1
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:08,220
Hi, I'm Mark Brown and this is Game Maker's
Toolkit - a YouTube series about game design.

2
00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:13,669
A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of speaking
to Evan Hill - a former level designer at

3
00:00:13,669 --> 00:00:18,750
Naughty Dog, who worked on one of my favourite
parts of The Last of Us Part II.

4
00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:24,240
Evan was responsible for a level called The
Birthday Gift: a level about Joel and Ellie's

5
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:30,240
relationship that takes place in a nostalgic
flashback, set between the events of the two games.

6
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,080
Joel: "Happy Birthday, kiddo."

7
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:39,020
So I set up a three-way Discord chat with
me, Evan, and a mirror of my PS4 output - so

8
00:00:39,020 --> 00:00:43,190
he could provide commentary on his level as
I played through it.

9
00:00:43,190 --> 00:00:44,480
And, you know what?

10
00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:48,670
The conversation was so interesting that I
couldn’t think of a better way to do it

11
00:00:48,670 --> 00:00:53,720
justice than to simply share a, uh, heavily
edited version of our chat.

12
00:00:53,720 --> 00:01:00,300
So, without further ado, let's just jump on
in and find out how a level like this gets made.

13
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:13,420
♫ Guitar ♫

14
00:01:13,420 --> 00:01:16,660
Mark: "So how does a level like this begin?

15
00:01:16,660 --> 00:01:22,580
Are you given a brief from Neil about what
the level should be like, and what it should contain?"

16
00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:27,620
Evan: "So for this sequence, and a lot of
sequences, all I got from Neil was two paragraphs.

17
00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:33,079
We had this big Excel spreadsheet of the game
in its totality, what we needed, and there

18
00:01:33,079 --> 00:01:41,740
were two cells dedicated to the museum: we
show that Joel taught Ellie to swim, and we

19
00:01:41,740 --> 00:01:45,119
have the thing in the museum where they confront
each other about the fireflies.

20
00:01:45,119 --> 00:01:46,159
That was basically it.

21
00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:48,860
And from there they basically just said 'go'."

22
00:01:48,860 --> 00:01:54,360
Mark: "And so then are you drawing maps and
sketches, or do you just go straight into

23
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,630
the level creation tools?"

24
00:01:55,630 --> 00:01:58,869
Evan: "I tend to go straight into blockmesh.

25
00:01:58,869 --> 00:02:00,360
Most people at Naughty Dog tend to as well.

26
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,789
One of the kind of truisms is that you only
know if it works if it's in 3D.

27
00:02:03,789 --> 00:02:07,799
The simplest and quickest way is to just jump
into the closest version of the final game."

28
00:02:07,799 --> 00:02:12,110
Mark: "And then in this blockmesh, do you
have it so you can control Ellie with the

29
00:02:12,110 --> 00:02:15,610
PlayStation 4 controller and the same camera
and things like that?"

30
00:02:15,610 --> 00:02:16,610
Evan: "Exactly.

31
00:02:16,610 --> 00:02:18,860
Same camera, same animations.

32
00:02:18,860 --> 00:02:23,640
Getting the exact camera proportions, getting
the exact character controller in there is

33
00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,380
the big reason we do it like that.

34
00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:29,810
You're just able to get a sense of what it
plays like."

35
00:02:29,810 --> 00:02:35,130
Mark: "So the level begins in this outdoor,
very open area.

36
00:02:35,130 --> 00:02:40,380
How do you funnel the player in, and deal
with tricky things like draw distance?"

37
00:02:40,380 --> 00:02:42,810
Evan: "Honestly it's a massive pain.

38
00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:47,850
Like you can kinda see here, the trick is
to try and give the sense of boundlessness

39
00:02:47,850 --> 00:02:50,460
while always still producing natural barriers.

40
00:02:50,460 --> 00:02:53,780
Where it's like even if you were to jump in
the water you'd get the feeling 'I'm not going

41
00:02:53,780 --> 00:02:57,010
to climb over all of that and crest that hill'.

42
00:02:57,010 --> 00:03:03,150
But the big takeaway answer is a lot of smoke
and mirrors, a wonderful art team that knows

43
00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:06,280
to work within those constraints."

44
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,200
Mark: "So the next part is kind of a tutorial
because I think this is the first time we've

45
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,400
seen Ellie swimming, right?"

46
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,150
Evan: "Yes. 
First that Ellie has on-screen swam.

47
00:03:17,150 --> 00:03:21,810
Initially it was going to be an actual swimming
lesson but as we iterated on it we figured,

48
00:03:21,810 --> 00:03:27,180
no, this could actually be a turn, a reveal
that they've already done that.

49
00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:29,350
We've already accomplished this moment.

50
00:03:29,350 --> 00:03:34,040
And it gives Joel this really wonderfully
dad-like tease with her."

51
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,041
Mark: "Then we get to this fun reversal where
Ellie pushes Joel in the water."

52
00:03:39,041 --> 00:03:40,780
Evan: "I think for a while it wasn't even
a reversal.

53
00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:44,030
She was like hop in, all these other things.

54
00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:48,400
For a while after that it was also just going
to be a cutscene and I actually had to personally

55
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,600
harass Neil a little bit to be like 'can we
keep the button in?'

56
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:57,810
I think it adds a lot of value just being
able to be the motivator for this small turnaround.

57
00:03:57,810 --> 00:03:58,810
Really adds a lot."

58
00:03:58,810 --> 00:04:03,100
Mark: "One of the things Naughty Dog is known
for is guiding the player with things like

59
00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:05,850
weenies, and colour, and lighting.

60
00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:10,020
Are you still using those techniques on a
more exploratory level like this one?"

61
00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:13,850
Evan: "The whole bucket is still getting thrown
at everything all the time.

62
00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:18,190
I think the biggest one that's most prominent
obviously is Joel leading you through the

63
00:04:18,190 --> 00:04:24,100
initial section of the level so he's just
this constant sign, basically: 'go here!

64
00:04:24,100 --> 00:04:25,200
Follow me!'

65
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,250
But then we flip it, like right here, where
he actually stops and lets you push forward

66
00:04:30,250 --> 00:04:33,110
into the brush, you start looking towards
the light.

67
00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:37,880
Because he's now, at this point in the narrative,
just going 'okay, I'm going to let her wander

68
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:38,880
into this.

69
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,110
I'm going to stop leading.' 
He even shuts up and she's like 'what is it?'

70
00:04:42,110 --> 00:04:44,900
Ellie: "Oh my god! It is a dinosaur!"

71
00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:49,260
Evan: "Like here, even on the dinosaur, we
try to use ivy and colour.

72
00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:53,760
You look at the tail and it's a brighter hue
just to try and draw your eye and give you

73
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,840
a sense of 'hey, this is secretly climbable.

74
00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:57,530
Hey, you can do this.'

75
00:04:57,530 --> 00:05:02,840
And again Joel is leading you around this
so we're always at least hinting at the possibilities

76
00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:04,280
rather than leading you directly."

77
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:08,560
Mark: "Climbing the dinosaur is definitely
one of these fantastic moments in the level.

78
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:09,970
How do these moment come about?"

79
00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:13,620
Evan: "Basically a lot of this came out in
the walkthroughs.

80
00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:20,530
So I would do a layout and then we'd actually
sit down with Neil and play it through, on

81
00:05:20,530 --> 00:05:23,150
the stick, and improv the characters.

82
00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:29,360
And actually from that improv, a lot of the
memorable moments evolved by themselves.

83
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,420
I had a really dirty version of the dinosaur
- I mean really awful - even just seeing that,

84
00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:36,690
Neil's first question when he looked at it
was 'can I climb it?'

85
00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:40,120
And so we were like 'yeah! 
Yeah, okay let's do that. Let's…"

86
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,560
Ellie: *Yells*

87
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,250
Mark: "When the player tries something like
climbing the dinosaur, there's usually a funny

88
00:05:46,250 --> 00:05:49,270
or cute voice line in response.

89
00:05:49,270 --> 00:05:52,480
So what comes first, the dialogue or the level
design?"

90
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:58,080
Evan: "A lot of these wonderful lines were
actually done kind of later in the process

91
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,690
where Halley and Neil would come through,
work with us on the level and scripting team,

92
00:06:02,690 --> 00:06:05,070
and figure out what would sell the moment
best.

93
00:06:05,070 --> 00:06:10,480
And I think that's why everything feels so
interlaced and grounded is because a lot of

94
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,610
the dialogue is actually written in reaction
to the art.

95
00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:18,060
The level designers will make something for
navigation or some other purpose, and then

96
00:06:18,060 --> 00:06:24,050
the writers go in and fill out naturally with
how the character's voice would describe that.

97
00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:28,110
Mark: "So tell me a bit about this introductory
area in the museum."

98
00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:33,440
Evan: "So for this part we wanted to give
a bit more of a neutral opening.

99
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,240
So this is one of those examples of where
we actually turn down a lot of those navigational

100
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:39,740
techniques a little bit.

101
00:06:39,740 --> 00:06:44,000
So that you don't feel like you're being rail-roaded
or there's some kind of golden path.

102
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,870
But instead you're engaging with the space
directly.

103
00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:50,930
You're the one actively trying to piece together
and figure out what the space is."

104
00:06:50,930 --> 00:06:55,290
Mark: "So there's lots of things we can interact
with in this part of the museum, but many

105
00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:57,120
of the interactions are really short.

106
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,780
Was that intentional?"

107
00:06:58,780 --> 00:06:59,889
Evan: "Exactly.

108
00:06:59,889 --> 00:07:06,139
Because we're letting the player drive the
pacing of this sequence, we wanted to keep

109
00:07:06,139 --> 00:07:10,419
each individual chunk as small and
responsive as possible.

110
00:07:10,419 --> 00:07:16,510
So they're quippy, they're punchy, and it
just gives you this you sense of 'well, if

111
00:07:16,510 --> 00:07:18,000
you want more you can turn another page.

112
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,350
So I think the early area definitely primes
you and it's like 'every little thing will

113
00:07:22,350 --> 00:07:24,750
be worth fiddling, or touching if you want
to."

114
00:07:24,750 --> 00:07:30,590
Mark: "There's a nice example here of using
the wall to reveal the upcoming dinosaurs.

115
00:07:30,590 --> 00:07:31,990
How do you create things like that?"

116
00:07:31,990 --> 00:07:36,840
Evan: "The main thing is we look at is, like
you said, just trying to create interesting

117
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,919
camera movements with the level geometry.

118
00:07:38,919 --> 00:07:44,190
So always ensuring that occluders, like you
saw with the wall there, is sliding off and

119
00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:48,470
that's the thing that starts revealing all
these interesting things rather than all there

120
00:07:48,470 --> 00:07:50,820
on display at one moment.

121
00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:53,900
The way we refine these things varies.

122
00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:57,051
So for the T-rex, for example, there were
some instances where you'd be able to see

123
00:07:57,051 --> 00:07:59,810
the T-rex a little too early, or a little
too soon.

124
00:07:59,810 --> 00:08:05,340
So trying to actually sculpt the doorway with
the foliage so that when Ellie sees it and

125
00:08:05,340 --> 00:08:06,810
reacts is when you see it and react."

126
00:08:06,810 --> 00:08:10,130
Mark: "There's a lot of stuff in this level
that player can interact with but they can

127
00:08:10,130 --> 00:08:14,490
also skip a whole bunch of it - how do you
feel about players not seeing some of the

128
00:08:14,490 --> 00:08:15,490
content that you made?"

129
00:08:15,490 --> 00:08:21,650
Evan: "The main thing we were focusing on
was this sense of confidence that it's okay

130
00:08:21,650 --> 00:08:26,080
if there isn't this perfect, singular experience
of this level.

131
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,300
A big part of it is this sense of freedom
and this sense that you're the one driving

132
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:31,300
this forward.

133
00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:35,430
And sometimes the result of that is just letting
you be able to miss things.

134
00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:38,850
Letting you not see every nook and cranny.

135
00:08:38,850 --> 00:08:47,500
Because the main thing was if you force everyone
to do everything, for some people it would drag.

136
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:52,520
You want to be able to let the player go through
as quickly or slowly as possible.

137
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,130
And for the people who just want to run through,
asking them to sit there and go through all

138
00:08:57,130 --> 00:09:01,050
these little cute things would have absolutely
infuriated them."

139
00:09:01,050 --> 00:09:05,520
Mark: "As we move into this second part of
the museum which is the space area, I was

140
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,540
curious how much are you thinking ahead when
you're doing the blockmesh, versus just putting

141
00:09:10,540 --> 00:09:12,960
down [nondescript], random blobs?"

142
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,740
Evan: "For this level it was a good, healthy
mix of just putting blobs in it.

143
00:09:17,740 --> 00:09:23,060
The early blockmesh really was just trying
to figure out the density of the space.

144
00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:25,170
So we'd riff with Neil more.

145
00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:30,710
I just had this default, literal blob thing
where I'd put this like 'ok cool, here's a

146
00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:33,250
point of interest, here's a point of interest,
here's a point of interest.

147
00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:35,089
And from there we just kept iterating.

148
00:09:35,089 --> 00:09:38,510
This space area had, I think, three or four
full revisions.

149
00:09:38,510 --> 00:09:45,020
After we got the pacing down, I think it was
really the art team who kept coming up with

150
00:09:45,020 --> 00:09:49,000
really interesting ideas and then we came
up with this final version."

151
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,640
Mark: "I just noticed as I got off the Lunar
Rover there, the camera swung around really

152
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,779
nicely to frame the capsule.

153
00:09:56,779 --> 00:10:00,420
Is that a case of leading the player to the
next part of the level?"

154
00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:01,420
Evan: "Absolutely.

155
00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:04,860
It's just finding little opportunities like
that, any time you place something down in

156
00:10:04,860 --> 00:10:09,540
the level, where it's like 'alright, how do
I get them to think about the next thing?

157
00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:13,390
How do I get them to… frame or otherwise
reference it'.

158
00:10:13,390 --> 00:10:19,430
Sometimes it's in the writing, sometimes it's
in the camera controls, but overall by this

159
00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:24,520
point, thankfully, a lot of players are just
bought in to how this space works.

160
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:25,520
They're just like 'oh, hey, cool'."

161
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:31,100
Mark: "So the space capsule is obviously this
huge, important part of the museum: how did

162
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:32,100
that come about?"

163
00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:36,620
Evan: "Actually the sequence, in its very
very early stages, was going to end here.

164
00:10:36,620 --> 00:10:41,280
It was just going to have Firefly graffiti,
and it was going to be the big punch and that's it.

165
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,900
But as we kept digging in to the minds of
the characters in the pitches with Neil and

166
00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:48,589
the other writers, we just kept wanting to
deliver more.

167
00:10:48,589 --> 00:10:55,220
We kept wanting to fully articulate this moment
in Ellie's life where she's actually feeling

168
00:10:55,220 --> 00:10:57,570
herself, feeling unburdened and unhindered.

169
00:10:57,570 --> 00:11:01,800
From there I actually then started revising
the level as is to lead up to this moment.

170
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,160
To give it more space to breathe.

171
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,630
Before the dinosaur was the high point.

172
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:10,500
But now with this it's just a part of the
build towards this sequence."

173
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,860
Mark: "And then with this as the high point,
we drop down to a very different tone for

174
00:11:14,860 --> 00:11:20,360
the next section which is dark and spooky,
and has the confrontation in the relationship.

175
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,620
It's almost like the level is built on a three
act arc."

176
00:11:23,620 --> 00:11:24,760
Evan: "Exactly, exactly.

177
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,910
It's like 'okay, cool, now that we know we
want to deliver this moment, how do we pace

178
00:11:28,910 --> 00:11:29,910
it out?

179
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:31,670
How do we build up the structure properly?

180
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:36,300
And now that we have this extreme high note,
what do we do to counteract it.

181
00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:39,390
How do we develop it… what's the third act
after this?'"

182
00:11:39,390 --> 00:11:45,310
Mark: "Before we get to that though, we have
to jump off of this cafe and down in the water.

183
00:11:45,310 --> 00:11:51,140
Is that a loading gate where you're unloading
previous parts of the level to free up memory?

184
00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:52,320
How does that work?"

185
00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:53,760
Evan: "We definitely have loading gates.

186
00:11:53,779 --> 00:11:57,580
It's just that there was never a point where
we looked at the budget and said 'we ran out

187
00:11:57,580 --> 00:12:00,430
of memory here so we need to put this in now'.

188
00:12:00,430 --> 00:12:04,101
Instead it's more this natural assumption
that we're going to want to give them a break,

189
00:12:04,101 --> 00:12:07,660
we're going to want to give us some load time,
some load pacing.

190
00:12:07,660 --> 00:12:09,839
And so let's find out where that will fit
narratively.

191
00:12:09,839 --> 00:12:14,279
So after the capsule, we can take that down
beat.

192
00:12:14,279 --> 00:12:15,440
So let's make it a traversal beat.

193
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,339
That lets us unload and these other things,
so the next thing that we do narratively can

194
00:12:19,339 --> 00:12:20,810
have the full bandwidth to do what it wants."

195
00:12:20,810 --> 00:12:26,210
Mark: "So Ellie and Joel have now split up
and the level takes on a very different tone.

196
00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:28,460
Could you talk to me about this part of the
level?"

197
00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:33,530
Evan: "I think we just wanted emotional variety,
was the initial impetus.

198
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:41,000
And then we also wanted to… as we kept exploring
it deeper, we wanted it to lead into the conflicts

199
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,780
in the relationship that have been peppered
throughout the game so far.

200
00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:48,040
They had this amazing, wonderful experience.

201
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,070
Everything up until this point was the perfect
version of the relationship.

202
00:12:52,070 --> 00:12:55,149
And then okay, there's a dark side to this
museum.

203
00:12:55,149 --> 00:12:58,930
There's a dark side to Ellie and Joel's relationship.

204
00:12:58,930 --> 00:12:59,930
There's an undercurrent there.

205
00:12:59,930 --> 00:13:03,520
There's something that's still gnawing at
them.

206
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:04,540
And right now it's vague.

207
00:13:04,540 --> 00:13:07,240
There's just this ominous graffiti.

208
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,080
There's somebody who's very regretful of the
decisions they've made in life.

209
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,470
The violence they've enacted.

210
00:13:13,470 --> 00:13:17,610
The emotional weight of the actions I've been
doing up until this point kind of got to somebody."

211
00:13:17,610 --> 00:13:22,640
Mark: "And the feeling of unease is emphasised
by the fact that it feels like there's going

212
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,300
to be a fight here, but there's actually no
enemies whatsoever."

213
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:31,740
Evan: "Just to even signal that it's a possibility
is enough to get people to tense up.

214
00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:36,760
We're giving fake pick-ups, but there's no
combat in here.

215
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:42,980
The fact that everything in here is to combat
metrics, quiet: this whole sequence is there,

216
00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:47,029
as I was talking about, to explore and set-up
that tension that this relationship between

217
00:13:47,029 --> 00:13:52,000
Ellie and Joel has conflicts and defects that
will can't be ignored.

218
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,060
That will run you over.

219
00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:56,420
This helps us tie the good to the bad."

220
00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:57,720
Ellie: "I'm in here".

221
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,630
Mark: "This level obviously fits in between
two other levels - one before and one after.

222
00:14:03,630 --> 00:14:07,089
How do you maintain a consistent flow across
the whole game?"

223
00:14:07,089 --> 00:14:12,180
Evan: "So it's just a matter of knowing who's
in charge of each section.

224
00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:16,260
Always keeping abreast of what their needs
and goals were.

225
00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:20,630
To start out it was really just knowing that
this underground subway thing… this is going

226
00:14:20,630 --> 00:14:23,610
to be really, really, really intense.

227
00:14:23,610 --> 00:14:26,680
We're going to make this a big contrast point
for this part of the game.

228
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,480
Same with the sequence after where it's knowing
that we're going into the sequence of rescuing Jesse.

229
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,190
We're introducing dogs for the first time,
and all these other elements!

230
00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:39,959
So that's when we started tooling with the
boar jump scare, to re-tune the player to

231
00:14:39,959 --> 00:14:42,800
say 'we're going back now.

232
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,800
Fun times are over.

233
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,470
This is now going to get back to serious territory. 
Brace yourself."

234
00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:53,130
Mark: "So if it's even possible to quantify,
how long do you think this level took to make?"

235
00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:55,850
Evan: "Pretty much two solid years."

236
00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:58,440
Mark: "Really?" 
Evan: "Really.

237
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:04,090
The big secret for all of Naughty Dog level
design is just iteration and work.

238
00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:07,630
We have a lot of fundamentals, but there are
some sequences in this game that were re-done

239
00:15:07,630 --> 00:15:09,480
like 25 times.

240
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:16,590
And the big secret for this level of quality
is just that dedication, that level of work,

241
00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:21,899
that we'll be willing to do to scrap something
that doesn't work and re-do it.

242
00:15:21,899 --> 00:15:27,630
To get this to this final version was two
solid years, and my responsibility shifted

243
00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:29,640
pretty dramatically over that time.

244
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,260
So initially it's just the block-out, it's
just the layout.

245
00:15:33,260 --> 00:15:34,360
Working with the narrative design.

246
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,550
Then as things get more and more concrete,
my role shifts more and more into being producer."

247
00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:44,221
(Return to narration): And that's the thing,
while Evan was the level designer, working

248
00:15:44,221 --> 00:15:48,170
under direction from the game's directors
and lead designers - there was a whole team

249
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:50,870
of people working with him on this area.

250
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:56,459
Evan's simple blockmesh was turned into fabulous
3D models by David Baldwin and Sarah Swenson,

251
00:15:56,459 --> 00:16:00,610
which were then textured by Brian Beppu, and
lit by Scott Greenway - and that's all going

252
00:16:00,610 --> 00:16:02,970
off ideas from concept artists.

253
00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:07,029
There were also people involved in adding
effects, creating Ellie's animations, and

254
00:16:07,029 --> 00:16:08,630
scripting Joel's movements.

255
00:16:08,630 --> 00:16:13,110
And even more people were responsible for
producing the level's cinematic moments.

256
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:19,840
But what's bonkers is that each person may
only work on a handful of areas in this massive game.

257
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,880
For example, Evan made the museum, Ellie's
second flashback, the section at the winter

258
00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:27,200
lodge, and a part with Abby and Owen.

259
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,310
And that's it - other designers were able to focus
of the game's many other areas.

260
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:37,910
Which all makes it a bit tricky for me to
glamorise a The Last of Us level on this channel.

261
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:43,060
This sort of intricately hand-crafted process
is just not financially feasible for many

262
00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:47,399
companies, outside of a rarified few like
Rockstar and Naughty Dog.

263
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,500
And judging by insider reports, it might not
even have been particularly feasible for

264
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:53,180
Naughty Dog, itself.

265
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:55,190
Or Rockstar, for that matter.

266
00:16:55,190 --> 00:17:00,709
So as amazing as the final product is, it
must come with the caveat that a lot of studios

267
00:17:00,709 --> 00:17:06,079
simply don't have the resources to produce
something like this… in a 30 hour game…

268
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,220
filled with levels made to an equally high
level of quality.

269
00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:14,440
With that being said, the museum is packed
with level design lessons that are applicable

270
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,340
to games of any scale.

271
00:17:16,340 --> 00:17:20,579
Improv-ing as the characters to find moments
that fit their personality.

272
00:17:20,579 --> 00:17:23,640
Having the confidence to let players miss
things.

273
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,580
Using art and geometry to guide the player's
eye and frame the best moments.

274
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:34,260
And having the feel of the level mimic the
emotional journey of the character's relationship.

275
00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:39,120
Amazing stuff, all the way through - no wonder
it's one of the best levels in the whole game.

276
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,280
Thanks for watching!

277
00:17:43,289 --> 00:17:45,759
I want to give a huge thank you to Evan for
talking to me.

278
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:51,820
As always, the full, hour-long conversation
is available to GMTK Patrons on the $5 tier.

279
00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:56,120
Also, thanks go to the level's environment
artist Sarah who also chatted to me to help

280
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,039
fill in some extra details.

281
00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:02,830
In case it needs to be said: this video is
not in any way sponsored by PlayStation or

282
00:18:02,830 --> 00:18:03,830
Naughty Dog.

283
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:08,211
I know this sort of insider access can sometimes
be misconstrued as marketing for the game

284
00:18:08,211 --> 00:18:09,720
- but that's not the case.

285
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,840
I'm just a fan.

286
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,539
Cheers to all GMTK Patrons for funding this
sort of content! You're amazing.