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34C3 preroll music
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Herald (H): Let me introduce: It's Sir[br]Wombat and Nero Lapislucis. So, give them
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a warm welcome and everybody is interested[br]in how to get the stuff done.
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Nero (N):[br]unaudible
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We are going to present our juice press,[br]which is this gorgeous instrument you can
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see over there. And then we will talk[br]about the fermentation vessel
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you will need if you want to build one[br]yourself. And we will explain shortly
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again how you can create alcohol out of[br]the yeast and the fruit juice. Afterwards
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we will present the model of a still which[br]you can see over there on the desk.
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Sir Wombat (W): By model we mean it doesn't[br]actually work, it only looks like it.
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N: It's a kind of a hypothetical operation[br]of a miniature still. Afterwards you will
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get to know an alternative method of[br]getting high percent alcohol, which is the
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ice rifing. This is that. So, who are we?[br]I'm Nero, I am kind of a professional
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viking. Why am I presenting this talk? I[br]was studying abroad in Norway and I was
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too broke to buy the beer, so I had to[br]find some solutions and I started making
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the wine. And Sir Wombat over there is an[br]electrical engineer and he's just trying
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to build stuff since forever. Let's start[br]with the juice press. I don't know - Do we
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have the camera? Or are we doing it[br]without?
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Laughter[br]W: I can just hold it up and maybe you see it.
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N: So basically what we have is a wooden frame
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and then there is a car jack attached to it.
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With that we press this kind of[br]wooden block down. And then we have on the
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right hand side it's like this wood part[br]which has a special shape so the juice can
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run off. This is on the lower side. And[br]there is the fruit between it. And with
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the car jack you get lots of pressure.[br]Actually if you boil the mash you can just
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use the kitchen towel. But it's a lot of[br]work. So this is actually kind of nice.
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Inaudible question from the audience[br]N: Yeah, you can do it with whole apples.
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You can cut them beforehand: You can put[br]them in the oven for a little while and it
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makes it a lot easier. I don't know, I[br]think it's easier if you kind of boil them
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or put them in the oven beforehand and cut[br]them. Then you get a little bit more juice.
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Because what you see when you try[br]this is that you have a lot of work.
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And a lot of fruit for actually very little[br]juice. Yeah, it's a lot of work
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W: Inaudible[br]N: The thing is that the fruit juice, what
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is useful for the alcohol, it's basically[br]just the sugar water. You can cheat which
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is actually not allowed, but in theory you[br]might cheat and add sugar to your fruit
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juice, then the yeast has more kind of[br]fruit and more basics to produce the
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alcohol from. So you can add molasses to[br]the fruit juice and that will increase the
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alcohol outcome of your molasses. This is[br]in basics the process you just heard
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about. You have the sugar water and yeast.[br]And the yeast is working in the sugar
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water and by that creating alcohol and[br]CO2. That's why you need the fermentation
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vessel, which we will talk about in the[br]next part. You can basically just use
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normal yeast from the supermarket. You[br]could also use some yeast cultures which
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are on the fruits. There are also some[br]kind of hippie wine producers which just
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use the apples like they are and use the[br]cultures which already are on them. But
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it's better to use this specialized yeast,[br]because you have optimal alcohol outcome
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and lower risk that there are other[br]bacteria evolving. What you don't want is
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that there is oxygen coming into your[br]fermentation process, because then what
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you get isn't alcohol but vinegar. It just[br]kind of tastes disgusting and it's not
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what you make it for. That's why we are[br]building the fermentation vessel. It's
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basically just a mechanism to keep the air[br]away. These are the ingredients you will
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need to do. On the left hand side is my[br]first experiment, on the right side is Sir
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Wombat's. He has this special thing that[br]he puts a pen in a kind of peanut butter
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jar beforehand so the whole thing sticks[br]better. You don't really need to do that
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if your hose is kind of thick enough. I[br]had this guzzling hose and it worked just
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fine. You have to fix the hose in your[br]fermentation vessel and in this kind of
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jar which is filled with water. You can[br]just use glue for that but it needs to be
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airproof. What's happening is the CO2[br]which comes from the fermentation process
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can leave the vessel through the hose. So[br]it just goes into the glass of water. The
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effect is that no oxigen can come in and[br]go the other way around. So it's really
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simple. It's useful to have a fermentation[br]starter. For that you start with
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activating the dried yeast. The thing with[br]that is, that you give the yeast, which
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you want to have a good life in there, a[br]head start ahead of all other bacterias or
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kind of microbes which would want to[br]evolve in there. It's not that important
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that you keep the air out because you[br]don't keep it for that long. What you do
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is: You take the yeast you want, you put[br]sugar in there and you put the molasses in
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there. You just give it a head start with[br]a lot of sugar and you keep it in there
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for kind of about 12 hours. Then you put[br]it in the fermentation vessel and add the
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rest of the molasses. So it's not really[br]in there for that long. Because of that
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it's not that important to keep the air[br]out. It doesn't have that much contact.
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Here you can see the fermentation process.[br]This is kind of a peanut butter jar and
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there is the air and CO2 coming out. It[br]looks like that when the fermentation is
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running on high it can get a lot faster.[br]But most of the time - It's also this nice
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blubbing sound. If you keep it in your[br]room - you will have a good night. How
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will you know when your fermentation ends?[br]Some of the yeast will die. You will
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notice this at the bottom of the[br]fermentation vessel. It will just float
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down. You will also notice that the[br]fermentation process is getting a lot
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slower. Why does this happen? Either you[br]have already too much alcohol for the
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yeast to survive. This depends a bit on[br]the kind of yeast you are using, but
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mostly it's about 15% you can get. Or[br]maybe there's just no sugar left. You
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don't really want that to happen because[br]then it doesn't really taste that good.
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But basically it's also a possibility if[br]you just want the alcohol. Just remember
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that you shouldn't bottle it before it's[br]totally finished because there's... As
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long as there is still some fermentation[br]going on, there is also CO2 coming out and
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your bottle might explode. You don't want[br]that. But if you continue with distilling
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the whole thing it doesn't really matter[br]because you work with it and you don't
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bottle it. So what do we do now? We have[br]the finished wine in the fermentation
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vessel and you have the dead yeast on the[br]ground. You should be careful when you
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fill it in bottels or another vessel,[br]because that yeast tastes kind of nasty.
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So you should siphon it off. You can also[br]pour it but then you should take a lot of
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time and be very careful with it. Yes, to[br]measure the alcohol content which will be
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as said, explained before about 15% in the[br]mash there's different tools. For the mash
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we have the vinometer. If you want to[br]measure it in the steel output you have
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the hydrometer.This is when I give over to[br]my friend. Yeah, sugar is a problem in
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measuring actually because it confuses the[br]instrument - both of them. So you should
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consider this. And actually it's not[br]really that fancy so you can get both of
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them for like 10€. It's useful to have. We[br]had that already. The results you get with
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the fruit wine is normally between 6% and[br]13%. 13 is already kind of high. If you
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just use the process like I explained it,[br]it's probably a bit less. So that's
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actually why you would want to destill it[br]afterwards. W: So we're talking about what
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would happen if you'd want to build a[br]still. We're not talking about an actual
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still. We're talking about a model that[br]looks like it could work, but doesn't.
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Because as we said - we wouldn't break any[br]rules, and Stefan said it's not allowed.
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It's not legal to do so. The thing to[br]build such a model - such a home sized
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model, not an semi-professional one, you[br]don't need all the... like 5000€ was the
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cheaptest professional one we talked[br]about. For such a tiny model you could get
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away with 75€ if you're really resourceful[br]like using an old pressure cooker from the
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GDR. Those are finally the cheapest ones[br]you find on eBay This size is like 10€ -
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it's a nice thing. Some copper pipes you[br]can get in your hardware store. The type
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of copper pipe is used to connect fridges.[br]Like for that fresh water and ice cube
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feature fridges have.[br]unaudible
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The cooling system is just an old canister[br]and some electronics I'll talk about
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later. Let's just get back to the slides.[br]Back to the slides please. Thanks.
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The temperature sensing - we'll talk later[br]about... And then that's it. So you just
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connect the copper pipes like this in a[br]T-form with a cork on top. And the screw
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thing on the bottom to connect it to the[br]lid of the pressure cooker. At that point
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you use like an end cap for the copper[br]pipe, drill a hole into it and connect the
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thinner copper pipe to it. That will go[br]onto the pressure cooker like this. Then
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you need to do some soldering. Most of you[br]probably know how to solder. This another
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kind of soldering. It's the same thing -[br]you use tin and copper and some flux to
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make it flow easier. And not a soldering[br]iron but a blow torch, but that's all the
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difference there is. And then you just[br]drill a hole into your cut open canister,
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push it on there and use lots of glue to[br]make it waterproof - It's no rocket
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science. Then the temperature measurement[br]we want to have that because in theory you
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need a very precise measurement. In[br]practice it didn't seem like we couldn't
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live without it, but it's very interesting[br]and it's helpful. How do we do that? Just
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use on of those cheap integrated digital[br]temperature sensors, a Raspberry Pi, a
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real time clock to date the measurement[br]protocol - that's just nice to have - and
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a bit of python script. Mine is ugly, so[br]it's not published, but everybody can do
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it. It's like a day of work that will[br]output a small website that shows the
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current temperature graph. You can click[br]on this link and download the current
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temperature, like all the measurements as[br]an Excel-file, and you can even download
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former measurements. And that's why we[br]need the realtime clock so that we don't
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start a chaos. That's all there is. If you[br]have WiFi that's nice because you can
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leave the room well it's running. But[br]yeah, you see something is not going well
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and then you rush back. So you probably[br]stay with it anyway. Now, this is how a
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hypothetical run-through would look like.[br]A tablet in the background, showing the
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temperatures, the WiFi-router ...[br]Laughter
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It's a really great guy that he puts up[br]with this. So yeah, you open the lid, you
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put in your mash. Remember this is only a[br]model. Then if your pressure cooker has a
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broken locking-mechanism you use some[br]chains and a screw to keep the lid closed.
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It's not as critical as actual pressure[br]cooker operation.
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Laughter and applause[br]Yeah. It's not as critical as actual
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pressure cooker operation because there[br]will be no pressure. If pressure builds up
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you made some big mistake like plugging up[br]the cooling pipe. If you thought the chain
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was funny then come around and show the[br]safety valve. it's like... yeah... as As I
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said it's all cheap and made up. But it[br]works. No, it doesn't.
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Laughter[br]It could work, so, as I said, you put mash
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in, close the lid, turn on the gas stove.[br]It's a gas stove because with no other
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kind of stove you can regulate the power as fast - maybe with an induction heater - but
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that doesn't work with a GDR pressure cooker. Then you started heating. At some
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point evaporation will start, it will go up[br]here, pass the thermometers so that we can
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see the gas temperature. And then the gas[br]will run in here in the cooler. And there
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it hopefully condensates so that we don't[br]blow up the operation. Yeah, we put some
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great effort in into our non-functional[br]model. We even painted it to look chalked. (Laughter)
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There is another thermometer in here so[br]that we see that the cooling system is as
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cold as it's supposed to be.
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And then if[br]it would work the alcohol would drop out
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here and run over the last temperature[br]sensor so we can see
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how warm it is.
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Because if it gets too warm it will be[br]vapor and that's bad.
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And just for the fun of it there's an
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additional temperature[br]sensor on the connector board that's this
0:17:22.569,0:17:30.340
one here. Yeah. It's just to measure the[br]room temperature.So, yeah, now we come to
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a totally made up graph of an operation.
0:17:35.584,0:17:40.039
The red line is the gas temperature that
0:17:40.039,0:17:45.720
is always the most important one. Because[br]at the current gas temperature, you can
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see what, or you can at least guess, what[br]chemical is currently running ...
0:17:54.059,0:17:56.829
evaporating.
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The big plateau you can see[br]at the top that is where the alcohol would
0:18:03.919,0:18:10.200
be, assuming that for a long time there[br]would be alcohol coming out of the mash,
0:18:10.200,0:18:18.000
that turns into a plateau. The orange[br]temperature is the air temperature. The
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green line is what the output temperature[br]would be. At the beginning it's something
0:18:24.150,0:18:32.500
like the room temperature. And then at the[br]point where actual product starts dripping
0:18:32.500,0:18:40.179
out it cools down to the cooling water[br]temperature and then running through it at
0:18:40.179,0:18:46.810
some point it will start separating because[br]the cooling can't keep up because we don't
0:18:46.810,0:18:52.169
have a run-through cooler, we just have[br]water in there, and that will start to
0:18:52.169,0:18:59.500
heat up. The ticks at the end, where the[br]temperature suddenly drops, yeah, that
0:18:59.500,0:19:05.630
could be caused by having too high[br]temperature and too much alcohol running
0:19:05.630,0:19:11.690
through the cooler. So then you'd turn[br]down the heat a bit and it would start to
0:19:11.690,0:19:16.471
drop, and then you turn back up and it[br]starts rising again. And at the end of a
0:19:16.471,0:19:22.290
run-through, when you open the lid again[br]and the cold air comes there all the
0:19:22.290,0:19:29.500
temperatures drop again. And you're done[br]with it. So as I said, it's all
0:19:29.500,0:19:37.450
hypothetical. And the hypothetical results[br]could be something like ... Stop! There
0:19:37.450,0:19:46.899
was this methanol thing. So, with a still[br]of this size, you won't get any dangerous
0:19:46.899,0:19:59.070
amounts of methanol. Yeah, we just...To be[br]safe we drop the first 15 ml. We dispose
0:19:59.070,0:20:02.910
of them properly by burning them on the[br]ground.
0:20:02.910,0:20:03.160
laughter
0:20:03.160,0:20:14.440
Then, what could the output look like?
0:20:14.440,0:20:21.600
If you would do this, it'd be a[br]great idea to separate the output in 100
0:20:21.600,0:20:26.159
ml jars and measure each separately, so[br]that you can follow what happens.
0:20:26.159,0:20:34.590
And it could be like the first jar would be maybe[br]58%; maybe the 9th jar would be 35%,
0:20:34.590,0:20:39.309
because the higher the temperature gets[br]the more water evaporates and so the
0:20:39.309,0:20:41.430
alcohol rate is lower.
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Of those six[br]glasses maybe the first six would be
0:20:49.070,0:20:55.500
usable, because the afterrun that has the[br]stuff that evaporates at the higher
0:20:55.500,0:21:04.049
temperatures would taste bad. And if you[br]wanted higher percentages, you could just
0:21:04.049,0:21:11.730
still it again and then you'd maybe get up[br]to 78%. As Francisco already said, we
0:21:11.730,0:21:20.190
measure the output of the still - we would[br]measure it - with the hydrometer.
0:21:20.190,0:21:29.179
And then 78% percent is nothing you ever drink, you[br]only taste alcohol and nothing of the
0:21:29.179,0:21:36.100
fruit, so if you had a still output with[br]78%, you would dilute it with water to
0:21:36.100,0:21:38.622
get it to 40.
0:21:38.622,0:21:47.269
Now, this is illegal, so we[br]don't do it, but there is another method
0:21:47.269,0:21:56.590
which is kind of interesting. It basically[br]uses the same principle, just it's not
0:21:56.590,0:22:02.510
separate boiling points, but separate[br]freezing points. And then, to use this,
0:22:02.510,0:22:09.480
you put alcohol -maybe red wine - into a[br]plastic bottle, put it into your freezer,
0:22:09.480,0:22:15.039
let it freeze through, and then you turn[br]it around, and the first stuff that will
0:22:15.039,0:22:22.990
drop out is alcohol. Kind of an[br]interesting picture is this here, because
0:22:22.990,0:22:31.020
we have liquid dropping down, which is so[br]cold that the condensation on the other
0:22:31.020,0:22:37.490
vessel freezes. So, we know the liquid is[br]something with a freezing point well below
0:22:37.490,0:22:43.659
the freezing point of water. If you[br]measure this, you'll see that the output
0:22:43.659,0:22:56.299
has something between 20% or 40% when[br]starting with a red wine of 10%, so it
0:22:56.299,0:23:02.630
really works. And I found it kind of[br]interesting, because - except some crazy
0:23:02.630,0:23:07.430
guy in Bavaria -, I don't know of anybody[br]actually using that. And that guy uses it
0:23:07.430,0:23:14.269
to the create world's strongest beer with[br]like 58% and it's still legally beer
0:23:14.269,0:23:18.149
because of German laws.[br]Laughter
0:23:18.149,0:23:28.049
Here we see... That's the stuff that[br]stayed in the bottle, after it unfroze.
0:23:28.049,0:23:33.840
And that's the stuff that dripped out[br]below, so if you put a light behind it,
0:23:33.840,0:23:41.850
you see that's the one side is much[br]darker, so apparently the pigment is
0:23:41.850,0:23:50.429
soluble in alcohol. It's just an[br]interesting fact we saw, too. Well, that's
0:23:50.429,0:23:57.250
what we did. So in conclusion, it's[br]totally possible to build a non-functional
0:23:57.250,0:24:04.740
model of a still with hardware-store[br]parts. Running this... risks exist, but
0:24:04.740,0:24:09.650
are manageable. Watch out for proper[br]cooling; with such a cooler, it's just...
0:24:09.650,0:24:16.940
make sure that there is water in it before[br]you start it. Methanol poisoning can be
0:24:16.940,0:24:27.580
prevented by using a clean mash like mash[br]you'd drink unstilled. And discarding the
0:24:27.580,0:24:36.000
first 15 ml. And if you had something like[br]this and say you tried to still whisky,
0:24:36.000,0:24:43.559
you should look out for foaming, because[br]if you try to run it too fast, maybe the
0:24:43.559,0:24:51.639
mash would foam up and clog your still and[br]it'd be bad. So yeah, don't do that. In
0:24:51.639,0:24:55.830
conclusion, it's great fun...[br]theoretically.
0:24:55.830,0:25:00.380
Laughter[br]And yes, do not do this. It's illegal.
0:25:00.380,0:25:02.140
Thank you.
0:25:02.140,0:25:11.390
Applause
0:25:11.390,0:25:17.549
H: What a fabulous, practical[br]introduction. So we have now five minutes
0:25:17.549,0:25:25.380
for Q and A... Everybody who wants to ask[br]a question please go to the microphones,
0:25:25.380,0:25:35.799
and please stay in the room for this five[br]minutes. If there are any... Keep in mind,
0:25:35.799,0:25:42.389
this time everybody has to go out on this[br]side. So is there any question in the
0:25:42.389,0:25:42.639
room? Microphone 1 please.
0:25:42.639,0:25:50.019
[br]Mic1: Yes, thank you for the talk. Thank
0:25:50.019,0:25:57.630
you for the ideas. Do you know how the[br]legal aspects are in Switzerland?
0:25:57.630,0:26:00.869
Restrained laughter
0:26:00.869,0:26:06.049
Stefan (S): In Switzerland you guys are
0:26:06.049,0:26:10.049
actually quite well off, because you are[br]allowed to have small stills until the
0:26:10.049,0:26:18.120
capacity of 5 litres. We have until the[br]end of the 2070ies that 0.5 l, which is
0:26:18.120,0:26:24.360
basically useless. You can try it once,[br]but for each run you get maybe a shot of
0:26:24.360,0:26:30.639
usable liquor. In Switzerland, you have 5[br]l and then you get at least some... yeah,
0:26:30.639,0:26:36.039
200 ml of usable spirits, and this is[br]actually fun to tinker with. This is
0:26:36.039,0:26:40.659
something you and your fellows can, well,[br]have a decent evening.
0:26:40.659,0:26:45.470
H: Microphone 5.[br]Mic5: Yeah, so... When I saw the
0:26:45.470,0:26:50.409
electronics, that's usually not so safe to[br]drink from lead and everything. So, do you
0:26:50.409,0:26:55.649
have any tips for how to solder, so it's[br]safe for drinking?
0:26:55.649,0:27:04.989
W: Yeah, I forgot to mention it, we used[br]lead free solder. That's a really great
0:27:04.989,0:27:12.590
comment of you. And I looked it up and[br]solder, you can find it in the hardware
0:27:12.590,0:27:18.703
store next to the copper tubes that is[br]lead-free. But check that to be sure.
0:27:18.703,0:27:22.619
You don't want lead into your spirits.
0:27:22.619,0:27:24.059
H: Microphone 1.
0:27:24.059,0:27:30.710
Mic1: Would you do the cooling per air[br]flow instead of water?
0:27:30.710,0:27:39.000
W: I've seen online some people who did[br]that with a construction that looked kind
0:27:39.000,0:27:45.909
of like a CPU cooler attached to something[br]which had the vaporized alcohol run
0:27:45.909,0:27:56.899
through it. I mean, it'd be illegal to[br]try, so I haven't and... But this guy
0:27:56.899,0:28:03.890
apparently has and it worked for him, so..[br]Yeah. But I don't know how you'd
0:28:03.890,0:28:10.110
construct the copper block which you[br]attach to the CPU cooler, so there's that.
0:28:10.110,0:28:16.669
S: I've seen silver etchings in really,[br]really old manuscripts that were using
0:28:16.669,0:28:22.570
just air to cool down, but... well, that's[br]technology 500 years ago that says "Yeah,
0:28:22.570,0:28:25.778
use water."
0:28:25.778,0:28:27.450
H: Microphone 5.
0:28:27.450,0:28:37.889
Mic5: You showed the glass part still and[br]you said this could not be purchased after
0:28:37.889,0:28:44.100
the 1st of January, right? But if you just[br]purchase the single parts, because it's
0:28:44.100,0:28:48.179
standard lab equipment, is this also[br]illegal?
0:28:48.179,0:28:52.529
S: Yes, I mean, you don't purchase a still[br]per se, do you?
0:28:52.529,0:28:55.659
Mic5: Exactly, it's standard glass...[br]S: I don't think this is gonna be a
0:28:55.659,0:29:01.429
problem, but, you know there's laboratory[br]equipments and they sell you a still made
0:29:01.429,0:29:08.799
from glass for training distillation...[br]And this costs some 250 euros and they
0:29:08.799,0:29:14.960
sell you the same exact part this still is[br]made of for cheaper. So basically, order 3
0:29:14.960,0:29:19.809
or times...3 or 4 times different[br]equipment parts, maybe from different...
0:29:19.809,0:29:24.720
And...I mean, this is ridiculous. Really,[br]it is.
0:29:24.720,0:29:26.559
Mic5: Thanks.
0:29:26.559,0:29:27.919
H: Okay, Mikrophone 1.
0:29:27.919,0:29:32.720
Mic1: Yeah, hi. Thank you for your[br]theoretical explanation. I have one
0:29:32.720,0:29:35.700
question but first I just wanted to[br]mention, that you can build all this
0:29:35.700,0:29:41.640
without programming. You can buy a[br]physical thing to measure the temperature,
0:29:41.640,0:29:46.850
so if anybody is afraid because of that[br]part. And than yeah, my question is there
0:29:46.850,0:29:52.690
a reason why you don't use or just[br]mentioned, turbo yeast, stuff like
0:29:52.690,0:29:58.880
that where you can reach 20 percents in[br]two days. Is it not that tasty or stuff?
0:29:58.880,0:30:04.700
N: Yeah, I think actually we just used the[br]first one, we got hands on, didn't we?
0:30:04.700,0:30:10.440
For the first experiments. I mean, you could[br]try it but then you always have, it has
0:30:10.440,0:30:13.821
negative parts, so... maybe it's the[br]taste, maybe it's something else.
0:30:13.821,0:30:19.637
But I mean, I wouldn't claim that you [br]achieve high quality taste with
0:30:19.637,0:30:21.652
what we just showed.
0:30:21.652,0:30:24.850
S: I can answer one part for the
0:30:24.850,0:30:30.019
"Abfindungsbrennerei", you could use turbo[br]yeast, but turbo yeast is something...
0:30:30.019,0:30:34.919
I'm not really sure about the translation. It[br]is called "Hefenährsalze" which is salts,
0:30:34.919,0:30:38.975
that you need, to actually have an[br]environment for this turbo yeast. And these
0:30:38.975,0:30:42.964
"Hefenährsalze" are unfortunely not[br]allowed in "Abfindungsbrennerei".
0:30:42.964,0:30:47.820
So usally you don't...you don't use turbo[br]yeast and you don't actually need it for
0:30:47.820,0:30:52.090
fruit spirits. It's okay, if you want to[br]make grain spirits but you know the higher
0:30:52.090,0:30:59.010
the yeast ferments the less taste and[br]scent remains in the destillate.
0:30:59.010,0:31:03.129
So we won't have taste otherwise we could just[br]buy vodka in the store.
0:31:03.129,0:31:09.749
H: Okay, Mikrophone 5, please.[br]Mic5: Thanks again for your talk.
0:31:09.749,0:31:15.889
Regarding the cooling. Is it necessary to[br]cool it with room temperature water or why
0:31:15.889,0:31:23.440
not chuck in some ice cubes or crushed ice[br]to keep the temperature lower or hinder
0:31:23.440,0:31:26.429
the rising of the temperature in the[br]cooling vessel?
0:31:26.429,0:31:32.259
W: Well let's say we had run this[br]hypothetical operation in our minds
0:31:32.259,0:31:38.160
multiple times. Maybe the first time we[br]had tried it with ice cubes and then
0:31:38.160,0:31:47.080
started exchanging the water. Maybe we had[br]a few times thought about running it and
0:31:47.080,0:31:52.759
using just tap water and exchanging the[br]tap water multiple times. And then maybe
0:31:52.759,0:31:59.289
in our minds one time we forgot to change[br]the water and it still would have worked,
0:31:59.289,0:32:07.640
so we made up all further operations just[br]with a bucket of water and not changing
0:32:07.640,0:32:13.279
it, so yeah. Point is, that's the easiest[br]way and it works.
0:32:13.279,0:32:17.850
M5: Excellent.[br]H: And I saw there is some question from
0:32:17.850,0:32:20.850
the internet.[br]Signal angel: Exactly. The internet wants
0:32:20.850,0:32:29.950
to know if there is a limit or a legal[br]limit to the freeze destilation of the ice
0:32:29.950,0:32:35.330
rifing process?[br]W: I tried to look it up, but I didn't
0:32:35.330,0:32:43.889
find anything about it. So, maybe there is[br]a thing that if you...
0:32:43.889,0:32:50.440
Let's just stay with the beer guy from[br]Bavaria. The customs actually have a page
0:32:50.440,0:32:58.749
about producing beer at home. You can do[br]that legally in Germany and the first 100
0:32:58.749,0:33:04.960
liters are tax free, so you can just do[br]that. So, yeah, then you have 100 liters
0:33:04.960,0:33:09.610
of beer and you start concentrating them[br]and when you are done with that it gets
0:33:09.610,0:33:16.549
complicated. So, I guess that's the limit.[br]And then that guy probably just taxes the
0:33:16.549,0:33:21.600
further beer and that's how he does it.[br]N: But then you don't have to register
0:33:21.600,0:33:26.250
your freezer at the tax office so maybe[br]people won't be that eager to check.
0:33:26.250,0:33:31.230
H: Ok then the last two questions,[br]Microphone 1.
0:33:31.230,0:33:36.980
Mic1: Okay, so my question is about the[br]freezing method as well. What is about the
0:33:36.980,0:33:41.539
methanol for the freezing method. Is there[br]some way to get rid of this, or is it
0:33:41.539,0:33:47.519
really unnecessary?[br]W: Well, as I said the stuff in the
0:33:47.519,0:33:54.350
pictures was red wine from Aldi because[br]you don't experiment with expensive stuff.
0:33:54.350,0:34:03.570
And if I drink a whole bottle of Aldi red[br]wine, nothing bad happens to me. So I
0:34:03.570,0:34:08.260
guess if I take any part of a bottle of[br]red wine from Aldi, nothing bad will
0:34:08.260,0:34:10.180
happen, too. So there's that.
0:34:10.180,0:34:15.470
Mic1: So there shouldn't be [br]methanol in the orginal stuff.
0:34:15.470,0:34:20.588
A: There probably will be but less [br]enough so that it's not a problem.
0:34:20.588,0:34:22.150
[br]H: Okay.
0:34:22.150,0:34:27.540
S:The thing about the methanol is, if I'm[br]allowed to add, methanol comes from the
0:34:27.540,0:34:32.962
pectines. Pectines are basically the[br]building substance of the cells.
0:34:32.962,0:34:39.020
But if you have juice or wine we already pressed [br]it down and the pectins stay in the stuff
0:34:39.020,0:34:45.750
we throw away and so in the juice and in[br]the wine that we cool down so there is
0:34:45.750,0:34:51.400
very little methanol in it. That is[br]different if we make a mash and have all
0:34:51.400,0:34:56.102
the cell residue still in the mash, then[br]we have the methanol in this mash.
0:34:56.110,0:34:59.042
And so we have it in the destillate.
0:34:59.042,0:35:02.070
H: Okay, the last question, [br]microphone one please.
0:35:02.070,0:35:08.605
Mic1: Hi. Thanks for a great talk. My questions [br]are around the head, hearts and tail,
0:35:08.605,0:35:13.190
the hacked distilling method that, [br]I gather, you pretty much did
0:35:13.190,0:35:17.200
what you took for second[br]third, fourth part of it, and you divided
0:35:17.200,0:35:23.940
it up like that. But in the craft[br]distillery, how do you do to use it, but
0:35:23.940,0:35:29.100
controlling the temperature of the[br]evaporation and the stilling liquid, or
0:35:29.100,0:35:33.889
do you also do it by breaking into segments? [br]What's the technique you used to separate?
0:35:33.889,0:35:37.100
[br]S: There's actually many roads that lead
0:35:37.100,0:35:42.330
to Rome. So you could basically use this[br]fractioning method that there was
0:35:42.330,0:35:47.355
described here that you just take one liter and [br]one liter and one liter and then you check it
0:35:47.355,0:35:53.200
by smelling and tasting, if it's okay, or[br]if it's not. And then the other way is,
0:35:53.200,0:35:58.520
for example, temperature control. So if[br]you buy a modern still from an experienced
0:35:58.520,0:36:04.470
copper smith, this is made with any types[br]of sensors and that are telling you the
0:36:04.470,0:36:08.240
temperatures, the flow, the alcohol[br]content. So you can basically program your
0:36:08.240,0:36:14.400
still to automatically cut the foreshots[br]and the aftershots. So this is another
0:36:14.400,0:36:19.620
way. Then you could, for example, distill[br]once or twice, and with the first
0:36:19.620,0:36:24.140
distillation, just take every alcohol[br]that's coming out and then collect this
0:36:24.140,0:36:29.380
first run, and then redistill it, and then[br]make your cuts for the heads and the
0:36:29.380,0:36:32.900
tails. And you can make it otherwise it[br]can cut the head and tails in the first
0:36:32.900,0:36:39.780
run, and then just basically concentrate[br]in the redistillation. So there's many
0:36:39.780,0:36:44.020
roads that lead to Rome and you're just[br]gonna find out your way that suits you
0:36:44.020,0:36:52.480
best. But if you start, I would take the[br]fracturing, the fracturing method. Yes.
0:36:52.480,0:36:56.850
Mic1: What was your run, your still on?[br]What technique did you use for your
0:36:56.850,0:37:00.574
business, your still?
0:37:00.574,0:37:04.880
S: You mean my still at home? [br]The craft still that I get on the...?
0:37:04.880,0:37:07.385
Yeah, this is experience.
0:37:07.385,0:37:09.875
So we know the first 1.5 liters[br]is foreshots,
0:37:09.875,0:37:14.577
so we collect those and then we[br]redistill them again. But. Yeah.
0:37:14.577,0:37:20.770
At some time my great-grandfather, most[br]probably found out the way and he taught them
0:37:20.770,0:37:26.414
his son and his son. And I know that I[br]didn't need to get rid of 1.5l of foreshots.
0:37:26.414,0:37:28.800
Mic1: Thank you.[br]S: You are welcome.
0:37:28.800,0:37:33.138
H: Then at the end of[br]this double feature, I expect a very big
0:37:33.138,0:37:41.573
warm applause for Franziska, Andreas,[br]and Stefan
0:37:41.573,0:37:46.320
Applause
0:37:46.320,0:38:11.000
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