relation to activities that today
would not

relation to activities that today
would not attract a

relation to activities that today
would not attract a criminal

would not attract a criminal
sanction. Those things

would not attract a criminal
sanction. Those things

sanction. Those things are covered
off. Once

sanction. Those things are covered
off. Once

sanction. Those things are covered
off. Once again I thank members

sanction. Those things are covered
off. Once again I thank members

off. Once again I thank members for
their questions. I

off. Once again I thank members for
their questions. I

their questions. I look forward to
the

their questions. I look forward to
the

their questions. I look forward to
the ongoing discussion.

the ongoing discussion.
I

the ongoing discussion.
I call the Hon Clare

the ongoing discussion.
I call the Hon Clare

the ongoing discussion.
I call the Hon Clare Curran.

I call the Hon Clare Curran.
Thank

I call the Hon Clare Curran.
Thank Madam Chair. I feel

I call the Hon Clare Curran.
Thank Madam Chair. I feel

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to take a call

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to take a call

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to take a call on this

Thank Madam Chair. I feel proud and
hum to take a call on this bill,

hum to take a call on this bill,
such

hum to take a call on this bill,
such

hum to take a call on this bill,
such a necessary

hum to take a call on this bill,
such a necessary

hum to take a call on this bill,
such a necessary piece of

such a necessary piece of
legislation

such a necessary piece of
legislation in the healing

such a necessary piece of
legislation in the healing

such a necessary piece of
legislation in the healing process

legislation in the healing process
which

legislation in the healing process
which

legislation in the healing process
which continues around

legislation in the healing process
which continues around

legislation in the healing process
which continues around this stigma

legislation in the healing process
which continues around this stigma

which continues around this stigma
that

which continues around this stigma
that has persisted

which continues around this stigma
that has persisted

which continues around this stigma
that has persisted despite

which continues around this stigma
that has persisted despite the

which continues around this stigma
that has persisted despite the

that has persisted despite the 1986
piece of

that has persisted despite the 1986
piece of

that has persisted despite the 1986
piece of legislation but the

that has persisted despite the 1986
piece of legislation but the

piece of legislation but the stigma
that

piece of legislation but the stigma
that

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been suffered by

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been suffered by

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been suffered by people who

piece of legislation but the stigma
that has been suffered by people who

that has been suffered by people who
are

that has been suffered by people who
are being punished or have

that has been suffered by people who
are being punished or have felt

are being punished or have felt that
they continue

are being punished or have felt that
they continue

are being punished or have felt that
they continue to be

are being punished or have felt that
they continue to be

are being punished or have felt that
they continue to be punished for

are being punished or have felt that
they continue to be punished for

they continue to be punished for
being themselves by previous

they continue to be punished for
being themselves by previous

being themselves by previous
criminal convictions.

being themselves by previous
criminal convictions. I

being themselves by previous
criminal convictions. I feel

being themselves by previous
criminal convictions. I feel proud

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of this

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of this Parliament

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of this Parliament

criminal convictions. I feel proud
of the whole of this Parliament and

of the whole of this Parliament and
the Parliament of New

of the whole of this Parliament and
the Parliament of New Zealand

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking this step.

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking this step. I've

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking this step. I've got

the Parliament of New Zealand that
we are taking this step. I've got

we are taking this step. I've got
some

we are taking this step. I've got
some specific

we are taking this step. I've got
some specific questions

we are taking this step. I've got
some specific questions

we are taking this step. I've got
some specific questions around

we are taking this step. I've got
some specific questions around

some specific questions around
section

some specific questions around
section

some specific questions around

some specific questions around

which was inserted at the select
committee

which was inserted at the select
committee process,

which was inserted at the select
committee process,

committee process, around the
offence

committee process, around the
offence

committee process, around the
offence to

committee process, around the
offence to require or request

committee process, around the
offence to require or request

committee process, around the
offence to require or request that

offence to require or request that
individual disregard expungement.

offence to require or request that
individual disregard expungement. I

individual disregard expungement. I
note that again the

individual disregard expungement. I
note that again the

individual disregard expungement. I
note that again the purpose of the

individual disregard expungement. I
note that again the purpose of the

note that again the purpose of the
bill to reduce

note that again the purpose of the
bill to reduce prejudice,

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all the other

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all the other

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all the other negative effects

bill to reduce prejudice, still ma
and all the other negative effects

and all the other negative effects
arising

and all the other negative effects
arising from

and all the other negative effects
arising from a

and all the other negative effects
arising from a

and all the other negative effects
arising from a conviction for

and all the other negative effects
arising from a conviction for

arising from a conviction for
historical

arising from a conviction for
historical homosexual offence, but

arising from a conviction for
historical homosexual offence, but

historical homosexual offence, but
the

historical homosexual offence, but
the

historical homosexual offence, but
the select

historical homosexual offence, but
the select committee

historical homosexual offence, but
the select committee obviously felt

historical homosexual offence, but
the select committee obviously felt

the select committee obviously felt
concerned enough

the select committee obviously felt
concerned enough

the select committee obviously felt
concerned enough to want to insert

the select committee obviously felt
concerned enough to want to insert

concerned enough to want to insert a
new clause.

concerned enough to want to insert a
new clause. I

concerned enough to want to insert a
new clause. I don't know whether

concerned enough to want to insert a
new clause. I don't know whether

new clause. I don't know whether
that was

new clause. I don't know whether
that was as

new clause. I don't know whether
that was as a result of good

new clause. I don't know whether
that was as a result of good

that was as a result of good work
just

that was as a result of good work
just

that was as a result of good work
just by the select

that was as a result of good work
just by the select

just by the select committee
members,

just by the select committee
members, thinking

members, thinking of the unintended
consequences or

members, thinking of the unintended
consequences or

members, thinking of the unintended
consequences or whether this came

members, thinking of the unintended
consequences or whether this came

consequences or whether this came
from

consequences or whether this came
from submissions,

from submissions, the 37
submissions,

from submissions, the 37
submissions, but

from submissions, the 37
submissions, but the concern that

from submissions, the 37
submissions, but the concern that

submissions, but the concern that in
some situations even

submissions, but the concern that in
some situations even

submissions, but the concern that in
some situations even if

submissions, but the concern that in
some situations even if a conviction

submissions, but the concern that in
some situations even if a conviction

some situations even if a conviction
had

some situations even if a conviction
had been successfully

some situations even if a conviction
had been successfully

had been successfully expunged that
people might

had been successfully expunged that
people might be

people might be required to disclose
the

people might be required to disclose
the fact

people might be required to disclose
the fact of the

people might be required to disclose
the fact of the conviction.

people might be required to disclose
the fact of the conviction. So

people might be required to disclose
the fact of the conviction. So

people might be required to disclose
the fact of the conviction. So the

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion of

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion of clause

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion of clause

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it

the fact of the conviction. So the
insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it

insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it
an explicit

insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it
an explicit

insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it
an explicit offence to require or

insertion of clause 13 (a) makes it
an explicit offence to require or

an explicit offence to require or
request

an explicit offence to require or
request an individual to

an explicit offence to require or
request an individual to

request an individual to disregard
the

request an individual to disregard
the

request an individual to disregard
the effect of expungement under

request an individual to disregard
the effect of expungement under

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So my question

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So my question

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So my question to the

the effect of expungement under this
bill. So my question to the chair,

bill. So my question to the chair,
to the minister in the

bill. So my question to the chair,
to the minister in the

to the minister in the chair is
around

to the minister in the chair is
around

to the minister in the chair is
around the problem

to the minister in the chair is
around the problem

to the minister in the chair is
around the problem definition around

to the minister in the chair is
around the problem definition around

around the problem definition around
that

around the problem definition around

around the problem definition around

around the problem definition around

around the problem definition around

around the problem definition around

circumstances where in actual cases
where

circumstances where in actual cases
where it

circumstances where in actual cases
where it

circumstances where in actual cases
where it was concerned

circumstances where in actual cases
where it was concerned this

circumstances where in actual cases
where it was concerned this kind of

circumstances where in actual cases
where it was concerned this kind of

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour would

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour would

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour would occur

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour would occur and

where it was concerned this kind of
behaviour would occur and

behaviour would occur and also what
would be

behaviour would occur and also what
would be the

behaviour would occur and also what
would be the process

behaviour would occur and also what
would be the process for

behaviour would occur and also what
would be the process for actually

behaviour would occur and also what
would be the process for actually

would be the process for actually
enacting

would be the process for actually
enacting that

would be the process for actually

would be the process for actually

would be the process for actually

thought that went into that and I
will

thought that went into that and I
will remind

thought that went into that and I
will remind the

thought that went into that and I
will remind the

thought that went into that and I
will remind the House

thought that went into that and I
will remind the House that

thought that went into that and I
will remind the House that

thought that went into that and I
will remind the House that clause

will remind the House that clause 13
(a) has two

will remind the House that clause 13
(a) has two parts

will remind the House that clause 13
(a) has two parts to it

will remind the House that clause 13
(a) has two parts to it

(a) has two parts to it and the
first

(a) has two parts to it and the
first

(a) has two parts to it and the
first part, the person

(a) has two parts to it and the
first part, the person

(a) has two parts to it and the
first part, the person commits an

(a) has two parts to it and the
first part, the person commits an

first part, the person commits an
offence if that person

first part, the person commits an
offence if that person

first part, the person commits an
offence if that person requires or

first part, the person commits an
offence if that person requires or

offence if that person requires or
requests that

offence if that person requires or
requests that

offence if that person requires or
requests that an individual

offence if that person requires or
requests that an individual

requests that an individual
disregards

requests that an individual
disregards the

requests that an individual
disregards the effective expungement

requests that an individual
disregards the effective expungement

disregards the effective expungement
under the act, when

disregards the effective expungement
under the act, when

disregards the effective expungement
under the act, when answering

under the act, when answering a
question about

under the act, when answering a
question about

question about the individual's
criminal

question about the individual's
criminal

question about the individual's
criminal history

question about the individual's
criminal history or

question about the individual's
criminal history or

question about the individual's
criminal history or disclosing

criminal history or disclosing
information

criminal history or disclosing
information

criminal history or disclosing
information concerning convictions

criminal history or disclosing
information concerning convictions

information concerning convictions
of the individual or both

information concerning convictions
of the individual or both

of the individual or both or that
they

of the individual or both or that
they

of the individual or both or that
they disregard

they disregard the effective
expungement

they disregard the effective
expungement under

they disregard the effective
expungement under this act.

they disregard the effective
expungement under this act. So

they disregard the effective
expungement under this act. So it

expungement under this act. So it
sounds

expungement under this act. So it
sounds as if it

expungement under this act. So it
sounds as if it

expungement under this act. So it
sounds as if it is

expungement under this act. So it
sounds as if it is blatant disregard

sounds as if it is blatant disregard
for

sounds as if it is blatant disregard
for this legislation,

sounds as if it is blatant disregard
for this legislation,

sounds as if it is blatant disregard
for this legislation, what it stands

sounds as if it is blatant disregard
for this legislation, what it stands

for this legislation, what it stands
for and there

for this legislation, what it stands
for and there is

for this legislation, what it stands
for and there is still the

for this legislation, what it stands
for and there is still the

for and there is still the prejudice
that exists

for and there is still the prejudice
that exists partly

for and there is still the prejudice
that exists partly

for and there is still the prejudice
that exists partly in

that exists partly in this
community, where there

that exists partly in this
community, where there are

that exists partly in this
community, where there are people

that exists partly in this
community, where there are people

community, where there are people
who

community, where there are people
who would disregard and

community, where there are people
who would disregard and if

community, where there are people
who would disregard and if they did

community, where there are people
who would disregard and if they did

who would disregard and if they did
p then, as

who would disregard and if they did
p then, as

who would disregard and if they did
p then, as point two, that

who would disregard and if they did
p then, as point two, that

who would disregard and if they did
p then, as point two, that a

p then, as point two, that a person
commits

p then, as point two, that a person
commits

p then, as point two, that a person
commits an offence, is liable

p then, as point two, that a person
commits an offence, is liable

p then, as point two, that a person
commits an offence, is liable to a

p then, as point two, that a person
commits an offence, is liable to a

commits an offence, is liable to a
conviction

commits an offence, is liable to a
conviction on a fine not

commits an offence, is liable to a
conviction on a fine not

commits an offence, is liable to a
conviction on a fine not exceeding

conviction on a fine not exceeding

conviction on a fine not exceeding

conviction on a fine not exceeding

into how that would be enacted and
what

into how that would be enacted and
what would

into how that would be enacted and
what would the

into how that would be enacted and
what would the recourse be. If

into how that would be enacted and
what would the recourse be. If

into how that would be enacted and
what would the recourse be. If they

what would the recourse be. If they
wanted

what would the recourse be. If they
wanted to get their

what would the recourse be. If they
wanted to get their

what would the recourse be. If they
wanted to get their conviction

what would the recourse be. If they
wanted to get their conviction they

wanted to get their conviction they
have

wanted to get their conviction they
have

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply,

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply, am

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply, am I correct,

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply, am I correct,

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply, am I correct, to the

wanted to get their conviction they
have to apply, am I correct, to the

have to apply, am I correct, to the
minister and how

have to apply, am I correct, to the
minister and how

have to apply, am I correct, to the
minister and how do

have to apply, am I correct, to the
minister and how do you

minister and how do you get that
offence

minister and how do you get that
offence

minister and how do you get that

minister and how do you get that

through the minister to be referred
to

through the minister to be referred
to the court or

through the minister to be referred
to the court or

through the minister to be referred
to the court or is there some other

to the court or is there some other

to the court or is there some other

to the court or is there some other

question I have for the chair on
this

question I have for the chair on
this bill.

question I have for the chair on
this bill. I

question I have for the chair on
this bill. I

question I have for the chair on
this bill. I certainly

question I have for the chair on
this bill. I certainly am not

this bill. I certainly am not
disagreeing

this bill. I certainly am not
disagreeing with

this bill. I certainly am not
disagreeing with

this bill. I certainly am not
disagreeing with clause 13

this bill. I certainly am not
disagreeing with clause 13

disagreeing with clause 13 (a), it
obviously

disagreeing with clause 13 (a), it
obviously

disagreeing with clause 13 (a), it
obviously showed good thinking by

disagreeing with clause 13 (a), it
obviously showed good thinking by

obviously showed good thinking by
the

obviously showed good thinking by
the select

obviously showed good thinking by
the select committee members, but

obviously showed good thinking by
the select committee members, but

the select committee members, but I,
on reading

the select committee members, but I,
on reading

the select committee members, but I,
on reading through it, and

the select committee members, but I,
on reading through it, and

on reading through it, and of course
not having

on reading through it, and of course
not having

on reading through it, and of course
not having been at the

on reading through it, and of course
not having been at the

not having been at the select
committee, am

not having been at the select
committee, am unsure

not having been at the select
committee, am unsure about

not having been at the select
committee, am unsure about how

committee, am unsure about how that
actually played out.

committee, am unsure about how that
actually played out.

committee, am unsure about how that
actually played out. Other

actually played out. Other than
that,

actually played out. Other than
that,

actually played out. Other than
that, this is t

actually played out. Other than
that, this is t

that, this is t other than having
that

that, this is t other than having
that question

that, this is t other than having
that question answered, this

that, this is t other than having
that question answered, this

that, this is t other than having
that question answered, this is

that, this is t other than having
that question answered, this is an

that, this is t other than having
that question answered, this is an

that question answered, this is an
extremely important

that question answered, this is an
extremely important

extremely important piece of
legislation,

extremely important piece of
legislation,

extremely important piece of
legislation, part

legislation, part of the healing
process. I

legislation, part of the healing
process. I

legislation, part of the healing
process. I commend it to the House.

legislation, part of the healing
process. I commend it to the House.

process. I commend it to the House.
I

process. I commend it to the House.
I call

process. I commend it to the House.
I call Dr

process. I commend it to the House.
I call Dr Duncan Webb. Madam

process. I commend it to the House.
I call Dr Duncan Webb. Madam

process. I commend it to the House.
I call Dr Duncan Webb. Madam Chair

I call Dr Duncan Webb. Madam Chair
it's a short point I

I call Dr Duncan Webb. Madam Chair
it's a short point I

it's a short point I would like to
put

it's a short point I would like to
put

it's a short point I would like to
put to the minister. It

it's a short point I would like to
put to the minister. It

it's a short point I would like to
put to the minister. It is around

it's a short point I would like to
put to the minister. It is around

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5 of

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5 of the act

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5 of the act

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5 of the act which defines

put to the minister. It is around
clause 5 of the act which defines

clause 5 of the act which defines
historical homosexual offences.

clause 5 of the act which defines
historical homosexual offences. My

historical homosexual offences. My
concern is that

historical homosexual offences. My
concern is that

historical homosexual offences. My
concern is that there are

historical homosexual offences. My
concern is that there are a

concern is that there are a number
of offences

concern is that there are a number
of offences

concern is that there are a number
of offences which

concern is that there are a number
of offences which may

concern is that there are a number
of offences which may have been

concern is that there are a number
of offences which may have been

concern is that there are a number
of offences which may have been led

of offences which may have been led
to

of offences which may have been led
to

of offences which may have been led
to conviction but which

of offences which may have been led
to conviction but which

of offences which may have been led
to conviction but which don't fall

of offences which may have been led
to conviction but which don't fall

to conviction but which don't fall
within