An Enlightened One (Arahant) 
exists after death,

1041
01:07:16,475 --> 01:07:18,180
or does not exist after death,

1042
01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:20,493
or both exists and 
does not exist after death,

1043
01:07:20,493 --> 01:07:23,793
or neither exists nor 
does not exist after death.’’

1044
01:07:23,793 --> 01:07:26,692
It's those who do not see experience, 
as it really is

1045
01:07:26,692 --> 01:07:29,276
who do not know and see perception, 
as it really is

1046
01:07:29,276 --> 01:07:33,123
Who do not know and see will
as it really is

1047
01:07:33,123 --> 01:07:36,764
who do not know and see the 
consciousnesses including mind,

1048
01:07:36,764 --> 01:07:38,896
including citta as they really are

1049
01:07:38,896 --> 01:07:41,126
and do not know and see their origin

1050
01:07:41,126 --> 01:07:44,441
their cessation, and the way 
leading to their cessation,

1051
01:07:44,441 --> 01:07:47,997
These are the people who think 
An Arahant or an Enlightened one

1052
01:07:47,997 --> 01:07:51,928
exists after death, 
or does not exist after death

1053
01:07:51,928 --> 01:07:53,986
or both exists and does not 
exist after death,

1054
01:07:53,986 --> 01:07:59,997
or neither exists nor does not 
exist after death.

1055
01:07:59,997 --> 01:08:01,706
This is one of the questions

1056
01:08:01,706 --> 01:08:03,991
what happens to an Arahant 
after they die

1057
01:08:03,991 --> 01:08:07,307
And this is the beginning of 
one of the best answers

1058
01:08:07,307 --> 01:08:09,208
clearest answers.

1059
01:08:09,208 --> 01:08:12,561
One who knows and sees the 
five components of existence

1060
01:08:12,561 --> 01:08:14,964
the five khandas as they really are

1061
01:08:14,964 --> 01:08:17,915
who knows and sees where they 
come from, their origin

1062
01:08:17,915 --> 01:08:19,189
according to causes

1063
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:20,291
their cessation

1064
01:08:20,291 --> 01:08:22,989
causes stop, 
these things vanish

1065
01:08:22,989 --> 01:08:24,617
and the way leading to 
their cessation

1066
01:08:24,617 --> 01:08:28,791
they do not think 
either of these possibilities

1067
01:08:28,791 --> 01:08:30,116
They don't even think

1068
01:08:30,116 --> 01:08:32,660
An Enlightened One exists 
after death or does not exist after death

1069
01:08:32,660 --> 01:08:35,543
or both exists and does not exist 
after death,

1070
01:08:35,543 --> 01:08:39,869
or neither exists nor 
does not exist after death.

1071
01:08:39,869 --> 01:08:43,501
And this is a really beautiful Sutta

1072
01:08:43,501 --> 01:08:47,673
What do you think; this is in the Saṃyutta Nikāya; 
the Khandha Saṃyutta

1073
01:08:47,673 --> 01:08:51,725
“What do you think, Yamaka”, asks Sariputta,

1074
01:08:51,725 --> 01:08:56,470
“Do you regard the body, experience, 
perception, will or consciousnesses

1075
01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:58,850
as an Enlightened One?”

1076
01:08:58,850 --> 01:09:00,235
No, Venerable.

1077
01:09:00,235 --> 01:09:05,582
Do you regard an Enlightened One 
as in the body, as in experience,

1078
01:09:05,582 --> 01:09:10,051
as in perception, as in will or 
as in consciousness

1079
01:09:10,051 --> 01:09:12,846
somehow contained in 
these five khandas

1080
01:09:12,846 --> 01:09:14,430
No Venerable.

1081
01:09:14,430 --> 01:09:19,015
Do you regard an Enlightened One 
as apart from the body, something separate

1082
01:09:19,015 --> 01:09:21,664
as apart from experience, 
as apart from perception

1083
01:09:21,664 --> 01:09:25,722
as apart from will 
as apart from consciousnesses

1084
01:09:25,722 --> 01:09:28,052
like apart from the mind

1085
01:09:28,052 --> 01:09:30,493
apart from the five khandas

1086
01:09:30,493 --> 01:09:34,319
Is the Enlightened One 
something separate from the five khandas?

1087
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:36,383
No Venerable.

1088
01:09:36,383 --> 01:09:40,561
Do you regard the body, experience, perception, 
will and consciousness, all taken together

1089
01:09:40,561 --> 01:09:42,322
as an Enlightened One

1090
01:09:42,322 --> 01:09:44,160
No Venerable

1091
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,022
Do you take an Enlightened One 
as one who is without a body

1092
01:09:47,022 --> 01:09:51,616
without experience, without perception 
without a will, without any consciousnesses

1093
01:09:51,616 --> 01:09:53,217
No Venerable

1094
01:09:53,217 --> 01:10:00,238
But, Yamaka, when an Enlightened One 
specially the Buddha, right in front of you

1095
01:10:00,238 --> 01:10:02,434
when an Enlightened One 
is not apprehended by you

1096
01:10:02,434 --> 01:10:07,014
as real and actual here 
in this very life

1097
01:10:07,014 --> 01:10:11,816
is it fitting for you to declare that an 
Enlightened One is annihilated and perishes

1098
01:10:11,816 --> 01:10:15,494
with the break-up of the body 
and does not exist after death?

1099
01:10:15,494 --> 01:10:19,264
It's not annihilated there is 
nothing here now.

1100
01:10:19,264 --> 01:10:22,843
just a process, here and now

1101
01:10:22,843 --> 01:10:25,124
so you can't see anything there.

1102
01:10:25,124 --> 01:10:29,789
any essence, 
any enlightened essence there.

1103
01:10:29,789 --> 01:10:33,074
either as any one of those 
five khandas

1104
01:10:33,074 --> 01:10:37,075
as in those five khandas 
as apart from those five khandas

1105
01:10:37,075 --> 01:10:41,162
as five khandas taken together

1106
01:10:41,162 --> 01:10:47,264
So, Yamaka, if they were to ask you 
what happens to an Enlightened One

1107
01:10:47,264 --> 01:10:49,847
with the break-up of their body, 
after death,

1108
01:10:49,847 --> 01:10:54,621
What happens to an Arahant 
when they die?

1109
01:10:54,621 --> 01:10:57,020
I would answer that the 
body is impermanent;

1110
01:10:57,020 --> 01:10:58,489
what is impermanent is suffering,

1111
01:10:58,489 --> 01:11:00,530
what is suffering has 
ceased and passed away.

1112
01:11:00,530 --> 01:11:01,542
that's all.

1113
01:11:01,542 --> 01:11:04,176
Experience is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

1114
01:11:04,176 --> 01:11:06,420
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

1115
01:11:06,420 --> 01:11:12,708
Perception is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

1116
01:11:12,708 --> 01:11:15,048
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

1117
01:11:15,048 --> 01:11:17,859
Will is impermanent; 
what is impermanent is suffering,

1118
01:11:17,859 --> 01:11:20,240
what is suffering has ceased 
and passed away.

1119
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:26,238
Consciousnesses; each one of them 
like citta, like the mind is impermanent

1120
01:11:26,238 --> 01:11:27,494
what is impermanent is suffering

1121
01:11:27,494 --> 01:11:30,579
what is suffering has ceased and 
passed away.

1122
01:11:30,579 --> 01:11:34,149
the process has just stopped

1123
01:11:34,149 --> 01:11:37,817
Nothing being enlightened 
Nothing has been annihilated, sorry

1124
01:11:37,817 --> 01:11:40,171
it's just a process 
stopped

1125
01:11:40,171 --> 01:11:46,490
Good, Yamaka. Good!
says Sariputta

1126
01:11:46,490 --> 01:11:51,730
That's one of the most powerful 
teachings of the fact about

1127
01:11:51,730 --> 01:11:54,931
when people say 'is there 
something outside the five khandas,

1128
01:11:54,931 --> 01:11:57,608
outside the five components of 
existence

1129
01:11:57,608 --> 01:12:01,210
which you can take to be 
your essential self

1130
01:12:01,210 --> 01:12:03,249
very clear.

1131
01:12:03,249 --> 01:12:05,493
The answer of course is no

1132
01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:08,434
So the Buddha who is very very 
clever, smart

1133
01:12:08,434 --> 01:12:13,502
to cut off all possible angles of escape

1134
01:12:13,502 --> 01:12:17,003
people always like to find out 
a little hole where they can exist

1135
01:12:17,003 --> 01:12:19,722
fortunately the Buddha was 
too smart for you.

1136
01:12:19,722 --> 01:12:24,521
If there is the view, 
‘The soul and the body are the same,’

1137
01:12:24,521 --> 01:12:27,980
there is no living of the holy life;

1138
01:12:27,980 --> 01:12:30,624
The reason is because once you die 
the soul dies anyway

1139
01:12:30,624 --> 01:12:32,679
so what's the point of this

1140
01:12:32,679 --> 01:12:36,002
if there is the view, 
‘The soul is one thing, the body is another,’

1141
01:12:36,002 --> 01:12:37,934
there is no living of the holy life;

1142
01:12:37,934 --> 01:12:39,436
Because it doesn't matter 
what you do

1143
01:12:39,436 --> 01:12:41,953
the soul is just independent of you

1144
01:12:41,953 --> 01:12:43,963
Without veering towards either 
of these extremes,

1145
01:12:43,963 --> 01:12:46,082
the Buddha teaches the Dhamma 
by the middle:

1146
01:12:46,082 --> 01:12:49,535
Dependent Origination and 
Dependent Cessation

1147
01:12:49,535 --> 01:12:54,756
I remember once reading the Bhagavad Gita
as a young student

1148
01:12:54,756 --> 01:12:58,761
and there I think it was Krishna 
talking to Arjuna

1149
01:12:58,761 --> 01:13:01,691
And Arjuna was not wanting to go 
into battle to fight

1150
01:13:01,691 --> 01:13:03,819
because it's going to kill people

1151
01:13:03,819 --> 01:13:04,838
and Krishna 
was saying

1152
01:13:04,838 --> 01:13:08,340
'you are not killing anybody 
just killing bodies that's all'

1153
01:13:08,340 --> 01:13:14,513
No soul, the soul is totally independent 
you can't stop a soul with a sword

1154
01:13:14,513 --> 01:13:19,350
So you know, that actually put me off 
Hinduism because there is no real

1155
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:24,268
you can't really kill anybody 
because the soul is indestructible

1156
01:13:24,268 --> 01:13:26,830
ant that didn't make 
any sense to me.

1157
01:13:26,830 --> 01:13:29,026
That's not really putting down 
Hinduism

1158
01:13:29,026 --> 01:13:31,006
because that's only one 
tiny part of it.

1159
01:13:31,006 --> 01:13:33,844
but I remember that as something 
I couldn't never accept

1160
01:13:33,844 --> 01:13:37,811
if the soul is totally independent 
of the body no matter what you do

1161
01:13:37,811 --> 01:13:40,727
you can't kill a soul or 
harm it or hurt it

1162
01:13:40,727 --> 01:13:42,379
it's independent.

1163
01:13:42,379 --> 01:13:45,742
So there is no holy life 
the Buddha is saying here.

1164
01:13:45,742 --> 01:13:48,498
So if the soul is one thing, 
the body is another

1165
01:13:48,498 --> 01:13:51,207
or if the soul and the body 
are the same

1166
01:13:51,207 --> 01:13:53,996
there is no living of the holy life

1167
01:13:53,996 --> 01:13:57,057
Not veering to either of those 
extremes, the third way

1168
01:13:57,057 --> 01:13:59,023
the Buddha teaches the Dhamma 
by the middle,

1169
01:13:59,023 --> 01:14:02,028
Dependent Origination and 
Dependent Cessation

1170
01:14:02,028 --> 01:14:08,093
And this is another definition 
of the right view

1171
01:14:08,093 --> 01:14:11,648
One who sees dependent origination 
and cessation sees the Dhamma;

1172
01:14:11,648 --> 01:14:16,178
the one who sees the Dhamma 
sees dependent origination.

1173
01:14:16,178 --> 01:14:18,094
So it's not just

1174
01:14:18,094 --> 01:14:20,989
you can't say sort-of seeing non self

1175
01:14:20,989 --> 01:14:24,900
but what is it that we take to be 
this self

1176
01:14:24,900 --> 01:14:27,674
and this is where dependent 
origination comes in

1177
01:14:27,674 --> 01:14:33,479
And this of course answers your 
question about how rebirth can happen

1178
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,235
nothing getting reborn

1179
01:14:35,235 --> 01:14:36,484
not energy

1180
01:14:36,484 --> 01:14:40,058
but Cause and Effect

1181
01:14:40,058 --> 01:14:43,588
With delusion as a cause, 
volition comes to be;

1182
01:14:43,588 --> 01:14:46,280
especially the delusion of me.

1183
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,556
as long as there is a me 
then I do stuff

1184
01:14:50,556 --> 01:14:53,976
when you disappear 
your will goes

1185
01:14:53,976 --> 01:14:57,341
because your will, the doer, 
volition

1186
01:14:57,341 --> 01:15:04,202
that is just a sign of a me 
there is always a me behind it

1187
01:15:04,202 --> 01:15:08,960
with volition as cause comes the 
consciousnesses;

1188
01:15:09,075 --> 01:15:14,744
this always has to be 
in your future life

1189
01:15:14,744 --> 01:15:18,983
with consciousness as the cause, 
the objects of consciousnesses come

1190
01:15:18,983 --> 01:15:22,556
these are the sheaves or reeds simile

1191
01:15:22,556 --> 01:15:28,685
the way that farmers in the old days 
would dry the reeds or the hay

1192
01:15:28,685 --> 01:15:31,715
they would make a sheaf 
two sheaves or hay

1193
01:15:31,715 --> 01:15:33,503
and lean them up against 
each other

1194
01:15:33,503 --> 01:15:35,929
you take one away the 
other one falls down

1195
01:15:35,929 --> 01:15:40,308
so objects of consciousness and 
consciousness-they have to come together

1196
01:15:40,308 --> 01:15:44,168
If there are no objects of consciousnesses 
consciousness vanishes

1197
01:15:44,168 --> 01:15:47,668
if there are no objects of the mind 
citta vanishes, disappears

1198
01:15:47,668 --> 01:15:51,397
that's in the Nidāna Saṃyutta

1199
01:15:51,397 --> 01:15:55,867
with name-and-form as the cause, the objects: 
you get the six sense bases;

1200
01:15:55,867 --> 01:15:58,127
with the six sense bases, 
sensory contact;

1201
01:15:58,127 --> 01:16:00,542
with sensory contact as cause, 
causes experience;

1202
01:16:00,542 --> 01:16:04,752
Now this is not the sense of 
A leads to B and

1203
01:16:04,778 --> 01:16:05,947
few seconds later then C

1204
01:16:05,947 --> 01:16:10,519
these things always have to be there 
together

1205
01:16:10,519 --> 01:16:13,418
and with experience as a cause 
wanting

1206
01:16:13,418 --> 01:16:18,469
with wanting causes the fuel 
the Upādāna

1207
01:16:18,469 --> 01:16:21,071
and with fuel as a cause 
states of existence

1208
01:16:21,071 --> 01:16:23,171
which I mentioned, you create these

1209
01:16:23,171 --> 01:16:25,473
with some place to go to 
you cause rebirth

1210
01:16:25,473 --> 01:16:29,173
and with rebirth as a cause 
ageing-and-death, sorrow, crying, pain,

1211
01:16:29,173 --> 01:16:31,131
unhappiness, and distress come to be.

1212
01:16:31,131 --> 01:16:34,573
Such is the origin of this whole 
mass of suffering.

1213
01:16:34,573 --> 01:16:38,471
No God, no Brahma can be called 
the maker of life;

1214
01:16:38,471 --> 01:16:44,417
Empty phenomena roll on, 
dependent on conditions all.

1215
01:16:44,417 --> 01:16:47,071
rolling on 
cause and effect

1216
01:16:47,071 --> 01:16:50,470
empty conditions

1217
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:56,230
no being, no energy 
nothing there, empty conditions

1218
01:16:56,230 --> 01:16:59,645
But when a meditator has 
abandoned delusion

1219
01:16:59,645 --> 01:17:01,342
and aroused true knowledge

1220
01:17:01,342 --> 01:17:05,316
then, with the fading away of delusion 
and the arising of true knowledge,

1221
01:17:05,316 --> 01:17:08,073
you do not generate a 
meritorious volition,

1222
01:17:08,073 --> 01:17:09,885
or a demeritorious volition,

1223
01:17:09,885 --> 01:17:12,864
not even a neutral volition.

1224
01:17:12,864 --> 01:17:17,363
You don't generate anything because 
there is no one there to do the generation

1225
01:17:17,363 --> 01:17:20,000
So the arising of true knowledge

1226
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,561
Sometimes I have heard that 
some people say

1227
01:17:22,561 --> 01:17:27,184
Ah Dependent origination it cuts at 
the gap between this and that

1228
01:17:27,184 --> 01:17:28,740
that's so much ko mayan

1229
01:17:28,740 --> 01:17:32,026
remember the word ko mayan?

1230
01:17:32,026 --> 01:17:37,047
ko mayan: ko is the bull; mayan is what comes 
out from the back end of a bull

1231
01:17:37,047 --> 01:17:39,875
Buddha never says that

1232
01:17:39,875 --> 01:17:44,028
It's always delusion; when that's abandoned

1233
01:17:44,123 --> 01:17:48,929
that's when this 
causal sequence gets stopped.

1234
01:17:48,929 --> 01:17:51,039
With the remainderless fading away 
and cessation of delusion

1235
01:17:51,039 --> 01:17:54,594
comes the cessation of will; 
Woo hoo that's powerful.

1236
01:17:54,594 --> 01:17:57,024
When you realize there is 
no one there

1237
01:17:57,024 --> 01:18:00,500
then actually you can 
stop the will

1238
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:04,552
Beforehand you suppress the will

1239
01:18:04,552 --> 01:18:07,204
but when you see there is no one there

1240
01:18:07,204 --> 01:18:10,085
three is nothing to do the 
willing anymore

1241
01:18:10,085 --> 01:18:11,921
That's one of the reasons why a 
stream-winner

1242
01:18:11,921 --> 01:18:13,938
can't get reborn that many times.

1243
01:18:13,938 --> 01:18:17,592
The will is gone.

1244
01:18:17,592 --> 01:18:21,750
with the cessation of will, cessation of 
consciousnesses; in your next life.

1245
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:24,527
Nothing to get you reborn

1246
01:18:24,527 --> 01:18:28,260
cessation of consciousnesses, the objects 
of consciousness disappear

1247
01:18:28,260 --> 01:18:35,211
sense bases, sensory contact, experience 
wanting, fuel, states of existence, rebirth

1248
01:18:35,211 --> 01:18:38,664
the whole thing stops.

1249
01:18:38,664 --> 01:18:41,991
House builder..- this is from the 
Thera Gatha

1250
01:18:41,991 --> 01:18:45,088
Many monks, nuns use this phrase

1251
01:18:45,088 --> 01:18:51,224
House builder, you have now been seen.
You shall build no houses again.

1252
01:18:51,224 --> 01:18:54,470
Your rafters have been broken 
and your gables all torn.

1253
01:18:54,470 --> 01:19:01,133
Thrown off course, the Citta will be 
destroyed right here

1254
01:19:01,133 --> 01:19:05,513
without any doubt citta; you 
shall be destroyed.

1255
01:19:05,513 --> 01:19:12,148
That's the mind; the House builder

1256
01:19:12,148 --> 01:19:14,390
Once you have seen that

1257
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:17,914
it's not who you are

1258
01:19:17,914 --> 01:19:23,694
It's just empty phenomena 
rolling on, your mind, the citta

1259
01:19:23,694 --> 01:19:25,874
That's in the Thera Gatha

1260
01:19:25,874 --> 01:19:29,438
House builder, you have now been seen.
You shall build no houses again.

1261
01:19:29,438 --> 01:19:32,193
Your rafters have been broken 
and your gables all torn.

1262
01:19:32,193 --> 01:19:39,313
Thrown off course, the Citta will be 
destroyed right here -- Thera Gatha

1263
01:19:39,322 --> 01:19:43,340
That's was your house builder

1264
01:19:43,716 --> 01:19:47,823
No more rebirth 
phew

1265
01:19:47,823 --> 01:19:51,309
okay that actually comes to 
a nice stop

1266
01:19:51,309 --> 01:19:55,701
That's the end with a 
really big bang of Right View

1267
01:19:55,701 --> 01:19:59,719
according to the Word of the Buddha

1268
01:19:59,719 --> 01:20:02,012
okay looks like we got some 
questions from overseas

1269
01:20:02,012 --> 01:20:08,722
So let's deal with those before 
I ask any more questions from here

1270
01:20:08,722 --> 01:20:10,890
Here we go

1271
01:20:10,890 --> 01:20:16,789
From Malaysia - Dear Ajahn is there any 
distinction between making merit and Kamma

1272
01:20:16,789 --> 01:20:21,495
Ajahn-Kamma includes making merit 
and making bad kamma as well

1273
01:20:21,495 --> 01:20:31,497
so kamma, you can make good merit 
you can make ... never heard the word bad-merit

1274
01:20:31,497 --> 01:20:34,124
making merit's like good kamma

1275
01:20:34,124 --> 01:20:42,963
so good kamma is merit and 
bad kamma is demerit ... ok thank you

1276
01:20:42,963 --> 01:20:48,261
They have over here, you have 
demerits when you have long week-ends

1277
01:20:48,261 --> 01:20:51,118
you get double demerits

1278
01:20:51,118 --> 01:20:56,810
so basically kamma is just how 
merits and demerits are made

1279
01:20:56,810 --> 01:21:02,059
From Santa Barbara-is there a way to 
get rid of the results of the bad kamma

1280
01:21:02,059 --> 01:21:06,134
with education and understanding 
or is suffering necessary?

1281
01:21:06,134 --> 01:21:10,545
With bit of faith you can lessen the 
results of bad kamma

1282
01:21:10,545 --> 01:21:12,915
and I don't like to say this but

1283
01:21:12,915 --> 01:21:15,076
The Buddha said this so 
have to admit

1284
01:21:15,076 --> 01:21:17,222
the other way of overcoming 
bad kamma is

1285
01:21:17,222 --> 01:21:22,510
not overcoming it but diluting it

1286
01:21:22,510 --> 01:21:24,481
the reason I don't like 
saying this is because

1287
01:21:24,481 --> 01:21:27,612
many monks and places use it ..

1288
01:21:27,612 --> 01:21:30,893
as a great way to raise funds.

1289
01:21:30,893 --> 01:21:34,822
Sometimes monks and monasteries 
get too rich

1290
01:21:34,822 --> 01:21:39,009
especially that one in Thailand which 
is being shut down now at last.

1291
01:21:39,009 --> 01:21:43,389
But yes the Buddha said 
in the simile of salt

1292
01:21:43,389 --> 01:21:47,620
If you take a table full of salt 
and you put it in my glass of water

1293
01:21:47,620 --> 01:21:49,006
and you stir it up

1294
01:21:49,006 --> 01:21:50,909
it means you can't drink the 
whole glass

1295
01:21:50,909 --> 01:21:52,645
it's so salty

1296
01:21:52,645 --> 01:21:57,346
But if you put in a rain water 
tank of thousand liters

1297
01:21:57,346 --> 01:21:59,480
and you stir it up

1298
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:01,767
then you drink that water, 
you can hardly taste it

1299
01:22:01,767 --> 01:22:03,863
because it really dilutes

1300
01:22:03,863 --> 01:22:08,002
And the Buddha said it's the same 
with bad Kamma

1301
01:22:08,002 --> 01:22:12,303
If you got a certain amount of bad kamma
and you only got a little bit of good kamma

1302
01:22:12,303 --> 01:22:15,772
you are going to really taste 
that bad kamma.

1303
01:22:15,772 --> 01:22:20,716
But if you dilute it by making lots of 
good kamma

1304
01:22:20,716 --> 01:22:23,539
then you want even taste it.

1305
01:22:23,539 --> 01:22:25,989
So unscrupulous monks they does some 
bad kamma

1306
01:22:25,989 --> 01:22:30,045
well I think that's like a thousand 
dollars to the nuns' monastery

1307
01:22:30,045 --> 01:22:33,463
and that will probably dilute it

1308
01:22:33,463 --> 01:22:37,479
It just opens the door to really 
unscrupulous practices.

1309
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,038
so that's why ..

1310
01:22:39,038 --> 01:22:41,014
Let's do good kamma anyway.

1311
01:22:41,014 --> 01:22:43,936
Not just to abandon the bad Kamma

1312
01:22:43,936 --> 01:22:45,013
Some people do that

1313
01:22:45,013 --> 01:22:47,423
they sort-of go out on a Saturday night

1314
01:22:47,423 --> 01:22:51,316
and they come to the temple on 
Sunday morning to dilute the bad kamma

1315
01:22:51,316 --> 01:22:54,249
they did on Saturday night.

1316
01:22:54,249 --> 01:22:56,873
That's really just a bit unscrupulous

1317
01:22:56,873 --> 01:22:58,799
But it's true.

1318
01:22:58,799 --> 01:23:04,271
You can; not get rid but dilute the results of
bad kamma by doing a lot of good kamma

1319
01:23:04,271 --> 01:23:08,995
But the best way is actually 
to become a Stream-winner

1320
01:23:08,995 --> 01:23:10,786
And lastly from Penang

1321
01:23:10,786 --> 01:23:14,506
Can a person know for 
sure he or she is a Sotāpanna

1322
01:23:14,506 --> 01:23:17,031
that's a wonderful question.

1323
01:23:17,031 --> 01:23:18,876
There is a lot of people

1324
01:23:18,876 --> 01:23:22,676
you can know a person is not 
a Stream-winner

1325
01:23:22,676 --> 01:23:25,211
you can't know if a person is

1326
01:23:25,211 --> 01:23:29,029
So you... so many people get deluded

1327
01:23:29,029 --> 01:23:33,887
They want to be a Stream-winner or 
Once returner or Non returner so much

1328
01:23:33,887 --> 01:23:36,529
that they just delude themselves.

1329
01:23:36,529 --> 01:23:40,197
The desire, the craving is one of the 
five hindrances

1330
01:23:40,197 --> 01:23:42,787
that means they don't see things 
that clearly.

1331
01:23:42,787 --> 01:23:44,506
The monks know this story

1332
01:23:44,506 --> 01:23:48,609
I went to see this great monk 
Ajahn Thate many years ago

1333
01:23:48,609 --> 01:23:50,595
and had to wait in line

1334
01:23:50,595 --> 01:23:54,614
and as I was waiting he was 
taking to this other

1335
01:23:54,614 --> 01:23:56,688
Indonesian girl, very very wealthy

1336
01:23:56,688 --> 01:24:00,551
and she was talking about 
her meditation

1337
01:24:00,551 --> 01:24:02,487
She said, I was meditating

1338
01:24:02,487 --> 01:24:05,262
and you know my mind went so still 
went blank, things disappeared

1339
01:24:05,262 --> 01:24:07,252
that was Fourth Jhana 
wasn't it?

1340
01:24:07,252 --> 01:24:13,374
And then Ajahn Thate said 
no it wasn't, you were just sleepy.

1341
01:24:13,374 --> 01:24:15,982
Then she said you know 
this is what happened first of all

1342
01:24:15,982 --> 01:24:18,931
and then it was.. Fourth Jhana 
wasn't it; she asked again.

1343
01:24:18,931 --> 01:24:20,180
No no no

1344
01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:21,871
And then she asked again

1345
01:24:21,871 --> 01:24:23,612
she asked about 
four or five times

1346
01:24:23,612 --> 01:24:25,032
It was Fourth Jhana 
wasn't it

1347
01:24:25,032 --> 01:24:26,393
No no no no

1348
01:24:26,393 --> 01:24:27,885
I was listening to this

1349
01:24:27,885 --> 01:24:29,333
She asked again

1350
01:24:29,333 --> 01:24:30,747
and he said Urhh..

1351
01:24:30,747 --> 01:24:33,345
and she smiled and 
went out

1352
01:24:33,345 --> 01:24:35,028
and she told everybody 
afterwards

1353
01:24:35,028 --> 01:24:38,572
my Jhāna has been confirmed

1354
01:24:38,572 --> 01:24:44,152
Ajahn Thate said Urhh...
and that means yes; it's true

1355
01:24:44,152 --> 01:24:46,232
And I saw that

1356
01:24:46,232 --> 01:24:47,781
this is one of the problems

1357
01:24:47,781 --> 01:24:50,822
people want these things 
so much

1358
01:24:50,822 --> 01:24:54,422
they want it confirmed by 
somebody else

1359
01:24:54,422 --> 01:24:59,586
And even in this one Sutta 
where Ananda asked the Buddha

1360
01:24:59,586 --> 01:25:02,993
All these people who come up 
to you, the greatest teacher

1361
01:25:02,993 --> 01:25:05,218
that they have faith in

1362
01:25:05,218 --> 01:25:09,872
and they claim to be Stream-winners 
Once-returners, Non-returners Arahants

1363
01:25:09,872 --> 01:25:13,655
Are all those attainment real? true?

1364
01:25:13,655 --> 01:25:17,297
And the Buddha said 
some are, some aren't

1365
01:25:17,297 --> 01:25:20,464
And I read from that even the 
Buddha couldn't convince a person

1366
01:25:20,464 --> 01:25:22,944
they are deluded.

1367
01:25:22,944 --> 01:25:26,094
So that's just how powerful these 
delusions can be

1368
01:25:26,094 --> 01:25:28,254
people think they are 
stream-winner, once-returner

1369
01:25:28,254 --> 01:25:29,555
even Arahants

1370
01:25:29,555 --> 01:25:32,355
and not even the Buddha could 
dislodge them from that

1371
01:25:32,375 --> 01:25:35,308
the power of the sense of self

1372
01:25:35,308 --> 01:25:40,213
creates, manipulates and 
just anything else

1373
01:25:40,213 --> 01:25:42,109
they would just push aside

1374
01:25:42,109 --> 01:25:44,840
no no no I am still a stream-winner
I am still a once-returner

1375
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:46,907
so it's very dangerous

1376
01:25:46,907 --> 01:25:48,985
which is one of the reasons why

1377
01:25:48,985 --> 01:25:51,946
that number one, you don't tell people 
about your attainments

1378
01:25:51,946 --> 01:25:53,852
because they could be wrong.

1379
01:25:53,852 --> 01:25:56,636
Number two check them out

1380
01:25:56,636 --> 01:25:58,294
from what the Buddha said

1381
01:25:58,294 --> 01:26:00,002
This is the only real place

1382
01:26:00,002 --> 01:26:02,605
you can actually get some 
authority.

1383
01:26:02,605 --> 01:26:04,186
Not from me

1384
01:26:04,186 --> 01:26:07,166
not from any other monk or nun

1385
01:26:07,166 --> 01:26:10,625
but from this..
how the Buddha taught.

1386
01:26:10,625 --> 01:26:15,880
Basic thing, a Stream-winner 
they can't have a sense of self

1387
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,866
It's much easier to see if a 
person is an Anāgāmī or not

1388
01:26:19,866 --> 01:26:21,319
a non-returner.

1389
01:26:21,319 --> 01:26:27,173
Because a non-returners don't 
have any lust or ill-will

1390
01:26:27,173 --> 01:26:32,598
you cannot make a non-returner 
angry.

1391
01:26:32,598 --> 01:26:36,096
which is one of the reasons we 
test people

1392
01:26:36,096 --> 01:26:41,253
If anybody says they are a 
non-returner

1393
01:26:41,253 --> 01:26:44,658
Mahesha is just laughing over there

1394
01:26:44,658 --> 01:26:46,658
I think I told this before Mahesha

1395
01:26:46,658 --> 01:26:48,093
If you say you are an Anāgāmī

1396
01:26:48,093 --> 01:26:53,847
I would say "No way can a Sri Lankan 
Girl become a non-returner

1397
01:26:53,847 --> 01:26:55,336
that's impossible

1398
01:26:55,336 --> 01:26:57,658
May be in your next life when 
you become a boy,

1399
01:26:57,658 --> 01:27:01,263
then you can"

1400
01:27:01,263 --> 01:27:04,126
you know me..I don't believe 
in that sort-of stuff

1401
01:27:04,126 --> 01:27:06,805
but I say that to try and
irritate her

1402
01:27:06,805 --> 01:27:08,609
get her upset, find her weak point

1403
01:27:08,609 --> 01:27:13,059
If she "what you misogynist, I 
believed in you, I thought you

1404
01:27:13,059 --> 01:27:14,718
regarded everybody equal.

1405
01:27:14,718 --> 01:27:16,389
you are a modern monk"

1406
01:27:16,389 --> 01:27:19,127
Sorry you failed the test.

1407
01:27:19,127 --> 01:27:23,265
So you find peoples' weak points 
and try make them angry.

1408
01:27:23,265 --> 01:27:25,554
If they do get angry.

1409
01:27:25,554 --> 01:27:29,052
Yes, the test is being concluded

1410
01:27:29,052 --> 01:27:30,480
And I don't mind these days

1411
01:27:30,480 --> 01:27:33,047
because you should find 
these things out yourself

1412
01:27:33,047 --> 01:27:37,364
A stream-winner, there is a little test

1413
01:27:37,364 --> 01:27:39,159
it's in one of the commentaries

1414
01:27:39,159 --> 01:27:41,105
I had to read this because

1415
01:27:41,105 --> 01:27:46,161
if a monk or a Bhikkhuni say 
they are a Stream-winner

1416
01:27:46,161 --> 01:27:50,099
and they are not, it can be 
like a capital offence

1417
01:27:50,099 --> 01:27:52,461
they have to be disrobed

1418
01:27:52,461 --> 01:27:55,661
if they know they are lying

1419
01:27:55,661 --> 01:27:58,598
if they are just boasting it 
and they are not

1420
01:27:58,598 --> 01:28:01,298
So sometimes we have to 
find out

1421
01:28:01,298 --> 01:28:03,147
are they or are they not

1422
01:28:03,147 --> 01:28:04,746
So there is a little test

1423
01:28:04,746 --> 01:28:06,813
one of those tests

1424
01:28:06,813 --> 01:28:10,666
two questions you have to ask 
for being a Stream Winner

1425
01:28:10,666 --> 01:28:15,522
is; when and where did it happen?

1426
01:28:15,522 --> 01:28:19,233
When? 
what time of the day?

1427
01:28:19,233 --> 01:28:21,734
Where? 
What were you doing?

1428
01:28:21,734 --> 01:28:23,853
because it's an event

1429
01:28:23,853 --> 01:28:26,675
It's not something you just 
goes on

1430
01:28:26,675 --> 01:28:29,750
Yeah I have faith in non self now

1431
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:32,104
and don't know exactly when 
that happened

1432
01:28:32,104 --> 01:28:33,805
yeah.. just understand it now

1433
01:28:33,805 --> 01:28:37,802
it's an event.
stream-winning

1434
01:28:37,802 --> 01:28:40,416
That's a powerful thing to know

1435
01:28:40,416 --> 01:28:43,367
Now I blown it with you guys now

1436
01:28:43,367 --> 01:28:46,074
if you do want to sort-of fake 
stream-winning

1437
01:28:46,074 --> 01:28:48,873
you would say... it happened at 
Dhammaloka Centre

1438
01:28:48,873 --> 01:28:52,989
when Ajahn Brahm was doing the 
Sutta Class

1439
01:28:52,989 --> 01:28:55,484
so there are other ways to 
find that out .

1440
01:28:55,484 --> 01:28:59,114
So yeah that's how you can know it 
for sure

1441
01:28:59,114 --> 01:29:01,184
when did it happen?
where did it happen

1442
01:29:01,184 --> 01:29:02,938
and honestly check it out 
with the Suttas

1443
01:29:02,938 --> 01:29:07,226
is there any idea that there is 
self which is going to..

1444
01:29:07,226 --> 01:29:11,724
a citta, an essence, anything

1445
01:29:11,724 --> 01:29:16,859
which will survive 
a death of an Arahant

1446
01:29:16,859 --> 01:29:19,339
okay that actually finishes good

1447
01:29:19,339 --> 01:29:20,713
I wanted to finish it 
a bit early

1448
01:29:20,733 --> 01:29:22,066
because it's Full-Moon Day today

1449
01:29:22,066 --> 01:29:24,055
and have to go back to the monastery

1450
01:29:24,055 --> 01:29:26,425
for the Patimokkha ceremony 
and also

1451
01:29:26,425 --> 01:29:30,696
tomorrow morning I am going to Sydney 
not Sydney to Canberra

1452
01:29:30,696 --> 01:29:32,775
But coming up next is the 
Second Factor

1453
01:29:32,775 --> 01:29:35,757
which you can see on the board there

1454
01:29:35,757 --> 01:29:40,258
is not Right Intention

1455
01:29:40,258 --> 01:29:43,066
but I am calling it 
Right Motivation

1456
01:29:43,066 --> 01:29:45,200
And I am sticking by this

1457
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,876
as the word Saṅkappa

1458
01:29:47,876 --> 01:29:51,869
and it's explained 
or it's translated

1459
01:29:51,869 --> 01:29:54,750
by how it's defined

1460
01:29:54,750 --> 01:29:57,237
Not by it etymology

1461
01:29:57,237 --> 01:30:00,209
In other words you take the word 
and you split it up

1462
01:30:00,209 --> 01:30:02,727
or see how it's used in other places

1463
01:30:02,727 --> 01:30:05,567
by how it's used this particular 
function

1464
01:30:05,567 --> 01:30:08,624
as being number two in the 
Eightfold Path

1465
01:30:08,624 --> 01:30:10,605
The Right Motivation

1466
01:30:10,605 --> 01:30:12,803
And that actually opens up the 
Eightfold Path

1467
01:30:12,803 --> 01:30:15,688
in a much more interesting 
understanding

1468
01:30:15,688 --> 01:30:18,719
But that will come in a couple of weeks 
or may be in four weeks time

1469
01:30:18,719 --> 01:30:23,544
because I will be in Hon Kong 
in two weeks time

1470
01:30:23,544 --> 01:30:25,906
but this is what coming next

1471
01:30:25,906 --> 01:30:28,743
Now finished with Right View

1472
01:30:28,743 --> 01:30:30,729
So hope you enjoyed that

1473
01:30:30,729 --> 01:30:34,203
it's put online so if you want to 
go over it afterwards

1474
01:30:34,203 --> 01:30:38,230
you can recall, get online 
and listen to it online again

1475
01:30:38,230 --> 01:30:40,520
and just get more into it.

1476
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:42,540
Thank you for listening

1477
01:30:42,540 --> 01:30:45,320
Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu

1478
01:30:45,333 --> 01:30:48,661
okay now pay respects to the Buddha